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Nov. 6, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
57:16
REAL DEAL SPECIAL (5 November 2025): Bill Binney & Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
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Well, welcome to another real deal special conversation with Catherine Horton and Bill Benny under fire.
Bill has been so much under fire.
He's in pain not joining us this evening.
Catherine, I'm so sorry you're having to endure all this torment and torture.
Yeah, it's um, I was just telling um um Jim before the show that today we met a good friend of ours who's also a whistleblower.
And every time we go everywhere, but um an occasion like that, it's very overt stalking.
So we were in a restaurant, and at the next table, there was somebody who clearly didn't belong there at all.
And they typically put their phone strategically with the microphone pointed at us, and you know, they want to record every word.
And after that, Bill, hypersensitive microphone, yeah.
Yeah, I think a null Apple i microphone is one of those tuned directional ones.
But anyway, so as soon as we left, Bill started being intent.
And so I got home trying to connect to this show here.
It kept telling me the link is defunct.
So I'm being hacked, and it's just the standard routine.
So, bottom line is: Doge might have a project, but they still have called Deep Sit that pays for all these gangstalkers, the remote control torture.
Oh, also on the drive there, I was shot in the face with directed energy weapons.
And this time, it felt very much like it's the car in front of me.
So, I really pulled up to be able to see the license plate.
It was a very special government license plate.
They even had the triangle-shaped folded U.S. flag in the back window.
Who the hell does that carry the ceremonial folded flag around in the back window?
They had a military uniform in the back package with signal military.
They're breaking you up, Catherine.
They're breaking up every other word.
Surprise, surprise.
They don't want us to have this conversation.
How bad is that?
Very special military vehicle, flag folded up in the back.
Yes, yes, yes.
I agree.
They're trying to be very blatant.
They're trying to rub it in your face.
As Catherine said, we're being hacked.
There's obvious interference here.
So I suspect she'll be back.
Whether we'll be able to complete a conversation or not, however, is a whole nother matter.
She's probably having to try half a dozen times.
Get on with me now.
And it may not work.
It may not work.
Hey, so as I was saying Yes, yes You're not hacking me Yes.
They took just now, they took down my entire internet connection.
Bill is on the phone in a room and said our entire internet connection was just knocked up and knocked out.
What was the last thing you heard?
Well, we were talking about the car, the special government, the flag pulled it up.
And I mean, they were rubbing it in your face.
They were making a lot of people.
Yeah, so, okay.
So, what I said after that, and this is really where the pain points are, I think, for the intelligence agencies, and you can tell because they go nuts with this hacking.
I was saying that I hope that Trump's finished making deals around the world and stopping other wars, and he's helping us stop the war against the intelligence agencies because the deep state is utterly insane at the moment.
They have a fleet of cars, and I mean with fleet, I mean hundreds of thousands of cars in all the U.S. states and all the cities that have directed energy weapons in them.
So, they can just burn you and brand you in the face like they did to me multiple times, or they can shoot you in the face in the head with a pulsed energy projectile and knock you out, make you crash your car, kill you instantly.
And these cars are roving around, fully deployed.
The targeted individuals are being targeted by them, so they notice these cars.
But, yes, they are being driven by the military and intelligence assets and minions, and some of them are really just dopes.
But they are, you know, authorized to harass you and shoot you, and you can be blinded by these weapons, burnt anything, anything you can do with a directed energy weapon.
And today's car was driven by this young black woman, and that's relevant because for anything that's dangerous or anything that involves potential retaliation on the road, the intelligence agencies use first and foremost women and especially black women.
Any sorts of hits, assassination attempts, they will use women because if it comes to a crash and the perpetrator dies, hey, it was just a woman, you know.
So, again, she was parading there with like this triangle-folded flag and a military uniform in the back window.
Nobody does that, but um, it's terrifying, it's really terrifying.
And Trump needs to help us with this.
He's been, you know, he has been so busy, but meanwhile, everything is going to hell.
And I think his advisors domestically are intelligence plants because the decisions they are making are so appalling.
Anything to do with trying to drain the war on drugs, you know, shooting empty vessels somewhere in some little paddling pool, it's not going to do anything, you know.
So, I'm just hoping that Trump is back home now and he can actually just focus on what's happening domestically.
But anyway, that's just an introduction.
That's just an we got a live demonstration when they just hacked my connection, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I was talking about it while you were seeking to get back on.
So, I mean, I think the Venezuelan thing has been called off.
I think they realize Maduro has all these anti-ship missiles, and anything we send down there can be sunk.
I think the first time they fired at Venezuela, all those ships were going to be taken out.
And I've been talking about for weeks, I don't know how the word finally might filter through to the commander-in-chief, but it was going to be a catastrophe.
I'm convinced, Catherine.
Yeah, also, you know, you can always write something on the White House contact form, and once you submit it, it becomes a public record.
You know, you should do that just to fix it in history that you, you know, I told you so.
Yeah, um, I have tried to reach out through the White House contact form twice now.
I never got a reply, and it was about important stuff.
Maybe one day the intel put a memo on Trump's desk because this shit about directed energy weapons is important.
Also, I genuinely think that I mean, I never know who's a plant and who isn't.
I think I told you before, after I've seen the shit show with the Charlie Kirk thing, whatever that was, um, and Kash Patel's trends of Bullshit that you put out.
I think Kash Patel is a deep state plant.
It's pretty obvious to me now, which means that I'm not going to recommend to any victim that they submit their cases to the FBI anytime soon, unless Kash Patel is removed and maybe Danjibo and Bongino moves one up.
I know you have your reservations about Bongino, but I need something concrete.
Otherwise, it's, you know, innocent until proven guilty.
But Kash Patel, oh my God.
So the FBI is stalling.
I think Pete Hex said is being, I don't think, or I don't know if he's a plant, but he's certainly being bullshitted by the military industrial complex.
The stuff that they were shooting in the supposedly the Gulf of America, but who the hell can tell?
You know, any body of water looks like any other.
It could have been Lake Erie as much as I know.
But what was telling is that all the footage was always extremely blurry.
And we're talking VHS tape from the 1990s, right?
Meanwhile, there's the BBC shooting Planet Earth, where they demonstrated that they have these special cameras attached to a helicopter, a vibrating helicopter that's stabilized and that can zoom in onto a gazelle's backside five miles away so that you can see every individual hair.
And they had to be this distance not to disturb the herd and you know, film them.
So if the BBC can show us high-quality footage like that, why are we getting this bullshit from the military contractors?
And I already said that is suspicious.
And when what was it, last Friday, when they showed us this bus boat and claimed four narco-terrorists were on it, where the F are the four narco-terrorists?
It's an open bus boat.
I don't see anything apart from Costco trash bags.
So I look at that and I have been mouthing off about that on True Social.
And it's kind of important because of what's going to follow.
Because they claimed that this boat had four narco-terrorists.
Well, there was nobody, that it transported drugs.
All I can see is trash bags.
And then it also said that it was heading somewhere.
And you can clearly see that thing is bobbing up and down with the waves.
It's stationary.
It didn't have enough fuel to cross Lake Erie widthwise, let alone lengthwise.
It's bullshit.
It was claimed to be in the East Pacific.
Are you kidding me?
So anyway, I took the utter piss out of this and I said, look, what you did is one of you guys had an old bass boat in his garage.
You just, you know, let it into the water somewhere over the horizon so nobody sees your shit show and you shot it.
Well, congratulations.
This is bullshit, right?
So as soon as we had a higher resolution color image, you could see it was nonsense.
Well, the next set of shootings were all you blurred out the entire thing that they shot.
So I thought, uh-huh, okay.
So you now realized that if you ever show us anything again, we will take the piss out of it because we can see it's nonsense.
But it also kind of gives me the impression that the previous vessels that they shot were just as fake as this goddamn bass boat.
They probably had some old vessels they dragged from some junkyard and then just shot them somewhere.
They probably all had leaks anyway.
You know, if they had given us high resolution images, we would have seen there is no captain commandeering those vessels, right?
So it's bullshit.
If one of these things is bullshit, so is the rest.
So now they come with this Venezuelan nonsense.
But the biggest, I mean, the two biggest complaints I have is: number one, if you sink this shit and you claim, oh, these are Venezuelan drug cartels and you sink it off the coast, well, who are they going to hand it over to?
Who is the supply chain on the mainland?
Because there you have direct jurisdiction and you can get the entire network.
Why did nobody do that?
Well, because if you put on the shit show, you can pretend you're doing something and you keep the actual distribution of the drugs, which I'm telling you is entirely run by the FBI, lovingly protected.
So that's the real reason.
And I don't know if Hexeth is that freaking stupid or in on it.
But if you just think about it for two seconds, you can see what the military did.
The military is big time involved in child trafficking and drug trafficking.
They do not want the war on drugs to succeed.
I think their pension funds might fold if that happens, right?
But we need to really, you know, drain the swamp on the mainland.
And that can be done very easily with Bill's program.
It can be done by hand.
You know, it's a huge supply chain that we're looking at.
Every town and village across the U.S. is being supplied Monday to Sunday, 365 days of the year.
We are looking at a supply chain that is the size of Walmart.
How can you miss it when you own the FBI, right?
And all this spying stuff.
So anyway, it's all bullshit that's coming out.
So now, you know, onto Venezuela.
I don't know what they were trying to do to use these, like the shooting of empty bus boats and, you know, half-scuttled vessels to initiate war against Venezuela.
Was that it?
Because it was a landmass attempt.
Yeah, it was a cover story.
Would it be about oil again?
Sure, of course.
Because they're anticipating a war with Iran, shutting down the straits of Ormuz.
We need an alternative.
This is all anticipatory.
Yeah.
Italy's attack directed by BB the butcher.
It's just, look, I think the country could understand many things, but we're just so freaking jaded being held for idiots.
After what happened in 9-11, JFK, the Trump assassination attempts, Charlie Kirk, we're done with bullshit.
Just give it to us straight.
Just give it to us straight.
Say the wells in Alaska are not online anymore and we're trying to get some oil and we are willing to kill people to get it.
Hey, wouldn't surprise anybody.
But to come up with this bullshit, it's just painful.
Because the problem is when they put on these shit shows, it's like crying wolf.
Okay.
The one time you actually want to do something genuine, nobody's going to freaking believe it.
Nobody.
And I'm not surprised that people voted the way they did in New York, you know, for many reasons.
I think part of them are jaded.
Anything that fuels suspicion that the Trump administration is anything but open and straight with them will be just, you know, fuel on a wildfire.
And yeah, I mean, I'm not saying it was a good idea, but I can see where it's coming from.
Sorry, I've talked too much.
I'm agitated.
I'm pissed from what happened earlier.
I want more.
Now, I think you've got this.
I think it's a perfect storm between the Charlie Kirk making everyone conscious Israel does this.
You got a guy wandered off the reservation.
I mean, I'm convinced at state, but people believe what they believe.
It opened their mind.
Israel's assassinating everyone they don't like, even a guy like Charlie Kirk.
That opened people's minds.
Then you had Tucker interviewing Nick Fuentes.
And Nick Fiantes is so articulate.
His arguments are so good.
He's so crisp.
He's so fresh.
He's so direct.
That made a powerful impact, caused all kinds of consternation among conservatives who are shitting in their pants that there are questions being raised about our relationship with Israel.
And now you got Mem Danny coming in this situation.
And he wants to repudiate Israel.
I'm very troubled to discover he made some agreement to leave this Arch Zionist chief of police in place, which is a terrible, terrible thing.
She's a monster cracking down on any protests.
He should boot her the first act he does.
But if he's made an agreement, if he's actually agreed to keep her, he may be putting a great big target on his face, even though it's already there.
But I think between these three, there's a repudiation of Israel, of the, you know, APAC running our Congress.
The whole idea of Net Yale coming here and giving orders to Donald Trump.
I think people are sick of it, sick of it.
And I think it's reflected in that vote, which I applaud.
Yeah.
You know, in all of this, I mean, I was already amused by this outrage about Mamdani.
It was like, oh my God, you know, this movement will now have the socialist whole thing.
And I was laughing because if you are looking for socialist takeover, look no further than 2008.
Hey, New Yorkers, you had Wall Street and the UN all along, right?
Wall Street brought in the socialist model, right?
Whereby they get all the profits, but you pay for all of their losses.
That was 2008.
Hey, if that's not socialism, what the heck is bailout?
And with that, I mean, this country got shafted to the tunes of hundreds of billions that I don't think Mamdani could waste if he even tried, right?
Then on the other hand, you have the UN, this like, you know, cancer, this tumor right at the heart of New York.
Well, the UN is running the genocide plans.
I mean, yes, they are running these socialist contracts.
They are running the Masonic takeover.
They are running everything that there is to run that's pernicious.
And you're crapping yourself about Mamdani.
I mean, come on, really.
So in all of this, I think we all have to calm down and say, really identify what exactly is our problem, because there are lots of different things being conflated and it ends up in this big fog.
For example, I don't think the average person objects to the existence of Israel.
I mean, now that it's there, annihilating it is not anything that anybody wants.
So it's not about the Jewish people and it's not about the straight state of Israel ever.
What it's actually about is, say, October 7th, where it very much looks like a false flag, but it very much looks like criminals, the very same deep state criminals that are, by the way, the same as in the CIA, the same as in MI6, conducted a false flag operation that then enabled them to conduct the genocide of people.
That's what it's about.
It's not about the state of Israel, the Jewish people.
And whoever, ever, ever conflates these two is trying to silence people or it's just too freaking stupid.
So in all of this, the same with Mamdani.
It's like, hey, if you fear that one mayor can screw up your life, then maybe you should rediscover the common law and litigate about the things that you actually don't like.
Where exactly do you think are your rights being violated and litigate it?
It's not like he's super powerful.
Mamdani isn't a king either.
So I think people need to learn analytical skills, legal skills, and need to figure out what sort of systems can we put in place that are resilient against capture and resilient against corruption.
And that's really what we should be working on.
So I think you're right.
I'm just fascinated that there should be from multiple directions.
Charlie Kirk was sort of a center right.
Nick Fioenes is sort of far right.
Mandami far left.
And they all converge on rejecting and repudiating Israel in the genocide.
I mean, I love it, Catherine.
But then again, be careful because they are not repudiating Israel.
They're repudiating maybe, you know, Neta and Yahoo, who might just be a member of a transnational criminal organization, right, known as the intelligence agencies.
And I think that's what people are against, right?
I don't think anybody, I mean, I have to check what Mamdani's real opinions are, right?
But the average person is not against the Jewish people or even the state of Israel.
It's basically criminal acts conducted in the name of the Jewish people or the state of Israel.
Very much like most people were against the Iraq war and the Iraq war and also Afghanistan were based on lies and conducted completely different business plans that were never ever discussed or mentioned.
And all the Americans were utterly helpless to do anything about it.
In fact, the biggest ever protest in the history of the United Kingdom was against the Iraq war.
And yet it led to nothing.
You know, the UK government just smirked and said, hey, you know, that's so amusing.
You're out in the streets.
Who gives a damn?
Yes.
Yes.
And it leaves the public feeling a massive sense of frustration, you know.
Helplessness, hopelessness.
What difference can they make?
And don't worry about that, too.
I mean, I think the ingredients are here for a French-style revolution, but I don't see the leadership that would make it happen.
I don't think people these days even know how to build a guillotine, unless it comes with IKEA assembly instructions that are mostly pictures.
I don't think most people can build one.
So, you know, I don't think that's the same thing.
They're made in China, by the way.
They're all made in China.
So, but, you know, just aside, I totally understand the hopelessness, the helplessness.
Gosh, I mean, as a targeted individual, that resonates with me deeply because if anybody is helpless and hopeless, it's a targeted individual.
But at the end of the day, and this is, I think, where hope comes in, we underestimate our individual personal power massively.
So, for example, me, myself, and I, just by myself, achieved huge things trying to uncover covert non-consensual implanting.
In fact, I, by myself, achieved more than the U.S. government has so far with all the resources, than the FBI or the Secret Service has with their resources, even though they need to get ahead of this, right?
So, one person can outmaneuver, out-compete the best-funded agencies in the world if you're just smart.
Now, the way to go about it, I think, the general recipe of how to go about it is: number one, think about it in terms of systems.
Like, what is wrong with the current system?
For example, the elections, also the ones in New York, people don't really trust the result either that much.
They are not really safe.
So, how can we think of systems that bring about safe elections?
For example, there could be live-streamed webcams in all the polling stations, right?
I mean, not filming how people cast their ballot precisely, but how many people are going into the building?
Is there any dodgy shenanigans around the ballots?
And it should be mandatory to have for every polling station a live streaming webcam, not just one.
Show it inside, outside, around the building.
There are rules of how close you can be to do electioneering and influence people and advertise.
Is that being upheld?
Are any ballots being swapped?
So, hey, how cheap and easy is it to have a live-streamed webcam?
Maybe keep the footage for a year, you know?
Super easy, super cheap to do.
Then, how can we make the ballot safer?
Know, I have a proposal of how you could actually keep your original ballot.
And when you cast your ballot, you just make a paper copy of it and it gets digitally uploaded to a serial number that only you know.
So you can check how your ballot was counted after you leave the polling booth.
And if there's any discrepancy, you have the original with all the watermarks and the high-tech stuff in the paper in your hand.
And you can walk to a court and say, Hey, I can enforce my right.
At the moment, you can't enforce shit.
You don't even know how your ballot was cast, really, how your vote was cast.
So that's another option.
There's a million ways.
And once you do that, and once every single person can check total numbers and even scan copies of ballots that they truly say what people claim that they say, you know, it can still be kept anonymous.
Only the person who voted knows their serial number.
All this can be done easily.
Every single printer in every local staples or every office building has the ability to email the copy so they have also the ability to upload it to a website.
Anything you scan can be uploaded and also a second copy onto the same safety paper made.
So your council, your local district has a copy and you have the original.
It's so easy.
You can actually, you know, every single person could check their vote, right?
All these illegals would be flushed out because you would roughly know how many people live in your district.
And if there's, you know, 500,000 people more, where are those ballots?
You know, where are those ballots from?
Anything that's, for example, filled out by computers could be picked up.
So there's a million ways to make things safer.
And the point is that this can only ever be really brought in if there's pressure from the population, or if there's a proposal and you litigate that this proposal is enforced because that's the only one that guarantees that rights are upheld.
And I think that's what people should be focused on.
And there, you mustn't feel helpless.
You should feel impatient to get going and get started with this.
That's what I think.
All these problems are in the big scheme of things trivial.
Trivial.
It's not about curing cancer.
It's just about making a bunch of elections safe.
It's not that hard.
Catherine, after all these thefts of elections, how can we still be using electronic voting machines?
Period.
I mean, there's something so profoundly wrong about that.
Yes, absolutely it is.
But then again, where are the class action lawsuits where voters litigate that their rights were violated by having these?
I don't see them.
And I think I blame Netflix.
I blame Netflix.
Back in the day of George Washington, you didn't have lights on.
You had candles and you sat in dark and you had time to think what the hell is wrong with the country.
Now everybody's watching their TV shows and it's completely bamboozled and doesn't have any time between the commute and watching the shows at night.
We need more people actually thinking about this and putting it in place.
And we need people to educate themselves about the important things in life, not what the Kardashians did last week, but how do you actually litigate pro se and put on your own court case without having to incur these stupid, scammy legal fees?
You know, I think that's where the that's where the way forward lies.
So if you're unhappy in New York, I mean, you can move house and maybe that's the best thing for you to do.
But hey, New York was a shithole yesterday and last month and last, you know, last year.
This is not just going down the drain now, right?
So everybody needs to calm down and just focus in on what exactly, what exactly is wrong.
Don't stick it to names or parties, but what is the process that's hijacked or captured or corrupted and how can it be done better?
And the name of the game is to build systems that are resilient against capture.
That's the technical term in systems analysis.
How do you make build systems that their own internal gravity pulls them towards integrity?
I love it, Catherine.
More, more, more, more, more.
This is your show tonight.
I love it.
You're giving us so much good stuff.
I'm worried that Wall Street is going to sabotage Mamdini.
He's not going to have a chance to do anything like he aspires.
I thought his speech was just marvelous.
I thought it was the best political speech I've heard the last 20 years.
He was so articulate.
He was so direct.
He was so bold.
He was so precise.
It blew me away, Catherine.
I never heard one of his speeches before.
I loved it.
I loved it.
The guy impressed me tremendously.
I don't think he's going to have a chance to implement his agenda.
I think it's going to be sabotage.
Well, sabotage is the name of the game.
And that's where we get back to it.
Because, you know, some people think that this is the Islamist takeover of New York.
He's the next Siddhik Khan, the guy in London, you know, his equivalent.
They say he's a socialist and, you know, the end is nigh, the end is nigh.
And for all of these things, it's already happened to New York.
All right.
It already happened.
So whatever, you know, I mean, come on, there was 9-11.
I mean, come on, right?
What big disaster would this the outcome of this mayoral race be, right?
Now, if people are genuinely, you know, if they have a grievance like, hey, all our taxpayer money is being stolen, that's a valid complaint.
I mean, regardless of how it's used, it's not even reaching any of the projects.
It's being just stolen outright.
And you can see that because New York is a shithole and it has these high taxes and this huge amount of wealth.
So the amount of money being stolen in New York is astronomical.
You just have to get into a car and drive through New York and you see that the wealth being made and the wealth being used to do up the place are not in proportion.
So money is draining out of New York like a torrent.
Now, how can we build systems whereby we can at least ensure that the public funds stay and are being used properly?
And there's, for example, Catherine Austin Fitz had a solution to live public accounting where you can see as soon as anybody swipes a council debit card or pays an invoice, the citizens should be able to see that live to be able to track how money is being spent throughout the year.
That needs to be put in place.
So we need lobbying groups to, and I'm talking lobbying groups because protesting has never ever benefited anybody ever.
You know, if you are, I was just posting about that today.
I have never ever taken part in a protest and I will never take part in one because number one, the intelligence agencies organize them most of the time.
Look at Black Lives Matter.
Look at any of them.
If they don't organize it, they will infiltrate it to the ninth.
So it will be an intelligence agency operation, right?
Number two, it's a waste of time.
Protesting doesn't have any legal validity.
You can't, it's not a lever.
It's just a show, which is why corporations focus on lobbying and litigation.
Lobbying, litigation, these are the two things that end and paying people off, of course, right?
That's what works.
So the two legal forms, people should use it to lobby and litigate for the right things, right?
Number three is if you ever attend a protest in the 20th or 21st century, you are a sitting duck for directed energy weapons and neural weapons to be used and tested on you.
And there are examples from the Occupy movement, from the protest against an Air Force base in Green and Common in the UK, where people were, and with people, I mean women, women were attacked with microwave weapons and subsequently died of breast cancer.
So, you know, I'm thinking we have to get going.
I support your court cases, Jim.
Litigation, that's the only way forward.
You know, you are genuinely trying to force the courts and the government to admit scientific fact from which it follows that these little spectacles that they had were false flag operations.
They were staged.
They were fake, right?
Yeah.
And it's sad that we have to use litigation to enforce common sense and basic science, right?
And basic maths.
But that's the frontier.
That's the battle line we have to fight that.
Well, it's dumbfounding to me.
I'm even having to sue my local chief of police and the Oregon Village president for non-performance of duty.
Catherine, it's just simply absurd.
I send them all this evidence.
I send the statutes that are being violated and they refuse to investigate or issue a complaint.
I'm just shocked.
Shocked.
You might be surprised.
I'm not surprised at all.
So in Europe, I was involved in the cases of, gosh, I mean, several targeted individuals, like directly.
So, for example, I had several big ones where I wrote an expert affidavit and I supported them like that.
And I went through all the police stuff that was done to them.
And I can tell you that from my experience of the targeted individuals, at least, all the cases I've ever come across and looked into, 100% of the cases in Europe and the US, the police are the criminals.
I have never, ever in my life, ever seen a proper police investigation.
I am of the opinion that they were never done.
I don't think the FBI ever investigated anything properly.
I think police investigations are kind of they are in the realm of police shows on TV, you know, detectives on TV and CSI Miami.
They seem to do forensics and investigations.
I think the way it has been done all these years is that you had the Masons, like the fraternal, fraternal order of police, where they have the Masonic handshake in their logo, right?
You have these dudes, they think of a Patsy and they set that person up.
And then they fabricate evidence and they steal evidence and they have some Patsy and they throw them in jail.
And in the back door, they have their child trafficking and drug trafficking, whatever the hell they're doing, right?
I think this is how the world has been run.
And we just didn't notice because we were not victims of crime enough.
The black community experienced this.
They were telling us that the police are criminals for a very long time.
Some people didn't believe them, right?
Now the targeted individuals are saying the same.
They're like, hey, the police steal, destroy evidence all the time or falsify it and fabricate evidence all the time.
It's like their standard operating procedure.
It's almost like that's what they do, you know?
So that's the battle line.
So again, number one, it's very easy to recapture these people.
You have to force them to make every piece of evidence public.
They should not be allowed to publish any sort of like pathologist reports or anything and keep it under lid.
At the end of the investigation, it all has to be made public with photographs so that you can see how the pathologist came to his or her conclusions.
And any other piece of evidence has to be shown and somehow published digitally online, however it's possible.
Because as soon as you start checking their work, you find out number one that they are all morons, number two, that they lie all the time, and number three, that they really are corrupt criminals.
So, really, dude, had you told me that your chief of police got your evidence and then fell over backwards to try to help you, that's when I would have fainted from surprise.
If you tell me the jack shit, I'm like, yep, yep, sounds about right.
Just unbelievable, Catherine.
Unbelievable.
I'm not sure how they're going to respond in court.
You know, I actually added an element that, you know, in my prayer for relief, that the chief of belief and the village president be fined $1,000 a day apiece from the day that she on October 5th told me the Oregon Department of Police was not going to pursue this matter until it's resolved.
And I mean, that would, you know, I wanted to kind of personalize it, make it clear, this is for dereliction of duty.
So they shouldn't have any fine imposed upon them paid by this little town out of our taxpayer money.
I was meant to say, be careful with your damages because you're going to pay for them.
Yeah.
I know.
Crazy.
You know, I haven't published that yet on my blog.
I'm thinking I ought to go ahead and publish it like everything else I have.
I got so much about my Sandy York suit.
I got so much about this suit against BitChute and Rumble.
And this is an extension.
Yeah.
You know, when you publish it, absolutely.
And make like a, what's it called?
A bookmark so that people can find all your litigation.
It's with, I found with litigation, the really the hardest thing is to make all that information quickly and easily absorbable.
So bullet point summaries for every PDF document so that people can follow the logic very quickly, like in a 10-15 minute read.
If you can do that, you can get so many people on board.
And then, of course, the other thing that I always said, and I will say it until I die, if you go into court, never, ever, ever go alone.
And I don't mean take a lawyer, heck no.
A lawyer is a professional saboteur who works for the court.
They do not work for you.
They work, they take money from you, but they work for the court, right?
Because next week you're gone, but they still have to make a living with the court, right?
So it's a good thing to go pro se.
It's the best thing, actually.
It's a bit more work, but hey, then you know what you're doing.
But the important thing of not going alone is you have to publicize the court date.
You have to appeal for independent court observers.
If they have a social media channel or a YouTube channel where they regularly mouth off about stuff, excellent, because what you want is to people come in, just like the Joe blogs and the general public of old, sit in the back, have a good look of the shit that's going down there, and then complain about it, complain about the corruption by the judge, complain about any unfair treatment of one litigant over another.
Because if you go into any of these modern-day court cases, you will see everything.
The judges will try everything in the book from slightly shady to really dodgy to outright criminal just to find in favor of their little cabal, which includes the police and it includes, I think, also child trafficking and the drug trade.
So, you know, if you want to litigate against false flag operations, be aware that if you go into court, even just against the chief of police, it's never just the chief of police.
It's the chief of police being the front for the Masons who also run the intelligence agencies.
So that's your battle line.
And then when you have, you know, the mayor, she might be taking money from them, right?
In unseen ways.
Not unheard of, not unheard of at all.
In fact, I think that's how the world works, right?
So just be aware that your court case might look like something very small, but you're up against very, very big players.
This should not, um, this should motivate you, it shouldn't dissuade you.
Yeah.
So, but just be aware that if you walk into the court and you think, oh, it's just my little, you know, dumbass mayor and this idiot of a police chief, that's not true.
Behind them, there will be people who are real professionals in the legal realm.
And suddenly you find that dumb shits, you know, little yokel idiots have knowledge that only a professional lawyer in DC would have on recall, you know, so expect that.
But the way to guard against that is to have at least 20 independent court observers in the back because then you have it's a huge psychological effect on the judge as well.
Because if you think about it, as soon as you go into court, you're looking at the judge and maybe sideways to the other party, but the judge is looking back at you.
But what dominates their field of vision is the audience.
So when you start populating the audience with all these people, and I'm telling you, they will inquire ahead of time of who sits in the back.
That information will be provided to them by the intelligence agencies.
I have seen that in practice in Switzerland.
So they'll get a little profiling of how many people do they control in the back.
And if suddenly there are, you know, five big YouTubers in your audience that they do not control, the judges shit themselves because suddenly they will be the bad guy.
They will be the next judge merchant, you know, whose career is on the line and they will be eternalized in the annals of the internet.
And that, when you reach about 20 people in the audience, that is when you can see a judge crack.
And for somebody like you, it should be easy to summon 20 people to just turn up for the day.
And I'm telling you, if you get to that stage, your case is as good as one.
You will see the judge get uncomfortable.
And it's always a negotiation between two sides.
You think the judge is just impartial and will just listen to your case on its merits.
Bullshit.
No, it is really they are being blackmailed by the intelligence agencies from the one side and you have to lovingly blackmail them from your side slightly bit more.
And the way to do that is to tell them if you pull any funny business, those YouTubers will not shut up about it.
So your career is over, my friend.
You know, that's the only counter argument you have.
I'm not talking about anything malicious, but just, you know, uncover their bullshit.
So this is an example of how the little people can fight back.
All you need is a free YouTube channel, some friends who, you know, habitually just talk about it.
And when you go into court, get your friends to sit in the back.
Wow, I'm glad you told me that, Catherine.
Wouldn't it cross my mind?
I told you five years ago, Jim.
I told you when you first went into court.
They have 20 people there.
No, but you know, as I often say to Bill, you're just not listening, are you?
Love it.
No, seriously.
That is the golden solution.
And I have seen it in practice.
I have seen it in practice, you know.
So, for example, we had one court case in Switzerland.
It was the litigant or the person being targeted and destroyed was a psychologist who was, you know, also assisting court cases with psychological profiles.
And she was a woman of integrity.
And for this reason, the Masons were trying to destroy her.
And it was a very complicated case.
And, you know, they were ready to just utterly destroy her, withdraw her license, everything.
And a German journalist turned up.
I turned up with my YouTube channel, which was kind of a niche channel, but it was on the shit list of the intelligence agencies.
And this was in Switzerland.
This was, it wasn't Zurich.
It was one of these small places, you know, up in the north.
Anyway, small court.
But when we turned up, I hadn't opened my mouth.
So the Swiss can tell the difference between Swiss German and German German.
And I speak, you know, German German.
I hadn't opened my mouth and they knew to address me and the German journalist in Hochdeutsch, so high German, the clean, crisp German and not the Swiss dialect that nobody can, you know, really understand.
They knew who we were before we came in.
So somebody had profiled the entire audience, had watched us all travel to the court.
Now that's the intelligence agencies, had told the court staff, and then the judge addressed me in German.
I was just in the audience.
I'm like, dude, I'm not part of this court case.
Why are you looking at me and giving explanations in the crispest, clearest German that you can, right?
And it's because I was the one with the YouTube channel.
So I'm telling you, this shit works.
Fascinating.
Yeah, you know, the other thing that happened.
I'm so glad.
A couple of clues to look for.
And you will see the same thing in the Trump cases.
In my experience, because the Masons are an all-male society, if the case is kind of iffy and the judge thinks, well, I can't really spin it for the cartel.
I can't really earn my brownie points because the case is so against us.
If none of them can earn their brownie points, they will have a female judge because nobody fucking cares.
If she, you know, they're like, yeah, this case could go either way.
I don't want to risk it.
Just take the woman.
You know, if the woman judge loses the case for the cabal, she's just the woman who gives a damn.
She's not in the hierarchy of the Masons trying to rise further.
So as you're moving through the hierarchy, by the time you get a female judge, that is kind of the unspoken sign that you're about to win.
Example in point: Judge Cannon in Florida.
Remember Trump's case where Judge Cannon found entirely in favor of Trump?
Yes.
It's not because Florida has a darth of Masonic corrupt motherfuckers as judges.
It was that his case was so solid, all the Masons were like, nah, nah, my friend, you know, give it to somebody else.
Nobody wanted to take it.
So they gave it to the woman.
That's what happened.
That's how it is.
So with these women, you get both women of genuine integrity.
And I think Judge Cannon in Florida was like that.
Or you get these like attack bitches.
And it's kind of like a real vicious cunt who will do a final stand trying to scratch and claw and destroy you.
If she fails, then yeah, she will find in your favor, but it will be vicious.
So it could go either way.
But the unspoken thing is that some man, a male senior Mason, expert in law, looked at your case and said, ah, we probably can't flip this one in our favor.
So give it to a woman.
You know, that's what happens.
So if you get a female judge, hey, that's a good sign.
Very, very, very interesting, Catherine.
Nobody will tell you this, right?
No, I love it.
I love it.
Any other insights I want you to share?
I need all this.
Yeah, I assume this is really it.
So, and I just, I just noticed that, you know, as I as I got an audience in for my court cases in London, the judges got more and more nervous.
And like the last one, he was like a cornered snake, just vicious.
He didn't even let me speak, you know, it was outrageous.
But by that time, the court was packed.
I had, I think, 21 people in the back.
And some of them had flown from the US, from Canada, really international audience.
And he just, he flipped out, you know.
So he was, in fact, so angry, I think he then complained to his handlers, like, you didn't tell me it was quite like that.
You know, he was shocked when he walked into the room and found it full.
And then it just, he just basically just threw the book at me and stormed out.
That was my last court case in 2019.
Yeah, but I'm telling you, this stuff works.
So always, always ahead of time, tell the world what you're about to do, then tell them the court date, ask them to just travel to the courthouse and, you know, be there in the audience.
Say, don't do any noise, don't disrupt this thing, don't cheer.
Just sit there silently and stare at the judge.
And as the judge is trying to pull off his or her corrupt bullshit, right, they will be staring at all these people staring back at them.
And it does go under their skin, I'm telling you.
It takes a very pure psychopath to be able to still just, you know, just cut somebody down.
I love it, Catherine.
So I'm saying you still have excellent conditions for success.
You just have to use your platform to appeal for independent court observers.
Do you have already a date coming up?
No, no, no.
They haven't responded yet.
It's still in the preliminary stages.
But they have, you know, 30 days, 20 working days, and it hasn't expired yet.
And I'm very interested to see how they're going to try to defend themselves because it seems to me it's so cut and dry.
There is no defense.
But I'm sure they're going to come up with something.
Yeah.
But you know, when they come up with something, they are also showing their hand.
Because if they come up with something clever, then that clever trick, they kind of reveal to the world.
And we can pass it on to other people who have similar cases and say, hey, beware of this trick they might pull.
And this is how you counter it.
So bit by bit, you know, piece by piece, we can actually put together a book of dirty tricks that they might pull on you and, you know, warn others against it.
It's a ratcheting process.
You know, you have to keep going.
You have to appeal it and just keep playing the game.
But always use it as a kind of educational material for other court cases running in parallel to you or coming after you.
So this is what I mean.
Focusing on the process, how to counter dirty tricks is sometimes much more valuable and important than the actual court case itself.
And as you build up a dictionary, a lookup table of their dirty tricks, I call it depleting their bullshit arsenal.
So they can throw these bullshit rockets at you, but eventually they run out of things to throw at you.
You have a counter for everything that they might pull.
I love it.
So there we are.
You sent me a long list of other links.
Was there any other topics that we didn't discuss tonight?
No, these are actually this whole legal thing is far more interesting than the conventional issues out there about the election and Charlie Kirk.
And I'm fascinated by what's going on in the country because I do think there's a growing resentment of Israeli Zionist control of our government.
I think the people are fed up.
And I think the party that is most aggressive in exploiting that, that's going to prevail.
And because Trump is in the center of it, he's a subject of net Yahoo.
He's not going to be able to rise to the occasion.
So I think that...
Is he, though?
I think he has to, I mean, right now, Trump has to walk into, you know, walk onto the deck of the ship that's the United States and steer it in its current state with whatever leaks need to be patched, which whatever infighting of various pirates on deck is going on, right?
He has to steer the ship as it is now.
What might come later, what he might steer it towards is his business.
But right now, he could not do anything without the support of the Jewish lobby because it's so vast.
And because you can be in government in like key decision-making positions of government and be a double citizen.
I find that insane.
You're basically a foreign agent.
You have two passports.
So then here we are again, back to the process.
You have to have procedures in place whereby if you're elected to higher positions of government, you are not.
I mean, that's why you have to be born in the U.S.
That was the whole idea.
But having this thing of you can be born in the US and then have allegiances to another country, that's insane.
Yes.
It's through the back door, levering out what the founding fathers put in place against this eventuality.
Yes.
My very first political speech in 2008, Ron Paul Freedom Rally on the grass outside the Capitol in Washington, D.C., Tax Day, 15 April, I gave a talk, subsequently published under the title 9-11 in the Neocon Agenda, my central point being dual citizens should never be placed in policy shaping or decision-making position because you cannot know that their loyalty to the other state doesn't outweigh their loyalty to the United
States.
2008.
Yeah.
And it should have been obvious, should have been done.
And it's grotesque that we still allow these dual citizens to run the ship of state.
It's terrible.
Terrible.
Should there ever be a law like that or a court decision, maybe because some people can prove that there was bias, say, and they litigate in court.
And the court finds that this is not with the, you know, not in agreement with the Constitution and the principles of the founding fathers, which could happen.
Well, you would get rid of quite a large fraction of the government, actually.
I would say that last part.
I would say if there's a law like that, you would get rid of a very large fraction of the government.
Yes.
Yes.
You would.
You would kind of, I mean, you detach these tentacles, but because they're substantial, with one fell swoop, you could remove a lot of this foreign influence.
Yes, yes.
We got threat of electronic voting machine mail-in balloting and then doubles dual citizens in government.
It would make a huge difference.
I agree.
I agree.
So these are the issues that one needs to work towards, and one has to set a deadline.
And I think the American people have to sit down and become very intelligent, smart, and intellectual, and erudite about their own systems.
And with what court case can you enforce this?
How do you have to lobby the few people who have a brain and some integrity in your government to really get this done and push for it and really mobilize people?
That's where the work lies.
I think, and that's down to individuals.
You know, it's always down to individuals.
And people always say, oh, but you know, as one person, you can't achieve anything.
I would say anything that was ever achieved was always ever the work of one person.
You know, Albert Einstein was just one person.
Nikola Tesla was just one person.
You know, all the architects who built, you know, Golden Gate and all these places, Tower Bridge in London, it was typically one guy.
Yes.
So, you know, don't be afraid if you're just one guy or girl.
You know, just keep going.
Just keep going.
That's, you know, it means that you have the whole map in your brain.
Catherine, wonderful conversation tonight.
I'm thrilled.
You give Bill my warm regards.
I hope he copes well with all the pain you guys are being inflicted day after day, it seems outrageous, absolutely outrageous.
It's been just a joyful conversation.
I'm so glad you shared all of the above.
Just wonderful, Catherine.
So don't despair.
Don't despair.
It's all good.
Says Jim Fetzer, real deal special with Catherine Wharton.
My name is Bill Benny tonight, but under fire, once again, joyful experience.
Looking forward to our very next.
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