Joe Rogan, Duncan Trussell, and Christopher Ryan dissect Bitcoin’s censorship risks—Apple’s removal of a wallet app sparking debates on currency manipulation—while critiquing systemic corruption, from profit-driven U.S. prisons to Spain’s complaint-based policing. They explore civilization’s contradictions: ethical lessons for kids clashing with ambition-driven psychopathy among elites, and whether whistleblowers like Assange or Manning are heroes or hypocrites. Ryan links corporate power to fascism, while Rogan defends human innovation over environmentalist limits, framing societal hypocrisy as a core flaw in progress. [Automatically generated summary]
Going to the post office to send your packages is always a pain in the ass.
Getting them measured on a scale.
If you're running a small business and you're selling shit online, if you're not, you should do that because it's way better than having a boss.
But stamps.com is a way that you can do it all from the comfort of your own home.
With your own home computer and a regular printer, you can print U.S. postage right there in your office.
They give you a free digital scale, if you use the code word JRE, in their $110 bonus offer, which includes $55 of free postage and a free digital scale that you are not to use for mushrooms.
And you can measure your packages and print official U.S. postage right there from your office and send it through stamps.com.
It saves you a ton of money.
You know, all you have to do is package everything up, print it up, put the labels on, give them to the postman.
Thank you.
You cut a whole process out.
If the postage changes, Stamps.com is on the ball ahead of time, so you don't have to worry about it.
And you really shouldn't be fucking complaining about postage.
Yeah, which is great, but the iPhone thing, I've got a weird thing going on with them because of this Bitcoin thing.
I think Bitcoin is a fascinating subject.
And yeah, there's going to be people that blow a lot of money on it.
It's going to go up and down.
I mean, there's a lot going on with it.
People may be trying to sabotage it.
But the bottom line is you can't get an Apple Bitcoin wallet app.
They canceled their app.
The app had 120,000 downloads.
I don't know, but that's disrespectful to the community, to the Bitcoin community, in my opinion.
I don't know if Bitcoin's ever going to work out or not work out, but I do know that I don't want to support a company that does something like that.
If these applications are doing something deceptive, then I think there should be some sort of a press release explaining what deceptive practices were being done by these apps that made you remove them.
But I find it odd if I can get all these different Bitcoin wallets for Android, but when I look on an iPhone, there's fucking nothing.
That can't be a coincidence.
You can't tell me that...
That Google is so negligent that they allow these people to get on their network and sell these apps, and no one is stopping all the exploits, no one's stopping all the bullshit, or is Apple just keeping them from coming on their platform?
And what wampum was, as most school kids know, is seashells sewn onto a belt, right?
But what he told me was that they're a particular type of seashell that only grew in this one bay that was controlled by this one tribe, so they sort of had a monopoly.
It's like the America...
The dollar at this point, the reserve currency, right?
And it would emanate out from there.
So what the Dutch did was they went and figured out what shell it was, and they figured out how to cultivate that mollusk themselves.
So within a couple of years, they had an unlimited supply of- Counterfeit.
I guess we've already done these commercials, right?
Did we say rogan.ting.com?
We did, right?
So let's just not even play music.
Just keep going.
It feels weird when you break up conversations like this.
But wasn't the idea about gold and precious minerals being there's very few of them.
There's a finite amount so that this is a good thing to base money on because people sort of always kind of recognize there's got to be a way to put a cap on it.
The way to keep this thing, it doesn't totally make sense for controlling everything.
Think about what money really is.
It's so bizarre.
Because it's not human, okay?
It's not thinking, but it seems to be an organism.
It seems to be something that requires you to love it, so it allows you to connect yourself to all these material items that fill up this weird hole in your idea of the world.
I think the real corrupting factor of money is that they want someone...
Everybody wants it.
So if everybody wants it, someone at some point in time is going to try to control the flow of other people acquiring it because then it will interfere with them.
And so then it becomes this chimpanzee competition thing.
It's not that money is toxic, because you could take wealthy people who make a lot of money, who do a lot of good things with it, and they seem to be really nice.
And they have this ability to help and affect all sorts of other folks.
Like Bill Gates.
I don't know anything about Bill Gates, but what I know about watching Bill Gates is his constant charity work.
Well, Apple wouldn't let anybody sell their operating system and just attach it to a computer.
When you buy an Apple computer, you buy it from them.
They used to have clones.
They used to have these Apple clones you could buy.
And then they shut those clones down.
People got really pissed.
And businesses also, like, the old Apples were dog shit.
They were bad.
And when Windows came out, there were so many good things about Windows operating system as opposed to the old OSX. There's something about the way the operating system worked that it was really bad with multitasking.
There's definitely some copying back and forth from each other.
But the original way of using a user interface, a graphic user interface, it was invented by Xerox.
They invented the first computer that worked like that.
Everything else was a terminal that you'd have to just punch in code.
They figured out how to do that first.
And then Apple and then Windows copied that.
But so what?
It's just a graphic user interface.
I mean, like, what's going on behind the scenes?
Well, the old days...
Before OSX, Apple had no memory protection, no preemptive multitasking.
The old operating systems for Apple were really shitty.
So then they changed it to go with the Windows platform, to go with the Intel platform, when they couldn't get anything more out of that IBM computer that they used to sell.
They couldn't get any more juice out of it.
And then the Windows computers were getting up to 1 GHz.
So they just jumped ship and went to Intel and had to change everything.
You can run a bunch of different programs at the same time.
But it used to be...
Like, if you wanted to...
It used to be if you wanted to open up iTunes and also have a browser running and also be checking your Twitter feed on a Twitter application, you'd have a real fucking problem.
Especially if you're trying to play a video online as well, then your computer's just going to shit itself.
But now that's super commonplace.
But one of the reasons is the operating system is far more complex, and it's a Unix-based operating system now.
So when Apple came around with OSX, it was so far ahead of anything else.
Windows looked like a dinosaur in comparison.
That's when I switched over.
The guys in the Fear Factor office had these Apple computers with OSX. For whatever reason, Hollywood has always been super, super Apple.
Did you ever read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
It's a futuristic...
There was a restaurant called The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, and you could go to that restaurant and watch the universe end like somehow it was in a time portal, but cows would come to your table.
And they could talk and they would suggest which parts of them you should eat.
If the world keeps going the way it's going, that will eventually happen.
We'll eventually bestow upon cows the ability to want to die, have no problem serving humans, give them a very simple mind, and then have them trot around on two legs and walk around on their hind feet and explain what parts of their body they want you to eat.
But there are all these – I always just thought like some people, some civilizations were cannibalistic and some weren't, right?
It was just like some evilness that got into some and not others randomly.
But it turns out that there's a biological reason for this.
There's a guy named Marvin Harris, a great anthropologist who was at Columbia for a long time.
He wrote about how he studied different islands in the South Pacific, some of which were cannibalistic and some of which weren't in different societies around the world.
And what he found was that the societies that were cannibalistic had no domesticable animal that didn't eat the same food as humans.
In other words, you aren't going to raise dogs for meat because dogs eat the same shit that humans eat, right?
You want to raise animals for meat like goats That don't eat stuff that humans eat.
So they're not competing for the same original food source, right?
Then it's supplementary food, right?
So, like, if you look at the Aztecs, there was nothing in Mexico that they could raise, that they could domesticate and raise for meat that didn't eat what humans ate.
So they were protein-starved.
So when they were in a battle and they killed a bunch of dudes, they would eat them.
Whereas Europeans who killed just as many people, if not more, weren't eating them.
Then consider that a sacrilege because in Europe you had pigs, you had goats, you had chickens, you had all these things that were easy to domesticate that humans had been living on for a long time.
So it's really a historical accident who's cannibalistic and who isn't.
So this asshole climbs into this beaver den naked, okay, to get away from these Nez Perce Indians, and then he winds up walking some, like, 100 miles or some fucking crazy shit.
Because if you find one of these beaver dens, like Ronella showed me how to find them, when you're going down the river, you see these stacks of sticks, this weird sort of formation.
He's like, that's a beaver den.
And you could tell by looking at it whether or not it's used or whether it's abandoned.
But this guy didn't know that shit because it was at nighttime.
So he's running down this road and just jumps into the river and finds a beaver den and just says, fuck it, let's take a chance.
It's Yellowstone, and the introduction of wolves...
They've dwindled the population of deer and elk down, and because they've made the populations lower, the soil around rivers has gotten less erosion because more plants are growing on it, and then more rodents are surviving, more rabbits are surviving, and then more bears, and bears kill the fawns, and it changes literally because of the fact that there's more beavers.
And more badass because this guy has an English accent.
unidentified
...when wolves were reintroduced in 1995. Now, we all know that wolves kill various species of animals, but perhaps we're slightly less aware that they give life to many others.
Before the wolves turned up, they'd been absent for 70 years.
The numbers of deer, because there was nothing to hunt them, had built up and built up in the Yellowstone Park.
And despite efforts by humans to control them, they'd managed to reduce much of the vegetation there to almost nothing.
They'd just grazed it away.
But as soon as the wolves arrived, even though they were few in number, they started to have the most remarkable effects.
First, of course, they killed some of the deer, but that wasn't the major thing.
Much more significantly, they radically changed the behaviour of the deer.
The deer started avoiding certain parts of the park, the places where they could be trapped most easily, particularly the valleys and the gorges.
And immediately, those places started to regenerate.
In some areas, the height of the trees quintupled In just six years, their valley size quickly became forests of aspen and willow and cottonwood.
And as soon as that happened, the birds started moving in.
The number of songbirds and migratory birds started to increase greatly.
The number of beavers started to increase because beavers like to eat the trees.
And beavers, like wolves, are ecosystem engineers.
They create niches for other species.
And the dams they built in the rivers provided habitats for otters, muskrats, and ducks, and fish, and reptiles, and amphibians.
You know he went to a fancy school and he was paddled.
The number of rabbits and mice began to rise, which meant more hawks, more weasels, more foxes, more badgers.
Ravens and bald eagles came down to feed on the carrion that the wolves had left.
Bears fed on it too, and their population began to rise as well, partly also because there were more berries growing on the regenerating shrubs.
And the bears reinforced the impact of the wolves by killing some of the calves of the deer.
Whereas the British accents are regional but also class-based.
So that guy, in speaking the way he's speaking, is telling you he went to Eton, and then he went to Cambridge, and his parents had lots of money, and his family's had lots of money for a long time.
A British person listens to three words and knows where that guy's from, where he went to school, his whole scene.
Well, because that flag, that's why everyone has a problem with that flag, because that flag indicates a war that was partially fought over keeping slaves, over the right to keep slaves.
Like, you wanted to keep your slaves.
Right.
And these sons of bitches up north were telling you that you couldn't do that anymore, and that's a big problem for your economy.
Because, you know, you weren't just making money from the slaves working, but the slave trade itself, you were making tons of money, too.
I'm not saying that the FBI. I'm saying it's one of those internet things where someone has supposedly found a freedom of information article from 1947 that shows that Hitler escaped in a fucking submarine.
They say that they incinerated his body, or supposedly his body was set on fire, and then the bones don't match the bones of a male, and then he went to South America and lived a really good life.
The guy who was the head of NASA was a hardcore Nazi.
They hung the five slowest workers, whether it was every day or once a week, whatever it was.
They would hang them in front of their rocket factory in Berlin.
They would just take the five slowest workers and hang them.
And one of the guys, there was a documentary that this guy did on the moon landings, and he started interviewing people that were in the concentration camps that knew, like, had seen Wernher von Braun walk in, had seen all these different, like, high-level Nazi scientists walk in.
There's the rocket factories.
Wernher von Braun's rocket factories used Jewish slaves and murdered them.
So, I mean, he's a fucking, he was a monster, and he was the head of NASA. Jesus.
Yeah, he was a real monster.
I mean, people try to sugarcoat that because of the fact the guy did amazing things with rocketry.
But, you know, it's, well, it wasn't his idea.
Well, you got to understand that.
Please.
They hung the five slowest fucking people in front of his rocket factory in Berlin.
I don't know if you guys, if we talked about this, but a couple weeks ago I interviewed a guy named Bruce Lisker for my podcast who was in prison in California.
San Quentin, for a lot of it, for 26 and a half years for killing his mother when he was 17, which he did not do.
And man, he is amazing.
He's an amazing dude.
He's like, he is so not bitter.
It's unbelievable.
And I asked him at the beginning of the podcast, I was like, dude, when...
I thought when I met you that I would be sitting next to a ticking time bomb of a guy explosive with rage, and you're so chilled out.
I feel like I'm sitting here with Mandela.
And he said, they tried to destroy my life for 26 and a half years.
Man, I love that attitude, because that attitude is saying, fuck you to your past.
And it's like, you know, because when you meet people who are rationalizing being an asshole from their past, you know, they have this story they keep telling about their shitty family, their abusive parents, their awful, whatever it is.
You have empathy for them, but simultaneously you realize how they're recreating that story every time they bring it up, every time they talk about this awful thing that happened to them.
It's like in Buddhism it's compared to making a necklace, like beading a necklace, and every moment you're sort of recreating yourself again and again and again.
And when people have experiences like that and they're like, no.
I'm not gonna let that be the anchor that pulls me down into a negative life.
I can reinvent myself in this very moment right now, regardless of whatever happened to me, regardless of my past, that's all gone.
And he said, like, really, who knows where I would be right now if this hadn't happened, right?
Maybe I'd be dead.
Maybe I would have had a car accident.
Maybe, you know, something else would have happened to me.
There's no way to predict it.
So the fact that I'm here now is unavoidably a good thing.
I'm here.
I'm intact.
You know, and his experience of prison was very moving and not really what I was expecting.
Like he said, you know, sexual abuse and that sort of thing was not an issue for him.
And fighting like four or five times, he had to like stand up to someone.
And he said he got, I think, if I remember correctly, he said like he got his ass kicked, but he had to establish that there was a limit.
You couldn't push him past.
That was...
The main thing.
But he's a cool guy.
And yeah, the way I met him was that what happened was his father died.
His father never believed that he killed his mother.
And in fact, the way he got into it was so fucked up.
He's 17. He goes in.
The detective who was running the investigation just had a bug up his ass and decided he did it and would not be swayed from that conclusion, right?
But there was no evidence.
The evidence was manufactured, fucked around.
Anyway, so what they told him was, plead out.
And they said, you're 17, you say you did it, you'll do juvie for a year or two, then you'll do one or two years in a medium security, and you're out, right?
So he took the advice.
His father encouraged him to take the advice from the lawyer.
He pleaded guilty, went in, and then he started getting interviewed by psychiatrists, prison psychiatrists, right?
And they kept reporting that he wasn't showing remorse.
So this charade that he could just sign the paper and go in for a few years and be out was bullshit because he had to go through 100% and actually act as if he had done it and he was so remorseful and crying and oh my god.
And he couldn't do that because the guy's got some fucking integrity, right?
Yeah, and so his father died and he left some money, 15 grand or something, and he used that money to hire a private detective to go back and sort of refigure, look at the evidence again.
This guy did, ran, blew through the money, but the detective, by the time the money was gone, was like convinced that this was all bullshit.
So he was like, fuck it, I'm doing it pro bono.
And he kept going at it.
And then he got a couple of guys from the LA Times to write about the case.
And my aunt saw the article and sent $100 to the fund to help him.
Who set him up, who lied about the evidence, who then...
Here's the kicker, as Bruce said.
The guy who got me thrown into jail got me out.
And the way he got me out was by pushing too hard.
Because what he did was this same detective throughout his career, every time Bruce's case came up for parole...
Or probation, I don't know which it is.
This guy would come to the hearing, and you talk about how terrible he was, how evil he was, and blah, blah, blah.
He came to a hearing like 25 years into it, and he said, not only is this guy definitely guilty, but I have found more evidence now, 25 years later, because there was money missing from the mother.
And so one of the ideas was the motive was to rob his mother of a couple hundred dollars.
And this detective said, I went back and I got into the house, you know, new owners and all that, and they claimed that they had found the money and In the crawl space in this kid's former bedroom.
Right?
So, you know, now the case is even stronger than it was 25 years ago.
Denied.
Bomb.
That this detective goes back, interviews all the people who had owned the house, and they all said, we never called the police.
Well, it's that culture of, you know, shunning rats, you know, culture of going after the people that investigate.
But if those people didn't investigate, look what happened in Miami during, you ever see the movie Cocaine Cowboys?
Documentary about Miami?
Miami was so crazy at one point in time that the entire police graduating squad of, you know, the whatever, the academy, the police academy, graduating class, the entire group was either arrested for corruption or murdered.
It's one of these things, man, like, you know, like...
When you watch cops and you realize what you're actually watching is just people getting arrested for something that shouldn't be illegal, it's really hard to enjoy it anymore.
Like, you know, like a victorious cop who's found some drugs on a person and then acts like he's doing some heroic thing?
It's like, what are you doing?
You're just chaining up a skinny guy who wanted to feel good, man.
You're not...
Oh, did you hear about this case where there are undercover cops in a high school?
You go to find bad people, you have to deal with dangerous situations.
If you could just coerce some 17-year-old boy to sell you weed and then lock him in a cage, and you still get that little check on your win column...
You're happy to do it because it perverts what the action is.
The noble law enforcement officer, the noble soldier, those are really important aspects of any society that wants to stay safe because we don't have perfect humans yet.
We don't have a perfect race.
We don't have a perfect culture.
So what you're dealing with is just an organism that is following the rules and they...
Subvert and pervert these rules in order to be successful.
The same way people cheat on their SATs.
The same way people take steroids and get caught in the Olympics.
The same way, you know, all these different things that people do that they're not supposed to do, but they do because they just want to win more than they want anything else.
Spanish cops and American cops, completely different.
Now, they're different for cultural reasons having to do with the military, I think, first of all.
I think a lot of American cops are ex-military.
They come back.
There are no jobs.
best job opportunities are in law enforcement.
They're already accustomed to the sort of discipline and the uniform and the, you know, the weapons and all that kind of stuff.
So they've got, a lot of them are suffering from PTSD and they've got a very us versus them attitude from the military.
They've served in Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever.
They come back and they've got that same attitude in LA or in Petaluma or wherever the fuck they're working.
So that's a problem.
The other issue is the legal system.
The American legal system is based, as you were just pointing out on rules, right?
If you break the rule, that's illegal.
European legal system is a different – the trigger is not that you broke the rule.
The trigger is that somebody complained, that you bothered somebody.
So there are no Spanish cops flying over the city with infrared cameras on helicopters looking for grow rooms.
They're just not doing it.
Because unless someone complains, they don't give a shit.
It's the same thing with parking.
It's like, if you're blocking traffic, they'll give you a ticket.
If you're just parking in an area where the thing says from 3 to 6 and not from 4 to 2 or whatever it is, they don't give a fuck.
I mean, I've experienced it directly with them where I'm parking my motorcycle and there's this big, long line of motorcycles on the Ramblas, in the pedestrian area of the Ramblas in Barcelona.
And I go to this cop and I know you're not allowed to park there, but there are like 15 motorcycles.
And the cops stand in there and I say to him, can I park here or what?
And he's like, no, but normally we won't do anything.
And so he was putting kids in detention centers, juvenile detention centers, when they were young.
They were like teenagers, taking them away from their mothers and getting them raped, getting them beat up, putting them in with all these abused kids.
When you start realizing that the criminals have done the exact same thing that pedophiles do, like, pedophiles, they will get jobs working at schools because they want to be around kids all the time.
They're predatory and they do that.
In the same way criminals, the really smart criminals, they recognize that the best place to be if you're a criminal is in the legal system working there.
That's the best place to be.
If you're a judge and a criminal, you're fucking set, man.
You're a judge.
If you're a criminal and you're a senator, if you're a criminal and you're in the government, that's where the top crème de la crème of the criminals go to the fucking legal system and into the government because that's where they have the most power and are the least likely to get busted.
You know?
The dumb criminals are the ones who stay on the other side of the law.
The smart criminals are the ones who infiltrate, get in there, and then start exploiting people in the exact same way.
And then they don't get arrested.
They arrest.
That's where it's fucked up.
Because, let's face it, in the laws of the land, it is not criminal to put A skinny guy in handcuffs, take away his house, throw him in jail, ruin his life.
In this land, it's not legal.
It's not criminal.
But in the law, in a greater truth, it's a criminal act.
In the same way that in Nazi Germany, it wasn't criminal to incinerate Jews.
You could do that.
But from history's perspective, it was an atrocity.
So in the same way, it's an atrocity in a very small scale.
If you're...
Destroying people's lives over nothing!
I know we've talked about this a million times, and I don't know if there's even much you could do except shake your fist at some monolithic power that seems to have infiltrated everything and hope for the best, but goddammit, man.
Aren't you a little terrified that one day you'll end up with fucking...
Ankle manacles on wearing that bright safety orange thing as you get sucked through that satanic maze of lawyers and eventually just land in a tiny little cell.
Like, what if everyone in the world decided to no longer break the law?
What would they do?
What would they do if everyone drove the speed limit just for a day?
If everyone in Los Angeles drove the speed limit for a month, like nobody ever made a single traffic violation, what would they do?
If they have a quota, what is that quota based on?
Is it based on a zero-sum evolutionary point?
Like, there's no way we're going to ever evolve past this, so we'll never stop speeding, we'll never stop crashing into each other, we'll never stop...
We're banking on complete failure.
Banking on no growth.
Because if there's growth, what are you going to adjust?
You're going to say, well, I guess we can't rely on speeding tickets anymore because people don't speed?
The fuck?
That's like a $50 million a month bill that the city gets.
Man, I was talking to this guy the other night, and I was saying, I don't know if I'm going to have kids, and I'm starting to feel happier and happier about that.
And he looks at me, and he's like, That is a very selfish perspective to have.
Because everyone that I know that's awesome is a person.
The idea that a hugely destructive thing is bringing a person into this life, you're going to bring...
If you create a good person...
What you're going to do is you're going to bring into this world someone who's going to interact with countless people in their life and most likely have a good personality and shed a good example of what a human being can be.
Not just interacting with people that are genetically related to you.
Interacting with all of us.
And if you can contribute in any way.
There's a lot of people that are great parents that contribute to this world by being a great parent, by raising someone who's going to influence other people.
And a lot of them don't necessarily get too much credit for that.
But I think it's like you get credit for making a great painting and being a fucking complete schizophrenic outside of that.
And everybody's like, oh, he's a brilliant genius.
But you don't get credit for raising a human being and developing the personality of a human being or assisting in the development of a person's perceptions and views of the world.
That's an incredible resource.
Yeah.
And the idea that every one of them is just fucking up the world, whatever.
There's too many of us, there's too much pollution, it's not changing, the global warming is happening, whether you like it or not, whether you blame it on democratic vagina sponsors, whatever you do, it doesn't matter.
Well, I mean, look, my whole worldview is layered, right?
It's like there's an optimist inside a pessimist surrounded by an optimist.
It's like atmospheric layers.
So essentially, I agree with Joe that who gives a shit?
It's fucked.
That's the optimism, right?
But within that, I don't know if that sounds like optimism, but that's what it is because it's like, well, if it's fucked, then I don't need to worry, right?
so I can be optimistic and happy.
But within that, there is the sense that, okay, look, we are a scourge on the planet where We're sucking up the resources, spewing out toxins, destroying everything.
And some of us do that at a higher rate than others.
Americans at a higher rate than anyone, right?
We create more carbon, more plastic, more everything.
We use more energy.
So having an American baby from an environmental point of view is not a good thing for the trajectory of the planet.
Now, Within Joe's context, it's all fucked anyway.
The trajectory's going over a cliff, so have a good time.
The only thing that's going to help that is human innovations.
At this point in time, the momentum of creating things is so out of control that the only thing that's going to be able to put a halt to it is a human being that's really smart, that figures out how to do it sustainably.
A human being...
That figures out what one or series or a group or a movement that figures out how to engineer society the same way we've engineered many other aspects of our society or our world that make us able to walk down the street and not worry about getting eaten by a lion.
Okay, so by that logic, how dare you get chemotherapy for cancer?
It's part of the whole.
It's your organism having its mutations that just happened.
I think the mutations of cancer are similar to the mutation that's happened to our species, where it's a thing that grows out of control and threatens to destroy the host.
And number two, as far as getting chemotherapy, which I didn't get, but if you do have cancer and you get chemotherapy, what you're doing is healing yourself.
So then I believe that by reducing human population to the very, very small level where it's not impacting the planet, that's the natural healing process of the planet.
Just like it's the nature of someone who is afraid to die to figure out a way to survive.
The nature of a person who's worried about their finite existence creating immortality.
It's also natural.
All of it's natural.
The human curiosity itself is natural.
Human innovation, human imagination, all those things are natural.
So we just live in a much more complex world that we've created because we've created all these other variables within our nature that we don't like to think of as natural.
But really, plastic is fucking natural.
It comes out of people.
They pull it out of the ground.
It's not like we make it in a fucking portal.
We zap it out of the multiverse and print it up the 3D printer.
No, we're fucking taking things out of the earth and we make it.
Everything's natural.
Every fucking component of the universe that we can measure is in fact natural.
It's annoying for zero amount of time if you take it and you put it in your pocket.
It's a creep move.
It's a creepy, selfish move when people throw them out the window of their car when they're driving on the highway.
That's a creepy, selfish person.
Because if you've got any awareness at all, the last thing you do is throw a fucking cigarette out the window, especially in California, where that's responsible for what percentage of the fires that happen out here?
Anyway, Edward Abbey's this funny, like cantankerous, kind of like, who were we talking about earlier?
Gonzo, Hunter S. Thompson, kind of that kind of character, right?
And he wrote this book where he was cruising down the highway throwing cans of beer out the window, like he'd finish the beer and throw it out the window.
And he was very popular among environmentalists.
In fact, Earth First, that movement started based on one of his books called The Monkey Wrench Gang.
But anyway, Edward Abbey was like, fuck it, the beer can's not the litter, the highway's the litter.
Yeah, I just think that the moment you start saying, like, no, this thing itself is the corruption.
You're the corruption, Abby.
How about that?
Like, just deal with your own self.
I think that's what it comes down to.
Deal with the fucking pollution inside of you.
You know, that's got to be it.
Deal with what's going on in the tiny little acreage of nature that you are.
That's it.
First start in there and then like before you're looking at roads and deciding that roads are evil or whatever.
First start in there, I'm talking to myself.
I waggle my finger at just about everything and call it evil.
So I'm a hypocrite in that.
But I do think that the more you can pull your tentacles out of the world with all your tentacles pointing at this is bad and that's bad and that's bad and bring it back into you and see if you can find peace in there.
Find tranquility in there.
If you can find equilibrium in yourself, you're probably going to stop doing a lot of the things that are causing pollution in the world, I bet.
Maybe not, but I would bet that if you could find a way to find stability and peace, you're going to treat people better.
You're not going to be so inclined to...
To do selfish things.
When you're happy, you oftentimes become less selfish.
Don't believe me?
Chomp on some fucking ecstasy.
Eat some really good MDMA and then see how you start acting.
And you're seeing the way you act when you're in a bliss state.
And generally, what do you do when you're on ecstasy?
How often do you hear, yeah man, I got on ecstasy and then got in a fucking bar fight.
I just felt like beating the shit out of that guy as being a real dick.
It's like when you wake up from getting high on ecstasy, your regrets always involve being too effusive with your friends.
Like, I'll come to after an ecstasy trip and be like, oh god.
But you're moving to a different conversation, which is, is it all good?
Is it all bad?
Of course not.
What I'm objecting to is the idea, because I'm going to be dealing with this a lot in this book, the idea that you can't criticize civilization if you participate in it.
The argument isn't that you can't criticize civilization.
It's that civilization, much like almost everything, is incredibly nuanced.
There's a lot of parts to it.
And some of the parts, I feel like most of the parts are fucking amazing.
Most of the parts of not having to worry about most of the diseases that used to wipe out the population.
Not having to worry about gathering your food, not having to worry about sewage, not having to worry about information and education, not having to worry about social structures, not having to worry about being fucking invaded by rival Mongol herds and shit.
The amazing aspects of civilization, in my opinion, far outweigh the cancerous element of the very human being.
And now let me flip the whole thing back on you and say the reason you feel that way is that you were raised in civilization.
So just like the Navajos call themselves the people, and the Apache call themselves the people, and the Iroquois, everybody believes that the time and place they live in is the place to be.
And so a lot of your information about comparing civilization to pre-civilized times is mutated and distorted by the fact that you are from this time and place, right?
You've got a vested interest in believing that.
For example, you said, oh, I wouldn't want to have to worry about dying from all these diseases everyone died from.
Fact is, like the top five killers of human beings, all those diseases jumped over to humans from domesticated animals.
So they didn't exist in any important sense before civilization.
And there's no doubt that everyone in every point in time throughout history was in the time that they were in and the best time for human beings, according to them.
I'm not saying that civilization is the only way to live life and if we were living back in the tribal days of 6,000 plus years ago in the Amazon or whatever the fuck it was when people were living without any possibility of anything being any different.
The difference between us now and then is the incredible possibilities that civilization provides.
I personally find those things enriching and fascinating and I would rather hang out with people of today We don't always say what we mean.
So if I'm walking through a group of people and I'm thinking, here I am among the locusts.
Look at them devouring the earth.
If I think like that, then suddenly I am living in a...
I'm just basically another sticky little bit of scabies on some herpes-infested prostitute's vagina.
But then if I look around and think, wow, man, these are all expansions of the Earth.
These are all expressions of the universe.
Here is the universe expressing itself, and this is nature.
Sure, I'm not in South America.
I'm not surrounded by green and trees, and I don't hear the sounds of the jungle, but I am still surrounded by the natural world, taking a very specific form of manifesting in a specific way we call civilization.
And the moment I see it like that, suddenly things get better.
I leave open the possibility of a higher intelligence just based on the fact that if you look at the senses that some animals provide, there's a lot of animals, a lot of life forms on this planet that literally don't have the senses to detect us.
Because we're not involved in their world on a regular basis.
Certain animals, you wave your hand over a slug, they have no fucking idea you're there.
They don't care.
There's certain animals that are like that, that don't have the ability to perceive whether it's fungus or whether it's microorganisms or whatever it is.
Why would we assume that this is the end of the line?
Why would we assume that in our complex, very limited in fact, we have so few senses we have them numbered, I mean, why would we assume that those are the only senses to be had and there's not some sort of next step, next dimension?
The difference between oceanic creatures with no eyeballs and a person living in a penthouse in Manhattan might as well call that a different dimension.
And why would we assume that this is the end of the line, that our ability to perceive and adjust our material world is the only one like that out there, and there's not something way more advanced that exists in the very fiber of the universe itself that we can't detect yet because we're primitive?
Yeah, well, we use the term die to refer to that moment of radical change that happens in everything in the universe when it goes from being from one form to the next.
But it isn't really a death.
It's just a radical, radical fucking change, you know?
And then these are considered, like, Ram Dass talks about this, how there's these channels that you can dial into, and you get to decide what channel you want to dial into.
So if you want to live in, like, the Fox News dimension...
You can live there, where you're constantly, your fists are clenched, you're watching Bill O'Reilly, everything Obama does makes you want to fucking kill yourself or kill somebody else, and your stomach is bubbling, you're chain-smoking and listening to Rush Limbaugh and beeping at anyone who cuts in front of you in the wrong way.
That's a dimension.
You're in a dimension.
You're in a specific universe where you're at war with all these liberals, blah, blah, blah.
Ann Coulter is the goddess, whatever.
But there are all these different channels that you can tune into, And one of them is this channel where you just believe that everything's perfect.
And that is blasphemy to a lot of people.
They don't want to fucking hear that.
They don't want to hear that everything's perfect.
Because then they say, look at the fucking radiation!
Fukushima!
Holocaust!
People dying!
Cancer kids!
The hyenas are killing the fucking elk!
We're all dying.
Everything's on fire.
The sun's going to supernova.
How dare you say everything's perfect, you know?
But if you start just playing around with that idea and tuning into that idea that, no, no, no, this is perfect.
This is a beautiful universe.
I look at the Hubble telescope and I see those incredible...
Just deep fields of stars out there, and I see the supernovas, and I see all these things, and I don't think, oh god, the violence of the supernova as it evaporates everything around it.
I don't think, oh god, the monster black hole sucking this dimension into it, and I don't think any scientist or cosmologist would look at that and be like, that is violence happening and evil.
Yet somehow when it gets down to us, these little fucking little meaty things, that's where the thing's malfunctioning now?
Wild pigs and domestic pigs are the same exact animal.
And Steve Rinello is explaining that, that wild pigs, I forget the exact term, what the pig, you know, what gender it is, but when they move out, like you get a wild pig and you release it out into the wild, within three weeks they start changing.
We went hunting them and we were in this place called Tejon Ranch.
Where that door is, which is probably, what, 20 feet away, 30 feet away?
That close, pigs were fighting in the bushes.
And we're standing there with rifles, and the bushes are rattling like it's Jurassic Park.
And you hear...
Going at it with each other and they have tusks and these crazy looking, wild, shaggy, dark things.
That's the same as Babe.
It's the same goddamn animal depending upon the circumstances.
If they have to fend for themselves, if you take out all the aggression of the natural world so they don't have to be on point from the moment they're born, they don't have to be aware of predators, little piggies, they're not afraid of shit.
And another indication for me is just there are, I mean, I'm no mathematician, but there are some like mathematical principles that are just too fucking beautiful to be random.
And I mean, I've had experiences traveling, I'm sure you guys have had experiences where it's like, holy shit, that can't have just happened.
You know, there's no rational way to understand how that just happened.
But a sort of universal one, which I ended Sex at Dawn with is the sun-moon thing.
Do you know about this?
Okay, so the moon is obviously a fraction of the size of the Earth, right?
Anyway, so the Moon's much smaller than the Earth, and the Sun is far, far, hundreds of thousands of times larger, right?
And as you said, the Moon is very important.
Obviously, it's important to every civilization or every culture that's ever existed.
The Moon is often seen as feminine because of the changes and its association with menstruation and so on and so forth.
And the Sun, obviously, is super...
Those are the two most important things that anyone's ever thought about in terms of immediately obvious symbols.
And they appear to be exactly the same size in the sky because the distance of the sun exactly compensates for its larger diameter.
That's interesting.
So you have to, if you take the diameter of the moon divided by the distance from the surface of Earth, it equals the diameter of the sun divided by the distance.
So that those two things appear exactly the same.
And you have these solar eclipses where the disk of the moon perfectly covers the disk of the sun.
That is mathematically like, how the fuck did that happen?
There's no reason, mathematically, for that to happen.
You look at what the moons of Jupiter look like from the surface of Jupiter, they have no relation to the size of the sun seen from the surface of Jupiter.
Because there's a thing called Bode's Law that, based on the amount of mass that a planet has, you can accurately predict where the next planet will be.
And it works, apparently.
It's a Jovian planet.
It's a large planet that is not primarily composed of rock or any solid matter.
And, you know, those aren't uniform, but, I mean, there are many things in nature that are.
I mean, the Fibonacci sequence that exists in flowers and pine cones and all these different things, I mean, it's essentially perfect geometric patterns.
And there it is right there all the time, right next to you.
If you just take a little bit of time to get yourself out of the perception, whatever the perception is that you've become accustomed to.
And that is, like, that's what they call...
I mean, in, like, occult systems or in magic, that's, like, one of the first things you want to do is to, like...
Pull yourself out of whatever your conditioned patterns are so that you could see the world as living, even for a moment.
I really love chaos magic because it's like a postmodern form of magic that isn't based on, like, this magic is real, like Harry Potter shit.
It's based on, if you can change the way you feel, Then you're going to change your life.
If you can induce certain mood states inside of you, then you're going to be more inspired.
You're going to write better.
You're going to be a better athlete.
So that's what it is.
The rituals that you use to induce those states, that's what magic is.
That's one form of magic.
The idea is one really fun experiment you can do.
It's really cool, man.
This is in a book I read about chaos magic.
Go to, like, a place where there's shitloads of people, and you put yourself in a intentionally paranoid state.
Not paranoid as in you're afraid, but paranoid as in the sense that everything happening around you is the universe conversing with you.
For, like, 15 minutes, now the universe is talking to you.
So every accident, every moment, every t-shirt that has something written on it, every song that you hear is related to answering whatever your question is.
It's like an oracle or something like that.
And because our minds consist not just of the conscious, but also the subconscious, suddenly you'll start seeing reflections of your subconscious in the workings of the world around you.
And that can answer your question or give you some kind of, like, information that you're seeking.
It really is the information coming from the world or inside of you.
It doesn't matter if you find a solution that gives you a course of action to take that betters your life, you know?
So, it's good to not think that we're...
I don't mean to keep going back to this, but if you think that you're a plague from a cult lens, that would be a spell that you're casting.
That would be considered a ritual.
You know what I mean?
That's like an actual – you're actually going to induce a specific reaction from the universe around you that maybe won't be so good.
Because if you're a fucking locust, what's the universe around you?
I think there's no denying that there's several factors involved in your life and shaping your life.
And I think there has to be some impact other than attitudinal, if that's a word, that comes out of the way you perceive things.
That it might not just be, oh, well, you're looking at things the wrong way, you're going to be sad.
No, it might be that you're shaping the energy that you produce, that you're shaping what you put out, you're shaping how people receive you, and that may in turn shape the very physical world around you the same way wolves change rivers.
Just get yourself all worked up in a nice paranoid froth, which I am quite good at doing, and then go into the world and you'll notice everyone's a dick.
Have you ever noticed that when you're really, you know, like all of a sudden it's like, God, man, everyone's being such a fucking cunt today.
When I was traveling a lot, I first noticed this sort of phenomenon.
I always thought of it as the on-the-crowded-bus phenomenon.
I get on the bus in Mexico, whatever.
All the seats are taken.
I'm standing there.
It's a five-hour bus ride.
I'm, like, tired.
You know, I haven't slept.
I've got diarrhea.
And I'm sort of, like, leaning on the seat and the dude whose shoulder my ass touches occasionally is kind of getting uptight.
And I'm thinking, what an asshole that guy is, you know.
Fuck, I'm standing here, you know.
Least he could do is let me lean on the seat without giving me shit, whatever.
And then the guy gets up, gets off the bus, I sit down, someone else is standing there, and their ass starts touching my shoulder, and I get pissed off!
And I'm like, it all depends on where I am, you know?
Like, I am such a fucking hypocrite because my perception of this situation is not accurate.
It's, you know, or it is accurate in both cases, but both cases are true.
Can we induce that state of feeling love, in love, whatever you want to call it, minus a condition?
So in other words, is there a way to actually, do we have the control or is it already inside of us to find this place where we're constantly experiencing that feeling of intense love wherever we go?
Because if you're feeling that the traffic doesn't suck, nothing really sucks.
You know, I said this on Ari's podcast, which is like, Do something you love with someone you hate and something you hate with someone you love.
And you'll see how potent the state of feeling and love is.
Because if you do something you hate with someone you love, you don't hate the fucking thing anymore.
But if you do something you love with someone who sucks...
It was a substitute for war among the Iroquois and the people...
Who lived in northeast U.S. and part of Canada.
So what they did was they developed this game, and there was no field initially.
There was like a hoop that they would put on a stick in one part of the woods and the other one in the other part of the woods, and they had the sticks and all that.
And you would, like, fuck people up.
You'd kill people along the way.
You'd, like, stab people with your stick.
And I don't know if this is true in all cases, but in many cases, the losing team, whoever was still surviving, would then be tortured and killed.
And also, I mean, being tortured among those people, when you were talking about the nez per se earlier, I was thinking that sounded to me like the people in that part of North America and the East, because there was a lot of torturing and eating of victims.
And you would be tortured and killed, running the gauntlet, you know?
That's from those tribes.
And they would get everybody out there, old ladies, everybody, and you'd have to run down through this line, and they'd hit you with spiked sticks, and they'd just fuck you up as you went down this corridor.
They provide awesome content, but it's another one of those examples of just because something does something awesome doesn't mean it's not inherently fucked as well as being awesome.
Werner Von Braun was a cunt, but he was also a brilliant rocket scientist.
Where he shows – John Ronson shows that executives, high-achieving executives, bankers, stockbrokers, military people, politicians have a much higher rate of psychopathy than normal people.
It's the ambition represented in a form of fuckery.
It's represented in cheating.
It's represented in evil behavior.
There's absolutely ethical competition.
And Anything less than ethical competition should be dishonorable and it should be preferable to be poor.
And that's the problem.
There's a lack of honor and there's a lack of a code.
And one of the reasons being is that our society and the rules that have been thrust upon us In many ways, it's so ridiculous that we reject it.
Yeah, you shouldn't probably walk across the street randomly anywhere and jaywalk and make people slam on their brakes.
But you shouldn't make me pay money because I walked across the street.
Why do you get money?
What is jaywalking?
What is that?
There's a lot of those things.
There's a lot of those things.
Parking tickets.
All sorts of stupid things about speeding quotas, where fundamentally, yeah, you probably shouldn't speed, you shouldn't put people in danger, but who the fuck are you to pull people over and make them write paper?
What?
Because we elected someone to be in a position to control the traffic and this is your solution?
This is a stupid fucking solution, man.
This whole thing sucks.
You guys need to steal money from people every year just to pay your fucking salaries.
You're not even funded.
You're funded by the fact that people are getting robbed.
You're pulling people over for rolling through a stop sign.
You're a cunt.
You know, the whole thing's cunt-ish.
You're in a cunt business.
And that seems fundamentally to be the problem, is that we don't have codes, that we don't have a clear ethical structure for our society that's based on being nice to people and raising nice children and stopping abuse at the fundamental level of childhood and child-rearing and making and developing shitty human beings that further...
In music, one doesn't make the end of a composition...
The point of the composition.
If that was so, the best conductors would be those who played fastest.
And there would be composers who wrote only finales.
People go to conferences just to hear one crashing chord, because that's the end!
But we don't see that as something brought by our education into our everyday conduct.
We've got a system of schooling that gives a completely different impression.
It's all graded.
And what we do is we put the child into the corridor of this grade system with a kind of, come on, kitty, kitty, kitty.
And, yeah, you go to kindergarten, you know.
And that's a great thing because when you finish that, you'll get into first grade.
And then come on, first grade leads to second grade, and so on, and then you get out of grade school, you've got high school, and it's revving up, the thing is coming, then you're going to go to college, and by a joke then you get into graduate school, and when you're through with graduate school, you go out and join the world.
And then you get into some racket where you're selling insurance.
And they've got that quota to make.
And you're going to make that.
And all the time this thing is coming.
It's coming.
It's coming.
That great thing.
The success you're working for.
Then when you wake up one day about 40 years old, you say, my God, I've arrived.
I'm there.
And you don't feel very different from what you always felt.
And there's a slight letdown because you feel there's a hoax.
And there was a hoax.
A dreadful hoax.
They made you miss everything.
We thought of life by analogy with a journey.
With a pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end and the thing was to get to that end.
Success or whatever it is or maybe heaven after you're dead.
But we missed the point the whole way along.
It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played.
When we're talking about the bankers and the people that are handling the money, what percentage of our population is actually bankers versus what percentage of our population is actually ambitious?
It's the poor people getting hauled away, the skinny guy in handcuffs.
So what I'm saying is there's this...
Fundamental hypocrisy at the heart of American society, and many other societies, but particularly American society, where the ethical message is in direct contradiction with the fundamental values of the way the society is structured.
I see what you're saying then about corruption being because of human ambition and that human ambition, when it gets into positions of power, ultimate power corrupting ultimately, that there's almost no way to avoid it.
That maybe it's just that human beings should never be in that kind of a position of power.
Maybe something like a corporation where you can go outside of the laws of human one-on-one interaction.
Maybe something like that just really should have never been allowed to take place.
Because as soon as you allow people to have groups and those groups to have massive influence and then them to benefit personally from that massive influence, the decisions that they make affect so many people and are so gigantic, they're almost anti-human.
And that's essentially what people always accuse corporations of being anti-human.
It's because they've become a part unwittingly of a much larger organism that needs people to live off of but isn't a person.
He was talking about Fred Phelps and that crazy Baptist church, Westboro Baptist Church.
He spent three weeks with the guy.
And he said that one of the weirdest aspects of his trip was that after three weeks, although it didn't change his views of the world, he thought all the things they were saying, you know, God hates fags and all that, was very horrific.
It became normal and commonplace.
It became like the impact of it was less because he had been around it for so long that he had been sort of acclimated to it.
And he thinks it's one of the ways that these people get away in their own mind with doing this and sort of connecting it to the idea that this is God's word is because they just get so accustomed to it.
Yeah, but hopefully, it's not hopefully, like, the idea is, like, if, you know, you get one really fucking happy person, and that happy person is going to change the people around them.
Well, I think he's going to be looked at in the future as a revolutionary.
He's going to be looked at as a guy who sacrificed his own safety to save the culture.
And, you know, when you see that guy do that video conference from South by Southwest and there's a giant standing ovation, what other person who's being shielded by another country, a country that we always think of as evil, gets treated like that?
What other criminal that's running from the long arm of the government He's hiding.
Literally, he calls himself like a large house cat.
Anyone could easily take a point of view of either one of us, especially if they, you know, had us stuck in a house somewhere, that you were a total piece of shit.
Because you become some gigantic controversial figure and you might have jeopardized American safety by releasing military secrets and there's so many variables there that it's so easy to label you a cunt.
Plus you look like a cunt.
You know, he looks like a cunt.
His fucking silvery hair and his fucking posh accent.
Fuck that guy.
That's what everybody thinks.
And then you hear all this crazy shit about him, you know, being creepy to women and, oh, I saw that coming.
What kind of a balance does that show when you look at what people are getting arrested for and not getting arrested for?
Yeah, that's a shithead thing to do, and that girl shouldn't hang out with that guy anymore.
But if you did go out with him again afterwards, well, people are allowed to make mistakes.
But you're not allowed to lock that guy up in a fucking house for a year and have armies waiting with loaded guns standing outside to take his fucking head off before he can testify.
When your brain malfunctions on larium, it's basically like you're on acid for a couple of months.
Like, you don't just lose your memory.
Walls bend.
There's a suicide note in his book of a guy who was just talking about how it's been like three years and he's still exactly as fucked up as he was when he started taking larium.
A 50-year-old mystery of the cursed bread of Pointe-Saint-Espire, which left residents suffering hallucinations, has been solved after a writer discovered the U.S. had spiked the bread with LSD as part of an experiment.
1951, a quiet, picturesque village in southern France was suddenly mysteriously struck down with mass insanity and hallucinations.
At least five people died, dozens were interned in asylums, and hundreds afflicted.
For decades, it was assumed that the local bread had been unwittingly poisoned with a psychedelic mold.
But now, however, an American investigative journalist has uncovered evidence suggesting that the CIA peppered local food with a hallucinogenic drug, LSD, as a part of a mind-control experiment at the height of the Cold War.
But I don't know what the reference to this is, because this is in the Telegraph.
Is the Telegraph like the Daily Mail, or is it more legit?
There's plenty of videos where they did that with soldiers.
Yeah.
And that's also what the Harvard LSD studies, it's what created the Unabomber.
The Unabomber was a part of the Harvard LSD studies, and when they did him, after he got dosed up, he became a fucking nut.
That's what happened with him.
Ted Kaczynski was in the Harvard LSD studies.
There's a documentary on it called The Net.
And it's about that very situation.
Ted Kaczynski being a part of the Harvard LSD studies, they don't know what the fuck they did to those kids.
They dosed the shit out of those kids.
And he went from there to become a professor, saved up all of his money from school just to be able to buy this cabin in the woods, live there, and plot the demise of technology.
Yeah, he became a fucking complete nutter.
I mean, whether or not he was a nutter before that, who knows?
But the fact remains is that guy was a part of the Harvard LSD studies.
And, you know, they're very secretive about what actually went on in those studies.
Yeah, but that's the problem when you say that, as far as I know.
I don't know what they did either, but if I was fucking up a bunch of people's brains and afterwards people came to interview me, I'd say relatively small doses.
I think that he took his line of reasoning too far, obviously.
He's killing people.
But we could say the same thing about all sorts of politicians and leaders around the world who kill people over an idea that they take too far.
But I think his fundamental argument against civilization has some merit.
I'll just say that.
And then the other thing I wanted to say is there's a difference between pedophiles and pederasts.
And it's something I didn't really understand until I started talking about pedophiles and somebody wrote to me and pointed out that a pedophile is someone who has sexual attraction for people that we consider too young to be appropriate, whether that's at 18 or 16 or 12 or whatever.
Generally prepubescent though.
And a pederast is someone who acts on it.
And that's an important distinction because I remember reading this thing in Dan Savage's column where somebody wrote in to him and said, look, I'm attracted to kids sexually.
I would never touch a kid.
But it's in me.
I can't help it.
It's in me.
I want to.
And I want to get therapy.
I want someone to help me strengthen my resolve never to do this.
But by law, American therapists have to report you if you express a sexual desire toward children.
So this guy is fundamentally prohibited from seeking any help.
There are no, like, group therapy sessions.
There's no—if you're that—you've got that in you, and we know that, you know, kinks of all sorts get placed in a personality and you can't get it out, but you can learn to deal with it, choose how to enact it or not enact it.
But— Pedophiles have no opportunity for that.
In Canada, they do, but in the United States, they can't.
Yeah, they sealed the records from Harvard, class of 1962. They sealed all the records on Kaczynski, and they won't release them.
But it was absolutely a part of something called the Murray Study.
And the Murray Study was, the Murray Center seals Kaczynski data.
This is fucking fascinating shit, man.
They might have cooked that dude's brain.
They might have cooked that dude's brain and created a monster.
But you're right, though.
He sees the future of the industrial society.
That is what he was describing.
You're right, that he sees, like, oh my god, this can only go one way.
But in his crazed state, where he wasn't able to dance and play music like Alan Watts suggested, he was only able to focus on the finish line of the machines taking over the world.
And what a disservice he did for his message because now there's a fucking mail bomb underlining everything he did.
So even if there was a bunch of good stuff, he shit all over his own work because he didn't have the foresight to understand that you're using the tools of the people that you're so angry at to try to change the people you're so angry at.
And, you know, the reality of the United States experimenting, whether or not they really did this with this French town, I should probably throw that into Snopes, right?
Maybe Snopes will be able to tell me that's not true.
Well, how about these latest revelations that they use metadata to find cell phones?
They used the data that says that this is your cell phone, and they want to get you, so they shoot a missile at the cell phone, hoping you're near it.
Like, that is one of the most evil, indiscriminate acts of destruction and murder that you could ever possibly engage in.
You don't care if there's babies next to that cell phone playing fucking Candy Chase on it or whatever these fucking games are that kids play these days.
I just think you can't be anything other than the President of the United States when you're the President of the United States.
It's like, people used to say to me, why don't you say more funny shit when you're hosting Fear Factor?
Well, because that wasn't my job.
My job was to sort of host Fear Factor.
His job is, I mean, terrible analogy, I know, I'm not making Fear Factor in the President of the United States, but I don't think, I think he might, it might be a good analogy because I think he's an actor.
I think he plays a role, and that role is the role of the leader of the free world.
And I don't think anybody's...
There's no leader.
There's a bunch of fucking people that influence whoever is in the position that they call the leader.
Yeah, and I don't think we're ever going to really get a handle on how the whole thing is fucking working.
I just don't think we will, but you can get a good indication either one or two things about Obama.
We think he's affable and he's very friendly and nice, which I agree with.
So if that's the case, why has he done things differently once he got into office than what he said he would do before he got into office?
Is it because once you got in there, he realized that this world is way more fucked and way scarier than anybody could possibly imagine that's not inside the White House?
Or is he just being influenced by some unbelievably powerful machine that he can't do anything about, so he's forced to sort of placate these people that got him into positions of power and do their bidding regardless of what his campaign promises are?
Well, it's just, yeah, I am not an Obama fan, not an Obama defender.
I just can't swallow the fact that he's okay blowing up wedding parties and stuff with drones.
And also, it's hard for me to swallow the fact that he doesn't have the balls to come out, and maybe he can't, but I wish he'd stick up for Snowden and be like, this is a whistleblower, he did a good thing, let's pardon this motherfucker.
I mean, at one point in time, when is this country going to have an Arab Spring moment if they keep fucking with us and taking away personal liberties?
There's going to come a moment where people are not going to want to deal with it anymore.
One of the things that's pretty easy to give up on is marijuana.
Because by golly, look at what's going on in Colorado.
They're profiting from it.
It's become part of the economy that is always there, but now it's officially a part where they're paying taxes.
They're making millions of dollars in taxes in Colorado for marijuana since February.
There will never be an Arab Spring here because the powers that be here are too smart.
What they do is every time the pressure builds up too much, they let out a little pressure by allowing to be elected a cool-seeming black dude, for example, or by allowing the legalization of marijuana, for example.
That lets a little pressure off.
Things, I think, at the end of the Bush presidency and with the economic collapse, the people were angry enough, you know, That something was going to happen.
So they just, like any good negotiator, give something you can afford to lose to keep the other person from pulling out of the deal.
I think that's what happens in this country.
I think the mistake that happens in Arab countries or other countries where their hands are tied by some empire system...
They can't play those games or they're not predisposed to do that.
They don't want to give up any power.
So I think in this country, that's the problem.
We're being numbed by technology.
We think we tweet something.
We've done a revolutionary act.
And every time things really get serious, they'll give a little.
Same thing in the Depression, right?
Things were really serious.
First, they attacked anyone who had anything to do with communism in the 20s, the Red Scare.
You know, then the Depression comes along.
They allow Roosevelt to get in there.
He is able to pass some laws, social security, taking care of old people, dealing with some of the sources of the greatest resentment and anger.
Neutralize those a little bit so we can keep playing the game.
So all the people in a corporation are all possessed by this spirit, and they don't even know they're possessed by it, even though their entire lives are centered around it.
So the spirit is manifesting through the corporation, and you're basically seeing one of the old school deities that people used to worship way back in the day manifesting in a modern way through this organized coven of people who all think they're doing the right thing or their own little thing and you're basically seeing one of the old school deities that people used to worship way back in the day manifesting in Exactly.
It seems to me also that everything fucking changes.
I mean, if you look at the world, you look at the universe, you look at the birth of stars, stellar nurseries, you look at hypernovas, the death of stars, you look at all these different things.
The whole universe is in a constant state of change.
Our idea is that somehow or another we're going to reach some point of peace where everything's going to calm down and we can enjoy our society and our golden years.
It's never going to happen.
It's going to be in a constant state of yin and yang, a push and pull to the very end.
I mean, the existence that we're currently participating in seems to have those laws pretty firm.
The tide goes in, the tide goes out, the fucking planets spin around the stars, the stars explode eventually, the planets dry up, stardust becomes more people, more people figure out the atom, they split that bitch, they fucking start making nuclear weapons, they shoot to the moon, it just keeps going on and on and on.
Like, an endless cycle of the same thing happening over and over and over again, constantly changing...
We're a part of this whole gigantic organism that's known as the Earth, and it's a part of a gigantic organism known as the solar system, which is a part of a gigantic organism known as the universe.
I mean, it's just one piece of the thing, and we're change machines.
This desire for achieving things has a lot to do with that It has a lot to do with us being a part of this weird process Which is why that guy said it was selfish of you not to have kids Because he's spouting the ideology of the machine world, of which we're the sexual organs.
Speaking of breeding and people getting involved in your business, why is it that right-wingers are so uptight about abortion?
Because most abortions are poor people, and you would think their whole thing is demonizing poor people, so you would think that fewer...
You know, non-white poor people would be a good thing from a right-wing perspective, and yet they're participating in creating more of them by making abortion a problem in this country.
Yeah, they have the cloaca, which is this hole where they do what's called a cloacal kiss, where the male and the female will line up their cloacal holes and a little thing from the sperm shoot out of the male into the female.
I was sitting in a camper the other night and this woman says, I remember what it was, and this woman says, well, that's living in the white man's world.
The late 19th, early 20th century in the United States and, of course, in England, the Irish were considered beneath Africans on the scale of evolved human beings.
No, just because they were, like, rougher, harder to deal with, you know, farted in public a lot, you know, things we all know and love about the Irish.
George Carlin had that whole thing where he's like, you know, how come he talked about the Irish oppression and, you know, jobs for Irish and all that.
But he was like, and what the hell is with the fighting Irish?
I'm happy to transfer it wherever we decide to do it, but for the moment, it's on chrisryanphd.com, and you'll see Tri-Podcast tab, and that's where the first three are archived.
It's just a link that leads back to your site and your site.
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Next week, we've got a lot of cool guests coming up, ladies and gentlemen.
We've got Dr. Carl Hart who's going to be on the podcast.
Matt Viterasera, former UFC welterweight champion of the world.
Amber Lyon.
We've got a lot of shit happening.
Thanks for tuning in.
Thanks for all the love.
Have a good time.
We'll see you in Dallas in a couple days, you fucking savages.