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Feb. 6, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
25:37
[SPECIAL] COL. Douglas Macgregor : Can the US Own Gaza?
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Welcome to this special edition with Colonel Douglas McGregor.
Today is Thursday, February 6th, 2025.
Colonel, events keep happening so quickly and I deeply and profoundly, personally and publicly appreciate your coming back on the show for the second time this week.
Thank you.
I want to concentrate.
On President Trump's remarks in the presence of Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu about the United States owning Gaza.
But before we do, has General Kellogg, President Trump's emissary on Ukraine, offered yet another plan to end the Ukraine war, which presumably wouldn't be offered without the President's approval?
That is an utter non-starter.
Yeah, apparently that's the case.
This looks like the same plan that he and Mr. Flights put together.
I don't think it's going to go anywhere because it involves the things which Lavrov and Putin have said are unacceptable to them.
And I don't see any evidence that the Russians are going to change their position.
They are not going to accept some sort of line based on a frozen conflict.
They're not interested in a Korean-style solution that leaves a demilitarized zone between East and West Ukraine.
And they don't like the idea, obviously, of British troops or any NATO troops inside Ukraine policing the DMZ.
Even though they admit that, yes, we think Ukraine has to be neutral, what's the point of neutrality if you're going to set the situation up like that?
So the Austrian model, which is really the model I think that the Russians would accept, is not really on the table.
And I don't think the president understands he has no leverage over the Russians.
None. And the Austrian model would be total and complete neutrality, non-membership in NATO.
Yes, and no foreign forces at all, anywhere.
You know, what the Russians want to do is put together a regional design that would provide for the security not only of Russia,
which they are obviously interested in, but also Europe and us.
And I think it's a grave error to misinterpret and misunderstand what the Russians want.
This is a once in a...
I don't want to say a century opportunity, but certainly an opportunity that should not be missed for President Trump to sit down with his advisors and design a new way forward for security in Europe that does not involve any future conflict,
that will reduce the tensions, change the way we do business.
It's so vital at this stage because the Russians are not interested in attacking anybody in the West.
General Kellogg is not stupid.
Doesn't he understand the Kremlin's attitude on this?
Doesn't he see what's happened in the past two and a half years?
Doesn't he know what their goals are?
I think General Kellogg, like most people in Washington, are permanently frozen in the Cold War.
They see everything through a lens that is distorted.
They don't understand how the world has changed.
They don't understand our limitations and our capabilities any longer.
They're living in a world that passed over the last 30-plus years.
They think this is 1991.
It's not.
All right.
To the reasons for which I reached out to you in the wee hours, asking if you could join us today, which is the latest on Gaza.
Here is an abbreviated version of one of the more tumultuous statements made by an American president in the modern era.
Of a genocidal murderer and wanted war criminal who was standing next to him.
Chris cut 8A.
The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too.
We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site.
Level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings.
Level it out.
Create an economic development that will supply.
Unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area.
You were talking tonight about the United States taking over a sovereign territory.
What authority would allow you to do that?
Are you talking about a permanent occupation there?
Redevelopment? I do see a long-term ownership position, and I see it bringing great stability to that part of the Middle East and maybe the entire Middle East.
What are the geopolitical considerations, obviously not taken into account, to an announcement of this magnitude, that the United States would own the Gaza Strip?
Well, Judge, this is breathtaking.
This really is breathtaking.
He says that everyone he's talked to is wildly enthusiastic.
Well, I'm sure his Jewish friends in New York City and Las Vegas and elsewhere are enthusiastic.
No doubt Mr. Netanyahu, grinning like a Cheshire cat, is delighted with the prospect of having the United States permanently embroil itself in the tar pit of the Middle East.
We need to point out to the listeners and the viewers that this is being walked back.
If you go towards the end of the day yesterday when all of this developed, this new woman who is a spokesman in the White House, Mrs. Levitt, I think is her name, she made it very clear that this was not something that was going to go forward.
She was...
Very politic about it and very diplomatic, but this is dead in the water.
The other thing is that if he had been serious about this and his staff was doing their jobs, if the NSA was advising him, and for that matter, the Secretary of State, they would have all weighed in and said, Mr. President, let us talk to the people in the region.
What do the people in Cairo think?
What do the people in Riyadh think?
What do the people in Ankara think?
I mean, all of these people have a stake.
He's now not just complicit.
He seems to be trying to extend this wholesale ethnic cleansing operation, mass deportation or mass murder operation in Gaza as far as possible.
And then he tells everyone, well, you know, once we've done this and we've rebuilt this place and it looks like Las Vegas on the Med, anybody can come and live there.
Well, that's like saying we're going to roll over everything on the coast of Florida and Tampa and St. Petersburg, we're going to rebuild everything, and then anybody who wants to live there can come and live there.
Well, this is America.
In the case of the Palestinian Arabs, Gaza is their home.
That's their country.
How can you dispose of all of this without any consideration whatsoever for any feelings or interests?
So I think this has harmed us.
I think it's harmed him.
I think it's made us look ridiculous.
It makes us look as though we are the willing puppet of this small state called Israel in the Middle East.
That's unfortunate.
Previous presidents have always been very careful to set limits.
You know, establish these things that the diplomats like to call guardrails these days.
They did that from Eisenhower on.
All of a sudden now they're gone and we're doing the bidding of Mr. Netanyahu and his agents and backers in the United States and around the world.
It's not a good picture for the United States.
It's bad for President Trump.
At one point he actually wrote on Truth Social.
Now this was Tuesday night.
This was about two or three hours after the announcement, an abbreviated version of which we all just viewed, and before the backlash.
Quote, Israel will turn over Gaza to the United States.
Now, I don't know if he actually personally writes these things that come out under his name in the middle of the night under Truth Social.
Let's assume he does.
How could he possibly be so ignorant as to think that Israel could turn over Gaza to the United States?
Israel has failed miserably in its efforts in Gaza to rid it of Hamas, to return the hostages and whatever else, to mow the lawn, whatever language Netanyahu and his buddies like to use.
Well, remember when Begin and Sadat negotiated the end of the 73 war, Begin tried to turn Gaza over to Egypt.
And Sadat said, absolutely not.
They're not part of Egypt.
They are not Egyptians.
And he wanted desperately to offload his quote-unquote Gaza problem onto Egypt.
Now, the Egyptians have cooperated to limit the violence and the capabilities of Hamas and others.
Because they have a mutual interest, or at least had, in suppressing Islamism.
But what the Israelis have done now is so horrific that I doubt he's going to get any form of cooperation in the future whatsoever out of Egypt.
But in the meantime, for us to step in and say, we'll now pick up Gaza as the 51st state and we'll protect it, put American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines...
I think the good news is he's figured it out.
The bad news is that these impulsive statements are dangerous.
And the same thing is going on with the Russians.
You know, he's got major, major issues in the United States to deal with.
He's talked about those.
He was voted into office on that basis.
He knows the border is a disaster.
He's talked about it.
That's where he should focus.
He needs to disengage from these places overseas.
What happens in these places is just not important to us.
His Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who was in Latin America, I don't know why, was not involved personally in the day-long meeting between Prime Minister Netanyahu and his retinue and President Trump and his advisors.
Nevertheless, made a statement, and I'd like your comments on it.
This statement obviously was made before the president got the pushback about which you have just so eloquently spoken.
Chris, cut number seven.
What President Trump said yesterday is an acknowledgement of the following.
Gaza has been severely damaged.
If you look at the aerial imagery, you see what's happening.
The billions of dollars that are going to be required for reconstruction are enormous.
Some areas have been rendered unlivable.
Now and for the foreseeable future.
And so what President Trump announced yesterday is the offer, the willingness of the United States to become responsible for the reconstruction of that area.
And while you are rebuilding, while you're clearing debris, by the way, there are unexploded munitions.
There are all kinds of Hamas weaponry still buried underground.
For people to be able to live in a place safely, all of that has to be removed.
It's an enormous undertaking.
It's a unique offer, one that no other country in the world has stepped up and made an offer.
I think they let him out to dry.
So the same government that financed the destruction of this is now going to finance the reconstruction of it.
And somehow move 2 million people against their will off this property.
Just doesn't make any sense.
Well, you just stated the main point that has yet to be acknowledged by either President Trump or Secretary Rubio.
It's callous disregard for the lives of human beings.
However much you want to support Israel, you know, we as Americans are not interested in the destruction of human life in Gaza.
That's not something that we all agreed to do.
It's something that should be judged as reprehensible.
The idea that we will take this over and rebuild everything sounds wonderful until you get to the question of what happens to the population that lives there.
And the underlying truth is that President Trump and Netanyahu are both agreed that these people will be forcibly removed.
To where?
Under what circumstances?
Hopefully now that you've gotten this I like Israel.
I supported the state and support helping Israel defend itself.
But I didn't sign on for this project that is now involving expulsion and murder.
Hundreds of thousands, million people.
It's incomprehensible.
It's un-American.
But there's no sense of that right now.
And I think he must be operating in an echo chamber.
Somebody has got to step inside and tell him, look, this is not what we are about.
This is not what we as Americans support.
Why are we doing this?
Could you envision...
Now I want to prevail upon your...
Could you envision American troops on the ground attempting to do what the IDF failed to do, remove these people, two million of them against their will, confronting innocent civilians with arms and confronting Hamas with deadly force?
Judge, this is once again another form of occupation.
Genghis Khan, perhaps the greatest of generals, Said occupations turned soldiers into jailers.
Mongols never occupied anything.
They would put a new group into power once they'd conquered an area, and they would tell them, you collect the tribute, you pay the taxes, we'll provide the security.
And it would be a small contingent there to back up the local government.
But they did not occupy anything anywhere.
They did not set out to change societies, to change culture, to change religion.
We've been in this business now for almost 30 years off and on.
It's failed miserably everywhere.
This would be, you know, a road to certain ruin for us.
And very shortly, Americans would look around and they would say, what are we doing here?
You know, this is what I try to tell people so often.
Soldiers, Marines, they're not stupid people.
They arrive at a place like this in Gaza.
They look around and they say, what the hell are we doing here?
We're not going to be able to change anything here.
These people don't want us.
They're going to shoot at us eventually, regardless of what happens.
And they all understood that.
But the generals and the politicians insisted, oh no, we're bringing them this and that, liberal democracy or whatever other benefits there are.
The people in Gaza are not interested in living in luxury condos overlooking the ocean.
I'm sure if you built them for them, they would probably consider it seriously.
Right now, they just want...
To go home and look at the photographs, the masses of human beings marching north, back into areas where they used to live, where there is, as Secretary Rubio pointed out, nothing for them.
But it's their land.
Marching with joy.
Marching with joy and energy in their steps in massive numbers.
It was a deeply moving event to watch.
You talked about Carolyn Leavitt, the Press Secretary trying to walk this back.
Now, the press is all over her in this.
But here she is on Wednesday, yesterday, February 5th, the day after President Trump made his announcement.
Chris, cut number one.
Basically his entire public career criticizing foreign entanglements, nation building, sending American troops to fight abroad, particularly in the Middle East.
This plan seems like it could ultimately involve all of those things.
Can you explain this reversal and how building and owning Gaza squares with America First foreign policy?
I would reject the premise of your question that this forces the United States to be entangled in conflicts abroad.
The president has not committed to putting boots on the ground in Gaza.
It's been made very clear to the president that the United States needs to be involved in this rebuilding effort to ensure stability in the region for all people.
He did not rule out America.
I am saying that the president has not committed to that just yet.
Secretary of Defense Hegseth, actually, before we even comment on her, I'd like your thoughts on this.
Chris, cut number five.
You have a long memory.
We have a long memory.
And may our relationship.
We're going to continue to endure.
We're going to continue to grow our defense industrial base.
We've supplied munitions that were previously not supplied that are useful in eradicating radical enemies, and we are committed to continuing to do so.
So I hope you've noticed here at the Defense Department under President Trump, we are laser focused on reviving the warrior ethos, on rebuilding America's military, and re-establishing deterrence.
Just something you, Prime Minister, have done in your neighborhood in impressive, aggressive, and important ways.
What General Brown was thinking while the Secretary of State was kissing up to Prime Minister Netanyahu?
Well, it looks like he recognizes who the real boss in charge is, and that's obviously Netanyahu.
We're good to go.
We're good to go.
But he's still the President of the United States.
Hegseth is probably on the ragged edge of getting himself into very serious trouble.
He needs to look at the limitations of our assets and our resources.
You know, a friend of mine in the Navy who is an expert in missiles and travels all over, he's just recently returned from the Pacific, told me, he said, you know, if a war lasts longer than two weeks, We run out of all conventional munitions.
At that point, we have to go nuclear.
Well, that's absurd.
We don't ever want to go nuclear.
We are in a very serious condition right now, and our armed forces do not need to be rebuilt.
We need to build new armed forces.
The world has changed.
Warfare has changed.
This business of rebuilding the old plant all over again is the wrong way to go.
The intelligent thing for the president to do right now is to say we've got to disengage and retrench.
We're going to run out of money.
We're on the verge of a fiscal crisis, something we've never seen, certainly not since the Depression.
I don't know how we come out of it.
But the bottom line is we don't have the resources, we don't have the forces to do this in perpetuity.
And that's effectively what we're signed up to do.
And then someone in the back of the room will say, well, what about...
Country X or country Y. What about the border?
You know, how many thousands of troops is it going to take us to really secure the border?
And when we do, and we cut off the drug cartels from their enormous profits, from human trafficking as well as drug trafficking, we're going to have a war on our hands.
I think we have a war there now.
Why are we not focusing on those things?
And he knows that.
I know President Trump.
And I know he's concerned with those things.
So this has all got to go away.
He's got to stand up and say, look, I love Israel.
I love the people.
I want to help them in any way I can.
But I cannot join their war in perpetuity.
I cannot make their enemies America's enemies.
This is not a relationship that we should want to have.
All small states always have an interest in dragging a large power.
What you have just suggested is the total opposite of what he articulated this week.
Largely responsible for his election.
Colonel, I thank you very much for your time.
Colonel, are you up to anything new these days?
Yeah, we're getting ready here to launch a brand new program live streamed over the internet.
It's just called McGregor.
And I'm going to go on there with varieties of guests in different locations around the country because we have members all over the country.
We want to get out there and talk to them and get them into the audience.
And we want to address more than what we've talked about today.
We want to address issues of critical importance to Americans today, where they live, in their homes, in their towns, in their cities.
And I think we're going to have a lot of fun, and I think a lot of Americans are going to enjoy it, because while we will undoubtedly have some celebrity figures who will be part of this, this is a show about Americans and about the United States.
What's really important?
Where are the crises that need attention now?
That's kind of where we're headed.
So look for it sort of mid-March.
It'll just be called McGregor, but there'll be a lot of other interesting people on there.
So if you find me boring and dull, don't get excited.
We'll have other people on as well.
We've never found you boring and dull.
In fact, the several times that you have interrogated me, I have loved it.
So if I may...
If your entourage comes to Northwest New Jersey or New York City and you need a fill-in, who has a little bit of experience in front of the camera, don't hesitate to call me.
Well, I would expect you with your connections to ensure that we're secure in that part of the world.
Especially with all the people that have vowels on the ends of their names, you know?
There are a lot.
Colonel McGregor, thank you very much for your time.
Deeply appreciate it.
Best of luck on this project.
Look forward to seeing you next week, sir.
Great, Judge.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
A great human being.
Two more great human beings coming up before this day is over at 2 o'clock.
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson.
And at 4 o'clock, maybe a little sooner, but right now scheduled at 4, midnight in Moscow, Pepe Escobar.
Judge Napolitano for judging freedom.
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