REAL DEAL SPECIAL (11 February 2026): Bill Binney & Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
Bill Binney and Katherine Horton expose alleged 1–3 GHz directed energy attacks targeting Binney, ignored by the DOD and Biden’s IG despite legal mandates. They link Netanyahu’s pressure on Trump to potential false flags—like the USS Abraham Lincoln sinking—while scrutinizing Georgia’s 2020 election, where Biden’s 81M votes (10M more than Obama) and signature discrepancies hint at fraud via electronic voting machines. Binney’s rejected "Well-Grounded" NSA reforms and FBI’s FISA abuses underscore systemic corruption, with surveillance tech like Naris (sold to Google) enabling unchecked data collection. Their warnings reveal a government prioritizing foreign influence—like Israel’s 8200 unit—over accountability, risking privacy and stability through unverified AI-like systems. The U.S. may be losing its technological edge while enabling global manipulation. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to another real deal special interview with Catherine Horton, Bill Binney under fire.
Tonight, I'm overjoyed to have Bill as my special guest.
They've been, of course, subjected to all kinds of directed energy attacks and having to deal with it.
And some days it's better and some days it's worse.
Bill, it's so much for you to have to deal with.
Well, you know, it's just something that, I mean, we've got spectrum analyzers that tell us that they're shooting us with certain kinds of radiation.
What the function of those things are is not really clear yet because we queried the IG for the Department of Defense, now the Department of War, and also the DOD himself at the time, and neither of them answered because we gave them specific frequencies that they're radiating us with line of sight stuff in the gigahertz range, you know, one to three gigahertz range.
And they don't, they just never answered.
And, you know, according to law, it is illegal to experiment on anyone without first getting their informed consent.
And we never gave our consent to be radiated by anybody.
And these radiations, by the way, were hitting us in Maryland and now down here, 300 and some miles away, just about.
So after we move.
It's shameful that you're not getting a response from the government.
I expect that's contrary to protocols, if not actual statutes and laws.
Yeah, it is according to the law and also according to procedures by the Department of Defense at the time.
This was, of course, under the Biden administration.
Okay.
We're going to have to do this again with the Trump administration, I guess.
Yeah, at least three issues I was hoping we might discuss, at least in part one, of course, is Netanyahu making his seventh visit to impose demands on Trump to attack Iran.
Terrible idea, but he wants it.
And they have so much on Trump.
I'm worried he's going to get it.
Then, of course, there's the Epitain Vows and the outrage in Congress because the FBI was so half-assed.
At one point, you had the Attorney General even denying the Worthy's files.
You had the FBI claiming they never found any evidence that he was running a sex trafficking off.
And the third, very intriguing, Tulsi Gabber, Director of National Intelligence, goes to Fulton County, Georgia and really finds confirmation of the theft of the 2020 election.
I was all over that at the time, Bill.
There isn't any doubt in the world that this was massively stolen.
In fact, it is such a good job.
They got this staggering number.
And in some counties, they had more votes than they had voters.
I mean, it was just outrageous.
Well, Jim, you have to remember when you're stuffing ballots in to win, you keep stuffing to get a lot in and you just never stop and you don't know where you are.
So you overstuff.
Yeah.
You get more ballots than people are living there.
And I mean, he got 81 million.
Give me a break.
That was like almost 10 million more than Obama.
Give me a break.
That was just an idiot.
And that was all after hours after they kicked everybody out and everything.
And you saw the FCC TV video where the people in the Georgia place were shoving the same ballots back in several times.
Well, I watched it.
I watched that video.
I saw them do it.
They had a suitcase there of ballots.
They brought it out and then they recycled them again and again and again.
Yeah.
I mean, 81 for a guy who didn't even campaign.
You know, when in Kamala, their final event, I think it was in Phoenix, the day before the election, and the number who turned out to see him, zero, zero.
Nobody turned out to see him.
The eve of the election, and you got the president, vice president making a joint appearance, and no one turns out, and yet he's supposed to have got 81 million votes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, statistically, that's basically an impossibility.
And, you know, I think we looked at the Georgia, somebody we were working with had purchased the results of the Georgia election from Georgia state.
And we went through there and looked at the birth dates as one factor.
And it turned out that there were almost close to 2 million people who were born on the 1st of January.
And, you know, if you statistically figure that out, okay, let's see.
There's 365 days in the year times two.
If you assume uniform distribution of birth dates, that means it's like 720 million people living in Georgia.
You know, 2 million on January for heaven's sake.
Yeah.
Well, that's why they're trying to cover it up down there.
That's all.
And they did a lot of work on the guy in the White House thereafter.
And he had a different shape and size of skull than the real Joe from Delaware in a completely different manner and affect.
The real Joe was very articulate and expressive, used his hands a lot, as do I.
This guy was a walking mummy, and he had a different signature, a different hand usage, different social interaction.
It was the same guy.
We had a dummy.
We had a fake.
We had a fraud in the office for four years and no one called it out, Bill.
How does that happen?
Well, that's where you come and get an auto pin.
Yes.
That's what happens.
You have to have somebody, you have to forge everything, which is, I think, what they did.
But even the auto pin bill was for the new guy's signature, which wasn't the same as Joe's, the real guy.
So it was an auto pen.
But if you go back and compare our signatures, I put this stuff up on my blog.
I had a huge amount about it, definitive proof, and yet it never came out.
It was never called out.
Yeah.
And well, I guess the point was all they figured was whatever signature they forged for Joe, they had to be consistent.
That's all.
Yeah.
And, you know, so it did, it didn't, it didn't matter if it matched the original or not.
So I figured it was Jill who was manning the auto pen.
I can't imagine she relinquishing that to anyone else.
Well, and she had some Obama staffers with her doing it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right, Because I think a lot of the people in his administration came from the Obama administration.
Yeah, it was the third Obama term.
I agree.
I agree.
Very bad.
Yeah.
I mean, American governance has just been on a downhill trajectory, I think, since 22 November 1963, basically.
Yeah, that's probably that's probably close.
Yeah, I would say that.
With LBJ, yeah.
I mean, a guy who created a war out of nothing, something that never happened, like the Tonkin Gulf attack by the North Korean North Vietnamese on a destroyer, U.S. destroyer.
That never happened.
Even by the testimony of the captain of the destroyer, it didn't happen.
American Governance Decline00:15:29
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Even Linden said later, for all he knew they were shooting at whales out there, he knew it was bullshit.
Yeah, but he created a war killing, you know, up to almost 60,000 of our people and maybe a million plus of them, you know, for what?
For a lie.
Yeah.
And then he brought us that.
And then he brought us the great society that destroyed the family function in this country, really.
Yeah.
And the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
He put it off with Jack again and again and again because he wanted to take credit for it when Jack was whacked, which was his plan, forcing himself on the ticket in 1960 after he lost the nomination to JFK.
So that reminds me of what he did with the, you know, I had a, I had an opportunity to be on the USS Liberty ship.
You know that.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
I was stationed in, I was stationed in Turkey, in Ankara, outside of Ankara, in the U.S. Army.
And when I was getting ready to rotate back to, I had orders to go back to NSA from Turkey directly, you know, and NCOIC, my trick or my shift came over to me and said, how would you like to take a boat ride in the Mediterranean?
I had three answers for him.
First of all, I was working all the Russian problems and I loved it.
It was a nice puzzle palace.
You know, I was great.
I love puzzles.
And I was going back to the big puzzle palace in the sky.
Now, this is my dream.
And this guy's telling me, do I want to take a boat ride?
Hell no, I don't want to take a boat ride.
I said, well, first of all, I'm not in the Navy.
Secondly, I don't tread water very well.
And third, I got orders to go back there and say, thank you, but no, thank you.
And so I did that on that ship.
Yeah.
It was the unsinkable ship.
They tried mightily to bring it down.
And in spite of that, you know, our allies, the supposed allies, Israelis, killing our people, knowing they were doing it at the time, because we had collection on them doing it too.
air-to-ground stuff and ground-to-air and shoot them, you know.
Linda bought that ship at the bottom of the sea.
Yeah, he basically, well, you know, the admiral there in the Med was sending you know, F-4s off the carrier to give air cover to the ship after they issued the mayday.
And Lyndon Johnson called them back.
Yes.
Why?
Because I don't want to embarrass my ally.
Yeah.
So much that the Democrats care for the people of this country.
You know, and you can't say too much about that.
Also, you have to say similar kinds of stuff with George W. when he went into Iraq.
And the same thing about Obama going into all the other countries, Libya, and, you know.
Yes, yes, yes.
Libya was especially inhumane.
My God.
Gaddafi had built a wonderful society there, free healthcare, free education, 25,000 grants to newly married couples, the Great Water Works Project, the Gold Dinar.
It was too much for the bankers.
Well, he also gave up, yeah, right.
The bankers were the one.
Yeah, but he also gave up any nuclear developments.
So, you know, nuclear weapons development.
So he was a great humanitarian, Bill.
I think history is going to look very kindly on Mamar Gaddafi, but very badly on Hillary, Obama, the others who slaughtered the Libyans, turned it into a tribal society where they have open slave markets.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's just crazy.
The more we stay out of foreign intrigues, like Jefferson said, the better we will be off.
Yes.
Foreign entanglements.
Washington, too, warned us about them as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They knew what they were talking about.
Yep.
The scene with Iran is startling to me.
Iran hasn't launched a war of aggression against another state since 1775.
The Declaration of Independence, Bill, as you know, is 1776.
So for longer than the United States has existed as a constitutional republic, Iran hasn't launched a war of aggression against any other state.
Would we had such a record?
Well, now you have to admit that they did launch a bunch of missiles at Israel after Israel was pounding Hezbollah.
Oh, they have been willing to defend themselves.
Yeah, they lost about a million with the war on Iraq, you know, that we unleashed against them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was another one.
Yeah.
Terrible.
But the Iranians are such a good, decent people, such an ancient civilization and so much culture in Prince Saba.
Yeah, not without, I would say that's true of the people, but not of their current administration.
The mullahs there don't care about human life or anything.
So I would never say that they're good people at all.
Interesting.
I was in Iran at 2014 for an international conference, and I was just very impressed with everything I encountered there.
Yeah.
Oh, no, I'm agreeing.
The people are great, right?
Yeah.
And their culture has a long history and is really replete with all kinds of developments, scientific and so on.
So, you know, I agree that that's true, but they didn't realize what they were getting when they took in Khomeini.
And when Khomeini came in and started this other, look at they slaughtered 30,000 of their own people right now in the streets, just shooting them.
I mean, that's crazy.
Well, you know, Bill, everything I get says this was color revolution, CIA, Mossadop, and I don't doubt that they're involved in trying to stimulate that kind of thing and supporting people to get out in the street, you know.
But they're not giving them guns.
That's right.
They don't give them guns yet.
Well, we got the Department of Treasury saying that they made a dollar shortage in Iran to exacerbate tensions there.
Well, yeah.
I'm sure they did.
I'm sure they're doing everything they can to get rid of that regime.
But I mean, we have our allies doing similar kinds of things.
Like I think I mentioned to you before we started that the supposed whistleblower's complaint that wasn't given to Congress by Tulsi Gabbard.
Yeah, that was the lawyer, according to one of the things I just read on the web, the lawyer for the whistleblower, alluded to them, the conversation that the NSA collected and transcribed, which is classified, of course, you know, so it's a classified, it's a release of classified information.
He said it was between two foreign uh intelligence officers, and my thought right away was, uh, this is most likely Musad, or and they're talking about someone very close to the president or in his administration, inside the White House.
So it's either Mussad or uh, the Brits.
I think it's most most likely Mussad.
Yeah, it could be two Mossad officers talking about, but you know uh, I think they wanted Trump in, so I it's odd that they would have been supporting the theft of the election and install Biden.
I mean, Trump is their guy, I know, and they also have somebody in there to try to uh, kind of prod him or encourage him to go to war with Iran.
Oh yeah okay, so you know, that's a way of in, of feeding or influencing the uh decision making in the?
U.s government.
Sure, that's what, that's what Bib's doing right now.
He's down there to washing demands.
That's that's what they yeah, that's what they all do.
That's what that's what uh, you know the, the Ukrainians are doing, the Russians are doing, they're all doing.
The Chinese are doing that.
Yeah, that's as best they can that they don't have somebody inside his inner circle though, and I think the Mussad does.
China was getting about five percent of its oil from Venezuela, but it gets more like 16.8 percent of its oil from Iran and cannot afford to lose that oil, being the gigantic industrial powerhouse that it is such that this attack on Iran is really an attack on China, I think.
I think built China is not going to let it go down.
Well, I mean, it can always turn to to uh uh, buying more Russian oil.
I guess that that would be their option, I think.
But of course, Iran seemed to be bristling with defensive weapons now that it didn't have before with relation to the 12-day war, and even then they were beating the hell out of Israel.
So Bibi had to turn to Trump to plead for a ceasefire from Iran before they lost more.
So I think that Yeah was overplayed his hand and this isn't gonna pan out the way he wants.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I'm not a part of that decision-making process, and i'm glad i'm not, because I don't want to be.
I would never want to be responsible for ordering somebody to kill somebody.
Yeah, mass deaths going back to Fall County, what?
What's your take on the big picture there?
Which one, which one was that?
Again, County Georgia and Tulsi?
Oh well um, I think.
I think it had to do with uh.
She went there probably, and was asked to go there by the uh, by uh, justice uh, because there was an alleged connection with the Venezuelan people, Venezuelan government, influencing the uh, The computer programs.
The Dominion voting machines.
Yeah, yeah, and probably others too.
I think that software was kind of, it was more than Dominion, but it might be just them.
But I mean, I think that she had to be there for that potential.
She went there as a part of the representative of the intelligence community to ensure that if anything came up, that they investigated it or whatever, or if they saw something that would imply that, you know.
I don't know why anyone should be upset about her going there.
It seemed to me totally legit.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the intelligence community is in part of the intelligence community is also part of the FBI.
You know, the FBI has direct access to the community's data.
You know that.
And they're never, they're never, there's no oversight of that.
That's why the FBI had over 250,000 violations of the FISA law.
The FBI today is so incompetent.
I don't think anyone, nobody takes it seriously.
This Kash Patel guy is a clown.
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
He's lied repeatedly about the Epstein files.
Honest to God, I think the FBI has been totally discredited.
Well, you know, that's the point is that all that stuff is in the databases of NSA and CIA.
And they don't have, I mean, they don't have to guess about this stuff, okay?
Bill.
You would make a super director of the FBI.
I can't imagine how many crimes could be solved virtually overnight.
They miss their bet, man.
You are the man.
You are the guy.
You should be doing it.
I only had one.
I did this once for customs and border protection, you know, imports and exports.
I looked at imports and exports, and I said, well, with the data we have and the data that is in the bases, we could figure out in the entire world who was doing illegitimate trade, smuggling and things like that, and even things like money laundering, all that kind of stuff too.
And do that, you know, with one, with the initial run of a program.
Based on the sample I looked at, I looked at that sample of their data because I had a contract with them at the time to do this.
And I said, well, based on the sample that I looked at, the projection I would make was that after we ran it for the first run, you should get on the order of 40,000 targets to go after.
40,000 just on imports, exports, and fraud and all that kind of stuff.
And we could point all of your inspectors at all the ports of entry to all the packages to inspect as they come in.
They would be sitting there waiting with the inspection direction.
Yeah.
And they rejected it.
So glad to hear that.
They were so wildly enthusiastic.
They said, let's do it now.
Yeah, right.
Scared.
Actually, it scared the shit out of them.
And they said, we only have two analysts.
Sorry.
No, no, thank you.
That was just crazy.
You know?
It is.
I mean, I showed you the stuff about the IEDs that we had discovered by looking at company data around the world and found that there were certain companies, Iranian companies in Dubai that were soliciting and buying from various companies here in the United States and other places all the equipment necessary to make the IEDs that they passed up to Afghanistan and Iraq when we were there.
And At the same time, we found out 57 other groups of Iranian activities in Dubai that should be looked at for other kinds of criminal or international smuggling activities, like smuggling weapons and purchasing things that they're not allowed to have, things like that, and maybe money laundering and things like that.
And none of them were looked at by that.
We gave all that stuff to the CBP, and they didn't even look at it.
I mean, they're idiots.
They're just outright idiots.
They were all idiots.
The whole government is full of idiots.
The Government Is Full Of Idiots00:07:13
And I call them idiots, but actually, they know what they're doing because they know there's a big worldwide network that's feeding off this stuff.
Yeah, the other side is corruption.
In other words, either incompetent or they're corrupt, but they're not incompetent.
Yeah, actually, they're both corrupt and incompetent.
But that's how you slice it.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's why the program I'd proposed back in 1992, I called it Well-Grounded.
That program, I wanted to analyze all the network logs.
We talked about this before.
See, every transaction or line of code that's sent by any computer on the network is recorded by the network in the network log.
So if you analyze the network log, you could see and analyze and figure out what everybody was doing as they do, as they did it on the log based off the log.
And so you could see penetrations, things like hacking and stuff like that as well.
You can see all kinds of things because that's what the log records.
But at the same time, it'll give you an account of all the financial planning, financial spending, money movements, shifting money from one program to the other, and so on.
It'll give you that record too.
So, and that's what the NSA at the time in 1992 told me.
And that's why it said on your other program.
They told me you are never going to do this program because Congress can see everything and see what's going on and they can pick out fraud, waste, you know, and they didn't want to do it.
This is why Amazon, this is why Amazon banned six of my books.
They were too good.
Yeah.
Well, the truth about Sandy Hook Boston bombing, Orlando, Dallas, Charlesville, Bartlin, and the moon landing.
They didn't want that out there.
So they banned them.
Yeah.
It's insane, Bill.
Anyhow, I think, you know, all of these, like these Somali, you know, that stuff, if they had that program running, they would have found all of that Somali swindling and fraud as it happened years ago.
Yeah.
When they started it, they would find it.
Yes.
And it would be centrally known in Washington.
You know, you didn't have to have the states do that.
It's just crazy.
I mean, I even found Bernie Madoff with it and his operating where he, all the things he had connected with his operation.
Yeah, and he was a very sophisticated guy.
I mean, you ought to bury stuff deep.
Yeah.
Well, make it look like you got something, right?
As long as you have a Ponzi scheme, something coming in enough to keep feeding people going out and take your own cream off the top, you know.
That's all.
Yeah.
Bill, I can't understand why we still have electronic voting machines anywhere in the United States.
I mean, they're obviously so easily riggable that a Princeton professor was able to rig one in five minutes.
You know, I mean, it's really effortless.
So, why in the hell are we still using them?
Why haven't we all gone back to paper ballots and hand counts?
And neither party is moving to get rid of them, Bill.
That's distressing.
Well, that's very simply because it allows them to cheat.
Both sides.
However, you want to do it, they can cheat.
So, I just think, and you know, we had proposed, you know, back before the 2020 election that they put together a system that was in parallel running so it could verify and validate the counts that were supposedly reported,
you know, and we would feed off the optical scanners or whatever they had on the voting machines, feed that data into a system that was separate, and we would cover it with encryption so that you couldn't get into it.
You know, online encryption too, so that that wouldn't be breakable by somebody coming in, you know.
So, but nobody wanted to do that.
And we put that proposal up to all the secretaries of states of all the states, you know, as well.
It's just nobody wanted to ensure the validation of the vote.
Bill, it's just incredible.
You know, the average American, his mind's exploding hearing this.
Well, I mean, that's that's the politicians and the governments we currently have don't want anybody to be able to hold them accountable for their actions.
That's all.
That's what that means.
That means they're all, I mean, it's like when Biden was in, I called the Department of Just Us just us, not justice, just us.
And we, the people, were not included.
Right.
So, and when you do that, I mean, that it I used to say, if you reflect back on Reagan when he said we're a country with a government, I was saying now we are a government with a country.
Yes.
You know, for a long time, I've advocated a half a dozen reforms that would transform everything.
Get rid of electronic voting machines, all hand counts, paper ballots, no gerrymander districts for minimum creation.
You got to be able to show you have something to contribute to the good of America, plumber, carpenter, lawyer, doctor, that you have the financial resources that you not become a burden on the state.
I mean, there are five right there that would make a huge difference.
And of course, you not allow these lobbying groups to represent foreign nations without being registered.
I mean, goodness gracious.
And then you got to reverse Citizens United.
You got to get these massive influx of money from companies out of politics.
I always thought that when the Supreme Court ruled that in that case, I thought that was a big mistake.
Huge mistake.
Huge mistake.
And then we have, you know, these wealthy Zionists contributing 150 mil here, 250 mil there.
I mean, give me a break.
They're buying the government.
And they're doing it on condition that Trump takes specific measures like move our embassy to Jerusalem, declare Golden Heights as a part of Israel and the like.
Wealthy Zionists Buying Influence00:05:02
And now, of course, they want to convert Gaza into the Riviera of the Mediterranean.
It is absurd.
It is grotesque, Bill, the inhumanity, the ethnic cleansing, the genocide.
How can the world stand for this?
Oh, I mean, we're fundamentally doing similar kinds of things with like the fire in Los Angeles, you know.
The fires in Hawaii, things like that, you know, and the floods and all that kind of stuff.
Palisades, yes, yes, paradise.
Those were all directed energy, Bill, of course.
Yeah.
Oh, that's you guys' field of expertise.
Well, I mean, you could do, you could do a lot with that stuff, I'll tell you.
And if you ever looked at Dr. Barry Crowell on the web, he worked in England on the English versions of these directed energy weapons.
They worked with microwaves, basically, I think, primarily.
But he said you could do a heck of a lot of the injury and all kinds of things against people with microwaves.
And he goes through a whole bunch of them, you know, and it's really, and this, this has been going on for decades, this research and stuff.
And that's why this, when, when Trump came out and he called this the, what did he call it, the weapon they used in Venezuela?
The bamboozler or something like that.
It was the thing to shut off everything.
But they also had to use things like something akin to a sonic wave to make people feel sick or bleed or things like that.
Or maybe that's also done with microwaves like Barry Trowell had been talking about.
But these things have been around and been researched since the 60s.
I think it started in the 50s, but it's been over 50 years worth of research into this stuff.
Have you seen some of the bodies of dogs, cats, and people that are just pure charcoal?
I mean, it's a perfect silhouette.
It's the exact shape of the body, but it's had all water content removed.
And all that's left is a charcoal image.
You can even count the cornrows on the head of this one body.
I mean, it's just disgusting, Bill.
And where was this in Venezuela?
No, this is Lahaina and Pacific Palisade stuff I'm talking about.
Okay.
I mean, just unbelievable.
Melted aluminum tires from a wildfire.
Give me a break.
Well, this is the world we live in.
I've called it a police state for over almost two decades now.
I mean, it's easy to see once they started, once they started spying on everybody, that gave them the ability to control everybody and manipulate them.
Because, you know, and they're tracking them so they know where you are by your cell phone, you know, any kind of device you have on.
Or maybe if you're implanted with something, they could track that implant, much like they do with dogs, you know.
Yes.
Yeah.
And they talked about people, you know, mine.
I keep warning about this mind-to-computer interface because you have to remember that's not a one-way thing.
That's a two-way thing.
Right?
If you can communicate with the computer, the computer can communicate with you.
Then when you're on the web, you can be hacked, right?
You're just another thing on the web that can be hacked.
I told Catherine during one of our recent conversations how Tulsi Gambert came to Wisconsin and she was going to be at a farm, gee, I don't know, about 15 minutes drive from my home.
So I drove up there and she'd finished speaking and I was able to get right up there to talk to her.
And I was going to give her information.
I've done this huge amount on JFK 9-11.
You know, I was going to give her some insights.
And right at the moment I started to talk, some click, I just zipped out of there like a rabbit.
It was, I was totally under control.
I couldn't control myself.
It was in a flight mode and I was driving home asking myself, what in the world am I doing there?
I was just talking to Tulsi.
Bill, I'm convinced I'm chipped.
You know, I had no idea.
But when that happened, it was utterly under my, out of my control, out of my control, 100%.
False Flag Theory00:03:09
Well, I mean, they, like I say, Barry Troll had talked about any number of things they can do with that stuff.
And that was, you know, he's been retired for a while.
So, you know, that doesn't.
And look at what they look at what they did.
They had virtually no opposition in the middle of a major military base in Venezuela.
Guy was guarded by a couple of hundred Cubans, and they couldn't do a damn thing.
Yeah.
So very, very strange.
I know.
And they apparently had super silent choppers come in there, you know, very quiet.
And then they had these high-tech weapons.
Wasn't quite Star Wars, but it wasn't too far removed.
I mean, I'm kind of astonished by the whole thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I remember Trump called it the decombobulator.
Yeah.
I mean, what are they doing with Maduro anyway?
Kidnapping the head of a foreign state?
My God, what a gross violation of international law.
This is all catastrophic as I see it.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think they would argue that he didn't respect the election of the proper person who won the election.
He just stayed in power and kicked her out.
I don't believe that for a second, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
They would make.
Okay.
They would argue that.
Yeah, they plant wise and use them as predicates for action, you know, notwithstanding that they're false.
Yeah.
Treating them as though they were true to justify actions they would otherwise never be able to support politically, which, of course, is a role of false flag attacks.
I'm convinced there's going to be a big false flag blamed on Iran, most likely sinking the Abraham Lincoln out there.
And it'll be the Israelis pulling it off, but they're going to say Iran did it to justify a massive strike on Iran.
Well, I don't believe they could do that without being caught.
I mean, all the sensors we have would catch that.
I mean, there's no, I don't see any way they could do anything that we could not detect.
Literally.
The U.S. Navy.
Well, not just the Navy, okay?
It's much more than that.
And all that.
Okay.
All right.
Well, I tell you, I think that's what they're going to do.
Well, it may be, but the highest probability is they will be caught.
Now, the question would be, did anybody want to like the Liberty ship?
LBJ silenced that, you know, because he didn't want to embarrass his ally, Israel.
Israeli pilots are saying it's flying an American flag and they're told to attack it anyway.
That's right.
And that was said several times.
Long before they didn't attack it when they first went around it because it was an American.
Master Manipulator Linden00:04:09
Yeah.
And they said that.
Of course, Moshe Diane was such a brilliant general.
He didn't need American assistance and defeat the forces allied against him at the time.
But I think Linden wanted to nuke Cairo, Bill.
Geez.
I don't know.
I wouldn't put much past Linden.
You know, he was a good Democrat.
Well, he ran the Democratic Party, you know?
Yeah, shocking.
I recall, as I recall, he was the strong-armed man in the Congress as well for the Democrats.
All that before he became president.
Yeah, absolutely.
He was a he was kind of a master at sizing up men.
He could virtually tell the weaknesses on first meeting.
I mean, he was a master manipulator.
Yep.
I also understood that or had heard that he drank a lot.
So.
Well, he certainly did later on, when he was no longer in the office.
He'd drink, and he'd go flying off in a caddy or a Lincoln, and the Secret Service would come chasing after him.
I have a friend whose sister Lyndon tried to pick up on one of these occasions.
She was out there and this car comes roaring up.
He says, Hey, hey, babe, how do you like to go for a ride?
And she's trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
Then he looks around and sees them all coming.
He says, oh, they're after me.
I got to take off.
Zoom.
But it was Linden.
It was Linden.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Loves a story.
Yeah.
It was a wonderful book, just in case anyone wants to follow up by Phil Nelson and Taut Lyndon Johnson, Mastermind of JFK's assassination.
You just read the first couple of chapters about his boyhood and you realize how ruthless the guy was, but he was so capable.
He was so confident.
It's a bad combination of evil people with extreme competence, Bill.
Well, I think it was more or less his arrogance.
And he was a bully more than anything else.
And that's what people didn't like to, you know, people didn't, people avoid conflict, basically.
So I think because he was the bully, he basically like the, he bullied his way up to the top.
He was an intimidator.
Yes, yes, absolutely true.
And corrupt as they come.
Yep.
Knew the virtues of bribery, blackmail, and assassination.
He had a personal hitman, Malcolm MacWallis, murdered a dozen people for Linden, including one of his own sisters, Bill, because she talked too much.
Oh, I mean, look at how many people he killed in Vietnam with his decisions.
Yeah, as you say, over 50,000.
That was just us.
Our guys.
Oh, it's over 2 million on the Vietnamese.
Yes, yes, yes, that's right.
50,000 to drop in the bucket compared to how many Viet MBs died.
That's what I mean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
The only story or explanation I ever had, this is like 1968, Walter Gronkite did a 30-minute story and he explained how the continental shelf of Vietnam was believed to be very rich with oil and all the big international oil companies that already divided it up.
And after the war, every now and then I'd see a little story about, you know, Exxon or Standard or whatever, at least one of these tracks.
That's the only explanation I ever heard for why we were there.
Spying on the Planet00:15:44
I know of no better, except, of course, a drug trade because the CIA became addicted on all the drugs and then they continued it in Afghanistan.
Well, and all that that gave them all that money for black programs, you know, yeah, programs that they could run that Congress didn't have any knowledge of.
Yes, yes, yes.
And who knows how much damage they've inflicted on the world thereby.
Yeah.
Stunning.
So, how many officers came back from Afghanistan complaining their obligation, their duty was to protect the poppy fields?
Yeah.
Remember the Taliban, it got down about 5%, but while we were there, it blossomed again.
Well, I mean, you know, they were running the stuff out of Columbia too, cocaine, stuff like that.
The programs, the CIA programs are called the Amadeus, Pegasus, and Watchtower that I knew of.
And they would tell the Customs and Border Protection, don't pay any attention to this airplane.
It's ours coming in, you know.
Yeah.
And I'd bring a ton of cocaine in or whatever, sell it on the street, and have money to finance whatever they wanted to do.
You know, they didn't even have to bribe them.
They just said on their authority, since it was the agency, they'd let it go.
That's right.
Like the diplomatic pouch, you know.
I've carried some of those.
You know how much contraband is come in and out of nations by means of diplomatic pouches.
Yep.
Yep.
Those are the ones that are chained to your arm and locked locked and everything.
So, right.
Every now and then they find someone with an arm cut off.
So the inconvenience.
Yep.
Well, they could give everything back and let them sew it back together, you know.
Yeah, right, right, right.
Bill, I wish you were in a position to implement the programs you know so well because it could make such a difference in the United States today.
Well, you know, I uh, there is a danger in doing that too, you know, because what that does is that that gives the uh existing structure, the um, a knowledge to be able to to basically uh monitor uh in near real time everybody on the planet and know exactly and get this gets into um Minority Report.
You remember that movie Minority Report?
Yeah, pretty gets into the concept of uh, of even being able to predict in advance uh activities, that uh or people who are likely to have crime, and things like that.
Not Minority Report did it on a small scale, you know right, I think this would give ability to do it on the entire planet continuously, but isn't that where we're heading anyway?
They're going to try to get there.
There's a lot of pitfalls in that, though.
That uh, you know I, I I did one program at NSA that took it right from antennas all the way through processing, analysis and reporting, so it just without any people involved at all, And that was my objective, to maximize that as much as possible, to force people to think about things at a higher scale,
you know, and at a higher level, to think of, stop doing the regular blogging type stuff and that kind of basic issue analysis and stuff like that.
Take all of that away.
Now you have to start to really think about what's going on and think about, you know, what capabilities exist, what the intentions are, what your entire target is going to do, you know, and look at it on a much higher level.
That was, I was trying to force them up that knowledge understanding and analysis level.
And I had diagrams to show that and everything, but, you know, everybody thought I was strange.
And NSA, they, first of all, once I did that program and started reporting, it was doing 10 times as much as anybody was doing out of NSA at the time, and also doing it almost infinitely faster.
It was in seconds of the events.
Yeah.
You know, what that meant was, and there was nobody looking at it.
See, so they said, we can't trust this.
We have to have people who know something to look at.
We have to have a person look at it.
My answer is, no, you don't.
Once you solve everything necessary to make the decisions, you do not need people to do that.
You simply implement the decisions.
Better off without them because they're going to introduce bias and personal.
I call them the most unreliable factor, is the people involved, but they're also the most creative.
Okay.
Yeah.
So they can be both at the same time.
But not in the implementation or let us say execution.
Yeah, right.
I mean, the point is, if you have to, especially you have to do things on a large scale.
If you have to do them on a large scale, people get tired really quickly.
And they can't make it through large-scale amounts of data.
So the point was, this is the only way to get through all the worldwide data and do the entire world simultaneously.
And so that's what I was doing at NSA.
And that's what they picked up to do the stellar wind program and the spying on everybody and the planet, you know, and metastasize that to the rest of the world, basically.
The concepts anyway.
How well they're doing.
They're still having a lot of trouble with the pitfalls that occur in decision-making on data, data validity.
And first of all, they don't even correct the data that they have.
Okay.
They don't correct it.
Because there's too much data.
How can you correct other ways to do that?
But they don't know how to do that.
Okay.
Or if they know how, they sure as hell aren't doing it.
Anyway, my point was you correct the data and then you figure out the intentions and capabilities and you start reporting it up to your knowledge and do profile development, profiles of interest, meaning you could intentionally infer what they're going to do, the intentions are, and also document that and also, you know, develop any new profiles as they go along automatically.
And I was going to do that through a basically a flowchart of transactional relationships, which I don't think they have any concept of how to do.
So that danger is that that would be there.
The other point was I was planning on, and there are ways to build in protections, which I was also advocating that we do.
And I would have to really take a hard look at that to see what kinds of protections would be best.
Especially my idea was very simple.
I talked to the computer department in Cambridge, England, also in MIT and various other places, that you have to plan for evil at the top.
Because evil will, you know, if you took, if you took like Catherine's deep capture process, evil moves up the line.
and then tends to capture the the entire pyramid of control of the business or enterprise.
And that's what's happened with our government right now.
So that's what we're facing is that deep capture of our government.
So, and like I say, the cabinet really doesn't understand, I think, the magnitude of the deep capture below them in their agencies.
They just don't really comprehend that.
Yeah, and they weren't really selected for their competent, but for their loyalty to the president.
Yeah.
Well, I was always hoping that somebody would actually start to do the right thing, something that would be conformed to the Constitution, you know, and the founding principles of our nation, which I thought was what everybody was fighting for.
I mean, even in some of the World War II guys who were giving statements for the historical museum, you know, they collected testimonies from different veterans for different wars.
And some of them were saying, you know, during the Biden administration, they were saying, you know, what did we fight for?
This is not the country we fought for.
Yeah.
You know, this is not, I mean, this is not the United States under the Constitution.
They've thrown that out.
Bill, if we go back to Poindexter and total information awareness, you know, and the name was so alarming, they changed it to terrorist information awareness, but they were still surveying everyone.
I mean, how do you know who are the terrorists if you don't survey everyone, right?
Well, you know, it seems to have evolved into this pal and tear.
I'm just wondering how you see this taking place because they haven't changed their objectives one iota.
No, but you know my view of that TIA program.
What they did was, first of all, NSA was already doing it.
They started it two years before the TIA program came out.
And they started spying on everybody, collecting the data, indexing according to the programs I had left them, and doing the entire design that I had left them, plugging that data in on everybody.
So they were already preparing it.
And they didn't let Congress know.
Only four people in Congress at the time knew that that was going on.
That's why Nancy Pelosi, remember when she said impeaching George Bush is off the table?
Yeah.
Well, she said that because she was the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee at the time.
Goss was the chairman.
And they were two of the four that were informed.
That was the chair and ranking members of the House and Senate intelligence committees.
Those were four.
They were the only ones who knew about it at the time.
And that's why she said that, because George could say, hey, you have to impeach yourself because you're a part of this too.
So that's why she had to say that.
She had to stop, not allow when she was the House speaker.
She would not allow that motion to go to the floor because she would be, George Bush would say, you have to impeach yourself too.
Yeah.
Because she agreed to the programs.
Yes.
Well, I mean, they have a objective of Profiling everyone.
I mean, it's all there, Bill, isn't it?
So going forward under the palette.
Well, I mean, after, but see, the TIA program was thrown out there with Poindexter to see what the reaction would be.
They did that publicly.
Yeah.
When they got that bad reaction, they pulled back in.
They kept it secret inside NSA and kept going with it.
Right.
And stop it.
They just stopped talking about it.
And then they were at the same time, you know, that's why they outsourced all the stuff we were doing to the two guys from Standard that formed Google, because that was their plan to move most of the culpability out to industry and have industry do the collection of data and be responsible for that so they could drain it off them, you know, and then they would be the ones responsible for it.
And not constrained by the Constitution or the exactly.
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
And that's why they did it.
Why you can't, really?
It's a deceptive move.
Yeah.
I think all these companies acting as agents for the state are as culpable as would be the state.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would say so.
Yeah.
But I mean, that's the way they did it that way.
And I think Pelleter and any number of others were just like Narris and Varent for the devices from Israel who did very similar things that we did because the 8200, the unit over there that's the equivalent of NSA for Israel, was given the software that we gave us the source code that we were developing without our knowledge, by the way, until we found out about it in 1999.
I did.
But they had given them all the software.
That the source code had come from Israel.
No, that they took the source code we developed in the SARC, the SIGIN Automation Research Center, and gave it to us.
Stuff probably you had developed.
Yes, and they gave it to Israel and 8200.
And the two guys from 8200 also formed Naris and Varent that sold almost the equivalent of kind of stuff that we were developing on the commercial market.
And then Hayden bought into the Naris insight devices that did 10 gigabit lines.
They would sessionize 10 gigabits of data, all of it.
That's how they could collect everything on the planet.
But we already had that software inside NFA.
And we developed it there, but they gave it away.
Bill, these data centers are popping up all over the country.
They consume huge amounts of electricity and water.
I think they're destroying the country.
Yeah, I don't even understand what they're going to do with them all.
What are they going to do with them?
You've already got all the data you could possibly want.
Exactly.
You know, the indexes we did with all the metadata would fit into, we had three versions of the indexes in three racks of equipment.
Now, what a rack of equipment is like a three foot by three foot square on the floor going eight foot high.
So if you go three foot by nine foot rectangle on the floor and then go up eight foot, that's what we had for the entire world.
All of it.
Yeah.
So what the hell is the rest of it?
Well, it's for content.
Okay.
They're trying to score store all the, you don't have to do that.
I mean, we showed them that you didn't have to do that.
You didn't have to give up privacy for security.
They already knew that, but they wanted what they wanted was power over everyone on the planet.
That meant they had to collect everything.
Bill, aren't they going to have more data than they can assess?
I mean, isn't it a sound?
Yeah, that's been the way that way since the 90s.
I mean, that's why we did the thin thread program to make it possible to manage vast amounts of data to be able to manage it to the point where analysts could actually succeed at what they're looking at.
You know, and pulling out only relevant material based on probable cause.
You could easily develop that for everybody.
We had discussed that deductive, inductive, and abductive approach and the logic and probable cause behind that.
That's the logic to use to select right up front the data.
That'll give you like 0.0001% of the data.
That's all you have to look at.
You don't have to look at the rest of it.
Managing Vast Data Efficiently00:03:40
The rest is irrelevant.
Yes.
Yes.
I think they're going to destroy the country in this pursuit of meaningless dribble.
It's outrageous.
Yeah, everybody's going to be doing the same damn thing and duplicating the same data in different data centers, capturing it all, trying to keep it all and trying to see what each and every one of them can do different from one another.
When in fact, I don't think they're going to do much more than what's already been happening.
And vast quantities of electricity and water to cool.
They're destroying our drinking water.
Their communities, they don't even have enough drinking water anymore because of one of these data centers.
Yeah, and they have to ask what do they contribute?
If they don't contribute that much or anything, why have them?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's just a waste of energy and money and resources.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Well, you know, when my Sandy Hook book was banned by Amazon, Mike Adams took it most seriously.
He did an interview with me where he called, because they banned my book, he called me the most dangerous mind in America.
Bill, I think that's really you, my friend.
And maybe in the world, I mean, you're just, you're really on top of it.
I wish to hell the government of the United States had much sense to utilize your ability.
As I say, you'd make a superb director of the RPI.
We really could get somewhere in solving crime.
So I just want you know, there's at least one American out there who appreciates what you have to offer, and it's a bloody shame the government is acknowledging.
That's my take.
Well, the thing, the problem I've seen is that what they've lost over 26 years that I've been out and prevented us from doing things for those 26 years, they've lost any further development from what we've left them, which they haven't improved on very much at all.
Yeah.
They lost all that, and they've lost any further advancing in what they call AI.
I don't call it AI, but I just call it, and they don't understand.
You can't let a program develop its own macros.
You can't let that happen without valid.
I mean, you can let it happen, but you have to put the macros in the corner, test them and verify and validate them before you put them into operation.
If you don't do that, the thing will just grow and grow and grow.
And that's going to make a lot of mistakes.
And when it starts making mistakes, they're going to go up exponentially.
And then it's going to get like a real mess.
Yes.
And it will be almost impossible to root it out of the software.
Yes.
Because it will be so permeated through it, you know?
Yes.
Again, I say, why you really are the guy who is entitled to that glorious title?
Bill, I can't thank you enough.
I love these conversations with you and Catherine.
They're just wonderful.
And, you know, I wish the whole world were watching and listening because they'd learned so much.
So it's Jim Fetzer, your host on a real deal special report with Catherine Hoat and Bill Benny under fire.
With Bill Benny, the most dangerous mind in the world, to put it mildly.