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July 10, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:07:24
Real Deal SPECIAL (9 July 2025): Bill Binney and Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
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Well, it's my great pleasure to have a third interview with Bill Binney and Catherine Horton right here.
It's a real deal special.
The first two, particularly the second, has been fascinating, where Bill explained how, because there's a national archive of every conversation, every digital transmission that has taken place in the past, it can be used to mine, if you know what you're looking for, all kinds of callbret pedophiles, traitors, blah, blah, blah.
But yet when Bill, 20 years ago, went to the government to explain how it could be done, he was rebuffed.
And as I put it then, we had a conflict between integrity represented by Bill and his technique and authority represented by the government, where the authority has no integrity, doesn't want to be exposed, and the integrity doesn't have the authority to get it done.
That's my bottom line on this.
Bill, is that an apt summary?
Yeah, that's pretty good, Jim.
That's pretty accurate, too, because that's exactly what happened.
Yeah, exactly what happened.
They told me very plainly, you are never going to do this program.
Can you imagine how horrified they were when you're explaining to them that they realized they themselves could be outed?
Yep.
That's it.
Add the study, studied.
Catherine, your thoughts too.
I mean, that was a wonderful, wonderful interview.
And we got quite a few comments about it.
I think that that's what people have to take away from all this is that the solution was already there a quarter of a century ago, 25 years ago, the solution was already there to uncover any and all organized crime.
And it has been buried.
And the guy who can revive it is being slowly tortured to death.
That's what people need to understand.
So it's really time critical that the Trump administration finally understands that if they really want to return the country to integrity, it can be done much faster and much cheaper than they maybe have ever dreamt of.
But they have to act.
Yeah, and it has to include in that process cleansing the government at all levels of management.
Because it's all the way through that organization.
Yes.
Well, I think you're a dobistic parallel to Julian Assange.
I mean, you know, you're exposing secrets the government doesn't want to expose.
You're being hit with all that targeted directed energy horse shit.
You wouldn't know, but I'm being hit with over 600 sadistic videos attacking me because they're worried that my Sandy Hook case may be reversed.
And there's this group within the Sandy Hook community called Sandy Hook Promise that's making a million bucks a month off of a hoax that I was exposing, but where they had a judge in place who wouldn't allow any of my evidence to be admitted so he could claim there were no disputed facts.
I didn't have the benefit of a jury so he could rule.
I even had two forensic document experts build and say that I was right when I declared this death certificate that was a version of which was published in a book was fake.
They said all four of the death certificates, different versions for the same purported deceit and all four were fake.
Two, not one forensic document expert.
Two, unopposed, and the judge just set them aside.
He said they weren't helpful.
And of course they weren't helpful if you wanted to find me guilty.
It was just insulting.
You know, at some point, is there a mechanism to bring criminal charges against the judge?
Oh, the judge, he, he, Catherine, he, because I have four appeals pending, and they're very substantial that I initiated late last year based on new evidence, and it's powerful.
He retired on the 3rd of May, five and a half years prematurely, where his term didn't expire until 1 August 2030, because he could foresee they were either going to recuse him from the case, which is embarrassing enough, or remove him from the bench, would have been the ultimate disaster.
He came from a family of lawyers.
So to avoid what he saw coming, he's retired early.
I mean, five and a half years early.
Well, here's one idea.
So the reporter Janet Selen uncovered, or Phelan uncovered that corrupt judges very often are being paid off with mortgages.
So maybe you want to, if you can look up his home address, look up any record on the mortgage or the value of the property, because what she discovered is that a judge would buy a $16 million house and pay off the mortgage in two to three years on a salary of 200,000.
Catherine, I already know he was working for the Sandy Hook Ops.
I mean, I already know.
It's a divided community.
There are three parts.
I've mentioned the Sandy Hook promise.
Those are the money grubbers who regard me as a threat.
And there's a group, including two of the participants, one of the victim child, Emily Parker, and one of the teachers who heroically saved her class, Victoria Soto, who are on my side.
They felt it was wrong.
I was being subjected to this legal abuse, and they reached out to me through a third party with whom I've had hundreds of conversations.
So I know what's been going on.
They even provided me with additional evidence, including the Connecticut FEMA schedule showing that this event was scheduled as exercise L366.
I mean, it's right there on the schedule.
They even said on map how to get from Bridgeport, Connecticut, down to Dickinson Drive where the school was located for the drill, for the drill.
Yeah.
You know, another marker that shows who you're dealing with, I remember one article you sent me that the gun manufacturer paid damages to the tunnel 37 machine?
77 million.
37 million?
Because I remember distinctly, I even downloaded the one article I saw back then.
It clearly said 33 million.
And I thought, ooh, there's the amazing.
actually, I think it was 77.
But here's the deal: I sought enter as an amicus friend of the court to explain all the evidence I had that it hadn't been a real shooting in both of the Alex Jones in Texas, Connecticut, and in the Remington in Connecticut.
All parties opposed me.
Nobody wanted me to be involved in the case in any way.
And my reasoning, I think, on the Remington is they believe that what's ultimately going to happen is gun control legislation requiring insurance for every weapon.
And if it goes forward, they stand to make billions upon billions in gun insurance.
So I think they're happy to have it go forward.
And it was not 33, 77.
33 obviously is a magic number.
We all know.
We all know.
77 is what the intelligencies use.
My gosh.
You know, so it will turn out that gun manufacturers will make more money off insurance than the actual original guns, much like car salesmen.
It's an ever-giving thing, right?
Yeah.
Every year, you pay.
Exactly, because car salesmen make most of their money from financing, not even off the cars.
But the whole thing is such a sham, and my evidence is so powerful.
So these Sandy Promise people appear to have, I've actually been told, hired a character assassin who describes himself as a gonzo artist.
And if you were to go on to BitChute or Rumble and put in Victor Hugo, Jim Fetzer, you'll be astonished.
I mean, you've never seen hundred upon hundred upon hundred of videos where he spends time on the cover art and the titles.
So he's a, I call this political pornography because he's doing all kinds of attacks on me and friends of mine who actually have spoken up on my behalf.
He claims I threw my Sandy Hook lawsuit when I not only appealed it in Wisconsin through the Wisconsin Supreme Court, but carried it to the U.S. Supreme Court.
And now I'm back in court with four appeals panning.
I mean, how can I have thrown it?
But this is his basic theme.
It's absurd, Catherine.
Absurd.
One question of fact.
Is that the Victor Hugo I met on one of your shows?
I would have been.
Because I warned you of that guy, Jim.
Afterwards, I told you.
I told you.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I warned you.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I mean, I dropped him after he wasn't on very long, but what happened was he's made his mantra, it's the Jews, with no qualification.
You know, every problem is the Jews.
He's like a broken record.
And Brian Davidson is a very responsible guy.
I had the two of them as commentators on a show I do on Sundays, now Mondays, called Truth versus News, where I present the stories and they're the commentators.
Well, he pulled this, it's a Jews thing.
It's a Jews one too many times for Brian, who said, no, no, no, it's more complicated and nuanced and began to explain why just saying it's a Jews doesn't cut it.
So Brian actually, rather than stay on with Victor, whom you arrive about, left at that point at the half break.
It was two hours with a break in the middle and didn't come back.
Well, it was when I discovered Victor was attacking him as a coward, which I knew to be untrue, that I gave Victor the boot.
But now, you know, if you went on to my blog at jameshvenzer.org and go to an open letter to Victor Hugo Vaca II, it's all laid out.
You can see the four appeals pending and all that.
And the fact is, he dragged in a couple of attorneys who are either sloppy or corrupt.
I can't see any alternative explanation to support it.
And one said, oh, I should have handled it completely differently.
And he didn't have to read any of my briefs.
He didn't have to have read the book.
He just knew that because I hadn't moved the case to federal court, you know, and claimed diversity and then the federal issues, because it was freedom of speech and freedom of the press, for which I was being sued, right, for defamation.
But, you know, what did I know at that time?
I couldn't get an attorney to represent.
We wrote to I and my co-defendant, Mike Palichak, who had also, you know, we co-edited the book.
We wrote, we reached out to 70 attorneys in Wisconsin.
Nobody wanted to touch it.
It was a hot potato.
You get blacklisted, actually.
You'll see with the targeted individual cases.
I do not know of any lawyer anywhere in the U.S. or in Europe, in any country that ever took on a targeted individual case.
Well, there's one case that was the lawyer of Philip Kerr, in the case of Philip Kerr versus Attorney General in the London High Court, in Philip Kerr versus MI5.
But that guy was a multi-millionaire businessman.
He found the lawyer, his money got somewhere.
But for the average person, you get actually actively blacklisted.
And I have one UK victim who got his lawyer to tell him to his face, we were told not to take cases like yours.
Yeah, yeah.
Not to take cases like mine.
Exactly.
And the thing is, the question is, the lawyer didn't say who we were, or rather who they were, who told them, right?
But I presume it's the Bar Association.
I think this sort of mechanism is done through the bar.
Well, here's the deal.
He's been committing criminal harassment, defamation, of course.
Also, because he was trying to induce a heart attack.
He got another medical.
I mean, it wasn't a secret I'd had a heart attack a couple Of years ago.
So he's even talked about maybe I'm going to drop dead.
You know, he's trying to get me into a state where I'm going to react emotionally.
People often, when I'm just normally reacting, think I'm going to have a heart attack.
So, you know, what the hell?
You might as well play that card too.
So it's also elder abuse.
I mean, I'm 84, right?
I'll be 85 in December.
And now he's gone pornographic.
This is something he'd done in Florida back in 2008.
The New Times, a publication in Florida, said this might be the strangest character in Miami because he'd hug a four-foot-long abstract of male genitalia out his window, right?
So now, now, get this, Catherine.
He's now even selling underwear.
He's got one for me that has this thing, you know, located on it.
And it's just absurd.
It's just absurd.
Look, everything you said about it is batch and crazy, but everything fits perfectly with the standard profile of these intelligence minions, intelligence agency minions, because it's very, it's a sex and death cult behind all this.
So there's always a lot of justice, smart bullshit, sex, features, and all the cases I've ever dealt with.
He is so Intel minion through and through.
The other thing I wanted to point out on day one, when I first came across this character on your show, the clue is in the name, Victor Hugo.
He wrote stories.
All right.
It's made up stories.
This appears to be his actual name, though.
He's got a father, Victor Hugo Vaca.
Maybe it's his real name.
I want to figure out, do they pick these people and then they train them according to their name?
Because we have Bernie Mados with Billions.
I had a PI, you know, run the background on the guy.
And he's got fathers about my age, actually.
It's a horrific case.
I filed an initial grim complaint with the local police here in my village of Oregon.
It was over their head.
I went to the municipal judge, so I directed it to her.
She said she can't do that.
You have to go to the DA.
So I filed with the district attorney of Dane County.
He's got the complaint.
And every day he's adding to it.
I mean, he's committing more of these offenses.
Meanwhile, I'm going to bitch you to rumble for violating their terms of service because this is so far over the top in terms of everything they claim they're doing with the public.
And they believe that they have immunity from liability.
But there are circumstances under which that immunity expires, no longer applies, such as when they're participating in the offenses committed, what they're doing.
I sent them cease and desist way back.
I mean, three months ago, and they did absolutely nothing.
So now I have formalized a bigger deal to set up potential default judgment against them if they don't respond within 30 days of my having sent, which occurred on the 1st of July.
So, you know, I'm in a position now where I can actually file a formal motion for a default judgment.
And, I mean, the damages potentially are enormous.
I mean, in the millions of dollars.
They weren't just attacking me.
They were talking four or five of my colleagues who were stepping up and saying, no, no, no, Victor, you got it all wrong.
And he'd take it out of context, twist it, attack them in vicious and sadistic ways.
I mean, it is grotesque.
I would love to get this before a jury because if they were just to look at all these titles and these vicious, I call it political pornography, the way he makes up these covers, they're so awful.
I mean, you'll get a chance, you know, just go to bitch you didn't put in Victor Hugo comic Jim Fetzer, you'll be overwhelmed.
But really, I'm here to talk with you guys.
And the fact is that Bill and you, Catherine, are very like Edward Snowden.
And, you know, it's just astonishing to me how many those who are trying to expose the truth wind up being savaged and abused.
And in your case, physically by the targeted attacks.
How are you doing physically?
I know after we did the last, Bill was subjected to a horrendous attack.
Unbelievable.
Bill, I'm so glad you survived.
I mean, this is potentially, these attacks are potentially fatal.
Well, it lasted about a day, I think.
It's pretty bad.
Yeah, it was extremely intense.
And so for those who don't know, when Bill's lower legs were amputated following bioweapon attacks, the hospital put in remote controllable microchips that can mimic the body's pain signal.
So because the chips generate a synthetic pain signal, it can be much stronger than what the body can produce.
So Bill was just crying out in pain every 10 to 20 seconds, agonizing pain, shaking violently from pain.
And there's nothing wrong with him.
There's no natural explanation of it.
So, but it was going on for a day and that is extremely exhausting.
And then I think it continued the next day on the other leg.
So they also algorithmically switched from one leg to the next.
There's no innocent explanation for what you're saying.
No natural, organic, whatever, no medical, whatever.
Yeah, I agree, of course.
So I've been eager to talk with you today because it seemed to me what's going on now over the Epstein case is just astonishing.
I think the Trump administration has lost all semblance of credibility.
You got the Attorney General, you got the director of the FBI and his deputy, and they're all declaring Epstein killed himself in jail, and that there is no Epstein list.
And you got Ghislaine Maxwell convicted.
I mean, isn't that amazing?
What was she convicted of?
I know if there was no list and there was no child trafficking and what happened to Virginia Roberts Guthrie, you know, and it's all awful.
The more reliable reports I have is Epstein is in Israel continuing his blackmail ops.
And this may fascinate you.
Henry Macau has been emphasizing that he thinks they got Trump by the shorthairs for having had sex with his daughter, Ivanka.
He's convinced of it.
There are a couple of photos on his site where she's looking at him adoringly.
It's all very inappropriate.
And honestly, I think he's probably got it right.
So, I mean, it's that bad.
Your thought?
My thought is, number one, because there was so much in what you said.
Number one, I completely agree that Epstein most definitely is still alive.
Absolutely, freaking definitely.
I remember the picture of the corpse that was shown where it looks a bit blue in the face.
The nose shape, the ear shape, it didn't look like Epstein at all.
It was somebody who completely had his hair color, but in profile, it looked nothing like Epstein's.
So whatever body was wheeled out was definitely not Epstein's.
Now, these kind of body switches and plays with corpses is what the intelligence agencies do Monday to Sunday.
It's nothing, it's not even hard.
So the pathologist also, and this is something that people have to think about, how the hell did the pathologist know it was Epstein on the table?
He never commented on that.
He only commented on the fact that it looked like he was strangulated by a man, by somebody in the room, because the bruises were not high up from hanging.
They were much lower down like a man would actually strangulate you.
Let me just interrupt you there.
They got a photograph there that shows a red line as though it were from a Garrett with a wine.
Garrett, yes, yes, exactly.
Not what you would have if he was hung by a sheet at all.
Not even remotely.
I mixed up cases.
Yes, it was the Garrett.
It was the red line, I remember it.
But either way, the positioning was wrong.
Then the injury was wrong.
The photo of the corpse was wrong.
And then also the pathologist.
Well, maybe, you know, once people are dead, they look a bit different, especially when they're blue in the face.
But even so, I would ask, did you even check it was Epstein to start with?
Because the pathologist report would typically have no comment on that.
Even if you check, you would pull up dental records, which the intel agencies change in transit.
The same with DNA records.
So when you deal with the intelligence agencies, you have to be so much smarter than Cash Patel and Vongino are put together.
Yeah.
They are complete amateurs.
I don't think they have a clue.
Bill.
I was going to add, you know, it's a good reason not to expose all the evidence they had.
Yes.
Because if you do that, you lose leverage on all the people that are involved.
Right, right, right.
I mean, that's what J. Edgar Hoover did, right?
In the Congress, he had leverage on everybody, Republican, Democrat, everybody.
Edgar was very clever, and then the mob had leverage on Edgar.
Yeah.
Yeah, the one problem with that is that that is a solution that governments and council people have stooped to.
But I would say right now, it's actually mandatory to cycle out of that system of neutral black now.
I mean, that actually is the crown system.
They set up rings.
The symbol of these cabal networks are rings where everybody has a compromise on everybody else.
So they, you know, it's one big circle jerk, basically.
But to cycle out of that in something more productive, you have to start taking people out.
You have to start removing the people you would have a control file on, which would be people in Congress, people in business.
At some point, you have to flush the system.
You have to drain the swamp.
If you just put yourself out there to be the master of the swamp, I have news for Trump and the Trump team.
They are even bigger and most ruthless bastards out there.
So I would not want to try to win the game by beating them at their own blackmail.
That will never work.
Mathematically, it is impossible because they have even more control files.
They have even more control file generators like Epsvine.
I mean, Diddy popped up, but I can tell you there's many more than Diddy.
There are people in France, in England, all across the US who regularly, I think roughly once per month, so every two to three months, generate a fresh control file that typically involves violent rape and murder.
So, you know, at some point we have to start bashing out these people.
And the Epstein is absolutely mandatory.
Yep.
And there's all kinds of garbage on W. George H.W. Bush was involved in a lot of this child sex business, Dick Cheney.
They said the girls feared Dick Cheney because he was so endowed.
I mean, you know, this Transformation of America book is really stunning and very revealing, but so disturbing that the highest ranking officials of our government are engaged in all this, but it appears to be confirmed in spades by the OLEP steam fiasco.
Bill, how can this government pretend to any credibility when it's covering up so massive?
The whole world sees through this.
The mega movement is just stunned and in a shambles.
Well, I don't know how they can because, you know, just in the one aspect that I think I mentioned the last time we were on with you, talking about the tweet repeat, retweeting of tweets from Epstein.
If you looked at the numbers of people that kept retweeting his tweets, you see the people who he's involved with or people who knew him well enough and were appreciated his aspect of what he was living to retweet it.
I mean, that kind of sets up a whole set of people who were probably or very likely involved in his activities, whatever that was.
Yes.
And so, I mean, that from the from the evidence I had just off the tweet list, there was at least a thousand people there.
Where are they?
Yeah, I mean, you should, it should also be said that just retweeting somebody's content.
It makes them suspicious, that's all.
Yes, but what I'm saying is when you are the act of bringing an FBI, you have something much more tangible, like actual telecommunication content where people would have arranged meetings.
They would have arranged the flights out to Epstein Island.
They would have conversed about it.
These people are not exactly discreet about it.
They don't use secret code that the NSA could never break when they are discussing their pedestal activities.
Tweets one domain that's involved that would help you define the community you had and phone calls, then emails, then messages of any kind.
Mail, you know, bite logs, all that kind of stuff should collapse into defining his community's participant.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
That should be easy to get.
I mean, that would be like a three-second job.
If I, when I did the program, I had been a three-second job.
You're just talking about relative frequency of communication for crying out loud.
That too.
I think the real problem is that, and I see that in everything that Trump tackles, that has nothing to do with his areas of expertise, because his areas of expertise is deal making.
He wrote the art of the deal and real estate, business deals.
That's why he excels in trade deals.
Everything is that that's a business.
He has incredible business sense.
That's his homeground.
But he has absolutely no technical understanding or scientific understanding because he just wasn't in that field.
Now, just like I am not going to get into high-rise property developments in New York because I don't know the first thing about it, when he tries to come up with something in the technical field, he has no idea.
And his advisors are calling and are mostly lawyers or people who have media degrees.
That's the real problem.
He has no actual technical, somebody in a technical field with integrity would say, listen, a back of the envelope calculation would tell you that Cash Patel, or rather this agency of 38,000 people in one week should get you several thousand or tens of thousands of child abusers, not 200.
When they give you 200, they found 200 fall guys.
That's it.
It's probably somebody who stepped out of line and pissed them the hell off.
When you get rid of them, the criminal deep state FBI will work better than it did before.
Right?
So that back of the envelope calculation tells you that if your agency comes back with this, you rip it up and you sack everybody who thought that was a good idea.
And you keep sacking layers of management until you're down to the people who actually can run investigations and you work with them.
Does that sound right?
Well, something like that is a process.
You have to have some way to weed them out.
Yeah.
And I just say every time somebody stands up to oppose one of these good ideas, they're a part of it.
Get ready.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, your technique could expose all these burps in five minutes max.
I mean, you name the category, you could expose it, but it's effortless.
Yeah, how insulting at the higher levels, but it's because they are complicit themselves.
I mean, it's no stretch to say Trump wants a bury because Trump is in there.
He's in the files.
You know, that's the thing.
He appeared in the file, I think, when he flew to Bedminster and he hitched a ride.
But even the victim, Victoria Guiffré, said that he was never part of that.
That's true.
She trusted Trump because he was never part of the.
She was never tripped out by him, right?
The other thing is, so I think we have to be careful.
The other thing, Jim, to keep in mind, if he had been genuinely a client or had done anything shady, don't you think they would have dug up that, you know, and thrown that in by him?
Well, that's where I think Henry McCow is probably on the right track.
That it was Ivanka, that that's what they've got on Trump.
And I believe it myself.
My wife used to say these things about Trump having sex with his daughter, and I dismissed it.
But I've reached a point now I think probably it's true.
I'm sorry to say.
I mean, what's the proof for that?
Because I've never met.
All kinds of circumstantial, including photographs that look very inappropriate.
She's often sitting on his lap.
She's looking at him in an adoring way.
He's kissing her.
I mean, it's not directly on the lips as a rule, but I mean, Katson, there's a whole lot out there.
A place to start, we go to HenryMacau.com because Henry's got a couple photographs right there.
And if he's right, it started at a fairly young age when she was like about 12.
I don't know if she'd actually passed through puberty already.
But there are other photographs I've seen that are, you know, I thought, a little too suggestive.
And I've been a strong Trump guy for so very long until he started to blow everything apart.
You know, his foreign policy, what a catastrophe.
Is he even going to nuke Iran for Bibi?
You know, I mean, that question has arisen, of course, to promote the ethnic cleansing of Palestine grotesque Trump hotels in Gaza.
Gag me with a spoon.
I mean, this is awful.
Bill, can you believe this kind of happy horseshit?
I mean, from President of the United States?
Yeah, I don't know where he's coming up with all this stuff.
I think people come up with it for him.
That's the thing.
And I don't think.
But who?
Those are the people that should be fired.
Yeah, I think so.
I think somebody should, well, first of all, who should be fired for this?
I think Pam Bondi needs to go.
Because just this week, we also got a letter from Millicent.
Dr. Millicent Lack is an African-American bastard who's been implanted.
I saw her medical scans, I saw her x-rays.
She has a voice-to-scale device.
She was tortured by a former intimate partner who was actually on record to be a contractor for Lockheed Martin.
He's a former, he's a U.S. Air Force veteran.
He told her things about this torture program and the involvement of drones that she wouldn't, it was impossible to know otherwise.
And he told her to her face that he got rich, basically.
She made him filthy rich.
But anyway, so she is extremely tortured, a really high profile victim with a lot of medical evidence.
And she reached out to the DOJ and just got a letter.
And they said, oh, it's a local police matter.
Well, the local police are overwhelmed by just a gangstalking case.
It's nonsense.
This is a DOJ matter.
Shutting down the targeted individual program is absolutely a DOJ matter.
Across its borders and state borders.
Yeah.
And so I think Pam Bondi and the entire DOJ needs to go.
The other question is when you have, you bring in new people like Bonjino Cash and Pam Bondi, even if they were of high integrity, unless there's a colour of the top two to three levels of management, it's worthless.
Unless there are mass sackings, it is worthless because these organizations, they have been conducting these criminal operations.
The people at the highest levels are those who have been staging these false slag attacks in the FBI.
They use their local knowledge, their local network.
They hired the crisis actors.
They coordinated FEMA.
You know, they did the cover-up.
They came after you.
They sent Victor Hugo your way.
So you just can't come in like Bongino and Cash did and not sack a single soul.
You set yourself up to be, I think what actually happened, to be threatened and intimidated by those psychopaths and serial killers that are one management level below you.
Well, it's like Obama fired everybody that was a political appointment by the Republicans when he came in.
With one exception, yeah, he kept one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All the U.S. attorneys, right?
He fired all but one.
Then he brought in his own people.
Now that that embeds those people in his that process in multiple layers.
And it's still there.
Some of it's still there.
Do you know who the one was that he kept on?
In Southern District of New York, which is the most important one.
It may have been, but we could look it up.
I mean, it's easily.
My point is that the person he kept was the one who was the plant all along.
That's why he kept him.
Of course.
We agree.
100%.
He was already their man.
What do you think of this Elon Musk idea of a third-party America party?
I personally like the idea.
I'm interested.
Do not walk into that, Jim.
It was in December after I watched Elon Musk's performance ever since he randomly joined the MAGA movement, joined last minute.
I was horrified more and more by Elon Musk.
I mean, he tweeted the motto of the Freemasons the day after the election, Novus Ordo Seclorum, a new order for the ages, right?
He did the Hitler salute in the Madison Square Garden where there was a Hitler rally after the entire mass media talked about a Hitler rally for an entire week leading up to that Trump rally.
And then he does a Hitler salute as obvious as one can do one.
You know, come on, coming from South Africa.
And the bullshit just kept accumulating.
It was just in December that he also seemed to have predicted the explosion of the Tesla at that Trump hotel outside.
He just tweeted three days before a Tesla that had the kind of like the look of an explosion painted on the outside.
So anyway, this Elon Musk character is dodgy as hell.
For me, he's a front of the military-industrial complex because it is physically impossible to run all these high-tech companies and actually do a good job.
You know, it's not.
He's claiming to promote missions to Mars we know to be impossible.
You know, he's doing a whole lot of stuff.
Starlink, he's let it be used by Israel.
I think he's let it be used by Ukraine.
I mean, that's pretty bad.
Yeah.
Bill, what's your assessment of Elon Moss?
Often called the richest man in the world, though I doubt it.
Your thoughts?
Well, I think he takes advantage of the quick and easy.
It is to get things quick and fast, like the things he did under Doge.
That was just looking at surface stuff.
Most of it, Office of Management Budget already figured that out and gave it to him.
And it was kind of looking at the people of people who are over 100 years old on Social Security, how many of them, you know.
Right, right, right.
There's a simple e-rep band will get you all that stuff.
You know, it will, but the government hadn't been doing anything even as simple as that.
I mean, you have to.
I know.
That's why I say it's just doing the simple stuff at the top.
There's no real substance to going deep and really solving the problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The government hasn't even done the simple stuff, you know, to get rid of people over 100 or 130.
I think there was somebody 190 who was still collecting Social Security.
Give me a break.
I thought they had somebody on there that was older than the country.
I would be surprised.
I would be surprised.
But going back to this newest party thing, so it was in December when I pinned a post I put out on TrueSocial, which predicted that Elon Musk will destroy or will try to destroy everything Trump has built when he's done the king-ass.
And that's exactly what happened.
When it came to the big, beautiful Trojan bill that has a lot of junk in it and awful stuff, but it didn't have the subsidies that Elon has relied on his entire career.
Well, then he turned.
And I think he thought he could buy or bamboozle or razzle dazzle Donald Trump into actually giving him handouts.
And I think that's a sign that Donald Trump couldn't be bought.
He couldn't be razzle-dazzled.
He stayed the course.
And that's what set off Elon Musk, but Elon Musk is a dreadful character, and I don't think he has even that great achievements.
He is a front of the military-industrial complex, like the Google Boys were front for an NSA project that was stolen from you.
So it's, I'm glad.
Good riddance.
His new party, I don't trust it from the inception.
What about the idea of a new party if you took Musk out of it?
I mean, we already have it.
The libertarians, why didn't he go libertarian?
Libertarians?
It's established, you know, we could build off that.
Yeah, I personally, for all his faults, Trump has the drive.
He has delivered amazing stuff that we already take for granted.
It was so successful, we take it for granted.
The border is one thing, right?
It is actually that the streaming of people that we could just see on the nightly news where they were just coming in, mostly military age, young man, that has stopped, right?
So it could be done pretty much overnight.
There's also the new taxation benefits.
There are no tax on tips or social security or overtime.
Amazing.
And all these things we already got, and we forget how hard it was just to get this.
So my personal view is it is easier to get Trump to see sense and post correct on his screw-ups than to go, you know, Tabula Raza and just try to find a brand new party with a brand new figurehead.
And by jove, if it's Elon Musk Burgla, because that guy is a dope.
He's a philandering, pseudo-billionaire.
That's what I think.
And I also think that he has been made the pin-up boy of these companies because he's working autistic enough.
But I think he also holds these companies and the value of whatever he holds, the shares in the companies in trust for a much bigger entity behind him.
Just like Epstein, his billions were held in trust to run this blackmailing operation.
That's what I truly believe.
Yeah.
Bill, tell us what you've thought about since our last conversation that you didn't have a chance to say on that occasion.
Well, I guess it was the...
I wasn't...
Yes.
You know, mine is like constant pain.
It's pain, but Catherine's is more like you would characterize it as pulse energy projectiles hitting you.
Yeah.
Not necessarily causing pain, but discomfort and heat.
Well, pain.
And so if I may explain.
So Bill is mostly tortured through his non-consensual implants.
I'm also going through torture sessions where I'm in bed for two, three days and being violently tortured so that I can't do anything.
But the attacks on me are mostly with directed energy weapons that fire so-called pulsed energy projectiles.
Now, as far as I can make out, as a high-energy physicist, that is classified physics, because these bundles of energy seem to be electromagnetic in nature, but we have witnessed them plunge holes into sheet metal.
I have witnessed them shatter glass next to my face.
So, but also they don't damage the layers that these things pass through on the way in.
So the typical day is I wake up as soon as I go into the bathroom to brush my teeth, a drone above our house shoots the ceiling right above me as I step into the bathroom.
When I go into the office and sit down to work, there are impact sounds all around me, hard knocks that would sometimes go in a square pattern.
So every wall around me would be shot.
And then they start shooting the ceiling and eventually my head.
If you get a shot like that to the head, depending on the energy, you instantly feel a knock on your skull.
You feel disoriented, nauseous.
If the energy is cramped up, they can knock you flat out or kill you on the spot.
So I get gunned like that all day long.
And every shot to the head takes two or three hours to recover from.
That's the reality.
Now, talking about which, we have an announcement to make, which is that I have been especially, but this time we're trying to go together, we've been trying to get through to the director of the Secret Service because he needs to know about these directed energy weapons and about these false energy projectiles.
Now, I drove to Mar-a-Lago trying to hand in information.
I was blocked.
And I always send the letter announcing the trip so that the Secret Service is not taken by surprise.
And I announce it and then I go.
I tried that with Mar-a-Lago.
The FBI tried to kill me on the road, sabotaged our car three times.
When I got there, the Secret Service that had signed for the letter with Secret Service a week earlier claimed that they had never received any of our letters.
Then I tried to drive to DC.
I drove to DC.
I didn't try to drive.
I drove to DC and was in the Secret Service headquarters twice already in the middle of April and the 1st of May, the start of April and the 1st of May.
Both times I was blocked and the director didn't reply to our messages.
But now after the death threat, the Masonic death threat by James Comey, I think something is going to be done against Trump.
And the most likely thing is, you know, a directed energy weapon attack.
It would be so easy.
He would just drop dead and nobody would hear a shot.
There would be no bullet holes.
The Secret Service wouldn't even know where the hell the shot came from.
So that is the most likely thing.
And to forestall those type of attacks and similar ones reliant on classified stealth weapons, the Secret Service needs to use a different approach to protection, which is why both Bill and I would like to tell them an idea how to do this.
And they have to get onto it by yesterday, baby.
So Bill and I are going to go up to the Secret Service headquarters again over the next two to three weeks.
And we have sent Sean Curran a letter, which I can also show how it got diverted by the Postal Service or by UPS.
But the point is that I've published all the letters that I wrote in the past and that we've written out to Sean Curran.
If you, Jim, could bring up the website and Share your screen, maybe.
Alternatively, I've got it here so people can actually click on the PDF and read exactly what we wrote to him repeatedly, begging to be just allowed to hand in a bundle of evidence.
And so far, they have refused.
What is a good sign, though, is the current sabotage of the UPS letter that I sent.
I posted it on Saturday, and I think it arrived this morning, but it was meant to be there on Monday morning.
So, you know, I think I showed you that PNG where you can see it was first a delayed flight, then a mechanical failure, then the claim that there was severe weather or an emergency in DC.
Yes.
Which sound like very flimsy reasons.
I mean, honestly.
Well, we did check the weather up there, and I think they received four tenths of an inch of rain.
Yeah.
Four tenths of an inch.
Well, you know, neither rain nor sweet nor snow shall, you know, slow them on their mission to deliver the mail.
My God.
Especially after you've paid for it for overnight, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The poster race has gone through the roof.
Yeah, yeah.
Unbelievable.
Well, I worry about you guys every time we're not in contact because you are being under constant bombardment.
And this one interview I did, Bill, with Catherine years ago, under sheets and I could hear it.
You could see the impact.
I mean, it was absurd.
It was so obviously.
She wears helmets at night.
Yeah.
One time the impact was loud enough that it woke me up and I sat up.
I mean, I basically have two metal military helmets.
One is an, actually both are German.
One is a Second World War German helmet and the other one is from the 70s and one is slightly bigger.
So I slide them together and I fall asleep every night listening to the impact sounds on Lucy Metal Helmet.
They continue shooting.
It is so insane.
But also people need to realize that if Trump and Pete Hexet, whose job it would be to call the US Air Force and ground the bloody drones on the Baba House, if they don't act, this is a weapons test and weapons training for the goons that will eventually use these weapons on Trump and his children and grandchildren and the other politicians.
On you and Bill.
Yeah.
Those German helmets were the best military helmets ever designed and the U.S. was going to adopt them, but for the symbolic, you know, they said, nah.
Yeah, well, actually, I've got a U.S. a Kevlar helmet, but Kevlar is no good trying to block these, which is another piece of proof that it is some sort of electromagnetic wave, because anything that's metallic.
So Kevlar would be a shock absorption, you know, ideal for shock absorption, but that's not good enough for these.
So it is actually an electromagnetic wave.
Let me switch to foreign policy.
I mean, in the 12-day war, Iran shellacked Israel.
I mean, they put up a pretense.
They pretend they did massive damage, but it was overwhelming.
One hit even took out Mossad ID of headquarters with four to five casualties.
One hit, they hit their command and control.
And they've sought to conceal it, but it was a massive hit.
And in fact, Beebe had to call Trump for a ceasefire because Israel was running out of missile.
50% were already getting through.
Iran actually could take them out.
They've only expanded 5% of their missile supply.
They could hit Israel every day for the next two years, and they've got their best weapons still in reserve.
Bill, how do you see us playing out geopolitically?
What do you take to be the implications here?
I think that whole country, that whole area is a mess.
There's so much hatred that's been there for, you know, it goes back to biblical times.
There's no easy solution to this at all.
I mean, first of all, I oppose any kind of war, period.
It's a slaughter of humans that has no purpose whatsoever.
Because in the end, what do you gain?
Over time, nothing.
It all changes again.
Some other power comes in, you know, just one after the other.
And so I just don't see war as anything that's meaningful for any country to do.
Again, unless you're pursuing a depopulation agenda, I have a series of limited wars, but they're just going to keep them up and take out as many as they can with each and eventually work their way down to, well, ideally, 500 million, which just sounds absurd, given over 8 billion in the world today.
Absurd.
Yeah.
Any rate, I just don't see, I don't see a solution to that.
And I don't think Trump's going to get that.
But, you know, the Abraham Accords might be the way to do it.
I don't know.
Well, China's standing up for Iran.
They've sold Iran 40 of their top-line fighters, which created a sensation at a Southeast Asia air show.
I mean, they're fantastic jets.
And they're giving him the anti-aircraft, anti-missile batteries that I thought Putin had given the S-400, but he never did.
So I've been very troubled about Putin being lackadaisical about Iran.
I mean, I thought he would be the strong right arm.
It's turning out to be China.
China.
How do you assess that, Bill?
Well, I think Putin is pretty much tied up in Ukraine.
He can't afford to give away too much.
He's got to keep it to defend his own country across the whole country now.
The way the Ukrainians are attacking, he's got to be able to defend basically anything anywhere in the Russian country.
So he can't afford to give it away.
So that's where the Chinese are coming, my view, anyway.
That's why the Chinese are coming in because they could fill that gap, but the Russians are in no position to do that right now.
Ideally, going Forward.
Because another thing is, there are so many other wars happening here.
There are trade wars, there are currency wars in the making.
There's so much potential for devastating warfare and for lots of deaths to result from them.
I think Trump's strength is really that he is driving towards trade.
These are trade agreements.
So when all these countries start trading with each other, there's less and less of an incentive to take out your own marketplace.
And I think that's really the best thing.
What I liked about Trump's approach to Iran was twofold.
Number one, for absolutely years and years, the excuse was always, well, Iran is building a nuclear program, and that's going to be the reason why we have to have a war and wipe them off the surface of the map.
It was the weapons of mass destruction all over again.
Now, with this one incursion into Iranian airspace and a couple of big bombs dropped, that whole discussion is now mute.
I saw that they were trying to revive it by saying, oh, but Iran could have taken it to this side just before.
Yes.
Well, that's always the case.
But with the same reasoning, you could target any country.
So he basically put an end to this one reason that was the number one reason to keep messing with Iran.
Now, the America, the Iranian friends I have, they were exuberant over the fact that now there's a real chance to get the country out of this medieval bullshit and back to the sort of Western-oriented society that respected women that it once was.
So there's a real chance.
And what it comes down to is, is humanity going to clean up all the deep state operations around the world in the United States, in Iran, in Russia, in China?
Because I'm telling you guys, by the laws of system physics, it's all the same network.
Organized crime and these deep state operations do not have antitrust regulations.
So by definition, you always end up with a monopoly.
And I think there's evidence for that.
They use the same symbols, the same MO.
You know, they really try, the globalists try to shift their weight from China to the West to Russia, depending on what benefits them.
But it's all one network.
So every country around the world starts moving in on this organized crime, the deep state can be drained very quickly, especially using modern technology.
Yes, fascinating.
You know, I was in Iran in 2014.
They had an international conference.
They brought intellectuals from around the world.
It was wonderful.
I got a very unfavorable impression of Iran.
All those I met, I didn't see signs of suppression of women, such as you're suggesting, Catherine, although I know it's a widely held view.
You, I take it.
The fact that they have to run around with the chado outside, right?
And that they get flogged to death for what is alleged adultery.
We have footage from, you know, malls in Iran, and the women look just as sophisticated and dressed like they would in Paris, honestly.
They are.
They absolutely are.
So my friends say that when you are visiting back home, when you go to Tehran, in the street, everybody's wearing the medieval black garb.
And my friend, who grew up in Germany, she was surprised because she went in as a normal German girl.
And then when these women arrived at home, they would throw off the black garb and they were dressed in cocktail dresses.
She said she was suddenly in Beverly Hills at the cocktail party and was hopelessly underdressed.
Yes, absolutely.
But that's because it's a very old culture that was very refined and civilized and intellectual.
And then by artificial means like MI6 and CIA, they got all this bullshit top down put on them to asset strip the country essentially.
That needs to be gotten rid of.
And the Iranian people have to regain their right to self-determination.
Of course, Bill, the American people are told about the Iranians taking the American embassy in 79.
They're not told about the CI coup in 53 that overthrow Mohammed because he was nationalizing oil industry and the British and American multinationals didn't like it.
They were cutting into their profits.
So permanent execution, but the American people have no idea that we struck first.
They think the Iranians say, you know, Americans are great Satan and all that because they don't like our freedom or some happy horseshit like W is suggesting regarding 9-11.
What's your take on the situation in Iran?
Well, I think the U.S. government and foreign policy after World War II of the U.S. has been too focused on control of foreign governments.
I mean, most of it is our business.
If we could build good relationships around the world with countries as long as we don't try to change their governments and let the people in the country determine what their government's going to be.
That's what it should be.
We don't have any business there.
I mean, it's not our job to tell them how to live.
Yep, yep, yep.
Do you have any idea what Bibi wants from Trump?
You know, I think Trump is very much Bibi's poppet.
Catherine, you don't think so, right?
You think Trump's a little more independent.
Tell me.
I think so.
I think so.
And also when you listen to some of Trump's more sarcastic remarks, I think he's very much in tune about people trying to manipulate him.
You know, I really think so.
I'm hoping Trump is at its best when he's listening to his own intuition and he is his own man.
Trump is at his worst when he's in a field he knows nothing about, like science, and he relies on his advisors who have bullshit degrees from shitty universities or are social scientists like lawyers.
Then they stargate AI, anything to do with technology or even the science, his executive order about the gold standard of science was actually an Intel agent's miming of a letter I'd written to Sean Perrin months ago where I talked about the gold standard of science, but the gold standard of science is two independent analyses Of the same very high intellectual standard.
When you read the executive order, Trump basically defines the basic bottom ass of science as the gold standard.
No, it's like if you fall below it, you are an effing moron.
It's the basic standard of science.
And we now have an executive order outlining the basic standard of science.
Come on.
Where did that come from?
That's not from Trump.
It's from somebody who's literally an Intel agent who read what I was drafting for Sean Curran, thought it sounded clever and put it in.
So I'm not making it up.
We have other examples of our words being quoted and media anchors changing certain things based on that.
But bear in mind, it's not their background or credentials, it's their politics.
It's whether they have a political agenda.
You know, it's fascinating that AI, it's making such a difference.
We got this GTP chat.
I got a friend who's had wonderful conversation with chat.
She tells me they're more intelligent than she is with her friends.
And we got this Groke who's actually putting out a lot of truth.
In fact, the hit at the A project to produce Groke has just resigned because it was telling too much truth.
It was talking about Israel's real role in the world and control of the American government and all kinds of stuff that it was shocking to hear because it was true, but we never get it from our own media or sources.
Bill, I think there's enormous potential, but it's going to go back to the GIGO principle because if they, you know, mess with the algorithms, if they start censoring, this was a groke that was uncensored.
It was fascinating.
Fascinating.
Let it keep going.
Your thoughts?
Well, I was always cautious about models.
You know, whenever you put a model in there to assess something, it has bases in it.
It's got logic in it that tells it what to do.
I tend not to use the term artificial intelligence because there's nothing artificial.
It's the capture of human thought in code and executing electronically.
So it's not artificial.
It comes from somebody's mind.
Here's what you do to see this.
You do this.
You see this, do that.
See this, do that.
If this looks like that, do this, you know, or something like that.
There's rules and logic in there that governs how and what the computer does.
What's having these inanimate machines before tasks that in the past required human minds?
Your thoughts, Catherine?
Well, I think there's an entire layer.
So all this AI stuff can be useful, cute stuff like collating information, but that is not what these people need 500 billion for, which is sending 10 CIAs.
And this is why we also need to get through to Trump, because I think he's hopelessly unaware, as is his secret service director, that a lot of people already carry these non-consensual covert implants and can be neurologically or physically hijacked.
Now, for that, you do need AI.
If your goal is to turn every human being into a super soldier and can be remote controlled, then you need that level of AI.
And the military and the military industrial context will be using most of that stargate AI.
I don't think people are aware.
It's not about making cute kitten videos where it looks like a kitten is riding a polar bear.
You know, it is really the military application will come first.
And that one will be terrifying.
It will be so overpowering.
I'm not sure if this shit goes live, if we even have a chance, you and Bill and me, to ever get through.
I'm not even sure Trump has a chance to stop it by then.
Yeah.
The computer brain interface is a two-way street.
It's not just the computer telling, you telling the computer what to do.
That also can come back from the computer to your brain.
And let's remember that Elon Musk has a company, Leuralink, that does just that.
Is that not creepy?
Isn't it creepy that every single one of his companies is an agenda point, like electric cars or rockets, which is NASA, or brain-computer interfaces, which is DARPA?
Yes.
Well, I suspect you're right about Musk, that he's a dirty bird.
Oh, I'm sure he is.
That's what I'm sure about.
I just found him engaging with the Dodge and all the cots.
And even if they were obvious, they hadn't been done.
So he was exposing trillions in government ways, none of which was in the big, beautiful bill.
None of it.
So I'm sure about that, because there's always the glitzy stuff, and billionaires like Trump always gravitate to the glitzy solution.
But there's always a non-sexy, much more resilient solution.
And there was already a solution that was doing what Doge did just much better.
And that was Catherine Auspositz's fully public accounting at the federal, state, and local level, where everybody, everybody, 320 million Americans could watch their local, state, and federal governments spend money live so that they had time to react.
So you couldn't even buy a pencil without it even showing up.
And as soon as she brought that online, well, she was destroyed by the government and they tried to kill her, like they tried to kill Bill.
Erson, you didn't have Pulsaf, you wanted to audit the government.
So auditing the government is a key thing to the deep state.
That's how you can lost the deep state.
But her system would have come online and be permanent and be reliant on the American people monitoring, being able to monitor it all the time.
It's a better solution than the one sale point of Doge.
What a great idea.
Yeah, it has to come back.
I really want Cassie and Austin Sitz to show the government how to put it back.
Well, it's wonderful having these conversations.
And I want to wish you a safe trip.
You know, you get together with the Secret Service because they need to know about a new level of technological threat that they're not prepared to deal with because they don't even know it exists.
And the SBI will never tell them.
That's the one thing.
The FBI will never, or the Lockheed Martin or the U.S. Air Force will never, ever tell them the truth.
Because that's a secret weapon they want to deploy at their own convenience.
And potentially against Trump and his protectives to make it look like he just had a heart attack.
Exactly.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
Any final thoughts for today, Bill?
Well, I mean, just that if we can't get through, I don't know how we're going to do it except we're going to have to go totally public.
That's the only way to do it.
Everybody needs it public.
That might be the way to go.
If there's anything I can do to facilitate, Catherine, your final thoughts?
I would love.
I mean, I have no problem doing it fully public, but I want Sean Curran to have a head start.
And I also want actually P-Texas and Cash Patel, if they want to do a job, they need a couple of months' head start on the general public to protect people, actually.
So I really, if he could take us DF seriously at last, I'm bringing Bill this time.
I'm not a threat.
By the way, do I look like Antifa?
Because this is what I was wearing when I was standing in the, you know, in the foyer.
Tell me.
All right.
I wanted to say to them, why am I being like, you know, held back?
I had to fill out the mental health form again for the third time.
They have all my details.
You know, if they tell me I look like Antifa, I will call you and say, Bill, I'm coming home late because I'm going shopping.
Clearly.
But the point is, if they took us seriously, there's so much and we're just trying to give them information for free.
What's such a problem?
They know everything there is to know about both of you already long since.
It's just they want to create a barrier between you and the parties you need to reach.
And I just wish you well.
Your current equivalents of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden and speaking out truths that the government doesn't want the world to know.
I wish you well in your venture, good health and safety, and look forward to our next conversation.
Thank you both for joining me today.
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