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Oct. 24, 2024 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
27:58
Dennis Kucinich : Why Governments Kill
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Hi, everyone.
Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Wednesday, October 23rd, 2023.
Our guest is my longtime friend, the once and future Congressman Dennis Kucinich.
Congressman Kucinich, it's a pleasure.
Welcome here.
Welcome to the show.
It's great to join you, Judge, and I look forward to our discussion.
Thank you.
We've done this so many times.
Particularly at my former employer, Fox News.
Before we get into the substance of war and the Constitution and why governments kill, let me ask you about your race.
You are running as an independent against the Republican Party candidate and the Democratic Party candidate, one of whom is the incumbent.
How do you fare in this race?
If you win this, you'll be very unique.
Well, that's correct.
I could very well be the only independent in a House that split down the middle, 217 Republicans, 217 Democrats, and one independent, myself.
And I would certainly use that pivotal vote to not only help the people of the 7th District, but to be able to help guide American policy away from these endless wars and increasing deficits and abridgment of our civil liberties.
I see you sitting in front of a photo of the Jefferson Memorial.
Why did you choose Jefferson?
Well, because Jefferson had a unique understanding of the importance of the structure of government, of human freedom, of creating a document that would stand the test of time, that understood the deeper meaning of freedom and independence.
And he also understood That institutions have to evolve with the mind of man, and that the failure to do so means institutions will collapse.
And so he was a visionary, somebody I admired greatly.
And I, you know, I'm communicating that through just being in the foreground of his honored presence.
Well, nice to hear.
I suspect you knew that.
Before, again, I want to talk a little bit about politics.
I have argued on this show and elsewhere, even though I generally don't do politics, but we're obviously within two weeks of a presidential election, that the choices are on the important issues, Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
They both favor undeclared wars.
They both favor massive debt.
They both favor mass warrantless surveillance.
Have you chosen, and they have various other issues, Trump wants to amend the First Amendment to allow Congress to criminalize flag burning.
He wants to amend the Fifth Amendment to allow the police to administer punishment at the scene of a crime.
Vice President Harris wants abortion up to the moment of birth.
So obviously there are issues with both of them.
Do you agree with me there, Tweedledee and Tweedledum, or have you endorsed one of the two of them?
And if so, who?
I have not made an endorsement, and I do agree with you.
And I don't think you're the only one who feels that way.
As I move across the 7th District and meet with people beyond, there's a But those are the choices.
And, you know, there's also another third-party candidate, Jill Stein.
But based on the way the system's set up, the next president of the United States is either going to be Kamala Harris or a return by Donald Trump.
And, you know, many Americans struggle with that, but they're going to make a choice.
And what I've said as an independent is I'm prepared to work with whoever the people choose.
I will make it a point to find a path towards assisting the next administration in taking a direction that is aimed at helping them.
Maneuver through the structure of the House of Representatives, but also refine their policies so that they can take a direction that improves the delivery of service to the people of the United States.
Congressman, does Israel have nuclear weapons?
And if it does, whether acknowledged or not, Isn't it therefore a violation of numerous federal statutes for the United States to be supplying Israel with any kind of harmaments?
I don't have personal information, but I would guess the answer to your questions are yes and yes.
From all indications, Israel does have nuclear weapons, and based on existing laws, that would not be permitted.
However, we're at a point in this country where it appears that international law doesn't mean anything.
That we're looking at a moment where all international laws, the entire structure that's been worked on for so many years, have been thrown out the window and blown up.
We're in a brave new world.
Are we also not in a world where we shoot first and engage in diplomacy second?
I mean, we have a Secretary of State whom Professor John Mearsheimer refers to as Benjamin Netanyahu's lawyer.
We have a Secretary of State who acknowledges he has not spoken to his Russian counterpart in more than a year.
Ambassador Charles Freeman, whom you and I both know, has said this is arguably the least competent State Department since World War II.
Are you surprised at any of this?
Well, it's not acceptable, but let's make this point.
And that is, should I be elected to Congress?
One of the first things I will do is to introduce articles of impeachment against Congress.
He has militarized the State Department's policy.
And as a result, we have a State Department that doesn't work on diplomacy.
Their idea of diplomacy is putting a gun on the table.
That's not the appropriate use of the U.S. State Department.
And so I'm intending to challenge their entire sweep of policy.
In a single act, with an act of impeachment.
Now, people will say, well, you know, it's a possibility he might be leaving office starting in the third week of January.
But impeachment has staying power with former federal officials as well.
And this is somebody who should never be near a decision-making in the federal government again in his life.
I know I'm very close to a congressman from Kentucky who probably would co-sponsor that with you, the great Thomas Massey.
In fact, I can't wait until I hear the two of you together defending civil liberties on the floor of the House, which neither the Democratic leadership nor the Republican leadership wants to hear, Congressman Kucinich, because they're all part They all favor wars without declaration.
They'll just pay for them.
And they all favor this massive surveillance.
Those numbers were overwhelming.
Some libertarians on the right and some progressives on the left have voted against that stuff.
But the overwhelming majority of the House to which you seek to return is totally in lockstep with the deep state.
Agreed?
100%.
Our constitutional rights are being violated every day that Congress refuses to take up the question of the legitimacy of the administration's actions in furthering war around the world.
You can start with Article 1, Section 8, which empowers the Congress and only the Congress to make war.
And as a result, we have wars going on in the Middle East, wars going on.
The U.S. is fulminating that.
It's providing money.
And Congress is silent.
And so I intend to enforce the Constitution.
And anytime there is a constitutional question, I did that in the past, challenging presidents of both parties.
And, you know, not for any small reason, Judge.
You know, I carry a copy of this with me.
Oh, good for you.
And it looks well-worn, Dennis.
Glad to hear that.
It is.
I remember when this happened when I was at Fox.
I happen to have been interviewing your then-colleague, notorious character, New York City-slash-Harlem Congressman Charlie Rangel.
When President Obama came on national television from Brazil, where he happened to be visiting, Congress was on a break and he announced that we were bombing Libya.
And of course, this was not done with any declaration of war.
It wasn't even done with the military.
It was done with the CIA and various intelligence and foreign assets.
Concocted by Mrs. Clinton, then the Secretary of State.
Were you able to stop that?
Well, you know, that was central.
that the issue of Libya was central to my involvement in Congress.
Because I warned President Obama that to go ahead and to bomb Libya without congressional approval was a...
Now, some Democrats who are on that call claim that I said that I was going to move forward with an impeachment.
No, I didn't do that.
But what I did do was to help inform President Obama, who is after all a constitutional attorney, that there is a prohibition on him acting without the...
So what happened is this.
I forced the administration to come to Congress and to get the votes.
They didn't have them at first.
I put together a coalition of Democrats and Republicans that made it possible to block the movement towards war.
And so we held up the war for three days.
John Boehner worked with the administration to see what the terms would be of the attack.
We should have never attacked Libya.
There was no basis for that.
John, your fellow Ohioan, who was the Speaker of the House at the time.
Right.
And I worked with Republicans on various things.
I didn't always give them a vote, but at least I worked with them to try to see, in this case, if there was a way to block the war.
Yeah, I mean, you know, and that was later on, you know, it was Hillary Clinton was behind that.
And later on, we saw that Barack Obama admitted that was his worst mistake as president of the United States, that he went into Libya under the advice of Hillary Clinton.
And so here again, the State Department led the way for an administration to
Nothing about U.S. intervention there was right.
So, yeah, you're right about Libya.
And President Obama, I think, to this day, regrets it.
I want to switch to Ukraine and play for you a clip from Defense Secretary Austin in Kiev two days ago.
Chris, cut number 11. On Ukraine's immediate needs goes on.
We're also committed to sustaining your support as pledged in the bilateral security agreement that you and President Biden signed in July.
Now, that $400 million is a huge number, but it is a drop in the bucket because it's one tranche of, you ready for this number?
You probably know it, $265 billion.
That the Congress has authorized the president to spend in Ukraine.
Again, no declaration of war ruining the country.
What?
To drive Vladimir Putin from office?
Do the neocons really think that the Ukraine war can drive Vladimir Putin from office, Congressman Kucinich?
Here again, U.S. State Department driving a policy that started With the encirclement of Russia and then knocking off the duly elected government of Ukraine in order to push Ukraine from a position of non-alignment to require it to be part of the West's advance towards Moscow,
Ukraine's sovereignty was absolutely undermined by the United States intervention in their government.
The U.S. then pushed Ukraine to attack its eastern provinces, and Donbass, Donetsk, and Luhansk killed 14,000 Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine.
And that gave Russia the excuse to invade Ukraine.
Now, look, this is a nightmare.
And here we have...
People not being able to pay their utilities, their rent, their mortgages, their hospital bills, the educational expenses for their children.
And here's our government willy-nilly spending trillions of dollars abroad.
Because if you go back to the wars after 9-11, the United States has spent $8 trillion.
$36 trillion deficit on wars that we never should have been involved in.
Think of the kind of great life the people in America could have had if we had not gone into this kind of debt.
Think of how we would be able to meet more of the needs of the American people.
Instead, we're blowing up things all over the world.
The military-industrial complex are cashing in, and the American people are suffering, and we're taking the U.S. to the We're dealing with people who are leading the country right now, particularly in the State Department, who really, we ought to take the keys of the car away from them because they're driving it towards a cliff.
What do we do about presidential killings?
President Trump famously had General Soleimani assassinated an Iranian general in Iraq talking about peace with his opposite number or going to a lunch to talk about peace.
He never made it there.
President Obama famously assassinated Anwar al-Awlaki and his 16-year-old son, both of whom were born in the United States.
I don't even remember the names of the people that President Biden has killed with drones.
This brave new world.
A presidential killing is, in my view, criminal.
It's a war crime because it's the use of state power against a civilian, and it's an American crime, a homicide.
What do you think?
It takes us so far away from where the nation should be.
No president should have a godlike power to...
Check the Constitution.
It's called due process of law.
And those are principles that we are supposed to abide by, but they went out the door in the war on terror.
But listen to this.
There is a new Department of Defense directive.
Which gives the Directive 5240.01, which provides for a stealth expansion of military intelligence powers, which gives the military the ability to use lethal force against American citizens in becoming an adjunct to police.
Local police enforcement clearly violating posse comitatus.
You know, just when you think things can't get worse, they're getting worse.
It's not only that these presidents at your site went along with an assassination policy.
I even had a deck of cards where I think it was George Bush, you know, would throw a card on and say, get this person or that person, or maybe it was Obama or both.
But the point is that the, That happened when John Kennedy was killed and Robert Kennedy was killed to change our politics.
But in many places, the assassinations are used just as a means of trying to break an organization.
And it's not happening.
And so it's run amok, not just for the U.S., but in other countries as well.
Clear violation of human rights, violation of every principle that one would stand for, whether it's in the Constitution of the United States, various charters internationally.
I mean, where are we going with this?
Just, you know, it becomes a Life doesn't mean anything then.
Just go after anybody you don't agree with and kill them.
So, Congressman, at the present time, the federal government's debt is about $36 trillion.
Its debt service, the interest it pays on those loans, is over a trillion a year.
How much longer do you think we can go on like this without some radical change in spending?
We're going to lose our freedom if we don't address this issue because the government's either going to be run by the banks or it's going to be run by people who just feel that They can spend money without worrying about where it comes from, without worrying about resources, leading us to hyperinflation.
We don't handle our own economy apart from the rest of the world.
And when you look at how the rest of the world is looking at a de-dollarization, which causes the knockout effect is to We're looking at the decline in our way of life, in our quality of life, in our standard of living.
There won't be anything anymore such a middle class.
They'll just evaporate.
And it's all going to be because we had a government that went on a tear after 9-11 and decided that it was going to engage in this Megalomaniacal impulse to rule the world, or at least to spend money for the profit of a few, at the expense of a many, with these military contractors who are absolutely stealing from the American people.
Yeah, we're jeopardizing our future, and you can't keep doing this endlessly.
There's going to be a price to pay, and there's going to be a day of reckoning.
War strips of our freedom.
War spending strips us of our freedom.
Debts strips us of our freedom.
How do we protect our freedoms under these circumstances?
That's what I'm concerned about.
This is why I want to go back to Congress, to be the voice, to be the person who stands up and speaks out and say, stop these endless wars.
Stop this growing of the debt.
Stop government intrusion into our private lives in an attempt to wreck our constitutional privileges.
Congressman, last topic.
As we speak, the BRICS nations are meeting in Russia.
We all know that Joe Biden, and as you know, he can do this on his own under a terrible 1936.
Supreme Court decision imposed embargoes and sanctions on all things Russian.
Here's what President Putin had to say about how poorly the Americans expected Russia to do.
And how the outcome wasn't exactly what the Americans expected, cut number 14. We never refused the dollar as a universal currency.
We were blocked from using it.
Now 95% of all external trade of Russia, it is carried out with our partners in national currencies.
They did all this with their own hands.
They thought everything would collapse.
But no, nothing collapsed.
It's developing on a new basis.
Gross domestic product of the BRICS nations vastly exceeds the G7.
Russia is far more prosperous now than before President Biden imposed sanctions.
What is America getting wrong, Congressman Kucinich?
Well, it's called being hoist on one's own petard.
What we're getting wrong is that we have misused our economic power with sanctions.
And we've used the war to try to change not only the political terrain but economic terrain as well in order to corner the market on energy supplies.
What we're getting out of it is inflation, a budget deficit that is out of control, a loss of our freedom, the destruction of our Constitution.
You know, America's headed in a very dangerous direction.
And when we see things like this recent directive I pointed out, which gives military intelligence powers to start to get involved domestically, we're looking at something that is so far away from the journey that our founders set us on.
And we're moving into a sphere of activity that doesn't look like the America we grew up in.
It looks like something that is out of a horror picture.
And it's very scary.
Congressman Kucinich, my one regret is that I can't vote for you because I don't live in the 7th District of Ohio, but I hope that many, many, many thousands do, and I wish you well, my dear friend.
I hope the next time you're here, I can truly call you congressman rather than just the honorific.
You're a great man with a great grasp of America's needs and of the constitutional values that the man whose monument is behind you gave to us.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Of course.
Thank you for joining us, Congressman.
A pleasure.
Thank you, Judge Napolitano.
Thank you.
Of course, coming up later today at 220 Eastern, not here, not here, but on George Galloway's YouTube, your humble correspondent.
We'll be a guest on the great George Galloway's show, 2.20 Eastern today.
Back here at 3 o 'clock Eastern, Phil Giraldi.
Still here at 4 o 'clock Eastern, Aaron Maté.
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