Michael Schiavello joins Joe Rogan to dissect K1’s financial collapse—unpaid fighters like Semi Schiltz and Badr Hari, plus staff—debating its appeal vs. MMA’s rise while praising Andy Hug’s brutal axe kick legacy. They contrast Muay Thai’s raw leg-kick dominance with Western boxing defenses, mocking Overeem’s Klitschko claims. Schiavello’s wild dating stories—from nipple-licking Elizabeth to knife-wielding Catherine Zeta-Jones lookalikes—highlight modern intimacy’s chaos, while Rogan jokes about TRT loopholes and urine-test frauds in MMA. The episode ties martial arts struggles to broader societal decay: economic exploitation, doping ethics, and even Australia’s prostitution laws, ending with a speculative take on gay men’s perceived sexual attitudes toward women. [Automatically generated summary]
The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is brought to you by The Fleshlight.
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I watch that HD9. I told you, when you got here, when Mike and his wife got here, I was, or his fiancee, rather, I was fucking working out in the garage with his voice on the TV. Yeah, I got it set up so there's a TV back there, and that's all I ever watch.
And then somehow or another, there's not as much money and things are closing.
It seems illogical.
It seems like if you look at it just from a pure resource-based standpoint, okay, there's a certain amount of oil, there's a certain amount of wood, there's a certain amount of plastic, a certain amount of material to make things, a certain amount of desire and need for these things.
So once money gets moving, it pretty much stays moving.
What happens?
What is it that creates some giant hiccup that fucks the whole system sideways?
I mean, if you watch Inside Job or any of these movies on it, you get to find out what it really is and see how deep the corruption is.
But to a layperson like myself, who knows very little about economics...
You know, Michael's been doing the K1 commentary forever and all the great K1 events, the Grand Prix's, the K1 Max and the Max Grand Prix's and the finals.
Fuck, you called some amazing fights.
But apparently it's just not as popular as it used to be.
And now they're hurting financially, unfortunately.
So without the money to be able to pay fighters, how are they even going to stage a Grand Prix this year?
How is the Ream going to get to defend the title if you can't afford your Alistair's and your Barahari's and your Semi-Shultz and your Reambo and Bonjasky's?
God, I really don't see how that isn't a home run if somebody wanted to pick it up.
You know, and I talked to Dana White about this.
I said, dude, have you ever thought about buying the K-1?
And it's like, eh, people don't give a fuck about K-1.
And it's like, you know, people...
You know, don't want to see kickboxing and sort of like PK, karate kind of like ruined it.
Like there's some really good fights, but people, you know, MMA is so huge and so popular that it would almost be like, and I saw his point, it's like almost like creating your own competitor or something like that or building up a business that doesn't exist.
People might say that some kickboxing never took off, or maybe he's not as...
I know Dana doesn't spend nearly as much time watching kickboxing as I do.
I'm a huge K-1 fan, and I love watching it.
I watch it all the time.
There's guys that don't get into it, like Eddie Bravo.
Can't get into it, man.
He goes, I try to watch, and I can't watch it.
Maybe it's just because I started off in striking base martial arts so I can appreciate the Giorgio Petrosians or the Masatos or those kind of characters.
But to me, man, how the fuck do you not want the K1 Heavyweight Grand Prix?
For the people who don't know what we're talking about, this is K1 deep inside shit, Remy is Remy Bonjowski.
Who's one of the greatest kickboxers to ever come out of Holland, which is one of the greatest kickboxing centers in the world, where America has really kind of lost touch with kickboxing.
Holland has really embraced the sport, and it's gigantic over there.
Guys like, you know, Peter Ertz, guys like Ernesto Hust, and, you know, and...
If you want to learn the genuine art of Muay Thai, which is Thailand's national martial art dating back thousands of years and has long been their military martial art, still is their military martial art.
You know, you go to Thailand to learn it.
Any of the great camps over there from Fairtec, Sitchatong, WMC Camp in Koh Samui, and you learn the knees, the elbows, the grappling, and all the Thai techniques.
If you go to Holland, though, what you're primarily learning is modified Thai.
It's the punches, the kicks, and the knees with limited clinching and pretty much no elbows.
You know, they have elbow fights over there, obviously, but the main rules are modified tie, which is knees and no elbows.
Just, I think, for the reason that, you know, the cuts, first of all, stop a very good fight.
As much as I love seeing a good elbow, there are a lot of times, especially commentating Muay Thai, where I rue having elbows in the sport because I've seen some great battles where two guys are going back and forth, just pounding at each other four rounds We go into the fifth round, you think, oh, this is going to go down to the wire.
Could be anyone's fight.
And then some guy throws one elbow that cuts the other dude.
And the cut may not be that deep, but most times they'll tend to stop a fight.
Now, if it cuts over the eyes and it's going to run into the eyes, and I've seen perfectly good fights stopped from cuts.
If you're talking self-defense, I believe Muay Thai is one of the best arts you can learn for self-defense.
It's so complete.
Self-defense reasons, yeah.
For entertainment purposes, though, and especially for television purposes, and where you're trying to grow sports, like in Holland back in the day, and in Japan, how they grew kickboxing since Master Rishi invented K1 in 1993. And the thing was all about television ratings.
You know, K1 used to have a long-time clinching rule where you could put on a Muay Thai clinch and grapple with the guy like you do in Muay Thai.
Till Alistair came and Bob Sapp came along and guys that could hang on to people and just bludgeon them.
So now it's like one hand, one clinch, knee and release.
It's compulsory, if you fight for the WMC in particular, which is the world-sanctioning body, to wear a monkol on your way to the ring.
You have to do it.
You also have to do the Waikuru Ramoy, which is a pre-fight ritual of a Thai fighter that looks like a dance.
I suppose a mix between a dance and a yoga routine, almost.
And...
What they're doing there is, it's very deep meaning.
They're blessing their corner and asking the gods to bless their corner, thank their trainer, and also bless the opposite corner and hope that your opponent doesn't get hurt too much.
And you have to perform this before every single fight, you know, WMC in Thailand in particular.
And these guys can go for a long time.
Some of them I've seen have been up to five minutes long.
You know, it's crazy.
But it's all part of the beautiful, formal history of the sport that they're maintaining.
And in my opinion, that style is the most effective style for stand-up.
There's a lot of techniques that you find in other martial arts like wheel kicks and turning sidekicks that are real knockout techniques.
But if you want to look at one comprehensive package for striking, It's so economical with the leg kicks, the short movements to create big power, the emphasis on power, especially the emphasis on power leg kicks, where they know there's only a certain amount of these you can take.
For a self-defense purpose, if you're in a nightclub and some drunk guy's barreled you up against a wall, You're not going to It hurts, from that position.
You control the opponent's motion, which is, I'm surprised that actually we don't see in mixed martial arts people utilizing the Thai clinch the way the Thais do and using it for takedowns.
Yet again, you watch someone like, you know, WMC champion Tan Matsui or Sanchai and you see him lock up When you fought like Kurt Finlayson in Australia, would lock up with Kurt and just wrench him to the canvas.
And the ties also follow you down onto the canvas, because what they like to do is...
Drop the weight, drop a knee on you.
You know, knee your head, knee on the ribcage, on the way down.
So if you look at that from a mixed martial arts position, these guys are often ending up in a mount almost, if not inside control from this beautiful...
But it's one of those things that's going to slowly come over, you know, the real high level versions of it are going to come over into MMA. And then we're going to really see people appreciating it.
I see, you know, you see the Anderson Silva version of it, but there's some guys out there like Bull Cow.
That motherfucker grabs a hold of your neck.
He gets those elbows planted and clips that hand behind the neck.
Fuck, man.
You're locked.
It's like anything else.
There's levels of it.
There's the Marcelo Garcia rear naked choke, which is, you know...
in all due respect, it's not like a Mark Coleman rear naked choke.
You know what I mean?
There's levels of the technique.
Mark Coleman gets your back.
He's going to squeeze the fucking shit out of you and put you unconscious.
But he's a gorilla, brute force, power wrestler.
Even though he knows the technique, he doesn't have it, that laser sharp, effective technique like a Marcelo Garcia, like the highest end Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
And that's no disrespect to Coleman.
It's just like these really super, super technical guys You get a guy who's super, super technical at that clinch and really understands it.
And it's like one of the things that I would tell people about Taekwondo.
Obviously, Taekwondo is not of the most effective martial art, but there's a few things in it that if you get really good at it, you can fuck people up with it.
And they won't know that you know how to do it because for most people, it's a very, very difficult thing to learn, like spinning hook kicks and head kicks and all those techniques.
And the reason why people get so good at it in Taekwondo is because in Taekwondo tournaments you can't punch to the face and you can't take a guy down.
So you only concentrate on all these crazy leg techniques and in doing so you get a level of dexterity that you would never get if you looked at the whole thing.
So that's like the argument in martial arts and mixed martial arts of being the specialist instead of being someone who's a jack of all trades.
You know, being someone who's a killer at Muay Thai or being someone who's a killer at one particular aspect of mixed martial arts is way better than being pretty good at all of them.
Well, the question mark, Craig, is really just starting to make its way into MMA. I mean, really starting to be more effective in MMA. And this is something that Kyokushin guys have been throwing for decades.
Taekwondo guys, forever.
In Taekwondo, we would call it the fake front round kick.
And basically the idea is that it comes like a front kick and then turns over nowhere and the opponent has no idea it's going to hit his face and those are the ones that really fuck you up.
And we still don't see the front leg roundhouse kick from Taekwondo style.
There's a fast Taekwondo front leg roundhouse kick.
But the thing about a Taekwondo guy is that if you get really good at Taekwondo, you are going to have to be the kind of guy that can stop and look at it and go, okay, but I suck at all these other things.
Now I've got to go get my ass kicked at something that I suck at.
Instead of go to the gym and be a hero, now you're going to the gym and you're getting tapped out all the time.
A man that nobody thought could get to the top of the sport because Andy Hug was a big-time Kyokushin legend, Sato Kaikan world champion, and, you know, entered K1 as the smallest fighter ever, pretty much, and one of the lightest fighters ever.
Couldn't box to save his life at the start because, like Taekwondo, Kyokushin never allows face punches in any of their competitions.
And taught himself how to box and persistence and became the biggest superstar in K1 history.
It also surrounded Andy's death as well, that the leukemia came on so quickly and so suddenly there's always that sort of little background rumor, well, was it because he was on something, you know, that therefore sped up his process?
You gotta wonder, man, you know, when you're in such a dangerous environment like K1, you know, K1 is, if you've never seen it, I'm a fucking huge fan of it.
I mean, it really is almost more gladiatorial than MMA in a way, because these guys have to fight multiple times a night.
That's one of the few places where they still do it.
When Melvin Manhoof is telling you it's dangerous, a dude who goes into the cage with a dog collar on, a guy who looks like a goddamn superhero in a comic book.
I'm still not sure exactly what Mike says to those guys, but if you ever watch a Melvin entrance or a Bartahari entrance, you see Mike just absolutely skits out of the guy when they're at the top of the catwalk.
And for some reason, he zones them, gets them in the zone.
Ivan Hippelard, Gilbert Ballentine, the pioneers that went to Thailand and fought and brought this stuff back over to Holland, and then took it from there.
The Thais always, and still to this day, start very slowly.
The reason being that in Thailand, they bet on the fights.
So even while the fight starts, they're still taking bets.
So traditionally what the Thais would do would be to start very slowly and let the bets come in and not turn on the pace until the third round.
And still what they do to this day.
So still, when you find most Westerners fighting a Thai, particularly in Thailand, I always think the best thing to do is just go for their jawline.
Straight away, bull rush them, go hell for leather on the Thai's jaw.
Because usually he's going to start very slow.
He's going to sit back with that style, set his pace to the music.
And you know, that music picks up in intensity as every round goes on for.
For those that don't know, Muay Thai, traditional Muay Thai, is always accompanied by music.
And usually in Thailand, it's a live band ringside.
They have an oboe.
They have the little cymbals.
They have like a fucking thing that looks like a guitar.
And they play the music...
It's like a metronome.
So they set their time to it.
And as the rounds go on, the music gets quicker and quicker and quicker.
If you've watched Kickboxer, you know, the movie, you'll see it on there, the music in the background.
And, you know, the Thais always traditionally start very, very slowly.
First two rounds can be an absolute fucking cure for insomnia when you're watching Muay Thai, if you don't know what you're watching.
In the third round, though, these fuckers just turn it up.
And they start slamming those leg kicks.
And they're not big combination fighters.
You know, they just measure with these leg kicks and boom!
Just chop down with the...
You know, this arm goes back.
Which was also one of the big undoings of the ties, too.
Because the ties always did the chop kicks.
But they throw the kick so hard...
Instead of leaving their hand up here, they chop down because they knew that there was not much chance than an opponent because boxing is like the lowest scored technique in Muay Thai.
They just don't consider boxing very high at all.
So they don't work on it as much as they do their kicks and their knees and their elbows.
So the Thais would traditionally chop their hand down to kick with more power and a lot of Westerners used to be able to hook them and be able to pick them off because this hand had come down.
Nothing to cover the side of the face.
Whereas now a lot of Western kickboxes you see, and particularly a lot of the Dutch, they'll throw their kick but still manage to keep the forearm up to predict the face.
And you've seen someone like Abada Hari that when an opponent throws a chopping kick and chop with their hands, Abada's got that reach to be able to just go up the center, straight right across, and just knock guys out.
This is why when he fought David Hay, and I was watching it with a mate back home who's British, and he bit on David Hay, and he's like, nah, Hay's going to be too fast and too slick.
And I said to him, bro, there's no way Hay fucking gets inside that jab to land anything of consequence on Klitschko.
An eloquent technical fighter like that pulls in the audiences.
Going back to Andy Hug, we were talking about before.
When Andy used to fight and his fights were broadcast on Swiss TV Live, it would outrate the tennis matches of Martina Hingis and outrate the Swiss national soccer team.
I mean, just fucking extraordinary figures that they used to do.
And Andy, like the Klitschkos, was well-spoken, clean-cut, highly educated, could speak three or four languages, and there was nothing to dislike about the guy.
I never got to meet him, but I did get to interview him over the phone probably about two years before he died.
And just talking to him, he was just...
Just eloquent.
Just tell a story without a flinch, without an um and an uh.
Herb Perez was one of those guys that actually thought about getting into MMA, and I think if anybody from the Taekwondo world would have been good at MMA, it probably would have been him, because I got to see him compete a bunch of times.
He actually knocked out one of my friends.
He would knock out a lot of guys, and he would punch a lot of guys, too.
He had a different style, this different real attacking power style of Taekwondo.
If he learned real boxing and learned how to sprawl, he would fuck a lot of guys up, because the speed of his legs, guys wouldn't have been able to handle those kicks coming at their face.
They wouldn't know it could get there that quick.
A lot of it is a timing thing.
It's just whether or not a guy like that, those high-level Taekwondo guys, if they want to spend the time And learn all that other shit.
And become an amateur.
You know, when you get into Jiu Jitsu, I don't care if you're an Olympic gold medalist in Taekwondo.
For seven and a half years, I edited the Australian equivalent of Black Belt Magazine called Blitz Magazine.
And, you know, writing about all the different martial arts and the traditional arts and we do sequence frames, you know, to show defenses against knife attacks and defenses against boxing and all this sort of stuff.
And you look back at it now after the, you know, the propagation of mixed martial arts and the popularity of mixed martial arts that exposed so many of the myths.
And I flick back through some of the old magazines.
I'm like, what the fuck, man?
This shit just would not work.
Guys coming out with a knife and you're going to...
Or guys coming out with a club, you're going to do like a fucking X defense and then, you know, spinning hook to the guy.
And a lot of the guys that would believe that shit so much, and this was one of the things that absolutely put me off working for the magazine towards the end, was hating having to write about instructors and how humble they were, and that they had no ego whatsoever.
And these are the same guys that are ringing you up saying, I want to be on the front cover of the magazine.
I want a poster of myself inside.
I want to buy five pages of advertising.
I want to check the story out and make sure the write-up's good.
But then you've got to write out humble.
They're appreciative.
They are bowing and doing it for very little money.
It's just sort of gave me a very bad taste for some traditional martial artists that believe a lot of their own hype.
That said, though, I'm a big fan of traditional martial arts because I love the aesthetics of it as well.
Well, traditional martial arts are much like any sort of school of philosophy where one person knows more than you and they're going to teach you.
You're going to get two different types.
You're going to get true masters.
And by true masters, I just mean someone who really, truly is a person who has some knowledge and they want to bestow it.
And that's the life they're living.
That's the way they're living.
And you're going to get some charlatans.
You're going to get a lot of people just like cult leaders.
You know, there are people out there that I believe that are legitimate spiritual leaders.
And by what they are, is they're a person that's on a road and they're further ahead than you.
You know, if the guy's been living at a Buddhist monastery, you know, eating a very raw vegan diet and meditating all day for 10 years, that's an experience that very, very few people have ever attempted.
And if you hung out with that guy or talked to him, I guarantee you can pick something up from him.
By that same token, there's a lot of charlatan cult leaders in martial arts, and there are so many of them out there that have- More than not.
More than not, exactly.
And the way that the students look up to these guys and put them on a pedestal, it's like they're messiahs, almost.
And it's a shame to see a lot of instructors take advantage of that just for monetary gain.
And there's so many of them out there.
Yeah.
You know, I've seen instructors around the world and several stories of instructors who have taken advantage of students, you know, for sexual purposes and stuff like that, just because the control, the seeming mind control they have that they implement in those students, it's cultish.
Like, my taekwondo school that I, I mean, I literally spent my entire life from age 15 until I started doing stand-up comedy.
That's all I did was fight.
All I did was Taekwondo and kickboxing and Muay Thai towards the end.
Muay Thai and kickboxing when I was 22. My last fights were kickboxing.
But my whole life was all this Taekwondo shit.
And I would go from this world of very little order, you know, which my life was, to all of a sudden, you know, some guy's fucking screaming at you and, you know, say, yes, sir!
This whole bowing and this respect thing and then actually becoming a black belt, all of that to me, it forced me into thinking at a higher level.
It forced me into composing myself, presenting myself on a higher level that I had a higher calling to answer to.
Well, I was in a plane with Boss Rutten, and we're getting on board, and the woman goes, where do I know that guy from?
I go, that's Boss Rutten.
I go, he's a former UFC heavyweight champion, one of the greatest martial artists ever.
He's a legend.
And she goes, oh, well, my boyfriend is big into that martial arts.
I go, yeah?
And she goes, yeah, yeah.
He actually had to get his hands registered.
She actually said this, right?
So I go over, I'm a fucking asshole, of course.
I have to go over and I go, boss, that woman over there, He said that her boyfriend's a big fan of mixed martial arts, and he's such a bad motherfucker, he had to get his hands registered.
And of course, you know Boss Root, it's like, this is not true.
You know, because I was making fun of like, what they do is, not saying that hitting someone using Kung Fu techniques wouldn't be effective.
Of course it'd be effective.
What we're saying is, this method of training that these guys employ in the park is basically a really antiquated old way of developing techniques for martial arts.
And what it is, is one guy pretends to hit you, and then you pretend, you get out of the way, and then hit him with a bunch of other shit.
But that stuff doesn't really work.
Because when someone comes in to hit you, they don't just come in to hit you like that.
My point is, it's not effective to train that way.
It's not effective to you step forward.
The guy throws a bunch of, you know, so the guy's like, yeah, Joe Rogan, how you gonna say that?
I'll hit you with a monkey fist in your face and your eyes watering.
You tell me that ain't gonna hurt?
No, it most certainly will hurt.
Please don't hit me with a monkey paw to the face.
That's not what I'm saying.
When I make fun of your training, I'm saying that's not the way to do it anymore.
It's silly.
This is about the fight.
What you do is a sport.
Shut the fuck up, stupid.
Listen to me.
The stuff that works on trained killers is the best stuff.
And any of you crazy kung fu guys that still think you can hang in MMA, get in there with just kung fu training and the high level guys are going to take you down and they're going to choke the fuck out of you and they're going to leg kick you and they're going to blast you.
That's just the way it is.
You have to train in mixed martial arts.
To be able to compete with those guys because it's the best style of fighting.
Yeah, if you're a chick and your whole style of fighting is based on staying in one line, I mean, that's obviously a chick that did not want to spread her legs in any way.
You know, he then realized, okay, Wing Chun gave him his base and all the Shaolin wooden dummy stuff that they practice on, all those trapping hands, and, you know...
And people, you know, they look at Bruce Lee movies, and they're fun and everything, but if you know really about Bruce Lee, the techniques that he used in his movies, he just used because they look cool.
His fighting style of Jeet Kune Do is really very effective.
really not really you know once on Fear Factor some guy got in my face but it wasn't like I didn't really have to do anything I just grabbed it I got him in the tie clencher actually that's what I did to him I've only been in one it's like no it was like 16 months ago 16 months ago?
For those that don't know, I'd studied Muay Thai for about three and a half years back in Australia with Mark Castanini.
So the Muay Thai lessons came flooding back.
So I'm blocking his punches, blocking his punches, and I remember that Mark had taught me a technique back in the day, which is not a Muay Thai technique, but Mark is a bouncer for many, many years, and it's actually his stories that my best-selling book, Bouncer, were based on.
I think it's very important in any situation, any real live situation like that, to always throw the probabilities and possibilities into the old computer and come out with, what's worst case scenario here?
Well, worst case scenario could be pretty fucking bad.
You could die.
You could get stabbed.
You could fall and break your leg as you're chasing after him.
Let me tell you, I'm so happy now because Irene's like the best woman in the world.
You know, we're engaged now.
I proposed to her in Rome like a couple of weeks ago.
I'm so thrilled because some of the experiences I had with women in the past, Joe...
Seriously, let me tell you about this blind date.
I never used to go on blind dates.
And I used to work on radio on a very popular station in Melbourne called Kix FM. And because I had this nice voice that everyone thinks, I still don't think is that good, but I used to have girls ringing in the studio all the time asking me to go out with them.
She walked out and she's in barefoot walking on the gravel driveway holding stilettos in her hand.
I'm like, this fucking dirty bitch with her dirty feet is going to get in my car now.
She hops in the car and we're driving into town because I booked a sushi restaurant and a movie and then to go to a nightclub that my mate had just opened up.
Well, if she had her way, you're not too far off because on Sunday, the night after Valentine's, I get a call from her best friend, Wendy.
And Wendy's like, hi, Michael, it's Wendy.
Oh my God, you're so romantic.
I'm like, oh, am I Wendy?
Cool.
Thanks.
Um...
Why?
She goes, oh my god, the giant teddy bear and the flowers and the chocolates you sent to Elizabeth for Valentine's Day were so romantic.
I'm like, huh?
What?
She goes, oh, the chocolates and the teddy bear and the flowers.
I go, what do you mean, Wendy?
Oh, well, I rang Liz yesterday or last night and she couldn't talk and she was all breathy and panty and said she couldn't talk to me because she was in bed with you.
I fucking lost the plot.
I hung up from Wendy.
I rang Liz.
I'm like, you fucking beast of a woman.
I go, not only was our date the worst fucking date from hell, which is why I didn't ring you.
I go, then I actually felt sorry for you when you sent yourself chocolates and a teddy bear and fucking flowers on Valentine's Day.
Because that's a sad, lonely person that does that and tells all her friends.
But the moment you insinuate that I'm fucking your ugly ass on Valentine's night and go telling everyone...
No, but you know, no one pisses me off the fuck socially, because at least learn to buy a fucking bottle of antiperspirant and stick it under your fucking arms.
At least learn the decency to walk to my car with your shoes on.
She makes up the baby's formula, puts it in the microwave, nukes it, goes back in the baby's room, comes back and joins me like 30 seconds later and presses play on the video.
In a moment, the girl says something like that and goes, listen, you seem like you're in a bad mood, so I'm going to send you home, and you take care, and I'll call you later.
Listen, man, you're always going to run into weird people if you're trying to date because you're going to run into weird people just randomly trying to make friends.
You know, the problem is people are so horny that they're not that particular about who they stick their penis inside of.
That's why you wind up with so many fucked up situations.
Do you know the thing that shoots me, and maybe you can relate to this as well, is that...
When I used to date chicks and I go out to chicks and there was like chicks that I used to like that didn't like me back then.
But recently, because my profile's gone up, you know, working on TV and people are seeing my face on TV and stuff, those chicks like send you a message out of nowhere.
Find you on Facebook or find you on Twitter or, you know, they suddenly have your number back in their phone.
They're like texting you.
You know, let's go out.
How you doing?
Been thinking about you?
It's like, the fuck, man?
Only because you've seen me on TV or something, you come fucking squirming back.
Yeah, if you had to make friends the way you try to get laid, like if it was really important, like you needed a friend every couple of days, you know, I mean, Jesus Christ, your friendships would be fucking chaotic.
They'd be crazy.
You know, if we needed friendship as much as we need sex, which, by the way, is real possible, you know?
Yeah, there's some dudes that you will have good times with in the beginning, but then somewhere along the line, as you get to know them better, their character flaws are exposed and they're not willing to be honest about it.
So then every time you're hanging around with that person, it becomes a problem.
It becomes all around that person.
It becomes this person's character flaw that everybody has to sort of deal with, whether it's jealousy or whether it's being overly aggressive, whether it's being de- dicky to women whatever the fuck it is you know there's certain dudes that are not willing to look at reality and they're not willing to evolve and the real problem is if you surround yourself with someone like that that all your evolution stops All your progress as a human being stops as does theirs.
So when you're out with them, man, if they're acting cunty and douchey, you're locked into this cunty, douchey life.
This is your crew.
This is who you're hanging out with, man.
And if you don't surround yourself with like-minded people, you don't grow together.
So when you're with someone that you feel like is a roadblock to your own personal enlightenment, it's important for you to separate yourself from that person.
You know, it's just people just, you know, and look, I'm a very good and loyal friend.
And I pride myself on keeping good and loyal friends and making them appreciate, making them realize how much I appreciate them and making them, you know, I think friendships are one of the most important things you could foster in this world, you know, to be able to.
One of the most beautiful things about this podcast has been the fact that I've exposed a lot of people to the friends that I've cultivated.
My friend Brian Callan and Duncan and all these really brilliant people that I know that are really interesting cats.
I mean, that's my proudest achievement in life, is surrounding myself with an interesting group of friends.
And I shouldn't say proudest, but most satisfying.
You know, that, wow, this is amazing.
I'm so lucky to have such cool friends.
The only way you can have that is if you cull.
You have to get rid of ones that don't keep up.
Because not everybody keeps up, just like not every girl.
Like, you have this great girl in Irene, but look how many cunts you had to go through to get to her.
Well, that's just the way it is with friends as well.
It's the same thing.
You will appreciate people that have their shit together when you deal with enough people that don't.
And at a certain point in time, some people are just not willing to take personal responsibility and grow.
And when you run into those people, you gotta separate from them because they're roadblocks.
They become problems.
There's no growing and it all becomes dealing with them and their issues.
You see how many friends you had when you were young and as you get older, you cull it and cull it and cull it.
And dude, I've got like five friends that I keep really close, like my inner circle that know shit about me.
Then everyone else is a big fucking perimeter around that inner circle.
Sorry, but the more you travel as well and you're away from home and away from those friends, you realize how much you love them and how much you do need them in your life and close to you and giving that love to you and that positive energy to you so that you can survive in your own life.
Human beings, like I always say of my closest friends, that my friend Brian Cowan is a perfect example.
If Brian considers something and he brings it to me and tells me about it, I know that it's going to be well thought out and I know that I can consider it almost as if...
It's my own thoughts.
I can appreciate his experiences and his interpretations of his experiences so much.
I can trust in them so much that I trust in them almost as much as I would trust in my own.
Because the genuine friends that you know have no personal agenda that the advice they give you or they recommend is going to be solely for your own benefit and nothing to do with them trying to gain from it.
- Soly honest. - Yeah, exactly. - 'Cause there's folks that you talk to where you don't get that, man.
You don't get the honesty.
You get this weird amalgamation of the truth and fiction because they don't want to come off looking like a loser or they don't want to come off looking like an asshole when in fact maybe some more shit was their fault and you're not getting the full version of it and they want you to back them up.
If you're my friend, you'd back me up.
No.
If I was your friend, I would tell you when you're being a douchebag.
That idea that a friend has to only be positive all the time when you're being negative.
They can't be honest about it.
It's a real problem that people have fostering good friendships and good relationships.
And that's one of the happiest things that I've been able to do with this podcast.
I've talked to so many people that we've met.
You know, all over the country that don't have people that are thinking like this around them.
So they're not exposed to a lot of the stuff that we're talking about in their neighborhood or in their community, in their circle, their social circle.
You know, and you got to find people like this.
You got to find people that you can trust and hang out with because they're out there.
You could have a bunch of negative cunt friends and just think that all your friends and all the people that you're ever going to meet are negative cunts and then all of a sudden you'll just find some oasis of nice people and if you're not a negative cunt and those people like you, then all of a sudden your life immeasurably gets better.
If your friendships are good, your life is immeasurably better.
That's why I always tell people in bad relationships and bad friendships, just fucking get out.
If you're confident that it's not you, if you're a nice person, then just get out.
It's all in how you get raised, I think, a lot of it.
A lot of it is people growing up with horrible, horrible relationships.
And sometimes people grow up in horrible relationships and it actually makes them better at relationships because they realize, well, fuck, I don't want to be like my mom and dad.
I'm not into fighting.
I've met girls that their parents fought like crazy, so they were really cool and calm because they had seen so much stupid shit.
You know, the real reality of relationships is the idea of finding one human being and you've lived 30 plus years of programming and changing your personality and molding to your environment and adapting to all the shit that you see in your world and then...
Out of nowhere you introduce some new player and you gotta decipher the fucking Dead Sea Scrolls.
You gotta go back and figure out where all this comes from.
Where's this attitude?
Why is that attitude?
Why does she get indignant when I don't open her car door?
What is the root of this?
How much does she really believe in this God thing?
But then you also sort of think to yourself, like you said, meeting that person, you think to yourself, okay, there's six billion people in the world, let's call three and a half billion of them women, and you're trying to meet this one, and you're trying to meet this one pretty much within, what, a 20-kilometer radius of your house?
You're not trying to meet your interstate or another city or other cities?
Let's even call it 20 miles of your house, 30 miles of your house, in your ratio of where you go out to, your perimeter, circumference of where you head out.
Especially people that aren't happy with their art or their career or their chosen profession or whatever the fuck it is they're pursuing and they're in some state of turmoil where they're trying to accomplish some things.
A lot of people out there are unhappy with themselves, man.
And they're not going to be happy no matter who the fuck they're with.
They're going to get comfortable with anybody and start being dicky with them because they're dicky with themselves.
who could apparently medically treat people by apparently being able to tap into the worldwide consciousness of everyone and pluck any information he needed from any mind in the world to be able to diagnose someone.
My friend Eddie is a big proponent of Edgar Cayce, but he's also big into UFOs.
He loves sexy things.
He loves ghosts and spirits and channelers.
He loves all that stuff.
Me, I'm...
I'm a cautious optimist.
And so I think it's interesting to me that there could be a possibility of some person who has some incredible extrasensory perception to the point where they can read your future or your past or find out things about you.
But I'm not convinced.
I'm not convinced and I'm also not convinced that people are being objective about their accounts because I know, like many other things, people want to believe that shit works.
Here's an example.
There was a stupid fucking thing going around where people were wearing these holograms.
If you believe that praying to God brings you what you want in life, what you're really doing is just transmitting your positive thoughts, your positive energy.
But also in the life we live and the society we live in, people are always looking to get that upper hand and looking to get that slight edge.
And wow, if this bracelet can give me that slight edge over on my opponent, that slight edge in my work, then they want to believe that the bracelet's going to give them that edge.
And they give themselves that edge naturally by their self-belief.
I mean, if you're eating regular food and you're getting a certain amount of nutrients from food, and then on top of that, you're force-feeding yourself massive doses of vitamins, B12 and fucking...
Guess what?
That's performance enhancing.
I completely think it should be legal, and I think it's very healthy for you, and it's very beneficial for your body, and I'm not...
And that's saying that athletes shouldn't take it.
I'm saying, where does that line get drawn?
What do you think about...
Here's a perfect example, and I wanted to talk to you about this coming on the show.
Because you don't have a horse in this game.
What do you think about this whole testosterone replacement therapy thing?
What's going on with Nate Marquardt and all these other fighters?
If you've got a testosterone depletion in your body and you need to take the drugs to boost your levels up to that of a normal person or that of the person you're competing against...
Listen though, Keith Kaiser, who I've had my problems with in the past, the head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, took a very strong stance on this and I support him.
And one of the reasons why I support him is he won't allow testosterone replacement therapy for people who have tested positive for steroids before.
And you know why?
Because people that test positive for steroids, you ruin your fucking body when you take steroids and your nuts don't work anymore.
And I see his argument in that there shouldn't be, as far as you want to compete as an athlete, when you've ruined your body from cheating.
You know, there is a strong moral statement to be made there that I do see that point.
I'm not necessarily sure that I agree with it, because I think you should be allowed to make mistakes in the past, and I know how much performance-enhancing effect a cycle that you did six years ago is gonna have on today, and it's nothing.
You might have damaged your body, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to stand up as an athlete to perform.
But I think you probably should have to do some sort of public relationship, explaining, and maybe perhaps letting people know, hey, please don't do steroids, because my balls don't work anymore.
You know what I mean?
You wanna compete as an athlete?
And they should be much more stringent in your testing.
With your testing, they've got to watch you all year round.
They can't just, because guys will get super juiced, and then they level off right before they get on the scale.
There was a, you know, well, I shouldn't talk about that.
Look, here's the bottom line.
Anything that helps you, anything that makes your body perform better, for sure someone who's living is stepping into a goddamn cage and throwing their bones at somebody.
And the only exceptions are going to be someone who's an elite athlete who doesn't need it.
There's a lot of guys who don't need anything.
Young guys who are recovering at a high level still and they don't need it.
They're just high nutrition and taking care of their body.
Older athletes, man, when you get into guys that are in their late 30s, you see a guy like Bernard Hopkins.
Look, I am not going to cast any speculation as to what Bernard Hopkins is taking or not taking.
I'm a Bernard Hopkins fan.
I'm a fan of his technique, of his heart as a boxer.
But that said, isn't he like 46 years old?
46, and he just beat Pascal for the light heavyweight belt, right?
I know of a lot of famous singers and actors that are getting on in years, especially singers that have to go under the duress of doing a lot of concerts on the road, high-intensity style of living, to take growth hormone just to keep young, just to maintain a youthful look and be able to recover the stress they put on their bodies.
Yeah, but the athletes for sure are the ones who are going to need it because they're the ones who are worried about their actual physical health when it comes to competing.
They're the ones who are really going to need it and really going to want it.
And I always stress this, stopping steroids or stopping any of this is a finger in a dam that is eventually coming down because of science.
There's going to be a large scale ability to manipulate your own genetics.
It's just eventual.
It's going to happen.
There's no doubt about it.
They're looking into all sorts of artificial organs and recreating organs in labs and they've been successful in doing this.
We're successful in transplanting these and they're working on manipulating the human body at a very high level and they're not going to stop.
So it's eventually going to keep going in the same direction it's going and one of the directions is of course performance enhancing drugs, anti-aging drugs, Things that make people younger.
They've already discovered all sorts of different ways to manipulate the genetics to make, you know, mice stronger.
You know, those things called myostatin inhibitors that they've done with mice.
And there's photos of whippet dogs.
And apparently whippet dogs are more susceptible to this because of the way they breed them.
And that, you know, if they breed them incorrectly, if there's some sort of a mistake in the pairing or whatever, One of the offshoots, one of the fuck-ups is this lack of myostatin inhibitors.
And these whippets are giant, super-muscled dogs that don't even look real.
They're going to be able to do that to people, man.
You know, like that downscaling of humanity from you go back 5,000 years ago and the ancient Greeks and the Egyptians and the ancient Romans just were so fucking intelligent, man.
We're mapping constellations.
We're mapping countries.
We're, you know, building machines back then that all of a sudden in the Dark Ages...
It just all disappeared.
Everything just fucking went downhill in a big way.
People are so flawed that as high as the heights can reach, there's always going to be a potential for a regress.
There's always like the tide comes in and it goes out.
And I think it's always moving forward, but there's always a potential for a Michelle Bachman-type presidential situation and religious fanaticism overcomes the earth and fucking...
Nuclear war.
There's always a potential for that.
And then there must be a rebuild.
Like, it will always move towards the positive and towards the more comprehensive and more evolved, but there's always the potential for relapses.
You're going to wonder, too, like, the Dogon tribe, I think they're called in Africa, these guys were fucking, thousands of you go, mapping out constellations.
There's a stone right down the street from my house.
When we're driving back, I'm going to point this out to you because it's a fascinating stone.
It's just a rock, man.
It's just a rock that's sitting there, but it looks like it was cut square.
It's not totally square.
But it just randomly turned out to be this rock, the way it's shaped.
And if you didn't know any better, or if you had a satellite and you were looking from Mars, you know, and you were studying Earth and you saw that rock, you'd be like, look, this is proof.
This is proof that intelligent life has created this rock.
Because the second window across right on the end there, the Madonna, there was this oil stain on the window, like fucking someone throwing cooking oil on the window, that if you sort of looked at it and you had that picture in your mind that someone's telling you it looks like the Madonna, like the Virgin Mary, you think, yeah, okay, it looks maybe like a chick holding a baby.
It's like, oh, this is their big thing.
The Virgin Mary holding the baby, the Madonna, a sign on the window.
And for some reason, this fucking villager has managed to keep this oil stain on his window for like the past 30 years.
Listen, man, there's a broad spectrum of human beings.
And there's some dummies out there, man.
And that's an intelligent test.
That's what that oil painting is, man, or that oil stain is.
It's an intelligence test.
And there's going to be a lot of people that fail that test.
That's just the way it is.
It's unfortunate.
And I don't see any way around it until we figure out a way to have, like, super intelligent robots that do all the menial tasks that we need really dumb people.
And when we do have that happen, then it's going to be even more of a problem because it's going to be some sort of a weird, bizarre welfare state where we're going to have to take care of all these morons that we had given shitty jobs before because they really don't have anything to contribute.
As our society becomes more and more self-sufficient and more and more reliant on computers, and then we don't need people to do mundane, retard tasks, what the fuck, man?
We're going to have to...
Figure out some...
There's going to be some sort of an adjustment period where there's chaos.
I mean, look, you can't turn a group of people into little babies that always need their daddy and then just cast them loose in the woods and say, sorry, no more daddy.
You know, because that daddy, they're going to hate that daddy.
They're going to come back and they're going to want revenge.
You know, and there's a lot of people out there that believe that they're guaranteed jobs.
And that's what, you know, politicians always talk about.
We're going to create jobs.
Yes!
Give me a job.
You owe me a fucking job.
You know, that's the point of this whole idea of everyone working together is that everyone has something to contribute.
But the reality is the way the system is set up.
There's a huge chunk of people that don't have anything to contribute, so they have to find some way to plug themselves into the bureaucracy, plug themselves into this complicated economic situation, and that just defeats the whole fucking purpose of the machine.
The whole purpose of the machine is everybody's got a little piece to play, everybody's got a little thing to do.
This place is...
We're in such a weird state as far as the evolution of society.
We're just getting past the need for that.
And when we do, what the fuck, man?
What are those poor people going to do?
That's why the elites want to drop everybody down to 500,000 people.
The idea is if you could kill most people and then rock all the resources in the world and have life extension.
And that's the idea, that you would have some incredible ability to stay alive forever, and, you know, if you did have, like, some crazy, like, super technical life, Aubrey de Grey, life extension technology that only the elites had a hold of, and you could live to be a thousand years old, well then, you know, you could have, like, harems and shit, and if there's only 500,000 people on the earth, you could rock it just like a king.
When they talk about the apocalypse, and it's always talks of gluttony.
I mean, every story is the same.
Every story is like the fall of Rome when it's told to us.
It's always the same thing.
They're fucking little boys and drinking and Vomitoriums where they throw up and go right back in to eat again.
And they were out of control.
And then they fell apart.
It's always the same goddamn story.
And if that is the same story, what the fuck are we doing right now?
We've got to pay attention.
Pay attention to what we're doing.
We're in wars all over the fucking planet.
We're involved in all sorts of fucking filth and craziness and the way we're polluting the environment and fucking devastating world economies and fucking people over in third world countries and providing with loans they can never pay back and then jacking all their resources.
I mean, it's, you know, it's one case after the other to show that this is happening right now.
If you're working with some chick and you say to her, listen, give me a fucking toss in the toilet cubicle, what's the big deal of a chick putting her hand in her cock and just jerking you?
But they're worried that you're going to leave and become in a relationship with this woman who's really good at jerking you off and then you're going to leave.
They throw glitter on Michelle Bachman, like, to, you know, to, like, you know, let them, make them, make them, force them to stay aware of, you know, gay rights and gay needs.