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Dec. 5, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:01:58
REAL DEAL SPECIAL (4 December 2025): Katherine Horton & Bill Binney UNDER FIRE!
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Welcome to another Real Deal special, which is an ongoing series of conversation with Catherine Horton Bill Binney under fire.
I've had a couple of really sensational interviews with Bill lately, and I'm very delighted to have Catherine here all to myself tonight.
Catherine, it's just a joy to see you again.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, Jim.
And Bill is sending his apologies.
He's in pain tonight, so he can't do it.
But he really enjoyed the interviews, I have to say.
I don't know how you guys do it because you're under such torment.
I mean, it's well, we're hoping, I'm still hoping to get through to the Trump administration.
I have this feeling that we're on the cusp of it.
What's really reassuring is that they're talking about shutting down the drug distribution, and they might have not gone about it the most effective way.
You know, they haven't arrested anybody on the U.S. mainland.
They focus on playing whack-a-mole with a bunch of boats somewhere.
But at least it's the first attempt I'm aware of in decades, first serious attempt.
So if you start shutting down the drug trade and shutting down the deep state operations in general, like child trafficking, eventually you'll have to turn to the targeted individuals program.
So I'm still, you know, I'm the ultimate pro-Trump optimist here.
The problem I've had with the boats is there'd been no verification.
They were carrying any drugs, you know, blowing them in international water, violation, international law, murder, war crime.
I'm very troubled by all this.
How do you say that?
Well, you know what?
I have been mouthing off about the international law element of it and especially that it's unverified.
Usually with the illegals that they have arrested and deported, no matter how haphazard to, you know, off to wherever, right?
El Salvador, there was still an entire CV or resume attached to every single person they deported.
They said, oh, look, this guy raped so many people, killed so many people, did this, this, this, and this, came into the country this year.
And when it was about the drove, the, you know, the boat hits with missiles, it was silence.
They didn't even tell us how many were there.
In fact, there was one release of really, I kid you not, a bus boat with what looked like three or four engines at the back, but no significant amount of fuel.
It looked like the boat was empty and they claimed there were four narco-terrorists.
Well, where are those people?
Because I can only see trash bags in this empty boat.
And when I pointed it out, and also more than that, the boat was clearly stationary.
It was an open boat bobbing up and down in the waves, stationary, no propulsion, no wake behind it, nothing.
And they shot it.
Is that CGI?
Is that a real boat?
Is that somebody's bus boat?
And then when I pointed it out and I replied to the ad SecWar, so ad Secretary of War, True Social account, my true social account got banned for three days until I threatened them to take them to court over it.
So they didn't like the fact that I pointed it out.
So personally, I am convinced that Pete Heckseth, even if he has good intentions, genuine intentions, is far too inexperienced, not in general, but with the deep state operations of the military.
So he has no comprehension how ruthlessly they will lead him up the primrose path.
And Trump has some very good understanding of what they're capable of, but even he is just too trusting.
When you're dealing with the military and the intelligence agencies, you are dealing with the deep state.
They have to verify everything.
They can't just provide low resolutions, VHS tape quality videos to us and just say, hey, just take a dun trust.
So you and I agree that what's going on there is wrong, that they shouldn't be blowing their heads.
They should be stopping them, investigating, due process, find out what they're...
I think they may be fishermen.
They may be just having a joy.
Who the hell knows?
They've killed 80 people, Catherine.
80.
Well, so they claim.
Here's the thing.
I mean, I'm saying we have to verify everything.
Number one, why is the footage such low resolution?
These are not high-tech boats.
It's not like they have drone detection capabilities, even though if they did, get closer, give me a close-up shot.
The BBC can, you know, photograph the ass of a gazelle from five miles away, and you can't give us a high-resolution image.
Is that what the American taxpayer paid for with Boeing and Lockheed Martin?
So that's bullshit number one.
Bullshit number two is among the few videos that you showed us, the bass boat didn't carry enough fuel to cross anything and they claimed it was in the East Pacific.
That was bullshit.
It was stationary and it was empty.
There were no four narco-terrorists.
So you lied about that.
Now, what was interesting is that before this bass boat, they were claiming it was speedboats and they were always blurring out the deck of the speedboat.
So at that point, I said, how can you, and I said it publicly, how can we be sure that these people are not also trafficking children in the hold or on the deck?
When I said that, they published the deck for the first time and it turned out to be empty.
They shot an empty boat.
And when I took the utter piss out of it, they blocked my true social account.
So what I'm taking away from this is that the reason why nobody started crying about the international law implications of this is because it was a psyop all along.
It was a psyop.
I don't believe a bleeding word that the military said about these missile hits.
And when they did seem to shoot something, it was an empty boat.
Could have been, you know, somebody's backyard pond, as much as we know.
You know, could have been Lake Michigan.
How the heck do we know where these things are and what they are?
Who is on deck?
You know, where are the obituaries?
You know, Jim, you know about these false flag operations where there's no obituaries afterwards.
Why are the obituaries?
You know, we are the crying mothers of these drug dealers, you know, being sad that their son got, you know, shot to bits somewhere in the Gulf of America.
Why are these people?
Who are they?
We were not told anything.
It's a scam.
So I think the reason it doesn't violate international law is because nobody died in the making of these hoax videos.
That's what I think until I'm presented with evidence to the contrary.
You do agree, of course, that if it were real, if there really were these 80 people who've been blown to smithereens, including the double tap, right?
Remember, they had the latest two survivors hanging on and they came back to wipe them out.
I mean, you're under obligation to save survivors of a hit like that.
Well, my question is, if you're under obligation, if you're under obligation to save the people you intend to kill, why do you kill them to Start with.
I mean, the whole thing is such a bullshit operation from start till end because also, if so, they okay, first of all, international law, you haven't provided any proof who these people are.
You have named these people.
You are violating international law because, as a sovereign, supposedly sovereign nation, you're going out into international waters and randomly killing people.
Well, with that, China could take out, I don't know, a cruise ship in international waters, anywhere in the Pacific, coming from the U.S.
They could claim anything.
They could literally claim anything.
So, international waters are safe because if we had these sort of laws and people could just kill anybody in international waters, it would be utter anarchy and mayhem.
So, that's why we have these international laws.
So, that's number one.
Now, they are claiming that under the laws of they have, and you know, somebody quoted them recently, they can take out terrorists in international waters.
But again, they haven't proven anything.
And now, the third point is if they are serious about it being for the drug trade and not just random swashbuckling, then why has not a single person related to the supply chain been arrested on the U.S. mainland?
Who would have received the supply of drugs?
Which, you know, which little marina would they have, you know, moored in and handed over the drugs to?
How would these drugs get to Kentucky, right?
Or Boise, Idaho?
Were they going to go by speedboat all the way to, you know, to South Dakota?
What is this bullshit?
So, the whole story doesn't make any sense at all.
And it's for this reason and because there was no outcry from the Guardian, all right?
Now, the drug trade is massively tied to British intelligence.
They are running it.
Not just the CIA.
The MI6 supervises the child trafficking and the drug trafficking, right?
So, why was there no outcry from the Guardian of the cartel, as I call this newspaper, that Trump was shooting people in international waters?
Otherwise, they whine about everything, but it was eerie silence.
And I think it's because MI6 knew it's a psyop.
It's bullshit.
Nobody died.
It's all made up.
It's CGI, you know, and they couldn't be bothered to whine.
And I think they gave the game away by just being so silent.
That's what I think.
Rather fascinating because it hasn't crossed my mind these could all be stage fake attacks on empty boats or whatever the F.
I mean, you know, it seemed to me it was bullshit in the sense they weren't running any drugs, that they were just hitting innocent civilians and killing them willy-nilly.
And they got up to 80 of them in the double tap.
And it was an outrageous violation of international law.
And there was no way fentanyl isn't coming from Venezuela.
It's coming from Mexico.
And there's no way they were going to be transporting these little boats, drugs up to the United States.
It was all ridiculous on its face.
I grant you all of that.
I thought they were just doing it as a stunt to justify what's supposed to be a land attack on Venezuela, which would be a disaster if it were to happen.
Maduro's got 4 million to 8 million militia members, Catherine.
And he's got the Russian anti-ship missiles and he's got the S-400.
I mean, it's going to be a catastrophe if the U.S. were to attack.
So I thought this was really stupid from beginning to end.
But you're suggesting it even more than that, that it's a pure psyop.
It's, I mean, the whole thing is just an idiotic mess.
You know, I don't know what the inside of the White House is planning to do.
But here's the, here's, here's what I'm okay.
I look when the military says anything, they would be morons if they ever said the truth because they would give away their operational details, blah, blah, blah, blah, classified blah, blah, blah, ongoing military operations, blah, blah.
So as soon as the military says anything, I assume it's 100% pure undiluted bullshit.
If they want us to believe any of that, they would have to come up with exact location, exact ship.
Why can't they see ships and research it?
Never see people, never see anything.
It's like a nothing, nothing.
If they were so keen on exposing drug traffickers directly tied to Maduro, they could name some names.
Nothing.
Nothing.
So what is this bullshit?
So whatever they do, we agree it's bullshit.
The question is just how much is it?
You know, is it completely bullshit?
So what is this?
Because nobody has been killed in any of these hits, right?
And that's just insane to me.
It could be.
So the whole thing could be made up, and they do do that.
It could also be partially real that they didn't kill the people they said they would.
Another option, and that's the problem.
All of this is on the table.
Another option, given that the military is a satanic child trafficking operation, also, it's very easy for them to tell President Trump and naive Pete Hegseth, who was never in a serious senior role to really know the inside ins and outs of this.
They could also claim, oh, look, these guys were trafficking drugs, fentanyl, really bad.
We have to kill them.
And just for the shits and giggles, the military would drone a ship that's also carrying children.
Why?
Because they get off on murdering children.
It would be a very fun, fun, satanic sacrifice of children just to spite these people.
So even that is possible with the military.
That's the problem when we have absolutely no information and we cannot check anything.
The full satanic breadth of degeneracy is on the table and we don't know where we stand.
That's the real issue.
Now, Trump is the president, but if they have an incentive to lie to anybody, it's the guy they try to kill repeatedly, right?
So why would they ever say the truth to Trump or to Pete Hegseth?
They have such incentives to lie to their own leadership, unless their leadership are imbued deep state agents.
And Trump doesn't have the technical know-how to even run analysis on footage that he's given and tell what's CGI bullshit and what's genuinely an output from, I don't know, a Lockheed Martin drone.
Does he have the technical skill?
Does he know anybody who has the technical skills?
Fuck no.
So, you know, what's he going to do?
He has to take it on trust.
And his biggest ally in all this is the American people who are 320 million people.
And among all those veterans might be somebody or might be an IT professional who could help him.
There might be veterans who could say, no, that's not the drone software we're familiar with.
The whole thing is just made up on somebody's laptop.
So this is why Trump has to understand his only safe strategy he has is to make everything public.
But then don't bullshit us.
Don't give us bargaining chips that you really try to use in a deal with Maduro and present it to us that you're trying to shut down the drug trade just to get us our approval.
Because this shit ain't going to put a dent into the drug trade.
That stuff's coming in with container chip ships.
But I don't think it has anything to do with the drug trade.
It has to do with Venezuelan support for the Palestinians, Catherine.
I think this is oil and oils.
Yeah.
It's like hitting Iraq.
Iraq was supporting the Palestinians.
Iraq wasn't a threat to the U.S. Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction.
Venezuela is no threat to the United States.
Venezuela doesn't have chemical weapons of mass destruction.
No, I mean, all this bullshit.
Now, Trump is saying each of these boats he takes out is worth 25,000 American lives.
He's claiming he saved a half a million American lives, Catherine.
I mean, it's just it's awful.
It's just so here's the thing.
The one thing you have to understand about Trump, and I will go out, I will support him to the end, but because we have to also factor in his day-to-day, okay?
He is just a human being with 24 hours.
His real heavy lifting were the international trade deals, the international peace deals.
It's the economy and all that, right?
And inflation.
And he's delivered on all of that in 10 months.
And we just take it for granted.
We didn't have that for decades.
And we're like, yeah, whatever.
But now what about this?
Now, with this shit, he's reliant on Pete Hegseth.
And Pete Hegseth is out of his depth, given that this is not a normal military that will respond to a Secretary of War.
This is a deep state operation that will kill to continue child trafficking and drug trafficking.
That's the real problem.
So everything that's put on Trump's desk goes to Pete Hegseth, and he doesn't have the analytical skills to debunk this bullshit.
And he wants to report good news.
And then Trump, by the time he gets this, he has to spin it the best way possible and use it as a bargaining chip in a deal with Venezuela.
So that's what he's doing.
He's being literally served up a steaming pile of horse manure and he has to turn it into something amazing.
What does he want from Venezuela?
Oil.
I think cheap faster by Gaza, yes, but they don't care.
You know, what they first and foremost want, and Trump said so, is to stock up the strategic oil reserves because Biden and that cabal around Biden depleted them to artificially push down the price of oil or gas at the petrol station to cover up how much they were actually fucking the country.
So instead of buying oil on the market, they were using the oil reserves that they already had, right, to prop up the American domestic market and keep prices down artificially.
But by that, they basically depleted the national security of the United States.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Well, Biden was that wasn't the real Biden.
We don't even know who the hell it was.
Whatever.
President Otto Penn, okay?
But here's the thing.
As far as I know, the Alaskan oil fields are not online yet.
Are they?
So they can drill for oil in Alaska.
Trump is probably right that they have the biggest ever oil reserves.
And if once they get them online, you know, America will be completely fuel self-sufficient again.
But are they online yet?
I have no idea.
Do they have the pipelines in place?
Were they not completely dismantled by the deep state to spite this project?
So until then, seriously, the best deal is to do a deal with Venezuela.
And probably at the moment, he can't because Maduro is a deep state motherfucker.
So Catherine Camp, we got multiple reports that Maduro has said he's willing to open Venezuela to American Oil Company.
He's willing to give him a fantastic deal, discount, all this stuff.
He's already said to say it, and Trump won't take yes for an answer.
Perhaps he wants a better deal.
Perhaps he wants this guy gone and he wants not just the deal.
He wants Venezuela to give a damn if he gets the oil.
I mean, this U.S. intervention in other nations and just dumping their leaders because we don't like him is for shit.
The world doesn't like it.
None of us who care about America like it.
It's gross.
And it's been our history since 1953 when we dumped Mossadegh in Iran and began this merry go round of replacing governments right and left, assassinations, coups, you name it.
We've done it.
It's gross.
I agree.
Look, I mean, here's the thing.
You asked me about the Venezuelan stuff.
I think it's about oil.
Yes, I do think it's about regime change.
Unfortunately, because I'm not an expert on the country, I do not personally know who the goods and the bad guys are.
But I do know that the people around Maduro have been trying to scare him.
I ran the one analysis I did about Venezuela was that drone attack on Maduro.
Do you remember the drone attack?
So he was up on a stage and a drone literally exploded above the crowd right in his face.
It didn't harm him, but it made a big old boom and scared everybody shitless.
Well, the one thing I did spot is that on that stage, one of the guys who was involved in the drone attack was standing, I think, two people behind Maduro, because as soon as it goes kaboom, all the people in military uniform who are used to things going kaboom around them are startled and are just looking up.
And this guy turns around, as soon as the boom goes, he turns around to the guy next to him and goes, yep, okay, and goes, skadouche.
These people were the insiders.
They were waiting for this thing to blow up.
And then the operation just unfolded, whatever they were involved in.
So I looked at the footage and I'm like, well, that guy is an intel operative who knew this drone is going to, you know, blow up.
He wasn't surprised.
That was the start of his part of the operation.
So there's some deep state network trying all sorts of things around Maduro.
And the whole operation smelled like MI6 and CIA from just the way it unfolded.
It was just like the Trump assassination attempt, also where there were insiders literally immediately behind the person being targeted.
And that is literally all I know about Venezuela.
So I have no idea who the good guys are, who the bad guys are, and who the worse bad guys are.
And we just have to take it on trust this time that Trump hopefully is smarter than his handlers and gatekeepers around him and that he will come up with a deal that is good for the country and ideally also great for the people of Venezuela.
If he could pull something off and put somebody in there who is great, like the Argentinian president was a good call.
What's wrong with Maduro, for God's sake, Catherine?
I don't see anything wrong with Maduro.
He appears to be widely admired by his fellow citizens.
They elected him.
I don't know if Dominion machines were involved there, but I don't see anything wrong with, and I don't see that we have the right to insist on that.
I don't like it.
That sucks.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
As a default, I agree with no foreign entanglements and so on and so on.
I think Trump is probably using the fact that he is making a deal to just, you know, keep saying no until he gets the best deal ever.
But here's the thing.
When you say the people love him, my question as a former communist refugee is, well, did they elect him like we elected Nikolai Ceausescu, who always got 99.8% of the vote?
All right.
Our dictator, Nikolai Ceausescu, on paper, we all freaking loved him.
So I have no idea.
I genuinely don't know enough about Venezuela.
The one thing I know for sure is that these missile things stink to the high heavens.
And the other thing that is, I think, important for the American people now, not for the people of Venezuela, is that if Trump is claiming that he's making a real dent in the drug trafficking, the FBI is lying to him.
There has not been any corresponding mass raids on the U.S. mainland.
Where are they?
I expect everybody involved with the reception of these drugs that come in by boats to be arrested by now.
NSA would have the full network.
Where are those mass arrests?
And when Trump said so and so many people would have been killed with the fentanyl, no, unfortunately not, because if so many people would get killed by this, this gets mixed in with other drugs, by the way, and most of the time doesn't kill.
But if these people would have been killed, then the drug trade would dry up by next Wednesday because everybody would be dead.
So that's wrong as well.
And the most outrageous thing is when he said that with these missile strikes, they stopped the drugs coming in by sea.
Are you fucking kidding me?
The drug supply comes in by container ships.
End of story.
One container outdoes 100 speedboats.
So one container coming in and not being picked up by, and customs and border protection, they do not search containers in container ships.
They don't have time.
All the Timu orders, all the Amazon orders, all the Walmart stuff, it all is jumbled in together.
And worse than that, I think big pharma companies are majorly involved in the drug trade.
So a container labeled Bayer or Johnson and Johnson or whatever the hell can easily contain the biggest supply of fentanyl and customs and border protection doesn't know where to look.
Why?
Because they are not using Bill Benny's Finn Threat program.
If they did, they could pick it up.
That's what I think.
Sorry, I ranted on this because it's here's the thing.
If I think we should take, you know what, we should grab P-Texeth and we should grab that little weasel Kash Patel, that little Masonic deep state bastard and say, oh yeah, you want to stop the drug trade?
Freaking great.
Do this, this, this in the NSA databases, but then like stop the drug trade to the city of New York by next Wednesday.
Arrest them all.
And then we do Chicago next week and then LA.
And then if you're serious, then you have to use the NSA databases and get them all.
The American taxpayers already paid for the technology several times over.
Use it and then do stop the drug trade.
But that means that very quickly, somebody living in New York should experience people around him or her going into withdrawal the week after because they can't get the drugs.
They can't get their fix.
Another effect that should be visible if this were true is that there would be the most mind-blowing gangland warfare kicking off.
There should be shootouts between competing drug gangs because if the supply goes down, the street value goes up.
So people would be shooting each other for multi-million dollar deals every week.
Where's that?
Where's the gangland warfare that should go with this?
It's silence.
Total silence.
Totally peacefully, the drug trade is going on just as before.
And all that happened, I think, is the military put on a bunch of psyops.
And the fact that The Guardian and The Independent and the Daily Mail and the Telegraph didn't get their knickers in a twist shows us that MI6 knows this is bullshit.
You know, the clue is the silence.
The clue is the lack of a gunshot sound.
All right.
That's what I think.
The mystery of the dog that didn't bark in the middle of the night, if you like.
Right, right, right.
Right?
Because think about it.
If this were real, who would we expect to just be screaming like a banshee?
Right?
All the liberal media would be going on about just unlawful drone strikes, blah, blah, blah.
They started a little bit, but it's too little, too late.
They realize they have to run an ass covering up exercise.
But I would also expect British newspapers to be leading the charge and they didn't.
And I was like, oh dear, whoever's running MI6 right now is a real moron because they missed the trick.
If they want us to believe this, they have to do all the things they would do if this were real.
So really, actually, now that you made me think about it, I just realized the only safe conclusion I can draw from this is that the new chief of MI6 is an idiot and is not to the job.
He can't run a psyop like the old guys could.
So, you know, they probably need Sir John Scarlett back, who could really lie like a real bastard during the Iraq war, you know.
I'm fascinated by every word.
No, really, because here's the way I sometimes analyze victim cases: is once you know how the intelligence agencies operate, you can look for their standard operating procedure in a systematic way.
For example, this is how I found the smoking gun clue in the Butler case by looking for the Intel minions.
Remember the people who ducked too early in the bleachers behind Trump, the center bleachers.
After I totally despaired about, you know, looking for clues for 12 hours and not finding anything concrete, it what, 6 a.m. in the morning, I thought, fuck it, let's just look for minions who are too stupid and we'll give the game away.
And I started looking at the crowd, looking for any discrepancies at all.
And boom, they were right there in the first video I looked at.
You know, people ducked too early.
They clearly knew that their shots were being fired.
So if you want to investigate.
Are you telling me you've now concluded that Butler was a stage event?
No, The opposite.
The fact that I found people in the center bleachers behind Trump, in the Butler footage, I think it was the Wall Street Journal that posted that.
That was for me smoking gun evidence that it was very real.
It was real.
These were live rounds being fired.
And the two Intel plants in the center bleachers were so shit scared, they ducked a bit too early.
They were scared of being shot by, you know, stray bullets.
And the fact, and the other thing is, when these guys, the insiders, are shit scared to be shot by stray bullets, it means that they are not using professionals and they know it.
Because, hey, if they had hired a trusted, you know, CIA hitman, a proper sharpshooter who can hit somebody 130 yards, then why would they be so shit scared in the bleachers like 20 feet away?
Why would you be scared to be shot if you know it's a professional?
So that meant to me that number one, they knew shots would be fired.
And number two, they knew it was not a professional guy.
And it was clear why it couldn't be a professional guy at all.
It's because any professional in the business knows that if he tries to shoot the president, they will kill him like the Patsy that he is afterwards.
Right.
So anybody who is professional is very good at their job.
They know how the business works.
And they know if you shoot the president, you will get killed.
So that about other people's involves they're gonna come and shoot you to make it look real and to keep you from talking correct, that's right.
So, yeah, so the only shooter, even for a staged event, so in your version and in my version, if you have any shooter, real or staged event, he would have to be a complete idiot.
By definition, you will not find anybody professional because any professional will look at you and are you serious?
You know, so there you go, boom, with a bit of logic, right?
You're the expert.
We figured out that, yes, it had to be a complete idiot.
So, you know, we also have proof that whoever was on the roof could not have been Thomas Crookes because they had to delete all the DNA evidence.
They had to wash down the roof.
They had to bleach the Crooks home.
All the reports said it was as clean as a hospital.
And they had to cremate the body to get rid of any and all DNA evidence.
And they did all three.
So that is direct proof that the body on the roof was not Thomas Crookes.
Couldn't have been.
If the body is real, you don't have to do any of this.
If the body is fake, you have to do all three.
They did all three.
So the body was fake.
End of story.
So we know the body on the roof was not Thomas Crookes.
And the body on the roof was not a professional sniper.
And remember when John Carmen said, the former Secret Service guy, he said on the Monday after the shooting that he already had inside information that the name of the real shooter was Maxwell Yurick.
That's why I believed him immediately when he said that.
He said, yeah, the guy, the real shooter was a guy different from Thomas Crookes, called something, Maxwell Yurick, whatever.
But he was not a sniper.
He was a CIA bull.
And as soon as he said that, I thought it's perfectly the puzzle piece he gave us.
Now, if the name is correct, I have no idea, but as good as any other, right?
Because the important stuff is the FBI lied and continues to lie.
And yes, he was a real shooter.
I'm convinced it was real bullets flying.
Because if it had been just staged, there's no reason to fuck it up so badly by giving the game away, by just ducking too early.
You would know it's just like whatever they use, detergent and beeswax, whatever they use on those fake bullets, right?
Or if they just use something that goes pop, making the right sound.
If the microphone, for example, that's another way.
If the intel agency staged something, you can even have the microphones playing, like, you know, picking up a wrong sound.
You can in transit fake gunshots flying past the microphone.
Even that can be staged.
Trump was hit in the ear.
Do you believe that?
I 100% believe that he was physically harmed.
Yes, I do.
Also, the way that the track, the blood track was running down, you know, he was leaning forward.
So if your ear is bleeding and you're on the ground, you would exactly see the kind of half vertical line that he had on the face.
That looked legit.
I don't think you can get a blood pack to just bleed all over you so perfectly, you know.
And also for me, ultimately, the strongest evidence was that he nearly burst into tears walking down the hallway, the hallway into the arena of the RNC.
There he had a camera on his face.
And as he was walking, the crowd cheering touched him emotionally so deeply, he was really moved to tears.
And that is the only time and probably the last time the world will ever see him be moved to tears.
He was like, holy shit, I nearly died.
And here's the country cheering me on.
You know, his whole family was there.
It was such an emotional moment that even Trump, who's otherwise, you know, the master negotiator, even he showed such a deep emotion.
It only lasted for a few seconds.
By the time he emerged.
Under the headlights.
He had already, you know, regained composure.
But when you're on the verge of crying from grief or emotion, extreme emotion, there's like two, there's like it's called, I think, the horseshoe muscle and it you can see it.
And if you study micro expressions, grief is a telltale, like genuine grief from fake ass crying like Erica Kirk.
Real grief has this like horseshoe muscle suddenly show up and if you're reading micro expressions, that's the way to really tell.
It's very hard to fake and and Trump had that.
And that's why I thought wow, the guy is really on the verge of of uh, you know, of clearing up here.
I look, I can, I can find the footage.
Next time I find it and i'll show it to you if you know what to look for with smoking gun evidence, no alternative explanation.
You think that he was just.
No no, I mean look, Trump doesn't cry, he doesn't cry, he's like Worked.
I would cry, just having to last for a day.
Like you know, he never cries, he doesn't cry he, he cried when it was so overwhelming.
And also he is.
You say okay, he was an actor.
Yes okay he, he did some acting, he did the the apprentice, but he's not Hollywood great, and the thing is the Hollywood people have to really train themselves to to be able to like duplicate micro expressions.
It's like it's like advanced level training that I think only a spy would have.
He's not that level of actor.
Do you see what I mean?
It was like a genuine micro expression, and micro expressions are great for telling deception and telling truth, because they are so hard to fake.
First of all, most people don't know about them, the real clues.
You have to be professor Ekman himself to be, you know, to know about this, or be professionally trained by him.
And and um, you know, it's also physically hard to fake.
And, by the way, this is why I think Eric's grief looks so weird to us all, because it's missing the usual signs that we would expect instinctively.
Do you know what I mean?
If it were genuine, yeah.
If it were genuine, which?
Yeah.
So what's your take on the Charlie Kirk again?
I mean, I think we begin.
Here's the thing.
What what for me personally, is 100 true is, as you pointed out, the footage that we have been shown of him being shot is Cgi manipulated.
The wound moves around, the blood flows wrong blah blah, blah all the stuff we discussed.
You are 100% right.
That is fake.
Now, did they notice this and I just confirmed it?
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, but he's right.
He's right.
I mean, you confirmed it, and we all agreed that one's fake.
Now, here's the thing: was there real shooting and they just faked the because this comes from one camera, that particular shot?
I've never seen another angle.
You know, why is the footage that comes out so redacted, so limited, you know, so censored?
And then, of course, you definitely saw the mainstream media show us fake footage where there's nobody on the stage and they are all running away.
So, there is a practice run.
The one thing I genuinely to this day do not know is: was the whole thing fake, or was there a real murder embedded in everything else being purposefully fake?
I have no idea.
The one thing, look, I think I think Charlie Kerr could have been recruited at university and could be an intel agent.
He could have been in on this all along.
He could still be out there very well paid, you know, as I said one of the times.
Oh, I'm convinced the whole thing was saved from beginning to end.
A to Z, the whole bloody thing at Utah University.
Yeah, I am, I am completely ready to accept that totally.
But then, the one thing, on the other hand, then there's another unethical element in this.
I mean, even beyond the fact of lying to the American people, it's that his mother's and his father's grief at as I've seen it at the White House was so genuine.
I mean, unless both his mom and dad are amazing actors, you know, wow, is this?
I mean, is he still alive and he just doesn't?
I think they were just uninformed, they weren't let in on this.
Could be, could be.
The one thing I heard again, 9/11 and the terrorists, I've never really looked into it beyond, you know, beyond knowing that 9-11 is fake and the intelligencies did it and mossad.
Like, who cares?
Whatever, right?
I never investigated 9-11 into the terrorists and who were they really, whatever.
So, but the only thing I heard on the grapevine, or I think it was even in the British press years ago, is that Mohamed Atta is alive and well and called his mom on the phone years later from Saudi Arabia, if I'm not mistaken.
Oh, he called his father the following day.
Oh, I did not know.
I didn't know he called his father.
I had no idea.
His parents separated, but all four of the crash sites were fake, Cancer.
Absolutely.
No 9-11 plane crashed on 9-11.
It was each one fake.
I even had Albert Stubblebein, who is the head of Signals Intel for U.S. military.
We did a show on it.
I showed him all my evidence.
You know, he agreed.
He gave me more reasons.
I was right that all four of the crash sites were fake.
All four of them.
Yeah.
By the way, I somehow have this weird feeling that General Stubblebein was kind of assassinated or kind of, you know, with a bioweapon.
Surprised me in the least.
Maybe even because of our interview.
Yeah.
You know, I just saw his wife, Dr. Rima Lybov, publish a short clip from the hospital.
He was so emaciated.
I think they have an emaciation bioweapon because several people died that way.
Somebody from my acquaintance.
Rapidly aged, in other words.
Huh?
Sorry?
Rapidly aged.
He age like he became 100 years old, even though he was only 79 or whatever.
Yeah, yeah.
And he was incredibly emaciated.
So, if I had to make a random guess, it is something, some sort of virus or bioweapon that really destroys the metabolism of the body.
So, cells can't process food or nutrients or something along those lines.
Because people ending up, and didn't they, I don't think he had cancer or any such thing.
His wife said, Oh, he was fine, he just needed some vitamins.
And I thought, hey, from the footage, he didn't look like that.
He looked like a skeleton.
And there are three people who look like a skeleton before dying with no other plausible explanation.
One of them is a relative of mine, or like an acquaintance of a relative.
Um, the second person is a double binder, and the third one is a guy called Tori Smith, who will be talking about child tracking that he claims that Mike Pence was involved in.
He claimed that Mike Pence is gay and is raping young boys, and his wife is a psychopath who just enjoys it and goes along with it and doesn't care.
Now, Tori Smith got some sort of emaciation bug and then died.
And that reminded me of General Stubblebein in this other case.
So, I, you know, it's it was so identical in each case, each case related to the deep state that I think that's what happened.
But I agree with you on 9/11, and it could all be staged.
And the thing is, all of these people could be just intel agents, and their parents are just not in on it.
By the way, I was kind of shocked when the first time I said to my wife there were rumors Mike Pence was gay, and to her was old hat.
It was obvious to her.
I think women can see these things more clearly than men because she wasn't at all surprised.
She was really telling me, you know, kind of a oh, yeah, what else is new, Jim?
You know, tell me something I don't already know.
Yeah, I'm not surprised because I just haven't seen enough of Mike Pence.
I've only seen still images of him because I was in Europe while he was still anybody here in the US, you know.
So, um, yeah, but doesn't surprise me.
It's like it's like when people were surprised that Freddie Mercury was gay.
It's like, hey, his band is called Queen.
That was not a dead giveaway.
I know.
I ought.
See, I was, I was a gay band, but the other guys, they weren't, they weren't gay.
Freddie, of course, was my actually.
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
But yeah.
So here we are.
But the way to tell all this apart and what genuinely happened.
Oh, by the way, on the topic of fake, fake deaths or deaths being faked and the parents not being in on it, I think I might have mentioned it to you.
I'm convinced that Ashley Babbitt's death was faked to add drama to the January fallen head out from the beginning, Catherine, from the beginning that that was fake.
Yeah, but you said it wasn't even with a real bullet.
They had a blood bag that put her down there.
Totally fake.
Totally fake.
So, but I think it was you who spoke to the mom of Ashley Babbitt.
Was it you who told me that you spoke to the mother of Ashley Babbitt?
I don't think I did that, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I mean, that that was a totally fake event.
Oh, January 6th thing was just grotesque.
You had hundreds of FBI agents out there faking his protesters.
You had Ray Epps, who was a king provocateur.
You had all this other horse shit going on there.
They've only finally identified the bomber.
It was a city, it was a cop who was a female police.
I mean, the whole thing.
Today they arrested a man and they claimed that the female was a suspect, but she could prove it wasn't her because, as it just so happens, at the time they claimed she planted that bomb, she did a video recording of her playing with puppies at home or something like that.
And the timestamp of the video previously has been fake.
Well, look, the whole thing is fake.
But all I know is today they arrested a guy.
Now they claim it's a guy.
Now, the one thing that would kind of fit in with the usual MO of the intelligencies is if they can frame a woman, they will.
Because the Masons are an all-male society and women are disposable.
So I can believe that the female agent probably had nothing to do with it.
Either way, the FBI says they have to have a guy, whatever.
It was fake.
I agree on Cash, but it's pathetic.
He's a clown.
He's incompetent.
You know what?
I wish he were incompetent.
But tie his shoelaces.
I mean, that's embarrassing.
You know what?
I wish he were just incompetent.
I think he's actively a deep state agent.
And I tied that to his emphasis on 33 hours to be precise.
The CUN Valhalla comment, the fact that he made these like emphatic tongue-in-cheek gestures when he said to my friend Charlie Kirk.
Yeah.
You know, the emphatic snorts in one of his interviews.
He's making it just so obvious that he has disdain for the proper law enforcement process.
I mean, he's a lawyer.
I think he was a plant already in Trump's first administration.
What the hell is he doing in the position of the first place?
Yeah.
I agree.
I think what's wrong with Trump's process of picking people to get such complete incompetence or losers or frauds or deceivers or double agents or whatever the hell.
He has a terrible record.
Here's the thing, though.
Here's the thing.
When Trump is not president, he was running companies.
And I think you and I have to factor in the fact that there's only 24 hours per day, and you and I have the leisure to do any and all research we want to.
And that's what we do.
But Trump is not a truther.
He's not an investigator.
He's not a researcher.
He's a businessman.
And he delegates and he expects people to do it.
And if he has good people, it works.
And in private, he had good people and it worked.
Exactly.
But also, he picked, you know, it took him probably years to find good architects, good contractors.
And on the way there, he got screwed over every which way by the crooks.
So after decades of a construction career, he has a you know, a highly filtered, diluted, or not diluted, but concentrated team of like high performers.
And it would probably take him two or three administrations to do the same in the White House.
You know, you know, on 9/11, he was very good.
He said planes cannot have done this.
They couldn't have brought down some else had to be involved.
He even said bombs meaning some massive source of energy.
And he was, of course, completely right.
But there he was right off the bat.
You say, doesn't that give you confidence?
That did at the time, Catherine.
It did at the time.
But, you know, just stick with the guy because just here's the way I can trying to tell the wheat from the chaff.
Okay.
Look at who exactly was in charge of everything that went wrong.
Because I narrowed it down to the real ginormous cock-ups in the administration are all centered around the DOJ and the FBI and Hexes' military operation, right?
But in the military, Trump has more contacts who are really up to snuff, like that one general he promoted who told him the truth about Afghanistan and how to tidy up the stuff.
And he said, We are not allowed to fight these people.
If we were allowed, we could get it done in three weeks.
And they got it done in two or something like that.
It's, I forgot the general's name, but that's a good guy who told him the truth.
Now, in the FBI, he has nobody who tells him the truth.
Nobody.
The FBI hasn't hired an honest person in 50 years.
And Bongino is from the Secret Service and by his own statements, was never in, or only shortly in financial investigations.
But he's not really full-blooded investigative division.
Now, if you want to head the FBI, you should be versed in investigations, in forensics, like up and down, right?
But also, you have to be versed in deep state operations and the breathtaking, sadistic, satanic shit fuckery that the FBI engages in every weekday as their standard operating procedure.
And I think Bongino's only fault is that he's like Little Red Riding Hood about to get fucked by the big bad wolf.
He has no idea.
He's totally naive.
He takes the FBI's output on trust.
No, you have to take it, rip it up, and you know, in the beginning, do it yourself until you see who the right investigators are.
And that's the problem.
So I know how despondent you are about the Trump administration, but my analysis says Trump is doing amazingly well when it when it really goes downhill.
That's the DOJ.
Pam Bondi has got to go.
Compare Judge Janine right now in the DC investigation and Pam Bondi.
I had the feeling when Judge Janine rocked up, now they suddenly have the right suspect for the January 6th pipe bombing.
Suddenly stuff is going.
Suddenly I can listen to the press appearances without cringing.
I mean, Pam Bondi is like, I don't know, a student who hasn't done her homework.
It's painful to listen to this woman.
Judge Janine, in contrast, every time she comes on, I'm like, yeah, fuck yes.
Somebody's in charge and we are going somewhere.
Don't you think?
Yeah, well, I've not been following all of it as closely, but I love your report.
I think it's wonderful.
So for your own sanity, only watch, only watch the interviews with Judge Janine, and you will feel a million times better.
Seriously, she has this like, she has the fight it takes.
And the other thing is, she was a judge.
She understands the laws.
She understands how it's meant to be done.
And she also understands how to put on a case so that it sticks in court.
That's what you need.
Right?
I've watched her over the years again and again.
You know, I always had a positive feeling about her.
And I think to me, it's Trump sort of picking people in the public eye.
You know, it's like he selects his people from television.
That's how he decides to populate his cabinet.
If he's seen somebody on television, he likes them in the role.
He has them.
Remember, how else would he pick?
How else?
I think it's his way of doing due diligence because how else would he find anything out about these people?
If it's on TV, he has a TV, he can pull up any footage, and he is like, okay, I like this person, I like that, because he can follow his gut instinct.
But otherwise, on paper, the deep state will make anybody look amazing.
So with Kash Patel, he had the book.
I swear that book was ghostwritten and cash was a plant all along.
Sure, So that's what I think.
Now, the other thing is, Pam Bondi, oh, this is this is now getting into a hornet's nest.
I have heard or seen traces of people talking about this that Pam Bondi was recommended by Susie Wiles.
Now, I'm not sure if you can see that.
Susie is Israel first.
Trump said she's the most powerful woman in the world, and she no doubt she is.
And she's like, I don't know if she's strictly speaking most sod, but she sure as hell is Israeli.
I mean, that's all she cares about.
Here's the thing: I think Susie Wiles is not just dangerous to the American people.
I think Susie Wiles, I suspect, I don't have any evidence.
Somebody who knows the White House needs to get into this.
But whoever, whoever decided the schedule on October 17th to have Andrea Bocelli meet with Trump at the White House so that they could have time to say goodbye, blaring out the famous number one song by Andrea Bocelli, they had it blaring out in the Rose Garden.
And that was the day Trump was meant to get shot at Palm Beach International in Florida on his way back to Mar-a-Lago.
And I swear that whoever arranged that Andrea Bocelli was there that day is in with the assassins, is in with the deep state plot to kill Trump.
And I think it would be the chief of staff, no?
Isn't Susie Wiles the person or Dan Scavino who would be in charge of this?
Chief of staff.
Yeah.
She is chief of staff, Catherine.
He's chief of staff, and Dan Scavino is in charge of the White House.
Whoever the hell it's meeting with Trump, I think it's both of them, Dan Scavino and Susie Wiles, I think they were in on the plot to kill Trump.
I'm putting it out there for people who really want to protect Trump and have better means than me.
But it sure as hell looks like it's somebody of that sort of caliber who matches their description perfectly.
Okay, that's all I'm going to say for now.
Now, the thing is, the reason why this is relevant to Pam Bondi is I have heard people suggesting that Pam Bondi was recommended by Susie Wiles.
Yes.
So if that's the case, Trump has to remove Susie Wiles and Pam Bondi.
Yeah.
And also Kash Patel.
I would remove Kash Patel for being, as you say, an idiot, and as I say, for cartel signaling.
I would remove Pam Bondi for being freaking useless and having been recommended by Susie Wiles.
And I would remove Susie Wiles because of the Israel First Agenda.
And number two, because it surely looks like she was involved in getting Trump shot, right?
So I think when you are unhappy about the missile strikes, the question is, with Trump being so busy, how much is due to the shit mixing of Dan Scavino and Susie Wiles?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, sure, sure, sure, sure.
And if those people were removed, would we get the Trump back that we love, the guy who said immediately after 9-11, this can't be, you know, the way it really panned out?
Yeah, that's that was a big plus giant for me.
Yeah.
On the other hand, how can he support genocide?
How can we be enthusiastic about a president who's giving all the bombs and the weapons to slaughter the Palestinians, Catherine?
That makes me sick.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, I, I, yes.
And again, we get back to this thing we discussed the other time, the other day about given that the Israel lobby and all these people with double citizenships are populating the State Department and populating the CIA and everything.
Could he have survived doing anything else?
Right?
And is he trading the death of those Palestinians against the death that would have occurred with all those Russians and Ukrainians dying and all the people dying in Rwanda and Congo and all these other million seven or eight wars that he stopped?
Right?
Did he do a mathematical calculation and said, well, human rights is, you know, is genuinely equal.
I can't survive stopping the Gaza genocide, but I can sure as hell stop the murder of people and these other wars.
So, while I couldn't help the Gazan people, I'm going to stop seven or eight wars.
And then the total number of lives saved is actually larger than the Palestinians who died.
It's a ruthless calculation, but maybe that's what he did.
Because I don't think he would have survived not supporting Israel.
Not with the FBI being a deep state operation, not with the DOJ not protecting his life, and certainly not with the Secret Service blocking Bill Binney from showing them how to protect the president's life.
That's the truth.
With everybody being so fucking useless and stupid around Trump, he wouldn't have survived, I think.
Suspect.
What do you think?
Yes.
Well, you make a very powerful case, I gotta say.
You give me so much to think about, Catherine.
I'm not claiming to be right, but that's that's the one.
If I really try to be think like Trump, maybe he had to sit down one day and think, am I going to save my life, my family's life, and then try to make up for the Palestinians who will invariably die because of my actions by saving other lives elsewhere in the world?
Because right now, there's no other way to solve this conflict.
I've seen Leed look to me like an Israeli stoo.
I believe he converted to Judaism in 2017.
And he's been there and he's been all the deferential and he's kissed Bibi's ass.
I don't know.
I'm not real happy with the guy.
You make the strongest case of anyone on his behalf, it seems to me.
With a calculation, if he were a genuine, full-blooded stooge, why would he, just on a simple walk to his helicopter, had shown such frustration that he says to the press, the people in the region have been fighting each other for so long, they don't know anymore what the fuck they're doing.
Why would you ever make a comment like that?
You could just brush it off, you know, with his deal-making diplomacy.
He could have played the press.
About Gaza.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, the war between Israel, yes, and the Palestinians, right?
The whole Middle East situation.
And that was, that was such a famous quote by him.
I mean, he used the F-bomb, right, with the press, but he also looked genuinely fed up.
And when he said that, I thought that's the, he reached his limit.
That's how much he can support Israel and not further.
You know, a lot of speculation, we're not just dealing with one guy who's supposed to be Donald Trump.
Now, I knew for a long time he had a silver-haired body double that was for security, but there are others who think there's something deeper.
Well, I, you know, all the all the world leaders typically have a body doable for safety reasons.
I think there's Paul Craig Roberts always talks about Slim Putin and Podgy Putin appearing.
I have no idea, but then if it were a buddy doable arm and the boot who doesn't swing his arm, and there definitely is more than one, there's no question.
Yeah, and then, but then, would your buddy Doogal ever dare to make such an outrageous comment to the press?
Do you see what I mean?
So the more outrageous the comment, the more it's genuine Trump.
It's not a stand-in.
He makes a lot of outrageous comments.
Yeah.
So most of the time, it's, I think, him.
Catherine, you're wonderful, spectacular.
This has been sensational.
I love it.
I love every minute of it.
And you give Bill my very best.
I think you guys are just fabulous.
And I just can't.
I just have to keep watching it.
Keep analyzing and investigating.
Thank you, Jim.
Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
This is Jim Fetzer concluding another real deal special with Catherine Horton and Bill Benny under fire.
Another fabulous event.
Don't miss it.
It matters.
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