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Oct. 7, 2024 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
26:18
Matt Hoh :
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Tuesday, October 8th, 2024.
Matt Ho will be here with us in just a moment to discuss why does the United States government always seem to want war?
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Matt, welcome here, my dear friend.
Before we talk about the bigger picture about which you have spoken recently about the genetic, it almost seems, urges of the White House for war, I want your thoughts on Israel in the past year.
How has the Middle East landscape changed in the past 365 days?
Thanks for having me back on, Judge.
And I'm not sure if it's changed so much as the demarcation lines, our understanding of it, the alliances, the relationships have really been exposed, have really grown bolder, been highlighted, right?
So what was already in process, what was already the reality of the region has been further embossed.
If you will, further detailed, we have a better understanding of it.
So certainly that connection between the U.S. and Israel, the connection of the axis of resistance, other nations like Turkey and Saudi Arabia saying, you know what, hold up, we're not so quick to go along with the Americans.
So all the things I think that maybe if we go back 13 months, Judge, and we were to have this conversation.
About the details, the contours, the realities of the Middle East and what to expect.
I think what we are seeing then has just been accelerated by this past year.
And of course, looming over it is the continual decline of the American empire and the growth of other alternatives, the growth of other powers, the growth of other institutions like BRICS that will shape the future that we live in.
Is Israel stronger and more stable or weaker and less stable than it was a year ago?
I think it's...
That's a great response.
There's a military metric.
There's a geopolitical metric.
There's an economic metric.
Take any one of the three or all three.
Sure.
So just in terms of, I think on the face of it, Their economy is bleeding out.
They have been isolated from the world.
The prognosis for the future of Israel is, at best, political chaos and an increased control by either militarist nationalists or reactionary religious zealots or possibly civil war.
And then the stability and security for individual Israelis has been completely degraded over the past year.
So you can look at it that way.
But then you can also look at a sense of what has been proven, Israel's relationship with the United States, the United States' relationship with Israel, and the commitment of the two.
Not something supported by the majority of Americans, but supported entirely by our political and media establishment here in the U.S. In the last year, Brown University's Cost of War just put out a report yesterday about this.
In the last 366 days, Judge, The United States has provided $23 billion in weapons and assistance to Israel in the last year.
And that's not counting a $20 billion arms deal that was signed in August, as well as at least 100 arms deals that didn't make some type of nebulous and vague threshold that the White House and State Department had to report them.
$23 billion, that's 10 times what we've spent in Ukraine.
Well, no.
In Ukraine, we've spent $175 billion, $180 billion in two and a half years.
What you also see is that Israel is first among all the vassals, all the members of the American empire.
Israel is first and remain that way.
So you see in terms of the aid to Israel and what it takes away from.
So one of the things, like say for Russia, why Russia is pleased to see this developing situation continue is because the United States is shifting its military focus, its logistics focus, its industrial focus to Israel.
If anyone thinks that Ukraine is going to be getting any air defense missile systems in any serious quantity anytime soon, you're kidding yourself.
Everything is going to Israel.
So it also, you know, in addition, not just the dollar amounts, the material amounts.
Back in early August, we learned that 50,000 tons of munitions, weapons, vehicles, so forth, have been shipped from the U.S. to Israel, a weapons shipment that was delivered.
Those numbers have even been increased further because we know the Americans have increased their supply, their support of Israel in the last couple months in a run-up to this preparation for the war in Lebanon and potential all-out war with Iran.
But you see it in other ways, too, the diplomatic cover, the protection, the willingness of the United States to thumb its nose at the entire world.
And to link arms with Israel and say it's us and Israel against the world.
And so when you get back to this question of Israel stronger, for the average Israeli on the street, absolutely not.
For the economy of Israel, for the Israeli defense forces, even though they've got this infusion coming in from the U.S., they're still exhausted and they're being asked to take on more war.
But for Israel, the metaphysical idea of Israel.
Yes, I think it's much stronger than it was a year ago because it can go forward.
It can take the opportunity that the October 7th attacks, as heinous as they were, the October 7th attacks presented to them, the opportunity given to them, and go forward with that, take advantage of it, to run with it.
They had a causes baili on October 7th last year that they have fully exploited.
And they have conducted a year-long genocide in Gaza.
A horror show, unimaginable to any of us that we've watched.
Every day, Judge, we see videos coming out of Gaza that we wish to God we had never seen, and we see that over and over again.
They're in the process of doing the same in the West Bank, preparing to eventually annex it.
They have put, as I read this morning, about 15,000 ground troops into southern Lebanon and are bombing Beirut.
Daily.
And, of course, threatening everyone else in the region, including Iran.
And they've got both American presidential candidates falling over themselves to prove who's more supportive or who loves Israel more.
So in the idea of Israel, the metaphysical Israel, the quest of greater Israel, the Zionist project, I would say Israel is stronger than it was a year ago.
It may very well be its downfall.
Last week, or maybe it was two weeks ago now, Professor Gilbert Doctorow offered the theory that just as the United States is using Ukraine as a battering ram with which it believes to weaken Russia, the United States is using Israel as a battering ram.
This, of course, is very contrary to the John Mearsheimer view that the donor class in America totally controls the American government, and that, in fact, it is Benjamin Netanyahu who was leading Joe Biden around by the nose and not the other way around.
Where do you fit in this Mearsheimer and Larry Johnson on one side?
Professor Doctorow on the other side, academic dispute.
I'm probably about 70-30 in John's camp as opposed to Gilbert's, but I see the reality of both, and I see the truth in both.
And I think certainly Gilbert's explanation...
Israel occurs in the first place.
This is the purpose of the British mandate.
This is the purpose of the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
You know, the Brits in the 1930s, the Governor General of Jerusalem said, our purpose here in Palestine with this British mandate is to create a loyal Jewish Ulster.
In the midst of a potentially hostile sea of Arabs.
And then so when the United States takes over the British Empire and inherits its empire, that it still has that interest.
Over these last decades, though, and particularly since the 1980s, as the legalized bribery system that we have here as a political system, the United States has really become entrenched.
It is the guiding rule.
It is the thing that matters.
The money matters.
That's what matters.
Israel has been very successful at co-opting U.S.-American Middle East policy through its political power, through its lobby here.
And the fact that we have many true believers in Washington, D.C. who believe that Israel is the right interest, is an Israel-first policy, is the right thing for the United States because of a variety of different things.
Even though it's not a democracy and it's a racist apartheid state.
I think that's what, for some of those who support Israel, that's part of it.
They see a white supremacy there.
They see a continuation of colonization.
They see an aspect of imperialism here that they identify with.
Israel is us over there.
Israel is the West in the Middle East.
And that's why you have many who are true believers.
In all of this.
So I think it's complicated.
I think at this point in 2024, because you have to go back decades to unwind this, it becomes a bit of a chicken and an egg question.
But both things are true.
What does the U.S. stand for but its own hegemony?
That's what it stands for, Judge.
That's what it stands for.
It stands for the empire.
And this goes back centuries.
So to grapple with this question that I'm really glad you're bringing up and that folks have been debating on this channel for the last week.
I would love to see, and I'm sure your viewers would love to see it too, have Gilbert and John, you moderate a debate.
That would be terrific.
But we have to unpack all this.
We've got to go back to Manifest Destiny.
We've got to go back to the doctrine of discovery.
Right?
The idea of the American Empire in its most nascent form expanding westward across the continent.
And then once it, you know, it's no coincidence that, what, a year or two or three after we subjugate the last Native American tribe, there's a coup in Hawaii.
And then a couple years after that, it's the Spanish-American War.
And before that, of course, you had American Marines and the Navy opening up Japan and opening up Korea.
So there's elements to this that goes into the ideology.
And then, of course, the commercial greed.
And now, of course, because of the political system we have, this legalized bribery system, an efficient, well-put-together, competent movement like the Israeli lobby can capture our government, just as big ag has captured our agriculture policy, the banks control our finance policy, and so forth.
All right, permit me this fantasy then.
Let's say that some very, very liberal government is elected in Israel that works out a two-state solution with the Palestinians.
Does the U.S. oppose it?
No, the U.S. doesn't oppose it.
As long as the interests of the Israel lobby coincide with the interests of the Israeli government, which they do roughly 90% of the time.
From the river to the sea.
Right.
And so you have to now take on the chapter two of your fantasy that the Israeli lobby is in lockstep with this Israeli government.
Well, that is a real fantasy.
That is a real fantasy.
So I think the idea of this, Joe Judge, is that one of the things you have to understand is that people, you know, the military industrial complex, the empire.
It's all been entrenched for so long that the infrastructure in place doesn't permit anybody to come to power in the United States who would believe such a thing.
Anyone who comes to power in the United States who actually matters, you have some outliers like Bernie Sanders, and most of us are not too pleased with him now anyway, but they're permitted, they're allowed, they never accomplish anything, they never make much of a difference, but for the most part, the structure.
For the American Empire, it's foreign policy in Washington, D.C., and this extends to not just the White House and the State Department, the Pentagon, the CIA, the National Security Council, but also to the Congress, to all the think tanks,
to the universities across the country, the weapons companies, the banks, the fossil fuel corporations, none of those, the media, of course, none of those entities are going to allow people to rise up within them that would have a contrary view to what's in the best interest of the empire, and then by extension, the best interest of those institutions.
So you have a perennially reinforcing system, a structure in place that doesn't allow for the consideration of any other policies, except for those that have already been put in motion, because that's in the best interest of the U.S. I mean, for my fantasies to come to pass, the Congress would have to be two-thirds Thomas Massey, and Ron Paul would have to be in the White House.
These are real, these are dreams, these are fantasies, but they're not likely to happen because of the structures built into the media system to make sure that people don't rise to significant positions of authority without a
And if they do recognize that, don't they know that no empire lasts?
Well, I think they enjoy being a part of an empire much more than they would enjoy being a part of a republic.
Theirs is a Roman view.
Right?
Theirs is an imperial view.
And that's where they see the benefits to themselves and to the institutions and to the ideologies that they ascribe to.
So they have no interest in a republic.
Their interest is only in empire.
And everything that surrounds them reinforces that.
So you saw it this past weekend with Lindsey Graham.
Not just on Fox News in the U.S., but also on the October 7th anniversary in Israel, where him and Richard Blumenthal, of course, right, who are the two biggest hawks on Ukraine.
Turns out they're also the two biggest hawks in terms of promoting genocide and war throughout the Middle East.
Who would have guessed?
But Lindsey Graham's in Israel with Benjamin Netanyahu on October 7th.
And, you know, in both those conversations I'm talking about, He dismisses the impact of the hurricane, Hurricane Helene, in his own state.
On the Fox News hit, he says, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been around the state.
It's bad.
But what's really bad is Israel's surrounded by enemies.
If we don't fight with Israel, they're going to come here and kill us.
And then he says the same thing in Israel.
Even worse, he says people want to talk about hurricanes.
What we really need to talk about is Israel.
I mean, so it's not even a question, Judge.
Of a competing belief system.
It's what actually attracts these people, what they believe.
And these guys are warmongers.
They believe in the romance of the empire and its wars.
And this is what I'm saying is that both things are true.
They're both true believers and there's both money involved here.
And what you have is you have the money allows the true believers to craft the policies, to build the infrastructure, to set and keep the empire running, and the money underwrites it all.
So yeah, you see it over and over again, this type of Leviathan that we're up.
Let's get a little granular.
Israeli Defense Minister Galan just announced about 20 minutes before we went on air that the IDF believes it has killed Nasrallah's successor as the head of Hezbollah.
How is it that the IDF can find the well-protected and hidden head of Hezbollah and the well-protected and hidden successor to the head of Nasrallah, and it doesn't know where the hostages are?
That's a good question, Judge.
That's a very good question, right?
I think some of it is the obvious answer is the desire to do so.
Look, when Netanyahu a month or two ago said, You know, the third goal or the fourth goal of our war with Hamas is now to ensure our settlers are able to return to northern Israel.
The M.Y.A.
who is putting in place a goal that had an achievable and observable metric, right?
Either those Israeli settlers are back in their homes in northern Israel or they're not.
Either the hostages are out of Gaza or they're not.
And as long as they're not, the war can continue.
So I think that's the obvious answer here.
It's because that's what they want to do.
We certainly talk about how sophisticated, how capable, how competent the Israeli intelligence agencies are, particularly on the electronic end.
But, you know, but that shows you how, you know, how good is it overall a year later?
That's the best they can offer the Israeli public.
And now they've got ground troops in southern Lebanon.
Hezbollah is putting out video of them killing Israeli soldiers.
And this is, of course, the historical precedence for that.
Very clear.
So you can have the best electronic intelligence in the world.
You can break into WhatsApp or Telegram.
More likely, I think these technology companies have given that information to the Israelis, and the Israelis have then been able to exploit it.
You can have a terrific human intelligence operation.
Remember, unlike in Gaza, where the population is entirely against Israel, you have many in Lebanon.
Who are against Hezbollah, who are against the Shia, and who have aligned in the past, violently aligned in the past, with Israel.
So the human intelligence operation that Israel has within Lebanon is probably pretty superb as well as their electronic.
But that doesn't matter.
Because what you're up against, what you're trying to crush here is the will of the people, the will of resistance to occupation.
And that simply is not something you can eradicate by dropping bombs and firing missiles onto.
The best you can do is subjugate it with a ground invasion and occupation.
And then guess what?
Hey, you're the United States in Baghdad.
You're the United States in Kandahar province.
You're Israel in Lebanon from 1982 to 2000.
Switching gears, how much longer can the Ukrainian military hold out?
We know it's going to hold out until at least November 6th, but how much longer can it realistically hold out?
I mean, if the Ukrainians are willing to give land for time, if they're willing to, let me go back, I think, because the more important thing, as long as the money's coming in, As long as the collapse economically and a government collapse doesn't occur, I believe the Ukrainians and the Americans think that they can hold out.
If you look at how far west the Russians have gone, how much far they have to go just to reach the center point of the country, not even the center point of the country, but the Dnieper River, which runs north-south through the country, they still have hundreds of kilometers to go.
So I think the idea is that, and also the knowledge, that the Russians don't fully want to occupy it.
The Russians have basically achieved their territorial goals.
They may say they want more as a buffer zone, but in terms of what they have annexed and what they want, they're getting there.
They're halfway through Donetsk province, mostly through Luhansk.
Zaporizhia and Kursan, they're two-thirds or three-quarters of the way through.
So they have already achieved certain territorial aims.
So I think the Ukrainians and the Americans and the Brits are saying they're not going to push any further as long as we can keep this fire hose of money coming in.
And hey, the other thing on the manpower issue, Judge, is I'm on the side.
I have a more conservative view of casualties in this war than many others do, but even still, the number's atrocious.
But there's also this notion, too, that the Ukrainians are not recruiting men below the age of 26. So you have 17- and 18-year-olds to 25-year-olds who are still eligible to be drafted.
That's a half a generation that they can feed into this furnace.
And I think when you look at the Stoltenbergs, you look at Mark Ruda, who just took over from Stoltenberg at NATO, you look at the Jake Sullivans, you look at these men.
Who are pushing this war, who believe in this war.
That's great.
More men to throw in the furnace.
We can keep this thing going.
What happens then is that eventually the lines settle down.
The Russians have reached how far they want to advance.
And then now we can just rocket them and shell them and send missiles into their cities and wear them that way.
This gives NATO a purpose, so on and so forth.
And then eventually the Russian government will collapse because that's what we've been saying it's going to be doing for years now.
The sanctions are finally going to work.
You know, I mean, so you can see how for the Ukrainians, the Americans and the Brits, they see a pathway here to keep this thing going.
And unfortunately, I agree to an extent that a year from now, we will still be talking about Ukraine, or I shouldn't say will, we quite possibly.
We'll be talking about Ukraine the same way that we're talking about now, just that the front line may have moved west 50, 100 kilometers, etc.
And the big thing, of course, is God help us, has this war escalated either by bringing in other nations or by escalating up the ladder and bringing in nuclear weapons.
Matt, we were all over the map, and I appreciate you letting me take you there and you taking me by the hand as we walk through it.
But much appreciated, my dear friend.
Thanks, Judge.
Sure.
Look forward to seeing you next week, as always.
You bet.
You bet.
Thank you.
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