Jan. 12, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
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| Larry Johnson, welcome here. | |
| It's always a pleasure, my dear friend. | |
| What have you learned recently in your own research about the Palestinian determination to resist the IDF genocide and remain in Gaza? | |
| It really is pretty remarkable, if you think about it, that they are confined to an area that's about 25 miles long from north to south. | |
| And five miles wide east to west, maybe 10 miles wide east to west, but it's not a big area. | |
| And they didn't have artillery. | |
| They didn't have air defense. | |
| They didn't have any kind of fixed wing or aircraft or attack helicopters to use. | |
| They certainly didn't have any armor, no tanks. | |
| And despite all of that, they've gone up against the Israeli Army, who is routinely described as the most powerful force in the Middle East. | |
| Well, if that's the most powerful force in the Middle East, what they have succeeded in doing after 14 months of war, going on 15 months now, they've killed almost 50,000 men, | |
| women, and children. | |
| Israel claims that 16,000 to 20,000 of those are Hamas fighters. | |
| I don't believe that at all. | |
| But Hamas continues fighting, and they continue resisting. | |
| And just the other day, they killed four more Israeli soldiers, and that's the problem for Israel. | |
| It doesn't have an unlimited supply of men that they can just throw into what has turned out to be a little bit of a meat grinder for Israel. | |
| Now, it's been a terrible, terrible price paid by the Palestinian people. | |
| That occupy, that are in Gaza. | |
| Upward of 80% of the structures in that area have been destroyed. | |
| Mosques destroyed. | |
| Major infrastructure destroyed. | |
| They've tried to make it an uninhabitable place for the Palestinian people, and yet they continue to fight. | |
| Now, we're getting news today. | |
| That there's been a breakthrough in negotiations on a ceasefire and a hostage release. | |
| And I thought we got sort of a hint of that last week when Donald Trump said, you know, went out and very bombastically stated that if these hostages weren't released by the 20th of January, there'd be hell to pay. | |
| Well, you know, the Palestinians have already paid the price of four hells. | |
| So, you know, one war is not going to make any difference. | |
| But that told me that actually I think there was progress on the negotiation front because Trump is positioning himself to take credit for it. | |
| And maybe he does deserve credit for it because I think we need to look at him choosing to post on Truth Social Jeffrey Sachs' excellent commentary on the despicable nature of Benjamin Netanyahu. | |
| So I don't view these things in isolation. | |
| I think we have to take it as a whole that there is some movement and that you're going to see the remaining hostages that Hamas took release in exchange for a release of 1,000 or 2,000 Palestinian hostages that Israel has taken. | |
| Why shouldn't we accept uncritically the numbers given out by the IDF? | |
| Which numbers would those be? | |
| The numbers where they said that 16,000 of the slaughtered Gazans were Hamas fighters, and you said you didn't believe the number. | |
| Yeah. They're not wearing uniforms. | |
| They're not carrying badges. | |
| And the Israelis certainly aren't going in there collecting the bodies and counting them up. | |
| So this is more reminiscent of body counts in Vietnam. | |
| Oh, man, we killed 100 of them! | |
| How do you know? | |
| Well, we just took an area and did some math computations. | |
| They have no way of knowing. | |
| In fact, what some of the reports indicate is that Hamas, yeah, they've lost fighters. | |
| There have been fighters that have been killed, but the only way you can tell that is if they've been out in the open carrying a firearm. | |
| But they're also growing in strength. | |
| Hamas did not necessarily, prior to the start of October 7th, enjoy widespread support. | |
| But the Israeli actions against the Palestinian people have solidified that support for Hamas. | |
| And there are 16, 17-year-old boys that are joining up to fight. | |
| Because they've seen their mothers, their sisters. | |
| Their fathers. | |
| Their brothers killed. | |
| Who wouldn't want revenge in the face of something like that? | |
| Is Hamas continuing to resist the IDF militarily inside Gaza? | |
| Oh, absolutely. | |
| Absolutely. I said they lured... | |
| There were reports the other day that they had wired a tunnel and the Israelis entered it and Hamas blew it up and it killed... | |
| Killed seven Israelis and wounded a number of others. | |
| So yeah, Israel's continuing to suffer casualties, which, you know, I think, I believe is one of the motivations, at least, maybe not from Netanyahu's part, but certainly from the standpoint of the Israeli Defense Force, that they need to stop the bleeding. | |
| They recognize they don't have unlimited resources. | |
| They are largely a reserve army. | |
| That means they're dependent upon reservists who work regular jobs and then will go take off from those jobs to serve in the military. | |
| That's okay for a month or two. | |
| After 14, 15 months, boy, that gets to be a drag. | |
| It puts a strain on the families. | |
| It puts a strain on the businesses. | |
| Then you get the emotional strain because what these Israeli soldiers are doing is they're murdering civilians. | |
| And while there may be a few psychopaths on the side of the Israelis, men without any kind of moral conscience at all, what we're seeing is there's actual evidence that some of these soldiers, | |
| when they are haunted by the reality that they have murdered, Unarmed children and women and unarmed civilian men. | |
| And that lingers with them. | |
| You've had an increased number of psychiatric cases as well as suicides. | |
| So, you know, any general worth their salt is going to recognize we can't continue to put our soldiers into situations where they're going to dehumanize themselves because it doesn't make for a strong army. | |
| How many Palestinians are still living in Gaza? | |
| I think close to a million. | |
| They don't have anywhere to go. | |
| That's the problem. | |
| They're being driven from point to point. | |
| Sort of tongue-in-cheek. | |
| They could write a book on survival that would rival anything out there. | |
| How to survive. | |
| How to feed your family. | |
| And this is in wintertime now. | |
| You know, we've seen some of these horrific images of children that have been frozen to death, little babies, simply because there is no heat to keep them warm. | |
| And yet they continue. | |
| They go on. | |
| Here's a comment by Steve Whitcoff. | |
| Now, Mr. Whitcoff is a real estate developer. | |
| But has been chosen by President-elect Trump to be his Middle East envoy. | |
| I guess this is to replace Amos Hochstein. | |
| Yeah. But here he is last week on Fox News, cut number three. | |
| I think they're going well, but I would also tell you that it's the president's strong stance, his certitude in asserting that all hell will break loose, that is moving people. | |
| I lost a son. | |
| I lost a child. | |
| And so these parents think about this every single night when they go to sleep. | |
| We have to get them home. | |
| It's the American hostages. | |
| It's all the hostages. | |
| And by the way, there'll be plenty of Palestinians who will be released as a result of this, and they'll go home to their families. | |
| So I think this is something that the world needs to see. | |
| We need this moment. | |
| Mr. Whitcore forgot that they won't have homes to go back to because they've been destroyed by the IDF. | |
| 2,000-pound bombs and everything else. | |
| Well, actually, a lot of the Palestinians that are going to be released have been picked up in the West Bank. | |
| And while the Israeli settlers have been destroying those homes in the West Bank, they still do have some territory. | |
| Oh, these are not necessarily Gazans. | |
| Correct, correct. | |
| Now, what's interesting is it is reported that Witkoff, even though he is in an incoming administration, is actually participating now in Qatar with... | |
| The Biden representatives in negotiating with Hamas and with Israelis. | |
| So, you know, that's pretty remarkable. | |
| All of this nonsense about, oh, there's going to be hell to pay. | |
| Judge, when I moved from CIA down to State Department and started on the 1st of November, 1989, One of the main issues we were focused on at the time were the hostages that were being held in Lebanon. | |
| We had several U.S. hostages and European hostages that were being held by a variety of groups, including Hezbollah and Amal. | |
| And good Lord, it was a priority to find them. | |
| You know, remember that was the Iran-Contra had its roots. | |
| And Reagan trying to cut a deal using Ali North to get those hostages out. | |
| And we had all intelligence assets dedicated to it. | |
| We had, you know, Delta Force standing by. | |
| There was a top secret U.S. Army unit. | |
| At the time it was known as ISA. | |
| And they had personnel on the ground in Lebanon. | |
| One of them was a friend of mine. | |
| That he was a Japanese-American. | |
| He was running around disguised as a Japanese tourist, snapping photographs, looking for these people. | |
| And we could never find him. | |
| You know, we could have blown up all of Beirut. | |
| It wouldn't have brought the hostages out. | |
| And so this Trump, well, there'll be hell to pay. | |
| I know that's their talking point. | |
| Well, I think all they're doing is positioning themselves so that when the deal is made... | |
| Trump will get to say, take a victory lap. | |
| Maybe rightly so. | |
| Right, right. | |
| You almost can't blame him, and he'll argue that he put public pressure on both sides to come to an agreement. | |
| Well, in fact, you've played Jeffrey Sachs' interview with, I think, the Cambridge Student Union. | |
| Do you think that that was just simply an isolated fact? | |
| No. That was, you know, as I mentioned earlier, this is all, you have to take it all as comprehensive approach. | |
| Why do you think the president did that five days after he said, I'm Israel's best friend? | |
| He didn't say, I'm Netanyahu's best friend. | |
| He said, I'm Israel's best friend. | |
| Send in a clear message to Netanyahu, as Jeffrey Sachs, his colorful description of Netanyahu. | |
| As a person of, let's call it, questionable parentage. | |
| So, you know, that was intended to send a message to Netanyahu. | |
| Hey, you know, Trump is not necessarily, he's not a net, they don't have a bromance going on. | |
| He remembers that Netanyahu couldn't wait to welcome Joe Biden as the successor to Donald Trump. | |
| You know, Trump's got a memory like an elephant on that stuff. | |
| Should Trump trust, should any American president trust Netanyahu? | |
| Oh, heavens no. | |
| You know, Netanyahu's wife shouldn't trust Netanyahu. | |
| I mean, he is one of the most conniving, immoral leaders that we've ever seen. | |
| He has No regard for the interests of the Israeli people and completely inhuman when it comes to dealing with Palestinians. | |
| Are Israel and Iran preparing for war with each other as we speak? | |
| Well, Iran has just completed a series of military exercises that included demonstrating air defense systems. | |
| And how their military units respond to an attack. | |
| Israel's not conducted similar exercises. | |
| They can't. | |
| They're too caught up with the daily grind of war. | |
| We'll know the next eight days are probably, or seven days, because a week from today, Donald Trump will be inaugurated. | |
| This is, I think, Israel's last chance to try to start a war with Iran. | |
| I think the very last thing Donald Trump wants is to start office with a new war in the Middle East. | |
| He's going to negotiate. | |
| He's going to talk. | |
| He's going to find a way to do this nonviolently. | |
| Because I think he knows that if he does get bogged down in war, it will destroy his presidency. | |
| And I think he's looking at a legacy to be known as the man who brought peace. | |
| And if he can generally bring about a reconciliation and peace between Israel and Iran, good Lord, that would be a miracle. | |
| Yeah, it sure would. | |
| Does Iran have a nuclear weapon? | |
| I think they've got the capacity to build one. | |
| I don't know if they have now made that final decision to cross that Rubicon. | |
| I would not surprise me if they did that in the wake of some of the recent, you know, Israel's attacks into Syria and the fall of Saddam, I mean of Bashar al-Assad. | |
| And at that point, Iran recognizes, you know what? | |
| Countries that don't have a nuke get invaded. | |
| Countries that don't have a nuke get toppled. | |
| Maybe we need to have a nuke to buy some insurance. | |
| That kind of thinking wouldn't surprise me. | |
| But they have also had, previous to this, the religious fatwa prescribing it, prohibiting it. | |
| They saw that as, if you will, an affront to Islam. | |
| And they took the religion seriously. | |
| Yeah. And why is it that the U.S. and its allies Except Israel's nuclear weapon, the technology for which was stolen from the United States, the authorizations for which were never sought and thus never granted, | |
| but not Iran's. | |
| Yeah, well, that fact's been on the table for 65 years. | |
| It's like that movie Fight Club. | |
| The first rule of Fight Club, don't talk about Fight Club. | |
| The first rule of Israeli nuclear force, don't talk about Israeli nuclear force. | |
| Don't admit it. | |
| But all can see that it's there. | |
| So it's there as a capability that could be used as a form of suicide. | |
| Because there is no real way that Israel could use that tactically or strategically that would enhance and secure Israel's safety. | |
| It would, in fact, have just the opposite effect. | |
| And it would bring other countries involved. | |
| So today is the 13th. | |
| We're four days away from Russia and Iran signing a new comprehensive security agreement that will encompass economic, political, as well as military dimensions. | |
| Then you have Russia and China. | |
| We'll be conducting joint naval military exercises in, I think, the next three months, in three months, with Iran. | |
| So Iran's not isolated, even though, you know, the West likes to pretend, oh, yeah, we're isolating them, we're hitting them hard with sanctions. | |
| But Iran is starting to dig itself out of that. | |
| And its current leader, Pazeshkin, the president, has been... | |
| They're talking behind the scenes. | |
| And I'm sure there have been some approaches made to Trump about negotiations. | |
| I think Trump, given the opportunity, will negotiate with Iran as opposed to go to war with Iran. | |
| And that's put Netanyahu off course. | |
| But I think that's one of the reasons Trump sent that message via Jeffrey Sachs. | |
| Yeah. Sachs was the message bearer to Netanyahu. | |
| This is what I really think of you. | |
| In fact, you could make the case that Trump recognizes that if Netanyahu and his crazies on the religious right are allowed to pursue the course of action that they're pursuing, it will culminate in the destruction of Israel. | |
| And Trump actually, yeah, I think Trump genuinely loves the Israelis. | |
| But he recognizes, I think, as well, that what they're doing now is self-destructive, and it will cause Israel to die, not live. | |
| Is Israel overextended? | |
| I mean, right now, Larry, they're claiming 40% of what a month ago was Syria as part of Israel. | |
| Oh, absolutely. | |
| Look, and this is the other thing people have misjudged is that... | |
| You know, initially with the fall of Bashar al-Assad, everybody's going, ah, great victory for Israel, great victory for Turkey, oh, big loss for Russia, big loss for Iran. | |
| Nonsense. You know, one of the things Israel had in place with Bashar al-Assad, and they had penetrated Assad's intelligence and military leadership. | |
| They had Israeli agents at the top. | |
| What Iran was doing with the government of Syria. | |
| And Iran was not dealing covertly with Syria. | |
| It was an open diplomatic and military and intelligence exchange. | |
| So in a way, Israel had great insight. | |
| They had good vision. | |
| They could understand what was going on. | |
| Once that was eliminated, all of a sudden, there's no formal government for Iran to deal with. | |
| Iran's going to continue supporting Hezbollah. | |
| Well, guess what? | |
| There are smuggling routes throughout Syria and Iraq and Jordan that have existed for centuries. | |
| These tribes that are out there. | |
| And there are criminal organizations. | |
| Iran uses them. | |
| So now all of a sudden Israel is blinded. | |
| It has, I would argue, less intelligence about what's going on on the ground instead of more. | |
| And on top of it, it does not have an unlimited military force. | |
| It's still suffering casualties, as we talked about in Gaza. | |
| It's suffering casualties in the West Bank. | |
| And it suffered casualties in Beirut. | |
| I think that's one of the other motivations right now that you, at least from the IDF standpoint, that they're pressing for a ceasefire. | |
| Larry, a pleasure, my dear friend. | |
| Thank you very much, as always. | |
| And thank you for the double duty. | |
| Look forward to seeing you at the end of the day, at the end of the week, with Ray McGovern. | |
| All right, my friend. | |
| Thank you. | |
| Thank you. | |
| All the best. | |
| Coming up at the remainder of today at 1 o'clock, be always worth waiting for, Scott Ritter. | |
| And at 3 o'clock, Matthew Ho, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. |
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