Jeremy Stephens and Joe Rogan debate USADA’s anti-doping impact on UFC fighters, with Stephens praising natural movement efficiency over steroid-driven dominance. Stephens reveals his 32-pound weight-cut protocol using FitnessVT.com—gradual fat loss via cardio—while Rogan questions alkaline water science. They critique religious distortions, like misinterpreted scriptures fueling hate, and discuss Stephens’ readiness for Aldo or McGregor despite division chaos. Ends with Rogan’s fan support and a tease for Fight for the Forgotten with Justin Wren. [Automatically generated summary]
You're coming off of a fucking gigantic victory, man, over Hennon Burau, who was, just a little while ago, consensus top three pound-for-pound fighter in the world, man.
For people who don't know what we're talking about, USADA, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, was hired by the UFC to clean up the sport, and goddamn bodies are dropping.
You know, he doesn't know what they're doing today.
But I'm like, well, how are they doing it today if they're still breaking records?
He's like...
We'll find out one day.
We'll find out eventually.
You know, one day they're gonna figure out what the fuck these people are doing.
But Nowitzki was explaining all the weird little loopholes that people are finding, like testosterone supplementation that comes from animals instead of from wild yams.
No, I've heard of people doing stuff like that, but, I mean, that just seems insane.
I mean, last time we were on the show, you were talking about how somebody was pulling out their blood and refrigerating it, and it was that doping, basically, like EPO. Well, that is still going on.
And apparently, the way they're supposed to be able to test that, like, you're not supposed to use an IV, right?
And the reason why you're not supposed to use an IV is that somehow or another, through intravenous fluids, you can mask the effects of doping.
So they also have been able to detect minuscule plastic particles from the tubes that they use to put IV fluids back in your body.
They've been able to detect those, apparently, but no one's ever been caught for that.
So that's what they would do.
They would either use blood, that's your own blood, or in Lance Armstrong's case, a lot of the people were taking EPO, which makes your body produce more blood.
But I think guys to this day are probably still putting blood back into their body.
I mean, I... The level playing field, people are getting knocked out, you know, their bodies are changing, and they're seeing that their fight styles, guys are going undefeated, and just all these rampages, you're like, man, he must be in great shape, he's just killing it in the fifth round, and now he can't get past round one, two, you know, and you're just like, wow.
You look at a guy like Mighty Mouse, where he fought Bogutinov.
And Bagutinov, he out-cardioed the guy, beat his ass, especially going into the stretch, was just completely outworking him.
And at the end of the fight, Bagutinov pops hot for EPO. Yep.
So even though this guy was on drugs, Mighty Mouse's technique and cardio and just his ability to understand how to pace himself through a five-round fight.
I know you've been a big fan of him, and I've always enjoyed watching that guy.
I mean, I can't fight like that guy, but to watch some of his techniques and the way he uses angles and footwork and how he lures you in in his clinch game is nasty.
Some people are blessed with a better integrated in their body, such as a neutral spine.
A lot of people have lumbar problems and neutral spine.
You ever watch Mayweather?
You don't ever see him leaning.
He's just always in constantly good posture and good position.
And just like in wrestling, if you're in good position, more than likely you're going to win the fight.
Mighty Mouse, he just has that type of movement and integrates his whole body, where his body moves as one.
It doesn't work against him.
There's not a lot of rattle in his body.
Say if he throws a kick, He doesn't land awkward.
He goes right back to a neutral base and he's able to laterally move and constantly have his body working for him.
So I think him naturally, he just has that type of gifts and benefits of his body.
He's able to integrate his body to work as one.
Therefore, you don't waste a lot of energy.
He has really fluid movement.
Look at a guy like Anderson Silva.
He's able to beat people just by keeping his range and just his movement of his body.
He doesn't swing like a Mark Hunt or me where I'll throw a lot of powers.
Normally, I miss.
I'm just trying to reach him, but them guys, they just use fluid movement.
I think some people are just blessed to have that integrated in their body, in a good neutral spine, in a good solid base.
And that's why they're able to connect on their shots a lot more, as can be disconnected.
Say like a short circuit, if there's like a small little detail, like this cord right here, say it's like broken, and you're not getting the full amount of energy, as where if you have a solid base and a good spine, you know how to integrate your body to use as one, there's going to be a lot more of a sturdier connection and more flow and fluid movement.
I'm glad you brought that up, because I've always thought that about efficiency, that efficiency is very important, and there are fighters that you see wasted movement or a lot of slop into the way they execute techniques, and even if they have power, sometimes they're so awkward with the way they do it that you've got to think that there's a lot of waste as far as the energy expenditure.
You said blessed, so you think that that's a natural ability?
I think some of it occurs that some people are able to integrate their body.
If you ever just look up people's postures, some people just kind of, they'll slouch, they'll kind of bend over, and it's posture, and this thing's kind of actually...
And, you know, like you said, it's a lot of wasted movement as some people are just more integrated with their body, so they are a lot more efficient.
You know, granted, then you've got to have the skills, the cardio and everything else, but I feel like if you have a good base and plus the fight skills, I feel like you're going to be a lot more efficient and probably have longevity in your career as well with injuries and stuff.
Like, I've always wondered, like, there's some children that start off doing, like, gymnastics, or, like, there's been a lot of guys in jiu-jitsu that have gotten into it that come from breakdancing, which is kind of interesting.
These are real recent.
We've seen a lot of guys.
But that ability to move your body, like, at a young age, you develop, like, a real sense of...
I want to add just coordination, you know, just dexterity, so many different attributes that you develop when you're young and then your body grows into it.
You know, once you feel it, like I work with a movement guy, Functional Patterns, for a long time.
I learned how to integrate my body.
And to not waste movement and, you know, to activate my core, my glutes, my groin, all the way to, like, my feet being on my two toes.
If you ever notice, people walk, like, duck-footed and stuff like that.
It's, like, all problems in their hips.
That's why you see, like, a lot of – so you have, like, foam rollers and stuff.
People roll out.
But, you know, once you release myofascial, there's corrective exercises you can do to kind of reprogram your mind that you've been working on such a dysfunction you may not even know it.
And there's ways, too, that you can integrate your body and neurologically reprogram your mind of, like, you know, this is how I should be walking.
This is how I should be integrating my body.
And this helps out with posture and breathing.
You know, the Iceman Huff, like, says a lot of stuff about this.
And it's real interesting facts to know because this is for everybody.
People work down at a desk, slouching over, typing all the time.
Got tight hip flexors.
They're leaning, poor diet.
You know, it, like...
This goes to anybody, you know, to learn how to integrate your body, power of posture.
And this guy, Nadia Aguilar from Functional Patterns, really, he taught me a lot about this and movement and integrating your body.
There's a lot of people that get involved with movement coaches, and some people mock it, and some people say, well, you should just be spending that time working on your fight training and your abilities, your skill set, and then just do cardio and explosive exercises.
And then some people say, no, that's good too, but the ability to move efficiently in odd ways and carry your balance.
Now, your guy, you said it's functional patterns, that's what they call it?
He doesn't understand the integration part, as where Nadia Aguilar with Functional Patterns, he teaches you how to kind of just sit still, integrate your body, and just hold these positions where I'm just standing still or on my toes without...
A lumbar extension or if I'm slouching, he keeps a neutral spine throughout his whole movement.
So he's using his body as one and he has a little bit more of an integrated system as compared to just no one who knows even how to have a base and you just go into this movement and you're doing it all wrong while you're having lumbar or you're slouching.
He believes in integrating that technique so your body works, like you said, more efficiently instead of working against you.
You can watch his posture or watch his knee if his knee goes over his toe in like a certain movement or he has like a lumbar in his spine as compared if you watch like a Nadia Aguilar, he'll teach you how to do that same type of movement.
But you'll see the little minor details and little millimeters of a difference that makes you integrate your body so that your glutes are working with your core.
As you walk in, everybody just does these deadlifts and it's not like a good rotation.
As humans, we rotate, we walk.
In fighting, we move.
And he integrates everything as far as your core to your growing to being on your power two toes.
Yep, and you know how you have like arches on your feet and you're kind of walking like, look at my hands, and you're walking like that on the outside?
So then if I'm walking on the outside, my knees like this, say this is good.
So now I'm integrating everything up to my groin, my glute activated, but if I'm walking on the outside, your knee's gonna, your outer part of your knee's gonna be taking more of the load and the damage.
You know, then you're not integrating, you're growing, and that's how people end up actually...
So what we're looking at, folks, for the folks that are just listening, is this guy doing all these crazy movements with kettlebells and dumbbells and jumping around back and forth and doing all these flips through the air right now.
And I've watched Idol, I think that's his name, and there's just these little details that he doesn't have that he has and that he integrates.
Where his knees don't sway out.
Everything is seriously in a functional pattern.
He doesn't muscle anything to where you're lifting.
Everything is a fluid movement.
He's allowing the swing, almost like a cheat, to allow your body to rotate.
It's It's really changed my life working with this guy and the things that I've learned and the deficiencies in my body that I really wasn't aware of back then that I'm working with now.
I've been fighting for a long time and I've been able to keep healthy and injury free by doing a lot of these movements, myofascial release and working on my posture, breathing.
People who are doing sprints at night, your nervous system is still in a flight or flight mode and you can't fall asleep.
There's such things as breathing to help that out.
You've been here with Iceman Huff and hear his stuff.
As where you're able, if you're able to breathe, calm yourself down, you get better sleep, better rest recovery, and the hormones are going to take over your body and repair it.
Yeah, I don't go around doing touch-butt shit in fights.
I mean, I stick to what I know, but it is good to learn how to use pain management to stay healthy, myofascial release, and integrate your body so that you are working efficiently and you're not working against yourself.
I mean, it's awesome to go through these workouts that I do now.
I mean, I have a different strength conditioning coach, and we stick to a lot of these functional movements, athletic movements, explosive movements, and we do it with a good integrated system to where You know, if I go and I'm banging on this tire and I'm just recklessly, and then I wake up in the morning, I'm like, fuck, man, I gotta spar.
I'm feeling like crap.
I mean, it's good to have your body working efficiently, using the right things that need to be used instead of having all the small muscle groups working.
I think it might have been the underground where someone was talking about lifting weights and how all their bad sparring sessions come after lifting weights.
Like, yeah, duh.
Like, you probably shouldn't be sparring after you lift up.
Like, dudes are talking about doing, like, mega squats and deadlifts and power benching and then trying to stay loose and fluid.
It's not going to happen.
Your tissue's all broken down, and you're exhausted, and it's really a bad idea to spar when you're like that, because then, you know, well, what about mental toughness?
Well, you're not going to learn.
Your body's all fucked up.
You're supposed to be resting.
Or if you're doing anything, you should be doing, like, light drilling.
But something where you're forced to react quickly and move, that's a good way to get injured, right?
Getting injured all the time and you know just being self-sufficient learning about little stuff like this could could help you out you know such as things as just a little bit of foam rolling out and then a little bit of correctional exercises that could just help you out a lot more efficiently and there's no I mean I've gotten in arguments where I've went out to Arizona to see some of my friends that ended up leaving Alliance and you know I got into an argument a little bit like a battle this guy's like trying to tell me to I need to widen my base to do this and I'm like we're in a fight that I'm gonna be you know Ten feet,
my feet are this far apart.
I'm like, no, bro.
I got to be within...
I can be able to rotate, move.
If I'm spreading my legs out, that ain't doing nothing for me.
I see a lot of people doing a lot of meathead stuff.
Well, Ronda Rousey fought the perfect fight for Holly.
Like, charging at her, and Holly's a great counter-striker.
Whereas Shevchenko, if you watch that fight, she did not lead at all.
She just hung back and waited and forced Holly into her game.
And, you know, it was just a bad night for Holly.
I'm sure she'll be back, but...
It's interesting tactically, and if you look at it from a strategic standpoint, like utilizing your skills to the best of your ability, when you're inside the octagon, figuring out what about what you do matches really good against what she does.
I mean, the last time he fought was like a year ago, and he was fighting at 170. Yeah.
And now, I mean, obviously a lot of guys that fight 170, they really weigh the 190s, somewhere around there, and then they cut weight to get down to 170, but that is just gigantic.
Yeah, well it's definitely bullshit when people tap, right?
It is definitely bullshit when people tap.
Do you think there's anything that should be changed about the current rules?
Like if you look at MMA rules, like the way they stand right now, like there's some people that think that the knees on the ground issue, if you don't know the story, MMA has a rule where you can knee someone to the head if they're standing, but if they put one hand on the ground, you can't knee them in the head.
So a lot of guys will put a hand on the ground just to stop the knee, and then they'll lift it up, and then they'll put it down.
They play almost like a game of like, now I'm safe.
Remember old-school wrestling?
You could hold onto the rope, and they would let go of a hold.
Well, he was a point karate guy for a long time, and I've always said that there's something about that ability to just jump in real quick and get the fuck out of there.
I think he's only like 25 or 26. And super technical.
Like his karate especially.
Like he's got that wide stance, moves in and out real quick.
That's what's real hard to deal with, man.
Because the karate style, like where they jump in and they're used to like leaping in and then they tag each other and get the fuck out of there quick.
And then they score a point and then everything stops.
And so they don't have to have like...
In their sport, they didn't have to have the kind of endurance that you would need to do.
Try doing that in a tie fight.
The ties are going to kick your legs.
But the thing about it is that these guys have developed this incredible ability to close distance really quickly.
Then they pick up all the other skills as well.
But everybody else has to play catch up on that one thing that they can do.
The leaping in and close the distance.
And you get a guy like Paige, who's obviously a gifted athlete, who's been doing it his whole life.
I mean, he started martial arts, I think, before he was five years old.
So he's got years and years of experience, plus his body kind of developed, like we were talking about people that start early with gymnastics or with breakdancing.
His body developed, leaping in, throwing kicks, leaping in, throwing punches.
Yeah, I mean, part of me likes the fact that he's in Bellator, because I think Bellator needs stars, because I think UFC needs competition, and I like Scott Coker, I like Bellator, I like Jimmy Smith, I like the fact they're doing well, and I would like to see a real legitimate unification fight, you know?
You got a lot of fans supporting you, dude, but you probably want to start enjoying life a little bit and cutting down eventually, and just relaxing and enjoying life a little bit, I bet, huh?
Yeah, I feel like someone should have talked to Mark immediately and soothed it out with him.
But here's what I can tell Mark, if Mark is listening.
They tested the shit out of Brock Lesnar, and they didn't know.
They didn't know.
The only way they would have known is if USADA told them.
So USADA tested him, he tested clean for a bunch of them, and then he tested...
I'm positive for the one that was like, I think three weeks out of the fight.
And then there was the other one that he tested for post-fight.
So I don't know what was going on.
I mean, it's just speculation.
But it could have been that he was just really struggling in camp.
Look, here's what he took, allegedly, right?
He took estrogen blockers, and the only reason that anybody takes estrogen blocker on purpose is to restart their testosterone after they do a steroid cycle.
That's why you take it when you take it on purpose.
Or unless you have some sort of a biological disorder, I would imagine, where you have some sort of an excess of estrogen in your body, which I don't know why you would have that.
I'm not a doctor.
I don't know if I need to tell you that, but I'm not a doctor.
And the high-level people in MMA make the same amount of money.
The real argument is, how much money should the people that are putting on the big shows like you, the guys who are putting on fucking incredible, exciting fights, how much should you make to headline a card?
I know, for me, personally, for my money, if I'm watching Jeremy Stevens fight Conor McGregor, I'm getting out my fucking popcorn.
A lot of people don't realize when they see the sport now and it's gigantic and it's huge, when you were first fighting and first competing, man, you had to really love what you're doing.
It wasn't like there was some Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor paydays that people were getting.
You know, when you hear about the paydays these people are getting now, like John Jones' manager was saying that John missed out on at least $10 million for his fight with Daniel Cormier.
And then John Anik was saying that over the two years, it's probably going to cost him as much as $30 to $40 million.
And you factor in all the super fights he could have had in two years.
I don't get why people want to go ride a bike for that long.
I mean, honestly, you know, since you saw this kind of came in, I've done a lot of cardio and stuff, but I'm like, you know, I've ran up to like a little bit over two hours or around two hours.
And, you know, I don't want to go ride a bike for fucking seven, eight hours.
Dude, they get violent and they get into, like, wolf packs quick.
Really?
Yeah, I did security one time, man, and I seen like two dudes fighting, and then it turned into the whole Asian community just throwing bottles, shooting out in the parking lot, you know, just throwing cue balls, chairs, more bottles, and this guy's just laying down in like fetus position.
I've seen them just do a lot.
I mean, they stick together.
I've seen a guy actually stab some dude.
And then, get this, this guy comes out and he's like, He's like, I just got stabbed.
And he's coming up to this police officer.
Police officer pulls out this gun.
He's like, get on the ground.
He's like, bro, I just got stabbed.
He's like, get on the ground.
And the guy's like squirting blood out his back.
And then like, like 50 Honda Civics and Acura's like, just all taken off.
Well, did you see the guy in Florida that got shot while he was lying down with his hands up, talking to...
He was a therapist, and he's totally unarmed, lying on his back, and the cop shot him.
I did see that.
And he's like, why'd you shoot me?
He's like, I don't know.
And then the cop changed his story.
The cop completely changed his story after it was over.
You know, look, there's good and bad, but I didn't see the full video of this, I only saw the end.
Which really makes you think, like when you see a lot of these interactions that people have with cops, like what led the cop to be so fucking ramped up?
Well here, now you understand, that guy was risking all sorts of people's lives by riding that motorcycle like a fucking maniac, and then the cop got ahold of him, he bumped him to knock him off the bike, but that kid was fine.
But that kid got $180,000 for that.
Breaking the law, he gets $180,000 for a weak-ass bitch front kick.
I was driving down here from San Diego, and I mean, I do that all the time, and those bikers, man, they zone in and out, and I don't hear them coming behind me, because they're flying, and I'm in between traffic, and they...
Come by and almost scrape your mirrors, and then they're getting mad at you, and you're like, bro, I don't see you.
I got a little bit of music playing.
It's not real loud, but I can't hear you until you're right there.
I saw a bumper sticker that said, loud pipes save lives.
They really do.
It makes a big difference.
Makes sense that they have those those loud pipes like that, but you know I think that cops are just like you and me and one of the things that I think we should all take into consideration is the amount of people that they deal with on a daily basis that are Criminals that are violent that are dangerous that there's just so much shit they have to deal with I just don't think most people are qualified for that job.
I think that job should be for people that are like Ex-military that are solid as a fucking rock.
I think it should be super high-paying and should be a really well-respected job.
And I think those people should be like integrated in whatever community they're enforcing.
Yeah, you know, I was actually telling this, I don't even know if I told my coach today, but I was thinking, I was like, man, I want to go and like help out the cops and a little bit of like combat and go in and help them out because...
I mean, a lot of people don't know.
I mean, if you come up to me and I'm not thinking anything, but I can just quickly pull out a gun and shoot you.
And sometimes those cops don't know, you know, and they're trying to be nice and then they get killed on the spot or, you know, they may not know and they kill them and maybe it wasn't a gun.
But, I mean, that's a quick little within...
You have to make a huge decision in just such a matter of seconds.
It should be mandatory the cops have at least some sort of martial arts training because you know I was talking to big John McCarthy about this where he was telling me How few police officers can even physically defend themselves?
He's like there's a lot of guys that just don't they don't know anything and they don't work out at all overweight Yeah, and if shit goes down like they're helpless And these are supposed to be the people that are supposed to serve and protect.
You know, John obviously is a giant dude and plus a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and been around martial arts his whole life.
But, you know, when you're dealing with someone who is an explosive, dangerous person that might be a felon their whole life, and you're someone who has no experience at all in any kind of hand-to-hand combat situation, you're in a bad spot.
You know, a lot of them don't know, and I've even been in, like, training with, like, the Army and military and Wounded Warriors.
I mean, I've trained a lot of people, and a lot of people don't even know the basics of just hand fighting and how hand fighting is very important, especially if someone's holding a gun.
You know, they don't even know that or know chokes, and it's like, wow, that's crazy.
Well, that guy was crazy, because he was super skilled, but a fucking legit gangster, criminal, pulled off the biggest armed heist in European history, right?
And then there's also the thought of, you know, you have a long career of getting hit in the head, and then you'd want to self-medicate after it's over.
Like, a lot of these guys, they have issues with their...
Their systems, like their endocrine systems, they have issues with their pituitary gland, a lot of depression comes in, and they start trying to fix that with alcohol or fix that feeling with cocaine.
Well, prescription drugs are a real problem because a lot of guys get injured, and then they go to a doctor, or they've got a problem in their lumbar or something like that, or a bulging disc.
I watched that episode, Ballers, and The Rock Johnson, he's always smashing them Vicodins and those NFL guys, and he talks about that.
Have you seen that show?
It's a pretty sick show, The Rock's the Man.
And you kind of see that and you're like, man, that kind of makes sense that, you know, most likely that they are shooting them up and get back on the field.
You got to win the game.
And, you know, when you're in that moment, you're not thinking about it.
But then in the longevity, you know, like that movie Concussion, you know, the one guy from the Steelers was going down the opposite way and smashes into a car, was wanting to kill his family and just snaps out, you know, and that's just that's just crazy, man.
Cutting themselves, and then, you know, tacks like Mankind used to do, and falling off the cages and the tables, and then those metal chairs, and they would just bash them over.
My manager was just telling me about Jake the Snake.
There's a documentary on Netflix and it's just sad that that guy, he went to alcoholism, to depression, was in a trailer, just went from having everything to those injuries and self-medication and the drug and alcohol addiction and stuff.
That life of being a pro wrestler is so fucking difficult.
They don't get nearly enough credit for what they do.
Those guys are on the road sometimes 260 plus days a year, and they are throwing each other through fucking doors and smashing each other in the head and fucking all the stunts that they have to do, all the flips and all the craziness.
I started just fighting for just kind of defend myself going through different schools and getting bullied and you know I started fighting fighting but then uh once I kind of got into the sport and my uncle who kind of led me into this my grandpa and then I started fighting at uh 16 years old and I was fighting like grown men and adults and In MMA fights?
MMA. No Holds Bars.
We'd go to a bar and there'd be pool tables.
People would be drinking beer.
I couldn't even get in.
You had to be like 18 to get in.
I was 16, but my grandpa, he was a super cool, nice guy.
He allowed me to come in and I was fighting these grown men.
He's seen me get into a couple of street fights, you know, and he's like, you know, he knew I was wrestling.
I'd always kind of get scrapping wrestling because I used to just crossface people real hard and I'd always kind of get into a little scrapping match or whatever.
And he invited me out there, and Josh Neer was the man out there at the time, and I was 16 years old.
And I go out there, and I just start fighting.
And then, like, once I did that, and then, like, my first fight, and then my older sister, she was there, and, like, there was, like, these strippers that were there.
I mean, had huge boobs.
You know, I'd never seen anything like that.
And she's like, oh, this is my brother.
He just won.
They're like, oh, hey, like, what's up?
You know, and I'm like, man, like, this is the life right now.
Just knock somebody out.
Now the girls are hitting me up.
I was like the man in school.
I did it just because I loved it.
Now I look back today and I'm like, man, here I am making thousands of dollars, traveling the world, meeting people, sitting down here to the podcast, Joe Rogan.
I'm like, damn, dude, this fighting really took me very far.
I'm sure you've seen it, I was going to say, of the video of some dude came into the gym and challenged him, some big-ass dude, and he beat the fuck out of the guy.
And then he keeps harassing Josh and Josh is like, okay bro, I don't get why you're coming at me, but you want to come to the gym, sign the waiver, we can go at it.
And he comes in, and I guess Josh sparred a little bit, but he's kind of like conserving.
And he's like, because I figured this guy was going to come in.
And he said he came in, and then he's like, let's go.
And then they laced up and then they fought and then Josh just kind of, you know, just walked forward, just kept his hands up, let the guy kind of bomb and get tired and he eventually took him down and started putting it on him.
There was some weirdness going on because it was all over the internet and everybody was talking about what Nir did was kind of fucked up and I'm like, well, I don't know, man.
When a guy comes to your gym and wants to fight like that, that's a weird predicament for a professional fighter to be in, but it's real common.
That happens in all sorts of martial arts schools.
That happened in my Taekwondo school all the time.
Once or twice a year, some guy would come in out of nowhere that wanted to fight.
And then they would put him in there with a black belt and he'd get kicked in the head.
It was common.
It was super common.
I think that's always going to be the case.
If you have a place that teaches people how to fight, there's always going to be some fucking wackadoo who thinks he knows how to fight and wants to go in there and duke it out.
That dude, see it says right there, mentally challenged man beaten to death by MMA fighter.
See, it wasn't MMA because there wasn't even MMA back then.
So the guy behind him, the black guy with the black belt in the white gi, is the guy who beat the fuck out of him.
And...
This guy, I guess he was just a crazy person, and these guys exist, that pretended he knew martial arts, and I think he thought he was just gonna go in there and work out or something, and so he's like throwing these little, he's got like a little something, throwing some kicks, but look, he's not, it's not even like he's really trying to hit him, it seems.
I was hoping to get Aldo, you know, but I mean, you know, I know Max Holloway is in front of me and the guys who are in front of me right now are all coming off loss, yeah.
Yeah, honestly, man, back in the day, dude, I used to throw him around a lot, so I think he just knew that he just wasn't going to try to engage with me, and he just was going to stay away.
There's certain guys that no matter what they do, they'll have great technique, they'll win fights, they'll even knock guys out, but they'll never just be able to just step in and rumble Johnson somebody.
Do you ever think that maybe if you could be a movement guy and could do all those other things, you could have that as well?
Because it's not like your power is ever going to go away.
You're always going to have that.
Like when you knocked out Dos Anjos with that uppercut, that's classic...
Jeremy Stevens, you know, when you knocked out Bermudas with that flying knee.
You've got that power.
Like, if you incorporated all those other techniques that you see these other guys doing as well, like, you know, have you ever thought of that?
Like, maybe just expanding what you do, and also tripping people out, too, because people expect a certain kind of fight from you, because you're so aggressive, you're so, you know, moving forward all the time that if you fought in a different way, it would probably fuck people up.
He looked smaller for the McGregor fight, and I think he concentrated a lot more on strength and conditioning for this fight, and he looked like Aldo of old.
He looked like the Aldo that knocked out Mendez in Brazil.
He looked thick.
So I think...
Yeah, I think maybe...
You know, he's had issues back and forth with making 145, so maybe he's got it dialed in better.
I bet he did, because he did look great that fight, and he did fight a smart fight, and I just felt like he could have finished Frankie.
I felt like he could have did a little bit more, but then I also heard that he didn't want to throw kicks, and he only used his left hand because he had some snitches telling him...
Like that Frankie was going to take him down off kicks, you know, which...
I look up to that guy a lot in the way he's kind of handled his career.
And who's to say within, you know, what if I go in there in the next like three, four fights, I'm just getting KO'd.
And then it's like, okay, it's like Sam Stott's like, man, maybe it's time for me to hang up.
You know then then I would definitely leave home if I'm getting ruined like that and hurting myself I don't want to be brain dead or talking about killing my family because I have trauma injuries or anything like that so definitely not but I definitely want to I have an extra strategy and things that I want to do but as of right now I feel healthy I want I want to keep fighting that's like I said I tell Sean Shelby I'm like man keep me active dude I don't want to fight twice a year You know, that's rough to live off of.
And I just want to keep fighting because I just want to be right back in the mix.
Even if I had to go out of top 10 right now because everybody else is kind of lost and I've already fought people or they already got fights, you know, let somebody else from like the 11th or 12th, 13th guy in the rankings who's coming off a win...
Let's me and him fight, and then we can get right back in the mix so that we can get those Jose Aldos, those Connors, because I want to keep the featherweight exciting, the featherweight division.
That's why I moved down here.
I feel like a lot more athletic, explosive, and I want those exciting fights.
I haven't fought them guys, and I feel like those are great fights for me to go out there and really excel, make some big money, and win, and really just shock the world.
I can basically just go into the computer, type in my weight, the times that I'm training, the hours that I'm training to, the intensity, and then I type in my weight.
I wake up in the morning, weigh myself, And then I type that into the computer, and then the computer just goes off of day-to-day basics.
Like, say if I don't have kefir, I can substitute for egg whites, and it's all computerized.
If I need any help or I'm like, hey, I'm not doing this, he'll adjust a little bit of things for me.
It's all computerized, so you write your weight, you type your weight in, and you type what you say if you've got a strength and conditioning day, and he adjusts your caloric intake accordingly?
He told me that he was actually a chunkier kid growing up and then he just got into diet and nutrition and losing weight and then he got into the military and helping out the military with nutrition.
So when you work with him, say if you start now and you're 177 pounds, how much time do you need to get down to 145 and what do you weigh before you start the big cut, before you dehydrate yourself?
I would only need nine weeks, nine, ten weeks, and I'll be ready to go.
And then, you know, the...
The thing with now without the IVs is I've been putting in a lot of road work on top of things.
I've just been putting in extra credit.
The road work, the runs, the swims, the cycling.
I'm into all that now as far as pushing cardio pace.
But a lot of people, they work out, they work out, they work out, and then they just do these drastic weight cuts.
And I used to do these.
And I'd still feel fine, but I was cutting so much weight, man, and it really started to hurt.
I mean, I'm laying in my deathbed.
And it was like a nasty baptism.
And now, you know, with these runs and burning fats, I've learned how to stay smart and learn like, okay, now you need three weeks hard and then like a week of recovery like on runs.
And running like after, say we do like 75 minutes of just straight wrestling, and then I'll go run another 45 to an hour just at a real low pace that I'm just burning fats, burning calories.
And like throughout the week, I'm burning like a pound and a half to two pounds per week, just depending on my body fat.
And as slowly I get down, I just keep niching, niching, niching.
And then come time to the weight cut, I'm only cutting, you know, 12 pounds.
You know, granted I've cut a lot over the time, but I've burned a lot of body fat.
And then at that point, your body starts to just rejuvenate and you're recovering and you're burning more than you're eating.
And then I'm dropping weight.
It makes the weight cut a lot easier.
Then once I do the water loads and more towards the weight cut, it's just that much easier.
And it's a lot easier going in, you know, not like, man, I've got to cut another 15 pounds and I'm already fucking dying, dude.
I'm looking at a guy like you, you know, if I didn't know any better, like if I wasn't involved in the sport, and I saw a guy like you that's 177, 175, whatever you're at, and someone said, you're going to fight at 145, I'd be like, what?
Like, you're not, he doesn't have any fat to lose.
Like, I'm looking at you like, you don't have, you're not fat at all at 175. I've always been solid.
Just like, I don't know, man, you just go through breakthroughs.
Like when you don't want to run and it's like you're tired after 75 minutes and you're like, man, fuck, dude, I got to do this run.
But then when you do it, and you're like, man, I don't want to do it.
Like, you got 20 more minutes, and you're just like, 20 more minutes.
And I'm like, okay, I'm going to pick up the pace a little bit, or I'm going to keep going through.
Sometimes you'll just kind of get ran down, ran down, and then all of a sudden you'll hit that final run or next run and then boom, you have a breakthrough.
Next thing you know, next week you're recovering a little bit faster.
You notice that the fresh guys that are coming in, they're getting more tired than you in just one round.
And you start having these little mental breakthroughs and these little psychological steps.
You ever read The Art of War?
It's just like little moves like that that you can kind of see that are approaching your game.
And it's just the...
The psychological effect that, like, hey man, I've done this cardio and then I ran for this amount.
I mean, the last camp I ran to Brazil and back, basically.
It's how much I ran, so I was like, dude, there's no way that this guy's gonna push a pace that I can't handle, you know?
And it's just these mental breakthroughs that the runs really help.
I know what zones to kind of stay in when I'm just kind of slowly doing my runs.
But then at the same time, you can't be a pussy and manage your heart rate.
You've got to fucking get after it.
You've got to break yourself, dude.
There's so many times that I wanted to quit and that I just felt like crying and it was just done.
I pushed myself.
But then, boom, I had those mental breakthroughs.
Like, you know what?
I fucking finished it, dude.
I did it.
Most people went home after wrestling.
I mean, there's times where I find myself in the gym still running like on the treadmill or running at the beach and no one's around.
No one.
I'll hit up some of my friends like, no, no, no, no.
I'll have one guy come in and run with me a few times, but sometimes I find myself alone or my strength conditioning coach will put us through a workout, and then I'll go run another 45, 75, or an hour and a half, and I'll look to my left, look to my right, and no one's there.
Just like my coach.
And I'll be like, where they at, George?
Where they at?
Like the D-ads, you know?
Because his name's George.
I'll be like, where they at, George?
And he's like, that's why you're fucking savage, dude.
That's why you're going to win.
And that's really what it comes down to.
But as far as the heart rate, I get it.
I do it.
I follow that program.
But then there's also a time to...
Kill yourself on sprints.
You know, not like sparring.
I don't spar all the time.
I barely spar at all.
I spar probably once a week.
Right now, I haven't sparred since my fight.
I've done tie drills and drilling and wrestling and strength conditioning.
I've already been doing sprints and running.
I just ran an hour easily yesterday, and I just don't spar, spar, spar, spar.
He's just a quiet guy, doesn't need a lot of attention.
I always put him in the category of like, Mark Henry's another one of those guys, doesn't get enough credit, just sort of like lays back, is not like one of those guys that puts a lot of the spotlight on himself.
He's cutting a lot of weight and I don't know if he was doing it properly or whatnot, but he just didn't like it and he likes finding 55. Ross likes to lift and he's a big dude.
It takes everything I got, but I kind of like putting it to that point where it's breaking the edge, you know, because there's a point where, like, I'm nice, I'm fine, you know, like, you fight.
You know, the whole weigh-in thing, we'll get into that a little bit later, about how you can weigh in early and then you eat.
I kind of like that edge, you know, where I feel like I'm dying and then, like, I look that guy in the eye who's, you know, I think about who he could beat me or this and that, you know, I'm training for him the whole camp.
I kind of like that edge, that switch, that meanness.
It's on, motherfucker.
I've been training a long time.
I've put everything into this and it really takes all I got to make 45. I kind of like that switch for me.
You know, Conor McGregor's coach was talking about that he thinks that Conor not cutting weight was probably a bad thing for him.
And that, you know, fighting Diaz and just being able to eat whatever he wanted and not go through the grueling pattern that he's gone through all these other fights.
One of my doctors, Brad Archer, back home said that he gave me...
A lot of tips, you know, because when this came in, I'm like, I'm freaking out.
I'm like, fuck, dude, they're taking me these IVs.
I'm going to have to go back to 55. You know, I'm freaking out, you know, and they were sending me all this stuff, you know, and I read a lot about it because I was like, all right, well, do this.
And then I met Daryl Christian, one of my wrestling coaches, who's a phenom, Olympian, and he's just like, we got to put in this road work, dude.
He's like, we got to start building you a cardio base.
He's like, you've always just killed yourself, killed yourself, and then had to kill yourself making weight.
He's like, you never built a cardio base.
You never had a solid foundation.
So then we started these heart rate monitors, VO2s, and putting in these run programs, putting in these different sprints.
What is it like the VO2 max, the reason why people do that is because a lot of people wanted to know how they would build endurance.
And people think that you just need to sprint, sprint, sprint, sprint, sprint, and you're going to be in good shape.
Granted, you might be in good shape, but none of them had a low base cardio where they would just run at like say like a 4.8 or 5.0 on a treadmill for a long period of time.
And that's actually how you build the anaerobic system a lot better is through low-base cardio.
That's interesting that you're a big proponent of that long, slow style because that was one of the things that some people that weren't fighters but were strength and conditioning people would say that that's not going to benefit you.
You know, they would say that's not what you need to do in a fight because a fight is, you know, explosion, it's fast, you don't have that slow running thing.
But old school, like old school boxers, they all ran like that.
I mean, five miles, you could probably get done within low pace, you know, 35, 45 minutes.
You know, that's kind of interesting because my strength and conditioning coach now, George Castro, he used to work out with Don Frye, and he'd just be like...
He'd be like, man, one day I was stretching, and then Don's like, what the fuck are you doing?
Get your gloves on.
Get in the ring.
And he's like, take off your shirt.
Let's do this.
And then they just go.
But there was no structure to it.
But now we're meeting these coaches and the scientists behind it.
And my Olympian coach, Daryl Christian, he's just like, dude, you cannot build high-base cardio by sprint, sprint, sprint, killing yourself.
He's like, we've got to build this low base.
And he's also a spinal surgeon.
You know, he's also been in the game for a long time.
And he's like, that's how all these fighters and top-notch guys would stay in shape all year round.
It was drilling, drilling, drilling, drilling.
And he's like, we would just do long runs.
Anytime we get a break, we had to be doing long runs like every other day.
And he's like, that's where we were able to make weight, stay on task, and be in shape all the time.
There's Onnit kettlebells that look like they're 10 pounds that weigh like 100. Well, have you ever done the Keith Weber extreme kettlebell cardio workout?
I'm 30 years old and never injected anything in my life.
And I like that high and the mental aspect of it.
And that's kind of interesting, too, because people who do take steroids, it's like, man, now that that little edge that they got, that little high that they were getting, they're just like, yeah, I'm killing it.
But then when they stop doing that, mentally, they get fucked, dude.
They're like, dude, like, man, am I still the same guy?
Do you ever see Dan Gable or hear him talk about that when he was competing against the Russians back during the doping days where the Russians, he knew they were all on steroids, but his philosophy was...
Like I said, when you're doing these runs and these mental breakthroughs and you're really putting in the work and when it's all said and done and then you're peaking and everything kind of wears off and everything's just flowing, right?
It's like you just look in the mirror and you're like, look at that guy and you're just like, dude, There's nothing that you can do that's going to break me.
I've already been broken down many of times.
The same thing the Army does.
They break you down to build you up.
And then when you're in that complete...
When you've pushed yourself past your limits and you've had those mental breakthroughs of where you've thought about quitting, but then you kept going, and then you did it again and again and again, and you keep pushing.
Like your boy did the 100 miles.
Now he's going to do 200. You know, just mentally, he has an advantage over a lot of people.
Yep, neck, pecs, subscap, you know, I get in my, you know, breaking up my abdominals, getting into my calves, you know, when I'm at home, you know, because I get like rehab from Have you ever used one of these things, man?
Cordyceps mushroom is a mushroom that aids in oxygen utilization.
That doesn't have anything to do with...
See, what people do, there's a lot of talk about alkaline, like making your blood alkaline and how it changes it.
But I remember reading something that that's horseshit.
First of all, what you're doing is all healthy.
If you're telling me you're taking wheatgrass juice, you're getting phytonutrients, you're getting all sorts of minerals, you're getting healthy vitamins for sure.
I've tested the water of taking strips and tested it out, but no, I haven't tested my blood to see if I am.
The only time I've done that was with...
When I took, like, the piss test to test my rehydration and stuff, the guy, he'll even let you, like, look it in the scope, the USADA guy, you know, he comes in, he's like, all right, pull your pants down, start peeing.
And then he'll put it in there, and the guy, he was like, the last time I did it, he's like, look at the light, see that?
And, like, I was pretty high, and he's like, this is good.
It strips you of minerals because your water is supposed to be attached to all these minerals, and when you're just drinking only distilled water, your body kind of freaks out?
What's fucked up is if you drink too much water you can die.
Yeah.
I remember I was in Sacramento, I think, and there was a, maybe it was San Jose, I don't remember, but it was a local radio show had a contest to drink the most water to win a PlayStation, and this lady drank so much water she died.
It just talks about the claims of alkaline water, and it really says there's no legit studies that even say that it'll do anything to you, or that you can even make it change to an alkaline state.
The only thing it does say that might be why it says kidney patients should avoid alkaline water, which is why athletes and exercisers are one subgroup who might benefit from drinking it.
It's a perspective issue with a lot of people, but the way you approach different scenarios in your life has a huge impact on how you feel.
And as an athlete, especially I would imagine as a fighter, it's very important to maintain a healthy mindset and to keep your stress levels at a very low level.
Like, if you're dating some crazy girl, or if you're a girl and you're dating a crazy guy, and they, like, a lot of people, if they're not getting enough attention from you, they start drama.
They cause issues.
Like, if you're focusing too much on other things, they get upset at you.
I definitely am open to all sorts of possibilities post-life.
I don't think that I have any sort of lock on what happens that I haven't experienced.
So for me to say that there's no God or that there isn't some omnipresent entity or energy or something that is the guiding force of the universe...
That would be ridiculous.
What do I know?
I mean, I think human beings, we are in some sort of strange state of development, where we're aware of our own existence, we're aware of life, we're aware of certain rules that the universe seems to follow, where the universe seems to be, everything seems to be constantly in motion and changing.
You know, whether it is the orbit of planets, whether it is the biological life on planets, whether it's the life of stars.
Things have a life, and they come and they go, and then even galaxies themselves.
Every galaxy in the center of every galaxy is a supermassive black hole that's one half of 1% of the entire mass of the galaxy.
And that supermassive black hole is sucking that galaxy into its fucking center, into the event horizon.
When you see these spiral galaxies, at the center of those spiral galaxies is a black hole that's absorbing all the matter, slowly but surely, of that galaxy.
And no one knows what is going on in that black hole.
They don't understand what it is, they have theories, but One of the theories of black holes is that inside every black hole is potentially a whole nother universe.
So, there's hundreds of billions of galaxies.
Each galaxy has a supermassive black hole in the center of it, and inside each one of those galaxies may be hundreds of millions of other galaxies, hundreds of millions of other universes.
So, the idea that anybody could sit here and tell you, there's no God, man.
I know there's no God.
I think it's incredibly arrogant when people say there is no God.
What I think is that religion clearly shows the hand of man.
It clearly shows the manipulation of other human beings where they have taken Some universal rules.
Like, there's some universal golden rules.
Treat others the way you would like to be treated.
Understanding that loving each other, brothers and sisters and friends and community, has massive benefits and you feel connected to each other and it is the right way to be.
There's a benefit to that.
We all feel it.
We know it.
The love that you have for your children.
I know the love that I have for my children or the love that I have for my wife or my friends or people that are close to me.
There's a beauty in that that is magical.
And I don't know if that beauty and that magic is to...
It's to enforce a sense of community so that we can continue to breed, so that we're rewarded, these natural reward systems, so that we can continue to foster life and that we can continue to evolve and grow.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
But I know that the best things in life are...
They're connected to love and I would think that if there's any guiding force any beautiful force of the universe It is that love and even the love of the beauty of the universe itself There's a love that I get when like last night I went out on my porch and I smoked a little doob and I looked up at the stars and I was I Fell in love with the stars man.
I feel love when I look out into the universe I mean I think that's one of my favorite things to do is look at stars just look up and go fuck Dude, I'm the big same way, dude.
Especially when you're out in the middle of nowhere, like it's out in the woods, and you look up and it's just pure dark, and you're just like, man, look at that, dude.
And the way the Big Island is set up, they have special diffused lighting so that the street lights don't provide light pollution...
So you can see everything, and you go through the clouds, and dude, it looks like that.
When you're up there, I think it's like, I want to say like 13,000 feet above sea level, but when you look up at the sky, dude, you see the Milky Way, like the full Milky Way.
It's incredible.
Like, see if you can find it.
Just do Google images from the Keck Observatory, because maybe that's a good one.
I really feel like there's something going on with people today and one of the things with the arrogance of human beings and The ridiculous way we behave I think part of it is connected to the fact that we don't see space anymore I think space is so humbling and it I think it's psychedelic when I I don't even have to do I don't have to smoke pot I have to do anything when I go to Hawaii and I look up I get high It puts me in perspective.
It lets me know.
You're in a magical place.
You're on this strange, circular spaceship that's hurling through infinity, and above you is an infinite number of giant explosions, huge fireballs in the sky that are just floating there.
No one knows why.
So, that's what I think about God.
I just think a lot of people, they use religion and God as a scaffolding to try to be a good person and to try to have rules and to try to have structure in their life and to try to give themselves something to look forward to, which I think is a good thing.
I think there's a lot of good things that religion provides people.
But I also think it provides people with a lot of excuses to be shitty to people, a lot of hate, you know, a lot of, I mean, especially ancient religions that suppress women or suppress gay people or suppress people's rights in any way, shape or form based on this idea that, you know, it's ancient scripture tells them they're not supposed to do certain things.
I think that's all ridiculous.
But I think that's not really God.
That's the hand of man.
So the problem with even the term God is that it's kind of been co-opted by religion, which has definitely been co-opted by man.
You can learn a lot from ancient religious texts and ancient knowledge that people knew.
They figured things out a long time ago, and they were trying to figure out a way to pass that down onto other people.
Aramaic if you go to the Dead Sea Scrolls are in Aramaic and the Dead Sea Scrolls contain a lot of the stories that are in the ancient Bibles and it's like it's really convoluted the translation between Aramaic to Latin to Greek to back to English it's like you lose a lot and then in ancient Hebrew and in ancient Hebrew also Words double as numbers.
Letters double as numbers.
There's no numbers in ancient Hebrew.
It's like the letter A is also the number one.
So words also have numerical value.
Like the word God and the word love, they have the same numerical value.
Because the numbers in the letters, it means something.
It's not like you can say, ah, go fuck yourself.
It's not like just a phonetic language.
It's a language that also has mathematics incorporated to it.
And that meant something.
It was a part of...
So when you take these ancient Hebrew sentences...
And you translate them to English.
And you don't just translate them to English.
You translate them to Latin.
You translate them to Greek.
And then you translate them to English.
A lot's lost in the process.
But I think these people were trying to figure some things out about life.
And I think we could probably learn something from them.
But for sure, a lot of it was people manipulating the other people around them.
And saying, God says this.
You have to do that.
Or you will die in a fiery fucking pit in the middle of the earth.
Say if Aldo, who just won the interim title, is going to defend his title against someone else in the top ten, and you see that coming up, and you don't have a fight scheduled, do you start training thinking maybe someone can get injured and you might get that call?
Because MMA, particularly the UFC, is notorious for last-minute fallouts where guys get injured.
I've always been a fan, dude, and I know you always represented me very well, and I watched that podcast that you were doing, dude, and I just thought that was awesome, you know, and a lot of people are like, hey man, Joe Rogan gives you a lot of love, and I kept my shorts, and I was like, man, I gotta get back on the podcast, and I was like, you know what, this guy actually offered me some money, and I was gonna sell him, and I was like, nah, man, I gotta give him to my man Joe.