Feb. 11, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
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| Hi, everyone. | |
| Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. | |
| Today is Tuesday, February 11th, 2025. | |
| Matt Ho joins us now. | |
| Matt, it's a pleasure. | |
| As always, thank you for joining us. | |
| When I was thinking about formulating my chat with you, I tentatively called it Trump and the Rules. | |
| That is really an oxymoron. | |
| I mean, he has called for a violation. | |
| What do you make of this? | |
| Does he know what he's doing? | |
| No, I don't think he does. | |
| I mean, just look at, Judge, his, first, thank you for having me back on, but, you know, just his desire to fight anyone and everyone around the world, domestic and internationally, allies and adversaries. | |
| Just, for example, this 25% tariff on steel and aluminum just makes no sense, you know, to take on the entire world in a trade war. | |
| Along with all the other threats and admonishments and bullying he's been doing, he is someone who has come into this Oval Office in a manner that we've never seen before. | |
| And he's got an eager partner in Benjamin Netanyahu. | |
| So today, Benjamin Netanyahu echoed what Donald Trump said about the hostages, about resuming. | |
| Their military operations, Israeli military operations in Gaza, if the hostages are not free by noon on Saturday. | |
| And the Jerusalem Post qualified that and said that Netanyahu was referring to the three hostages, not all the hostages, as Trump was referring to all the hostages. | |
| But there's a madness here. | |
| And the danger is that Trump has a willing partner in Netanyahu. | |
| Printed it out, Judge, because I want to make sure our audience heard these statements from Netanyahu yesterday after he got returned home from the United States, just how joyous he was, how celebratory he was, and how excited he is about Donald Trump being in the White House. | |
| Netanyahu said, This trip and the conversations we held with the President of the United States included additional incredible achievements that can guarantee the security of Israel for generations. | |
| He said, I am not exaggerating. | |
| I'm not overstating. | |
| There are opportunities here for possibilities that I don't think we ever dreamed of, or at least until the last few months. | |
| They didn't seem possible, but they are possible. | |
| So, I mean, he's got, regardless of what we think he's going to do, what Trump is going to do, it doesn't really matter so much because this is what the Israelis think he is going to do. | |
| And so the Israelis are going to move forward in not just Gaza, but the West Bank and East Jerusalem and throughout the region with this confidence that they've got the United States not behind them, but leading them into, as Netanyahu said, | |
| opportunities and possibilities that they never dreamed of before. | |
| Here's what he said yesterday about the hostages. | |
| Chris, number seven. | |
| As far as I'm concerned, if all of the hostages aren't returned by Saturday at 12 o'clock, I think it's an appropriate time. | |
| I would say cancel it and all bets are off and let hell break out. | |
| I'd say they ought to be returned by 12 o'clock on Saturday, and if they're not returned, all of them, not in drips and drabs, not two and one and three and four and two. | |
| Saturday at 12 o'clock. | |
| And after that, I would say all hell is going to break out. | |
| And I don't think they're going to do it. | |
| I think a lot of them are dead. | |
| I think a lot of the hostages are dead. | |
| I think it's a great human tragedy what's happened. | |
| Wait, did he mention the Palestinian hostages? | |
| We'll get to that in a minute. | |
| But this is an agreement drafted by the Americans, signed by his administration. | |
| It's only been in existence for a month, and he wants to violate it. | |
| This is the agreement that, was it two weeks ago, Judge? | |
| Three weeks ago was the inauguration? | |
| That they were bragging about. | |
| It was right before the inauguration. | |
| Biden took credit, and then Trump took credit. | |
| Right. And then during, on inauguration day, the spectacle... | |
| In the Capital One arena, the whole afternoon of Inauguration Day was dedicated to celebrating this hostage agreement, and he's willing to break it. | |
| But this is who he is. | |
| This is who he's always been. | |
| You have this dangerous situation we're in now where you have someone like Donald Trump in the position of the emperor. | |
| And, you know, the emperor makes the rules. | |
| The empire's rules are their own rules. | |
| There are no rules other than that. | |
| And we certainly saw that with Joe Biden and his administration, with their just complete disregard, dismissal, defilement of any type of international law or any type of international standards or institutions. | |
| And right now, as we talk, maybe they've wrapped up by now, but Donald Trump was meeting with King Abdullah. | |
| of Jordan who has come to the United States and who will, in my estimation, be representing not just the Arab world, but the broader Middle East and most of the rest of the world in terms of providing an initial opposition to Donald Trump's plans. | |
| But he seems to thrive on the adversary. | |
| He seems to thrive on this battle. | |
| And again, this idea that we have this man in the White House who is willing to take on everyone all at once without any sense or strategy or intelligence about it is obviously very concerning. | |
| What do you think he's asking King Abdullah? | |
| I mean, if he asks him to take three quarters of a million Palestinians... | |
| I believe that's impossible. | |
| But if he asks him to do that and the king says yes, will he have a kingdom? | |
| Will he be king much longer? | |
| I think maybe the argument on Trump and the American government's behalf is that, look, Your Excellency, if you do take these Palestinians in, you may or may not survive. | |
| If you do not take them in, you will not survive. | |
| I think that is the implicit threat, Judge, that they will... | |
| Destroy Jordan. | |
| That if you do not do what we say, your economic assistance, your humanitarian assistance, your military assistance will all go away. | |
| That's billions of dollars to the Jordanians. | |
| But also, too, your ability to trade with anyone will be limited. | |
| We will sanction you, etc., etc., and we will destroy you in the way that we destroyed Syria, the way we destroyed Iraq, the way we destroyed Yemen, etc. | |
| And I don't think those are empty threats. | |
| So I don't think Donald Trump is offering King Abdullah anything. | |
| I think it's just he's threatening him. | |
| And it'd be certainly interesting to see how that is carried out. | |
| But I think that is what the King of Jordan is looking at right now, either damned if he does, damned if he does not. | |
| I don't know if General LCC... | |
| Who's the head of the state in Egypt was there as well, but the president probably would treat him similarly. | |
| Don't you agree? | |
| I think so, Judge. | |
| And I think that, you know, the threats are obvious and the seriousness of it is clear as well. | |
| Why can't the United States do in Jordan what it did in Syria? | |
| There's no reason why it cannot. | |
| And certainly, you know, HTS would be more than happy to... | |
| They provide forces to do in Jordan what they did in Syria. | |
| You know, this is who they are. | |
| And if they were following their parentage, they're following, HCS have found their ancestry coming from Al-Qaeda, then taking King Abdullah, one of the Aspatic monarchs of the Middle East, out of power should be one of the first things they want to try and accomplish. | |
| So, you know, all the threats that are available, all the sticks. | |
| And then I'm sure there will be some carrots offered as well, but we will see what King Abdullah has to say. | |
| It's interesting that there is no press conference scheduled, either after the meeting or during the meeting. | |
| Oftentimes when these leaders meet, they sit in front of the fireplace in the White House and have a nice photo op and take some questions. | |
| There's none of that today, as well as a formal press conference afterwards. | |
| So I have a feeling that Donald Trump was lecturing. | |
| We're offering King Abdullah his ultimatum, and that was all. | |
| Because we've seen in the last week, since Donald Trump, Judge, has issued this desire to take over Gaza, to buy it, to own it, to develop it as a real estate agent would, he's not backed down from that. | |
| He's kept on it. | |
| We've had two or three interviews with him, whether it was the one on Air Force One. | |
| There's another one as well, you know, where he has reinforced this idea that the United States will take over Gaza. | |
| And so this is not empty, and this is, you know, where we're at moving forward. | |
| This is why I think we were correct this last year or so, Judge, as we talked about Gaza, Palestine, the Middle East in general, saying that what's occurring in Gaza may be only the opening chapters of the book, that this may be the beginning. | |
| Of this historical event, this historical era. | |
| There's not a single, according to Professor Sachs, there's not a single head of state on the planet, on the planet, who supports this. | |
| Even our puppets, the Brits, have remained silent on it. | |
| Here's Trump either flying to or from the Super Bowl on Sunday, reinforcing his ideas. | |
| You just said... | |
| About buying and owning Gaza, cut number one, Chris. | |
| Steve Whitcoff said that process would take 10 to 15 years. | |
| Does your commitment to rebuilding Gaza extend beyond your time in office? | |
| I'm committed to buying and owning Gaza. | |
| As far as us rebuilding it, we may give it to other states in the Middle East to build sections of it. | |
| Other people may do it through our auspices. | |
| But we're committed to owning it, taking it. | |
| Well, if he's committed to buying it, that means there's a willing seller. | |
| Who on the face of the earth might that willing seller be, Matt? | |
| I'm assuming he's referring to Israel. | |
| Well, he thinks that Israel owns Gaza and will sell it to him. | |
| That's certainly the belief of the people that surround him, the people who funded his campaign, his own family members, that this is Israel's land. | |
| And so that would be, I think, the buyer, excuse me, the seller would be Israel. | |
| Potentially you could make a stretch, I think, Judge, and say maybe this is the way he's approaching it with Abdullah as well. | |
| Jordan is the custodian of the holy sites, the holy Christian and Muslim sites in Palestine, so he may be making an offer to them as well, wrapping it up, his pitch to them, his threats as a deal. | |
| I mean, everything to him is a transaction. | |
| Everything to him is a deal that can be accomplished, a bargain that can be made. | |
| And the way he's approaching it is no different. | |
| And this idea of the United States owning it, what purposes could that be? | |
| Say it is actualized. | |
| Say there is a process that takes place. | |
| The Palestinians are moved, forcibly relocated out of Gaza. | |
| Then what? | |
| You know, I mean, certainly we see the rapidity of this other than just as simply a real estate deal. | |
| Why would the United States want to own this piece of land? | |
| Trump sees it as an investment. | |
| He sees that there being commercial value in it, just in the same way he's approaching Ukraine now in the last several days, both him and his team talking about Ukraine's natural resources, particularly their rare earth metals and minerals, and how there needs to be a transaction here. | |
| They need to pay us back for what we invested, and then we'll have a deal with them, and then we can move forward. | |
| So everything to Trump is a transaction, and he's dealing in geopolitics. | |
| He's not dealing in a buy-sell contractual agreement between two consensual partners. | |
| So what he's getting into here is incredibly dangerous. | |
| We have a fresh clip of King Abdullah and President Trump. | |
| It's a little over a minute. | |
| It's somewhat unpleasant, but here it is. | |
| Can I see the U.S. own the Gaza Strip? | |
| Well, I think, as I said earlier, the President is looking at Egypt coming to present their plan. | |
| As I said, we will be in Saudi Arabia to discuss how we can work with the President and with the United States. | |
| So I think let's wait until the Egyptians can come and present it to the President and not get ahead of ourselves. | |
| And is there a partial plan in Jordan that you're willing to have in Palestine? | |
| Well, I think what we said, I have to look at the best interests of my country. | |
| I think the President is very happy that we do this thing with 2,000 children. | |
| As quickly as possible. | |
| And again, I believe that the President is looking forward to getting a group of us Arabs here to discuss the overall plan. | |
| And last question, the 2,000 children, are those from the Gaza Strip? | |
| Absolutely, from the Gaza Strip. | |
| Are you willing to change your mind, Mr. President? | |
| That's from the Gaza Strip, the 2,000. | |
| Are you willing to change your mind if you hear the Egyptian and the Arab plan end of the month? | |
| If they present you something different, are you over it? | |
| I think we sort of have gone down the line. | |
| We know pretty much what is going to be presented. | |
| And I think it's going to be something that's going to be magnificent for the Palestinians. | |
| They're going to be in love with it. | |
| I did very well with real estate. | |
| I can tell you about real estate. | |
| They're going to be in love with it. | |
| It's a very small number of people relative to other things that have taken place over the decades and centuries. | |
| It's a very small number. | |
| What is he talking about? | |
| The forcible dislocation of 2 million people is a very small number. | |
| Does he give a damn about the human rights of the Palestinian people any more than Joe Biden did? | |
| No, not at all, Judge. | |
| Not at all. | |
| And it's very surprising that they had this press conference. | |
| This is what two hours ago was being said across, right? | |
| That there's going to be no press conference, no statements. | |
| It just ended. | |
| Yeah, I mean, obviously, Judge Wright, they obviously had an agreeable session that they said, okay, let's bring the cameras in. | |
| Let's bring the media in. | |
| We've reached some... | |
| Type of consensus, if you will, between the United States and Jordan to go forward. | |
| This was not the King of Jordan showing up and telling the President of the United States, no, I don't know how many of us were really expecting that. | |
| You know, of course, you know, look, I mentioned before, HTS and how they filed their parentage and filed in their, you know, Al-Qaeda's footsteps. | |
| Abdullah will be the next to go because he is a monarch. | |
| And you can see that here. | |
| This gets back to this idea of, for Sisi, for Abdullah, for the Saudis, what is best for them? | |
| And of course, the Palestinians will come a distant, distant second to that. | |
| Trump has no interest in them as people. | |
| I don't think he has interest in people in general. | |
| And he looks at the Palestinians as nothing more. | |
| I'm sure Trump's visions for where the Palestinians will go will be a gated community with fountains and ponds and golf courses and the Trump name. | |
| I mean, you could see how mine would think about such things. | |
| But, you know, the idea that this is going to happen peacefully. | |
| Now, for many Palestinians, I will say they may take this because of their children. | |
| When I was in Palestine in November in the West Bank, I encountered this continually. | |
| Palestinians who want to get out because of their children, because of the threat, because of the danger. | |
| And certainly you can understand that Palestinians in Gaza with children will say, I have to get them out. | |
| And that's totally understandable. | |
| But there's also a very, very large element of Palestinians who will never leave and who will fight until their death, as we have seen already for decades now, to prevent their dispossession, prevent their removal, | |
| to prevent their ethnic cleansing. | |
| So, you know, it's going to be interesting to read the readout. | |
| That's put out from this meeting between Abdullah and Trump. | |
| Certainly we heard there that there's going to be something coming in the future. | |
| General Sisi and the Egyptians are coming with a plan. | |
| If that's the case, then you have to think that, okay, relocation to the Sinai, which has always been something that has been considered for the Palestinians in Gaza, moving them into the Sinai, building them a city of their own there, essentially. | |
| This has been stated for a very long time. | |
| And so I assume that's what might be the Egyptian plan. | |
| In exchange then for the support. | |
| To run it, to manage it, to finance it, which, of course, the Egyptians and the Jordanian leadership can skim off of. | |
| So this whole thing gets even uglier and uglier and uglier, Judge. | |
| I mean, King Abdullah made a lot of bluster. | |
| He issued a lot of rhetoric over the last 15, 16 months. | |
| He got in a flight suit. | |
| He flew over Gaza and helped push out humanitarian assistance out of the back of his C-130s. | |
| But when it comes down to it, when he has a... | |
| The chance now to stand up to the President of the United States on behalf of not just the Palestinian people, but all the people, not just in the Middle East, but essentially you could argue of the world, he chose not to do so. | |
| And we know that because now we have a photo op and a little bit of a press conference where two hours ago we were told, do not expect one. | |
| Here's another clip. | |
| Talking about the evacuation of children. | |
| Your Majesty, should we expect that the Jordanian response would be part of a coordinated Arab response? | |
| The response will be from a multitude of countries, Arab, international. | |
| I know the Europeans want to step in. | |
| And again, we'll probably have to look to the help of the United States to make sure that COGAT, which is the clearing agency on the Israeli side, makes it as efficient as possible. | |
| The best way to get to them is by helicopters and get them straight to our institutions. | |
| I also believe that quite a few countries would also probably like to take some of those kids and have them treated in their homes. | |
| I better hire security. | |
| I don't know how much longer his kingdom, his kingship, his monarchy, whatever you want to call it. | |
| It's a creation of 20th century politicians. | |
| It's not a historic monarchy. | |
| It's going to last. | |
| Before I let you go, Trump's words have a way of affecting others. | |
| So about five minutes ago, I never heard of this fellow, but he's the Israeli communications minister, Slomo Karhi. | |
| Quote, we must immediately begin a plan to depopulate Gaza. | |
| Cut off aid, electricity, water, and communications. | |
| Use force until the hostages are returned. | |
| Here's the use of Trump language. | |
| It's time to make hell for Hamas without restrictions on our troops. | |
| This is an invitation to war crimes yet again. | |
| I don't know what restrictions the Israelis operated under in the last 16 months anyway, Judge. | |
| I don't understand what type of hell they're going to bring to people who are living in it right now. | |
| I don't understand what the rhetoric seems to imply. | |
| They will have to go in, if they're serious about this, and push en masse 2 million people out. | |
| Defeat the resistance that they will encounter as they've encountered for the last 16 months. | |
| Leave no one behind. | |
| And so you can imagine if you want, I guess, a greater scorched earth campaign, a greater carpet bombing campaign than we've seen. | |
| But the desire for this, desire to fulfill this part of the greater Israel goal, it seems to be achievable. | |
| In a way that has never been achievable before, or at least in our lifetimes, for the Israelis. | |
| You know, as much as Oslo, the Oslo process, set the Israelis up to take control of the West Bank with settlements, that pales in comparison to what this is allowing them to do or will allow them to do. | |
| So, you know, one thing about this note about what... | |
| King Abdullah just said. | |
| I have to imagine that there are those who are watching, hearing the king speak about working efficiently with the Israelis that will enrage them. | |
| And this idea that the Israelis are somehow going to be willing and effective and efficient conspirators in this, in evacuating 2,000 children to safety, when one of the key points of the ceasefire violations... | |
| That Hamas has been pointing to in this last week that the Israelis are violating has been the refusal by the Israelis to allow sick Palestinians, many of them children, to be evacuated. | |
| So right now, today, the last couple of weeks, Israel has been refusing to allow children who are sick, who were supposedly to be allowed 50 a day to be evacuated from Gaza, to be evacuated. | |
| So somehow now you've got King Abdullah directly contradicting one of the ceasefire violations, as pointed out by Hamas, and saying this is what he's pinging his hopes upon. | |
| I mean, so the ugliness of this judge, you know, there's... | |
| My last piece on Substack, I'm not sure if you saw it, but I think you'll appreciate this. | |
| I was reminded of it by a friend from the Gospel of Luke, where Jesus said, where death is, vultures gather. | |
| And that's what we're seeing here in Gaza. | |
| Thank you, Matt. | |
| Thank you for the beautiful ending, and thank you for allowing me to pick your brain in all this. | |
| Much appreciated. | |
| All the best, my friend. | |
| Thanks, Judge. | |
| You're welcome. | |
| Coming up later today, very shortly, at 3 o'clock, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski. | |
| At 4 o'clock, Colonel Douglas McGregor. | |
| Justice Napolitano for Judging Freedom. |
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