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Dec. 1, 2023 - Jim Fetzer
01:22:13
The New JFK Show# 291 with Ole Dammegard & Robert Morningstar
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All right, everyone.
Welcome to the new JFK Show number 291.
We've got some big time guests.
We've got Robert Morningstar and Oli Dommegaard, people that I have very, very much respect for.
We're going to talk about a lot of things as far as JFK goes tonight.
And we're also going to talk about Oli's new film with James Files.
So there may be a little disagreement, but there's too much respect here for everyone for it to get out of hand.
And I agree with that now.
Jim, did you want me to play the moment of silence thing?
You said you wanted to do that, but you wanted to wait for that.
Do you have the Grodin sequel?
I don't have the sequel.
I just have what I said at Dealey Plaza last week, you know?
Go ahead, Gary.
I'm sure Ollie and Robert would appreciate your comments.
Okay, this is me.
Um, last week I was invited to speak and I was right ahead of, um, you-know-who Robert Grodin and, uh, let me clear out here.
So I'm gonna play my little clip.
It's only audio and see what y'all think.
If I'm, if I'm hitting it right or am I hitting it wrong?
Okay, here we go.
This is me last week.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to bring up our next speaker, who just came to us at the last minute.
His name is Gary King, and he's with the New JFK Show.
So ladies and gentlemen, Gary.
Yeah, all right.
All right, yeah, with Jim Thatcher, Larry Rivera, the top JFK researcher.
All right, I'm gonna maybe blow y'all away.
Don't throw too many things at me.
I have a little cold, so I'm not really speaking that well.
Before JFK took office, well, after he took office, he had some very deep concerns.
Number one, Vietnam.
Also racial issues, civil rights, but none more than the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
About 2017, a bunch of documents were released, so you can look them up on your phone.
And this is a letter from John Kennedy to the Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben-Gurion.
This telegram is from the Department of State to the Embassy in Israel transmitting the text of a letter from President Kennedy to Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion on arraignment to visit Dimona.
If you're not sure what Dimona is, it was their nuclear weapons facility and they promised that there would be no nuclear weapons building.
However, it would be for peaceful purposes only.
All right, so here's the letter from John Kennedy.
Dear Prime Minister, I welcome you, this letter of May 12th.
I'm giving a careful study.
Meanwhile, I have received from Ambassador Barber a report of this conversation with you on May 14th regarding the arrangements in visiting the Domona reactor.
So what they were doing, they were sending inspectors every six months, and this had been happening from the time that Kennedy got in office.
Just like they do in Iran now, they go in and make sure that you're not building nuclear bombs.
I'm sure you will agree that there's no more urgent business for the whole world than the control of nuclear weapons.
We both recognize this and we talked together two years ago and I emphasize it again when I met with Ms.
Gold in my ear just after Christmas.
The dangers in the proliferation of nuclear weapons systems are so obvious I'm not sure we need to repeat them here.
It's because of our preoccupation with this problem that our government has sought to arrange with you periodic visits to Dimona.
When we spoke together in May of 61, that's how far it goes back, you said you might take whatever use you wish from the information resulting in the first visit by our American scientists, visits, or inspections to Dimona.
And you would agree to further visits by neutrals as well?
I assume that Mr. Maier's comment that there would be no problem with this between us.
We're concerned with the disturbing effects on world stability which would accompany the development of nuclear weapons capability by Israel.
I cannot imagine that the Arabs would refrain from turning to the Soviet Union and for the assistance if Israel were to develop nuclear weapons capability.
With all the consequences this would hold, But the problem is much larger and its impact on the Middle East.
Development of nuclear weapons capability by Israel would almost certainly lead to other larger countries that have so far refrained from such development to feel that they must follow suit.
In other words, you get the bomb, everyone else is going to feel compelled to get it themselves.
As I made clear in my press conference May 8th, we have a deep commitment to the security of Israel.
In addition to this country, we support Israel in a wide variety of other ways which are well known to both of us.
The next four lines were redacted.
They're still not unclassified.
I can well appreciate your concern for developments by the United Arab Republic, but I see no present or imminent nuclear threat to Israel from there.
I'm assured that our intelligence on this question is good, and that the Egyptians do not presently have any installation comparable to Dimona, or any facilities potential capable of nuclear weapons production, and we have the capacity to check it.
I trust this message will convey the sense of urgency on the perspective of nuclear weapons.
The day they killed him, that day is when the Dimona visits halted.
We began to send military aid to Israel.
There's something called USS Liberty, which Lyndon Johnson was completely complicit in having Israel bomb, shoot, send torpedoes to the USS Liberty.
Now, by some miracle, this ship did not sink, and one of the men Who had a radio being repaired downstairs because they had already knocked out the communication.
Threw a wire up.
It got out that Israel was trying to sink the ship as a pretext to nuke Egypt.
So Lyndon Johnson pulled back our own Air Force and said, I want that ship going to the damn bottom of the oceans.
We will not embarrass our allies.
So let's fast forward to today.
I've been on this, I've been to conferences, and everyone always says the same thing.
Make no mistake, it was a coup d'etat.
Well, what does that mean?
That means that someone took over the country.
Was it Cuba?
No.
Was it Russia?
Was it the mob?
We're going to fast forward to today.
Right now, one-third of our entire Senate and a large portion of the Congress are actually dual Israeli American citizens.
So if you're not an Israeli citizen and you're a congressman or a senator then you must sign the oath to Israel and it clearly states All legislation coming forth on my desk, I will take Israel's concern over the United States.
So just go watch the news and see who's getting the billions of dollars.
I've been wanting to say this for so long, cost me a bunch of money to come here to say this, and thank you for listening.
Mr. Jones has been very controversial, and frankly, I want to honor Kennedy here with his idea that he wanted peace.
Okay, that was Judith Baker coming out saying that, I know all this is controversial, I just want you to know that JFK wanted peace.
So, there you go.
JFK wanted peace.
Yeah, well done Gary, well done.
Well, Uli and Robert, you know, discovering you are both fans or supporters of James Files, I was very keen to have a conversation with you because about two years ago, I invited Files and his wife Pamela here to Madison.
We had dinner at the Longhorn Steakhouse, and I liked the guy tremendously.
I just hit it off.
Uli, I liked the guy personally.
And he had very interesting things to say.
He's obviously a very serious guy.
I have no doubt that he had a role in the mob.
I have no doubt that he's taken out some important people.
The question becomes whether he played the role he asserts to have played on the grassy Nola on 22 November 1963.
Now, one of the points he made, and he made it twice during our conversation, stuck in my mind.
He said, Once the government stakes out a position, it's stuck with it.
It will never change.
And that got me thinking about how he'd not said it once, he'd said it twice, and that we see that in relation to JFK, no matter what evidence we produce, they don't change.
9-11, even though half a dozen or more of the hijackers turned up alive and well, they never change.
And it occurred to me That it might be that James was playing a role specified by the House Committee when it reinvestigated the crime and, of course, concluded there was or may have been a second shooter on the grassy knoll based upon the acoustical record, of course.
Turns out that I spoke with an expert on this And so when they laid out their array of microphones, they could have picked up shots from any other location.
And he explained to me, no, that it was only in the vicinity of the Book Depository, in the vicinity of the Grassy Knoll, and they were not set up to pick up any other shots.
And it seems to me, watching Oli's interview and Files lay out his case, and we came to the point of saying that limousine never stopped.
That was, for me, a major tell.
I mean, look, I was first asked about Files, oh my goodness, 20 years ago, when the confession of an assassin came out.
Oli, you remember the videotape?
I was asked by two local State TV stations my assessment I told him I gave him a 80% credibility or truth rating that 80% of what he said about the assassination I thought was correct but that the other 20% discounted him and I just wanted to talk with the two of you about files
And Gary's been doing a review about key aspects of the case and why you find him convincing, because I'm a skeptic.
I actually concluded he was playing a role that was, you know, scripted to be the second gunman.
So you get a conspiracy, you get two or more shooters.
But it doesn't draw in the government, Lyndon Johnson, CIA, mob, whatever.
Well, the mob, yeah, but I mean other parties that appear to me to have played major roles here.
So you can have Lee Oswald being a shooter, but it was supplemented.
Oleg, what have you found most convincing about Files?
What persuades you to think that what he's saying is the truth?
You're muted.
Yeah you're muted.
The first time I've heard of him I think was in the late 90s when this started coming forward and for me it was very like whoa this is this weird gun the fireball and all of that.
It didn't really sound true to me.
Then I must say the more I looked into it also via Jim Morris who was interviewing him I was also approached by Wim Dankbar when I was on tour in Holland, who was part of this whole thing, I think, in the beginning of it.
And the more I started looking into it, the more interested I became.
Also because as you know Jim my view is sort of like globally I'm into assassinations all over the place false flag operations all over the place and so Jimmy Files was not a new name for me it was like I he was there when Che Guevara was taken out where you had Felix Rodriguez who was the guy who shot him and David Morales was also there both all three of them were part of operation 40 or group 40
And they were there on behalf of the CIA with with George Bush senior in the background, taking him out.
He was also the one that delivered the explosives when they blew up Orlando Lettier in Washington DC on Embassy Row, where you had other people also part of Operation 40 plus Michael Vernon Townley.
That was the one that blew him up.
Then you have When Salvador Allende in Chile on 9-11-73 was suicided in this coup d'etat by the CIA down in Chile, he was also present.
And so this guy was already in the background in very strategic positions where I was like, this is okay.
And now he says he's over here.
So, the more I learned about him, and I mean, I have been following his footsteps for many years, I've been, when I went to Dallas, I went to the Lamplighter Motel, I left every single step, I was following his track, trying to see Is it true?
Is it not true?
And so and when I've learned, the more I learn about him is that he was born into a program of assassins.
His mother was poor and signed up for this like super soldier program to be inseminated in Mobile, Alabama in 41, I think it was.
And so he was born without a father.
He was born from a test tube.
I think some Aryan type soldier maybe donated and Files was born.
Officially the paper said he died at two months old or something like that and so from then on his name was Sudden at the time.
He disappears, he's not there, he's more or less like a number in this program.
And then when he's about, he's brought up by these Navy doctors, exactly like we're here with Operation Paperclip and these, you know, the former SIS people and all kinds of bizarre medics that are involved in these operations, just like Clyde Forshaw, Walter Tobinsky was also raised as assassins.
These two other people that I truly believe was involved in the assassination as well.
And from a very very early age and so Jimmy was from day one part of this program and then when he was 17 he signed up for the army he became part of the 82nd Airborne he was sent to Laos where he was working under Fletcher Prouty under Fletcher Prouty like but as a young man and then he got himself he had 18 confirmed kills before he even turned 18 and then he was
He got himself in a difficult situation because he executed two of his own people in a very tricky situation, but he did that and that got him sent back to the U.S.
where he was going to face court-martial and that whole thing.
But then on the recommendation of Ted Shackley, who's another very, very important guy in this area as well, he recommended David Atlee Phillips to sign on, get Jim's files off the hook and sign him up like more or less full time for the CA.
So David Adly Phillips went there to the hospital where he was held and cleared him from all charges, all of that with these two Bizarre executions.
And from then on, he was signed to the CIA with David Atlee Phillips as his handler or controller, just like Lee Oswald, same controller, same handler.
But at the same time, He went back to Chicago and he was headhunted by Chuckie Nicoletti, who was one of the head hitmen for Sam Giancarna under Tony Accardo.
And so because he was a really, really good driver, he was a stock car driver and he was an excellent, excellent shot being trained by these forces from early, early age.
So he became like part-time working for the Chicago Mob directly under Giancana and Chucky Nicoletti and at the same time he phoned in every single day to David Atlee Phillips to whenever was needed he had his bag ready and he was sent abroad for missions.
His His whole life has been death.
He's not there to persuade anyone.
He's not there to do anything.
He is there to crack heads and kill people.
That's his work.
He was involved in many, many different things.
And then he was asked to help Chuckie Nicoletti.
Oh, Chuckie Nicoletti approached him in 63 and at the Harlequin in Chicago said, can you please be the getaway car driver and the weapons bringer down to Dallas?
So that was his task.
He was not recruited as a shooter, nothing like that.
So he did that.
He went down there.
He came to Dallas and I must say if you make stories up then it's I would say then this you need to be very switched on in a in a such a complex case as JFK to keep track of the details and everything and and why on earth would you bring Lee Harvey Oswald into your story because he that would be the most difficult individual to get into this whole jigsaw but he says he spent five days with with
With Lee, where Lee were helping him learn the whole setup of Dallas, the getaway way, you know, how to get out of the town, one-way streets, when the trains, trackings, times and everything, so that he could be prepared.
Also they went out and James was test firing and calibrating the different weapons for the whole thing.
They never spoke of Kennedy, just like these operatives, never ever a single word is spoken about what they're going to do and what they're not going to do after it's done, neither.
They never discuss anything.
So this is the interesting thing, I think, with people in the operation, they have no clue of the bigger picture whatsoever.
And so Also the way that the whole setup, the way everything that he says is so unlogically to make up a story like that because it would be so easy to just boom boom boom boom story down.
But I checked out everything he said as far as I know has been correct.
I've never been able to catch him with a lie.
And so he was working also with the exiled Cubans.
He was part of recruiting.
He was the second one being recruited by George Bush Sr.
into Operation 40 together with Luis Posada Carillas.
These were the two first.
Gordon Ferry was also part of this group.
You had Frank Sturgis, you had Marita Lawrence, you had So many David Morales, Felix Rodriguez, all of these heavy, heavy, heavyweights.
He was working with them from a very early age.
And so he was at Lake Pontchartrain training them.
He was down in Florida.
He was also part of Smuggling guns down to Papa Doc and Baby Doc, where Lee Oswald, that was the first time he met Lee Oswald.
So they met, they just knew each other sort of like very, not close at all.
And he knew David Fairey, he knew I mean, he knows all of them.
Johnny Roselli was one of these guys that he he did regular jobs with.
He met or he didn't meet Jack Ruby on the morning of the assassination.
Johnny Roselli asked him to drive him to Fort Worth where he where Johnny Roselli met up with Jack Ruby.
I mean, he had no Jimmy had no idea who Jack Ruby was.
He just was there as a bodyguard.
And so there was this Envelope chaining hands were in it with CIA badges that with the correct coloring and a map of the route and with the change in front of the Dallas Texas Texas School Book Depository.
And then Just in the in the very morning when it stopped raining, Gianni Rosselli backed out as a shooter and instead Chucky Nicoletti said would you mind becoming a like a backup shooter and Jimmy adored Chucky absolutely adored him so he said it would be my absolute honor And he said taking out Kennedy was like taking out the trash.
He couldn't care less.
He was not interested in Kennedy.
He strongly disliked him after the Bay of Pigs.
He was just like, for him, death was nothing.
I mean, he didn't even get a pulse doing the shooting.
And so Also, if it's okay if I ramble on a little bit.
Please, I like this.
Okay, so if you look at what people saw that day, you had like Lee Bowers in the tower at the train station.
He saw two people down there who was walking around, there were two, there were different cars driving around.
We've been able to identify these cars.
And one of the cars, a black car that was driving around with a guy with a microphone in it.
That's Aldo Vera Serafin, who was later the guy that gave up Jimmy Files name to the FBI in 64.
Then you have the there's another car driving around that is later part of where where Clyde Forshaw is standing backing up next to the badge man and then we have Jimmy Files but Lee Bowers saw that there were two people standing there the sort of like five ten minutes or so before the shooting.
Yeah exactly.
And that has later turned out to be General Edward Lansdale, who was the ground coordinator, and Jimmy Files.
So Jimmy Files says that he was approached by Lansdale.
He didn't know he was there.
I mean, Jimmy knows nothing about this whole thing.
The bigger picture, he has no clue.
He thinks that he was the only one there, even though he says that there was a lot of familiar faces in the crowd.
He recognized Frank Sturges.
He saw Orlando Bosch.
He saw Aldo Vera Serafin, George Bush, he met him right after the shooting occurred, Gianni Rosselli and And Chuckie Nicoletti, he dropped off so they went into the back door through into the Daltex building where I believe George Bush were as well when the shots were fired and then went up, leaned up against the Texas School Book Depository afterward.
But the the guy that opened the back door was an LA mobster that had come over with that specific task to to make sure that nobody entered while this whole thing Occurred Hale Braden was his guy.
So he and they were staying at the Cabana Motor Hotel.
Not Jimmy, he was staying at the Lamplighter Motel.
But anyway, so He was seeing all of these, Gary Hemmings was there, he saw, I've been asking him specific about different people that he saw that day on location, these two brothers, the Noah brothers were there in the crowd and in different areas and so when, I mean everything
For me, except for did the limo stop or not stop?
I mean, how are we supposed to know that with a Zapruder move that has been completely manipulated?
I mean, and some people talk about six seconds complete stop.
I mean, that is forever.
Six seconds is an eternity in a situation like that.
Whatever, but as soon as Jimmy fired the shot, and it's that shot that messed everything up for the JFK assassination, coming from the wrong direction.
It was that exact shot that got me started more or less on this date 43 years ago, because it was so obvious that it came from the wrong direction.
And also with the ammo that made his whole head explode, meaning that that's where all of the problems, where they had to steal the body of JFK, they had multiple different autopsies trying to fix that, they dumped the brain, they dumped the body, they all of these things, the cover, cover, cover up, was because of that specific shot.
And I believe that there were multiple shooters but very limited shots fired.
Like, I think, I'm speculating, I believe that the three shooters that were on Grassy Knoll, that area, I believe these were Clyde Forshaw right by the car, we had Batchman, Lucien Sachty, and then you had Jimmy Files behind the picket fence by the tree.
All of these were backup shooters because the order was We're going for a headshot.
It has to be a headshot to make sure that Kennedy died.
But it also has to come from the Texas School Book Depository, because we're going to blame this poor guy up there, this patsy that has nothing to do with it.
So we cannot have shots coming from all over a different direction, because it's going to be a mess.
So I believe that there were three people Up on the sixth floor there to get attention so that people would say, oh, I saw him.
I saw him.
I believe these people up there with Eladio Del Valle, Ermino Diaz Garcia and Richard Kane.
Some people say Malcolm Wallace, the henchman of Lyndon Johnson.
But he was not a good shot with a rifle.
He was a messy killer.
He got the job done.
I mean, Eight months for Johnson, but he was not the right person.
The fingerprint up there that was found on a cardboard box, I think that was put there to have leverage against Lyndon Johnson.
Should he ever do anything, they could just point that fingerprint out, connect it to Johnson and use it as blackmail.
So I think that was why that was left there.
But the guy that was up there was Richard Kane, who was a hitman from Chicago, also police officer, former police officer.
And I believe that the way that they got down from the sixth floor was through abseiling down through the shaft of the elevator.
That was why the electricity would cut off one minute before the shooting started.
And then you see three people come out on the backside of the Texas School Book Depository.
Two gets into a car.
I believe that was David Morales who was driving Ruth Payne's station car.
They got in and took off on Euston and Richard Caine ran down back Euston Street.
People were shouting, get the killer, get the killer, you know, and then he turned around and he managed to get away, turn around the corner and ran back to the Adolphus Hotel where he was sharing room with Sam Giancarna, which I got confirmation that they were there at the day.
But anyway, so Jimmy Files fired the shot and when you have you have for instance the witness Ed Hoffman this deaf guy who was standing on the other side of the triple underpass and he saw he was looking from a different angle than most others and he saw right at the time when the motorcade came he saw like somebody boom he saw a puff of smoke and he saw that somebody
Turned around with a rifle, went over, threw it to somebody dressed like a railroad worker.
The railroad worker, and then turned around, put on his hat and slowly walked off.
And then the railroad worker went over to like this electrical whatever cabinet.
Didn't he disassemble the weapon and put it in a toolbox?
Exactly.
Disassembled it, put it in a toolbox, and then walked across the railroad tracks towards the train, the boxcar, where we had Chauncey Halt, we had the three tramps arrested in that one.
These ones were... Rogers, yeah.
Harrelson and Charles Frederick Rodgers.
And so I think that very possibly that this railroad worker was one of the three, not Chauncey, but one of either Harrelson or Carlos Montoya or Charles Frederick Rodgers that just changed clothes inside the boxcar because this was standard procedure, you know, disguise and clothing, all of these were to change that was part of these operations.
Anyway, so what I think what Ed Hoffman saw was a mix of two stories.
And I think that you had Clyde by the car, then you had Badgeman, Lucien Satie in a Dallas police uniform, and then you have Jimmy Files behind the picket fence.
So what I believe happened, we had What's his name?
Arnold.
Gordon Arnold.
There was a young soldier who was standing right in front of files when the shots were fired.
It went right over his head.
And so he just jumped down like that.
And when he looked up, there was this man in a police uniform with a big gun pointing at his face.
Did you film did you and grabbed his camera pulled out the film and Gordon and Anna was just like oh my god oh my god like this.
I believe that was Lucien Satie that right after the shot I don't think he fired I don't think Clyde fired it was Jimmy Files because they were told Do not, do not fire if it's not, you know, in the very last second.
So I think Lucien Sartre went over there and you have this photo of Batchman as well, where he next to him is this railroad worker.
Yeah, so I think Shot fired.
Railroad worker goes on the other side of the picket fence.
Lucien Sartre rips out the film, goes over, throws the gun, the rifle, to let's say that it was Charles Frederick Rodgers who goes and breaks down the gun.
Lucien Sartre returns and is part of the two people that are pushing back the crowd.
One of them showing Secret Service ID, I think that was Bernard Baker, one of the world's biggest burglars, also part of Operation 40.
I got that confirmed that he was the one.
And Jimmy Files at the very same time, he fires us up, boom, he goes down behind the picket fence, he changed his jacket inside out, he puts the fireball in a briefcase, he stands up, put on the hat, that's what Ed Hoffman sees, he sees this commotion, I think he sees Lucien Safty throw the rifle, and then mistakes the two Jimmy Files and Lucien Satie.
There's a mix up there because it's like this you know like and so he sees Jimmy Files put on the hat just like Jimmy says and walks towards this Texas School Book Depository while the train, this railroad worker goes towards the boxcar and Lucien Satie turns to back down on the grassy knoll as a police officer stopping people to get access there.
So, then Jimmy says that he walked in front of the Texas School Book Depository, he had a .45 in his pocket, he had a hand grenade and the fireball, so he was prepared for anyone, you know, to take out anyone, and then he was observed by one woman also, he passes George Bush Senior who's now come out of the Daltex who's like pretending just to stand and have a smoke more or less up against the wall.
He passes that he has his the Chevy Impala on the other side parked on the Daltex side where Nicoletti and Rosselli in the back has already come out.
He just gets in the car and they take off Houston, go north and take a left a bit up there, further up, and then a little bit further down the road Nicoletti and Rosselli is dropped off at a gas station.
The only thing ever mentioned between them is where Chucky says, I think maybe you got a bit carried away there, meaning Should you really have fired and Jimmy said you told me you know so he waited to the very last second and then fired the shot but because of and I just want to mention also that
After this happened, he went straight back to the Lamplighter Motel.
He met up, suddenly somebody knocked on the door.
It was Gary Marlow, the guy that he claims killed Tippett.
I can go into details why that happened.
And then after that, Jimmy just gets into the car when everything calms down and drives back to To Chicago with the weapons they've given back.
The fireball had been used in two other assassinations before abroad.
The weapons are given back.
Nicoletti used a Marlin or a Mauser 30-06.
Caliber and just gives him back to the Wolfman in Chicago and then within a week he's in Southeast Asia he's been sent on a mission boom so he's out and then Jimmy says that the following year 64 he has very few memories he has photos of him like being at a wedding he was best man for Gary Marlow and stuff like he says I can't remember anything I can only remember going to these different
naval bases and stuff where they had he said I was put with headphones there were these very low frequencies so I mean this guy completely in the MKUltra program from day one as a child so no wonder because the only thing that gets to me is like how did how can he not remember Lucien Sarty Or whoever Badgeman is, you can see him on photos.
How can he not see this?
How can he not?
He remembers only the very specific things.
And I think he was of such value for the CIA because he was extremely efficient when it came to killing people, so they kept him.
Otherwise, most of the other people have been taken out.
And so, I, since he has such knowledge from the inside of so many operations, so many assassinations around the world, so many coup d'etats, so many, I think it's a major mistake not to listen to him.
Because I find him, I find him and Judith Barry Baker extremely important jigsaw puzzle.
Are they easy people?
I don't know.
I mean, sometimes we have problems, you know, like, and people have in this area, everybody thinks they're right.
The only thing that matters to me is like, let's see if we can get this jigsaw puzzle put together once and for all.
Because the powers that took him out that day in 63 kept going and are still going.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
Oli, that was fascinating.
I'm gonna miss that for the world.
Absolutely sensational.
And that's one of the reasons I wanted to bring us together to talk about sorting out this key thing.
I gotta call you back doing an interview.
I'll call you back.
Happens to me all the time.
All together, given files, how many actual shooters fired?
Where were they positioned?
And what were the effects of their shots, Oli?
No, Jimmy only knows Chucky and himself.
And I ask you, in an operation that well prepared by the CIA, by all of these different forces, would they rely on Chucky Nicoletti, who's not a good rifle shooter, on a moving target?
Would they have one shooter?
I think not.
There were multiple shooters.
How many?
I think we're still Trying to figure out how many there were because I think there were multiple shooters but only certain people fired.
Some had silencers on.
There were also we have at the very same second I think there were three shots that hit Kennedy in the head more or less at the same time.
Jimmy says that he was hit from behind right the second because Jimmy was zooming in on the right eye and just before he fired, the head was thrown forward, so he hit him here.
But I believe also that there was somebody down in the storm drench in that manhole, very possibly Frank Sturgess, who was on location, Jimmy says.
He said he saw him in a green Bomber Jacket, but then he can't remember where he went.
I think, because also, I know you, if it's Jack, whatever his name was.
Jack Warren.
You have another name.
I think there was if you look at the the manhole on the other side it seems like possibly there was one there as well.
I mean this we're talking about the hit of the century they would not let him get away.
So it's like there's all of these different ones and if you also see how Jack Ruby had parked his car right on the other side of the Triple underpass where there is a manhole I checked it out exactly where his car was parked and where this police officer the minutes after the shooting happened came and saw somebody throw something in the trunk jump in the car and take off and then started chasing him and turned out to be Jack Ruby that he was chasing so he backed off
I think very possibly that the shooter and that went in the tunnel underneath, got up right by Ruby's car, maybe underneath his car, I don't know, because it was parked up on the side, and then into the back seat and Ruby took off with maybe somebody lying in the back seat and getting away that way.
Where was Chucky according to Jimmy?
No, he was in the Daltex building.
Yeah, but we also have, in my opinion, Tony Izquierdo, who was there either as a second shooter or spotter, because you have this black guy who's leaning out of the window.
As far as I've been able to identify him, it's Tony Izquierdo.
There's even a statue of him in Miami, very closely connected to the Exile Cuban and the Operation 40 as well.
So, I cannot I can never ever think that the CIA would trust one shooter in a... You have triangular fire, that's standard procedure.
Very often in these teams you have one or two people, one spotter, one breakdown guy and the shooter himself.
So 3-3-3.
So there is this thing with one thing that Jimmy said that I found really interesting was that this abort team that was flown in by I think Tosh Plumley that was not that was an abort team but not to abort the whole operation they were there in case the assassination had failed and then the CIA could go in and say well we were the ones we came in with a team and we managed to stop it and thus become heroes.
Instead of trying to stop it.
A pseudo-abort team, a fake-abort team.
I love it only.
I love it.
But there's also one shot that is fired from somewhere.
I think it's on top of the county house or wherever.
There's one manhole where you can see that there's like a shot that has been fired right next to the manhole.
So either the shooter, whoever fired that shot, was a crap shooter, or maybe the manhole was open with somebody there and they fired a shot at them.
And it was like, and they disappeared that way.
And in that case, that could be part of the abort team, if that is true.
How many hits, Jack, do you ascribe?
I'm not sure.
I know that the first throat shot, we completely disagree on that one because I believe that that was Walter Tabinsky that fired.
Is it possible for me to just share screen and I'll show you what I'm talking about?
Okay, so Jim and I, we were in contact with this incredible witness called Hayley Otis some years ago, where you Jim, I mean you have more than 100 hours of telephone conversations with her that are just so detailed and so incredible.
And she grew up with these two people, Clyde Forshaw and Walter Dubinsky, who according to her had killed more than a thousand people each.
And I tell you, I would not be surprised if she was correct with all of it.
And she told us, it was the first time she mentioned this guy, that Walter Zbinski was bragging when coming home afterwards, was bragging about how he had fired with a special gun, like fired straight into the throat of Kennedy and making him immobile, what do you call it, immobilize him so that he couldn't move.
And so So that was the first time.
When she said that he claimed that, I was like, really?
And so if I can just show you what I believe.
Hayley put him right there on the grass, did she not?
She had Walter firing from right there in the open.
I mean, she would have Walter firing in the open.
And Walter also with the fake Oswald down in Mexico City in the photographs.
Yeah.
Can you please let me share a screen?
Yeah.
Make only host.
Make olejos!
All right, now.
Okay.
Go ahead, Oleg.
Okay, so this guy that the CIA took photos of outside the embassy in Mexico, they claimed were so this guy that the CIA took photos of outside the Hayley Otis claimed, no, this is Walter Dubinsky.
So this is Walter Dubinsky according to her.
Both him and Clyde were very good at disguises and all of these things.
And what she claimed that Walter Dubinsky, living in Toronto, dead or alive, I don't know.
But that he this day had dyed his hair blonde, and that he fired that shot, he had a big bulletproof vest on, and then he calmly walked across the street, took a bicycle from the Texas School Book Depository, and took off.
So when she said that, I was like, what?
That is, that is like, could that really be true?
And so I'll just show you here the Zapruder film.
Okay, so we have the Zapruder coming here.
And please look... Olli, why don't you slow it down?
You can go to settings.
Yeah, no, it's not that, but... If you look... There, boom!
Can you see out to the right there?
Let me just see if I can move you guys around.
Move away!
So...
Can you see my mouse?
Yes.
Walter is supposed to be here.
Is that right, Ole?
He's right there.
Sorry.
Can you see him there?
Those guys are floating?
But that's two people, right?
That's a woman in green.
Yeah.
No, it's a guy in a gray, shiny suit, which seems to be Orlando Bosch, also called Dr. Death.
With a radio in his pocket, right?
No, that was Jimmy Hicks.
So I believe it was Orlando Bosch.
But if you look here, the guy, he was in light khaki colored clothes.
And he has this bulletproof vest.
I'm just going to show you.
A photo of him when he walks.
This is when he walks across.
Can you see the bulletproof vest here?
Oh, yeah, very clearly.
That is not very discreet.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
And the photo... No, it's all so blatant, but that can be, you know, the most successful mode of deception.
Do it so blatantly, no one would even think twice about it.
But this is where he is.
Can you see him?
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
So this is right after the shooting when everybody else is running towards the shooting.
This is very often when people that are part of it, they take off.
So he says, told Haley that he just walked over to the Texas School Book Depository, got on his bicycle and took off.
So if you if I can get you back to the shooting itself.
Oh, oh, yeah.
Sorry.
Not a problem.
I'm sorry for this.
This is fine.
I'll move Buzz, by the way.
Okay, so here he comes in.
Can you see he's standing in a shooting stance?
Yeah.
And this is exactly where we see Kennedy lift his arms to his throat.
We're talking like eight, ten feet maximum.
It's so close.
And then as soon as he's fired his shot, he just let his arm go down, very relaxed.
Can you see in his right hand, also he's got some, can you see he's got some kind of, it looks like a weapon with a short barrel?
Yes, yes.
So he very relaxed, just let's go with it.
I'll show you another version where you can just see how he, um, where he, um, Oh, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up.
So here, here is where the gun is right to the right and boom, and then hands down.
Very relaxed.
But that doesn't go through the windshield, Oli.
No, no, no.
But who says that anything has been fired through the windshield?
People are trying to explain the throat here in the neck.
My suggestion is that the small little caliber thing that we're seeing there was fired by Walter Dubinsky.
Let me just stop sharing.
And that it hit him right in the throat.
And because the windshield, we've done test shooting with windshields, because if the windshield was absolutely like this, the shot will go straight through and then you can measure exactly, oh it came like this, boom.
But if it's slanted like it was on this limo, the angle changes when it passes through.
I agree.
Yeah, we tested that and it goes down, it goes down.
Plus it was three quarters of an inch thick.
So they may have hit, there is a mark.
For sure, there's marks there.
And there's glass inside the car.
But whatever that was, a bullet fraction or, I mean, we got all kinds of things flying around in that car that day.
So I believe what, so you said how many shooters?
I think there was in the Daltex building, or maybe on top of the county house, maybe one there.
There's, yeah, county records building.
Thank you.
There's also people that said that down near on a street level, more like that, that there's like a muscle flash, possibly one there.
Who knows?
There's one said to be on top of the Daltex building.
Who knows?
This is this Sam, this police officer, Sam Waters.
No, Weatherford.
Harry Weatherford.
He was on the top of the county records.
Yeah.
And possibly he was the guy, the one that fired and hit near the manhole.
That was the second shot.
Only the first hit Jack in the back.
Can I comment on this now?
Yeah, sure.
That is the greatest synopsis of James Files' role and his history that anyone could give, so I'm not going to go over that.
I will make one correction.
The package that Jack Ruby passed over was not CIA documents, it was Secret Service identification.
That's what I said.
There were Secret Service badges with the correct color and code.
Right, but you said CIA.
That Chauncey Marvin Holt had repaired.
Right.
Most probably, yeah.
And here's the other part of that story as long as you're talking about the Secret Service identity.
RFK Jr.
appeared on an interview two weeks ago and he said that he's a really good friend of Woody Harrelson's.
Woody Harrelson's father, obviously, was Charles Harrelson, who was one of the three triumphs.
And he said that he told him that Woody Harrelson's father, Charles Harrelson and Charles Rogers and those guys, were there to pretend to be Secret Service guys, to keep guys off the Grassy Knoll area, and that they didn't know that they were really planning to kill President Kennedy.
And so that when that happened, they took off And that RRFK Jr.
says he believes that story.
Now, I'll address your objections, Jim.
You said about your objections to Jim Files' account.
I spoke to James Files just three days before he, two days before he left for Dallas.
Now, that would have been a week before the assassination.
And I specifically asked him about the car.
And whether it stopped.
And what he said was, it never stopped.
It was rolling.
I said, how fast?
He said, one mile an hour.
He said, the reason I know is that I was tracking.
I was tracking the car and it never stopped moving until I took the shot.
But immediately after taking the shot, he didn't stand up there gawking.
He did two things that were really amazing.
And one of them is recording the History Channel series, The Men Who Killed Kennedy.
He says he got down, he ejected the shell, he took the shell, he bit it, and left it there.
That shell was found many years later, and it's recorded in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Investigators went there and they started grounding.
They found this shell that had been bitten.
So that's a plus for James Files.
I asked James Files, who was the man who was with him on the Dresden Mall?
And he said, yeah, it was Edward Lansdale, who was the overall on scene commander.
Now listen to this, Edward Lansdale, was a general in the United States Air Force.
He was involved in Operation White Star and later in the Phoenix program, that mass assassination program that the CIA ran in Vietnam.
Lansdale resigned from the United States Air Force on October 30th, 31st of 1963.
He was out of the United States Air Force for a month He was taken back into the United States Air Force at the end of the month.
Fletcher Prouty was the overall commander of Operation White Star.
This is the covert war in Laos and Cambodia prior to our going into Vietnam.
The role is very important.
Everybody said, you know, look, there's a pruder film is a total optical illusion.
If one person sees it, it's an optical illusion.
If many people see it, it's a mass hallucination.
It's the greatest example of mass mind control that the world has ever seen.
And you were there when I showed those cuts and how the Stoltz psychology was used to make it appear seamless.
That was my specialty at Fordham University.
I got my degree in psychology there.
So, let's talk about Phile's role in terms of a compartment of this assassination.
Robert, I'd like to respond to a couple of things you've said already, and then I'll come back.
I agree that Edward Lansdale positioned the shooters and determined the sequence of shots.
He and George Herbert Walker Bush were on the ground commanders, and we have Lansdale later reporting to Bush.
So we're all good on that.
It seems to me Jack had already been hit in the back.
He'd already been hit in the throat.
Now, whether Tobinsky, I believe it was in fact Jack Lawrence who was at the, you know, triple underpass.
The trajectory is perfect.
We have the hole in the windshield.
There's no way about it.
We got witnesses at Parkland, even a cop who stuck a pencil through it.
It was beveled on the inside.
We got the official at Ford who replaced it.
There was a hole in the windshield.
No argument.
If there's a hole in the windshield, then what the hell is the deal with Tobinsky, you know?
But here's more important.
It's been hit in the back.
It's non-fatal.
Five and a half inches below the collar.
Shallow shot.
Went in about as far as cyclone difficult.
That was to implant a Mannlicher Carcano bullet that had been fired from the same weapon that Tony Nestor Escadro had used by my account.
By Weatherford from the top, is it a .30-06 and a Sabo, a plastic collar?
It had to be a hand load to fire the Mandic or Carcano bullet, so it was very shallow.
Stop for a second.
Wait a minute, Robert.
No, please.
Let's go for 50 minutes.
A debate goes back and forth.
I mean, don't start to lecture, right?
We cannot believe everything we hear.
We know that the autopsy was doctored.
There's a very interesting thing that's mentioned in the autopsy.
They probed the wound and they said that the angle was from 60 degrees to 40 degrees.
That indicates to me two holes, two shots, or two indentations.
So he was shot in the back.
That's without a doubt.
John F. Kennedy stood up and said, oh my God, I've been shot.
And Zapruder saw him pop up.
That's why the film is cut at 207 to 12.
Those frames have been removed.
No argument.
The angle of Dubinsky, this is the first time that I've heard anyone analyze that, doesn't look right for the throat entry shot coming in from the front.
I'm in contact with three CIA agents who were involved in it.
I have the documents that were leaked by Robert Trumbull Crowley on his deathbed in 1999.
Robert Trumbull Crowley was the director of clandestine operations for the CIA.
I'm going to read to you the after action report.
On December 22nd, 1963, One month after the assassination of the President, there was a meeting at CIA, attended by the Director of the CIA, Robert Trumbull Crowley, William King Harvey, James Jesus Angleton, to assess the success of the assassination, of the execution of President Kennedy.
Now, in the aftermath of that, They went through 28 points.
I'm not going to read them all to you, but I'm going to say to you, I'm in contact with a CIA agent named Robert Clayton Buell.
He was the CIA agent in Mexico City and the handler along with quote unquote Morris Bishop, David Atlee Phillips.
He was recruited by David Atlee Phillips and E. Howard Hunt.
They were down there.
He told me that the third shot was shot by a third assassin from the Chicago mob.
That's why I wanted to talk about compartmentalization.
Jimmy Files believes that he and Charles Nicoletti were the only shooters.
He is totally oblivious of the presence of the Corsican Mafia.
Well, I'm going to say John Sutra.
This is a very important book.
Have you read it?
The Skorzeny Papers by Ralph Guenis.
The Skorzeny Papers deal... We lost your audio, Robert.
Otto Skorzeny was Hitler's top commando and he was recruited.
He's one of those paperclip Nazis along with Wernher von Braun and all of those.
But he wasn't brought here.
He was installed in Madrid to become the mastermind of political assassinations in Europe.
And he established an assassination network in Europe, as well as in the United States.
He was brought to the United States.
And on the day that Kennedy was killed, Artur Skrzeny was in Dallas and he was hunting with Byrd, the owner of the Texas School Book Depository.
So this is another aspect, the Corsican Mafia aspect, What was the name that all of you said, the policeman?
Lucien Sarti.
Right, yeah.
So, Lucien Sarti is one of these French assassins.
Jean Sutra is another one.
Then we have that Christian David who was in prison over there with the famous letter that would only be opened when he died.
So, this is another compartment.
Now, Robert Clayton Buick has written this book, Taking Out the Garbage.
That's what James Files says it felt like to him.
He hated Kennedy.
James Files was a mind-controlled assassin who was nurtured by the U.S.
military.
He was turned into a killing machine with no conscience, no emotions, This is part of trauma-based mind control.
He was taken at the age of eight years old from his mother, who had volunteered for this super soldier brooding program, actually super sailor because it was the U.S.
Navy that enlisted her.
And of all places, he was taken to Montauk, Long Island, Camp Hero, And trained there for 10 years.
And I said to James, well, what did you study?
He said, the most important thing was mathematics.
You have to be great at numbers because you need numbers for everything.
For directing artillery, for lining up shots, and anything else.
But then they taught us sharpshooting, knife throwing, bomb making.
And I said, my God, what this kid must have gone through between the age of eight And 18.
At 18, he joined the army, went into the 82nd Airborne.
He was an exemplary soldier, already trained for 10 years.
So he was sent to this covert war in Laos that was being directed by Fletcher Crowdy.
It's called Operation Mobile White Star.
And as Ali mentioned, he killed 18 guys in a year, so they brought him back.
And after they brought him back, he went through that ordeal, a court-martial, because he did kill two of his own men, to keep the secrets.
Then he was installed in the Chicago Mafia.
His name was not James Files until after the assassination.
He changed his name.
His name was James Earl Sutton.
This man was a killing machine.
Now, he did not know about these two other fellows.
He didn't know about Gary Marlowe, and he didn't know about another assassin, Marshall Kafanos, also from the Chicago Mafia, and he didn't know about Richard Kane.
And Ollie, you're the first person to mention Richard Kane, and let me tell you this.
About 20 years ago, Somebody collected all of the, uh, the film that was chopped up and cut and thrown away, uh, discarded by the media, ABC, CBS, NBC.
They all, everybody had cameras down there, but they only used little snippets of it for what they reported to us on television.
So this fellow collected all of these, uh, outtakes and he put them all together and a PBS special was run.
And I studied that PBS special and I found Richard Kane.
Richard Kane was stopped when he came out of the Texas School Book Depository.
Some cop in the window said, hey, stop that guy.
Stop that guy.
I want us to do this again.
I can't give you equal time tonight because I want to pose the strongest objection of file story that I can, okay?
Okay, then let me answer.
We have Jack hitting the back, fired by actually Harry Weatherford from the top.
By my account, he's hit in the throat by Jack Lawrence through the windshield.
He's not dead.
The umbrella man is pumping.
That means he's still alive.
Keep shooting.
We got the Cuban with a fist.
Greer holds a limo to a left and to a halt so severely everyone is jostled forward.
That's right, but that's after the shot.
Wait a minute.
I don't think it's after the shot.
Absolutely after the shot.
I'm telling you, I don't think it was.
Everything is clear.
Let me tell you, Robert, let me tell you why.
You got a little emotional here.
Come on, let's stay calm.
Remember, who's the person who exposed the document as a Bruder film, Jim?
You were in the audience when I did that.
So, we are equal, right?
You're not a professor lecturing to me in your classroom.
I'm not lecturing to you, I'm just explaining what I think.
You're just yelling.
You're just yelling.
Robert, come on, let me give my argument.
Okay, and then I'll give mine back.
Go ahead.
Jesus Christ!
I'm here!
Shut up!
The car is brought to a halt.
Then, and only then, he's hit in the back of the head.
He slumps forward.
Jackie is back up looking him right in the face when he's hit in the right temple.
That's a shot Files claims to have taken.
But he cannot have taken it according to his story because the limo Devin stopped.
It was a limo stop that set up his shot.
I've got six people who have seen the other film that is less edited and that shows exactly what I described.
We got Larry Revere have interviews with all four of the motorcycle escort officers and their supervisor.
They all confirmed the limo stopped.
Fargus got off his bike, ran between the limos up the grassy knoll.
Jackson motored up the grassy knoll in his bike until it fell over.
Five agents got out, surrounded the limo, took a chunk of skull from a little boy, threw it in the car.
We now believe one of them Glenn Bennett actually got in the car at that point in time.
Now, the point I'm making regarding files, he says the car never stopped, but it was the limo stop that set up his shot.
Therefore, if that had to be the case, then he's not speaking the truth.
I want Paulie and you to respond.
Okay.
He was aiming at the right eye, and he says that at that moment, The shot from Nicoletti, hit him in the back of the head, drove his head forward, and that's why his shot went in the temple.
That's when the whole thing gets blurry.
That is when Greer really stomped on the brakes and Files did not see the stop because he ducked down.
He bit the bullet after he ejected it.
He changed his head.
And I've got six witnesses who say the limo stopped by current first, and then Jack's hitting the back of the head, slops forward, eased up, and then he's hitting the head.
Six of them.
Simultaneous.
I say it's simultaneous.
I say it's simultaneous.
Can I just say that Files, after, for one thing, he didn't care about that operation at all.
So he didn't really try to memorize or whatever.
It's many, many years ago.
Also during 64, when his memory was being messed around with, For sure, if it's stopped or not stopped, what he remembers, I don't find that important.
It's very possible that you're completely right, that it's stopped, but that he doesn't remember, plus that he was so focused in the scope, firing the shot and then get out.
So he had no reason to remember or not remember.
Can I just put in one little thing that I found interesting when speaking to him, was that Since he claims that they had the same handler, he and Lee Oswald, his instructions from David Atlee Phillips was that if anything went wrong, he should go to the Texas Theater, just like Lee Oswald.
And in the Texas Theater, he would meet up with David Atlee Phillips and then send to the Redbird Airport.
and be taken transported out that way.
Exactly what I think that they were giving identical instructions but Jimmy managed to get out and Lee was left in the whole situation.
Where I also think that J.D.
Tippett as a female witness that sees that he was That Tippett was, what she said, controlling the traffic behind the Texas School Book Depository or directing traffic.
I think very possibly he was put there to take out, to suicide Lee or kill him on location.
Failed because Lee somehow got out.
Like Roger Craig sees him go come down the grassy knoll and jump into the station wagon and then take off.
Where we see that J.D.
Tippett, very nervous and very erratic behavior for the following hour or so, running up and down, stopping cars, checking back seats and whatever.
And then he runs into Gary Marlowe, where both of them are looking for Oswald.
It's important what you just said.
In the same set of films that I said I found Richard King, those eye tapes, car 10 is seen driving in to D&D Plaza with a shirt in the back, in the back window.
Now, back to Jim's objection.
It was simultaneous.
The stop came at the moment he took the shot and the physics proved it.
He was aiming for the right eye and the stop with the car stopped dead The body went forward and the shot hit him in the temple, simultaneously with the crisscross.
I believe three shots went through President Kennedy's head at that moment.
All of those shots have been doctored out.
And I got six witnesses who have seen an unedited or less edited, they call it the other film, that contradict your claim, Robert.
Six of them.
Some of them saw it three different times.
That was a stop.
Listen to me, Robert.
And Robert, I'm not lecturing you.
We're having a show.
I'm the host, okay?
I gotta decide who talks.
You can't do that.
Robert, you can't... We can't both be hosting this show, goddammit.
Give yourself a little credit, alright?
Now, the point is, I got six witnesses who've seen the other film, and they all confirmed there was a stop.
Then he's hit in the head, he thumped over his back, and then he's hit the right temple and something like that.
Six of them, some have seen the film three times, a film you have never seen.
So, I say, look, I think you're great.
Have you ever seen it?
Have you seen that film that you're talking about?
I personally know, but I know personally people have seen it.
Then it's just belief.
It's just hearsay.
Oh, Robert, don't pull that shit on me.
Goddamn honest.
Can I ask you, is that detail enough to disregard James Files' whole background, his whole network of connections, all of these things, just that detail on its own.
Let me say, Oli, I think what you have said is fascinating and especially, you know, that they tried to wipe his memory.
I think that makes good sense and it could be the case that that is the explanation.
I really just wanted to see if we could reason together to sort this out, because it's very important to me that I am a skeptic of Files, but the two of you are supportive, and I want to see if we can sort it out.
I think Oli did a masterful job of recounting, and Robert, of course, agrees.
And I mean, I would like to share with you my overview, and that we do this again if you're up for it.
But, I mean, it's just a question of would you, Robert, be willing to return for a second engagement?
I'm happy to do it.
Of course, yes.
Can I say that when I spoke to other assassins, they're often this, just before they hit, there's like a tunnel vision where they just zoom in, everything else disappears, they can't hear sounds, they're so focused in on the target.
And so coming from that zoomed in, completely focused killing zone, I think that you cannot ask that person about what was going on around them.
They would just focus on that point.
Ola, you've made a good as case for files as anyone could possibly make, and I want to thank you both for joining me tonight.
I'm not going to impose on you longer, but I'm thrilled with what we did today, notwithstanding any disagreements about managing the show.
That's OK.
That's forgivable.
Thank you.
Thank you both.
It was wonderful.
Gary, Gary, go ahead.
I didn't say anything yet.
All right.
OK.
Some of my issues is that James Files did remember everything.
And it seems like, first of all, talking about the cigarette butts that were put there and wiping his feet on the fence.
Well, that's something that Sam Holland has said.
All right.
It's amazing to me that he literally knew everyone.
You know, from Lansdale to Allie Phillips, Production Priority, George Bush, Frank Sturgis.
He even knew the Secret Service agent that went up there and paused everyone, okay?
He talks about the military stand down, you know, when they're leaving Love Field.
Well, you can't know that.
So a lot of stuff that he was talking about in the film was stuff that you would... Let me say this.
All the people that I've talked to that were really involved are not hardcore researchers, okay?
They don't know every little thing.
But Files knows every single little thing.
And also, when he said he was about to take a shot, he was counting shots.
He caught the, um, you know, when he hit the curb, he saw the grass popping up.
He's counting shots going left and right, but he's supposed to be focused in on that.
All right.
He knew Nicoletti, Rosselli, Sam Giaccona.
He knew Oswald.
It's just like, he's almost like who was at Ainsworth, who was just everywhere and knew everything.
And he was in on the plot to kill Castro.
He was, you know, it just seems like he was just, just knows a little too much.
Because like I said, all the people that were involved are not researchers like we are.
Okay, but this guy looks like a really, really good researcher and had a lot of time to research when he was in jail.
Go ahead, Oli.
I completely disagree with you because he knows very little.
The thing that he knows about the bigger picture is through his wife, Pamela, who's done a lot of research.
So, when I've done interviews with Files, I've had to correct him several times, you know, because he has no interest.
He hasn't even seen the JFK movie.
He fell asleep.
He has no interest in this whole thing.
He doesn't know the bigger picture.
But the people we're talking about is around Operation 40 that was so central in so many assassinations, so many coup d'etats, so many of these very closely following George Bush senior's career, his whole life, becoming the head of the CIA, becoming Porter Goss, who followed us in the CIA, very top level positions.
So this tiny, that's why it's so important to study this little group, because they're key to so, so, so much.
And Jimmy Files is on his way out.
Maybe he's not got another year or so.
He's willing to talk.
My God, it's a gold mine for us to learn from.
And then we can sort of, yeah, Was it this?
Was it that?
I mean, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast yesterday.
So, to go into extreme details like that, well, he had coconuts instead of cereals.
Like, Judy said that no, V would never order that for breakfast.
It's like, it was 63.
I mean, my God, give a little slack, you know, so.
Can I make a closing comment?
The important thing, about James Files testimony is that it confirms that the CIA and the Chicago Mafia, that the CIA organized the assassination of President Kennedy and the details of Operation Zipper I'm going to give you right now.
There was a an unconstitutional what I call kangaroo court-martial Held by the CIA, the Department of Defense, the FBI, and high members of the Secret Service.
They claimed that President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy had committed high treason when they stopped the invasion of Cuba and Kennedy forced all the air support for the Bay of Pigs.
They furthermore found out that Robert Kennedy and President Kennedy We're conducting back-channel communications with Khrushchev, Nikita Khrushchev, Premier Khrushchev in the Soviet Union.
They found out that the Soviet ambassador was visiting Robert Kennedy in his own home.
They're trying to avoid a world war, Robert, for Christ's sake!
I can't think of a higher obligation of a president!
I know, Jim!
We're talking about madmen!
Insane criminals in the CIA and the Department of Defense.
And James Jesus Angleton was the mastermind, the organizer.
Robert Trumbull Crowley was the director of clandestine operations.
They brought in William King Harvey, who was stationed in Rome, and Major Cass, Lieutenant Colonel Cass of the U.S.
Marines was the representative of the Department of Defense.
Now, one last thing.
The reason for the Vietnam War was France's request that we had to hold Vietnam and get Indochina back because the drugs coming out of the Golden Triangle could not be exported if the communists controlled Vietnam.
They needed the rivers of Vietnam to get the heroin from the Golden Triangle out to the rest of the world through the shipping ports out of Vietnam.
And this was a deal that was was made between General de Gaulle, President de Gaulle with the CIA to split the profits of the heroin trade.
So the French connection is a very important element in the assassination of President Kennedy.
Finally, they had to stop President Kennedy from giving the speech that was scheduled for one o'clock at the trademark.
Because not only was he going to call for detente with the Soviet Union, he was going to call for joint ventures in outer space, and he was going on a trip to the moon with the Russians, and he was going to reveal the UFO crash in Roswell, and the communications between the United States government with an extraterrestrial presence.
So those are the reasons for President Kennedy's assassination.
They dressed it up in patriotism, and they charged him with high treason.
But he actually saved the world.
Those are the reasons you see it, Robert.
And I'm going to share with you the reasons as I see it.
I just make one addendum that E. Howard Hunt confessed to his son St. John's.
John, whom I've met personally, that the chain of command went from Lyndon Johnson to Cord Meyer, to David Atlee Phillips, to William Harvey, to David Sanchez Morales.
And that excludes a lot of the parties you're talking about.
They may have had a role in planning.
LBJ, as I take it, was the top of the pyramid.
If you are willing to join me next week, let's continue this.
I'm going to send you one place where I lay it out.
I don't know, it might take 90 minutes to review, and you'll see my take.
And I'd be very happy to have your critique so we can see if we can work all this out.
But Oli, you were fantastic on Files.
That was just wonderful.
And Robert, I don't mind we have these clashes.
That's OK.
It goes with the territory.
Gary, Gary, take us out.
All right.
This has been JFK Show number two.
Yeah, take them out.
Number 290.
This has been Robert Morningstar, Oli Domogar, Jim Fetzer, and myself.
And we have to talk about Israel next time.
They had, there was more to do.
I was going to ask, do you think Dubinsky, or the one you said, that sounds like a Mossad name to me, Oli.
Yeah.
What was this association?
You said he was from Toronto.
Let's put it to me.
Go ahead and cut it.
Thank you guys.
It's JFK Show number 291.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you guys.
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