Jim Fetzer - The Raw Deal (10 October 2025) with co-host Paul from CA and special guest David Skrbina

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Oct. 11, 2025 - Jim Fetzer

01:56:31

The Raw Deal (10 October 2025) with co-host Paul from CA and special guest David Skrbina

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	I need somebody.
	Not just anybody.
	You know, I need someone.
	When I was younger, so much younger than today.
	I never needed anybody's help in any way.
	Now these days are gone and I'm not so self-assured Now I find the gentle mind and open up the doors Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.
	And I do appreciate you being round.
	Help me get my feet back on the ground.
	Won't you please, please?
	Thank you.
	This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Raw Deal, right here in Revolution Radio Studio B this 10th day of October, 2025.
	Where I expect to be joined by co-host Paul from California, but my special guest today will be David Skurbina, who is an expert on many subjects.
	He spent 30 uh, well, 15 years at Dearborn, Michigan, and pre-or prior to that at the University of Helsinki, which has one of the best philosophy departments in the world, may I say.
	Before we get there, however, we're gonna take a look at a couple of stories of international concern that uh I believe are gonna merit our attention.
	it it Yeah, here we go.
	There we go.
	US has depleted its missile supply to Ukraine.
	This may be why Trump is talking about Tomahawks.
	We got Tomahawks, but maybe we don't have more conventional weapons.
	Now, it wants more fast.
	This is very, very troubling, of course, because the situation in Ukraine is massively bad.
	The Russians are beaten the hell out of them.
	Citing low munition stockpiles of Pentagon is urging weapon contractors to accelerate missile production, doubling or even quadrupling production rates to prepare for possible war with China.
	This is just ludicrous beyond police.
	It does look as though when the Secretary of Now war, Heg's Admiral, the Admirals and Generals together, he was telling him the United States is no longer play defense, now we're gonna go on the offense, which may sound fun in football, but it's ludicrous in terms of international affairs because it means U.S. is gonna become an aggressor nation.
	Not that we haven't been for long standing.
	Namely, it helps to boost production rate for twelve types of missiles it wants on hand, include patriot interceptors, bad interceptors, joint air service, standoff missiles, and the light.
	Yeah, well, good luck with that.
	It takes quite a while to get these production lines going.
	Meanwhile, and this is rather ominous.
	I gifted my husband these pants and now he wears them everyone as transferred nukes to Venezuela.
	Now, I was a tad slow on the update here about this Venezuela thing.
	Not really it appears to be an anticipation of attacking Iran, the Middle Eastern oil supply being cut off.
	We're gonna want to steal oil from Venezuela.
	What else is new, right?
	So here's a report about what would happen if America found Russia nukes in Venezuela.
	As far as I can tell, they're entitled to have them.
	There may even be a secret defense pack between Russia and Venezuela.
	would make sense.
	In a revelation that has stunned Washington and set alarm bells ringing across the Western Hemisphere, recent intelligence leaks suggest that Russia has secretly stationed nuclear-capable weapons in Venezuela, a bold and provocative move that immediately recalls the darkest days of the Cold War.
	According to officials familiar with the matter, U.S. surveillance satellites and reconnaissance aircraft detected unusual activity near several Venezuelan military installations, including what analysts believe are storage bunkers and transporter launcher systems compatible with Russian intermediate-range nuclear missiles.
	The discovery marks a dramatic escalation in Moscow's geopolitical posture.
	By placing nuclear weapons just a few thousand kilometers from the U.S. mainland, Russia is signaling that it is willing to challenge Washington not only on the battlefields of eastern Europe, but also in its own strategic backyard.
	The implications are profound.
	A new era of nuclear brinkmanship may be unfolding.
	And this time we will unpack what actually happened.
	So stay tuned.
	Well, that's pretty fascinating.
	Because we're running all these ships down there, it wouldn't surprise me to all if Russia provided Ukraine with the best anti-ship missiles and the world are unstoppable.
	They can sink every ship we send down there.
	But I was staggered when a friend shared with me a characterization of a new Russian nuclear torpedo.
	It operates at extreme depths.
	It's extraordinarily powerful.
	Could hypothetically take out an entire NATO fleet in 14 seconds.
	When I first saw this enactment, I was wondering whether it was real.
	The ocean was about to witness the detonation of the most powerful weapon ever deployed underwater.
	Russia's Status 6 Poseidon Torpedo, a 65-foot nuclear-powered doomsday weapon carrying a 100 megaton thermonuclear warhead, had been stalking NATO's largest naval exercise in decades.
	For 72 hours, the autonomous torpedo had remained undetected at depths exceeding 3,000 feet.
	Its nuclear reactor providing unlimited range while its AI guidance system tracked the movements of 47 NATO warships worth 89 billion dollars.
	But at 1347 hours, when the torpedo's proximity sensors detected the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group directly above.
	Fourteen seconds of underwater nuclear detonation would create the largest man-made explosion in maritime history.
	What started as NATO's exercise trident fury would end with the most catastrophic naval disaster since World War II, as a single weapon would demonstrate Russia's ability to destroy entire fleets with technology the West barely understood.
	How did one torpedo threaten an entire NATO fleet?
	What made the underwater explosion so devastating?
	Join me in discovering the truth behind 14 seconds that changed naval warfare forever.
	I was in a state of utter disbelief because appeared so authentic.
	Now it turns out it's only a hypothetical reconstruction, but the threat posed by these Russian weapons is so enormous.
	I fear the West is just no idea what it's dealing with here.
	No acknowledgement that Russia is the premier military power in the world.
	Donald Trump keeps talking about U.S. military superiority.
	We know he's not the brightest bulb in the box, but I think he's also massively ignorant.
	It worries me.
	David, do you share some of those concerns that we got a president who's gonna get us into a nuclear where we're gonna lose without knowing what he's doing?
	Your thoughts.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, yeah, I think it's it's really striking what uh what we seem to be ignoring in terms of Russian capabilities.
	So it's it's yeah, hugely problematic.
	You know, obviously, access to the mainland in the U.S. is uh is potentially devastating, you know, if they can take out large military facilities, uh naval fleets or major military bases, then that's gonna that's gonna immediately uh you know hamper uh you know most of our uh our our projected power around the world.
	And if they can do that that quickly, then yeah, then we really are sunk, I you know whether that's a bad thing or not, I'm I'm still sort of torn.
	I'm kind of I'm I'm pretty much kind of an anti-empire guy, you know.
	So I'm in a sense I'd like to kind of see the empire go down in its own way.
	I don't like to have a lot of people die, but um, but somehow the empire's gonna end here, I think.
	Yeah, Paul, were you seeking to interject?
	Oh, I was just gonna make a funny quip, you know, it's a you you commie, you communist.
	Well, I think the US to see the empire die.
	The US is so overplayed, Sand and become an aggressor nation.
	We used to be a I think post-World War II at least for three decades, four, be a force for good in the world, but I'm afraid that that's long since gone.
	It probably is to do with the encroachment of CIA taking control of the government.
	So we have a whole invisible government.
	Paul don't I would I would take issue with the idea that we've ever been a force for good.
	Uh, you know, I don't know how long you'd have to go back.
	Uh, but uh yeah, I don't uh not that I'm not sure.
	Certainly World War II and one, you know, we got sucked in there and we we caused a hor horrific mess for ourselves.
	Yeah, you know, exactly.
	It's uh everything it just uh yeah, the usual suspects.
	I was gonna quip earlier too when this you brought up the destroying the entire fleet in 14 seconds.
	You guys remember uh uh uh K Kenny Main from back in Sports Center where he would go, that would be a record.
	I don't know if you remember that, Jim.
	Remember back in the good old days when they had like you know, Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann, Kenny Main, all those people.
	Anyway, that was his famous line was that would be a record.
	Keith Olmerman, boy.
	Yeah, he's turned into a loonia.
	I know it.
	I mean, there was a time when he had the most brilliant show on television countdown.
	It was sensational.
	It was so intellectual, it was so on the point, he was so articulate, it was incisive, it was sensational, and he's turned into a complete baffoon.
	That's just staggering.
	David, I don't know if you know this guy, Keith Olbermann, but I mean, he was for a while really sensational.
	I mean, it was my favorite show on television.
	You want to know something else staggering?
	I just discovered this morning.
	Yeah.
	So you know, every now and then I go out to you know, breakfast.
	It's you know, it's uh it's a rare occasion, but I mean, you know, so I went to I went to Denny's, right?
	Yeah, to get their uh you know, Grand Slam breakfast or whatever.
	I like I like Danny's or well they don't have any fucking butter.
	Okay.
	I mean, I'm sorry to use the F bomb, but uh I I I ask, I said, so uh I make sure to get butter because everywhere you go, these places now they just give you these margarine.
	That's all they do.
	They got big big tubs, and and I I know this going in.
	So places I've been before, like for example, there's other place called Country Inn, it's just smaller local chain, but they just give you the little pats, you know, the little foil wrap pats of butter, because you know they know people are gonna ask for it.
	They I mean, can you believe that?
	They didn't have any butter in the entire restaurant.
	It's like, what is this world coming to?
	And I I spare I spared the server the little lecture about how margarine is basically like poison, but uh, you know, but yeah, this is just it's so frustrating.
	And then just one other little quick addition, then we can move on with the show.
	Sorry to take over briefly.
	But you know, I was being tormented, Jim.
	If you can you know where I'm at with the whole the way things are in this world, and especially modern medical establishment.
	And I was listening to this uh couple in the booth right behind me, and the woman was going on and on talking to uh, you know, the man, and uh I'm I'm not sure what the relations were, but she was talking about her daughter who's got cancer, got autism, and you know, she's in Stanford and got a whole team of doctors, and it's just like you know how hard it was to keep my mouth zipped, you know.
	Yeah, well, do it, do it, do it.
	Hey, so much going on here now, and there's a lot of reflection taking place about Judaism, its place in the world.
	We got Jonas Alexis, who's a senior editor veteran, said hey, rethinking Jewish influence on UN's review.
	We we got uh a host of other uh reflections debating anti-Semitism with Josh Middledor with Kevin Barrett inside America's academic gulags, Chris Hedges.
	There's a lot going on here.
	Meanwhile, we have absurdities like Benjamin Netanyahu declaring of the Talmud.
	We were barred from certain professions.
	So we were forced to deal in trade, and in trade, you have to be literate, you have to deal with numbers.
	But also we we studied the not only the Torah and the Bible, we studied the interpretations of the Torah, this evolving body of knowledge, which is called the Talmud.
	And there's a lot of logic in there, a lot of argumentation, uh, and a lot of uh questioning.
	And that developed a capacity for innovative thinking.
	And that's how Israel that not only uh had the uh incoming in-gathering of the exiles that the prophets talk about, the the great prophets of the Bible talk about the in-gathering of the exiles.
	Well, we've ingathered the exiles, but it's not only not only uh uh uh living up to past prophecies, uh prophecies of the past, we're also shaping the future.
	In many ways, Israel has become the other innovation nation in the world.
	God, we're probably.
	Here's a comment about it from Truth Teller.
	That yeah, confirms.
	We studied the Talmud, which developed a capacity for innovating thinking, adding there's a lot of logic there.
	Let's see.
	Jesus is in hell boiling in an excrement.
	That's one of the three arch enemies of greatest arch enemies at Judaism.
	Mary was an adulteress, Jesus was the illegitimate child of a Roman soldier, Jeose practiced black magic and was sexually promiscuous, Christianity is an orgeastic cultist, practitioners engage in cannibalism, and there's more, and of course, it's uh in order for the mesh to return to the Jewish God to return to earth.
	All Christians must be dead.
	I mean, is it just insane?
	Judaism is uh, I mean, in these virulent forms, and I'm not damning all Jews.
	My glosa's friends have been Jews.
	There are many good Jews.
	I love the Jews against genocide when they occupy Grand Central Station, but David, this business of exalting the Talmud, which must be the most racist tract evered by the hand of man is just extraordinary and absurd and insanity.
	Your thoughts.
	Yeah, I totally agree.
	You know, I mean, that that really shows Netanyahu is basically a kind of extremist orthodox Jew who's he's just following the the uh yeah, the literal dictates of these guys from from uh this Talmudic reasoning, uh, you know, that they try to document over the years.
	I mean, that's a huge document.
	I don't I don't know if people really understand how big the Talmud is.
	It's like a double encyclopedia set.
	I mean, it's like freaking huge.
	And and uh yeah, it's filled with uh Jewish supremacism, uh hatred of Gentiles, uh, you know, tricks for manipulation and deceit.
	Um yeah, it's it's a whole it's a whole tactical uh you know workbook on how to manipulate and and and to uh to uh deceive and to surpass the uh the Gentiles of the world.
	So um, you know, it's yeah, it's a crude, racist, you know, supremacist book in the extreme.
	Uh, I mean, if people are interested, they should take a look at the Shulchan Aruch, which is a condensed version of the Talmud, which a lot of people, a lot of Jews will follow even today.
	And that's uh that has some of the best, the best of the lowlights of the of the whole Talmud in that book as well.
	But yeah, it's uh it's really a repulsive sort of book.
	Yeah, when you you look at uh Christianity and uh Islam as well, the three Abrahamic religions.
	Christianity is pretty open-minded about Judaism.
	Of course, we got the Christian Zionists who I think are in a self-contradictory position.
	They lack mental coherence.
	Uh Then we have the in Islam.
	You got Jesus as a prophet, Mohammed is a prophet, Moses is a prophet, Abraham is a prophet in many ways, the most tolerant of them all.
	Mohatma Gandhi observed he had studied all the world's religions.
	And the only one he found without any redeeming merit was Judaism.
	Paul, Paul, your thoughts.
	I uh uh I enjoyed your characterization uh of the Zionist Christians as mentally incoherent and not heard that put together that way.
	So yeah.
	Okay.
	Um yeah, I would just only add, you know, you've heard me before.
	I know your guest probably hasn't, but uh I'm not one of these people that worries about books, you know, or isms, right?
	In other words, you use the word virulent to describe uh and of course uh uh to me uh you know it's um you know these things are uh non-living, you know, they they have a material existence, just like the Bible, right?
	The town and so on and so forth.
	But in the end, uh what gives animation to these uh ideas is the uh the people themselves.
	And I believe that as much as anything, these people have been known for their behavior and not so much for their beliefs, and they've been expelled from many nations because of their behavior.
	And I think that in many ways behavior is innate.
	We've had these discussions before.
	So, yeah, that's where I come out on it.
	Most studies say with twins that are our basic traits are 60, about 66% uh genetic and the rest uh environmental.
	So there's a very strong predisposition, yeah, and certain basic forms of behavior.
	Uh, we'll get into it more deeply, no doubt, with David, but uh the Jewish inbreeding, I think, and their group strategy have led to a very peculiar situation for for that group among Earth's inhabitants.
	Meanwhile, my dear friend Gabut Barrett, ceasefire settlement, crushing victory for resistance, he writes.
	In two years of fighting, Israel couldn't even come close to defeating Hamas and allied resistance group.
	All they could do is commit genocide, taking their frustration out on women and children in hospitals and starving people lined up for food.
	The basics of this deal, a prisoner swab, and into the blockade at Gaza, Hamas stepping down in favor of a United Palestinian front back by regional countries, could have been reached on October 8, 2023, the day after the alleged October 7th event.
	That would have saved Israel from the complete delegitimization it has suffered after two years of genocide.
	I think it's basically right about it.
	My only concern is whether this is an authentic ceasefire.
	David, your thoughts about it.
	You know, I I can't trust Benjamin Netanyahu who not that anyone can trust the United States for that matter.
	We break our word regularly, even in the most solemn matters of treaties and formal negotiations, we treat them like dirt.
	It's just ridiculous.
	And late illustration, of course, being a joint plan of action with Iran, where Iran was cooperating 100%, and yet Trump pulled us out.
	Now he wants to reassert it, but with all kinds of complications, because basically once it is from Iran, I mean it's insulting and beyond belief, not credible.
	David, they're talking.
	Yeah, you know, I wonder why these groups even bother negotiating with us or with Israel.
	I mean, because we have zero credibility.
	I mean, it's like it's like talking to a blithering idiot.
	You know, why why don't you just say you guys have zero credibility?
	We're not gonna even waste word one with you.
	We're gonna talk to serious people around the world and try to get something done that way.
	I mean, that I would like to see them just come out and say that.
	You know, I guess my fear for the current situation is uh Israel's main priority is to get those hostages back.
	And you know, they'll say anything at this point just to try to get those guys released, and once they're released, then you know, who knows what they're gonna do.
	Then uh high likelihood they're gonna find an excuse to break the uh the agreement, and then they'll they'll just move back in and start slaughtering again.
	So I'm worried that Trump's all in, that this is a scam being played on the world, but in order to get the hostages back so they can completely the obliteration of the Palestinian people.
	Paul, your thoughts.
	Well, I don't really believe there are any hostages, and if there are, I would pose the question where exactly are they?
	Where are they being held?
	I mean, where what what uh hold out uh you know is uh you know that they have not attacked or bombed or leveled.
	You know, I just I think the whole thing is is legend, as they say, so yeah.
	You know, that's the reported to be best underground complex and tunnel.
	Right, right.
	Yeah, Tor Torabora in uh in Gaza, sure.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, those are the reports, uh, David, you think them credible.
	I've taken them to be basically credible.
	I mean, Paul's a skeptic on many issues, go right ahead, David.
	I say I think they're basically credible.
	I I guess they gotta believe they do have these guys.
	They've released them in the past, they're gonna probably release them in the future.
	Then I have no reason to doubt that that they're alive and that they'll probably get them back, and then yeah, then all bets are off.
	Who knows what's gonna happen when they get when they get anybody back that they think they've that uh yeah, of those remaining 23 or whatever it was that are still alive.
	Yes, uh but I but you know the thing is we we don't we don't know, they could just staged it.
	So I mean, okay, yeah, you I mean, people can believe what they want, right?
	And and I don't fault them for that.
	But I mean, when you think about how everything is staged, uh, but yeah, including, you know, as you probably know, if you listen to Jim, you know, the the most recent stage event, the whole Charlie Kirk thing.
	But uh so uh but somehow we think that uh reports from other countries, uh they're it's not staged over there.
	You know, so to me, it's like I don't I don't bl I believe almost nothing about I hear from anywhere to to be on at this point.
	It's kind of a it's a weird position to be in, but I'm I'm much more to the extreme than even Jim.
	And of course, if you know Jim's work, you know, he's made a career out of proving the uh, you know, shall we say the false uh nature of many things we're told.
	So you know, you mentioned uh Charlie Current.
	What I I like about it is it's created an absolute avalanche of of open discussion and criticism of Israel.
	There's no way Israel re can regain its standing behind the within the world.
	Caitlin Johnstone has several wonderful pieces, one of which I reported on yesterday about how they think that they can kind of propagandize the world back into liking Israel again.
	Ain't gonna happen.com.
	We'll be right back after this message.
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	And now we return you to your host.
	Thank you.
	Well, in addition to his work on the historical Jesus and so forth, David has done a lot of work on technology, the metaphysics of technology, comprine technology, two of his books.
	One of greatest interest for us today, no doubt, is the Jesus hoax.
	How St. Paul's cabal fooled the world for two thousand years.
	David, you're really into an approach that receives too little attention today.
	I think so much goes on about religious conflicts that are completely untestable.
	It's impossible to prove or disprove even the existence of God as you as a philosopher well understanding that people believe these things with absolute conviction.
	So the degree of subjective conviction overwhelmingly exceeds the objective evidential support, which in that case is non-existent.
	Thus am I, for example, an agnostic, recognizing in accordance with the ethics of belief what One should never accept or believe anything without sufficient evidence.
	So how could I possibly other than suspend belief in either the existence of God or the non-existence of God?
	I like what you're doing by going about and investigating what we can piece together about the real story of this guy.
	Uh who was a great, in my opinion, a great moral leader.
	I mean, he'll made a lot of very significant contributions.
	But when it comes to miracles, once you understand a miracles are violations of the laws of nature, and that the laws of nature cannot be violated and cannot be changed.
	I mean, the very concept of a miracle is an irrational presumption, or at least a rational.
	It's one that suspends or goes beyond the boundaries of rationality in relation to what we know about walking on water, turning water to wine, the loaves and fishes, the whole bit, not to mention the resurrection.
	I turn it over to you.
	I do want to add one footnote, however.
	My respect for hell's sake is phenomenal.
	I had a dear friend there.
	You may or may not have encountered Ilka Nina Luito, one of the best philosophers of science in the world.
	If you had any encounter with him, he was a great friend of mine.
	Go right ahead, David.
	Yeah, very good.
	Thanks, Jim.
	Yeah, maybe just to begin with, you're showing there is that's the book.
	Uh that's the original edition.
	I've got a new second edition that's out.
	It's on my, if you go to my personal homepage and just scroll down the first the first page, you'll see the uh the latest editions of those books.
	So they're there.
	Um yeah, they're available on Amazon.
	We haven't been blocked yet, which is good.
	So yeah, I mean, to to me, it's it's it's a hugely important story.
	I think this is a you know a massively undertold story for for clear reasons.
	There's a lot of reasons why people don't want to talk about this.
	I don't want to don't want to get to the bottom of uh what's going on, the origins of Christianity.
	Um, I mean, a lot of the stuff that we're dealing with, at least that I'm dealing with in the book isn't really theological issues.
	I'm not arguing about the theology or God's uh power and you know his existence and so forth.
	It's more just the historical facts, right?
	What we know, what documentation we have, what we do not have, and what we can plausibly infer from the data that we have and that we don't have.
	And and it and it really shows that something is rotten at the core of the traditional Jesus story.
	I mean, it's just it's just basically impossible that you have a miracle working son of God.
	I mean, a literal God who comes to earth for crying out loud, raising people from the dead, walking on water, all the all the nifty miracles that it's attributed to him, and and that you know, there's no record, there's no documentation, there's no contemporary uh contemporaneous evidence.
	Uh, no one writes anything for or against one way or the other for for decades after these things supposedly happened.
	Um I mean, it's just in addition to the fact that the miracles, as you say, are basically violations of laws of nature.
	Um, even if something amazing happened, you know, we don't they don't really know what was a law of nature back then.
	Something amazing could have happened, but there's no documentation of that either.
	So we have almost no reason to even believe that a Jesus character even existed.
	I suspect he did because that makes a hoax that much better if there was an actual rabbi that was at the core of the story.
	So that was my presumption.
	Even that is on pretty thin ice, but but you know, I'm willing to go that far.
	Let's presume there was a rabbi, he was a preacher, he was an agitator, got in trouble with Roman authorities, got himself crucified, and then got you know, the body is buried somewhere in some some tomb and may still be there today.
	So that's that's the little bit of truth, I think that's at the core of that story.
	That everything else comes from from decades later, comes from Paul and his followers who have uh have a real incentive to spin uh uh a tale uh to Jewish benefit.
	And that's really what my book is about.
	Yeah, I want to hear the whole story.
	Uh how the gospels came to be written.
	Uh figures like Jeremiah, if you have any insight.
	I have a friend who says he was a complete genocidal lunatic and wrote several of the books, and that they've had this uh pernicious influence.
	I've long held the belief that merging the old testament with the new is uh calamitous historical blunder of a magnitude that's virtually incalculable, and that it should not have happened, and that the world would have been far better off without that kind of merger.
	And the even theological incoherence it generates.
	If you presume this is supposed to be one and the same God, the old Testament, he got a vengeance, revenge, slaughter, genocide, the God of the new, a God of forgiveness, compassion, love, mercy.
	I mean, they're irreconcilable unless God gets a frantic.
	So, you know, I I think there's something very wrong that happened way back when that was had un the most profound consequences for world history as a consequence.
	Your thoughts.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, I I mean, we have to keep things straight, right?
	The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible, right?
	Pure and simple.
	It was written by Jews, for Jews, about Jews.
	That's all it was.
	It was a Jewish Judeocentric book.
	It was their theology, their history, their stories of how to dominate the people in the region.
	That's all it was.
	It's a Jewish Bible.
	Um, And that's that's sort of one standalone document.
	It's got ludicrous stories and ridiculous origin stories and all the stuff that you would expect to show up, you know, from 500 BC or even older.
	So yeah, you know, just take it as that uh as what it is.
	It was a it's uh it's a document that's by foreign about Jews, and and that's that's it.
	Uh when they talk about you know the dominion and loving your neighbor and all those nice little, you know, that did the Ten Commandments.
	That's all just for Jews.
	That's relates to Jews, has no bearing on a Gentile at all.
	Never was intended to, uh, was never written that way, was never interpreted that way ever.
	Yeah, when it was you know, for hundreds of years when that thing existed.
	So um, so you got to set that aside, right?
	And then later you come with with the Jesus story, which is which is a whole new ball game.
	And that has to be set in the context of the Roman conquest of Palestine, right?
	The Romans moved in in 63 BC, they threw the Jews out of power, the Jewish groups were incensed.
	Uh, they did everything they could to fight back.
	They they did, you know, renegade guerrilla actions and they launched the little militant uh forays and they tried to kill individual Roman centurions, and yeah, they did everything they could to try to fight back for the Romans to uh to get back into power to drive them out, basically.
	And and you know, that's that's the context in which Paul comes along in the year 33.
	This is uh supposedly, well, I'll follow the traditional chronology.
	Year 33, it says three years after the crucifixion, and he decides he's gonna write a story about a uh Jesus who's the Son of God and here for to is here to save every non-Jew in the world, right?
	So um, so he starts writing his minimalist theology, and that's what you see in the letters from Paul, which is the bulk of the New Testament.
	It's just basically the the traditional 13 letters of Paul, and then the four gospels and a few other miscellaneous pieces.
	That's what the New Testament is.
	And if you just look at the letters from Paul, it's a super minimalist theology.
	He's just saying, hey, there is this guy Jesus.
	He was uh, you know, he was a divine being, he died uh for your sins, and you know, he's here to save you and just believe him and and then all will be well.
	I mean, there's there's no quotes from what Jesus said, there's no Jesus theology, there's no words of wisdom, there's no mention of the gospels, because the gospels did not exist in Paul's lifetime.
	In his entire lifetime, there were no gospels.
	Paul lived uh was roughly born about the year zero and died apparently in the year 65 or 70, right before the uh the uh rebellion in in Jerusalem.
	So um, yeah, all you see is a super stripped-down theology in the letters of Paul.
	He's trying to build a church, he's trying to attract suck in the gentiles to a new sort of a theology based on a Jewish rabbi named Jesus, based on the Jewish God Jehovah.
	And he's just trying to get the Gentiles uh kind of onto onto his side ideologically and against the uh the Roman uh pantheism, uh the Roman, the Roman worldview.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
	It's very interesting.
	You suggest that those Ten Commandments and all that were just for the Jewish community, that the Goyam, the non-Jews weren't intended to be covered in others.
	They weren't actually supposed to be universal, I suppose.
	There's simply to be it here too within the Jewish community.
	I think that's major all by itself.
	So exactly.
	That's that exactly.
	Yeah, that's that's that's that's people got to keep that key.
	It's not like the Old Testament, New Testament is just one continuous document that's all right, you know, that all relates to those two completely different documents, right?
	And then an entirely uh, you know, pernicious document that was written, you know, constructed after the fact, backfilling data, you know, uh back predicting uh prophecies uh to serve their purposes, to to try to manipulate and deceive the Gentiles.
	That's really what we see in the New Testament.
	Or any thoughts you'd like to toss into the hat here.
	Well, I was gonna say, uh, you're probably uh popular uh speaking guest at uh Baptist uh picnics, I would imagine.
	So yeah.
	I'm I'm I'm Available for booking, just contact me and I'm I'll come.
	You know, it it jives nicely with where I come from, which you know, in terms of you know, like the broad category of white nationalism, and we I've taken a fairly dim view of Christians for a long time.
	In fact, I may have told Jim this before, but I've mentioned it on air on different shows that I've been on in another network too as well.
	That I kind of missed the days of RBN when I used to I didn't start out with the intent, but I used to go back and forth and really in many cases mock a lot of these Christian callers because there's a heavy, you know, Christian component of RBN listeners, and some of them are are literally uh retarded.
	I mean, and this is sort of reinforces my experience in life, you know, because I've been around, you know, so-called Christians.
	I was born a race Catholic, and I I like to joke that we we Catholics even make fun of Christians because you know, because we're kind of a different breed, right?
	But uh yeah, I've encountered lots and lots of Christians, including in many cases wanting to date some very, you know, Christian women because of many attractive features about them.
	But in the end, I I found often that they were just vacuous, you know.
	And uh I just uh couldn't couldn't jive with my uh you know, my my outlook and my intellect.
	Well, it's it's a cult.
	I mean, that's what the Romans called it.
	They literally called it a cult because it was a mindless, you know, belief system of just allegiance, you know, and it required no thinking of any kind.
	It was it required anti-thinking, really, that's what it was.
	So I I think in a sense that's what it is today.
	You got Christians who just believe the stupidest things, and and uh, you know, it assumes a cult-like per uh persona there.
	I'll tell you the stupidest thing I heard, and then we can go on with the show, but this was a caller uh to RBN.
	This is probably a couple years, two, three years ago, and I I was on a show with another uh uh co-host or host, uh Giuseppe, who Jim knows well.
	We were doing a show every Sunday night.
	And uh, you know, typically our shows covered uh, you know, the the evil evildoers of the world, and we know who they are and you know, the kind of things they were doing and the way they were manipulating us, and a caller called in a very well-known guy who called many times and expressed overall his uh his Christianity, and he actually said that all this evil in the world just demonstrates the greater glory of God.
	He actually said that on the air, and I literally I I didn't lose it, but I just go, what the hell are you talking about?
	You know, so that's right.
	I mean, they they take the most absurd things and they'll just say, Well, that's proof of the will of God.
	I know it's just stupidity.
	Yes, stupidity and incoherence is the will of God.
	Okay, there that's a nice God to have, right?
	I mean, I uh if I was if I was in a court of law under oath, I'd swear that that happened.
	Go ahead, Jim.
	Just uh right myself from some uh Ballsmark Hosig remarks, I appreciate all my callers, all my audience RBN, whether the Christian Jewish I have Christian, Jewish and Muslim friends, and I respect them all for their beliefs, which they're utterly entitled to hold however much I may not share those beliefs, but I'm gonna say the only time I was involved in organized religion was in junior high and high school.
	My mother had committed suicide after having divorced from my father, married a man it was ill-faded, and my my wonderful brother and I went back to live with our father and then stepmother.
	Jerry had uh one son by their second marriage, uh my father's second marriage, and was pregnant with another.
	They thought it was good for feeling me to get involved in organized religion.
	I was just coming into junior high school, and so when junior high and high school, I was involved in the St. James Episcopal Church, a youth program.
	I sang in the choir, I was an acolyte, I gave sermons on you, Sunday.
	I was ahead of the young people's fellowship.
	I wasn't even a delegate of the 14th World Convention on Christian Education in 19 uh 58, held in Tokyo, Japan, where I mentioned on a previous show I went to Chinese communist head uh the Japanese communist headquarters to obtain information from to see if What we're being told about the communists were true or not.
	I've still got those documents.
	Probably made the CI's list at that point in time.
	But the fact is, I was always baffled by whether we were talking about one God or three, this father, this son, the Holy Ghost.
	How does that all add up?
	I could never reconcile it.
	And I don't know that it is capable of reconciliation.
	It is a theological issue.
	That was my only involvement in organized religion.
	I went off to Princeton, became a philosophy student, you know, and I never had any further engagement with organized religion.
	But I mean, those that period in Junior Highland High School, however, was very positive.
	They had a great program.
	It was beneficial to me in many different ways.
	And I I don't begrudge it at all.
	I appreciate it.
	David, your thoughts.
	Yeah, well, we have to keep in mind.
	Again, when they constructed the New Testament, this new theology, they they drew from many different traditions, including Greek and Roman and Pagan traditions.
	So there is a lot of sort of philosophical wisdom, if you will, that was pulled into this new theology.
	It was just it was just put in the package that would turn out to be a hoax.
	So that it's not that the ideas are necessarily bad.
	I mean, you know, love your neighbor and you know forgiveness and so forth.
	Okay, I mean, those things are sort of intrinsically valuable, but those are drawing from from uh older traditions, and that's what Paul and the gospel writers did.
	On the Trinity, it's actually interesting because first of all, there's no mention of the Trinity anywhere in the in the New Testament at all.
	That was a post-New Testament interpretation that there were three in one.
	And the other interesting thing is is the Holy Spirit, when you look at that word in the Greek of the New Testament, it was the word pneuma, and pneuma it was an ancient Greek uh Greek uh concept for a spirit that dates to 400, 500 BC.
	So the so clearly Paul and the gospel writers were drawing from Greek philosophy.
	They drew from this idea of the pneuma, which was a which was a spirit-like entity that pervaded reality, and and they just stole it and they gave it a name, call it the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit, and then they worked it into the Bible.
	I mean, all those ideas are already there.
	Uh, they just they just didn't tell you where they came from.
	Yeah, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
	I don't know, Paul.
	You want to add another thought?
	Yeah, no, I find this absolutely fascinating.
	I've always enjoyed this sort of history or what I call you know, the deeper dive that of course we really never get.
	In other words, Christians never really get, Catholics never get.
	And having said that, I'll just add a little bit to what you said, Jim, to bring some what I call color in into a color commentary.
	Is that I personally believe, because I experienced it, yeah.
	I went to Catholic school.
	I, you know, I am very thankful for my Catholic education, which I believe was a very solid foundation for going into the much more lax public school system.
	Um, but I believe, as a friend of mine once said that as a what you would call a cultural software, that overall Christianity is is a very good thing.
	And I have a lot of fondness for uh call Catholicism and for you know, the Mass, the Latin Mass, and all these things that I you went to you don't understand them when you're a child, obviously.
	And it's it's it's better off to sort of be maybe horn swoggled a little bit when you're a kid and then later on outgrow it than to have never uh experienced what I think is um or can be uh the good derived from that.
	You know, I there's no there's no equivalency to, for example, Santa Claus and all that sort of thing.
	But I honestly feel that European tradition, you know, American tradition, uh, Christianity, Catholicism is a good thing overall.
	But of course, I find all this discussion fascinating today.
	Good, good.
	Yeah, I would I would object to that one because I think all the benefit, all the beneficial things, all the good things that you see in Catholicism or Christianity come from older traditions, they're coming from Greek and Roman pagan traditions.
	So just go to the sources, don't take the the distorted, you know, Pauli versions of those things.
	The only good stuff is the stuff that was much older than Christianity.
	And and uh yeah, I mean, everything else is just just a hoax and a fraud and a cover for this other stuff.
	So I, you know, I I would have to object to that view.
	I mean, okay, that's that's a that's a very fair point, and yeah, glad glad you said it.
	And obviously, you're much more educated in this than I am for sure.
	Well, yeah, I mean it's an opinion thing, but I mean I understand what you're saying, right?
	So it span upon Paul's influence and his followers and what happened in the gospels.
	We want more.
	Yeah.
	So um, right.
	Um I guess, yeah, just to kind of continue the story, right?
	So um uh yeah, so so Paul was the originator.
	So we we know that uh after the crucifixion, nothing happens for about 20 years.
	There's there's a 20-year void of literally nothing.
	No one writes anything.
	There's no documentation, nothing happens from about the year 30 to about the year 50, from about the years 50 to 70.
	This is when Paul is writing all of his letters.
	We have uh the seven authentic letters, then we have another six that seem to be fraudulently attributed to Paul.
	So there's some early fraud right there in Christianity, even by the experts that they accept that fraud.
	But yeah, nominally, like 13 letters from Paul is written between the years 50 and 70.
	Then the Jews revolt in Jerusalem, the Romans come in, they crush them, they crush the revolt, they destroy the temple.
	And that's when Paul's Paul is dead, he dies about that time, and his followers decide they're gonna write a better story of this Jesus character that Paul began in his lifetime.
	So they flesh out the story of Jesus as a man.
	This never existed until the year 70, when the first gospel was written, the gospel of Mark.
	Um, so it wasn't in Paul, it wasn't documented anywhere.
	These guys just create a story of a of a baby who was born in a major to manger to Virgin Mary and the Star of Bethlehem.
	All this stuff is just invented out of whole cloth around the year 70, uh, beginning with Mark, and then shortly thereafter with uh Matthew and Luke.
	Um, so they're what they're doing is they're fleshing out, they're trying to humanize this Jesus character that was at the core of Paul's hoax.
	And they're they're just embellishing it, they're they're coming up with uh they're drawing in, like say little wisdom traditions, they're they're having it give these wise sayings and the Sermon on the Mount and all that stuff.
	That's simply did not exist until the year 70 and 80 AD.
	Those are you know, decades after they were supposedly happened.
	Um so this is all just being fleshed out sort of real time by these Jewish writers of the four of the four uh gospels.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	Tell me about the fraudulent.
	What was the point of the fraudulent?
	What did they want to attribute to Paul that Paul hadn't said himself, but they wanted to work into the historical matrix?
	Yeah, right.
	Well, I guess we don't really know the uh all the rationale.
	Somebody's, you know, if Paul is getting some influence, he's building the church.
	Jesus didn't build a church, Paul built a church, and and Paul was gaining some influence, and apparently at some time, maybe much later, we actually don't really know how much later.
	Uh some people decided to, you know, gin up some bogus letters from this guy, Paul, and then they then they then they added some details that they thought were important.
	You know, I haven't done a detailed comparison between the so-called actual and the so-called fraudulent letters.
	That would be an interesting little uh sort of side project to do.
	But um, yeah, I mean, they're just trying, they're trying to add the details that Paul didn't do because Paul had such a stripped-down theory, they're they're trying to flesh that out as best they can.
	So we see it in the fraudulent letters of Paul.
	We see it in the anonymous writers of the gospels for crying out loud.
	Those guys were anonymous.
	There's four names attached there, but those mean nothing.
	We don't know who those people are, when they lived, really.
	We we know very roughly when they were written, but nothing about the authors other than that they were very well versed in the old testament because they cite the old testament repeatedly.
	So they were clearly Jewish writers' knowledge of Jewish theology, and they were drawing that into this new Jesus story.
	So uh yeah, we see more sort of you know, fraudulent uh deceptive activity to create this new theology.
	So those citations of the old testament have been part of the motivation for putting them together when they're bound.
	The old and the new.
	Yeah, I I think I think maybe in a sense they wanted to hide that, right?
	Because they wanted they wanted to reach the Gentiles.
	They knew they weren't going to reach them with a Jewish Bible because that would be nonsense.
	So they had to create something new that was sympathetic to Jews, sympathetic to the rabbi Jesus, sympathetic to Jehovah, the Jewish God.
	They had to create that sort of story without sort of explicitly citing the Old Testament because that would not fly.
	So they had to create a sort of a new kind of a story, weaving in these ideas, these Jewish ideas and Jewish values.
	That's what happens.
	These Jewish values are drawn from the Old Testament, woven into a new story, which is this new testament, and we see it in repeatedly in the four gospels.
	Enumerate what you take to be those Jewish values that make such a difference here.
	Yeah, so I mean, we we see them in the Old Testament.
	It's this idea of dominion, right?
	That God put us in charge, that we are better than uh the rest of the life on earth.
	Um that we can dominate, that uh that we can know the will of God, that we need to enact the will of God forcibly upon people, uh, the sort of belligerence, the sort of uh yeah, yeah.
	I mean, you you see those kind of ideas which are pulled from Old Testament, and then there's kind of rolled into New Testament ideas.
	So uh so yeah, the Talmetic doctrine of Jewish superiority, and that all the other races uh really owe everything to the Jews, uh, all their sacred treasure, even their lives, and the Jews can kill non-Jews with impunity, even if it comes to it.
	But God forbid that any non-Jew kill a Jew.
	That's it.
	That's absolutely verboten.
	I would I would like to ask the guest about this concept of uh original sin or sin, right?
	Is that also a quote Jewish value?
	Original sin.
	So you're born into sin, right?
	Right.
	So yeah, I mean, right, there's a there's a tremendous guilt complex in Judaism, right?
	So there's there's this constant feeling of guilt and atoning for guilt, and you know, you see it in the in the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament about the need to absolve oneself of sin, and there's blood sacrifice, and you know, I wrote a whole uh yeah, I read several pieces of the talking about sort of the importance of blood sacrifice to absolve yourself of these of the sin, right?
	So this idea, this idea of guilt, what's that right back after this break timing revolutionary at freedom flips.com will be right back after this message.
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	And now we return you to your host.
	I have a musical interlude as a token of appreciation of a party.
	Actually, a listener to RBN who suggested I interview David about these subjects.
	What the very first time I heard this song on the radio, I nearly fell out of my chair.
	It's absolutely wonderful, a classic called uh drop kick me Jesus.
	listen to this Drop kick me cheese to the gold post.
	And over in neither left nor to ride.
	Straight through the heart of the rich surprise.
	Drop kick midge to the gold post.
	Make me oh make me Lord more than I am.
	Make me a piece in your master game plan.
	Free from the earth tempestion below.
	I've got the will, Lord.
	If you got to drop kick meet the gold post.
	And over in neither left nor right.
	Straight through the heart of the riches and rise.
	Drop kick me Gold Post.
	Bring on the brothers who've gone on before.
	And all the sisters knocked on your door.
	All the departed dear loved ones of mine.
	Stick them up front in the offensive line.
	Drop gigmities to the gold post.
	And over in neither left nor to run.
	Straight through the heart of the righteous surprise.
	Drop gig means to the gold post.
	A low live bench warmer.
	I'm contented to be.
	Until the time when you have need.
	The flesh on the big scoreboard shines from on high.
	The big super bowl.
	We up in sky.
	Drop king the Jeez to the go post.
	And over in the left note of the right.
	Straight through the heart of the right surprise.
	drop kick me jesus And over in the live known.
	Straight through the heart.
	I was actually very pleased to have the opportunity or the occasion to play that because I've always found it to be quite charming.
	I mean, I've always liked this song.
	What to say about it?
	David, David, your thoughts are Paul.
	Go right ahead.
	Yeah, cute.
	That's a cute one.
	I hadn't I hadn't heard that one.
	I heard the phrase, but I didn't hadn't heard the song before.
	But yeah, you know, it's it's more of the silly kind of uh, it's really kind of juvenile sort of stuff, right?
	You know, you're yeah, you're praying for for salvation, right?
	And and uh, you know, yeah, you know, keeping it.
	I just like the merger of you know, uh popular religion with popular sports, you know, and all the exactly right.
	And then we're gonna we're gonna write right.
	The theology isn't good enough.
	So we're gonna draw on the old football analogy.
	I've got the will, God, Lord, if you've got the toe.
	Paul, you're I think I think it's absolutely blasphemous, and the the uh singers and songwriters should be uh put up before the righteous uh secret committee of uh of Catholic transgressions.
	Crucified boiled it boiled boiled in oil after they've been put on the rack.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	No, I I really like it, it's charming.
	I said the very first time I heard it, I couldn't believe my ears.
	I could not believe my ears.
	If you've got the toe, you know.
	Yeah, I love right.
	I will I love it, I love it.
	Uh David, go right ahead with your story, the gospels that grow the church and all that.
	Yeah.
	Um yeah, so like I say, you know, the the the first the first phase of the whole process was Paul.
	He he kicks things off and he moves, he builds a church.
	Uh yeah, he gets an idea a few years after the crucifixion about this Jesus guy, he makes him into a son of God and writes these letters and builds a church, and then he dies, and there's a revolution, then the gospel writers decide they need to flesh out the Jesus story.
	So around the year 70 is when we think the gospel of Mark was written.
	That was the first one, the shortest one.
	Um, a lot of details that never existed in history before suddenly show up in this gospel.
	Uh, about 15 years later, around the year 85, we think, is when the next two uh Matthew and Luke were written, they're very similar.
	We know from studies of those two gospels that there's a lot of commonality.
	Uh some some similarities, some differences, but they cover similar events.
	It's like it's like the authors were sort of working together from a basic core story, and they gave different spins on those stories, and those appear about the year 85.
	And then sometime in the early 90s, we have the Gospel of John, which is generally considered the last written gospel.
	It's the most intellectual, really draws from philosophical ideas, and we see that uh repeatedly in the Gospel of John.
	Um, but again, you know, for much of this time, no, no one's saying anything about the Christians.
	That was one of the striking facts that I noted in my in my book, The Jesus Hoax was, you know, no one writes about Jesus in his lifetime, no one writes about him for the 20 or 30 years after him until the until the uh revolution uh rebellion in the year 70.
	No one that besides these these handful of Jews writes about Jesus for another you know 20 years after the rebellion.
	Um, and then suddenly you have Josephus, who Was a Jewish uh writer Turncoat uh converted to the Roman uh empire uh hierarchy, and uh he writes uh supposedly one paragraph that mentions Jesus around the year 93 in his book, The Antiquities of the Jews.
	And this is the first non-Christian mention that there's anything like a Jesus that even exists, and that's the year 93.
	So this is you know, decades and decades after he was born, after the miracles, after the crucifixion.
	Uh and all you get is one paragraph by some other guy who says, Yeah, there's this this Christian movement that's kind of starting to brew it's brew itself and grow itself.
	And you know, then you go another to if you look for another mention, you don't go all the way to Tacitus, who was a famous Roman historian in the year 115, and he's documenting uh some elements of the histories at that time, and he includes just a couple of sentences on on the Christians and and and uh you know, sort of what they were causing trouble and they were agitators, and he sort of knew that they were basically Jews at the at the in the early years.
	And um, I mean, again, it's you know, decades approaching a century after the time of Jesus before anybody even mentions this guy.
	I mean, it's impossible that they got anything right, anything that they know is was true, they couldn't verify anything.
	It w it was all had to be constructed from hearsay and and and you know, just manufactured evidence.
	That's that's the only way they could have happened.
	Yeah, so when we search for the historical Jesus, we have very rudimentary, fragmentary, imperfect, incomplete, almost non-existent data.
	I mean, it's fascinating.
	You got a whole religion built on basically mythology.
	Exactly.
	It's it really is it's mythology, it's a mishmash of ideas.
	Like I say, there's some interesting and valuable ideas in there, but those came from the Greeks and the Romans.
	And and so the you know, the writers were clever.
	They were drawing from existing ideas of that they knew that were out there in the world, and then they wove them into their little story about this Jesus character, uh, to give it some credibility.
	But uh, but yeah, I mean in terms of actual evidence, actual contemporaneous evidence.
	There's nothing for for decades and decades.
	It's impossible that they got anything right, that they knew anything of what they were talking about, they couldn't confirm anything.
	Everybody who would have known the guy was long dead by the time this stuff starts showing up in writing.
	It's it's uh just uh yeah, it's uh it's it's a ludicrous story from start to finish, and yet we believe it's the literal word.
	Every word is absolutely correct the way it's written.
	That's that's that's nonsense.
	We you know, there's a lot of uh, shall we say, parallels to the world that we live in today?
	I mean, talk about people believe and mythology, right?
	I mean, what we could cover everything, right?
	In other words, the they they wanted to get a central uh bank of issue to uh stop all the booms and busts in the economy, right?
	Or uh, you know what these uh these injections were going to give you will prevent disease.
	Or how about the carcinogenic drugs that we're going to administer to you uh are going to uh be called chemotherapy and they're going to kill cancer cells.
	And on and on.
	It's like everything these people do.
	It's uh it's just uh yeah, anyway.
	Go on.
	Yeah, right.
	There's there's a strong element of faith in a lot of this stuff where they're asking you just just believe it, just believe us, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, we we have we have no evil intentions, believe us.
	Yeah, okay, right.
	That's that's uh that's caused uh disaster time and time again over two thousand years at least.
	Yes.
	Very good.
	Yeah.
	Jim, I didn't know that you were gonna have such a uh an anti-uh semite on today.
	I'm I'm offended.
	Well, wait a minute, who's uh that?
	I I'm I'm attacking the the Jews who who who they I mean they had a story, they had a rationale, they were looking out for their own best interest.
	That's all the Jews ever do.
	I I that's just fact.
	I there's no it's an ins, it's an inside joke.
	Jim Jim and I go way, way back.
	Okay.
	I've I've I've I've dragged uh the whole truth, nothing but the truth guy.
	I just want to figure out what the hell is going on.
	Truth is far more fascinating than fiction, actually.
	And if you I mean Charlie Kirk case is a perfect illustration, it's a very complex hoax.
	Here we're talking about a Jesus hoax.
	We got a Kirkhoa, we got a moon hoax, we got all kinds.
	I mean, they go on and on and on, and then kind of in the role of being a hoax buster, you know, not a gym Did you did you see that post that uh Brute?
	I don't know if Bruce shared it with you, but he sent it to me where there's a video of the guy who was asking the question to Charlie Kirk, the last guy, and he was rehearsing his reaction to the crazy.
	It's like, you know, come on.
	I'm sorry to say Candace has now lost her credibility.
	She's going on about the medical records, and they're actually we're now two shots, and there was a bullet lodge in his spine.
	I mean, it's all ridiculous.
	I'm sorry.
	I've been such a fan.
	You know, I hate to see an idol crumble.
	I've been such a fan of Candace, but she's really blown it big time.
	I mean, I'll be covering the story in greater detail this afternoon.
	You need to have her on the show, Jim.
	Uh I don't know if she'd do it.
	I'd love to do you know what I thought what could be fun, Jim.
	I don't know if you have his contact info, but we could have another show with uh with Mike Huckabee, and we could go back and forth.
	I don't I only have contempt for Mike Huck.
	I know I just we could put we could postulate uh you know the these ideas to him, see what his reaction is, you know.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh God.
	We don't want to cut off David though from I'm there's more to the story, but the church grew in the world.
	Yeah, no, no, no.
	And where we left off, just as a reminder, right before the break at the top of the hour was uh we we were talking about original sin and the this whole guilt thing, and I don't know if you would fully flesh that out or not.
	If you want to I like the fact that this uh there's a lot of guilt in Judaism, I think that's fascinating.
	Go go for it, David.
	Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	Uh yeah, guilt and sin are intrinsically Judaic.
	I mean, that's that's built into the old testament stories and the need for absolution and the need for blood sacrifice.
	That that's that's what you see over and over again in the old testament, and it's it's projected into the Talmud and the Shul Chanaruk.
	Um but but you know that it's Jewish because it doesn't come from other sources.
	If you look at Greek philosophy, uh, you know, I've studied for many years.
	You know, you look at the Roman ideology, Roman philosophy, you know, you don't see those ideas.
	There's not this idea that you're you're guilty and you're sinful and you have to atone for this sin and there's divine powers at work.
	I mean, that's absolute nonsense.
	That does not really exist.
	That's that was a Jewish construction, and then that gets projected as a motivating force as a malevolent force uh with within uh Judaism and then later within Christianity.
	So it's a kind of a it's kind of a guilt tool.
	I mean, Nietzsche was really good about this.
	He was writing about how there's this whole guilt tool of sin that's really used to exploit people's feelings and their fears, you know, about death, which is legitimate, okay, right?
	Nobody knows what's going to happen after death.
	So we're gonna use that fear and we're gonna and we're gonna construct a story of sin and suffering and hell and so forth, and we're gonna manipulate you using these ideas to our benefit.
	I mean, it's it's just it's just horrendous.
	They're taking legitimate fears that people have about getting old and sick and dying, and then we're gonna we're gonna use that against you uh to serve our ends.
	It's utterly malicious, really.
	And you know, to think about too, like again, just to to inculcate into people from a very early age that you are essentially a you're you're fallen, or you're you're flawed, and you're you're you're basically lucky to be under the grace of God because of his forgiveness because you have a sinful nature.
	I mean, all this is very powerful manipulation, yes.
	Absolutely, and it's just 100% judaic.
	It does does not exist, it's not there in Greek philosophy.
	It's it's a it's in a construction that they came up with to manipulate us.
	And you, Paul, as a young Catholic must have been subjected inundated in that.
	Oh, I was I was a mess, like a lot of kids, you know.
	But I mean, there's other factors as well, you know.
	Your parents, we all we all survive our childhood.
	Sometimes, you know, it's a little bit more idyllic than others.
	I overall, even as a young adult, I was always fairly uh, you know, grateful for the way things were, even though you know, obviously I didn't have the best relationship with my mom or my dad, and you know, I experienced bullying as a kid, and but then you you know you get older, you realize everybody has has gone through these things, and it's sort of the process of of of life.
	But yeah, you know uh making kids, which and it works.
	Making kids feel guilty and fearful is not an altogether healthy thing.
	I don't think it's altogether 100% bad.
	Because let's face it, there's a lot of kids out there that are just a little sociopaths, you know.
	But it is a control mechanism, isn't it, Paul?
	Well I would imagine that's a heavy part of it.
	But again, when you look at from and I I I've not dived into it as much as the people that I've many of the shows I've listened to.
	But I mean, you know, in the so-called white nationalist sphere, you know, so I'm sure that uh your guests has heard such terms as uh the cuckyanity and the Christ insanity, you know, for the more uh the coarse uh renditions of that uh I remember the first time I I heard dead Jew on a stick and I I couldn't help but chuckle you know I was not fully on board yet but with the first time I heard you know these people speaking so mockingly of Christianity and
	using that term dead Jew on a stick, I just thought to myself, I just wonder, I wonder.
	And of course, later on, I would become, you know, fairly converted.
	That's why I'm very open and on board today with everything your guest is saying.
	Yeah, you know, that's a good point.
	Because, you know, you get a lot of mocking comments just because people think it's silly or stupid, and they'll make jokes out of it, right?
	But there's a real reason to sort of be highly skeptical or worse.
	And that's what I think is important that people aren't missing, that they're missing.
	They need to know sort of the background, the context, that, you know, the Jewish misanthropy, that they have this longstanding, you know, hatred of Gentiles, and they were at the core of this religion.
	I mean, that adds all the details that are missing behind these crude jokes, you know, and then it kind of makes sense.
	Hey, look, there's a rationale here why we should be super skeptical, you know, and try to be, yeah, highly suspicious of what this story is trying to do for us.
	Right.
	And I would like to add a little of my, what I call, I guess, testimony here, and I'm sure I speak for probably millions like me, that, you know, it's a process you go through, the deconditioning.
	And I remember as a young man in my 20s, I was working with a guy, you know, he and I were kind of like more like partners.
	We spent so much time together.
	And he was very anti-religious or anti-Christian.
	And of course, I was still I was never very devout, but of course I absorbed it all.
	That's why I used the word inculcate, because that's really what it does.
	And I remember multiple times, if the discussion ever came up or he heard somebody else talk about Christianity or Jesus, he would always go like, oh, F, F him, F Jesus.
	It's all made-up bullshit.
	I remember one time we're driving in the truck together.
	We're working together, right?
	And he makes the finger, the middle finger gesture, and he flips off upward, like towards the sky.
	He goes, you know, F, you know, Jesus, or F, you know, God, whatever.
	And I remember just cringing, going, no, no, come on, don't.
	do that man don't do that you don't know what you're doing.
	I mean because literally it just was still part of me it's like I was really I won't say fearful but I just was really uncomfortable with him doing that because I thought no no no no no you don't want to do that.
	That's no good.
	And that's that's how powerful uh this uh cocation is I mean absolutely you're right it's it's it's really kind of a brainwashing technique and you really you really react you know viscerally to those kind of things but and you know and and it's you have to say more than it's well this Jesus guy it's all bullshit.
	I mean in a sense it is but but you got to do better than that because then you just sound like a naysayer or a or a nutcase or something you don't really know you don't really know what's behind it right that's why it's really important to sort of I'm sort of always asking people to do a little digging you don't have to be a you know do a PhD level work here just get a couple of good books or get the Jesus hoax book and and you know look fill your fill yourself in in some basic facts.
	So if somebody says oh this Jesus story is bullshit at least you sort of know what's going on you you have some rationale why that probably is true and how that came about.
	That's a lot better than just dishing off little insults and little quips right which sounds kind of kind of ignorant and stupid in its own right.
	And especially in the presence of someone like at the time I I mean, there probably was a subconscious desire for it.
	You want it to be true.
	In other words, the whole, you know, upward, like up in heaven, there's nothing there.
	He would always say, Oh, there's nothing up there.
	There's nothing there.
	And of course, that just goes against, you know, because we sort of had this belief, right?
	In other words, oh, it's gonna be nice.
	It's gonna be the gates of heaven, and there's like the fluffy clouds, and I mean, look, they they do it with pictures.
	I mean, when you think about it, they do so much with animation.
	Very similar to the whole COVID thing.
	Remember, I used to point out, and Jim probably remembers this, so the all of these these these uh depictions of COVID and whatever, whether it was in uh print and the newspapers or TV or whatever was always animation.
	It was always drawings.
	And I thought, you know, anyway, I just thought that was pertinent.
	We get back to Marx's observation that religion is the opiate of the masses, you know, keep the workers content for an afterlife.
	They may suffer in this life, but they're gonna be rewarded in the afterlife, and the thought there is no reward, all you got is in this life is too much.
	Uh he thought for most of the handling that it was uh psychological saporific that it was beneficial in a way to endure the hardships humanity endures every single day.
	Right, right.
	In other words, I'm I'm sure Jim, you felt the same thing that many in humanity have felt in their lives.
	Sometimes it's like, is this it?
	Is this all there is?
	That's that's pretty pretty normal.
	I don't find it, I accept it.
	That's why you gotta make everything count, you know.
	Spend as much time as you can with your family, your friends that people you love it care about because that's all there is.
	David, go right ahead.
	Yeah, no, I I you know that's one of the one of the evils of the Christian stories.
	It makes you put value in the time when you're not going to exist because you're dead, right?
	The real the true value supposedly is in the afterlife, and this life is just a temporal realm of you know, just kind of get through it and do the best you can, and and then everything will be just wonderful right after you're dead, and it's conveniently no one can check that or prove that.
	So uh yeah, I mean, uh, but yeah, I I mean it really is malicious because it it lets you write off this life, which is the real life, the life that you're gonna have, your one and only life, and you're gonna write that off and say, Well, I'm just gonna get through it, and I'm not gonna I'm gonna you know, gonna try to make it as easy as possible.
	I'm not gonna make any waves, and I just want to get through it because then I'm gonna be saved and everything's gonna be wonderful.
	And that that's that's uh absolutely malicious story to convey to people.
	Would you like to comment on uh I'm not I don't want to derail the show here, Jim, but I think you might find it interesting.
	Would you like to comment on the whole near-death experience and the whole you know, people leaving their body and you know, having these experiences and being accurate, supposedly in the detail and then coming back in?
	I mean, do you have thoughts and feelings about that?
	You must have uh it's entirely possible, but it's not it's not a theological afterlife.
	I mean, if yeah, yeah, if if there's some kind of afterlife, then that's where everybody's going, and it doesn't matter if you're good, bad, indireffer or whatever.
	I mean, if that's the that's if there's some kind of I mentioned I mention it because not not in any way to validate, you know, Christian beliefs or you know, that sort of thing, but it's it's so interesting, and there's so many, not just one or two.
	Uh are you familiar with the work of Daniel Brinkley and his uh his uh books and so forth.
	No, I I only know incidentally some of that.
	Oh my goodness, man.
	I'm telling you.
	Well, I first heard him on Art Bell, and uh, you know, he was struck by lightning.
	He was actually in his home back in the day, you know, landlines and all that.
	He was actually talking on the telephone of all things, and lightning struck the house.
	And what happened to him, he said, actually, this is amazing when you think about it of oh, how much damage the fact that he actually was able to live.
	He died supposedly temporarily, and they brought him back, and he was messed up for a very long time, right?
	But the nails in his shoes melted.
	That's how much uh power he and electricity went through his body, right?
	And uh he was a mess, but the testimony that he gave was unbelievable of what he saw and what he experienced, and he was looking down the classic up above, looking down at his body, being worked on by doctors and being mourned over by his family.
	It was it was very powerful.
	And there's many others like that.
	You're duly skeptical about uh Jesus story, you know, why not this skepticism about this story?
	Well, you know, again, you know, when is it that we stop being skeptical of everything and trust the fact that I'm just saying this is kind of extraordinary, isn't it?
	I mean, well, no, and not not actually melt and nail.
	Yeah, I love it.
	I love it.
	I love it.
	Well uh again, uh these things.
	There's there's several books.
	You might not have delved into this topic, Jim.
	I'm finding this fascinating.
	Okay, aside of you I had not seen before to be continued right after this break.
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	Cheering
	Well, we have another musical interlude and appreciation for the recommendation is from the Jerry Garcia.
	It's the simplest expression.
	This one I'm not so familiar with.
	Oh see to my sisters and my brothers.
	Keep the faith when the storm flies in the wind blows.
	Go home at a steady pace.
	One we can all shout together.
	We have overcome.
	We're talking to the Father and the Son When we make it to the promised land.
	All together, little children.
	We don't ever have to worry through this world of trouble.
	We gotta love one another.
	Let us take our fellow man by the hand.
	Try to help him to understand.
	We can all be together forever and ever.
	When we make it to the promised land, our Bible reads, thou shall not be afraid of the terror by night of the airboat ties by chain,
	no for the pestilence, and walketh in the darkness, nor for the destruction that we've been the new day out if we walk together, little children.
	We don't ever have to worry Through this world of trouble We've got to love one another Let us take our fellow man By the hand Tryna help him to understand.
	We can all be together, forever and ever When we make it to the Promised Land Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh
	Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh This Oh Oh Passage Oh Made Oh Oh
	Oh Very Yes Traveling through this We can Yeah Shaking a hand when we make it to the promised land when we make it to the promise land.
	Make it to the promised land, make it to the promise land, children, make it to the promise land, make it to the promise land, make it to the promise land,
	we can all be together forever and ever when we make it to the promised I do include it to the Zionists,
	only they are in title of the promised land.
	I'll have to get back there and shut it off by thinking of your work in there.
	Can I just briefly uh I just want to just respond a little bit?
	I gotta stop it.
	Give me a second.
	OK.
	I've had this problem before.
	I don't I don't hear anything on my end.
	You hear something?
	You can't hear it.
	No, I don't hear anything.
	Yeah, well, we can hear it.
	All right, sure.
	Um now I hear that.
	Yeah.
	But it's very it's in the background.
	There we go.
	There we go.
	Jerry Garcia, I love the guy.
	Go ahead, Paul.
	So, yeah, just as a brief response, I just like again to kind of maybe you know get uh uh get our guests' opinion on the topic because I'm sure he's thought of it, but you said something about that side of me.
	In other words, you were and I I'm kind of surprised at that remark, Tim, because you should know by now that I'm uh I'm very open in many cases, and I've always had a sort of a seeking mind.
	I mean, I'm not alone.
	When I first uh became aware of you, I believe was 2012 because you were speaking at the conference in Santa Clara, right?
	The conspiracy con.
	And that was the twelfth one in a row.
	I went to another one, then they stopped having them.
	So I went to 13 conspiracy conferences in a row.
	Um, as an example also of many cases, they had a related UFO conference, typically uh at different time of the year.
	I think one was in the spring and one was in the fall, that sort of a thing.
	And I probably went to, I don't know, nine or ten different UFO conferences because I thought it was just fascinating.
	And but I remember what somebody said once about this whole the whole notion, the whole UFO thing, and he basically said this.
	It was what it was one of the more well-known uh people in the movement.
	I forget who it was, right?
	But you know, the guy had he had some credentials, some gravitas, and he said essentially if it was to be put in a court of law, right, with with all the rules of evidence, and it was just based upon uh sworn testimony, you know, eyewitness testimony, affidavits, physical evidence.
	The case would be so overwhelming that there was no jury anywhere that wouldn't be convinced of the reality, so-called of the UFO phenomenon.
	And so I look at many things in a similar light, such as the near-death experience, right?
	And and what people have reported.
	And uh again, there's there's books on this you can read.
	You probably have not delved into it, but I came up on talk radio way before the internet, so I used to listen to shows, and they would have uh, you know, they would have guests on similar to today, and a lot of times the guest had written a book, and I would go out and I would buy that book.
	So uh, you know, I'm I'm quite open.
	I'm very convinced this is actually not all there is.
	I don't think it has anything to do with the whole Christian notion uh of things, but I I have to believe based upon what I actually I think I've experienced in my own life that there is a spiritual nature to things, or there's a what people call a life force, an animating force, and that we are given glimpses of it, for example, when we dream or have visions, because there's a notion, all right.
	In other words, where do these dreams and or visions come from?
	Are they completely manufactured inside of your head?
	Or are things like we've all had this experience of ideas pop into our head?
	Well, where are they coming from?
	So I know you're waving, but here's the thing that there's lots and lots of people that think like me, believe like me, and think that you're lacking in this part of your your view of the world, that there is something known as a cosmic consciousness or a universal consciousness, or the I'm not a student of consciousness, you know.
	I mean, I've done a huge amount in the area of the philosophy of mind, The nature of mind, consciousness, cognition, not to mention AI, computer science, and all that.
	The point I'm making is very simple.
	You're such a skeptic about almost everything.
	Things most people take for granted, yet you're buying into a life after life theory.
	And seemingly it's okay, Jim.
	I'm not buying into it.
	And there's somebody you know well that you have on a regular guest, Sophia, and she thinks basically the same way, and she's posted many things.
	Hey, it's okay.
	I know, but she won't even discuss it with you.
	For the but I here's what I'm saying.
	There are people that you know, I won't name any other names, okay.
	But there's multiple people I know won't even discuss it with you because you're so you're such a skeptic and a non-believer.
	I'm telling you, I'm open to things.
	I'm skeptical.
	But let me make Jim, please.
	Just um I'm very particularly skeptical.
	In other words, I'm skeptical of the world of Jewish lies that we're living in, okay.
	This this construct that we're told is real by the powers that be, and we know who the powers that be are, but again, I'm open to other things.
	So, yeah, I mean, there's tremendous amounts of testimony of these uh near death or after life experiences where they die, but then they come back and they talk about all these things, and it's just they're very compelling.
	So they're so they're either all liars or there's some truth to it.
	That's all.
	Paul Paul Paul Paul Paul.
	What truth is there to it?
	What do you mean?
	I mean shut just let me speak.
	You have given I have a guest here.
	Okay, all right.
	I want to give him the opportunity to complete what he has to say today.
	Sure.
	In the finite span we have that remains, okay.
	Now the stuff you're raising is all interesting, and I'm I'd be glad to pursue it greater on another occasion.
	We do know when you're uh oxygen deprived of your brain, which occurs as you're nearing death, or you've got a phenomenon and that sort of thing, which is all part and parcel of the discussion.
	Wow.
	My goodness.
	Paul, you you're going on about a guy who supposedly died and came back.
	Well, that's one testimony, Jim.
	There's there's parents that testify to Paul, and also about the US.
	Stop when you stop me.
	Every time I try to give them this show and other shows, I give a pertinent example, one example.
	You stop me with a wave of your hand and say my name over and over again.
	You haven't looked into this topic.
	You have not.
	Please.
	That's it.
	That's all.
	Yes, I'm not an expert on UFOs, but those are unidentified flying objects.
	Everyone knows they're bazillion.
	I brought the UFO thing as a comparison.
	I'm talking about the origin.
	Paul talking about the after the let me see.
	Let me find you.
	Read read read his book.
	Okay, listen to some of his shows.
	That's just one guy.
	Please go ahead, Dave.
	Yeah, go ahead, David.
	I'm sorry about that.
	Oh, no problem.
	We go we go back a ways.
	This is not the first time Paul and I have had these exchanges.
	I can I can tell, yeah.
	That's okay.
	I mean, yeah, for for my part, I I consider myself a rationalist, right?
	So to me, I like I like to have rational explanations for things.
	That's just how I am.
	Um, I think a lot of that stuff can be rationally explained, you know.
	Uh I haven't gone into the near-death stuff, so I don't have a lot of comment on that one.
	But you know, a lot of the UFO stuff is, yeah, there's all kinds of various phenomena that are that are possible and that they don't always necessarily have to be extraterrestrial cra aircraft, right?
	So um but but uh but I but I haven't done a deep dive into UFO phenomenon, but I'm open-minded about it.
	I've seen videos that purport to be authentic of little greens and you know, and brocha that looked authentic, but you know, I can't claim to any degree of expertise here.
	Please go ahead.
	But but but yeah, you but you know, like like like you, Jim, I've also studied philosophy of mind and and consciousness for many years.
	I wrote this book on panpsychism.
	So, you know, and I think there's a real real basis for thinking that everything is sort of has a level of consciousness to it, including the cosmos.
	I think there's a there's a it's a real rational reality to believe that there is a cosmic consciousness.
	That's not a spiritual thing.
	I have very good rational arguments, and there's been many in the past that that said that such a thing is actually true.
	Well, I better bring it back.
	I mean, I'll look at your stuff on the technology, the subconsciousness, it's great stuff.
	It's interesting.
	Let it let him let him talk, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean you're well, you're right.
	I think we'd have to do a separate show on technology and a separate one on panpsychism.
	That would be interesting.
	But but but yeah, I mean, there's there's some there's some, I guess my point was there's some pretty pretty quote fringy things that actually have a rational basis to them, and and therefore are pretty well grounded in my opinion.
	So that's sort of one piece of it.
	The other piece of it is it is you know, when we talk about conspiracy theories, we have to recognize that pretty much everything is a conspiracy because that's people who are working together for some purpose.
	That's all a conspiracy is, right?
	And it's been it's been turned into a slander term by the powers that be because they they want to cover up various inconvenient facts, and so they're gonna they're gonna dish that out at their convenience as it as it serves their purposes.
	So um, but but all of it, I think for me, all it takes is a couple of really compelling instances of where we've been lied to to to really to really get a healthy dose of skepticism going, right?
	And so to me, that's one of the purposes of the Jesus hoax.
	As you can see, there's really no rational basis for it.
	We have a good rational uh explanation for what's what we have, and we have a better count counter story than we're given in the Bible and in our churches.
	Uh, and it's being covered up because it's inconvenient for Christians and it's inconvenient for Jews.
	Um I think we can see that pretty pretty actively.
	Another another example is the Holocaust.
	So there's another story which rationally doesn't make a lot of sense, but but you can't talk about it because it's inconvenient for for you know the powers that be.
	Um so all it takes is a couple of good stories like that when you when you can say, look, there's rationally those things are are clearly cannot be correct.
	The what the conventional story cannot be right, and there are some malicious powers behind this, these these uh these these incidences, and then it really that really stokes your sense of uh suspicion and and and uh you know uh and makes you skeptical of a lot of things, and probably rightly so, right?
	We don't know when once you've got one or two major stories in history that uh are pretty much proven to be to be fraudulent or hoaxes to too large degree, then then you then you're naturally asking yourself, well, what what else that's going on in history or in the world today is also being covered up, is also being manipulated and is also basically a fraudulent story, right?
	So that's an entirely rational position to take.
	And and I think that's one of the huge values of studying uh the Jesus hoax in particular.
	Really, it really shows you sort of sort of the value of being rationally skeptical and and and really confronting these these these stories and asking for hard evidence and being open-minded about different different possible solutions.
	And also the profundity of the effects of beliefs that are not rooted in evidence or facts or history.
	I mean, it's it's astonishing.
	I think the beliefs that could be broadly characterized as mythological may have more influence on human behavior generally than all the factual objective scientific findings the world is ever compiled cumulatively.
	I mean, it's just astonishing.
	The non-rational overwhelms the rational when it comes to human behavior.
	Go ahead, Paul.
	I was gonna just bring uh one example.
	Maybe it's a movie that you both saw.
	I just think there's a lot of things that make you think about things, right?
	That's that's where I'm coming from.
	So you remember the movie Contact, right?
	Jody Foster, Matthew McConaughey.
	You recall that movie?
	I remember E.T. Okay.
	How about how about you, David?
	You saw the movie Contact.
	I I I know just a little bit about the story.
	I don't think I see.
	Okay, well, there's a great scene in the movie.
	Discuss darn it.
	I'm big on movie references and scenes.
	Well, anyway, there's a great scene in the movie where okay, Jody Foster's playing the scientist, right?
	Matthew McConaughey's playing the the man of you know, the cloth, the man of God, the the spiritual guy, and you know, Jody Foster, I only can you know believe what I could prove, and you know, she's like I said, the scientist in the movie.
	Well, anyway, there's a point where they're they're trying to connect, reach each other, you know, in a way because there's a struggling relationship going on, and Matthew McConaughey can ask her a question.
	He says, Did you love your father?
	And of course, if you saw the movie at the very beginning, you know, show a tremendous bond with her father, and she she lost him at a young age.
	And she says, Well, yes, of course I love my father.
	And he goes, Prove it.
	Now, you know, m a lot of people might not think a lot of that, but it was a very pro profound scene in the movie, and of course, it had its effect on me as well.
	And the points to be made that, for example, if somebody was to tell you about a dream they had, right?
	You have no way of knowing that they had that dream, but they know what it is they experienced.
	So in many cases, that's all we have to go on.
	If we don't, if we're not there in person, is the supposed testimony of others.
	In many cases, it's written down, other times it's not.
	And we're living in a world where essentially we are um we are formed in many ways by the testimony of and the relationship with all the others that we encounter in our life, starting with our parents.
	So and by the way, I'm usually not censoring you.
	I'm trying to manage the program, just love to run over me.
	I mean, that's why we have these conflicts.
	No, okay.
	All right.
	A point of epistemology, Paul.
	Subjects that words are not transferable to others.
	That's why they have uh dubious scientific or empirical status.
	Now they can be real and authentic to those who have them.
	I have friends who've encountered with demons, all right.
	But it's not transferable to me.
	I am in my encounter.
	I know everybody Paul, I'm making an epistemological point.
	I know, but everybody knows this already, Jim, and and you don't need to do it.
	I mean, I know what you're doing and why you're doing it, but if you were to read the comments section of many times the shows that we've done, you will see in most cases that the people generally support the sort of thing that I talk about or bring to the show.
	Paul, of course.
	Well, but and I'm not using that in any way except to say that you go home and I ought to be the occasional guest, but only live in the no.
	Don't go there.
	You know, obviously I give you lots of time.
	I have a favorable opinion of you, but I don't like when you micromanage a show.
	That's all I think.
	I'm not I'm trying to just broaden.
	That's all I ever try to do is I I try to occasionally to uh we're running out of time and I gotta go.
	But listen.
	You're damn bad at it if you're trying to control your micromanagement.
	No, no, no.
	I'm not my yeah, that's your characterization.
	All I ever try to do is to reach you on occasion to make points, but also my goal is to occasionally move you.
	It's very hard, and people have made that observation.
	You're the immovable object in many cases.
	And you won't listen again.
	Even though I love you, you know.
	I mean a little time left with David.
	I wanted to have some things up, David.
	I think you're a terrific guest.
	I really enjoy having you here.
	And the I got I gotta run.
	Thanks a lot, David.
	I really appreciate it.
	Great having you here as always.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Bye-bye.
	Love you guys.
	Thank you.
	Uh David, uh you're a super guest, and we have so many overlapping interests.
	I love all this.
	And you're doing an exploration of a very underexplored aspect, namely the whole idea of the historical Jesus, what do we actually know about this guy, what he did.
	Obviously, this is a monumental figure.
	I mean, even our calendar is rooted on the before and after the birth of Christ for God's sake.
	I mean, there is and you're saying this be in some ways a hope.
	So, and this is not to death people who continue to believe I'm not compromising, you know, what they believe.
	I'm just simply doing an uh exploration of what we know objectively.
	Go go right ahead, David.
	I'm really Yeah, that I mean, yeah, just I just when you mentioned how we number our years even based on the Jesus oaks.
	You know, there's a great line at the end of Nietzsche's anti Christ, where he's blasting, he makes exactly that point.
	He says, for crying out loud, we number our years based on this bogus character because He says, We need to start again today.
	We need to start now.
	This is day one.
	This is year one.
	We're starting at new, right?
	And then this, like, yeah, okay, that's what we should be doing, man.
	I went through a Nietzsche thing.
	I mean, like for a week, and I just buried myself.
	I read everything I could find that Nietzsche had ever written.
	I mean, it was super saturation.
	I don't think I even slept.
	It was so fascinating.
	Oh, yeah, it's fantastic.
	It's fantastic stuff.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Anyway, one of those great experiences one undergoes if one has the occasion and uh the joyful experience.
	Real pleasure.
	I'm so grateful to the party who inspired all this, because I don't think I would have gone here, uh, other than for his inspiration.
	So I'm extremely pleased.
	And I do look forward to future conversations.
	Give us kind of a summing up, just how you'd like overview, leaving your final thoughts for today.
	Um yeah, well, I guess it kind of what it was what I was saying before, right?
	That there's these broad events in in the world today and in the past that are still influential today that that we just don't ask enough questions about.
	I mean, we really need to be skeptical, we need to ask tough questions, we need to not be bullied, we need to not be worried about somebody's gonna call us bad names because we're we're we're poking at the those in power and and the dominant ideologies because those are doing us some harm.
	I mean, they're they're causing active harm.
	And if we don't start, you know, get us get a backbone and really uh start pushing back.
	I think it's just gonna continue to cost us and cost society, right?
	I mean, in many ways, I think the other side of the coin is a critique of Judaism.
	That Judaism has become a force for evil in the world in the Talmudic guides, not Jews are evil.
	I'm not making that claim.
	As I've said some of my best friends uh been Jews, some of my closest friends of my whole life.
	And uh, so it's not that it's a tab, it's a presumption of Jewish superiority entitlement to the promised land.
	You know, talking about Jerry Garcia singing about the promised land where the Jews think they own it, they think they it belongs to them, you know.
	Yeah, now I'm not talking now just uh afterlife as a promised land, which the song is about, but I'm talking about Palestine, you know.
	Exactly.
	I mean, yeah, we're we're seeing this played out in the most horrific way, right?
	The last two years has just been a slaughter, and and you're like, what's people are like shocked, or they're like, what's behind this?
	And and they can't believe this is happening, and how can the U.S. support this stuff?
	And it's like, wait a minute.
	If you knew the history, you knew what these people were like, and you knew the history of how the Jewish lobby works in the US, it's completely understandable.
	In fact, it's entirely predictable that that was what was gonna happen.
	I mean, there's lots of there's a long-standing history that we're heading in this direction.
	So, again, people are afraid to ask tough questions, they don't want to hear the answers, they want to block you out, they'll call you names, and like, well, I'm sorry, that's how things work today.
	Yeah, well, David, I think you're a terrific guy.
	Um real we're in contact doing these shows.
	Check out David Sabina, DHT book.
	Thank you for being here, David.
	Glad to be here.
	Joyful.
	Everyone, spend as much time as you can with your family, your friends, people you love and care about.
	We do not know how much time we have left.
	Use it wisely.
	Support revolution radio again, God willing.
	We'll be back Monday and do it all over again.

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