Jim Fetzer - The Raw Deal (10 October 2025) with co-host Paul from CA and special guest David Skrbina

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Oct. 11, 2025 - Jim Fetzer

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The Raw Deal (10 October 2025) with co-host Paul from CA and special guest David Skrbina

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	This is Jim Fetzer, your host on the Raw Deal, right here in Revolution Radio Studio B this 10th day of October, 2025, where I expect to be joined by co-host Paul from California.
	But my special guest today will be David Scurbina, who is an expert on many subjects.
	He spent 30, well, 15 years at Dearborn, Michigan, and prior to that, at the University of Helsinki, which has one of the best philosophy departments in the world, may I say.
	Before we get there, however, we're going to take a look at a couple of stories of international concern that I believe are going to merit our attention.
	And yeah, here we go.
	There we go.
	U.S. has depleted its missile supply to Ukraine.
	This may be why Trump is talking about tomahawks.
	We got tomahawks, but maybe we don't have more conventional weapons.
	Now it wants more fast.
	This is very, very troubling, of course, because the situation in Ukraine is massively bad.
	The Russians are beating the hell out of them.
	Citing low munition stockpiles, the Pentagon is urging weapon contractors to accelerate missile production, doubling or even quadrupling production rates to prepare for possible war with China.
	This is just ludicrous beyond beliefs.
	It does look as though when Secretary of Now War, Heg Seth, brought all the admirals and generals together, he was telling them United States is no longer play defense.
	Now we're going to go on the offense, which may sound fun in football, but it's ludicrous in terms of international affairs because it means the U.S. is going to become an aggressor nation.
	Not that we haven't been for long standing.
	Namely, it helps to boost production rate for 12 types of missiles it wants on hand, including Patriot interceptors, BAD interceptors, joint air service standoff missiles, and the like.
	Yeah, well, good luck with that.
	It takes quite a while to get these production lines going.
	Meanwhile, and this is rather ominous.
	I gifted my husband these pants and now he has transferred nukes to Venezuela.
	Now, I was a tad slow on the update here, but this Venezuela thing realizing it appears to be an anticipation of attacking Iran, the Middle Eastern oil supply being cut off.
	We're going to want to steal oil from Venezuela.
	What else is new, right?
	So here's a report about what would happen if America found Russia nukes in Venezuela.
	As far as I can tell, they're entitled to have them.
	There may even be a secret defense pact between Russia and Venezuela.
	It would make sense.
	In a revelation that has stunned Washington and set alarm bells ringing across the Western Hemisphere, recent intelligence leaks suggest that Russia has secretly stationed nuclear-capable weapons in Venezuela.
	A bold and provocative move that immediately recalls the darkest days of the Cold War.
	According to officials familiar with the matter, U.S. surveillance satellites and reconnaissance aircraft detected unusual activity near several Venezuelan military installations, including what analysts believe are storage bunkers and transporter launcher systems compatible with Russian intermediate-range nuclear missiles.
	The discovery marks a dramatic escalation in Moscow's geopolitical posture.
	By placing nuclear weapons just a few thousand kilometers from the U.S. mainland, Russia is signaling that it is willing to challenge Washington not only on the battlefields of Eastern Europe, but also in its own strategic backyard.
	The implications are profound.
	A new era of nuclear brickmanship may be unfolding, and this time we will unpack what actually happened.
	So stay tuned.
	Well, that's pretty fascinating.
	Because we're running all these ships down there, it wouldn't surprise me to all of Russia provided Ukraine with the best anti-ship missiles in the world.
	They're unstoppable.
	They can sink every ship we send down there.
	But I was staggered when a friend shared with me a characterization of a new Russian nuclear torpedo.
	It operates at extreme depths.
	It's extraordinarily powerful.
	Could hypothetically take out an entire NATO fleet in 14 seconds.
	When I first saw this enactment, I was wondering whether it was real.
	The ocean was about to witness the detonation of the most powerful weapon ever deployed underwater.
	Russia's Status 6 Poseidon torpedo, a 65-foot nuclear-powered doomsday weapon carrying a 100-megaton thermonuclear warhead, had been stalking NATO's largest naval exercise in decades.
	For 72 hours, the autonomous torpedo had remained undetected at depths exceeding 3,000 feet, its nuclear reactor providing unlimited range, while its AI guidance system tracked the movements of 47 NATO warships worth $89 billion.
	But at 1347 hours, when the torpedo's proximity sensors detected the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group directly above, 14 seconds of underwater nuclear detonation would create the largest man-made explosion in maritime history.
	What started as NATO's Exercise Trident Fury would end with the most catastrophic naval disaster since World War II, as a single weapon would demonstrate Russia's ability to destroy entire fleets with technology the West barely understood.
	How did one torpedo threaten an entire NATO fleet?
	What made the underwater explosion so devastating?
	Join me in discovering the truth behind 14 seconds that changed naval warfare forever.
	Now, when I first watched this, I was in a state of utter disbelief because it appeared so authentic.
	Now, it turns out it's only a hypothetical reconstruction, but the threat posed by these Russian weapons is so enormous I I fear the West is just no idea what it's dealing with here.
	No acknowledgement that Rush is the premier military power in the world.
	Donald Trump keeps talking about U.s military superiority.
	We know he's not the brightest bulb in the box, but I think he's also massively ignorant.
	It worries me David, do you share some of those concerns that we got a president who's going to get us into a nuclear war?
	We're going to lose without knowing what he's doing.
	Your thoughts yeah absolutely, I mean yeah, I think it's.
	It's really striking what uh, what we seem to be ignoring in terms of Russian capabilities.
	So it's, it's yeah, hugely problematic.
	You know obviously, access to the mainland in the U.s is, uh is potentially devastating.
	You know, if they can take out large military facilities uh, naval fleets or major military bases, then that's gonna, that's gonna immediately.
	Uh, you know hamper uh, you know most of our uh our, our projected power around the world, and if they can do that that quickly, then yeah, then we really are sunk.
	I, you know whether that's a bad thing or not.
	I'm, i'm still sort of torn.
	I'm kind of i'm.
	I'm pretty much kind of an anti-empire guy, you know.
	So i'm in a sense i'd like to kind of see the empire go down in its own way.
	I don't like to have a lot of people die but um, but somehow the empire's got to end here.
	I think yeah, did I, Paul?
	Were you seeking to interject?
	Oh, i'm just gonna make a funny quip.
	You know it's a you, you commie, you communist.
	Well, I think the?
	U.s to see the empire die, the?
	U.s has so overplayed its hand and become an aggressor nation.
	We used to be a, I think, Post-world War Ii, at least for three decades four, be a force for good in the world, but i'm afraid that that's long since gone.
	It probably has to do with the encroachment of CIA taking control of the government, so we have a whole invisible government.
	Paul, don't I would.
	I would take issue with the idea that we've ever been a force for good.
	Uh, you know, I don't know how long you'd have to go back uh, but uh yeah, I don't, not that i'm not certainly.
	World War Ii and one, you know, we got sucked in there and we, we caused a horror horrific, mess for ourselves.
	Yeah, you know exactly, it's everything.
	It just uh yeah, the usual suspects.
	I was going to quip earlier too when this you brought up the destroying the entire fleet in 14 seconds.
	You guys remember uh uh, uh.
	Kenny Main from back in Sports Center where he would go?
	That would be a record.
	I don't know if you remember that Jim, remember back in the good old days when they had, like you know, Dan Patrick and Keith Tholberman, Kenny Main, all those people anyway, that was his famous line was that that would be a record.
	Keith Oldberman boy yeah, he's turned into a loony, I know.
	I mean there was a time when he had the most brilliant show on television, countdown.
	It was sensational, it was so intellectual, it was so on the point, he was so articulate, it was incisive, it was sensational and he's turned into a complete buffoon.
	It's just staggering David, I don't know if you know this guy, Keith Olberman, but I mean he was for a while really sensational.
	I mean it was my favorite show on television.
	You want to know something else staggering?
	I just discovered this morning.
	Yeah, so you know, every now and then I go out to you know breakfast it's, you know it's a.
	It's a rare occasion, but I mean you know, so I went, I went to Denny's right just to get their you know, grand slam breakfast.
	Whatever I like Danny's.
	Well, they don't have any butter.
	Okay.
	I mean, I'm sorry to use the F-bomb, but I asked.
	I said, so make sure to get butter because everywhere you go, these places now, they just give you these margarine.
	That's all they do.
	They got big, big tubs.
	And I know this going in.
	So, places I've been before, like, for example, there's other place called Country Inn.
	It's a smaller local chain, but they just give you the little pats, you know, the little foil-wrapped pats of butter because people are going to ask for it.
	I mean, can you believe that?
	They didn't have any butter in the entire restaurant.
	It's like, what is this world coming to?
	And I spared the server the little lecture about how margarine is basically like poison.
	But, you know, yeah, this is just so frustrating.
	And then just one other little quick addition, then we can move on with the show.
	Sorry to take over briefly, but you know, I was being tormented, Jim.
	If you can, you know, where I'm at with the whole way things are in this world and especially modern medical establishment.
	And I was listening to this couple in the booth right behind me, and the woman was going on and on, talking to, you know, the man.
	And I'm not sure what the relations were, but she was talking about her daughter who's got cancer, who's got autism.
	And, you know, she's in Stanford and got a whole team of doctors.
	And it's just like, you know how hard it was to keep my mouth zipped.
	Yeah, well, do it.
	Do it.
	Do it.
	Hey, so much going on here now.
	And there's a lot of reflection taking place about Judaism, its place in the world.
	We got Jonas Alexis, who's a senior editor of veteran city, Rethinking Jewish Influence on Uns Review.
	We got a host of other reflections debating anti-Semitism with Josh Middle Dorf, with Kevin Barrett, Inside America's academic gulags, Chris Hedges.
	There's a lot going on here.
	Meanwhile, we have absurdities like Benjamin Netanyahu declaring of the Talmud.
	We were barred from certain professions.
	So we were forced to deal in trade.
	And in trade, you have to be literate, you have to deal with numbers.
	But also, we studied not only the Torah and the Bible, we studied the interpretations of the Torah, this evolving body of knowledge, which is called the Talmud.
	And there's a lot of logic in there, a lot of argumentation and a lot of questioning.
	And that developed a capacity for innovative thinking.
	And that's how Israel that not only had the incoming ingathering of the exiles that the prophets talk about, the great prophets of the Bible, talk about the ingathering of the exiles.
	Well, we've ingathered the exiles, but it's not only living up to past prophecies, prophecies of the past, we're also shaping the future.
	In many ways, Israel has become the other innovation nation in the world.
	Robbie, she has a comment about it from Truth Teller.
	That yeah, confirms.
	We studied the Talmud, which developed a capacity for innovating thinking.
	Addie, there's a lot of logic there.
	Let's see.
	Jesus is in hell boiling in excrement.
	That's one of the three archenemies, the greatest archenemies of Judaism.
	Mary was an adulteress.
	Jesus was the illegitimate child of a Roman soldier.
	Jesus practiced black magic and was sexually promiscuous.
	Christianity is an orgiastic cult.
	His practitioners engage in cannibalism, and there's more.
	And of course, it's in order for the meshiach to return to the Jewish God to return to earth, all Christians must be dead.
	I mean, this is just insane.
	Judaism is, I mean, in these virulent forms, and I'm not damning all Jews.
	Michael Osa's friends have been Jews.
	There are many good Jews.
	I love the Jews against genocide when they occupy Grand Central Station.
	But David, this business of exalting the Talmud, which must be the most racist tract ever authored by the hand of man is just extraordinary and absurd and insanity.
	Your thoughts?
	Yeah, I totally agree.
	You know, I mean, that really shows Netanyahu is basically a kind of extremist Orthodox Jew who's he's just following the literal dictates of these guys from this Talmudic reasoning that they try to document over the years.
	I mean, that's a huge document.
	I don't know if people really understand how big the Talmud is.
	It's like a double encyclopedia set.
	I mean, it's like freaking huge.
	And yeah, it's filled with Jewish supremacism, hatred of Gentiles, tricks for manipulation and deceit.
	Yeah, it's a whole tactical workbook on how to manipulate and to deceive and to surpass the Gentiles of the world.
	So, you know, it's a crude, racist, you know, supremacist book in the extreme.
	I mean, if people are interested, they should take a look at the Shulchan Aruch, which is a condensed version of the Talmud, which a lot of Jews will follow even today.
	And that has some of the best of the lowlights of the whole Talmud in that book as well.
	But yeah, it's really a repulsive sort of book.
	Yeah, when you look at Christianity and Islam, as well as the three Abrahamic religions, Christianity is pretty open-minded about Judaism.
	Of course, we got the Christian Zionists, who I think are in a self-contradictory position.
	They lack mental coherence.
	Then we have in Islam, you got Jesus as a prophet, Muhammad is a prophet, Moses is a prophet, Abraham is a prophet, in many ways, the most tolerant of them all.
	Mohatma Gandhi observed he had studied all the world's religions, and the only one he found without any redeeming merit was Judaism.
	Paul, Paul, your thoughts.
	I enjoyed your characterization of the Zionist Christians as mentally incoherent.
	I've not heard that put together that way.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I would just only add, you know, you've heard me before.
	I know your guest probably hasn't, but I'm not one of these people that worries about books, you know, or isms, right?
	In other words, you use the word virulent to describe.
	And of course, to me, you know, it's, you know, these things are non-living.
	You know, they have a material existence, just like the Bible, right?
	The Talmud, so on and so forth.
	But in the end, what gives animation to these ideas is the people themselves.
	And I believe that as much as anything, these people have been known for their behavior and not so much for their beliefs.
	And they've been expelled from many nations because of their behavior.
	And I think that in many ways, behavior is innate.
	We've had these discussions before.
	So, yeah, that's where I come out on it.
	Most studies, studies with twins, that our basic traits are 60, about 66% genetic and the rest environmental.
	So there's a very strong predisposition, yeah, and certain basic forms of behavior.
	We'll get into it more deeply, no doubt, with David.
	But the Jewish inbreeding, I think, and their group strategy have led to a very peculiar situation for that group among Earth's inhabitants.
	Meanwhile, my dear friend Gevot Barrett, ceasefire settlement, crushing victory for resistance, he writes.
	In two years of fighting, Israel couldn't even come close to defeating Hamas, an allied resistance group.
	All they could do is commit genocide, taking their frustration out on women and children in hospitals and starving people lined up for food.
	The basics of this deal, a prisoner swap, and into the blockade at Gaza, Hamas stepping down in favor of a united Palestinian front backed by regional countries could have been reached on October 8th, 2023, the day after the alleged October 7th event.
	That would have saved Israel from the complete delegitimization it has suffered after two years of genocide.
	I think he's basically right about it.
	My only concern is whether this is an authentic ceasefire.
	David, your thoughts about it.
	You know, I can't trust Benjamin, yeah, who not that anyone can trust the United States for that matter.
	We break our word regularly, even in the most solid matters of treaties and formal negotiations.
	We treat them like dirt.
	It's just ridiculous.
	And late illustration, of course, being a joint plan of action with Iran, where Iran was cooperating 100%, and yet Trump pulled us out.
	Now he wants to reassert it, but with all kinds of complications, because basically he wants to disarm Iran, I mean, it's insulting and beyond belief, not credible.
	David, your thoughts.
	Yeah, you know, I wonder why these groups even bother negotiating with us or with Israel.
	I mean, because we have zero credibility.
	I mean, it's like talking to a blithering idiot.
	You know, why don't you just say you guys have zero credibility?
	We're not even a waste word one with you.
	We're going to talk to serious people around the world and try to get something done that way.
	I mean, I would like to see them just come out and say that.
	You know, I guess my fear for the current situation is Israel's main priority is to get those hostages back.
	And, you know, they'll say anything at this point just to try to get those guys released.
	And once they're released, then, you know, who knows what they're going to do?
	Then high likelihood they're going to find an excuse to break the agreement and then they'll just move back in and start slaughtering again.
	So 100%.
	I'm worried that Trump's all in, that this is a scam being played on the world, but in order to get the hostages back so they can complete the obliteration of the Palestinian people.
	Paul, your thoughts.
	Well, I don't really believe there are any hostages.
	And if there are, I would pose the question, where exactly are they?
	Where are they being held?
	I mean, what holdfout that they have not attacked or bombed or leveled?
	I think the whole thing is legend, as they say.
	So, yeah.
	A reported to be vast underground complex and tunnels and stuff.
	Right, right.
	Yeah.
	Tora Bora in Gaza.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, those are the reports, David.
	Do you think them credible?
	I've taken them to be basically credible.
	I mean, Paul's a skeptic on many issues.
	Go right ahead, David.
	I think they're basically credible.
	I guess they got to believe they do have these guys.
	They've released them in the past.
	They're going to probably release them in the future.
	And I have no reason to doubt that they're alive and that they'll probably get them back.
	And then, yeah, then all bets are off.
	Who knows what's going to happen when they get anybody back that they think they that of those remaining 23 or whatever it was that are still alive?
	Yes.
	But, you know, the thing is, we don't know.
	They could just staged it.
	So, I mean, okay, yeah, I mean, people can believe what they want, right?
	And I don't fault them for that.
	But I mean, when you think about how everything is staged, including, you know, as you probably know, if you listen to Jim, you know, the most recent state event, the whole Charlie Kirk thing.
	But somehow we think that reports from other countries, it's not staged over there.
	To me, it's like, I believe almost nothing about I hear from anywhere to be on at this point.
	It's kind of a weird position to be in, but I'm much more to the extreme than even Jim.
	And of course, if you know Jim's work, you know, he's made a career out of proving the, you know, shall we say, the false nature of many things we were told.
	So.
	You know, you mentioned Charlie Current.
	What I like about it is it's created an absolute avalanche of open discussion and criticism of Israel.
	There's no way Israel can regain its standing behind within the world.
	Caitlin Johnstone has several wonderful pieces, one of which I reported on yesterday about how they think that they can kind of propagandize the world back into liking Israel again.
	Ain't gonna happen.
	We got right back.
	We're gonna talk to David about his research on the historical Jesus and the ways in which life has been misrepresented widely.
	Watch to come stand by.
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	now we return you to your host.
	In addition to his work on the historical Jesus and so forth, David has done a lot of work on technology, the metaphysics of technology, combined technology, two of his books.
	One of greatest interest for us today, no doubt, is the Jesus hoax, how St. Paul's Cabal Fooled the World for 2,000 years.
	David, you're really into an approach that receives too little attention today.
	I think so much goes on about religious conflicts that are completely untestable.
	It's impossible to prove or disprove even the existence of God, as you as a philosopher well understand.
	And yet people believe these things with absolute conviction.
	So the degree of subjective conviction overwhelmingly exceeds the objective evidential support, which in that case is non-existent.
	Thus, am I, for example, an agnostic, recognizing in accordance with the ethics of belief, one should never accept or believe anything without sufficient evidence.
	So how could I possibly other than suspend belief in either the existence of God or the non-existence of God?
	I like what you're doing by going about and investigating what we can piece together about the real story of this guy who was, in my opinion, a great moral leader.
	I mean, he made a lot of very significant contributions.
	But when it comes to miracles, once you understand that miracles are violations of the laws of nature and that the laws of nature cannot be violated, it cannot be changed.
	I mean, the very concept of a miracle is an irrational presumption, or at least irrational.
	It's one that suspends or goes beyond the boundaries of rationality in relation to what we know about walking on water, turning water to wine, the loaves and fishes, the whole bit, not to mention the resurrection.
	I turn over to you.
	I do want to add one footnote, however.
	My respect for hell's sink is phenomenal.
	I had a dear friend there.
	You may or may not have encountered Ilkhanina Luito, one of the best philosophers of science in the world.
	If you had any encounter with him, he was a great friend of mine.
	Go right ahead, David.
	Yeah, very good.
	Thanks, Jim.
	Yeah, maybe just to begin with, you're showing there.
	That's the book.
	In fact, that's the original edition.
	I've got a new second edition that's out.
	It's on my, if you go to my personal homepage and just scroll down the first page, you'll see the latest editions of those books.
	So they're there.
	And yeah, they're available on Amazon.
	We haven't been blocked yet, which is good.
	So, but yeah, I mean, to me, it's a hugely important story.
	I think this is a massively undertold story for clear reasons.
	There's a lot of reasons why people don't want to talk about this.
	I don't want to get to the bottom of what's going on, the origins of Christianity.
	I mean, a lot of the stuff that we're dealing with, at least that I'm dealing with in the book, isn't really theological issues.
	I'm not arguing about the theology or God's power and his existence and so forth.
	It's more just of the historical facts, right?
	What we know, what documentation we have, what we do not have, and what we can plausibly infer from the data that we have and that we don't have.
	And it really shows that something is rotten at the core of the traditional Jesus story.
	I mean, it's just basically impossible that you have a miracle-working son of God.
	I mean, a literal God who comes to earth for crying out loud, raising people from the dead, walking on water, all the nifty miracles that it's attributed to him.
	And, you know, there's no record, there's no documentation, there's no contemporary, contemporaneous evidence.
	No one writes anything for or against one way or the other for decades after these things supposedly happened.
	I mean, it's just in addition to the fact that the miracles, as you say, are basically violations of the laws of nature.
	Even if something amazing happened, you know, they don't really know what was a law of nature back then.
	Something amazing could have happened, but there's no documentation of that either.
	So we have almost no reason to even believe that a Jesus character even existed.
	I suspect he did because that makes a hoax that much better if there was an actual rabbi that was at the core of the story.
	So that was my presumption.
	Even that is on pretty thin ice, but I'm willing to go that far.
	Let's presume there was a rabbi.
	He was a preacher.
	He was an agitator, got in trouble with Roman authorities, got himself crucified, and then got bodies buried somewhere in some tomb and may still be there today.
	So that's the little bit of truth I think that's at the core of that story.
	That everything else comes from decades later, comes from Paul and his followers who have a real incentive to spin a tale to Jewish benefit.
	And that's really what my book is about.
	Yeah, I want to hear the whole story.
	How the gospels came to be written, figures like Jeremiah, if you have any insight.
	I have a friend who says he was a complete genocidal lunatic and wrote several of the books and that they've had this pernicious influence.
	I've long held the belief that merging the Old Testament with the new was a calamitous historical blunder of a magnitude that's virtually incalculable and that it should not have happened and that the world would have been far better off without that kind of merger and the even theological incoherence it generates.
	If you presume this is supposed to be one and the same God, the Old Testament God of vengeance, revenge, slaughter, genocide, the God of the new, a God of forgiveness, compassion, love, mercy.
	I mean, they're irreconcilable unless God skips a frantic.
	So, you know, I think there's something very wrong that happened way back when that has had the most profound consequences for world history as a consequence.
	Your thoughts?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, we have to keep things straight, right?
	The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible, right?
	Pure and simple.
	It was written by Jews, for Jews, about Jews.
	That's all it was.
	It was a Jewish, Judeo-centric book.
	It was their theology, their history, their stories of how to dominate the people in the region.
	That's all it was.
	It's a Jewish Bible.
	And that's sort of one standalone document.
	It's got ludicrous stories and ridiculous origin stories and all the stuff that you would expect to show up, you know, from 500 BC or even older.
	So yeah, you know, just take it as that as what it is.
	It's a document that's by for and about Jews, and that's it.
	When they talk about, you know, the dominion and loving your neighbor and all those nice little, you know, that did the Ten Commandments, that's all just for Jews.
	That relates to Jews.
	It has no bearing on a Gentile at all.
	Never was intended to, was never written that way, was never interpreted that way ever.
	For hundreds of years when that thing existed.
	So you got to set that aside, right?
	And then later you come with the Jesus story, which is a whole new ballgame.
	And that has to be set in the context of the Roman conquest of Palestine, right?
	The Romans moved in in 63 BC.
	They threw the Jews out of power.
	The Jewish groups were incensed.
	They did everything they could to fight back.
	They did renegade guerrilla actions and they launched the little militant forays and they tried to kill individual Roman centurions.
	And yeah, they did everything they could to try to fight back for the Romans, to get back into power, to drive them out, basically.
	And that's the context in which Paul comes along in the year 33.
	This is supposedly, well, I'll follow traditional chronology.
	Year 33, this is three years after the crucifixion.
	And he decides he's going to write a story about Jesus who's the Son of God and is here to save every non-Jew in the world, right?
	So he starts writing his minimalist theology.
	And that's what you see in the letters from Paul, which is the bulk of the New Testament.
	It's just basically the traditional 13 letters of Paul, and then the four gospels and a few other miscellaneous pieces.
	That's what the New Testament is.
	And if you just look at the letters from Paul, it's a super minimalist theology.
	He's just saying, hey, there is this guy, Jesus.
	He was a divine being.
	He died for your sins.
	And he's here to save you.
	And just believe him and then all will be well.
	I mean, there's no quotes from what Jesus said.
	There's no Jesus theology.
	There's no words of wisdom.
	There's no mention of the gospels because the gospels did not exist in Paul's lifetime.
	In his entire lifetime, there were no gospels.
	Paul lived, was roughly born about the year zero and died apparently in the year 65 or 70, right before the rebellion in Jerusalem.
	So, yeah, all you see is a super stripped down theology in the letters of Paul.
	He's trying to build a church.
	He's trying to attract, suck in the Gentiles to a new sort of a theology based on a Jewish rabbi named Jesus, based on the Jewish God, Jehovah.
	And he's just trying to get the Gentiles kind of onto his side ideologically and against the Roman pantheism, the Roman worldview.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
	It's very interesting you suggest that those Ten Commandments and all of that were just for the Jewish community, that the Goyam, the non-Jews, weren't intended to be covered.
	And as they weren't actually supposed to be universal, principles, they're simply to be adhered to within the Jewish community.
	I think that's major all by itself.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's that.
	Exactly.
	Yeah, that's that's that's that's people got to keep that key.
	It's not like the Old Testament, New Testament is just one continuous document that's all right, you know, that all relates to two completely different documents an entirely Jewish document and then an entirely, you know, pernicious document that was written, you know, constructed after the fact, backfilling data, you know, back predicting prophecies to serve their purposes to try to manipulate and deceive the Gentiles.
	That's really what we see in the New Testament.
	Paula, any thoughts you'd like to toss into the hat here?
	Well, I was going to say, you're probably a popular speaking guest at Baptist picnics, I would imagine.
	So, yeah.
	I'm available for booking.
	Just contact me and I'll come.
	You know, it jibes nicely with where I come from, which, you know, in terms of, you know, the broad category of white nationalism.
	And we, I've taken a fairly dim view of Christians for a long time.
	In fact, I may have told Jim this before, but I've mentioned it on air on different shows that I've been on in another network too as well.
	I kind of missed the days of RBN when I used to, I didn't start out with the intent, but I used to go back and forth and really, in many cases, mock a lot of these Christian callers because there's a heavy, you know, Christian component of RBN listeners.
	And some of them are literally retarded.
	I mean, and this sort of reinforces my experience in life, you know, because I've been around, you know, so-called Christians.
	I was born and raised Catholic, and I like to joke that we Catholics even make fun of Christians because we're kind of a different breed, right?
	But yeah, I've encountered lots and lots of Christians, including in many cases, wanting to date some very, you know, Christian women because of many attractive features about them.
	But in the end, I found often that they were just vacuous, you know, and I just couldn't jive with my, you know, my, my outlook and my intellect.
	Well, it's a cult.
	I mean, that's what the Romans called it.
	They literally called it a cult because it was a mindless, you know, belief system of just allegiance, you know, and it required no thinking of any kind.
	It required anti-thinking, really.
	That's what it was.
	So I think in a sense, that's what it is today.
	You got Christians who just believe the stupidest things and, you know, it assumes a cult-like persona there.
	I'll tell you the stupidest thing I heard, and we can go on with the show, but this was a caller to RBN.
	This is probably a couple years, two, three years ago.
	And I was on a show with another co-host or host, Giuseppe, who Jim knows well.
	We were doing a show every Sunday night.
	And, you know, typically our shows covered the evildoers of the world.
	And we know who they are and, you know, the kind of things they were doing and the way they were manipulating us.
	And a caller called in, a very well-known guy who called many times and expressed overall his Christianity.
	And he actually said that all this evil in the world just demonstrates the greater glory of God.
	He actually said that on the air.
	And I literally, I didn't lose it, but I just go, what the hell are you talking about?
	Well, that's right.
	I mean, They think the most absurd things and they'll just say, well, that's proof of the will of God.
	It's like, I know.
	It's just stupidity.
	It's just problems of mind.
	Yes.
	Stupidity and incoherence is the will of God.
	Okay, that's a nice God to have, right?
	I mean, if I was in a court of law under oath, I'd swear that that happened.
	Go ahead, Jim.
	Just right myself from some of Paul's more caustic remarks.
	I appreciate all my callers.
	All my audience RBN, whether they're Christian, Jewish, and I have Christian, Jewish, and Muslim friends, and I respect them all for their beliefs, which they're utterly entitled to hold, however much I may not share those beliefs.
	But I must say the only time I was involved in organized religion was in junior high in high school.
	My mother had committed suicide after having divorced from my father, married a man.
	It was ill-fated.
	And my wonderful brother and I went back to live with our father and then stepmother.
	Shari had one son by their second marriage, my father's second marriage, and was pregnant with another.
	They thought it was good for Phil and me to get involved in organized religion.
	I was just coming into junior high school.
	And so when junior high in high school, I was involved in the St. James Episcopal Church, a youth program.
	I sang in the choir.
	I was an acolyte.
	I gave sermons on Youth Sunday.
	I was ahead of the Young People's Fellowship.
	I was even a delegate to the 14th World Convention on Christian Education in 1958, held in Tokyo, Japan, where I've mentioned on a previous show, I went to Chinese Communist, the Japanese Communist Headquarters to obtain information from, to see if what we're being told about the communists were true or not.
	I've still got those documents.
	Probably made the CI's list at that point in time.
	But the fact is, I was always baffled by whether we were talking about one God or three.
	That's Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost.
	How does that all add up?
	I could never reconcile it.
	And I don't know that it is capable of reconciliation.
	It is a theological issue.
	That was my only involvement in organized religion.
	I went off to Princeton, became a philosophy student, you know, and I never had any further engagement with organized religion.
	But I mean, that period in junior high in high school, however, was very positive.
	They had a great program.
	It was beneficial to me in many different ways.
	And I don't begrudge it at all.
	I appreciate it.
	David, your thoughts.
	Yeah, well, we have to keep in mind, again, when they constructed the New Testament, this new theology, they drew from many different traditions, including Greek and Roman and pagan traditions.
	So there is a lot of sort of philosophical wisdom, if you will, that was pulled into this new theology.
	It was just put in the package that would turn out to be a hoax.
	So that it's not that the ideas are necessarily bad.
	I mean, you know, love your neighbor and, you know, forgiveness and so forth.
	Okay.
	I mean, those things are sort of intrinsically valuable, but those are drawing from older traditions.
	And that's what Paul and the gospel writers did.
	On the Trinity, it's actually interesting because, first of all, there's no mention of the Trinity anywhere in the New Testament at all.
	That was a post-New Testament interpretation that there were three in one.
	And the other interesting thing is the Holy Spirit, when you look at that word in the Greek of the New Testament, it was the word pneuma.
	And pneuma was an ancient Greek concept for a spirit that dates to 400,500 BC.
	So clearly, Paul and the gospel writers were drawing from Greek philosophy.
	They drew from this idea of the pneuma, which was a spirit-like entity that pervaded reality.
	And they just stole it and they gave it a name, call it the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit, and then they worked it into the Bible.
	I mean, all those ideas are already there.
	They just didn't tell you where they came from.
	Yeah, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
	Paul, you want to add another thought?
	Yeah, no, I find this absolutely fascinating.
	I've always enjoyed this sort of history or what I call, you know, the deeper dive that, of course, we really never get.
	In other words, Christians never really get, Catholics never get.
	And having said that, I'll just add a little bit to what you said, Jim, to bring some what I call color into a color commentary.
	Is that I personally believe, because I experienced it, I went to Catholic school.
	I, you know, I am very thankful for my Catholic education, which I believe was a very solid foundation for going into the much more lax public school system.
	But I believe, as a friend of mine once said, that as what you would call a cultural software, that overall, Christianity is a very good thing.
	And I have a lot of fondness for Catholicism and for, you know, the Mass, the Latin Mass, and all these things that you went through, you don't understand them when you're a child, obviously.
	And it's better off to sort of be maybe horn swaggled a little bit when you're a kid and then later on outgrow it than to have never experienced what I think is or can be the good derived from that.
	You know, there's no equivalency to, for example, Santa Claus and all that sort of thing.
	But I honestly feel that European tradition, you know, American tradition, Christianity, Catholicism is a good thing overall.
	But of course, I find all this discussion fascinating today.
	Good, good.
	Yeah, I would object to that one because I think all the benefit, all the beneficial things, all the good things that you see in Catholicism or Christianity come from older traditions.
	They're coming from Greek and Roman pagan traditions.
	So just go to the sources.
	Don't take the distorted, you know, Pauline versions of those things.
	The only good stuff is the stuff that was much older than Christianity.
	And yeah, I mean, everything else is just a hoax and a fraud and a cover for this other stuff.
	So, you know, I would have to object to that view.
	I mean, that's okay.
	That's a very fair point.
	And glad you said it.
	And obviously, you're much more educated in this than I am for sure.
	Well, yeah, I mean, it's an opinion thing, but I mean, I understand what you're saying, right?
	So expand upon Paul's influence in his followers and what happened in the gospels.
	We want more.
	Yeah.
	So, right.
	I guess, yeah, just to kind of continue the story, right?
	So, yeah, so Paul was the originator.
	So, we know that after the crucifixion, nothing happens for about 20 years.
	There's a 20-year void of literally nothing.
	No one writes anything.
	There's no documentation.
	Nothing happens from about the year 30 to about the year 50.
	From about the years 50 to 70, this is when Paul is writing all of his letters.
	We have the seven authentic letters.
	Then we have another six that seem to be fraudulently attributed to Paul.
	So there's some early fraud right there in Christianity, even by the experts that they accept that fraud.
	But yeah, nominally like 13 letters from Paul is written between the years 50 and 70.
	Then the Jews revolt in Jerusalem.
	The Romans come in, they crush them, they crush the revolt, they destroy the temple.
	And that's when Paul is dead.
	He dies about that time.
	And his followers decide they're going to write a better story of this Jesus character that Paul began in his lifetime.
	So they flesh out the story of Jesus as a man.
	This never existed until the year 70 when the first gospel was written, the Gospel of Mark.
	So it wasn't in Paul.
	It wasn't documented anywhere.
	These guys just create a story of a baby who was born in a major manger to Virgin Mary and the Star of Bethlehem.
	This stuff is just invented out of whole cloth around the year 70, beginning with Mark, and then shortly thereafter with Matthew and Luke.
	So, what they're doing is they're fleshing out, they're trying to humanize this Jesus character that was at the core of Paul's hoax.
	And they're just embellishing it.
	They're coming up with, they're drawing in, like I say, little wisdom traditions.
	They're having him give these wise sayings and the Sermon on the Mount and all that stuff.
	That simply did not exist until the years 70 and 80 AD.
	Those are, you know, decades after they were supposedly happened.
	So, this is all just being fleshed out sort of real time by these Jewish writers of the four gospels.
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	Tell me about the fraudulent.
	What was the point of the fraudulent?
	What did they want to attribute to Paul that Paul hadn't said himself, but they wanted to work into the historical matrix?
	Yeah, right.
	Well, I guess we don't really know all the rationale.
	Somebody's, you know, if Paul is getting some influence, he's building the church.
	Jesus didn't build a church.
	Paul built a church.
	And Paul was gaining some influence.
	And apparently, at some time, maybe much later, we actually don't really know how much later, some people decided to, you know, gin up some bogus letters from this guy, Paul, and then they added some details that they thought were important.
	You know, I haven't done a detailed comparison between the so-called actual and the so-called fraudulent letters.
	That would be an interesting little sort of side project to do.
	But yeah, I mean, they're just trying, they're trying to add the details that Paul didn't do because Paul had such a stripped-down theory.
	They're trying to flesh that out as best they can.
	So we see it in the fraudulent letters of Paul.
	We see it in the anonymous writers of the gospels for crying out loud.
	Those guys were anonymous.
	There's four names attached there, but those mean nothing.
	We don't know who those people are, when they live, really.
	We know very roughly when they were written, but nothing about the authors other than that they were very well versed in the Old Testament because they cite the Old Testament repeatedly.
	So they were clearly Jewish writers, knowledge of Jewish theology, and they were drawing that into this new Jesus story.
	So, yeah, we see more sort of fraudulent, deceptive activity to create this new theology.
	Do those citations of the Old Testament have been part of the motivation for putting them together when they're bound?
	The old and the new?
	Yeah, I think maybe in a sense, they wanted to hide that, right?
	Because they wanted to reach the Gentiles.
	They knew they weren't going to reach them with a Jewish Bible because that would be nonsense.
	So they had to create something new that was sympathetic to Jews, sympathetic to the rabbi Jesus, sympathetic to Jehovah, the Jewish God.
	They had to create that sort of story without sort of explicitly citing the Old Testament because that would not fly.
	So they had to create a sort of a new kind of a story, weaving in these ideas, these Jewish ideas and Jewish values.
	That's what happens.
	These Jewish values are drawn from the Old Testament, woven into a new story, which is this New Testament.
	And we see it repeatedly in the four gospels.
	Enumerate what you take to be those Jewish values that make such a difference here.
	Yeah, so I mean, we see them in the Old Testament.
	It's this idea of dominion, right?
	That God put us in charge, that we are better than the rest of the life on earth, that we can dominate, that we can know the will of God, that we need to enact the will of God forcibly upon people.
	This sort of belligerence, this sort of, yeah, I mean, you see those kind of ideas, which are pulled from Old Testament, and then there's kind of rolled into New Testament ideas.
	So, yeah, All the other races really owe everything to the Jews, all their sacred treasure, even their lives.
	And the Jews can kill non-Jews with impunity, even if it comes to it.
	But God forbid that any non-Jew kill a Jew.
	That's absolutely verbos.
	I would like to ask the guest about this concept of original sin or sin, right?
	Is that also a quote Jewish value?
	Original sin.
	So you're born into sin, right?
	Right.
	Yeah, I mean, right, there's a tremendous guilt complex in Judaism, right?
	So there's this constant feeling of guilt and atoning for guilt.
	And, you know, you see it in the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament, about the need to absolve oneself of sin.
	And there's blood sacrifice.
	And, you know, I wrote a whole, yeah, I read several pieces talking about sort of the importance of blood sacrifice to absolve yourself of the sin, right?
	So this idea of guilt, what's that?
	Right back after this, Break.
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	And now we return you to your host.
	I have a musical interlude as a token of appreciation of a party.
	Actually, a listener to RBN who suggested I interviewed David about these subjects.
	The very first time I heard this song on the radio, I nearly fell out of my chair.
	It's absolutely wonderful, a classic called Drop Kick Me Jesus.
	Listen to this.
	End over in neither left nor to right.
	Straight through the heart of the righteous surprise.
	Drop kick me, Jesus, to the gold post of life.
	Make me, oh, make me, Lord, more than I am.
	Make me a peace in your master game plan.
	Free from the earthly tempestion below.
	I've got the will, Lord, if you got the toe.
	Drop kick me, Jesus, to the gold post of life.
	End over in neither left nor to right.
	Straight through the heart of the righteous surprise.
	Drop kick me, Jesus, to the gold post of life.
	Bring on the brothers who've gone on before.
	And all the sisters who knocked on your door.
	All the departed, dear loved ones of mine.
	Stick them up front in the offensive line.
	Drop kick me, Jesus to the gold post of life.
	End over in neither left nor to right, straight through the heart of them righteous surprise.
	Droping me Jesus to the gold post a lowly bench warmer, I'm contented to be until the time when you have need of me to flash on the big scoreboard that shines from on high, the big super bowl way up in the sky.
	Drop kick me Jesus through the gold post of light, and over in neither left nor to right, straight through the heart of that righteous surprise.
	Drop kick me Jesus to the gold post, kick me Jesus through the gold post, and over in neither left nor to right, straight through the heart of the righteous.
	I was actually very pleased to have the opportunity or the occasion to play that because I've always found it to be quite charming.
	I mean, I've always liked this song.
	Why?
	What to say about it?
	David, David, your thoughts.
	I'm going to go to Paul.
	Go right ahead.
	Yeah, that's a cute one.
	I hadn't heard that one.
	I heard the phrase, but I hadn't heard the song before.
	But yeah, you know, it's more of the silly kind of, it's really kind of juvenile sort of stuff, right?
	You know, you're, yeah, you're praying for for salvation, right?
	And, you know, yeah, but you know, keep just like the merger of, you know, popular religion with popular sports, you know, and all that.
	Well, exactly, right.
	And then we're going to, we're going to write, right?
	The theology isn't good enough.
	So we're going to draw on the old football analogy.
	I've got the will, God, Lord, if you've got the toe.
	I think it's absolutely blasphemous.
	And the singers and songwriters should be put up before the Righteous Secret Committee of Catholic Transgressions.
	Crucified, perhaps.
	Boiled in oil after they've been put on the rack.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I really like it.
	It's charming.
	I said the very first time I heard it, I couldn't believe my ears.
	I could not believe my ears.
	That one line got me where if you've got the toe, you know.
	Yeah, I love it.
	Right.
	I get the will, Lord, if you got the toe.
	I love it.
	I love it.
	David, go right ahead with your story, the gospels, the growth of the church and all that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So like I said, you know, the first phase of the whole process was Paul.
	He kicks things off and he moves, he builds a church.
	Yeah, he gets an idea a few years after the crucifixion about this Jesus guy.
	He makes him into a son of God and writes these letters and builds a church.
	And then he dies and there's a revolution.
	Then the gospel writers decide they need to flesh out the Jesus story.
	So around the year 70 is when we think the Gospel of Mark was written.
	That was the first one, the shortest one.
	Gives a lot of details that never existed in history before suddenly show up in this gospel.
	About 15 years later, around the year 85, we think is when the next two Matthew and Luke were written.
	They're very similar.
	We know from studies of those two gospels that there's a lot of commonality, some similarities, some differences, but they cover similar events.
	It's like the authors were sort of working together from a basic core story and they gave different spins on those stories.
	And those appear about the year 85.
	And then sometime in the early 90s, we have the Gospel of John, which is generally considered the last written gospel.
	It's the most intellectual, really draws from philosophical ideas.
	And we see that repeatedly in the Gospel of John.
	But again, for much of this time, no one's saying anything about the Christians.
	That was one of the striking facts that I noted in my book, The Jesus Hoax, was no one writes about Jesus in his lifetime.
	No one writes about him for the 20 or 30 years after him until the revolution rebellion in the year 70.
	No one, besides these handful of Jews, writes about Jesus for another 20 years after the rebellion.
	And then suddenly you have Josephus, who was a Jewish writer, turned coat, converted to the Roman Empire hierarchy.
	And he writes supposedly one paragraph that mentions Jesus around the year 93 in his book, The Antiquities of the Jews.
	And this is the first non-Christian mention that there's anything like a Jesus that even exists.
	And that's the year 93.
	So this is, you know, decades and decades after he was born, after the miracles, after the crucifixion.
	And all you get is one paragraph by some other guy who says, yeah, there's this Christian movement that's kind of starting to brew itself and grow itself.
	And, you know, then you go another, if you look for another mention, you don't go all the way to Tacitus, who was a famous Roman historian in the year 115.
	And he's documenting some elements of the histories at that time.
	And he includes just a couple of sentences on the Christians and sort of what they were causing trouble and they were agitators.
	And he sort of knew that they were basically Jews in the early years.
	And I mean, again, it's decades, approaching a century after the time of Jesus before anybody even mentions this guy.
	I mean, it's impossible that they got anything right, anything that they know was true.
	They couldn't verify anything.
	It was all had to be constructed from hearsay and just manufactured evidence.
	That's the only way they could have happened.
	Yeah, so when we search for the historical Jesus, we have very rudimentary, fragmentary, imperfect, incomplete, almost non-existent data.
	I mean, it's fascinating.
	You got a whole religion built on basically mythology.
	Exactly.
	It really is.
	It's mythology.
	It's a mishmash of ideas.
	Like I say, there's some interesting and valuable ideas in there, but those came from the Greeks and the Romans.
	And so the writers were clever.
	They were drawing from existing ideas that they knew that were out there in the world.
	And they wove them into their little story about this Jesus character to give it some credibility.
	But yeah, I mean, in terms of actual evidence, actual contemporaneous evidence, there's nothing for decades and decades.
	It's impossible that they got anything right, that they knew anything of what they were talking about.
	They couldn't confirm anything.
	Everybody who would have known the guy was long dead by the time this stuff starts showing up in writing.
	It's just, yeah, it's a ludicrous story from start to finish.
	And yet we believe it's the literal word.
	Every word is absolutely correct the way it's written.
	That's nonsense.
	You know, there's a lot of, shall we say, parallels to the world that we live in today.
	I mean, talk about people believe in mythology, right?
	I mean, we could cover everything, right?
	In other words, they wanted to get a central bank of issue to stop all the booms and busts in the economy, right?
	Or, you know, what these injections we're going to give you will prevent disease.
	Or how about the carcinogenic drugs that we're going to administer to you are going to be called chemotherapy and they're going to kill cancer cells.
	And on and on.
	It's like everything these people do.
	It's just, yeah, anyway.
	Go on.
	Yeah, right.
	There's a strong element of faith in a lot of this stuff where they're asking me, just believe it.
	Just believe us, right?
	Yeah, we have no evil intentions.
	Believe us.
	Yeah, okay, right.
	That's caused disaster time and time again over 2,000 years at least.
	Yes.
	Very good.
	Yeah.
	Jim, I didn't know that you were going to have such an anti-Semite on today.
	I'm offended.
	Wait a minute.
	Who's that?
	I'm attacking the Jews who they, I mean, they had a story.
	They had a rationale.
	They were looking out for their own best interests.
	That's all the Jews ever do.
	That's just fact.
	There's no.
	It's an inside joke.
	Jim and I go way, way back.
	I've dragged the whole truth, nothing but the truth, guy.
	I just want to figure out what the hell's going on.
	Truth is far more fascinating than fiction, actually.
	And if you, I mean, Charlie Kirk has a perfect illustration.
	It's a very complex hoax.
	Here we're talking about a Jesus hoax.
	We got a Kirk hoax.
	We got a moon hoax.
	We got all kinds.
	I mean, they go on and on and on.
	And I'm kind of in the role of being a hoax buster.
	You know, not Jim.
	Did you see that post that Brute?
	I don't know if Bruce shared it with you, but he sent it to me where there's a video of the guy who was asking the question to Charlie Kirk, the last guy, and he was rehearsing his reaction.
	He heard his reaction when Jolly got shot.
	It's like, you know, come on.
	I'm sorry to say Candace has now lost her credibility.
	She's going on about the medical records and they're actually now two shots and there was a bullet lodged in his spine.
	I mean, it's all ridiculous.
	I'm sorry.
	I've been such a fan.
	You know, I hate to see an idol crumble.
	I've been such a fan of Candace, but she's really blown it big time.
	I mean, I'll be covering the story in greater detail this afternoon.
	You need to have her on the show, Jim.
	I don't know if she'd do it.
	I'd love to do it.
	You know what I thought could be fun, Jim?
	I don't know if you have his contact info, but we could have another show with Mike Huckabee, and we could go back and forth.
	I only have contempt for Mike Huckabee.
	I know.
	We could postulate these ideas to him, see what his reaction is, you know?
	Oh, God.
	We don't want to cut off, David, though, from, and there's more to the story, but the church grew in.
	No, no, no, no.
	Where we left off, just as a reminder, right before the break at the top of the hour, was we were talking about original sin and this whole guilt thing.
	And I don't know if you would fully flesh that out or not.
	Oh, I like the fact that there's a lot of guilt in Judaism.
	I think that's fascinating.
	Go for it, David.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Yeah, guilt and sin are intrinsically Judaic.
	I mean, that's built into the Old Testament stories and the need for absolution and the need for blood sacrifice.
	That's what you see over and over again in the Old Testament.
	And it's projected into the Talmud and the Shul Chan Aruch.
	But you know that it's Jewish because it doesn't come from other sources.
	If you look at Greek philosophy, I've studied it for many years.
	You look at the Roman ideology, Roman philosophy.
	You don't see those ideas.
	It's not this idea that you're guilty and you're sinful and you have to atone for this sin and there's divine powers at work.
	I mean, that's absolute nonsense.
	That does not really exist.
	That was a Jewish construction.
	And then that gets projected as a motivating force, as a malevolent force within Judaism and then later within Christianity.
	So it's a kind of a guilt tool.
	I mean, Nietzsche was really good about this.
	Was writing about how there's this whole guilt tool of sin that's really used to exploit people's feelings and their fears, you know, about death, which is legitimate.
	Okay, right.
	Nobody knows what's going to happen after death.
	So we're going to use that fear and we're going to construct a story of sin and suffering and hell and so forth.
	And we're going to manipulate you using these ideas to our benefit.
	I mean, it's just horrendous.
	They're taking legitimate fears that people have about getting old and sick and dying.
	And then we're going to use that against you to serve our ads.
	It's utterly malicious, really.
	And, you know, to think about too, like, again, just to inculcate into people from a very early age that you are essentially you're fallen or you're, you're flawed and you're you're, you're basically lucky to be under the grace of Go because of his forgiveness, because you have a sinful nature.
	I mean, all this is very powerful manipulation.
	Yes, absolutely.
	And it's 100 Judaic.
	It doesn't, does not exist, it's not there in Greek philosophy it's, it's a, it's a construction that they came up with to manipulate us.
	And you Paul, as a young cath, like must have been subjected, inundated in that.
	Oh, I was, I was a mess, like a lot of kids, you know.
	But I mean, there's other factors as well.
	You know your parents, we all, we all survive our childhood.
	Sometimes, you know, it's a little bit more idyllic than others.
	I overall, even as a young adult, I was always fairly uh, you know, grateful for the way things were, even though, you know, obviously I didn't have the best relationship with my mom or my dad.
	And you know, I experienced bullying as a kid.
	But then you, you know, you get older, you realize, everybody has has gone through these things and it's sort of the process of, of of life.
	But yeah, you know, making kids which and it works making kids feel guilty and fearful, is not an altogether healthy thing.
	I don't think it's altogether 100 bad um because, let's face it, there's a lot of kids out there that are just a little sociopaths.
	You know.
	It is that control mechanism, isn't it, Paul?
	Well, I would imagine that's a heavy part of it.
	But again, when you look at from and I i've not dived into it as much as the people that i've many of the shows i've listened to, but I mean, you know, in the so-called white nationalist sphere, you know, so i'm sure that your guest has heard such terms as uh, the Cookianity and the Christ Insanity you know, for the more uh, the coarse, uh renditions of that uh, I remember the first time I I heard dead Jew on a stick and I I couldn't help but chuckle.
	You know I I was not fully on board yet, but the first time I heard, you know, these people speaking so mockingly of Christianity and using that term, dead Jew on a stick, I just thought to myself, I just wonder, I wonder, and of course later on I would become, you know, fairly converted.
	That's why i'm very uh, open and on board today with everything your guest is saying, yeah, you know that that.
	That that's, that's very that's a good point, because you know you get a lot of mocking comments just because people think it's silly or stupid, And then they'll make jokes out of it, right?
	But there's a real reason to sort of be highly skeptical or worse.
	And that's what I think is important that people aren't missing, that they're missing.
	They need to know sort of the background, the context, the Jewish misanthropy that they have this long-standing hatred of Gentiles and they were at the core of this religion.
	I mean, that adds all the details that are missing behind these crude jokes.
	And then it kind of makes sense.
	Hey, look, there's a rationale here why we should be super skeptical, you know, and try to be, yeah, highly suspicious of what this story is trying to do, do for us.
	Right.
	And I would like to add a little of my, what I call, I guess, testimony here.
	And I'm sure I speak for probably millions like me that, you know, it's a process you go through, the deconditioning.
	And I remember as a young man in my 20s, I was working with a guy.
	You know, he and I were kind of like more like partners.
	We spent so much time together.
	And he was very anti-religious or anti-Christian.
	And of course, I was still, you know, I was never very devout, but I, of course, I absorbed it all.
	That's why I use the word inculcate because that's really what it does.
	And I remember multiple times, you know, the discussion ever came up or he heard somebody else talk about, you know, Christianity or Jesus.
	He would always go like, oh, F, F him, F Jesus.
	There is no, there is, it's all made up bullshit.
	I remember one time we're driving in the truck together.
	We're working together, right?
	And he makes the finger, the middle finger gesture, and he flips off upward, like towards the sky, goes, you know, F, you know, Jesus or F, you know, God, whatever.
	And I remember just cringing, going, no, no, come on, don't do that, man.
	Don't do that.
	You don't know what you're doing.
	I mean, because literally it just was still part of me.
	It's like I was really, I won't say fearful, but I just was really uncomfortable with him doing that because I thought, no, no, no, no, no, you don't want to do that.
	That's no good.
	And that's how powerful this is.
	I mean, absolutely.
	You're right.
	It's really kind of a brainwashing technique.
	And you really react viscerally to those kind of things.
	And you have to say more than it's, oh, this Jesus guy, it's all bullshit.
	I mean, in a sense, it is, but you got to do better than that because then you just sound like a naysayer or a nutcase or something.
	You don't really know.
	You don't really know what's behind it, right?
	That's why it's really important to sort of, I'm sort of always asking people to do a little digging.
	You don't have to be a, you know, do a PhD level work here.
	Just get a couple of good books or get the Jesus hoax book and, you know, look, fill your fill yourself in on some basic facts.
	So if somebody says, oh, this Jesus story is bullshit, at least you sort of know what's going on.
	You have some rationale why that probably is true and how that came about.
	That's a lot better than just dishing off little insults and little quips, right?
	Which sounds kind of ignorant and stupid in its own right.
	And especially in the presence of someone like at the time, I mean, there probably was a subconscious desire for it.
	You want it to be true.
	In other words, the whole upward, like up in heaven, there's nothing there.
	He would always say, oh, there's nothing up there.
	There's nothing there.
	And of course, that just goes against, you know, because we sort of had this belief, right?
	In other words, oh, it's going to be nice.
	It's going to be the gates of heaven.
	And there's like the fluffy clouds.
	And I mean, look, they do it with pictures.
	I mean, when you think about it, they do so much with animation.
	Very similar to the whole COVID thing.
	Remember, I used to point out, and Jim probably remembers this, all these depictions of COVID and whatever, whether it was in print in the newspapers or TV or whatever, it was always animation.
	It was always drawings.
	And I thought, you know, anyway, I just thought that was pertinent.
	We get back to Marx's observation that religion is the opiate of the masses, you know, keep the workers content for an afterlife.
	They may suffer in this life, but they're going to be rewarded in the afterlife.
	And the thought there is no reward, all you got is in this life is too much, he thought, for most of Hannah, and that it was a psychological saporific, that it was beneficial in a way to endure the hardships humanity endures every single day.
	Right, right.
	In other words, I'm sure, Jim, you felt the same thing that many in humanity have felt in their lives.
	Sometimes it's like, is this it?
	Is this all there is?
	That's pretty, it's pretty normal.
	This is all there is.
	I mean, I don't buy it.
	I accept it.
	That's why you got to make every day count, you know, spend as much time as you can with your family, your friends, people you love and care about because that's all there is.
	David, go right ahead.
	Yeah, no, I, you know, that's one of the one of the evils of the Christian stories.
	It makes you put value in the time when you're not going to exist because you're dead, right?
	The real, the true value supposedly is in the afterlife.
	And this life is just a temporal realm of, you know, just kind of get through it and do the best you can.
	And then everything will be just wonderful right after you're dead.
	And conveniently, no one could check that or prove that.
	So, yeah, I mean, but yeah, I mean, it really is malicious because it lets you write off this life, which is the real life, the life that you're going to have, your one and only life.
	And you're going to write that off and say, well, I'm just going to get through it.
	And I'm not going to, I'm, you know, going to try to make it as easy as possible.
	I'm not going to make any waves.
	And I just want to get through it because then I'm going to be saved and everything's going to be wonderful.
	And that's, that's an absolutely malicious story to convey to people.
	Would you like to comment on, I'm not, I don't want to derail the show here, Jim, but I think you might find it interesting.
	Would you like to comment on the whole near-death experience and the whole, you know, people leaving their body and having these experiences and being accurate, supposedly in the detail and then coming back in?
	I mean, do you have thoughts and feelings about that?
	You must have.
	It's entirely possible, but it's not a theological afterlife.
	No, I mean, yeah, if there's some kind of afterlife, then that's where everybody's going.
	And it doesn't matter if you're good, bad, indoriferant, or whatever.
	I mean, if that's that's if there's some kind of, I mentioned, I mentioned it because not in any way to validate, you know, Christian beliefs or, you know, that sort of thing, but it's, it's so interesting.
	And there's so many, not just one or two.
	Are you familiar with the work of Daniel Brinkley and his books and so forth?
	No, I only know incidentally some of that.
	Oh, my goodness, man.
	I'm telling you.
	Well, I first heard him on Art Bell.
	And, you know, he was struck by lightning.
	He was actually in his home back in the day, you know, landlines and all that.
	He was actually talking on the telephone of all things.
	And lightning struck the house.
	And what happened to him, he said, actually, this is amazing when you think about it of how much damage.
	The fact that he actually was able to live.
	He died supposedly temporarily.
	They brought him back and he was messed up for a very long time, right?
	But the nails in his shoes melted.
	That's how much power, heat, electricity went through his body, right?
	And he was a mess.
	But the testimony that he gave was unbelievable of what he saw and what he experienced.
	And he was looking down the classic up above, looking down at his body, being worked on by doctors and being mourned over by his family.
	It was very powerful.
	And there's many others like that.
	Mind you, you're duly skeptical about Jesus' story.
	Why not the skepticism about this story?
	Well, you know, again, when is it that we stop being skeptical of everything and trust the fact that I'm just saying this is kind of extraordinary, isn't it?
	I mean, well, no, not actually.
	I love it.
	Well, again, these things, there's several books you might not have delved into this topic.
	I'm finding this fascinating.
	Okay, a side of you I had not seen before.
	To be continued, right after this spray listening to Revolution Radio at freedomflips.com, and we'll be right back.
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	Even the government admits that 9-11 was a conspiracy.
	But did you know that it was an inside job?
	That Osama had nothing to do with it.
	That the twin towers were blown apart by a sophisticated arrangement of mini or micro nukes.
	That Building 7 collapsed seven hours later because of explosives planted in the building.
	Barry Jennings was there.
	He heard them go off and felt himself stepping over dead people.
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	Now we return you to your host.
	Well, we have another musical interlude in appreciation for the recommendation.
	This is from the Jerry Garcia.
	It's the simplest expression.
	This is one I'm not so familiar with.
	Go on at a steady pace.
	When the battle is fought and the victory's won, we can all shout together.
	We have overcome.
	It's all to the Father and the Son when we make it to the promised land.
	Walk together, little children.
	We don't ever have to worry through this world of trouble.
	We've got to love one another.
	Let us take our fellow man by the hand.
	Try to help him to understand.
	We can all be together forever and ever when we make it to the promised land.
	Our Bible reads, thou shalt not be afraid of the terror by night or the arrow that dies by day.
	No for the pestilence that walketh in the darkness nor for the destruction that waiteth in the noonday of if we walk together, little children, we don't ever have to worry through this world of trouble.
	We've got to love one another.
	Let us take our fellow man by the hand.
	Try to help him to understand.
	We can all be together forever and ever when we make it to the promised land.
	This world is not our home.
	We're all in passage through my train is all made up way on the blue.
	Let us do the very best that we can while we're traveling through this land.
	We can all be together, shaking a hand.
	We'll be making to the promised land when we make it to the promised land.
	Make it to the promised land, make it to the promised land, children.
	Make it to the park When we make it to the promised land, we can all be together forever and ever.
	When we make it to the promised land, my dear City, Zionists, only they are entitled to the promised land.
	I'll have to get back there and shut it off.
	I think we're going to hear it.
	Can I just briefly, I just want to just respond a little bit.
	I got to stop it.
	Give me a second.
	And I've had this problem before.
	I don't hear anything on my end.
	You hear something?
	You can't hear it.
	No, I don't hear anything.
	Yeah, when were you going to hear it?
	Now I hear that.
	Oh, yeah.
	But it's very, it's in the background.
	There we go.
	There we go.
	Jerry Garcia.
	I love the guy.
	Go ahead, Paul.
	So, yeah, just as a brief response, I'd just like, again, to kind of maybe, you know, get our guest's opinion on the topic because I'm sure he's thought of it.
	But you said something about that side of me.
	In other words, you were, and I'm kind of surprised at that remark, Tim, because you should know by now that I'm very open in many cases.
	And I've always had a sort of a seeking mind.
	I mean, I'm not alone.
	When I first became aware of you, I believe it was 2012 because you were speaking at the conference in Santa Clara, right?
	The Conspiracy Con.
	And that was the 12th one in a row.
	I went to another one, then they stopped having them.
	So I went to 13 conspiracy conferences in a row as an example.
	Also, of many cases, they had a related UFO conference, typically at different time of the year.
	I think one was in the spring and one was in the fall, that sort of a thing.
	And I probably went to, I don't know, nine or ten different UFO conferences because I thought it was just fascinating.
	But I remember what somebody said once about the whole notion, the whole UFO thing.
	And he basically said this.
	It was one of the more well-known people in the movement.
	I forget who it was, right?
	But, you know, the guy had some credentials, some gravitas.
	And he said, essentially, if it was to be put in a court of law, right, with all the rules of evidence, and it was just based upon sworn testimony, you know, eyewitness testimony, affidavits, physical evidence, the case would be so overwhelming that there was no jury anywhere that wouldn't be convinced of the reality, so-called, of the UFO phenomenon.
	And so I look at many things in a similar light, such as the near-death experience, right, and what people have reported.
	And again, there's books on this you can read.
	You probably have not delved into it, but I came up on talk radio way before the internet.
	So I used to listen to shows and they would have, you know, they would have guests on similar to today.
	And a lot of times the guest had written a book and I would go out and I would buy that book.
	So, you know, I'm quite open.
	I am very convinced this is actually not all there is.
	I don't think it has anything to do with the whole Christian notion of things, but I have to believe based upon what I actually think I've experienced in my own life that there is a spiritual nature to things.
	There's what people call a life force, an animating force, and that we are given glimpses of it, for example, when we dream or have visions.
	Because there's a notion, all right?
	In other words, where do these dreams and/or visions come from?
	Are they completely manufactured inside of your head?
	Or are things like we've all had this experience of ideas pop into our head?
	Well, where are they coming from?
	So I know you're waving, but here's the thing.
	There's lots and lots of people that think like me, believe like me, and think that you're lacking in this part of your view of the world, that there is something known as a cosmic consciousness or a universal consciousness.
	Not that I'm not a student of consciousness.
	You know, I mean, I've done a huge amount in the area of the philosophy of mind, the nature of mind, consciousness, cognition, not to mention AI, computer science, and all that.
	But the point I'm making is very simple.
	You're such a skeptic about almost everything.
	Things most people take for granted, yet you're buying into a life after life theory and seemingly it's okay, Jim.
	I'm not buying into it.
	And there's somebody you know well that you have on a regular guest, Sophia, and she thinks basically the same way.
	And she's posted many things.
	It's okay.
	I know, but she won't even discuss it with you.
	But here's what I'm saying.
	There are people that you know, I won't name any other names, okay?
	But there's multiple people I know won't even discuss it with you because you're so you're such a skeptic and a non-believer.
	I'm telling you, I'm open to things.
	I'm skeptical.
	But let me make, Jim, please.
	Just I'm very particularly skeptical.
	In other words, I'm skeptical of the world of Jewish lies that we're living in.
	Okay.
	This, this construct that we're told is real by the powers that be, and we know who the powers that be are.
	But again, I'm open to other things.
	So, yeah, I mean, there's tremendous amounts of testimony of these near-death or after-life experiences where they die, but then they come back and they talk about all these things.
	And it's just, they're very compelling.
	So they're either all liars or there's some truth to it.
	That's all.
	Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul.
	What truth is there to it?
	What do you mean?
	I mean, Shud, just let me speak.
	You have, given I have a guest here.
	Okay.
	All right.
	I want to give him the opportunity to complete what he has to say today in the finite span we have that remains.
	Okay.
	Now, the stuff you're raising is all interesting, and I'd be glad to pursue it greater on another occasion.
	We do know when you're oxygen deprived of your brain, which occurs as you're nearing death.
	There you are.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Phenomenon and that sort of thing, which is all part and parcel of the discussion.
	Wow.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Paul, you're going on about a guy who supposedly died and came back.
	Well, that's one testimony, Jim.
	There's parents that testify.
	Paul, Paul, and also about the UFOs.
	Stop, but you stop me.
	Every time I try to give them this show and other shows, I give a pertinent example, one example.
	You stop me with a wave of your hand and say my name over and over again.
	You haven't looked into this topic.
	You have not.
	Please.
	That's it.
	That's all.
	For Christ's sake.
	Yes, I'm not an expert on UFOs, but those are unidentified fine objects.
	Everyone knows they're brazillion.
	I brought the UFO thing as a comparison.
	I'm talking about the origin, Paul.
	I'm talking about the after the.
	Let me see.
	Let me find you.
	Read his book.
	Okay, listen to some of his shows.
	That's just one guy.
	Please go ahead, Dave.
	Go ahead, David.
	I'm sorry about that.
	No problem.
	We go back a ways.
	It's not the first time Paul and I have had these exchanges.
	I can tell.
	Yeah, that's okay.
	I mean, yeah, for my part, I consider myself a rationalist, right?
	So to me, I like to have rational explanations for things.
	That's just how I am.
	I think a lot of that stuff can be rationally explained.
	I haven't gone into the near-death stuff, so I don't have a lot of comment on that one.
	But, you know, a lot of the UFO stuff is, yeah, there's all kinds of various phenomenon that are possible and they don't always necessarily have to be extra terrestrial aircraft, right?
	So I.
	But I haven't done a deep dive into UFO phenomena.
	I'm open-minded about it.
	I've seen videos that purport to be authentic of little greens and, you know, and Brosha that looked authentic.
	But, you know, I can't claim to any degree of expertise here.
	Please go ahead.
	But yeah, but like you, Jim, I've also studied philosophy of mind and consciousness for many years.
	And I wrote this book on panpsychism.
	So, you know, and I think there's a real basis for thinking that everything is sort of has a level of consciousness to it, including the cosmos.
	I think it's a real rational reality to believe that there is a cosmic consciousness.
	That's not a spiritual thing.
	I have very good rational arguments, and there's been many in the past that said that such a thing is actually true.
	I want to bring you back.
	I mean, I'll look at your stuff on the technology, the sub-unconsciousness, it's great stuff.
	It's interesting.
	Let them talk.
	Yeah, well, you're right.
	I think we'd have to do a separate show on technology and a separate one on panpsychism.
	That would be interesting.
	But yeah, I mean, there's some, I guess my point was there's some pretty, quote, fringy things that actually have a rational basis to them and therefore are pretty well grounded in my opinion.
	So that's sort of one piece of it.
	The other piece of it is, you know, when we talk about conspiracy theories, we have to recognize that pretty much everything is a conspiracy because that's people who are working together for some purpose.
	That's all a conspiracy is, right?
	And it's been turned into a slander term by the powers that be because they want to cover up various inconvenient facts.
	And so they're going to dish that out at their convenience as it serves their purposes.
	But all of it, for me, all it takes is a couple of really compelling instances of where we've been lied to to really get a healthy dose of skepticism going, right?
	And so to me, that's one of the purposes of the Jesus hoax.
	As you can see, there's really no rational basis for it.
	We have a good rational explanation for what we have, and we have a better counter story than we're given in the Bible and in our churches.
	And it's being covered up because it's inconvenient for Christians and it's inconvenient for Jews.
	And I think we can see that pretty actively.
	Another example is the Holocaust.
	So there's another story which rationally doesn't make a lot of sense, but you can't talk about it because it's inconvenient for the powers that be.
	So all it takes is a couple of good stories like that when you can say, look, there's rationally, those things are clearly cannot be correct.
	The conventional story cannot be right.
	And there are some malicious powers behind these incidences.
	And then it really, that really stokes your sense of suspicion and makes you skeptical of a lot of things, and probably rightly so, right?
	We don't know once you've got one or two major stories in history that are pretty much proven to be to be fraudulent or hoaxes to a large degree, then you're naturally asking yourself, well, what else that's going on in history or in the world today is also being covered up, is also being manipulated, and is also basically a fraudulent story, right?
	So that's an entirely rational position to take.
	And I think that's one of the huge values of studying the Jesus hoax in particular.
	It really shows you sort of sort of the value of being rationally skeptical and really confronting these stories and asking for hard evidence and being open-minded about different possible solutions.
	And also the profundity of the effects of beliefs that are not rooted in evidence or facts or history.
	I mean, it's just astonishing.
	I think the beliefs that could be broadly characterized as mythological may have more influence on human behavior generally than all the factual, objective, scientific findings the world has ever compiled cumulatively.
	I mean, it's just astonishing.
	Not the irrational overwhelms the rational when it comes to human behavior.
	Go ahead, Paul.
	I was going to just bring one example.
	Maybe it's a movie that you both saw.
	I just think there's a lot of things that make you think about things, right?
	That's where I'm coming from.
	So you remember the movie Contact, right?
	Jody Foster, Matthew McConaughey.
	You recall that movie?
	I remember E.T.
	Okay.
	How about you, David?
	You saw the movie Contact.
	I know just a little bit about the story.
	I don't think I saw it.
	Okay, well, there's a great scene in the movie.
	Disgust darn it.
	I'm big on movie references and scenes.
	Well, anyway, there's a great scene in the movie where, okay, Jody Foster's playing the scientist, right?
	Matthew McConaughey's playing the man of, you know, the cloth, the man of God, the spiritual guy.
	And, you know, Jody Foster, I only can, you know, believe what I can prove.
	And, you know, she's, like I said, the scientist in the movie.
	Well, anyway, there's a point where they're trying to connect, reach each other, you know, in a way, because there's a struggling relationship going on.
	And Matthew McConaughey asked her a question.
	He says, did you love your father?
	And of course, if you saw the movie at the very beginning, you know, she had tremendous bond with her father and she lost him at a young age.
	And she says, well, yes, of course I love my father.
	And he goes, prove it.
	Now, you know, a lot of people might not think a lot of that, but it was a very profound scene in the movie.
	And of course, it had its effect on me as well.
	And the point to be made that, for example, if somebody was to tell you about a dream they had, right, you have no way of knowing that they had that dream, but they know what it is they experienced.
	So in many cases, that's all we have to go on.
	If we don't, if we're not there in person, is the supposed testimony of others.
	In many cases, it's written down.
	Other times, it's not.
	And we're living in a world where essentially we are formed in many ways by the testimony of and the relationship with all the others that we encounter in our life, starting with our parents.
	So anyway.
	And by the way, I'm usually not censoring you.
	I'm trying to manage the program.
	You just love to run over me.
	I mean, that's why we have these conflicts.
	No, okay.
	All right.
	The point of epistemology, Paul.
	I date that word.
	They're not transferable to others.
	That's why they have a dubious scientific or empirical status.
	Now, they can be real and authentic to those who have them.
	I have friends who've encountered with demons, all right?
	But it's not transferable to me.
	I am in my entire life.
	I know.
	Everybody.
	Paul, I'm making an epistemological point.
	I know, but everybody knows this already, Jim, and you don't need to do it.
	I know what you're doing and why you're doing it, but if you were to read the comments section of many times the shows that we've done, you will see in most cases that the people generally support the sort of thing that I talk about or bring to the show.
	Of course.
	Well, but and I'm not using that in any way except to say that I ought to be the occasional guest, but only living.
	No, don't go there.
	You know, obviously, I give you lots of time.
	I have a favorable opinion of you, but I don't like when you micromanage a show.
	That's a way.
	I'm not, I'm trying to just broaden.
	That's all I ever try to do.
	I try to occasionally.
	We're running out of time and I got to go.
	But listen, you're damn bad at it if you're trying to control your micromanagement.
	No, no, no.
	I'm not my that's your characterization.
	All I ever try to do is to reach you on occasion to make points.
	But also, my goal is to occasionally move you.
	It's very hard if people have made that observation.
	You're the immovable object in many cases.
	And you won't listen to the guest, even though I love you.
	You know, I mean, a little time left with David.
	I want to give up something is up, David.
	I think you're a terrific guest.
	I really enjoy having you here in the back.
	Me too.
	I got to run.
	Thanks a lot, David.
	I really appreciate it.
	Great having you here, as always.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Bye-bye.
	Love you guys.
	Thank you.
	David, you're a super guest, and we have so many overlapping interests.
	I love all this.
	And you're doing an exploration of a very underexplored aspect, namely the whole idea of the historical Jesus.
	What do we actually know about this guy?
	What he did.
	Obviously, this is a monumental figure.
	I mean, even our calendar is rooted on the before and after the birth of Christ, for God's sake.
	I mean, there it is.
	And this, in some ways, a hope.
	So, and this is not to dance.
	People continue to believe.
	I'm not compromising, you know, what they believe.
	I'm just simply doing an exploration of what we know objectively.
	Go right ahead, David.
	I'm really, I mean, yeah, just when you mentioned that we number our years even based on the Jesus hoax, you know, there's a great line at the end of Nietzsche's Antichrist where he's blasting.
	He makes exactly that point.
	He says, for crying out loud, we number our years based on this bogus character.
	He says, We need to start again today.
	We need to start now.
	This is day one.
	This is year one.
	We're starting it new, right?
	And then this is like, yeah, okay, that's what we should be doing, man.
	I was an undergraduate.
	I went through a Nietzsche thing.
	I mean, like for a weekend, I just buried myself.
	I read everything I could find that Nietzsche had ever written.
	I mean, it was super saturation.
	I don't think I even slept.
	It was so fascinating.
	Oh, yeah, it's fantastic.
	It's fantastic stuff.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Anyway, one of those great experiences one undergoes if one has the occasion and the joyful experience.
	Really?
	I'm so grateful to the party who inspired all this because I don't think I would have gone here other than for his inspiration.
	So I'm extremely pleased.
	And I do look forward to future conversations.
	Give us kind of a summing up, just how you'd like overview, leaving your final thoughts for today.
	Yeah, well, I guess kind of what I was saying before, right?
	There's these broad events in the world today and in the past that are still influential today that we just don't ask enough questions about.
	I mean, we really need to be skeptical.
	We need to ask tough questions.
	We need to not be bullied.
	We need to not be worried about somebody's going to call us bad names because we're poking at those in power and the dominant ideologies because those are doing us some harm.
	I mean, they're causing active harm.
	And if we don't start, you know, get a backbone and really start pushing back, I think it's just going to continue to cost us and cost society, right?
	I mean, in many ways, I think the other side of the coin is a critique of Judaism, that Judaism has become a force for evil in the world, in the Talmudic gods.
	Not Jews are evil.
	I'm not making that claim as I've said.
	Some of my best friends have been Jews, some of my closest friends of my whole life.
	And so it's not that.
	It's a muddock, it's a presumption of Jewish superiority, entitlement to the promised land.
	You know, talking about Jerry Garcia singing about the promised land, well, the Jews think they own it, they think it belongs to them.
	You know, I'm not talking now just afterlife as a promised land, which the song is about, but I'm talking about Palestine, you know, exactly.
	I mean, yeah, we're seeing this played out in the most horrific way, right?
	The last few years, it's just been a slaughter.
	And you're like, what's people are like shocked, or they're like, what's behind this?
	And they can't believe this is happening.
	And how can the U.S. support this stuff?
	And it's like, wait a minute, if you knew the history, you knew what these people were like, and you knew the history of how the Jewish lobby works in the U.S., it's completely understandable.
	In fact, it's entirely predictable that that was what was going to happen.
	I mean, there's lots of long-standing history that we're heading in this direction.
	So, again, people are afraid to ask tough questions.
	They don't want to hear the answers.
	They want to block you out.
	They'll call you names.
	And like, well, I'm sorry, that's how things work today.
	Yeah.
	Well, David, I think you're a terrific guy.
	I'm a real plea for contact doing these shows.
	Check out David Serbina, DHT Fox Books.
	Thank you for being here, David.
	Glad to be here.
	Joyful.
	Everyone, spend as much time as you can with your family, your friends, and people you love and care about.
	We do not know how much time we have left.
	Use it wisely.
	Support Revolution Radio.
	And God willing, we'll be back Monday and do it all over again.
	It is our war.
	We are the fighters.
	Pike it then.

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