Mad at the Internet - A Conversation with DarksydePhil
Aired: 2024-08-26
Duration: 02:03:45


=== From Whipping Boy to Public Opinion (15:00) ===

[00:00:00]  Of you wants to open up and kind of give your thoughts on this.
[00:00:05]  Anybody have a preference?
[00:00:06]  Well, I mean, for me, like, first of all, like you said, who would have thought this ever would have happened?
[00:00:12]  Because until like early August, I was like the whipping boy of the internet.
[00:00:16]  No one cared about what I thought.
[00:00:18]  No one wanted to hear my opinion on anything.
[00:00:20]  And now it's like people actually would like to see me have a conversation with Josh and talk about the whole Kiwi Farms thing.
[00:00:27]  So it's like things are changing so quickly right now.
[00:00:30]  And this is like to me, I just want to preface this.
[00:00:35]  All right.
[00:00:35]  Before we get started, I want to have a real conversation with you, Josh, because I think you know why I want to have a conversation with you in regards to Kiwi Farms, but I don't want this to be like an attack session.
[00:00:47]  I want us to have a real conversation about how things are going and possibly the future because things are turning around for me right now in a very positive way.
[00:00:55]  And this is like a door opening.
[00:00:57]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:00:58]  Like it's, it's public opinion about me is changing.
[00:01:01]  And now would be the time to have civil conversations with people who maybe I never was able to reach out to and talk with before.
[00:01:07]  Like I wouldn't even know how I ever would have even gotten in contact with you until I started hanging out with these guys.
[00:01:13]  And now look at all this stuff that's going on.
[00:01:15]  So I just understand that.
[00:01:17]  I don't want this.
[00:01:18]  I'm not going to be attacking Josh or anything like that, but we have things to discuss.
[00:01:22]  All right, Josh.
[00:01:23]  Well, do you want to open up with your thoughts on this whole thing, talking to Phil and stuff like that?
[00:01:28]  I think everybody, I would actually kind of disagree that only recently people have wanted to speak with you.
[00:01:35]  I think that you've not wanted to speak with people for quite a while.
[00:01:39]  For instance, I know that Mike Klum was trying to interview you for a documentary and you backed out of that just this year.
[00:01:46]  So I think people have always been kind of receptive to hearing what you have to say.
[00:01:50]  And I think that you've been kind of a recluse.
[00:01:54]  The thing is, the things that people wanted to talk to me about are not things that are anyone's business, nor do I want to talk about.
[00:02:00]  They want to talk about my personal finances.
[00:02:02]  They want to talk about what I have in the house.
[00:02:04]  They want to talk about my mobile game habits.
[00:02:06]  They want to talk about my bankruptcy.
[00:02:08]  I don't want to talk about that stuff.
[00:02:09]  I want to talk about games.
[00:02:11]  I want to talk about having fun, chilling, you know, just having a conversation, doing normal things that people do on the internet that apparently I'm not allowed to do because I was the focus of the internet's ire for the greater part of a decade.
[00:02:23]  Now, all of a sudden, I appear on Kino Casino and it's like night and day.
[00:02:27]  Everyone likes me now.
[00:02:28]  Everyone wants to hang out with me.
[00:02:29]  Everyone wants to talk, see new content from me.
[00:02:31]  It feels very different.
[00:02:32]  You know what I mean?
[00:02:33]  Like the Mike Plum documentary was going to have a lot of toxic stuff.
[00:02:37]  Oh, go ahead.
[00:02:38]  Yeah.
[00:02:39]  Well, I was going to ask, do you know?
[00:02:41]  I have an answer for this, but do you know what has changed?
[00:02:46]  Would you like to take a guess at what I'm thinking?
[00:02:48]  I would say public perception just because I don't know, because someone gave me a chance.
[00:02:54]  And I think that's what it is.
[00:02:55]  No one ever gave me a chance to be humanized.
[00:02:57]  Instead, it was easy to beat up on Phil because he was the small content creator who everyone likes to make fun of.
[00:03:03]  But now that people gave me a chance to see me in a different environment rather than just my own stream, things have changed.
[00:03:10]  I think that part of it is that a lot, I've watched a little bit of you and the Kino Casino.
[00:03:17]  And a lot of what they're doing is like showing you other people and you're reacting in the same way that like detractors would.
[00:03:24]  And it's very funny.
[00:03:25]  It's very funny hearing you rip one, Ricada, and get like a first impression reaction to things that he's done.
[00:03:32]  Because it's like you don't know anything about him, but yet you're pretty close to the mark in regards to that.
[00:03:38]  People are receptive because you're kind of taking shots at people and they think that's really funny.
[00:03:44]  Yeah.
[00:03:46]  Yeah.
[00:03:47]  And you know, thanks, you guys, Kino Casino, for giving me that opportunity.
[00:03:50]  Because again, the people who wanted to interview me previously are like, oh, we'll have you on, but we're just going to be, you know, taking shots at you constantly.
[00:03:56]  Let's talk about your finances and shit.
[00:03:59]  Side-scrollers, right?
[00:03:59]  That was side-scrollers?
[00:04:01]  Exactly.
[00:04:01]  Yeah.
[00:04:02]  When they contacted me, it was supposed to be, oh, just be a guest on our show like anyone else.
[00:04:06]  But then they turned it into this three-ring circus interview that I have to be interrogated for five, six hours before I even qualify for the chance to be a real guest.
[00:04:13]  And then they canceled the chance for me to be a real guest after the interview when they saw how much money they were making.
[00:04:21]  Right.
[00:04:22]  How much money they were making from what?
[00:04:25]  From that interview.
[00:04:26]  Because that interview that they did with me was literally 100% negative stuff.
[00:04:31]  I thought if they're going to do an interview that's fair, right?
[00:04:34]  You're going to have some positivity to it.
[00:04:36]  Ask me about things over the years that are good.
[00:04:38]  Ask me about my fan base, why people like me, you know, stuff like that.
[00:04:41]  But instead, it was just like they just talked directly to my detractors, had every negative question lined up, boom, And then the day after the show, when they said they were going to be doing a decompression session where they're just going to play like Mario Kart or something, it was a shooting gallery against me and I wasn't there to defend myself.
[00:04:58]  It was them talking to my detractors the entire stream, receiving donations and contributions to make fun of me.
[00:05:03]  They were literally laughing with negative memes about me and making bank.
[00:05:07]  And that's not what that interview was supposed to be.
[00:05:09]  You know, take a look at the difference between that interview and the appearance on Kino Casino.
[00:05:13]  I think you'll see night and day how I was mistreated a year ago and how now things have changed because I was given a chance.
[00:05:20]  You got thoughts on that, Josh?
[00:05:23]  Well, would you agree that an interview should be balanced to include sort of responses to criticisms and concerns and just like general prying?
[00:05:35]  Because a lot of, you're right, a lot of your drama is pretty personal, but I think that a lot of people, if they try to talk about you at all, that's what comes up.
[00:05:45]  So would it be fair to say that an interviewer should ask questions about like the bankruptcy and stuff?
[00:05:51]  Of course.
[00:05:51]  And we had talked about it before the interview.
[00:05:54]  He said he was going to bring up topics like that.
[00:05:55]  And I said, yeah, we can absolutely talk about that stuff.
[00:05:58]  What was not discussed is that the day after they were going to change their schedule to literally do a dump on DSP stream for profits.
[00:06:05]  Because when you do a fair and balanced interview, okay, you might not even like the person you're interviewing.
[00:06:12]  You may not even believe the answers they've given you.
[00:06:15]  But in order to have it be a fair and balanced interview, you cannot then immediately present a one-sided argument after the interview is over.
[00:06:23]  What's supposed to happen is the audience is supposed to watch that interview and judge for themselves.
[00:06:28]  Is it believable?
[00:06:29]  Is it not?
[00:06:29]  Do I believe his answers?
[00:06:30]  Do I not?
[00:06:32]  What they did is they literally did the interview and the next piece of content they made was, we don't believe anything Phil said.
[00:06:37]  Let's dump on him all day.
[00:06:38]  So immediately the entire audience says, oh, yeah, Phil's a scumbag.
[00:06:41]  Phil's a piece of shit.
[00:06:42]  That's great, you know?
[00:06:43]  And they did it for personal gain.
[00:06:44]  If they weren't receiving all those donos from all of my detractors, they never would have done that.
[00:06:49]  In fact, it might have gone the other way and they probably would have spun it the other way, positive, whatever was good for them.
[00:06:54]  That's how they handled it.
[00:06:55]  Well, we'll let Josh respond to that and then we'll move on from the side-scrollers thing.
[00:06:59]  Cause I think at this point, it's neither here nor there.
[00:07:01]  It was over a year ago.
[00:07:02]  You want to say anything to that, Josh, before we move on?
[00:07:06]  Yeah, I mean, I'm not 100% familiar.
[00:07:08]  I'm not sure if there was something that was said that you said after the interview between those two streams or if that was just like they did stream A and then stream B. Because I vaguely remember that they were responding to something that you had said after that first stream.
[00:07:22]  But when you are live streaming, you know, if people are giving you super chats and feeding you information, you know, that's just what the conversation was going to be about, even if you didn't intend for it to be that way.
[00:07:32]  And it's not necessarily like a profit motive, more or less.
[00:07:35]  It is just like, that's what is there to engage with as a broadcaster.
[00:07:40]  I think an interesting place to start would just be to ask you, Josh, generally what your feeling has been on Phil's detractors and how Phil's detractors have interacted with you and the Kiwi farms.
[00:07:55]  How have you felt about that, Josh?
[00:07:57]  Like, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:07:58]  Well, definitely, I think DSP, as a point of fascination, was already kind of behind by the time that the Kiwi Farms was kind of broadening out from just Christian.
[00:08:13]  Like the glory days of all those Street Fighter clips where Phil is like genuinely angry and like screaming about the online lag and stuff.
[00:08:23]  I think that stuff was already kind of in the past because even like Phil has like six years plus history before the cookie forums was even a thing.
[00:08:31]  So he had been around for a while.
[00:08:33]  And by the time that the forum was up and running, I think Phil just got, you know, everyone gets older.
[00:08:39]  I'm 30 now.
[00:08:40]  I know what it's like to get older and just kind of not be so rambunctious.
[00:08:44]  But I think Phil just kind of like aged out of that and calmed down.
[00:08:48]  But he still carried this contingent of just like really difficult people.
[00:08:56]  And when I say this, I have to be careful because if I try and lump the forum into this, people get angry at me.
[00:09:01]  But there is like a genuinely unhinged contingent of people who hate Phil, and it's a complete enigma to me.
[00:09:07]  And they try to justify it.
[00:09:08]  And I just don't get it.
[00:09:10]  Well, you don't think that Phil should die, Josh?
[00:09:13]  No, I don't, unfortunately.
[00:09:16]  Do you think that Phil should be allowed to make money online, Josh?
[00:09:20]  I do.
[00:09:21]  And that's actually one of the first things that was a point of contention between me and certain people, certain elements in his hate fandom, is that they went after him for like his monetization schemes.
[00:09:33]  And that was right when the Kiwi Farms was just starting to get deplatformed from payment processors.
[00:09:37]  And it really angered me to see, like, you know, you're doing to this guy what is happening to me.
[00:09:43]  And I wouldn't support it for myself, obviously.
[00:09:45]  And I don't support it for him.
[00:09:46]  And then they would counter that by saying, well, he's like pignetized his viewers and he's extracting money from them from lies.
[00:09:53]  And it's like, well, you know, if you give DSP money and he says, you know, I need money and you give money to him, you don't really then get to decide, well, he should only spend it on XYZ.
[00:10:02]  That's not how it works.
[00:10:04]  Yeah.
[00:10:05]  I think everybody here is in agreement on that, right?
[00:10:08]  Like, Phil's money is his money.
[00:10:11]  He could do it.
[00:10:13]  He chooses to spend it on WWE Champions if he chooses to spend it on gin or if he chooses to spend it on investment.
[00:10:21]  Fuck it.
[00:10:22]  Whatever the fuck.
[00:10:22]  It's not really your business, right?
[00:10:25]  Like, I don't really get it.
[00:10:28]  Yeah.
[00:10:28]  Would you agree with that, Phil, that if people give me money, it's like yours to spend and it's not really any other business after that?
[00:10:34]  The line of argument that, you know, DSP is disingenuous.
[00:10:41]  All right.
[00:10:42]  Because I'm on a stream and I'll be like, well, if I don't raise money on this stream, I can't buy groceries later in the week and shit like that.
[00:10:49]  Okay.
[00:10:50]  Has that ever happened on my streams?
[00:10:52]  Yes.
[00:10:53]  I have said shit like that.
[00:10:54]  Okay.
[00:10:54]  I'm here to be honest with you guys.
[00:10:56]  All right.
[00:10:56]  I'm fessing up to everything.
[00:10:58]  And there's been times where, and this, I'm not talking about this week.
[00:11:01]  You know, I'm talking about in the past.
[00:11:04]  And the reason that stuff like that happened is because I went through a really bad financial time.
[00:11:08]  I was going through a bankruptcy.
[00:11:09]  I couldn't pay for anything.
[00:11:11]  This was over four years ago.
[00:11:13]  And there were literally weeks where like, if I didn't raise a certain amount via tips that week, I actually would not have been able to pay a certain bill or actually do things like that get the groceries or whatever.
[00:11:22]  So should I say that kind of shit on my streams?
[00:11:25]  No.
[00:11:26]  Of course I can't.
[00:11:27]  But human and I was desperate and I needed to say and do things in order to raise the money I needed to get by.
[00:11:34]  And the good news is I'm not in that position anymore.
[00:11:36]  And in the last four and a half years, I've stopped doing those kind of streams.
[00:11:41]  You're not going to see me say, hey, we're doing a thousand dollar goal today.
[00:11:45]  And if we hit it, some crazy thing is going to happen, but I nearly need this money.
[00:11:48]  I don't do that anymore.
[00:11:49]  I canceled all those events that I used to do.
[00:11:51]  I don't even do like goal-based streams anymore.
[00:11:53]  We're like, we're going to raise a certain amount of members and then I'll do a marathon.
[00:11:57]  I'll just do the marathon to have fun with my viewers.
[00:12:00]  I don't have anything based on that stuff anymore.
[00:12:02]  But the problem is with my detractors, they're living in the past.
[00:12:05]  To them, everything is black and white.
[00:12:07]  So the fact that I did stuff like that in the past, but I've changed for the better doesn't matter.
[00:12:12]  I did it.
[00:12:12]  I'm guilty of it forever.
[00:12:14]  So to them, I'm still that guy sitting here every day saying, oh, please give me some donations so I can buy groceries.
[00:12:21]  That's the issue I think they have with me, but it's not valid anymore.
[00:12:25]  That's not the modern DSP, but that then again wouldn't fuel the content.
[00:12:29]  Josh has said something to the effect of, honestly, they're just jealous that you're able to make money online.
[00:12:36]  Is that a fair assessment of what you said, Josh?
[00:12:39]  And do you want to kind of respond to what Phil was saying there as well?
[00:12:44]  Yeah, I'll ask that first because you brought it up.
[00:12:50]  I had made the point that I think the most, I think that, to be clear, there's a stratification in terms of people who don't like you.
[00:12:56]  There are people who just kind of like observe and who have good humor about it.
[00:13:00]  But then there are people who I believe are like genuinely low intelligence, like mentally stunted people.
[00:13:07]  And they're just, they are genuinely jealous in a way that you make enough money off of playing video games that they wish they could do.
[00:13:16]  And I think that that stirs on a lot of resentment from the absolute worst of, you know, your hate fandom.
[00:13:24]  Would you agree with that, that there are people like that?
[00:13:27]  The thing is, I don't know these people, right?
[00:13:29]  But I mean, you just have to observe, you observe patterns of behavior.
[00:13:33]  I mean, this guy, Doody, in the last three days has made like over 20 videos about me that he monetized.
[00:13:40]  And it's like 20 videos about one person in three days.
[00:13:44]  Something is going on there.
[00:13:45]  That's not normal behavior.
[00:13:47]  That's a motivated behavior.
[00:13:49]  Something is going on in that man's mind.
[00:13:51]  Either he genuinely hates me or there's something else happening there that you would make that much negative content about someone in a short period of time.
[00:13:59]  I don't know if these people really have issues in their minds, if they just have a grudge.
[00:14:03]  Who knows?
[00:14:03]  Maybe they just saw the dollar signs behind it and, oh, wow, I can literally beat up on this guy so much and now we're making so much money on it.
[00:14:10]  But what's happening now slowly is the camera's turning back towards these people and they're like, oops, we, you know, our skeletons are rolling out of the closet and things are changing for the better.
[00:14:21]  But no, I agree with you.
[00:14:22]  Normal people don't act like one of these detractors.
[00:14:26]  They don't sit there and make the entire existence of their being to hate on someone, to interject into someone's life.
[00:14:33]  It's not like, oh, they made fun of me because I did something stupid on stream today.
[00:14:36]  No, it's like my wife is ugly and fat.
[00:14:39]  He's doing this shit behind the scenes.
[00:14:41]  It's all personal stuff.
[00:14:42]  Well, it goes beyond even just making fun of you, right?
[00:14:46]  Like where it really starts to get bothersome from people is, you know, for instance, we have the bank leaks where they're hacking your bank account.
[00:14:54]  And yeah, and we have like the situation with the Comcast guy and stuff like this.
[00:14:59]  Go ahead, Josh.

=== The Camera Turns Back (05:17) ===

[00:15:00]  Go ahead.
[00:15:00]  Do you want to redirect to something else?
[00:15:02]  Yeah, I wanted to ask because I saw, you know, when I people heard that I was going to be talking to you, you know, I got a lot of people who were either angry, some people were mildly amused, but then a lot of people were trying to like give me information.
[00:15:16]  And one thing I just, I don't, I want your opinion on this, like how you feel about this.
[00:15:20]  Twitch had published in 2020 an infograph showing the loyalist fans of any streamer and you were number one.
[00:15:30]  Per, I think per subscriber or per tipper, you got like $36 and like the average on Twitch is like four or five.
[00:15:37]  And I'm wondering how you feel about that.
[00:15:40]  Like is having such a high return per subscriber something that like, just how do you feel about that?
[00:15:51]  Well, first of all, I heard that report, but I didn't hear it from Twitch.
[00:15:54]  So another YouTuber, I guess, had like done a react to it or something.
[00:15:58]  And of course, you've got to, you know, question the validity of the data because I don't know what data they're going off of.
[00:16:03]  Is it just super chats?
[00:16:04]  Is it the paid subscriptions?
[00:16:07]  Is it obviously that doesn't factor in other things outside of Twitch, like tips and stuff like that.
[00:16:12]  And also, what year was that?
[00:16:13]  When you said it was a 2020 data or was the report in 2020 and reporting on a previous year?
[00:16:18]  It was either, I think it was 2020 or 2021.
[00:16:21]  I think it was data for that year.
[00:16:23]  Because likely the reason that that report was so overinflated is because I was going through my bankruptcy.
[00:16:29]  And that was the year when a lot of people knew that and they came out and were actually like overly supportive.
[00:16:33]  I got a lot of extra support that year because of that.
[00:16:37]  I'm not saying that the report was inaccurate in any way, shape or form.
[00:16:41]  But I think here's the weird thing.
[00:16:43]  You're right.
[00:16:44]  I'm not a giant guy.
[00:16:45]  I don't get 2,000, 3,000, 3,000 viewers on a stream.
[00:16:50]  I barely get 1,000 views on a video that I upload to my channel.
[00:16:53]  Yet I'm still able to make a living doing what I'm doing and do pretty good for myself.
[00:16:58]  Well, how is that possible?
[00:16:59]  Because I've been in the game for 16 years, because I have notoriety for various different reasons.
[00:17:04]  Some good, some very bad.
[00:17:05]  But my fan base has been along for this ride with me.
[00:17:08]  They've seen the ups and downs.
[00:17:10]  They like me as a person as well as a content creator.
[00:17:13]  They want me to succeed.
[00:17:14]  When they see that everyone is against me, but I still persevere, they see it as an inspiration to them.
[00:17:20]  And they've told me, I get stories all the time from my viewers.
[00:17:23]  You inspire me because you don't give up with all the hate and the shit that people throw at you.
[00:17:26]  You're still doing it every day.
[00:17:28]  I would have quit years ago, but I'm not going to quit.
[00:17:30]  I'm going to keep going.
[00:17:31]  I'm the kind of guy that's motivated by adversity.
[00:17:34]  So that's why these people like me for who I am.
[00:17:37]  They're going to support me no matter what.
[00:17:38]  It doesn't matter if I'm streaming on Twitch, which I'm not anymore.
[00:17:41]  Now I'm on YouTube.
[00:17:42]  It doesn't matter if I move to kick or whatever.
[00:17:44]  I have a core group of very supportive people who want to see me succeed no matter where I go and no matter what these detractors say about.
[00:17:51]  And would you say that that makes you grateful?
[00:17:55]  Are you like.
[00:17:56]  Absolutely.
[00:17:57]  I am the luckiest dude on this fucking planet, in my opinion.
[00:18:00]  Like, dude, I started on YouTube at a time when I was incredibly lucky to ever get seen.
[00:18:05]  I blew up at the right time.
[00:18:07]  I stayed pertinent for bad reasons instead of good.
[00:18:10]  And now here I am in 2024.
[00:18:12]  And I'm finally for the first time in 10 years getting a turnaround.
[00:18:15]  I am the luckiest fucking dude.
[00:18:17]  I am so grateful to my core audience who kept me going for that crazy long time when it was just hate, hate, hate against me.
[00:18:25]  I owe everything to them.
[00:18:27]  My whole setup have this stuff.
[00:18:28]  I worked with people to design or they donated it to me.
[00:18:31]  You know, all this shit is all help from my audience.
[00:18:33]  I am the product of a community of people working together to make something awesome for each other, as opposed to just, I'm just the guy out here to put out content to print money.
[00:18:42]  That's, that's never what it's been about.
[00:18:44]  I've even said if I were to become like overnight wealthy, what if I won the lotto?
[00:18:47]  I would still stream.
[00:18:48]  I wouldn't stream as much as I do, but I would still stream because I love it.
[00:18:51]  I love my community.
[00:18:52]  I'm doing it for the love of it as well as making a living.
[00:18:54]  It's not just a job for me.
[00:18:56]  And I'm not sure.
[00:18:57]  Was that computer that you got?
[00:18:59]  Was that a viewer gift?
[00:19:01]  The weird triangle computer?
[00:19:03]  Yeah.
[00:19:05]  Weird triangle computer.
[00:19:06]  Yeah, it looks like an ice cube or a mini fridge or something.
[00:19:09]  It looks like a prop from a video game that you like pull out of the ground like a sci-fi thing.
[00:19:14]  It does.
[00:19:14]  It's crazy.
[00:19:16]  Yeah, but no, that's, again, 100% donated.
[00:19:19]  That was before I started doing much better for myself this month, by the way.
[00:19:22]  That was before I appeared on Kino Casino and everything.
[00:19:25]  And again, now I'm a PC gamer.
[00:19:27]  That's because of the people who like me and want to see me succeed.
[00:19:30]  It's amazing, you know?
[00:19:32]  Yeah.
[00:19:33]  I watched that video of you setting that up.
[00:19:36]  And I don't know.
[00:19:39]  It was pretty difficult for me because you were so frustrated.
[00:19:41]  And I felt like you were kind of angry that people gave you the computer and said like, hey, set this up.
[00:19:48]  You know what I mean?
[00:19:49]  No, I, you know, when I get in a way, if I get very, very frustrated over something, usually that comes out when I play Street Fighter.
[00:19:55]  If I'm playing Street Fighter and there's lag and I lose to a fucking guy who I know I should have beaten, I get so frustrated.
[00:20:01]  But in that case, here's the thing.
[00:20:02]  We've been trying to do this for years to get me a gaming TC and get it set up.
[00:20:06]  And of course, out of the box, there's issues.
[00:20:08]  It's like, Jesus, of course, I can't just set this thing up normally and have a nice stream for my viewers.
[00:20:12]  It's got to be the most frustrating fucking thing.
[00:20:14]  But I get, you know, I get, just like everyone, I get too emotional.

=== Defamation and Forum Control (14:43) ===

[00:20:18]  I get heated and I say dumb shit.
[00:20:19]  But the next day, which you probably don't know, Josh, I publicly apologized for it on my podcast first thing next day.
[00:20:25]  I actually felt really bad about it after having calmed down overnight.
[00:20:28]  And everyone forgave me for it because they're like, that's Phil when he's heated.
[00:20:31]  We see him doing that when he's frustrated with Street Fighter.
[00:20:33]  We understand it carried over to that night, you know.
[00:20:35]  But you're right.
[00:20:36]  I like being called out when I do things like that because when I realize after the fact, oh shit, I fucked up.
[00:20:43]  That's going to make me a better person.
[00:20:44]  That's the kind of stuff I don't mind being criticized on.
[00:20:48]  But when you got detractor channels that are just complete libelous bullshit every day, stuff that's not even close to being true, that's where it's like really frustrating because I can't.
[00:20:57]  Let me interrupt you because this was requested of me.
[00:21:00]  There are, there is something called defamation.
[00:21:03]  If you hurt somebody's reputation, it's called defamation.
[00:21:06]  If it's written, it's libel.
[00:21:08]  If it's spoken, it's slander.
[00:21:09]  But both libel and slander are both forms of defamation.
[00:21:13]  Someone begged me to correct you on this because it bothered them so much.
[00:21:18]  Oh, well, that's because, well, I'm saying libel because I actually reacted to a video yesterday on my React show where Cardi B sued that YouTuber who was a commentary YouTuber and just kept talking shit about her for years and years.
[00:21:29]  And Cardi B sued her for libel in court and won a $4 million ruling.
[00:21:34]  So I think technically, if anything were ever to go to court, it would be for libel, but I don't know.
[00:21:39]  It would be for defamation unless it's written.
[00:21:41]  If someone writes a tweet about you that says something, but if it's spoken.
[00:21:45]  I think we had the word Baldo here to.
[00:21:50]  So guys, do you mind if I ask Josh a few questions about you?
[00:21:54]  Go ahead.
[00:21:55]  One second.
[00:21:56]  A ball seer.
[00:21:57]  Thank you for the 20 subs and Petra Bax for 10 subs.
[00:22:01]  Big support.
[00:22:01]  Big support.
[00:22:02]  Let's get some subs for Josh.
[00:22:05]  Great conversation.
[00:22:06]  I hope you're enjoying this, everyone.
[00:22:08]  All right.
[00:22:08]  Go ahead, Phil.
[00:22:09]  Okay.
[00:22:10]  So, Josh, to preface this, I want you to understand something.
[00:22:13]  I know absolutely nothing about you.
[00:22:14]  Okay.
[00:22:15]  I really don't.
[00:22:16]  I don't go outside of my own realm of existence, my streams and my content to find out about people who are involved in the dramasphere around me.
[00:22:25]  I try to stay out of it.
[00:22:26]  I really, really do.
[00:22:28]  And obviously, we know you're the owner and operator of Kiwi Farms.
[00:22:32]  I know from personal experience and people sending me over there saying, oh, do you know this is on there about you?
[00:22:37]  This is on there about your family.
[00:22:38]  This is on there.
[00:22:39]  That's how I know of your website.
[00:22:41]  What I like to do is have a civil conversation with you now a little bit about where did Kiwi Farms come from?
[00:22:47]  Like, what was your original idea for the site?
[00:22:49]  Why did you set it up?
[00:22:51]  And how did that all start?
[00:22:52]  Because obviously I would think that today, a lot of the stuff that's on there is not what your original intention was, unless I'm mistaken.
[00:22:58]  So I'd like to hear it straight from the source.
[00:23:00]  Why did you set up Kiwi Farms originally?
[00:23:03]  What was the idea?
[00:23:04]  Well, you're completely free to ask me any question that you'd like.
[00:23:08]  As far as where the forum comes from, it was originally specifically dedicated to Christian Wesson Chandler.
[00:23:14]  And in 2014, we branched out to this broad category of people that you would know as low cals.
[00:23:22]  And I think even now it's even broader.
[00:23:24]  It's basically anyone online who's kind of like a celebrity, communities online.
[00:23:29]  As long as people want to talk about them, there's a space for it on the forum.
[00:23:35]  So you're saying that when it was, by the way, what year did you start the website originally?
[00:23:41]  It was not started by me.
[00:23:43]  It was originally a companion forum to a website called the Quickie, which was a wiki based off Encyclopedia Dramatica specifically for Chris Chan.
[00:23:51]  The forum was a companion discussion forum for it.
[00:23:54]  And in 2013, I took over as administrator and I've been administrator ever since.
[00:24:00]  And you do own and operate the site.
[00:24:02]  You own it.
[00:24:02]  You have control of it.
[00:24:04]  I am the top dog.
[00:24:06]  Okay, very good.
[00:24:08]  So when you branched off and made it its own thing, the idea was to have a place for free and open conversation about Chris Chan particularly.
[00:24:18]  But then you saw that there was actually a desire to have another place for other discussion of other people.
[00:24:24]  And that's how it kind of extrapolated and expanded into what it is today.
[00:24:27]  Correct.
[00:24:29]  Okay.
[00:24:31]  So I'm curious because I think we've all heard stories or we've even been affected.
[00:24:35]  The guys from Kino Casino here, I'm sure, can also chime in.
[00:24:38]  We all have been affected by things that have been put on that website.
[00:24:41]  We've been doxxed.
[00:24:42]  We've had information leaked, you know, stuff on there.
[00:24:45]  And I guess my, to, to start the real conversation here, at what point did you see that perhaps people were not doing things in the best judgment?
[00:24:58]  Now, I know there's two different discussions.
[00:25:00]  There's a legal realm and there's a morality realm, right?
[00:25:04]  There's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law and all of that.
[00:25:07]  And we could talk about that all day.
[00:25:09]  But the stuff that's been put on your website has been very harmful to many different people.
[00:25:14]  I think we can agree there.
[00:25:15]  Now, from what I'm to understand, you are against that, correct?
[00:25:19]  You don't want people putting harmful information on that site?
[00:25:24]  That's a very broad question.
[00:25:26]  And I'm not answering this in a legal sense.
[00:25:28]  I'm trying to be very specific about what I'm saying.
[00:25:32]  If in general, if harm comes from information, for instance, there was somebody who had a thread who worked at a Walmart and who posted pictures of themselves online.
[00:25:46]  I'll just say behaving inappropriately at their job at Walmart.
[00:25:50]  These pictures made it onto the forum and he was literally walked into the boss's office in Walmart and they showed him his Kiwi Farms thread and these pictures he had posted online and he was fired.
[00:26:01]  So that is ostensibly harm that arose because of information on the forum.
[00:26:06]  But can you really say, well, that shouldn't have happened?
[00:26:10]  Or even that that's a consequence of the Kiwi farms or is that a consequence of his own actions?
[00:26:14]  If harm comes from information, almost always it was inevitable regardless of if it was on the forum or if it was on Twitter or whatever website.
[00:26:22]  Now, that's one thing and I am perfectly okay with that.
[00:26:26]  If harm comes about as a result of as a natural consequence of something that has already happened, not caused or instigated by users on the forum, there are no quandaries about that in regards to the law or to morality.
[00:26:42]  Now, as far as people on the forum instigating harm, causing harm, I don't like that.
[00:26:50]  Okay.
[00:26:52]  So here's a question.
[00:26:55]  How do you determine on your forums what's being posted up is too far or is acceptable?
[00:27:01]  Do you have like a moderation team who actually takes care of that?
[00:27:04]  Do you ever review cases?
[00:27:06]  Is there a rule set that everyone has to abide by?
[00:27:08]  Because I'll be honest, I've checked out my section of your forums and I see threads like, oh, Phil's playing WWE champions again.
[00:27:15]  Who gives a shit?
[00:27:16]  Let him post to the fucking end of the world about that.
[00:27:18]  But then I'll see a thread like, oh, here's actual information about like a distant family member of Phil's who has absolutely no association with him whatsoever.
[00:27:27]  And here's the docs.
[00:27:28]  And it's like, what?
[00:27:29]  Like, what would that be there for?
[00:27:30]  What the hell does that have to do with anything?
[00:27:32]  So is there an actual criteria and a moderation methodology you have?
[00:27:37]  Like, how do you make sure that what's on your site is acceptable or not?
[00:27:42]  Generally speaking, any public information can be posted.
[00:27:46]  One thing that we would not permit is somebody to post public information and then even imply.
[00:27:53]  Like, I hope he gets what he deserves.
[00:27:55]  I hope it would be funny.
[00:27:57]  It would be so funny if pizza showed up to his house.
[00:28:00]  Like, anything that sort of implies or directly instigates any kind of action is not acceptable.
[00:28:05]  But as far as like Facebook accounts and stuff, as long as it's relevant to the topic, there is very little that will be done almost always.
[00:28:17]  The actions that are taken are almost the exception to the rule.
[00:28:21]  And who would take the action?
[00:28:22]  Do you have mods in place for each forum that are specific to the forum?
[00:28:26]  Is there a general rule that you can use to follow?
[00:28:29]  There's board-level moderators, and that's what I prefer now.
[00:28:33]  If I make global moderators, I realize that they burn out much quicker.
[00:28:37]  So usually I give a mod one or two areas of the site that's like their home, and they're very active there.
[00:28:42]  There's a couple global mods who I trust very well, who have been around for, in one case, since before, I've ran the forum.
[00:28:50]  And then there's me.
[00:28:51]  And I am a very active user on the forum, and I'm very active in moderation day to day.
[00:28:56]  And are your moderators kind of able to just judge for themselves what goes and what doesn't?
[00:29:01]  Because I've heard rumor, or not rumors, but I've heard stories that like the moderators in my forum weren't doing a good job and you shit canned a bunch of them because they literally were not doing their job per your standard.
[00:29:12]  And that's why a lot of the information that was there, that was, I guess, deemed harmful, was allowed for a while.
[00:29:17]  Is that true?
[00:29:18]  So you're referencing something.
[00:29:19]  I don't remember how long ago this was.
[00:29:20]  It was either a couple months ago or last year.
[00:29:23]  I went into the board and I was upset about something.
[00:29:26]  And if I can remember, I'll tell you what it was.
[00:29:28]  But I was doing, this happens every couple of years.
[00:29:31]  I'm not like your board is one of the least frequent boards I go to.
[00:29:34]  And generally what happens is I walk in and I have a reason to.
[00:29:37]  Something's happened and it requires my attention.
[00:29:40]  And I just start yelling at people.
[00:29:41]  And this is one of the most difficult areas to deal with because people get very defensive and it becomes a big deal.
[00:29:48]  And in this case, it was a pretty large ordeal.
[00:29:51]  Like 20 people quit the site.
[00:29:54]  I demodded one of the mods because he actually ran one of your detractor channels and it was monetized.
[00:30:01]  And I thought, you know, that's a conflict of interest.
[00:30:03]  I don't want you to have a monetized channel and also be a moderator.
[00:30:08]  That's kind of, that's never been a thing that we've had before on the site.
[00:30:12]  And I didn't even know about it.
[00:30:13]  And then the other mod for the board walked out because he was upset.
[00:30:18]  And they tried to form their own splinter site to the Kiwi Farms and it hasn't really had any traction to it.
[00:30:25]  So I wish I could remember what it was.
[00:30:29]  Someone tagged you after the cat stream.
[00:30:32]  So somebody says, I forget, something happened.
[00:30:34]  There was a stream with Cat on it and it caused a problem.
[00:30:38]  And I remember that I made fun of people and then it snowballed into a bunch of people leaving.
[00:30:45]  It's one of the areas of the site I don't have good repertoire with my own users in.
[00:30:49]  They don't like me there.
[00:30:50]  They make it very well known.
[00:30:52]  And it's difficult to get anything done with them.
[00:30:57]  Right now it's a guy.
[00:30:58]  Sorry, just to close this out.
[00:31:00]  There's one guy.
[00:31:03]  Sorry, I feel bad.
[00:31:04]  I don't remember his name right now off the top of my head, but he's from another area of the site and I trust him.
[00:31:08]  And he's doing a pretty good job as a moderator.
[00:31:11]  He's only a moderator of that board.
[00:31:13]  Okay.
[00:31:14]  So following up on what you just said.
[00:31:17]  So you have a section of the site.
[00:31:18]  There's a moderator that's a known detractor of mine.
[00:31:22]  You agree that that section of the site isn't up to your standards, right?
[00:31:27]  Why would you keep that section of the site open?
[00:31:30]  Why is it not well?
[00:31:32]  If it's not up to standards of the site, things are going bad.
[00:31:34]  Look, it's actually bad intentions.
[00:31:36]  The guy who was in charge is actually a hater of Phil.
[00:31:38]  He's making money on this.
[00:31:40]  Why would you not just say, all right, enough.
[00:31:43]  You guys didn't behave.
[00:31:44]  You know, you had fun, but this is why we can't have good things, right?
[00:31:47]  And you take it away from them so that way they have to move on.
[00:31:51]  Why leave that section of the site open when you know that there's malicious intent?
[00:31:54]  And this is not me accusing you of anything.
[00:31:56]  I just want an honest answer.
[00:31:57]  I'm serious.
[00:31:58]  I got you.
[00:31:59]  I got you.
[00:31:59]  Don't worry.
[00:32:00]  I would like to answer that question with a question.
[00:32:04]  In your mind, let's just say that I went to the admin panel right now and I could do this and I deleted the dark side filled board.
[00:32:11]  Sorry.
[00:32:13]  You're breaking up a bit, Josh.
[00:32:14]  Just breaking start that statement again.
[00:32:18]  Am I breaking up?
[00:32:18]  You're good now, I think.
[00:32:19]  You're good now.
[00:32:20]  You're good.
[00:32:22]  Okay.
[00:32:23]  Answer a question with a question, the least interesting thing.
[00:32:25]  But in your mind, if I went to the admin panel right now and I deleted the dark side filled board, which I'm completely able to do, what do you think happens?
[00:32:35]  Can you give me like a T plus 10 seconds, 60 seconds, one day?
[00:32:40]  Like what happens?
[00:32:41]  There's hundreds of users on that section of the site.
[00:32:43]  So what happens in your mind?
[00:32:45]  How do you imagine that playing out?
[00:32:48]  Well, first off, I just want to let you know that's not what I'm asking for.
[00:32:50]  I don't want you to think that that's what I want you to do today.
[00:32:52]  Okay.
[00:32:53]  Well, you asked me, you asked me why didn't I?
[00:32:57]  Yeah, just I would like to know what you think happens as a result.
[00:33:01]  Well, first of all, I was on there the other day.
[00:33:03]  And I'll admit to you, I checked it out because I knew we were going to have this conversation.
[00:33:06]  I wanted to see what kind of stuff was on there.
[00:33:08]  At this point, I really don't see too much harmful stuff on there.
[00:33:12]  It's just a bunch of people doing their usual bullshit.
[00:33:15]  You know what I mean?
[00:33:16]  It's they're talking about WWE champions.
[00:33:17]  They're talking about they don't like my streams.
[00:33:19]  They don't like I make money.
[00:33:20]  Ha, he, Keto Casino is gaslighting him because, you know, they're glazing him, but they're going to turn on him.
[00:33:25]  And, you know, it's the bullshit.
[00:33:26]  It's any minute now.
[00:33:29]  Oh, no, guys.
[00:33:30]  Any minute.
[00:33:31]  My worst enemies are coming on stream.
[00:33:33]  Oh, wait a minute.
[00:33:34]  Keemstar's on my podcast on Wednesday.
[00:33:36]  So like, what are you talking about?
[00:33:37]  Right?
[00:33:37]  Like, there's nothing.
[00:33:38]  The stuff they say is ridiculous.
[00:33:39]  Anyway, I think if you were to shut it down right now, what would happen is those people would be angry.
[00:33:44]  They would scramble.
[00:33:45]  And then eventually what they would try to do is find another way to go discuss me in that same manner.
[00:33:51]  It would take them a while to probably organize and find stuff.
[00:33:55]  They probably scramble to Discords and they'd go other places.
[00:33:58]  But the thing that I kind of want to talk about here is what's happened with Kiwi Farms, particularly.
[00:34:07]  I don't know if it's other people, but with me at least, when people really want to hurt me, Kiwi Farms is where they go to post anything that they feel will be the most hurtful to me.
[00:34:18]  All right.
[00:34:20]  We drop for one second.
[00:34:21]  We're back.
[00:34:23]  Yeah.
[00:34:23]  Sorry.
[00:34:24]  Sorry.
[00:34:24]  I just died for like five seconds for a millisecond.
[00:34:27]  We're back.
[00:34:28]  All right.
[00:34:29]  Go ahead, Phil.
[00:34:29]  Finish your answer and then we'll.
[00:34:31]  Hang on, hang on.
[00:34:31]  Hang on.
[00:34:32]  Everyone, please write to refresh or whatever.
[00:34:34]  Oh, man.
[00:34:35]  Write refresh.
[00:34:36]  Sorry, guys.
[00:34:36]  Sorry about that.
[00:34:37]  I have no idea what happened.
[00:34:39]  Okay.
[00:34:40]  What I was saying was, I think that if Josh were to close down my part of the forums on Kiwi Farms right now, those people who were there would scramble and try to find another place where they could do exactly the same thing, whether it's a Discord server or eventually they find another site to do it.
[00:34:53]  Undoubtedly, they're going to keep trying to do what they're doing, right?
[00:34:55]  So closing that part of the forum, I don't think would solve any kind of an immediate thing.

=== Community Responsibility and Rules (15:23) ===

[00:35:01]  But for me, when I see people really want to harm me, right?
[00:35:04]  They want to drop something that they know is like personal information no one would have.
[00:35:08]  They're committing a crime in order to hurt me or my business or my family.
[00:35:12]  Kiwi Farms is where they go to post it because they see that as the ultimate safe space.
[00:35:17]  No one's going to ever go after them.
[00:35:19]  No one's going to reveal their information because they posted it.
[00:35:21]  Like if they post it on YouTube, something might happen.
[00:35:24]  If they post it on Twitter, something might happen.
[00:35:26]  But if they post it on Kiwi Farms, we know that this is the ultimate neutral place and we're safe.
[00:35:31]  And that's my concern is that that has happened to me time and time again in the last five, six years.
[00:35:38]  Whenever someone does something heinous, we're not even talking the realm of legality.
[00:35:41]  We're talking the realm of bad morality, right?
[00:35:44]  Just disingenuous shit.
[00:35:46]  You're leaking information.
[00:35:47]  No one should have.
[00:35:48]  Let me address both parts of this.
[00:35:50]  There's two parts to it.
[00:35:52]  The first is you're absolutely correct.
[00:35:54]  And I'm very happy that we could meet.
[00:35:56]  Our minds could meet on this point.
[00:35:58]  The number one reason why I have never even thought, well, I have thought about it, but I've never gotten close to deleting the board is that as you mentioned, A, there are people of, as you said, bad morality who I do.
[00:36:13]  I keep out of the forum.
[00:36:16]  And also, as you mentioned, the Kiwi Farms is the go-to place to talk about Phil and post things about Phil.
[00:36:22]  So if I deleted the board, and I'm not saying this about any particular mod, so hopefully the two X mods listening don't get too pissy, but if they started their own site and they were left to their own devices, it would be much more, it would be different.
[00:36:37]  And there would be different rules, especially considering that it's just the dark side Phil forum.
[00:36:43]  There are a lot of people who hate me and who look for reasons to try and take down the site and they look at every place on the forum.
[00:36:50]  So everything has to be in order.
[00:36:53]  There can be nothing that is illegal.
[00:36:55]  There can be nothing that instigates harassment, etc.
[00:36:58]  But if it's just the dark side Phil forum and it's just about dark side Phil, they can get away with a lot more because there's no accountability there.
[00:37:07]  That's just you and what you can muster.
[00:37:09]  And what you can muster by yourself is a lot less than what everybody can muster.
[00:37:14]  So in part, yes, not only would they go to a different place, and in Discord, Discord's like the worst of the worst.
[00:37:20]  You can do anything you want in Discord.
[00:37:22]  You have people sharing child pornography on Discord.
[00:37:24]  So Discord has no rules as long as you don't get caught.
[00:37:28]  And the same kind of applies to public forums, especially if they're invite-only.
[00:37:32]  So one of the big reasons why I've never deleted the board is because I know that immediately people would seize that, they would capitalize on it, and they would make a place that would just become the Kiwi Farms DSP forum and it would be worse.
[00:37:48]  And I don't want to try and sound like I'm saying I'm doing you a favor, but I am a moderating influence.
[00:37:55]  And I set a baseline that has to be followed.
[00:37:58]  And I think that in a roundabout way, I probably do do a favor.
[00:38:03]  As far as people going to the forum to post stuff, of course, because it's the largest place with the most visibility and it doesn't come down.
[00:38:09]  But there would be another board specifically for DSP that is worse that would offer the same kind of safe space, as you said.
[00:38:16]  What do you think about that, Phil?
[00:38:18]  Do you think it would be worse for you, as Josh is saying, if he was to delete the board because he is a moderating influence?
[00:38:25]  Let me put it this way.
[00:38:27]  I feel the real problem right now is that Kiwi Farms has too much notoriety.
[00:38:32]  All right.
[00:38:33]  Kiwi Farms is known as the place on the internet that you can go and lol cows are being harassed and you're going to get all kinds of dirt on everyone if you go to Kiwi Farms.
[00:38:41]  That's how people see the site.
[00:38:42]  Josh, I don't know if you understand that, but that's actually the public mentality towards your website.
[00:38:46]  You're down.
[00:38:48]  You know what I mean?
[00:38:50]  If Kiwi Farms.
[00:38:50]  I'm going to throw out a little bit on this, Phil.
[00:38:52]  Josh, you've said that sometimes the forum has gotten too big to the point where it's an eye of Sauron and sometimes it destroys lol cows and destroys content.
[00:39:03]  Do you feel that way about Phil?
[00:39:06]  No.
[00:39:07]  Phil's raw is not just the forum.
[00:39:10]  When I say that, I mean, like, for instance, with Bossman, Bossman Jack had less than 100 viewers when I started talking about him and got a thread on the forum.
[00:39:19]  And now he's got multiple hundreds, thousands of people who watch him.
[00:39:23]  And necessarily, you know, kind of like with not to sound too nerdy, but like micro particles.
[00:39:29]  It's like you observe a microparticle and it changes because you observe it.
[00:39:32]  Same thing with Bossman.
[00:39:35]  Put this attention on them.
[00:39:36]  And of course, it changes.
[00:39:38]  And this happens with everybody.
[00:39:39]  The small fries, if they get a thread and it's a small little thread, but if attention gets brought onto it, it changes who they are necessarily just because they have that much attention.
[00:39:51]  Good answer.
[00:39:52]  Back to you, Phil.
[00:39:53]  What do you think?
[00:39:54]  Okay, so the point I'm making is because Kiwi Farms is so notable, everyone knows about Kiwi Farms.
[00:40:00]  If you want to hate on someone, go to Kiwi Farms and get all the dirt on them, right?
[00:40:04]  If you were to shut down a thread about me right now, those people absolutely would scramble and go somewhere else.
[00:40:09]  That other site they go to would never have the level of notoriety of Kiwi Farms.
[00:40:14]  Sure, the worst of the worst would still find it, but you wouldn't have the common person searching to hate on someone going to that site.
[00:40:21]  You know what I'm saying?
[00:40:22]  It might take them a while.
[00:40:23]  Maybe eventually they would.
[00:40:25]  Okay, well, let me finish my statement.
[00:40:26]  I definitely want to hear what you have to counter.
[00:40:30]  It might take time.
[00:40:31]  And maybe that new detractor forum would grow to the notoriety size of Kiwi Farms.
[00:40:37]  Very well, it could.
[00:40:38]  But it would still take time.
[00:40:39]  You understand?
[00:40:40]  That would actually be a time where like people on your forum, because this isn't just about me.
[00:40:44]  This is about everyone who has a thread on your forum who's had the same level of harassment as me.
[00:40:49]  They would have a breath of fresh air.
[00:40:51]  My God, you're telling me that for a few months, a year maybe, I can have a break from this where people, I know people won't have a central place to just post up all kinds of heinous shit about me.
[00:41:02]  Yeah, I might come back and then you deal with that devil when it attacks you, right?
[00:41:06]  But for to just have a breath of fresh air, wow, I know for a day no one's going to be posting up personal shit about me and my family and other shit on a site that everyone knows about.
[00:41:15]  That would be a big relief, at least for someone like me, okay?
[00:41:19]  I get what you're saying.
[00:41:20]  It wouldn't end it, but at least it would be a temporary reprieve.
[00:41:25]  Yeah, I think that sentiment would apply better to everyone except you specifically.
[00:41:32]  Because I'll do my T plus zero, okay?
[00:41:35]  T plus 60 minutes.
[00:41:37]  Kiwi Farms is down.
[00:41:38]  Message goes up.
[00:41:39]  Sorry, I feel really bad about what I've done.
[00:41:41]  It's gone.
[00:41:42]  There would be darksidephill.exposed up immediately.
[00:41:47]  And then they would start networking, would be on Twitter.
[00:41:49]  And then someone types in darkside Phil on Google.
[00:41:51]  The Kiwi Farms has limiters in its reach.
[00:41:55]  Google, there are people in Google who I know who hate me.
[00:41:59]  And they have made it so that finding information on the forum through Google is actually difficult.
[00:42:04]  I can confirm that because I've tried to search for things about myself.
[00:42:07]  It does not show up at Google at all anymore.
[00:42:10]  It's gone.
[00:42:11]  It's gone from there.
[00:42:12]  But DSP or darksidephill.exposed, well, your name's right in the URL.
[00:42:17]  You type in that and it's a big forum.
[00:42:19]  It has enough threads.
[00:42:20]  People are linking to it from external sites like Twitter or X and all the detractor channels.
[00:42:25]  And then, of course, it would be ran by somebody who might have their own detractor channel.
[00:42:29]  And they would say, well, they would network with all the other detractors and they would get little fancy badges that says, you know, official YouTuber or whatever.
[00:42:37]  And that site would not only be, would have fewer checks and balances and would have less accountability.
[00:42:44]  It would also have greater reach in search engines and would also have better network.
[00:42:48]  Because like I said, the detractors don't like me.
[00:42:50]  A lot of the channels don't like me.
[00:42:51]  They would like this guy.
[00:42:52]  They would like to network with him and get fancy badges and stuff on the site and promote it.
[00:42:57]  So yeah, with you specifically, you don't get a break.
[00:43:00]  Sorry.
[00:43:03]  So you're saying you think that other people on the site would get a break, that they don't have as bad of a detractor community as I do in Daytona.
[00:43:09]  I mean, almost everyone except you would get a good deal from the site going down, at least for a while.
[00:43:14]  Wow.
[00:43:15]  That's interesting.
[00:43:16]  Because, you know, I don't really look at the other people on the site, but that's an interesting perspective.
[00:43:20]  What is it, Josh, about Phil and about the detractors that make them so much different than everybody else?
[00:43:28]  Because like we've just been interacting with Phil a little bit, like did a game stream with him, did an interview, did some React stuff.
[00:43:36]  And like the reaction is like, you need to fucking die for talking to Phil.
[00:43:42]  Like, it's crazy.
[00:43:43]  What is it?
[00:43:44]  Josh, like, what is it that makes it like this?
[00:43:48]  I don't know.
[00:43:50]  And I feel like, you know, they try to justify it.
[00:43:55]  And for instance, this is one thing that was brought up to me.
[00:43:57]  And I would like to hear your perspective.
[00:43:59]  Do you know a guy named Derrish or Derek?
[00:44:04]  Yes.
[00:44:04]  Yeah.
[00:44:05]  He's like a supporter, moderator, and like thumbnail maker for your stream, right?
[00:44:12]  Wrong, wrong, and wrong on all three counts.
[00:44:14]  He's not a supporter.
[00:44:15]  He's not a moderator, and he's never made a thumbnail for me whatsoever.
[00:44:18]  All wrong.
[00:44:19]  All the tractor bullshit.
[00:44:20]  He's just a viewer.
[00:44:21]  Okay.
[00:44:22]  And he made a tear maker for me once or twice.
[00:44:25]  Okay, tear maker.
[00:44:26]  Yeah.
[00:44:28]  Okay.
[00:44:28]  Do you have like receipts on that?
[00:44:30]  Or is this what you've heard?
[00:44:31]  Or is this what's in his thread or what?
[00:44:34]  Well, his response is there's definitely a relationship.
[00:44:38]  Or when I say relationship, I mean, there's definitely like a connection, but his response is actually, it falls through a crack.
[00:44:44]  I don't know how to respond to that because the guy is definitely like a fucking weirdo.
[00:44:48]  And he definitely has like playlists of like little girls and stuff on his YouTube.
[00:44:51]  Like that's archived independently of the forum.
[00:44:54]  But I think I remember seeing like his badge in chat though, that he had a supporter, like a mod sword or something next to his message.
[00:45:03]  No, you're seeing someone gifted him a membership.
[00:45:05]  That's what you're seeing.
[00:45:05]  It's just a gifted membership.
[00:45:07]  Anyone can get that on YouTube.
[00:45:08]  That says he has no power whatsoever on my streams whatsoever.
[00:45:11]  But he's allowed in your streams, though.
[00:45:14]  Yes, he is.
[00:45:15]  But he has playlists of little kids on his YouTube channel.
[00:45:19]  Yeah.
[00:45:20]  Shall we publicly address this formally?
[00:45:22]  This is good.
[00:45:22]  We can find this.
[00:45:23]  Let's talk about this.
[00:45:25]  Why is he allowed to be a member of your community when he's such a creep?
[00:45:29]  That's the one thing that's really fucked up.
[00:45:31]  Here's my philosophy.
[00:45:33]  You guys can completely disagree as streamers yourselves.
[00:45:36]  And everyone out there watching, you may also disagree as well.
[00:45:39]  All right.
[00:45:39]  But allow me to lay down my methodology here.
[00:45:43]  I'm a content creator.
[00:45:44]  Every day I put on a stream.
[00:45:46]  I'm trying to entertain an audience.
[00:45:47]  I'm trying to make a living.
[00:45:49]  I got a chat.
[00:45:50]  People come in.
[00:45:50]  People come out.
[00:45:51]  I see people from all walks of life, people from here, there, and everywhere who attend my streams.
[00:45:55]  And I don't basically don't judge anyone for anything but what's going on in my stream.
[00:46:03]  Okay.
[00:46:04]  If I see someone in this stream doing something disgusting, having awful things said, or just, you know, they're breaking the rules.
[00:46:11]  They're out of there.
[00:46:12]  I have rules laid out.
[00:46:13]  Actually, my stream, I think, is a little bit more lax than others because I used to be known as like the moderator heavy guy.
[00:46:18]  And now I almost don't have any moderators anymore.
[00:46:20]  I kind of handle it all myself.
[00:46:22]  But anyway, my philosophy is what goes on in my stream is the extent of my responsibility as a streamer to take care of.
[00:46:31]  Now, anyone out there who makes content, do you personally know every single person who's on your stream?
[00:46:37]  Do you know what their life is like behind the scenes?
[00:46:39]  Do you know what kind of stuff that they're into?
[00:46:41]  What, you know, their kinks, their bullshit, what they post on their social media?
[00:46:45]  Of course not.
[00:46:45]  How on holy hell would any of us ever know what all of our viewers are doing?
[00:46:50]  Nor is it in our realm of responsibility to have to actually look into that.
[00:46:55]  Do you understand?
[00:46:56]  These people are just here to watch me.
[00:46:57]  That's all I care about.
[00:46:59]  May I just say, okay, so I understand what you're saying.
[00:47:03]  You don't know everyone's backstory.
[00:47:05]  You can't control everyone.
[00:47:06]  Makes sense.
[00:47:07]  But we have verifiable evidence that Derek is a pedophile.
[00:47:12]  He has playlists of kids and it's really weird fucking shit.
[00:47:16]  And this is the one thing Ashton and I are like, what the fuck is wrong?
[00:47:21]  You know, I get what you're saying.
[00:47:23]  Josh was saying yesterday.
[00:47:24]  Let's, let's, let's have, let Josh.
[00:47:26]  Josh, what do you think?
[00:47:29]  It's not just this.
[00:47:30]  Like, I mean, knowing about it, like, when you find out, like, you have to, you have to do something about that.
[00:47:36]  And from what I understand, the big point of contention is not just that he's there.
[00:47:40]  It's that other people, you know, who are in your community, who are in your chats, have pointed out that this guy is who he is.
[00:47:48]  And he seems to be getting a layer of protection that people are able to observe.
[00:47:54]  He seems to get away, according to the people that watch, he gets away with a lot more than other people would.
[00:48:01]  Just in, you know, it's suspicious to them.
[00:48:05]  I don't know.
[00:48:05]  I've not seen this, but that's what they say.
[00:48:09]  So you don't even know what they're saying.
[00:48:10]  You just think that somehow he's getting some kind of protections in my stream, is what you're saying.
[00:48:15]  Yeah, either from people in the chat calling it out or just in regards to his behavior.
[00:48:19]  Like apparently, he spams a lot and he gets a pass with that.
[00:48:22]  And people suspect that there is some kind of association there where he gets a pass.
[00:48:26]  Like, for instance, with the thumbnails, because they say that he has like a monthly vacation, and during that vacation, the style of your thumbnails changes.
[00:48:34]  And that is how they come to the conclusion that the thumbnails are being made by him because they don't get made by him when he's gone.
[00:48:41]  He's literally never made anything like that for me whatsoever.
[00:48:43]  He's like I said, the only thing he's ever made is two tier makers, I believe, over the last year.
[00:48:48]  So he has made stuff, though.
[00:48:49]  He two tier makers and one that I used on a stream and one I did not.
[00:48:53]  Look, brother Phil, like you can't have a pedophile making stuff for you and part of your community in a broad sense, right?
[00:48:59]  Like you should probably just ban the fucking guy and send him packing.
[00:49:04]  And I think he'd get a lot less shit if you did.
[00:49:06]  Here's the thing.
[00:49:07]  You're right.
[00:49:08]  You're absolutely right.
[00:49:10]  You guys are correct.
[00:49:11]  If I were right now to say enough is enough, too many people have issue with this guy, ban him.
[00:49:17]  Okay.
[00:49:18]  That would solve that problem.
[00:49:20]  However, the big picture that no one's looking at.
[00:49:23]  You can solve that problem then.
[00:49:24]  Okay.
[00:49:24]  Okay.
[00:49:25]  But listen.
[00:49:26]  Yeah.
[00:49:26]  Go ahead.
[00:49:26]  You don't understand the Pandora's box that you open.
[00:49:30]  Well, that's a very obvious, like, slippery slope fallacy.
[00:49:33]  It's like you can get rid of the guy that has the little girl play this on YouTube without opening Pandora's box.
[00:49:38]  That's not really.
[00:49:39]  No, no, no, no.
[00:49:40]  Oh, Josh, you got to listen.
[00:49:42]  All right.
[00:49:42]  Because again, you know how bad my detractors are, correct?
[00:49:45]  You know how crazy they are.
[00:49:47]  The only reason that we even know anything about this person is because my detractors went to all of his personal socials and dug into them deep.
[00:49:56]  They're not going to be able to do it.
[00:49:58]  They got him.
[00:49:58]  They dug into him deep.
[00:50:00]  Okay.
[00:50:01]  Hold on.
[00:50:01]  I know.
[00:50:02]  Listen, listen.
[00:50:03]  Listen, I'm not disputing what you guys are saying, but please let me finish what I'm saying.
[00:50:06]  For sure, for sure.
[00:50:07]  For sure.
[00:50:09]  If the only reason that I know that this guy did something bad is because people went off of the realm of my streams and my content to find it.
[00:50:18]  I'm sorry, but that's not my responsibility to be dealing with.
[00:50:22]  You understand?
[00:50:22]  Because here's the thing.
[00:50:23]  Now, please listen.

=== Banning Derek and Detractors (14:56) ===

[00:50:24]  If I ban Derek right now, I call him Derek because that's what I thought his name was.
[00:50:28]  I guess it actually is Derrish or whatever.
[00:50:29]  But if I ban Derek right now, here's what will happen.
[00:50:34]  Because here's what Josh just said about Kiwi Farms.
[00:50:36]  If he deletes my thread on Kiwi Farms right now, the detractors go somewhere else to do something worse, correct?
[00:50:41]  If I ban Derek right now, the detractors won because they say, look what we did.
[00:50:46]  We researched a guy who no one would have known he had anything wrong with him by just watching Phil's streams for the record.
[00:50:52]  Derek has never once talked about any of this malicious activity on my stream.
[00:50:57]  He knows better than that.
[00:50:58]  He doesn't bring that shit.
[00:50:59]  That's his personal life or whatever, right?
[00:51:01]  So he does not do that on my streams.
[00:51:03]  If I ban him, guess what happens?
[00:51:05]  The detractors say, we got the response we wanted.
[00:51:08]  If I may, I have a very personal, like, because there's a very comparable story to this.
[00:51:15]  The forum is having a kind of beef with this Ricada guy that you know about.
[00:51:19]  And he dug through some information and he found out that one of the users is a convicted child pornographer from the District of Columbia.
[00:51:27]  And when this was brought to my attention, I banned him.
[00:51:30]  And sure, them finding this out was a win.
[00:51:33]  You know, they won.
[00:51:34]  They got to say, oh, well, the Kiwi Farms has a pedophile.
[00:51:36]  We can prove it.
[00:51:37]  And it's true.
[00:51:38]  It's embarrassing.
[00:51:38]  But I still banned them because I don't want a pedophile in my forum.
[00:51:41]  Do you think that's a fair comparison?
[00:51:45]  It is a fair comparison.
[00:51:47]  However, what you didn't let me let me finish the statement here.
[00:51:50]  The moment I banned Derek and these detractors say we won, guess what happens?
[00:51:55]  You just gave them exactly what they wanted.
[00:51:57]  You gave them the attention they're craving, and then they move on to someone else.
[00:52:00]  But then they move on to someone else.
[00:52:02]  And then they move on to someone else and you're done.
[00:52:04]  But sometimes in life, you have to hold the L.
[00:52:07]  And sometimes bad people are, but that's just the reality.
[00:52:11]  You can't have a pedophile in your community like an open pedophile.
[00:52:15]  And you're basically admitting he's a pedophile.
[00:52:17]  Oh, no.
[00:52:18]  Let me tell you this.
[00:52:19]  Okay.
[00:52:19]  Okay.
[00:52:19]  I will say this.
[00:52:20]  I don't know anything about that because I make it a philosophy.
[00:52:24]  I do not personally research my viewers.
[00:52:26]  I think that's fucking creepy that I would spend my time every time that someone says something about someone.
[00:52:31]  I got to go search their socials.
[00:52:33]  I got to go to their YouTube page and search their history.
[00:52:35]  Wait, but sorry.
[00:52:36]  Sorry, but I don't think, okay, so you're saying people did research outside the realm of your show and whatever.
[00:52:43]  I get what you're saying there.
[00:52:45]  Well, if Derek was caught and you found out that the police found something on him and he's in the middle of a trial right now and it was, he was a pedophile, right?
[00:52:54]  And it wasn't a detractors or anything.
[00:52:57]  It was through legal whatever, right?
[00:53:00]  Then would you ban him because it wasn't detractors?
[00:53:03]  Well, how would I find out about that?
[00:53:05]  Like, how would I even know?
[00:53:06]  A band of yours goes, I live in the same city as him and I saw him on the news, for example.
[00:53:12]  What if it was Harvey Weinstein?
[00:53:14]  Like, how bad does somebody have to be before you're like, well, I don't want to associate with this guy?
[00:53:18]  You know what I mean?
[00:53:19]  So if Hitler was on my stream and was still alive, would I ban Hitler?
[00:53:22]  Yeah, if Adolf Hitler 1488 was an active user on your stream, would you ban him?
[00:53:26]  Because he's only De Fuhrer in Germany and you don't know anything about that, right?
[00:53:32]  Yeah.
[00:53:32]  I mean, you're right.
[00:53:33]  I mean, that's a good point.
[00:53:35]  But, and I, I totally understand what you're saying.
[00:53:37]  I do.
[00:53:38]  Let me tell you, I've gotten a lot of shit over this.
[00:53:40]  And here's the funny part: what the fuck does this have to do with me?
[00:53:42]  It's not even anything I've done or ever.
[00:53:44]  I got to take shit because someone got dirt on a viewer of mine who talks a lot in chat or whatever.
[00:53:49]  And again, the other things you've been told are not true.
[00:53:51]  He's not a moderator.
[00:53:52]  He doesn't regularly make any content for me.
[00:53:55]  He's had one tear maker that I made.
[00:53:58]  That's it.
[00:53:58]  Like, that's literally the extent of that.
[00:54:00]  And then he talks a little bit.
[00:54:02]  So if he does have playlists of little girls on his channel, he's creeping on little girls.
[00:54:07]  Do you disavow that behavior?
[00:54:09]  Oh, absolutely.
[00:54:10]  I do.
[00:54:10]  Absolutely.
[00:54:11]  So you disavow Derek then.
[00:54:13]  Yeah, I don't, I don't condone any of that.
[00:54:16]  But at the same time, I'm not going to go out of my way to find out who everyone is or what they do outside of their own.
[00:54:22]  We're bringing it to you.
[00:54:24]  Me and Josh have both looked at it as of yesterday, saw that it was foul and disgusting.
[00:54:31]  And now we're bringing it to you.
[00:54:33]  We're credible.
[00:54:34]  Like, I'm trying to help you.
[00:54:36]  Let me phrase it like this.
[00:54:38]  Oh, I know.
[00:54:39]  I know.
[00:54:39]  But I totally understand where you guys are going.
[00:54:41]  You are totally correct that if you ban this guy, the detractors will start looking into your viewers harder.
[00:54:47]  You are totally correct.
[00:54:49]  That is a completely accurate assessment.
[00:54:52]  But don't you wouldn't you still not want this guy to be in your community or your audience and openly known as this guy?
[00:55:04]  Because if I'll swing it the other way: if you it's a it's a it's a no-win situation.
[00:55:10]  That's correct.
[00:55:11]  If you don't ban him, if you ban him, then the detractors will look into your other viewers and you're completely accurate about that.
[00:55:17]  But if you do ban, if you don't ban him, if you do nothing, then they will just continue to bring this up with, you know, an accurate line from point A to point B.
[00:55:28]  And it will always be there and it will always haunt you.
[00:55:31]  And people will always ask, well, why the fuck doesn't he just ban this guy if he knows about him?
[00:55:35]  It is.
[00:55:36]  It's a no-win situation.
[00:55:37]  I agree.
[00:55:38]  But I think that one option is better than the other.
[00:55:41]  So to answer that, at least in my experience.
[00:55:45]  And I'm 42 years old.
[00:55:46]  I don't know how old you are, Josh, but I'm 42 years old.
[00:55:49]  I've learned in my 42 years on this planet that I would much rather deal with the devil I know than the devil I don't.
[00:55:56]  And what I mean by that is I know who Derek is.
[00:55:58]  I can't confirm or deny what you guys are saying because I've literally never.
[00:56:02]  How can you say you know who he is when you won't look into it?
[00:56:05]  I know who he is in my chat.
[00:56:07]  I know who he is as part of chatting, though.
[00:56:10]  Like if you look at his Twitter account, it's just straight up porn, Okay, I believe you.
[00:56:16]  You're telling me this now as a neutral third party, correct?
[00:56:19]  You're neutral.
[00:56:20]  You don't have to.
[00:56:22]  It's very foul.
[00:56:23]  Like, like, like, Phil, this is not like, oh, someone's kind of like an inseller weird or whatever.
[00:56:29]  It's three playlists with hundreds of videos of just little girls doing innocuous things.
[00:56:34]  It's really, it's like, it's genuinely fucking creepy.
[00:56:38]  If this is what you guys are telling me, then yeah, I'm going to ban him.
[00:56:41]  Let's go.
[00:56:46]  The devil, that was the devil I knew.
[00:56:48]  You understand?
[00:56:49]  Yeah.
[00:56:49]  So I deal with that.
[00:56:50]  I know how to deal with this guy.
[00:56:51]  Talks a lot in the chat and whatever, and it's annoying to certain people.
[00:56:54]  And I got to hear people talk about what he does in his personal life.
[00:56:57]  But now when I ban him, now I got to deal with the devil I don't know.
[00:57:01]  What's the next person who's now going to get harassed by my detractors?
[00:57:05]  And I don't want this to be like Phil's viewer hunt.
[00:57:08]  I understand that, but I think regardless of what you do, your viewers are going to get harassed.
[00:57:13]  And there's still going after your other viewers.
[00:57:15]  This happened before.
[00:57:17]  There were whales on the DSP channel who got doxed.
[00:57:20]  And I think that was one of the other things where I was kind of irritated with people on the DSP board because they were doxing.
[00:57:26]  Like, I don't remember his name, but there was a guy that gave you a lot of money.
[00:57:30]  And simply because he gave you a lot of money.
[00:57:32]  You have to understand something.
[00:57:33]  What you're describing right now is a normal day of behavior on that forum about me.
[00:57:38]  That's not like the exception to the rule.
[00:57:40]  That's literally what happens every time a whale shows up to support me.
[00:57:44]  They get doxed on your forum.
[00:57:46]  And that's why the Derek thing doesn't matter because it's like they're going to be pieces of shit no matter what.
[00:57:52]  And honestly, like we're telling you right now, I swear, Phil, we've been as nice as possible.
[00:57:58]  I got to say this Derek guy is twisted.
[00:58:03]  It's just bad news, Phil.
[00:58:05]  And like, you got to get rid of this guy.
[00:58:09]  Like, you know, you didn't know until today, but now you know.
[00:58:13]  And I'm just telling you, man.
[00:58:15]  It gets worse if you don't do anything about it.
[00:58:17]  It gets way worse if you don't get rid of him.
[00:58:20]  And quite frankly, our audience isn't going to tolerate Derek.
[00:58:23]  And I, I, and nor do I. I'm not going to tolerate Derek either.
[00:58:27]  And people, some people in chart are saying, why haven't you banned Derek from this chat?
[00:58:30]  If Derek hasn't been banned from our chat already, I advise every single mod to ban him.
[00:58:36]  Because I honestly, like, it's just this weird, creepy stuff.
[00:58:40]  Like, he's got lollycon going on on his Twitter.
[00:58:43]  He had that YouTube playlist of little girls.
[00:58:46]  And then everything he talks about is porn all the time.
[00:58:49]  And it's just a bad luck for you to be associated with it, Phil.
[00:58:53]  And I think if you were to cut this cancer off at the legs and just throw him the fuck out, I think you would win a lot of respect and support from people straight up.
[00:59:02]  And here's the thing what you just said.
[00:59:04]  So if you were to cut the cancer off, but the thing is, he's not me.
[00:59:07]  He's just a dude in my chat.
[00:59:09]  So I get what you're saying.
[00:59:12]  The only reason that association ever existed is because my detractors went and stalked the guy to figure out the information.
[00:59:18]  I'm not being sympathetic to what he's doing.
[00:59:21]  I'm sympathetic to the fact that this guy never did that in my chat.
[00:59:26]  And then the rules now are going to become, oh, well, now if you ever do anything that's deemed immoral, Phil might ban you from his chat.
[00:59:33]  But I don't want to sort of like think that.
[00:59:35]  Surpass.
[00:59:36]  This is a lot of immoral stuff.
[00:59:38]  In my opinion.
[00:59:40]  And also, you know, we have a lot of viewers here.
[00:59:43]  If someone went and found something on one of the viewers and it was like they're fucking, you know, pedophile, this, that, the other, we'd surely ban them without even the thought, right?
[00:59:53]  Especially if it came out to be true.
[00:59:55]  And you're like, okay, this guy, and it's not like it's like a rumor.
[01:00:00]  It's this guy on his main channel.
[01:00:02]  You click view channel and he's got it open.
[01:00:05]  Like he's like, here it is, guys.
[01:00:07]  And we really think that I know, I know what you're saying, that your detractors will be crazy and psychotic and go after other people, but they'll do that anyway.
[01:00:18]  And I'd respect you a lot if you just got rid of him.
[01:00:22]  And, you know, it sort of puts a precedent to I will not let people who believe in this shit in my chat.
[01:00:29]  I'm just saying the proof is like overwhelming.
[01:00:31]  Like it's undeniable when you look at it.
[01:00:34]  It's just too overwhelming to deny.
[01:00:36]  So, okay.
[01:00:37]  Done.
[01:00:38]  All right.
[01:00:38]  So, I mean, I'll be honest.
[01:00:40]  Here's my final statement on it.
[01:00:42]  It makes me sad for two reasons.
[01:00:43]  Number one, it makes me sad to know that this guy does all that shit because I heard it for like two years now.
[01:00:49]  And I'm just like, it's just the detractors, right?
[01:00:51]  They're just, maybe they're exaggerating.
[01:00:52]  They're making it up.
[01:00:53]  And I think the philosophy, I'm not going to do this.
[01:00:55]  I'm not going to look into it because if I do, I've broken my own moral code that I'm not going to look and stalk and harass my own viewers.
[01:01:02]  So that's why I haven't done it until today.
[01:01:04]  But now that you guys have said this to me, I believe you.
[01:01:06]  I don't think you have anything to gain by lying to me.
[01:01:09]  So I will be banning him when he shows up because you know, undoubtedly he's going to show up in my chat this week and I will ban him on all of my channels.
[01:01:16]  Okay.
[01:01:16]  That's a righteous decision, King.
[01:01:19]  I was like, here's why I'm sad.
[01:01:22]  All right.
[01:01:22]  To be honest with you guys, from what I know of the guy in my chat, he actually was like a good person in the chat.
[01:01:29]  And that's that is he's a nice guy.
[01:01:32]  He adds nice comments.
[01:01:33]  I mean, he's needy.
[01:01:34]  He always asks, hey, talk to me.
[01:01:36]  Why is he not talking to me?
[01:01:37]  Right.
[01:01:37]  But he has very nice, positive comments.
[01:01:39]  What?
[01:01:40]  What?
[01:01:40]  He brings candy.
[01:01:41]  Can you explain that?
[01:01:41]  What does that mean?
[01:01:43]  No, he needs a chat change.
[01:01:44]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:01:48]  No, no, no, I just understand.
[01:01:50]  If you separate that, because that was been my first time.
[01:01:53]  He's got candy for the.
[01:01:55]  This guy showed up to the chat.
[01:01:56]  He came with this entire van full of candy.
[01:01:59]  It was so nice.
[01:02:00]  Everyone got their shit.
[01:02:01]  This is like you know someone for a while and you only know.
[01:02:05]  Like, let's say you have a work, you're at work and someone at work is someone you're friendly with, right?
[01:02:09]  And you're like, wow, they're a nice guy.
[01:02:10]  Then you find out two years later that this guy's a scumbag, but like something like this.
[01:02:14]  That's the feeling I have about him.
[01:02:16]  But you guys are absolutely correct.
[01:02:18]  So I'm going to get rid of him because I trust you.
[01:02:20]  Yeah.
[01:02:22]  I appreciate that.
[01:02:23]  Josh, give us your thoughts here and then we'll go back to Phil and we'll do a few more rounds of questions here.
[01:02:29]  Just real quick here.
[01:02:30]  Tetrabacks with 25 gifts.
[01:02:33]  Wow.
[01:02:34]  Big support.
[01:02:35]  Thank you so much.
[01:02:36]  And appreciate all you here.
[01:02:38]  All right.
[01:02:38]  Sorry, go ahead.
[01:02:39]  I mean, it's not a unique problem because there's another person who has a large following called Chantal.
[01:02:45]  And she, her top moderator for years was this guy who got outed as a convicted sex offender.
[01:02:51]  And, you know, she finds out and it's like, well, that sucks.
[01:02:53]  He's been the fast of the streams for three years now.
[01:02:56]  But bye-bye.
[01:02:58]  Bye-bye.
[01:02:59]  Yeah.
[01:03:00]  Feck and twisted.
[01:03:01]  And we respect that you're doing that.
[01:03:04]  I know it's sort of like everyone was saying this.
[01:03:06]  And I get it.
[01:03:07]  You don't want to listen to your detractors because they do exaggerate or lie about some stuff.
[01:03:11]  Sure.
[01:03:12]  So you're like, but we're just telling you straight out this is a 110%.
[01:03:17]  It's not even question.
[01:03:18]  But yeah, I respect that, man.
[01:03:20]  Okay.
[01:03:21]  Fair enough.
[01:03:22]  Yeah.
[01:03:23]  Do you have any other questions for Josh Phil specifically about the forum or about?
[01:03:30]  Yeah, like, like, for example, like, there's a couple of specific instances I'd like to bring up and take, get his take on it.
[01:03:36]  So, for example, one of the things that's happened over the last couple of years is that my detractors have been harassing extended family members that myself and my wife have absolutely no interaction with whatsoever.
[01:03:50]  Okay.
[01:03:50]  For the record, my wife does not have interaction with her family members.
[01:03:55]  She has like there's history there, and there's a reason she doesn't talk to them.
[01:03:59]  She moved on from having other family.
[01:04:01]  You know what I'm saying?
[01:04:02]  Like, it's a situation, personal situation.
[01:04:04]  I'm not going to tell you what it is, but there's a reason for it, a good reason for it.
[01:04:07]  Okay.
[01:04:08]  My detractors went out of their way.
[01:04:10]  And of course, it's public information to find out that she has a sister.
[01:04:14]  Okay.
[01:04:15]  They then contacted the sister, told the sister about where we live, who I am, all of our fucking contact information and shit.
[01:04:23]  They've gone on the sister and goaded her to do streaming.
[01:04:26]  They've thrown the sister money.
[01:04:28]  And if you really want to know how it all started, it was my thread on Kiwi Farms because they found all that information and they posted it up there.
[01:04:35]  And now is this the woman that a user from the Kiwi Farms had sex with?
[01:04:43]  I have no idea.
[01:04:44]  I don't know.
[01:04:45]  There's a thread.
[01:04:46]  And I want to say it's someone related to Kat that somebody hunted down and had sex with.
[01:04:51]  Yeah, and there's pictures of it on the forum.
[01:04:52]  I think I banned that guy.
[01:04:53]  Do you see what I mean?
[01:04:54]  This is the kind of shit that shows up on my forum.
[01:04:58]  What does this have to do with anything with us?
[01:05:00]  We have no association with this person.
[01:05:03]  We don't talk with this person.
[01:05:05]  To our knowledge, this person might have some issues.
[01:05:07]  And so we don't want to be associated with this person.
[01:05:10]  So why is any of this existing on Kiwi Farms?
[01:05:13]  Is that not like the level that you would think, wow, that's kind of extreme.
[01:05:16]  This shouldn't be in the Dark Side Phil forum.
[01:05:18]  What does that even have to do with Dark Side Phil?

=== Removing Harmful Content Online (06:43) ===

[01:05:21]  Go ahead, Josh.
[01:05:22]  I mean, I did ban him, but I can't like unfuck her sister, you know?
[01:05:27]  It's already happened.
[01:05:29]  It's already done and posted on the internet.
[01:05:30]  I can't do anything about that.
[01:05:35]  But why is it in my forum?
[01:05:36]  Because it has nothing to do with me.
[01:05:39]  It has nothing to do with me.
[01:05:41]  I mean, it does.
[01:05:42]  The events happened because she was related to your wife.
[01:05:46]  But that's not my, that's not me.
[01:05:48]  That's the, it's the dark side Phil thread.
[01:05:50]  It's not the Cat Burnell thread, right?
[01:05:54]  I mean, in some ways it is.
[01:05:56]  She's married to you, and the Bible says that you become one spirit.
[01:05:59]  So technically, she's joined to the forum.
[01:06:02]  I'm sorry, but no, that's where I got to draw the line, dude.
[01:06:05]  So now you're saying just because I have a public persona that literally anyone who has ever had an association with me in my life needs to get drawn into this drama sphere, that's bullshit.
[01:06:15]  Because that's a cope is what that is.
[01:06:17]  Because you know that having family members that you don't have any association with being drawn into drama is bullshit.
[01:06:23]  Come on, Josh.
[01:06:24]  Just fess up and be like, yeah, that's extreme.
[01:06:26]  That definitely shouldn't have been on there.
[01:06:29]  I mean, that guy should not have done that, but the fact that it happened and that he recorded it and posted it on the internet, it doesn't matter if it's on the forum or not.
[01:06:37]  Like that happened.
[01:06:39]  Okay.
[01:06:39]  It could be on the internet.
[01:06:41]  Does it belong on the Dark Side Phil forum and should it still be there right now?
[01:06:47]  That is probably the most accurate position to put it.
[01:06:51]  And you can't put a genie back in the bottle.
[01:06:54]  You just can't.
[01:06:54]  That's not how it works.
[01:06:56]  But is it there right now?
[01:06:58]  I believe so.
[01:07:00]  Probably.
[01:07:01]  And should it be in your face?
[01:07:02]  Yes or no?
[01:07:03]  Should it be on a forum about me?
[01:07:06]  I mean, yeah, If you're throwing darts and you throw that dart, the bullseye for that is probably going to be like where it lands is going to be closer to you than anybody else.
[01:07:15]  Like, where else is it going to go?
[01:07:17]  Like, categorically speaking, where does it go?
[01:07:20]  More, I'm going to be like, very frank with you.
[01:07:23]  That is an ultimate code because basically what you just said is anything goes.
[01:07:27]  That's like saying, I was walking down the street and I looked at a guy and I bunched nudged him.
[01:07:32]  Oops, he could be on Kiwi Farms tomorrow because I nudged the guy walking down the street.
[01:07:36]  He should be doxed.
[01:07:37]  Like, I mean, with Chris Chan, one time he took a picture of a black woman at a BK and posted it on the internet and said, This woman gave me poor service.
[01:07:46]  The trolls should dox her.
[01:07:48]  And they did.
[01:07:49]  And it's on the forum to this day.
[01:07:50]  Like, two years later.
[01:07:52]  Chris Chan took the picture of the woman, posted it on the internet.
[01:07:56]  That makes it appropriate to Christian to post on his forum.
[01:08:00]  I have absolutely no association with this woman.
[01:08:03]  I don't know her.
[01:08:03]  I will never speak with her.
[01:08:05]  She has nothing to do with our lives.
[01:08:07]  We don't speak with her.
[01:08:08]  She disowned that relationship.
[01:08:10]  You are allowing people to now go outside the realm of what the forum threat is supposed to be and just toss anything on there.
[01:08:17]  Say, what was on the internet?
[01:08:18]  It's free speech.
[01:08:19]  No, You're allowing systems.
[01:08:21]  Literally harassment.
[01:08:23]  You're allowing systematic harassment is what you're doing with your forum.
[01:08:26]  I'm not allowing anything.
[01:08:27]  If someone goes out and harasses, you know, people and talks about it on the forum, they do get banned.
[01:08:33]  But it's on the forum right now.
[01:08:36]  Yeah, I'm pretty sure the guy got damned.
[01:08:39]  But you said the content is still on the forum.
[01:08:41]  You banned the guy that posted the content, but you left the content up.
[01:08:44]  I mean, yeah.
[01:08:45]  What am I going to do with it?
[01:08:46]  Pretend it didn't happen.
[01:08:47]  So you never.
[01:08:47]  Oh, so this is interesting because I didn't even know this.
[01:08:50]  So what you're saying is if someone violates the forum rules, you will ban them, but you do not remove the infringing or the bad content.
[01:08:56]  You leave it there?
[01:08:57]  It depends on a concept of harm reduction.
[01:09:02]  If it is, for instance, I'll give you two adjacent perspectives.
[01:09:06]  Let's say that somebody has sex with Kat's cousin or whatever and posts that on the internet.
[01:09:11]  Well, that's out there.
[01:09:12]  It's going to get proliferated around.
[01:09:14]  It's going to get spread regardless of what happens.
[01:09:16]  If someone posts noon images of their own girlfriend randomly in the forum, that would be against the forum rules.
[01:09:23]  And it would then be prudent to delete them because it's just a harmful use of the site without any connection or purpose.
[01:09:31]  But when it comes specifically to content about high-profile people, there is literally no reason.
[01:09:37]  There's no good being done there.
[01:09:41]  You don't think there's good being done to remove that content from that forum right now?
[01:09:44]  You don't think that that would be in the best interests of everyone involved?
[01:09:48]  Of this woman who they're actually stalking and doing things to to get content?
[01:09:52]  You don't think, and she has nothing to do with us.
[01:09:54]  Well, when you, when you say stalking, there is no coordination to do this.
[01:09:59]  This guy said, I'm going to go, I'm going to contact this woman.
[01:10:03]  And I think he found like her profile in a hookup site or something.
[01:10:07]  And it's like, he didn't conspire.
[01:10:11]  He didn't use the forum as a tool to accomplish this.
[01:10:14]  He did it.
[01:10:15]  And then he talked about it on the internet.
[01:10:16]  And there's no way to undo that.
[01:10:20]  I don't know.
[01:10:21]  To me, okay.
[01:10:23]  Is it revenge porn, though?
[01:10:25]  It could be, but in revenge porn as a crime does not exist.
[01:10:30]  Maybe in some states, but at a federal level, there exists a tort of non-consensual pornography.
[01:10:36]  So if she was unaware that he was recording, she could sue him under that tort, but she could not sue the platform.
[01:10:43]  And she may even be able to get a court order to take things down because sometimes they do that.
[01:10:47]  And if I get a court order, then I get a court order.
[01:10:48]  And that's just what it is.
[01:10:49]  I remember like, hasn't Aid Zero tried to take, I know you can't probably talk, but hasn't she tried to take legal action against him?
[01:10:56]  She's tried to invoke VAWA, which is called the Violence Against Women's Act.
[01:10:59]  And that's the act that has this tort for non-consensual pornography.
[01:11:03]  But as I explained, it's a torque between two parties that doesn't involve the platform.
[01:11:07]  And it may result in a court order to remove content.
[01:11:11]  But the tricky thing with revenge pornography in particular is that the person photographed does not own the copyright.
[01:11:18]  The pornographer does.
[01:11:19]  So, unless the pornographer wants it down, it's a copyright issue.
[01:11:23]  It is literally a copyright issue, usually.
[01:11:26]  And there's famous cases where people have bought the rights to their pornography so that they could use copyright to take it down.
[01:11:32]  But if there's no cooperation there, then that can't happen.
[01:11:35]  Wow.
[01:11:36]  But in generally speaking, if it's pure malice and no association with anything tangentially related to the forum, then it will get taken down.
[01:11:45]  But if, again, if it's a high-profile person, there's nothing I can do about it.
[01:11:49]  Like, it's out there.
[01:11:51]  Well, first of all, that statement is false.
[01:11:53]  There is something you could do about it.
[01:11:54]  You could remove it from your forum right now, and then people would have to seek it out elsewhere.
[01:11:57]  Again, it's the notoriety of QI Farms.
[01:11:59]  We discussed this.
[01:12:01]  If I started censoring things, people would go to an alternative site.

=== Notoriety of Kiwi Farms (13:00) ===

[01:12:04]  I don't censor things, so they stay on the forum where there's a moderating spirit to it.
[01:12:09]  That's correct.
[01:12:10]  So, basically, what you're saying is because it's on your site, you feel you're the best person on this planet to be moderating this kind of content.
[01:12:18]  You're the best man for the job.
[01:12:20]  No one else could do better than you, and therefore, that's why you feel you have to do it.
[01:12:23]  That's a deep philosophical question that was raised by Christopher Hitchens.
[01:12:27]  Who among you would you select as your censor?
[01:12:29]  Um, I select myself.
[01:12:30]  I don't think that there's another person on the forum who's better capable of doing what I do than I do.
[01:12:35]  I'm not saying your forum, I'm saying, in general, do you think there's anyone better who could be a personal personality?
[01:12:41]  If there's a more capable person, I don't know him.
[01:12:45]  Okay, because what look, this leads to a question: like, why do you continue to own and operate Kiwi Farms?
[01:12:51]  To my knowledge, you got you have been through the ringer with this thing.
[01:12:55]  People are really coming after you legally.
[01:12:57]  They're trying to take this site down because of stuff that's been on it, and you just keep going.
[01:13:02]  You've gone from host to host, getting kicked off, going here, going there.
[01:13:07]  Why do you keep maintaining this site if it's causing you so much pain and problems?
[01:13:10]  Because I love it, it's the best site on the internet.
[01:13:14]  So, you just love drama and gossip so much that you feel like that's your thing and you just want to keep it going.
[01:13:20]  I think the site is one of the most entertaining sites that has ever existed.
[01:13:24]  Um, I use it every single day.
[01:13:26]  I post about like three to five times a day, depending.
[01:13:30]  Um, I keep up to date with a lot of the stuff, not everything, but I do keep abreast.
[01:13:34]  I do a podcast about stuff that happens on the forum.
[01:13:37]  Um, I sometimes you've said that it hasn't made you the happiest in life, right?
[01:13:45]  But sometimes it's cost you a lot of opportunities in life, and sometimes you've been sad about the state of it, right?
[01:13:52]  I mean, yeah, I mean, sometimes it's like there are days like during Drop Kiwi Farms.
[01:13:56]  There was a time where it was like 3 a.m. where I was at, and I was literally just sitting with my hand in my head staring at a terminal that couldn't connect to the IP address.
[01:14:05]  I'm just thinking, what the fuck is the next step?
[01:14:07]  Um, but I continue to work at it because I enjoy my site.
[01:14:13]  And during that time where my site was down, I tried to use other sites out of necessity.
[01:14:18]  Like, okay, I want to talk to people, I want to socialize a bit.
[01:14:21]  So, I went to Discords, I went to Reddit, and I realized, God, all these places suck ass, and I hate them.
[01:14:27]  And my forum is the best site on the internet, so I got to bring it back up no matter what.
[01:14:33]  All right, back to you, Phil.
[01:14:35]  What do you think about what Josh is saying here?
[01:14:38]  Here's the thing: we're never going to come to any kind of an agreement because it sounds to me like Josh and I come from different places of morality.
[01:14:46]  This isn't a legal issue, it's not.
[01:14:48]  I know for a fact that most of the stuff that's been put on the forum about me is legal.
[01:14:52]  There is some stuff that has been illegal.
[01:14:54]  All right, let's be clear here.
[01:14:55]  There actually has been information that people broke laws to get, and that should never have been put on there, okay?
[01:15:01]  But as for the legality of most of it, you know, legally, I don't know how much they could really ever come after you, Josh.
[01:15:07]  And, you know, that's not really what my issue is.
[01:15:09]  My issue is morality.
[01:15:11]  That we, I, I don't know if these guys will agree with me, but I can tell you from my own personal perspective, there, that site, your website, Kiwi Farms, I am telling you here 100% has hurt me and my family.
[01:15:24]  100%.
[01:15:25]  It's hurt my business as well.
[01:15:26]  These, this is not me trying to get any sympathy from you, Josh.
[01:15:31]  I'm telling you, your website has outright definitively hurt myself, my family, and my business.
[01:15:37]  And it continues to do so because it's the focal point for when people want to hurt us.
[01:15:42]  That's the first place they go.
[01:15:44]  Okay.
[01:15:45]  So I'm going to give you an analogy that I've been talking about on my streams recently.
[01:15:50]  Maybe you could kind of understand my perspective.
[01:15:52]  Okay.
[01:15:53]  So let's say that I was rich and famous and I wanted to be like a philanthropist.
[01:15:57]  Okay.
[01:15:58]  And I wanted to open up a community center in a local area because, you know, I thought it would help the community out.
[01:16:03]  It's the best thing.
[01:16:04]  It's the best community center ever.
[01:16:06]  But what happens is the people, okay, good.
[01:16:09]  The people here who go to the community center keep getting into fights.
[01:16:13]  They keep beating the shit out of each other.
[01:16:15]  Then, okay, we get it cleaned up.
[01:16:16]  We get in there.
[01:16:17]  That shouldn't have been there.
[01:16:18]  All right.
[01:16:18]  But then the next week, there's a knife fight.
[01:16:20]  Someone gets stabbed.
[01:16:21]  Someone's hurt.
[01:16:22]  Oh my God, that sucks.
[01:16:23]  Let's clean it up.
[01:16:24]  Let's clean it up.
[01:16:24]  So it's not one times, two times.
[01:16:26]  This happens hundreds of times.
[01:16:28]  People are actually getting hurt at this community center.
[01:16:30]  And despite all of your efforts over the years to keep this community center a clean place, a fun place, a place where people are actually getting meaningful stuff out of it, god damn it, it's out of control and you know it.
[01:16:43]  Do you keep that community center open and people continue to get hurt or do you close the community center?
[01:16:49]  What would you do?
[01:16:50]  I mean, right now, the forum is probably the tamest it's ever been.
[01:16:55]  Like as far as like, back in the day, you got to understand back when the site was smaller, we could get away with a lot more.
[01:17:02]  And as time has gone on and on, and as you know, we've gotten more attention, I've had to stick closer to the rules, you know, and be more careful about what I say and more careful about what I let people say on the forum.
[01:17:17]  You're saying like, oh, well, this community center sounds like a coliseum where you're just letting in the lions to tear at people.
[01:17:23]  And you're just when people get mangled, they just sweep the bodies away and bring in the next gladiators or whatever.
[01:17:30]  Really, over time, the site has gotten bigger, but also a lot more tame.
[01:17:34]  And even your board is a lot more tame.
[01:17:36]  So I would disagree.
[01:17:38]  Now, we can get away with more.
[01:17:41]  What do you mean by that?
[01:17:42]  You used to be able to get away with more.
[01:17:45]  Oh, yeah, sure.
[01:17:46]  I mean, during the day, the site used to have people who are much more actively engaged in trolling.
[01:17:50]  And I would turn a blind eye to it.
[01:17:51]  But that hasn't been the case for like eight plus years now.
[01:17:54]  We've really had to be more careful about what we do.
[01:17:58]  Okay.
[01:17:58]  All right, go ahead.
[01:17:59]  What was your second point you were going to make, Josh?
[01:18:01]  I'm sorry I cut you off, but I was just the I mean, the other part is that you said, well, the Kiwi Farms has done harm to you.
[01:18:09]  The Kiwi Farms is a collection of assets and licenses in the Zen 40 forum software.
[01:18:16]  That's the Kiwi Farms.
[01:18:17]  But there are people on it who I do believe, I completely believe you, have done harm to you, especially, like I said, people who choose to go after your supporters.
[01:18:25]  I think OIC was the guy that they say they all hate the most.
[01:18:29]  And I do believe that causes harm to you when people go after you.
[01:18:32]  But I think if you were to name your top detractors and the people who are actively doing the most harm to you, you would find that most of them probably don't even have a presence on the forum.
[01:18:41]  Now, maybe, you know, over time, the most damaging information and stuff has happened on the forum.
[01:18:47]  But it's not the forum.
[01:18:49]  It's people on the forum.
[01:18:51]  And that's the argument that it's not the gun that committed the crime.
[01:18:56]  It's the person who shot the weapon.
[01:18:58]  Absolutely correct.
[01:19:01]  I want to say something.
[01:19:03]  Because you've expressed in the past, Josh, that you might want to move on from the Kiwi farms one day, that it holds you back potentially from having a family, from having a normal life.
[01:19:16]  Is that still your plan to eventually move away from the forum or?
[01:19:21]  Well, right now, I mean, it depends on how things go.
[01:19:25]  Right now, things are looking up and there's a there's a potential that I can make things work, you know?
[01:19:31]  Every day seems a little bit brighter and there's ups and downs, but overall the trend from early this year to now and from that time last year to then has been an upwards trend.
[01:19:43]  Everything seems to be turning around.
[01:19:46]  And yeah, I mean, if there ever came a point where it's like the forum is the reason I cannot progress in life, then I would have to move on from it.
[01:19:55]  But right now, there's nothing that I want to do that is getting that the forum is getting in the way of.
[01:20:01]  Okay.
[01:20:02]  I'll ask you this too.
[01:20:03]  Because I, you know, because there's some tough questions for Phil.
[01:20:05]  I'm going to give you a couple.
[01:20:07]  Do you ever feel trapped by the Kiwi farms?
[01:20:11]  Like, do you ever feel like maybe the users kind of force your hand in a certain way or you can't run it the way that you might want to run it?
[01:20:20]  Because if you do it that way, people will come after you from the site.
[01:20:26]  As a whole, no, I don't feel like that.
[01:20:30]  I feel that most people have a very, very, very high level of trust in me.
[01:20:35]  And if I make certain decisions, even if it's unpopular, the majority, the overwhelming majority of people would understand.
[01:20:42]  There are certain pockets where people are less cooperative.
[01:20:44]  And that's the DSP board, basically.
[01:20:47]  And maybe also the article, the political area of the site.
[01:20:50]  But you never feel like you're a hostage king.
[01:20:53]  Like they're putting it, like you're being forced to keep running the site.
[01:20:57]  I can bring it down anytime and disappear in an instant.
[01:21:01]  People never know what country I'm in, what my name is.
[01:21:03]  I could disappear in a second.
[01:21:05]  I don't feel – it's the other way.
[01:21:07]  You're stuck with me.
[01:21:10]  Nobody else can run this shit here.
[01:21:16]  All right.
[01:21:16]  All right.
[01:21:17]  Anything else, Phil, that you have for Josh or you want to confront him about or anything?
[01:21:22]  I mean, again, this wasn't really about being a hostile confrontation.
[01:21:26]  I wanted him to understand that his site is the facilitation of a lot of hateful content towards myself, my family members, and my business.
[01:21:35]  I know he's trying to clean it up.
[01:21:37]  I will agree with him.
[01:21:38]  I did check the forums before this discussion, and it did look a lot cleaner than it had previously.
[01:21:45]  But for me, I've now been through this so many years.
[01:21:48]  It's like, what's the next thing?
[01:21:49]  Because you know, if so, right now, if someone were to hack one of my accounts, the first place you would find out about it is Kiwi Farms because they'd be like, look at all the information I got for Phil's accounts.
[01:21:58]  I know I probably shouldn't put on the internet, but it's on Kiwi Farms.
[01:21:59]  It's allowed.
[01:22:00]  Right.
[01:22:01]  Yeah.
[01:22:01]  But I don't think he's ever going to, I did not think our conversation was going to lead that.
[01:22:06]  Like, Josh, oh, I'm going to close his forum today.
[01:22:08]  That's not even what I was going to do.
[01:22:10]  I got to say, so is Phil's bank leak still up on Kiwi Farms?
[01:22:15]  Like, are all of his transactions laid out on there?
[01:22:17]  Or what was the moderation decision on that?
[01:22:20]  They are.
[01:22:21]  I mean, it's another thing where it's like, if I delete it, it gets reposted to Twitter.
[01:22:26]  It gets shared around by the detractors.
[01:22:28]  It probably ends up on a different website.
[01:22:32]  That was one of the things where I got angry with people in the forum.
[01:22:34]  It's like, it's not okay to hack someone's bank account.
[01:22:37]  And it's like, I don't care if they're playing fucking WWE on mobile or whatever the fuck.
[01:22:41]  Whatever justification you have for trying to prove that he's putting all this money into some fucking gotcha game.
[01:22:49]  It does not justify a federal computer fraud act violation.
[01:22:54]  You know what I mean?
[01:22:56]  Well, it's psychotic, though, isn't it?
[01:22:58]  Like, where does it end?
[01:22:59]  Like, where does it end?
[01:23:01]  Because isn't there some guy also?
[01:23:02]  I want to bring this to get this in as well.
[01:23:05]  Isn't there some guy who's fucking with Phil's internet?
[01:23:08]  Like turning it on and off and shit?
[01:23:10]  And he posted it on Kiwi Farms, the evidence that it was.
[01:23:12]  Yeah.
[01:23:13]  That's another thing where it's like, you're a fucking employee with Comcast.
[01:23:17]  They have logs.
[01:23:18]  They can see in the fucking logs that you're doing this.
[01:23:21]  Why are you, why are you doing what?
[01:23:23]  What fucking gain is there in doing this?
[01:23:27]  And we caught him.
[01:23:28]  The tech and I went into my modem.
[01:23:30]  During a tech visit because we didn't know what the hell was going on.
[01:23:33]  And we saw all the logins from this guy.
[01:23:35]  And we're like, this guy doesn't realize that we have evidence that he logged in.
[01:23:38]  Yeah, does he not think that the most, the largest ISP in the United States doesn't keep fucking logs when people log into a consumer modem?
[01:23:45]  Like, are you nuts?
[01:23:50]  I will say, though, Josh, at a certain point, with these people, like, they don't really fit into the culture of the rest of the site.
[01:23:57]  Some of these detractors are committing fucking crimes, making you fucking look bad.
[01:24:02]  Do you ever consider just washing your fucking hands of this shit?
[01:24:06]  Because it's like...
[01:24:07]  With the DSP board in particular?
[01:24:09]  Yeah.
[01:24:09]  Yeah.
[01:24:09]  I mean, it's gotten close.
[01:24:12]  You know, like, what?
[01:24:13]  Like, walk us through some of these situations where you've got close in your thinking to where it's like, you know, God looked at the world and he regretted what he made and the flood came and washed this fucking shit away and there was a rainbow.
[01:24:26]  Like, you know, walk this to where you came close to sending that flood.
[01:24:31]  I think I already have.
[01:24:32]  It's the guy that hooked up with the cousin or whatever that was bizarre.
[01:24:36]  The Comcast shit was fucking bizarre.
[01:24:39]  and the bank leaks were fucking bizarre um the um the issue the sad thing is josh and i know this from my personal experience what they're doing is they're literally making it a competition at this point Who can do the most fucked up thing?
[01:24:55]  Even though they know they might even get in trouble for it, they don't even care anymore.
[01:24:59]  They just will keep escalating as far as they can get away with.
[01:25:02]  Even if they don't get away with it, that Comcast guy got shit can, you know?

=== Gambling Addiction and WWE (09:21) ===

[01:25:05]  But they don't care.
[01:25:06]  They know if I do the most extreme thing, I can post it on Kiwi Farms.
[01:25:10]  They used to do this in my video comments.
[01:25:12]  Let's say the most extreme doxing, racist thing in Phil's video comments.
[01:25:16]  So there's only toxic shit in his comments.
[01:25:18]  And then people would highlight that and put it into tractor videos, right?
[01:25:21]  That's what they're now doing with Kiwi Farms because I don't allow that shit in my content.
[01:25:25]  They found a neutral place that they can do it.
[01:25:28]  And this competition is going to continue because you're allowing it.
[01:25:31]  Well, people are allowed to say whatever they want.
[01:25:33]  I'm not going to, there's no, there's no world where I would step on and say like, oh, you can't say XYZ in regards to just like discussion post.
[01:25:42]  But that's not what we're talking about.
[01:25:43]  We're not talking about discussion posts.
[01:25:44]  We're talking about what we just said.
[01:25:46]  Bank leaks, employees committing horrible acts against me and posting the evidence on your site.
[01:25:52]  People fucking with extended family members.
[01:25:54]  That's not a forum post.
[01:25:56]  I mean, I agree that's like a weird game.
[01:25:58]  I think like the people trying to prove like expenditure, like the main, I think like the holy grail for like the detractors, and this is something that exists outside the forum, is the holy grail is like proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a majority of your spending goes to like mobile games.
[01:26:17]  I think that's it.
[01:26:18]  And they're really like hyper-focused on that.
[01:26:24]  Yeah.
[01:26:25]  No, I will, I will agree there.
[01:26:27]  It's just, you know, it's, I get it because that's the one thing that they feel like they got me on because I'm not going to open my fucking documents and show you everything in my personal life because then that opens up.
[01:26:38]  The thing is, you shouldn't have to open up any of the fucking documents.
[01:26:42]  You shouldn't have to show your financial statements.
[01:26:44]  But this shit's been going on long enough, Phil.
[01:26:47]  Like you play WWE champions.
[01:26:49]  You know what I mean?
[01:26:50]  Right.
[01:26:50]  I don't, I don't think.
[01:26:52]  Let's go.
[01:26:53]  I don't think it's a problem that you play.
[01:26:55]  It doesn't matter.
[01:26:56]  And that you spend your money on WWE champions.
[01:26:59]  It's your money.
[01:27:00]  It's your supporters, and you should just be open about it because them.
[01:27:05]  Yeah, you're right.
[01:27:07]  The reason that it became so big is because at first I said I didn't.
[01:27:10]  And so, oh, again, with these people, it's the absolute.
[01:27:13]  It's either you black or white.
[01:27:14]  So, because at one point I said I didn't, I always said I didn't.
[01:27:17]  No, actually, over the years, I have admitted I do play it, I do spend money on it.
[01:27:22]  Now, what they say about it is wrong, they over-exaggerate to get that shock reaction of you know from the viewership.
[01:27:28]  They're purposefully saying, Oh, he spent that video.
[01:27:31]  I just looked at it yesterday from Duty.
[01:27:33]  He says, Phil spent $2,448 on WWE Champions this weekend.
[01:27:37]  No, I didn't come this just this weekend.
[01:27:40]  He's saying I spent that.
[01:27:41]  Like, no, what the fuck are you talking about?
[01:27:45]  Even if you did, though, you're a big baller, though.
[01:27:48]  If you did, you're kidding, like them.
[01:27:52]  Honestly, Phil, at this point, I will just stay start streaming WWE Champions.
[01:27:59]  In reality, I had the conversation with my viewer yesterday.
[01:28:03]  I says, What I might do is make a new account and just start over and show people how you built it up.
[01:28:09]  Show them how you build it and then play WWE Champions all the live long time.
[01:28:13]  I mean, that's like the serious long-term point of contention, though.
[01:28:16]  Is that they because I think the down from the rafters account happened during or right immediately before the bankruptcy saga.
[01:28:22]  So, people were like, Well, you're asking for this financial help, but it's it's like going to this game.
[01:28:27]  Like, was it ever like problem free?
[01:28:29]  Did you ever have like a problemed relationship with gaming?
[01:28:33]  When you mean that, do you mean what do you mean, like addiction to mobile games?
[01:28:37]  Because I remember in particular with spending, not just a clip of you said about super card, not champions, but you said with super cards, you were embarrassed with how much you spent on super card.
[01:28:48]  That is correct.
[01:28:49]  Super card, it was like about a year, two years where I was spending on the game and playing the shit out of it.
[01:28:55]  And it was like, I was, I definitely was addicted to it.
[01:28:57]  You know, I'll admit it now.
[01:28:59]  I was playing the fuck out of it for no reason to win an event in Supercard, you had to play for like eight hours straight without even interrupting.
[01:29:06]  I would be like, I'd be streaming, and I have to keep tapping the screen when I'm streaming this to fucking play the fucking thing.
[01:29:13]  That's how stupid these games are.
[01:29:14]  Eight hours straight, yeah.
[01:29:16]  In order to rim, you would have to be a nut job, basically.
[01:29:21]  And guess what?
[01:29:22]  Guess what?
[01:29:22]  The best card I ever got was Hogan.
[01:29:27]  Let's get those Hogan's, brother.
[01:29:30]  Greatest wrestler of all time who's helping make America great again, brother.
[01:29:36]  Fuck you.
[01:29:36]  But, but here's the thing: I have made a lot of bad financial decisions along the way.
[01:29:41]  Many, yeah, I had stupid things, wrapped up credit cards when I moved out here.
[01:29:45]  I furnished a house way too expensive.
[01:29:46]  I did dumb things.
[01:29:48]  My plan was to move across the country, charge everything to a credit card, and continuously balance the credit cards by doing balance transfers for two, three years at zero percent interest until I beat them all up.
[01:29:59]  Genius move there it was, brother.
[01:30:01]  Yeah, I've been there.
[01:30:06]  So, I mean, I fucked my credit up, I fucked all my clients up.
[01:30:10]  It's my fault.
[01:30:11]  I went through the bankruptcy, but these guys now have realized this is their ongoing thing.
[01:30:17]  They can never, they know, I'm not going to open up all my information for them, so they will just say it forever.
[01:30:24]  So, for me, I mean, you notice, did you notice?
[01:30:26]  I made a video last night.
[01:30:27]  Oh, did you guys see yesterday?
[01:30:28]  I actually did pull for a Hogan live on stream.
[01:30:33]  Now, what we got to do is get it on camera this time, right?
[01:30:36]  Well, like I said, go the full way.
[01:30:38]  Let's get a new account, fresh account, and start playing it.
[01:30:42]  And I guarantee you, people will support with contributions like never before to get you the best Hogan's, yeah, like Boston Jack, how they pay him.
[01:30:53]  Are going to be the best in the world at WWE Championship, which I don't even take time.
[01:31:00]  I really don't care that much about the game anymore.
[01:31:02]  You know, years ago, I did.
[01:31:03]  I don't care about it that way.
[01:31:05]  I was just so happy, Phil.
[01:31:06]  You love it.
[01:31:07]  I love it.
[01:31:08]  I play WWE Champions.
[01:31:10]  I take the viewers' money.
[01:31:12]  I do Hogan pulls.
[01:31:13]  Not only can I do Hogan pulls with your money, viewers.
[01:31:16]  I want you to understand.
[01:31:17]  I take your money and I recklessly bet it on football.
[01:31:22]  Like, I am a gambler through and through.
[01:31:24]  That's why this show is called the King.
[01:31:27]  Kino Casino.
[01:31:30]  I buy video games.
[01:31:32]  If Phil is genuinely a gambling addict and he's losing all his money, that's it's it's something that's actually kind of sad.
[01:31:40]  Like if you like, it's it's something where these games are designed and gambling in general and casinos are designed to fucking rewire your brain's dopamine system.
[01:31:53]  Like Josh knows with Bossman Jack, like what the depths of this gambling can be.
[01:32:00]  Like, you know, Phil isn't at that level.
[01:32:02]  You know, he still has a roof over his head.
[01:32:05]  He still has food on his plate.
[01:32:07]  But I don't know if it's really like the most evil moral failing because at the end of the day, the only person he's hurting with that is himself.
[01:32:16]  Yeah.
[01:32:17]  That's it.
[01:32:18]  Even if that, by the way, so when you buy games, like I buy games on Steam and PS5 or whatever, right?
[01:32:24]  Like, sure, I'm wasting money, but I have fun.
[01:32:27]  I'm enjoying, you know, like you buy things that might be a waste of money for enjoyment.
[01:32:34]  Well, but otherwise, why buy anything?
[01:32:36]  But how many detractors smoke cigarettes?
[01:32:39]  Exactly.
[01:32:39]  How many drinks are weed or whatever?
[01:32:41]  You know, how many get scratch tickets from the corner store?
[01:32:44]  Like, people in this world have a lot of vices.
[01:32:48]  And there are, and this is where, like, us and Josh, like, we're talking about people that are actual like pedophiles or like degenerate, like, bestiality scumbags and shit like this.
[01:33:01]  So it's hard for us to crack down on a guy who allegedly has a gambling addiction and like with the WWE champions.
[01:33:11]  Like, I don't know how you feel about that, Josh, but that's kind of my piece on it.
[01:33:15]  I don't know if you want to chime in.
[01:33:17]  Yeah, I mean, especially because he does, he doesn't like stream it.
[01:33:20]  I don't know.
[01:33:21]  Phil, have you ever seen Bossman Jack?
[01:33:22]  Do you know who that is?
[01:33:24]  No.
[01:33:24]  No, I don't.
[01:33:25]  No.
[01:33:25]  He's he's like proper into gambling, like proper gambling, like house games and stuff.
[01:33:31]  And it's actually shocking to see like what a toll it's taken on him physically and mentally over like just one year.
[01:33:37]  And all he does, and all he does is like play like cryptocurrency slots and stuff.
[01:33:42]  And the sad thing about like the mobile games is that you walk into a casino and you hear the coins clanking and the slot machines and shit, and you know that you're in a game of chance.
[01:33:50]  But with the mobile games, they dress it up like you're just playing a game for fun.
[01:33:56]  But it's all psychologically manipulative to get you to spend money.
[01:34:00]  And when you spend money, of course, it's not like going up to a teller and putting up $200 and having $200 of chips to play with.
[01:34:06]  It's like every 10 minutes, hey, do you want to buy 20 one chest for five or 10 chests for 10?
[01:34:13]  It's like, like that shit is really fucking evil.
[01:34:17]  The saddest thing and the most evil thing about it is that if you're in a casino and you're gambling money, if you win, you actually have a chance to win more money that you can use in your life.

=== Endless Loop of the Name Game (03:33) ===

[01:34:27]  When you're playing these games, what did you win?
[01:34:30]  The chance to play the game some more.
[01:34:32]  It's all endless sinking money into the game.
[01:34:34]  There's no outcome that could benefit you.
[01:34:37]  You're just, you're stuck in the endless loop that you can't escape.
[01:34:40]  And that's what I think a lot of people, that's what happens to them.
[01:34:43]  It's that, I don't know if it's called the sunken cost fallacy.
[01:34:46]  Yeah, sunken cost fallacy.
[01:34:47]  I was going to say that it's like you get anchored to this game just because you've already spent like, I've already spent $1,000 on it.
[01:34:51]  I guess I might as well keep going.
[01:34:53]  Just keep going because you got to get something, get that dopamine hit.
[01:34:56]  You need it because you already spent so much.
[01:34:58]  It's messed up.
[01:34:59]  It really is.
[01:35:00]  I can't believe that it's kind of allowed to be like that, but that's the world we live in.
[01:35:05]  So was that down from the rafters account yours?
[01:35:09]  No, it's not.
[01:35:10]  It's really not mine.
[01:35:12]  I do have another account and I do spend money on it, but that is not my account.
[01:35:15]  And they've been whatever who this guy is because people have asked me all the time.
[01:35:19]  If it is you, you're the best in the world.
[01:35:22]  I know.
[01:35:24]  Why do they think it's you?
[01:35:26]  Greatest WWE champions player to have ever lived.
[01:35:30]  Why do they think it's him?
[01:35:32]  The origin story.
[01:35:33]  This is all I know is the origin story because they have so many crazy conspiracies after that I'm sure they have other.
[01:35:38]  The origin story was originally the account was actually called They Call Me DSP, which happened to be my Twitter handle.
[01:35:46]  All right.
[01:35:47]  I don't go by that anywhere else.
[01:35:48]  It's just my Twitter account was called They Call Me DSP.
[01:35:51]  And apparently that account existed for like a couple of years.
[01:35:54]  And then my detractors found it.
[01:35:56]  And they're like, we got him.
[01:35:58]  We got him now.
[01:35:59]  I remember this because the point of contention was that you can't change your name on that game.
[01:36:04]  So it had to be changed manually by support.
[01:36:07]  And they figured that after it had been found, you would ask that and they changed it on their end.
[01:36:13]  And it even had like weird artifacts in the game where it didn't change everywhere.
[01:36:16]  So it was a very suspicious looking name change.
[01:36:18]  I actually remember this for some reason.
[01:36:21]  At least being a player at the game, I can confirm you cannot change your name in the game.
[01:36:25]  Like, I don't know how that's possible.
[01:36:27]  I've tried, because think of it.
[01:36:28]  If I could change my name in the game, why not?
[01:36:30]  Then, you know, you've gotten double protection, right?
[01:36:33]  You can't.
[01:36:33]  You cannot change.
[01:36:34]  I did ask support where you changed my name.
[01:36:37]  And they said to me, oh, no, that's not a feature available.
[01:36:39]  Sorry about that.
[01:36:40]  So it sounds to me like whoever this person really is, because they were such a big spender, they maybe did a favor to them to protect.
[01:36:46]  Oh, it's our way.
[01:36:46]  We don't want to lose the whale.
[01:36:47]  So that's why they changed the name.
[01:36:49]  But I couldn't even do that myself.
[01:36:51]  So yeah, I think you're right.
[01:36:52]  I think it might have been like a behind the scenes deal or something.
[01:36:54]  But why would this guy that set up this like troll account and put so much into it want to change his name?
[01:36:59]  I don't know.
[01:37:00]  Cause here's the thing.
[01:37:01]  That's actually what I was going to say.
[01:37:02]  There's all these theories about who the guy really is.
[01:37:04]  I honestly, at this point, I can't figure it out and I don't care.
[01:37:07]  Like, I don't know if it actually is a troll.
[01:37:09]  It might be a guy who literally just has the worst fucking luck in the world to have the same name as my Twitter account.
[01:37:14]  What would be the big deal is if you just lied and said you were down from the rafters.
[01:37:20]  it's so dumb it's just like lie and say you are and then everybody can move on yeah but if But then they're going to want to see it and I can't show you that.
[01:37:29]  No, you can't.
[01:37:29]  Don't worry about it.
[01:37:32]  Never show them it, Kim.
[01:37:33]  Don't tell anyone anything.
[01:37:34]  Never show them shit.
[01:37:36]  No, no.
[01:37:37]  Listen, at this point, just lie.
[01:37:39]  Proclaim yourself the greatest WWE champions player that ever lived.
[01:37:44]  There's no harm in it.
[01:37:46]  No, I know.
[01:37:47]  But there's, again, there's also no point because people are going to know it's a lie because we're talking about it now.
[01:37:51]  So, you know.
[01:37:51]  But just like, just lie.
[01:37:53]  Just say it's you.
[01:37:55]  You played it.
[01:37:56]  Who gives a fuck?
[01:37:58]  Why would I lie and say that?
[01:37:59]  I'm going to tell you this.

=== Life Turning Around (13:27) ===

[01:38:00]  Because then we can all just move on.
[01:38:04]  If you just say it's you, just lie.
[01:38:07]  This is much like Cole Pogan.
[01:38:09]  He never lies, but he lies.
[01:38:11]  And it's just the same thing.
[01:38:12]  That's right, brother.
[01:38:13]  That's right, brother, dude.
[01:38:14]  He slammed the 900-pound giant in front of 100,000 Hulkamaniacs of Silver City Field in Detroit, Michigan, brother.
[01:38:23]  Listen, he tore every muscle out in his back as he did it.
[01:38:28]  At the end of the day, there's not one person who will stop donating to you because you're down from the rafters.
[01:38:36]  I know that.
[01:38:37]  There's not one person who's going to stop watching because you're down from the rafters.
[01:38:41]  They'll donate more.
[01:38:42]  They'll donate more.
[01:38:44]  This is a lie and just say, I have the down from the rafters account.
[01:38:51]  Yes, it is me.
[01:38:53]  I am down from the rafters.
[01:38:56]  Let's go, brother.
[01:38:57]  Yes.
[01:38:59]  It's like a weight has been lifted off his shoulders.
[01:39:03]  Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
[01:39:10]  That was duty.
[01:39:11]  Everybody bow down to you.
[01:39:14]  Bow down to the king.
[01:39:16]  You understand how stupid this thing is?
[01:39:18]  It's just like...
[01:39:18]  No, it really is!
[01:39:19]  That's why it's not.
[01:39:21]  That's why he's like, they're like, Andy, you don't understand.
[01:39:26]  He plays WWE Champions.
[01:39:28]  I'm like, is this game CP?
[01:39:31]  Like, what the fuck?
[01:39:34]  What is going on?
[01:39:35]  It's worse.
[01:39:36]  It's wrestling.
[01:39:37]  It's worse.
[01:39:38]  Wrestling is the best brother, Josh.
[01:39:40]  We're going to go to WrestleMania next year in Las Vegas.
[01:39:44]  Dude, we're going to be there together with Phil.
[01:39:47]  It's going to be great, buddy.
[01:39:49]  You better believe it.
[01:39:50]  Quarter million dollar man has gifted 20 subscribers.
[01:39:55]  Holy shit.
[01:39:56]  Thank you.
[01:39:57]  And Tetrabacks for 10 subscribers.
[01:40:01]  Big support.
[01:40:02]  Josh got some subs.
[01:40:04]  Suffer horse for 10 subs with five earlier, too.
[01:40:08]  Thank you so much.
[01:40:08]  Suffer.
[01:40:09]  Big support.
[01:40:11]  Yeah, no.
[01:40:12]  There we have it.
[01:40:13]  Phil runs the dark from the rafters account.
[01:40:16]  He lied.
[01:40:16]  He said he runs it.
[01:40:18]  We have the, he's banning Derek from chat.
[01:40:22]  And you know, a lot of people, why don't you run it like side-scrollers, brother?
[01:40:26]  Well, obviously, that wasn't very good.
[01:40:29]  It wasn't very effective.
[01:40:31]  The side-scrollers interview.
[01:40:33]  People ask, like, why didn't you run it like that?
[01:40:36]  Well, we can see that if you actually are just reasonable with Phil, that maybe Phil can work with you.
[01:40:43]  Sometimes there's uncomfortable things you have to ask people or you make a joke about someone, but you have to understand how to be reasonable in the end with anyone because there is a way to talk to people, even if you don't like them or get along or have never talked to them and don't believe in their beliefs.
[01:41:02]  But yeah, man.
[01:41:03]  You have any other questions for Phil, Josh, or Phil?
[01:41:06]  Do you have a question for Josh?
[01:41:08]  Well, let Josh go first and I'll say something.
[01:41:11]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:41:12]  Oh, man.
[01:41:12]  I'm trying to think.
[01:41:14]  I don't think so.
[01:41:15]  Because I think a lot of the big questions are all about the finances and stuff.
[01:41:21]  And if he doesn't want to talk about it, he doesn't want to talk about it.
[01:41:23]  So I don't really have any kind of angle for that.
[01:41:27]  I will ask this, though.
[01:41:28]  You said that, you know, okay, actually, I do have a question.
[01:41:32]  So you said that there's been kind of like a turnaround.
[01:41:36]  What does that mean for you?
[01:41:37]  Like, you said that things are turning around.
[01:41:39]  Is that just like in terms of perception and people's amicability towards you?
[01:41:42]  Or is that like a financial thing or is it both?
[01:41:46]  I mean, I would be very, very disingenuous if I was going to say, oh, I haven't made any extra money these past couple of weeks.
[01:41:52]  I mean, of course I have.
[01:41:54]  You know, I'm doubling, tripling in some cases what I would make on a normal stream.
[01:41:58]  That's amazing.
[01:41:59]  But for me, what's actually more important than that is to finally be treated with some level of human respect.
[01:42:06]  I didn't ever get treated with dignity for about a decade.
[01:42:09]  You know, like I'm going to have a discussion with ReviewTech USA and he says he wants to have a real discussion.
[01:42:14]  Come to find out he, oh, I can't talk with him unless I'm trapping him and having a conversation about all this fucked up stuff.
[01:42:20]  You know, like, why can't I just have a normal human conversation with someone?
[01:42:24]  What did I do that I can't be respected like a normal person?
[01:42:28]  Why can't I go on side-scrollers and be a normal guest like everyone else?
[01:42:31]  Why was I treated like some kind of a fucking criminal that needed a five-hour interrogation instead?
[01:42:36]  And that's what I feel like the turnaround is happening right now, where people are seeing me in a different light, a positive light rather than this negative attacking light.
[01:42:44]  And that feels amazing.
[01:42:45]  It's a huge weight lifted off my shoulders because I have tried so hard in the last decade to change as a person and be a better person.
[01:42:53]  I feel like I've done that, but no one wanted to acknowledge it because they just wanted to continue the meme of hate on Phil.
[01:42:59]  So, yeah, I would say that there's a turnaround in more ways than one.
[01:43:01]  And I'm really, really grateful to everyone involved, you guys, and all the viewers and everyone out there, my fans who've been along these 10 tough years.
[01:43:10]  It's all because of everyone.
[01:43:11]  It's not just me.
[01:43:12]  It's not, you know, it's just everyone together.
[01:43:14]  And it's amazing, kind of the thing that's happening right now.
[01:43:16]  I mean, you say that like you, you, the way you, you kind of poach it, like, this is at the end of 10 years.
[01:43:22]  Do you, do you feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel that you're very close to at this point?
[01:43:26]  I don't know if it's light because here's the thing.
[01:43:28]  And I said this too.
[01:43:29]  My life and my experience has gone like this.
[01:43:31]  It's called you get a big crest, a big wave of popularity and positivity, and all of a sudden, boom, you go way down.
[01:43:37]  Now you're at the bottom of the valley of shit, right?
[01:43:39]  And that's how my life has been.
[01:43:41]  Create like crests and valleys, crests and valleys.
[01:43:43]  Right now, it seems like I'm on the way up.
[01:43:45]  Maybe that's good.
[01:43:46]  Maybe it's not.
[01:43:47]  Maybe things will change overall for the better.
[01:43:49]  But I've been beat up a lot.
[01:43:50]  And because of that, I do have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that things could turn for the worst.
[01:43:54]  I don't know.
[01:43:55]  Maybe it will.
[01:43:56]  Maybe it won't, right?
[01:43:57]  That's a human thing.
[01:43:58]  We had a question from Glib and I'm just going to paraphrase it, but he essentially asked, like, do you feel like you've been living in isolation for a long time and kind of that you're interacting with very few people online and in real life?
[01:44:13]  And since you've been interacting with us and other people now, how do you feel?
[01:44:18]  Do you feel like there's been an opening up?
[01:44:20]  Does it feel good?
[01:44:21]  Yeah.
[01:44:22]  Remember, when I started on YouTube, it was the complete polar opposite of what I've been through in the last 10 years.
[01:44:27]  Everyone liked me.
[01:44:28]  I was the ultimate underdog YouTuber who blew up and every, I had tons of positive comments.
[01:44:33]  People wanted me to go to conventions so they could meet me and shake my hand and I would sign autographs and shit.
[01:44:38]  And then when I moved across the country about 10 years ago from Connecticut to Washington, it just seemed like that was when all the crap hit at once.
[01:44:45]  That this is how you don't play.
[01:44:46]  People started, you know, doxing me, started DDOS attacking me, got me swatted, false copyright strikes.
[01:44:52]  And it's 10 years where it's like, I'm waiting.
[01:44:55]  Will there ever be a break in this?
[01:44:56]  Will there ever be a turn of the tides?
[01:44:59]  And it feels like it's happening finally right now.
[01:45:01]  And it does give me great relief.
[01:45:03]  Now I can actually have open comments on my videos and on my Twitter because it's not a vast majority of shitbags crapping on me anymore.
[01:45:10]  It's actually positive people interacting with me.
[01:45:12]  This is amazing.
[01:45:13]  It really is life-changing at this point.
[01:45:16]  Oh, do you, I kind of want to vouch for Mike Clum because I spoke to him about you and because he reached out to me because he felt like he, as you notice, he was speaking to detractor channels and he, after speaking to them, he had come to the conclusion that they had an extremely negative bias towards you.
[01:45:35]  So he kind of reached out to me because they all said, don't talk to Josh.
[01:45:39]  They said, don't talk to that guy.
[01:45:40]  He sucks.
[01:45:41]  So he reached out to me to try and get like a more neutral perspective.
[01:45:44]  And I think he was really trying to do you right.
[01:45:46]  And I'm very disheartened because I did enjoy his other documentary.
[01:45:50]  I'm curious.
[01:45:51]  I totally agree.
[01:45:52]  It's my detractors who spun it the other way.
[01:45:54]  I've said nothing but positive things about my club.
[01:45:56]  I think you backed out of the documentary.
[01:45:59]  You're right.
[01:46:00]  I did.
[01:46:01]  But that had nothing to do with him.
[01:46:03]  Was it just like a you couldn't do it at that moment or were you against the idea?
[01:46:06]  You've explained this on our show before, but tell Josh what the reason was.
[01:46:09]  Yeah, sorry.
[01:46:10]  There's two reasons.
[01:46:11]  The first reason is I felt like to do that documentary, that's something that I would want to do at like the end of the road.
[01:46:19]  So it's like a cumulative thing and it covers everything.
[01:46:22]  And I don't feel like I'm at the end of my journey at all.
[01:46:24]  I feel like, you know, I'm 42 years old.
[01:46:26]  I'm planning to do this for a while.
[01:46:28]  I'm not in a desperate situation like Boogie where I needed a turnaround of my life like he was trying to do.
[01:46:32]  And that's really what his sob story documentary was going to be or tried to be.
[01:46:37]  So, number one, at the point I started working with him, and the more that we talked about it, I was like, I don't really know if this is going to be what I want or is really going to benefit me that much.
[01:46:44]  And that fits to part two.
[01:46:46]  It was going to take a lot of time and work to do.
[01:46:49]  It was going to be a lot of filming, a lot of different things.
[01:46:52]  It was going to mess with my schedule.
[01:46:54]  It was going to mess with my family life with my wife.
[01:46:56]  And to be honest, I already overworked myself.
[01:46:59]  I worked six days a week full-time on this.
[01:47:01]  And now I'm going to have less time with my wife to be doing.
[01:47:03]  I mean, he's like that's.
[01:47:04]  He gushed about how responsible you were with your schedule and how you would communicate with him about how, look, I stream for these hours and I will not interrupt these blocks of time for anything.
[01:47:16]  So it has to be outside of that.
[01:47:17]  He was very, he was very flattering about how hardworking you were.
[01:47:22]  And he said that if you're not as successful as you would like to be, it has nothing to do with how much sweat you put into it because you do put in a ton of sweat equity in your work.
[01:47:31]  That's a very nice thing for him to say.
[01:47:33]  And I will just say this, like the reason it really didn't happen is because with the insane amount of time and effort it was going to take to do that while also maintaining a business, I was afraid that the payout wasn't going to be there.
[01:47:44]  Like who knows how this documentary will be received by the internet, especially when so many people just don't like me.
[01:47:49]  No one had given me the chance yet to be seen in a different light.
[01:47:52]  People could just focus on certain parts that are really negative.
[01:47:54]  And that's the only thing anyone talks about.
[01:47:56]  I wasn't convinced that at the end of the day, with the amount of effort and time I was going to put into it, that it was going to benefit me or my business or my image.
[01:48:03]  And that's why I put the kibosh on it.
[01:48:05]  But we had actually stayed kind of amicable.
[01:48:07]  And I said we could possibly talk about stuff in the future.
[01:48:10]  I don't know what's going to happen now because no one's really like heard from him for a while.
[01:48:14]  I don't know if he's working on that EDP documentary or anything else.
[01:48:17]  But at this point, I'm not really interested in doing a documentary because I don't feel like it's time yet.
[01:48:21]  Well, I was going to suggest that since things are looking up, it doesn't have to be a comprehensive documentary, but if you're hoping to end that narrative on a more positive note, if you're feeling good about where you're at right now, where you're going, that might be worth considering.
[01:48:39]  I just thought I would throw it out there because I was interested in seeing this.
[01:48:44]  Let's see where the journey goes, right?
[01:48:46]  And if it goes well, yeah, maybe.
[01:48:48]  We'll see.
[01:48:50]  I want to go back.
[01:48:51]  Yeah, go ahead, Josh.
[01:48:52]  Sorry.
[01:48:52]  But he said that how long do you want to be DSP?
[01:48:55]  Like, just in general, like, do you see like a retirement age?
[01:48:58]  Like, you're going to cash in an IRA at like a specific age?
[01:49:01]  Or do you have like a plan for how long you're going to run it?
[01:49:06]  The thing is, like, as much as I'd like to have a plan, it seems like every time that I've laid out a plan in my life, something just smashed the fucking plan to pieces, you know, and it's like, especially the job that I have is so unpredictable.
[01:49:15]  You don't know what's going to happen.
[01:49:17]  Am I even going to be able to be a YouTube streamer for another few years?
[01:49:19]  Is YouTube going to change?
[01:49:20]  And I got to go to another format or whatever.
[01:49:23]  The truth is, at least I know that I have a dedicated group of followers who've been with me for so long that I've been able to do it no matter what, whether I'm on Twitch or on YouTube or whatever.
[01:49:31]  I know I cannot be a gamer till I die, right?
[01:49:35]  I'm going to get carpal tunnel, man.
[01:49:37]  I'm not going to have hand-eye coordination to fucking play in the Street Fighter and Call of Duty.
[01:49:42]  But what I'd like to do is branch out and do different things, which it looks like I'm actually doing right now and have the ability to do different kinds of commentary on different things, whether it's the news, whether it's politics, whether it's whatever, just commenting over videos like you guys do, you know?
[01:49:57]  And I think that that potential is there because I really haven't dabbled in it that much.
[01:50:00]  I've just been doing gaming, gaming, gaming for so long.
[01:50:03]  I don't want to be a full-time streamer forever, but I would like to have at some point at least maintain some kind of a following on the internet because I love it so much.
[01:50:11]  I absolutely love this job.
[01:50:13]  I don't want to lose that connection that I have with my audience and be able to have meaningful conversations and hang out sessions.
[01:50:19]  I just don't think I can do it full-time forever.
[01:50:22]  It's going to get to the point I'm too old.
[01:50:23]  Who wants to see the 70-year-old crotchety dude trying to play Street Fighter and can't even push the buttons?
[01:50:27]  I mean, there was a 70-year-old guy playing RuneScape at a point.
[01:50:31]  That is true.
[01:50:32]  I do know about that guy.
[01:50:33]  Yes.
[01:50:34]  But yeah, like long term, I want to keep doing it as long as I can.
[01:50:38]  And then when I see signs, I can't.
[01:50:39]  Maybe, you know, but the thing is, hopefully, if there's a turnaround and there's positivity and I have money and I can have savings and I can have retirement funds now, that thing can happen.
[01:50:47]  You know, I can eventually say, okay, I don't have to do it till I die.
[01:50:50]  But, you know, I haven't had that opportunity in many years of going through that bankruptcy and all this shit going on.
[01:50:55]  Now it looks like things are turning around.
[01:50:56]  And maybe, like I said, when I say this is life-changing, that's not an exaggeration.
[01:51:00]  That's an actual statement of fact.
[01:51:02]  Let me tell you my favorite videos that you've ever done.
[01:51:05]  There are a couple that stand out and none of them have anything to do with like, well, I mean, the Street Fighter videos where you got angry are very funny.
[01:51:12]  But my favorite video you've ever done is the unboxing of Final Fantasy 13.
[01:51:17]  Do you know what?
[01:51:17]  Everyone loves this video.
[01:51:19]  Everyone loves this video.
[01:51:22]  And the cooking video.
[01:51:26]  I miss the cooking with the king.

=== Life Changing Realizations (04:13) ===

[01:51:28]  That was way more.
[01:51:29]  No, Poorly cooking with the king.
[01:51:32]  You have to add that in there because that was the whole idea is that it was me being a dunce trying to cook and making terrible food.
[01:51:39]  Yeah, I mean, it was very funny because you were like, you had like a camera in one hand and were trying to open like cans with the other.
[01:51:45]  And it was just like a tragedy.
[01:51:49]  Probably the reason I ran out and bought a triad pod for the first time.
[01:51:54]  Yeah.
[01:51:55]  Yeah.
[01:51:56]  Josh, you have to watch him cooking the noodles in the cup.
[01:52:00]  He must have seen.
[01:52:01]  The cup noodles.
[01:52:03]  The cup noodles.
[01:52:04]  Instead of boiling the water, he uses the hot water from the water cooler.
[01:52:12]  Yeah, and the spoon.
[01:52:14]  He's like, why is that so hard?
[01:52:16]  Did you see the bacon grease one where he just flushes that shit?
[01:52:19]  Like on the toilet.
[01:52:21]  Not my problem.
[01:52:23]  I didn't know.
[01:52:24]  I was an idiot.
[01:52:25]  I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
[01:52:28]  So funny.
[01:52:28]  When I started on YouTube, I was just fucking around.
[01:52:31]  I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.
[01:52:32]  Do anything and get views on it, right?
[01:52:34]  Like, fucking stupidity.
[01:52:36]  I want to say one other thing.
[01:52:37]  Can we all just agree?
[01:52:38]  Fuck the IRS.
[01:52:39]  Fuck them.
[01:52:40]  Dude, fuck.
[01:52:41]  Fuck the IRS.
[01:52:42]  I know, Phil, you know, you would never, ever scam the IRS.
[01:52:46]  No, but if you did, it would fucking be.
[01:52:49]  It's righteous.
[01:52:50]  Fuck them.
[01:52:51]  Tell them.
[01:52:54]  $865 billion a year budget with a return on investment of one to six.
[01:53:00]  15% or more of every dollar you send to the IRS is used to tax you.
[01:53:04]  15% waste, every dollar sent for the privilege of being taxed so that the majority of that money can go to social welfare programs that do not do anything for our country.
[01:53:17]  And then they take out loans and it just sinks us deeper and deeper forever.
[01:53:22]  As far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets away with not giving money to the IRS is enriching our entire planet for a better future.
[01:53:32]  Tax free, bitch.
[01:53:33]  Tax free.
[01:53:34]  Tax free.
[01:53:37]  He's tax-free, baby.
[01:53:39]  Let's go.
[01:53:40]  I do have one final thing I'd like to say to Josh because I know we're at the end of our time now.
[01:53:44]  Hell yeah.
[01:53:45]  So, Josh, first of all, thanks for having the conversation.
[01:53:48]  I know we're never going to agree on certain points, right?
[01:53:51]  I have this morality.
[01:53:53]  I think there's things there that you shouldn't have on the site.
[01:53:55]  You're going to always have them there.
[01:53:57]  But to be able to come together and have a civil conversation is meaningful, I think, to everyone.
[01:54:02]  I think everyone who watched this probably learned something and got something out of it.
[01:54:05]  And that's what it's really all about, right?
[01:54:07]  But I will say this.
[01:54:09]  I feel like, like, I know there's another silly analogy.
[01:54:11]  I like to make a lot of silly analogies.
[01:54:13]  In a lot of ways, I kind of see you like Dr. Frankenstein.
[01:54:16]  Okay.
[01:54:17]  What I mean by that is with QE Farms, you had a good intention.
[01:54:20]  You want to figure out a way to create life from death.
[01:54:22]  This is going to change humanity, right?
[01:54:24]  People will be able to live forever if I can perfect this technology if only.
[01:54:29]  And then the lightning bolt came down.
[01:54:31]  And when the dude got up, he just started fucking destroying everything around him and everything's getting smashed and fucked up.
[01:54:38]  Well, you know how that ends, right?
[01:54:42]  Everyone dies, right?
[01:54:44]  Yeah, he kills the creator.
[01:54:45]  So if I get killed by my creation, you'll be that's what I mean.
[01:54:51]  This is what scary is like.
[01:54:53]  Speak into existence here.
[01:54:55]  Yeah.
[01:54:56]  I hope that you're at a point in your life.
[01:54:59]  Like you said, I think you said you were 30 years old.
[01:55:01]  You're at a point in your life when you're going to realize, at least from my perspective, that it's just not worth it.
[01:55:05]  And that you'll be able to put down the monster before the monster puts you down.
[01:55:09]  I really hope that because it doesn't seem to me like you're a bad guy from the conversation we've had today.
[01:55:14]  I just think that we're at different planes of existence morally.
[01:55:17]  And I would hate to see that site be the end of you or your happiness in life because you let it go too long or too far.
[01:55:25]  All right.
[01:55:25]  I'm not going to be the guy who's going to come after you for anything.
[01:55:28]  I'm not.
[01:55:28]  I don't go after my detractors.
[01:55:29]  You're never going to see a lawsuit from Darkseide Phil.
[01:55:31]  I'm not a fucking asshole.
[01:55:33]  All right.
[01:55:33]  But I am worried from the shit that's been going on that that's going to be the end of you.
[01:55:38]  And at some point in your life, you may have to draw that line and be like, it's not worth it anymore.

=== Soul Searching for Keemstar (04:59) ===

[01:55:42]  You know, I got it.
[01:55:43]  I got to stop.
[01:55:43]  And it might be the best decision in your life to do that and to kill the monster before it gets too late.
[01:55:48]  I think you should think about that.
[01:55:49]  I'm not saying you have to do it today or tomorrow, but I think it's something you should seriously soul search and think about because it might be best for you and for a lot of other people as well.
[01:55:58]  Well, my perspective is simply this, that we are in an unprecedented era where the internet is smaller and more insular than it has ever been.
[01:56:06]  There is more traffic on fewer websites, and that is not good for the health of humanity as a whole.
[01:56:13]  And I think that there is an attack on freedom of expression and the ability to share truthful information on the internet.
[01:56:19]  And the only way to combat that is for certain people, which I include myself in, to say not one step back.
[01:56:28]  Hold the line.
[01:56:29]  Every single right must be protected at all costs.
[01:56:33]  Because if you don't have people doing that, and granted, my realm is very small, just a gossip website.
[01:56:37]  But if you don't have people doing that in general, everybody, you don't even know what you're losing until it's gone.
[01:56:44]  And I know that the Kiwi Farms is just a spec in terms of like the grand picture, but everything, I think everything helps.
[01:56:53]  Every little thing helps in regards to that.
[01:56:57]  Okay, guys.
[01:56:58]  Well, appreciated having you both on.
[01:57:01]  Maybe we should play Chain together.
[01:57:03]  Who's got 30 minutes more for video games?
[01:57:08]  That's a bit longer.
[01:57:10]  I apologize.
[01:57:11]  We appreciate the great talking on, sharing your perspectives.
[01:57:16]  They couldn't be any more different.
[01:57:18]  You couldn't be any more different as people, but we were able to have a civil conversation about very controversial, very inflammatory topics.
[01:57:28]  And, you know, I thought it was really good.
[01:57:31]  I really, really enjoyed it.
[01:57:33]  And I hope you guys enjoyed it too.
[01:57:35]  Yeah, definitely, Josh.
[01:57:36]  Really well.
[01:57:38]  Yeah.
[01:57:39]  And DSP, we hope you got all your grievances out.
[01:57:42]  And again, there are things you will agree with, but I think that was very positive, Convo.
[01:57:48]  Who knew?
[01:57:49]  Huh?
[01:57:50]  And a curiosity is, is your talk with Keemstar with just you and Keem, or is it also moderated by Keeno Casino?
[01:57:58]  No, that's just us.
[01:57:59]  It's just on his channel.
[01:58:00]  I think that's a good question.
[01:58:01]  I'll let you know tomorrow.
[01:58:05]  I think you'd be surprised.
[01:58:07]  I think Keem's turning the corner on Phil.
[01:58:10]  We have a second.
[01:58:11]  Don't let him talk you into being on WorldCal Live.
[01:58:13]  Don't let him do it.
[01:58:15]  I am the last person you have to worry about.
[01:58:18]  Let me put it this way.
[01:58:18]  I've been through so much shit in my life at this point that I'm the last person to get the wool pulled over his eyes on shit.
[01:58:25]  Okay.
[01:58:25]  I am so skeptical of this stuff.
[01:58:27]  So don't worry about that.
[01:58:29]  It's going to be very interesting.
[01:58:31]  I'm very curious.
[01:58:32]  I'm very curious to watch that tomorrow.
[01:58:35]  No, that's not tomorrow.
[01:58:36]  It's Wednesday morning.
[01:58:38]  Wednesday.
[01:58:38]  Sorry, Wednesday.
[01:58:39]  I'm going to turn the stream on at 11 a.m. Pacific time because as you guys know, I have some technical issues trying to get Discord working.
[01:58:46]  Yeah, you go.
[01:58:47]  I'm going to work on my chat to get it working for about half an hour.
[01:58:49]  And he's going to come on around 11:30.
[01:58:51]  And then we're going to go for like an hour, hour and a half.
[01:58:53]  So as long as you're at hardware celebrations off, you should be fine.
[01:58:56]  But yeah, so we're looking very afford to that.
[01:59:00]  Yeah.
[01:59:01]  Where else the arc goes from here, but we're going to be gone for a couple of weeks.
[01:59:06]  So maybe we started the fire.
[01:59:08]  I believe our chaos.
[01:59:11]  So let's see where it goes.
[01:59:13]  All right.
[01:59:13]  All right, guys.
[01:59:15]  Thank you so much.
[01:59:16]  All right.
[01:59:16]  We'll see y'all later.
[01:59:19]  Easy.
[01:59:20]  Easy.
[01:59:21]  All right.
[01:59:22]  All right, guys.
[01:59:23]  We're still going to do some more show for you guys.
[01:59:25]  We're going to read the super chats here in a minute.
[01:59:28]  I think we're just going to take a quick break.
[01:59:29]  I'm going to take it.
[01:59:30]  Take it easy.
[01:59:32]  All right.
[01:59:32]  Yo, peace out, bro.
[01:59:33]  Peace out, man.
[01:59:36]  Okay.
[01:59:38]  Did I get super?
[01:59:39]  I did get super chat.
[01:59:39]  Okay, just real quick.
[01:59:40]  There's like six of them.
[01:59:41]  Oh my gosh.
[01:59:42]  Should I do the green?
[01:59:42]  Hold up.
[01:59:43]  Let's do the green.
[01:59:44]  As is tradition.
[01:59:46]  Secret stream.
[01:59:47]  Only the biggest fans.
[01:59:49]  I can't even do the green because my background's wrong.
[01:59:51]  Now I can do the green.
[01:59:53]  Super secret.
[01:59:55]  I hope you guys have enjoyed that.
[01:59:56]  I tried my best to be.
[01:59:59]  A lot of people just wanted me to be fangs out, but I don't really have as much investment.
[02:00:03]  So I just tried to satisfy people.
[02:00:05]  And thankfully, he was also, I think it helped a lot that he had grievances with me that he wanted to talk about because I think that made it more interesting.
[02:00:14]  And I didn't have to sit on my own haunches, so to speak.
[02:00:19]  My own rest of my laurels, so to speak, and handle everything myself.
[02:00:25]  Show.
[02:00:27]  Okay, let's do this real quick.
[02:00:28]  Sneedberg Sein Goldman for 10 says, Hail to the king, DSP, and his loyal gestures, PvP and Worski.
[02:00:34]  Look, you got to do what you got to do.
[02:00:38]  Sneeto, for one, says, Bossman X DSP Club win.
[02:00:41]  Maybe.

=== Low Tier Club History (03:02) ===

[02:00:42]  I think that would be terrible.
[02:00:43]  I think that would be the worst club in history.
[02:00:45]  The most short-lived club in history.
[02:00:48]  Casting Couchcraft for 5 says, Nice guest.
[02:00:49]  I am Crab.
[02:00:50]  Nice.
[02:00:51]  Nice crab, bro.
[02:00:52]  Space Allen for 20 says, I don't want you to shut down the board.
[02:00:54]  I just need you to know personally, et cetera, was Phil's calling from the shower.
[02:00:58]  I mean, it's obvious what he's implying.
[02:01:00]  I kind of feel like it was weird that he said, well, I'm not trying to convince you to.
[02:01:04]  It's like, why don't I just say that you're trying to convince me to?
[02:01:07]  Because I know you are.
[02:01:08]  I mean, that's how it feels to me.
[02:01:10]  Sneedo for one says, total DSP board death.
[02:01:13]  DSP board now becomes the bossman board.
[02:01:16]  Total bossman victory.
[02:01:17]  Now, that is an interesting, interesting concept.
[02:01:20]  I don't know if they would appreciate it, though.
[02:01:22]  Baja Blast and Drake for Fire says, what differentiates Phil's attractors is that they're genuinely fucking obsessed and retarded.
[02:01:27]  Low tier God is a bigger piece of shit, and by comparison, doesn't get nearly the amount of shit that Phil does.
[02:01:31]  I've said this repeatedly.
[02:01:32]  Low tier God is black.
[02:01:34]  And it's like with black true crime.
[02:01:37]  It's like white people do all this weird sex shit and have all this intrigue.
[02:01:42]  And then black people, true crime, is just like, Boo got shot because Boo brought to work for the cribs, but the blood said they don't like that.
[02:01:49]  So they shot him in a drive-by.
[02:01:51]  And it's like, okay, I got it.
[02:01:53]  It's not very complicated or interesting.
[02:01:54]  And low-tier God is basically that.
[02:01:55]  He's just a black guy.
[02:01:56]  He doesn't pay his child support.
[02:01:58]  Got it.
[02:01:58]  Next.
[02:01:59]  Red Eyes, Black Dragon for 2 says, keep up the good work.
[02:02:02]  Jersh, not another step back.
[02:02:03]  Based and true.
[02:02:04]  Not one step back.
[02:02:06]  Third World Aristocrat for one says, question mark, which angers and enrages me.
[02:02:10]  Thank you.
[02:02:11]  Colia Dante for 10 says, Mary Shelley Frankenstein was actually quite eloquent and chill until people shunned him.
[02:02:16]  She was a libertine degenerate pushing blank slate nonsense, but it's still perhaps silliant in this case.
[02:02:21]  I've actually never read it, but I know the gist of the plot line.
[02:02:24]  I'll take your word on it.
[02:02:25]  Thank you.
[02:02:25]  Dr. John for two says, in a way, I understand DSP's principle of not setting the precedent of punishing people off-stream behavior.
[02:02:31]  It's a tricky issue, even when dealing with obvious freaks.
[02:02:34]  Yeah, I mean, I understand.
[02:02:35]  And I said, I wasn't being facetious.
[02:02:38]  I said, I understand your perspective.
[02:02:39]  I agree with you 100%.
[02:02:41]  If you do do this, people will try to hunt down more to make you ban more people.
[02:02:47]  But I said it was a catch-22 or a no-win situation.
[02:02:54]  I wanted to say my favorite word, which is Zugzong, which means a compulsion to move.
[02:02:58]  And it just means catch-22, basically.
[02:03:01]  But yeah, I understand his hesitation, but I don't agree with it.
[02:03:08]  I think there's a point where you just got to do it.
[02:03:11]  College Dante for 5 says, actually, wait, his name is Mary Shellen's Frankenstein, Monsters, House Cats, Cousins, Mechanic.
[02:03:17]  I think that's accurate.
[02:03:18]  I think that's what it was.
[02:03:20]  And the orange cow for five says, Josh, don't turn around.
[02:03:22]  Kingle is standing right behind you.
[02:03:23]  It's too late.
[02:03:24]  My closet is locked and I am safe.
[02:03:26]  Don't you worry.
[02:03:28]  One more.
[02:03:29]  Humble Guardsman for One says the farm stand based and true.
[02:03:32]  It does.
[02:03:33]  Okay, so that is said.
[02:03:35]  I will be streaming on Tuesday, as per usual.
[02:03:38]  I do not think that there's anything else to close this out on.
[02:03:42]  Take it easy.
[02:03:43]  Bye-bye.
[02:03:43]  Thank you for watching.