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July 17, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:04:05
Real Deal SPECIAL (16 July 2025): Bill Binney and Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
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This is Jim Fetzer with once again another real deal special interview with Bill Benning and Catherine Horton.
We begin today with their trip to Washington where they were seeking to inform, advise the Secret Service of threats to those they seek to protect, of which the Secret Service is almost certainly unaware.
Bill, Catherine, let's start with Bill.
How did it go, Bill?
Were they receptive?
Did you ever get through the barrier of protection, the protective belt?
Basic answer to that is no.
We got to speak with a special agent.
Yeah.
That's all.
Special agent stuff.
And, you know, some of the things, I guess, they thought they took in.
Some people thought they were some of the other agents that were around, you know, the uniform guys, I think they were taking, listening to it and taking it seriously, some of them anyway.
Others, I don't think so.
Others, I think, wanted to get rid of us.
Do they have any idea who was coming with this message that you and Catherine are as eminent and qualified as anyone could be to address this question?
I think they decided they'd ever heard the name Bill Benny or NSA or Catherine Horton or targeted individuals that they show any knowledge or comprehension at all?
Well, we didn't bring up targeted individuals because the Secret Service mission is really just the protection of the president and the other protectees.
And that's really all it was about.
But they should know by now who I am because I spoke to the Secret Service on the 9th of December at Mar-a-Lago outside Mar-a-Lago.
I was trying to hand in evidence.
I was not trying to get into Mar-a-Lago.
I was at the police checkpoint on the bridge trying to get evidence to Sean Curran, who at the time was the protected detail leader.
So I left all my details back then.
I had before this trip gone to the Secret Service twice in the HQ, and I spoke to a special agent, the same one, both times.
And I spoke to the same uniform division.
And I had outlined it.
But every single time we do a trip, we send, we overnight a letter a week ahead saying we will suggest this day in time to hand in evidence to Sean Curran.
There's other things we cannot say and should not really say to just any special agent out there.
There's certain things he has to make an executive decision on.
There has to be situational awareness at his level to make the decision about what and how he's going to deal with it through his special agents.
But at some point, his brain needs to be on the case and there's certain things we want to say to him directly because of just how sensitive it is without putting anybody in danger, especially because every agency right now is a patchwork as a result of deep capture.
It's a patchwork of deep state agents and genuine people.
The information we have needs to go to Sean Curren first so that he can circumvent all the deep state agents.
Anyway, long story short, I was there twice already.
So by the time I came a third time with Bill this time, the uniformed division guy, whose name I always forget to ask, he has seen me before.
And last time I said to him, hey, have you Googled directed energy weapons?
And he smiled and he said, no, I haven't.
And I said, listen, you've just watched this.
So the special agent we spoke to on Monday, he was nothing like the first guy.
The first guy had humility, looked really keen to learn.
He might have turned around and thought, hey, what nonsense, right?
And give me the middle finger.
But at least his entire mannerism was, yes, I would like to know more about this.
Now, this third guy or the second guy here on the third time, he wanted to get us the heck out of the building.
He said, oh, well, you know, we're investigating the death threat by Comey.
And I just, I looked at him and I had to stop myself from laughing because if they had investigated anything, there should be a dozen arrests by now related to the network.
There's absolutely nothing.
They're not investigating shit.
The other thing he told me is that he is in the investigative division, but he doesn't analyze things himself.
Now, you know, Jim, tell me, how do you investigate anything without analyzing things yourself?
It's like one person can read, the other person can write.
There's absolutely no connect.
There was no continuity of thought.
There was no continuity of somebody actually working on a case.
And at no point could I get through to a senior person who was maybe not Gen Z or millennial and why I could actually rely on him being able to read and write and having experience with investigations.
Well, they got all these high-tech methods for identifying people.
When you walked up, did they say based on facial recognition, hey, you're Bill Benny from NSA?
No.
They also said, hey, do you have any body cams or any outputs to record the conversation?
But the only thing they had was, you know, pen and paper where they sporadically wrote, jotted stuff down.
It is solo-tech.
So you're telling me they really had no idea who they were talking to.
The guys we spoke to, at least they pretended very well, but I don't think so.
Well, the guy who's seen me twice before knew.
The guy you'd spoken to before, but he was not there on this occasion, right?
The uniform division guy had recognized me by face and he actually came up to me, smiling.
He said, hey, you know, we've spoken before.
But there's absolutely no continuity.
The other thing is that we have sent repeatedly detailed letters.
I've also pointed in the last letter to a website where I published all the previous letters where we go in detail about the topics that the Secret Service needs to catch up on.
And this is not about just, you know, Joe Bloggs walking off from the street and giving the Secret Service some time-wasting headaches.
It's about ongoing threats that they need to know about.
I'm a bit disturbed that the Secret Service wouldn't be aware of the identity of maybe the most celebrated cybersecurity guy in the world today for crying out loud.
They didn't even know who they're talking to.
Give me a break.
Bill, I find this appalling.
Appalling.
What the hell is their job?
they don't seem to have any idea what they're doing, what they're about, who they're dealing with, who's walking up the stairs or the street or the sidewalk.
Give me a break.
Weren't you rather appalled, Bill, that it was this absence of knowledge and security and identifying even who you guys were?
Well, even beyond that, though, I was more disturbed by their lack of seemingly lack of interest in knowing any new thing or looking into things that they should be addressing or could be addressing.
And for example, I gave them what I call the attribute sharing or shared attribute technique, technique of figuring out who's smuggling things in the world and things like that.
And I get concrete data about it.
They seemed a little bit interested in that.
But when I said you could use this to do all kinds of criminality in the world, like money laundering, all that kind of stuff, they didn't seem to connect at all.
I think it sounds like they're dollars.
I wonder if they're even college graduates.
You know, what's it take to be Secret Service today?
Well, funny you would mention college graduates because those are the people I taught.
And maybe you have the same experience, Jim, but my experience was that the newer generations, the millennials and Gen Z, bless their hearts, they don't have a clue about anything.
They don't know how to work formally, systematically, in a professional manner.
And unfortunately, unless there's somebody who's at least late 40s or 50s or 60s, these kids can't tell their head from their ankles.
That was my experience at Oxford, which was one of the number one elite universities in the world.
And all the people we got were top of the ABI in the school.
So when that was the experience I had with those kids, these guys are so in over their heads, it's not funny.
But I would have thought that by the time I come, really for the fourth time in my case, and we sent the Secret Service a letter in September 2024.
So this has been over six months now.
When we come now in person again, after having announced it the week ahead, and yes, the Secret Service received it.
We have the tracking codes, that there's no continuity and no senior person that one can talk to.
In contrast, I turned up at the Swiss Secret Service unannounced on a random weekday.
I walked in and I immediately talked to one of their high-level people.
I just scanned my driver's license at the gate.
The gate guy called in and said, hey, here's somebody here with information to talk to.
I got immediately put through somebody who was himself gloating how high up he was in the infrastructure, the hierarchy, in the Swiss secret service.
So, you know, you can, if people take you seriously, you can get to you.
But we were really stoneballed and bounced off at the lowest level of education in the attack.
I think you were, when you got into the attributes and all that, so far over their head, Bill, they had no idea.
They're not remotely computer competent even, although I think they're very good at computer games.
You know, they're very good at texting messages to their friends.
But when it comes to theoretical understanding or an intellectual grasp, they don't have it.
They don't have it.
And I'm worried that Catherine's right.
You got a generation that lacks intellectual capacity to deal with problems of any degree of seriousness.
It's very disturbing.
Yeah.
And what was even more interesting is that I said, listen, I mean, I would not be pushing so hard if we were not working to a clock.
But the clock started ticking a second time when James Comey issued that kill order, the 8647.
Now, last time 18645 was issued by Grafkin Whitmer and Alex Soros had a similar announcement.
That was in January.
And in July, President Trump's head was nearly blown off.
So that was six, a bit over six months in between the two, right?
Now, the kill order by James Comey, who was the FBI director, was issued on the 15th of May.
And we spoke on the 14th of July to the Secret Service.
Two months had passed.
So to actually implement and how we were trying to talk to them about is how to uncover the threats that would be behind the skill order, how to uncover the next network that arranges the next Butler 2.0.
And for that, Bill has to get working now so that we have results in two months' time.
There is a time scale here.
Look, look, you're dealing with dollars.
Could you ask for their superiors or supervisors?
Could you work your way up the food chain?
Well, I tried now and we can't.
This is the level they bounce us off at.
It was hard enough to get the special agent because what looked like the janitor, I will call him Polish guy at the gate, he was getting really unpleasant with me.
I got angry and I just, you know, turned my thorns outwards because he just at some point, he just waved me over.
So we just arrived.
The first guy we talked to, the security guy at the gate was a super nice guy.
We took our IDs and I explained, we sent a letter and we suggested this date and time.
He didn't hear back.
We have no proof of life from Sean Curran.
There's no reply.
And he could have sent an email back to his executive assistant saying thank you, but no, thank you.
But instead, there was silence.
And I have proofs that the FBI has diverted my letters every single time to Chantilly, where the CIA University is, has, you know, tried to disappear letters in the past and so on.
So we still don't have any proof that Sean Corinne actually got any of this.
And I just cannot believe that he would be quite so freaking stupid.
So, but anyway, I went up to the gate.
I was kind of waved up to the gate after the nice guy told us to just sit down and wait.
And then this Polish guy spoke to me for.
He said, listen, you can't just come in here and demand to talk to the director.
And I said, first of all, we didn't just come Here.
I've seen you now three times in a row.
We announced it a week ahead of time that we suggest coming here to hand in evidence.
That's number one.
There was a week warning after this.
There were several months warning that we are trying to do this, right?
And besides, I said, who exactly are you?
What is your position here?
What is your status?
And he refused to say what his job was.
And I said to him, listen, you don't talk to me like that.
The only thing I can assume is that you're probably the janitor or the building's maintenance guy.
Or you're here to repair the, you know, the scanners, the airport scanners.
I mean, through you.
I'm not going to talk to anybody who doesn't tell me who they are.
I don't need a name.
I don't want to dox people.
I want to know what sort of, you know, what's your job here?
What sort of executive level am I talking to?
I think we experienced what the Bongino said.
Dan Bongino?
Dan.
Yeah, he said, you know, this Secret Service, it talks about yesterday's technology, tomorrow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think you're right, Dan.
They were just, it was just beyond them totally.
Yeah.
What about going to Dan Bongino?
There might be a more promising avenue.
Well, here's the thing, Jim.
I know for a fact that the FBI is committing these crimes against us.
We were all the way there.
I would love to talk to Dan and he would have to start the investigation internally.
We spoke, well, we sent an email to Cash Patel through our private contact because any official letter is just like this one, just like the one.
And we got assurances from this acquaintance that we share that the email was passed on and Cash Patel refused to reply.
So as far as I know, the FBI is far beyond redemption.
Their technology is not that good either.
Yeah, I've always had doubts about Cash Patel.
He came out of nowhere.
What the hell is this guy?
Seems like a lightweight doing run in the FBI.
Very disease.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think he has too many people who have too much of an understanding of the technology that can be applied to these problems.
And he just don't.
They're ignorant and they don't want to be educated.
Yeah.
Well, and they don't want to admit it.
Aesthetic.
It was, unfortunately.
And really, as I keep emphasizing, the ultimate driver behind this is an active kill order against President Trump.
That the previous version of this from 2024 shows us that this is not something to be, you know, to be discarded lightly.
Take it seriously or not, there's a fat lot there and they raised 40 million to take out Trump already.
This is coming from alleged Iranian sources.
I'm sure they're actually Israeli.
This is a top psyop.
But the point is they're promoting it.
So the Secret Service ought to be doing everything it can to guard against.
The Iranians like the Secret Service are not idiots.
They know what they're doing.
Unbelievable.
This is embarrassing, you know.
Well, you know, the reason why I keep holding out and the reason why we even turned up there three times in a row, also meet fourth time, counting Mar-a-Lago, is that, you know, it is actually a unique opportunity because Sean Curran was made secret service director after he was one of those four or five people who stormed the stage around Trump.
So he literally had bullets fly past his head and nearly his entire team was wiped out by those bullets, you know, immediately around Trump.
So he was made secret service director with that experience.
And he was the only one also who came in and held the top level of leadership.
Neither Cash nor Bongino fired a single soul from senior manager.
So he has out the gates.
He was the best race force of the law.
He removed top leadership.
They were also implementing, I think they implemented over half of the suggestions from Senator, was it Senator Grassley, who made the Secret Service investigation about what went wrong in Butler?
So they're really chipping away, and I understand that there's a time scale to this, but the situational awareness about stealth weapons that, you know, by the looks of it will be what will be used on front next, kind of has to go to the front of the queue, especially when there's an active kill order.
So there's a certain latency learning about directed energy weapons and covert chips in your own secret service agents that could be used to weaponize or commit an assassination attempt with a neural weapon, with neurological hijack of one of the secret service agents.
And to get ahead of that takes several months of the turn on curve.
Listen, just a trivial question or two.
Any problem driving down, finding parking, getting to the White House?
Any issues there at all?
Well, we picked a hotel that was very close to the Secret Service that had a valid parking.
Yeah.
And it was walking distance.
So our hotel was walking distance from the Secret Service.
But otherwise, the whole town looked normal.
There was nothing extraordinary.
So there are a lot of extraordinary things going on politically that weren't evident on the street.
The world is collapsing.
He's become frantic.
He doesn't know what to do, how to cope.
He's losing half or more of his base.
The whole thing about the Epstein boss has been so botched.
There's some who are worried he's going to start World War III as a distraction.
And I wish I could tell you that's not impossible, but unfortunately, it is in the realm of possibility.
And you got this guy with a monumental ego who's always able to get himself out of scrapes, sometime with the help of his friends in the Rothschild banking industry, of course.
Now he's boxed in.
And it's obvious to the whole world he's being manipulated, he's being blackmailed.
I don't know if he has a way out.
Bill.
Here's the thing, though, because the Epstein disaster is a true disaster.
And I can definitely tell that gamekeepers around him are trying to brainwash him into the worst possible messages.
I mean, I think it was just today after our trip that came home late last night.
And just this morning I read that claim that the whole extinguishing captain, you may want to reiterate that point.
When you got home and you saw the paper as latest, you may be about to talk about him claiming it was a hulks or made up by the Democrats, which is absurd beyond belief.
Are we gonna unfreeze?
Let's continue.
You were about to say you got home and you began to see these stories and what the story, but yeah, this is why, and people understand why we got cut off.
Our internet was disconnected without us touching anything.
So I read that Trump announced that the Epstein case was a hoax.
Yeah, that's his latest ambassador who's going to believe that?
It is insane.
But this is not something he came up with.
I think there's the gatekeepers around him are really moving in.
And the other thing to remember, when you just look at his daily schedule, this guy sleeps very few hours every night.
And he has been working all the time on the trade deals and the tariffs, which actually are amazing.
But he's a business guy.
And everything that is just 100% pure Trump is working amazingly.
Everything that is not Trump, where he's relying on cash or Pam Bondi, that is a complete and unmitigated mess.
And when they broke in the boss to run a whitewashing and ask covering exercise for them, that is not a good look at all.
That looks, and that's exactly what it looks like.
It's horrific.
You would not believe the hundreds of articles that are appearing, every aspect of this.
There's a guy named Wolf who interviewed Jeffrey Epstein years ago for at least 10 hours.
And he learned all kinds of stuff about Trump.
And parts of it are appearing in various blogs I'm publishing.
I mean, my last three blogs were by three different authors all about Jeffrey Epstein and bringing out different aspects of this.
And it turns out that Wolf would say to him, well, how do you know this?
And Epstein would say, well, I was his closest friend for 10 years.
And he'd go on to explain.
He actually said Trump is functionally illiterate, that he can't even read a spreadsheet, but he can read the social page in the New York Post.
And that pretty much exhausts him.
So he's particularly amenable to being manipulated by his sources.
And I strongly suspect even his chief of staff is actually working for a foreign government that we can guess that seems to be ubiquitous running Washington and where Epstein was there.
Guess Slane had just come out and said Jeffrey's alive.
He's in Israel and he's blackmailing American politicians.
She has just said that.
I mean, you know, give us a break.
And I've looked at this footage from this supposed to be, you know, Pam Bondi said it was raw footage of Jeffrey Epstein's cell.
Well, it was of a commentary.
It wasn't even of his cell.
And there was a little fragment where you can see a jailer walk over to his cell and you get a glimpse of orange on a stairway.
I mean, it's very brief, an eighth of a second max.
But I'm telling you, that's Jeffrey Epstein making his escape from the jail.
I mean, there's just no doubt about it.
And it turns out it had been edited three or four times using Adobe Pro, whatever.
I mean, and the metadata, they had even removed the metadata so you could see where it had all been edited.
I mean, how bad is this original amateur hour?
Bill, can you believe it?
It is intentional.
So what I found is that the FBI, because they very quickly figured out that their minions are functional morons, right?
And they will screw up all the time, the way they kind of use that is that they leave in or they claim that they leave in obvious glaring errors and basically use it to gloat to their insiders, look what bullshit we can brainwash the massively.
So for example, when the after the minute is missing, the frame format is different.
So it shows that some editing was done.
At the bottom, you can see a white line from another window.
And at the top, you could see the editing buttons on the Adobe whatever plus throw thing.
So they overburdly leave these things in there because they know that if they wanted to be perfect, their minions would fuck up.
So they embrace the fuck up and use it for jeering.
So very kind of sadistic, psychopathic jeering of how stupid are we to fall for this bullshit.
I don't know if you've seen a photograph of Jeffrey Epstein's neck.
And there's a very dark red circle, totally unlike from a hanging with a sheet.
I mean, it wouldn't be remotely like that.
I mean, every aspect of this is mucked up.
Bill, what do you think?
I mean, how can they be this bad?
Well, it really appears to me that there's just too many people in high positions in government and around the world and industry and so on and banking that are involved in this that they just have to all be protected.
You can't, the whole system would fall down if it wasn't.
There's another aspect to it, though.
And although I can't envision anyone doing this, because what we're talking about is so horrendous, okay?
You know, child hurting children and abusing children is just too horrendous to think of.
But they could be using it to as a means of blackmailing everybody around the world.
Yeah.
And that gives them leverage on everybody.
Yeah.
I suspect that too.
Look, there are 10 different lawsuits settled out of court where Trump paid millions to little girls and Little boys, little girls, and little boys.
And there's no doubt these are legit.
They even appear to have contributed to some of his bankruptcies.
He's had five or six, and it'd been Rothschild money that had been bailing him out.
I think they got him by the short hairs.
I don't think he's got a way out.
And I believe there's a most horrific, I don't know if you've seen some of his photographs of him with Ibonca when she was a little girl.
And in some, she's sitting on his lap and she's looking at daddy in the most unchildlike fashion.
And I think that's the biggest sword they have hanging over his head, that he actually had sex with his own daughter.
It's the first time I hear about the court case where you pay damages to young kids.
Well, to the parents and the families.
They settled out of court for millions.
Millions.
This is the first time I hear of it, which she did just to.
I've been reporting a lot of these stories.
And of course, I'm publishing a lot of these stories.
I'm telling you, it's sordid.
There's even one of them, a 13-year-old girl.
Jeffrey and Donald were doing everything together.
Everything.
They're both having sex with this 13-year-old girl at the same time.
I'm just amazed.
Why did the Democrats still choose it?
Was it meant to be the ultimate control trial?
Maybe they're worried that, you know, Hillary is involved, Bill, of course.
There's all kinds of sort of, you know, Hillary and Huma actually tortured a young girl.
She was 13 or 14 for adrenochrome.
And it's just one of the most horrific stories you ever heard.
They actually cut off her face.
Hillary is dancing around wearing her face.
And she was saying, why are you doing this to me?
She had a lot of spunk.
And they wound up killing her.
That's been out for a long time.
That was on the Wiener laptop.
There was so much sordid stuff there.
When the stories first came out, these hardened New York cops who'd seen everything were reduced to tears.
And they said, even Hillary's most dedicated supporter isn't going to be able to get around this.
And now, I think of the dozen, 11 of them are dead now already.
So, I mean, but it's there.
It's all in the Wiener laptop.
He just couldn't bear to deal with these juicy clips, video clips.
And of course, he was married to Huma.
I mean, it's all grotesque.
It is grotesque.
The normal mind is repulsed by all of this, all of this.
Anyone with a modicum of decency.
I'm just stunned because I've never heard about the child.
The only thing I heard was that Trump was the guy who threw Jeffrey Epstein out of his club when Jeffrey Epstein was moving on one of the young girls there, was the daughter of somebody.
But then also from the Attorney General, I heard that it was Trump who called him up and gave him all he knew about Jeffrey Epstein.
Jeffrey was telling Wolf a whole lot of things he knew about Donald, and it's not flattering, I'll just tell you.
Not flattering.
And his tenor of interview is available somewhere of Jeffrey Epstein.
Parts of it.
Yeah, yeah.
The guy's name's Wolf.
If you just go on my blog, Waukina Goopian, it was a five-volume series on pedophilian politics.
I think this guy's the leading expert on pedophilia.
He publishes on my blog all the time.
And his latest includes some of this interview with Wolf.
You want to read it, Catherine, right there on jameshvetzer.org.
I mean, it's serious stuff.
And if you read the other two, there are two other there.
There are three in a row about Epstein.
You'll get a lot of good stuff there because these are responsible authors.
I think, but be prepared to be stunned.
Stunned.
Yeah, and you shouldn't be first.
I'm just stunned to even hear that Trump's involved because we never struck.
I mean, I looked into the people, the adult women who came forward accusing him of sexual molestation.
I noticed that, you know, 100% of them came forward on Super Tuesday and just before the election, two or three election.
So that was all just nonsense.
It was like, no, Nee, Jean Carroll, what an absurd story.
And she can't even remember the year at which he allegedly assaults her in a major department store in the middle of Manhattan in the middle of the day.
I mean, it's stupid on its face.
She couldn't even remember the year.
How could that go to court when he couldn't give an alibi?
Who the hell knows?
He may have been in the Bahamas playing gold that day.
I mean, it was so set up.
So you did have all these Democrats with all these phony witnesses and do gang rape per capita and all this other stuff.
It was stupid beyond belief.
And they were willing to do it.
These were women who thought they were giving their all for a worthy cause, but it was all total bullshit.
I mean, it was grotesque.
So no wonder you'd have that impression.
And what I'm saying is separate that bullshit.
There's real hardcore, incriminating evidence of Trump committing pedophilia.
Not once, not twice, 10 cases where he settles on accord.
And it's bad stuff, Catherine.
It's bad.
Oh, gosh.
And then you mentioned that 10 of, was it 10 Whites were already dead?
Who's dead?
Oh, I'm talking about the hardened New York police detectives who watched the video clip of Huma and Hillary tormenting this 14-year-old girl and killing her, which is on the Anthony Weiner laptop.
And 11 of the 12 of them who watched it are dead already.
You know, I mean, there's a Clinton dead body count that runs about 200 now.
Oh, my goodness, because I just heard today that somebody came, I think the former interim assistant commissioner of the New York NYPD said that it's being run as a criminal enterprise.
I just heard that today.
That was breaking news that he said that the NYPD is run as a criminal enterprise.
Is that related to these deaths?
It's horrific.
I don't know the answer to that.
I haven't seen that story yet, but it sounds like an important one to add to the myth.
No, Trump is not at all the guy you thought.
I thought, look, he's got all these beautiful women throwing themselves at him.
You know, why would he fiddle around with children?
And it turns out he actually satisfies the category, you know, the American Psychological Diagnostic Manual, that he's actually been classified as a pedophile, that he's got a pedophile syndrome.
And it's grotesque.
You never expected it.
I supported this guy through thick and through thin, voted for him three times.
Since he came down the escalator, I was very strong.
I was finding excuses or reason to, and so much of the Democrat behavior was so bad that it was obvious he was being targeted for purely political purposes and the judicial system was being abused.
But I'm telling you, when you dig deeper on Trump, it's sordid.
It's absolutely sordid.
Wow.
Today is the time.
I have to go and do the research because I am just stunned.
I am stunned.
Everything that they threw at him, I really dug down and I debunked Ejing Carol Case.
On her, I found at least 17.
Yeah.
You know, she even wrote a book.
She had all these fantasies of these famous people raping her.
She's got a story of nine or ten of these people, household names.
Who the hell is she?
She was nobody.
Yeah, and that's the thing is.
She was on one of these talk shops and they did they talk about how they were going to spend all their money they were getting out of Trump on a shopping spree.
Well, but those examples, Jim, only show that she has a creative imagination.
That's right.
And that's in the court.
She has a creative imagination.
They could use her in Hollywood.
Well, you know, the one thing that is corroborating that, that wasn't just fantasy, is that there was the very famous interview of her with, what's his name, Cooper, the, you know, the Cooper guy.
On the news?
Yeah, on the news.
He's one of these, you know, Anderson Cooper.
Anderson Cooper, thank you.
Yeah.
And there's at some point a moment where he gets disconcerted because she says, you know, rape is considered sexy.
And he just, he just absolutely starves because of this people who break from the interview.
And then she claims rape sexy.
That kind of fits with what you were just saying here.
For her, it's like a fantasy, a staple fantasy.
She's a fantasist beyond measure.
And, you know, it just showed the corruption of the judicial system in New York that they'd even make a case out of this because it was obvious to everyone there was nothing to it.
Nothing to it.
And as I said, it's so blatant you can't even remember the year.
How could he defend himself?
How could he defend, doesn't even know the year from crying out loud?
But also the details of the forensics of the best women allegation, it's physically impossible to just do that, especially in one of those fancy schmancy shops where if you're Trump and you walk in and smelling of money, they will just cling to you.
You can't go anywhere incognito.
Yeah.
So I think there's a recent Gallup poll showing support for masty population had gone from a high of 56% to now 30.
And a similar deflation has occurred with Omega movement, I'm convinced.
The guy who promised to end these stupid wars, he's not ending them, he's supporting them.
Would you believe he actually asked Zelensky, this is like 10 days ago, if the United States were to provide longer-range missiles, could he hit Moscow and St. Petersburg?
Can you imagine?
Can you imagine?
I mean, these are two of the most precious cities in history.
And the idea, this is supposed to encourage Russia to settle on Trump terms when Russia has won the war.
You got one and a half billion dead Ukrainians, maybe 150,000 Russians.
Putin mishandled it because he could have settled immediately.
There was originally an armored column about to take Kiev just, you know, within a day or two of the whole business, and he called them back.
It was a huge mistake.
But the fact is, Russia wants to keep all the territory.
They want no NATO.
They want demilitarization, denazification.
Zelensky wants withdrawal from all the territories, all of them to join NATO, to get compensation from Russia.
I mean, this is insane.
It's just insane.
And Trump to support Zelensky under these circumstances, and he's another pervert, of course, so he fits right in.
And then on a so far from settling out in Gaza, you know, he's told him they just got to get the job done.
And he's talked all this absurd stuff, as you well know, about having a Trump plaza casino radiant.
And it's ludicrous.
And he could have cut off all the money in the bombs for the slaughter with a stroke of a pen, all the money in the bombs for Ukraine, the stroke of a pen instead of bombs Iran.
Now, Bibi comes and he stays there two days, meaning he didn't get everything he wanted the first day.
But you know, Trump actually said in public, this is the greatest man in the world.
A Bibi Nanyahu Trump's added the greatest man in the world.
It's insane.
Yeah, it is.
They got the goods on Trump, I'm telling you.
They got the goods on him.
You read those three blogs, you'll catch up on a lot of good stuff.
Yeah, this is soul-destroying because maybe this is the only chance we have to have this all mended.
And there's just so much good happening.
I mean, there's so much good, but also so much bad.
I just want to point out that the tariffs are phenomenal, but it's all huge sums of money that go to the government.
We still don't have Catherine Austin Fitz's public life accounting that we, the people, could track where that money is going.
At the same time, there's HUD that has, I think it was HUD that laundered 43 trillion since the late 90s.
That all went into black projects for the military.
And those black projects are torturing us to death with directed energy weapons.
And it explains why they don't want to see any ways and means of finding out who's doing all of this and all the other criminality that's going on inside of government and outside.
They just don't want to hear it because they don't want to be exposed.
The problem is when you start a program like this, it does everything.
It's not a question of you can you can try to focus it by not looking, but it's going to do everything.
There's a parallel here with Groke.
Did you hear this Elon Musk AI?
It was spewing out all these truths about Mossad, about Israel running the American government, Mossad controlling Trump, all this other stuff, the horrors of the genocide.
It was spewing out all these truths.
So you've had to reprogram it.
I mean, it's just appalling.
It's so blatant.
Yeah.
Well, here's the thing, the bits of AI I've seen so far that people send me, it's just rehashing stuff that's already out there.
I mean, it's not generating, it's not meant to generate new data.
Of course, the point is an objective program that isn't affected by human emotions, doesn't have any political preferences, gives you the truth.
And when the truth comes out, they reprogram it.
So it won't.
I mean, it's just embarrassing.
The biggest problem with this AI stuff, and when we see the big AI summary on Google instead of following the links yourself, is that the source gets lost.
And it matters what the source is.
It's the source, the FCI headquarters and the NSC server.
So it's the source, the actual websites of researchers.
And at CERN, basically, we did try to use neural networks for our particle physics analyses, because it would be great if you had a learning algorithm telling you how best to identify an electron versus a muon and how to reconstruct all these events.
And the reason why we actively decided not to use neural nets and the beginning of the eye is because with time, you might get an answer very quickly, but checking the uncertainty on that answer will become exponentially bigger.
So in other words, the longer you just let it learn by itself, the less you know what the hell it actually did learn.
I mean, if it's performing a trillion ops a minute, for example, you're going to verify a trillion operations and give us a break.
Yep.
Dang.
That's going to be one computer dump you don't want to use.
There's actually a precedent with high frequency trading.
I think it was called the May glitch.
It has a name on the stock market, but it was high frequency trading algorithms that had a fault.
I mean, now we can argue if the intelligence agencies also the banking crime parcel introduced it by themselves.
But anyway, the bottom line is some glitch happened and there was some 10 seconds or a minute and a half, a fairly short period, where these high frequency trading algorithms went crazy.
Well, they stopped it and then they discovered to reconstruct everything and find out what went wrong would take years just to be long, you know, log fast because of the high frequency nature of it.
So that kind of shows humanity that everything has to happen at a certain speed.
Anything that's important, like currency and information, war decisions, draw, you know, validated at every step.
And validated at every step.
You can use AI.
It's been monitored all the time.
Yeah.
You can use AI for these problems where checking the answer is really quick, like in a mathematical equation.
If it gives you the answer and you can plug it back in and say, hey, that is the answer or a answer.
That's great.
But when you have these open-ended problems and you end up with a solution and you have to find out if it's the right one, well, finding out if it's the right one might take you longer than doing it yourself.
A key point, I think, about this Trump business is that he represents a national security threat to the United States because he's making decisions under duress.
Lavrov, who's the most experienced politician in the world today, by far the most competent, said Moscow was puzzled by all these statements that Trump has been making, these threats, that he's going to, you know, after 50 days, maybe give Zelensky these long-range missiles.
And they're puzzled.
What does the 50 days mean?
He said they've heard before 24 hours.
They've heard 100 days.
What does 50 days mean?
He said Trump was being subjected to indecent pressure.
And I think when he used that word indecent, he meant all the Epstein files.
But I'm telling you, Trump made his own bed.
And now he's got real problems because he's losing Mega big time.
This afternoon, before we could initiate our conversation, I was watching my wife's favorite channel, MSNBC.
And they have three commentaries.
If you want criticism of Trump, it's a good place to go because that's right.
But today was valid criticism.
That was the difference.
They were making valid criticism.
And they were saying how, you know, you got the lower level Republicans who supported him who aren't activists and don't pay attention to these issues.
They really aren't affected.
Then you got a lot of people who really care about him.
And then at the top, you have the influencers, the people who have podcasts and radio TV shows and all that.
And they are especially incensed.
And the problem is now, Trump doesn't have that base of security.
I think now impeachment issues might actually have a prospect of moving forward because you always had the Democrats against it, but now they got a good reason.
You know, it shocks me.
They bring the phony charge against Trump and go at him with great gusto, but when they got a real reason to impeach the guy, they seem to stand off.
That's because so many of them are involved in it too.
Well, I think that's right.
I think that's right.
I have to go back and actually look at these cases with the court settlements and so on, because another side effect of AI that people have already flagged is that AI can generate legitimate-looking court documents.
So one has to really check that those court cases happen.
Because that was actually one of the complaints is that just as much as fake original sources.
Faking original sources.
See, that's what Wikipedia.
Wikipedia does not allow original sources.
When I came into grad school, that was the first lesson we had.
You only use original sources.
They can pick and choose on the secondary and get just the attitude and the kinds of arguments they want to trash or praise anyone they use.
I mean, it's a corrupt methodology from the beginning.
Yeah.
And because I am still amazed that it would be filtered so late in the game, just last minute, because there were so many opportunities to take out Trump with this, if this were legit, long before the assassination attempt and all the machinery that I saw from the FBI.
So I really have to check.
And actually, that was one of the complaints of litigants that I spoke to.
They said the other side is using AI to generate hundreds of pages of stuff that they are submitting to a court case.
And when you are pro se, you just don't have the capacity to work through all that at the time scale that they give you.
So AI generating court documents was a concrete example.
And I really have to just actually dig down.
And the reason why I have to dig down, not because I would be so obsessed with Trump that I couldn't believe anything, but it's just they have tried everything else and I've debunked absolutely every last thing.
Remember the peeing, the Russian hawkers peeing on him in some hotel somewhere.
That was bullshit.
Me Gene Carroll was bullshit.
Yeah, the rape allegations were bullshit.
And at the same time, when Trump is not responding, you know, the other thing is what I see him do is that he's working so hard.
Like really, when you see him, just the whole Middle East trip, it would have flawed a horse.
And he just flies over there and has these meetings and talks to a million people, flies back, just to just traveling back and forth would kill the average person, right?
The average person full stop, not the average person his age.
And yet he does all that.
And then he does come up with really amazing things, the stuff that he does.
And there's this halo of shit around him that are his advisors.
And what comes from them is appalling and gets attributed to Trump again.
So I really have to dig deeper.
I'm sure you've heard Elon Musk proposed a third party, America party.
And I think there's so much disillusion with the Republicans and the Democrats that it could actually be successful.
Gallopoe showed 40% of Americans would support an America party.
And if you divide the other 30, 30, they win.
They win election after election.
I think it could happen.
I originally thought Tulsi Gabbard and Thomas Massey might be a great ticket.
Others have said, well, Tulsi's compromise and suggested in her place Marjorie Taylor Greene.
That's certainly a ticket I can support with enthusiasm.
What do you think?
Is there any prospect that that could happen?
Before you comment, I want to put down a warning flag.
Isn't it, I think it was last week, it was our second interview where we talked about the Elon Musk's party.
Now, Elon Musk, I can show you, is the front of the military industrial complex, who quoted the motto of the Freemasons on the day after the election, November the 6th.
So that's my stance on the America Party.
I personally would have nothing to do with it.
But isn't it telling that you have the Epstein case blowing up the week after this America Party thing?
Isn't it just so convenient that the America Party was slaughtered?
Then MAGA gets divided.
And there's already a holding container to catch all these disgruntled MAGA people who think that Trump is a pedophile.
Do you see what I mean?
Musk could have improper motives, but he might do the right thing in spite of it.
I'm asking whether you think the idea, now you say you wouldn't support America Party, but I don't think you support the Democrats or the Republicans either, right?
Yeah, well, I'm definitely not supporting Democrats.
The Democrats are certainly not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, the, you know, the other parties that exist here, you know, are options that he could use.
He didn't have to clean it.
Libertarian, for example.
Yeah, for example.
Yeah, that's the reduced government party.
That's the real one.
That's the, I guess I'm more, 70% of me is more libertarian, and then the other 30% is Republican.
Zero is Democratic.
Yeah, but it's big.
And remember that all of these are shell structures.
And what actually matters is the people you populate it with.
And the other thing that matters is the movement to go behind it.
I really love the MAGA movement because Make America Great Again, Making Things Great Again encapsulates getting rid of all the deep state, all the corruption and so on.
So before I give up on the MAGA movement or jump ship, I would start chipping away.
And that's what Bill and I did.
We are totally with MAGA that the drive towards making this country a great country again of integrity and chipping away at the corruption as it comes along, but staying the force with the movement that has been built, because it took so many years to create this trade, you know?
Among the commentators on MSNBC, these were three actually exceptionally good commentators.
And I, you know, ordinarily I dismiss anyone on MSNBC, but I go there just to hear what they're saying critical of Trump to assess it.
One of them was saying this whole Epstein thing was so central to his campaign.
Just talking about Cash Patel.
He said Cash Patel went on Fox and like 300 times he talked about exposing The Epstein files.
Then he went on Steve Bannon's, you know, war room.
400 times he talked about exposing the Epstein.
And that was part and parcel of doing away, draining the swamp, destroying the deep state.
Now here he is defending it.
See, this is a dagger to the heart of the mega movement.
I don't think it can survive.
I think it's done.
I think it's over.
Right.
Let's get.
This is the one thing.
I was emotionally like with, I was emotionally with Jen.
This was me on Sunday.
Remember on Sunday when the whole Epstein thing broke and we had to drive to DC and I was done with the world.
We also had some personal backstabbing here from people we thought were friends.
I was done.
I was ready to emigrate back to Europe.
I was done with the US.
And then still.
I heard about it.
Yeah, at 100 decibels.
We still drove to DC.
We still, in good faith, try to get through to Paran.
I still, you know, it's very slow.
But if I get through to that uniform division, if he just tells one other person and there's actual knowledge about directed energy weapons building, because the topic's not going to go away.
The trip was worth it.
Even better views.
And here's what I'm thinking, Jim.
There's such a huge danger of divide and conquer because that has been the Mason's staple.
Order of chaos.
The chaos was created and Elon Musk, who was on my shitlist from the beginning, just to have the solution.
I don't buy it.
So I suggest instead we stay the force.
And if people step out of line, like Pam Bondi, she gets jackets and but the Republicans and the MAGA movement continues because also the republic, it is a republic.
The Democrats were a fraud.
Democracy is a fraud on what we, the people, wanted to build in this country.
It is a republic.
So I'm going to stay with the Republicans, but when warmongers like George Bush come along and hijack the Republicans, you know, and go against the no foreign entanglements to set off, you know, war after war on foreign soil on a fraud.
George Bush has to be jettisoned and the Republicans in the MAGA movement has to continue.
If Pam Blondie is pulling bullshit, she has to be jettisoned and we, like an icebreaker going through the Arctic, have to continue.
Donald Trump is committing pedophilia.
What do you do then?
You throw him off and you get somebody else to the MA figurehead.
I mean, he has.
That's an impeachable act.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want your assessment.
Where do we go from here?
What do you think is going to happen?
Well, I don't know, but the papers we submitted also contained the ways and means of ensuring that evil cannot creep into the system.
And when it does, you can pick it out right away.
And you can ensure that that doesn't happen ad infinitum, as long as the software is running and as long as it's working properly and not touched by other.
For example, like Senator Kennedy said, I think, and I saw a quote by him or attributed to him anyway, that 90% of Congress should be making our license plates.
That's pretty much the way it is with everything and people in positions of power.
Yes.
So, I mean, that's what's covering up.
That's why this whole thing is being covered up.
Remember how you related when you first proposed this?
The authority reacted aghast.
He said, oh, no, we're not going to do that because he would expose himself.
He saw the power of your proposal.
He knew how good it would be, how efficient.
And that caused him fear and trembling.
We're not going to do that.
And they discovered, Jim, that I was putting that, starting to put that back into the thin thread program inside NSA without telling anybody.
And that was one of the first things they got rid of after they took it and bastardized it to spy on everybody.
Too much truth there.
Yeah.
But, you know, there's a really positive way of looking at it is because building thin thread and casting off it building the lies, public accounting of the local, state, and federal level.
That was really the invention, the development.
If it gets destroyed, reassembling it, putting it back in place after the idea has been conceived and it has been created is so much easier.
So recovery from deep capture gets faster and faster when needed people get taught how to recover, how to become resilient against criminals.
Instead of fearing them, you just need a mechanism to eject them out of the system quickly, recognize them and eject them out.
So in other words, we now need to build this immune system so that then the next time the next line Pam Bondi comes along, she gets thrown right out and we continue with somebody else, Matt Gates or whoever that might be.
But the system, the drive towards making America great again is and building a republic that is free from crown slavery.
That's still the same program.
And it just wasn't going to get done in 200 years or 250 years.
It's still work in progress.
We just have to focus on resilient systems and quick recovery from decapture.
That's all I now friend with deep counterintelligence background with whom I was speaking, as you were coming online for us to have a conversation, is emphasizing to me the national security threat of having Trump as president now, because he may try something like a nuclear war is a distraction.
I mean, it boggles the mind.
And I'm afraid he's right.
I think Trump is a national security threat.
Bill, would you agree or not?
I mean, he's under the...
This is really serious.
Well, I keep remembering when he was president that the Iranians stole one of our surveillance drones and forced it down into Iran and took it apart.
And I guess they're designing drones from it.
His advisors were saying we should blow up the intelligence building in Tehran, you know, the head of the intelligence.
And he asked them how many people would we kill?
And they said about 150, we'd guess, you know.
And he said, well, we're not going to do that for an unmanned device.
So I think that shows a bit of his character.
And I don't share that fear.
Yeah, I don't share that fear.
Yo, this is a Trump decision.
Yeah.
There's even a fear that this is the real guy.
There are claims about height difference.
Trump's about 6'1.
They say this guy's more like 5'10.
They're worried there's even a substitute.
We had four years of an imposter president with Biden.
So anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is just grossly mistaken.
The real Joe.
No, I'm not saying you shouldn't be wary of those kinds of things.
I'm just saying from what I see anyway, I don't think that's in his character.
Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea.
That I knew.
Yeah, whose character are we talking about at this point in time?
Yeah.
But I'm also, you know what, with all this, what the mainstream media and what the covert sources want all the time is that something blows up and just in the aftermath of this detonation of a piece of news, you make rash decisions.
And I always prefer the icebreaker approach, where you might hit a particularly hard block of ice, but you continue on the previous trajectory.
You might log it.
You might say, hey, we have our questions about this person or that person.
Because remember, the way that my investigative team, the Technical Crime Fighters Forum, was broken up was overnight.
And overnight, I went from being the person they went to to try to get chips measured to being a bad person, to being, according to the claims of Ramula Darmaraj, a double agent that she couldn't claim which two governments I'm supposed to work for.
She couldn't tell me one, let alone two governments.
So I went from, you know, somebody was working hard to help people to a supposed double agent overnight without proof.
Do you see what I mean?
And now with AI, what we consider proof can be generated just so quickly.
So when I give up on an entire movement or an entire person who has just worked, I mean, it's undeniable that Trump has worked harder.
I've watched all his rallies.
He would do three or four sometimes leading up to the election.
That guy worked so hard before I give up on that.
And also, the other side had all the time in the world to throw any shit at him.
And they did.
And 100% of it was complete garbage.
So now when they come with 101, I really, really, really, really want to dig deep.
Catherine, I'm telling you, this stuff is real.
Everything I can tell is real.
Yeah, it's just amazing because also the way he comes across, everything about him was just consistent.
You know, but it was consistent with the person who is.
I mean, you know, he surrounds himself with beautiful women like a billionaire would.
And he's honest.
You know, even the pussy grabbing comment was 100% truth.
If you're a billionaire, yes, there are many women who will let you grab them by the pussy.
100% undiluted truth.
Exactly, Trump.
But, you know, now to fit that with the pedophile image, it just doesn't fit from everything that I've seen.
You know?
You got an assignment.
Exactly.
I put my work cut out.
Gosh, I'm still getting lost before the trip.
I'm not going to get on to research.
Talk next week.
I want to get an assessment from you of what you discover and what you take to be true and what you take to be false.
Yeah, let's dive deep because everything, that's another thing that people need to know is that at every step, the deep state will try to contaminate evidence, make the real evidence look like a fraud and make fraud look like real evidence.
But at every step, if you run the forensics deep enough and well enough, you can't figure out what's what.
You can't figure out who's lying.
Yeah.
And Bill, I think you remain a threat to the deep state.
You have been for over 20 years now.
And they see you coming and they ought to shut you off at the pass.
And I don't expect in the foreseeable future there's going to be any change.
I'd say you could go back to Washington a dozen more times and the result would be the same.
Sad to sad.
I think we are pretty much through with going up there trying to push stuff at them.
They're going to have to invite us.
It has to be a genuine invite.
It's not going to be serious.
Yeah, it has to be serious.
But it doesn't mean that we will stop trying, but we'll change it.
We're going to do it in the public, I think.
Yeah.
Yes, I think that's a great idea.
Great idea.
And I'd be proud to publish any blogs you want to write.
Just know you got that open invitation, okay?
Thank you.
You're two of my favorite people and fabulous.
And it's just a great pleasure for me to have these opportunities.
And I thank you once again.
And let's see how the world spins next week.
I've even taken any of my shows, even though I'm an agnostic saying, God willing.
I say next week, God willing.
Yeah, yeah.
And you're wonderful.
Thank you both so much.
Thank you.
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