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Nov. 24, 2024 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
27:31
Ray McGovern : Taking Russia Seriously.
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Monday, November 25th, 2024.
Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment on We Better Take Russia Seriously.
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Ray McGovern, welcome here, my dear friend.
Always a pleasure.
How significant geopolitically...
Judge, we've talked about possible game changers with various missiles and tanks and F-16s and so forth.
None of those happen to be game changers.
This one is.
What the Russians have done is to show us.
Without any nuclear weapon on top of these missiles, they can destroy very, very hardened sites with very new technology that it seems US specialists were blissfully unaware of.
In other words, they've stolen a march with very high technology.
Which can destroy hard targets with new technology that is more advanced than the old MERV system, which was, as you'll recall, multiple independent targetable reentry vehicles that were attached to ICBMs.
These are similar, but they're independent and they're going so fast.
They don't even have any TNT on them.
They just demolish what they had.
And the reports out of the Dnipro indicate that that thing was totally demolished.
Did CIA or did the intelligence community in general know that the Russians had this piece of equipment?
I can't be sure, of course, Judge, but given the shock...
Russia didn't start building this thing until about a year ago.
It was sort of put together with lots of parts from ICBMs and MRBMs and so forth with new technology.
The deal here, Judge, is that Putin tried to warn the US.
He tried to say, look, you're going to build these ABM systems.
That's fine.
They don't work.
We're not going to waste our money.
What we're going to do is build alternative systems that you won't even dream of.
Now, he said that to a bunch of Western journalists in June of 2016.
A year later, two years later, on March 1st, 2018, he did a show and tell for his State of the Nation address.
Big screens showing these new weapons that had been developed since the U.S. turned Russia down on any agreement to restrain them.
Now, no one should be surprised that these have come to fruition now.
And the most devastating one is this missile that was used against Nipro and destroyed this whole facility, which ironically, not so ironically, I suppose, was devoted to making missiles, okay?
So the Russians can strike.
It will.
And the big deal, of course, is there is no anti-aircraft, anti-missile.
There is no defense against these things, so much so that in a stroke of a little bit of hubris, Putin said, look, you know, we're going to let you know.
We're going to let you know before we fire the next one so you can get your civilians out of the way.
And we don't care if you have advance notice.
Hell, there's nothing you can do anyway.
We'll get your civilians out of the way, and we'll let you know that this is what's coming if you don't knock it off.
Here's a portion of what President Putin said in 2016, which you just referenced, which you sent us, Ray.
Chris, cut number six.
So here we are today, and they've placed their missile defense system in Romania, always saying we must protect ourselves from the Iranian nuclear threat.
Where's the threat?
There is no Iranian nuclear threat.
You even have an agreement with them.
And the US was the instigator of this agreement, where we helped.
So the Iranian threat does not exist.
But missile defense systems continue to be positioned.
That means we were right when we said that they are lying to us.
That means we were right when we said that they are lying to us.
Now, that's 2016.
That is before Trump scrapped...
The agreement he refers to with Iran and before Trump scrapped the INF, a decision I think Trump's people probably regret in light of the firing of this hypersonic missile the other day.
Your thoughts?
Well, Trump's people might regret it, but the military-industrial complex is rubbing their hands with glee.
Now they have to catch up, Judge.
Now they have to match the Russians.
Problem is, they're about 10 years behind on such technology.
What's interesting about that little interview, Putin was talking to correspondents from the West who were in St. Petersburg for an economic summit, okay?
Gathered them together, and the first thing he said to them was, "No, look, I don't expect you to report this.
I don't even expect you to tell your editors or your publisher about this session.
I got to tell you anyway, man to man." And then he goes into this business about these sites that are being put in Romania and Poland.
And Romania was the first.
And he said, "Look, we can't tell what's in those capsules because capsules have caps on them, right?
They could be...
They could be cruise missiles.
Don't try to make us believe they're ABM missiles against Iran because you just signed an agreement where Iran's out of the picture there.
That was then, okay?
So as you correctly point out, instead of sort of saying, okay, let's talk about this, what happened with Trump?
And Putin makes a point of saying Trump did this.
Trump decided to leave.
The one treaty that destroyed a whole class of medium and intermediate range missiles, namely the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty, signed or begun in 1987 when Gorbachev persuaded Reagan this to be a good idea and we told Reagan that we could verify it, right?
And then Trump got out of it 32 years later before he went out into the western sunset.
Actually, he didn't, did he?
Before he left office in 2019.
So these bedrock stability instruments that were cautiously and thoroughly negotiated were thrown into the trash can.
When I say two, of course, I refer to the first one that Junior Bush got out of.
That was the one I was involved in personally, the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
Which, before Bush left it, was the linchpin for security.
A mutual security for 30 years.
So 30 years for the ABM Treaty, 32 years for the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty, and that's where we're left.
Last little thing here, he talked about Romania.
That was the first base.
Now it's Poland.
Poland just advertised, oh, they have a base too, with these same capsules, with the caps on them.
And the Russians have made it clear that would be our first likely target.
If they decide to hit such bases, U.S. bases in places like Poland.
Here's President Putin on Friday, Ray, talking about this very new weapon system, the Oreshnik.
It's about two minutes long, but in translation, of course, but very, very much worth listening to.
Chris, cut number one.
The Oreshnik missile system isn't simply an efficient hypersonic weapon system.
Thanks to its power, particularly in the case of its massive use, in combination with other precision long-range weapons that Russia has, the results of its use against enemy targets would be comparable in effect, and its power to strategic weapons.
Although, in fact, the Oreshnik system is not a strategic weapon.
In any case, it is not an intercontinental ballistic missile.
No one in the world has such weapons yet, as we know, as you know.
Sooner or later other leading countries will also get them.
We are aware that they are already under development.
But this will not happen tomorrow, or in a year, or even two years, while we have this system now.
I will add that there are no means of counteracting such a missile.
No means of intercepting it.
In the world today, they don't exist.
And I will emphasize once again, we will continue testing the latest system.
Considering the special strength of this weapon, its power, it will be put into service in the strategic missile forces.
In addition to the Oreshnik system, Several similar systems are currently being developed in Russia for further testing.
Based on the results of the testing, this weapon will also go into serial production.
That is, we are developing a whole line of medium and shorter range systems.
The new missile could be fitted with nuclear and conventional warheads.
It can reach targets across the entirety of Europe.
Again, all of this is a surprise to To MI6, CIA, Mossad, whoever they rely on, the Five Eyes, all these superintelligence agencies that capture every keystroke on every desktop and mobile device, and they didn't know about this.
Well, Judge, it's really hard for me to tell.
I suspect that some assiduous analysts, such as we used to have at the CIA, Would have been watching this very closely, would have tried to advise Blinken and Sullivan and the president, to the degree he was advisable, that this was in the works, that they were working on this.
But there's no indication that that actually happened.
That may be simply a function of the intelligence community always telling the president and their uppers what they want to hear and not what they don't want to hear.
So that's possible.
The system is so corrupted that even the good analysts might not get through to these folks.
The reality is it happened now.
And so much for Russia being a glorified gas station with rockets.
So much for that.
The Russians have shown that their masters at this kind of technology, the alloys and all the other special And I have Ted Postol and Scott Ritter and others telling me that, look, you know, this is a game changer.
And the next move, of course, is, well, will the French shoot their scalps into Kursk?
Will there be more storm shadows or attack them?
I imagine there probably will.
Will Putin overreact?
I don't think so, unless you consider this hit on Dnepro overreaction.
It's a very targeted reaction.
And Scott has told me and others that the U.S. was given forewarning that there was not a nuclear weapon on this thing.
And they were told, look, we're going to do this and you're going to know about it now.
We're not going to put a nuclear weapon on this.
Now, my concern, of course, is that if the tables were reversed, well, Russia has already said that any nuclear-capable instrument, like an F-16, they're going to shoot it down right away because they have to assume that it's nuclear-armed.
So, you know, we have a Pentagon now or a SAC out there in Omaha that says, "Oh, the Russians told us this and this, and I got a nuclear on it." So, relax, guys.
You know, Russia, trust the Russians.
I don't think so.
So the volatility of this thing, especially with that admiral out there in Omaha saying, you know, we can fight and win a nuclear war.
My God, people are in tenterhooks.
And that includes the Russians and the military advisors that are looking over Putin's shoulder and say, look, you know, this is serious.
They didn't know that we have this.
What are they going to do to react, particularly within the next two months when Biden,
Is there any question in your mind that the use of this hypersonic No
question, but that is correct.
Now, was it planned?
Of course, you know, they had it on a drawing board, and even Putin said, this was a new missile.
This was a test, okay?
Oh, the test was successful, says Putin.
And we have lots of other missiles just like this, and we're going into serial production.
So, yeah, it was a reaction to this, giving the British and ourselves and the French now more latitude in striking targets deeper into Russia proper.
But, you know, those are pinpricks, Judge.
Most of the Russian assets have been moved far farther away than 190 miles, which is the range of the Atakums.
They don't have so many Atakums.
There are limited numbers of storm shadows.
I don't know what they're thinking.
They're going to shoot them all off and then they'll have nothing?
Bottom line, of course, is there's no defense against these things.
If the U.S. or Britain or France decide to play this game some more, and if they cause some real damage, let's say in Kursk, they can expect another one of these missiles to be fired, probably initially at strategic elements in Ukraine,
but that does not rule out their use against this U.S. base in Poland, or even Romania, or the airfields in Romania and Poland from which The F-16s would have to fly.
I don't know this fellow, or even of him, whose clip we're going to run in just a minute, a retired colonel named Joseph Bussino, but he is the former CENTCOM spokesman, was on Fox News over the weekend, and was critical of the use of the Atacums and Storm Shadows.
Watch this, Ray.
Chris, cut number seven.
I think.
Providing the ATACMs to Ukraine, allowing Ukraine to fire ATACMs into Russia was not necessary.
They've got a few dozen ATACMs.
It's really not enough to strengthen their foothold in Kursk.
It's really not enough to change the momentum on the battlefield.
And I think it's a little bit confusing what's happening here, and I think it makes all this a little bit less stable than it was.
It's all this a little less stable than it was.
Is the deep state trying to start World War III and dumping into the lap of Donald Trump?
The deep state doesn't think that there's going to be a World War III.
They can bring us right up to the verge of World War III and scare the hell out of everyone, but they're confident the Russians are bluffing, okay?
There's no nuclear policy.
Ah, they're just bluffing.
Thank God the Russians aren't going to use a nuclear weapon first because they're winning in Ukraine, because they don't have to, okay?
My concern is that Blinken, you know, they've done everything that they said they wouldn't do up till now.
Biden has said we're not going to get involved in a nuclear war because that would be World War III.
Is he going to change his mind on that one too?
Is Blinken going to cause some kind of false flag attack with a mini-nuke or something like that so Russia would be provoked into reacting?
Well, that's a possibility.
I wouldn't put anything past these guys.
But for now, it looks like Russia has the upper hand because of this new technology.
It is new.
Everything that Putin said about it is confirmed by Ted Postol from what he's seen in the evidence, like real evidence, like not only photography, but the evidence.
And Scott says the same thing.
So there's a new reality here.
It is a game changer.
The question is whether the U.S., with a Blinken and Sullivan, will recognize it to be that and say, well, nothing picture, nothing gain.
Let's stamp this thing down.
One of our viewers writes in, Colonel Bussino.
No wonder he didn't retire as a general.
He's speaking the truth.
He's being critical of the government, which, of course, as you know, from having been in the intelligence community, does not get you promoted.
Who's in charge of American foreign policy and military policy right now?
Is it Joseph R. Biden, Jr.?
I don't think so.
I think Lincoln is running things.
We have pretty good evidence that even Lloyd Austin, the defense secretary, was cut out of this decision to authorize longer strikes into Russia.
When his spokeswoman got up in the Pentagon and was asked precisely this question, she said, I can't answer that.
I'll refer you to the press reports over the weekend.
That's all I have to say about that.
That happened twice.
So did they cut the Defense Department out of this?
Could the White House have ordered...
Yeah, he could, and that's probably what happened.
Now, the saving grace here is that there is a communication line.
Austin has that with Bielo Usof, whom you saw in that video, the white hair.
He's a serious guy.
They've used that communication channel.
I think he spoke at the very end of the clip after President Putin finished.
Well, he's a serious guy, and he's right close to Putin.
So I imagine, and I think there's more than just a hope, it's been used in the past.
This channel, this back channel, if you will, is in play.
And so Austin can talk to Biela Usof, and Biela Usof can warn.
Austin, look, if you don't rein in those neophytes, Blinken and Nod and Sullivan and the rest of them, this could be really trouble.
And I'm sure he's doing that, whether Austin will be able to come to the fore as he did two months ago when he prevented, that is, the Defense Department, prevented Biden from doing precisely the same thing, that is, authorizing longer-range strikes into Russia.
That happened on Friday the 13th.
Bad luck for the neocons.
Friday the 13th of September.
Two months ago, that's what Biden decided to do.
Now, what kind of shape is Biden in?
Is he compass mentors?
I don't know.
What worries me is that Putin doesn't know either, nor do his generals and his admirals are looking over his shoulder.
This is a very, very delicate situation.
Than any I've seen, and I've been around for a long time.
Well, if your sources and your conclusions from your sources, and some of them are public, are correct, this is really malfeasance in office not to have consulted the Defense Department before unleashing something like this and failing to take into account the natural and probable consequences of it, which turns out to be a hypersonic missile that nobody can shoot down.
Well, they know about the hypersonic missiles of that kind.
They didn't know about this particular one.
But Blinken is totally reckless.
He doesn't realize how close we are to oblivion.
And I think that he is just speaking for the president.
So here he is down in South America, for God's sake.
And he gets in touch with Jacob Sullivan.
He says, look, Jake.
We've got to go ahead.
You tell the commander of you, sir.
It's okay.
We're authorizing the use of long-range missiles.
Attack them and storm shadows and scalps.
Just tell them, okay?
Now, that's probably the way it went down.
Once the generals in Europe get word from the White House, Jake Sullivan, they do what they're told.
The White House is the commander-in-chief.
They realize that it might not be Biden, but they follow orders, right?
So that's the way this thing went down.
I truly believe that Austin was cut out because he came to the wrong conclusion last time in September, and he prevailed on Biden.
So the Russians are looking on all this, Judge.
That's what worries me.
You put yourself in Putin's shoes.
He's got to be on tenterhooks now.
And there is reliable evidence that Russian nuclear forces have been put onto a high alert.
I don't know about our forces, but probably they also are on higher alert.
Is there egg on the face, so to speak, of senior intel officials for failing to have warned Blinken, Sullivan, and nominally Biden of the existence and probable use of this weapon?
Judge, the situation is such now.
No, there's no such thing.
These people tell Bill Burns, for example, head of the CIA, or Averill Haynes, the National Director of Intelligence, they tell them maybe what they want to hear.
If they tell them the real thing, it doesn't prevent Bill Burns from telling the president in July.
Of last year, Russia had already lost in Ukraine.
Their armed forces have been exposed and completely feckless for the whole world to see.
That was July.
First week of July last year.
So I don't know what goes on here, but Bill Burns has turned out to be a cog in the wheel.
He'd been a propagandist rather than a director of intelligence.
And Avril Haines, of course, is the one that said Russia is running out of ammunition almost two years ago.
Running out of ammunition and having no indigenous capability to produce that ammunition that they're losing on the battlefield.
That's what she said, okay?
December of 2002.
So this is the kind of clowns that are in charge there.
And whether Blinken even thinks he has to listen to them is another question.
He doesn't, okay?
And he can do these things, and he's a very, very dangerous person to have in that place.
And Lavrov knows that better than anybody else's counterpart, the Russian foreign minister.
And that's why there's some saving grace in this link between Austin, our Secretary of Defense, and the Defense Minister, Mbela Usof, in Moscow.
Ray McGovern, thank you very much, my friend.
I'll see you at the end of the week for our Intelligence Community Roundtable with the youngster Larry Johnson.
All the best.
Let's hope we make it to the end of the week, Judge.
Yes, yes.
And early Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
And the aforementioned Larry Johnson will be with us at 11 o 'clock this morning.
At 3 this afternoon, Pepe Escobar.
At 4 this afternoon, Scott Ritter.
At 5 this afternoon, Professor Jeffrey Sachs.
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