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Aug. 21, 2024 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
29:36
Re-Broadcast: Col. Douglas Macgregor : Did the US Invade Russia?
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Hi, everyone.
Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Wednesday, August 14, 2024.
Colonel Douglas McGregor joins us now.
Colonel McGregor, my dear friend, thank you for all of your time.
Colonel, to get to the bottom line of a controversial issue, did the United States of America invade Russia in the past two weeks?
Well, that's an interesting way to put it.
We've certainly captured some audio that suggests that Americans and British citizens, ostensibly in Ukrainian uniform, were involved in the operations on the ground there.
So I suppose you could make the argument that it was at least planned to some extent by NATO.
I'm hearing people say that they planned this some time ago.
It's possible.
But beyond that, I don't know too much.
I know more about the Russian response than I do about what's left of the Ukrainian force, which I don't think is very much.
What has been the Russian military response, Colonel?
Well, first of all, let's set the stage a little bit and get people to understand that in this part of the world, there are many, many areas that are very sparsely populated.
We think of Russia as a very large country, but we often miss the point that between the large cities, there are villages.
Not large numbers of people living in densely wooded areas.
You can travel for long distances almost the same way in parts of the western United States and see no one.
This area is very sparsely populated.
So that's the first point.
The second point is that Ukrainians were undoubtedly informed by us of how to go into the area, what area was probably the easiest to penetrate.
But they also had their eyes on the Kursk nuclear power plant.
Which I'm told they slightly damaged, but were unable to seize, which I think was part of the plan, though I haven't seen, obviously, the Ukrainian plan of operation.
Contrary to popular belief, the Russians have not panicked at all, and what's happened is that in a set of pincers from either side of the main routes, you now have Chechen forces and Wagner forces on the ground.
Supplemented by enormous quantities of striking power from Russian artillery, rockets, drones, missiles.
And the interesting part is that the Ukrainians are so elated by this ostensible success that they started to concentrate forces to reinforce what they thought was successful.
The problem with that is that as soon as they concentrated them just on the Ukrainian side of the Russian border, it became very obvious what they were doing.
And the Russians have used everything up to and including Iskander missiles carrying more than 1,000-pound warheads of high explosive to utterly decimate, destroy, and annihilate these concentrations of new troops that were supposed to reinforce what's happened.
As of right now, we know the Ukrainians have had at least 2,000 casualties, of which 1,600 are dead.
Most of the equipment, Humvees, MRAPs, BTRs, things like that, have been destroyed.
So it's turned into a PR exercise as opposed to anything of any operational military value.
And of course, the strategic outcome of this, in my judgment, the most important part of it, is that I think Moscow has decided there will be no further attempts to negotiate an end to this with the regime in Kiev.
How many Russian soldiers or civilians were killed by the Ukrainians?
Do we know?
I don't think we have a good number.
I think we've had a few hundred that have been wounded or killed, but not very many on the ground.
Civilians, that is.
I don't know about the Russian forces.
I doubt seriously they've taken heavy casualties.
The forces that they responded or used to respond to this penetration are very battle-hardened, experienced forces.
Both the Chechen and Wagner forces on the ground are some of the best that the Russians have.
Seem to be chewing up the Ukrainians very rapidly.
I doubt that very many will survive.
Have the Ukrainians been staging corpses for the press?
Well, we have the testimony now of a French journalist.
You can find it on X. He indicates that he watched how this happened.
So now that's just another piece of evidence for the larger lie that has been behind this entire Ukrainian operation from day one.
Go back to Kyrsk.
Of what does the Ukrainian occupation consist?
Do they govern?
Do they kill civilians?
Do they arrest civilians?
Do they chase civilians away?
Do they occupy villages and towns?
Well, first of all, there's no occupation because they don't have enough forces to move in and control even small villages.
About the most they can do is drive through the area, shoot it up.
Make a splash, certainly for the media, and then fall back.
But that's not even working at this point.
Any attempts to fall back quickly are failing miserably and the Ukrainians are being annihilated.
Now, how many civilians were killed either deliberately or by accident?
I have no idea.
Maybe we'll find out later on.
I think the point that Americans and people in Europe need to understand is this is not what the mainstream media suggests it is.
This is not some sort of battle of the bulge.
We forget that when the Germans attacked, they had a half a million troops staged, organized, prepped, and ready to fight us.
But the one thing that does bear comparing in this particular setting is that just as the Bulge squandered forces needlessly on a hopeless operation, the Ukrainians are squandering whatever good troops they've got left on an even more hopeless and pointless operation.
The use of U.S. ammunition and the use of U.S. technicians to operate the equipment that was too sophisticated for the Ukrainians to learn how to use.
Well, I think that's a reasonable assessment, Judge.
I don't know about...
I think most of the planning was probably done in England.
Taking the lead on some of this as opposed to the CIA, but they're joined at the hip in any case.
And British and U.S. advisors were no doubt involved, but they've been involved from the beginning.
The Russians know this.
It's the U.S. side and the British side that have understandably downplayed their role on the ground.
This time it's very obvious.
It'd be interesting to find out once they start to examine the bodies, you know, the dead.
We're probably up to, I would say, at least 2,300, 400 dead on the ground.
The last report I just gave you was from yesterday.
So the more dead that you find, inevitably somebody is going to be shot and killed who is part of the advisory team.
Then we'll know a little bit more.
What do the Russians, what is their thinking if when they pick up bodies of those they've killed?
They find Polish, British, German, French, Estonian troops.
Well, the worst part of it is that they conclude, excuse me, erroneously, that everyone in the West hates them and wants to destroy them.
And I say erroneously.
But this will be perceived evidence for why Russia has to remain a major conventional and nuclear military power, why there is very little point in expecting any rationality from us, and there will be no willingness to go back to the negotiating table with us to take us seriously.
At least not until we have really fundamentally new governments in place.
And I think that's unfortunate because this war, as we've discussed before, desperately needs to end.
People in Ukraine have had it.
I was looking at projections of future populations the other day.
They're dismal.
We're talking about a nation that began at about 40 million, maybe a little more, a little less.
We're not sure.
Down to 15 million in the future and less.
This is an unmitigated disaster for the world, not just Ukraine, and for Europe.
If there are troops involved in this invasion that are not Ukrainian, would they be out of uniform and without identification, which of course exposes them to all kinds of horrors pursuant to the Geneva Convention?
They lose all the protection that troops have.
Would they do something like this?
Would they disguise their origin?
I suspect they're in Ukrainian uniform, and I doubt seriously that any of them have anything on them that would identify them as American or British or other types of soldiers.
I mean, when you go into combat, one of the first things you do is that you put away all that material because you don't want the enemy to know very much about you.
I mean, in today's world with computers, they can find out who you are, where you live, where your family lives, and your whole life story.
Online.
So I would hope that these people went into action with nothing on hand to identify them.
What do you see as the likely outcome of this?
I would imagine President Trump can trade Kyrsk.
This is absurd, but this is what I think his thinking is from what he said.
He can trade his occupation of Kyrsk for certain geographical regions that he believes are still Ukraine and that the Russians do.
I think the realistic outcome is that whatever Zelensky and his friends in Kiev are thinking or thought is irrelevant.
I think what's happened in Moscow is that they've decided let's forget negotiations.
There has been a lot of pressure at the top on President Putin.
To end this thing.
The Russians want it ended.
They want to see the steamroller move forward and crush what's left of the Ukrainian force.
I think we're going to see something like that.
I think more important, I think there are going to be some decisive moves towards Kiev.
And, you know, for what it's worth, there's a lot of evidence that Mr. Zelensky and his inner circle have made preparations to leave town quickly.
Let's put it that way.
What pressure does this put in the Kremlin on President Zelensky from the more nationalistic and militaristic types that are there with him?
I'm sure that they can put some pressure on him, but I wouldn't absolve him of responsibility for setting up Ukraine for annihilation.
He bears a heavy responsibility for that and to blame it on some of the inner circle or some of the people that...
I think he's part of the giant theatrical performance.
Remember, this man is someone who grew up in Russia and spoke Russian.
And he has no real connection to speak of with Ukraine.
He was picked for a role.
He's played the role very well.
I don't think anybody doubts that.
And I think he's being amply rewarded with it.
I think his investments in the West and houses and estates and banks and so forth are all in preparation for his imminent departure.
And as soon as it becomes clear that he's in very real danger of being killed and his government crushed, I think he'll leave town at high speed.
And I think that's sooner than most of us really appreciate.
Chris, play for Colonel Ian Fermi, cut number 13 and then cut number 14. You will recognize both of these individuals, and you'll recognize where they are, and you'll probably be repulsed at what they say, but I want to hear your comments.
13 and then 14. You're fighting our fight, the independence and freedom of people around the world, including the United States.
We want the American people to appreciate the value of this alliance.
So two and a half years later, you're still standing and you're in Russia.
Remind me not to invade Ukraine.
I'm so proud of you, your people, your military, your leadership, your country.
You're under siege, unlike anything I've seen in my lifetime.
They were predicting in Washington that Kiev would fall in four days, the whole country would fall in three weeks.
They were wrong.
That's the thinking of a liberal Democrat, Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut, and a conservative Republican, Lindsey Graham from South Carolina.
I was kind of appalled at Senator Blumenthal saying to President Zelensky, you're fighting our fight.
Of course, this is what we have argued going back to Victoria Nuland.
The US government and the neocon mentality want to use Ukraine as a battering ram with which to drive Vladimir Putin from office.
They still think they can do it.
Well, I'm not sure they think they can do it anymore, but this was a very expensive way to create the illusion or further reinforce the illusion that there's something left in Ukraine.
Again, the only people that seem to be...
And I say that in all sincerity because if we cared at all what happened to the Ukrainians, we would have halted this bloodbath a long time ago.
As far as Blumenthal and Graham are concerned, I think this is a wonderful display of why the Republican versus Democratic labels don't really matter very much.
These are prominent members of the so-called Uniparty.
And the Uniparty has two wings.
You have the Graham wing and you have the Blumenthal wing.
They may differ on issues of domestic policy, although I don't see a whole lot of evidence that Graham is at all concerned about immigration, let alone Blumenthal, obviously.
He probably welcomes it as a way to destroy his political opponents that he sees on the right.
But the Uniparty is completely divorced from the American people.
A friend of mine says all the time, you know, we've got taxation without representation in all 50 states.
I think you just saw evidence for it.
Because no one in their right mind in the United States wants to be drawn into a war with Russia.
Yet we continue to press this issue ostensibly with the hope that we will confront the Russians at some point.
It seems insane, but I get that.
impression.
Let me switch gears, Colonel.
Yesterday, This is the mosque that under Israeli law is reserved for Muslims.
This is the mosque that Ariel Sharon famously or infamously visited.
When that started a war, we're going to play a clip of this for you, whereby you can hear Mr. Ben Gavir explaining to a camera that catches him in the middle of this march exactly what he's doing and why he's there, and then, of course, I elicit your comments.
We are at the Temple Mount on Tisha B 'Av.
Today we commemorate the destruction of the Temple, but we must also honestly acknowledge that there is significant progress here regarding the governance and sovereignty.
The sight of Jews praying, as I said, our policy is to permit prayer.
But I'll say something else.
We must win this war.
We must win, not go to summits in Doha or in Cairo, but defeat them.
Bring them to their knees.
That's the message.
We can defeat Hamas, bring it to its knees.
This, of course, is the person who, with his colleague, Finance Minister Smotrich, if they leave the Cabinet and the Coalition and the Knesset, Prime Minister Netanyahu is out of a job.
What is your view of this kind of provocation at this moment in time, given all the slaughter in Gaza, but the failure to eradicate Hamas?
Yes.
You know, I think we have to understand when we watch this, that right now the United States is committing a substantial portion of its military power to realize the goals that were just enunciated.
In other words, whether Americans realize it or not, we are effectively joining this fight.
To achieve exactly what he said.
You know, a famous Holocaust survivor, Otmar, I think is his name, was in a very fierce debate with other Israelis about the comparisons, the ugly comparisons that have been made between Israeli operations and the Nazis.
Something that I am loath to do and don't like.
He's a Holocaust survivor, and you're looking at someone in this person that you showed us, Ben-Gavir, who really wants to purify Israel and eliminate everything and everyone in it who is not a Jew.
Let's be frank, that's what it's all about.
Now, normally I don't think we would be part of something like this, because I don't think most Americans would have signed on for it.
Not if they believe in any degree of tolerance.
Or humanitarian concerns.
But this is where we are.
So the first part is, I think this is helpful that you showed that because what he is stating is unambiguously true.
That's what they want.
And they want us to enable that.
More important, I think they're expecting us to make it happen for them.
Because without us, it cannot happen.
What do you think Prime Minister Netanyahu wants?
He clearly doesn't want to achieve any negotiated settlement here.
It will drive...
This is the other right-wing member of the cabinet, Belizeo Smotrich, who's the Minister of Finance, basically saying a ceasefire is effectively a surrender deal.
These two have been threatening to leave the coalition, and Netanyahu, in compliance with those threats, every time there's a deal on the table that Hamas agrees to what Israel and the U.S. have also put on the table, Israel raises the ante.
Even the New York Times acknowledged this much on the front page yesterday.
What does Netanyahu want, Colonel?
Well, we know what he doesn't want.
He doesn't want peace.
And I think Ambassador Freeman was talking to you recently and made the point that if you're interested in peace, you don't assassinate the leader of the negotiating team that sits across the table from you.
And that every time someone emerges with whom some sort of deal can be reached, they end up dead.
So I think Ambassador Freeman is right.
One thing he doesn't want is peace.
He wants the war.
I think there's something else here that was revealed in another statement that Mr. Netanyahu made where he said that Iran should understand that if they attack us, our counter-strike against them.
It's this, you know, chicken and egg issue.
Who did what to whom first?
Nobody bothers to point out that the Iranians are counter-striking.
No, they're attacking out of the blue and we will all punish them for doing so.
But he is effectively telling the Iranians You know, if I were sitting in your shoes, I would use everything I have because you have no incentive whatsoever to hold back because you will never, ever have peace with us.
I mean, that's really his message.
And again, where do we fit into all of this?
Well, that was my next question.
He is thumbing his nose at the United States and all of the assets.
That we have given him and all of the human assets from the director of the CIA down to Amos Hochstein and all the functionaries in between who think they're negotiating, unless they're not naive, they think they're negotiating for peace.
Netanyahu thumbs his nose at them while he enjoys the adulation, Professor Sachs calls it rapturous adulation, of the United States Congress.
Well, I think we may want to bring Tom Cruise out of hiding and send him over on Mission Impossible this time and see whether or not he can make something work.
Because I really think it is Mission Impossible.
I really do think that Netanyahu and his close confidants and I think the majority of the Israeli population have all concluded that this showdown must happen.
It's do or die.
And again, he has complete control of the Biden administration.
The most laughable thing that you can read at this point in the press is the notion that the Biden administration is deeply unhappy with Mr. Netanyahu.
Well, if there's evidence for unhappiness, I haven't seen it.
On the contrary, he seems to get more and more and more of everything he can get.
What we are missing is the rest of the world.
And we're missing the assistance that's coming in from Russia, which is substantial.
And I also think we're missing China's interest in this thing.
They're sending some naval forces into the region, and they have made it very clear that anything that jeopardizes Iran's sovereignty and effectively survival of the Iranian state, that that's something they will not accept.
So we're looking at a much larger war already.
And again, you know, up until this point, we've been dealing with Erdogan the blowhard.
But now there's a lot of evidence on the ground in Turkey that the Turks are seriously working to get ready for what they think will be a role that they'll have to play in this wider war.
I can't conceive of anything worse for American national strategic interest than this outcome.
And I also really question what happens to Israel.
We know that the economy is in ruins.
We know that they are living inside a fortress with very little hope for escaping out of it forever.
How does this help them?
How do they come out of this alive and well?
I think they have fabricated this fantasy that the entire world will be at their feet and their enemies will be piled high in mountains of dead corpses.
I'm not sure that's the outcome they're going to get.
What is your view of the probability, the likelihood of significant military action from Iran to Israel?
Well, as I just told you, if they're listening carefully to Mr. Netanyahu and they're watching the massive American military buildup, at least at sea and at various air bases in the region, Why would they hold back?
I can't conceive of any reason to exercise any more restraint.
Because they have to understand that this is not going to be the last time.
They're going to be dragged into this situation repeatedly by us and Israel over and over and over again.
So they have to answer the question, what are they going to do about it?
Can they live through this if they quote-unquote exercise restraint?
They did that the last time.
And then there was hope that there would be negotiated settlements.
And you've got people like Burns and others rushing into the region, trying to do whatever they possibly can.
None of it has made any difference because Mr. Netanyahu is in charge.
He does not want a settlement.
The only settlement he's interested in is to turn as much of the region into a cemetery as he can, filled with the bodies of dead Muslims.
And Christians and anybody else who objects to what he wants to do.
Doesn't the American State Department and sort of the foreign policy elites, don't they understand that?
You know, you're asking me something I can't answer because I haven't talked to all of them, but you have to look at who's in charge.
Who are the people in these appointed positions?
Where do their loyalties lie?
What do they think is most important?
And again, you have another problem.
This is the persistent problem we face in the United States.
People think that war is something that happens on someone else's soil.
We've lost our fear of war, Judge.
We don't think it will visit us.
And then the second part of that, which is equally important, is that Americans are focused here.
They're focused on the southern border.
They're focused on this massive influx of aliens into the country.
They're watching as the administration Tries to rapidly transform the migrants into citizens.
We're conferring citizenship left and right on all sorts of people, when normally that takes many years to achieve.
Just ask any of the people that have come here legally how hard it was for them to finally acquire citizenship.
This is all around a disaster for us at home, and it's a disaster overseas, but the disaster here at home is more tangible.
It's more real.
They can reach out and touch it.
Whereas what's happening over in the Middle East is something they think is going to stay in the Middle East.
It won't.
Colonel McGregor, thank you very much for your time, my dear friend.
These are not happy topics to be talking about, but you cut through the fog with your usual clear and strong explanations.
Deeply appreciate it, my friend.
Look forward to seeing you next week.
Thanks, Judge.
Let's hope so.
Of course.
All the best.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
Coming up at 3 o 'clock Eastern this afternoon, Phil McGregor.
Excuse me, Phil McGregor.
That was Colonel McGregor.
Phil Giraldi.
What is the state of civil liberties in Israel today?
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