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June 2, 2014 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:53:12

Joe Rogan Experience #508 - TJ Dillashaw & Duane Ludwig

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Main voices

duane ludwig

24:15

joe rogan

01:46:44

tj dillashaw

35:59

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brian redban

00:13

craig jones

00:02

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Speaker	Time	Text
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey ya freaks!
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unidentified		That's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Ludacris was playing with some Onnit kettlebells.
		Ludacris apparently has become a fitness freak.
		He's always posted on his Instagram about working out.
		He's got some trainer he takes on the road with him and he just bangs it out every day.
		Like rain or shine, he's committed to working out, which is pretty interesting.
		Smart thing to do, you know, if you're a rich guy, bring a goddamn trainer with you everywhere.
		Make sure you get a workout then.
		Ludicrous.
		You smart bastard.
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		That doesn't make sense.
		June 48?
		Is that real?
		Why would it be June 48?
unidentified		48 hour special.
unidentified		It's June 1st.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		48 hour sale.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		That's it.
		48 hour sale.
		Okay, so June 48. So go there for one day and 23 hours and 36 minutes and 43 seconds.
		As of 12.23pm on June 2nd.
		Do the math, bitch!
		Alright, the champ is here.
		TJ Dillashaw's in the motherfucking house.
unidentified		Trainer Dwayne Bang motherfucking Ludwig here as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's get going.
unidentified		Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
		The Joe Rogan Experience.
		Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've been a lucky man.
		I've been able to see some shit in my life.
		I've been able to see a lot of shit up close and personal.
		I've seen way more than a thousand fights.
		I don't know how many I've ever seen professionally.
		The best fight I ever saw in my life, the finest performance, was this man sitting across the table from me.
		T.J. Dillshaw, your fight with Hannah Burrell was the slickest, most technical, most beautiful mountain that I've ever seen anybody climb.
		The way you did that shit was, seriously, no matter what happens from now on to the end of time, that was a milestone to me.
		That was like a guy who rose to the occasion against the biggest dragon in the fucking forest.
		The one everybody was scared of.
		Dude, Hennenborough was a fucking werewolf.
		That dude was wheel-kicking people in the face and fucking leaping knees and pounding dudes out, taking their backs like a ghost.
		Just wicked.
		Looked wicked at every turn.
		Undefeated for like 30 fucking fights.
		I mean, it was incredible.
		Hennenborough was a beast.
unidentified		And TJ Dillashaw, you picked him apart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You moved around him.
		You looked so relaxed in there for the moment you got into that cage.
		I go, look at this kid.
		He looks like he's in a sparring session.
		You were just loose and moving.
		You weren't doing anything that showed that you were tense.
		You weren't doing anything where you're hesitating, anything where you're dipping your feet into the water.
		It was like, from the get-go, you were in the groove.
		And you could see right away, there was a thing where Burrell was like, oh shit, what the fuck's going on here?
		Somewhere in the first couple of minutes, before you landed that right hand in the first round, somewhere in those first couple of minutes, you could see he was like, I'm getting fucked up here.
		Like, this dude is hitting me, and I can't hit this dude.
		And then all of a sudden, whack!
		You drop this right hand on him over the top of the left shoulder on the button.
		The legs give out, he goes down, and I'm like, holy shit!
		And he survived the rest of the fight until the fifth round when you stopped him, but he was done after.
		He just wasn't the same after that.
		And his corner was telling him, do not exchange with this guy.
		Stay away from the exchanges.
		I was like, I can't believe what I'm hearing.
		His corner's telling him to run from TJ Dillashaw.
		They're like, take this fucking guy down!
		Grab him and take him down!
		Which, you know, you just wouldn't think would be their strategy.
		So it was like a clear adjustment of something that was going on in a fight.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Well, thank you.
		I appreciate that.
		I'm going to have a grin on my face the rest of the day now, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you deserve it.
		You deserve it and more.
		You know, you two together are a very unique combination.
		It's really interesting because I've had the pleasure of being friends with guys like Duke Rufus, who's a great trainer and a great guy, and Greg Jackson, who's a great trainer, a great guy, Mark Delagrate.
		I've had a chance to become friends with so many of these guys.
		And One of the more problematic aspects of fighter-trainer relationships are that fighters are kind of stubborn and they have a lot of ego and so are trainers.
		And a lot of trainers used to be fighters and a lot of guys have this my way or the highway thing going on and a lot of other guys don't like to take instruction.
		It's a lot of weirdness when it comes to fighters.
		It's a lot of weirdness when it comes to emotions after losses, trying to figure out who's to blame, passing blame when maybe you shouldn't.
		But every now and then it works perfect.
		Every now and then you got like this puzzle where these two dudes are actually friends and you see it work out great.
		And that's where I see you guys right now.
		You guys are in this rare space.
		You know like Rufus has it with Anthony Pettis.
		You know like and he's had it with a lot of other fighters that he's trained as well.
		He's such a friendly and affable guy, you know?
		And Dwayne, you found a way to, you and TJ, the way you guys sync together, I see it.
		You know, I see it when you talk about fights.
		I had the privilege of watching you work with him once in my gym, holding pads for him.
		I was watching you coach him and you guys, the way you guys move together.
		It's a real interesting relationship.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it helps out that he cares how I do and that not only I want to win for myself, but I want to win for him too.
		It holds like this higher standard of like what I want to do every day I get in the gym.
		I got a guy watching me 24-7 on what I'm doing wrong or right.
		And so I want to like not only, it's like pleasing your father when you're a kid, you know what I mean?
		Like doing the things right for him, you know?
		It's like the same thing.
		I want to do what Dwayne has shown me the right way.
		And it's like I've just got addicted to doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so cool.
		It's so cool to see.
		I love watching shit work, you know?
		So it's so cool to see you go over to this alpha male team and all of a sudden, boom!
		I mean, you got this camp full of killers!
		Like, arguably the best lighter weight camp overall in the country.
		Without a doubt, top three, right?
		Not the country, the world.
		There's Nova Uniao, there's you guys, and there's, you know, a couple other places.
		That have that kind of pool of talent in the lighter weight divisions.
		You guys have it locked down.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		This is a special time in martial arts history.
		What's going on right now with the team.
		It's something special for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		It seems like this is a special time in martial arts history, period.
		It really seems like there's a lot of energy on MMA right now.
		The fact that there was two UFCs going on at the same time on Saturday, you know, that was pretty wild.
		And I just, I feel like more people are aware that the highs in MMA are higher than any other sport.
		You can't compare.
		A ball going into a net is still just a fucking ball going into a net.
		And when you head kicked Henning Brown that fifth round, And you saw his knees go, and you moved in for the closer.
		I was like, oh, shit!
		Dominates him for four rounds, and he's gonna head kick him and stop him!
		This is crazy!
		That kind of feeling of being a fan, of watching a wild fight like that, it's super hard to describe.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of like putting your life on the line when you're in there.
		Even though it's not, but it feels like it.
		That kind of adrenaline rush and that feeling of once you get the fight done, there's no better feeling in the world.
		You have to scream and go crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't imagine.
		I couldn't imagine.
		I knew what it was like to win a Taekwondo tournament.
		Nothing compared to a UFC fight, especially a UFC fight for the world title.
		Especially a UFC fight for the world title when you're an 8-1 underdog on the consensus, pound for pound, at least number two guy in the world.
		It's like Jon Jones and him.
		They would alternate between one and two.
unidentified		I agree.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And in my opinion, Mighty Mouse.
		In my opinion, they don't give Mighty Mouse enough credit.
		He's never in the top four of people's list.
		I think he could be number one.
		I mean, he's right up there.
		He's as good as anybody in the world.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Awesome athletes.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's perfect technically.
		Everything he does is perfect.
		I always say young fighters.
		You want to learn how to fight perfectly?
		Watch a guy like that.
		Watch a guy who's a long-time veteran, been a champion for quite a few fights now.
		He's as legit as it gets.
		But you stepped in there with a guy who's right up there with him.
		I mean, that's what everybody thought.
		That's what I thought.
		I mean, I still do.
		I still think he's an elite, elite fighter.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you figured out, together, you figured out a style and a strategy to expose what you felt like were some areas where he was vulnerable.
		And we actually talked at lunch about the very techniques that TJ was using.
		Especially how you kept passing under his left and you were behind him?
		Dude!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I knew that I was a lot faster than him.
		He's a big 135-pounder and he's very powerful, but I think that hinders his speed.
		I think he's too big for the weight class almost, and I knew that I could be so much faster than him and create the angles that he wouldn't be able to keep up.
		He looked lost.
		Even in just the first round, he couldn't find me.
		He wanted to hold me and stop me to be able to kick me or hit me with his big right hand.
		He throws the same techniques, they're just a little bit too slow, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so fascinating.
		It's so fascinating watching your evolution from The Ultimate Fighter.
		I mean, I've had the pleasure of watching you from the moment you were introduced to the world, when you started doing The Ultimate Fighter, and you were a hungry young kid, lots of potential, but lots of potential, and then world champion, one of the finest performances the sport's ever seen in just a couple of years.
		That's amazing!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep, definitely.
		That's why I just had my buddy James Blair make a new highlight of just his recent fight since I've been here.
		And just to see the progression of each fight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I sent that to Jamie.
		Did you get that?
		Load that shit up.
		Let's watch that.
		Because it is pretty incredible.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It just tells a story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm not trying to give you a big head, kid.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No, I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Settle down.
unidentified		That's what's awesome about these guys are coachable, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He can't!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm already thinking about defending the title and having to get nervous about that.
		You know what I mean?
		So you gotta keep yourself hungry to get better.
		And I think that's why I've gotten so good so fast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
		I have full trust and full knowledge that you'll navigate the waters.
		You got to this far.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm too competitive to get that big of a head, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure.
		You're smart enough to know.
		That's the beautiful thing about where we live today is that people...
		See, back when the Muhammad Ali days or anybody before that...
		Hold on a second.
		It was hard to get information.
		It was hard to watch documentaries on fighters' lives.
		It was hard to read books on their lives.
		You kind of just got stories from old trainers.
		And there was a lot of mistakes that were repeated over and over and over again.
		But at a certain point in time, in today's day and age, especially with the internet, you get checked enough so they're getting completely cocky and delusional like some fighters have gotten.
		You've got to try hard to get that way today.
		Because dudes are chippy down, you know, and the world exposed you.
		And there's, like, really good writers now, too, who, like, there's a, what is it, Jack Slack, is that the dude's name, who did that takedown, the video, he used a lot of animated GIFs, and then talked about your article.
		Or talked about your fight in an article?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You haven't seen it?
		It's fantastic.
		Let me find it if we get a chance here while we're watching this highlight and I'll give the guy the full shout out and where the website is so you can watch it because he broke down the very strategy that you used and showed after.
		I'm sorry, with animated highlights of you doing it.
		So it explained what he had done wrong in past fights and how you capitalized on it.
		Brilliant article.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so it was an article that came out after my fight?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, after the fight.
		But it's so indicative of this new wave of super intelligent fans that break down fights and super intelligent martial arts analysts.
		You can call them fans, but a lot of these guys have been martial artists their whole life.
		They just have another job.
		So they're still fans of martial arts, so they choose to write these really brilliant articles on something, and you're seeing just way more info.
		So more info about what works, what doesn't work, and more info about the mistakes of the past, where guys are fucked up.
		Let's take a look at that documentary, or this highlight reel.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		All you have to do is believe, baby!
		Believe you're the best in the world, you'll get here!
		It's just my destiny.
unidentified		I just gotta believe that it's my destiny to beat him, and it's my time. - James Slayer.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He kind of took me under his wing.
unidentified		I just kind of fell perfectly into his fighting style.
		Dwayne Lethal just pour his information into TJ has been awesome.
		He's just on a different level right now than he was when he first started.
		Boom.
		He keeps such a good base, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		And angles up to the side.
unidentified		Up to the side.
unidentified		For real, modern day ninja.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This highlight reel is so awesome.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		James Blair rocks it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is the name of the highlight reel if people want to watch it because they're listening to this?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		What is it?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Power of Belief?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		T.J. Dillashaw, The Power of Belief.
		Man, what a great title for this sort of a highlight reel.
		I mean, that really is what it's perfect.
		It's a perfect title.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		How much do you really believe and want it?
unidentified		There's no doubt, there's no denying Henan Burrow was the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the world.
unidentified		He was.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He was the number one pound-for-pound fighter.
unidentified		Henan Burrow is absolutely one of the best fighters in the world, pound-for-pound.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		32 fights in a row.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, let that sink in for a little bit.
unidentified		He's gone nearly a decade without losing a fight.
unidentified		T.J. Dillashore now, with 15 months he had, with Dwayne Ludwig, is a completely different fighter.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Henan Burrow is...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		209. He went straight Nick Diaz on him.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I always do, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm a huge Nick Diaz fan.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
		That's awesome.
		You went Nick Diaz in the stands.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I've done it my last three fights.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I've just been a huge fan of Diaz, so I always do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's so cool.
		I love it, man.
		I love it.
		Oh, that right hand was so wicked, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I knew right there, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		On the biznut.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Base.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Side.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it wasn't like he wasn't swinging, dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That dude was still throwing heavy leather.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He was in the fight.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's got a good jab.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He popped my head back a couple times with an awesome jab onto the counter.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He hits hard, man.
		He hits very hard.
		He's very fast, too.
		So for you to say you were way faster than him is redonkulous, son.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you were.
		I mean, it wasn't just that.
		It was everything.
		It was a combination of everything.
		It was not one thing that you could tie it down to.
		It was your movement.
		It was your confidence, your relaxation in there.
		Look at that.
		Just that series that you just did where you ducked under that right hand of his and cracked him again.
		You were just hitting him with a volume of strikes that was preposterous.
		He just couldn't deal with it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's because this guy's got me striking at all angles.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No matter where he goes, I'm able to strike.
unidentified		Boom.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Excellent pace, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That fucking picture is so awesome, too.
		That picture of you freaking out after you won.
		You just look like electricity was shooting out of your body.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You look like a psychopath, dude.
unidentified		You look so fired up and so ridiculous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's one of the greatest pictures in all of MMA. That picture of you just...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Dude, it was an amazing feeling.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Man, I appreciate that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What were you thinking at that moment?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I was thinking my bang muay thai is tight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My bang muay thai is tight.
		No shit, man.
		Wow.
		How old are you now, man?
		28. What does that feel like?
		What is this ride like?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's been crazy.
		It's been, especially for how fast it's been.
		I mean, obviously I picture myself being the best in the world, but I never expected it to be this fast and for me to catch on as fast as I did.
		And when I quit school and thought about fighting, it was just kind of like, I hope I can make this work, you know?
		I hope this is going to pan out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Seems like you're panned out pretty good.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Seems like you're doing alright now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The crazy thing is you're getting better.
		If you can continue at the same pace, again, I hate blowing smoke up people's asses, but I think you can handle it.
		If you can continue at this pace that you're at right now, just the amount of development that I've seen from you from the time you're in the Ultimate Fighter to the time you become champion, I've never seen it.
		I've never seen anybody improve that quickly.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing.
		You two together are a wild combination, man.
		It's a weird combination, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's because he's so hyper and craziness, and then I stay calm and weathered.
		It kind of just meshes, you know what I mean?
		He's like 100 miles an hour and I'll calm down a little bit and just makes this perfect aura of...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm trying to be calm right now, not be too freaking hyper, but just breathe, relax, the spaceship's hovering.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're a part of the whole developmental process, though, with that madness of yours.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, because you're so into, like, we were, like, we went to lunch before your fight, and it was me and, like, five of my friends.
		Dwayne didn't give a fuck with anybody else talking about it.
		He was on strategy, movement.
		He was breaking shit down.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Dude, that's what I've said in all my interviews.
		It's because he cares about his job as much as I do is why this works, too.
		He goes home.
		I'll get home after a hard day of practice, right?
		I worked out, like, two, three times.
		Get home.
		Just want to veg out, watch some TV, and, like, think about not fighting at all.
unidentified		Right.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Anything else but fighting.
		And then he'll text me on something I should be doing for my fight.
		Or he watched a number I was fighting, things I could do in the fight.
		And I was like...
		God dammit, I gotta think about the fight, go run, and get all amped up.
		He's like, yeah, you're right, I can do that.
		That's what I need to do.
		So he's making me think about the fight 24-7, which helps me out a lot.
		I get in those situations in the fight, and it's like, I've already been there before.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's incredible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder how long you guys can keep this up.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Forever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's so crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're both so manic about it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Forever.
		Definitely a good mix, for sure.
		The best mix, 100%.
		I don't know if it was kind of a destiny meant to be to make sure where our paths cross or if you create your destiny if it's already predetermined.
		I'm not too sure but this is working out like as if it was meant to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well you as a trainer you've really fallen into this role with such a passion.
		It's so cool to see because for a lot of fighters they develop all this technique and they have all this knowledge and they get so much better at training but then as they start to get older their body just doesn't work the same anymore.
		There's a certain amount of time you can put into fighting and competing.
		You could Randy Couture it if you're a freak, but he's a rare, rare dude.
		He's a rare guy.
		I don't know how he did that.
		Nobody knows how he did that.
		Deep into his 40s, still competing at a super high level.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Gangster as fuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just an animal.
		Just a savage.
		For most guys, at a certain point in time, they have to find an exit strategy, and it becomes a very difficult time for them.
		But for you, you seem to have found this perfect blend of right when your career, when you started to slow down, boom!
		You take over the spot.
		There's very little gap time in between the two.
		You could take a fight right now.
		If somebody offered you a fight right now, you're in shape.
		You could just do a six-week camp and still do a fight.
		So it's not like everybody was saying, man, Dwayne Ludwig's got to hang up the gloves.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Got you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You were still in the game, and you decided to start training fighters, and you seem to have just won't just hit the gas.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's what I've been kind of looking to do.
		I've been training guys since I was 19 anyway.
		I was actually one of a mint holder for Mr. Boss Ruten, Sensei Boss Ruten, for his Rattelman fight when he was in Colorado.
		So I learned a lot then also, and I don't know how old I was there, 24 or 25. It's something I've naturally been doing anyway since I was 19. And the last couple years of my fighting, I was just fighting to stay busy and for a paycheck and not to get a regular job.
		Sorry, I slowed down and relaxed.
		I get excited, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know you do.
unidentified		It's okay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I love this man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's passionate.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know you do.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's as fast as my brain goes.
		So let me think.
		If I had this opportunity to do it a couple years prior, I probably would have.
		But, you know, it wasn't the right time then.
		That's why, just the way the chain of events happened, you know, I couldn't actually take a fight.
		My knee's still pretty jacked up from the last fight.
		My knee got blown out.
		So it's kind of, I was in a position where I had three months worth of pay and a year-long injury, you know?
		And then Faber texted me when I was like, hey, Dwayne has a steering number?
		And I was like, yeah, and then gave me the opportunity to come out and work with these guys, and I was handed a parking lot full of race cars and asked to take them to the race, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the best way to describe it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's been an awesome ride and it's literally like playing a video game, 100%.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		As long as the controller works and you hit the right cues at the right time, it's literally like playing a video game.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what you said to me after the fight.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Your exact words.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's how I see it.
		I'm just a child at heart, I guess.
		That's the quickest analogy.
		People say that I like that brotherly love, but I genuinely care for my guys and I love them like my kids.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Uriah Faber has done an amazing job of putting together a wild camp of barbarians up there.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He just kind of draws in these people, too.
		It's not like he went out searching for all these great training partners.
		Just his personality in general, the person he is, kind of just attracted everyone to that camp.
		He tried recruiting me when I was in wrestling.
		I didn't go up to Davis and wrestle where he was at.
		After I graduated at school, I just migrated up there.
		Munoz kind of pushed me that way and it just kind of happened.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		As long as you can stick it out and be pretty gangster in the gym, then you're going to get really good.
		Otherwise, you're going to get your butt kicked and you're probably going to leave.
		But if you're tough enough to get into sparring rooms, we'll throw down.
		If you're able to stick it out, then you're going to get a lot better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is the thing, whether or not guys can stick it out.
		But it's amazing that he's been able to inspire so many guys to go to this one area.
		And if you know Uriah, he's a unique dude.
		He's very smart.
		Very smart, and he's also super motivated and driven.
		His book is pretty interesting, and one of the things that I talked to him about when I interviewed him for the UFC was how he'll write things down and look at them first thing in the morning when he wakes up.
		He'll have a list of things that he wants to accomplish, a list of things he's trying to do.
		And having a guy like that around Very inspirational, because you want to do the same kind of things.
unidentified		Exactly.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Copycat method, you know?
unidentified		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think he's gotten all that from that book, The Secret.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He kind of learned the way of setting goals and setting the way you should live your life, and it just worked out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Secret is kind of bullshit, but not.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It gives you the right path, I think.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think it's something motivational.
		It's something created for a positive likeness on something.
		It's a positive thing, just helping people.
		I'm a fan of it, for sure.
		I know what you mean, though.
		It is somewhat bullshit, too.
		There's good pros and cons to it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it is motivational, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And anything motivational is good, if you can find motivation.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's meant to be good, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just like it only works on the people that it works on.
		Do you know what I'm saying?
		Like, for you, the secret worked.
		Look, you're the world champion now.
		You know what I'm saying?
		Like, if you were in a documentary on the secret, and you were like, I just knew that I could make this happen, and I concentrated on it every day, and sure, I put a lot of hard work in, but the law of attraction is what led you to that victory.
		People would go, oh my god, the secret's real.
		And then they would try it out themselves.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's what you're saying.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I want to breathe underwater.
		I want to be Aquaman.
		So I'm just going to concentrate on this.
		No, you're not going to make it happen.
		There's certain laws of physics.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it comes back to the copycat method, I guess.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You're just copying someone else that was successful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, my point was that it does work in that it works for people it works on.
		But it doesn't work for everybody.
		Like, there are people that have started out in really poor families and bad neighborhoods, and they've gone on to become super wealthy and successful, and they're They're helping a lot of people and starting charities.
		It does happen sometimes.
		But it also happens that people just get fucked over and they wind up in terrible situations.
		And you can't blame those people that are in the worst situation that it's all just about the way they thought about things.
		No, you get lucky breaks in life.
		So it's sort of a combination of those things.
		Like, yeah, if you make all the right decisions and you get a bunch of lucky breaks and you don't get hit by a fucking truck while you're trying to cross the street, you can be really successful.
		But it's also, there's a lot of randomness involved in this universe.
		So you've got to kind of, if you don't acknowledge that randomness, people get mad at you.
		Like, people get upset at you.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just this overall general message of doing something positive and directing your life to a certain direction and get the results you want.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's just when it becomes a system.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, this will work.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's funny you say it, because...
		You know, as random fighting is with split seconds and fractions of an inch, I've taken, you know, not completely, but I was able to take some parts of fighting and make it a system.
		And that's one of the things that we train off of, certain numbers and commands and keys, so we can speak while they're in the cage or on the pads or sparring.
		So, you know, that's one of my tricky things in life right now, is taking something so random as fighting and putting that into a system so that we can't Predict the patterns and, you know, get used to what's coming, what may be coming next to the counter or predict the counter and things like that as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And this is something that exists in boxing but is even more important when you add in the extra limbs of Muay Thai, right?
		Like there's more, like technique becomes...
		In a lot of ways, it's much more of a balancing act than it is in boxing.
		In boxing, speed and athleticism are so dominating that a lot of fighters that maybe don't have the best technique have really good speed and athleticism and they'll be a more technical fighter who's slower.
		But in Muay Thai, there's so much distance involved and so many other techniques and so many options and possibilities that a really technical fighter, you know, like...
		Amir Sadala, good example, right?
		Amir Sadala is a real technical guy, you know, but not a physically strong guy by any stretch of the imagination.
		Not a super athlete, just a regular guy, but became pretty technical with his Muay Thai, you know?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he could beat guys that are a lot faster and stronger.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he had definitely a good base in Muay Thai for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to talk to you about your system because you're the, like, as far as the people that I know that have really spent the most time trying to break things down into, I know the Dutch do it a lot, and I had the pleasure of training with Rob Kamen several times, and he's a very good guy, and he has a whole system that he teaches.
		You know, he's got this Kamen Muay Thai system that he, he's basically, in a lot of ways like you, has kind of We've sort of broken down all the various possibilities that can happen in a fight.
		But I think you've done it on another level.
		You've taken it to an even wackier place.
		You're thinking about it all goddamn day.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Kamin probably doesn't even know his own combo.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We have a combo that's named after him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh really?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't even know it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it a round kick across the front of the thighs?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It helps.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He loves that technique.
		He would throw that round kick across the front of the thighs of both legs all the time.
		That's a beautiful technique.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		In some of the fights that I've seen, he would fake the front kick and come down with the hook off that same side.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was another technique of his.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		And he would just crack people.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Drop a hard hook.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, solid hook for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was just going to say, I love watching old Rob Kamen.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I bought his VHS. VHS, I love that.
		And I used to just take notes on those and watch those all day long.
		I just obsessed about that stuff.
		And my style is based more off the Dutch style because coming up through boss route and stuff.
unidentified		Fuck.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If you guys haven't figured out...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, I can't even hear myself.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If no one's figured out, if you want to be a really good coach, you have to be a psychopath, too.
		Oh, you have to be a little twisted to get what he's figuring outside the head.
		He's always got something going on, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you have to be twisted to be a competitor, too.
		You're an interesting guy because you come off like the sweetest, kindest guy in the world.
		However, I hear training with you is not...
		Not an ice cream sundae.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Alright guys, pick your partners.
		Alright, who's working with TJ? Hey, did you sign the liability waiver?
		Yeah?
		Okay, cool.
		We're good.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Start the round I am always the last one to get a partner.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No one wants to play with me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Do you think that, I mean, is it because you're so amped up and competitive and you only turn it on in competition and when you're in there, you're just in there to go to war.
		You're not in there to just make nice nice.
		You're just in there to go to war and that's the only way to get better.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm super...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's laughing, look at him.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Because he loves it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He gets to watch practice and laugh.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I can watch UFC fights all day long.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He controls me.
		We've been trying to get this controlled aggression that I have because I'm very aggressive when I'm competing because I'm really competitive and I want to be the best in the world.
		So in practice, I want to practice the best to be the best.
		And when things don't work out exactly the way we're supposed to, I get pissed and go harder.
		And that's something he's had to control with me.
		I've learned to control my aggression and turn it on at the right times.
		But it's taken a long time to do that, so everyone's got this name for me as being the bully in the gym.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He goes hard.
		He definitely goes hard.
		But he's got what can't be taught, so this guy has to be controlled is all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's simply a matter of how much damage you take that's unnecessary or give out that's unnecessary in the training.
		But other than that, to have that mad intensity, that is what it takes.
		There's only one way to be a champion.
		You can't be a champion and kind of, well, you know, I'll give it my best.
		You can't.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's other dudes out there like TJ Dillashaw.
		That's the way it is.
		That's what I would tell people whenever anyone talks about dabbling in fighting.
		They say, hey, why don't you have an MMA fight?
		Hey, you know who should have an MMA fight?
		That guy.
		I bet he could kick some ass.
		Listen to me.
		Unless that's what you're obsessed with.
		Unless that is occupying your thoughts 24 hours a day.
		And when people start talking to you, if you don't like what they're saying, you start thinking about fighting.
		Unless that's going on, don't fight.
		Because there's someone out there like TJ Dillashaw.
		There's these motherfuckers out there that are like that all day long.
		And they will get in the same cage as you and light you on fire.
		And there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
		That's some people's journey and they just want to go through the process of a fight camp and do a fight just to experience it.
		So I guess, fuck, relax.
		So maybe if they get the right matchup for somebody who's equally as skilled just to have the event, then it's fine.
		But yeah, definitely.
		You don't want to come across someone like TJ Dillashaw.
		He's a...
		World-class athlete that's dedicated and that will kill you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you could run into a guy like that in the amateurs.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You could easily run into a guy like that in the amateurs.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I had two amateur fights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But I was obviously amateur.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you weren't as good.
		But still, you could run into some, especially dudes that have freaky power, guys that have that LeVar Johnson type power.
		You could run into those dudes.
		Chad Mendes.
		Your head's going to be fucked up for a long time just because you wanted an adventure.
		Be careful, bitch.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think martial arts are a great thing to be involved with.
		But if you're gonna fight in MMA, you better be goddamn obsessed.
		That's why I think this combination of you two is so fascinating to me.
		Because you're both bananas.
		You're both obsessed.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It should be a study.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There should be some scientific studies going on, man.
unidentified		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		And maybe there's some data that could be pulled from the early fights and the coaching videos and stuff like that up until now.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Because I'm curious to see all the improvements and involvements of just the improvements of every aspect of the game.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's so many improvements behind the scenes that a lot of folks don't know about, like how to train.
		There's all these different thoughts and strategies about training at altitude or sleeping at altitude and training.
		Now that's what they say.
		Train at sea level, sleep at altitude, and that has a pretty significant impact.
		And then your diet, guys are like, oh, let's get out the gluten.
		Okay, today we're going to do Tabata training protocols.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about gluten?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think that it's not the best thing for your body.
		It's fucking glue.
		You're breaking wheat down.
		It's turning it into this chewy...
		Like when you eat bread, chew that shit up and feel what it feels like.
		It's glue.
		You're eating glue.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I've never really looked into it as much because I've been able to eat...
		And I eat really healthy.
		The diet makes me feel good.
		And gluten's never ever bothered me before.
		And Danny Castillo's gone on his gluten-free diet and he's really strict about it.
		I always make fun of him.
		I always give him shit.
		If we go somewhere and he can't eat anything, he's like, come on, man.
		I'll pay extra for that gluten.
		Give me extra gluten and I'll eat it.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it's bad for you.
		I've tried gluten-free.
		I was gluten-free for a long time, and then I'll allow myself to eat it once a week, which they say you're not supposed to do if you're really gluten-free.
		You're supposed to be gluten-free 100%.
		But what I think is, it's like a lot of things.
		It's like beer.
		It's like bread.
		It's like cake.
		It's not good for you, but I like it anyway.
		Like, I like a little bit of it.
		I think you should, for the most part, take in things that are really good for you.
		But I think gluten isn't...
		It's just...
		It causes inflammation, and it's difficult to digest.
		Just a little bit.
		Not a lot.
		And for some people, it's a lot.
		Some people have, like, celiac disease and shit.
unidentified		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For those people, it's pretty significant.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Do you feel worse when you have that day?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like, the next day, do you feel worse from eating gluten at all?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I feel like a fat fuck.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I feel like watered down.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I feel like when I'll eat a sandwich or something like that, like a meatball sub or something fucking stupid on my cheat day, and that bun soaked up with spaghetti sauce just sits in my stomach like a rock.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Tastes so good, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So good when it's going down.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For a few moments of simple mouth pleasure, I'll allow myself to feel like shit for 24 hours.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You feel it when you work out, too.
		That's when I feel it.
		It takes a longer time to digest for me.
		If I eat just standard protein, like fish and vegetables, it doesn't take me long to digest.
		A nice plate of healthy fish and some...
		Greens like kale or arugula or some shit like that.
		Two, three hours later, I feel great.
		I can work out.
		But if I eat a pizza, I'm fucked for a while.
		I'm fucked for five or six hours.
		There's not going to be any working out.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Once a week, some pizza.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Now that I eat healthy, I can feel the huge difference in eating bad, but it's because I've gotten into the profession of what I do gives me money, and since I've been blending all my fruit and vegetables, it's insane how much I can eat, vegetable-wise.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If I blend it up in the Blendtec I got, I eat eight times as much fruit and vegetables as I used to when I was wrestling, just because I make a blend once a day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so awesome.
		It's so good for you.
		As long as you mix it up.
		I've been reading about people that do run into issues if they eat all of their meals as blended vegetables.
		If you get a certain amount of oxalic acid and a bunch of different things that exist in...
		In plants, probably to discourage animals from eating them.
		But if you have them in massive doses like that, like over and over again, like spinach, apparently raw spinach, very high in oxalic acid.
		But as long as you mix it up, it's fine.
		And as long as you have calcium in your diet, calcium in your diet sends to mitigate it in some way.
		But there's no better way.
		It's like you're getting mainline of nutrients.
		I drink one of those kale shakes, dude, and I feel like I did fucking, like, two shots of espresso.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm, like, fired up.
		It's crazy.
		I drink it every morning.
		Every morning when I'm at home, I have a green shake in the morning also and blend that puppy up and just chomp it down.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Even back to on it, if you want it to taste good, you just gotta put the hemp force in it, man.
		Everything tastes good.
		You could blend up dog shit and it would taste good.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's true, that's true.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Seriously, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the stevia.
		What we use for sweeteners is this shit.
		The same stuff that I use on my, you thought it was salt, yeah.
		The same stuff that I use in my coffee.
		It's a natural plant extract.
		No sugar in it at all.
		And you just need a tiny little bit.
		It's super potent.
		Like ten times more potent than sugar.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, man, I used to make it taste good, but now I don't even make the kale shake taste good anymore.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just slam it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I make it taste terrible because I give it giant chunks of ginger and garlic now.
		I'll have like a, like seriously, remember what pagers used to look like?
		I'll put a pager sized chunk of ginger and just fucking hammer it!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		In one shake.
		That's in one shake?
		You slam that?
		That much ginger?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm like that turtle dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I have about half of that in a week's shake.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh really?
		No, I slam it.
		I slam it in four or five cloves of garlic.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You probably smell so bad afterwards.
unidentified		I got my garlic intake for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I smell good, kid.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Look at yolk, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I smell like shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I do smell funny.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like garlic?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Did you just train?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, I just ate some garlic.
		Your low taste tastes horrible.
		I don't know.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Why don't you try them, bitch?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let me know next time you're in a tasty mood.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You'll be all right, right?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Next time you're in a tasty mood.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Next time you're in a tate-testing mood, make a video.
unidentified		That's good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Probably get a lot of YouTube vids.
unidentified		It's a mouthful, I'm sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Blah!
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, if you just...
		All you'd have to do is just...
		I would come on the desk and just dip your finger up and go like that.
		That's all you would have to do.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		NG, motherfucker.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No, that's NG, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		NG, motherfucker.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's over.
unidentified		Oh, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's over.
unidentified		That's funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The U2 would break.
brian redban ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure you got the curdled kind where you could just pick it up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, my loads are very normal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Curdled kind.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		This shit took a turn quick.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I drink a lot of water, dude.
unidentified		Oh, that's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm healthy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My loads are quite fluid.
unidentified		It tastes like garlic and...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		This is like back at the academy, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		This is the alpha male crew right here.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Imagine if dudes were like chicks, whereas women have a certain amount of eggs, and then that's it.
		It's over.
		Imagine if dudes were like that, we have a certain amount of loads, you know?
		You're like checking, you're like holding your balls up to the sun to see like where your load line is.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		A lot of people would have blue balls, that's for sure.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I can't let this one go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I gotta save my load.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And then just have the worst stomachache for the next day.
unidentified		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Girls would be like, come on, give me some load.
		You're not worth it.
		You're not worth it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I should.
		It'd become like a gambling effect and everything.
		A little rational thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Guys would go in a tantric.
		They'd go tantric where you'd squeeze it down and never really orgasm.
		Just grab the tip of your dick and like a lighter.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If that was a case...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If that was the case, guys would have more power in getting laid there.
unidentified		That's true, right?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Instead of being on the girl's side of it, you know, like it's easier for a girl, it'd be a whole lot easier for a guy if you only had so many...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Listen, if we all fucking band together, we can make that happen right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We just gotta stay strong.
unidentified		So I heard this theory, right?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You can start this right now with the podcast.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The podcast is powerful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's have a dick union.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just agree.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Everybody agree.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Take back your loads.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Save them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Your loads are important.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're not valued right now in the equation, but damn it, they should be.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Stop wasting them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a key ingredient.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a key ingredient in making people.
unidentified		Oh, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Without the loads, you got nothing.
		That's the problem, though.
		That would be like starting a fighter's union.
		That's never really going to happen, you know, because dudes are like, fuck them.
		That's what dudes would say when it comes to the dick union.
		If we all got together and said, listen, we need to make our dicks more valuable, okay?
		We need to make it harder to get to.
		Let's work something out here, boys.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The first ones are going to sacrifice big time, man.
		The ones that are starting this thing, because now they're the only ones not getting laid to start this whole trend.
		Same as with the fighter union.
		You're the only one not getting paid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They would be the ones who would step in and say, you know, equal pay for equal fighting.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Are they sure?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Are they trying to start something?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, people have in the past, I'm sure.
		It's very difficult.
		My point would be, it's like, even comedians' unions.
		There's never been a comedian.
		I mean, I guess the kind of maybe has been, sort of.
		I think there's something like that.
		There's some sort of a union that they tried to put together.
		T.J. Dillashaw drinks a lot of water.
		He's a healthy boy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's healthy and hydrated, for sure.
unidentified		Do you know who Mike Epps is, by the way?
unidentified		Did you read that he beat up that other comedian?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He beat up a comedian for a joke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's hilarious.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Stole a joke?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No!
		The guy did a joke on his Instagram where he snorted coke and he pretended he was Mike Epps.
		He did a Mike Epps joke.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then Mike Epps and his boys beat the fuck out of him.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
brian redban ▲ ● ▼		I guess he was mocking the Kevin Hart Epps feud.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because Kevin Hart and Mike Epps were in some sort of a beef.
		And Mike Epps was talking shit about Kevin Hart, and Kevin Hart made a video about it and said, you know, you're not on my level and you need to up your ticket sales.
		It's just hilarious.
		Kevin Hart's hilarious.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He is funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know who was, you know, what started it all.
		I have no idea.
		But apparently Mike Epps didn't like what this guy did on his Instagram.
		Have you seen the video he did?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's available.
		You can get it.
		Pull it up.
		It's off of his Instagram.
unidentified		On the guy that got beat up?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		He did a video where he pretended to be Mike Epps with coke all over his nose.
		And then he did a Kevin Hart impression where he's on his knees.
		I mean, it's not the best piece in the world.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Still be pissing people off, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did he take it down?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		People being sensitive.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where is it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not that far away.
unidentified		Okay, this is May.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, just try to find the video.
		Like, do a search on it, because it'll pop up really quickly.
		Yeah, it's fucked up, man.
		Comedians hitting each other over jokes.
		That's the most ridiculous thing ever.
		Especially if it's a guy who does coke.
		Do you do coke, bitch?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying not you.
		If you do, you can't be mad if someone makes fun of you doing coke.
		If someone did a video with me smoking weed, what am I going to say?
		That's outrageous.
		Who are you?
		What kind of fucking bullshit is this?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I was afraid I was going to come back from the bathroom and everyone was getting beat up by Dwayne.
		That's like keeping him under control, you know?
		I was going to the bathroom.
		I was like, I've got to make this quick because Dwayne's going to get pissed in there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is he like a dog that you leave in Starbucks?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're like, shit, please let everything be okay.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Some funny stories about Dwayne.
		When I first started hanging out with him, we'd go on UFC trips.
		He's always on watch of what people are talking about.
		He kind of got this...
		Someone's always talking shit kind of deal, you know?
		And this guy just started working for the UFC and he's giving us a ride to the grocery store to pick up our healthy stuff for the week and to keep it in our room.
		And Dwayne's talking, he's telling a story, and this guy interrupts him a couple times, you know?
		And I can see Dwayne get pissed about it.
		And I only know Dwayne now for like a month, maybe two, and he's at my first fight.
		And I'm nervous, you know?
		Because he comes across really harsh to people, but if you understand his personality, he's joking.
		But it's hard to tell if he's joking.
		And so he keeps interrupting this guy.
		He's like, you interrupt me one more time, I'm going to drop you.
		Oh, no, no.
		He asked us, hey, if you guys keep being rude, I'll drop you off right here in the corner.
		He's like, if you keep being rude, I'll drop you right now in this car.
		And the guy showed up for the entire ride.
		He was so scared.
		Man, we're cool with it now, but he was so scared while we were in the car.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He was definitely scared.
		Yeah, it just comes across.
		I'm never really going to beat somebody up.
		I've had to fight in a long time.
		I'm dead serious about interrupting.
unidentified		It's like a martial arts respect thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People do it accidentally all the time.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But don't do it around Dwayne.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some guys are just not that skilled in the art of talking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's weird little moments where you want to say something and you can't.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Like right now.
		But his manager, it was Mike and it was Mike.
		Jeff.
		Is it Jeff?
unidentified		Jeff, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It was Jeff.
		And I was talking to somebody.
		I was talking to Danny or somebody and he comes up and he interrupted, right?
		And I was like, you keep interrupting me, motherfucker?
		Like, I'm not seriously mad, but like, but seriously, like, let me finish.
		And then, like, you know serious shit, right?
		But anyway, he got, I guess, you know, he thought I was serious.
		Like, he went and told one of the guys, man, is Dwayne just a serious asshole or what?
		And I heard about, like, secondary.
		I was like, oh, man, I'm sorry.
		I was just fucking around.
		So I definitely come across a bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're fucking around, but you're also letting people know that they are interrupting.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they are.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just usually people do it politely and it's like, hey man, hold on a second.
		I got something to say.
		It's like, hey motherfucker.
		Are you going to interrupt me again?
		I'm going to fuck you up.
		Let me finish my story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's some people that are so bad at it you can't even have a conversation with them.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just socially awkward and shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You just go, we're never going to really be talking.
		I'm just waiting for you to finish.
		This is a crazy conversation.
		This isn't a real conversation.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes with my answers, I'll just fucking go off on a tangent and figure out what I'm talking about.
		Actually, I do that quite a bit.
		Sorry.
		Go ahead, Mr. Rogan.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Go on tangents?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's good, though, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's where creativity lies.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're stuck in a predictable pattern.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, tangents are where the wild ideas come from.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
unidentified		Yes, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like holding your balls up to the sun to see where you're...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		See how many loads are left?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where's that coming from?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The universe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is this the video, Brian?
unidentified		This is TMZ talking about it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we don't need to play that.
		Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
		That's going to get us kicked off of YouTube.
		Here's the video.
		Hold on.
		We keep getting pulled off YouTube.
		It's happened three times this month.
		So anytime there's a YouTube clip from now on, I'm not playing them anymore.
		I mean, unless it's something that these guys are not going to put a...
		It's their video.
		They come in.
		We get pulled from YouTube every week.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Every time we play a YouTube clip, either somebody wants money for it or some...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		YouTube's awesome.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I wonder what the deal is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's people who make claims against your videos.
unidentified		Even TMZ, though?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know if they're going to.
		It seems like everybody's doing it.
		Last week was a goddamn nature documentary video.
		A snake killing a crocodile.
		We got pulled off of YouTube.
		It's ridiculous.
		We're getting pulled off constantly for these little YouTube videos.
		So just play that dude's video off of Instagram.
brian redban ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it got taken off of Instagram, but it's up somewhere else.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Huh, that's interesting.
unidentified		Here it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It got took down, huh?
		So this dude made fun of Mike Epps, and Mike Epps and his buddies beat the shit out of him.
		So that's what's going on today.
		Yeah, Mike Epps beat up a comedian for telling a joke about him.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Can't be telling jokes about people sometimes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Here it is right here.
unidentified		Y'all lookin' good in government checkup in here.
		But yeah, Cabin, I said you was overrated, nigga.
		Okay.
		Here's the deal, Mike.
		Before you get on me, get your ticket sales up, pimp.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He beat the dude up for that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Wow.
		I mean, I don't know.
		Maybe he confronted him, and then the dude was like, fuck you, Mike Epps.
		And the dude, too, took a swing at him.
		And then Mike Epps beat him up.
		I don't know what really happened.
		Do you know Mike Epps?
		Nope.
		I don't know.
unidentified		Is he a Laugh Factory guy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I have no idea.
		I mean, I've seen his name up there, maybe, in the past.
		Quite honestly, I don't know the dude.
		I don't know him.
		But I don't know the dude in Atlanta, either, who got beat up.
		But...
		It's just ridiculous.
		If you do coke and somebody hits you, or somebody makes a joke about you, you can't hit them.
		That's ridiculous.
		Aren't you a comedian?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I make fun of people all the time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If it's funny, if someone makes fun of you and it's actually funny, you should be laughing, stupid.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Did you think that was funny though?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Was that a funny video to you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Depends on if he does coke.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know the story behind it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If he does coke, it makes it funnier.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if he doesn't do coke, if he's like mean, he's never done coke in his life, and he sees a video.
		Like, I've been called a coke head before.
		Like, why don't you get more coked up and do the UFC? Like, I always hear that.
		You're coked up when you're doing the UFC. It's called having energy, you fucking pasty fucker.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's called being a passionate human being, motherfucker, not a robot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So maybe if he's never done coke and he saw that, he would go, this is bullshit.
		I don't even do coke.
		And then he'd get mad at the dude.
		But if he does do coke, gotta let that slide.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like you said, why get mad about something if someone's making fun of you?
		If it is funny, just laugh about it.
		But that's why jokes happen about people.
		Like me, Danny tries making fun of me.
		And I'll just go along with it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Danny's the best.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'll go along with it.
		I'll laugh.
		So I don't get to the brunt of it too much.
		But like, Holdsworth, he takes offense to it.
		He gets pissed.
		And so Danny just eats him apart.
		If you continue to get mad about the joke, it's funny.
		We're going to keep doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Castillo's funny.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We've got to get him on the podcast.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He is hilarious.
		Next time you guys come down this way with Danny, bring him by.
		He's a funny dude.
		I liked hanging out with him in Austin.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's fucking funny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was the only time I really hung out with you guys before.
		I really got to sit down and talk to you guys with Austin, besides doing the podcast.
		But Danny, I'd never before.
		Just meeting him at fights, you know?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we'd have to have a good crew.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The whole team, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Awesome crew.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's do it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
		We started our own TAM Radio.
		It's our own little podcast deal, you know, kind of messing around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Team Alpha Male Radio.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You should get Bruce Buffett to announce that shit.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We should, actually.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's a great idea.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would totally do that, too.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He would, for sure.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He loves us, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you see him announce Michael Bisping at his wedding?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's cool.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He announced his wedding.
unidentified		That's cool.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was pretty cool.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but we started one like two years ago when I was an Ultimate Fighter.
		I'd break down each episode.
		It was a pretty cool little thing we started.
		It wasn't anything big, but we got some normal followers, and then Uriah shut it down because he wanted to start his own serious radio show.
		It was going to be Uriah's block party, so he made us stop doing it.
unidentified		What?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		His radio show never happened, and so now two years later, we did our first one again after my fight, and it was the most disorganized crap.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It was like JV of podcasts, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I need to talk to you, Ryan Faber.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't think like that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the incorrect way of thinking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I hate to say that, but what you should do is, if a guy does a podcast, then you do one too, and then both your podcasts feed off of each other and you promote each other.
unidentified		Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's plenty of room for other podcasts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's room for a thousand of them.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He just considered Team Alpha Male as his team, so we're using TAM Radio.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We're using Team Alpha Male.
unidentified		So much!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For him, it's only going to benefit his brand.
		And you guys are a part of Team Alpha Male.
		You pay Team Alpha Male.
		You represent it in the cage.
		You give a percentage of your purse to that.
		I mean, that's like being from Yale and not being able to say you're from Yale.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Makes sense.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		I mean, we're the Yale lawyers.
		No, you're not allowed to say that.
		What the fuck are you talking about?
		I'm in Yale and I'm a lawyer, you know, or whatever.
		You know what I'm saying?
		I mean, it just seems like it would only benefit him to have you guys doing that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it would put more attention on the team, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's why we started it up again.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We're going to try to, you know, try to make a run at it and see how it goes.
unidentified		I don't know.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We got some funny guys on the team, so...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Uriah should do a serious one if he wants to do a serious one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But there's nothing wrong with you guys doing one with fucking Joe Benavidez showing his nipple rings.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No, there is something wrong with that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It could be ridiculous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's not.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne is like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He doesn't like the nipple ring.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I get a girl for all wrestlers.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so wrestlers, we're all freaks.
		Wrestlers are freaks, right?
		So he comes to our team and we're a whole team of freaks.
		Like, you know, joking around, gay jokes.
		Yeah, exactly.
		A little bit too close to each other than you should be.
		He's like, man, guys, knock this stuff off.
		He's like...
		Completely anti-whatever we're doing.
		It makes him uncomfortable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, wrestlers to kiss you on the mouth just to freak you out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They'll slip you in the tongue just to freak you out.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We tried to get Gif to kiss Joseph on the way into the cage because Frank Muir's dad always kisses him before he goes in the cage.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		She was like, come on, Gif.
unidentified		On the mouth.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You've got to throw us a kiss on the mouth.
		We're going into the cage before we fight, so we've got to make out a little bit.
		Gif was like, are you kidding me?
		I thought we were serious.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome, man.
		He's coming up, right?
		He's going to come up for a couple days.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a weird thing about wrestlers is that the attitude and the intensity that is developed in wrestling rooms, it's not like anything else.
		The amount of hard work that you have to do to be a successful amateur wrestler is really incredible.
		So the amount of stress...
		That's involved with being a wrestler is also pretty nutty.
		And then the amount of one-upsmanship.
		Because you're around a bunch of fucking savages, and every savage wants to be known as the sick fuck.
		You know, like, there's like, you know, I thought I was a sick fuck until I started training with Frank.
		You know, Frank shit in some guy's lunch pail.
		You know, there's always something.
		And a lot of it is like pushing each other and feeding off of each other.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, man.
		Cal State Fullerton when I wrestled, the locker room antics were ridiculous.
		Let alone, like, dude, I'm telling you, it's crazy stuff.
		Everyone's one-upping each other, not only in the gym, but in the locker room as well, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But there's always one dude who takes it too far.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Way too far.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Who would that be at the academy?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		At our academy or when I was wrestling?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Maybe Danny.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Castillo?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Danny takes it too far, man.
unidentified		He does.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He makes people almost want to cry.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's good, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's good.
		I've seen him and Justin Buckles seriously ruin someone's career, I think, man.
		We had this boxer that came into our gym, Ortega.
		Awesome boxer.
		Awesome.
		And he got so good at MMA so fast.
		Was doing awesome.
		Double legs.
		Jiu-jitsu was catching all quick.
		He was like a thug though.
		He grew up on the streets.
		Everyone respected him.
		We got in the gym and he's beating Danny up.
		Danny's in the UFC and Ortega's getting the best of him in the gym.
		And then we go on this trip down to Southern California to go train and we hang out with Ortega for like five days straight.
		We find out who he is and how like...
		I don't know.
		He's just...
		Mentally weak kind of you know, and so they started making fun of him breaking him down and And they broke him down so hard for five days straight Then when we got back to the gym like everything fell apart for him His dog died got bit by a rattlesnake He crashed and totaled his car and then like just started losing fights and ever since Danny found out how like Mentally weak he was and how he could like take advantage of him.
		He started just kicking his butt in the gym Mentally broke the dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Mentally broke him down.
		I was like, Danny, that's messed up, dude.
		You just ruined that guy.
		It's like, I know, I feel bad.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The mental game feels bad.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, yeah, this kid was awesome, dude.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Ortega was the man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He was looking good in the gym and then just got broke down.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is really bizarre.
		That's a fascinating psychological study.
		I mean, I hate that a dude had to suffer to get that data.
		But it is quite interesting.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like, Danny respected him so much when we were practicing, he was getting beat up by him.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But then once he found out who he was, I mean, Ortega's awesome, but once he found out that he was just some other kid that was easily made fun of and took it to heart, then he just broke him and beat him up in the gym, too.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's really weird, man.
		But it's that kind of shit.
		Like, people would say, that's cruel, that's horrible, that's...
		But the mental game is just as important as the physical game.
		If not more.
		You're kind of doing mental sparring when you're around a bunch of savages.
		You really are.
		I used to remember snide comments that guys would say right before you would spar.
		Dudes would say weird shit to you.
		You're like, what is going on?
		What kind of negative weird shit is it?
		And they're planting seeds of doubt in your head.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We don't have any of that at the academy.
		The team here, man...
		It's really a special time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Except that Ortega fella.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Ask him about it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We saved his life though, man.
		We've turned him into so much of a better person.
		He's got his own gym.
		He's getting married.
		He's having a kid.
		His gym's successful.
		He's on the right path.
		Things happen the right way for him.
		He's successful now.
		He's a great boxer still to this day.
		He was good, but I don't think he could have made it to an elite level to make a living off of fighting.
		So we kind of fast-tracked the failure of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		Or maybe he would have had to rise from the fire, figure it out, and get his mental game in the same area where his physical game was.
		Some guys can do that.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You can make gains in both areas, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's harder, it seems like, to make gains in the mental area.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The physical is obviously very difficult as well, but there's something about when a guy loses his confidence, it's very difficult to get that confidence back.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's one thing, too, with all these guys here at the academy, or at Timo Famao.
		They're all super mentally tough because they're winners in wrestling, and that just spread on through, and now they have that sickening work ethic with the proper technique.
		Now everyone's just helping each other out.
		It's a mastermind group of martial arts.
		We're involved in the current stage of the martial art evolution right now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Without a doubt.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And wrestling is so tough that it makes fighting for me so much easier.
		Like the struggles I had through wrestling and how hard it was on me, how hard it was on my body.
		And we compete for, you know, six to nine months straight.
		Like you're in the gym grinding for that long straight and then you have this break.
		To where as fighting you get to peak yourself for each event, you know.
		Wrestling, you're wrestling every week and you're grinding it all throughout the whole season and then you have to get to the end of the year and stay at top form.
		So many people get hurt and it affects the way that the NCAAs go down.
		I feel like the smarter coaches don't have their guys go as hard in the beginning of the season and then peak them for the end, which they should do.
		I wish I would have known that more.
		Now that I'm a professional athlete, I wish I would have known how to peak myself for wrestling like I do for fighting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you have a guy who works with you the way Dwayne does with striking with your conditioning and monitoring your heart rate?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm slowly getting into that.
		I've had to go back and forth with where I'm training for my strength conditioning.
		I found a new guy for this first camp.
		The first time I've used him was for this camp for Burau.
		I wanted to put some size on.
		I've been doing a lot of strengthening for when I was far out.
		Because I knew Burrell was a big guy and I wanted to be able to use my muscle against his.
		But yeah, I still want to get more into that.
		I feel training outside the gym is really important to staying healthy instead of just grinding and beating yourself up every day with the martial arts end of it.
		You see GSP doing all this stuff to keep his body healthy and strong and I feel like that will prolong my career if I can do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, strength training especially.
		It seems to protect a lot of guys from a certain amount of injuries, but then again, it causes a certain amount of injuries.
		You know, there's a lot of guys get injured from strength and conditioning work, and then they're broken down by the time they get into the gym.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just doing it wrong since they're smart and doing drills.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I need to find a coach that knows MMA as well, because I don't think, like a lot of strength and conditioning coaches don't realize how hard you're working every day.
		I'll go into the gym and I have two hard practices and I end my day with strength conditioning because I don't want to hinder my performance in the gym so I want to make my strength conditioning last.
		And then he's trying to kill me in that workout too.
		So it's like, man, I'm doing three workouts that are ridiculously hard.
		Maybe on this day we should go lighter or cycle it off my training schedule and know more about the sport.
		And this guy Ish I've been training with does a really good job of it.
		Almost goes too hard but I've kind of had to help him peak me.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that's good about communication with a good coach, too.
		Making sure you're pushing them just enough, pulling them back if need be.
		That's one thing, too, here at Tima Farmell.
		I have a coach's dream.
		These guys work hard.
		The only thing I need to do is pull them back.
		They have no problem going hard.
		There's no babysitting in my job at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's so fantastic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the biggest complaint you ever hear about trainers.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No babysitting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's having to babysit a talented fighter that doesn't like to train.
		You always heard that about, you know, I hate to bring up his name, Rampage.
		You always heard that about Rampage.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was a great fight when Rampage was on.
		I mean, people talk a lot of shit about Rampage.
		I never talk shit about Rampage.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially the Pride days.
		That dude earned his status for life.
		That slam of Ricardo Arona when he's locked up in that triangle.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That was sweet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The way he knocked out Kevin Randleman.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, the Rampage from the Pride days, you know, that guy, just for that.
		Forget about knocking out Chuck Liddell.
		Forget about his UFC fights.
		Just from that.
		But, you know, Rampage, like, it's a job and he gets paid a lot of money to do it, but I don't necessarily know how motivated he is at certain fights.
		Yeah, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's hot and cold.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dolce had a problem with it and other guys have had a problem with it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I've heard stories, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he's so fucking talented.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you could get a guy like him and get a brain and the kind of motivation of, you know, a younger Rampage, that's where it's...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		This is a perfect example right here.
		A world-class athlete with the proper information, good training partners, and...
		World champion.
		This is the cutting edge martial art right here.
		There's nothing better than this human being right now as far as martial arts ever.
		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		But don't tell him that, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's too late.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And getting better.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're getting better for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Having new things.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's been awesome for me to live through these guys.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The way you spun out of his turning sidekick, too.
		Every time he threw that turning sidekick, you used his body.
		On the turn, you were with him the entire way.
		It's like you were just a half a step ahead of his movement all the way around the curve.
		It's amazing.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I seriously had so much fun in there.
		It's a nerve-wracking thing you're doing, right?
		You're getting into a cage to fight it.
		Pound for pound, the best guy in the world.
		I mean, let alone any guy getting in the cage with, you're nervous, obviously, just to perform.
		But I had so much fun that I soaked it all up and just kind of...
		I don't know, the fight was in slow motion for me.
		I mean, I felt like the fight was almost an hour long, and I could have let it go...
		I feel like I would have gone...
		Even though, obviously, I wanted that belt around my waist and wanted it to be done as soon as possible, I feel like it could have gone so much longer just because I was...
		Obviously, I was in the zone to where, like, professional athletes would pay so much money to get, obviously, you know?
		It's just...
		It felt amazing.
		And every time he threw the spin kick, I just saw it.
		And he's got a fast one, but I would just see it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There it is right here.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look, you can see it right here.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		See, I actually could have taken his back a couple times when he threw those spin kicks.
		And I just, for some reason, I just kept striking.
		It's just, I don't know, I'm almost...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You're natural.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the article that I was bringing up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's on Fightland, which is a Vice website.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, those guys are awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the dude's name is Jack Slack, and it says, How TJ Dillashaw Killed the King.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I did see this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a great article.
		It's really good as far as the technical aspects of striking.
		Broke it down very well in a way that it's really difficult to break down, and very difficult to do so, especially if you're trying to do it Doing commentary because there's a lot of aspects of movement that he's taking into account about loading up and about firing one, two shots at a time, being predictable.
		And now other guys have kind of exposed it.
		He showed his fight with Eddie Wineland.
		Wineland made him move a lot when he fainted and whiffed at bare air.
		And also with Brad Pickett a little bit.
		He showed some of that as well.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		With his brawling.
		Yeah, so this actually came out before my fight.
		Obviously, the new stuff with me up there is new.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, this came out after your fight.
		This is the images.
		No, this is how you killed the king.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		There was an article just like this.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think it might have been from the same person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it was.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That broke down exactly how to beat Burrell.
		It was before my fight.
		And he was going over things that...
		Obviously, Burrell's an awesome champion, but these are little holes that you can maybe figure out on him.
		And it came out before my fight, and Buckles had me watching it in my room the week of my fight.
		And it was funny, because the guy who ever did it was really good, because...
		We're already drilling all the stuff he was talking about.
		It went hand-in-hand with what me and Dwayne were already practicing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's another article called Killing the King.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's amazing because this guy gave you some advice, some great advice.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It was good stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it does show the Killing the King one is equally interesting and equally well-informed.
		He's excellent.
		Very, very good writer.
		But that's another example of what I was talking about, this new breed of writer and fan that's coming along.
		These people that have been involved.
		Don't show him losing, fuck.
unidentified		Dickhead.
unidentified		What the fuck are you doing?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's got to shrink my head a little bit.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I've got to fit through the door when I watch that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If there's the wrong shit to show, he'll show it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I was just scrolling it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and you paused on it for a long time.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I was looking to see what happened.
unidentified		It looked like you injured your leg.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We can show you if you want now.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The Vice Fightland was by far my favorite interviews I did leading up to the fight.
		I did a big PR tour and I went and talked with them and then they were there the day before my fight or two days before my fight.
		I think those were my favorite interviews to do.
		They were cool dudes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the Vice guys, well, Shane Smith is a friend of ours, and he's the founder of the whole thing, and it all trickles down from him.
		He's an interesting cat.
		Very, very nice guy, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's been on the podcast a few times, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, and he's a huge, huge fan of the UFC, and just a guy who's just experienced almost too much.
		He's almost been around too many different places, been too many different parts of the world.
		He gets overwhelmed sometimes.
		Just talk to him.
		He starts talking about the nuclear conflict between Pakistan and India and global warming.
		Just jumps all over, huh?
		Sounds like Manhattan's going underwater.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, he's just traveling all over the world to fucked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, we went to Chernobyl shooting nuclear wolves with rifles.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		So all his talk is negative for the most part, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily.
		He's a really friendly, sweet guy.
		But I think maybe he sees a little too much.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I gotcha.
		Yeah, you're exposed.
		Yeah, you're going to be a part of your environment, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just like a fighter is not supposed to spar three times a day every day.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're probably not supposed to see crazy shit.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Good thing he came into our life and changed it up because that's what we used to do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you really change that up?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Well, not three times a day.
		We'd spar like three times a week, I think.
		Sometimes, not always, but before we got there, we did a lot more sparring, which, looking back on it, I don't think is the healthiest thing, but it definitely got me a whole lot faster really quick in my gym, because I had to, so I wasn't going to make it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you came in, they were sparring three times a week.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How did you change that program?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I just asked for the guys to spar hard once a week and still controlled sparring though with that.
		I give them four rules.
		I ask them to follow four rules.
		Show up on time.
		Get better, get tired, take care of your partner.
		They do those four things and we're good in all drills, especially in sparring as well.
		So you just got to make sure that you take care of the guy because he's going to be there to help you the next day and so on, which we understand that, sportsmanship.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And decelerating on shots when you can.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and decelerating on shots when you can.
		Yeah, definitely not knocking each other out.
		If you got him hurt, then relax a little bit.
		Let him off the pellet.
		Don't finish him.
		If it's a body shot, just touch the head a little bit.
		If it's a head shot and you rock him, now you're just going to touch the body.
		Or what I ask my guys to do also is if they hurt the guy, now if I hurt you, now I'm on defense.
		Now you've got to fight out of it and I'm just working on defense and things like that.
		Just make sure he's not keep getting punched, punched, punched.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's smart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Keep working, but work on something different.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you've got to switch it.
		If I rock you, I'm on defense now.
		You've got to fight out of it because that's what's going to happen.
		That's the likely scenario.
		So I try to take a whole bunch of typical scenarios.
		Fuck, relax.
		Typical scenarios that happen in the fights and pull them into the gym.
		That's it.
		Just watch it slow down.
		I'll set a goal and create a handicap.
		That would be the handicap, the handicap with me.
		I can't throw back.
		The goal is for you to fire back out of you being rocked.
		Or we're going to counter right hands today.
		The goal of the drill is for you to counter my right hand.
		The goal is not for me to punch you in the face, but get it close enough to the realistic aspect that he has to properly react to come back with something.
		So you're just slowing things down, which is the same case for Jiu-Jitsu.
		Look how slow Jiu-Jitsu is, which gives you more time to react.
		Plus, you're not getting punched in the face, so you're not freaking out.
		Well, if I can take away that fear of not freaking out and getting punched in the face, then I can focus on the proper techniques and what needs to happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you make it a part of muscle memory so that if you're in a scenario where things are getting wild, your body is automatically going to move that way in the first place.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Correct.
		I want to have that muscle memory, that subconscious protection reaction.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of the things I found interesting about your system is you've also taken into account people that are scared to get hit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you've sort of developed this way to slowly build up their confidence.
unidentified		Yep.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And how do you apply that?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		By, you know, okay, we're going to start today, and we're going to go 50%, just nice and light.
		Or at a pace where you're not going to be scared.
		If I'm getting scared, like, hey, can you slow down a little bit?
		Or I need to make sure I'm there to tell him to slow down, because I don't see the proper reactions out of this guy.
		See, he's still freaking out, so you need to slow down.
		I'm going 50%.
		Okay, if that's your 50%, motherfucker, then go 10%.
		You know guys look right watching the guy things like that But then also just setting the goals to like put the guy was back against the wall and this guy just throwing straight shots And again the goal of the drill is for him to defend the straight shots not for me to punch in the face But even though you know it's coming you can relax and don't talk as fast as me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the punches Ernesto Hoost was talking recently about Mr. Perfect.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Love that dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		One of the greatest kickboxers of all time.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Beautiful to watch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was talking recently about training and about how some gyms, they knock each other out in the gym.
		And he's like, that's ridiculous.
		That should never happen.
		He's like, you don't need to do that to save it for the fight.
		And, you know, he's one of the greatest kickboxers ever.
		But he's like, you're wasting yourself in the gym.
		Because there's certain gyms, you know, like kickboxing.
		It's like Mike's gym.
unidentified		It's Mike's gym.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I heard about this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Reputation for just wars.
		They go to war.
		Melvin Manhoof and Badr Hari throwing fucking rocks at each other.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I learned so much from this place.
		King's MMA, Rafael Cordero's gym.
		But man, I went down there and I think I've never been scared to get into there for the second time.
		You go in there, it's full out war.
unidentified		Really?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You're going as hard as you possibly can, seeing people get dropped and stuff.
		And you have to be on your A game.
		And the next time I went in there for sparring, I was nervous getting in there.
		Because I was going with bigger dudes too.
		They let you spar with whoever.
		And there was a guy throwing knees at my head, and it was insanity.
		And I actually got to spar with Rafael Cordero, and he dropped me like twice to the stomach with his push kick, man.
		He's got like seriously the best push kick I've ever felt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's a great Muay Thai guy.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like dropped me, like I'm on my stomach like, oh!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		This was my first fight in the UFC and he just tooled me up.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The sport needs more masters of the martial arts like that.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I just don't know if I agree with that shoot-the-box way of training.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't like that either.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It seems like it's not the best way anymore.
		It works with some guys.
		You know, some guys it works for, but I think that there's certainly something to be said for his results.
		I mean, you look at the guys that he trained.
		Anderson Silva, fucking Vanderlei Silva, Shogun, Ninja.
		I mean, just...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I went in there and kind of fit in perfectly because I was just going super aggressive as well and went really hard, which I'm glad I learned to not do so much anymore.
		But it was funny because Babalu's in there.
		Instead of using hand wraps, he's just got his hands duct taped.
		Just hard as a rock, duct taped underneath there.
		He's got his shin guards duct taped on.
		He's just a scary dude.
		After I got done with practice and how he was talking to everyone, he had to point out how much he loved my sparring because of how hard I went.
		It should have been the opposite.
		It should have been like, you know, you need to control it a little bit.
		You're kind of beat up on this guy.
		But instead, he was like, I love it.
		You need to come back here more.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Babalu's an animal.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's an animal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's an animal.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Ask the guys at Toma.
		Let's not get...
		Let's save the brain cells for the fight itself and let's stay smart.
		Training is foreign.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, the different approaches.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some guys just fucking stomp the pedal to the metal, and when the wheels fly off the car, alright, I guess we're stopping here.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's Vanderlei, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		But he's not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this Vanderlei thing is crazy that's going on right now.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, I heard he did for a random drug test, and he bounced.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They tried to get him with a random drug test, and he said, I'm fucking out of here.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Ran out of his house, I heard, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think it was the gym.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think it was the gym.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he was like, where's your paperwork?
		Who are you?
		I gotta go.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think Chael's the one that said he ran, right?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Who knows if he actually did run?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Most likely he didn't really run.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who's chasing Vanderlei?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What would you do if you caught him?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Tell him a good job.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you run quick.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Don't kill me.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, really, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's the fucking Nevada State Athletic Commission piss collector guy?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know if he can run, probably.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, that is the last guy you want to chase.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's hilarious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And so he said he had some, he made a video, said he's got some excuse for why he didn't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But he's got to work it out with the Nevada State Athletic Commission, whatever it is.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They took testosterone off, right?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No one could be on test anymore?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No one is.
		Well, he was never on it.
		He didn't have an exemption, so he wasn't on it officially.
		Don't you look at me like that, Dwayne Ludwig!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm just stretching, man.
		I got this thing in my back.
		Okay, what's that, Mr. Hogan?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think he's probably had a vitamin or two in his day.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's healthy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think he's...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He works out.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He must work out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Supplements are involved in some of his primary development, especially early in the day.
		You look at the pride fights.
		He was a motherfucker, dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Pride was so special.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Man, I want to...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I got to watch more of those fights.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I got to watch more pride fights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We have these pride gloves, and I wanted to ask you about these because I asked Brendan Schaub about them the other day.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that there's a way to make a glove that has less finger pokes?
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And is it a pride glove?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because a pride glove has a little bit of a curve to the hand.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think that's the answer, because Booster, they made a pair of gloves that you can't open your hand all the way.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I thought that was perfect, because if you can't open your hand all the way, then you're going to be less finger pokes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's all like this.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's just like a little cup, like a little mitten.
		I mean, your fingers are still exposed, but you just can't open your hand all the way.
		It was sewn on the side, so you just couldn't do it.
		There was a little hinge there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think that would actually be better for grappling.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For the most part, you kind of grapple with that monkey grip anyways.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Except wrist control.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Except when a guy like Verdum, Verdum uses a lot of wrist control with his triangles.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you use your thumb.
		I mean, the thumb would be fine.
		You can use the thumb the exact same way.
		But if your hands are curled, I mean, you're going to grab the wrist the same way.
		Your hand's still going to be curled.
		You know, you're going to be able to grab it like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, do you really use individual finger manipulation?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		You never do this.
		You never interlock your fingers.
		That's something that's true, right?
		That is true.
		Vandelay did used to clinch his fingers together.
		But do you think the correct technique, tie-wise, is like this anyway?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I like palm over palm.
		Oh, yeah.
		But if you want to do this, you can.
		But I just...
		I don't know.
		I just think it's a stronger grip.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's a stronger grip as well.
		Like, I've seen guys get away with weird grips and takedowns.
		But, you know, when you lock a guy's waist, the gable grip just feels so right.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Nice, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It just feels like there's so much...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come here, world champion.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just let me just snuggle you, sucker.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I just love this little guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You've got so much power in that position.
		It's such a good position.
		But, um...
		Yeah, if they could have something where the fingertips are covered, where you can't poke the eyes.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Well, they weren't covered in the gloves I've seen.
		Maybe you have to cover them, I'm not sure.
		But they were pretty much just like this, but it just had a hinge on the side so we couldn't open it all the way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that you could have it so that the fingertips are somewhere or another covered with like...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A softer piece of leather.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Maybe this neoprene.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Something along those lines.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just something that keeps...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That should be custom fit gloves to be perfect.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Then I guess each fighter would have to get custom fit gloves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How hard would that be?
		You've got a mouthpiece.
		If you have a mouthpiece, why can't you have custom fit gloves?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They'd have to be measured to the day of the fight for the weight cuts and such.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because some fingers are different lengths.
		It just seems to me like this...
		At least we should be exploring other options.
		How many fighters have to get pulled in the eye?
		I think this right here is cool.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think if they couldn't open their hands all the way.
		Constant curve.
		Yeah, boom.
		I think that would be it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Jon Jones move.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Watch, try to poke me in the eye.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's hard, right?
		Jon Jones does that a lot.
		And he's always criticized for it.
		Look, he's got the greatest physical advantage I've ever seen inside the octagon.
		And he's the smartest ever at using it.
		I mean, he's the best at keeping guys at the end.
		But damn, there's a lot of eye pokes involved in his fight.
unidentified		Yeah, there are.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Definitely with him for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he could get away with the same strategy and same style if the fingertips were covered and it would be fine.
		If there was a way to touch foreheads, he'd still be able to throw those elbows and punches.
		I mean, he's not trying to poke dudes in the eyes.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That would change things on grabbing the wrist and hands, wouldn't it, from the distance?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it also would make S-grips, you would actually have more friction.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you had an S-grip.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If you didn't break that grip.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you had like some sort of a suede or something like that, like something with a little bit of traction to it, once you lock that up, you'd actually have...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Some texture as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		As long as, I mean, your fingers...
		The only difference would be you wouldn't get as much hand because you would have like a little meat in between.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep, yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it wouldn't be able to fully lock in.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's like a wrap anyway.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's always a little bit tricky to grab with the wraps around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Anything that makes your hands fatter.
		But have you tried those Bellator gloves?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bellator has an Everlast that's like curved.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Well, there you go, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it also has more padding over the metacarpal to offer more support on impacts and to think that it'll protect...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You should start keeping stats on broken hands and eye pokes and see who has more, obviously, in either...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Bellator had, like, the first day they used it, they had an eye poke.
		So the eye pokes are still gonna be there.
		But nobody's broken their hand.
		So they had, like, a gang of people break their hands before, but with these new gloves, I don't believe they've had a hand break.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		How long have they had them for?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They've had them for a while.
		Wow.
		I think there was like 11 fights, and out of those 11 fights, no one had a handbrake, and that was like the first time they'd ever had that.
		I should pay attention to that and give a better accurate assessment of it, but I love that they're doing something.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		These are our money makers.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Keep them safe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There should be a lot of consideration taken to this stuff.
		When you see the same thing happen over and over again, what's the definition of insanity?
		Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
		When you have these people that are getting poked in the eyes over and over and over again, it's like, this isn't the only way we can do this, guys.
		There's other fucking ways.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Goggles.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How about you see guys train to get arm bars when they have boxing gloves on.
		Giant fucking 16 ounce gloves and they'll take arm bars.
		They'll try to do rear naked chokes.
		They'll do like a half ass rear naked choke.
		You can grapple.
		You can grapple and still not poke your ass fucking arm bars.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'll be sparring Uriah and I'll throw like a jab or something and he'll catch my glove in between it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Catch it and stop me and then hit me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The first guy I ever saw do it I think was Josh Thompson.
		He's a clever veteran.
		He choked someone And grab the inside of his own glove.
		And you're allowed to do that.
		You're allowed to grab your own glove.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Are you allowed to hold it on your own glove?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can't hold another dude's glove, but you could choke the fuck out of a guy with your glove.
		Like, hook underneath it.
		They might have changed that.
		I don't believe they have, though.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think how much harder it would be to fight your hand off.
		Like, say I did the gable grip.
		People would find my hand off a lot easier than if I was hitting all the way back here.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you were tucked deep in that wrap underneath, you're holding onto a leather cord.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		After I watched my fight, in the first round, I could have went for the Japanese necktie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you think so?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I could have went for it.
		I went on top for some ground and pound and was rushing it, and he came into my half guard.
		I could have possibly went for the Japanese necktie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That would have been crazy.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, especially because the Onnit...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The video.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Also, they offered me an extra bonus if I were to finish my next fight with the Japanese necktie.
		That's awesome.
		I told Aubrey, I'm getting Mizugaki with that.
		Obviously my fight changed, but I could have gone for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That would have been hilarious.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I love the darts anyways.
		I saw that there as well.
		I could have gone for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For folks who have no idea what we're talking about, there's a technique called the darts.
		It's a very common choke.
		When a guy has an underhook on you, his arm is essentially wrapped around your body and you can get your arm underneath his arm.
		Your forearm goes underneath his armpit and it slides up past his neck.
		Then what you do is you put your other arm over the back of his head and he clasps a whole to your bicep.
		It's very difficult to put all those things together because most guys recognize when the arm is underneath the armpit that you're in danger.
		So someone developed a technique called the Japanese necktie and what it allows you to do is It allows you to clasp your hands together over the back of the head and never cinch it up on your bicep.
		But still, it actually becomes an even more effective technique because you trap the head in the center of your chest and it's a nasty neck crank.
		And TJ and Danny Castillo and I were all doing this in an On It video and we were going over the technique.
		And so that's when On It came up with this idea of having you have a benefit.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because I've already fallen in love with it.
		I've done it in the gym all the time now, too.
		Because I go for that darts, and like you said, people try to defend it, and then you can still hold on and get that choke.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Such a great move.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It'll also give you a blood choke and hurts really bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It hurts bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I tap immediately when I get locked up in that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Danny's neck was so stiff after you guys rolled that day, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's right, yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He tried manning out.
		He's like, all right, go hard on this.
		You got him in the umoplata, and then you turned him over and got him in a little neck crank.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can roll, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's trying to fight out of it.
		For a good week, he's like, dude, my neck.
		I hear so bad.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		What did he finish this guy with in Brazil?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He got the head and arm or he had Anaconda or Darce?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Huck.
		He just finished somebody in Brazil.
		I think a head and arm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well Danny's just so not interested in being on the bottom.
		He's not interested.
		He's a dominant wrestler.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		All these guys.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All these smashers.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		His top game is so hard.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I just wanted him to see it and I was teaching it to Aubrey's friend Whitney.
		I was showing her the technique.
		She's really into jiu-jitsu, so I was showing her some rubber guard stuff.
		And I just wanted to show it on a strong guy like Danny.
		Like, watch.
		This shit works.
		Try to get out.
		Lock a guy up in mission control.
		I'm a middle-aged comedian.
		Yeah, the hell you are.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Go talk shit to this comedian.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Your joke sucks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The reality is I'm a middle-aged comedian.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The reality is you're a fucking ninja.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I can't believe how flexible you are.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You're pretty stout, but your legs are so flexible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, I stretch my whole life.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We're martial artists.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I make sure that I stretch.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I can't do that rubber, I can't do the rubber, I mean, I could try to, but to the extent you do rubber guard, I can't do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I can do full lotus, I can do double lotus, I can flatten my legs out like that, lie on my stomach.
		But I make it, I make it work, you know?
		When I lift, especially if I lift legs, I stretch out for 40 minutes, man.
		40 whole minutes after I train.
		Especially with legs.
		You know, you can't fuck around with that, because that was my bread and butter, was my kicking ability.
		Like, all throughout Taekwondo, of course, and then when I started kickboxing, this thing that separated me from a lot of other guys was the dexterity.
		Have you seen this fucking guy who's fighting in glory now?
		That is Raymond Daniels?
		Have you seen this dude?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I know what you mean.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Holy shit!
		He hit a dude with a sidekick, jumping, turning sidekick in the face, and knocked a guy out in glory.
		That was smooth.
		Wildest kick combinations in a kickboxing match I've ever seen.
		He dropped the dude with the right hand, the guy went down, and he hit this jumping sidekick, spinning sidekick in the air right in the dude's face.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Pull that up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Raymond Daniels glory KO. Greatest kick KOs ever.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		When did you start training in martial arts?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When I was 14, I took karate.
		Well, I took Kung Fu when I was really young, but I got serious when I was 14. I took karate, and then I went to this Taekwondo school from 15 on, and that was Jay Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston.
		From then on, I was obsessed.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Nice, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		From 15 to like 22. Man, I want to see him wheel kick someone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was holding that pad.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Dude, right?
		I tried the pad.
		That's right.
		You got to get some more videos going.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I would do some with you, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Let's do it.
unidentified		Hell yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I would love to.
		Here it is.
		Watch this dude.
		This shit is ridiculous.
		This guy's a bad motherfucker, and he's a perfect example.
		Why isn't it working?
		Here it goes.
		Watch this.
		Look at that.
		Are you fucking kidding me?
		Watch that shit again.
		I mean, that is incredible.
		That is the wildest Taekwondo shit I've ever seen.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Man, do they show that in slow motion after this?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but look how good that is, man.
		That dude is wicked.
		Give me one more of those.
		Show that again one more time.
		God damn, that dude's good.
		But it's like those type of techniques we're just starting to see now in kickboxing and MMA. Look at this, touch, bang!
		Jumping, spinning sidekick to the mug.
		I mean, and the dude just goes right on the dick.
		Bam!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Look at that.
		The referee was on that.
		That's Oscar Martinez.
		He's a really good Muay Thai instructor in Colorado.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, this fight was in Colorado.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this was in Denver.
		I mean, the guy's incredible.
		But you're starting to see those techniques.
		And those techniques have always existed in Taekwondo tournaments.
		But when you factor in leg kicks, when you factor in takedowns, it's very rare that you see them.
		But you're starting to see those things emerge now because once you master all those other things, then you have this one thing in your arsenal that the other guy doesn't have.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And once your takedown defense is good enough, you can throw that stuff.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Once you're comfortable with being taken down, you can throw that stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And when you're comfortable enough with your striking that you get that extra looseness, just that extra gap.
		And there's some guys that just have wicked spinning techniques.
		And if you have those techniques...
		Did you see Honey Jason land that spinning elbow?
		Couple of times landed on that spinning elbow in his fight this past weekend.
		Sweet timing!
		It's just another added element.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's a tricky thing to train, too, with elbows, obviously.
		We didn't want the pads and such, but you've got to watch it in the spar and just do little drills and everything, like ground-to-pound drills to work the elbows.
		But I'm curious to see what spinning elbow he threw and how he trained it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was beautiful, man.
		It was beautiful.
		He slipped it in inside of a guy's jab.
		Like, he slipped the jab...
		Like, slipped the jab and went right into it.
		Bam!
		I mean, it was really nice timing.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But you're seeing more of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're seeing more spinning backfits.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Left elbow?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wheel kicks.
		It was a right elbow, I think.
		I believe.
		I believe.
		I might have to see it again.
		Oh, outside the jab?
		Yeah.
		I'm pretty sure he slipped to the left and landed the right elbow.
unidentified		Okay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You know...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, slip to his right, land on the right elbow.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		So things like that, we just bounce combinations and things off each other, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The game, we just take off on some combinations.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You should watch that.
		There's a couple of moments in that fight, especially in the first round when he landed that elbow.
		I was like, that was one of the nicest executed spinning elbows I've ever seen.
		I've seen a lot of those.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I was too busy doing a Dwayne Bang seminar.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We didn't get to watch the fights.
unidentified		We were doing a seminar.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where were you guys?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That was good.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The team out from LGM at Ultimate Fitness.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it must have been a mob show.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was good.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We had a good turnout for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The champ is here.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we did belt rankings and stuff too, so it was pretty cool.
unidentified		That was awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Does anybody have a black belt in your system?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I have one black belt other than me.
		I guess I gave myself my own black belt, but it's Wally McDonald in Rochester, New York.
		He's a partner with Chris Herzog, who's one of the main guys in 10th Planet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's awesome, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So there's only one black belt?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		One other black belt other than me, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		And then one current brown belt, which is TJ Dillashaw.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Damn, TJ Dillashaw's the only brown belt?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yes, sir.
		Just caught it two days ago?
		Two days ago, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's huge, dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think it's important to set the goal ranking and the structure.
		Everything with the curriculum, everything from the system, it's a steady progression for people to follow through on things and be committed to goals as humans are, right?
		We're just committed to goals, goal-oriented.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had a conversation with that about a dad who was thinking that belts were bullshit.
		His kid was taking martial arts, and he's like, you know, belts are kind of nonsense, though, right?
		Like, if a guy can beat your ass, he can beat your ass.
		I'm like...
		Yeah, but no, because it's really good for, like, you get a, like, when I got my blue belt, I remember I was on a TV show, but I was happier about getting my blue belt than, like, almost anything else.
		I was like, man, I'm not a white belt anymore.
unidentified		Woo!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm learning jujitsu!
		I remember that, and that, as a grown man, was a big deal to me.
		But as a kid, that's giant.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		To show that a kid can progress and they learn, they get new belts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sense of accomplishment or something.
unidentified		It's huge.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's huge.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Boss just gave me my black belt a couple months ago, man.
		I was happy.
		I'm still happy thinking about that, man.
		That was just awesome to get it from Boss Rutten.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Black belt from Boss Rutten.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was giant.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That was giant for me, for sure, man.
		I'm such a fan of the sport and a fan of him and just love martial arts and came up through the traditional martial arts honor and respect.
		I've been doing kyokushin karate since I was 8 and then Thai boxing when I was 15, so I just...
		Martial arts is me, man.
		That's why I'm here to teach and be a martial artist.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love that Boss Rutten is really honest about his assessment about fights, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He keeps it real.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I love Boss.
		The John Jones eye poke thing, he was really honest about that.
		And the way he said it was really fascinating because he goes, look, he's very relaxed in that cage.
		He's making things up.
		He's doing what he wants to do.
		He's not in a panic.
		So if he's doing it, he's poking in the eye, it's either intentional or what he's doing is causing it.
		He's aware he's causing it.
		He's not changing it.
		You know?
		And he's like, you know, I think the guy's a great fighter, but this is what I believe.
		And I'm like, wow!
		I mean, that's what he always does.
		He keeps it as real as real gets.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's an honest human being, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Agree with him or disagree with him, you will get 100% what Boss Rutten thinks when Boss Rutten is talking.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's one reason why we had a strong connection too when we were training because I believed he knew what he was doing and when he would ask me to do a technique or a combination it was from his heart and it was something that he chose to tell me because it fit my style.
		So we had a great combination, a great relation.
		That's what I feel with TJ and I. It's freaking awesome.
		I feel like the bond Boss and I have, we have that as well.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's not going to bullshit me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you learn anything from Boss about, like Boss is pretty open about the fact that he kind of redlined his body.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he goes hard, for sure.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		This guy too, man.
		He did too much.
		He shouldn't have been a 55-pounder.
		He was going too hard all the time.
		He was too OCD about training.
		Being OCD for a coach is alright.
		You're going to make all your athletes better.
		Being OCD as an athlete, you've got to be careful.
		You have to have people around you to make you slow down.
		Uriah's done a great job with me.
		When I got in the gym, I wouldn't stop.
		I'd be in there.
		I lived in the gym.
		That's all I did.
		He's like, hey man, get an escape.
		Get out of here.
		Go do something.
		Have some fun.
		Don't be so in here always killing yourself because it's going to hinder you.
		It's going to hinder your body and your performance.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How valuable is having a guy like Uriah as a friend and a mentor?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And how weird does that put you in a position because you guys are in the same weight class now and he wants to be a world champion.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean...
		It's crazy, dude.
		He's a good dude.
		I mean, you saw after he lost to Hinton Burrell, that quick stoppage that he was willing to give my name a shout out while one of the worst things that could happen to you, you know?
		And just shows this great character.
		That's tough for me because I've looked up to the guy.
		I've copied him.
		I've done a lot of stuff for my career because of him.
		And it's going to be tough if that situation ever comes about.
		I mean, I don't want to have to fight the guy, you know?
		I mean, he's brought me up in the sport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It seems like a very honest and open approach that you're taking, though.
		It's like there's no ego involved there, and the way you're looking at it is very healthy.
		You're being very honest about him being a mentor, you even copying a lot of his attributes, his positive attributes.
		It's a tough situation.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For sure, man.
		Like I said, I looked up to him.
		I owe a lot to him for where I'm at.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm talking to you guys right now because you're out of paper.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm sitting here because he texted me one night and said, can you come be our trainer?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		So, I mean, I owe a lot to that guy as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is the weirdest thing when it comes to fighters where they train together and then they have to fight together.
		Even if it's on a short period of time, like I was talking to Brendan Schaub the other night.
		He trained with Arlovsky quite a bit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And now he's fighting him in less than two weeks in Vancouver.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, that's a little bit different situation even to that because, I mean, yeah, sure, you train with him a little bit here.
		I've done every day of practice underneath Uriah.
		For four years now, I've been at Uriah's gym nonstop.
		I haven't gone anywhere else to train for an extended period of time.
		I've been there.
		You know, it's going to be tough.
		We're good friends.
		Everyone in that gym, we've created a little family to where you got that guy's back.
		Uriah's fighting July 5th.
		I would love to go off and take a huge break and relax a little bit, but I've got to come back and help Uriah out.
		I've got to get in the gym, help run some practices, and give him some looks and stuff because I care if he wins or not.
		Since we all care about each other that much, we're going to hold each other accountable for being in practice.
		You saw how crazy they went when I won the belt.
		They were front row going insane.
		That made me tear up more than even me actually winning the belt is going back and watching Fight Pass and seeing those guys react to me winning.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		So, yeah, it's a crazy situation that we could be put in, but, you know, I mean, they want the drama behind the fights, so, I mean, maybe if they're willing to shell out the cash, maybe me and Uriah will have a smile on our face while fighting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that would be crazy.
		Yeah, you're the extreme opposite end of the spectrum.
		There's the Arlovski and Schaub guys who have respect for each other, but they weren't really good friends.
		And there's you and Uriah, we're almost family.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you're in that situation where you fight in the gym on a regular basis.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if the UFC really wants us to watch this fight, just come to practice.
		You know, just bring a camera crew in.
		That's one thing about me and Uriah, too, is that we both got this ego thing, too.
		And we'll throw down.
		I mean, sometimes we have some sparring matches that look like brothers fighting.
		Like, just get after it, man.
		Just a ball of craziness going everywhere, you know, and it's fun.
		I mean, that's why we've gotten so much better is pushing each other that hard.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I gotta go watch UFC fights every day, once a week anyway.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This must be a weird position for you to be in, to be the guy with the video game controller and to see these guys adopting your techniques and getting better.
		We've talked about it on the commentary.
		Many times, there was a jump.
		Those guys were always murderers.
		From the first time they were in the WEC, all those guys were murderers.
		Benavidez has always been a killer.
		Super slick.
		Got a lot of different weapons in his toolbox.
		But then, a difference in his striking.
		A difference in Chad Mendes' striking.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You know, all of them.
		Even if you didn't watch the fights, if you just look at the stats alone, you can tell he's made a difference.
		You don't even have to watch the fights to see much better we've gotten.
		Just see the punches landed or us finishing fights on our feet now.
		That says it all there, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we gotta figure out a way to keep you guys together.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is ridiculous.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's definitely a special time in martial arts history.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It really is.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He has to be taken into consideration, Dwayne Ludwig.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't just fucking fly off to Colorado.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We had a practice the other day, and he's like, alright, my last practice is Tuesday.
		Justin's like, oh, of next year, right?
		No one wants him to go, man.
		We've created this serious magic there at the gym that we don't want him to go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that shit needs to be worked out.
		We'll talk later about that.
		That shit needs to be worked out.
		We're going to talk about this later.
		The other guys in the gym, Chad Mendes is about to fight Jose Aldo for a second fight.
		That's another really intense, really interesting fight.
		Clearly gotten better.
		Are you going to work with them for this camp?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It depends.
		I already finished my lease in my house because I just made a decision to leave June 12th because that's when we signed the leases over.
		So in order for me to stay, I'd have to stay for two more months.
		And I got some things happening in Colorado right now with the business in my house out there.
		So I got to figure some things out if I can stay.
		I'm not looking to move twice.
		If we could stay in the house that I'm currently renting...
		Then just extend the lease, then I would have stayed easily.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just make some phone calls, Dwayne Love.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		we're going to make we're going to make for the world title yeah do you know how crazy it would be if Chad under your tutelage wins the world title too I don't think he needs me, but I think his chances are better with me.
		I want to be there.
		The date was set before his title was announced, I think, for me to leave.
		I'm not quite sure how much to say about this situation, but...
		I didn't pick the date.
		I understand.
		But I'm trying to help him stay for sure.
		He's definitely good.
		He was the guy I thought was going to get the boat first just because I've seen him closer to the rankings than the other guys.
		But then obviously this guy has to go ahead and get badass and overnight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jump the line, son!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		And then of course it was Benavides and then Uriah and then TJ now and now Chad just went in opposite rotation than I was thinking anyway.
		His guy that I felt would get the title shot and get the title first.
		And I do believe that he can be all though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Benavidez is going to probably eventually get another shot.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I hope so.
		Man, man, that was my low as far as being out here at Tamafuel for a year and a half.
		That was the lowest part, lowest thing for me.
		Like that, that, that.
		I passionately care about my guys and to see them lose and lose like that, that hurt my feelings for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For folks who don't know, Benavidez got caught with the right hand early in the first round and got knocked out by a guy in Mighty Mouse Johnson who's probably one of the, you know, at least top three guys, pound for pound in the world.
		But you know, Benavidez, when he's at his best, is right there as well.
		That Tim Elliott fight was wild.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's bad.
		I thought he was going to win the fight, man.
		Or the title fight, I thought for sure he was going to win the belt.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		His mount is like a goddamn mountain on top of you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That mount is just boom!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		All these guys.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Boom!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He locked on top of Elliott and you were like, whoa, this is a crazy mount.
		There's levels of mount.
		There's some guys that, like Damian Maia in his last fight, he's got that ridiculous mount.
		Damian Maia gets on top of you and it's just thump.
		He just locks down on you and you're like, you're not bucking that guy off of you.
		And Benavidez with that...
		He gets one arm anywhere near underneath your chin.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		All these guys, man.
unidentified		It's incredible.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Well, then it's his legs, too.
		He's got strong legs.
		He calls it the Joe Constrictor, obviously, right?
		But he traps both your arms or one of your arms.
		It just depends.
		If you have one hand trying to fight that choke, you're screwed.
		And so he does such a good job of trapping it with his legs.
		He's got such good body control on that.
		And that's why I'll never get caught in a guillotine anymore, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because of him.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Because of him in favor, man.
		Those guys are killers on the neck.
		I'm sure.
		I got the best choke defense ever.
unidentified		I'm sure.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's what they do with the progression of all these guys, man.
		It's just the whole iron sharpens iron.
		Of course, I'm getting a bunch of credit for it, and I'll take all of it, of course.
		But, man, these guys, I mean, one guy gets better and it just shows off to the next guy and the next guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you said it best.
		You have a bunch of race cars.
		They were already race cars.
		I mean, it wasn't like you came around to guys that are just, you know, they've only done marathons and they've never thrown a punch in their life.
		No, you're getting, like, the elite of the elite, and you're training them.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just tuned him up a little bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That fight with Tim Elliott was the first time I ever saw a guy tap with his feet.
		Both of his arms were completely trapped.
		It really was like a fucking viper.
		Like a snake.
		Like an anaconda.
		Like choking someone to death.
		Just got on top of him and squeezed the fucking shit out of him.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wicked, wicked ground.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That was like one of the craziest fights I've watched.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The energy that Elliot brought out on that was insane.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He's a gamer, huh?
		It was tricky to game plan for him.
		It was tricky for me to create what I had to ask Benavides to do the things I thought were going to be successful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's strong as shit, man.
		He's strong as shit, and his endurance is incredible.
		And he can take it, man.
		You see that fight with Bagoutinov?
		He fought Ali Bagoutinov, and they went to war for fucking three rounds.
		He took everything but the kitchen sink from Bagoutinov.
		I mean, Bagoutinov was teeing off on him.
		And Bagoutinov was a better striker, was smoother and quicker, but Elliot never stopped coming after him.
		Never.
		He's a zombie.
		And he's very physically strong, too.
		Like the Gaudenau fight, ragdolled Gaudenau around.
		He's strong as fuck.
		Good luck, man, for a little dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Is he fighting Dimitris now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bogutinov is.
		Yeah, Bogutinov is fighting in less than two weeks in Vancouver.
		That's the main event.
		That's a good fight.
		That's a good fight.
		I want to see if that guy can keep it up in the fourth and fifth.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Right, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, because Mighty Mouse, you better be in fucking shape.
		You better bring your lunch.
		That guy never stops moving.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
		It's like all the Timofo guys, man.
		They have endless energy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you ever foresee a possible super fight, you and Mighty Mouse, one day?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I would love that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can Mighty Mouse go up to 35?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I can make 25. Can you really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I can make 25. Holy shit!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm a light 35 pounder.
		I've been forcing myself to get big.
		As big as I can possibly get is 155 pounds.
unidentified		Wow.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Because I'm lean.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		During camp, if I'm just not trying to get big, not doing the strength conditioning, I'll be like 148. Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think Mighty Mouse walks around at?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how big he is.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		35, 40?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He probably at his biggest, he probably gets 20 pounds over, I bet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At his biggest?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that normal for most guys?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Probably, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it a percentage of body weight more than it is?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe a percentage of body weight, too, because the bigger guys can lose more weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's easier for them to lose it.
		And it's also how lean you stay throughout the year.
		I mean, I stay really lean as possibly as I can, and so that's why I'm weighing as light as I can.
		Right.
		If I were to put some fat on, sure, I can get up in the 60s, but that's useless weight.
		I gotta lose that again to start camp.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you got, like, Damon Wayans in The Great White Hope, remember when you got that big belly who's an NBA champion?
		He was gonna fight a white dude.
		He didn't worry about it.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He was like, oh, okay, sucker.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He was gonna fight a white dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		But that's what's cool, too.
		These guys are close to weight, so when they're in the gym, the focus is to get better at the martial arts and not just to lose weight, you know?
		So it definitely makes a difference also.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That is a big goddamn deal, man, the weight cutting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a real dangerous part of our sport.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I think people cut way too much weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It affects the testosterone, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, it does, right?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And when you hear about guys cutting, you know, 30 pounds, like the Gleason Tebow's of the world, he's the most ridiculous.
		That guy weighs 155 at the weigh-in for like five seconds, and then...
		When you see him the next day, he's 185. That's insane.
		He's so big.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't even feel like I can move if I gain that much weight after weighing.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how he does it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if there's a difference to the composition of each person's body.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some people can get away with it and some people can't.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's got to take like four IV bags or something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know what he did, but I've heard of four.
		I've heard of guys taking blood out, weighing in and putting the blood back in their body.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was back in the dark days.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hotel room, fucking intravenous blood replenishing.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm not trying to do that at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this is some darkness.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Once you start using needles and replenishing fluids, what are we doing exactly?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way, though?
		Here's the question.
		Here's the two gloves.
		Here's the difference between the Everglass gloves and more padding on the top, and that padding apparently is helping people keep from breaking their hands on impacts.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Then did there less knockouts?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
		When they did the K1 Max, the middleweight, they specifically pulled in 8-ounce gloves, 8-ounce Reyes, which is just padding on horse hair.
		They just moved the hair out of the way, and it's just tape, gauze, and two pieces of leather.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		There's no padding.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There's way less padding in a Reyes glove than there is in the MMA gloves, for sure.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But there's no padding on my shin, son.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I know, that's true.
unidentified		Son!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Elbows, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Elbows as well.
		Goddamn.
		Especially, like, you're seeing in Lion Fight more than you're seeing in Glory because those guys are allowed to throw elbows.
		Guys are getting cut up.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Man, I only landed, like, a good five or six elbows in that fight.
		My elbow hurts so bad still.
		I was, like, tender to touch it, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of guys have to get shit.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's like a bursa sack.
		Like, you know?
		Like, it burns in there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, did you get it checked out at all?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No, not yet.
		I should probably get it checked out.
		Seriously, I haven't had any time to do anything since I've been home.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's been a mad whirlwind?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's been awesome, but it's been crazy.
		Just, you know, obviously interview after interview, TV shows, radio shows.
		I mean, I'm loving it.
		I mean, obviously it's the attention you want because this is how you get paid more and this is what you've been working for.
		But it's been a whirlwind, man.
		It's been craziness.
		I'm more busy now than I was in camp.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way to have it so that guys fight at their actual weight?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there a way?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I doubt it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No matter what people are gonna do something to get the advantage somehow.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Well, I guess the weight classes vary now.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Or weighing in an hour before you fight.
		Or not even, weighing in before you walk out to the octagon.
		Step you on the scale.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What would you do if someone was over?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's why they have to be 24 hours to deal with all those issues out of the way.
unidentified		That's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that would be interesting, man, if you could put it on the fighter, like where the audience would know that when the guy got on the scale, he shows it to the whole crowd.
		203.2.
		What the fuck?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That just couldn't happen, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, or they have a backup fighter, you know, because Chael Sonnen did not make weight, you know, and then another guy gets up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mauricio Shogun Hua is on weight.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just sitting over there, put the drink down.
		Here we go.
		He would, though.
		He would, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Imagine if they had two guys.
		You had a, like, when you do Broadway, you have someone who's a backup singer.
		What do they call them?
		An understudy?
		Yeah, an understudy.
		Like, you guys don't know Broadway.
		So I guess that's what they do.
		They have the actor, and then there's an understudy for the actor.
		In case the actor takes sick, the understudy can always step in.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If I was the understudy, I'd be putting Visine in that guy's water, like, fucking with him, you know what I mean?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like, oh, you're sick, I'm in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What does Visine do to your water?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Supposedly it gives you the shits, like, ridiculous.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It makes you feel like flu symptoms.
unidentified		Really?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Supposedly, yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You put Visine in someone's water, it'll mess you up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shouldn't have probably broadcast that on the internet.
unidentified		Oh, shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now assholes all across the country are like, I'm going to make people sick.
unidentified		Give them Visine.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Visine cells go up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then spar with them and mentally break them.
		Danny Castillo's at the fucking CVS. Oh, man.
		Danny's going to get me, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Danny's so funny, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shaking up a big bag of Visine.
		Yeah, yeah.
		How much time do you have now before you'll go back into training again?
		And when do you think you'll have the first defense of your title?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
		I gotta obviously go and talk to Dana with that and stuff too.
		False.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It says false.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Alright.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The internet's false.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You've got Mythbusters I guess or something, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's just the internet.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Who's got Visine?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Do you want to drink some?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This is a way, though, if you didn't use Visine, you could use something else.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Obviously some nasty shit.
		Good, let dudes drop Visine your shit now.
		You'd be like, nothing.
		Iron gun.
unidentified		I'm fucking immune to that shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm immune to that shit, son.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You think it'll be Burrell?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I doubt it.
		I mean, if I would have knocked him out in the first round and finished him then, I think I would have got an instant rematch with him.
		But I feel like because I dominated him for five rounds that they'll make him work his way back up.
		At least that's my thought.
		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But isn't it about business?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At this point?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you decided to have a rematch with him in Brazil, like that's what his coach is saying, you know, if he's man enough, come down to Brazil.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Andre Pednero said that, right?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got to respect that he has to say that.
		Of course he's going to say that.
		Dwayne would say that too if it was your title and he took it from you.
		You know, come on Sacramento, bitch.
		You know, this would be said.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So all that aside, you know, from a business standpoint, if you can get out of Brazil alive, I think that would be a good move, no?
unidentified		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Vegas?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Better Vegas?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'd rather fight Vegas or somewhere like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're the champ.
unidentified		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true, huh?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, Brazil's, I love Brazil.
		I went down there on vacation, loved it, went down there and fought.
		You know, it was alright.
		I feel like the fans, so I'm not saying that the judges do it on purpose or anything, but I feel like the fans play a huge part in scoring cards down there.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but look at you, there's been some bad decisions against Brazilians in Brazil.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, okay, Phil Davis and Lyoto Machida.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I did not think that Phil Davis won that fight.
		I thought it was a very close fight, but I thought Lyoto Machida won it.
		So did I. I thought if it was in Brazil, for sure Lyoto got the nod.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But when they gave it to Phil Davis, I was like, wow, that's interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I wonder if maybe they hear that they're biased and they're embarrassed by that, so they try to fight against it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I don't know, but...
		You're the champ, so Vegas it is.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I do know that the referees and judges should all have to train or be martial artists.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100%.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think could be done to improve the scoring system?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know with your mad mind, you probably sat down and thought about that as well.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just to bring in a martial artist to understand the system, being educated on that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But do you think the 10-9s are just too prevalent?
		Guys get knocked down.
		The first round of your fight was a fucking, for sure, a 10-8 round.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 10-8.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How many guys put a 10-8, though?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Did you even look at the cards?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not one of them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not one?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's insane!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And another crazy thing is, is one of the judges gave the second round a brow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's insane, too.
		I heard about that, too.
		But the knockdown, that you fucked that guy's world up in that round, that's as close to getting stopped as you can get and not get stopped, and you didn't get a 10-8.
		Well, then the system's broken.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That should be a 10-8.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just like when Danny Castillo dropped Edson Barboza in December in Sacramento.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That wasn't a 10-8!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Well, Edson Barboza won a decision.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If it would have been a 10-8, it would have been a draw.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He beat the fuck out of Edson Barbosa in that first round.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, rocked him with that right hand and pounded on him for the whole round.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		How's that not a 10-8?
		Total domination.
		TJ's first round should have been 10-8.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no doubt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They need to do more 10-8s.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		So that should have been a 10-8 for sure, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've had conversations with people about 10-8, 10-9 rounds, and I just don't get it.
		Like, somebody told me that the first round of Frankie Edgar and Gray Maynard was a 10-9 round.
		I go, what the fuck are you talking about?
unidentified		Gray Maynard hit him with everything but the goddamn kitchen sink.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Had him falling over backwards.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, twice dropped news back in one round.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what they do.
		Do they have meetings and they all get together and they say, okay, this is how you score and so you should look for us as what goes on?
		Or are they just pulling people in off an office cubicle?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, they have a new guy who's the director of the Athletic Commission now.
		Let's see if they change things up at all.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Call me.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'll change that shit up for you.
unidentified		Dwayne Ludwig coming with a bang system.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		At least offers my guidance anyway.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's all I can do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, for folks who don't know, we stole a system from boxing.
		Boxing has a 10-point must system, and we just sort of adopted that system for scoring.
		But I don't think it's comprehensive enough for MMA because there's so many different rules, or so many different techniques, rather, that are in play, and you have to be subjective about what is more valuable.
		In boxing, a punch is a punch.
		There's left hooks and jabs and right hands.
		If a guy lands harder punches and more punches, he's clearly winning.
		But in MMA, it becomes subjective.
		If a guy lands a hard punch, but you take him down and almost guillotine him, who won?
		Who won that exchange?
		It's very tricky.
		If a guy lands a good jab, but the other guy fucks him up with a leg kick, a lot of people won't count that leg kick.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a leg kick would count over that for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It should.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Get hit with each of them and then you'll be able to know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the thing.
		Some guys have said, like, there was one judge, I'll leave him nameless, but he gets clowned around all the time on the internet, but he said leg kicks don't end fights.
		Like, are you fucking crazy?
		Has no one ever leg kicked you?
		That's the only way I can...
		I cry when my massage lady rubs my IT band.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Exactly, dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		This bitch goes into my IT bands with her elbow and I'm ready to...
		I'm in agony.
		You think about a guy like Pat Barry slamming fucking shins into there.
		He stopped guys with leg kicks.
		Edson Barboza stopped two fucking world-class MMA fighters with leg kicks.
		Including Rafael Oliveira, who's a fucking long-term MMA fighter.
		He's a real veteran.
		Stopped him with leg kicks.
		That's so dumb.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But those won't count as much as a punch sometimes.
unidentified		Oh man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Even a punch that doesn't even rock a guy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		See, you just gotta come back to people being martial artists and training and understand the true title of each strike.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just let all the athletic commission people fight each other.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just give them gloves and just strap them off.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's one of those things.
craig jones ▲ ● ▼		You have to be able to speak the language to understand it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And if you If you just know the words and what the words mean, you're not going to understand them in the context of the flow of the movement.
		It's like if you taught me a bunch of words in Spanish and then a bunch of people were talking, I'm not necessarily going to get the gist of the conversation.
		Even if I know what those words in Spanish are and go, oh, okay, he said, fuck your mother.
		Your mother's a whore.
		Puto, that's a whore.
		Puto, okay.
		I got it.
		I know what he said.
		That's essentially what's going on when you're seeing these guys and they're judging fights.
		These guys, they don't understand the flow.
		They don't understand who's in danger.
		They don't understand a transition.
		They don't understand what's going on.
		Like, oh, he's in a dominant spot now.
		This guy's super close to being finished.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The only problem I see with Athletic Commission people training is if they train somewhere that a guy's fighting from that gym.
		They can't train anywhere where fighters train, so they'd have to...
		How do you do that?
		How do you get them to train somewhere else?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There's a million academies, though.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There's a million academies.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You have state Athletic Commission training centers or something?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, something like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's no doubt.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Or even in a way, it's a business.
		It's just how it is.
		You can't sway the decision either way.
		You've got to be a professional.
		But of course, that would come into play.
		I see that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's no doubt.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think that could be an issue, but guys should be examined, and when something like that comes up, they should have a conversation with them.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Teach me a class.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Show me your martial art experience.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you see a really bad scorecard, that guy should be forced to sit down and watch a fight and explain what he thought.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what did he judge?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've had conversations with people that gave the first round, GSP Hendricks, they gave that first round of GSP. I said, let's watch that fight.
		Let's watch this round.
		You tell me how he won that first round.
		Did he win it because he didn't come anywhere close to getting a guillotine?
		Did he win it because there was a takedown for a brief moment, they were scrambling on the ground?
		Or do you want to look at damage?
		Look at the fact that he couldn't take Hendricks down.
		Hendricks was pummeling him with left hands to the face in the clinch, battering his legs with knees.
		Do you not see those?
		What's going on here?
		Does no one ever need your leg?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The judges, they don't watch the TVs, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They do sometimes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We had it set up in Nevada in a lot of the fights where they're allowed to use models.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I feel like they should.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Very important.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, think about stuff you couldn't see if you weren't able to watch the TV while commentating.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I miss it all the time.
		I miss strikes.
		I try to watch it live as much as possible because I feel like, first of all, It's the coolest shit ever to see live.
		And it would be ridiculous.
		I have the greatest job in the world and I'm not even allowed to see it live.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I have to look at a little TV. Not even a big one, a little one too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a fucking little ass TV right in front of you.
		And when I'm watching it, sometimes there'll be a moment where the guy's back is to me and he'll throw a punch and the guy's in front of him and the guy drops.
		And you can't see what happened.
		And so you have to watch it in the monitor and check it.
		But for a judge, for the longest time, they didn't have that.
		So say if a guy jumps, jumps guard and is attacking a Kimura and has got a guy's arm locked up and is starting to pin it.
		If you're looking from the wrong position and you don't understand Jiu-Jitsu, say if you're on the other side and you're the same level as the cage and you're all the way on the other side of the cage, you can't even see if that guy's arm is getting jacked.
		There's shit you're not gonna catch.
		I've actually talked to judges who do train who told me that other judges have said to them in the middle of a fight, what is he doing?
		What is this?
		What's going on here?
		Which is fucking crazy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's the highest level of the sport.
		The highest level.
		It's being judged by people who literally don't know what's happening.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which is crazy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It goes back to they need to train or do seminars and be accountable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And even the people that know aren't using the points.
		It's 10-9.
		10-9.
		Everything's fucking 10-9.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, you gotta die in the cage to get a 10-7.
		I mean, what happens?
		How does someone ever get a 10-7?
		Yeah.
		What happens?
		What has to happen for it to be a 10-7?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That could have been a 10-7.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No question.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Should have been.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Should have been a 10-7.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know the exact scoring by each and every judge, but I had a conversation.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I heard they called it 10-10.
		Is that crazy?
		That's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I had a conversation with a judge who was arguing with me that it was a 10-9.
		He was actually arguing.
		And he's a judge.
		I was like, this is the craziest conversation I've ever heard.
		I can't even talk to you.
		You're a crazy person.
		It's got to be quantifiable, because a guy can just squeak by.
		There's oftentimes rounds where you go, I'm going to give it to Ludwig.
		It was so close.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'll take it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they'll do a 10-9 Ludwig.
		But it could have been a 10-9 this guy, too.
		It's just so close.
		And then there's Gray Maynard-Frankie Edgar first fight, which is like, come on.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		On those really bad scoring decisions, when they really mess up, how does that person not lose their job?
		That's a good question.
		Just like with any other job.
		If you're working at OfficeMax and you mess up someone's giant printing operation or whatever it is, you're going to get fired.
		Why don't they get fired for making a horrible decision?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Part of the problem is that in order to get fired, you have to admit you fucked up.
		So you have to admit you hired someone who was incompetent.
		So if you fired an incompetent person, then they have to review that person's employment record and go, okay, how long has this guy been employed by you?
		And let's look at some of their other fights.
		That happened with the Pacquiao-Timothy Bradley fight.
		Everybody was fucking so angry at this one judge that she resigned from being a judge.
		But then they started looking at her past, and she made some fucking ridiculous calls.
		Oh, wow.
		Really bad, bad, bad decisions.
		And you're like, what the fuck is going on here?
		They don't want to admit that they hired an incompetent person.
		And Kaiser was fucking really, really defensive about it.
		Like, I brought it up several times that they have terrible judging.
		And he would, instead of that, he would, like, bring up fights where I thought a guy won and the consensus was that the other guy won, like, online on the underground or something like that.
		Didn't talk about it, like, in a very rational way.
unidentified		Like, well, yeah, well, you get wrong sometimes, too, and your opinion's not right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, we're talking about, like, real obvious travesties of justice.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And he would be in denial about the need for change.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They'd have to take into account people's gambling, and maybe if they're betting on the science and odds, things like that, too.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That'd be interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what people were alleging and inquiring about when it came to this one particular boxing judge because some of the decisions were so egregious that people were like, what is – because there can be money made, and what folks don't know is there's a bunch of different options that you could bet on when you bet on a fight.
		You could bet on over-unders.
		You could bet on unanimous decisions as opposed to majority decisions.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you could conceivably bribe someone to the point where they would make a bad decision and that way the person would still win.
		So it wouldn't be too much of an outrage like Emmanuel Pacquiao dominating Timothy Bradley.
		Still win, but you give it to him.
		One guy gives it to Bradley and this way this person gets a chunk of cash.
		Manny Pacquiao still wins the fight, but then when it comes down to the betting, it's not a unanimous decision.
		It's a split decision.
		So someone bets a split decision, they fucking clean up because they bribed a judge.
		Not saying that that's happened, but that is conceivably one way you could do it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But when you get a decision like that Pacquiao-Bradley fight where Bradley beat Pacquiao and everybody was like, what the fuck?
		No, Bradley didn't win that fight.
		Everybody was going crazy after that fight.
		You watch that fight, Manny Pacquiao out-boxes Timothy Bradley.
		It's pretty clear.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, 100%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, you always gotta wonder, how is it possible that 99% of boxing experts have one opinion, but yet people who are professional boxing judges fuck it up.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Subject to interpretation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Unquestionably, right?
		But in MMA, I think it's a lot like with his Jack Slack fellows.
		There's guys like that out there that really know their shit.
		And those are the guys that should be judging.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		They should have to pass an IQ test.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I guarantee that guy's smart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, how many goddamn judges are there?
		I mean, three for fight, but how many of them total?
		Is there 20?
		Is there 30?
		Boy, if you had a big conference and brought in superfans from all over the world and figured out who knows their shit, let's make them watch a fight, you tell me what's going on in this fight, and really an extensive, really exhaustive process, you could have an amazing...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I got my buddy Mike Temple who watches the fights of the guys and does a breakdown for me or does a breakdown for them as well.
		It breaks down TJ's strengths and weaknesses and then also breaks down the opponent's strengths and weaknesses and how we can do to capitalize on these things.
		So I get looks from other people as well.
		My buddy's a super fan and he'd be an excellent judge or referee.
		Maybe not a referee but a judge for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think there would be a lot of guys like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of guys like that.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's me, man.
		I love breaking film down and just figuring out ways to do things.
		You know, it's fun.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no doubt.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But the thing with you, though, is that you'd have to watch the fight sober and you'd have to watch the fight stone.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Spaceship!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Three ways, and on AlphaBrain.
		When you watch a fight, what are you looking for?
		Are you looking for specific moments in the fight where you see vulnerability?
		Do you look at it one way, the first pass and the second time?
		Do you look at it more in detail?
		Like one time look at it offensively, one time look at it defensively?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I look at it offensively, defensively, what they're doing, which way they're stepping, which of course when it strikes, how they react to certain combinations, what they do with their idiosyncrasies, what they're doing when they're tired, when they have their wings, when they're feeling confident.
		There's plenty of ways to look at it, look at the fight, but I always look at it with my guys winning and where the holes are going to be.
		If a guy is good, let's say if a guy's good at a left hook, I want to do something to make him throw the left hook.
		That's a perfect analogy, right?
		When Dan Hardy dropped me with a left hook, right?
		But I try to pick up their strengths and then make them do their strengths.
		Henne Burrell's spin kick, right?
		He's really good at it.
		Well, let's make him do it so we already know, we already expect it.
		We're making him do it so we're actually one step ahead.
		Things like that.
		But as far as bringing down the fight itself, there's plenty of things you can pick up when watching the fight.
		There's the guy, he was supposed to fight holdsworth first but can't switch to Chico.
		But something big with him is In the middle of the third round, in every fight, if it's a subconscious thing or not, he breaks mentally.
		He breaks.
		This is the middle of the second one.
		Which fighter is this?
		I forgot the guy's name.
		He's a Korean or Chinese guy.
		He was originally supposed to fight Holdsworth.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He's a good-looking Asian dude.
		I forgot his name.
		I don't remember his name either.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I forgot his name.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		But anyway, he fought Chico Camus in Milwaukee.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Beat him with takedowns.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It was a close fight.
		In the middle of each fight, in the dead middle of each fight, he physically broke.
		I don't know if it was mentally or physically.
		So it's just things like that.
		The guy, we can capitalize on him dropping his jab.
		We can come over the top of the right hand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jungkook, Kang?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Him.
		Yeah.
		There's idiosyncrasies that people do, whether they're aware of it or not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think sometimes people see the finish line and they start to slack off?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it is?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You mean like TJ didn't do?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like TJ didn't do at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		TJ hit the gas.
unidentified		I see it!
unidentified		I'm going to kill him!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, you downshifted.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		So he wanted me to come out in the fifth round, obviously move my feet faint and be safe, obviously.
		I had to fight one.
		And for me, what I did in that fifth round was slow for me.
		I came out, I think, 30, 45 seconds.
		I didn't engage.
		But as soon as he started coming at me, it's like I can't...
		I mean, if I'm going to be my best fighter, I don't want to relax too much.
		I don't want to be like, alright, I won, kind of chill, defense mode, because you're going to get caught.
		You're going to get beat because you're not at your best.
		I need to do what I do best, and that's how I not get caught.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a very important point.
		Pull up that fight, Brian.
		Pull up the final sequence where TJ knocks out Burrell.
		You didn't do anything differently than you had done from the first round.
		Every time you saw an opening, you just kept attacking, kept attacking, so you stayed sharp.
		That's an important thing, to not slack off when you see that finish line.
		People have a tendency to do that, right?
		They see that finish line, they start thinking.
		Instead of fighting.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Get in defense mode.
		I feel like, so Danny Castillo did this against Barbosa.
		He went out there and demolished him the first round.
		And then the first thing I was, was scared because I knew Danny was going to sit on a lead.
		And I was afraid of that.
		Obviously Danny knows that now, and he's aware of it, but that's what he did.
		He went into defense mode.
		He won, and he was like, alright, I got this fight.
		Just be safe, you know?
		And that hinders your performance.
		Then he let, every time Edson Barbosa landed a kick, his confidence meter went back up.
		He had him broke.
		If he would have came out there in the second round and did the exact same thing in the first round, the fight would have been over.
		He would have finished in that round.
		But instead, he let Edson come back in the fight, let him land a couple spin kicks, let him land some leg kicks, got his confidence back, and the fight changed, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?
		When you watch that first round, too, that was sort of a harbinger of things to come.
		And then you saw Danny in his last fight.
		Who did he fight?
		Charlie Brenneman.
		Goddamn, that right hand he hit Brenneman with.
		Holy shit, was that impressive.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That was awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Perfect timing.
		Perfect.
		Just closed the distance perfectly and just landed like with everything from the toes.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Timing and accuracy was perfect for that.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Boom!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And you could see how happy he was, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was so happy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		But what was cool is he didn't follow up with that second right hand when he was already out.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		So that was definitely cool to see that he was out and pulled that last punch so he didn't hit him again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was very cool.
		And you could see by the impact.
		Like, here's the final combination.
		Dude!
		Look at how you Fucking keep stepping over to the left away from the shot.
		Look at this.
unidentified		Whoop!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bing bing!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I love how I bounce off.
		I've watched this a couple times now.
		I bounce off the cage.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you shoulder check the cage.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And throw the hardest overhand left.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I didn't even know I could throw an overhand left that hard, dude.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That was solid.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what a combination.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The angle slipping, coming back.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I like going back and watching the tape and finally remembering stuff you did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it hard, like, to, I mean, I'll...
		I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but is it hard to live in the moment after something like this?
		Or are you, like, in the middle of training going, holy fucking shit, did I really knock out Burrell?
		Like, are you, like, when you're training, when you're hitting the pads, when you move, am I really the fucking...
		Bandmate champion, TJ Dillashaw.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy, huh?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It takes a while.
		I mean, it's still kicking in, you know?
		I mean, it's only been, what, nine days.
		It's crazy, dude.
		It's a crazy ride.
		I mean, I don't even think it's fully kicked in yet, you know?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Hell, yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		For what I just did, you know?
		I mean, everyone was obviously counting me out except for my team and myself.
		And so to make that kind of statement, it's still kind of...
		I mean, to hear you say what you say and to watch it again on the fights and just kind of like, holy shit, dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, what's interesting to me is not just what you did.
		It's how quick you improved from your time in The Ultimate Fighter and how much potential you have.
		And how interesting this is, what Dwayne said is so true, that we're at a really unique time in the evolution of mixed martial arts.
		And we're seeing these Jon Jones characters that are taking things to this totally new place where, you know, you're seeing creativity, this abundance of different techniques that they have available to them inside the Octagon.
		And you're seeing accelerations in every single place, whether it's jujitsu, you're seeing accelerations in the striking, you're seeing everything is starting to pick up.
		And that, to me, was a milestone fight, because it was so tactical, and it was such an obvious...
		An obvious influence of like you as a trainer.
		You could see it in the fight.
		You could see it in the movement.
		Like I know you have this very unique way of teaching punches in combination with footsteps and movement.
		So and I was watching this having seen you hit the pads and having you know haven't seen you coach with that and watching it take place.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was amazing.
unidentified		It's amazing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially having that conversation that we had at lunch before the fight and then watching what you said take place.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember thinking, man, wow, this is so bizarre.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Almost as if you can predict the future.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you do your homework and you do it right.
		It's like...
		If you had to do, you know, jiu-jitsu with a white belt who didn't work out, you would say, well, here's what's going to happen.
		I'm going to grab him.
		I'm going to clinch him.
		I'm going to take him to the ground.
		I'm going to arm triangle him.
		You know, what's he going to do?
		He doesn't know what the fuck you're going to do.
		He doesn't know.
		He can't...
		At a certain level to say that, it gets crazy.
		When someone has no idea what you're going to do and you're Jacare, Souza, you can kind of do whatever you want to them.
		But it's when the guy's heading motherfucking barrow and you say, well, what he's going to do is he's going to fall for feints and TJ's going to be constantly stepping and moving.
		Once that happens, then it's really crazy.
		Then you watch it, and it's so...
		It's like, okay, yep, this is the next evolutionary step.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's all the stuff that we drilled.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I guarantee you, you know, look, Baral is going to come back better.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fucking for sure.
		Fucking for sure.
		They're going to watch that fight.
		You know, they're going to see what they did wrong, and Baral's going to come back, and he's going to light somebody else on fire and demand a rematch, and it's going to be crazy down the line.
		That's how it always is, right?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's why the sport's so good, man.
		I mean, that's why it's...
		It's nerve-wracking.
		It's exciting.
		It's like everyone's getting better all at the same time.
		Because I beat him, he's going to be even better than what he was, which is hard to believe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they need each other.
		Leonard needed Duran.
		Leonard needed Tommy Hearns.
unidentified		You're right, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ollie needed Frazier.
		Everybody needs that rival.
		It's part of not having...
		You also have it in the gym as well, which is incredible.
		I don't think boxing had that that much.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Boxing's not as much of a team sport.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's more individual.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's because wrestlers got involved.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is, right?
unidentified		I swear, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		We turned ours into a wrestling team.
		We seriously just have a wrestling team at our gym.
		And I feel like the exact same feeling as when I was in college.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
		Because if you remember when Marvin Hagler was the champ...
		You never really heard a lot about Hagler's sparring partners.
		Hagler comes from a team of animals in this area of Massachusetts, and they all get together, and Brockton Blockbuster, they all fucking fire up and live together in a house.
		Get the fuck out of here.
		There's none of that in boxing.
		Very rarely do you have that in boxing.
		You know, you have camps, like Robert Garcia's camp, they're pretty tight.
		You know, Freddie Roach's camp, they're pretty tight.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think it's starting now.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Maybe they see the benefit of it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		What other martial arts is there teams?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Muay Thai.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Muay Thai teams?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Muay Thai.
		You know, if you fight for a certain gym, like if you're a Mike's gym guy, those guys all come out to the cage together.
		Golden Glory guys.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Do they actually do like a dual match?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I know there's like IFC where you had those kickboxing matches and you keep scoring and everything, but is there like a dual match, like this team versus this team and you keep the score for matches?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a good question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, not really.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Like you compete as a team, like you can win a national championship as a team.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They started that, I remember Chuck Norris had that World Kickboxing League or something like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's where Raymond Daniels emerged.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's where people first got to see that guy that won that fight with that crazy jumping spinning kick.
		Yeah, Chuck had a cool idea for it, too.
		The mats with no ropes, you know?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sort of like a dish.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Lead sport.
		Platform almost, but it's round.
		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Frank Shamrock did that for a while, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he did have a shoe.
		Oh, yeah.
		Was it Shoebox or something?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Something along those lines.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's right.
unidentified		I think it was Shoebox.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I forgot about that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Huh.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had like a pit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then Yama Pit, they tried to do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know Yama Pit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The original founders of the UFC, like Bob Meyerowitz.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They tried to come back with some new thing, some Yama Pit thing.
unidentified		I don't remember.
unidentified		Oh, shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was a couple years back.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, some good guys fought in it.
		You know, it was like, I don't know if Pat Smith, I want to say Pat Smith fought in it.
		There were some guys that were, like, good fighters, just below, like, UFC level.
		Oh, have you seen this?
		This is fucking team MMA. This is not martial arts to me.
		This is a fight.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't like this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's dangerous.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Guys are stomping and shit, two on one.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		How do you tap out, or what?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		What happens?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, they fight.
		Yeah, you tap out or you get submitted, but it's crazy because guys come over and soccer kick guys in the head while they're in a headlock with another dude.
		Like, look at these two dudes are beating on this guy.
		Look at this.
		Three guys.
		Three guys came over and stomped this guy.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Where's this done at?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Russia.
		They give zero fucks in Russia.
		And these guys who get beat up, they get beat up fucking bad.
		So one thing you get beat up by one dude, but three dudes stomping you when you're on the ground...
		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's what I feel is lost in today, especially mixed martial arts, is the traditional martial arts honor and respect.
		I think that's something that I hope...
		Bring to the camp.
		I think it helps people keep them accountable.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no more of this.
		I'm going to watch that shit.
		It's not MMA. It's an assault.
		I agree with you.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Those guys should be arrested.
unidentified		Fucked up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The whole idea of MMA is one guy against another guy trying to establish who's trained the hardest, who's got the best of their skills.
		When another guy's kicking your head and you're holding on to a guy's headlock, what What does that prove?
		That's assault.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Proves that someone made a silly show.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Proves that two guys can knock the fuck out of one guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we've known that for a long time.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Proves that fighting shouldn't be a team sport like that is what it proves.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if you're gonna do something like that, it should be one guy versus two guys.
		I'll be down for that.
		If you got one bad motherfucker.
		You're like one Badr Hari and two fat soccer players.
		Two guys who don't have MMA training but think they could pull it off.
		And one MMA fighter.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You might need at least three guys to make that even competitive.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If they don't know any MMA at all...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just a mad fucking bum rush of athletic dudes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That would be preferable.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That reminds me of my dad when we were younger.
		My older brother, he'd always have his friends come over.
		My dad's just this old wrestler, super strong, and he would just take them all on and have them all pinned on the floor at the same time and then scream and they'd get up because they have no idea how to wrestle.
		My older brother and his friends never wrestled, so it's just like he can hold them all down and manipulate them.
		These are grown men and stuff, too.
		It's hilarious to see.
		They would need more than three guys to do that to someone that would be really well trained.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you teach your old man chokeholds?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he loves the sport, man.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		His parents are awesome.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		They love it.
		They got into it big time.
		My dad's the one that's made me who I am.
		He's the one that's made me so great.
		My mom, too.
		Super competitive family.
		My dad comes to the gym trying to tell Dwayne how to do his job, what I should be doing.
		He's joking, though.
		He's joking around.
		He's just having fun with it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		It's funny.
		It's cool, man.
		They have an awesome relationship with his parents.
		Him and his parents have an awesome relationship.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You know, you always hear about these fighters that grew up with, you know, really bad families or a hard upbringing and stuff, and I've always thought about like, I don't, I mean, luckily, luckily I never had any of that stuff, and it's crazy that I've wanted to, I kind of got into this, and it seems like most, most fighters have, you know, bad backgrounds for the most part.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that that background can help you, but it can also can fuck you up, like a chip on your shoulder?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		If what, if you...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, having a bad background, because you have a good background, you're super balanced.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think, sorry.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, please.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think it's someone's vision of how they look at it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you want to look at the fire to heat the house or to burn the house down, how are you going to look at that to positively and negatively motivate you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, but I think also everyone's experiences are unique in the amount of trauma they experienced, the amount of abuse they experienced.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's not uniform.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Right, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to tell.
		Some guys have gotten out of bad situations and become incredibly motivated and super dangerous.
		And then there's those TJ Dillashaw motherfuckers.
		What do you think it is about you that led you to want to be an MMA fighter?
		Have you ever sat down and thought it out?
		What made you so aggressive?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		My family, for sure.
		I have two other brothers.
		I'm the middle child.
		My family's always been...
		Anything we do, we turn into a competition.
		Even your mom?
		Oh, yeah.
		When we were kids, we'd be like...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		His mom's gangster.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		She's awesome.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		My dad and my mom would drive to an event, some wrestling event or whatever to support her kids, and we'd both be there.
		We'd pick a car to ride home in, and then it'd be a race to get home.
		Hoover's with mom wins when we get home, or Hoover's dad...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		His mom's gangster.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You know, we win, we get home, or...
		Just any kind of game, anything we're doing at the house or on vacation, we've always turned it into a competition, and we get pissed when we lose, too.
		I mean, even with family, you know?
		Even my mom, like, yeah, my mom, like, riding ATVs and getting all aggressive, and she's this tiny little woman, too, you know?
		And she's the most aggressive out of all of them, and it's just kind of bred me to compete, and then I wrestled my whole life, and I didn't do what I wanted to in wrestling.
		I didn't achieve the goals I set myself to.
		And so after I graduated, I just felt like I wasn't done competing.
		I didn't reach the ultimate greatness.
		I wasn't the best I could have been.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've always found that with competitive athletics, it's very difficult to do that while you're in college.
		And I've always been really impressed by collegiate athletes that were able to maintain high grades and still compete at a super high level.
		And although it's super admirable, it's not ideal.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No, not at all.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So did you feel like there was also an opportunity once you got out of college, you didn't have to concentrate on your studies so much, and now you could fully reach your potential?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And my studies was my competition.
		I didn't have to worry about anything else but competing.
		Obviously make some money to be able to live, but it was based for myself to be able to fight.
		Yeah, I mean, going through school, and then also just, I'm glad I learned how to peak myself.
		I feel like I was peaked wrong in college for wrestling.
		It was too much of a grind.
		It was too long.
		So I learned a lot through wrestling, which has helped me get to where I'm at.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's incredible that wrestling is so difficult that fucking UFC fighters at the highest level say, man, I'm glad I'm not wrestling anymore.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		100%, man.
		All the stuff I do in practice, the practice I do not want to go to is wrestling.
		It's going to be the toughest, you're going to be the most tired, and you're going to get the most beat up in wrestling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not the best way to do it, but it's the best way to develop that indomitable mental strength.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I highly recommend getting involved in wrestling if you want to learn the dedication of martial arts and just a hard work ethic and learning how to compete.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The mental preparation for wrestling is, man, there's nothing else like it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's people that think they work hard and they're hilarious.
		Those people are hilarious.
		They really have no idea what hard work is.
		I'm not bullshitting.
		Even if you've done jujitsu, even if you've done kickboxing, one of the hardest times I've ever worked out was high school wrestling.
		One season of high school wrestling.
		I remember we were doing shit where I was waking up in the morning and it would hurt my legs to stand up.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Your neck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd be like, ah!
		My legs were on fire and I'd be walking to the bedroom.
		I was 16 or 15 or whatever the fuck I was.
		I was like, ah!
unidentified		Ah, my fucking legs are killing me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd be in class, I'd be exhausted, and I knew, looking at the clock, oh, motherfucker.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A couple hours from now, we're going to go to war again.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		In college, I'd be doing morning practice where they're doing strength conditioning or runs, like intense runs.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Before classes.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Before, like 6 in the morning, we're doing this.
		And then we go to class, you know, you have two or three classes depending on your day of the week, and then you have a two-hour practice as soon as you get done with the classes.
		Or you might have a night class after practice, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And homework.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, and then homework, you know?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, research, homework, fucking piles of books and shit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It definitely does.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's why these guys are so successful now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at guys like Cormier.
		Look at guys like Cormier.
		Those high-level wrestlers.
		Not just his wrestling, but that sort of focus and dedication that those guys have.
		And that knowledge of how to win.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		How to compete.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Remember Matt Lillian, which is awesome.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Perfect example.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He was the most technically sound guy, but he knew how to fight.
		He was a gamer.
		He knew how to compete anyway.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Mm-hmm.
		Yeah, no doubt.
		No doubt.
		It's amazing when you see how many great amateur wrestlers have gone on to be great MMA players.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's why it's so unfortunate to see these wrestling programs get cut, too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Terrible.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Cal State Fullerton, I wrestle at, doesn't have a wrestling team anymore.
		We're trying to get it back, but it's like, to teach someone life skills, like, wrestling's the best way to do it.
		I mean, sports in general is the best way to do it, and there's no way you should cut wrestling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's communism.
		Terrorists have won.
		That's what it is.
		It's anti-American.
		If they have money for lacrosse, they should have some fucking money for wrestling.
		How can you play lacrosse in this day and age and have a straight look on your face?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That costs money, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You're smiling while you're running around with this ball in the net.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It's the Title IX team, man.
		I mean, I have nothing against females doing sports, but to cancel a program just because you don't have an equal amount of females doing male sports, so they do a dance program instead of wrestling?
		Like, we have a dance program at Cal State Fullerton instead of wrestling.
unidentified		The Pussification of America, TJ Dillashaw and Dwayne Ludwig!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Especially in California, man.
		Like, in the Midwest, wrestling's huge, you know?
		But out here, it's just not as popular, so it gets thrown away.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I personally believe that not just wrestling, but martial arts programs should be mandatory for all boys growing up.
		And girls, too.
		I think girls should at least have rudimentary ideas of self-defense.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It would just make our country badass.
		No one wants to mess with us, you know what I mean?
		Survival of the fittest, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It would do that, but it would also cut the bullying way the fuck down.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		People would be more confident.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They'd be less scared.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People would be less scared and people would be less inclined to just fuck with people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of times when people are fucking with people, they're doing it because they're insecure and they want some sort of...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They need a release.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they want some sort of an outlet for sure.
		That's a big aspect of it.
		But they also want sort of validation.
		But if they can get that in the gym, you don't need that out anywhere else.
		And you could be more relaxed.
		It's like you were talking about how hard you guys go in the gym and how everybody's super competitive.
		But I've seen you guys outside of the gym and everybody's super friendly.
		And not just to each other, but to other people that you encounter too.
		Because there's no need to release.
		There's no backed up, pent up, frustrated energy.
		And there's also more confidence.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I was telling Dwayne before we got here, I don't know what brought it up, but during college days or high school, I would have no problem getting in a fight in high school and beating some kid up outside on the street because I didn't like him, you know?
		But now that I'm doing a martial...
		Well, I mean, wrestling is martial arts, but now that I'm doing, like, a full-on fighting martial arts and I have utmost confidence in myself, it's like, I don't want to go and beat someone up.
		I could really hurt someone.
		You know what I mean?
		Like, I don't want to do it unless I'm in the cage getting paid for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and then you're doing it against pro athletes.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that knows what he's getting himself into.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The difference between competing and an assault, too.
		That's something people...
		Oh, the sport is so violent.
		You know, you were involved in a violent sport, TJ Dillashaw, but you're such a nice guy.
		Yes, but it's also the most extreme test you can put yourself under.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		This sport's made me nicer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I believe that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It really has.
		This sport has leveled me out and made me a whole lot nicer than I used to be, I think.
		I think in college and in high school I was a little bit meaner of a person than I am now.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it's because you burn it out or because you have more confidence?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, what do you attribute it to?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just learning to be, I don't know, a little bit more level-headed and just burned it out, matured.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I feel like if I would have been involved in this even at a younger age, I would have matured a lot faster as well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so too.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think that for boys, especially, that's the only, I mean, obviously I'm a male.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You learn self-worth and what it takes to be that person, and then afterwards you just kind of, I don't know, you just don't have a chip on your shoulder anymore.
		You've been in the gym letting out as much aggression and testosterone as possible, and then you get out on the street and it's like, you don't need to, you know?
		You don't have that pent-up aggression.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think a lot of people go through life, a lot of guys go through life with that, what does that sound?
		Is that your fingers?
		What is that?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's probably me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it you?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Moving your legs so much, huh?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, sorry.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Carry on.
unidentified		No, no, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's like a scratchy, scratchy.
		You didn't hear that?
		I heard it a little.
		But that extra pent-up aggression gives guys a trigger.
		They start reacting to things.
		But if you're training, you're done training, like I always say, after the gym, nothing bothers me.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, nothing.
		Literally nothing.
		Especially if you sparred.
		People could be yelling at you, and you'd be like, please don't yell at me.
		I gotta go.
		You know, it's like, there's nothing there.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Especially down here with all the traffic, everyone should be doing some martial arts, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It'd be a lot less road rage.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Half hour lunch, just go rolling a gi real quick for a half hour.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We should do some rolling drills.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A little bit of ecstasy in everybody's air conditioning.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just a tiny amount.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just a happy place.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just a little bit, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tiny release.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just everything's going to be alright, folks.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Ecstasy, martial arts, one of the other, pick one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They can figure out how to make a car that gives you a little ecstasy as you're driving.
		Just the tiniest amount of ecstasy.
		Studies have shown that one microgram of ecstasy in your air supply keeps you from being intoxified, but instead of being intoxicated, you have a wonderful time during your day, and you're more productive and friendly to everybody.
unidentified		That's why Mercedes-Benz is Those things would go through the roof, dude.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Everyone would be buying them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everybody would be cranking them.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There's the next goal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Crank.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Let's rock it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Learn how to turn it up a little bit more.
		People would be getting pulled over and be like, how much ecstasy has your car got in it?
		I feel like that's what New Mood is for me.
		For Onnit, man, I love New Mood.
		New Mood is one of my favorite products that Onnit does.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the one I can feel the most difference with is New Mood and T+. Yeah, I love NuMood too, and anybody who's interested in 5-HTP supplements, which is what NuMood is, you've got to be really careful that you're not on SSRIs.
		If you're on any sort of antidepressants, like Zoloft, things along those lines, serotonin reuptake inhibitors, I forget what it stands for, but you can have something called serotonin syndrome, where you have too much serotonin.
		The NuMood elevates your serotonin, and then so do these drugs as well.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You'd just be too happy then, or what?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it's probably dangerous.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Can you take too much new mood?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I don't think so.
		You'd have to take a lot.
		I take four pills at a shot, and on a stressful day, I'll do that twice.
		On a crazy day, I have a lot of shit going on, and I've never had any negative effects at all.
		But I think if you're going to be careful, you should probably take less than I do.
		I think I'm fucking around.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I take four Alphabrains before the fights to watch them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I do too.
		I take four Alphabrains before every show.
		I take four Alphabrains before every comedy show, before every broadcast.
		I take four.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That I feel like I've noticed more over the long term than right away.
		Alphabrains, I've noticed my concentration and stuff from long term.
		I don't notice it that day, but over a month, I'm like, damn, I picked up stuff a lot faster.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a subtle increase.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It used to be a little bit more potent, but we were having problems.
		People were getting headaches from it.
		There was a larger number of people.
unidentified		I wasn't getting headaches.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Now we have to take eight of them because you guys lowered the dose.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've talked about...
		No, I still feel a big difference from these.
		And the clinical trial that we did, the double blind, that was with this particular formula.
		But I still think that we should release a fucking hyperversion for people who are savages and just want to get crazy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Even if you don't want to...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just calling crossbones on it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		If we can't release it, can I at least get some?
unidentified		I might come back with some ninja combinations.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We can get you some.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think this is just the beginning of this sort of science of nootropics, and they're coming up with all sorts of different combinations, these things, paracetone.
unidentified		I want that stuff to be like NCT. Oh, that shit from that movie, Limitless?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I love that movie, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's America in a nutshell.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wants to be a lazy fuck that you take a pill and all of a sudden you're Superman.
unidentified		Yeah, that's true.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Gotta work for it, huh?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it funny though how many goddamn movies there are about a dumb person who all of a sudden becomes super smart and figures the whole fucking world out?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like John Travolta when he got hit by lightning.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right, that's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All of a sudden he's fucking learning Portuguese and shit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was sweet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was a good one.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Everyone's outside with a pole trying to get struck by lightning and stuff so they can be smart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, it does work with some things.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I have a friend and her son got in a motorcycle accident and then he got a head injury and became super artistic after the motorcycle injury.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		So we do need to get hit in the head.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, for some people, it's not an exact science.
		That's the problem.
		Sam Kinison got hit in the head when he was a kid, too.
		He got hit by a truck.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I heard about this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it fucking switched.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was like a normal, calm, shy kid, and then he got hit by a truck, and all of a sudden, ow!
unidentified		Ow!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He became this fucking wild, impulsive maniac.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Wow, that's crazy.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Honestly, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, head injuries are very strange.
		It's very strange, the reactions that head injuries have.
		You know, people have had car accidents and then become gay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Really?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No way.
unidentified		I might have made that up.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm not feeling it.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I might have made that up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no, I didn't.
		Hold on a second.
		Head trauma turns a guy dead.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Somebody made it up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think so.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Some guy who was gay and just used that as an excuse.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's fine, dude.
unidentified		That's cool.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I'm not judging you.
unidentified		I'm a dick.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Rugby player wakes up gay after a stroke.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had a stroke and then he woke up and he was gay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Someone took care of him when he was not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Burly rugby player has a stroke after a freak gym accident, wakes up gay, and becomes a hairdresser.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's just his excuse.
		I mean, whatever.
		I mean, he's gay, he's gay, it's cool, whatever, you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That guy so does not look gay.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Or a rugby player.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		He does not look like a rugby player either.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		But, I mean, he doesn't need to make up an excuse of getting hit in the head to be gay.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I mean, just, whatever, you're gay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, you don't know...
		Maybe he really did have a stroke and woke up gay.
		Look what he used to look like.
		Straight as fuck.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Straight as fuck.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He looked straight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, there was a drug called Re-Equip that an Irish man won a settlement of, I believe it was like $600,000 U.S. dollars because this drug turned him gay and into a gambling addict.
		He was having unsafe sex and he was meeting people online.
		And getting fucking crazy with dudes and doing a bunch of gay shit.
		And he was a family man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		And he won?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He won!
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		How do you prove that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a very good question, TJ Dillashaw.
		I like how you think.
		I don't fucking know, man!
		But not only did they prove it, I mean, this was against GlaxoKline.
		GlaxoKline Smith, the big pharmaceutical company, they're the ones who lost.
		So it was, their lawyers lost this case.
		It was so much evidence.
		Here, I'll pull it up.
		Re-equip There must be so much fucking evidence, turns a man gay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That is crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's so much evidence that they actually had to give him money, which is amazing.
		Yeah, he won 160,000 pounds, which is roughly somewhere around...
		What's that weird L-looking thing?
		Is that a pound?
		I am not sure.
		I think so.
		Anyway, whatever the amount this was.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It was a lot of money.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Even if it was $160,000.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		It was way too much.
		I don't care if it's $160,000.
		He shouldn't get paid for that much.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Right, nothing.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Somebody got manipulated.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he had Parkinson's.
		And so this was a Parkinson's medication.
		And it turned him into a gay, sex, and gambling addict.
		Amazing.
		Impulsive control systems.
		This is where it gets really weird.
		Including compulsive behaviors.
		There have been reports of patients experiencing intense urges to gamble, increased sexual urges, and other intense urges, and the inability to control those urges while taking one or more of the medications that increase and the inability to control those urges while taking one or more Dopaminergic.
		Dopaminergic.
		Dopaminergic tone.
		That are generally used for the treatment of Parkinson's disease.
		So this is in restless leg syndromes.
		You see when dudes can't stop moving their legs.
unidentified		Who's this Parkinson's guy?
unidentified		Does he have any daughters?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that a joke?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Should have worked on that one a little bit more before you let it loose.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Parkinson's?
unidentified		He had Parkin's sons.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you're so retarded.
		That doesn't work.
		You can't keep trying it.
		He's like, come on, guys.
		Parkin, son, where's his daughters?
		Get it?
		They want to fuck.
		I thought it was funny.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I missed it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Please, don't encourage him.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We both missed it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There was nothing there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The idea that a drug could do that to you, though, is pretty fucking shocking.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		A drug that turns you into acting like a lot of other people in the world?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not just acting like a lot of other people in the world, but you're a normal guy who has a control of your urges, and then all of a sudden you're just flying off the handle meeting dudes online.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Control of urges.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Brian, we should do that as a test.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just get you on this shit.
unidentified		I would love to try it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would totally do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He would be the best guinea pig.
unidentified		It would make life so much easier if I liked it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We give him a monthly budget and a videographer.
unidentified		You know how nice it would be to like Dick?
brian redban ▲ ● ▼		It would be the best thing in the world if you just craved it instead of having to deal with all this nonsense.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm saying.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		We're back at the gym.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, look, everybody wants to say there's something wrong with being gay, but you live and you die.
		And if you're straight, you look at gay and go, oh, I don't want that.
		But guess what?
		If you're straight, you look at, if you're gay, rather, you look at straight and go, oh, I don't want that.
		What you like is what you like.
		And if you like gay, it would be awesome to be gay.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's spots!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I had doctors when I had to go do my physicals and stuff for the fight.
		They'd say, why are you fighting?
		Like, why are you doing this?
		Like, fuck, man.
		I don't know, but it's fun.
		Yeah.
		Exploring my levels of testosterone, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go down to Santa Monica Boulevard, if you're a gay guy, there's like a one-stop shop.
		You just take your shirt off and just walk to the crowd and just start blowing you.
		I mean, that's what I hear!
unidentified		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's what I hear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's very different.
		Because it's all yang.
		There's yang, yang, yang, yang, yang.
		There's no yins.
		Like, there's no, like, oh, I don't know.
		You just want to use me.
		There's none of that.
		They're using each other.
		They're just fucking blasting each other.
		They're having a great time.
		They understand each other.
		There's no confusion.
		There's no navigating.
		You know, like, navigating a relationship with a woman is like putting rubber gloves on in the dark and putting your hands into one of those incubation tubes and trying to do a Rubik's Cube.
		Like, what?
		I can't see what the fuck's going on here.
		You have to take their word for what is happening here.
		Oh, you're upset that I went out with my friends.
		Oh, okay.
		I guess no more friends.
		Are you my friend?
		Who are you?
		What's going on here?
		We don't know how they think.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I think I got a good Rubik's Cube.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but dudes...
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Hey, I got a good one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, you got a good one.
		That's the key.
		Get a Rubik's Cube that you can figure out.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There it is.
		But dudes knowing dudes, they're like, oh, you like dick, I like dick.
		Party!
unidentified		Woo!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They know what's going on.
		They both like each other.
		They bang it out.
		Seems more easy.
unidentified		So if you were offered this drug, if you weren't married, would you try it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I'd have to be committed.
		See, women can dance back and forth from the world of gay and straight with an effortless finesse.
		They can easily go back and forth.
		Not only that, it makes them more attractive.
		They can say things like, I don't even like to talk about this, but...
		I was gay for like a year.
		Shut up!
		Yeah, for a year I had a girlfriend.
		And, you know, I just was like, men are assholes.
		I'm done.
		And you're like, your dick is like a fucking...
unidentified		Just a raging spiel missile in your pants.
unidentified		Like, tell me more!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Where is she?
		Tell her to come stay with us.
		You know?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's the first thought on every guy, for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		For sure.
		It's okay.
		It doesn't even bother me.
		If you came home and you found your girlfriend eating pussy, you wouldn't be like, what the fuck?
		You'd be like, oh, what's going on here?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Just take your clothes off and come in the room.
unidentified		Like, hey, what's up?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		As long as the girlfriend is not all jealous and fucking plotty.
		Like, oh, look, I don't even like that.
		You better keep it away from me.
unidentified		Like, oh, someone's ruined the party.
unidentified		As long as she's friendly too, who cares?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if a girl comes home and her boyfriend is sucking a cock, that's a bummer.
		If you come home and your boyfriend is blowing the plumber, that is a fucking straight bummer.
		You know?
		But if you came home and your wife went to fucking lunch with some chick who's in an aerobics class and they're eating each other out when you walk through the door, it's really not that big of a deal.
		It's a little surprising.
		Like, whoa, this is crazy.
		The act of male sex is a very different act.
		It's very...
		So, no, I wouldn't take that pill.
unidentified		That's true.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		To answer your question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		In a roundabout sort of a way.
		Would you take it?
		You think you would take it?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		Girls are better.
		They're prettier.
		They smell better.
unidentified		It would be interesting to try it, though, if there was a serum.
		You know what I mean?
		I don't want a rework to be fixed.
		Oh my god, I like dick.
		That's so weird.
		All right, never mind.
		That was weird, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I wouldn't mind.
		Just to see how that would be.
		I wouldn't mind being a girl for a day.
		This is what I say.
		If there is a possibility that you could go into someone's mind, like say this, say if you and your girlfriend got together and you went into a machine and you swapped positions.
		Like she became the girl and you became the guy.
		Like you had all your knowledge of life, but all of a sudden you thought like a girl and you wanted to get fucked.
		And you want to get fucked by you, because she's you now, and you are her.
		So you liked boys, and you liked you, and that would be a way that you could be gay, but not be gay, because you'd be gay for yourself.
		So you would switch positions with your girlfriend or wife.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		So you have her thoughts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And she would be banging you, doggy style.
		You're like, wow, this does hurt my service.
		This is kind of annoying.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		She wasn't lying.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She could be you.
		And she can feel what it's like to get ahead and go, oh, now I know why you're always trying to get me to do this.
		This is pretty awesome.
		This is amazing.
		It's odd.
		I like it better when I'm looking at it.
		Crazy.
		I like it better when I'm looking at you doing this.
		I never would have imagined that.
		Now I know why you're always creeping me out.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		They need to invent this machine just to make the relationship better.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		They make everyone's relationship better.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they make it so much better.
		Well, there's a problem now, man.
		There's this weird competition between men and women.
		There's us versus them.
		You know, and there's a bunch of sneaky fucks that sneak on the other side, both men and women.
		There's a bunch of women who, like, they're down to hang with men.
		You know, this is a girl, she'd like to come over your house and, oh, she can watch sports with us.
		Yeah, fuck she can.
		Goddamn traitor, gender traitor over here sneaking around, collecting data to bring back to the enemy.
		And that's the same way with men.
		And men who, you know, like the white knights, who like stand, there's white knights that start shit that there's nothing, like a man and a woman could be having a disagreement, like a calm disagreement, and some dickhead will walk up and go, is he bothering you?
		Is there a problem here?
		Like, oh, you gross sack of shit.
		How dare you?
		People not even raising their voice, all I saw is you being a dick to a beautiful woman.
		There's a lot of those guys out there.
		They'll insert themselves, whether it's verbally into an internet situation or whether it's physically in a bar.
		Just nosy cunts that are totally out of line that will pretend that you're being aggressive.
		I've seen it happen with a girl.
		It's like, get the fuck out of here.
		We're just talking about this.
		You're not a part of this.
		I came over to help you.
		The girl was like, I don't need your fucking help.
		What are you doing, man?
		But the dude had his mouth open.
		The dude was like, are you fucking serious?
		I can't believe this guy came over.
		That is super common.
		Super common that sanctimonious shithead dudes will step in as the white knight.
		Those guys are disgusting.
		Because they have this, like, fucking moral high ground.
		Like, almost like they're going to come over and rescue someone.
		It's like, do you remember...
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Rescue you but be a scumbag at the same time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like trying to sneak in on your chick.
unidentified		Exactly.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
unidentified		Exactly.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this guy's a dick.
		Leave him for me.
		Come on, let's go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you remember those guardian angel dudes?
		Do you remember those guys?
		They would wear berets and they would fucking fight crime and shit.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Remember that?
		Yeah.
		Well, they found out.
		Here's what happened to them.
		One of them faked a rape that he helped rescue someone.
		You know, he faked it.
		And then, you know, stepped in and saved the day.
		And, you know, they caught him.
		And it's like, everybody was like, what the fuck are you doing?
		The guy became a radio guy.
		He was doing a radio show for a while.
		But those kind of guys, they would be walking around looking for people to save sometimes.
		They would be directing traffic.
		I remember I was in Boston, and I was in traffic.
		And I'm sitting there at a red light, and this dude's a guardian angel.
		He's got the beret on.
		He's dressed like a fucking superhero.
		And I look over at him, and I'm with my friend.
		I'm like, look at this guy over here.
		What is going on?
		And I look over at the guy, and the guy's like, fuck you!
		He's giving me the finger.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		The Guardian Angel!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because I was looking at him.
		I'm like, dude, you're wearing an outfit from another era.
		Like, you have a beret on, sir.
		Like, are you a poet in France?
		Like, what are you doing?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Is this it?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are they still around, bro?
unidentified		Yeah, the safety patrol.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Guardian Angel's safety patrol.
		Yeah, that's the guy.
		That guy in the middle, he's the guy that faked the rape.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, really?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess.
		But these beret-wearing fucking shitheads would be wandering through the streets.
		So strange.
		Illuminati, bro.
		They're down with the Illuminati.
		I can't believe that shit.
		The Guardian Angels, down with the goddamn Illuminati.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		There's going to be shitty people in every position, though.
		Of course.
		The overall mission of that is cool, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, if it was legit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And maybe it is in some circumstances.
		But what I'm going back to is those fucking white knight assholes.
		Those guys who pretend there's a problem.
		You see it online, too.
		Traitors.
		You fucking pussies.
		You're the opposite of Clint Eastwood in all his best movies.
		That's what you fucking little bitches.
		Sad bitches with weak sperm.
		No one wants any of it.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		See, they should have came up through the martial arts.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		They'd be a bit more respectable human beings.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, they would have more confidence.
		They wouldn't have to take that sneaky move.
		The sneaky move of trying to paint other men as a victim.
		Or other men as the aggressor when they're not.
		That's a common thing with guys.
		I see that.
		And then there's also, there's guys that do fucking suck.
		And there's guys that we have to call out.
		That men have to go, this guy's a fucking cunt.
		You know, the guys that are ruining it for other men because they treat women like shit.
		There's that too.
		But it's hard to distinguish when you got your fake-ass white knights out there muddy in the water.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're ruining it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just peeing in the pool.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Gotta be a good judge of character.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Crying wolf.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You better judges.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's the thing, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The judge of character.
unidentified		There's also a red hat society.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, that's different.
		Those are women, man.
		There's a bunch of old ladies.
		Those ladies are very friendly.
		How dare you?
		See, that's the thing about women's groups, man.
		You don't worry about them beating people up.
		Like fucking guardian angels or hell's angels.
		You know, you could run into a bunch of dudes.
		You're into a possible ass-kicking scenario.
		Red hats?
		What are those bitches going to do?
		There's very few riots started by red hat women.
unidentified		Shaking their fists at us.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You, get out of my yard!
unidentified		So, this fight, let's go back to this.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Five round fight.
		What is the next day like after a fight like that?
		What kind of injuries are you dealing with?
		What kind of soreness are you dealing with?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Luckily, all offensive injuries.
		My right hand was sore.
		Just feeling better now.
		My right elbow, left shin, right shin kind of deal.
		Just from throwing strikes.
		I got a little tiny cut on my head, but for the most part, feeling good.
		I didn't take too much damage at all.
		A little bruise.
		My nose always gets kind of hit.
		It's just always in the way.
		It felt great, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you see these injuries like Anderson Silva, Tyrone Spong, these leg check, leg break injuries, which is crazy to see two of them in the course of a few months by super high-level fighters.
		Well, Dwayne, I should ask you this probably as a coach.
		What do you would attribute that to and how can guys prevent that from happening?
		Because it's some of the most horrific shit I've ever seen.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if it was a pre-existing injury already, if they had an injury going into the fight.
		Or if it happened then, or if it's just blocking wrong, not turning the toes out, making sure you're lining up the shins, or buffering the blow, or if they went into it.
		So there's a couple, you know, X factors there.
		But, you know, I don't know.
		I mean, if you think we've seen it more and more, then it would be something that's happening during the injury camp.
		I think that those are just two freak accidents.
		It's happened.
		It happened to Carlos Conant, too.
		Someone kicked him.
		They broke their ankle also in a King of the Cage fight.
		But I'm not sure, to be honest, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, Corey Hill was the first in the UFC. He was a real tall, skinny guy.
		So we sort of attribute it to that.
		He was 155, but he was so thin.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Maybe cutting too much weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Cutting too much weight, you think has an impact on bone density?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it could be depleting the body, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But Anderson didn't really cut too much weight, did he?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		He cuts weight, he gets pretty heavy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Tyrone Spong definitely cut weight when he made that glory tournament.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That I don't know though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know he cut weight because they were talking about it.
		Gokhan Saki had two fights, but Gokhan Saki won the first fight.
		He fought Nathan Corbett and knocked him out, not knocked him out, but hit him with a left hook and his ears started bleeding real bad.
		They stopped that fight in the first round, he blew out his eardrum.
		So he got a first round stoppage, but then Tyrone Spong fought this Brazilian cat and went three hard rounds with him, and then they fought again that night.
		I have a problem with that.
		I think that I love Glory, and I'm so happy they're bringing high-level kickboxing to television, but I really think they should abandon that fighting twice in one night.
		I think it's fucking dangerous, man.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's the worst thing on your brain is double concussions.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		So you can still fight on a concussion, and you get in your second one so much worse for your brain.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And it's not even.
		If one guy got a concussion in the first round of their fight, fought two more rounds, was out of it, and then an hour later is going to fight in the final match, and the other guy won his first fight with one punch, didn't receive any damage at all, just because they both had to fight doesn't mean that it's an even situation going into the final fight.
		It's absolutely not even, which makes it kind of interesting for the folks at home, but I think when you're dealing with the highest level combat athletes, it's a disservice to them to make them compete like that.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		You kind of have to do that on Ultimate Fighter.
		I mean, you do get longer breaks, but man, that's crunched into six weeks.
		I agree.
		If you go into a fight and get cut, they might not even let you fight.
		Right.
		Everything's got to work together for that show, too.
		I mean, not always the best athlete wins that show because of so many X-Factors going into the fights.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and hand injuries.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That just goes back to game planning as well.
		Taking the first couple rounds or first couple fights, nice and lay, not pulling everything out of the toolbox.
		Just fighting the safe fights to save it to the end.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, one of the kids on this season, Ultimate Fighter, I think, how do you pronounce his last name?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Spawn.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, the kid had the good knockout to get in the house?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He had a good knockout to get in the house, and then he had a second fight and fought very conservatively.
		And people were just going crazy and booing him and getting mad at him, and Dana said it was one of the worst fights he's ever seen.
		Do you have a problem with that?
		Does that drive you nuts when you know the actual scenario inside the house?
		You know that you have to get through that.
		And this idea that you're supposed to throw caution to the wind in your future.
		Just throw it on a whim just to make it more exciting.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		The guy's smart.
		He's looking towards his future.
		He's really smart.
		A lot of people don't look at it that way.
		They don't realize how fast this show is filmed.
		It's filmed in six weeks.
		You fight a week later, most likely.
		Sometimes you'll get a little bit longer break, but my last two fights were within five days of each other.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy.
		It's crazy.
		It's incredibly difficult to do, and in any other situation, it probably likely wouldn't get sanctioned.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No, yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, good call.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, if you were fighting in the UFC and you fought a three-round hard fight and then they said, oh, he's going to fight another three-round hard fight in a week, you'd be like, he's going to what?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can you imagine if somebody from this past weekend, let's pick a fighter, Damian Maia.
		Damian Maia had a three-round scrap this past weekend.
		If he had to go and, you know, this week someone fell out and they said, well, Damian Maia's going to fight this weekend in Vegas, you'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
		The Vegas Athletic Commission would be like, the fuck he is.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But somehow or another, on an extended show where it's a tournament format, like Glory, they're gonna fight in a night!
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's nuts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They wouldn't let you fight the next day, but they'll let you fight an hour later?
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		No matter how the fight goes, even if you win easily, you still get suspended 30-45 days.
unidentified		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How the fuck is a guy fighting a two-round war, a three-round war in kickboxing, and then going to fight again?
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Then I guess that goes back to how they used to have like 12-round kickboxing matches.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They used to have 15-round boxing matches.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there you go, and then just breaking it up is pretty much how the same format is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But it's not, because you're never getting cold.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You're getting breaks, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that break when you get cold and everything chills out.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's terrible.
		I fought three times.
		The only time I ever fought kickboxing, I fought three times in one night.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Oh, wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I had an hour between the second fight and the third fight.
		And you try to fire up again.
		You've already fought twice that day.
		You're beating the fuck down.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		That's a wrestling tournament.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's very hard.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		You got to change for that aspect also.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The wrestling tournament, though, the only difference being that wrestling, you're not taking head blows.
		I worry about guys in glory getting concussed in the first round and then making it through somehow and then fighting in the finals and getting head kicked into oblivion.
		I really do worry about that.
		I just don't think it's the right way.
		I think they've got such a great thing.
		They're putting high-level kickboxing on TV. You're getting to see all these Muay Thai greats.
		You're getting to see all these amazing, amazing fighters and fights.
		But the situation with a tournament, I just think, is archaic.
		I think they need to abandon that shit.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Just single fights each night.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Some more tournament MMA. When they used to do that shit in Pride, they used to do that shit in the UFC. Even playing fields.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		I like that better for sure.
		Sometimes people win tournaments that shouldn't win them.
		I shouldn't say shouldn't win them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They shouldn't win them.
		You're right.
		They shouldn't win them.
		It's not fair.
		It's too crazy.
		It's like, yes, it's interesting.
		Yes, it's entertaining.
		Yes, it's fascinating.
		But...
		It's unconscionable knowing what we know now about injuries and about damage that a body takes to do that just for entertainment.
		It's because it's not as simple as you're risking it all on one fight, you train for eight weeks, boom, you're in the match.
		It's not.
		It's two fights in a day.
		Oh, you pussy!
unidentified		Maybe you should be fucking commentating on hopscotch, you fucking queer!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, definitely want to take the fighter safety into account for sure.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne Ludwig and TJ Dillashaw, I think we cleaned up a lot of things.
		I think we solved a lot of problems, judging problems, training problems.
		Listen, man, I can't say enough.
		Congratulations to you guys.
		Thank you.
		You guys, awesome job and awesome potential and awesome things to come.
		TJ Dillashaw.
		Well, I can't believe it, man.
		I mean, it's impossible to say how impressive the whole thing has been.
		For you, you're living the dream, man.
		Congratulations.
unidentified		Thank you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bantamweight motherfucking champion of the world.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good.
unidentified		Kapow!
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		TJ Dillashaw.
		All right.
		Thanks to our sponsor.
		Thanks to Naturebox.
		Go to NatureBox.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I need some of that NatureBox.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Go to NatureBox.com forward slash Rogan and get 50% off of your first box.
		Thanks also to Onnit.com.
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tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		Best company.
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joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Weird number.
		16. Use the code word JUNE48. So that's for 48 hours.
		JUNE48. 16% off.
		You've got one day and 20 hours.
		Almost two days as of right now.
		As of 3 o'clock.
tj dillashaw ▲ ● ▼		I better hurry up and get on there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right, you dirty fucks.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Get on it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		We'll see you tomorrow.
		Much love to everybody.
		Follow TJ Dillashaw on Twitter and Dwayne Bang.
duane ludwig ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne Bang Calm.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dwayne Bang Calm on Twitter as well.
		All right.
		Big love.
		Big kiss.
		See you soon.

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