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June 16, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
25:57
Ray McGovern : Is Trump a Tyrant?
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Hi, everyone.
Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Monday, June 16, 2025.
Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on, is Trump a tyrant?
Does he know what he's doing?
What did he know about the Israeli attack on Iran, and when did he know it?
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Ray McGovern, welcome here, my dear friend.
We have a great deal to analyze on the Israeli attack on Iran and the Iranians' response.
But before we do, Veterans for Peace, why were they marching on Saturday?
They were marching for two reasons.
The fact that the oppression in Los Angeles is including Our former colleagues in the Marines and in the National Guard in repressing our own people.
And the other thing, of course, was Iran and Israeli attack on Iran.
Our veterans, including myself, know a little bit about what war is like.
So both in New York and in Washington, we mounted activities and not just rhetoric.
And I have to say I'm very proud of my colleagues.
Sorry not to be able to join them.
Last month in Saudi Arabia, President Trump denounced neocons, condemned Western military intervention in the Middle East, and proclaimed himself the president of peace.
Was all of that a ruse?
Well, I don't know who slipped that into his speech, Judge, but that was idiosyncratic.
The neocons are still exerting a primary influence here.
The question is whether there will be resentment now at Trump having been double-crossed by Netanyahu and by the neocons.
This whole notion that Trump was informed beforehand Well, I have some experience with what the Israelis do when they launch an attack on all Egypt or Syria or some other country.
They do not ask for permission.
They ask for forgiveness after the fact.
I have no reason to think that this was not the case this time.
How do you explain?
How do you explain Trump being so vociferous on Friday morning with Dana Bash and the others?
Excellent, excellent.
We're winning.
I knew about this, of course.
Well, I explained it by saying, my God, he thought Israel had won.
He had been told, oh, hey, President, remember all those highly valued air defense systems that Russia gave Iran?
We shut them down, for God's sake.
We shut them down.
And Israel has free reign to bomb the hell out of here.
We've won this one.
That was the atmosphere early on Friday morning, and so he's saying these things on Truth Bash and Truth Social as well as Bash.
Did he know about it?
Well, I don't think he did, but who knows exactly what he knew.
The Israelis don't ask for permission.
They always like to ask for forgiveness, and they were winning, and Trump was jumping on the bandwagon, in my view.
Is it likely that an attack of this nature that took 18 months to plan would have involved MI6 and CIA, as well as Mossad and other Israeli elements?
Of course, Judge.
These contingency plans always are in vogue and working.
The problem is the timing.
Now, people say that this was a real clever subterfuge by Trump.
I don't know.
Would he say prospects are pretty good for the negotiations the day before?
Would he express some hope that this is all going to work out so the day before?
Would he say we're going to negotiations on Sunday, you know, two days before?
I don't know, but I don't think so.
I think he was mousetrapped and he was delighted to be mousetrapped because he thought that Israel had won Mao.
Look what happened after Friday, Saturday, Saturday morning.
Putin calls Trump.
My God, Putin calls Trump?
Yeah, that's the new element, by the way.
That's a salutary factor.
The two top leaders are talking.
Now, what did Trump say about Putin's call?
Well, here's truth social.
President Putin called me earlier this morning, very nicely wished me a happy birthday.
But more importantly, Talk at length about Iran, a country he knows quite well.
We're going to talk about Ukraine next week, last sentence.
He feels, Putin feels as I do, this war in Israel-Iran should end, to which I explained his war should also end, the one in Ukraine.
Now, more important was the Russian readout.
And this is really interesting, Judge.
The conversation was substantive, sincere, and very useful.
The main thing, very useful, says Ushakov, Putin's man on this, who gave the readout.
Vladimir Putin denounced Israel's military operation, but then he reminded that there were Russian mediation offers in the offing.
And that the current escalation needs specific steps to meet mutually agreements so there's no escalation.
Putin reminded Trump that prior to the current escalation, we, Russians, had proposed specific steps intended to reach mutually acceptable agreements.
What was that?
The Russians said, well, we'll take the enriched uranium.
We'll keep it safe.
It's very easy to deal with this.
This was not about uranium enrichment.
This was about regime change.
And the Russians know it quite well.
Everything you just said is consistent with the dissipation of the Israeli euphoria on Friday, the profound dissipation of the euphoria.
I do want to run a clip, though.
Let me just finish, Judge, with the key sentence here at the end of this statement by Ushakov.
Both leaders, Trump and Putin, express satisfaction with the established personal relations that make it possible to communicate sincerely, okay, and in the business-like mode.
Search for resolution of pressing issues.
Now, that's new, okay?
Sincerely, you have to know the rubrics here.
When the Russians talk about sincerity, this means something.
Otherwise, they talk about candor or frankness or, you know, whatever.
But since the Russians are giving Trump the benefit of the doubt and leaving him a way out, not only the Russians, but the Chinese have expressed their willingness to mediate.
So if Trump is smart enough, he'll grab at that.
I don't know if he's smart enough or he can face down the neocons.
I suppose it depends on who he's listening to, the neocons or if there's any America firsters left in his circle.
Here's Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday claiming he told Trump about this ahead of time.
I mean, the two of them are both inveterate liars, so who knows what to believe, but we'll listen.
Chris, cut number seven.
When did you tell President Trump you were going to launch these strikes?
Look, I've been in constant contact with President Trump.
We've known each other for many years.
And obviously, we informed our American friends and President Trump, our great friend, ahead of time.
He knew about it, of course.
He knew about it, of course.
I guess he didn't tell his Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, that is the nominal and de facto Secretary of State.
Who, of course, posted on social media that the United States knew nothing about it and had nothing to do with the planning.
Seems from Alistair earlier today, and I gather from you as well, and we'll hear from others throughout the day.
Larry's on in an hour and a half.
That Iran's response has been more terrifying and catastrophic than the Israelis even told their own people, and that Iran's air defenses have not been substantially degraded, nor has there offensive weaponry.
That's very clear, Judge, and the proof is in the pudding.
Trump listened to Putin.
He said, yeah, okay, if you want to mediate, that's good.
Actually, the Russian media yesterday said, you know, Trump said he had no problem with Russian mediation here.
So, yeah, the tide has changed.
Israel cannot prevail without U.S. support.
That's why you have Netanyahu and Dana Bash and everybody else saying, oh, you know all about it, so he's going to keep supporting them or else he's a renegade and a coward.
So the pressure is on Trump.
But, you know, I kind of think there's a better than even chance to say, you know, I hate being mousetrapped.
I don't know if I'm going to be dragged.
I think the Russians and the Chinese may be able to work something out because they have a big, big stake in the oil.
And the fact that, you know, Iran is right next to Russia there.
They don't want an atomic explosion or a nuclear explosion and a fallout going through the past Caspian Sea.
I mean, the nuclear issue is key here.
Nobody mentions it.
But I don't put it past Netanyahu in dire straits, in extremis, as we say, to resort to nuclear weapons.
Why does anybody call attention to that?
That's what I think is motivating the Russians and the Chinese.
Is it your view that Trump's snub of Netanyahu when he went to the Middle East was a stunt?
That the leaked information from the White House that Trump was angry with Netanyahu was a stunt.
All of this, that Trump's statements two days before the attack were looking forward to the next round of negotiation was a stunt.
The Whitcoff saying, yes, they can have enrichment.
No, they can't.
Yes, they can.
No, they can't.
Was a stunt.
That all of this was part of American plotting and planning to deceive and lull the Iranians into a false sense of security so that Netanyahu could attack during that false sense of security.
I know that's the general feeling out there, Judge, but that assumes that Trump is really clever and that the neocons really don't have such a hold on him.
I don't think, you know, what Whitcoff said to the Jewish group there was just so outlandish just a couple of days before all this went down, and it looked like they were preparing.
The Russians said, you know, you ought to go ahead, go to Oman, see if you can meet with the Iranians.
Of course, the Iranians wouldn't be under these circumstances, but the negotiations are now being propounded by the Russians and by the Chinese.
You know, Judge, what worries me most is this: the Shiites in Iraq, the predominant majority, are really ticked off now, okay?
their government has said, "US, get the hell out of our country, finally, would you please, like you agreed to several years ago?" And I'm afraid that whether a Shiite in his own interests or whether Israeli agents in
And it was done by the Iranian-sponsored terrorists.
You can't get out of this now.
That's what I feel right now because Israel is in dire straits.
A false flag attack is more than likely, it seems to me.
Wow.
Dana Bash from CNN.
Apparently, she was given a telephone interview with the president over the weekend, which she was not permitted to record.
No, it was Friday morning, Judge.
Very early Friday morning.
That's important.
Whenever it was, she had this interview with him, and then she called into CNN to recount from her memory and her notes what he told her.
Here's a portion of what she said, particularly the last few lines which turned Alistair's stomach.
Chris, cut number 12. And then he went on to say this.
Iran should have listened to me when I said, you know, I gave them, I don't know if you know this, but I gave them a 60-day warning, and today is day 61. And then he said, they, meaning Iran, should now come to the table to make a deal before it's too late.
And then he said something really noteworthy.
He said, the people I was dealing with are dead.
The hardliners.
To which I just wanted to underscore.
So what you're saying is, Israel has now killed the people who you were dealing with.
And he said very sarcastically, they didn't die of the flu.
They didn't die of COVID.
Does any of this surprise you?
Well, it turns my stomach too, Trump, but one must remember that this was the heyday.
This is when Iranian air defense forces had been not working for, we later learned, eight hours, okay?
Israel was winning, right?
And so Trump said the same thing on Truth Social at exactly the same time that he gave Dina Bash a special interview.
It was this heady atmosphere that Israel was winning, whether they told us or not.
I mean, how embarrassing would it be for me to say, "Well, this beats the hell out of me.
The Israelis have attacked me." I mean, he didn't have the option of saying, "No, I didn't know anything about it." Now the whole thing has changed, okay?
Now it's very clear that Iran is winning, okay?
And oil terminals in Israel, not to mention nuclear facilities, are being hit by Hypersonic missiles that cannot be defended against.
So, Putin is offering on Saturday morning, right?
He's offering Trump a way out here.
Look, let us be mediators.
And Trump the next day, yesterday, says, I have no problem with Russia being mediators and the Chinese as well.
So there is a chance that...
This is a lose-lose unless he comes to terms with the fact that, yeah, they got those air defense facilities up right quick, and now it's Israeli air defense facilities that are being obliterated.
Do we know how much damage the Israelis caused?
Did they, in fact, as they claim?
I don't know, Judge, but I'm told that Fortville, where they have the real centrifuges and all, is a half mile down into a mountain.
Now, if that's true, there are only certain weapons that the U.S. might try to use to get at those.
I don't think these mother of all bombs are going to be given to Israel.
Nuclear weapons could do it too, but my God, the US is not going to do that first.
I hope will Israel do that first.
I just don't know.
Here's a guy doing genocide in Gaza.
Here's a guy that I think mousetrapped our president.
Here's a guy that does all kinds of things without warning.
This is another thing that hasn't been emphasized.
Two days before he did this, he almost lost a no-confidence vote in the Knesset, and he would have been out, and he and his wife would have probably ended up in jail.
Now, do I impute that kind of motive to Netanyahu?
Yeah, I do.
All bets are off, and the nuclear thing is big.
Do you believe that Netanyahu asked Trump for permission to assassinate the Ayatollah, which is what they've leaked this morning, and Trump said no?
No, I don't.
I don't have to see the sourcing on that.
I don't think it sounds plausible to me at first blush.
Right, right.
And I wonder where it goes from here.
Alistair, again, quoted that he retired.
Israeli general is saying we will be begging for them to stop and they won't.
Does he mean the Israelis to stop?
A retired Israeli general saying we will soon be begging the Iranians to stop attacking us and they won't.
Well, he's got that right.
Look, the Iranians have the upper hand.
They have all kinds of advantages.
The size of Iran, 90 million people, the size of the territory there, they can't lose against Israel in a protracted war.
Israel's going to run out of things before Iran does, and Iran has pretty much support from not only Russia, China, but India.
And Pakistan, which has nuclear weapons.
So, you know, if Netanyahu is smart and Trump gets some smarts, he's going to say, look, you know, it was a really neat thing there on Thursday night, man.
I was so elated there.
I gave those big comments.
But forget about it now.
Make a deal.
I can help you make a deal.
And the Russians and the Chinese have already said that that'd help, and I have nothing against that, says Trump.
Colonel McGregor reports that numerous Mossad agents have been arrested in Iran by the Iranian intelligence services.
Can't be a good thing for Mossad.
Well, you know, they were bragging.
I mean, a lot of those so-called rocket attacks or missile attacks from Israel into Iran, they were disguised.
I mean, they were actually Agent bombs, car bombs, and stuff like that are represented as airstrikes.
You know, this was after the air defenses got back up.
So, yeah, Mossad is deeply involved in all this, of course, and it won't be hard to trace who was where at what time.
And, you know, Mossad is used to taking losses like this.
I don't think it will impede them in any way.
We started this conversation by asking you about Veterans for Peace and marching.
Here's a non-veteran who happens to be an eye surgeon.
He's also the junior senator from Kentucky who has a very interesting observation about President Trump's parade.
You know, I'm all for the president appearing and doing enlistment ceremonies at military bases.
I've been with the president at Dover to receive home our dead soldiers.
And so those who have been killed in action and to mourn their loss.
But I just never liked the idea of the parade because I grew up in the 70s and 80s.
And the only parades I can remember are Soviet parades for the most part or North Korean parades.
And the parades I remember from our history.
We're different.
Everybody remembers that famous scene of the soldier dipping the girl and kissing the girl in New York in a ticker tape parade.
But we were rejoicing the end of war, and we were rejoicing our soldiers coming home.
And that absolutely ought to be commemorated and discussed every year, Memorial Day, Veterans Day.
But we never glorified weapons so much.
And I know he means well.
I don't think he means for any of this to be depicted in another fashion.
But I'm just not a big fan.
And then there is the cost.
I mean, we're $2 trillion in the hole, and just an additional cost like this, I'm not for it.
Oh, well, it's a parade.
We spent $50 million on it.
history.
He got his moment in the sun and will probably want to do it in another year when he turns 80. You know, Josh, it reminds me of something that At the very end of World War II, after the Russians had lost 27 million people, they paraded the German soldiers up into the city.
I forget which city it was.
And these young kids, they're hungry, they're tired, and they stopped the platoon and just let the crowd all gather around them.
And there was hate.
And a Russian babushka, an old grandmother, went up to one of the young 16-year-old German soldiers and gave him a piece of bread and some other things that she had there.
It changed the whole tone of the thing.
It was a human, human gesture.
And the onlookers, yeah, they still had a bit of hatred in their eyes, but say, look, let's be human to these guys.
And I say that parades need to be human, and that was just the opposite of the chest-thumping that we all witnessed yesterday.
Thank you, Ray.
Thanks very much for your time.
We look forward to seeing you with Larry Johnson at the Intelligence Community Roundtable on Friday.
All the best, my friend.
You're most welcome, Judge.
Thank you.
And the aforementioned Larry Johnson will be here at 1.30.
Excuse me, at 11.30, his usual time, 11.30.
At 1 o 'clock, Scott Ritter.
At 2 o 'clock, Professor Saeed Mohammed Morandi from Tehran.
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