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Sept. 29, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
22:17
Ray McGovern : Can Gaza Get Food ?
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Monday, September 29th, 2025.
Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on can Gaza get food?
Can Ukraine get tomahawks?
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Greg McGovern, welcome here, my dear friend.
It was great spending time with you in person after all these years of working together at Gerald Salenti's rally on Saturday and...
And I enjoyed all of our time together and I enjoyed all of our time together on air.
Before we get to Gaza and Tomahawks, I had a fascinating conversation with Larry earlier, Larry Johnson, about Trende Aragua.
Does the CIA fund foreign drug dealers for some nefarious purpose?
Does it do that?
They do do that.
I had the good fortune to be able to listen to Larry after I got back off the plane.
He's a wealth of information on this, not only for what he did during his CIA analytical work.
He was in the State Department and counterterrorism.
He knows that these guys are ginned up, paid for, and uh the president just signs a finding and says, You guys go ahead and do it.
So the head of Syria now is one of the guys that chopped off a lot of heads.
I mean, literally, personally, chopped the now it's now General Petraeus is scraping and saying, Oh man, you know, you know, it was a four-star when we didn't like you, but we love you now.
Give me a I don't want to dwell on this, and we can't post it, but Chris has a picture of him, the now president of Syria holding two heads that he had recently cut off.
It's obviously revolting to watch, and we won't uh and can't.
Well, he was one of our moderate moderate terrorists, Judge.
What is the logic behind funding monsters, whether they're cutting off heads or whether they're getting uh drugs into the West?
Well, President Obama said uh Bashar al Assad's days are finished.
We're gonna split them apart and split Syria apart.
And whom does that benefit?
Well, a state called Israel.
Just like it benefited Israel when we did what we did in Iraq.
So Israel is always the principal factor here, and Israel has uh stolen a march in southern Syria.
Whether they're up to what the Turks are likely to do to Syria is another question.
But the Syrian people like one of my taxi drivers was from Syria.
I was talking to him just yesterday.
My God, what a sad, sad story.
Well, um, do we know if uh Tulsi Gabbard is giving intel to the president?
Or if John Ratcliffe, who heads the CIA, is doing it independent of her, or is it something we'll never know the answer to?
Well, I hope not, uh, because to hear the president spew out what General Kellogg tells him.
Right.
That's my point.
His fantasy.
Now, the key here, uh, Judge, is that uh Kellogg talks to Zelensky.
And so he knows the latest, and then he tells the president now, Zelensky told me that we're winning, we're winning, and the Russia's a losing the Russian economy is falling apart.
So I get that firsthand from Zelensky.
Now the same thing happened with Bill Burns for God's sake.
When he told the president early July, two years ago, to say that Putin had already lost, uh, that his army had been shown as incompetent for the whole world to see.
I found out where he had been the previous week.
He was talking to Zelensky.
And I'm sure Zelensky said, now, Bill, no problems.
When you see the President Helsinki, you tell him to say, or Putin has already looked, we got this, we got this all quartered out a bit.
Don't worry about it.
So are these people totally naive?
Well, I dare say when people like Gwitkov will have a chance to look at all this stuff and see the history behind these Tomahawk missiles, for example, they were banned, you know, under the INF Treaty.
Uh they'll see a little bit more about how the Russians look at these things and how however agreeable they are.
Lavrov, now Lavrov at at the UN and at his subsequent press conference, bent over backwards.
What about question from Sky News?
What about uh Trump calling you guys a paper tiger?
What about that?
Lavror.
Oh, people say things in public that they don't really mean.
It's really kind of strange, but you know, this it's part of the calculus.
What they say in private is what we do diplomacy to prevent what.
I mean, in other words, they're bending over backwards to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.
Now, does Trump really want peace?
I think he does.
The question is whether with the Kellogg's around and with these false reassurances that the Soviet economy is falling apart, and for him to spew that thing, oh, when did he do it?
Oh, that was right after he talked to Zelensky, wasn't it?
Hours after.
So no, the big thing here, Judge, what I'm trying to say is that the Soviets, Soviets, the Russians are not taking all this very seriously, at least they're pretending not to.
Now there comes to a point where the military will go to uh to President Putin and say, look, you know, we know the kind of game that uh Lavarov is playing.
That's called diplomacy.
But Tomahawks are not diplomacy.
And Joe Biden promised not to put medium-strike missiles in Ukraine.
He did that right before the negotiations started in Geneva in early January 2022.
Okay.
He did that solemnly in a phone call with Joe Biden.
Now, no people don't know about this.
Maybe it was because of the holidays.
But the Russians called up the White House and said, look, um, President Putin wants to talk to President uh Biden, by the way.
I said, well, wait a second, they just talked two weeks ago, and the negotiators are getting together in Geneva and 10 days.
Wait, please, please.
Well, Biden was home alone for Christmas, uh, if you get the illusion.
No one is with him.
And here's the readout from Ushakov, who is very much still in the picture.
This is the day after, namely December 31, 2021.
Ushkov is Uhkov is sort of upbeat.
He says, look, we're Moscow is pleased with the outcome of that telephone conversation between Mr. Biden and Mr. Poutine.
Um, because uh because uh the pres the uh the President of the United States, here it is.
Quote, in this context, President Biden emphasized that Russia and the U.S. shared a special responsibility for ensuring stability in Europe.
And that Washington, get this, folks.
That Washington had no intention of deploying offensive strike missiles in Ukraine, period.
End quote.
A solemn commitment.
It's on the record.
What happened just two weeks later?
Lavrov corners, Tony Blinken.
And he says, Tony, the negotiators in Geneva pretend not to have any instructions about what the president pledged on the 30th of December.
What's going on?
And Tony Blinkett says, give me a break.
We weren't with him.
Solomon wasn't with him.
He was home alone.
Forget about it.
Okay, forget about it.
We have the right to put medium strike missiles in Ukraine.
And we will if they ask us to.
No, no, Mr. Lavrov.
We might be able to talk about limiting the number of them, but forget about what the president said.
We know that because Lavrov said that in an interview.
I read all these interviews.
Okay.
So what happened two weeks later, on the 12th of February, just two weeks before the invasion of uh of uh uh Ukraine, uh we had the last telephone call between the two.
And what does that say?
Right?
It says, well, look, uh, here's Ushakov again.
Uh the the well, he says this uh this was not well the president of the United States refused not only to talk about no Ukraine in NATO, but also about his pledge made on the 30th of uh January 2022 not to put offensive uh strike missiles in in uh uh in Ukraine.
Now, what are offensive strike missiles?
Well, they're gonna I'm gonna stop you for just a minute, Ray.
We're going to play uh a clip of General Kellogg and Tomo Russells, but before we do that, forgive the interruption.
We have Netanyahu and Trump live.
We're gonna listen to them for just a moment, we'll get right back to you.
No problem.
Iran, and I know them well, have many friends from Iran and many friends that are uh Americans from Iran, and they're very proud of Iran.
But uh I hated to do it just so you understand, and I hope we're gonna be able to do something so that it doesn't end up in a very catastrophic situation.
I don't want to see that happen.
I I want us I I really want to see peace, and I hope that we're able to do that.
They cannot have a nuclear weapon.
It's very simple.
I'm not putting restrictions, I'm not they cannot have one thing, they cannot have a nuclear weapon.
And if I think that they will have a nuclear weapon, despite what I just said, that I think that's going to be very unfortunate for them.
If, on the other hand, they can convince us that they won't, and I hope they can.
It's very easy to do.
It's actually very easy to do.
I think they're gonna have an unbelievable future.
Yeah, please, sir.
Go ahead.
Thank you, Mr. President.
You just laid out your plan for Gaza.
Yes.
Can you uh laid out your plan for Ukraine and also for Ukraine for Ukraine, yes.
Uh, you consider yourself a strong leader.
You blame your predecessor for letting Russia to take over Ukraine.
What do you demand from Putin to get out of Ukraine from sovereign territory of Ukraine?
So we're dealing right now in the subject.
I don't want to spend a lot of time because we're here for another reason, but we are having very good talks, very constructive talks on Ukraine.
We are uh talking to the Russians, we're talking to the Ukrainian leadership.
Uh it would have never happened.
That would have never happened.
It should have never happened.
Uh, I get reports every week.
The number of soldiers, mostly soldiers now, the cities have been largely demolished.
You talk about a uh Ray, we're Uh we're back to you.
If if they make anything dramatic, uh we'll uh we'll bring it to you as soon as we can.
But you did notice that whatever when Trump was speaking, Netanyahu did not look very happy.
So we don't know what they talked about.
Well, let me let me make a guess.
Let me make a guess, Judge.
Uh please.
The key issue, of course, is whether Iran is working on a nuclear weapon, not nuclear enrichment.
Okay.
Uh the two are conflated and that's misleading.
Iran was uh was formerly judged not to be working on a nuclear weapon since the end of 2003, a judgment reiterated as recently as March this year by Tulsi Gabbard.
Now, what's changed?
Well, it all has to do with the IAEA.
Now there's a simple way to load up back in there, okay, and have them verify with all their cameras and all the other stuff and the the overhead photography from our satellites that they that there's no evidence, let me put it that way, that they're working on a specific nuclear weapon.
Now, I know people say well, they could do this in in a in a apartment house.
I'm not sure they can do that, but there's a fatwa against it.
A fatwa is important to Muslims.
It's not like an encyclical, you know, could take it or leave it, okay?
Sorry about that, but that's the way it seems.
When you have uh when you have a religious edict like this, not only does it have to be reversed, but my best sources tell me it has to be reversed in public.
It's a big major issue.
It's got to be before the parliament, they gotta do this whole thing.
So let me stop you because when uh Ritter and Blumenthal and uh Professor Sachs and I had lunch with the president of Iran last week here in New York, he said the exact same thing that you have just said.
Whoa.
Well, yeah, let's false.
It was not a public meeting, it was private.
How they chose who was going to be there, I don't know, but he said just what you just said, right?
You're as usual uh 100% uh on the mark.
Chris, let's dip in and hear what Netanyahu was saying.
Thank you.
Chris uh go ahead, please.
Do you have any plans to visit Israel?
To visit where?
Israel in Gaza.
Oh, uh well, I love I love Israel.
I will visit there and I'll visit Gaza and I'll visit Saudi Arabia and I'll visit other places all over the Middle East.
The Middle East is an incredible place, so vibrant, so uh it's just uh one of the really beautiful places and with great people.
All right, I thought uh something more uh profound was coming.
I apologize for interrupting you.
Right, you're providing us with such extraordinary information and even uh history today.
Let me ask you a few questions about Gaza.
Why have no countries provided humanitarian assistance to the suffering Palestinians?
Why aren't their Spanish warships delivering supplies or British helicopters dropping them over Gaza?
Because they're afraid they'll be shot, they're shut up.
The Israelis uh have this fixation on using violence to protect themselves, so to speak.
It almost happened to us on the U.S. boat to Gaza in 2011.
Um they'll do this, and if the U.S. is in full support of Israel, as uh by all evidence it seems to be still even with genocide and forced starvation.
Well, uh the Spaniards, the Italians who have sent warships now to to pick up the pieces in case uh people have to dive overboard after the Russia after the Israelis drop uh drop whatever on the top of their decks.
So all I'm saying is that Israel is very intimidating, and unless the U.S. takes the lead and saying, all right, this is enough, okay.
There are 42 boats, not ships but boats on their way to Gaza now, okay.
There's also another boat just starting, and right, my friend, is on that.
They're they're uh they're uh uh journalists, so journalists and another protection.
I think it's it's doctors.
Now they're going to.
So you know, will the will will the Israelis blow these up?
Well, you know, I have mixed emotions about that.
I hope not.
But if they do, my God, the Uniting for Peace resolution will be, in my view, unable to escape.
And finally, the UN can act if someone has some teeth, get around the U.S. veto, and send peacekeeping forces like the Indonesians have already volunteered 10,000 troops.
The Chinese may participate.
That would be the end of our friend Netanyahu.
Uh, but it's necessary.
People are dying every day.
I mean, I never thought our country would be supporting, enabling, financing, and apologizing for genocide.
Should American uh ships in the Mediterranean fear a false flag instigated by the Israelis?
Well, it happened before, didn't it?
Uh USS Liberty in June on June 8th, uh, 1967.
That was a little bit different from a false flag, but the Israelis are capable of anything.
They see this as an existential thing.
And that's why what really worries me is that people who know a lot more about Iran and Israel than I do seem convinced that it's just a matter of time before Israel hits out at Iran once again, and then the U.S. may be dragged into it again.
If that happens, the Iranians have the capability to destroy Israel now.
Is Israel going to sit back and say, well, home, nothing ventured, nothing.
No, they have nuclear weapons for God's sake.
That's what really scares me.
Would in extremists would Netanyahu resort to small nuclear weapons?
Well, here's a guy who does genocide, forced starvation, all kinds of other stuff.
You think you would shrink away from using one of those nukes in extremist?
No, I don't.
That's what the problem is.
That's why we have to get Trump and his associates to realize look, for God's sake, tell them to stop.
Tell them to stop now and don't have another round of attacks on Iranian nuclear facilities.
We just watched President uh Trump in the presence of uh Prime Minister Netanyahu saying he hopes that the Iranians are not developing a nuclear weapon because they're good people, uh, they're peaceful people, and he looks forward to a relationship with them.
Netanyahu doesn't want that.
Netanyahu wants to destroy Iran and turn it into another Syria, doesn't he?
He does.
And, you know, the the proof is in the pudding here.
Uh, can Trump how much however much he really loves the Iranian people?
Can he defy Netanyahu when Netanyahu has been jerking or jerking him around for the last three years on the end of a rope?
Now, I haven't given up hope.
Uh, I think a lot of the domestic unrest that we have in our country, the people who are saying no, no.
Uh, we we don't give um 80% support for uh for Israel anymore in a knee-jerk kind of way.
It's less than 50%, Mr. President.
Can you recognize that?
I think that may have an impact, but I wish it would happen soon before another tenth of the Palestinian population is either killed or starved to death.
Ray McGovern, thank you very much, uh, my dear friend.
A pleasure, no matter what we're talking about.
Thank you for all the uh factual analysis that you bring to us.
We look forward to seeing you with Larry Johnson on Friday.
Thanks, Judge.
See you then.
Thank you.
All the best.
And coming up at uh two o'clock this afternoon, Scott Ritter at three o'clock, Max Blumenthal at four o'clock, Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Justin Paulitana for judging freedom,
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