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Oct. 13, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
23:10
AMB. Chas Freeman : Can Trump Control Netanyahu?
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom.
Today is Monday, October 13th, 2025.
My dear friend Ambassador Chaz Freeman joins us now.
Ambassador Freeman, thank you very much.
Before we get into who controls whom, Netzanyahu or Trump, what are your what is your take?
What is your initial reaction uh to the events in Jerusalem uh today?
Uh is is this a substantial agreement for peace, or is it an act?
More of the latter.
Um President Trump's proclaimed it a the dawn of a new era in the Middle East.
Um I wish that were likely to be the case.
I don't think so.
Uh this is a tactical retreat by Israel.
Um in order to pursue the aim it has always pursued, which is um disarming Palestinian nationalism and expelling the Palestinians from their lands.
Uh the genocide has been paused, not ended.
And I find it doubly ironic that we have a meeting going on in Cairo between uh Western leaders who are posing as the saviors of the Palestinians when they are in fact uh among the perpetrators of the genocide.
So this is a ceasefire and a hostage exchange.
Um presumably the Hamas will do its best to find uh and uh unearth and to return the corpses of uh those hostages who died.
Uh but in the West it is being treated as though the only issue in the Middle East is Israeli hostages.
And of course that is the case for Israelis, apparently.
But that is not the issue in the Middle East.
The issue is whether or not Palestinians and Israelis can coexist.
And Israel has determined that it does not want to coexist with Palestinians.
It has not changed its mind.
People in the Israeli cabinet are calling for the immediate resumption of genocide once the hostages have been returned and are in their hands.
Netanyahu has said that he has not agreed to halt the genocide.
Uh Hamas is being pressed to disarm, but it has not agreed to that either and won't.
Uh it will not give to Israel as a negotiating table what it has successfully denied it on the battlefield of the last two years.
So what is this?
This is a flash in the pan, and it is uh a pseudo-event in many respects, in terms of the main issues, which have to do with how to preserve how to establish a basis for some sort of peaceful coexistence between parties in the Middle East.
When uh President Trump uh was asked just three days ago, uh, if the United States guarantees that once Hamas disarms, Israel won't resume the bombing.
Here's his answer.
See if you can tell me if this is a yes or a no.
Cut number one, Chris.
What guarantees Hamas disarms and that Israel doesn't resume bombing once the hostages are released?
Well, the first thing we're doing is getting our hostages back, okay?
And that's what people wanted more than anything else.
They wanted these hostages back that have lived in hell like nobody has ever even dreamt possible.
And after that, we'll see.
But they've agreed to things, and I think it's going to move along pretty well.
That sound like a guarantee to you?
Certainly does not.
And uh I note again that uh he says people say the most important thing is the hostages.
Well, this so-called agreement was not a product of any consultation with any Palestinian, not even the captive subordinate Palestinian authority of Mahmoud Abbas, let alone Hamas.
That is not the Palestinian desire, that is the Israeli desire.
So he's basically saying Israel can do whatever it wants.
And that, of course, is going to uh further erode his credibility internationally and particularly in the Middle East, because Hamas placed great reliance on uh a guarantee that they were offered during the talks from President Trump personally.
I did not hear him uh reiterate or affirm any such commitment in the clip you just played.
I don't think he expects that he can restrain Netanyahu.
I mean, can this be considered the the victory that Netanyahu claims he has yet to defeat the Palestinians?
He in Gaza, he has severely impaired Israel economically, socially, politically, uh diplomatically, uh, culturally, and the whole world, including a majority of the United States, uh, now questions the moral basis for a Zionist state.
Well, as I said, I think this is a tactical retreat by Israel that is necessitated by their strategic failure.
They have not succeeded in accomplishing their objectives, vis-a-vis the Palestinians in Gaza.
They have not eradicated uh the uh most uh formidable element of the Palestinian national resistance.
Uh and they have, in fact, in the course of what they've done, as you suggest, glotted their reputation to the point where people consider them evil.
There's a whole fabric of international law that governs these situations.
The Fourth Geneva Convention, is which Israel is subject to and a signatory to uh prohibits the uh movement of settlers into territories that are occupied.
It prohibits the annexation of occupied territories.
Israel's done both, of course, massively.
Uh it the third Geneva Convention uh limits uh uh uh uh warfare in various respects.
You can't target civilians, you can't uh engage in inhumane treatment of uh or torture of those you capture, and uh these are all war crimes, every one of which uh Israel is committed.
Uh there's international law prohibits uh collective punishment, and yet that has been the basis of Israeli policy.
There's another element here, Hamas has violated international law.
Um that is to say, international law gives peoples who are occupied and oppressed a right of resistance, including armed resistance.
That right is real, and it justifies fighting uh the Israeli military, but it cannot override the commitment of other laws that prohibit uh targeting civilians taking hostages and so forth, which Hamas has done.
So, what is the net effect of all this?
Uh Israel has not won a victory, but it has succeeded in destroying the entire fabric of the law of war and destroying its own international reputation.
And what will be the, if anything, the legal consequences for all this.
I mean, Netanyahu probably, according to Alistair or Crook wants to uh attack Iran before the end of November because of weather uh conditions and Israeli concerns about their jets flying in clouds and fog and things like that that'll come about uh from December to uh to March.
Um does he need another war to stay in power?
He may very well.
Um I think once the jubilation of the release of the hostages um is behind us, and and I certainly understand and uh completely sympathize with the hostage families in Israel and share their joy that uh their hostages have been released.
Once once that happens, uh the focus will shift to the other elements there.
The focus has been moved deliberately as part of uh information warfare onto the hostages, hostage uh issue.
That isn't going to be there anymore.
So people will focus uh much more on the other issues: genocide, starvation, uh Israeli torture, Israeli use of sodomy in jails uh against Palestinian prisoners,
Israel's refusal to uh release anyone like Marwan Paruti, who might conceivably be able to craft a legitimate coexistence framework for Palestinians with Israelis.
Uh all of this is going to become the focus.
Uh and uh Netanyahu is still uh subject to uh Israeli prosecution for corruption, uh his wife as well, and uh uh he is desperate to remain in power, and perhaps he does need another war.
I don't know about uh when the when the attack on Iran will happen.
I'm not as sure as Alistair is, but his judgment is pretty sound, and I won't gain say what he said.
Here's uh a clip from uh President Trump uh speaking and being interrupted by uh two uh Israeli members of the Knesset who were waving Palestinian flags and saying in Hebrew, I understand from the Haaretz report of this, uh recognize Palestine.
Watch what happened.
And they somehow can relate to him.
I've known him for many years and I've seen it over and over again.
Knesset member, please expel this Knesset member.
I want to get to the Knesset Kassif.
Knesset Kassif.
I want to get to the Knesset Kassif.
So they were taking uh Palestinian flags or some sort of Palestinian public paraphernalia from the hands of those two Knesset members.
The rest of the Knesset was chanting, I think they were chanting Trump Trump Trump.
This was while President Trump was uh addressing the uh uh the Knesset.
Are there members of the Knesset who are Palestinians or are these Israelis who are in favor of a Palestinian state?
Well, I don't know who the two were, but there are um Palestinian Israelis, Israeli citizens who are Palestinian, about 20% of Israel proper uh is uh Palestinian rather than Ashkenazi or Mizrami,
uh either uh European Jews or Arab Jews uh uh who uh imploded into Israel after life in Arab countries became untenable for them upon Israel's establishment.
Um so I suspect that they these are Arab members of the uh Knesset.
And I would just say, if you want a graphic illustration of the fact that Israel is a democracy for Jews and a tyranny for Arabs, you just saw it.
Right, right.
Why do you think that uh Prime Minister Netanyahu is not going to Sharma Sheikh uh with President Trump later today to meet with uh the Western colonizers uh of Gaza?
Well, Hamas is not present there either.
Uh so I guess that's the uh uh reciprocal uh here.
Uh I don't know that uh he would be acceptable among many of the members uh uh Arab countries who are attending in Cairo.
Um he's widely regarded as a monster.
Nobody wants a photo up with him other than Donald Trump.
For of course, domestic political purposes, the value uh of which today is seriously in question.
I mean, uh, Retz had a very interesting piece uh this morning I know you read it as I do saying Netanyahu's next battle is a PR one it's with trying to reshape code word for lie about his involvement and and extension uh of all this damage to uh Israel what's he going to do come and speak to the Congress again and be interrupted with standing ovations 58 times in 56 minutes
It could happen.
I think it's been very clear his last presence in the United States included a meeting with influencers who now get $7,000 for every posting they make that has the potential to move American opinion back toward Israel.
I mean, this is not a joke.
This is a heavily funded program.
He made it very clear that the biggest thing that's happening right now is the removal of the independence of TikTok.
It is now being bought by Jewish plutocrats who intend to alter the algorithm to ensure that it cannot be the repository of posts like some, including a series which is really quite horrifying to watch called genocide TikTok.
This kind of thing won't be allowed in the future.
And since 70 percent of American youth appear to get their news from TikTok, this is a big, big strategic propaganda move by Israel.
I'm going to play a clip from President Trump's speech to the Knesset because he apparently departed, as he often does, from the text.
But this time he publicly asked Israeli politicians.
President Isaac Herzog to pardon Prime Minister Netanyahu so the prosecutions of Netanyahu uh which probably will resume must be on everybody's mind watch this hey I have an idea Mr. President why don't you give him a pardon by
By the way, that was not in the speeches, you probably know.
But I happen to like this gentleman right over here, and it just seems to make so much sense.
You know, whether we like it or not, this has been one of the greatest wartime presidents.
This has been one of the greatest wartime presidents.
And cigars and champagne, who the hell cares about that?
Well, talking about cigars and champagne that Netanyahu apparently accepted, it came to $140,000 worth.
Failed to report that's one of the acts of corruption.
Of course, he referred to Netanyahu as the president of Israel.
He's not.
He's a leader of a political party and is the prime minister.
Your thoughts.
So this is sycophancy in return for sycophancy.
Trump eats up sycophancy.
So does Netanyahu.
It is also an oath of fealty to Netanyahu.
Again, for domestic political purposes and reasons.
It is Trump consolidating the Zionist support for himself in the United States.
And it is also an illustration of an important point going back to an earlier discussion, an earlier part of this chat.
In domestic law, law, if criminal behavior is routinely pardoned because of the political prominence of the criminal, there is no law.
You have a lawless society.
We are on the way to achieving that in the United States.
But President Trump just suggested that Israel do the same.
Second, uh go back to the question of international law.
If law is disregarded routinely, and there is no implementation of the law, no execution of it, no punitive action taken against lawbreakers, then there is no law.
So we are back to the law of the jungle, and we are back to arbitrary and capricious governance without any checks and balances.
My um first of my ten books was called Constitutional Chaos: What happens when the government breaks its own laws, and it is a study of uh American governmental law breaking and the consequences of it.
And the consequences of it, of course, are more law-breaking by non-uh governmental people who take their cues from the government, the subjective uh enforcement uh of law, uh like we uh see today.
If three grand juries decide not to indict someone, well, let's go to a fourth and we'll limit what we tell uh that uh grand jury because the president wants this person prosecuted, even though lawyers will resign rather than take up these uh cases.
Apparently the same thing now maybe happening in Israel, I don't know.
It sounds as though this was unexpected and uh and unplanned uh Netanyahu uh beaming like a schoolboy because he must know uh that if the war uh ends, uh his uh prosecutions uh resume.
What happens if uh now that the hostages, the Israeli hostages are back, and by the way, we didn't see any Western media views of the Palestinian hostages being released.
Mr. Barguti was number one on that list.
Netanyahu himself crossed his name off after the Americans agreed, uh, after the other Arab countries agreed.
So I don't know how he could do that with a so-called agreement.
Nevertheless, what happens if he resumes bombing and starvation in Gaza?
Well, I think um, judging from the demeanor of President Trump, absolutely nothing will happen in terms of American uh reproach or uh or efforts to block that.
Uh so the guarantee that Hamas uh so uh vocally accepted doesn't exist.
Um you can't have an agreement that is not agreed between the parties.
Um as I said earlier, the Palestinians were not consulted on any element of this agreement.
They didn't agree to it.
Um it was imposed on them.
They accepted phase one of the agreement.
Um Israel also has not accepted the anything beyond phase one, which is the return of the hostages in a ceasefire, along with one hopes, substantial influx of food and medical supplies for the beleaguered population in Gaza.
Uh so uh as I said, this is this is not a this is not a peace, it's not even a step toward peace.
Uh it's a new form of pacification campaign, not military for the time being, but leaving open the possibility, in fact, a very likely probability that uh a pretext will be found to resume the genocide.
We're we're going to isolate what you just said and play it when the pretext is uh is triggered.
Uh would it surprise you to learn that among the guests uh in uh Air Force One uh and one of Trump's honored guests on the floor of the or in the gallery of the Knesset was Mrs. Miriam Adelson.
No, it would not.
And um uh I suspect uh that when he proposed a pardon for Netanyahu, uh, he was in part addressing her.
Yes.
Uh Ambassador Freeman, uh, great commentary.
Thank you so much.
You're so filled with intellectual honesty and personal courage.
It's a joy for me to chat with you.
I know this is not your usual day or your usual time.
I have a a different week coming up, and I truly appreciate your accommodating my schedule.
I know you have a very busy week as well.
Thank you so much, my dear friend.
We'll look forward to seeing you next week at your usual uh day and time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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