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May 2, 2024 - Jim Fetzer
01:07:31
Dr. Tom Cowan with Vaccine Choice Canada Podcast, April 29 2024
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You can say what your evidence, you know, what has moved you in your life and the feelings and your experiences and what you, how you see the world.
And that's great.
I mean, we all do that.
And we should do that.
But you don't lock everybody down and you don't like harass them if they don't believe the same thing you do.
I mean, that's tyranny.
And you don't call it science.
You don't.
Vaccine Choice Canada was established in 1982 and is Canada's oldest and most trusted authority in assisting individuals to make an informed decision with regards to vaccination.
This information is not intended as legal, health or nutritional advice.
It is provided for information purposes only.
Vaccine Choice Canada does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements, views and opinions presented by its guests.
Let's get started.
I want to take advantage of every minute that we have with Dr. Cowan this evening.
So first of all, welcome.
Thanks for joining us this evening.
A special welcome to those joining us for the first time.
And a welcome to the members from Canada Health Alliance with whom we collaborate on these meetings.
For those that I haven't met yet, my name is Ted Kuntz, and I'm the President of Vaccine Choice Canada.
So I'm delighted to have our guest this evening.
I suspect for those that are here, Dr. Thomas Cowan needs no introduction.
He's a renowned physician, a retired prolific author, and some of his books that I've got on my bookshelf include The Fourfold Path to Healing, Vaccines, Autoimmunity, and The Changing Nature of Childhood Illness.
Human heart, cosmic heart, and the contagion myth.
The last time we had Dr. Cowan as a guest was in October of 2021, and a lot has changed since then.
Dr. Cowan has been one of the more outspoken critics of the COVID narrative.
More than that, he's challenging all of us to reconsider what we think we know about health and illness.
In his book, The Contagion Myth, Dr. Cowan writes, the entire world of medicine, virology, and immunology is mistaken in believing that many of our common diseases are viral in origin.
And in his book, Vaccines, Autoimmunity, and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness, Cowan writes, I have already come to the conclusion that vaccination and mistreatment of acute illnesses were the primary causes of chronic disease.
These are pretty strong statements and statements that often get people reactive.
But I think that this is exactly the kind of conversations that we need to have.
And what I can see is that more and more people are beginning to ask the same kinds of questions.
So welcome, Dr. Cowan.
Thanks for joining us this evening.
It's okay.
Thanks for having me.
Well, we can wade into a whole bunch of different directions, but I wanted to start with, you came to a different understanding about health and disease early in your career.
And I'm wondering, how did you come to question the old paradigm of health and disease?
I just kept looking at it and it didn't make any sense.
And at some point along the way, I decided, unlike the culture that I live in, and particularly the medical doctors and the scientists, to attempt to not be scientifically illiterate.
And here's an example of that.
The process of science, and also logic and reason, is to Find the claim, in other words, the statement that is claimed to be so, and investigate whether there's evidence to demonstrate that or not.
And here's the important thing, and if there's anything anybody listening to me should remember, you do not have to know what is true to know what isn't true.
And let me give you an example so everybody really gets this into your minds.
Imagine somebody's 18 who looks a little Asian and his parents are Caucasian and he rummages through his parents' closet and he finds adoption papers.
And he never heard that he was adopted.
He goes to his parents and says, look, I found these adoption papers and I always wondered why I didn't look like you.
And yeah, well, we didn't want to tell you, you know, you'd get upset and all that, but you were adopted.
We got you from China and you know, all that.
And it's true.
So then you go to your friend and you say, man, I just found out I was adopted.
And he says, so who are your real parents?
You say, I don't know.
You know, I just found out this just today.
And he says, I don't believe you that you were adopted until you tell me who your real parents are.
That's ridiculous.
Everybody can see that.
That's illogical, anti-scientific.
So if we have this conversation and I say, there is no evidence that any so-called viral disease exists, people get sick, but there are no specific diseases, and there's no evidence of a virus, That there's no evidence that a virus even exists?
If you respond to that by saying, so what causes people to get the flu?
You're asking me, who are your real parents?
And I can tell you right now, and I'm not pulling any punches, what you're really saying is that you're scientifically illiterate.
And 95% of the doctors I talk to, I say there's no evidence that measles is actually a specific disease.
There's certainly no evidence that there's a measles virus or any other virus.
And they say they don't investigate that claim as they should, right?
What is the evidence that it's a specific disease?
What are the symptoms that make it unique?
What is a lab test that you could reliably verify this is a specific phenomena?
What is the evidence that there's a so-called particle that we identify as a virus in the fluids of somebody who's got measles?
They don't ask that question, right?
That would be the scientifically literate approach to investigating that claim.
Instead, they say, so what caused my child to get sick at a party?
I mean, that's ridiculous.
Tell me who your real parents are or I don't believe you're adopted.
So we've bought into this virus paradigm for, when did this start?
I don't even know when it started.
It started in the late 1800s when they were, they had, you know, basically everything changed around 1850 when they decided there were cells of which, by the way, there's very little evidence that that's true in, in, you know, in people or any other mammal.
And they decided that the only thing that existed was material substance.
And they decided that the way to investigate what was true was to dissect it into smaller and smaller pieces.
And somehow that will tell you what something is made of.
And they also then decided that the reason people got sick were these invisible particles that were originally said to be bacteria, which they then could find.
And then they said, well, we have some illnesses like polio, which they said had specific symptoms, which it doesn't.
And they said, we can't find a bacteria, so there must be something smaller than a bacteria that we can't see, because we don't have the tools to see it.
And that's called a virus, and that must be making them sick.
I want to say, too, it's around that time that a fellow named Einstein and a bunch of other physicists came along.
And they changed scientific thinking forever, which is a really important part here.
And I don't have the quote in front of me, but Einstein allegedly said, he's supposedly the smartest guy who ever lived.
He said, and this is like 1905, science is no longer based on experimentation and observation.
It's based on true science is based on the free inventions of the mind.
In other words, making shit up.
So, so he and what happens when you make shit up?
Is that it's always wrong, right?
Because we're all limited beings and and so they say things like if you contact a virus or a person who has a virus like chickenpox, you will get sick.
And then they started to do observations and they said, well, not everybody who gets sick who is around somebody with so-called chickenpox gets sick, right?
So they falsified the claim.
Which means the claim is done.
But at that point, then, you have a choice.
You can go back and say, no, we falsified the claim.
That's not how it works, right?
Or you can make up a next principle to keep the story going.
And that's what they did.
So first, if you contact somebody with the flu, you get sick because you get the virus.
Not everybody gets sick, so they falsified the claim.
So then they say, well, that's because you have a good immune system.
Right?
So they make up a new story.
There is no such thing as an immune system.
They made that up to explain the fact that they just disproved that if you get around somebody with a quote viral infection, you will get sick because you don't.
So there's got to be an immune system.
And so then they say, well, the immune system is based on antibodies, right?
That's we've heard.
And if you get antibodies, then you're immune to the virus.
So you get measles, you get antibodies, you're immune to the virus.
You get flu, you get antibodies, well then you're not, you get it the next year, so the antibodies wore off, right?
So that's the next level.
And then if you get, if you have AIDS and you get HIV, then the antibodies mean the virus is going to kill you.
You say, wait a minute, you just told me that if I get antibodies, I'm protected.
Well, yeah, but this is a different virus, right?
So you got to make up a new story.
And so this story is, if you get antibodies, you're good.
And basically, they're just making up stories.
There's no, and then as soon as it gets disproven, they make up a new story to keep the whole thing going.
And that's how we got to where we are now.
So I wonder about these people that are virologists who spend their whole career supposedly dealing with viruses.
What do they spend their day doing then?
So it goes like this.
They take mucus or some fluid from somebody who's sick.
So here's how they quote, you have to isolate something in order to study it, right?
If I said, what is a hammer made of?
You don't just take a toolbox and grind it up and see what's in there, right?
You take the hammer out of the toolbox, isolate the hammer, and then you can see what it's made of and what it does, right?
So, here's how they isolate the virus.
They take snot from somebody who's alleged to be sick with a viral infection.
They don't look for a virus in it.
They inoculate that on monkey kidney cells or some other cell line.
They put kidney poisons in.
They take away the nutrients.
They add some other chemicals.
And they see whether the kidney cells die.
If they do, they claim that means there was a virus.
And that's called the isolation of the virus.
That is pure, unadulterated nonsense.
And so that's the first thing.
The next thing is they look for genetic sequences in the broken down kidney cells.
And they claim that if they found ones they haven't seen before, that that means there's a new virus.
And so then they start looking at the genetic sequences, and this one's different, and so it's not the same as the old virus, and it mutated, and it's a variant, or it's a part of the chickenpox family, or whatever.
And so they spend the rest of their time looking at sequences, Never knowing once, because they never purified anything, they never knew the origin of that sequence, not even once, not even one paper, not ever.
It's completely smoke and mirrors.
Wow.
And when you have these conversations with your colleagues who are still believing the narrative, how does that go?
They say, what causes chickenpox?
Because they're scientifically illiterate.
And there's nothing you can say to move them off that position.
Because any general colleague that I have, if you ask them, and I would encourage everybody listening, go to your doctor tomorrow and say, Doc, tell me how a virologist proves that there's a virus and shows that it caused disease.
Some of them have been doctors 40 years, 30 years, 20 years, alternative doctors, natural doctors, internal medicine, pediatricians.
They tell people 20 times a day you have a virus.
They cannot tell you how you know there's a virus or not.
I guarantee that.
In which case, they're not part of the conversation.
They don't know what I just said.
I never learned that in medical school.
I didn't learn that at all until the last five years.
So, for most of your career, you were of the understanding there were viruses.
Yeah, because I was delusional and didn't look into it.
Well, you said before we got started here, what did you say?
Going to medical school is a thought disorder.
You acquire a thought disorder to the point where even the ability to ask simple questions.
So let me give you another example.
Here's the problem that I have.
Unlike some people, I leave a paper trail.
So people can check that I was pretty much of an idiot six years ago.
So let's talk about autoimmune disease.
The theory of autoimmune disease is that there's an antibody that you make, we don't know why, and the antibody attacks your own tissue.
So, you've got rheumatoid arthritis, your joints hurt, they're swollen, bilateral, etc.
And then you make this antibody rheumatoid factor and that destroys your joints.
Right?
That's the basic theory.
So, first question.
What percentage of people who are told they have rheumatoid arthritis actually have rheumatoid factor?
Right?
That's the defining characteristic of the disease.
Turns out it's 40% don't have rheumatoid factor.
So how the hell do you know they have rheumatoid arthritis if that's the definition of a disease?
Because you could have a whole lot of other things that cause joint pains and whatever.
Well...
Never mind.
All right.
I looked for almost a week.
Find one study that takes an isolated antibody, like rheumatoid factor, and show that you inject it or expose an animal to it or a person and it causes a disease.
Right?
That's how you would do it.
If you're telling me that a bacteria causes disease, you better have a study that takes only a bacteria, expose it to a person in a normal way, and show that it makes them sick.
Otherwise, I ain't buying it.
You know how many studies there are that show isolated bacteria causes disease and expose to a healthy person in a normal way?
Zero.
You know how many that show that rheumatoid factor, Epstein-Barr antibody, you know, like ANA, lupus antibody or any antibody causes disease in one person?
There is not one study.
Zero.
And that's why the CDC will say, or the rheumatoid, well, we don't really know that it's the antibodies that are the causative agent.
I mean, yeah, that's right.
Because you don't have a single evidence that actually demonstrates that.
And that's what I mean.
I wrote a book on autoimmune disease.
It's total nonsense.
And I didn't see it.
So how did you shift?
How did you lose that narrative?
I looked into it.
And I had some friends, and I read Harold Hillman, and he said, you better look into this, because I don't think you got this right.
And by that time, I had figured out how to think about this.
If you want to tell me that something causes something else, You better have that thing and then do a control so everything else is the same but that thing and show that it causes that effect.
If you want to say a hammer knocks in a nail, you better take only a hammer and show that it knocks in the nail and you better go like this with just your hand to tell me that it's not just your hand moving or think Nail go in, because who knows, might be your mind.
And if you do that, because your first rule as a scientist is to try to prove yourself wrong.
You've got to think of any possible way that this independent variable, this hammer, is not really the thing that makes the nail go into the wall.
And if you can falsify it, it's done.
And if you can't falsify it, it sticks.
So I started doing that.
Okay, you think bacteria cause strep throat?
Isolate a strep, spray it on a healthy person, show me it gets sick.
There's not one study that does that.
If anybody wants to prove me wrong, I'd be happy to see it, because I've looked and I have 20 friends who've looked and they can't find it.
So we've got an entire medical paradigm that's built upon a lie?
A lie.
It's a hoax.
Florence Nightingale said, there's no such thing as specific diseases.
All symptoms are your body's attempt to heal.
That, by the way, is the biggest psyop of all in medicine.
If you have symptoms, either it's a sore throat, or mucus, or a cough, or swollen joints, or you're demented, that's your body attempting to heal.
And the cause is a previous deficiency or poisoning.
Period.
That's all there is to it.
And the medicine is all about stopping the healing.
You put debris in your lungs, you cough it up with mucus.
The medicine stops you from coughing it up, keep it in your lungs, and then you get lung cancer.
And by the way, cancer is not metastasizing cells, growing cells growing too much.
That's pure fiction.
So how would you practice medicine now compared to six years ago or seven years ago?
Well, I was already practicing in a reasonable way, which is, okay, you forget there's no such thing as diseases, right?
What there are, are people's stories.
I woke up every day for a month and my wife hit me with a hammer on my foot.
So what do you feel now?
I have a pain in my foot.
What do you think happened?
Well, I think it's because your wife hit you with the hammer.
I got an idea.
Tell your wife to stop hitting you with the hammer and see if it goes away.
Call me in two weeks.
She does, it goes away.
Doctors would say, oh, you have unilateral swelling in your foot.
You must have sublunar tendinitis of the microbial process in the hallux vulgus thingy.
And that's probably because of a viral infection that we can't see.
So here, take steroids.
And they don't even ask what happened.
So I get into the story.
What happened to you?
How were you poisoned?
How do you think about life?
What's happening?
How do you feel about life?
What are you eating?
What are you sucking on a cell phone all day long?
Have you ever been out in the sunshine?
Do you ever move your body?
And then when I find the problem, We try to remediate it.
There's no diagnosis, no lab tests, no x-rays, no suppressive medicine.
It's actually based in reality.
What you get today is theories.
You get mucus, it's caused by the viral theory.
You have a joints hurt autoimmune theory.
You have cancer, you have growing cell theory because you have a mutation in your DNA.
Which, by the way, has nothing to do with coding for proteins.
It has nothing to do with heredity.
That's a story, too.
Easily disproven.
Boy, you wreck a lot of stories, Tony.
I know.
It's all about the story.
And this is from Einstein.
These are free inventions of the mind.
Let me show of hands, what's the shape of DNA?
Is it a double helix?
Yes or no?
Raise your hand if you think yes.
Well, that's what I've been told.
I don't know what it is.
Who came up with the idea that DNA is a double helix?
Anybody know?
Watson and Crick, you've heard that.
Yes.
Raise your hand if you read Watson and Crick's paper in Nature that got them a Nobel Prize 1953.
Any hands up?
Nobody, nobody read it.
Ask your doc, did you read the paper?
I read the paper.
There's not a measurement in the whole paper.
Watson and Crick say, we assumed a rotational angle of seven angstroms, which is the definition of a double helix.
And therefore, it's a double helix.
That's like saying, we assumed we had a shape that had four 90 degree angles.
Oh my God, we found it's a square.
Like, that's ridiculous.
There's not a measurement or an experiment.
This was a free invention of their mind.
Had nothing to do with reality.
And we all believe it.
Wow.
So we have an entire medical system based upon a series of stories that are not true.
We have a whole scientific establishment.
We also have, by the way, an economic and political and a whole lot of other things that are based on stories, which are not true.
Well, what's the native saying?
He who tells the stories rules the world or something?
Yeah, right.
The victors tell the story.
You can get into a lot of people who've said that, you know, Tolstoy and Karl Marx.
He was a great storyteller.
Yeah, anyways.
So, Tom, what should we know about being healthy?
Well, number one, don't go to a doctor because they also hex you.
They tell you how long you're going to live.
And actually, they found that the number one thing that determines whether someone will have symptoms of a cold is whether they believe it or not.
And by the way, the people who run this world, they know this really well.
They know that if they tell enough people enough times that there's this horrible thing out there, that people will start getting sick.
They've even shown that when they find a drug that has certain side effects, it'll have like 10 side effects, and they'll pick out three, like bad breath and your foot hurts, and they'll talk about them on the television all the time, and the incidents of people coming to the doctor with their toe hurting and bad breath skyrockets.
And the other so-called side effects don't increase.
So the rulers of the world, they know this gig really well.
So that's the first thing.
Unless you've got a knife in you bleeding to death, stay away.
Second?
You mentioned poison a few minutes ago.
My senses were being poisoned in a hundred different ways.
Yes, so you've got to know how you're living and compare it to some sense of how an actual healthy living human being would live.
Like walking on the earth in bare feet, Connect in being out in the sun and doing regular movement and being part of a family in a community and having good relations and eating food from your environment and knowing where the food comes from.
And if it's got ingredients in it, don't eat it and I could go on and on and on.
But the thinking process is You know, we were talking before, it's like my cats, you know, they live as far as they can a natural life and they don't get sick.
And most people, even today, as poisoned as it is, if you really make a real serious and honest attempt to live like a actual normal person would live, you'll probably do fine.
That's my second suggestion.
When did you come to the understanding that vaccines are a significant cause of chronic disease?
If you find value in the kind of conversations we have here at Vaccine Choice Canada, I invite you to support our work by becoming a member of Vaccine Choice Canada.
When did you come to the understanding that vaccines are a significant cause of chronic disease?
Well, my oldest child is 41 and she didn't get any vaccines, so this was at least 42 years ago.
Even back then, I had some sense of literacy in trying to actually understand the root of how they came to this.
And so all I had to see was a graph of the death rate from measles showing that the introduction of the vaccine had nothing to do with it.
Nothing.
There's no possible way that injecting somebody with a broken down cell culture, that you can't ever find a virus in there because it doesn't exist, could possibly prevent somebody from getting a sickness.
There's no possible way.
And you can go through all of them, tetanus, whooping cough, you know, they're not contagious.
The whole contagion thing is basically disproven for over a hundred years.
And so I was willing to, you know, look and it was not as easy as it is now, you know, that I didn't have a computer and there's, you know, so it's information was harder to come by.
But You know, I was a natural skeptic.
I credit my father with that because he was such a buffoon that he taught me don't trust authority figures.
Because he was, you know, a young boy's authority figure.
And I could see that he was, you know, full of it, basically.
And so that was a gift because I realized that he and his friends who were all these famous doctors and all this, they were full of it.
So I credit that for my interest in not believing that stuff.
That was the gift from your father, is to become skeptical of many things.
I mean, if he was a good, honest, I mean, he's honest, but accurate sort of guy, I probably would have thought, you know, well, probably what I'm learning is right.
But I never thought that.
Well, I think that's one of the things we've learned over the last four years is that we have to be a whole lot more skeptical about what our government tells us, our public health, our media, our pharmacies.
I would say if you haven't learned that, then you're not paying attention.
Like big time.
How has your perspective shifted over the last four years?
Well, like I said, I was, it's an interesting word, schooled by living colleagues that we have to figure out how to think.
And some were better at it than I, and so we sort of formed a group to try to figure this out, with history, with everything.
You know, how does it work?
I mean, there's a, in our group, there's a guy who's a, he has a PhD in theoretical and nuclear physics.
Now, this is way off the subject, but I can tell everybody there that there is no evidence that a particle called an atom actually exists.
The idea that there's a neutron and a proton in a nucleus and an electron orbiting around is pure make-believe.
And interestingly, you can go to a guy like Erwin Schrödinger, who's one of the fathers of nuclear physics, right?
One of the most legendary theoretical physicists of the 20th century, and he will tell you flat out, yeah, if you looked at an atom, you'd never see an electron.
And that means that they have never split a nucleus or split an atom.
That means that there's no such thing as an atomic bomb.
Now think about that.
There's no such thing as fission-based nuclear power.
There are nuclear power plants and they make power, but it's not because they're splitting an atom.
And so we go through all that, and we do it the same way.
Not, you know, what is the evidence for this?
Like, raise your hand if you know the evidence that atoms exist and there's a nucleus in an atom.
There's a very specific experiment that actually is credited with demonstrating that.
How many people know what that experiment is?
I don't see any.
Nobody.
So, that goes to show that you have this, you've been carrying this belief.
Ted, you look like you're 70 or so.
I don't know, 60 or something.
69.
You've been carrying this around for 50 years, 60 years.
There must be an atom.
Somebody must have proved it.
They can split the atom and blow up Hiroshima, right?
You've been walking around with that and you don't even know how the experiment that actually showed whether an atom exists or not.
Which means you're not part of the... I'm not picking on you specifically.
Because I was like that too.
I didn't know.
That's what I mean.
Scientifically illiterate.
So, in this group, we say, okay, we're going to read the paper, read the experiment.
It's called Rutherford's Experiment.
I can describe it, but it takes a while.
And there is more than one conclusion you can draw from that experiment.
And then you go further into it, and you realize it's not true.
And then you go investigating, you know, Hiroshima and nuclear explosions and weapons.
It's not true.
It's not.
Now, I know that's way afield from what we're supposed to talk about, but here's the thing that I think if the powers that be are always claiming like abilities and skills That are extraordinary, right?
And incomprehensible.
Blow up the world, or we can genetically create, GMO, change the organism, because the DNA is the central code for life.
Mind you, DNA is supposed to code for proteins, right?
The genes code for proteins.
Then they go and find there's 200,000 proteins and 10,000 genes, which means geneticists apparently don't know arithmetic.
Because there's 190,000 proteins that have no code.
So how does that work?
Well, they don't know.
Then they make up a story.
Well, the genes flip around and then you got enzymes, which they can't find, that cut and splice the gene.
I mean, who's doing the splicing?
And then they take a worm, and they cut off the head of the worm, and they expose it to an electromagnetic field, and the worm grows no heads.
And a different field, and the worm grows one head.
And a different field, and the worm grows two heads.
I can show you the experiment.
And then the progeny of that worm have zero, one, or two heads.
Which means the hereditary substance or hereditary influence is not even in the worm.
It's not just not in the DNA, which can't possibly be hereditary substance because it changes all the time.
That's been proven.
It's different in every cell, unlike what we're told.
The whole thing is just a made-believe story.
It's like you get this pile of bricks and screws and nails and two-by-fours, and so what science is today, they want to look in the bricks to see how to make the house.
Where's the blueprint for the house?
It's got to be in the bricks.
So they dissect the bricks down to the dust.
And what do they find?
Nothing.
There's no blueprint in the bricks.
It's in the mind of the architect.
And that's where we're at now.
There's no genetic diseases.
There's no genetic diseases.
It's all nonsense.
So just, but just to summarize this process that you went through.
So you and a group of colleagues just began to ask questions and look for the evidence.
And as you did that, you started to come to the realization much of what you had been told as being true is a false narrative.
It's a story.
It's a free invention of somebody's mind, often for nefarious purposes, but not always.
And so we didn't have, and I don't have any ax to grind.
If DNA is a double helix and it's the code for protein, so be it.
But I can tell you, you better prove that to me.
And now I know how to prove things.
And I didn't before.
That's the difference.
And if I get stuck, I have nuclear physicists and other people I can say, did they prove this?
And they can help me out.
And I didn't have that before.
And is there a story now that you've come to know is true?
Yeah, but that's a... I'll let you guys figure that out for yourself.
Because you don't have to know what is true to know.
That's the Wizard of Oz.
You debunk the whole thing.
That's also Sherlock Holmes.
He said, you go and look at the evidence, you discard all that's not true.
At the end of the day, what's true is standing before you.
It's the statue of David.
You get this marble brick, you cut away everything that's not part of it, and there's David standing in the marble.
I like that answer.
Steven, you had a question about five childhood illnesses that you wanted to ask Tom about.
Yeah, I guess what I see as a doctor in practice is that there are stories of contagion and stories of non-contagion.
That means sometimes you'll find people all in one family get colds, but they're all of different variations.
It's some kind of a sickness.
I'm not saying necessarily caused by a virus, but you do seem to see things.
No, it's not caused by a virus.
There's no evidence.
I didn't say that, Tom.
No, I just want to say whether it's caused by a virus or not, that wasn't the issue.
It's more to do with the fact that it seemed to be clumping of cases.
And you remember the story of chicken pox parties, that sort of thing, where parents would take their kids off to that because they would then get Chickenpox-like illness.
And now, the cause for that seems to be unclear.
So, my question about the five childhood illnesses, which I could only remember some of these.
I think some of them maybe we don't get anymore, but there's measles.
So, let me stop you for a minute.
So, Stephen, are you saying that if more than one person or animal gets sick in the same time, with the same symptoms, in the same place, that means there was a contagious event?
No, I'm not saying that.
So how do you know whether a event where more than one person gets sick with the same symptoms in the same time in the same place is a contagious event or not?
Since you can't tell, right?
No, you can't.
They could be both poisoned from the same well.
It's possible.
So how are you going to tell which is which?
Well, that's my question for you, Tom.
It's simple.
You do a scientific experiment.
You put 10 people with chickenpox in a room with controls with 10 people who are not sick and you see what happens.
And a guy named Daniel Reuters just wrote a book called Can You Catch a Cold?
Looked at over 500 studies.
There are almost none and no controlled study that shows that any sick person made any well person sick.
And if you disagree with that, it's up to you to send me the study that proves it.
I just see that in that though, you have any sick person making a healthy person sick.
Now, what about a sick person making a partially sick person sick?
Now, there's the person that's predisposed if they're in a weakened condition.
Predisposed is a, that's already a sort of a reification fallacy.
What do you mean by predisposed?
I would say someone who has a tendency to the similar type of weaknesses.
What does that mean?
That means that people are similar in some way.
So they both have heads.
No, no, no, no.
No, I don't think it's like that.
I think it's that people may have, let's see, a predisposition.
Let me see if we can find an example.
Some people have maybe a predisposition to getting, they get a haircut, they go out in the cold wind and they get a headache from it.
Now, there may be two people in the same family Who seem to have that tendency.
And so I would say that that's what I mean.
In other words, you don't have to predispose genetic makeup.
You don't have to say anything other than that they have a similar weakness.
So what I'm saying is that it may be difficult to- All that is just a story to cover up the fact that if you do a actually careful, controlled, scientific experiment to try to make sick people get- make healthy people sick, or what we- or people who don't have that illness, it doesn't work.
Full stop.
And anybody who's scientifically honest will say that proves that theory that sick people make healthy people sick.
And it's up to you to give me a study that shows that that is a real phenomena.
And Steven, I can guarantee that study doesn't exist.
No matter what you say about chicken pox parties, you're going to have to show that that is actually what happens.
Because every time it's been looked at carefully and with controls in a scientific manner, they get nothing.
And that's a fact.
We've got a few more hands here.
I'm going to jump to them.
Chris?
Thanks Tom for all the information.
I was just curious to see what is, what was the energy that was coming from the atomic bombs and such, what were they doing if these things are not true?
Well, there's no atomic bombs.
Atomic bombs is a very specific process of splitting a nucleus.
It's a fission-based process.
So that doesn't exist because there's no nucleus.
And in a nuclear reactor, there is radioactivity, which means substances naturally decay and they give off heat and you can make steam and power a city.
Just like you can burn coal and the coal can heat up water and make steam and make power and electricity and all the rest of it.
You can do that with a lot of things.
You can burn wood or coal or you can use radioactive decay.
But that's not what they're talking about with nuclear fission reactions.
They're talking about a specific process which doesn't exist because A. it's never been shown to exist and B. in theory it can't exist because nobody has even shown that a neutron or a nucleus of an atom or even an atom actually exists and I know how they claim they proved it and it's just pure nonsense.
Yeah, but still, it is a tremendous amount of energy coming from something.
Well, bombs are scalable.
Okay.
If you think there's a nuclear fission reaction which causes this tremendous explosion, you're going to have to send me the paper that proves that that is possible and that's what happened.
Because I can tell you from this nuclear physicist and our whole group looking into it, we see no evidence that that claim is true.
That's not my question.
I agree with that.
I don't have a problem with that.
My problem is that there's a tremendous amount of energy coming from something.
And if that, you know, I'm not saying it's coming from fusion or any of that stuff.
I'm just saying that somehow they were able to produce that kind of energy doing what?
Well, there's ways of making very powerful bombs.
Okay.
There's, I mean, if that's the question, how do you make a powerful bomb?
I don't know the answer to that question, but I know you can do it.
Okay.
And then if you want to make a bigger effect, you put some napalm and mustard gas in it, like they did in Hiroshima.
Oh, okay.
Thanks.
Karen, what question have you got for Tom?
Hi, Tom, always a delight to listen to you.
Um, I'm wondering how we make people aware of the fact that they don't know so much.
And I think part of what's happened is people have outsourced responsibility to determine the truth.
And so how do we a convince them that what they think is not true, what they think is true is not true, and then convince them that they have the capacity to discern truth.
So you could probably gather from the way I speak now, which is a little different than four years ago, that I am out of the convincing business.
I don't give a damn whether people are convinced or not.
I'm just going to say what I think and why I think that and how I see it.
And the other thing that's, I think, really important here is to live a life of Inquiry, search for the truth, and joy.
And so I have spent a lot of time, we were talking about this before, building our homestead and having relations with my four cats and my four goats and my four chickens and a huge garden.
And I spend most of my time doing that.
And what I hope happens someday If anything, I mean, is somebody says, you know, I've been like getting these shots and following the medical.
It's all this and I feel like crap and I'm broke and I hate my life and I hate my look at that schmo over there.
He's lucky.
He hasn't been to the doctor in 50 years.
He's just eating his food, and he seems to be really happy, and he's getting along with his wife, and he's got these cats, and he's growing his food.
I wonder what he does.
Then he comes over and says, you know, what are you doing over here?
I'm just growing turnips, you know.
You want to play with Junebug?
Because he's actually really fun to play with.
He likes his nose scratched and everything.
And that's what I hope happens.
As far as convincing people, I don't give a damn.
Our journeys are all right.
Thank you.
Convince yourself.
That's hard enough.
Thanks.
My takeaway here, Tom, is that you began to ask questions and you insisted on evidence.
And you recognize that much of what we've been told is true is actually a story.
It's a belief system.
It's a fabrication.
And much of it is probably done for financial reasons or control reasons or other reasons.
But it sounds like you've been on a journey of discovering truth.
We're discerning truth, maybe.
I have nothing against beliefs.
We all have beliefs.
We should know their beliefs.
Here's how you know.
There are actually rules to this game.
If you make a claim, and the claim is not falsifiable, then it's a belief.
It's not science.
So, some people say, I believe in God.
And you say, well, what's your evidence?
Can you prove that there is a God?
No.
So, why do you think that?
Because I believe it.
And that's fine.
I actually think that's good.
And you can say what your evidence, what has moved you in your life and the feelings and your experiences and how you see the world.
And that's great.
I mean, we all do that.
And we should do that.
But you don't lock everybody down and you don't harass them if they don't believe the same thing you do.
I mean, that's tyranny.
And you don't call it science.
You don't say there's an engineered virus, you know, if you don't even know how anybody knows there's a virus.
That's what Kennedy does.
He doesn't even know whether there's a virus or not.
Or Rand Paul, or any of these other people.
They don't even know how you would know whether that belief is true, and yet they go around saying it, as if it's science.
That's what I don't like.
Just say, I have this belief system in imaginary unicorns that they engineered so that they explode and fly up your nose.
Fine.
You want to believe that?
You can believe it all you want, because I can tell you that every one of those beliefs, the message is, be scared.
There's something out there bigger than you that's going to get you.
Nuclear weapons, engineered viruses, you know, blah, blah, blah.
It's all fear and scare tactics.
And again, they don't even know how you would know whether it's true.
That's what I don't like.
So I don't do that.
Jerry, have you got a question for Tom?
Yes.
Hi, everybody.
Hi, Tom.
Hey there.
Thanks for all your great work.
I got turned on to you back in 2020.
A friend of mine sent me a video by Kelly Brogan sitting in her backyard.
She picked up a glass and said, when my kids are sick, I drink from their glass and I don't get sick.
And that began my journey.
It took me a month to make the paradigm shift.
And then I realized, so by 2021, I started ordering your books, especially the Contagion Myth in the booklet.
And I probably bought $500 worth of books in the course of a year.
And I was trying to get the word out to people.
And I purposely ended up buying more booklets than the books because people just didn't want to read a whole damn book or whatever.
So I ended up giving a lot away and loaning a lot out.
And finally, after a while, I realized that, you know what, I'm not going to try to convert anybody here.
So the people that I was able to help were the ones who they would read the contagion math.
But then a lot of times they'd read it, and then they'd start asking me questions like, well, what about measles, and what about smallpox, and what about the Spanish flu?
And I said, read The Contagion Myth.
There's an index in The Contagion Myth.
That's one of the best things about it.
And all you have to do, you can read the book.
I had to read it three times, because I got a background in social sciences or whatever.
But everyone would just read The Contagion Myth.
And then if you want to go back to something, go into the index, and you can look up any of those major pandemic-type things, and it explains it all.
So I would recommend everyone read The Contagion Myth if you've got to read it.
I read it three times.
And then you can just go on the index, and when people say, well, what about the Spanish flu?
I say, read the contagion myth.
What about measles?
And I was reading in the measles part in the contagion myth, you talk about energy resonance, too.
Which is really interesting because I noticed since I started following you, you've started to get more deep into the whole aspect of our psyche and how we actually, we manifest everything in our life and we either create sickness or we create health.
So that's, that's my blurb and thanks a million for all your work.
I met you at the convention back in 2022.
And I'm so grateful to you and all your contemporaries, Andy and Kelly.
I can just tell everybody, I met all of them at the convention.
They're not only brilliant people, they're great people.
They've got great hearts.
And we're winning this.
We're going to win this.
Yeah, I mean, thank you for that.
That's why I don't have to work, because I got Terry buying my books, so I can make a living.
But I would also, anybody who's really interested in this, you have to watch Tom, I know we need to let you go.
Are you still writing?
Is there a place people can go to see what you're writing?
articulate about this than all the rest of us.
And Kelly Brogan is a superstar.
So we should pay attention to what she says.
Yes.
Tom, I know we need to let you go.
Are you still writing?
Is there a place people can go to see what you're writing?
I mean, everything is in the drtomcowen.com website.
I can take a few more questions if you want.
Yeah.
If you're good with that, we've got a few hands here.
So, Barbara, got a question for Tom?
I do, just hopping on.
Tom, what do you think about this whole concept now about detoxing?
It's a huge industry.
There's so many different protocols.
There's, you know, the whole seasonal kind of thing.
I've been really wrestling with this, given everything, and I've been following Closely the last four years, huge shifts in my paradigms of all kinds.
Just curious what you think about that notion.
If we're living well, we may not need to, or do we need to?
And if so, I can't see how all these supplements that cost fortune are really necessary to be part of that.
But I'm wondering what you've discovered.
Thank you.
Mainly every so-called symptom that we think we have, like cough and mucus and fever and swollen joints and everything, those are elimination symptoms.
Those are your body's attempt to heal, without exception.
And so, you know, if you don't want to go through that process, If you need to, you can circumvent it by doing things that get stuff out of your lungs before you have to get mucus to do it.
So, we call that detoxification.
But that's what your body's going to do anyway.
So, right, if you just, you know, live the way I described, you know, get in the sun and earth and eat good food and have good relations, you don't need to do any of that stuff.
Take care of it.
I love you.
Thank you.
That's awesome.
Karen, what question have you got for Tom?
We'll do Karen and Dan and then I think we'll call it a night.
We will.
Good.
Thank you.
Great.
Thanks.
I'm loving what you're saying.
It's wonderful.
My question is, I have a number of friends who've, they're Fairly athletic.
They've had some bad bone breaks.
And so they've ended up with, often with metal implants to hold the bone in place.
And I'm really curious if you have an opinion about how having this metal, I'm guessing it's usually stainless steel, inside the body is affecting human health.
Yeah, sometimes it's titanium also.
You know, the real thing is, here's the real tragedy of medicine these days.
So, there's an old biology and an old, old biology, and now there's a new biology.
In the old, old biology, They had a realistic view of the composition of the world and living beings, which was we were basically different forms of electromagnetic waves that essentially emerges from the ether, right?
And then they saw a body as a different form of that wave.
And then in particular, they saw the bones as frozen music.
And because they saw things realistically, not atoms and all this nonsense, you know, these stories that we made up, they realized that if you broke your bone, it was a problem of the frequency was now disturbed.
And so they actually would sing or put people in cathedrals.
These buildings that are all over the realm, these are not churches and cathedrals.
These are healing devices that concentrate different electromagnetic energy.
And even though I can't prove what I'm about to say, my guess is they could heal a broken bone in a day.
Because they knew that they knew the origin of the disturbance.
was a disturbed frequency because that's all there is.
So then we get to the old biology and they don't know anything.
And so the bone doesn't heal and then it gets weird and the bacteria come to digest it and it's all a mess, right?
And then they put rods in which further disturb the electromagnetic frequencies and wavelengths and then you're sick for the rest of your life.
And it's all because we are in a transition period.
And, you know, if there's anything I would like is to know, like, I don't know how to do what they used to do.
I wish I did.
But I know the base, I know the outline, I know the thinking behind it, but I don't know, I don't have the device and I don't have the strategy of making that work, nor do I know anybody who does.
I don't know if it's true, but if anybody would know, I would, because I'm looking hard.
And I don't think we're there yet, because we're still in this delusional space of we're made of bouncing particles that are randomly colliding with each other and somehow form a monkey.
Right, that's the story.
And so then if you break it, doesn't work, you stick a rod in, and that disturbs the whole flow, and then you get worse, but anyways, you can still walk.
It's pathetic medicine, based on a misunderstanding of what a living being is and how it can get sick and how it can heal.
So it sounds like they'd be better off to get the metal out.
And maybe do a lot of singing.
Not necessarily.
The problem is we don't know how to do that.
And if you take the metal out, then the bone collapses because it's already weak.
And so, you know, it's one thing, one problem compounds the next.
And so, no, I'm not saying just get it out because they might be, they're so compromised because of basically ignorance.
Right.
And I can't tell the person how to go about healing it.
I mean, I have, I'm working on it and I have things, but you know, we're not there yet.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Tom, that reminds me, when I was in Egypt, they explained to us just what you've described, is that the healing there was done through vibration.
Yeah.
And they would say that the various obliques were different heights, different compositions, and they would strike it and then have the person have their back up against it and absorb the vibration.
At least that's what they told us how medicine was practiced then.
Yes, the word was made flesh.
The word is a vibration, it's a frequency, and the word in some way that I don't quite get yet, but it condenses somehow and becomes actual physical substance.
And we flipped that whole thing around and said, we're just bouncing atoms that have no consciousness, nothing, and they just happen to collide and make a frog.
And it's just a bogus nonsense story.
If you could recommend one book for this group, what would that be?
Depends what you're interested in, but if you're interested in biology and you haven't read Harold Hillman, then you're biologically illiterate.
The what?
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