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Jan. 21, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
25:33
Pepe Escobar : Does Trump Want Peace or Triumph?
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Hi, everyone.
Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Tuesday, January 21st, 2025.
Pepe Escobar will be here with us in just a moment.
What does President Trump want?
Is it peace or is it triumph?
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Pepe Escobar, my dear friend, welcome here, as always.
My pleasure.
You have reminded us in a recent piece that you wrote, the truism that in geopolitics timing is everything.
Was it a coincidence then that the Russian-Iranian defense pact was signed on the eve of the inauguration of Donald Trump?
A fantastic coincidence because they had time to pick that day, Judge, and they picked it three days before.
On a Friday, they knew that the inauguration would be the 20th.
So that's what makes it extraordinary.
Because this is two of the top BRICs.
Let's say there are top four BRICs.
Russia, China, India and Iran.
Two of them, they strike a comprehensive strategic partnership that had been discussed for over two years in every sphere, including military.
So this is about Eurasia integration, about BRICS integration, and about integration of the global majority and global south at the highest level.
And intervening three days before the start of the new manifest destiny era, or the new golden years, well, I think most of the global majority and the global south, they did get the message.
Well, what is the message?
What is the message to them?
What is the message to Trump?
The message to the global majority and also to the global north and also to the new administration is that two of the big powers that are trying to configure the new multipolar or According to Ambassador Ches Freeman,
the best definition, multinodal world, they are linked for the first time in their modern history by deep, deep, deep relationship and at the highest level.
And they are a collaboration on all fronts, energy, investments, culture, and also military as well.
And coming from two top BRICS, this is especially significant because the number one multilateral organization across the planet that is conforming and coordinating the building of this new system of international relations is BRICS.
And BRICS Plus.
BRICS Plus the partners.
And it is a full BRICS member.
And Russia last year, they had an enormous job of...
You know, positioning bricks for the next level, which is what happened during the summit in Kazan in October.
So it's not an alliance against the West or an alliance against the US.
But the message to the West and to the collective West is, look, these are two top powers of the emerging new system of international relations, so you have to pay attention to us.
What does it say about...
Security and defense.
Very, very important.
It's not a formal military alliance.
It's not an alliance pact.
But it says that an attack on one of them, the other signature of the deal, will help.
And they will never help the aggressor.
Let's assume Iran is attacked by Israel or by an Israel-US coalition, for instance.
It's not that Russia is going to step into the fray immediately, but there will be all sorts of support for Iran, just like China, without even signing.
China has a strategic partnership with Iran as well, and it's also military, not as sophisticated as the Russian-Iran on a military level.
But this means, look, we got your back.
What will happen if Israel attacks Iran vis-a-vis Russia and China?
What will they do?
Nobody knows, Judge, really.
This is extremely serious.
This is analyzed in detail in Tehran, in Moscow, and in Beijing.
You know, similar scenarios that the Pentagon does, for instance.
And all the scenarios, by the way, that the Pentagon gamed on a war against Iran.
Total defeat.
They know that this would be an extreme measure by Israel if Israel managed to drag the U.S. into it.
This is essentially how the Iranians examined the whole situation.
And they think that the probability is very, very low.
And they know that now, especially now with an administration that professes that we don't want to generate or start new wars, now the possibility is still very, very low.
But never underestimate the power to wreak havoc by the zeal cons in the US and those Old Testament demented people in Tel Aviv.
Well, the Old Testament demented people...
In Tel Aviv, probably still have the same iron lock on the American government under Donald Trump as they did under Joe Biden.
Trump had a Mossad asset on the dais with him yesterday in the form of Mrs. Adelson, who had a better view of things than Joe Biden did from the dais.
Absolutely. Does one really think he's going to smack BB on the hand or give BB whatever he wants?
Not give him whatever he wants, but he will evaluate BB's scenarios, which is already very complicated.
And obviously...
This Ziocon matrix in the Beltway, across the Beltway, will be putting a lot of pressure on them if push comes to shove.
The thing is the current leadership in Iran, Pezeshkin.
Pezeshkin was basically selected by Khamenei and then by the voters to try to find some sort of...
Re-approximation with the West and especially with the US.
They don't want a war with Israel and they don't want a war with the US.
So this changes the equation a lot because the Iranians are refusing to be dragged into this trap, falling into the Israeli trap of a war needs to be inevitable.
Not at all.
So that changes the equation completely.
Because it's basically Israel spinning, one day after another, spinning new reasons to start a war against Iran.
But Iran, on the other side, they are doing a Sun Tzu.
It's a Sun Tzu strategy in the end.
They are just expecting Israel to trip on their own dementia, year after year, months after month, week after week.
What are the economic implications of any of the pact between Russia and Iran, do they change any of the BRICS-generated relationship between them?
Judge, the number one implication, which is extremely important, is the International North-South Transportation Corridor, which is one of the great connectivity corridors of the 21st century.
It will be a competitor to the Suez Canal.
It may even erase the importance of the Suez Canal mid to long term.
And it happens to unite three BRICS, essentially.
With, of course, with an extension to Azerbaijan.
And this extension to Azerbaijan could link to Turkey as well.
Basically, it's a multi-modal.
You know, it's highways, Caspian Sea, trains, etc.
From northern Russia.
All the way to Astrakhan and then across the Caspian, then across Iran, and then you turn left on the map all the way to Mumbai in India.
It's a geoeconomic connectivity corridor, extremely important, non subjected to sanctions.
And with three bricks on top, and everybody that is around, for instance, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, even Pakistan, if they man their fences with India, everybody can profit from it.
Is this the route of which you speak?
Yes, it is, in red.
And there is, in the Caspian, you can have a stop.
In Baku, for instance, in Azerbaijan.
There will be many routes in the Caspian, and another one will be crossing the Caspian from Baku to the left, to Turkmenbashi in Turkmenistan to the right, and to the ports in Kazakhstan in the northeast.
Is there a pipeline deal in the Caspian Sea?
Guess what?
The Gazprom already said, look, if you need to build a pipeline in the Caspian, we'll build it for you, to the Iranians.
Judges, it's the kind of dialogue between them that they are having at the highest level with proposals, you know, it's something that I heard in Moscow nearly two years ago when...
An Iranian delegation was there, and they were saying, look, the dialogue has been fantastic.
The Russians said, whatever you need, we'll build for you.
And Iran said, whatever you want, just ask.
It's at this level.
And it goes all the way to the top, where Putin and Khamenei, they respect each other.
This is extremely important.
So it goes to the presidents, go to the foreign affairs, ministerial defense, investment, etc.
And they are very important.
Also geoeconomic.
They are working on a secret, relatively secret, let's put it this way, platform, bypassing SWIFT for very serious sensitive transactions between Russia and Iran.
Apart from the mechanisms that they are developing inside BRICS, which are all linked to a progressive de-dollarization.
For instance, China and Russia nowadays, their trade, 95% is in yuan and rubles.
Soon the trade between Iran and Russia is going to be 95% between rials and rubles.
Same thing.
And this is happening among the top BRICs.
All over.
It's an interlocking system.
Are they going to be able to avoid the SWIFT banking system, the one controlled by the West in Brussels?
The one that stole $300 billion in Russian assets?
Exactly. That's the idea.
That's the idea, exactly.
And they can unify their payment system.
The Iranians have their own payment system.
The Russians have also their own SPFS.
So they can unite both.
And you have a completely separate from the West payment system.
And that includes, for instance, I'll give you a simple example.
You have your Mir card in Russia.
You go to the bazaar in Tehran, and you can pay with your Mir card, which is something, for instance, if you have a Visa or a Mastercard from the West, you cannot do that in Iran.
But if you have a Russian card, you can, and vice versa.
Also in tourism.
Tourism is an important aspect of the deal as well.
You're going to have many more direct flights from different cities in Russia, different cities in Iran and all that.
So, you know, it's really, and they call it comprehensive because it's cultural, tourism, investment, socioeconomic, everything.
What happens if Trump, on his own, lifts the sanctions that Biden imposed?
But do you think Congress, Judge, would ever allow it?
Well, I can't imagine Congress defying Trump.
On the other hand, the president has the authority to impose and to unimpose.
Biden did the sanctions on his own.
As far as I know, and as you've told me and others have told me, it actually made Russia stronger.
Yes. Do they want the sanctions removed?
Yes. I would think they want people to be able to fly from New York directly to Moscow instead of having to spend a day going through Istanbul.
It's the same thing with the Iranians, Judge.
This new government, which is compared to the Raisi government, it's, let's say, 30 to 40 percent more Atlanticist leaning, not in terms of embracing Atlanticism,
but let's try to find a deal with the collective West, with the Europeans.
It could be easier with the Europeans because they need Iranian energy and they could invest in the Iranian energy market, upgrading it, for instance, and with the US.
The US, of course, we know since the Islamic Revolution, it's going to be extremely hard, but...
During Kerry and Zarif, who had a very good, even personal relationship, it was possible.
And when they struck the deal in Vienna, almost 10 years ago, in 2015, there were possibilities there of a detente, let's put it this way.
And then when the Trump administration destroyed it all.
So it is possible.
But it depends on the grip of...
As you mentioned, this Zionist matrix on the Trump administration.
Let me switch gears, but going to the Zionist matrix.
Should Netanyahu be trusted by Trump?
Definitely not.
And I think you know, and all of you in Washington, in the Beltway, know that this is...
Absolutely impossible.
One of the things that Trump said yesterday about Gaza was very revealing.
He said, literally, that he's not confident about the ceasefire.
And he also said, it's not our war, it's their war.
Let me play that clip for you.
Cut number seven.
I'm not confident.
It's not our war, it's their war, but I'm not confident, but I think they're very weakened on the other side.
Gaza, boy, I looked at a picture of Gaza.
Gaza is like a massive demolition site.
That place is, it's really...
It's got to be rebuilt in a different way.
Do you plan to help rebuilding Gaza?
My mind.
You know, Gaza is interesting.
It's a phenomenal location.
On the sea, best weather.
You know, everything's good.
It's like some beautiful things could be done with it, but it's very interesting.
But some fantastic things could be done with Gaza.
How do you see the future in governance for Gaza?
Well, it depends.
I can't imagine.
You certainly can't have the people that were there.
Most of them are dead.
Well, he was kind of all over the place, although hinting perhaps the Trump Organization would like to redevelop Gaza.
But it is interesting that he said he didn't think the ceasefire would last.
Was he talking about Hamas or was he talking about the IDF?
Both. Essentially both.
And when he said most people over there are dead, that's not true.
Look at the throngs that are coming back to Gaza.
Even if there are projections that maybe not 40-something or 50,000 people were dead, 100,000 people there, but Gaza had more than 2 million, and they are coming back, and they want to rebuild it by themselves.
What he said about...
The craziest thing, in fact, is that Trump managed to rebrand a genocide into a real state opportunity.
This is completely crazy.
Only if you lead an empire, you can get away with that.
But this is what he's thinking.
Let's rebuild it in a different way, his own words.
He's already adopted the Israeli position.
We're going to level Gaza.
And we're going to rebuild it our way.
And this is very dangerous because this means that this war is never going to end.
Well, Netanyahu can't afford for the war to end.
If the war ends, he could lose his premiership, right?
If the war ends, he goes to jail, Judge.
Literally. He needs a forever war, personally.
And that's extremely dangerous because it's his interest over the interest of, let's say, a normalized, stable state of Israel.
He's not thinking about Israel.
He's thinking about himself.
And this is what the anti-Netanyahu crowds in Israel are making it very, very clear.
Here's the cynicism of his new U.S. ambassador.
Do you believe that the two-state solution is the future?
No. I think we have to recognize there was a Palestinian state.
It was called Gaza.
Look how that turned out.
You can't have a Palestinian state on top of the Israeli state if the Palestinians continue to believe that Israel shouldn't exist.
Because the Palestinians don't believe in a two-state solution.
They believe in a one-state solution and their solution and Israel disappears.
That's no solution whatsoever.
Israel has a right to its...
3,500 years?
I mean, I guess he can't count since it started in 1948, but this is part of the Protestant American or American Protestant Christian nationalism shared by people like the Speaker of the House of Representatives,
Mike Johnson.
Who believe that God the Father gave this land to Netanyahu's predecessors and they have secretly owned it all these centuries and millennia?
Well, if you study the history of Palestine and the history of Gaza, that disproves the theory completely.
Apocalipsism and victimhood complex, in fact, in the end.
Historically, no value whatsoever.
The problem is these people are, once again, now they are around the Trump 2.0 administration.
Try to have this conversation in Jordan, in Egypt, in Lebanon, in Syria, in the wider Arab world, in fact.
Even outside of the ruling classes in the Emirates, for instance.
Everybody knows what Palestine is.
And the facts are there.
This is the attitude of the incoming government.
It was the attitude of the Biden administration as well.
So is there going to be any change in the American view of the Zionist state and their fanaticism?
Probably not.
No, definitely.
And that's a problem because essentially the Arab world, the spine of the Arab world now is gone.
When you look at Jordan, Egypt.
Russian Gulf monarchies, etc.
And their attitude to the genocide in Gaza.
And it's not an accident that spokesman of Hamas, two days ago, if I'm not mistaken, he listed four countries that defended Palestine and Gaza from the beginning.
And none of these are Arab.
He mentioned the population of Lebanon.
He mentioned Hezbollah and the population of Lebanon.
Iran, of course.
Iraq. He qualified Iraq as the king of drones.
And the Yemenis, Ansarullah in Yemen.
These were the defenders of Palestine and the defenders of sovereignty of Palestine.
You won't hear any of that from...
The absolute vassals that are these Arab regimes that hold their existence to the benign American empire, in fact.
Thank you, my dear friend.
Always a pleasure.
Thank you for allowing me to take you back and forth over these various hot spots.
Much appreciated.
Thank you.
I hope we can see you again next week.
All the best.
Next week from Russia.
Yes. Good luck.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Of course.
Of course.
Coming up later today at 2 o'clock, Karen Kwiatkowski.
We originally scheduled Kivork-Almasian at noon because of a scheduling difficulty, and my party's been moved to Thursday.
We'll see you later.
Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.
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