Mad at the Internet - A Conversation with Katie and Sacramento
Aired: 2026-01-19
Duration: 01:51:19


=== Meeting Tom in 2023 (07:28) ===

[00:00:00]  Hello, everybody.
[00:00:02]  I'm having a conversation today with Sacramento, who has been posting on the Kiwi Farms about Turkey Tom, and Katie, who is her friend, who also has known Turkey Tom and is also posting on the forum.
[00:00:14]  So just to get right into it, we're going to talk to Katie at first.
[00:00:19]  And I'm just going to ask that she tell whatever she wants to say from when she met Tom all the way up to when they stopped knowing each other.
[00:00:28]  And then we'll hear from Sacramento.
[00:00:31]  Okay.
[00:00:32]  So, Katie, hello.
[00:00:34]  Hi.
[00:00:37]  Hello.
[00:00:38]  Can you hear me?
[00:00:40]  Yes.
[00:00:41]  I think everything's fine.
[00:00:42]  I've already messed up my audio, but I think it should be fine.
[00:00:44]  Okay.
[00:00:45]  So how did you meet Turkey Tom?
[00:00:48]  I met him on Instagram in like late 2023.
[00:00:52]  He started liking my stories and then he followed me on Instagram.
[00:00:58]  And then I think he DM'd me first and just like swiped up on one of my stories and was like, pretty.
[00:01:05]  And I was like, oh my God, Turkey Tom.
[00:01:08]  This is crazy.
[00:01:12]  And then we just like started talking, like flirting back and forth.
[00:01:16]  And then quickly he was like, wanted to fly me out.
[00:01:20]  And then, so am I going too fast?
[00:01:23]  Or like, I feel like I'm going to- You're fine.
[00:01:25]  But if I want to interrupt, I'll just, I'll just ask, like, for instance, how long was it between he swiped on Instagram to, hey, I'm going to pay to fly you out to wherever?
[00:01:36]  I met him like probably December of 2023.
[00:01:41]  And then by January 2024, I was flown out.
[00:01:46]  So like a month, not even.
[00:01:48]  Okay.
[00:01:51]  And would you say, did it feel serious?
[00:01:54]  Did it feel like just like a hookup?
[00:01:56]  Or?
[00:01:57]  I mean, I'm not dumb.
[00:02:00]  So, you know, you can never really tell what's like an with like an internet personality or something if they're like trying to date you or whatever.
[00:02:08]  And so I like went there with like no intentions of like thinking that he was going to like try to marry me or anything like that.
[00:02:15]  But he was like very like he not, I hate the term like love bomb, but he's like love bomb for sure was like hella affectionate, but also like beating me, but during sex, but but otherwise would like sit there and like like compliment me and like be affectionate and like took me to like shoot guns and ice skating and stuff.
[00:02:37]  And so I couldn't really tell if there was something from it, but I could tell he liked me more than just like a hit and quit.
[00:02:44]  Cause then I like I did end up seeing him again.
[00:02:47]  Okay.
[00:02:48]  So in that month, when you say love bombing, was it like, I love you or was it like, oh, you're, you're so pretty and just like giving lots of compliments?
[00:02:57]  After I saw him the first time, after that, he started being like, I love you.
[00:03:01]  I like, you're so awesome.
[00:03:03]  Like other girls aren't like you.
[00:03:05]  Like, this is perfect.
[00:03:06]  Oh, my God.
[00:03:08]  Okay.
[00:03:09]  So, like, but before meeting him, he would just like compliment me a lot and stuff.
[00:03:14]  And so you came over.
[00:03:16]  How long did you stay?
[00:03:17]  About, I'd say like five-ish, like five or six days.
[00:03:22]  Okay.
[00:03:22]  That's a pretty good trip.
[00:03:24]  And do you mind telling me where you're from and where his place is?
[00:03:29]  Like what state?
[00:03:30]  So at the time I was living in San Francisco, California.
[00:03:34]  So I was driving, I was flying literally across the country to Portland, Maine.
[00:03:40]  And so it'd be like literally an entire day of flying.
[00:03:44]  Yeah, I imagine.
[00:03:45]  So it's probably like a what, 10, 10 hour trip in total?
[00:03:49]  At least, yeah, for sure.
[00:03:52]  Okay.
[00:03:53]  So then after five days, I guess you flew back.
[00:03:55]  And did you guys stay in contact?
[00:03:57]  Yeah, after the first time I flew back, we stayed in contact and he was like calling me a lot.
[00:04:02]  And then that's when I got the two videos of him saying night rape and talking about like holding me down and the whole Game of Thrones elf thing.
[00:04:12]  And that's a bit much hold up.
[00:04:15]  Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
[00:04:17]  How long?
[00:04:18]  Sorry, how long ago was this?
[00:04:19]  And how old were you two when this happened?
[00:04:21]  So I'm 23 now.
[00:04:22]  So I was like 20, 20, 21.
[00:04:25]  I think like 21 at that time or about to be.
[00:04:29]  And he was my age also.
[00:04:31]  Yeah, he's like 21.
[00:04:33]  Cool.
[00:04:35]  So then you guys were apart.
[00:04:38]  And these were when you got the voicemails, in particular one that you mentioned.
[00:04:44]  Was that like, let me rephrase that?
[00:04:47]  Did it feel like it was a exclusive thing after you went back to San Francisco?
[00:04:51]  Did it feel like this is a relationship and we're not seeing other people now?
[00:04:56]  Not fully that it was a relationship, but definitely, you know, the term situationship, something like that, where like it did seem like we were exclusive, especially with the way he would like talk, like at that point.
[00:05:09]  And so I wouldn't say, because that's what like, I wouldn't say we ever dated.
[00:05:12]  We were more just like a fling because I never like, he never like asked me to be his girlfriend straight out.
[00:05:19]  And then, but like, he also never like, but he would tell me he wasn't having sex with other girls and stuff.
[00:05:25]  Okay.
[00:05:26]  Um, so it was during this break where you were receiving like voice messages from him.
[00:05:34]  And I remember the one that really stuck out is he said, it's very awkward.
[00:05:39]  I'm going to try to give him the benefit of a doubt.
[00:05:41]  And I'm wondering if you can fill this in for me because it was speculated.
[00:05:45]  He says something like, there's nothing better than night rape.
[00:05:48]  And that's what it really sounds like.
[00:05:50]  Like he really puts emphasis on the P and night rape.
[00:05:53]  But it was explained to me that there is a DLC for Elden Rings called Night Rain.
[00:06:00]  And he might be referring to that.
[00:06:01]  Would you know if there's any night rape?
[00:06:04]  I don't.
[00:06:06]  Okay.
[00:06:07]  I will say that there's a reason that he said night rape, but I don't want to air out a business that is like a not known thing.
[00:06:15]  But someone else had like someone else has said night rape before.
[00:06:20]  And I guess that's like, and he very much liked it.
[00:06:23]  But he and he also was like into like CNC type stuff.
[00:06:29]  So he would use it interchangeably.
[00:06:31]  When you say CNC, you mean consensual, non-consensual, like replay?
[00:06:35]  Yeah.
[00:06:36]  Like, like we like, like from what I could tell, because like I'll, I don't want to like get ahead of myself.
[00:06:42]  So I won't explain too much at once.
[00:06:45]  But like, we'll get into like the whole dynamics later.
[00:06:49]  But it, it seemed like he would say night rape sometimes and it would give like, oh, he is about like he wants to molest me.
[00:06:59]  Or sometimes it'd be night rape and it's like, ha ha rape city, like like funny joke.
[00:07:04]  So it was like.
[00:07:06]  So I think that's there's no way that he was referring to a game.
[00:07:10]  No, no, he's not saying night rain.
[00:07:13]  And you're, and you're 100% certain of that because of context that's not in that conversation.
[00:07:19]  Yes, 100% certain.
[00:07:21]  Okay.
[00:07:22]  He's said that many of times.
[00:07:24]  During the how many times did you fly out to meet him?
[00:07:28]  Twice.

=== Strange Encounters (15:36) ===

[00:07:29]  Okay.
[00:07:29]  And before, how long, how long was the gap between the first time and the second time?
[00:07:34]  Like three-ish weeks.
[00:07:36]  Okay.
[00:07:37]  And so during that, they had the night rape message.
[00:07:40]  Was there anything else that was like that stands out in memory during that time?
[00:07:45]  He would just like text me very like vulgar, like gooner type stuff about like same things as like he was saying on the phone of like, oh, you're so small and I'm so big and I'm so strong and I and like, oh, like I'd be, I like gave you a bruise and blah, blah, blah.
[00:08:05]  Or and like he would like be like, ew, I don't even want to say these types of words.
[00:08:09]  It's so like gross to say.
[00:08:12]  But he would just, you know, like say like weird sexual things.
[00:08:16]  And like throughout the whole time waiting to like go or like before I went back.
[00:08:23]  Did it feel like the um the size difference was like a really big thing to him?
[00:08:28]  Like like he was really into yes for both of you.
[00:08:32]  Yes.
[00:08:33]  How tall is he?
[00:08:36]  About eight.
[00:08:37]  I was gonna say like, I don't know, like 5'10 at most.
[00:08:41]  Okay.
[00:08:41]  How tall are you guys?
[00:08:42]  Actually, wait, wait, this, I just know he's deadass like 5'8.
[00:08:47]  Yeah, you're right.
[00:08:48]  Because when I met him, I wore platforms and I was his height.
[00:08:51]  Okay.
[00:08:53]  So I was gonna ask, are you guys like, like five foot even or something?
[00:08:57]  I'm 5'3.
[00:09:00]  I'm like 5'5, but I'm very petite built, I guess.
[00:09:06]  Okay.
[00:09:07]  So he would just mention that a lot that you guys were like very petite and small.
[00:09:14]  Yeah.
[00:09:15]  Did he ever ask you to wear specific things?
[00:09:20]  Not like per se, but he definitely Sacramento can attest to this too, would like kind of try to push stuff onto you.
[00:09:27]  Like he would buy like specific gifts.
[00:09:29]  So like you would wear it because it's like something he bought you and it's like, and it's a gift, but it's all, but it's not like he would be like, put this on, but he would buy like weird like Hello Kitty attire and like would ask like if we were into like Hello Kitty or dolls and stuff like that.
[00:09:47]  And so I think more monster high.
[00:09:52]  Really?
[00:09:53]  Oh man.
[00:09:54]  It's because of Kai, literally.
[00:09:57]  Okay, so he was trying to find like another, like, who was into, I guess, age play.
[00:10:02]  I mean, I don't want to like just jump to that and say, like, oh, he's definitely looking for age play, but like Monster High is like, I don't want to like say, like, put the words out like that, but also at the same time, I mean, if you're looking for a bitch who's into dolls and hello kitty and velcro children's shoes, then like, yeah, that's like in the kids' aisle at Walmart.
[00:10:20]  This is the Monster High stuff.
[00:10:21]  Yeah.
[00:10:23]  Okay.
[00:10:24]  Um, so he, he would, I mean, that's what I was, I was, I was asking for, like, did he give you clothes that was like, this is like saccharine light pastels and stuff?
[00:10:34]  Yes.
[00:10:35]  For my birthday gift, he bought me a whole bunch of Hello Kitty type stuff.
[00:10:42]  Like in some of the pictures of the age player lollycon girl, um, Ellie, she's wearing these Hello Kitty pajamas, and he bought me like those exact same type of pajamas and other like stuffed animals, stuff like that.
[00:10:56]  Um, yeah, okay.
[00:10:59]  Um, so since you Katie was vaguely aware of, I guess not that even vaguely, like you knew who he was, but you say that you didn't know him at all, right?
[00:11:11]  And I'll switch back, but I have a quick question.
[00:11:14]  Did that seem out of place?
[00:11:15]  Like, you don't know this guy, and he's buying like Hello Kitty, Monster High stuff.
[00:11:19]  It's like, did that seem like weird or?
[00:11:22]  Um, I wanted to clarify that I figured out who he was like very quickly.
[00:11:27]  Um, so yeah, I knew about his online presence like pretty much as soon as we met till the end of our relationship.
[00:11:35]  But I wasn't like super into YouTube world or whatever.
[00:11:39]  So like I knew that he had a YouTube channel, but I wasn't like super into it.
[00:11:43]  But did you feel that the gifts, like the clothing and toys and stuff, were weird?
[00:11:48]  Or did it feel?
[00:11:50]  Yes.
[00:11:51]  Okay, it did.
[00:11:52]  Yes.
[00:11:53]  Like all of it?
[00:11:53]  Like the clothes too?
[00:11:54]  It was like, this is weird.
[00:11:56]  Yes, because I never expressed any like interest and like, oh, I love Hello Kitty and I want more Hello Kitty stuff.
[00:12:06]  Like, I don't know.
[00:12:08]  Okay, last question.
[00:12:08]  Then I'll, I'll switch back to the timeline.
[00:12:10]  But did you ever like deliberately express an interest?
[00:12:13]  Like, oh, I would like this as a gift and then just not get it because it didn't match like what we know now in terms of what his interests are?
[00:12:22]  I don't know.
[00:12:23]  Sorry if that's like an obtuse question.
[00:12:25]  I would say yes, Sack, because of the flower situation.
[00:12:29]  Oh my God.
[00:12:30]  The flower situation?
[00:12:31]  Yes, I did ask Tom to buy me flowers and he did not seem to understand why a woman in a relationship with a man would want flowers ever.
[00:12:44]  He actually called his mom and asked why it would be important to ever buy a woman flowers.
[00:12:50]  And that was like the only time I ever asked him for something.
[00:12:54]  But the rest of the time.
[00:12:55]  Did he call her in front of you to ask about why women like flowers?
[00:13:00]  No, but he had told me that he called her to ask why.
[00:13:05]  Yeah.
[00:13:08]  Okay.
[00:13:11]  Okay, then.
[00:13:12]  So in this gap then between the two meetups, did anything else happen?
[00:13:18]  There was another voicemail that you shared, right?
[00:13:20]  Do you remember what that was?
[00:13:22]  Yeah, that's the one that's like, because there's the night rape one, and then there's the like, oh, you're so small and I'm so big.
[00:13:30]  And like when I was holding you down, I thought I was going to break your arms.
[00:13:34]  He says something to those to like that, like something like that.
[00:13:38]  And then he compares to have like my small boobs and like having sex with me to like having sex with a fairy from Game of Thrones.
[00:13:46]  Okay, so that's another thing that I don't understand.
[00:13:49]  Maybe you guys, did you guys watch Game of Thrones?
[00:13:51]  I have not watched Girl of Thrones.
[00:13:53]  Nobody knows what he's talking about.
[00:13:54]  I saw people tweaking a little bit in the in the threads about that, like debating which girl it was.
[00:14:00]  I have no idea.
[00:14:01]  He never showed me which one he like meant or like which one came to mind.
[00:14:05]  And I also didn't ask because I was like, this is such a weird thing to say.
[00:14:09]  Aren't they all 12?
[00:14:12]  I don't even want to get into it, but there's like no clear understanding.
[00:14:16]  Nobody has any idea what that means, what he says.
[00:14:18]  He's 1400, but she's 14.
[00:14:20]  There's some, yeah, there's like an elf character that is in one of the spin-offs as a child and like is like 14 at the youngest and then is like an adult at the latest, but nobody really understands what that means.
[00:14:31]  So did so the decision to fly back and meet him.
[00:14:39]  Was that prompted by him or by you?
[00:14:41]  Him.
[00:14:43]  My birthday is in, my birthday is in March.
[00:14:46]  And so he was like, oh, you should come see me for your birthday.
[00:14:49]  Like I have to do this furry convention, but then you should come and see me.
[00:14:54]  And I was like, wait, what?
[00:14:55]  Okay.
[00:14:56]  He's, oh, because he's going.
[00:14:57]  Is that where he met Madeline or Meow Delin?
[00:15:01]  Maybe.
[00:15:02]  He just, I know he like posted a video, I think, on like Tom IRL or something of him at that furry convention.
[00:15:07]  Of him going to, and he asked you to fly back for the furry convention?
[00:15:11]  No, right after.
[00:15:12]  He was like, he was like, I'm going to go to this furry convention and then you should come see me.
[00:15:17]  Oh, okay.
[00:15:18]  That's interesting.
[00:15:19]  So before I ask about that visit, anything else from the gap that's that is interesting worth touching on?
[00:15:28]  Did he say anything weird?
[00:15:29]  I mean, I kind of went over most of it of him just being like overall like pushy and weird and like age baby almost with the like the things he would say.
[00:15:41]  Okay.
[00:15:42]  And then you fly back.
[00:15:43]  And how did that go?
[00:15:44]  How long did you go?
[00:15:45]  Horrible.
[00:15:46]  That was the worst experience of my life, I think.
[00:15:49]  Wow.
[00:15:49]  Okay.
[00:15:51]  So was that also five days?
[00:15:53]  No, I think like five days total, like of me, like I flew in and then like I stayed with him for real, for real, three days and I flew back on the fifth day.
[00:16:03]  You flew back early?
[00:16:04]  Yeah.
[00:16:05]  He actually, well, okay, when he flies girls out, he doesn't buy them a flight home.
[00:16:09]  He flies you out and then he's like, and then he's like, I'll buy your flight home when you get here.
[00:16:14]  Okay.
[00:16:15]  That's weird.
[00:16:16]  Which already, when I was like telling, that's why all my friends thought I was a victim from the jump is like he acted really weird and also would do things like that.
[00:16:23]  And so all my like normal friends were like, this is weird.
[00:16:27]  Like you're a victim right now and you're just not realizing.
[00:16:31]  And so that's like how I got all those videos.
[00:16:34]  Okay.
[00:16:34]  Cause you were, you were on edge.
[00:16:37]  You had been warned that there might be something weird going on.
[00:16:40]  Yeah.
[00:16:40]  And my friend was spending the night with me and was listening to the conversation because he would like beg to call me like every night.
[00:16:46]  And so I was like, final answer.
[00:16:48]  And she was listening and she was like, what the fuck is this man saying to you?
[00:16:54]  Okay.
[00:16:54]  So what was so terrible about the second visit?
[00:16:57]  Okay.
[00:16:57]  So fun.
[00:16:58]  This is kind of going to sound like it's like a little bit of a ramble in a sense because it's like, there's, so the dream shit, like the dream George Not Found drama was happening at the time with this girl named Katie.
[00:17:11]  And only reason I know about it is because I was at his house and he was streaming literally for two days straight, just sitting in his room, making me sit in the corner silently while he just streamed all day talking about how this bitch was like a liar and a stupid whore and like her like consent isn't real and like insane just like insanity.
[00:17:32]  And the way like, I don't even know anything about that situation.
[00:17:35]  So like, I don't know if there was like actual drama there, but just listening to how he was talking about like a girl getting molested, I was like, oh my God, no wonder he's beating me.
[00:17:45]  Like this is it.
[00:17:46]  This man is insane.
[00:17:47]  Like, and I literally ended up like not like we hung out a lot for like the first day.
[00:17:54]  And then he was like streaming a lot.
[00:17:55]  And then I literally was like nonverbal.
[00:17:57]  Even when he wasn't streaming, we like were barely talking.
[00:18:00]  He told me I was a second body.
[00:18:02]  And then the like the first time I went and saw him, he told me I was the second girl he had sex with.
[00:18:06]  And then the second time I went and saw him, he, he made me watch the show you and about like the crazy stalker or whatever and from Netflix.
[00:18:17]  And he was like, oh, this girl's such a whore.
[00:18:20]  Like I've only had sex with four people.
[00:18:22]  And I was like, four people?
[00:18:25]  You, you told, you told me you weren't fucking nobody else and you had sex with, I was your second, what?
[00:18:30]  I was like, huh?
[00:18:31]  And so that was like kind of like one of the things where I was like, okay, I'm like, I mean, I wasn't too hung up about that because like I take everything with a grain of salt if someone's like a fucking internet personality.
[00:18:42]  Like I'm not gonna like be too hung up.
[00:18:45]  But I was like, oh, this man's a whore.
[00:18:48]  And also this man's insane because he's probably beating all these women.
[00:18:52]  Okay.
[00:18:53]  So to rewind, you land, you're back in Portland.
[00:18:56]  This is the second time you're meeting him.
[00:18:58]  Yes.
[00:18:58]  You land and he immediately just like, like Kaya places you, puts you in a corner of his room.
[00:19:05]  Is there like anything that happened?
[00:19:07]  We hang out for like, we hang out for like a, for like a couple hours.
[00:19:10]  And then he's like, I'm sorry, but there's hot, like, literally like, there's hot goss on the market.
[00:19:15]  I've got to scream.
[00:19:18]  Who was it about?
[00:19:19]  The streams?
[00:19:20]  It was like Minecraft YouTubers.
[00:19:22]  And I guess one of them had just like gotten outed for like touching another girl.
[00:19:26]  And so I was there for when two mad died too.
[00:19:30]  And it was insane.
[00:19:32]  That was also horrible.
[00:19:35]  So for literally the entirety of two days, did he specifically ask that you do not like roam about the complex?
[00:19:43]  Did he like say you have to be here with me for this time?
[00:19:47]  Well, like he would have, he would be like, oh, sit with me.
[00:19:49]  And then I would be trapped in the room because you can see the door and he doesn't want people to know there's a woman in his house.
[00:19:56]  And so, and so he would, and so I would just be like stuck in the corner because I'd be there when it would start.
[00:20:02]  And then he would just be streaming and then I'm just trapped.
[00:20:06]  And he didn't, he didn't allow you to like have any presence on the stream.
[00:20:09]  So you're just in this room and you can't walk past him because it's in front of the camera.
[00:20:12]  No.
[00:20:13]  Yeah, no.
[00:20:13]  And like, yeah, literally no.
[00:20:16]  That's very bizarre.
[00:20:20]  Because it's like, you can watch the stream.
[00:20:22]  You could just go out to the other room and watch the stream if he insisted.
[00:20:26]  Right.
[00:20:26]  Like, and also like, I don't give a fuck about these Minecraft YouTubers.
[00:20:30]  Like, why me?
[00:20:33]  So it was just like, it was, he was, for one, even more aggressive the second time I went and saw him.
[00:20:39]  And then he like barely spoke to me and was streaming most of the time.
[00:20:43]  And then when he tried to speak to me, he was just like saying stupid stuff.
[00:20:48]  He like and like told me about having sex with two other girls and just was just like insufferable.
[00:20:55]  So I was having a horrible time.
[00:20:58]  And I also was convinced he had ringworm before he even had it because I'm looking at his body and I see like marks and I'm like, this looks like ringworm.
[00:21:06]  I'm not like this.
[00:21:07]  I don't want to touch this man.
[00:21:08]  This looks like ringworm.
[00:21:10]  And so it here, were you going to say something?
[00:21:14]  Yeah, I was going to ask, is this the time that he got the fungal infection?
[00:21:18]  Yes.
[00:21:19]  Because this was immediately after the furry convention, right?
[00:21:22]  Yes.
[00:21:23]  And he told me that he thinks he got it from the gym, but he like would shower after going to the gym from like, at least when I was there.
[00:21:33]  And so like, maybe he was doing that to keep up appearances.
[00:21:37]  But like, I feel like he probably, like, it's, it was very weird that he got it right after going to a furry convention.
[00:21:44]  Yeah, it takes four to 14 days, Google says, for a ringworm to appear.
[00:21:48]  So that sounds right.
[00:21:50]  About, because I think he did the, he did the furry convention either like late February or early March.
[00:21:56]  And then I saw him like around like March 10th-ish or something like that.
[00:22:03]  Okay.
[00:22:04]  So, so I mean, he could have been telling the truth both times, theoretically.
[00:22:09]  He could have had sex with two different furries at the convention and gotten ringworm.
[00:22:14]  True.
[00:22:15]  That's my, that's my working theory so far on why that would happen.
[00:22:21]  Um, okay, so what, uh, so you were there, you hang out on the first day for just a little bit and then the hot gossips.
[00:22:28]  And then you're on the mattress, I guess, based on the layout of his room, waiting for him to stop, stop streaming.
[00:22:34]  And then I'm on a little bean bag, but yeah.
[00:22:37]  Okay.
[00:22:38]  And then after two days of this, you ask him to fly you back because you're just bored?
[00:22:44]  No, he realizes that things aren't like, I'm obviously weirded out by him.
[00:22:50]  And I'm also concerned that he has ringworm.
[00:22:53]  And so he flies me out the day before my birthday.
[00:22:58]  Oh, wow.
[00:22:59]  Okay.
[00:23:00]  So you fly up for your birthday and you don't even get to your birthday before you're being flown back.

=== Never Even Got To Birthday (07:29) ===

[00:23:05]  No, which honestly, it was a blessing.
[00:23:07]  I think I would have died if I spent my birthday with him, but or yeah.
[00:23:12]  Okay.
[00:23:13]  So in between the hot goss sessions, you had sex with him, right?
[00:23:19]  Yeah.
[00:23:20]  Okay.
[00:23:21]  And during, during that, he was like violent, right?
[00:23:26]  Yeah.
[00:23:26]  And that's kind of like when things really started piecing together to me that I was like, Blade, I think I am a victim right now.
[00:23:32]  Like something's not right here.
[00:23:34]  And that's when I started like voicing my concern more to him too, it like in the bedroom and being like, Can you not do that?
[00:23:41]  And he kind of would just like take everything with a grain of salt.
[00:23:44]  So the first time that you flew up, there was none of this, no, no, no issues.
[00:23:49]  It was just like vanilla?
[00:23:50]  No, he was still like aggressive, but like I was just like, you know, maybe he's just like gooner pilled and like has only seen like BDSM porn.
[00:23:58]  And so he's like, thinks that this is normal.
[00:24:01]  But when you say aggressive, is it just like, like, I don't know, a little bit forceful versus like no, like still smacking and like smacking and like causing bleeding and like too rough.
[00:24:13]  And like, cause also he like, this is like TMI, but like since he can't come, you like sessions, you would be trapped with him for like an hour.
[00:24:23]  And also, so like, no matter what, you're going to end up like dry at one point.
[00:24:30]  And then he would just like not care and keep going.
[00:24:34]  Did you ever ask him, like, can you get lube or something?
[00:24:37]  Yes.
[00:24:37]  And like, or literally, at one point, we even like, I made him go and buy some and we, he still never used it.
[00:24:43]  He probably used it the goon.
[00:24:46]  So you literally told him, use lube, and he just ignored you and kept plowing away, basically.
[00:24:52]  Yeah, near.
[00:24:52]  Or like, literally, like, try to add spit.
[00:24:55]  Oh, okay.
[00:24:56]  Okay.
[00:24:58]  And okay.
[00:24:59]  And then he would notice the blood.
[00:25:01]  Like, there's no way you don't notice the blood.
[00:25:04]  I mean, literally, he would like wipe his like dick off on a rag and it would be like like tinged red.
[00:25:12]  And he never even like batted an eye or said anything.
[00:25:14]  He never even mentioned it.
[00:25:15]  Like, oh, look, there's blood in this?
[00:25:17]  No.
[00:25:19]  Did you ever see him use cocaine?
[00:25:22]  I didn't, but he told me that he's done, that he used to do a lot of Coke.
[00:25:27]  And like when I, before I went to fly out to see him the first time, he like texted me one night or one day and he was like, sorry, I just woke up.
[00:25:34]  Like I did a lot of, I drank a lot and like did a lot of Coke last night.
[00:25:38]  And he blocked me on Instagram, but I might, I might be able to see the message at some point.
[00:25:43]  But he said that.
[00:25:45]  And then when I was at his house, he was talking about abusing Adderall that he got from Kai from like their past relationship.
[00:25:54]  And that, so he still had Adderall from Kai?
[00:25:57]  Yeah.
[00:25:58]  Because I guess like he had like bought, like, cause she had like a, she had like an overstock, I guess, because he had like three bottles at least that had her name on it.
[00:26:06]  Really?
[00:26:07]  And he was doing this while you were there?
[00:26:09]  Yeah.
[00:26:10]  Okay.
[00:26:11]  Um, so timeline of this.
[00:26:14]  It's he comes home from the furry convention.
[00:26:16]  You hang out for a few hours.
[00:26:18]  He gets the call from his discord that's like, you got, you got work to do.
[00:26:21]  There's some drama.
[00:26:23]  He then puts you in a bean bag and tells you, don't speak or move or enter line of sight of my camera because nobody can know I have women over at my apartment.
[00:26:33]  And then he does Adderall and has sex with you for an hour because he's high on Adderall and it causes you to bleed.
[00:26:41]  He ignores direct, explicit instruction to do things that are less painful and gives you ringworm that he probably got at the furry convention.
[00:26:53]  And after two days of this, you're like, fly me back.
[00:26:57]  This sucks.
[00:26:58]  Except I did, I never even said fly me back.
[00:27:00]  I was just like, I hope I get, I go home soon.
[00:27:02]  Like, I don't know when he's going to fly me home.
[00:27:04]  He hasn't even brought it up.
[00:27:05]  I like, this is so awkward.
[00:27:08]  Like, I'm not, again, I was like non-verbal and like not speaking to him, Loki, because I was like, so uncomfortable.
[00:27:14]  So there's like a bad vibe that was just like obvious.
[00:27:16]  Yeah, it was like evil vibe.
[00:27:19]  And so I think he could kind of pick up on that.
[00:27:21]  So then he sent me home.
[00:27:23]  Yeah, it's, it's really obvious when there's like static and you're like the only two people in like a room and it's just like a terrible static.
[00:27:29]  And you're trapped in an apartment that's in a basement.
[00:27:32]  Yeah, something like that.
[00:27:36]  So let's see.
[00:27:39]  Was there anything else?
[00:27:41]  You said that you both said that he non-consensually began to record you guys having sex.
[00:27:48]  Was this both times that you saw him?
[00:27:51]  Yeah, every single, literally every single time we had sex, he recorded it.
[00:27:56]  And I, and he never asked, literally just one time, I like looked back and I was like, oh, that's a phone.
[00:28:02]  And then one time he, the only time he ever came was, this is like, this is so funny, but the only time he ever came was we had sex and then he proceeds to be like, wait, I need to come.
[00:28:15]  Gets me, like gets, gets off me.
[00:28:17]  And then just literally in front, like damn near on top of me in front of me, I'm like trapped under him still.
[00:28:23]  He starts watching the video he just recorded and jerking it.
[00:28:26]  And I was like, what the fuck is happening?
[00:28:29]  That was like also kind of an awakening.
[00:28:32]  I was like, what?
[00:28:33]  I was like, oh, he's got, like, he's got death grip.
[00:28:35]  What is happening?
[00:28:39]  So this is like the second day of the second meetup.
[00:28:42]  He's like, this ain't working.
[00:28:44]  I gotta, I gotta watch my own masterpiece here that I just, that I literally just recorded.
[00:28:49]  Literally.
[00:28:50]  Like literally had, like, yeah, just recorded like moments ago.
[00:28:54]  Okay.
[00:28:55]  Wow.
[00:28:57]  Were you the one that said if you flexed in the mirror after sex, I would, I would shoot myself?
[00:29:03]  No, that was her, but he did that with me too.
[00:29:06]  And also the, like, I noticed when we would have sex, he had a mirror in his room.
[00:29:10]  And it literally did he literally do the Patrick Bateman thing?
[00:29:13]  Yeah, I was going to say, oh my God.
[00:29:15]  Like, literally, that's why I call him a Patrick Bateman type gooner.
[00:29:18]  Cause for one, he's like psychotic low-key and he dead ass did that shit.
[00:29:21]  And I swear he like, he must like live by how Patrick Bateman lives low-key.
[00:29:26]  Cause like I watched him do that and I was like, oh, this isn't normal.
[00:29:28]  Like this, this, something's wrong.
[00:29:31]  So, I mean, would you say that he's like actually trying to replicate the scene?
[00:29:35]  Like it's just the exact same thing.
[00:29:37]  I, I mean, damn near.
[00:29:39]  Like, I don't want to like put the, like, say, like, that he, like, is literally replicating the scene, but I just like, it literally felt like that.
[00:29:45]  I like looked up, saw he was looking in the mirror, just staring at himself, like flexing his muscle.
[00:29:51]  And this was like not discussed at all.
[00:29:54]  Like, there was no two-way conversation about sex or we never had any conversation really about like kinks or like what we were into, like, other than like bare minimums of like, of like, yeah, I, I, like, I don't, yeah, I don't even, we never even had like any bare minimum talk about sex.
[00:30:14]  It was just like, do you want to have sex?
[00:30:16]  Okay.
[00:30:17]  Okay.
[00:30:17]  And the few times you would say anything about like, that's too far, it was just like completely not like, did he react at all?
[00:30:24]  Did he say anything?
[00:30:25]  Was it just like, not really.
[00:30:26]  He would be like, he'd be like, my bad, maybe like fix how he's acting for like two seconds and then do it again.
[00:30:33]  Okay.

=== Caught Red-Handed (15:37) ===

[00:30:35]  Um, okay, I can't think of anything else.
[00:30:38]  Is there anything else memorable that you remember from the second encounter?
[00:30:42]  Um, not much.
[00:30:44]  He was texting Miaudalin during the, when I met, like during the second meeting, I also noticed that when we were watching you, I like people.
[00:30:52]  Yeah, and people may not be aware.
[00:30:54]  Myodolin is a woman that he met at a he met in real life and she's like a 24-7 LARPer of like a dog.
[00:31:03]  Yeah, she's like a puppy girl.
[00:31:05]  And I was suspect of her just because I mean, she looked like OnlyFans type.
[00:31:09]  So I was like, hmm.
[00:31:11]  And she was also a dog.
[00:31:14]  When you say OnlyFans type, you're referring to like the blush and the makeup?
[00:31:19]  I guess.
[00:31:20]  And like, it's like, you know, like that.
[00:31:22]  Yeah, I guess.
[00:31:23]  And like e-girl type like that.
[00:31:26]  Okay.
[00:31:27]  Okay.
[00:31:27]  That makes sense.
[00:31:29]  Do you mind if I show the picture of, because after you flew back, you got the like the ringworm was like visible.
[00:31:37]  Do you like mind if I show that?
[00:31:38]  Yeah.
[00:31:39]  Yeah, that's fine.
[00:31:40]  Okay.
[00:31:41]  So how one photo.
[00:31:45]  Oh, sorry.
[00:31:46]  You go first.
[00:31:46]  No, I was just going to ask, how long after you flew back did it, did it show up?
[00:31:52]  Prop within like a week.
[00:31:54]  Like I think like.
[00:31:56]  Within four to 14 days?
[00:31:58]  Yeah, within four to 14 days.
[00:31:59]  Yeah, it was like within like five days.
[00:32:03]  Cause I was like fine on my birthday.
[00:32:05]  And then a couple of days after that, like literally, because there's a picture of the bruise on my face and right under it is what is ringworm.
[00:32:14]  Luckily, that's the only little spot I ever got since I went to the doctor immediately, but unlike him.
[00:32:21]  Okay, so that's like, that's very unfortunate.
[00:32:25]  That's like a vicarious, furry strain of ringworm.
[00:32:29]  I know.
[00:32:29]  I've got, that's what I am like, after I heard that he maybe was like hooking up with the age player around the same time as me and also was going to the furry convention.
[00:32:39]  I was like, I'm so happy that I like didn't end up with like scurvy, something insane and like old world.
[00:32:54]  So, okay.
[00:32:55]  So then after this, was it the second or third night?
[00:32:59]  We're like the last night that you spent together?
[00:33:02]  The third night was the last night we spent together.
[00:33:05]  Okay.
[00:33:05]  So after the third night, you realize like the vibe is weird.
[00:33:09]  The sex is not getting any better.
[00:33:11]  And I don't want to be here anymore.
[00:33:13]  And he just said, you want to go home?
[00:33:15]  And you were like, yeah.
[00:33:16]  And then he just booked a same day flight back to.
[00:33:18]  He didn't say you want to go home.
[00:33:19]  He was just like, I got your flight.
[00:33:21]  I'm going to go to the next one.
[00:33:22]  Here's your ticket.
[00:33:24]  Wow.
[00:33:25]  Was there no, was there like a goodbye?
[00:33:27]  Was it any sentimental?
[00:33:29]  It was just get out of here.
[00:33:30]  He was still nice to me.
[00:33:31]  Like when I left, he was like, bye, I'll see you again.
[00:33:34]  Blah, blah, blah.
[00:33:35]  Like, good to see you.
[00:33:36]  Sorry, I was so busy.
[00:33:38]  And I was like, yeah, okay.
[00:33:41]  I'm not going to see you again.
[00:33:43]  Okay.
[00:33:44]  And then that was in 2024 or five?
[00:33:50]  Yeah, 2024.
[00:33:52]  So did you have any encounter with him after that?
[00:33:57]  We still followed each other on Instagram for like a year.
[00:34:00]  And I didn't want to be the first one to unfollow him.
[00:34:02]  So I would just kind of, and he like didn't post like that.
[00:34:04]  So I'd never see anything of his.
[00:34:05]  So I was just kind of like waiting for him to unfollow me because it was weird because we like kind of like I just told him I like didn't think it was going to work and I kind of thought it was like weird and it just wasn't really fucking with what was happening.
[00:34:19]  And he was like, okay, cool.
[00:34:21]  And so we like stopped talking and it was like, whatever.
[00:34:24]  And, but, and he would like memes I post periodically or like a random photo, like maybe like three times after we talked.
[00:34:32]  But like otherwise we didn't really like talk too much.
[00:34:36]  Okay.
[00:34:37]  So then that is March 2024.
[00:34:41]  When Sacramento, when did you meet him?
[00:34:44]  I met him May 10th of 2025.
[00:34:49]  May 10th.
[00:34:50]  So more than a full year later.
[00:34:52]  And you met him on Tinder, right?
[00:34:56]  Yes.
[00:34:57]  Okay.
[00:34:58]  Right off the bat, real quick, one of the things that a lot of people who are on his side, like in the YouTube sphere, said, is that you had a screenshot of you matching with Tom.
[00:35:09]  And they said that was strange because in your story, you said you did not know him before you met up, but you took a picture of the match.
[00:35:18]  Is there a reason for that?
[00:35:20]  Yeah, I took a picture of the match because I could kind of tell there was like something weird about this guy.
[00:35:26]  Like I didn't know if he was famous or whatever.
[00:35:28]  And also, I did that to other people as well on Tinder.
[00:35:33]  Just like everybody you matched with to like gossip with, like girlfriends?
[00:35:37]  Yeah, like a couple of them.
[00:35:39]  But yeah, he seemed like kind of weird.
[00:35:41]  So I took, yeah, I took pictures of our match.
[00:35:44]  What about his like bio?
[00:35:46]  Was like, oh, I gotta, I gotta document this in case I go missing or something.
[00:35:50]  Like, what's to notice weird?
[00:35:53]  He was like covering his face a lot in the pictures.
[00:35:57]  Oh.
[00:35:58]  There was like, there was something really off about him.
[00:36:01]  So yeah.
[00:36:03]  And then I can kind of clarify on our first date, he did.
[00:36:07]  I obviously figured out who he was really fucking quick, but he continued to lie to me about what he did for a living.
[00:36:16]  And yeah.
[00:36:19]  What did he say?
[00:36:20]  He told me he did like video editing or like videography.
[00:36:24]  Okay.
[00:36:26]  So what when you interacted with him, I remember I saw some screenshots of your text messages.
[00:36:33]  And if I remember correctly, he said something literally to the effect of don't look up who I am or something.
[00:36:39]  Yeah.
[00:36:40]  Was that before or after you got weirded?
[00:36:42]  Where did I buy him and ask questions?
[00:36:44]  That was like during when I started asking questions about him because I started getting really suspicious, especially after the whole Ellie thing happened.
[00:36:54]  Because he was still following a bunch of e-girls who like I kind of figured out that he had slept with before and I was getting more sus.
[00:37:04]  And so I ended up looking him up and I told him like, hey, I looked you up and I found some weird shit about you.
[00:37:10]  Like just giving him a chance to explain it himself.
[00:37:13]  But instead of explaining himself, he ended up just getting really mad at me for even looking.
[00:37:20]  Okay.
[00:37:20]  So you were just you, why did you match him then if you felt he was so weird?
[00:37:28]  Because he did, he had big muscles and like I could tell that like he was he also did hide his face.
[00:37:36]  I mean, if we're being honest, he's not the most like facially gifted person, but yeah.
[00:37:41]  It like piqued your interest.
[00:37:42]  Like I have to know what this guy looks like if he's like a zero out of 10 troglodyte or like really handsome but shy.
[00:37:48]  Is that the gist?
[00:37:48]  Yeah, I guess so.
[00:37:50]  And I did figure out who he was like very quickly after matching.
[00:37:53]  So.
[00:37:54]  Okay.
[00:37:57]  So I guess after you guys matched, how long was it before you're like, I have to figure out this guy's dating history?
[00:38:04]  Let me check his Instagram.
[00:38:08]  It was during when the whole Ellie scenario started happening when I started getting suspicious.
[00:38:14]  And I looked through everything and he had told me that he had like flown out some girls before.
[00:38:20]  So I was, I started being like, hmm, this is very interesting.
[00:38:24]  And I started looking in his following and I found all these like e-girls.
[00:38:28]  I actually saw Katie and I even asked him about Katie and he was like, oh, that was just like some girl that I dated or whatever.
[00:38:35]  Okay.
[00:38:37]  But so he's trying to hide his identity.
[00:38:40]  Sorry, were you guys like near each other or was this a long distance thing?
[00:38:45]  Because he's in Maine, but you're in Texas, right?
[00:38:48]  Actually, so to clarify that, he moved to Texas about a week before we matched on Tinder.
[00:38:56]  And he's still in Texas right now.
[00:38:58]  Okay.
[00:38:58]  So he moved from, that's a long move, from Maine to Texas.
[00:39:02]  And then is like, okay, I got to get into the Tinder scene right away.
[00:39:06]  I got to establish roots here.
[00:39:08]  Meet you.
[00:39:09]  And then if he's trying to hide his career and like his identity, why did he like add you on social media from his like Turkey Tom accounts?
[00:39:20]  That was after I figured out who he was.
[00:39:23]  I figured out who he was like maybe like a like as like during our first date.
[00:39:28]  So yeah.
[00:39:29]  How?
[00:39:31]  Because I this is kind of a funny story, but he was living in like a literal mansion.
[00:39:36]  And so I pulled up and I was like, what the hell?
[00:39:41]  And I kind of was like really suspicious about him.
[00:39:44]  And then I saw that he had like a bunch of Turkey Tom like merchandise everywhere.
[00:39:48]  And I was like, okay, well, I know who you are.
[00:39:56]  She found the Turkey Tom plush box in the closet and looked him up.
[00:40:01]  Is that what it was?
[00:40:02]  It's like he has like a box of these in the closet, right?
[00:40:04]  Of like unsold plushies.
[00:40:06]  Yeah, he will, he had like Turkey Tom stickers and like various like stop gooning and all of his like merch.
[00:40:14]  His room was such a mess, he would just have like shit thrown about.
[00:40:18]  So that's how I kind of saw everything.
[00:40:20]  I wish I had a full picture I could share of this.
[00:40:23]  Don't try to do it because you might mess up the call, but your avatar on Discord is just a picture of you with like your hat pulled down and the hat is the stop gooning hat.
[00:40:33]  Like it's like a like a Trump hat with all impact stop gooning, which is very apropos.
[00:40:39]  But so that's so funny that he's like, okay, I have to conceal who I am because I don't want these women to find out about my internet empire.
[00:40:48]  And then he just leaves the Turkey Tom plushies and stickers like scattered around his room.
[00:40:53]  Yeah, I thought that was very interesting.
[00:40:56]  How did you because the forum, we don't have like a really good search prominence anymore because Google has like taken us down a bunch in terms of prominence.
[00:41:05]  How did you go from knowing about Turkey Tom the YouTuber defining the forum?
[00:41:11]  I believe I was just looking up like his real name and also like Turkey Tom cheating.
[00:41:19]  I think that's how it came up.
[00:41:22]  That's that's so funny that you're just like normie searching like, okay, does Turkey Tom cheat?
[00:41:27]  And there's just like this forum thread about it because of Kai.
[00:41:32]  Okay.
[00:41:33]  So you told him on the first date that you had already figured out who he is and he didn't just like immediately like cut contact there like uh-oh.
[00:41:44]  No, he continued to talk to me.
[00:41:47]  I mean, obviously we dated for like seven months after that.
[00:41:50]  So yeah, he knew that I knew who he was at that point.
[00:41:53]  But like I wasn't like really researching.
[00:41:56]  I like, I mean, I looked at what his channel was and I was like, oh, okay, he does like documentaries, like whatever.
[00:42:02]  But I didn't really look into him that hard until later.
[00:42:06]  Okay.
[00:42:08]  Did he seem worried that you knew?
[00:42:12]  I think so.
[00:42:13]  I think that he was more worried after the fact when I started looking into him.
[00:42:20]  That's when he started springing out at me.
[00:42:23]  Okay.
[00:42:24]  And how long was that until the relationship?
[00:42:28]  I started getting sus maybe like four months into it.
[00:42:32]  Because that's kind of what.
[00:42:35]  Sorry when you say Sus, what was it?
[00:42:36]  That was like okay, I have to do more research.
[00:42:38]  Now I know who he is, but I have to like figure out, like his history because I at that point I had seen um, I figured out who the girl he was texting was was like this, like really weird girl who dressed like a kid, and so I was like okay, this is like very alarming.
[00:42:56]  I need to go and research him immediately.
[00:42:59]  And he was, was just, did you like see this on his computer?
[00:43:03]  Was he like on his phone with this person, like looking at her instagram a lot, or he was, he was texting her and I saw like her, her name and her contact photo.
[00:43:13]  Uh match, like what she looked like on instagram.
[00:43:17]  Okay, and if, if I remember correctly, this is Ellie who is like an age player on instagram and she's since like dyed her hair red and looks a lot like, or tries to like dress up like Kai.
[00:43:33]  Is that right?
[00:43:34]  I, I think I have a picture of her on the stream, but I I don't.
[00:43:37]  I'm trying to make sure I got this right.
[00:43:40]  I'm not sure if she dresses like Kai, but she definitely likes to dress like a kid and I saw some people on Kiwi Farms posting that she's been exposed for publicly being a lollycon and doing age play.
[00:43:56]  So i'm really like not surprised based on everything i've seen.
[00:44:00]  Okay, so you just saw, saw him creeping on her instagram, or was he like talking to her?
[00:44:06]  He was texting her okay, he was doing this a lot, to the point where you could like catch him out on it multiple times yes, and when you caught him out and this was four months in right um yeah okay, and when you, you caught him out on this um, what was his explanation?
[00:44:26]  Oh, he would, he would say so much bullshit.
[00:44:28]  Was like, oh well, I was, or she was, hacked and my nudes are getting leaked, like I just I have to talk to her.
[00:44:34]  Like I wouldn't, I like I wouldn't talk to her if I didn't have to, and I was like okay, okay.
[00:44:41]  But this was when he explained that um, he was being like sex sorted right yes, and so I kind of gave him the benefit of the doubt and I was like okay well, maybe he is just talking to her a bunch because you know he's being hacked and like he's scared, but okay.
[00:44:59]  so just to clarify, because I I didn't explain too well, but when you caught him out on this, he explained to you in text messages that he had previously, before your relationship, been sending her nudes and she had been hacked and both of their nudes were leaked and the extortionist was sending um pictures of his penis to his family and threatening him to post it online unless he gave him money, right?
[00:45:28]  Yeah, that's exactly what happened, and so his, his explanation for why he was texting her during your relationship, in your presence, like right next to you, was that he has to sort out what to do with Ellie because she's involved.
[00:45:41]  Yeah okay um, did that ever resolve or did you continue?
[00:45:46]  Continue to like catch her talking to, or catch him talking to her throughout like the remainder of the relationship?
[00:45:52]  Um, he ended up telling me that she like reached out to him again but and was trying to, I guess, kind of rekindle things with him, but he told her that he has a girlfriend and to stop talking to him, but that was like months after the original incident.
[00:46:10]  So that's why I was like what?

=== Did It Ever Resolve? (12:58) ===

[00:46:12]  Okay um, how often did you did you see him like overall?
[00:46:17]  Like did you just see him like once a week throughout the entire relationship?
[00:46:21]  Yeah, pretty much because I'm in college and we we're like medium distance.
[00:46:26]  He lives like an hour and a half away from me so okay, and that never changed.
[00:46:31]  You never like, moved in together or anything.
[00:46:33]  No okay um, did anything before you caught him texting Ellie in those first four months, because you were with him for seven months in total, right.
[00:46:45]  So, like four before, three after, in the first four months, was there anything like strange or weird or like red flag?
[00:46:54]  Um well, that's when he bought me the Hello Kitty merchandise and he would.
[00:47:00]  He would talk about how his ex-girlfriend Kai, kind of like ruined his perception of love and he doesn't know if he'll ever be able to love anyone again, and also just told her that, told me that the?
[00:47:13]  Um, the relationship was terrible and um, the first few times we had been sexual together, he never hit me, but the hitting did start pretty soon into our relationship and he never asked me if that I was okay with it or like, asked me for permission.
[00:47:34]  He would just start hitting me.
[00:47:37]  So okay, there's two things there.
[00:47:39]  Um Katie, real quick, when you were talking to him, would he ever bring up Kai, like for no reason, to start talking about?
[00:47:47]  He told me I looked like Kai.
[00:47:48]  He asked me if I liked monster high dogs because of Kai and said like, oh well, my ex-girlfriend liked them and like.
[00:47:56]  And then again, like I went through, I went through his closet and he had like an entire like, like at least like six items that were all like girl shirts from hot topic of, like Invader Zim and shit like that, and I was like what the fuck are these?
[00:48:09]  And he was like those are my ex-girlfriends, I just haven't gotten rid of them.
[00:48:13]  And then Rowan said that he still had that shit when he moved, so he just kept her clothes.
[00:48:19]  Okay, that's a little bit weird.
[00:48:20]  Yeah so, like he brought her up multiple times though, especially to me, because I like I talked to him right after they broke up and like it was, and he told yeah again, he told me I looked like her, like everything, and like told me multiple times like oh, you remind me of Kai.
[00:48:35]  He told you multiple times that you looked like his ex yes, and that you acted like his ex yes, even though we like he would ask me if I was into things and it was obvious that he was asking because Kai would like them, and then he would get like a little sad when he when I would be like no wow that's, that's.
[00:48:57]  That's what a stupid thing to say to a woman.
[00:49:01]  Um did, did Sacramento?
[00:49:04]  Did you hear anything like that?
[00:49:05]  Did he ever compare you to Kai?
[00:49:07]  Um, he would be.
[00:49:09]  He basically said that um, like my parents would love you because you're nothing like Kai and he kind of would like ask me questions to see if we had similar hobbies.
[00:49:23]  But he was basically basically I was referred to as his first quote, unquote normal girlfriend that didn't have BPD.
[00:49:34]  Okay Um, did you ever feel like he was like training himself?
[00:49:41]  Like, okay, I'm gonna have like a normal relationship now.
[00:49:43]  I'm gonna try to, it really felt like that.
[00:49:47]  Yeah, all the time.
[00:49:48]  I felt like he was so used to like BPD bitches that I guess I'm somewhat normal and he didn't really know how to like act because I wasn't constantly being like, I love you so much.
[00:49:59]  Like, I want to spend the rest of my day, my days with you.
[00:50:02]  Like, I wasn't kind of doing the BPD behaviors.
[00:50:06]  And so, I think he was like, oh, like, this is weird.
[00:50:10]  I'm not being like suffocated in this relationship.
[00:50:13]  What do we do?
[00:50:13]  Do we just sit here and like do our own things?
[00:50:16]  Did he feel like in unease because there was like silence and time?
[00:50:22]  Or like, what did he specifically do that was like, I feel like I'm being, I'm being like tested on.
[00:50:29]  I'm being like trained on.
[00:50:31]  Um, I feel like he, I don't know, he just wasn't used to having like a girl not be like up his ass and like worshiping him because he's famous.
[00:50:41]  And so, I think it kind of had like an ego blow for him.
[00:50:45]  And that's why he was so like rough towards me.
[00:50:50]  Did you?
[00:50:52]  I mean, did you feel like he was like particularly aggressive because he was upset or something?
[00:50:57]  Um, sometimes, yes.
[00:50:59]  And I can attest to this.
[00:51:01]  Um, after Kai went on a live stream with uh Liam, the guy that she cheated on Tom with, Tom freaked the fuck out and came to come see me and was the most aggressive he had ever been towards me because of that situation.
[00:51:17]  And I think that is the same time that I told my roommate about how aggressive he had been.
[00:51:25]  Okay, so were you aware that this stream had happened, that he was upset about it?
[00:51:30]  Yes, because he told me that that was the reason why he was upset.
[00:51:35]  How long into the relationship was this?
[00:51:38]  Um, that happened in October.
[00:51:41]  So, I guess, oh my gosh, um, when did we meet?
[00:51:47]  So, like, maybe like four or five months into it.
[00:51:50]  Okay, um, but you said he started really, really early, right?
[00:51:55]  Like, like after a couple times you met him, he would just start like hitting you, like slapping you, like in the face, yeah, like, yeah, during sex.
[00:52:02]  Yeah, he wouldn't, he never discussed it with me that this was going to be a thing.
[00:52:06]  He would just start so just no warning, he just started slapping you in the face.
[00:52:10]  Yes, did you like tell him like I'm not okay with this?
[00:52:14]  I told him a couple times, I was like, Why did you slap me?
[00:52:17]  And he's like, Oh, like, I just, I thought you liked that.
[00:52:19]  And I was like, I don't know, like not really my thing.
[00:52:24]  And then he would continue to do it to me after the fact.
[00:52:28]  Okay.
[00:52:28]  Did you ever like explicitly say no in certain terms?
[00:52:31]  Don't do that.
[00:52:32]  Um, no, because usually it was in the middle of sex, and then he would be covering my mouth, so I couldn't say no.
[00:52:39]  Okay.
[00:52:40]  Oh, so he's like covering your mouth.
[00:52:42]  Did you ever like try to like break away from his grip?
[00:52:45]  Um, yeah, and he would Just like pull me harder, okay.
[00:52:51]  But then after that, you would like complain to friends privately, but you didn't like sit them down and say, I'm not okay with this, yeah.
[00:52:59]  Okay, um, so the time that he was particularly rough after um, the Kai interview, uh, did did like the sex feel like anonymous, like did it seem like he was trying to like not look at you in the process?
[00:53:15]  I don't know if that makes sense or if what I'm getting at doesn't make sense, but yes, because this is very, very graphic, and I'm sorry, but um, he basically would throw me onto the bed and shove my face down so I couldn't say anything and and like just repeatedly like have sex with me.
[00:53:39]  And so I was basically just like laying there while he did that to me and would hold my head down really hard.
[00:53:46]  Okay, and would this also last for like an hour, like each time?
[00:53:50]  Yeah, it would last pretty long.
[00:53:52]  Okay, and you would bleed the same and you didn't stop, yeah.
[00:53:57]  I would bleed almost every time because it would last so long that there's like there's like no arousal after yeah, how long okay.
[00:54:05]  Um, and like with the lube, did you ever say like you have to use lube because this is painful?
[00:54:11]  Um, he did get lube at one point, but he only used it like once.
[00:54:16]  And he said that he would just use it to jerk off usually.
[00:54:23]  Wow.
[00:54:24]  Um, okay, so he how early into the relationship did you notice that he was filming you without without discussing it?
[00:54:36]  Um, this had to be like over the summer.
[00:54:39]  I'm not sure of an exact date, but maybe like two or three months into our relationship, he would like he never asked me.
[00:54:47]  He would just pull out his phone and record.
[00:54:51]  And I wouldn't notice until maybe 30 seconds and a minute or a minute into it.
[00:54:57]  And what really concerned me about this is that I was like, you know what?
[00:55:02]  Okay, like he's just filming me drink sex, but I had asked him multiple times if he could please send me the videos.
[00:55:09]  So like he's not the only one who has videos of me naked.
[00:55:14]  And he either ignored the question or was just like, no.
[00:55:19]  So he's how many times did you ask?
[00:55:22]  Maybe like three or four times.
[00:55:24]  And that was, that was all after the four-month thing, right?
[00:55:31]  Because I remember that you mentioned that you were trying to get the videos because you were trying to get like afraid of him and he just wouldn't give it to you.
[00:55:39]  Yes.
[00:55:41]  Did you ever feel afraid to leave him?
[00:55:46]  I did.
[00:55:47]  I did.
[00:55:47]  I was scared to leave him because of the videos.
[00:55:51]  And I know that he has like a big platform and he could probably say some shit about me or like, I don't know.
[00:55:58]  Like I, it's the same thing with Kai.
[00:56:00]  Like I know he has some crazy shit on her and like, God bless you, Kai, but like I know that he has some shit on you.
[00:56:07]  And I kind of felt the same way.
[00:56:10]  You're referring to what's the name of it?
[00:56:12]  It's they call it the blackmail folder, but it had the name like just in case.
[00:56:16]  He called it the just in case folder.
[00:56:19]  Is that like literally the name of it on his desktop?
[00:56:21]  Yes.
[00:56:22]  Okay.
[00:56:23]  And you never saw inside of it.
[00:56:25]  You have no idea what's inside of it.
[00:56:26]  No, I don't know.
[00:56:27]  That's K.
[00:56:28]  Okay.
[00:56:31]  Okay.
[00:56:31]  Are you worried that he's going to like revenge porno?
[00:56:36]  Honestly, I don't know.
[00:56:37]  I don't know what he's done with the videos.
[00:56:39]  I don't have access to them, but I don't know.
[00:56:45]  I think that would be people's like main question is like, if you think this guy is like violently aggressive and has videos of you naked, like why?
[00:56:57]  I figure I guess now would be the appropriate time.
[00:56:59]  A question I like to ask people um, who we talk to, like this is in an ideal situation.
[00:57:05]  What is like the outcome of this conversation?
[00:57:07]  Like if you controlled like the threads of fate, what happens after this this uh discussion?
[00:57:14]  Um, I want to stop talking about it on social media and just go actually figure out a way to get those videos and um, maybe get the police involved, because I don't.
[00:57:30]  I'm just honestly, what makes me nervous is that I am kind of I'm not an internet person.
[00:57:37]  I'm not trying to.
[00:57:40]  I wasn't ever in it for, like you know, I want to get a bunch of clout like famous, but I'm just nervous that he's gonna do this to like so many other women.
[00:57:50]  So it's like like one part, like self-interested.
[00:57:54]  I kind of want to like force him to like delete my folder on his computer and then, like one part don't, don't date this guy because he's like sexually violent.
[00:58:05]  Yeah okay Katie, do you have a different interest?
[00:58:10]  Do you like what would you?
[00:58:13]  I just felt bad for her, like I don't know.
[00:58:16]  I like as an internet girl, I was like whatever these other fucking these like other girls will either come out about it or something will happen, like I I like didn't want and also like just being a girl on the internet I did not want to deal with like dog piling or anything, so I just never said anything.
[00:58:33]  But then when sack came to me, I felt bad because it was like okay, now he's targeting like normal tender women who like aren't like internet girls, who kind of know his past, and so that was like the only reason I came forward was to like help add, like sentiment to what she's saying and like also yeah, like yeah, you guys met because you were mutuals through Tom, like you should see DM'd me.
[00:58:59]  I don't, am I okay with like explaining this sack.
[00:59:02]  Yeah, she DM'd me and was like I think we're talking to the same guy and I literally and I literally, because she's so normal thought she was a bot and was like what I was like?

=== He Told Me 15 (03:48) ===

[00:59:11]  I was like girl, what the hell are you like?
[00:59:13]  I'm not talking to anyone, what are you talking about?
[00:59:15]  And then, after a little back and forth, we she was like we talked and it was like turkey tom, and I was like girl, I haven't talked to him in three years but like what's up, like why like, why do you think that?
[00:59:25]  Like what's happening?
[00:59:26]  And then she spilled the beans to me and I was like I was like you need to say this somewhere.
[00:59:31]  Like this is not like normal.
[00:59:34]  The fact that he like tried to hide everything from you and everything is just like weird.
[00:59:39]  And then and I didn't even know about this whole Ellie Later lady or anything until she told me about it and she, she didn't even tell me like the validity of it.
[00:59:47]  I learned all from like the thread, um how, what like him?
[00:59:53]  How do I word this?
[00:59:54]  Is he like your first boyfriend or second third, Me?
[00:59:58]  Yeah, both of you.
[01:00:00]  He was like my like third boyfriend, probably, but again, it wasn't really like a boyfriend.
[01:00:06]  Okay.
[01:00:08]  He was my, I guess, my second boyfriend.
[01:00:12]  And you met him when you were what ages?
[01:00:15]  I was like 20, 21.
[01:00:17]  I was 20.
[01:00:18]  And he was like 24, right?
[01:00:21]  He was 22, turning 23.
[01:00:25]  Okay.
[01:00:27]  Okay, so when he had told Katie that she was number three, number five, she had, he had two and then four like previous encounters.
[01:00:39]  I was his second body and then and then he told me that he had four bodies the next time I saw him.
[01:00:44]  Okay.
[01:00:46]  And he told you 15, right?
[01:00:50]  Yes.
[01:00:50]  And to be specific, he told me 15, but I lost track.
[01:00:56]  Oh, okay.
[01:00:58]  So between March 23 and May 25, he had sex with me.
[01:01:08]  24.
[01:01:09]  24.
[01:01:10]  Okay.
[01:01:10]  So in just over a year.
[01:01:13]  He had at least one sexual encounter per month, basically.
[01:01:17]  Yes, basically, yeah.
[01:01:19]  Okay.
[01:01:22]  The okay.
[01:01:23]  I remember one, the number one thing that really stood out from all the messages, and this is just funny to me personally, okay, because of who I am.
[01:01:31]  After, you said that after four months in, you found the Kiwi Farms, right?
[01:01:36]  Uh, yeah.
[01:01:38]  And then after that, he could not maintain an erection?
[01:01:41]  Um, I'm trying to think of exactly because I confronted him about all the girls, and I started really being on his ass in December.
[01:01:51]  And then as soon as basically as soon as I told him about Kiwi Farms and like the fact that I knew everything, we went to go meet his family and during that whole trip, he couldn't.
[01:02:06]  No, I mean, I'm keeping them if I can, but you can have them if you really want.
[01:02:09]  Actually, you have so was it how many months was it?
[01:02:15]  Was it just okay?
[01:02:17]  So you went on a family trip and it was during the trip where he had problems and that was right after you had a confrontation with him and that was around the four month mark, around the same time?
[01:02:27]  Wait, I guess it was in December.
[01:02:31]  I don't know how long that is from when we first met.
[01:02:35]  That's near the end.
[01:02:36]  If you guys met in May.
[01:02:37]  Yeah, it was near the end.
[01:02:39]  Okay, so way towards the end, you confronted him about all the Instagram stuff and all the e-girls.
[01:02:46]  And you said that you knew about his stuff on Kiwi Farms.
[01:02:49]  And then immediately after that, you had a trip together where he just couldn't get it up at all.
[01:02:56]  And then the relationship ended after that?

=== Aggressive Sexual Encounters (04:53) ===

[01:03:00]  Yes, because he started being like really weird and distant.
[01:03:04]  And I was like getting kind of concerned.
[01:03:07]  And I was like, okay, well, like, there's obviously something to what I told him because he wouldn't have this reaction if this was like a nothing burger.
[01:03:15]  So I was like, huh, that's weird.
[01:03:17]  And I kept being on his ass about it.
[01:03:19]  And then we broke up.
[01:03:20]  And I was like, okay, well, you're, you're a freak.
[01:03:24]  I don't know.
[01:03:28]  Did, was it like, did he break up with you?
[01:03:31]  Or did you just say, like, I'm done?
[01:03:32]  You're like a freak.
[01:03:33]  Goodbye.
[01:03:34]  I kept kind of like trying to get him to just leave me because I would keep saying like, like, you're, you've done all this like weird shit.
[01:03:42]  Like, I don't like it.
[01:03:44]  Like, you're so weird.
[01:03:45]  You treat me badly, especially during sex.
[01:03:48]  And like over the phone, I just listed everything that he had done wrong.
[01:03:53]  And he was like, well, you can leave me if you want.
[01:03:55]  And I was like, yeah, I think I'm going to leave you.
[01:03:58]  That's basically what happened.
[01:04:00]  Okay.
[01:04:04]  Did he do the masturbating in front of the to the videos thing too?
[01:04:08]  Yes.
[01:04:09]  Like how often?
[01:04:11]  Like a one-time thing?
[01:04:13]  I've seen him do it a couple times.
[01:04:15]  And it was usually to like a video like he had just taken of me.
[01:04:20]  Okay.
[01:04:21]  That's so bizarre.
[01:04:24]  Yeah.
[01:04:25]  This is like a really awkward question to ask, but I have to know because it is a chicken and egg problem.
[01:04:31]  Did he ever finish like from having sex?
[01:04:35]  He did a couple of times, but this sounds really terrible, but he could only finish from sex if I was screaming and crying in pain.
[01:04:48]  Okay.
[01:04:49]  How often was it like, I guess he didn't ask for that, right?
[01:04:53]  He would just like hit you until that happened.
[01:04:56]  He would be hitting me and like choking me and slamming me down until I was like screaming in pain because he wouldn't stop having sex with me either.
[01:05:05]  And only when I was like, oh my God, like stop.
[01:05:08]  So then he could come.
[01:05:10]  Okay.
[01:05:10]  So it's literally the words like stop, stop is like.
[01:05:14]  Yeah.
[01:05:15]  Like every time?
[01:05:18]  He only was able to ejaculate maybe three times throughout our whole relationship.
[01:05:26]  Okay.
[01:05:26]  Katie, is this like consistent with your experience or is this like worse?
[01:05:29]  Yeah.
[01:05:30]  The first time I met him, he didn't come a single time.
[01:05:32]  And he just told me it was like because he was nervous.
[01:05:34]  And I was like, I mean, makes sense, whatever.
[01:05:36]  And then the second time, he only came the one time that he watched the video.
[01:05:42]  Okay.
[01:05:42]  I just want to make it clear to the younger audience here.
[01:05:46]  This is not normal.
[01:05:47]  And if this is what is required for you to finish during sex, you have issues.
[01:05:53]  I just want to make, I don't, I don't know how many people need to hear that.
[01:05:57]  That's really messed up and implies that there has to be like some level of like non-consent in your sexual encounters.
[01:06:06]  That's probably like, I'm just thinking, because all the serial killers said that they were really addicted to pornography.
[01:06:11]  It's like, that sounds like a stepping stone to like becoming a serial killer is when you have to have like blood and screaming and sex to ejaculate.
[01:06:18]  That's kind of how I felt.
[01:06:21]  Okay.
[01:06:23]  So, Sacramento, you were talking to like your friends throughout this relationship, right?
[01:06:27]  Did any of them like you, I saw some tags where you were telling them and they were concerned or maybe that was just Katie.
[01:06:33]  Did anybody like warn you?
[01:06:35]  Like, this is messed up.
[01:06:36]  You should probably leave.
[01:06:39]  Yeah, my friends told me, you know, this is never, ever okay.
[01:06:42]  Like, I know that he has money and all that, but you shouldn't just stay with him.
[01:06:48]  Like, you're, you're worth so much more than that.
[01:06:51]  And just trying to be like supportive.
[01:06:53]  But unfortunately, I did still stay with him.
[01:06:56]  And I know a lot of people seem to have a lot of questions about that.
[01:07:00]  And honestly, you were completely correct to question my judgment as to why I stayed with him, even though he was, you know, hitting and choking and beating me.
[01:07:14]  I mean, what could is there any thought process behind like not leaving?
[01:07:18]  I guess it's easier to stay in a relationship in general than to leave.
[01:07:22]  It's like a hard decision to do that.
[01:07:24]  So was it just like, you know, I'm in school and I don't want to like change up my life too much by like breaking this off early or?
[01:07:32]  I genuinely did think that he would maybe change and stop being so aggressive because he told me before that he would like kind of chill out, but he never did chill out and it kept being the same very intense, violent aggression every single time.

=== Why He's Like This Now (15:03) ===

[01:07:53]  It wasn't like tied to anything, right?
[01:07:55]  There's never like a bad day.
[01:07:57]  And just so you know, even in like BDSM stuff, you're never supposed to like take real life anger and turn that into like sex.
[01:08:04]  That's also like a red flag in general for anyone who needs to hear that.
[01:08:10]  So yeah, my question is, he was just always like this.
[01:08:13]  There was never a time where it's like, you know, today, today, you know, let's just have sex.
[01:08:19]  It's like always every time.
[01:08:21]  Yeah, it was always aggressive, but like I said before, during the times when Ty started coming out with like that guy that she's with Liam, he would be so angry and take his aggression out of me, especially hard during sexual encounters.
[01:08:38]  And there was no, for either of you, there was no point at all where he was ever like interested in like, oh, was it good for you?
[01:08:44]  Like, no.
[01:08:45]  Oh, no.
[01:08:46]  He never asked.
[01:08:47]  Never.
[01:08:48]  Okay.
[01:08:49]  Cool.
[01:08:51]  Did a big question a lot of people had, there's been speculation that he's bisexual because he's made weird comments about finding men attractive on his streams.
[01:09:00]  Did he ever come across as like hetero flexible or anything like that?
[01:09:06]  I say yes in the sense that like for one, he said that weird thing about destiny to me and he was like hella obsessed with destiny at that time and was like talking about him and hanging out with him a lot and then and like going to Miami to see him.
[01:09:20]  And then also he would like, because he like lifts weights and stuff, he would like watch videos of other guys like lifting and like flexing and stuff and literally be like, fuck, like, oh my God.
[01:09:32]  And I, and like, to me, like, he would sit there and like act like it's because like, oh, they're so strong.
[01:09:38]  But to me, I was just like, I don't care how strong they are.
[01:09:40]  That's, that sounds gay.
[01:09:43]  Sit there and like moan for a strong man.
[01:09:46]  Yeah.
[01:09:47]  Just to expand on that, he told me a little bit about the Destiny guy that he had went to go visit him.
[01:09:56]  He told Katie that he went to go visit him four times total.
[01:10:00]  But yeah, the Destiny guy from what he told me was gay and wore a butt plug during their interactions.
[01:10:11]  So Destiny was wearing a butt plug in front of Tom.
[01:10:15]  What?
[01:10:16]  What?
[01:10:18]  Yes.
[01:10:19]  So during like during his regular social interactions with Tom, he was just plugged up and told Tom this and he was just okay with this?
[01:10:27]  Yes.
[01:10:29]  How did this come out in conversation?
[01:10:30]  Were you just asking him about Destiny?
[01:10:33]  Yeah, I was, he, he would like bring up these internet people.
[01:10:36]  And honestly, I'm so like normal, like normie pill.
[01:10:40]  Like I've not been super into the internet for the past few years.
[01:10:44]  And so I would have no idea what the hell he was talking about.
[01:10:47]  So I would ask him like, who is that?
[01:10:49]  And so he would be like, oh, like this guy, Destiny.
[01:10:52]  He was a streamer I was friends with.
[01:10:53]  And I found out he was wearing a butt plug when I went to go visit him one time.
[01:11:01]  Yeah.
[01:11:02]  That's very funny.
[01:11:03]  Many people will appreciate that.
[01:11:04]  He's very famous.
[01:11:09]  I mean, I guess on that note, did he tell you any other weird stories about random people?
[01:11:14]  Oh, I remember this because his name I thought was funny.
[01:11:18]  He told me he was doing cocaine with this guy named Dick Masters.
[01:11:24]  Oh, no.
[01:11:26]  That's crazy.
[01:11:27]  That's crazy.
[01:11:29]  He told me that was a couple years ago.
[01:11:31]  But yeah.
[01:11:33]  I feel like I'm being trolled.
[01:11:34]  That's such a specific person.
[01:11:39]  Okay, so he just went over.
[01:11:41]  Yeah, he was in LA with Dick.
[01:11:43]  And he just said, yeah, we met up and we did a podcast together and we did cocaine.
[01:11:48]  We had fun.
[01:11:49]  Yeah, apparently this guy lives in like a mountain house, like a mountain compound.
[01:11:55]  He's up in the Hollywood Hills in a Barbie Dream Doll mansion.
[01:11:57]  That's what he tells people.
[01:12:01]  And yeah, Tom was doing various drugs with this guy.
[01:12:06]  Okay.
[01:12:09]  He both said that he talked about Kai or Kay incessantly, right?
[01:12:15]  Yes.
[01:12:16]  Yeah.
[01:12:16]  He talked about Kai a lot.
[01:12:19]  How did that make you feel, Sach?
[01:12:21]  Because you were like, I don't want to hear about this.
[01:12:23]  Oh my God.
[01:12:24]  Yes.
[01:12:24]  And it made me feel so weird.
[01:12:26]  And I would bring this up to him.
[01:12:29]  And he was like, well, she was like an insane bitch.
[01:12:31]  Like, don't worry about it.
[01:12:32]  But I was like, this woman clearly had some mental effect on you if you're constantly talking about her and keeping up with her new man.
[01:12:42]  I mean, he showed me a picture of that guy, Liam, wearing makeup.
[01:12:45]  And he was like, oh, this fucking guy took my bitch.
[01:12:48]  Like, just like raging.
[01:12:50]  And I was like, okay, did he clearly not over this girl?
[01:12:54]  I think I have a picture of him.
[01:12:56]  He just looks like an effeminate boy, like in the pastel color clothes, right?
[01:13:00]  Yeah, he's like a femme boy.
[01:13:03]  And yeah, so when Kai, I think when she left him or they broke up or whatever, she hooked up with this guy.
[01:13:14]  And now he is the one doing the age play.
[01:13:17]  Like he, he's dressed.
[01:13:20]  He literally looks like a little boy.
[01:13:22]  It's really bizarre.
[01:13:23]  I don't know if I have a picture of it or I'd show people, but yeah, it was, it was very strange.
[01:13:29]  Do you ever bring up age play like explicitly with either of you?
[01:13:32]  Not really.
[01:13:33]  No.
[01:13:34]  Like, because again, like, we never talked about like anything we were into like exactly.
[01:13:40]  He just like would say things that it was like, oh, whoa, it's implied, obviously, that you're into this.
[01:13:45]  Okay.
[01:13:47]  No, no weird like, can you dress up like this besides just gifting you like Hello Kitty stuff?
[01:13:52]  Um no, I mean he would tell me during sex like oh like you're like a little girl.
[01:13:58]  You're so skinny.
[01:13:59]  Like you're so small.
[01:14:01]  It was it was like really weird, but I was just like, oh well.
[01:14:08]  What does he want to do about it now?
[01:14:10]  For real, what else am I going to do?
[01:14:13]  Yeah.
[01:14:14]  It's just, I mean, I hate to ask this.
[01:14:16]  Did he ever ask for like blowjobs or was it just like brutal sex like every time?
[01:14:22]  Oh my God.
[01:14:22]  Sorry.
[01:14:23]  This is like so personal.
[01:14:24]  But yeah, he would, he would make sure that you did that.
[01:14:28]  But he never did anything back to me.
[01:14:31]  Like he never once ate me out, but he would demand that I would constantly suck his dick.
[01:14:37]  And like, yeah.
[01:14:39]  I mean, was he able to finish from that or was it just like a for show thing?
[01:14:43]  He wasn't able to finish from that either.
[01:14:47]  So you would just have to be like down in the, in the penis minds for like an hour at a time until he was bored?
[01:14:53]  Yeah.
[01:14:54]  Okay.
[01:14:55]  Wow.
[01:14:55]  That sounds like a lot of fun.
[01:14:58]  Yeah, I don't, Katie, can you kind of.
[01:15:00]  Yeah, I'm saying same thing.
[01:15:02]  Just like, yeah, he would always want head, but then he is never giving head.
[01:15:07]  And also same of like never came.
[01:15:10]  And it, yeah, it was just like for nothing almost.
[01:15:14]  It was very odd.
[01:15:16]  That is, that is really bizarre.
[01:15:18]  Cause it's like, if you're not, what's the point then?
[01:15:21]  Besides like, I guess like the power play and I guess recording it for him because he would record this too, right?
[01:15:26]  Yeah, you recorded everything.
[01:15:28]  Yeah.
[01:15:29]  Wow.
[01:15:30]  Okay.
[01:15:31]  Um, so he didn't try to do any of the weird age play stuff, but he did talk about her a lot.
[01:15:39]  He said that you were very petite, very small.
[01:15:41]  I guess, did he literally say you look like a little girl?
[01:15:44]  Yes.
[01:15:45]  Yes.
[01:15:45]  To both of you.
[01:15:47]  Yes.
[01:15:48]  The first time I got naked in front of him, he literally was like, This is awesome.
[01:15:51]  You look like a little girl.
[01:15:53]  Wow.
[01:15:54]  And I was like, oh, that's not normal.
[01:15:58]  No.
[01:16:00]  Okay.
[01:16:01]  I'm trying to think.
[01:16:02]  Because, oh, the Kai thing, I was going to ask, you both read her statement, right?
[01:16:07]  Just in brief.
[01:16:09]  Correct me if you think I'm summarizing this unfairly.
[01:16:12]  But she put out this PDF.
[01:16:15]  And in it, she effectively says, I dated Turkey Tom for a very long time.
[01:16:21]  We started when we were like a high school age and then up until early 20s.
[01:16:25]  And it was a very terrible relationship.
[01:16:28]  We were both equally awful to each other.
[01:16:32]  And nothing that they said about brutal, like dehumanizing sex is applicable to my experience with him.
[01:16:42]  But they might be right.
[01:16:43]  I don't know.
[01:16:44]  Like, that's basically what she said.
[01:16:45]  It felt very strange.
[01:16:46]  She did confirm explicitly the blackmail folder, though.
[01:16:49]  She said that's completely real, which makes it sound like everything that she's saying to downplay it is blackmailed.
[01:16:55]  Because why would you, why would you bring that up?
[01:16:59]  I mean, does that sound like a fair assessment of the document that she just says we have a bad relationship?
[01:17:04]  There's serious allegations being made.
[01:17:06]  She believes that your driving motivation is to humiliate him.
[01:17:10]  And she says that this is abhorrent is her exact word.
[01:17:13]  She says she's not addressing any specific thing, but says that he did record stuff, but there was not like any violent degrading sex.
[01:17:25]  I mean, do you have any opinions on that?
[01:17:27]  Or do you want to go first, Zach?
[01:17:30]  You can go first.
[01:17:31]  Oh, God.
[01:17:32]  Okay.
[01:17:35]  I agree with her, like with Kai that they probably didn't have like a fully like he wasn't doing the same thing to her as he's doing to other girls.
[01:17:42]  And she even says in it that like who knows what he's like after her.
[01:17:47]  And I think that like, he told me and Sack that Kai didn't like having sex with him and didn't like giving head and that like they barely had sex.
[01:17:58]  And I can imagine that it's probably because he is aggressive and she probably didn't like doing it.
[01:18:05]  So at one point she just like stopped.
[01:18:08]  And so I think like, and I think that she like mentally molested him or something to where, yeah, because that's why he like compares everyone to her, still has all her stuff and is like really weird about her and like stalks her and her new boyfriend.
[01:18:23]  That I like, I think that, yeah, it could have went like toxic, but like mutually fine, whatever.
[01:18:29]  But I think that's like why that's the reason he's like this now is like something obviously was like fucked in that relationship.
[01:18:38]  Yeah.
[01:18:39]  Um I agree with that.
[01:18:41]  I have specific things I want to bring up, but do you have any thoughts, Sacramento?
[01:18:47]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:18:48]  I think that he definitely has some like weird like limerence issue with her where he just couldn't let her go.
[01:18:56]  And I also don't think that she realized how badly whatever she did to him completely fucked him up.
[01:19:03]  I mean, she did cheat on Tom with Liam, who was one of his friends at the time, which I think is a pretty terrible thing to do to someone.
[01:19:12]  But yeah, I agree.
[01:19:15]  I don't think that their relationship might not have been abusive or whatever, but I do think that, you know, she confirmed a lot of the things that we said.
[01:19:24]  And I think that he was kind of going after girls that look like her so he could take his anger out on girls.
[01:19:34]  That's exactly what I was going to say.
[01:19:36]  I was like, it really feels like just based off like the nature of it, like the positions and stuff, it really feels like he's trying to surrogate her so he can like punish her.
[01:19:44]  And that's why it has to be like so.
[01:19:46]  Okay.
[01:19:47]  Yeah.
[01:19:48]  That's pretty dark.
[01:19:49]  And I agree that I feel like she's a little hush-hush and like vague on stuff because of the whole just-in-case file.
[01:19:57]  Like, I think it would just become like an evil war if they both came out with action.
[01:20:03]  Like, if she came out with any actual damning evidence, he probably would try to like destroy her life.
[01:20:08]  Yeah, I mean, what the letter reads very weird to me because, number one, there's not like a thesis.
[01:20:14]  It's not like she's out there saying, I want to make this clear.
[01:20:17]  It's like, what are you even trying to say in this document?
[01:20:20]  I don't, what's the point?
[01:20:22]  It's very weird.
[01:20:23]  She like goes, she says that, like, she doesn't think that Tom's that evil, but she's also like, I can't attest, but also.
[01:20:29]  Yeah, well, that's the other thing is that she then goes on to say, like, I want to have my, I've been private about this.
[01:20:35]  I want to remain private, but I'm publishing this thing that has no purpose anyways.
[01:20:40]  And then she goes on to say, like, I didn't have these bad experiences, but you can trust victims.
[01:20:46]  And then she like goes on to say, like, yes, he has a blackmail folder on me.
[01:20:51]  And it just feels like it really sounds like you have a gun to your head and you're trying to say something without saying anything so that Tom's appeased, but you're not actually saying, yeah, don't worry about it.
[01:21:00]  He's fine.
[01:21:01]  You know what I mean?
[01:21:02]  Yeah, that's kind of what I thought too.
[01:21:05]  That's what we both thought.
[01:21:07]  Yeah.
[01:21:09]  Yeah.
[01:21:12]  Yeah, that's, that's bizarre.
[01:21:13]  I don't know if they use this word anymore, but it's called oneitis when I was a teenager.
[01:21:18]  I don't know what I'm about.
[01:21:19]  That's what I thought too.
[01:21:20]  I literally, my friends were saying that because I would tell them about like the whole weird Kai stuff.
[01:21:26]  And they were like, he's got oneitis.
[01:21:31]  Thank you.
[01:21:32]  Let me see if I received any questions.
[01:21:37]  Someone asked if he tried to get either of you to look like her, but he did so passively through like gifts and stuff.
[01:21:44]  I asked if you, oh, with Meowdalin, the puppy player, was there anything like that you saw in regards to that?
[01:21:55]  Because there are pictures of them together.
[01:21:56]  And I feel it's pretty obvious that they had sex.
[01:21:59]  Was that during the time that you guys were together?
[01:22:01]  Or was that like before?
[01:22:03]  That was before, but I did end up asking him about her during like my sussy kind of phase.
[01:22:11]  And he said that they had met up before.
[01:22:17]  They had never done anything.
[01:22:19]  But keep in mind that he also lied to me that he had never done anything with Ellie.
[01:22:24]  But he also said that apparently she had been married before and she is a devout Christian who only has one body and wants to wait until marriage, which kind of made me have a weird feeling because how would you know that about someone if you weren't trying to, you know, that's that's kind of not just someone something you tell a business associate.
[01:22:49]  It sounds like he tried to, then she was like, I'm waiting until marriage.
[01:22:51]  You got to put a, you got to put a cholera on it, you know?
[01:22:54]  He's like, oh, I'm not doing that.

=== Manipulative Explanations (07:12) ===

[01:22:57]  Bye.
[01:22:59]  Who, which one of you, I think it was Sacramento, but which one of you was the one that had the eating disorder that he like?
[01:23:05]  It was me.
[01:23:07]  And he like encouraged you to continue having an eating disorder or he was like complimenting you or something, right?
[01:23:12]  Can you clarify?
[01:23:14]  Yeah, he would, I told him very early on, like, hey, like, I've struggled with eating issues in the past and I'm kind of still trying to gain some weight and make sure everything's okay.
[01:23:25]  And he would tell me, oh, I love how skinny you are.
[01:23:28]  I like how small you are, you know, like, I love how your body is like skinny.
[01:23:33]  And like, just say all this stuff that was incredibly hard to hear.
[01:23:39]  Yeah, that's really mean.
[01:23:41]  Yeah.
[01:23:44]  Like, I don't know.
[01:23:45]  I guess he wants women that are as skinny as possible.
[01:23:49]  I don't know.
[01:23:50]  Did he ever, this would also be dreaming.
[01:23:52]  Did he ever say, like, your body looks like Kai's?
[01:23:56]  No.
[01:23:58]  Okay.
[01:24:01]  Did you ever contact Meowdolyn?
[01:24:04]  No, I feel like she definitely knows some shit, though.
[01:24:07]  So Meowdolyn, if you're hearing this, please, like, it's okay.
[01:24:12]  I know you're a puppy, but we don't care.
[01:24:14]  Like, did he, did he ever talk in like a baby voice or ask that you do it?
[01:24:24]  He would do the like weird baby voice.
[01:24:26]  I know what you're talking about.
[01:24:27]  And he would do the weird baby voice sometimes as like a joke, but it was like really scary because he would, he sounded like a baby and he would even do the thing where he like puts his legs up and like sucks on his thumb like a baby.
[01:24:43]  Oh my god.
[01:24:44]  That is bizarre.
[01:24:46]  Yeah, I agree.
[01:24:48]  But there was no other signs of like age play or anything.
[01:24:52]  I mean, that sounds like she trained him.
[01:24:56]  Yeah, other than the fact that he like told us we look like really young and like he liked that we're small and skinny and have no boobs, like not really super age play stuff.
[01:25:09]  Okay.
[01:25:10]  Did he ever come across as generally manipulative?
[01:25:15]  Like just like, you know, like a general narcissistic stuff, like lying about stuff that doesn't make sense that doesn't need to be lied about.
[01:25:24]  No, just very upfront, very honest.
[01:25:27]  He was manipulative about some situations.
[01:25:30]  I mean, obviously he lied to me about what he did at first.
[01:25:36]  He did lie to me about meeting Ellie.
[01:25:40]  And I think that he was a very good liar and would, and would kind of twist stories a lot to make him look like the cool guy.
[01:25:50]  One of an example I can give is one of his friends went to the hospital and he was like, well, if I hadn't noticed that my friend was sick and took him to the hospital, he would have died.
[01:26:04]  So basically I saved his life.
[01:26:06]  Wow.
[01:26:07]  And just like really narcissistic shit like that, that would kind of be like, oh, okay, dude.
[01:26:14]  Was there any other weird, like once off lines like that?
[01:26:16]  That was like, that's the bizarre thing to say.
[01:26:19]  I'm trying to really think of some and I'm sure I could come up with more.
[01:26:24]  But yeah, it was just stuff like that that he would try to make him seem cooler than he really was, I guess.
[01:26:31]  Oh, you reminded me.
[01:26:33]  He made a very interesting post about how he seems to resent his career on YouTube and wants to like start a rock band as a vocalist.
[01:26:41]  Yes, that is 100% true.
[01:26:44]  How often did he bring up the rock star fantasy?
[01:26:48]  Oh, all the freaking time.
[01:26:49]  Like he was like, oh, I'm just so burnt out with work.
[01:26:52]  I hate what I'm doing.
[01:26:53]  I just, I feel like there's, I'm just creating more drama and like I'm doing nothing with my life with this YouTube channel because I'm just talking about, you know, people who have fucked their life up and I'm just, you know, it doesn't really mean anything, but I want to be like Pantera and be like, create my own genre.
[01:27:15]  That's when he said he wanted to create his own genre of music in which he is both the front man and lead guitarist.
[01:27:24]  Did he actively pursue this in any way or did he just like talk about it as like a fantasy?
[01:27:31]  He bought a guitar, but he like never played it.
[01:27:35]  He just bought a guitar.
[01:27:36]  That's sad.
[01:27:37]  That's relatable.
[01:27:40]  It's a very guy thing to do, buy something like, I'm going to learn how to master this.
[01:27:44]  You just never do it.
[01:27:46]  So he just felt like his work hadn't had no actual value or meaning.
[01:27:51]  Yes.
[01:27:52]  That's sad.
[01:27:56]  Did he, how often did he like talk about his work?
[01:27:59]  You said you asked him about specific people and stuff.
[01:28:03]  Like, did he seem like he hated talking about it?
[01:28:05]  Like, I don't even want you to have your mind routed by this internet drama stuff.
[01:28:10]  He would hate when I called him Turkey Tom.
[01:28:12]  Like, he would be like, don't call me that.
[01:28:19]  I would joke around with him and be like, oh, Turkey Tom.
[01:28:22]  Like, Thanksgiving for Turkey.
[01:28:24]  And he would be like, don't call me that.
[01:28:29]  That's very funny.
[01:28:33]  But like, I mean, outside of that, like, there was never like any ongoing discussion about what he was up to.
[01:28:41]  Like, on the internet, you mean?
[01:28:42]  Or?
[01:28:43]  Yeah.
[01:28:43]  Like, did he ever like vent?
[01:28:44]  He's like, oh man, I'm working on this thing.
[01:28:46]  It's like, it's so stupid.
[01:28:47]  Like, did he like fill you in on what he was doing day to day?
[01:28:49]  Yeah, he would be, he would be like, yeah, I'm working on this video.
[01:28:53]  You know, it's about so-and-so.
[01:28:55]  And he would kind of try to explain whatever the heck he was working on the video about to me.
[01:29:01]  And he would be like, oh, it's just taking forever.
[01:29:04]  And like, he would have someone else also, I don't know if this is public information or whatever, but he wouldn't really write his own stuff.
[01:29:11]  He would pay other people to write it for him.
[01:29:14]  How much, if, do you know, how much of the work did he actually do?
[01:29:18]  I know he had an editor because he puts together these huge videos, right?
[01:29:22]  So, and he makes a ton of money.
[01:29:23]  So, like, why not have an editor?
[01:29:25]  But was it like completely sourced from people in Discord?
[01:29:28]  Do you have like a paid writing team?
[01:29:30]  Did he have like, did he just do the voiceover basically?
[01:29:35]  He would, he would do editing on his own videos, but yeah, he would basically just read out whatever he had written for him, like the script.
[01:29:46]  But he did the editing of like putting together like the screenshots and stuff, the videos.
[01:29:52]  Yeah.
[01:29:55]  He told me apparently that he had fired a bunch of his editors.
[01:29:58]  And so he would do all the editing, but he would still pay people to like collect everything and write up a script for him.
[01:30:08]  Okay.

=== Long-Term Discord? (06:42) ===

[01:30:09]  Yeah.
[01:30:10]  That removes some of the joy from it if you don't have any interest in the subject whatsoever and are just voicing over videos at that point.
[01:30:18]  Yeah.
[01:30:20]  I'm not sure.
[01:30:21]  So after you guys, you guys broke up in December, so only a month ago.
[01:30:28]  And then there was how many weeks between that and deciding to like post on the forum?
[01:30:35]  And what was like the motivating factor?
[01:30:38]  Because for posterity's sake, if you're listening, like in the future, the Kiwi Farms right now has been like under an attack for the last couple of months.
[01:30:46]  So I've had to disable registrations without invitation code.
[01:30:50]  And you did, you had to email me to get her invitation code.
[01:30:53]  So I actually had to vet you.
[01:30:56]  So you sent me like multiple pictures and one was like you're covering your mouth and the other one with Turkey Tommy.
[01:31:01]  You have sunglasses on.
[01:31:02]  I'm like, I can't even see like an entire picture of your face at this point because of how you sent them.
[01:31:09]  But you actually, you went out to your car in like the middle of the night to get your sunglasses so I could confirm that it was like the same sunglasses in this picture.
[01:31:16]  So it wasn't like a split decision.
[01:31:18]  We're like, okay, I'm going to join on this forum and like dump all this stuff.
[01:31:22]  It was like a really deliberate action.
[01:31:24]  So what was like the igniting factor for that?
[01:31:29]  It was talking to Katie and realizing that I wasn't the only person that he had done this to.
[01:31:36]  And that made me kind of realize like, oh shit, like he's going to be out there doing this to more people.
[01:31:43]  It's bad.
[01:31:45]  So, yeah, that's kind of what made me want to come out because I realized that I'm not alone.
[01:31:50]  And also, if I have another person with me who has been through the same thing, you know, I mean, you know, strength in numbers.
[01:31:57]  So, yeah, it is, it is kind of shocking to me that he, like, he's because it's over multiple years and he's just having like this completely like passionless, joyless, like, like humping sessions that are like really violent.
[01:32:10]  It's like, but he's just, that's just like what he does, apparently.
[01:32:13]  It's his, even in long-term relationships, like that's how he just prefers to do it.
[01:32:18]  That's really, really bizarre.
[01:32:20]  Yeah.
[01:32:22]  Um, but there was no like specific, like, did you guys talk at all between then, between breaking up and then?
[01:32:28]  Um, Tom and I, yeah.
[01:32:31]  Um, I don't believe so because I blocked him.
[01:32:35]  Um, as soon as I was gonna post, I did let him know, and I was like, um, I'm just gonna see, I'm just gonna post about everything that happened.
[01:32:45]  So, yeah, and then I blocked him.
[01:32:48]  Okay.
[01:32:49]  Um, the only other questions I'd have would be like super petty and catty stuff that people would want to hear.
[01:32:56]  So, do you feel like there's anything that wasn't mentioned that is like super important?
[01:33:01]  Like any real important event in that timeline?
[01:33:04]  Because it just sounded like you guys were hooking up like once every week and kind of had this long-term thing.
[01:33:10]  And then, after a while, it just got kind of weird because he was like very obviously talking to other women.
[01:33:15]  And then, after you started digging into him more, my take on this, by the way, was that after you found out about the Kiwi farms, the power dynamic of the relationship just completely like equalized.
[01:33:29]  It's like if she knows about this drama website, then I don't really have, I can't like be mean to her.
[01:33:35]  I can't really do anything anymore.
[01:33:37]  So, it kind of lost interest because of that, where it's like, if I have like this normal person who has no internet presence whatsoever, I can do whatever I want.
[01:33:47]  And then if she doesn't like it, all she can do is like leave, right?
[01:33:50]  But then it's like once, once you found out about like the whole ecosystem down there, it's it's just it's over for him and he can't get into it anymore.
[01:33:59]  I agree.
[01:33:59]  I think that it was I hate to be like those people who are like, oh, power dynamics, blah, blah, blah.
[01:34:06]  But it was definitely a big thing for him.
[01:34:09]  And knowing that I have like found this place where people have just openly talked shit about him and I found all of this dirt about him, I think it just ruined his like ego thing that he had going on.
[01:34:24]  Um, because obviously, from what I've seen, every single woman usually either didn't either knew who he was or found out very quickly who he was.
[01:34:35]  And that's the only reason why they ended up sleeping with him.
[01:34:39]  So, I think that that gave him a really big ego.
[01:34:42]  Okay.
[01:34:44]  Yeah.
[01:34:45]  Um, okay, then I guess that's basically it for anything timeline-wise.
[01:34:53]  I guess now, if you don't mind, um, let me know if you get bored or don't want to answer something.
[01:34:59]  But uh, many people have many questions.
[01:35:02]  I see one person's asking that they want to know if Turkey Tom's self-harmed.
[01:35:06]  Apparently, there's an allegation that he was like a cutter or something.
[01:35:09]  Do you, do you see any of that?
[01:35:11]  He told me that he had cut himself, but I didn't see any scars.
[01:35:15]  And I did not see a carving in his chest of any sort or anything.
[01:35:20]  And so I thought that was fake because of how it was released, but apparently that's real.
[01:35:25]  He confirmed that.
[01:35:26]  I never saw a carving on him.
[01:35:28]  Like, and I met him pretty soon after the whole situation.
[01:35:32]  And then, and like, he told me that he had self-tarmed before, but I like didn't see any scars on him.
[01:35:38]  And so I thought maybe he was just doing that to like try to like be like, me too, girl.
[01:35:45]  Okay.
[01:35:45]  I mean, that sounds like that verifies it, though.
[01:35:47]  That's crazy.
[01:35:48]  I'm surprised.
[01:35:51]  Oh, and one other thing, I forgot about this, but you actually, Sacramento had sent me a picture that was like censored.
[01:35:57]  Apparently, the only picture that he would send you is one where his face isn't clearly visible in it.
[01:36:02]  But you can, I can tell the desk, like his computer is moved onto the table, but I can still see like the monster is like on the cozy.
[01:36:09]  That's like on the table, like in the exact same position.
[01:36:12]  So I can tell that's clearly his desk.
[01:36:14]  And you sent it to me because he's grabbing your face in such a way that the picture I showed of the bruise on Katie's face is the exact same position.
[01:36:24]  Like that bruise matches up precisely with how he's grabbing you.
[01:36:27]  So that's what I saw.
[01:36:32]  Because he didn't want to post it in public.
[01:36:34]  So I vetted it indirectly by saying, yeah, that's definitely him.
[01:36:38]  Because his hair is very distinct.
[01:36:39]  He has that swoosh hair, like Bieber, I guess.
[01:36:41]  I don't know if that's mean to say.
[01:36:43]  But he has that hair.
[01:36:45]  He has the emo bang.
[01:36:48]  Yeah.
[01:36:48]  And he's grabbing in a very distinct way that would leave a thumbprint.

=== Nick's Distinct Look (03:30) ===

[01:36:52]  It was very, very hard.
[01:36:55]  So on that note, did he ever talk shit about any of his YouTube friends?
[01:37:01]  In particular, Nicholas DiOreo.
[01:37:03]  Did he ever say, I hate that guy?
[01:37:06]  No, I can't even remember him ever talking about someone named Nick or Nicholas.
[01:37:13]  He talked about Nick in passing to me, but never like anything bad.
[01:37:17]  He was just like, he would talk about like, oh, my YouTube friend, Nick.
[01:37:22]  Sorry, guys.
[01:37:23]  He never, he never spoke at length about like anybody that he streamed with or anything.
[01:37:28]  Not really.
[01:37:31]  Not really.
[01:37:34]  How big was his penis?
[01:37:35]  Oh, my God.
[01:37:44]  Can we plead the fifth on this one?
[01:37:45]  I don't want to get that's that can't be his own that'll always look good for him.
[01:37:51]  You have to say it's shaped like an egg.
[01:37:53]  That's the defense.
[01:37:56]  It's hella fucked up, guys.
[01:37:58]  It's been all types of ways.
[01:37:59]  It looks like a Z. Let's see if there's anybody else.
[01:38:09]  So no, no shit talking that would be funny to relay.
[01:38:12]  I guess him doing cocaine with Dick Masterson and knowing that I don't know how you carry a conversation with somebody knowing that he has a butt plug-in.
[01:38:19]  That's a bit weird.
[01:38:20]  That is so funny.
[01:38:26]  I think you should tell them that he wasn't, he wasn't accepted into the Catholic Church.
[01:38:32]  Oh my gosh.
[01:38:35]  Yeah.
[01:38:38]  I'm a Catholic and he grew up Catholic.
[01:38:40]  So I decided to try to take him to church with me, even though he's kind of like a turbo godless atheist.
[01:38:48]  And he decided to go to church wearing his like usual homeless attire.
[01:38:53]  And when he went up to go get communion from the priest, the priest was like, you're not Catholic.
[01:39:01]  Don't come and take communion.
[01:39:03]  And he was being very disrespectful the whole time during Mass and decided to start taking Zins during service.
[01:39:11]  Really?
[01:39:12]  What the fuck?
[01:39:14]  That's a red flag.
[01:39:15]  If anyone doesn't, like, if you're trying to like bring somebody into like your social circles and they're just that disinterested and passive aggressive and shit, like that's a bad sign.
[01:39:25]  Yeah.
[01:39:26]  Oh, I didn't even mention this, but you, you talked about how he, I don't even know what these are Zines.
[01:39:31]  Is it like a e-cigarette?
[01:39:33]  Zin is it's a nicotine pouch.
[01:39:36]  It's kind of like a dip.
[01:39:39]  It's almost like if you made dip into like, it's like the, it's like dip, but like vape flavors.
[01:39:45]  So it's like not to, like not chewing tobacco.
[01:39:47]  It's like these little nicotine pouches and they have like fun flavors.
[01:39:52]  Do you have to spit it out or is it like a dissolving thing?
[01:39:55]  You spit it out.
[01:39:56]  And so that's when people question the fact that I said he had a Zen volcano, but I am not kidding.
[01:40:02]  He had a pile of them.
[01:40:05]  He would spit it out on like the floor next to his desk on like on the little cap of it.
[01:40:11]  And he would have like a three inch tall like little pile of like these dirty used zins that had been in his mouth.
[01:40:17]  Oh, that's fucked up.
[01:40:18]  I didn't even know what they were.
[01:40:19]  I was like, okay, so he has like a pile of like e-cigarettes.

=== Law and Kitchen Trash (09:56) ===

[01:40:22]  Who cares?
[01:40:22]  That's really fucked up.
[01:40:24]  That's really gross.
[01:40:25]  He said his room was like in like apparently his house, he has a mansion, but it's completely barren except for his, his like sex dungeon editing studio.
[01:40:33]  And then it's like trash.
[01:40:35]  So that was his house in Maine.
[01:40:38]  He was, when I met him in Texas, he he basically just had like this vacant house in Maine the entire time since he's been here and he was living in his friend's mansion for a while and he was like living in like the kitchen.
[01:40:56]  It was a very weird setup, but yeah.
[01:41:00]  Kitchen.
[01:41:00]  He was living in the kitchen?
[01:41:02]  What?
[01:41:04]  I don't know how to describe.
[01:41:05]  There's like a side room that was like a little mini kitchen that he was like living in.
[01:41:12]  Okay.
[01:41:14]  Gross.
[01:41:14]  People want to see a picture of the Zen mountain.
[01:41:18]  Do you have this?
[01:41:19]  I'm trying.
[01:41:19]  I don't know if I've taken any.
[01:41:22]  I'll have to look.
[01:41:24]  Okay.
[01:41:24]  If you find the mountain, people want to see it.
[01:41:28]  They want to see the filth and depravity.
[01:41:30]  They're very interested.
[01:41:32]  Someone asked, there was two things.
[01:41:35]  And forgive me, I forgot what Katie had said, but someone asked if, why did you threaten Tom with going public before doing it?
[01:41:43]  I'm not like, did you just want him to know?
[01:41:45]  Like, did any, did you say, don't do this or I'll go public?
[01:41:49]  And then he did it.
[01:41:50]  Or, or did you just decide like?
[01:41:52]  Like, don't do anything or I'll go public.
[01:41:55]  I was just like, I'm going to go public.
[01:41:57]  And that's when he told me, oh, I'm scared of what Kiwi Farms is going to do to you.
[01:42:03]  And I was like, well, fuck you.
[01:42:05]  I guess we'll find out.
[01:42:08]  Well, we're very scary.
[01:42:13]  Katie, what did you say that set off a bunch of his friends that were streaming?
[01:42:17]  I haven't been watching their streams, so I don't know what their talking points are.
[01:42:20]  But apparently you said something in a forum post that like upset them or like they honed in on that.
[01:42:25]  What I don't even know.
[01:42:27]  I haven't been keeping up that much.
[01:42:28]  So I don't know what.
[01:42:29]  And also I hate all these slop tuber freaks.
[01:42:32]  And so I have no idea what people are mad about.
[01:42:37]  Tell someone in the chat to say what it was.
[01:42:41]  If you have an idea of what I'm talking about, let me know.
[01:42:43]  Actually, that's a great follow-up question.
[01:42:45]  Why me?
[01:42:46]  Because I did not proposition you guys.
[01:42:48]  Like, do you guys want to come on stream?
[01:42:49]  It kind of came out of nowhere.
[01:42:50]  You asked me what my opinion was on Turkey Tom.
[01:42:54]  And I kind of like gave you a very, very long rundown on my opinion of like Turkey Tom in that situation.
[01:43:00]  And then afterwards, you were like, do you want to do a stream thing?
[01:43:03]  I'm like, sure.
[01:43:04]  And you even explicitly said that you hate the other streamers.
[01:43:07]  So I'm curious what led to that decision.
[01:43:10]  I feel like you've been very nice to us.
[01:43:12]  And I don't also, I really do not want a bunch of these weirdo YouTubers who have reached out to us to like make money off of our stories and try to like twist it into some big giant drama thing.
[01:43:27]  I mean, they've just been so like disrespectful about everything.
[01:43:32]  So and weird.
[01:43:34]  Yeah.
[01:43:36]  Do you feel like they're holding back?
[01:43:38]  I'm not entirely like caught up on the social web of these people.
[01:43:42]  So I don't know who's friends with who.
[01:43:44]  But apparently, I think it was one of you guys that said that he is a social organizer in conventions.
[01:43:52]  I don't know anything about that.
[01:43:54]  I think I mean, a lot of these people are saying retorted shit, I feel like, because they're like, for one, gooners themselves.
[01:44:02]  The one video I watched, the guy was like, I can't hate Turkey Tom.
[01:44:06]  I'm a fan and I'm a gooner too.
[01:44:09]  So, and I was like, all right, what the fuck?
[01:44:12]  And so I don't know that.
[01:44:14]  And then also, maybe because he's big and everything and he's friends with all the other like bigger commentary people, people like they're scared to like go see so much.
[01:44:25]  From my perspective, because I don't have internet friends, like none of these people like me.
[01:44:30]  I don't know who any of these people were until like this week.
[01:44:34]  I feel like having Tom as a friend is probably like a really big boon.
[01:44:38]  So they're caught in this awkward position where they want to be like on the right side of where this falls out.
[01:44:43]  But then on the other hand, they don't want to like preemptively jump Tom and like lose him as a friend because he is a like a financial benefit and like a social tie-in.
[01:44:53]  So they're caught in this awkward position where it's like the internet collective, the mob wants blood and they want these people who give people blood to give them what they want.
[01:45:03]  But then on the other hand, they're like, well, if I screw up and I go all in and then Tom cuts me off and I'm wrong, then it's like, yeah, they would feel bad about that.
[01:45:15]  So they're kind of trying to play both sides, which is the least interesting position to take.
[01:45:20]  Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of people.
[01:45:24]  Okay.
[01:45:26]  Nobody in the thread clarified, I don't think, about what you had said that annoyed people.
[01:45:34]  But yeah, oh, the only other thing I can think of that's kind of like gossip that you might have insights on.
[01:45:40]  I asked you if he was like bisexual or heteroflexible at any point, but did he ever show any interest in transgender people?
[01:45:48]  Because apparently he paid for somebody's transgender surgery that was like a friend.
[01:45:54]  Do you know anything about this?
[01:45:56]  No, I don't.
[01:45:58]  I do believe he's bisexual.
[01:46:00]  And if somebody could repost this or bring this up on the thread, because there is a video of him talking with, I think, this guy, Monkey Jones.
[01:46:12]  And he, he just flat out said, I'm bisexual.
[01:46:17]  So I don't really know how like he could deny it, but he was definitely interested in like men and especially like bodybuilding men.
[01:46:28]  So I don't know about the trans thing though.
[01:46:31]  Yeah.
[01:46:32]  Never talked about trans stuff at all.
[01:46:34]  No.
[01:46:37]  Somebody asked if you had any intention of getting any sort of like law enforcement involved.
[01:46:45]  But I feel like, I feel like you answered this where you just want to try to compel him to delete whatever he has on you.
[01:46:51]  And that's like the extent of your interest.
[01:46:55]  Yeah.
[01:46:56]  And if he, I mean, if he doesn't, I mean, I don't know.
[01:47:01]  I really, I'm kind of confused about what to do, but we'll see.
[01:47:06]  Well, from my understanding, I'm not a lawyer, but as I, as I told you by email, there are victim advocacy groups.
[01:47:13]  And because you're both in the same state, that makes things a lot simpler.
[01:47:15]  That will help you.
[01:47:18]  But as far as the law goes, as far as I know, you can't really compel someone to delete something.
[01:47:25]  But there is a federal law that creates a way to sue somebody if they publish it without your consent.
[01:47:35]  So I guess you should just make it clear to him.
[01:47:38]  I mean, I guess I don't know if you've already made it clear to him, but you should make it really clear to him and like screencap saying that that you don't want him to share anything that you have that he has on you because if he does do it, you'll know it's him.
[01:47:51]  And it is, I think it's $250,000 statutory per image.
[01:47:58]  And as I mentioned in the email, it is a, it has a fee, what's called a fee shifting provision.
[01:48:04]  And this is very rare in our law.
[01:48:07]  But if you sue him and win or prevail at all, even if you don't get $250,000, he owes your attorney's fees too, which is a huge thing.
[01:48:16]  And it's very hard to find a law that has that.
[01:48:18]  So it's really in your favor.
[01:48:20]  It would be a very, he can ask Destiny because Destiny is being sued for the exact same thing at this exact moment about how much fun it is to be sued for revenge pornography.
[01:48:30]  Okay.
[01:48:32]  Anything else?
[01:48:35]  No, I think that's about it.
[01:48:37]  Katie?
[01:48:38]  Yeah, I don't really have anything.
[01:48:40]  I think we went through everything.
[01:48:43]  Okay.
[01:48:44]  Any final words?
[01:48:47]  Any words of wisdom?
[01:48:49]  I have some.
[01:48:50]  You don't have any.
[01:48:50]  Don't worry.
[01:48:51]  I'm not leaving you to hold.
[01:48:53]  Yeah, do not talk to big YouTubers.
[01:48:56]  And if he hits you or chokes you, you need to just break it off immediately and run away as soon as possible instead of being a drama ass instant.
[01:49:06]  It is not normal.
[01:49:08]  There's no fixing that.
[01:49:12]  I guess it can.
[01:49:14]  I had a conversation with him years ago when he was first getting big.
[01:49:18]  And then I think he lost interest in me and moved over to Destiny.
[01:49:22]  I don't know.
[01:49:22]  Maybe he got different vibes from Destiny, something that he was interested in.
[01:49:26]  But I warned him.
[01:49:28]  I said the surest way to fuck up everything you've built is to screw around with girls because that's like the, I don't know what it is.
[01:49:36]  There's something about like relationship drama where it's like, if you know that that's how somebody treats somebody when they think it's completely private, it gives you kind of like an insight into how they perceive interpersonal relationships and how they're, how they would treat you if they could get away with it.
[01:49:53]  I feel like that's kind of why people care about stuff like that because it's kind of like an insight to how somebody really is.
[01:50:00]  But I could also say this, never goon.
[01:50:04]  This for sure, for sure, is pornography addiction.
[01:50:08]  He is straight up fucking lying to you if he's saying that he's not watching porn, because this is like textbook BDSM rape, hentai stuff where it's just like.

=== Thank You, Thank You (01:01) ===

[01:50:18]  That's exactly what I thought I was.
[01:50:20]  I was just like, from the get-go I was like oh, this is like gooner activity like actually yeah okay well, I guess that's it.
[01:50:31]  Then I didn't, didn't see anything else that was too interesting.
[01:50:34]  So uh, you guys did great.
[01:50:36]  In case you're wondering um, my last interview, as she told you, was with Channing Krager, who uh was drunk and on heroin and uh collapsed within a couple minutes.
[01:50:46]  So, Christmas example yeah, I'm very MLK Day example today, and it's, it went much better.
[01:50:56]  I'm very pleased.
[01:50:57]  Um, thank you for your time, thank you for reaching out to me.
[01:50:59]  I appreciate it.
[01:51:00]  Um, and if that's everything uh, good luck.
[01:51:05]  Thank you, thank you for being.
[01:51:08]  Thank you, bye.
[01:51:11]  Alright everybody, that was a conversation with Katie in Sacramento about Turkey, Tom.
[01:51:17]  Hope you found some meaning to this.