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Nov. 24, 2023 - Jim Fetzer
01:18:03
The New JFK Show #290 Dead Men Do Speak!
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Time Text
All right, welcome to the new JFK Show, number 290.
We're fresh back from Dallas.
We've got David Knight.
We have Larry Rivera, Jim Fetzer, and Gary King.
And these guys are loaded for bear.
They're going to be basically showing their presentation that they just did this year.
And to quote David Knight, it was the best freaking conference in 20 years.
So let's go ahead, Larry.
Well, not only that, history was made there in Dallas with several outstanding presentations.
I mean, I mean, you know, most of them, all of them were very, very good.
But, you know, the Ricky White thing was, you know, something to behold.
And under the conditions that, you know, he showed up at their conference and the
I think one of the most important studies what David has done with the shot from the front and enhancing it with some videos that he actually found of that same weapon going through that same windshield and coming out with exactly the same characteristics that you see in the Alton 6, you know, in the windshield of JFK's limo.
Yeah.
Tell us about Larry, who Ricky White is real quick.
How about Jim?
Jim can give us a little...
Well, Roscoe White, the CIA, was in a Dallas cop uniform.
He had a pistol on the grassy knoll.
He had the easiest shot, but he would have hit Jackie, so he pulled his shot.
The slug wound up in the grass.
Lieutenant Day of the Dallas Police picked it up, and it disappeared forever.
He was the body double for Lee in the Backyard Photographs, where he found a photo of Roscoe in a swimsuit.
And it just met perfectly the physique.
And when you contrast it with Lee's physique, Lee was considerably diminutive compared to Roscoe.
And Ricky actually acknowledged that.
That's Roscoe's son.
We don't want to give it away.
We don't want to give it away because that's... Ricky White, of course, the son of Roscoe and who in 1990 came out and maybe David can give us a little background on that.
Yeah.
As a matter of fact, back in 1990, 90 or 91 was it, Larry?
Was it 1990?
I think it was 1990 when the diary and the canister and everything, you know, it's really fascinating.
They had went and found the footlocker, a pistol canister inside that, inside that, that case.
They found a diary, they found a bank bag with some safety deposit box keys.
They found his dog tags.
I mean, this belonged to Roscoe White.
And then the most important thing of all was the diary.
I scanned in the diary and half of it's just a picture book of things that Ross would have written down.
I can't obviously give away all the details.
It's coming out in the book.
But I hooked up with Bill Klaber and Bill Klaber did interviews with Geneva White back before she passed away when she was hooked up to tubes in the hospital and I was able to get a hold of those cassette tapes after they've been sitting for, oh hell, they went through several hands and were sitting on a shelf in another researcher's possession and I got a hold of those tapes so I could digitize them
So J. Gary Shaw, Brian Edwards, and Ricky White could help write the book with it.
And we played some of those tapes at the conference during the panel.
And just hearing Geneva's voice describing things when she's talking to Bill Claver, I mean, it choked up Ricky.
I mean, everybody that was on there was emotional because that's Geneva White talking from the grave, you know, and anytime that you do a Anytime you do an interview with somebody, you know, in this case, and you put them either on, you either put them on, you know, recording, whether it's audio or video, or you write their story, that becomes part of the historical record.
And to have that information, that's why it's so important to, you know, to digitize and get that information where we can put it out there.
We're going to be putting all of the recordings, unedited, other than, you know, just the beginning and the end, you know, where it's dead space.
But they're gonna be unedited, and they're gonna be put on the Project JFK website.
I'm hoping to have those on.
The book is due out the second week of December, so we're gonna be releasing those cassettes that are now digitized files, and they're highly, highly digitized.
I mean, they are good quality.
Uh, for a cassette tape that's been sitting for years, so those are gonna be coming out.
Kind of like a companion piece, Jim, uh, you know, to go along with the book.
Very nice.
And of course, Roscoe was a nasty piece of work.
We suspect he killed as many as 50 witnesses related to the assassination.
Larry, go ahead.
I think in the book he said something like 20 28.
Now, whether or not those are 28 that he took out, I know there was one page that said 28 witnesses.
But, again, definitely get the book when it comes out, because, I mean, it's a hell of a story, you know?
And he was obviously involved in the assassination.
See, I would contrast him with Files, who disqualifies himself by saying the limousine never even came to a halt.
Quite a shot, huh?
Quite a shot.
Why don't we just briefly talk about the new Paramount Plus video with the Parkland Doctors, you know, maybe talk a couple of minutes about that, because that is one impressive piece of work, and Jim has already seen it.
Right.
Did you want me to comment on it, Larry?
Yeah, sure, just a couple of minutes, you know.
Well, we have here some of the lesser known, but some more.
I mean, you have Robert McClellan, who actually authorized a diagram of the blowout at the back of the head, and you got virtually all these figures.
I mean, we're talking six or seven of the doctors who are, for the most part, lesser known, though some, like Sally, are better known.
Who are all confirming the blowout at the back of the head, and that everyone agreed that there was an entry wound in the throat, or what appeared to them to be, and why they're being qualified is not so clear to me.
It was obviously an entry wound.
Malcolm Perry three times during the Parkland press conference described it as an entry wound.
The bullet was coming at him.
These guys were all experienced with gunshot wounds.
Now, In my opinion, it's marred by having photographs that Groton has touted as autopsy photographs that are clearly fake.
The ones with the long hair and all the gunk in the head and all that, you know, it's unfortunate.
And they weren't sufficiently specific when they got who I take to be the Major with his eyes open and the big gash in the throat, you know, as a contrast to the small clean puncture wound Where that body may have been a real body of this real major that Dennis David told me he was not allowed to log in in violation of protocol, that they found someone in the military who looked a lot like JFK.
Well, actually, what Rick Russo presented, those profiles with the ears are completely different.
Yeah.
Oh, did he?
Just this time?
Yeah.
Oh, well, that's all super.
That's all super.
I love it all.
So it was, you know, in a way, Mart, I think that those who produced this didn't know enough about the medical evidence or the photographic evidence and all that.
But on the other hand, you had quite a Yeah, yeah, yeah.
convergence of opinion about the entry wound in the throat and the blood at the back.
They didn't talk so much about the entry wound at the right temple, but then Malcolm Kilduff had laid it all out.
And Charles Crenshaw, of course, says- And in your books, of course, you publish that collage with about 20 different people in the back of the head.
The back of the head, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David, would you like to add anything?
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you, Jim.
I'd like to add something.
I re-watched the film again today.
I've seen it probably 10 times since it came out last week.
And I looked at the 1 hour and 25 minute mark.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you go back to my presentation, what used to be called New Theory, New Weapon, Dr. Jones states that Arlen Specter came to Parkland Hospital, and this is why they were doing the Warren Commission findings.
- And actually, I have a picture of Arnold Inspector crossing Elm Street while he was doing all of his, you know, measuring out for the SBT, you know?
Go ahead.
Well, why why why our inspector was in town doing the investigation?
He went to Parkland Hospital and Told the doctors this is this is coming from dr. Jones his own mouth in the video Again, the one hour and 25 minute mark and he says that specter came to Parkland told them that they did have eyewitnesses that put a shooter in the front and on the bridge by the railroad tracks now there's only one triple overpass or underpass however you want to say it
and there's only one set of tracks that run there the south null and the north null the tracks are not right there by it it has to be the railroad bridge and then uh he told the doctors we're not going to we don't find them credible so we're not gonna you know take their testimony and i'm not gonna say anything more about this and i don't think you guys should say anything more about this now and then you know 10 years ago when they were filming the interviews dr jones comes out and says that and i said wow that right
there gives another backup to my presentation and my work because now you've got the doctor stating the fact yeah uh Uh, that Specter came down and said, we have eyewitnesses that saw a shooter on the bridge by the railroad tracks, but we're not going to talk to them.
But are we talking about Jack Lawrence inside the triple underpass?
Are we talking about Frank Sturges at the sewer opening at the intersection?
He's talking about on the South, uh, the South, uh, over above Commerce, right, uh, right above the cubby hole that we have been, uh, uh, Proclaiming and he's just above that, but right on the top of the bridge.
Yeah, right there.
We're not changing altering that the shot was fired from inside the triple underpass, are we?
Yeah, he said that it was, it was, uh, it was up on the bridge.
It was up on the bridge and it was, uh, next to the railroad tracks.
That's what Jones says.
Arlo Spector told him.
How does this work with regard to your and my and Gary's, you know, previous analysis of the shot?
I'm sorry?
How does this reconcile with our belief Lawrence was inside the triple underpass by that fuse box and all that, that was where he, from which he fired the shot.
Do you believe he was up above now?
No, I don't know about Lawrence because I, you know, I don't have any identification of any of the shooters in Dealey Plaza.
Uh, just going by trajectories and the studies, you know, and the 3D models and everything, you know, uh, it's just that we're exactly at the same.
In fact, it's where, uh, uh, Doug Weldon, uh, posited his position remembering, in fact, in your book, uh, a top, you know, that, that position, which, uh, David happens to agree.
Uh, and just, uh, just above that cubby hole area, uh, And he's got the, what was the photograph?
It's the Tom Dillard photo.
Dillard, yeah, Dillard, right, correct, Dillard.
And then right after the Tom Dillard photo, the Frank Cancellari photo, which was taken just seconds after the Dillard photo was taken, then the person on the bridge crouched down in that shooting position is gone.
You can see right through, there's nothing opaque blocking that spot.
After I saw that, and that's the first time that I heard Dr. Jones or any of the doctors state what Arlo Spector came down and talked to them about while they were doing the investigation.
And when I saw that, I said, you know, that's definitely going to go in the new version of my presentation.
That's quite a blunder on his part, don't you think?
Well, yeah, I mean, that right there, you know, when he's telling the doctors that, I'm sitting there, I couldn't believe it.
I'm like, why would Specter say that?
Because that's almost admitting that they knew it was a conspiracy.
Sure.
Well, I don't think they say they knew it was a conspiracy.
I mean, they knew it was a conspiracy.
They're not going to talk to, they're not going to interview the witnesses.
They don't find them credible.
Well, they don't find anybody credible.
Hell, they're not credible.
So.
Okay, Larry's got for us part two of the JFK Horaceman.
Well, this goes back to 2014.
You know, we started this and then in 2015, and Gary and I worked our butts off on this, didn't we, Gary?
Gary?
Hello?
He may have been on mute.
Yeah, yeah.
There you go.
I believe this is some of your finest work.
I really believe that.
And between that and having Oswald with the four double A's, this is your finest work.
There's no doubt.
Well, thank you.
But I think you should comment on how this was up on YouTube and then, you know, got scrubbed out of there.
How about that?
There's no doubt.
We're having a hard time keeping this stuff up.
Yeah, we lost our channel for five years, and all of our best shows... Yeah, that's what I wanted you to say on the 60th, and explain, you know, to our audience, you know, how this gets scrubbed away, you know, for so long after it... How many hits, views did it have at the time?
We have millions of views, and as far as this one, at least 60,000 views.
We did one and two, we did part one and part two, which even Douglas Porn, Was proclaiming as, you know, the latest really, really good information coming out on what happened there.
Now we have been given our channel back.
However, it's kind of shadow banned.
If you look for the new JFK show, it's very difficult to come across it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And of course, uh, the queen here, uh, Beverly, you know, and now she, you know, completely, uh, On her own, discovered all these things about the motorcycle escort going on there.
Which, of course, we had these guys, Hargis, Shaney, Jackson, and Martin in the immediate vicinity.
And how in 1971, Fred Newcomb sent these guys, the JFK Horseman, 8mm bootleg copies of the Z film.
Then he commissioned Gilf Toft using the pseudonym John Whitney to conduct follow-up telephone interviews of the motor jockeys, and their conversations were secretly recorded.
In 1974, he published Murder From Within.
That's the cover of the book with Perry Adams.
And in 2014, the raw recordings were made available to me by his son Tyler.
And why are these So important.
And why do I have to come back to this on the 60th anniversary, which we had already done this in 2014 at the Arlington Conference of Judy Baker, remember?
We drove from New Orleans to Dallas.
You guys remember that, right?
Sure, of course.
Yeah.
How can I forget that?
I had my arm in a sling.
That's right.
That's right.
And the issues that are resolved by the Newcomb tapes, of course, the hole in the windshield, the limo stop, the detailed movements of Hargis, Jackson, Shaney, Martin, Freeman, and Ellis.
And now in mentioning this, you know, this Freeman, Harry Freeman, takes on a completely different role here after what you're going to see here.
And besides Clint Hill, the actions of the Secret Service agents in the follow-up car, the Queen Mary, A second Secret Service agent in the limousine, and a piece of skull that was picked up by a young boy on the infield on the south curb of Elm Street, which we, the only kid that could have been there was Joey Bram, you know, Charles Bram's son.
And of course, the null writer, and I have the three asterisks because those are not included in the Newcomb tapes, but they are part of Beverly's research, and it's very important.
And what happened with these Warren Commission escort officers?
You got a total of 18 and the only, uh, this is a distribution of, you know, who came before the Warren commission and, you know, you've got Bobby Hargis and how many pages, in other words, you know, how many, you know, uh, the.
Councils, assistant councils here, dedicated how much time with each witness, and that's exactly, you know, what you see here, you know.
These two guys were splattered with blood.
They only get three and four and a half pages, seven and a half pages between the two.
That's, I mean, that's ridiculous.
And then Merriam-Baker, where there are now, of course, researchers who discount the entire You know, and David knows who I'm talking about.
And 29 pages, you know, and when this guy was way in the tail end of the motorcade.
Clyde Hager, the same thing, six pages.
E.D.
Brewer and Earl Brown.
I'll show you, right now in a diagram here, I'm going to show you These guys were not even at TD Plaza.
They were down on Stemmons.
Already on Stemmons Beyond.
Remember when we went to Dallas and we stood under the ramp?
Yeah.
For the second stop.
Exactly.
Gary remembers that.
Right, Gary?
Absolutely.
These guys got six pages when they weren't even there.
Exactly.
They probably didn't even hear any shots.
David Knight, any comment real quick that you might want to throw in there?
Well, I mean, as far as them not hearing the shots, or...
No, the entire situation with this distribution of who gets called before the Warren Commission, who's not, you know.
Well, yeah, I mean, they have, you know, thousands, they said they had thousands of eyewitnesses to, you know, to take, and they could have got statements from, and then they only interview and get the testimony of eyewitnesses that, you know, I mean, you go in there and you look, I mean, there's eyewitnesses that they deposed and got testimony from that really has nothing to do with...
They're relevant.
Yeah, they're not relevant.
I mean, talking to, you know, teachers at Oswald had, I mean, there's no point in having that or looking at dental records.
You know, I mean, I'm just...
I sat back and looked at it going, okay, you had several eyewitnesses that you could have gotten statements from, and you chose not to listen to them, and not depose them.
It really, from a legal aspect, why would you not depose witnesses that were right there?
And of course the most important ones are Cheney and Jackson, you know, they're at the bottom of this list, you know.
And how close were they to JFK?
And how close were they to JFK?
How about-- ARMS REACH.
They were ARMS REACH.
Is this close enough?
Yeah.
So why were they not called before the Warren Commission, Retired FBI agent James R. Malley speculates in 1975 and underlined here in red, I mean, this one drew laughter, you know, at the conference.
Regarding the motorcycle officers, he speculated that they never came to our attention as being persons who could furnish pertinent information He feels that if they had pertinent information, they should have come forward.
And then they were pretty much preoccupied at the time of the shooting with maintaining balance on their motorcycles at the slow speed of the motorcade and looking ahead to avoid hitting anything.
How idiotic.
Moronic.
But Douglas Jackson did come forward and provide pertinent information.
That night he wrote his memoir, I Saw the President Assassinated.
And he was the only motor jockey asked to do so.
So people have maligned Henry Wade in this case for so long.
I mean, the conspiracy and people later.
But he actually worked with Harold Weisberg.
And in this case, he had Jackson's memoir transcribed by his secretary and sent over to Harold Weisberg.
I thought that was, you know, pretty neat, you know?
So anyway, this is what we get when the FBI finally gets around to interviewing Cheney and Jackson, okay?
1975.
And this is the first version and the second version, you know, non-redacted, and we find out that it's Chelsea Brown and David Israelson who do Cheney.
And then Rand and Israelson, who do Douglas Jackson, okay, within those interviews, this is what you get.
Conducted well after the 71 Newcomb tapes, and this is how they wrapped it all up regarding the noises.
Now, we're talking about noises that they heard.
They're not shots or anything, Jim, Gary, and David.
He further stated he is positive the shot that struck President Kennedy in the head was fired from his right rear.
Talking about Jackson.
The vicinity of the TSBD.
And Cheney, that he was positive that all the noises, mind you, noises he heard were coming from behind his motorcycle, and none of these noises came from the side or the front of the position in which Cheney was located.
Embarrassingly bad, Larry.
Embarrassingly bad.
But then in the much more, you get Cheney reacting towards the no, you know, you can get that.
You were what part of the motorcade were you?
This is where we're going to listen to what these guys had to say.
And like I've said before, why is this not the paradigm of what happened on Elm Street?
I do not know because these are the guys that were there.
Let's check it out.
You were, what part of the motorcade were you?
I was a sergeant on a motorcycle in charge of the escort of the motorcade.
Complete the movement of the motorcade.
You know, it's an interval between vehicles that's on the straightaway and a closed interval in the downtown area and so forth like this.
I was in front of Kennedy's car.
You were in front of Kennedy's car?
Yes, I had the chief of police's car right in front of Kennedy's car and then I was in front of the chief of police's car on a motorcycle.
And I had two men assigned on either side of Kennedy's car to the side and to the rear of the back fender.
We took the motorcade from Love Field to the downtown area, and then after the shooting, we took him over to the hospital.
Which car were you closest to?
Trying to get a picture in my mind, that's why I'm so nervous.
I was in front of the Chief of Police car.
He had a car with the Sheriff Decker and the Secret Service Chief in it.
They were in front of the limousine that was carrying the President.
I was directly in front of theirs and to the left a little bit where I could see back down the side.
In other words, you would have been on the opposite side of the depository.
On the opposite side of the side that faces the depository.
Right.
The right side of the car was at the North Curve, which... I see, you were on the South Curve.
I was on the South Curve.
Right, now I got a picture, I got a picture.
What position did you have at that point, when they were coming down the Elm towards the Elm?
I was right to the left front, clearly.
I was out, oh, some few feet out to the left front out there.
I don't know exactly how...
So, we got a before and after situation here, Jim.
Okay, this is before the Newcomb tapes, and this is after the Newcomb tapes.
So we got a before and after situation here, Jim.
Okay, this is before the Newcomb tapes, and this is after the Newcomb tapes.
Now, as you can see, Ellis, now we have Ellis down here right before the triple underpass.
And we get Freeman in a position that I'm going, holy smoke.
We never knew anything about this guy.
And he admits right there in the Newcomb tapes that this is his position.
Am I right?
I mean, uh, yeah.
Yeah.
In between the pilot car or the exactly.
So, and the limousine, the Lincoln.
Yeah.
That's right.
So before, now, we didn't have Shaney and Jackson, you know, joining Hargis and Martin, okay?
And over to the far right, over to the far right here, we have the Mouse.
Before we had Hagen and Baker, but now we've got McClain and McClain of, you know, the Dictabelt thing, you know?
Right.
H.B.
McClain, okay?
So now we're filling out more.
And let me go back, you know, I mean, is this dramatic or what?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, is this by accident?
You mean that it was suppressed in the past?
No, not by accident.
Okay, so let's start with Jim's favorite.
Did you get a look at the car once it got to the hospital?
The car?
Once it was emptied out?
Yes sir, I sure did.
There was a mass of blood in the back seat and pieces of skull bone and there was a hole in the Left front windshield.
Do you know how it got there by any chance?
Well, I would say it came from the shot, one of the shots was shot at the President.
One of them there that, I don't know, I believe it was the first shot, I saw it hit the street behind us and throw up a flash of dust where it hit the concrete curb.
And I saw a bunch of people fall and I thought... Are you sure that was a hole?
Because we keep thinking it's just a crack or something.
Well, it was a hole.
You could put a pencil through it.
I showed it to Officer Chaney out there at the hospital.
And the angle on it was like if something came over from high on the right rear side and came down right in front of the driver and out the glass into the street.
About five, six, three to six inches to the right of the left post of the windshield, which would have been right, would have went right just over and to the front of the steering wheel and out at that angle.
The trajectory of that hole in the building and the place where it hit the street would have been just exactly right.
I showed it to Cheney at the hospital.
regular standard writing pencil wood pencil and stick through there and about that side nothing like that there's where that first one when he says some secret service agent rumpus that's no bullet hole that's a fragment it wasn't a damn fragment it was a hole there you go and there was the bullet hit the street down there the fbi come out there and cut a plug of that concrete curve out for the investigation where the bullet hit
fantastic Do you remember seeing the windshield exploding and things like that?
On the presidential car?
Right.
No, I didn't see it explode.
I didn't even know it even had a hole in it until after we got to the hospital.
You saw the hole at the hospital?
Yeah.
When you say we, who else did you see?
Who else was out there?
Yeah, who saw the hole?
Oh gosh, I don't know.
I think Ellis also saw it.
Yeah.
Should have.
In other words, it really was a hole, not a crack.
It was a hole on the left side to the left of the driver.
So how close were you when you looked at it?
At that time?
Yeah.
Oh, heck, right beside it.
I ain't got to touch it.
You didn't touch it at all, to feel what it was?
No, huh?
But you couldn't be quite sure it was a hole?
Oh, yes.
Yeah, it's a bullet hole.
You can tell what it was.
Why did you think that?
Hmm.
Jackie tried to get out of the limo, according to Bobby Harges.
Let me see if I can get this shot or something.
It's alright.
Here we go.
Shot or something.
Oh, you talking about Jackie Kennedy?
Was that Jackie yelling that?
Oh, afterwards, yeah.
Boy, she was.
I'll tell you she was.
What was she yelling?
Huh?
Do you remember what she was yelling?
Yeah, uh, oh my God, they killed Jack or something like that.
But I'll tell you what, uh, Of course.
Is this off the record?
This is all off the record.
It is?
Yes, sir.
I'm not writing any kind of a book.
Have no fear.
Well, uh... What struck me strangely was when, uh... When he started... Excuse me.
When he fell over, he fell over to his left, and she was sitting on the left.
And that Secret Service man almost stopped that car.
Uh-huh, right.
And, uh...
Well, after the first shot, we almost stopped the car.
Then after the second shot, well, he fell over on, uh, on Jackie.
And, uh, she was just, boy, she just didn't want to have anybody get in.
She didn't even want anybody to touch her.
And she was trying to get out of that car she was in, and concerned of getting that Secret Service agent in there.
He was just blocking her way to get in there.
Right, that was Clint Hill, I think.
Huh?
That was Clint Hill who was trying to keep her in.
Yeah, he did.
Alright, she couldn't get out.
Scared, I guess.
Just panicked.
It's a little strange to me.
I kind of think that there was some action in the car.
Why the hell would she want to get out of the car?
Scared, I guess.
Just panicked.
That's the only other thing that I can think of, because she was hollering unintelligible words.
I didn't understand what she was saying.
This is very odd, Larry, because Jackie was going after that chunk of Jack's gone brain that she held in her hand all the way to the hospital.
That's right, and Jackson has another interpretation, as we shall see.
The limo stopped.
What Hargis is saying is... Do you remember how long it stopped when it was on Elm Street?
Oh, you mean after that first shot?
Right.
Only about a...
I've got this.
Please move this window away from the shared application.
I think you can ignore that, Larry.
Just go back to your slideshow.
- - Okay.
I've got this, please move this window away from the shared application. - I think you're gonna ignore that, Larry.
Just go back to your slideshow.
You're doing great.
Yeah, get back to full screen.
Do you remember how long it was on Elm Street?
Oh, you mean after that first shot?
Right.
Only about a... Oh, three, four seconds.
Maybe five, six.
That's all.
You say it stopped for about five or six seconds?
Yeah, but you won't find that in the Warren Commission report.
Don't they claim that it stopped?
Huh?
Don't they claim that it stopped?
Uh, no.
I don't think he didn't, uh... You've seen a rolling stop, haven't you?
It's going less than one mile an hour.
Right, right.
Well, that's what he was doing.
He wasn't completely stopped to the dead still.
Well, I never did get too far from it, so I'd have to say that car did all but stop.
So how long a period of time would you say?
Just a moment.
Because of the length of time that I was stopped, the point in that second, shot and the third shot would have been just a little bit.
I had stopped, put both feet down, looked toward the railroad track, back through the crowd, back to the car, and see that third shot hit him.
Then I turned around back to my right rear and looked again.
Again, I never did look up at that window.
Never did look up at the fourth top of the building.
Now you say the car came to that stop between the second and third shot, do you imagine?
Yeah.
Did it stop?
That's when you were looking around at that point.
Right.
Then I looked back to the car again, and time to see this Secret Service agent crawling over, up on the back of it.
Right, that was Clint Taylor, I believe.
Right.
Yeah.
He laid down right across the top of that convertible.
Right over the seat.
A lot of things in there.
In fact, we see one thing which is very disturbing, that the car doesn't even stop in that film.
It doesn't even slow down.
It doesn't slow down at all.
No, somebody's monkeying around with something.
I was sworn at it, that it was the time that he tried to get up, that the car stopped, and then... You say who was trying to get up?
The agent, after the shooting.
That when he came up and jumped on the back of the car, at that instant is when it stopped and I believe he lost his balance and then they started again and of course it was throwing him off and that's when she turned around and I thought was trying to help him get up on the, you know, What did you think of the film?
I liked it.
The only thing is, I thought that caravan stopped and it didn't.
I don't recall myself stopping for that type of thing, but I must have come almost as fast as Hargis did to get off his motorcycle over on the left-hand side and run between those two cars.
The President's limousine stopped for a while, right at that point?
Well, no, it didn't stop.
It almost stopped.
If you've ever ridden a motor, you know if you go so slow, your motor will want to lean to one side.
You have to put your foot down and balance it.
Well, we were going so slow that that's what was happening.
We were having to kick our foot down there.
It was a very slow pace.
After the first shot was fired, they cut the speed, the Secret Service cut the speed on the convoy.
Do you know for how long?
Well, it was just momentarily.
It never did stop, but it almost stopped.
It got so slow, we were just barely moving.
And then they hollered, go, go, go!
Larry, there is something very wrong here, because those who have seen the other film have confirmed the stop, it was an abrupt stop, it threw everyone forward and it stayed there until Jack was dead.
And we talked about all the activities, the Cheney dismounting, running between the vehicles, Douglas Jackson, the five agents dismounting surrounding the car, so something is wrong here.
They were stationary for as much as 20 seconds.
Maybe.
Let's see what happens next.
I don't recall myself talking to that.
I must have almost a target to get off his motorcycle over on the left hand side.
Apparently, I just really don't recall talking to that much.
Right.
Now, and Penn Jones, forgive my grief, he followed James L. Simmons, who was not called before the Warren Commission either, and And, uh, he talked about at the, uh, Shaw trial and, uh, and he was questioned by, uh, district attorney assistant DA, uh, Alvin Osler, Osler.
And he asked him, uh, did the car speed up?
And he says, no, in fact, the car stopped or almost stopped.
Then did the car speed up?
Yes.
After they got the motorcycle policeman out of the way.
So Penn Jones.
Uh, went ahead and, and, you know, started to question that situation and he, uh, and he figured that the damn police had him trapped.
Why did the car stop instead of plunging out of that spot?
The police had the president literally trapped while he was being shot to pieces from several directions.
And down here, Simmons said, uh, uh, he believed there was a motorcycle cop At the left front of the automobile who got in the way and who made it appear he was trying to find out what the shooting was all about.
Are we talking Freeman this Freeman?
That's exactly right.
So this is the only person who, you know, is available for that role.
Yeah, who responds to that position is Harry Freeman.
And this guy just fell through the cracks, you know, never, ever.
You know, the only information you have on him is what you just saw here, you know, in this presentation.
But, Larry, what about the five agents dismounting and surrounding the presidential?
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's coming up.
Now, a piece of skull, bone picked up by a kid on the infield beyond the south curb.
And here's what Stavis had to say about this. - No, I didn't get that close.
I know that down on the street a piece of his skull blew out of the car and blew over on the grass, and a kid picked it up, and the Secret Service man took it away from him and threw it in the back of the car.
We, our people, right there at the motor knew how bad he was hurt.
I knew he was hit.
I didn't know how bad he was until my man Chaney came up there and said, "He's got no chance, but let's go." He said his head was just...
Well, I didn't really know for sure until we got to the hospital with him that there wasn't any chance for him.
After talking to my office, they come in and say, And that piece of bone that the secret serviceman took from that young boy, you say, in the grass?
Yes.
Then he came to the hospital and he threw it in the car there?
He put it in the car back at, right there as it happened, as I remember.
As it happened at the, on the street on the hill?
Yes, sir.
Right.
The President's limousine stopped for a while, right, at that point?
Well, no, it didn't stop.
It almost stopped.
What else did I want to ask?
So much stuff coming into my head, I can hardly hold it all together.
I'm trying to think.
When you saw the SS Secret Service man put the piece of skull in the car, was that at the hospital he did that, or at the... Oh, I'm trying to remember if he put it there, I think.
Believe it how he put it, he threw it back in there right there where it happened there, and I remember because the kid that gave it to him was on the grass on the side of the street there where it happened.
And he picked it up right there in Elm, is that?
The kid picked it up and had it and gave it to the Secret Service man, took it away from him.
You remember seeing that, you say, over at Elm Street?
I beg your pardon?
And you say you remember seeing that over at the depository that time, when the Secret Service man put the skull in?
No, I didn't see him put it in at all.
You didn't?
No, I just...
What made you feel how to get in there?
One of my men saw him dead.
It was either Chaney or Jackson, one of the two.
The two most important ones.
Okay, now that here is where we get to the good part, Jim.
Douglas Jackson, on the Newcomb tapes, there was four people that came Come out of that follow-up car and run out to either side of that residential limousine with rifles of some type.
And how can that not be happening if the limo's not stopped?
And how can Between that second and third shot, I believe, when I noticed them run by the car.
They ran the same both sides of the car?
Right.
There was two of them you said?
I believe there was three on one side, on that right side, I believe there was three of them.
That's what you're saying?
Right.
There was three of them?
I believe that.
Uh oh.
There were some more people come out of that follow up car and run out to either side of that presidential limousine with rifles or some type.
I said about two or three on either side.
Yeah.
Uh, I put between that second and third shot, I believe, when I noticed them run by them, He ran, he flung both sides of the car.
Right.
And he swept two of them, you think?
I believe there was three on one side, on that right side, I believe there was three of them.
That's what you're saying?
Right.
There was three of them?
I believe I thought I saw two of them over on the other side.
I wouldn't swear, brother.
And, uh, but neither the two or the three of the ones take time in the car?
No, this, uh, this, he, uh, he just ran and Apparently to me, evidently, he had just run up there and jumped on the back of the car.
Now, Live Magazine printed that picture on... I would argue the fact that... that, uh... he missed it, you know.
Uh, he stopped at that car and they started accelerating about that time and he missed that step.
Right, right.
You missed it, didn't you?
Well, I would argue that this didn't even happen, but I didn't see it.
Uh, Live Magazine printed that picture, that film, but it was cut up.
It had been edited, and quite a bit of it was cut out.
But it does show Miss Kennedy get up, leaning over the pack, and they saw it.
And, uh, some of them said that Miss Kennedy was leaving that car trying to get away from it.
I don't think so.
I think she was just reaching back there to help that Savior Service man on there because she knew he was coming.
And then Martin has another one, and here Jackson has a different interpretation altogether, which is exactly what you were talking about.
Yes.
Okay, ready?
Okay.
Yes.
She wasn't reaching back to help Clint Hill.
She was going after the chunk of Jack's skull and brains, which he held in her hand all the way to Parkland, and then he gave to Pepper Jenkins.
That's just what they saw, and what they thought they saw.
Yeah.
And again, Shane, he talks about, you know, let's listen to the song.
Okay, now that is the confirmation of Jackson, okay?
Jackson talked about the officers, you know, surrounding the JFK limo, and here you have Cheney confirming that in the Newcomb tapes.
Yeah, that's good.
Shooting incident.
Of course, pandemonium broke out.
The Secret Service men, well-trained in their job, immediately began fanning out into the crowd, looking for the assassin.
Right.
Now... Yeah.
Sorry, go ahead, Gary.
No, I was just saying that that's as much confirmation as you want.
It was Doug Horn that used that as soon as he got a hold of it from you.
So here now, some controversial stuff, maybe.
Hargis and Ellis state a second Secret Service agent jumped into the limo.
And as you can see, this is an image grabbed from the Z film.
And we're going to talk about it more in a Couple of frames here.
Now, these are extremely brilliant, good images from the Z Film, Jim and Gary, that we found.
And the reason that we want to establish here, these frames here, is because of Connelly, alright?
And the color of his hair, alright?
Obviously, you know, you can see this very gray, okay, color Uh, to Connelly's hair.
And these are, these are the parts of the Z film where already both JFK, let's go back there.
Uh, uh, Connelly is, this is where he's just getting hit.
Am I correct, Jim?
You know, his, uh, his puff, his, uh, cheeks are puffed.
JFK is already reacting, correct?
Yeah, I would say yes.
And, uh, this is where obviously, uh, Connelly is, uh, hit.
But the thing about it here is, look at the direction, and we all know about this, that Connelly is falling towards Nellie, correct?
Yeah.
And he ends up on the floorboards, as well as JFK.
Now, here's the next one, and you can see Connelly going down, still, and Jackie is trying to find out what's going on to Jack.
And then we get this, where If you look at Nellie, you know, her head is already casting a shadow on the left side of Connelly's face, correct?
And Connelly continues to fall towards her side of the car, okay?
And he continues all the way down to the bottom there.
And now, even today, we're finding out new things about this.
And I believe we have a, yeah, we have a An enlargement.
And notice, Jim and Gary, how Kellerman has disappeared from the picture.
You want me to go back?
Yeah.
That's very damn strange.
How could Kellerman disappear?
Okay, this is Kellerman.
You see him right there?
Sure.
Now, what happened?
I mean, is his head on the dashboard?
No, they airbrushed him out.
You see that?
Larry, uh, be sure to, uh, I know earlier you said these were frames, but these are from the stream.
Right, right.
These are, right.
These are actually... Explain that so that way people understand, because we see this frog in a hole.
Right.
We don't, we're not matching this up to frames in the Z film.
These are from the stream.
Right.
Talk about that, Larry.
Yeah.
And this, in, in this, uh, discussion and in, in what's relevant here is that we're not, uh, Naming frames here in the Z and the Z film like 313 or even 343 the one that we have the blood and 372 I think it was the gym also discovered the blood on the back of it.
This is a stream of data Okay, and I have a program that's able to just go to wherever I want I was gonna demonstrate it but you know it's right now we don't have time for that maybe next time but and how you know i can just move through the stream of data and go even even in between frames all right so it's not a set uh frame number like david uh just uh mentioned
so here we have kellerman just appearing you know completely all right like i said uh very strange yeah but more so look at jackie's lapel how it's grown up to the top of her left ear you know what's going on there and And then you can also see, which I think is they've retouched the back of JFK's head to hide the blowout.
Yeah, of course.
And then look at this black streak on Nelly's back.
You see that?
Isn't that Connelly's suit?
No, no, no, no.
No, he's already practically in her lap.
All right, so they put that in there as well.
And then here's where it gets really interesting.
I want you to look at the green airbrushing going on above Nellie and Connelly, okay?
And it's like an amorphous blob that sort of floats there.
And I'll go here.
You see that?
Yes.
Okay, and go here and then go here.
And then here we start to see the second agent emerge from within that haze, you know?
And you can see him here, and that's not Connolly at all.
That is the second agent.
Trust me.
How could he have got in there, Larry?
Well, the thing is that this is where part of the Z film is spliced, obviously.
Obviously.
Gotta be.
It's gotta be.
Of course, you know.
Well, he would have to have got in when the limousine was stationary.
Yeah, but the part that we don't see.
Of course, we don't see any of that in the Z film, Jim.
So this is going on in exactly that time period, you know, that's four or five seconds, and it's stopped completely, and we don't see it in the Z film.
So that's exactly the point of entry here.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And they were messing with every aspect of this.
Every aspect.
Oh, yeah.
Complete, complete.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
And then this is the one that really attracted everybody's attention.
And Mike, our expert, Mike Chanska, who we've had on this show a couple of times, you know, Weird.
Very weird.
Look at this guy right there.
And now, and it's like David and I were talking about this, looks like this guy's arranging bodies, you know?
And that obviously is not Connolly.
And right now he's in the backseat.
It looks like he's in the backseat.
Sort of like arranging Kennedy, you know, shooing him down, you know, where Jackie's, you know, huh?
Weird.
Very weird.
Very weird, Larry.
This is technology speaking to you.
You think this, you think you've identified what was Glenn Bennett?
Absolutely, we're going on here, okay?
So, if you examine, keep examining the Z Film going further down Elm Street here, we get down, you see the lamppost there?
Right behind, you can see the figure of the same guy, alright?
And we're gonna go a little bit further, and there he is, you see that?
I'll go back and forth here.
Yeah, he's wearing some kind of hat.
No, no, that's just his hair reflection.
That's because Bennett had that type of hair.
And then, of course, we've got, you know, Limo Rider there still is.
Clint Hill, he's still straddling the limo there.
Okay, see that?
And that's obviously, you know, the end of the Z film.
And the reason I put this here is because at this moment in time, we know that he's not in the limo yet.
Okay.
He's going to get in the limo at the second stop, which comes under, over there on the Simmons ramp.
Okay.
But they advised you to jump out of their car and proceed to the car in front of them?
Well, two of them did.
Two?
Uh-huh.
I don't know what he's saying.
One at the back of the car.
Two ran up to the back of the Conway.
Huh?
Two ran up to the back of the Conway.
Those two Secret Service men, you know they've got steps up there.
Right, right.
That they ride on, you know.
Uh-huh.
And that's the one on the left-hand side is the one that stopped Jackie Kennedy from coming.
Uh-huh.
And one of them got up on the back and stopped that jacket.
That was probably Clint Hill.
And the other one, how did, did he get into the car?
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Where did he get in the car?
Well, I'm not sure exactly if it was this one on the left, one on the right, but one of them, uh, put his body over the president.
Where the arms would come to him, I guess.
I don't know, but that's all you could see was his feet sticking out.
Mm-hmm.
All you could see was his feet sticking out.
Is that a part of the Secret Service agent?
Yeah, there's his butt.
Did you notice who was in the car?
There was a Governor, Governor Conley and his wife, a driver and a Secret Service man, and Jackie Kennedy in the back with the dead President, and One or two agents by then were on there because we nearly lost one of them hanging on as fast as it was going.
He had a hard time hanging on there.
I think there were two agents, this one old boy that Jackie knew that made the trip across overseas with her.
He kept running and jumped on there and another one and by the time we pulled out I think we had two agents hanging on the back.
You had two on the back?
I know we had one and possibly two.
You don't know who the other one was?
No, there's one more named Hill.
Hill, yeah.
Hill was the guy, I think, hanging on the back.
Yeah, he's the guy that went overseas and guarded Jackie on a trip she took overseas.
And she was looking for him.
She turned around.
She knew he was there, I guess.
She went to looking and hollering for him.
And he run, jumped on the back of the car, and he nearly fell as we was taking off.
There you go from Stavis and Hargis, you know.
All you could see was his feet sticking out, and we know that that is not JFK's foot, as CD87 claimed.
The Miller photograph, and Jim and I did an article on this many years ago, and people were, you know, calling us crazy, you know, because of this.
And it just so happens that this is the version of CD87, and it says that that's President Kennedy's foot.
Okay.
And, uh, you know, I just laughed, you know, and, uh, obviously, you know, as you see the Z film and see how, uh, Kennedy is already flatlined falling over, you know, and, uh, and then we find this, that from both versions of the same photograph, uh, in the Warren Commission, uh, look at the hatchet job they did there, you know, obviously trying to hide the fact that it's a left foot.
It's not a right foot.
Okay.
And trying to satisfy this theory of a Clint Hill with his right foot.
All right.
And then we get here a close-up and we start to look at the both individuals, you know, Clint Hill in comparison with the limo rider there.
And we say, we see that they're not even close to being, you know, there's Clint and there's the limo rider, you know.
Plus, you know, not just the fact that he's not wearing his sunglasses, you know, but everything, you know, regarding this guy.
It looks a lot more like Glenn Bennett, you know, and I have to thank some friends, you know, that provided... This is a wonderful sequence here, Larry.
Very good.
So we... and down to the tuft of hair there falling over his forehead, which obviously Clint Hill did not have.
Well, Larry, not just that, but on the sideburns, the photographs of Glenn Binnett when he's standing there at Love Field, if you look at the sideburns, his sideburn comes up to a point off to the side, almost like a sergeant stripe.
And Clint Hill doesn't have that, but you know, it's right here in these overlays and then the limo rider.
Yeah, that's perfect.
- I think that I-- - That's not burn. - Yeah, that's perfect.
I also had done one with Clint Hill and it was so dissimilar that I decided to not even include it.
But then we get the Daniel film, you know, and before, and again, Mike Macheska, you know, points out the fact that you got a lot of people in there.
Like one, two, three, you know, even though flesh tones, you know, are different, you know, but there's got to be at least four people there, you know, there's five arrows, but You know, at least your Kellerman and Greer are accounted for, but then the one there in the middle, I mean, you know, it cannot be Connolly, it cannot be JFK, you know.
So, and then, as it gets closer, we start losing occupants, you know, and this is what Mike pointed out, that there was retouching here.
Boom!
Right there, okay?
So, something fishy is going on.
This is before they get to the Simmons Freeway ramp.
Where we get the second limo stop.
And this officer, Errol Brown, was stationed atop the railroad overpass there that crosses Stemmons.
The one that exits right there, Elm Street.
And he testified, like I just mentioned a few slides ago, that why was this guy being called before the Warren Commission?
It's so ridiculous.
He wasn't even in the vicinity.
And you see here where it says Stemmons Ramp, With the white arrow, that's the position that you guys and I went over and explored that day, remember?
Yeah.
Yeah, in fact, there's a lot of wind.
It's like a wind tunnel there because of the position there of the overpass.
But that's where they found refuge, okay?
And we're able to stop for 30 seconds and regroup, and that's confirmed in this 1981 Conversation with Chief Jesse Curry with, of all people, Gary Mack, you know, and he said the motorcade came to a virtual halt on the access ramp to Stemmons.
Now, why did they say virtual?
It came to a halt, Larry.
There was nothing virtual.
No, but he comes, no, but then next he says for nearly 30 seconds, patrolman Earl Brown was on the railroad overpass, which spans Stemmons, not the triple on their path.
And saw the cars come to a halt for nearly 30 seconds as it approached him.
Of course.
Now, we're almost done here.
The Noel writer, of course, this is an extraordinary research by Beverly Brunson, you know, just going and, you know, hitting, you know, all the information that was available, newspapers, magazines, the Warren Commission.
She had all 26 volumes, you know, of the Warren Commission.
You know, and we talked about this.
I even did a web blog post.
There was that the Warren Commission claimed that there were no witnesses who ever stated that there was an old rider.
There was no evidence to support that.
A motorcycle policeman, you know, racing up the grassy embankment.
No, it didn't happen.
Beverly Brunson, however, Continue to insist that in fact, so far as I know, nobody but me has ever been interested in him.
And we go into the next film and we, I mean, there's not much to work with, but we get this indication here where he sort of seems to be jumping the curb.
One of the, you know, there's two curbs there if you've been there.
The one on the street and then the one that goes up to the, uh, to the Grassy Knoll.
And she noted the newspapers were replete with stories of the null rider.
Well, if they're replete, then how can there have been no witnesses?
Well, they control everything.
A motorcycle patrolman rode pell-mell up a railroad embankment, apparently in pursuit of the assassin.
She kept, you know, collecting all this information.
Then when we looked at the Bell film, There appears to be these tire marks, and I remember David put this image into his... David, what's the name of that construction?
It's a virtual reality viewer.
Right.
And you can put the image on your phone, you put it in the virtual reality viewer, that's the one that I have, and you can actually see this even better on an Oculus.
Right.
But you can look up, you can look over, and the entire picture is basically completely around you.
You get a lot more definition, yeah, and also the feeling that you're in a 3D space, of course.
Yeah.
Confirming the grooves.
Yeah.
So, Beverly, she kept pounding on this thing, Jim and Gary, you know, and she finds all these witnesses who never went before the Warren Commission but were interviewed by the FBI, you know.
And in here, you know, for example, Mr. Winborn, the police officer riding it on the grassy slope on the north side of Elm, and this officer rushed up the steps leading to the pavilion and was lost from sight.
Then Simmons, of course, Was never caught that a motorcycle policeman drove up the grassy slope.
And a policeman towed his motorcycle down in the middle of the street and ran up the embankment with his pistol drawn.
He was running toward that particular spot.
And also another motorcycle policeman right behind him tried I wonder who that might have been.
on his motorcycle and it turned over about halfway up the embankment.
Okay.
And he got out, got off his motorcycle and left it laying there and run on over to the fence with his gun in his hand.
Wonder who that might have been.
Okay.
How about Lee Bowers?
The first one to appear on the scene, other than those who, of course, were standing around, including two on top of the triple underpass was one who rode a motorcycle up the incline coming up from the lower portion of Elm Street.
And he rode perhaps two thirds of the way up or more before he deserted his motorcycle.
Uh, at the time of the shooting.
How about this guy?
Pulitzer Prize winning photographer Bob Jackson, and he describes the Knoll Rider in astonishing detail.
Let's check it out.
So as I surveyed the scene, just for a moment there, I could see the confusion, the bedlam, people covering up their kids, a motorcycle cop rode his motorcycle up the grassy knoll, and just let it keep running.
He jumped off, the motorcycle went off, until it fell over.
Are we communicating here?
Very nice.
Great witness.
So, I mean, you know, so Brunson calls Douglas in, I have to agree 100%.
The great unsung hero of the day, man.
This guy reacted, you know.
And why keep Jackson so much in the dark?
As she discovered that he was a great unsung hero of the day.
He was, in fact, the officer whom Lee Bowers saw riding up the steps on the road, on the knoll, wrecking his cycle, you know, several people on the overpass, blah, blah.
They were fascinating by the behavior of the motorcycle escort.
And in film, you see spectators turning away from the side of the sentry, Mrs. Kennedy, and we'll see that image coming up on top of the trunk, the limousine trunk, to watch something going on on the other side.
Uh, this is where the steps near the steps.
And like she said, the newspapers of the day were full of this event and the cyclist riding up the Nolan.
Who was it?
And then she mentioned, you know, here's that image, you know, uh, the franzen family looking towards the steps, you know, instead of looking at, uh, Jackie, you know, and, uh, Emmett Hudson, which, uh, Gary and I talked about this in, uh, in the original JFK horseman series, you know, Jerry goes, man, those guys are trying to, you know, they're running away from this.
Harley is coming straight at them.
Isn't that right, Gary?
Yeah, you can tell.
That's right.
So, anyway.
And to finish this, you know, The Wild Ride, I insisted that this is in her own handwriting, that the kind of confusion that appears in the various stories put out by Harjes, Martin and Chaney, and the burial of the unsung Jackson is significant.
Why was that Wild Ride never ignored?
I mean, And the man who made it never identified until now.
And I'll give up the shoe here for you guys.
Love it, love it.
You know, the Newcomb tapes, you know, must define what happened on Elm Street.
And we have to pre-set every day, you know.
I don't know, you know.
David, would you like to add a comment or two before we conclude?
Oh, go ahead.
Go on, go on.
Take it away.
Well, I'll tell you what.
Getting into what Larry has uncovered with Glenn Bennett.
We know the fact that he had to be in the limousine.
One thing that I'd like to say is we know that the limousine stopped at least twice.
Once on Elm Street and once underneath the Stimmons on-way ramp.
And Officer Brown is standing there on the railroad trestle Uh, you know, he had testified that, you know, the car took, you know, 30 seconds to get, you know, from where he last saw it to where it was coming out on the bridge.
I mean, he couldn't see underneath that area of the on-ramp bridge to Simmons Freeway, but he knew that the car had stopped because it didn't appear.
And Ed Hoffman is standing there on the side of the highway on the side of Simmons Freeway.
And, you know, he's trying to get, you know, Officer Brown's attention, and when Hickey comes out and he's holding that rifle and pointing it at Ed Hoffman, he just stops dead in his tracks, and he sees that car go by.
Ed Hoffman had the best view to look down in the limousine as it was getting onto Stimmons Freeway.
He could see the hole in the back of Kennedy's head.
He saw the horror that was in that car, the carnage.
And then, on top of that, he would have seen Yeah, but he didn't know.
I know, but he didn't.
Right, right, right.
How many people in there?
Yeah, right, right.
Right, right, right.
With a hole in his head.
And just so he doesn't give a damn about how many agents were in the car.
How many people were there?
He didn't know how many agents were in the car when it was coming through Elm Street before any of the shots fired out.
Yeah, right, right.
But, Larry, this is another powerful argument that they were stationary.
This guy isn't jumping in the car when it's moving.
Right, right.
I mean, they've come to a halt, and he's getting in there, and what the hell is he getting in there to do?
Why would he be rearranging the bodies?
This is a crime scene.
This is obviously improper motivation.
A couple things I'd like to say real quick, as the car is turning actually onto Elm Street, you look at the Queen Mary, and in the back you got Agent Hickey, right, you know, he's setting up, the seat is definitely, it's gotta be an adjustable seat on the back or something, because he's setting up way high, and Bennett is sitting in the car, and he's in a position to jump out of that car, As it just had turned.
In the Willis picture, if you go back and look at the Willis slide, it looks like he's ready to jump out of the car before any of the shots even happened.
This had to be prearranged.
Bennett was going to do this.
They had it all scripted out.
Yep.
It had to be short.
Or the other thing is, is Bennett didn't get the memo to just stay his ass in the car.
Right.
And he did like Jackson.
He reacted.
He did like Jackson.
Exactly.
He reacted.
And if we look at something real quick here, if we look at the Zapruder film, we notice how the Zapruder film, you know, the car is about, you know, this big across the screen, right?
Right, right.
At the bottom.
It gets to be about this big across the screen at the bottom.
Why did they do that?
Because they cut out the foreground.
Bennett is on JFK's side.
If he would have ran to get into that car, we wouldn't have seen him in the Zap Bruder film because the Zap Bruder film has been edited down to where it's only about this much of the car.
I mean, even when Doug was chasing.
That's a phenomenon that would occur if it was on a mount, if it was just on a, you know, because the slope of the roadway would take it further down.
I mean, I think that part of the footage, David, was because they had a mounted, you know, camera that wasn't following the limousine.
If you had a handheld camera following the limit, it would never happen that way.
But if you had one on a tripod that is just going, then the limo disappears.
The alternative is that they were wanting to obscure what would be visible in the side of the car.
I don't know what it would be, but I mean, that's an entirely possible alternative.
I can go with that, Jim, but if we go back to where, if we believe it was Abraham Zapruder filming that film, if we believe that, Zapruder had mentioned that he kept the car in the frame the whole way.
So it shouldn't have disappeared.
So it should not have disappeared.
If we believe Zapruder, then the film should not have went from here down to here.
I mean, it just shouldn't have happened.
I'm willing to speculate that in the original film, the limousine stayed in the center.
But in the edited, they took this from the tripod and they put it in there because it worked.
It fit there convenient what they wanted to achieve.
If we look at the Z film, it almost looks like the Z film is done in a layer.
It's got the background, the middle where the cover's at, and then we've got the foreground.
That's right, and they can do that with optical brain and special effect tape, and that's exactly right.
Absolutely.
This extra agent in the vehicle is just mind-numbing!
I mean, that's incredible!
That's just incredible!
What a find!
Been hiding in plain sight.
And we even know his name?
Yeah.
Can we follow up and find out if he ever confided in anyone what he did or what he thought he was doing?
What the hell?
Here's the worst part, guys.
Here's the worst part.
The agent that's standing on the running board right next to Bennett is Landis.
Landis has not come out and said he saw Bennett run to the limo.
He won't.
He'll never has come out and said... David, I don't think Landis even found the magic bullet.
It was Sam Kenny who confided in his name.
Oh, by the way, I found the... I reported this a year and a half ago or more.
Yeah, go ahead, Larry.
No, and I found all the information.
There was a footnote in Somewhere, I think it was in my book or something like that.
It cites the actual, I don't know if you still have the Radio Fetzer blog?
Is that still up?
I imagine Gary's got it.
Okay, I'll have to check that out.
Anyway, yeah, this is the 60th anniversary.
This is rather stunning stuff.
Look, 60 years later, we're still making major discoveries?
I mean, that's just un-effing-believable.
Yeah.
And going back briefly to the conference, you know, I thought it was... Real quick, as Gerardo Rivera would have said in Good Night America, this is heavy.
Yeah.
That's what he said when he showed the Z film, you know, this is heavy.
You want to come back and do your presentation next week?
I'll tell you what.
I have finals.
I haven't told you guys.
I haven't been on a while.
Thank you again for having me on because I enjoy coming on here and sharing the spotlight with you.
I have finals.
I think it would have to be the week after.
Oli and Morningstar want to talk about Files, and Larry is not eager, so I thought I was not.
Yeah, let's just leave it at that.
He's talked about it.
Hey, Gary, Gary, take us out, take us out.
All right, JFK number 290.
Like I said, 60 years later, and we're still finding stuff.
So look, as soon as your finals are over, we're going to have you back on, David.
Appreciate that.
Looking forward to it.
All right, JFK number 290.
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