All Episodes
Previous
Feb. 5, 2026 - Jim Fetzer
01:03:20
REAL DEAL SPECIAL (4 February 2026): Katherine Horton & Bill Binney UNDER FIRE!
|

Time Text
Rumble And Release 00:07:47
Welcome to another real deal special interview with Catherine Horton and Bill Binney under fire.
Bill's recovering from recent attacks.
So I have Catherine here and I'm delighted.
And I was just sharing with her that this video fiend, the guy named who calls himself Victor Hugo Vaca, had over a thousand attacks on me and my colleagues yesterday on BitChute and Rumble.
And today I just checked and they're gone, all gone, all thousand.
And Catherine was speculating that maybe it's got to do with Dan Bongino being back in the saddle.
Catherine, your thoughts?
Well, you said it disappeared between yesterday and today.
And the only thing that happened yesterday was Dan Bongino's first ever Rumble show on the 3rd of February.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Yesterday was his first ever.
And, you know, well, maybe it was the 2nd of February.
Either way, I think Bongino took some time off a few weeks after he left the FBI.
And he's now back at work.
Now, we know he's an investor in Rumble.
You say you mentioned him in his court case.
It could just be the case that before he didn't have time to look at it and now he's back at work and he realizes somebody told him, oh shit, there's something that ties, you know, ties your Rumble platform or the stuff platform you invested in to the FBI and this harassment operation.
Because I'm telling you, the Victor Hugo Vakab nonsense is clean-cut FBI harassment.
It's so textbook, it's not funny.
And it could be that he made a phone call and he said, look, you know, I just came across my desk and you either tidy this up or else.
And look how quickly they can remove it when they want to, you know.
Pushing a button.
I was astonished, Catherine.
I'm astonished.
Yesterday, over a thousand of today's zip, zilts, not a zero.
Wow.
Yeah.
But you know, the other thing is, even if they removed it, the NSA databases still have the full record.
Rumble still has the full record because they store data and for legal reasons, they will have it on some backup server.
They will know who exactly uploaded all those.
And because we discussed, I don't think, you know, Hugo has enough tech skills to do it by himself.
So there was a team involved.
There was probably several IP addresses, several MAC addresses tied to this whole harassment campaign.
And then, you know, the NSA databases says have everything.
And the most important point is even if they removed it all now, they spent what, over a year harassing you and defaming you, hoping something would stick.
Almost exactly a year began in February last.
Yeah, maybe the funding ran out for this little psyop, you know?
I don't know.
But you know, I had filed lawsuits against Mitchie and Rumble after saying him complaint after complaint and cease and desist and the whole bit.
I went through all the legal measures and I filed a suit in the Western District right here in Wisconsin in August.
The judge is notoriously slow.
I mean, I've talked with local attorneys, so I don't think there's any corruption there, but the suits are still valid because they were violating their terms of service way back when.
And the fact that they've cleaned the slate now is going to maybe mitigate damages, but it's not going to otherwise affect the lawsuit.
Yeah.
Also, you know, when you say the judges are slow, that's just everyday corruption.
Judges can act just as fast when they want to.
You know, if you're seeking an injunction against something, they can do it overnight.
They can do it within an hour.
It's just that they don't want to.
And they have so settled into everyday corruption that people have accepted this as normal.
It absolutely isn't.
If it takes too long, then they have to hire more judges and process the cases faster.
It's unacceptable.
The judiciary will be the next line of battle here.
But anyway.
By the way, now, and it's really exciting, actually, in a positive way.
We have 3 million new pages of Epstein files.
And they were unable to redact them all.
I mean, Catherine, there's a huge amount of unbelievably awful, god-awful stuff in these 3 million pages.
Now, I believe the timing was such, we were supposed to be a war with Iran.
I think Trump planned to attack Iran.
I believe China declaring that if Iran were attacked, they would destroy Israel, threw it off.
And because he had it timed, he overlooked the fact they were going ahead with the Epstein release that was supposed to be suffocated by all the dudes about the war in Iran.
And it didn't happen.
And now we got the files staring us in our face and they are god-awful, god-awful.
Well, remember that it was actually Trump signing the order to release the Epstein files.
It's only thanks to Trump that we have these to start with.
You know?
Catherine, his name is in there over 5,000 times.
The next closest person is only 47, and that's his biographer, Michael Wolf.
So he's in there 100 times more than the next most mentioned person.
Okay, but with every one of those 5,000 times, you need to actually look at what exactly those things say because people have sent me excerpts about that.
We need to analyze it because they would also contain mentions of Trump when Epstein and Wolf discuss how to set up Trump.
So just doing a simple dictionary query and looking at, you know, frequencies is not enough.
One has to really look into it.
But we have to remember it's Trump who signed the order to release this.
Without Trump, had it just been left to Pam Blondie and Kash Patel, we would have never seen any of this.
It was public pressure by patriots and Trump actually saying, fuck the donors, let's release this.
But what's amazing is just overnight, I mean, also, he has to keep kind of international alliances.
And one of the first person to go down hard is the brother of the king of England, right?
Prince Andrew, did you hear that?
That in the middle of the night, he moved out of the royal lodge.
That guy skedaddled.
I'm not up on this.
Tell me more.
Yes.
So I think from what I know, which is not very much, but I think Prince Andrew was already moved out of a swanky danky place, whatever it was.
I think it was Sandringham, whatever.
Then they moved him to something called the Royal Lodge, which is still freaking royal, but a step down.
And then he skedaddled to a place that I think is now being renovated.
And he was meant to wait.
It's basically like a little cottage.
If you watch, you know, British murder mysteries when they go out into the Cotswolds.
It's a little cottage like that, slightly bigger than the average, but it's where Kamina would live, not where the brother of the king would live.
And that guy just skedaddled in the middle of the night, literally moving vans in the middle of the night.
So next morning he was gone.
So yes, it's bad.
It's real bad.
The middle of the night.
I love it.
Yeah.
So, you know, but the good thing is, I mean, I know people are just like so desperate to find stuff on Trump.
And I'm like, what about the others?
There are thousands of other people involved here who sacrificed children, who murdered children.
Where are the children?
What are the names?
Iran's Desperate Suppression 00:06:33
You know, where did they come from?
Which foster system were they stolen from?
Were they stolen all from the border?
What's happening?
There's so many more important questions, and people are obsessed to try to destroy Trump.
But he was the first informant about Epstein, and it's his signature that gave us these millions of files.
That's an important point.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It's a great argument.
Great.
Yeah, but also, I'm still waiting for him to bomb the shit out of Iran.
I don't think he should let the Epstein release hold him back.
Fuck China.
Seriously, no, because the people of Iran are desperate.
This is their one shot at freedom.
And the stuff that I hear every time I talk to my friend who is Iranian and has family back in Tehran, it is terrifying what they're doing to the population.
You know, Catherine, you know, we have such a difference here.
I've been to Iran.
I was there in 2014.
My admiration for Iran is enormous.
It's the most peace-dedicated nation in the world.
They haven't launched a war of aggression against any other state since 1775.
The Declaration of Independence was 1776.
So for longer than the United States has existed as a constitutional republic, Iran has not launched a war of aggression.
I admire Iran.
I think they have a great culture going back thousands of years.
And I suspect the parties you've been talking to have grudges because they're no longer in power.
They no longer have their wealth.
They fled because they don't want their women to be subjugated under a black fucking blanket because the subjugation of women was never part of Iranian culture.
The fucking hijab shadow, whatever you want to call it, that bullshit.
It was Zoroastrians.
Do you think that's still going on?
I didn't see that without.
Fuck yes.
I mean, my friend visited her family and she said that the crazy thing is she went there as a girl who, well, they, um, they and I, we arrived in Germany roughly at the same time.
I think they were there, I think, a year or two years, three years before us, but we roughly fled to Germany the same time.
Me from communist Romania with my parents, they fled Iran, right?
And gosh, they got German citizenship and they traveled back to visit family.
And my friend who grew up, you know, as a Western girl, I mean, that's the thing.
The Western culture doesn't clash with real Iranian culture at all.
They were very Westerners, you know, Western in the 60s and 70s.
It was very liberal.
And then she says that when she goes back, all the women have to go through these rigmaroles to like really cover their hair and cover themselves in this like fucking black when it's you know 40 degrees Celsius outside in the summer.
It is horrific just to wear this shit.
And then she says she was met by other family members and distant relatives at the airport.
And then they go home and as soon as the front doors close, all the women throw the shit off.
And she said it was like the fresh prince of Bel Air because apart from her, all the women wearing high heels and cocktail dresses because that's how they dress.
So if you're middle class, you literally go full on, you know, Miami Beach outlook because that's what they are like.
They're modern, they're advanced, the women are empowered.
All the Iranians in the West run businesses.
The women run businesses.
They're the most independent, strong-minded women you can imagine.
And this is a back home.
It's clashing with this medieval, I swear, CINMI 6-imposed bullshit, Islamist bullshit.
And it's not even their indigenous religion.
You know, it's completely imposed on them.
It's subjugated them.
And this criminal regime, you know, forcefully brings them continuously into cross purposes with the West and then sanctions and the complete destruction of the country, bleeding it dry, you know, making it a very poor country.
It's completely by design, and they haven't attacked anybody because it's completely controlled by my six in the CIA.
They are puppets, of course.
They're not going to attack anybody.
You know, it's they are basically pawns in this globalist bullshit scheme, and they had enough.
The people want to live freely and, you know, just normally away from this medieval bullcrap.
They are not like Saudi Arabia was because people forget, but Saudi Arabia, not that long ago, before they found oil, was basically a nomad nation.
I'm sorry, I don't want to insult anybody, but it was, you know, it wasn't as advanced as Iran.
They're also not Afghanistan, which is, yeah, that's backward, right?
So, yes, they do subjugate the women like backward cultures sometimes do, especially in rural environments, but that's not Iran.
Iran was always very well educated, very sophisticated.
You know, like the Japanese, they're all about politeness and hospitality, extremely elaborately polite, you know, in social conversation.
So, you can't throw them together with the Saudis and the Afghans.
They loathe it, by the way, when you do that.
It's a bit like throwing the Americans together with Nicaraguans, right?
Or the Hungarians with the Gypsies in Transylvania, right?
We each take offense, right, for our individual reasons.
But they just want to be rid of this bullshit regime, you know.
And they are desperate.
They are desperate not to have homosexuals stoned to death and thrown off buildings and shit like that.
Or women flogged because somebody said they cheated on their husband.
Flogged to death.
Yes, it's happening.
And how can we even stand for that in the you know, in this day and age?
So I really, I really hope that I just wish the U.S. Air Force would take the drone that they're using to shoot the house and shot my head last night so that the two metal helmets I'm sleeping with were banging so that Bill could hear it, you know.
And they would take the fucking drone and just shoot some, you know, some mullahs over there.
Take them out.
That shit is invisible.
I can only see it with my spectrum analyzers.
Come on, fly to Iran, shoot some fuckers, and then I'll call it quits.
You know, I'll not sue the US Air Force because the evil cancels with their doing good.
Tell me what you really think.
Exactly, right?
That's what I think.
So Iran is still on the to-do list.
They should Venezuela, Iran, as far as I'm concerned.
Epstein Files Revelations 00:15:13
But the Epstein files are, isn't it fucking amazing that it's now all in the open?
Yeah, yeah, it's astonishing.
We never thought it would actually happen.
And I believe, as I was saying, that they thought they would be suppressing it because of the war.
I think, honestly, this the way the war blew his cover.
That's how I see it.
I think when he put this signature on the dotted line, he knew it's going to be released.
That was the point.
I think he was hesitant because look at the people that's taking this stuff is taking down.
The brother of the king of England, right?
And we're meant to have a special relationship with the Brits, right?
But also Peter Thiel, the guy behind JD Vance, right?
I think if we dig deeper, there will be a lot more other people who are donors and rich people.
You know, it's basic.
Well, people have to realize that this is how the old system was run.
It was run with blackmail.
If you were somebody, you had a control file on you.
If you didn't have a control file, you didn't stay a billionaire very long because the cabal would basically conspire against you and asset strip you or destroy you or set you up or just kill you outright.
So a very large number of billionaires and rich and famous have control files.
Some of them because they're genuinely pedophiles, others because they were drugged and they woke up next to a dead child.
You know, that happened too.
Or they were so electronically mind-controlled that they just didn't know what they were participating in.
It is the intelligence agencies have used every trick in the book to get compromise on everybody they could.
And this is now the system we're rolling back.
And my interest beyond taking out the real evil motherfuckers is also to completely dismantle this system because it's holding humanity back.
You know?
Well, tell me what you found in the Epstein piles so far that is really shocked, horrified.
God, I mean, I knew a lot of this stuff before and I have deduced it separately.
So, Bill, for example, today, he was watching the video talking about the Epstein files, and he was telling me all excitedly that, oh, yes, and it's basically what I've been saying all these years.
It's deep capture, it's these systems being taken over, it's a system of control file-based system and the stuff about bestiality and blah, blah, blah, and you know, child sacrifice and everything, okay?
Everything we've been saying about these about it all these years.
And I was pointing out to him that I deduced it without having the concrete Epstein files.
So what people need to realize is that it all goes back to very simple systems analysis principles, okay, that bring about deep capture.
And once you write down the map or the physical laws of the system, everything else follows, quite simply.
What I mean by that is the following: if you take a deep breath and you start off with a normal company and a company that does illegal stuff, so organized crime, if it's businesses of identical size, organized crime is going to grow faster than a normal business by the rate of taxation.
So if the taxation is whatever it is, 1%, 5%, 8%, whatever, and organized crime is not taxed, then the organized crime business, even if it starts out the same size, will go bigger at the rate of 8%, 20, 30%, whatever the tax rate is.
Okay.
So that's step number one.
You can already see that if you start with organized crime seated in the economy, organized crime is going to grow faster than the normal economy.
Step number two is antitrust regulation.
When organized crime reaches a certain size, it will start taking over other businesses, just like normal businesses would eat up other businesses.
But in the normal economy, when you reach a certain size, at least on paper, there's antitrust regulation.
Of course, in real life, there isn't, and we just have Google and Microsoft.
But, you know, on paper, some countries still have this.
Now, in organized crime, there is no antitrust regulation.
So in the shortest amount of time, you will have a mega monopoly of organized crime.
And once this mega monopoly forms, it can never ever be undone.
The one mega monopoly will grow bigger and bigger and take over other countries' organized crime until it becomes one global cabal.
It follows from the laws of system physics.
And yes, there's evidence for this.
For example, by what's his name, Gladwell, I think, the journalist, British journalist who are Malcolm Gladwell, Mike Gladwell, whatever.
He wrote a book called Mech Mafia, talking about the fact that organized crime is surprisingly global.
They have a global supply chain, just like Ziemanz or Walmart or McDonald's would have.
Yes, that's what you expect from the laws of system physics.
Okay.
So the other thing that follows is that by now, given that organized crime has been with us for millennia, there's only one global cabal, one global cabal.
Know them as the globalists, right.
Right they are.
They are in organized crime, with drug trafficking, arms trafficking, sex trafficking, any sort of trafficking, any sort of crime uh, financial crime blah blah blah, blah.
Right, it's just one network by now.
There are no competitors, right?
So that follows also from systems analysis.
Now, what also follows is that at the very top of organized crime, you will have almost a pure collection of psychopaths, And the only way to keep a system of collaborating psychopaths stable over years, let alone centuries and so on, is by making these psychopaths commit crimes together, and everybody holds the control file on everybody else, right?
You can map it out, you can build a system model, but this is what will fall out at the end.
So when you have control files, you can think about what are the control files that were good.
Back in the Victorian age, you know, 19th century, cheating on your spouse was a control file, cavorting with prostitutes, being an alcoholic, you know, back then opium, these days, any sorts of, you know, drugs and so on.
Being a transvestite, being gay, these were all viable control files and they've fallen away one after the other.
Being gay is dead, fashionable.
Cavorting with prostitutes and drinking and taking drugs is just another Tuesday afternoon in DC.
It's not really a valid control file, right?
So the only thing you're left with is those that are so heinous that they will never be acceptable.
So for example, pedophilia, but also bestiality and also necrophilia and murder, these four, right?
So I mapped this out back when I was talking about the caption in 2016.
And back then I said, as you're peeling this back, you will not just find the pedophiles, you will find the necrophiles and you will find those who basically have sex with animals.
So sex with corpses and sex with animals.
I got so much ridicule back then.
And I just said, hey, fuck you guys.
That's just what the laws of physics say.
So deal with it.
Unless you found these people, you haven't pulled back the curtain far enough.
And sure enough, soon after that, it became known that Jimmy Savile, a child entertainer, who was, he had basically a red carpet entry to the royal family and was big buddies with Prince Philip, the father of the current king.
He was a necrophile.
He used to go to one of the major child hospitals' morgues and he was given free entry and he used to bang child corpses.
God.
Now, if you do this sort of stuff, it doesn't escape MI5's attention that you're just hopping over to the whatever child hospital, right?
And by the way, the director was in on it as well.
So the director must also be of that type because when old Jimmy Saville rocked up, he was like, hey, there you go, old chap.
You just have at it.
Switch off the lights when you're done.
So the number of men involved in this is staggering.
But if you just lean back and you think about, okay, there's only one way to run this system.
And it's this way.
It falls out that these are the control files.
Another thing that will fall out is that Jimmy Saville was not the only one.
There are, it's probably a standard thing that the intelligence agencies go into a child hospital somewhere in a remote rural area and use the morgue for their rituals at night, right?
They have to, or they by now they procure child corpses by another means.
But the thing that falls out is that this is all over the world by now, the same system, the same system.
So if you find one, it's kind of precedent for, it establishes the pattern, but we have to look for all the other, you know, people who are involved and so on.
Anyway, so another thing that falls out from this, once you've understood the, you know, the pedophilia, the necrophilia and the bestiality is also bestiality.
I mean, they make jokes about Afghans, you know, fucking goats and stuff like that, or the whales shagging sheep, but bestiality is typically, I think for the Western world, still just too, you know, off the pale and too far out there.
And yet, and yet, we have the furry movement.
And absolutely everybody who is involved in some FBI staged bullshit shooting seems to have a boyfriend in the furries, right?
I'm talking about Tyler Robinson, who's, you know, boyfriend.
And then they claim that Thomas Crookes was also.
It's all made up shit, but why are they making it up?
It's because the fairies are bestiality light.
You're not actually fucking an animal.
You're fucking a guy who's dressed up as an animal.
You're halfway there, right?
But once you understand it, the system needs it because they are running out of control files.
So there we go, right?
Back in the day, Hunter Biden's coke snorting of hookers' asses was a viable control file.
These days, it's like, yeah, and so what?
You know, nobody got really upset about that.
Everybody was upset about the money laundering and stuff like that.
But for an organized crime cartel, it's a real problem when you can't blackmail people with their vices anymore.
The other thing you can't blackmail men with is that they like to wear women's clothes.
I mean, God, it will just fast track you to become minister of defense in the UK, you know, or over here.
So do you see?
So with time, we have just, or they have, imploded their own control files and we're now down to the most gruesome stuff.
And that's exactly what you find in the Epstein files.
Darling.
Yeah, but the crazy thing is that all this falls out if you just make a good model and write down the laws of or the dynamics of this model that you built for a system and you just, you know, run the maths or run the model and everything falls out.
Everything falls out.
So another thing I can tell you is just from mapping the system that if you take, think about deep caches, you've got an organogram and it gets captured.
And then, you know, once a psychopath or criminal reaches the top, they will start populating the organization.
So the next level of management below them and then the layer below that, all the psychopaths and criminals.
So after a while, you have a really corrupt organization like the FBI.
Okay.
But when you do that and you have a pure work environment of psychopaths who would gladly, you know, stick their own mother into a microwave for $5, these guys will stab you in the back, you know, for 50, 50 cents.
So how do you make this system stable?
And one way that it becomes stable by itself, eventually certain psychopaths or cliques of psychopaths will win out against others.
And these cliques are slightly close, more closely bonded than those other free-floating psychopaths.
And one way of closer bonding of psychopaths is through sex.
So male psychopaths, homosexual psychopaths that kind of, you know, like to bang other homosexual psychopaths will form cliques and with time eliminate everybody else.
So if you have a system that's big enough to accumulate enough psychopaths or old enough that this cycle has been running long enough, you will expect to find a core of ruthless, murderous, gay psychopaths.
Right?
It just, that's just what the system, you know, dynamics determines.
Now, if you look through history, the Knights Templar were famous for their ruthless murdering and for being raving gay, right?
So was the Gestapo.
Same thing.
Ruthless, psychopathic, and really gay in their little leather outfits, right?
And again, this is nothing to do with homosexuality.
It is a selection bias.
So if you're gay and a psychopath, you have more success of lasting longer in the system than if you're not, you know?
So another thing that I will predict is as we're peeling the curtains back, we know that we're getting closer to the core and getting closer to the top when we hit the layer of psychopathic gay guys.
And again, they are first selected for psychopathy and then the gayness is their survival mechanism.
It's not the other way around.
It's not that gay people like to take over the world or are more likely to be psychopaths.
Not at all.
It's the other way around.
So the example I always use on my YouTube videos is that back in the day, if you say a Victorian guy who's cheating on tax, it really helped you get away with it if you were banging your secretary.
So if we had a way to go through all the cases and find every single guy who cheated on their tax, the ones who were most successful most likely slept with their secretaries.
But it's not true in reverse.
Just because you sleep with your secretary doesn't mean that you're more likely to cheat tax.
Do you see what I mean?
So it's the same thing.
So once you're a psychopath in the globalist environment, hey, it really helps if your back doors open for business.
Otherwise, they'll kill you.
So there you go.
There we go.
I'm still waiting to find out.
Well, I already have data on MI6 and MI6, British intelligence, was famous for being very gay at the top.
Shedding the Deep State 00:15:15
And again, that's exactly what you would expect.
You know, psychopathic serial killers taking each other out and kind of sparing those they just happen to fancy, you know?
Astonishing.
Yes.
So no surprise.
Today, to be honest, I was almost a bit upset because Bill came really excitedly and he said to me, oh, they are talking about deep capture.
And this guy, he was going on about, he called it, he called it pathology and the system.
Well, it's not pathology, it's psychopathy specifically.
But anyway, and he's like, yes, and they were talking about all this, the child sacrificer and blah, blah, blah.
And I actually said to him, I showed you my research credentials.
I showed you my work.
And you just thought, okay, it could be.
But then when some random guy on YouTube tells you the same thing, you're like, oh, wow, it must be true.
So yeah.
It's like my wife doesn't believe me on anything since JFK, you know, Sandy Hook, Boston bombing.
Yeah, right.
I'm some kind of nutchop.
But maybe, I don't know, she saw it on TV.
Maybe she believe it, you know?
She will.
As soon as she sees it on TV, she's like, damn, this is true.
I got to hear more from you, Catherine.
You're just encyclopedia here.
You're giving me information, insights I never would have imagined in my wildest dreams.
I want more.
Give me more.
Well, here's not a good thing.
So here's the real thing, the next step, because we are in the phase where we're basically waking up to this information.
We're peeling back the curtain.
And, you know, some of us already know what's behind the curtain.
Other people are finding it out for the first time.
Doesn't matter.
We're basically all having this information now revealed to us so we can look at it.
It will be known and so on.
But the next question is, how are we going to tidy this up?
Okay.
And it ties in with going back to Dan Bongino, his show yesterday, the first show he did after leaving the FBI.
He said, oh, we got in and we found two FBIs in the same agency.
And he was referring to the normal FBI you would expect and the deep state FBI.
And I thought, dude, you didn't know that going in?
I mean, you had a remit of draining the swamp and then you found the swamp.
But the way he started talking about it afterwards, I realized that nobody in the Trump administration genuinely understands how to cycle the system out of deep capture.
You know, just as I can write down the laws of the system, so the structure and the dynamics and figure out all this stuff about, you know, bestiality and pedophilia, you can also look at the system, look at the organogram, make a model of where basically the black, the bad nodes are in the system and think about how are we going to cycle it out.
Because what most people do is that they use a management approach and it's very phenomenological.
You go into an organization, you come across some corrupt bastards, and then you try to sack them.
Okay, but that's very slow.
And then the other corrupt bastards you haven't unmasked yet will replenish the system or will just wait for you to retire and then regain, you basically recapture the system.
So one has to use mathematical and technical approaches to take an organization that's the FBI that has nominally 38,000 employees.
In reality, they have millions of gangstalkers.
So it's an organization of millions of people.
Most people don't know it.
If you take, for example, the Secret Service, right, that also was shit mixing at Butler at the highest level, that has nominally 8,000 employees.
That's already big enough.
So how do you cycle an organization with 8,000 people out of deep capture to ensure that the management and middle management doesn't contain any swamp creatures?
So for that, one has to go back to Bill's approach, Synthread, and map the deep state networks using their communications, any lead that you can find, and map them and see how many of those links and ties go back into the organization.
But one has to do a detour via the NSA databases, via sophisticated graphing of relationships and the bad relationships, right?
And find out who these people are.
And that's the only way to do it effectively.
And it's the system that has to be now, or the approach that has to be now taken, because Trump is running out of time.
He has three years.
And if he doesn't drain the deep state and puts in systems that are self-healing, so there's ways to make a system also resilient against deep capture, unless he does that, the system is just going to reassemble itself and basically kill him and his family members.
Just like they took out the Kennedys once after the other, right?
They will do the same thing with the Trumps.
And the only way to do that is to use scientific, technical methods of cycling the entire U.S. government and especially the military and the intelligence agencies out of deep capture.
And when I was desperately trying to get to Trump before he was inaugurated back in September, that's what I was trying to explain.
And what I wanted to say to if I if I ever had had gotten through to Sean Curran and Trump, right, what I would have said is, guys, we know the system is in deep capture, every single aspect of the government.
It's like you are on a Boeing that is nosediving with both engines broken, all four engines broken, and it's heading towards a mountain.
Now, you have to repair one engine to get thrust and be able to pull up, right?
A Boeing can fly with one engine.
You have to start with the smallest because, and the most system, what's it called, system-critical agency to pull up this plane first.
And that's the Secret Service because it's only 8,000 people and not 38,000 people like the FBI.
So you have to cycle the Secret Service out of deep capture first.
It will be the easiest, it will be the quickest, and it will be the most critical for the survival of the president and his family members, right?
So you would start with the Secret Service, cycle that out of deep capture, use all the leads that you have found on the way to tackle the FBI next, tackle the military, and so on and so on.
But you have got to start with the Secret Service.
There's no other way.
And that's pretty, I mean, that's kind of already what's being revealed because Sean Kerner was one of the guys who was in the line of fire.
I don't think he was involved in Butler because it would have been suicidal to be a co-conspirator and then literally stand in the downstream, you know, path of the bullets.
So that was already a good move by Trump to put him in power, but more steps need to be done to remove all the lower levels of management that are still the deep state creatures that were put in by Kim Cheetle and her ilk there.
So that's it.
So this is really the battle line for the next coming year, 2026.
The most important thing is to cycle the Secret Service completely out of deep capture, start on the FBI and use a systems analysis approach for this, combined with Bill Binney's Thin Thread, mapping all the deep state networks together.
That's basically it.
So for this reason, I mean, Bill was trying to put together a proposal to Trump because his program Thin Thread right now, we don't think it's still in existence.
The NSA did their utmost to utterly destroy Thin Thread because Thin Thread would have within seconds unmasked their own corrupt schemes within NSA and within the US government.
So the entire deep state would just fall out super quickly.
But, you know, the goal is to basically find a way to put Thin Thread back in action and then let it just run over the entire database to find you can prevent, according to Bill, you can find the worldwide deep state network immediately.
And he explained that Thin Thread that was analyzing the full NSA databases cost only 3 million to develop, to build and to deploy.
$3 million, right?
So the Super Bowl ad for the Secret Service was $2 million.
So for $3 million, you can uncover any and all organized crime in the world, right?
So $3 million.
And also in terms of, you know, Trump is being talked by the military and by the, you know, by Facebook into signing off on these mega data centers.
And one was like the size of Manhattan.
Well, Bill Binney's, you know, genius, efficient design, it was enough.
He said they used three racks of computers and one rack is three feet by three feet, right?
So you have a total of nine feet cooled by fans, nothing fancy.
And I said to him, you know what?
These three racks of computers fit into the average walk-in pantry in a middle-class home.
You know?
The linen closet plus the pantry.
That's the storage space you need.
So such limits to do such vast good work.
Exactly, exactly.
And I'm just hoping that now with the Epstein files, people get into the habit of basically unmasking the rich and famous.
And now we have to start healing the system, start getting them out.
Yes, court cases, whatever, jail time.
But even more important than court cases is removing these people from the system permanently and having safeguards so that the system can never ever be captured.
And with the system, I mean the DOJ, the FBI, the military, the government, Congress, and all these things.
Wow.
They need you in Washington, Catherine.
Well, you know, I tried to tell them.
I tried to tell them in September 2024.
And I, you know, neither Bill nor I need money or attention or anything.
It's just about there is a really dumb, corrupt way of doing it, an inefficient way of doing it.
And there's a really elegant way of doing it.
But for that, one needs brains.
And that's the one thing that they are really short of in the U.S. government.
You know, it's really, and Bill Binney with an IQ of 200 cannot be replaced by two guys with an IQ of 100 each.
That's not all the direct works.
One of the very interesting videos analyzing the Epstein corruption is talking about how these organizations to take control, yes, prey on weaknesses and rather along the lines you were sketching, though you were far more detailed and precise.
But he was saying this, it winds up that the system becomes increasingly corrupt and incompetent.
That the corruption and the incompetence go together, leading to a collapse of the system.
And I think that's where we are right now in Washington, D.C. So corrupt, so incompetent at the same time.
I mean, one absurd, wildly inappropriate decision after another.
And it's just like a cascade of idiocy.
Yes, correct.
Now, what you describe is actually, I made a YouTube video about that in 2016, December 2016, and it's my basic systems analysis course.
So you have deep capture, the first process people need to understand.
Then what follows is exactly what you described, which is basically a system inversion.
So what happens is when criminals and corrupt guys get to the top, the next level of management has to be either as corrupt as them or really dumb, gullible, and sterile.
So the lower you get through the system, the dumber people are because they're hired to be dumb and pliable and gullible, right?
And then with time, all the smart guys are being sacked or put to the bottom of the pile.
And, you know, the dumb people get hired up and go higher and higher because they are so controllable.
And what you end up with is the best people being outside or below the system, bottom rung.
And the top of the pyramid is all being populated by utter idiots and outright ruthless criminals.
And it's this happy mix of the two together, you know?
So exactly.
And again, you can write down a model and it will fall out as the only way this system could evolve.
It's an end state determined by the laws of system physics.
Another thing you need to be aware of, the third process that I described in my YouTube videos 10 years ago, Jim, 10 years ago, was shedding, system shedding.
That's a huge problem for the intelligence agencies because the intelligence agencies, you know, kind of groom, recruit, train the sickest psychopaths in society.
They have all these, you know, assassins and whatnot, and all these infiltrators, saboteurs, professional liars.
But the organization, as far as government is concerned, is a fairly fixed size.
So as people retire, go into private industry, this toxic environment basically spawns, just like tumor cells, cancer spawns these tumor cells that grow into cancer elsewhere.
And this process of shedding employees also leads to an effect where the kind of off-map version of this system is much bigger than the original system.
So there's the FBI with 38,000 employees, but the shedding from the FBI and the CIA is much bigger because it's the total integral of all the employees, past employees who are still alive.
And they will then form a parallel organization, which many people know as Lockheed Martin, which many say is the biggest intelligence agency in the world.
So, you know, that's another thing we have to brace ourselves for as we're moving in on the corruption, which I tell you will lead to the intelligence agencies.
There will be an entire, even bigger system that we're mostly blind to outside of government, right?
Pivot and Debunked Claims 00:15:54
That we also have to drain.
And if we don't drain that, it's that private corporation that will kill Trump and his family members.
So that's the work that we have, you know, to do.
So shedding is like spawning.
Yes.
So I used the word system shedding back in 2016.
And, you know, the system inversion, deep capture existed before, but system inversion and shedding, I don't think anybody described it before me.
So it's terms I made up, just like cartel signaling, the internal, you know, signaling to their minions in, you know, in public announcements and so on, cartel signaling.
So these are a couple of you know technical terms I coined because I needed to describe a certain book, it would be a bestseller.
I, it, I, Bill was telling me that I should this put this in a book, and I wanted to for the last 10 years.
It's just that targeting and you know, running the house and cleaning the floors have prevented me from doing that.
You should do this.
I shall.
Look, you don't understand.
The insights you have are otherwise non-existent.
You need to prolive her right.
This needs to get out.
A book would be timely, it would be so well received.
People would understand things they are never going to figure out in their whole lives.
They're going to go to their death not having understood things you've outlined here in less than an hour.
If you say that people would be interested, I might just sit down on my ass and actually write this thing.
Catherine, I'm telling you, they would be.
It would be sensational.
Okay.
Then I'll send you a lot of things.
I will have you on every opportunity I have to promote it, talk about it.
This is hugely important.
Yeah.
You know, the thing is, the reason why I are in possession of insights that are profound.
And I know of no other source.
I mean, I think this is fabulous.
I'm learning more from this little lecture than I have from any other lecture I've ever had.
And I've been through quite a few.
That is such a compliment.
I've applauded you.
Wow.
I'm floored.
I okay.
I shall sit down tomorrow.
Get started.
This is wonderful and invaluable.
Yeah.
Here's the thing: the reason why I even started looking into it, and I should say, after, so I was first a particle physicist.
I changed to medical physics.
Three of my projects were destroyed, destroyed at Oxford and the Institute of Cancer Research with mind-boggling corruption.
So the last year of my fellowship, I could do whatever I wanted.
I had money and I could just research anything under that fellowship.
And I changed to systems analysis because I wanted to, so I call it the physics of complex human systems.
I wanted to understand the financial crisis and the legal system, why is it so corrupt and inefficient?
And I ended up studying currency systems, the economy, organized crime, because I met it in all the fields I ever looked at.
And I basically kind of felt my way to the elephant in the room, right?
By going along its trunk and its tail.
And I figured out the whole thing was hanging together.
And I got into systems analysis because, just like with physics, you can make sense of the entire natural world around you.
You understand why the planets are rotating around the sun that they do.
And suddenly, when you understand the basic laws, everything else falls out in greatest detail.
So that's what I did.
And I just want to bring it to the Trump administration because once they have this mental model in their mind, they can predict things.
Things will not catch them by surprise, like when Bongino went and found two FBIs and the FBI.
It just falls out that way, right?
And it just makes your life very easy, very predictable.
And also, you become hugely effective fighting back because you know exactly where to apply the lever to pivot the system.
So that's another thing, by the way, pivot.
It was her name was Dr. Danella Meadows, another systems analyst that I respect a lot.
She wrote down a lot of the principles and wrote a book about this, about systems analysis, Danella Meadows.
And she was the one who coined pivot points.
So when you have a complex system, you can't just change it overnight, typically.
But when it gets into certain non-linear states, you know, states of transition, there are certain highly unstable points that you can use as pivot points.
So you can really make it, you know, flip around.
For example, for example, if you try to flip a car on its roof, it's typically very hard, especially when it's a pickup truck.
Okay.
So a pickup truck is driving along.
You can't just flip it on its roof.
But when you get it into a situation like it's going uphill, up a steep hill, it takes a very little energy to make that damn thing, you know, flip on itself.
So those external situations bring about a pivot point where the energy required to really pivot the system reduces drastically.
So a car on the road is one example, but when you have complex human systems, you have exactly the same thing.
External conditions bring about certain reactions inside the system and so on and so on.
And this state of transition can give you a pivot point where overnight you can flip a system around.
In a sense, Trump's election was a pivot point.
It required his particular personality to even just say things like, hey, you know how he unmasks the entire fake news and humiliates them almost daily.
We just take it for granted that he does that, but no president would have ever dared to go up against the mainstream media before him, right?
He just walked all over Caitlin Watts' face from CNN, right?
That was last night.
He just does it, you know.
But because he was, he is a pivot point in the complex human system of the US government, you know, and one has to make use of these pivot points.
I'm telling you, Jim, even if you don't like the guy, I happen to love the guy, but even if you don't like the guy, he's undeniably a pivot point.
And we either use this pivot point or we're fucked.
So, you know.
Well, it's been a dilemma for me because I've been so supportive and had so many hopes.
And then it seemed to be a catastrophe.
He's become a warmonger and all this stuff about even Epstein is describing Trump as like the most lacking and conscious empathy immoral person he's ever known.
Epstein describing Trump.
I mean, it's astonishing, Catherine.
I just have not, you know, I'm not.
I have to read the passage.
I have to find a context because also remember that Epstein, for sure, he himself is a psychopath.
Okay.
They can be very charming, but also depending on what he wants to achieve, you know, he might have ulterior motifs to paint somebody one way or another.
For example, if you want to recruit somebody, you would have to paint them as the most ruthless psychopath to make the other guys even take note.
You know, why would they hire soy boy into their ranks?
That's if you want to hire somebody.
If you want to paint somebody as an enemy you need help with in handling him, you can't just say, oh, I'm so pathetic.
I can't even deal with this nice guy.
You know, if you want to recruit the help of the whole psychopathic system of the globalists and say, hey, we need to get rid of Trump, you would have to paint him as Satan himself to explain why you couldn't handle him.
Why do you have to escalate it up the ranks of management for somebody else to come along and help you?
So it depends on what Epstein with the manipulative pedophile was trying to do there.
So I really would like to read the full context.
Well, it's out there.
I'm telling you, look at Melania.
I don't believe that a woman like Melania, she is a lot more independent than people realize.
She would not stand for that shit.
She would not stand for that shit.
She's not, you know, the average bimbo who just needs a billionaire's bank account to satisfy her shopping sprees.
She's highly intelligent, very measured, very thoughtful.
And for her, it's all about class and elegance and leaving a legacy that you can be proud of.
You know, anything that solves that legacy, anything that dents the presidential image, even if it's just innocently Trump, you know, dancing and motivating people, she doesn't like it.
It's not presidential enough.
So do you think she would put up with him doing some crazy shit?
No way.
No way.
Absolutely.
The story you get on Melania is she was one of Epstein's girls.
He introduced her to Trump.
She had some cosmetic surgery.
And because of her modeling experience, she's been able to handle it.
I think she's the most elegant first lady we've had since Jacqueline Kennedy.
I love her manner in public.
I like how she presents herself.
I tend to think she's a person of quality, but she's been trashed by all this backstory about where she came from and what she's all about.
And what is being said about Trump is just horrifying.
Remember, it's the same system.
It is the very same system that was praising Jill and Biden, Jill and Joe Biden.
Oh my God.
It's the same system that put Jill Biden on the cover of Vogue three or four times.
No merit there with Jill and wasn't even the real Joe, you know, Catherine.
That was a fake Biden for four years.
I know, but they couldn't find a fake that was actually legally competent and could sting that sentence together.
Yeah, the whole thing was.
That's where they wanted somebody they could completely control.
And with the autopin, you know, he didn't, he didn't make any decisions a whole four years in office.
Yeah, exactly.
I went back and got old video of the real Joe from Delaware.
He's very articulate, very expressive, used his hands like I do.
And he had a diff he's got different signature.
He's got a different shape of skull.
I mean, I went through all this.
The guy we had for four years, they called Biden wasn't even a close facsimile.
It was ridiculous and insulting.
You know, all this stuff is going on, all this, you know, buddy doobles and stand-ins and all that sort of stuff.
But it's just like, if we just draw a bottom line, because it's so easy to get disheartened.
And this is why defamation is just so toxic, because once it plants the seed of doubt in your mind, the slightest thing can be used as proof of that, you know?
I have been hit with so much defamatory horseshit, you wouldn't believe.
Yeah, yeah.
Even from seemingly reputable sources like the Chronicle of Higher Education.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Now, if you go through that, somebody who wouldn't know you, you know, would read that and go, oh my gosh, if they don't have the time to debunk it, you know, they would think, oh, my gosh, you are just a crazy person, whatever that they said there, right?
And that is happening to you.
And in terms of monetary value to the cabal, you're a low-level target.
You're still high-profile enough that they came out in force, right?
You had a dedicated person, you know, Hugo, putting out a thousand videos.
But now imagine you're somebody like Trump, you know?
And the thing is, if we just go through the stuff that we debunked together, like that, you know, the woman whose face they were blurring out, remember?
We debunked it.
I'm 100% sure that was fake.
Her eye movements showed that she was lying and so on.
But we never went back and said, hang on, what's the system that put her in front of us?
Right.
It's an entire intelligence apparatus.
And that's the best thing they came up with.
And it was an obvious fraud.
So if Trump is that bad, why couldn't they trigger one of his genuine control files so far?
Because they tried during his first election.
They tried in 2020.
They tried a third time.
And every single time they tried the what, the peeing Russian hookers in a hotel.
That was bullshit.
They tried the Russia gate.
That was utter bullshit.
They tried this whole pedophile angle.
They tried the what, 48 women who came forward.
And then when you look at the dates, one batch of them came forward just before Super Tuesday and a second batch three weeks before the election.
Right.
So that's bullshit as well.
They tried Egene Carroll and E. Jean Carroll is quite documentedly mental herself, according to her own L interview, right?
So they tried all that and we debunked it.
And you have to look back and think, that was the best shots they had.
And they were all crap.
So at what point are we going to say we have analyzed and tested and double checked Trump to the nth degree?
We never double checked Obama to this extent.
We only found out, or most people only found out, his wife is a dick after he was already out of office, right?
His birth certificate, some people talked about it, but it wasn't like big in the news like Trump is in the news, right?
So if we look at all the presidents in our living memory, nobody has been vetted as tightly as Trump.
Yes.
Nobody.
So, you know, by now, I'm taking faith in the guy from number one, my gut feeling when I just look at the guy and when I look at his wife, because she knows him so much better than we will ever do.
I totally trust Melania.
From her body language, from her attitude, from her standards, I recognize the person she is.
She's like a high-class type from Eastern Europe that I know very well.
Very classy person.
She is not in the same category as the bimbos, right?
The sugar girl bimbos.
She would not stand for this shit.
So I trust her.
I trust Trump.
And I personally debunked several of these of these defamatory programs against it.
And Bill personally debunked Russia Gate with scientific evidence.
So by now, if there's any one person I'm happy to trust, it's Trump, basically.
Now, Kash Patel is a different story.
Pam Bondi is a different story.
Susie Wells, Dan Scavino, different story.
But Trump, Melania, and his family, I think they're fine, you know.
And also remember, they will make mistakes because the military and the intelligence agencies have put a huge wall around them, like a security perimeter where only Intel assets can ever get to Trump.
So he will be fed bullshit.
The daily briefings to the president are probably laden with weapons-grade bullshit, you know, and he can only make decisions based on what he's given.
So there's bound to be mistakes.
But are they his mistakes or is it really the system that we're fighting?
Catherine, there is so much genius on display today.
Catherine's Genius revelations 00:02:00
I got to tell you, I'm just blown away.
I love it.
I love it.
You got to do the book.
You got to do the book.
Gosh, my head won't fit through the door.
You know, if you give me so many compliments, it won't go.
I mean every word, every single fucking word.
Wow.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I shall sit there.
You've got to do this.
Yeah, I shall do it.
And, you know, one idea I had, instead of writing a book that nobody will read, an other idea would be to have chapters that would really be little memos to the Trump administration that I would publish.
So something like 10 or 12 memos about the different aspects.
Yes, yes, I'd publish every one of them.
That would be awesome.
I shall do that.
Yeah, this has been sensational and I'm exhilarated.
And you have given me so much to think about.
And your defense of Trump is very persuasive.
Yeah.
You know, have faith.
It's not as bad as it looks because there's nothing worse than losing hope.
And I don't think you should lose hope.
Look what the guy achieved, the money coming in through tariffs, the peace deals he already made, right?
And okay, Israel and Gaza is a really, I mean, that is going right into the bowel of the beast.
It's the Rothschild fiefdom.
Very few people survive fucking with that one, right?
But otherwise, you know, closing the border, getting actual violent criminal illegals out, you know, hey, we were desperate for this stuff.
Unmasking the mainstream media, releasing the Epstein files, you know, going against the brother of the king of England.
I mean, going against most of Hollywood.
George Clooney, have you had, you know, heard about that?
George Clooney is going down.
Half of Hollywood is going down.
All these rappers.
It's great stuff.
You know, buy more popcorn and relax a bit.
Thanking Catherine, Looking Forward 00:00:35
That's my message.
Catherine, this has been fabulous, fabulous.
And you can build my best regards coping with all this and get busy cranking out those memos.
I shall.
Thank you.
This has been another real deal report with Catherine Horton and Bill Binney under fire.
A particularly exhilarating experience.
I cannot thank my guest enough.
Stand by for more coming to you in the future.
Not too distant, let us hope.
Export Selection