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March 24, 2024 - Jim Fetzer
01:00:04
The New JFK Show # 295 with David Mantik, Larry Rivera, James Fetzer and Gary King
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Welcome to the new JFK Show number 295.
We have the great pleasure of having Dr. David Mantic, one of the top JFK researchers in the world.
We've got Larry Rivera, one of the top JFK researchers in the world.
And we've got Jim Fetzer, one of the top JFK researchers in the world.
And I'm Gary K., and I'm really proud to be here.
And we're going to Turn it over to Larry and Dr. David Manik.
They've got a show lined up.
Let me add, I think if we had David Lifton here and Doug Horn and John Costello, we'd have pretty close to... A shutout.
Yeah, really.
I mean, but David, you have been doing such sensational work from the beginning, way back in 1992.
Did you ever imagine this journey would carry you to this destination?
No, I could not see that far.
That's truly extraordinary to think about that.
I thought this would maybe be a year or two, but it's been way, way beyond that.
Not only that, but of course, at the time you were a myopic, and believe it or not, that was a sensational benefit.
That was an incredible advantage that no one else had.
David, it was a huge advantage.
I mean, you know, I had the physics background, knew about optical densitometry, but because your eyesight was so constricted... Well, I was almost blind.
That's why I could see what was going on in the films and the x-rays.
Just amazing!
Just amazing how what one might have thought was a handicap turned out in this set of circumstances.
I often wonder who arranged that.
How would you compare the case today where it stands versus when you first came out in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Dr. Martin?
Well, as I said in this book, it's amazing how little the public knew in 1963.
But almost as amazing is how much more we know now than we did even 10 years ago, to say nothing of 30 years ago.
Right.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We haven't come a long way.
And there's still a lot of detractors out there, but we're fighting on anyhow.
The propaganda onslaught has been so massive, David, and so stunning, that here you had the day of the assassination, NBC, the other major network, reported two shots, a small clean puncture wound to the throat, and a shot to the right temple that blew his brains out the back of his head, you got!
Malcolm Kilduff, the acting press secretary, right through the head.
And then he got the word report and there are no shots from in front.
I mean, isn't that staggering?
Yeah, Malcolm Kilduff pretty much told us the story.
He didn't report a shot from the school book depository on that day.
He did not.
Absolutely.
You put together what the FBI and the Secret Service concluded that day.
There's been three shots with three hits.
You know, the back, five and a half inches below the collar, about shallow shot, far as second knuckle of your little finger, the Connelly shot in the back, JFK shot in the back of the head.
You put that together with the two shots being reported on the networks all afternoon and evening, and you got four shots that were legitimate.
How could they conceal that, David?
I mean, it's just amazing.
Well, we know that both Connellys agreed with what you just said, and so did Jackie Kennedy.
They were there.
They heard what was happening.
They saw what was happening.
Poor Jackie has suffered such a dire fate.
Some people even think Jackie shot Jack, which is about as dumb as it gets, but it's one of those myths that seems to endure.
There's a lot of that going on.
I'm actually on 153 News going on about Bill Cooper saying that the driver turned around and shot him, and people really believe in that.
And it's amazing how many people believe that it was all a big production, basically like Sandy Hook, and nothing really happened.
I'm telling you that there's a lot of people that believe that.
Have you run into that, David?
People saying they thought the whole thing was staged?
No, that's pretty uncommon in my experience.
Most people don't know much of anything, first of all.
And those that do tend to be a little more sensible than that.
Of course, have you looked at all the fake evidence and even body doubles and all that?
I mean, you could put together a case that there was a lot of fabrication, but not the assassination itself being nothing but a... Yeah, we can put that into the wastebasket, I think.
Well, we all do, but it's just surprising that it seems to be resistant, you know, like a vampire.
Well, human beings, as well as we do now after investigating this case, nothing should surprise us anymore.
Yes, yes.
It's been so many years.
You want to squeeze in a question?
I got you off.
Go ahead.
I was just saying that it's amazing how many, look, we all know that there's been lots of false flag events that were completely fabricated and there were no truth to them at all.
But I'm telling you that more and more people are falling for these outlets, just like JFK was no different than Sandy Hook.
I mean, it's really happening and people saying that the Secret Service shot him from behind by accident.
This stuff keeps going out there and we have to basically fight against absurdity like that.
Well, keep it up.
It's unfortunate that we have to do that.
That should have been buried ages ago.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
So, if we can get into the book at all, what is this volume now different from, how does it make it different from the one that you published about the medical evidence a couple of years ago, specifically the Harper fragment and where it came from?
I saw that you integrated some of that information into the new book.
Can you tell us about that?
Well, when Jerome, who likes to be called Jerry, Corsi, contacted me, his goal for this book was to make it a little more accessible to the layman.
Right.
Which I hope we have achieved.
That was our goal.
And so there's a little bit more about my personal journey in here, a little more about my timeline, the way things actually unraveled.
I've never really done that in any detail before.
So it's a little bit more storytelling.
But it still includes the data that I collected from the National Archives in context, in the timeline.
So I've never really told a story about my experience as such before, so this attempts to do that.
I think that's great.
That's great.
Maybe you needed a more accessible, reader-friendly version, and I think you got it here.
Right.
And how do you explain, for example, the x-rays in the book to that layperson?
Well, I focus a lot on that 6.5 millimeter on the frontal x-ray, which lies directly inside JFK's right orbit.
This is the thing that nobody saw the night of the autopsy, even though the x-rays were on public display for dozens and dozens of people there.
It's clear that they all looked at this and nobody saw it.
And yet, it's as plain as day.
And as I tell in my own story in this book, when I showed these pictures to my 7-year-old son, who had no training as a radiologist, he spotted it instantly.
And then my 5-year-old daughter, who had even less training in radiology, hadn't seen what we were doing, walked across the room and looked at it and said, well, what's it supposed to look like?
I told her it was mainly white.
And she said, oh, that's it there.
She found it right away.
But everybody at the autopsy missed it.
Now, how do you explain that?
It wasn't there.
But this is not.
No, it wasn't there at the autopsy, of course.
And we can't get some crazy people to admit that, even though everybody who is there admits it. - Is it that under a law?
Before the ARB, the radiologists all admitted it, so we have to accept that.
So that's from the premise that they are authentic.
What was that?
That's from the premise that the x-rays, autopsy x-rays, are authentic.
Yeah, well they're copies.
They're mostly authentic, but they've been modified in critical areas, including the addition in the darkroom, later on, of this 6.5mm object.
That was not their original.
Superimposed, correct.
It was superimposed as a double exposure in the darkroom, and I showed how that could be done in that era.
Right.
No problem.
David, when did you sort out the difference between the two head shots?
I mean, that was, you know, initially, we had the distribution of metallic particles.
It seemed to be from the same shot, but you gradually realized they were separate and required separate causal origins.
Yeah, we're focused on the two frontal shots, and I didn't do that.
Doug Horn did that.
Totally.
Before I caught on to it, Doug really put the pieces together.
We know from the x-rays that there had to be a frontal shot high in the forehead above the right orbit at the hairline.
And we know that for sure because the metallic particles are there on the x-ray.
We can't deny that.
That's absolutely true.
But the problem with that, of course, is that it doesn't explain the blowout in the back of the head.
It doesn't explain why the motorcycle men were hit by tissue debris behind the limousine.
That could only happen from a separate shot from the right temple, which is distinctly different.
And both of those shots were observed in Dealey Plaza.
That is the damage from those shots.
One in the forehead and one in the right temple.
Those were observed in Dealey Plaza.
We're not just relying on the x-rays for those.
Now on this shot, particular shot that photos existed of that because as I recall Joe O'Donnell Saw those photographs.
Exactly.
And so we have witnesses who saw photographs in the immediate aftermath of the autopsy, where those wounds were there.
And then, of course, we have the story from Quentin Schwinn.
Right, right, right.
In Rochester, New York, which is the home of the film.
Was presented, yeah.
Made the films.
Yeah.
Quentin saw what really looks to be an authentic JFK autopsy.
It looked exactly like JFK.
And there in that picture we see in this artist's reconstruction exactly where that temple, sorry not temple, but the forehead wound above the right eye was located.
So that was done under the direction of Quentin Schwinn, who saw the autopsy.
We don't have that photograph, of course, we just have his reconstruction.
When Schwinn, who went for the interview, I cite that whole panorama in my book exactly like that, you know, so I'm happy that this is picked up and because that all came from Douglas Horn, obviously.
Yeah, Doug Horn.
Well, I think Schwinn contacted Horn initially.
That's how that got started.
Yeah, he said I got all this information.
That's very powerful evidence.
And I questioned Schwinn very closely about the photographic features of this particular film.
photographic features of this particular film.
And Schwinn was a photographic major at the Rochester Institute of Technology, I believe it was.
And Schwinn was a photographic major at the Rochester Institute of Technology, I believe it was.
So he knew what he was talking about.
So he knew what he was talking about.
So I asked him all the detailed questions about it.
So I asked him all the detailed questions about it.
And it was clearly his impression that this was an authentic autopsy photograph.
And it was clearly his impression that this was an authentic autopsy photograph.
The aging of the film was appropriate.
The aging of the film was appropriate.
The coloration of the film, everything matched what it should.
The coloration of the film.
Everything matched what it should.
So are we, so that our audience can, you know, get a picture of what's going on here.
We're talking about two shots, one to the temple frontal, and then a little bit more tangential from there.
Yes.
The one was at the hairline in the forehead, on the right side of the forehead, but at the hairline.
So it's well above the eye.
And many people who were in the emergency room did not see it because it was obscured by JFK's hair.
But Dr. Crenshaw saw it in the emergency room, and he reported this live on television.
Yeah, I've seen that interview.
There's a picture of him doing that in our book.
You can see Crenshaw pointing to the spot.
And at the same page, we have a picture of the autopsy photograph, and so you can correlate it visually yourself and see, wow, they match.
Very good.
Of course, Jackie said from the front, it looked just fine.
So even she couldn't see it, even though she said he was having trouble holding his skull and brains together at the back of his head.
For real.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, I would like, uh, you know, like in your book, uh, uh, Murder in Dealey Plaza, you have an image of the blast sit out in the, in the back of the head that it's very dramatic because there's a lot- You're talking about the sketch?
Yeah.
The sketch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and, and, uh, so how much damage could there have been back there?
Uh, if we take into account, for example, The Harper Fragment, which a facsimile that I'm holding here in my hand, and other pieces that might have blown out as well.
Yeah, we know there were other pieces.
They were found on the street.
So the hole was bigger than the Harper Fragment.
It had to be because it was blown on the street.
So the Harper is just a component, a small component of the whole thing.
Yep, exactly.
Absolutely.
Okay, Jim?
So Doug Horn figured out of the two shots to the head, David?
Yeah, we have to give Doug credit for that.
Yeah, I want to correct that.
That was a real breakthrough.
All the rest of us were a little bamboozled by that, although I must say I was puzzled by it, but I did not sort it out.
It was Doug who did that.
Very good, very good, very good.
And did he discern it was from that ground curbside sewer?
I don't think.
I don't remember Doug talking about the ground side sewer shot.
I just don't remember him ever talking about that, nor have I talked very much about it.
But of course, you and I went there together and you climbed down in the sewer and concluded it was wrong angle for the other shot.
But it was completely different.
It was completely different.
It had already been altered.
That entire Opening the bottom, yeah.
That's true, Larry, but still, in terms of the angle, it wasn't good for the shot that David was contemplating at the time.
I mean, when did you first realize there were two shots to the side of the head, David?
Two shots from the front, you mean?
Yeah, two shots from the front.
Well, only after Doug Horn brought it up.
That was in his five-volume set, where that first appeared in print.
So that's been available to the public for over ten years now.
2009.
Before that, nobody seriously considered that.
They may have thought about it, but they didn't have any evidence for it.
Very good, very good, very good.
So Doug really did us a tremendous service.
Yeah, Doug is a major domo here.
Yeah, very impressive.
He's rather reticent.
He's not wild about doing interviews and the like.
I think he felt he got pilloried too many times unjustly, and of course he was.
Yes.
Well, he's going to be in Kansas City next month.
Oh, that's good.
And he was a major presence at our last meeting in Pittsburgh in November.
Uh-huh.
He gave a talk and assisted in my talk.
Excellent.
Excellent.
OK, let me see if I can get this.
Do you want to make a host?
No, no.
I'm looking at this conference.
It's going to be next month.
And Douglas Horn.
I didn't know he was going to be there, so that's good news.
The first time I met Douglas Horn, he actually cited Larry Rivera's work about the Secret Service spreading out into the Dealey Plaza, if you remember that.
And that's when I first met you.
Oh, way back then!
That's when the Newcomb tapes, we first started to work on the Newcomb tapes.
I was blown away when I first heard about those.
Oh, they tell you exactly.
You gotta work from there, you know, and see how the event unfolded based on their interviews there, which... And the whole story is just so incredible, you know, that they were suppressed the way that they were suppressed.
Have you ever spoken to Tink Thompson about those interviews?
No, I don't even know him!
You'd be surprised how... I have no idea what Tink would say about that, because he cannot possibly accept any of that evidence in view of his position.
You'd be surprised how little fanfare Larry's work has gotten on the Newcombe tapes.
Oh yeah, I agree with you.
It's amazing.
We first published the YouTube videos, Gary, I think 2014 or 2015.
Uh, the JFK Horseman one and two and that, you know, the entire, even with the transcripts and everything and the discussions that we had, you know, and, but we, my, in my opinion, it needs to be continually.
I've done a bit in my book about them, too, and I keep saying, well, this is not what we see in the Zapruder film, but that's what these movies are about.
When Douglas Warren found out about them, he said, man, this changes everything.
For some people, but probably not for Tink Tong.
Awful lot of crickets going on.
All I hear is crickets.
David, has word reached Rancho Mirage about the Secret Service agent actually getting in the limousine during the limo stop?
Which is exactly what... The second Secret Service man, that's a hard thing to say.
Is that what you're asking about?
Yeah, yeah.
Has the word got to Rancho Mirage?
Have you heard about it before?
Well, I heard about it before, but I don't think anybody else did.
Well, it came from Hargis and Ellis.
Go ahead, Larry, expand.
It came from Hargis and Ellis.
They were very, very specific about that, you know?
Yeah, that's good.
Both of them, you know.
You know, and a second Secret Service agent, we almost lost him, you know, and everything he was talking about, you know.
Photographs seem to corroborate this, I believe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The way in which they altered and obfuscated his figure in the limousine, David.
Yeah, I know.
Now the Z film is being scrutinized in that manner where we're getting a lot of, you know, alteration there, airbrushing, and, you know, it just goes to show how much, you know, How overboard they went to alter this whole sequence there, you know?
That was a lot of work.
Well, they didn't have too much time.
They were a little sloppy.
That's right.
That's right.
And they left a lot of mistakes in the film, and we're still discovering.
They just didn't have time to do it right.
Yeah, like flashing.
The flashing lights in the film was another one.
No, no.
You know that one, those frames that showed the right tail light, the brake light, is off?
And the left one is on.
There's a couple of frames, about five or six.
It's been airbrushed over.
That's what it is.
Yeah, that's likely.
It's been airbrushed over the brake light.
Yeah.
And in fact, the whole back there.
And the blinker aid doesn't match up.
There's just so many things.
We have a lot of eyes looking at this now.
A whole lot more eyes than we used to.
Maybe Jim can give me the screen here since we're on it.
Because I just want to show you guys something.
- You got it.
Okay.
Have you had any advice for big interviews by news, major news media, David?
I mean, it ought to be.
Next Monday, we're scheduled with Coast to Coast.
According to Wikipedia, they have 2.2 million listeners.
Yeah, they used to have a lot more, but yeah, they do.
Yeah, they used to be at 10 million, but the Wikipedia says they're down to 2.2.
That's the biggest one I know of.
Yeah, that's good.
I should read a chapter of John B. Wellesley, but I think he'd be thrilled to have you and Jerry on.
Well, do your best.
Yeah, I shall.
I'm right here.
I'm just going to show you.
Something here.
Okay, screen share.
Of course, we're hoping that RFK Jr.
will eventually speak out to the media, too.
I suspect he will, but I have no idea what the timeline might be.
Okay, you guys see this?
Yes.
Okay, John Connolly, black suit and shirt.
This is the actual hole, okay.
That's very good.
After it had been sent out to the laundry.
And you can see the ebolst.
Yeah, you can, yeah.
Yeah, and I'll be happy to send you these images.
And this is so important because this gives you an idea of the trajectory.
This looks like a flat shot, Jim, Perhaps from the second floor of the Dow Tax Building.
This is one that really has to be on a flat trajectory, if you ask me.
Look at, you know, this is obviously an exit hole.
I'm amazed that this image is out there.
A fellow researcher from the UK sent it to me.
My inference had been this was Mack Wallace from the Book Depository firing at Connolly in the mistaken belief it was Ralph Yarborough.
Well, but this is more of a flat, if I can visualize this one, than the one that penetrated the wrist and the thigh.
I think there's two different, obviously, two different shots.
You're arguing that this is from the Deltex building?
I mean, this is a flat enough trajectory.
Yeah, I would have to plot this, you know, in a 3D program, but it's very interesting that this that this exists, this evidence exists.
OK, so here we're seeing, obviously, where Connolly, you know, his mouth is puffed.
Right.
And here again, the difference here is the suits.
You know, Jeff K is wearing gray and he's wearing, he always wore black.
You know, he's holding the Stetson.
He's already been shot.
Now, which one, which shot would this be?
The one that takes out his lung, you know, and he's got this pulmonary condition there and you can't even breathe when, or is, would this be the thigh, the wrist?
Obviously not the wrist because he's holding on to the, to the hat there.
Okay.
So, just... Well, he may have been hit by more than one shot, too.
Absolutely!
Two or even three.
So, this is a part of the project that we've got on the ZFilm, you know, breaking it down in data streams, you know, and I didn't want to really take over this thing here.
And, you know, this is a clear example of the extensive alteration here, you know.
going on, you know, so and this is the second agent, he's wearing the gray suit, you know, and this is equivalent to frame 343.
And here's what I was telling you about.
Okay, you see that?
I mean, that's obvious airbrush.
Yeah, the brake light is blacked out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
And it's like that for several frames, you know, as you look at this.
Very peculiar.
Okay.
But But we're able to get all this, discerning all this new information, you know, from the digital quality that we're able to, which I thought these certain people out of Hollywood were gonna provide, and that never happened, all right?
Because remember back, all these big I don't know, 5K scans or something of the Z film, you know, and finding out things that we didn't know about the Z film, and it's been there all along, you know, if you ask me, so... Yeah, we waited for a long time for that.
It never happened.
Yeah, you know, but now we're seeing... One side comment on Connelly.
He developed pulmonary fibrosis as a result of this shot, for the rest of his life, and it was a contributing cause to his death.
Well, and it's no joke having a perforated lung the way he did.
I've seen that, you know, and it's not a joke.
You know, it's very painful.
They have to document it.
You've got to put tubes in between your ribs, you know, and that in itself is excruciating, you know, to drain the edema and the fluids and everything.
Well said.
And we've had a recent example of this as well around January 6th when Senator Paul was attacked by some crazies And fractured multiple ribs and punctured his lung and made his COVID infection much worse.
So he's now at a higher risk for injury from later COVID infections or any kind of pulmonary infection.
So yeah, we don't want to do that to someone's lung unless they're truly your enemies.
You're talking about Ron Paul?
Not Ron.
Rand Paul.
Senator Rand Paul.
Yeah.
David, I have a number of images here, some of which are, of course, all too familiar, but others perhaps less.
Well, here, I'll just go directly to the article.
Hang on.
I saw that.
Thank you.
Yes, yes.
It's getting a pretty good response.
Yeah, that was good.
But your audience may want to check that out.
Yes, yes, for some reason.
Oh, there we go.
There we go.
There we go.
We get the cover of the book and we get your diagram, David.
What you talk about, ever so briefly, the arrows and so forth.
Absolutely.
Excellent.
Good, good, good.
And then, of course, the book cover and the three where I mentioned, in particular, you'd introduce... Yeah, your images here were wonderful.
Well done.
Yeah, happy with the images I chose?
The images are great, and that's a big thing.
And there's Malcolm Tilduff.
That's really nice to have there.
I know, I know!
And how could they bury that name?
And how could the Warren Report have the balls to conceal the fact that he was shot in the right temple or the right forehead when you got the press secretary I mean, it's just outrageous.
I think it was after this they realized they could bamboozle the American people about anything, David.
Well, maybe if we had the current press secretary there, they would have listened.
Oh, goodness.
Ouch.
So, so right off the bat, if you put together two plus two... He said, Jim, he said, it's a simple matter of... A bullet right through the head.
That's right.
I know he did.
Attribute it to Admiral Berkeley.
I mean, how could you do better?
And then the New York Times immediately is talking about a lone gunman.
I mean, you see how the New York Times was used to perpetrate the fraud.
I mean, they were absolutely vital.
Just outrageous.
Just outrageous.
And then, of course, all we have about Lee and the Doorway, which they were seeking to conceal so massively.
Don't you love how Larry did the reconstruction, David, showing Billy in his red-and-white, vertically-striped short sleeves?
So well!
That's the way it really was, too!
It's very colorful, yes.
I know, but it was so evident, obvious this was not the same guy as the Doorman!
I mean, how outrageous!
And then, of course, your masterful stuff on Area P. I mean, that was so fantastic.
Yeah, these images are so useful.
Yeah, you must love how Larry found how Jackie's white glove highlighted the defect in earlier frames, David.
343, yeah, 343.
Yes, yes.
Just wonderful stuff.
And then, of course, we have the view from inside.
Well, this is actually Larry at the above-ground sewer opening there on the top.
Those came from Garrison.
Those are Garrison's guys.
Oh, those were Garrison guys?
Yeah, those went in, I think, the 67 when they went to Dallas, you know.
And that and the other one where you can see them inside, you know.
I didn't put that one in the article, yeah.
Yeah, those are...
Then, of course, you got Larry's blender view from inside the curbside.
Right.
Yeah, just put a camera there and see what, you know, what comes out of it and put the car where X marks the spot and that's it, you know?
X marks the spot indeed.
Yeah.
And then, of course, David and I were struck by Newsweek putting the location for the fatal shot 30 feet further down and opposite this Curbside sewer opening.
I mean, they were telling us something.
What struck me here is the thickness of the asphalt there that had, you know, been laid onto there, you know, year after year.
And we're talking about this, it might have been taken like in 67, 68.
So you already see that, you know, that level has been rising since 1963.
Go ahead.
Well, those were, those were the ends of the... Yeah, thank you for that.
Those were really good pictures.
It's getting a pretty good discussion.
I think there's going to be a lot more.
There are 33 or 34 comments so far where I've made responses or rebuttals.
Six or eight of them.
I found, you know, I found interesting, uh, what was it last week when we did, uh, the, uh, cubby hole over there with, uh, Our friend there with the ladder.
A Capsule Air photograph, David.
You can actually see the assassin walking away with a ladder.
It's amazing.
Yeah, I saw that.
Yeah.
Isn't that just terrific?
Yeah.
Now, what's next here?
You know, going forward, obviously, you know, it's the youth movement, you know, younger generations need to get involved.
You know, I think David Knight, You know, as a superstar in the making, if he isn't already, you know, uh, with his, you know, uh, organization skills and his impetus, you know, I'm just amazed.
Uh, he's only 50 years old and he's the guy that's right now, he's going to carry that torch.
Absolutely.
Uh, I'm convinced, convinced, you know, and, uh, but.
David, did we ever tell you how, Larry, they're going to have the mock trial of Lee Oswald, and Larry was going to be a witness?
But Larry sent them in advance how he'd done the superposition, proving that Lee was in the doorway, and they caught him out of the program.
No, I hadn't heard about this.
No.
David, it's just outrageous!
Just outrageous.
Larry, tell David this story.
This is so sad.
These are supposed to be good people, and we're cutting out the key witness for the whole thing to blow it apart.
Larry, tell David.
I mean, that, you know, that happened, you know, I was, you know, sorry.
Yeah, I remember that episode.
You were originally invited.
It is important.
They were going to have the mock trial, and they asked me to come in as an expert.
Yeah, I remember that episode.
You were originally invited.
Right, right.
And then they left me stranded in Houston.
He sent them, see, in advance what he was going to present, David.
And at that point, they had to-- Yeah, I remember all that.
And this is why I didn't even have any electricity in Puerto Rico.
You know, the hurricanes had just hit.
And I was living day to day with a gallon of gasoline for a little generator.
It was crazy.
And then at the 11th hour, they said, you're out.
You know, oh, what happened?
Oh, you guys and Don Fox were talking about anti-Semitic subjects, you know, on the New JFK Show number 88 or something like that.
And they went, we know you didn't say anything, Dispective against Jews, you know, but there's Don Fox, you know, and Gary King, you know, ringing this bell and everything.
Yeah, I just rang it.
So that's how he got rid of me.
Yeah, when you're reading Patton Bomb, he's the one I could ring the bell to.
That's fine.
So anyway, and then Jim showed up at the conference and a certain person was there talking about The trial, and Jim got on the microphone and said, man, you know, what is wrong with you people?
And he let him have a piece of his mind.
Let's just put it that way.
It was outrageous, David.
Barry's work was so brilliant.
It was so perfect.
And it was scientific, objective, and definitive.
Which is the thing about science, you know, and the way it was written up, you know, you have a, It's written up as a scientific paper, you know, with methods, methodology and, and, and, you know, you're bringing all the information is how you got there.
And then you expect other, other peers to review it and say, okay, I did what you said, you know, in that paper, you know, but I got a different result.
Never happened.
Just never happened at all.
You know, and then you got this other Prayer Man thing, you know, going on, and that's not even scientific, not even close to being what, you know, in the doorway paper was, you know, and just, you know, what can you do?
Obviously, you know, they sell books.
Prayer Man, Jim.
Ever heard of him?
Oh yeah, that was a big Ralph N. Kaye thing.
No, no, no, no, not even close.
All right.
Larry, you want to expand on Prayer Minute?
How are we doing, Gary?
We've got about half of our half-hour glass to go.
We've got about 20 minutes.
That's very good.
David, would I be right?
This is really medical, scientific, and not primarily primary, political, motivational, and so forth.
Is there any discussion about the players and who is responsible in the new book?
No, not in our book.
That was not our focus.
We wanted to really limit our discourse and not get into the somewhat grayer areas, although I'm keenly interested myself in this area, but it's not in our book.
Yes, yes, yes.
I just want to confirm from the pages I've read so far, that was my inference and I wanted to confirm.
Absolutely.
You want to elaborate on the prayer man thing, Larry?
I'm not really that much.
I just heard about it and they wrote a book and, you know, supposedly they identified Lee Oswald as a man in the Wigman.
Have you seen the Wigman film?
And it was in the corner and there will be a north, there will be northwest corner of the, of the doorway over there in that corner.
And you can see a figure there.
But there is so very little definition to work with, okay?
At least with The Man in the Doorway, we were able to get a lot—in fact, the entire—both Billy Lovelady and Lee Oswald, a lot more definition to work with and be able to do overlays.
With The Prayer Man, it's just such a small area, and it's blurry, and Bart Kemp, I believe, is the author of the book, and he's out of the Netherlands, I believe.
And he's, you know, and they have their theory there that Billy Love Ladies is actually doormat, okay?
Yeah, it's just more bullshit in other words.
I just...
Pulled up some slides in case there was anything we wanted to catch capture that we haven't already addressed here.
This is all pretty familiar stuff.
Coming to the fore, of course, the Z-film.
Have you had any new insights about Zapruder based upon your latest research?
Well, if I did, it's all in my Pittsburgh talk from last November, which is online, and the link is cited in my book.
Okay, that's Costello's Z-film.
Yeah, sure.
Can I show you mine?
Yeah, hang on a sec.
Absolutely.
Let me switch over and make you a host again, my friend.
Jim, can you send me that Costello Z film?
Sure.
Go ahead, Larry.
Larry, I made you a post. - Okay.
Just a second.
- What kind of informal feedback are you getting, David, What kind of informal feedback are you getting, David, on the book?
I mean, aren't a lot of people reaching out to you?
Not a lot.
Probably fewer than 10 so far, and these are people who know me and have an email address.
You see that?
Very few people have my email address, so I wouldn't expect too many personal contacts.
Okay.
This is interesting, David.
I've never seen this version before.
Go ahead.
It's a lot lighter.
It's digitally cleaned up.
Look.
Comment on it, Larry, as you go forward.
Did it freeze up?
You can see there the usual Yeah.
Did you deliberately stop?
Even just stopping right here, you can see all the airbrushing, and the greenish haze that permeates.
Nelly was supposed to have let go of that bouquet a long time ago, yet it's still floating here.
You see this?
And I just did a random stop here.
Here, this is a gray suit.
This is not Connelly, all right?
And then they also got some airbrushing here and here and here.
You know, it's just outrageous once you get this type of... Here, again.
You see this?
Look at... You know, it just changes here.
The green haze here.
And look how it's cut off here.
See this?
Amazing stuff here.
You see that?
Oh, and here's the second agent, all right?
And he's arranging bodies, you know, from the people that I've spoken to, you know.
And, you know, because Connelly and Nelly are on the floorboards here, you know.
And so, very interesting footage here that, very clean.
And even at the end here, you can see that.
There we go.
Let me just back up a little bit.
There it is.
See right here?
Now he's in the back.
That's not JFK.
This guy, he's already in the back there, you know.
So, that's, I just wanted to show you mine.
Oh, you don't want to go all the way through?
All the way through?
No, I did already.
So, that's what we're now finding out, you know, the extensive, extensive alteration of the Z film, which we knew, but, you know, even more than we had known about previously.
Yes, yes, yes.
I'll just pull up some more images.
I mean, you know, this was a Godzilla, as you say.
We know all about the camera and the split and unsplit and all John's brilliant work on the film and his introduction.
David, I'm really amazed how many are still not familiar with John's work on the manner... They're not serious researchers if they've ignored it.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Kind of stunning in many ways.
And then, of course, your special with a five hit and Larry's horseman, JFK horseman, with the holes in the shirt and the jacket.
That's the one.
Back up a little bit.
That's the one that Marty shots.
Right there.
That's the one.
He said, this is impossible.
You cannot, you know, Explain this here, you know, see how low that on the shirt is, but then you got it coming out of his throat?
Come on, man!
Yeah, this is all pictured in our book.
This exact image is in our book.
You know, come on, man!
And that with the American University speech, you know, those were his two main theses for the book.
I don't need to prove anything else, you know.
I mean, that's ridiculous to suggest that could have come out the throat, of course.
We have a whole appendix in our book about Spector's escapades with these images, including other ones.
It's outrageous, I mean, how blatantly they perpetrate fraud on the American people.
I mean, we had a greater case.
I mean, you got the moon landing, you got 9-11, but this was so personal.
Yeah, and he had a lot to do with it, Arlen Spector.
Yeah, should I read my back?
I'll blow up a few more in case we want to comment on any of it.
Was someone saying that the mark here, Boswell's mark, didn't correspond to the shirt and the jacket?
Did we hear that or not?
David, doesn't Boswell's mark here correspond to the shirt and the jacket?
I think regarding the Parkland Doctors, you know, the documentary that came out last year, which is so stunning, which just, I mean, how can you refute this, you know, and especially that they didn't want this to be published and it wouldn't come out until they were all, you know, gone.
And it's so obvious, you know, That the difference in what they saw at Parkland with the official version of, you know, Bethesda and Walter Reed and all that, you know, is just so incredible, you know.
Yeah.
And those doctors, you could feel that so many years later they were still feeling, you know, this thing that they had been carrying for all their lives.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a very nice image there.
This image is also in our book, so is this one.
Good, David, good.
Yeah, it's all in one appendix, so you can just slide back and forth between images and see how impossible all of this is.
You know, Roy discovered there was actually damage to the upholstery.
Yeah, Nick's in the upholstery.
Fascinating.
And, of course, forward changing.
This is such a good version of the Alton 6.
I really like this one.
It's very, very clean.
And, of course, the windshield.
Until we got a hold of the negative, Jim, with David Knight.
That is incredible.
You know, we have the negative.
That's a great shot.
The previous one, 225, showing that the window was damaged way before the Alton 6 photograph.
Yes, yes.
Very good.
Yeah, of course, absolutely.
Oh, probably around 211 or 212.
I agree, I agree.
Well, you know, when it was reviewed in Washington, D.C.
at NPIC, they chose, I think it was Z191.
And when I looked at the images at the Sixth Floor Museum, I could see it pretty well at 193.
193.
Yeah.
But only in 255, you're seeing the reaction, you know, afterwards, of course, but yeah.
And 193 happens to be the point up at the top of Elm Street, where the car is completely stationary for about two or three seconds, as seen from the cubbyhole.
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
We've been there.
So, that shot may have been made from a greater distance, and I would agree.
No, this is good, too.
This is in our book, too.
The two tiny holes in JFK's cheek that had been plugged because they were leaking.
What caused that?
Yeah, you're so smart about it.
Those glass shards, glass.
I think Oliver Stone didn't really grasp the whole picture here.
- I love that.
- From the windshield. - How could they do the JFK revisit and not use as your proof that the magic bullet theory is anatomically- - I think Oliver Stone didn't really grasp the whole picture here. - I agree, I agree.
- He's a medical expert.
- But didn't he just leave it up to D'Eugenio?
I mean, even Oliver Stone couldn't miss that, David.
That's simple enough for a child.
We had a couple of shows where we went and, remember, there were so many other topics that could have been covered that were not.
There wasn't anything that we didn't know 30 years before that was brought up in his new Friday.
That I attribute to D'Eugenio.
I don't think Oliver Stone really was involved.
Here's your book.
Thank you, Jim.
This is very nice.
And it's now available in Kindle and hardcover.
Yeah, it's wonderful, David.
And at a very reasonable price, by the way.
For a 500-plus page paperback for $23.99, that's excellent, David.
$23.99.
That's excellent, David.
Over 500 pages.
Go back to the previous, the one with the arrows.
No, no.
There you go, there you go.
Now, that's the one I wanted.
Yeah, maybe we can finish with this one.
Okay.
Any sequence, any type of sequence here?
Well, I think the occipital shot, the shot from the rear, probably came first.
And then we can debate about the two frontal shots, which came first.
That's a tricky question, and I don't have any definite position on it.
I think a few people do, but I'm not sure that we really know.
Could they have been simultaneous?
Well, they were very close, I think.
That's the problem.
And that's the one, the green is the one that creates the flap.
Yeah, that creates the temple flap that we see in the autopsy photograph, and of course the bullet that caused that is the same bullet that blew out the back of the head and caused the big hole.
So that's not a direct hit?
No, the green arrow is a direct hit.
The bullet went through the skull and blew out the back of the head.
And the red?
The red produced the metallic trail we see on the x-rays today.
Okay.
Ah.
The red produced the metallic trail, but it was the green that caused both a flap and a blowout at the back of the head.
Yes, both.
Both?
Both the temple plaque that was observed at the autopsy and also by Daily Plus.
Oh, so the green is the temple?
Yeah, that's the temple area.
It also caused damage to the bone inside the skull.
That's extensively in our book.
The diagnostic radiologist hired by the government missed that wound, but Mike Chesser picked it up.
Objective evidence of that shot, not just... Well, the green was the curb, sewer curb, wasn't it, shot?
The green one?
Well, I think we can disagree about that.
I don't really know for sure where that temple shot came from.
So you can argue for the sewer, you can argue for the site on the overpass, where there's another sewer that you can call through.
Right, right.
I'm open-minded about that.
That's not a big deal to me.
But we know from the x-rays and the photographs and the witnesses that there had to be a shot that went in the green arrow.
So, of the green and the red, which from the Quintin Xun photograph or drawing, which one is that?
Try that again.
Whose photograph?
From the Quintin Xun.
Oh, Quintin Xun.
No, that would be the red arrow.
The red arrow.
Okay.
And of course we got Malcolm Barrett.
He obviously saw that red arrow.
That's what he's pointing at.
And so did Charles Crenshaw, the physician who was there in Parkland.
Yeah, that's the red arrow.
Leave that one up for a little while.
This one?
The one before that.
Oh, we rolled back there.
You must mean this?
Yeah, the one where they're all showing where the blowout was.
Yeah, that was the green arrow.
That's from the green arrow.
Right.
Very interesting.
Very interesting.
Now, the last thing I wanted to mention here.
Now, looking at the Z film, and you've got frame 312, 311, 312, where JFK's head is tilted at a specific angle, 60 degrees.
Okay.
Uh, if anything that would hit him in the head at that point would, you know, in my view would have to come from a lower angle.
Uh, like Kellerman said, an upshot into the vehicle.
Uh, and Dr. Mantic just said that, hey, it could be, uh, it could be, or there's another one down the road, down the way, which is true.
Uh, it could have been that one.
I agree a hundred percent.
In fact, I'm going to look up, uh, the plans, you know, that I have, And plot something from there.
Now, the tilt of the head, I think, is very, very important.
Exactly.
And you've got 312, 311, and it's very specific.
Tilt towards the front, forward, and I've measured it out.
It's a 60 degree tilt.
Now, that would place that shot, as far as I'm concerned, from a lower plane.
Uh, to traverse the area and come out the back of the head, uh, the way that we have been talking about here tonight.
Meaning you think that came from the curbside Subaru, but.
Absolutely.
And I'm not, uh, it's not just me.
There's many, many, many, many, many before me, uh, Penn Jones, Jim Garrison, Vincent Solandria, John judge, uh, Tim, uh, Tom Wilson, the guy that did the, uh, remember the men who killed Kennedy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So.
But hey, and the blender model, you know, and everything else.
Yeah, just anything you hear worthy.
There's a distribution of metallic particles you're talking about, David.
That's the red arrow.
That's the red arrow.
Very good.
It was just overall shooting sequence.
And yeah, the replication.
And of course, the Harper fragment.
David, David, how could the HSC think they could get away with reconstituting the head and not have not only a fist size, but the whole missing back of the head described in mathematical detail in Bethesda Autopsy Report?
How do they think they could get away with that?
Well, their expert didn't even know that the back of the head was missing.
You're kidding, Dave!
What kind of an expert?
No, he didn't know.
They didn't tell him that.
What kind of an expert is that?
Well, it was a misinformed expert.
It's easy to get away with things if you leave details like that out.
What troubles me, David, is that Cyril was on that panel.
I mean, why wouldn't... Cyril talked endlessly about the magic bullet, but he's never talked about the hole in the back of the head being covered up by the HSEA.
Cyril isn't that good at reading x-rays, I think he would admit that.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, fascinating.
You mean he might have been duped himself by this report?
I think he was partially duped, yes.
And I don't blame him for it.
That was not his expertise.
But David, this is after six seconds has been out.
He knows the diagrams.
He knows there was a big hole in the back of the head.
That just bothers me tremendously, let me say.
I'll leave it at that, but it troubles me.
And here then we get this variation.
To me, this is as damning as it gets.
And as you know, when Larry Sabato came out with nonsense at UVA, because I taught there, I actually published in the Daily Cavalier this image and took him to task.
And there we see the skull plaque, you know, well shown in the diagram.
Yeah.
And here's that Newsweek where they got the limo further down.
Not here, but down here.
30 feet after the supposed headshot in the... What a shot, man.
This guy was a good shot.
Yeah.
I don't like when Jim and Jesse Ventura went to test that out, you know.
Remember, Jim?
Yes.
Shooting from the rig, that platform, you know, and running that.
Out in Ventura County.
Yeah.
That was so much fun.
What happened?
One hit and three repetitions with an immobile target because it was three bales of hay.
And here you have that above ground, Larry, and you say this was.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the one above.
And see, that's right at the end of the triple overpass.
It's got that cement railing, see?
And then from there, the rest is picket fence.
And if you see, there's some images That show that area has been white blacked out or white it out.
You know, I saw a picture that Richard Hook showed me 1 time.
I think I have it somewhere that the 1st, maybe.
4 or 5 feet were left of the cement.
Abutment there, going to the left, that was altered, taken out of that image.
And you could go into there, and I think you have the next one that shows him inside of there.
I just don't have it here in this set.
And Garrison, those are Garrison's investigators.
Those are pictures from Garrison, so if you want to... They were doing good work!
Yeah, they were on the right track.
They were.
But the thing is, he would send people to Dallas and nobody would talk to them, of course.
Yeah.
And here's a shot from inside.
And then you have inside where the limit would look like across the street.
Yeah, look at all the space there that had already been, you know, filled up.
Already filled up.
Look at the levels of blacktop, you know?
Right.
Very interesting.
Wow.
Well, David, somehow it's all come together.
I think your books are going to have tremendous impact.
Selling hotcakes like that is just phenomenal, so I think this is going to represent a major breakthrough.
Yeah, it's overdue.
Our citizens should know what happened.
Having a more popular reader-friendly version was indispensable.
So how do we get an autographed copy, Dr. Matthew?
Well, that's very easy.
You send me a book plate, which is just a simple piece of paper.
I will sign it and you stick it inside the book.
How about that?
How about that?
What if I buy the book and send it to you and you send it back?
You can do that too.
It's just more tedious for you.
Okay.
Larry, further questions for David?
Oh, it's been a fantastic evening, gentlemen.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for inviting me.
It's been an honor.
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
Everyone there, Gary and Larry.
You and Jerry are going to be making quite a few rounds, I predict.
Well, let's hope so.
It would be good for the country.
We don't need this personally, but I think the country does.
Yes.
I couldn't agree more.
Gary?
Yeah, I guess we'll call it on that.
Our hourglass is gone, and we've got another show in the bag.
This has been a new JFK Show.
Thank you, gentlemen.
We'll see you next week.
Dr. Mantic, Larry Rivera, Jim Fetzer, and myself, Gary King.
Thanks for joining us.
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