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Oct. 6, 2022 - Jim Fetzer

01:56:08

The Raw Deal (4 October 2022) with Joe Olson and Allen Burton

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	I need somebody, help!
	Not just anybody, help!
	You know I need someone, help!
	When I was young, so much younger than today, but I never needed anybody's help in any way.
	But now these days are gone, I'm not so self-assured.
	Now I find a gentle mind, I'm open up the door.
	Help me if you can, I'm feeling down And I do appreciate you being round Help me get my feet back on the ground Won't you please, please help me Well, this is Jim Fetzer, your host on The Raw Deal.
	As promised last week, I've invited Joe Olson to join Jerry Burton and me, as Ellen Burton and me, as we talk about how the Twin Towers were demolished.
	I've invited Mark Hightower to join as well, where Mike and I published three articles in 2011 about the destruction of the Twin Towers and the impossibility of it having been done with nanothermite, which has a very limited It would have been incapable of doing that before we turn to those issues.
	However, I'm going to review a couple of the stories of our day and then turn to these issues.
	We'll have a detailed discussion and subsequently take your calls.
	So today, The Raw Deal, Nukes, News, or Nano with Joe Olson, Alan Burton, and Mark Hightower, hoping he will join.
	Russia suggests the U.S.
	destroyed the North Stream, warns against provoking a nuclear war.
	Now, in my opinion, there's just no doubt about it.
	I've already reported how the only nation that had the motive, the means, and the opportunity was indeed the United States.
	Well, there have been the suggestions Russia did it.
	That's simply absurd.
	Russia built a pipeline.
	Russia invested Tens of billions, even hundreds of billions in its construction.
	It's Russia's key to economic commerce with Europe by gas and energy, providing cheap energy.
	Russia doesn't need to blow up the pipeline to cease sending gas to Europe.
	It simply turns off the spigot.
	So this is just part of the ridiculous propaganda coming from the Biden administration.
	And I'd point out, This is a war crime.
	This is actually an act of war attacking Russia, such a vital element and a crime against humanity because it's consigning Europe to a freezing winter.
	The Russian embassy has issued a pair of statements regarding both the war in Ukraine and the recent sabotage of the pipelines.
	On Wednesday last, Russian Ambassador to the U.S.
	Anatoly Anton published an article addressing comparisons between the current situation in Ukraine and the Cuban Missile Crisis of the 1960s.
	I'd lived through it.
	It was quite a time of tension.
	Indeed, I was on active duty in the Marine Corps when it took place.
	Antonov noticed this October will mark 60 years since the Cuban Missile Crisis, when the USSR and the United States were on the verge of a nuclear conflict, and said the time is now to look closer at the foreign policy lessons that two great powers have learned from that dramatic event.
	Recently, the ambassador pointed out, American media outlets and politicians have been repeatedly warning Russia may soon use nuclear weapons in comparing the situation to the Cuban Missile Crisis.
	However, Antonov claimed, the experts are wrong about the comparison and are ignorant of history and misinterpret the current state of affairs.
	Well, when you're comparing two cases and drawing analogies, there need to be more similarities than differences, or there need to be an absence of few but crucial differences, what I expect to be the case here, plus analogies are never taken to be certain.
	They're always only probable.
	Continuing, he described how global treaties signed over decades have sunk into oblivion, the U.S.
	has abandoned them, and the United States has consistently searched for opportunities to achieve global military dominance.
	NATO forces have also crept closer and closer to Russia's western border, despite Pax, the most solemn promises and agreements to refrain from doing so.
	Regarding the decision to wage war in Ukraine, the Russian ambassador asked several rhetorical questions, including What did the United States do to ensure the implementation of the Minsk agreements?
	And why did Washington keep silent for eight years and not pull Kiev up when Ukrainians and Russians were killed in Donbass?
	He continued, how could it ignore the terrible tragedy in Odessa when several dozen were burned alive?
	Where were the international humanitarian institutions?
	Why did the administration prioritizing human rights allow such crimes to take place?
	These are all fair questions that have yet to be answered.
	Today it is obvious that the United States is directly involved in the military actions of the Kiev regime.
	Washington is openly building up the supply of lethal weapons to Ukraine and provides it with intelligence.
	They jointly plan military operations against the Russian armed forces.
	Ukrainians are being trained to use NATO military hardware in a fight.
	Russia said it feels as though it's being tested to see how long it will remain patient and refrain from responding to blatantly adversarial actions and attacks.
	The ambassador also claimed media coverage of Russian nuclear threats is a sham and that Putin would only use such weaponry in a defensive manner, which would strictly adhere to the 2014 military doctrine and 2020 basic principles of state policy on nuclear deterrence adopted by Russia.
	After Russia officially acknowledged the recent referendum to unbask Ukraine, in which citizens voted to become a part of Russia, Putin's government will treat any attacks on that area as an attack on the motherland.
	This has, of course, come to pass, and Putin has made it very clear in his magisterial speech of a few days ago, which you can find published in full on my blog at jameshfetzer.org.
	Antonov also criticized American military planners who think a limited nuclear conflict is possible, warning nuclear attacks would rapidly escalate to a global scale.
	The ambassador concluded stating he wants to believe Russia and the Americans have not yet approached a dangerous threshold of falling into the abyss of nuclear conflict, with a caveat, it is important to stop threatening us.
	Today it is difficult to predict how far Washington is ready to go in exacerbating relations with Russia.
	Will the U.S.
	ruling circles be able to give up their plans aimed at wearing out our country with a prospect of its dismemberment?
	The Russian embassy in Washington issued the official statement suggesting the Biden administration intentionally sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines, about which I believe there is no good reason to doubt.
	First, The embassy noted the fact that U.S.
	politicians have already blamed Russia for the pipeline sabotage.
	Former CIA director John Brennan also peddled the theory on CNN.
	It was embarrassing to see him do this, but then Brennan has always been a foul stench on the American intelligence.
	He's been in collaboration with Obama and sabotaging the United States in many different ways.
	Perhaps they have a better view from the top of the hill, the embassy sarcastically wrote, but if that is the case, they must also have seen the U.S.
	warship's activities at the very site of the Russian infrastructure disruption just the day before.
	The Russian continued or noticed drones and helicopters fly over there or observe U.S.
	Navy exercises with underwater explosions that have been conducted in the same area some time ago.
	Finally, they should have recalled the promises made by President Biden to bring an end to the Nord Stream 2 project.
	Biden in February 2022.
	If Russia invades, then there will no longer be a Nordstrom 2.
	We will bring an end to it.
	Reporter, but how will you do that exactly since a project is in Germany's control?
	Biden, I promise you we will be able to do it.
	The Russian embassy to the U.S.
	also asked Who benefits from the pipeline's rupture?
	Explaining, the US decided to squeeze out Russia as a competitor using non-market methods and sanctions.
	The MBC said, decades-long energy trade between Moscow and Europe has long turned into an eyesore for Washington strategists who are unable to offer a decent alternative to reliable and no less importantly cheap supplies of gas.
	America's endgame, according to Russia, is to get its allies hooked on an expensive and environmentally unfriendly liquefied natural gas needle.
	Chinese and Ukrainian companies are producing trade LNGs are suspiciously enough the exact ventures Hunter Biden chose to dive into leading up to the war in Ukraine.
	Since I have Joe and Alan here, I want to take advantage of their presence for their comments.
	It seems to me Joe, the Russian ambassador has it exactly right, and of course we have further confirmation this was an act of the United States.
	A crime against humanity as I see it, because Europe is going to pay a harsh and severe penalty this winter.
	Your thoughts?
	Yes, well actually the Cuban Missile Crisis is a very good analogy for where we are today, because NATO in 1959 started installing nuclear weapons in Turkey, right on the border with Russia.
	In April 17th through 20th, 1961, the U.S.
	invaded Cuba with the Bay of Pigs.
	Absolutely 100% a CIA operation.
	Then the Cuban Missile Crisis happened October 16th through 29th of 1962.
	So Russia responded in the only way that they could to the aggressive actions of our rotten CIA, our rotten FBI, our rotten DOD, and our rotten NATO.
	So, yeah, it's exactly analogous, because we have the same rotten CIA, rotten FBI, rotten NATO, and rotten DOD running this op, and it's absolutely insane.
	A little side note, Saudi Arabia today announced that they're going to cut oil production by 2 million barrels per day.
	So, you know, enjoy your $5 a gallon gasoline as you vote for FJB again, you lame-brain idiots.
	You're mentioning this specific date reminds me I was not commissioned in the Marine Corps until June, so it was just a couple months thereafter that I began serving four years as a commissioned officer in the Marine Corps.
	Alan, your thoughts about what the Russian ambassador had to say?
	Well, this is embarrassing, Jim, because it's like we're expected to pretend like we never heard these bold statements that were put out by both Biden and Newland.
	They signaled what they would do.
	And now they're expecting all of us to have forgotten that.
	And, you know, it's incredible.
	It would be as if, you know, someone the day before someone else's murder had threatened that person.
	And then they expect not to be the primary suspect.
	This is ridiculous.
	But, unfortunately, most people, they don't pay attention, they probably don't even know that these statements were ever made.
	It's embarrassing.
	I'm glad the Russians are reminding the obvious.
	You make very good points, Joe, yes.
	Oh yeah, and to add insult to injury, now they're talking about destroying the TurkStream pipeline, which would be the last lifeline of Russian gas going into Europe.
	So, if you haven't realized it, Europe, the United States is at war with Germany, Italy, France, England is sitting on the sidelines hoping that they can still be our good buddy buddies after they kill the rest of the white people on the whole continent.
	But this is insane!
	And you people in Europe need to wake the hell up and you need to kick these Nazis out of your country.
	You need to denazify and demilitarize Europe the same way that Putin is doing to Ukraine.
	Because you're run by the most evil people in the history of this planet.
	Yeah, ultimately, who benefits?
	It's the New World Order and the Great Reset, which is out to depopulate Earth by up to...
	Seven and a half billion souls.
	I mean, that's the agenda that's being promoted here.
	And there's a Russian response, by the way.
	Russia deploys the doomsday nuclear ocean drones as global economic meltdown.
	Actually, it's this massive submarine, the largest that has ever been constructed, which Which can carry up to eight apocalyptic drone torpedoes.
	These super weapons are actually nuclear-armed underwater drones designed to hide themselves off the coast of a targeted nation and detonate their nuclear warheads upon receiving satellite commands, generating highly destructive radioactive tsunamis That inundate coastal areas of the targeted country, rendering them uninhabitable over, say, only 250 years.
	Imagine one of these going off in the Atlantic, off the east coast of the United States, and destroying everything from Boston to Washington, D.C., including, of course, New York City.
	American commerce and finance would grind to a halt.
	The economy would collapse.
	The K329 Belgorod submarine is the only of its kind in the world.
	Reportedly can travel at a speed of 125 miles an hour using a secret highly advanced propulsion system.
	That's fantastic!
	Officially, the Poseidon drones carry two megaton warheads, but we received information from other sources indicating Russia can build it up to 100 megaton, over 6,000 times more powerful than the atomic bomb used on Hiroshima.
	Upon detonation, such a warhead would unleash a truly massive tsunami that could potentially reach heights of 500 feet or more, moving at hundreds of miles per hour before crashing onto intended coastal targets.
	Radioactive water would deposit radioisotopes into everything it touches, rendering the affected areas uninhabitable for at least three centuries—10 half-lives of CS-137, for your information.
	Notably, America's most important power centers—government, finance, military, and trade—would are all located near the coast.
	Just one poiseidon detonation on the east coast could take out America's government, finance, and military hubs, while a single detonation off the coast of California could take out America's largest trade ports and transport hubs.
	Here we have some information about the submarine, the world's largest, has compartments to launch mini-subs and undersea drones.
	The submersible drones it launches are 20 feet long, 3 feet in diameter, have a range of 27 miles and weigh 4 tons.
	Boisean nuclear drone torpedoes have a length of 79 feet, speed of 70 knots, and a two-ton megaton warhead, though as we've been told, it can be increased.
	Meanwhile, the sub itself has a length of 603 feet, weighs 30,000 tons, has an enumerated range.
	Here it says a speed 32 knots, Which of course contradicts that claim it can go up to 125.
	That sounds fantastic to me.
	Meanwhile, it was built using exotic technology that allows it to achieve almost unimaginable speeds.
	So perhaps the other speed of only 35 knots was for public consumption, while it actually can attain this much greater speed while still operating covertly.
	As the Sun reports, the revolutionary design based on the Oscar II-class cruise missile subs has been extensively modified to specialize in covert missions.
	The sub was made its giant length so it could carry devastating nuclear-tipped moisside and torpedoes, Guided by artificial intelligence, a nuke can be dropped onto the seabed by a sub or a ship and zoom past underwater defenses at reported speeds between 70 and 125 knots, again greater than the chart suggests.
	Christopher A. Ford, a former Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Non-Proliferation, told CNN that a torpedo is being designed to inundate U.S.
	coastal cities with radioactive tsunamis.
	No country in the world has any defense against radioactive tsunamis, by the way.
	It's now abundantly obvious the United States played a significant role in the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines, attacking civilian infrastructure targets in an effort to isolate Germany from Russia's energy supply and prolong the war.
	The United States, as Putin pointed out in the speech that I have archived on my blog at jameshfetzer.org, has a long history of using weapons of mass destruction to target civilian infrastructure and civilian populations, including
	The use of atomic bombs in World War II and the deliberate destruction of civilian infrastructure in Iraq during Operation Devastator, which killed well over half a million Iraqi civilians, as an aside,
	I interviewed Christopher Busby, who's an international expert on weapons and cancer, who had gone to Fallujah to discover why they'd had this massive proliferation of genetic abnormalities, babies with no brains, two heads, no arms, no legs, and all this expected.
	That it would be a result of the use of depleted uranium as anti-tank weapons, since depleted uranium is the densest substance known to man.
	He was surprised to discover it was actually from enriched uranium of a new class of tactical nuclear weapons the United States was deploying in Iraq in violation of international law.
	Now the U.S.
	is resorting to cutting off the energy supply needed by millions of Europeans as they face a winter of food scarcity and freezing temperatures, with as much as half of Germany's industrial operations facing shutdowns due to a lack of natural gas.
	Ammonia production is already down 70%, industrial metal smelting operations are down 50, and those numbers are weeks old.
	Putin explains the U.S.
	has set a precedent—the precedent justification for nations that are faced with the threat of destruction to use nuclear weapons in their own defense and to strike civilian targets if needed.
	Note, Putin deems the West to be a satanic cabal of criminals, while his defense head, Mendeleev, describes the West as the anti-Christ civilization that must be brought to its knees for humanity to survive.
	Thus, it appears Putin is preparing a large-scale nuclear first strike against the West, but only if, I say, he's convinced that NATO is going to attack Russia, in which case a preemptive attack is permissible under international law.
	Planning the complete destruction of Western nations like the U.S., the U.K., Germany, France, Canada, and other superweapons like the Boise nuclear apocalypse drones are clearly designed to achieve that goal, while shorter-range nuclear-capable continental missiles such as the Isklander would be unleashed to strike European cities such as Berlin, Paris, and London.
	I also add, by the way, That the Russians have made it very clear that if they're forced to resort to nukes to defend themselves, it will not be restrained to Ukraine and that London will be target number one, in many ways echoing Muammar Gaddafi's observation that if you want to bring an end to international terrorism, simply drop a cruise missile on the city of London.
	Another important point, by the way, is Democrats want a nuclear war before the November 8th midterm elections because they don't want to have to endure defeat at the ballot box.
	They need a nuclear emergency to delay the election and invoke a kind of martial law to push nationwide gun confiscation.
	This is the only way they can remain in power and continue their agenda of child mutilations, transgenderism, surgery, criminalizing their political opposition, FBI, DOJ weaponization, censorship, vote rigging, money laundering, such as money for Ukraine.
	This is pretty damn fascinating stuff.
	Joe, let me ask your thoughts about this as well.
	Yeah, okay.
	Well, first of all, I'd be a lot more worried about the dozens of nuclear suitcase bombs that Israel has stationed all around the world in order to take us out, and that they're just going to try to frame Putin as doing this with his nuclear submarine.
	So that's item number one, kids.
	Item number two is, I had a good friend of mine who served on an aircraft carrier during the Vietnam War.
	This is the Vietnam War, kids, 40 years ago, okay?
	50 years ago?
	Anyhow, he said they were doing a test with a U.S.
	nuclear submarine shadowing the fleet and did the fleet have any capability of stopping it?
	So they launched a missile as a test and it was a dummy missile And the, as he said, minutes after they launched this missile, this anti-submarine missile, they had an emergency communication from the submarine in test now.
	The submarine surfaced and the missile was with a dummy warhead was sticking in the conning tower of the submarine.
	This is a technology we had available 50 years ago.
	Now, if you want to do a little bit of additional outside-the-box thinking, go to the National Data Buoy.
	B-U-O-Y for those who are Spelling Impaired Center.
	These are the ocean meteorological buoys that are set all around the ocean.
	They've got a map of them, which is probably a tiny fraction of the ones that are available.
	In addition, they've got hydrophones absolutely everywhere.
	So to claim that we just have no idea where this dangerous nuclear submarine is going to go and it's going to blow us up, Wake the hell up, you people!
	This is idiot bullshit!
	They're trying to set us up so that they can stage a nuclear attack against us and claim it was Russia so that we can launch against Russia so we can kill 95% of the people on the planet because that's what they planned on doing for 150 years when Pike said that they were going to have three world wars.
	The first one was going to be in Europe in 19 15.
	The second one was going to be in Europe in 1945.
	And the third one was going to be in 1922.
	Wake the hell up.
	These son of a bitches are wall-to-wall evil.
	We'll be right back after this break.
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	Well, before I invite Alan's comments on this very same report, I want to mention we just learned from Antiwar.com that Zelensky has signed a decree ruling out peace talks with Putin as impossible. - That's a ball.
	Zelensky says talks could only be held with Russia when there's a new president.
	Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday signed a decree that ruled out any talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin, declaring they would be an impossibility.
	The decree was first put forward by the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.
	According to the Ukrainian newspaper, Ukraineska Pravda, the degree states the impossibility of holding negotiations with the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin.
	Now this, it seems to me, is reflective of Zelensky's role as a stooge of the New World Order.
	Jacob Rothschild has declared That Vladimir Putin is an enemy of the New World Order, and also that the New World Order cannot move forward without Ukraine.
	In my opinion, this means Vladimir Putin is waging a war for all of humanity, not just for Russia, but for all of humanity.
	And yet, the Great Reset moves forward apace with astonishing rapidity, seemingly right on schedule.
	Alan, your thoughts?
	All of the above.
	So let's go back to that report on the Russian sub.
	To your guys' knowledge, had you heard of this Russian sub being reported before?
	This kind of Russian sub?
	Yes.
	You have?
	Okay, so this is nothing new.
	Well, no, but that is being put out to sea now.
	I think this is, you know, Putin has repeatedly sought to telegraph that Russia is prepared to fight a fight that the West is not prepared to fight.
	Russia doesn't want the war the West does, but I have no doubt whatsoever Russia would effortlessly prevail over the U.S.
	and NATO combined.
	So he's doing everything he can to forestall What now is appearing all but inevitable, Alan.
	I think he's really trying to signal that this is a form of insanity, but we don't have any rational, we don't have any adults in Washington.
	It's an amateur hour here in the Capitol, whereas the Russians are serious, professional, and know exactly what they're doing.
	Your further thoughts?
	Yeah, so the reason I ask is because I was wondering, do you think the purpose You know from our Western press and having this article was to inform us or was it to scare monger?
	Oh, scaremonger, 100%.
	Yeah, that's all they want to do.
	And continue to saber rattle.
	Like, I guarantee you, they know exactly where that sub is.
	They know exactly when they can take it out.
	So there's not an issue of threat from that standpoint, unless Putin decides to do first strike.
	So now we're down to a game of chicken between a group of idiots that are playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun with the whole rest of humanity at stake.
	It's absolutely insane.
	Yeah, thanks, Joe.
	Very, very good.
	Well, now we're going to discuss the destruction of the World Trade Center, in particular the Twin Towers.
	We know Building 7, the third skyscraper, 47 stories tall, it would have been the largest building in some 35 states, but it was surrounded by 210-story buildings, so that it appeared relatively modest by comparison.
	I want to give a summation of my take on the situation here, and then invite first Alan and then Joe.
	Here are some key points, as I've reported on many occasions.
	Jet fuel fires, even if they burn hot enough and long enough, would cause the buildings to sag and gradually collapse.
	Actually, they wouldn't collapse very far because of the massive resistance provided by the floors.
	It would only be partial and asymmetrical.
	Jet fuel could not have ejected 300 tons up at a 45 degree angle and 600 feet outward into the winter garden.
	To explode steel, an explosive needs to have a detonation velocity of 6,100 meters per second.
	To explode cement, a detonation velocity of 3,200 meters per second is required.
	Kerosene has a detonation velocity of only 1,600 meters per second and therefore could not have done it.
	Nanothermite is only roughly half as powerful with a detonation velocity of only 895 meters per second, while mini-nukes would have had the observed effects.
	Now, Alan, I'd like you to just give us a general response, and then I'll turn to Joe, and we'll go back and forth.
	Your thoughts?
	Yeah, sure.
	So a couple days ago, I finally, for the first time, was able to read Mark's work, and I have to give kudos to him because it was very rigorous, very well done.
	I never, I wasn't very familiar with the issues with detonation velocity.
	He, one of the, one of the points, or one of my answers initially, in trying to defend the nanothermite, was that you could put in an organic additive to it that might be like an explosive, and that would help give it the explosive ability and increase the detonation velocity.
	There are papers on this.
	The problem is I think you can get up to like, you know, 2000 meters per second.
	But, you know, Mark makes a good point, you know, why go through all the effort to do that if all you have to do is just use the initial, you know, an RDX explosive in the first place.
	What is it beyond that?
	So, yes, Alan, go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, so that's one of my first points.
	And, you know, some of the other points we'll get into later.
	But I think one of the things that I'd like to discuss is in terms of the mechanism by which a mini nuke or mini nukes would take down the building.
	So one of the first questions I have is that the initial explosion that occurs Um, which, you know, is supposed to be, you know, after, you know, the plane strikes the building.
	What do we believe caused that explosion?
	Because that explosion, to me, looked like a Hollywood-type explosion.
	It's very directional in nature.
	It's not symmetric, you know, from the building.
	It has, you know, the kind of pyrotechnics that you would expect from a Hollywood film, where it has a nice billowy, you know, white cloud.
	It glistens.
	It almost has a metallic sheen below the white cloud.
	And that does look like a thermite explosion to me.
	But I just wanted to have your thoughts on that.
	You're talking from the plane strikes?
	Yeah, I'm not talking, well, the explosions that occur subsequent, you know, directly subsequent to the impact, the supposed impact of the plane.
	There were two that took place here.
	Right.
	You had the explosion from pre-positioned explosives, may have been jet fuel, napalm, whatever, that caused the spectacular fireballs that were extinguished in about 15 or 20 seconds.
	But at the same time, they had explosions in the sub-basement that were designed to drain the sprinkler system.
	We have seismic reports from both the explosion in the sub-basement in the north and in the south tower.
	Willie Rodriguez, when he came here to Madison to give a talk and I discussed over dinner afterwards, Kevin Barrett was also with us about how we watched the water level rise in the sub-basements, and then I realized the reason for those was to drain the sprinkler system so they couldn't extinguish the very modest fires that remained after those spectacular fireballs had been consumed.
	And by the way, if I didn't mention last week, there was a hand-eye coordination problem here, so that in fact these explosions took place before the actual physical impact, or apparent physical impact, since these were actually images of the planes with a building, by 14 and 17 seconds, so that Gordon Ross and Craig Furlong published a brilliant piece called Seismic Proof 9-11 Was an Inside Job.
	Given that discrepancy, even if those had been real planes, they could not have been responsible for these explosions in the sub-basement.
	Joe?
	Yeah, interestingly enough, I was traveling through Central Texas this weekend.
	I came across a conservative protest at one of the little town squares, and I stopped and talked to one of the ladies.
	And, you know, we got to talking about global warming, green energy, and peak oil.
	And I hate to brag, but I'm one of the best experts in the whole entire frickin' nation on those three subjects.
	But I'm also very well-versed as a trained structural engineer on 9-1-1, 9-11.
	And so I mentioned something about that, and she had previously invited me to be a guest speaker at their conservative club.
	And I said, well, how many members do you have?
	Oh, we got about 150 that show up at our meetings.
	I'm like, oh, that's a large enough crowd that I would drive over here and do a presentation for you.
	And then I mentioned something about 9-11.
	She goes, oh, You're one of those people who leave, it was an entire job, I'm not ever going to talk to you again.
	It's like, oh, oh.
	She goes, I know that the Arabs did it because I saw the planes fly into the building.
	I said, oh, yeah, you saw the planes fly into these two 1350 foot tall buildings indicated by the three red arrows on this diagram.
	And they both fell in 14 seconds.
	You saw that, right?
	She goes, yeah, I did see that.
	I saw it on TV.
	I said, well, what about this building?
	This is building number 7.
	47 stories tall.
	It wasn't hit by an airplane.
	You didn't see an airplane hit it.
	And it fell in 7 seconds.
	She goes, I don't want to hear about that.
	I go, what about building 6?
	It has a giant hole in the center.
	It looks like a rectangular volcano.
	You didn't see a plane hit that.
	She goes, I'm not talking to you anymore.
	Yeah, that's what we're up against.
	Even the freaking conservatives cannot wrap their minds around the amount of evil that we put up with for 21 freaking years from these Nazis.
	Absolutely insane.
	It's a perfect example of cognitive dissonance.
	Any evidence that contradicts or goes against your core beliefs, in this case, that the government basically is here to protect the American people, is rejected or suppressed.
	Alan, I'm certain you've encountered this yourself as well.
	Yeah, all the time.
	It's family members, friends, you know, people who, under other circumstances, They would be easily convinced with the science.
	It's too hard for them to overcome.
	Jim, one other point that I wanted to raise was I was reading another 9-11 book, or maybe I was looking at a documentary, but there was actually one fellow who made it out of one of the upper floors.
	I think it was around the 104 or thereabout.
	And he also had said that he experienced an explosion that occurred On that upper floor before the impact of an airplane and I found that to be quite surprising.
	You know, I'm familiar with really Rodriguez.
	But he had felt an explosion even at that floor.
	So I didn't know if you were aware of that, but I found that to be, you know, remarkable and noteworthy.
	Yeah, no, I'm glad you mentioned, Joe, your comment.
	Oh yeah, there was a number of explosions that were required to pull this scam off.
	First of all, there was one elevator shaft, elevator number 50, and it was in the absolute center of the core with 50 elevator shafts and three concrete line stairway shafts that were all NFPA fire approved concrete line shafts that went up from the basement all the way up to the top of the building.
	But only one of those, the center freight elevator, went from elevator floor basement level 6 all the way up to the 110th floor.
	So, in order to be able to open up the cone for destruction in the center of the building, they needed to blow out the intermediate blocks that were in some of those elevator shafts.
	Because you would go up elevator to a landing floor and then you'd get an elevator to go up to the higher floors.
	And so they needed to blow out those shafts, number one.
	Number two, because they'd set nuclear bombs in both of these buildings, they didn't want stray gamma rays to fly through tunnels and shafts that were connecting the buildings, and so they needed to blow those up.
	So those were the explosions that occurred prior to the demolition of the buildings.
	Kids, I have studied this more extensively than probably anybody you're ever going to hear, other than maybe some of the guys at Veterans Today.
	I read the Nuclear Weapons Employment Doctrine and Procedures Field Manual 101-31 declassified in 1978.
	This is on the deployment of nuclear weapons in war zones.
	I read the FEMA report, and here's the FEMA report.
	This is how the buildings were actually built and designed, and this is available online.
	Nuclear Weapons by Andre Gosper.
	This is February 2008.
	I read the FEMA report.
	And here's the FEMA report.
	This is how the buildings were actually built and designed.
	And this is available online.
	In the FEMA report, they show the different floor sections.
	And they showed the exterior wall sections.
	This was a Van Der Reer Trust building, which had the main structural loads were carried by the exterior of the building.
	The exterior of the building included 14 by 14 square box columns.
	Again, FEMA document, look it up, 403 Chapter 2.
	These were constructed with Wall panels that were three stories high.
	They have a horizontal segment, which is 52-inch high, 2-inch thick plate steel that were welded to each of those box columns.
	They were then in-bolted, and you can see the splice joint where they were connected together.
	And then, as you go through the building, I'll show you another diagram that shows a little bit more detail of how this this is a floor plan drawing from FEMA 103.
	It shows the shear pin ties that were looped through the top cord of the bar joists, we'll get to in just a second, and then welded to the outside plate girders.
	Joe, I want you to know I've got the whole, you know, Palmer report here, the diagrams for us to discuss.
	But when you're talking about the construction, I'm flipping down to where I have photographs of the construction of the towers, which were this magnificent tube within a tube design.
	So you're talking about these external steel Support well yeah because you couldn't have anything without the plane penetrating the outside of the building so tube within a tube is getting beyond where we need to discuss because you had absolutely zero ability of a plane being able to puncture the outside of that building.
	Oh yes I understand but we have an audience that needs to appreciate somebody.
	Well that's why we're that's why we're doing the video presentation.
	Now this particular drawing on the FEMA drawings shows that two of these panels, complete panels, were blown out of the face of the building to create the Roadrunner.
	You see him right here in this second drawing, and this the one above is figure 215, so I'm guessing this is FEMA figure 216.
	Two complete panels.
	Now, those panels were actually Again, the exterior buildings.
	Like I showed you in the floor plan, they were connected to the inside of the building with...
	Again, the exterior buildings.
	This is my article, Unequivocal 911 Nukes.
	And then this shows a section of the exterior of the building.
	You had bar joists that were on four foot on centers, and the bar joists were connected top and bottom to the exterior plate girder, as well as having the loop hairpin connection, which is connected to this upper bar joist code right here, welded to the outside and then poured which is connected to this upper bar joist code right here, welded to the outside The only way- Just take a deep breath and let me explain part of what you're explaining in detail greater than the audience can absorb.
	You had a tube with it, a tube design, where you had the 47 massive core columns at the center you can see here in the construction.
	And then you had the 230 external steel support columns, which were connected to the core columns by steel trusses Joe is describing here.
	That had V-shaped grooves in them that were four inches deep that were then filled with concrete to the level of four inches and because of the groove in some areas that concrete was four but other eight inches deep and because the buildings were 208 feet on the side that meant each floor Represented a steel truss and an acre of concrete on a steel truss.
	The steel was thinner from the bottom up.
	It was six inches thick in the sub-basement, then five, four up to the top, only a quarter inch thick.
	And of course we know the devastation that was wreaked.
	It was just astonishing as though all and only WTC designation buildings were virtually thoroughly destroyed.
	Now, Joe, continue.
	Yes, the only way you could get that pattern of destruction on the exterior of the building is if they had gone in and cut the in-bolt connections between your vertical box columns, cut the connections of all of the floor joists, and cut all of the splice connections on all three floors for each of those two panels that were blown out in both of the buildings.
	And so there again, you had to have shape charges that were planted against those plate steel to blow them out of the building.
	And thank you, Steve Diek, for showing me the photos of that when Jim and I debated you back in 2016.
	And you could clearly see from one of the panels that was laying down on the ground next to the Eastern Orthodox Trinity Church that was right next to the Trade Center buildings.
	You could see one of these three-story panels.
	You could see the in-built connections.
	Which were had no shear lines around them.
	You can see the acetylene cut torch connections for the floor joist connections, and you can see that they had removed all of the splice bolts without any of the splice bolts having a shear based on the It's just like being shot in the forehead and having your brains blow out of the back of your head.
	Pretty obvious.
	You're not shot in the back of the head and have the brains blow out of the back.
	These panels were cut loose by the Joe, just a bit of refinement.
	It was a gelatin group.
	Israelis in the weeks prior to the event on abandoned floors inside the building.
	They had shake charts that blew those two holes in the side of the building.
	Joe, just a bit of refinement.
	It was a gelatin group.
	We had 200 Israeli Mossad agents who were here in the United States on passports that were supposed to be art students, and whole groups of them were in the North and the South They're performing external art performance.
	I mean, they were actually doing stuff outside of these monster buildings, and I believe they were actually prepping the building in various ways for the explosions that were necessary before the nuclear detonation would take place, but also, I think, preparing those panels to be blown out
	According to Steve, it was using a rocket fired at each of the buildings, but it may have had an alternative explanation of charges inside after they weakened.
	But the idea that those whole panels would come out just in those shapes, Joe, is really quite striking and even ridiculous unless you recognize this was all contrived.
	Alan to get a few words in before.
	Yeah, we'll come back to you, Joe.
	We're going to hit a heartbreak, and I want Alan to have a few words.
	Okay, so I just want to make sure that we're, I understand everything.
	So there were initial explosions that occurred before the initiation of the collapse.
	We believe that those were non-nuclear induced, is that correct?
	Yes, and they were not thermite.
	Thermite is an incendiary, yeah.
	Yeah, okay, so all right, so Okay, so now, one of the problems that I have with the nuclear is, do we expect that you have nukes on different floors?
	No, no, no.
	We're going to go through the Palmer Report.
	One nuke in each of the buildings in the sub-basement, actually, just at the rock level.
	I've got diagrams.
	We'll go through them, Alan, when we return from the break, because Joe can take us through.
	But I think you're going to like what you see.
	There was a time When I myself entertained the notion that there were various mini-nukes in various positions, but I think that turns out to be untenable.
	Exposure to one might set off the others.
	It would be awkward to control.
	And there's a more elegant solution that Palmer came up with that we will review that may alleviate some of your concerns.
	More you'd like to add before we hit the break?
	Okay.
	Yeah, I just, you know, in my mind, to me it's almost like an entropic problem.
	How do you generate all the energy near the base of the building, have the energy go up without destroying The base of the building, and then the energy wave then comes back down.
	Well, it was channeled, but basically, just to put it in a nutshell, you have the destruction of the inner tube from the bottom up, and then the destruction of the outer tube, which we were able to see from the top down.
	But notice, you got massive explosions in every direction from the top down.
	All the floors are remaining stationary, waiting their turn to be blown to kingdom come, in the memorable phrase of Morgan Reynolds.
	And when it's over, The building's been converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust, and there's no residual stack of debris.
	We know from controlled demolition, you characteristically have 12% of the original height floors of debris.
	With Building 7, we had exactly that.
	47 floors, 5 1⁄2 floors of debris.
	Had the Twin Towers been subjected to any kind of collapse, you would have had 12% of 110 or 13 1⁄2 floors, but it wasn't there.
	Father Frank Morales, who was a first responder from St.
	Mark's Episcopal Church, came on my shows twice and was emphatic that both of those buildings were destroyed to or even slightly below ground level.
	And let me add, It's a signature of the use of nuclear devices that they convert material into very fine dust, which was of course just enveloping Manhattan.
	And when subsequently the U.S.
	Geological Survey did dust studies from 35 locations, they found a host of elements, barium, strontium, lithium, lanthanum, tritium, many of which only exist in radioactive form that would not have been there had this not been a nuclear event.
	We'll be right back.
	We'll be right back.
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	And now we return you to your host.
	Well, I want Alan to have a little more opportunity to respond so Joe knows what issues are most bothering him.
	But Joe, I have the whole Palmer diagram set up here that we can review.
	Alan.
	Okay.
	Yeah, so again, just to recap, you know, the problems that I see is, you know, so you have the detonation of the nuclear device occurring in the base of the building.
	And so the energy goes up, I guess, taking out the core columns.
	Is that correct?
	Taking out the core of the structure?
	Yeah.
	And then once it gets to the top, then the energy wave flows over and then goes down and taking out the floors at what appears to be an acceleration that's pretty close to the acceleration of gravity.
	That's the part that I have a hard time with, because that is just so controlled.
	This is all very good.
	Let me, by the way, just give a couple of photographs here that we can look at that make a difference, I think, to our understanding.
	Here's the North TOWIE going through Stages of what we can see from the outside.
	And notice, of course, it has the antenna, which distinguished it from the south.
	Here we have this massive conversion.
	I mean, anyone could think this would be done by dews or nanothermite.
	I think it's really a stretch.
	Notice you've got Building 7 in the foreground.
	But look at this massive conversion.
	Here you have one of the most interesting videos we have, where these are part of the core columns, the remaining core columns of the North, being converted into dust.
	This is a process of demolecularization.
	Judy, of course, argues that it was done using directed energy weapons.
	But as I've already observed, we have some phenomena, such as this 300-ton steel assembly thrown 600 feet upward and outward into the Winter Garden, which is inexplicable on her account.
	Here's this massive, massive enveloping of Manhattan with dust.
	Then we have, here's what I spoke of, the debris ejected at the 45-degree angle.
	This was simply massive into the Winter Garden, where a friend suggests The Winter Garden, where dews and nanothermite go to die.
	Let me add that here are the elements they found in the dust.
	Barium and strontium neither should ever appear in building debris in these quantities.
	The levels never fall below 400 parts per million for barium, never drop below 700 parts per million for strontium, and reach over 3,000 parts per million for both the dust sample taken at Broadway.
	And John Street.
	Thorium and uranium.
	These elements only exist in radioactive form.
	Thorium is a radioactive element formed by uranium by decay.
	Very rare.
	Should not be present in building rubble ever.
	So once again, we have verifiable evidence a nuclear fission event has taken place.
	Lithium.
	With the presence of lithium, we have compelling evidence this fission pathway of uranium to thorium and helium with subsequent declay of the helium into lithium has taken place.
	Lanthanum.
	The next element in the discontinuation pathway of barium, yttrium.
	The next decay element after strontium, further confirming the presence of barium, chromium.
	The presence of chromium is one more telltale signature of a nuclear detonation, tritium.
	A very rare element and should not be found at concentration 55 times normal in the basement of WT6.
	No less than 11 days after 9-11, another indication of the use of nukes.
	Now let me go back, Joe, all the way to the Palmer Report and the various diagrams so you can help to take us through and hopefully resolve the questions that Alan has.
	Where shall I begin, Joe?
	First of all, let me just add this little picture.
	This is from the FEMA 403.
	The shaded rectangular section in the center is concrete lined.
	50 elevator shafts, each one concrete lined, so they're fire rated.
	Three stairway shafts, each one of them completely concrete construction.
	And then you have the barge joists and the Which are the double lines, and then you have the bridging that connects the bottom and top cords to your exterior spandrel sections that we talked about earlier.
	Now, what happens is, we mentioned the detonation velocity, which you easily achieve with a nuclear weapon, of 3200 meters per second for concrete, 6100 meters per second for steel.
	What we haven't mentioned yet is the vaporization temperature.
	Steel melts at 2750 degrees Fahrenheit.
	Thermite burns at 4000 degrees Fahrenheit.
	So it can melt steel.
	It cannot vaporize steel.
	Steel vaporizes at 5180 degrees Fahrenheit.
	So what happens when you have a nuclear explosion sitting on the granite bedrock underneath this building is that you're focusing all of that energy up through the core of the building.
	The first thing that happens is you have a light flash that goes up.
	That's not going to be visible because it's inside a concrete shrouded tube in the center of the building.
	The next thing that happens is a shock wave.
	That's exceeding the detonation velocity of the concrete and steel material that makes up all of that center core of the building.
	So you fragment all of those materials.
	As those materials start to fall down, they're then hit by a heat wave, which is probably in the range of 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit, which is vaporizing that material and blowing it out of the smokestack in the center of the building.
	And as each one of these floors start collapsing, they pull load down through the center of the building, which pulls all of the floors, because they're connected to all of the outside walls, down on top of themselves.
	And as the floors collapse, they collapse in a triangular section.
	The center falls, and then the outside wall is pulled in, and as the outside wall is pulled in, it falls on top of the floor.
	That falls Pancake style on the floor below that creates a triangular air section that gives you your little squib lines all the way down the side of the building which is not planted charges all going off with perfect synchronization all the way down the side of the building.
	It's the floors collapsing and pulling the walls down on top of themselves and that's why the whole building fell down in its own footprint.
	Now, I wrote an article after doing extensive study of 80 articles on nuclear education at Veterans Today.
	I wrote an article called Unequivocal 9-1-1 Nukes.
	This was posted at Veterans Today, July 30, 2019.
	I was contacted by one of my readers.
	They said, you need to read the Palmer Report.
	And that's what Jim's going to pull up right now.
	But here's one of the plates that's in the Palmer Report.
	It shows the granite bedrock.
	It shows the exact sequence.
	This is figure number 625, but there are 50 of these.
	Tell me where to go, John.
	I got step one, opening the building to the height of 350 meters.
	Here we have a connection of the nuclear chimney, weakening the building structure through radiation embrittlement, weakening the building structure through small explosive statics, You are talking about those.
	Weakening the building structure through melting or radiation is step five.
	Nuclear fizzle, neutron plash in the tower, step six.
	Tell me where you want me to stop.
	Oh, okay.
	Well, Yeah, people need to need to pull up this article because it's got three 90-minute videos which have more material than I could possibly explain, number one.
	Number two, it has three 90-minute videos.
	It has 50 PowerPoint slides.
	It's an excellent presentation.
	I was contacted by one of my readers after I posted unequivocal 911 nukes.
	And they said, man, you need to read the Palmer report.
	So rather than, you know, try to go into detail on something that's so exquisitely presented, I sent this to Gordon Duff.
	And he said, man, these people have independently proven everything that we have covered in 80 articles.
	And so they posted it as breathtaking, solving nuclear 911, the Palmer report.
	The only problem with the Palmer report is that these guys missed one particular issue.
	And they mentioned it in one of their slide plates that iron has four stable isotopes.
	And And because I'd been studying nuclear radiation for decades, I knew that iron also had a lot of radioactive isotopes.
	And so I looked at the radioactive isotopes for iron.
	It's like four radioactive isotopes.
	I went, well, that's interesting.
	And so then I said, well, what are the other common elements that are used in steel and concrete construction?
	And that would be carbon, which is used with iron to form steel.
	And then it would also be carbon, calcium, and silicon, which are the major elements that are involved in concrete construction.
	So when you add all of those up, you end up with 102 available isotopes, radioactive, and stable that are inside the building material to absorb the nuclear radiation coming out of this basement level nuclear blast.
	And so I wrote another article that's posted at Veterans Today.
	This one was posted October 6, 2019, called Exposing the NIST-JINGA Game, because as brilliant as the four PhD physicists were in Germany, Denmark, and France that wrote the Palmer Report, and France that wrote the Palmer Report, they did not understand building construction, and they also did not understand the radioactive isotopes portion of this particular puzzle.
	So that's why I wrote this article.
	And there again, it's exposing the NIS Jenga game, October 6, 2019 at Veterans Today.
	That's all very, very good, but I think Alan has a rather well formulated Question or two some issues that are concerning to him, so I'd like him to articulate those again, so you could better address them, Alan.
	Okay, so again, everything, no matter what brought the building down, it was unconventional.
	Okay, I think we can all accept that, and we all know that just from looking at what the explosions that occurred, this was unconventional in the truest sense.
	So, I guess what I'm having a hard time with is, if you were using a nuclear device to bring down a building.
	I don't know, is this some, I don't think this is something you could get right the first time around.
	They've been using nuclear weapons.
	We've had 2,500 nuclear tests since we dropped bombs on Hiroshima.
	We've had ample evidence of exactly how to destroy these things, and we know we had complete construction of the building, so we knew exactly how to predict what was going to happen.
	They only needed like one kiloton bomb, maybe two kilotons at the most, in the basement of each one of those buildings to bring them down in 14 seconds.
	Let me say, I think that the 1993 bombing was actually a test to find out how much explosive was required to destroy the buildings, Alan.
	It wasn't a real effort to destroy them.
	So, look, I don't... Get information, relevant data to how to... Yeah, if you want to amplify your ability to destroy a building, you know, got to know what the Inherent harmonic frequency the building is and if you set a blast off in the basement of the building you can have strain gauges set up through the building you can go well the thing amplifies through the building this way so if we put this particular charge in this particular location
	Same way if you look at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, you get a harmonic frequency, you can completely destroy a suspension bridge with just a 40 mile an hour wind, which it should be able to take.
	But when it hits a resonant frequency of its particular construction, and that's what I'm sure what the 1993 was involved in, But between 93 and 2001, they were able to develop weapons that were so capable of vaporizing the whole entire core of the building and ensuring that the whole entire building would fall that they just didn't even need that because that would just be one extra little element.
	Joe, just one question that rises in my mind listening to your description about the up and then the down.
	You suggested they had the floors that were collapsing, but that would imply there had to be a pile of debris there afterwards when there was none.
	So how do we account for that?
	Well, look at the very last couple of plates in the Palmer Report.
	Pull up the last couple of plates.
	I think they're plate number 6-50 or something like that.
	This is step seven, eight, evaporation of the building core by the plasma needle at approximately 8,000 degrees Celsius.
	This is extremely high temperature, reflecting of the pressure wave and the top breakout of the rain cloud.
	This is pretty damn fascinating stuff.
	Dissolving the upper block.
	This happened with the South Tower And it's virtually never discussed in any public address of 9-11 how that top segment of the South Tower tilted to the side and then was blown.
	Even Steve Jones and his contribution to the David Ray Griffin Edited book about 9-11 and American Empire expresses his astonishment.
	You got the pressure needle evaporating the upper block and the building core being dissolved.
	This is in relation to the South Tower now.
	Notice you have the image of the North in the background.
	Explosion of the facade due to diverted overpressure waves.
	This appears to be very important, doesn't it, Joe?
	Explaining how the external building was blown apart.
	Do you want to dwell on this?
	Yeah, just for a second.
	You see that big orange thing at the basement of the building?
	That's sitting on granite bedrock that's over a thousand feet thick.
	It's eating a hole into the bedrock because this is a plasma bunker buster bomb that we had developed to replace the MOAB 30,000 pound bunker buster bomb.
	It was only effective down to a thousand foot shaft length.
	These things will burrow through Okay, here's another.
	Pressure discharge at the expansion point on the exterior facade.
	what they're doing directly underneath this building.
	The bedrock under the building was acting, number one, as a lens to focus all the energy up through the core of the building, and also as a tamper to slow down the fission rate so that it could have more time to consume material.
	But keep going, because we're gonna get to some really interesting photos towards the end of these slides. - Okay, here's another.
	Pressure discharge at the expansion point on the exterior facade.
	So this is now blowing apart the building from the top down.
	Notice the actual photograph on the left and the diagram to explain exactly what's going on.
	Then we have the breakout of the evaporated black building core and the facade.
	Further destruction taking place as seen in the photographs for the south tower.
	Then we have the free fall of the material first ascending then descending A grazing shot from the ground protecting structures near the ground.
	You tell me when to stop, Joe.
	Standing stem due to the cohesion of hot gases, but you notice that his structure is pretty near complete here.
	Horizontal pyroclastic flow of the radioactive dispersion.
	Fascinating.
	Burning building and cars due to eddy currents.
	This is Judy Wood's Toast at Cars, which are explicable on the basis of the radiation and so forth from the nuclear blast.
	Judy's always insisted that only dews could account for it, but that's wrong.
	Let me, let me interject something right there.
	Yeah, we've got these, we've got these 52-inch thick, I mean 52-inch high, 2-inch thick plate steel that works as a wave guide, and so as you have this nuclear blast blasting out through the core of this building, you're going to have patterns where you will burn one half of a car, and then you will not have the other half touched at all, because that's the radiation coming through the grid on the exterior of the building that's creating these burn patterns around the perimeter.
	So I'm sorry, Judy, you're wrong.
	Okay, carry on.
	Okay, then we go to the next extreme pulverization and rust formation due to crystal destruction.
	Radioactive processes on the ground slow down the cooling off.
	Radioactive processes more slow down the cooling off.
	This is further explanation.
	Further explanation about the cooling off, which of course, I mean, this underground molten metal extends for months, we know, into December.
	Joe, I think that's the last I have here.
	Want me to go back?
	No.
	See if you can zoom in on There should be another plate that's on there.
	You don't have any after this one?
	I don't believe I do.
	I believe these are all I have.
	Yeah, then back to the construction of the building.
	Okay.
	All right.
	In the Palmer Report that's posted at Veterans Today, they show pictures of giant track hose sitting on top of a 150-foot deep hole that was burned into the granite bedrock under the building.
	And in addition to having the same elements that concrete has, granite also can contain phosphorus and sodium, and those will provide an additional 50 available isotopes.
	And then I looked up nickel just because nickel is one of the components in the Stainless steel elevator doors that were on 50 different elevators on 110 floors and not a single elevator door was located in the crash of the building.
	So that adds another 40 or 50 available isotopes.
	So bottom line is the building was a giant isotope sink, number one.
	Number two, all of those elements that are radioactive have a half-life of about 90 days.
	So that's the average.
	And that would account for why the basement of the building was 2,500 degrees hot in December of 2001.
	After having continuous water poured on it for three months because that's the half-life of the materials that are involved and the radioactivity is still in the granite bedrock and it's still outgassing which is why they put reflecting pools over the two main pits at World Trade Center 7 and World Trade Center 1 and 2 in their quote re-envisioned thing.
	Those reflecting pools are there because water is a great gamma ray absorber so it's absorbing that that heat coming heat As a and evaporating it off as water and it's also absorbing the gamma rays so that you can't go over there and pick up the signature.
	But I guarantee you with a proper Geiger counter you could go down to the path underneath the World Trade Center buildings where the subway system is and you could start going up through those stairwells and you would pick up the increasing amount of radioactivity that is still left in the Granite's bedrock.
	And you have all of the first responders and all of the 20,000 downwinders that were in Brooklyn and Bronx that got the wind carry over from the nuclear bombs that had long term 20 year latency period.
	Nuclear caused lung diseases that needed to be rushed to hospitals, put on ventilators and snuffed in order to make sure that nobody was able to put those two and two pieces together.
	The whole thing is just an absolutely gigantic frickin nightmare that we have to endure this and we haven't even touched on the criminal aspects that were the all the different materials that were destroyed to cover up criminal investigations of the crime syndicate or the amount of involvement in the FBI and doing the cover up to keep these things from being exposed.
	Joe, I'm told there's boron in the water at the memorial fountains.
	Would that make sense to deal with the residue of the debolecularization and the radioactive effects?
	If boron could be one of the isotopes, you know, the thing is when you start knocking neutrons and protons off of things, you end up with a whole bunch of different compounds.
	That's where you get these radioactive compounds.
	So I have to take another look at the chemical breakdown of boron.
	It's not heated by the sun.
	It's not heated by SUV carbon dioxide.
	This is the same basic force that causes volcanism on Earth.
	We are sitting on a planet with 259 billion cubic miles of mostly molten rock.
	It's not heated by the sun.
	It's not heated by SUV carbon dioxide.
	It's heated by the fission of over 700,000 cubic miles of uranium.
	Do the math.
	It's like one part per million of uranium inside the Earth's crust.
	So you multiply that times the 295 billion cubic miles and you end up with 700,000 cubic miles of uranium.
	And we also have 1.2 million cubic miles of thorium.
	The majority of that thorium came as a decay product from the uranium, and it's also radioactive.
	And then one of the decay cycles, we have terrestrial decay cycles for uranium that shows 13 daughter elements, but those are just the first round, and those are just terrestrial.
	Under high heat and pressure, you have a lot wider range of available daughter elements that emerge from nuclear Well, if, as I might speculate, Alan's relatively convinced, as am I, that this was a nuclear event.
	I know he has residual questions to address.
	During the break, Joe, I want you to check something I just sent to you from a listener about Susan Lindauer having proof of government foreknowledge of the use of nuclear devices in New York City on 9-11.
	Alan, I want you to take time now before the break to go over what still concerns you the most.
	Yeah, so Joe brought up that we have a lot of history using nuclear devices.
	I don't dispute that, but I think there's The challenge in using a nuclear device to make it look like a building is coming down in a controlled fashion is very different from using a nuclear device to bring down, just explode a building outright.
	So I don't think we should trivialize the mechanistic aspects of how you get this to occur.
	I mean, we can hypothesize how it might occur, but I think we need like some really good engineering, rigorous engineering to explain how this would occur.
	I mean, you talked about the bedrock being melted.
	While this is occurring, you know, you know, if the bedrock is being melted, then the surrounding or everything surrounding the nuclear device should also be disintegrated.
	So, you know, I'm sorry, I'm just having a hard time understanding how, if the explosion emanates from the base of the building, how you're able to get the energy not to take out the base of the building before it goes up to the top of the building and then proceeds to go down again in a very controlled fashion.
	To me, it feels like you're working against the laws of entropy.
	And so I don't know how much Research has been done, if any, on how you would use a single nuclear device to bring down a building in a controlled demolition.
	You know, we have, there's lots of studies.
	Hold that thought, Alan.
	Hold that thought.
	We got one last break and we'll be back with Alan Merton and Joe Holson talking about the demolition of the Twin Towers on 9-11.
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	Even the government admits that 9-11 was a conspiracy.
	But did you know that it was an inside job?
	That Osama had nothing to do with it?
	That the Twin Towers were blown apart by a sophisticated arrangement of mini or micro nukes?
	That Building 7 collapsed seven hours later because of explosives planted in the building?
	Barry Jennings was there.
	He heard them go off and felt himself stepping over dead people.
	The U.S.
	Geological Survey conducted studies of dust gathered from 35 locations in Lower Manhattan and found elements that would not have been there had this not been a nuclear event.
	Ironically, that means the government's own evidence contradicts the government's official position.
	9-11 was brought to us compliments of the CIA, the neocons in the Department of Defense, and the Mossad.
	Don't let yourself be played.
	Read American Nuked on 9-11.
	Available at moonrockbooks.com.
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	Let me observe that, as I explain in my 9-11 special dedicated to Robert David Steele, which you can access from my BitChute channel, Jim Fetzer, just in the search bar, Put in 9-11 special and it'll pop up.
	The reason they had to find an innovative way to destroy the Twin Towers, why they could not use a conventional demolition as they did with Building 7, is because the Twin Towers were built inside what is like a moat, known colloquially as a bathtub, In order to prevent Hudson River water from flooding beneath lower Manhattan, the most valuable real estate in the world.
	So they had to find a way to demolish some buildings without allowing any significant portion of these massive 500,000 ton steel and concrete buildings to damage the moat that would have led to the flooding of all this water below North Manhattan.
	That's what they had to preclude, and it required A great deal of ingenuity, just as it required figuring out how, when I'm convinced they originally planned to use remotely controlled drones to fly into the building, when they discovered you couldn't get a real plane inside the building, they had to fake it.
	And it took a lot of ingenuity to determine how to do that.
	The challenge of figuring out a way to destroy these two massive buildings without damaging the bathtub was a feat, I would say, of engineering genius.
	Now, I think there's really no doubt that this was done as a nuclear event.
	And I've explained the reason they had to do it in a novel way.
	But I also believe Alan has perfectly reasonable questions.
	He's not quite convinced.
	So Joe, having heard Alan's latest reformulation or expression of those concerns, please address them.
	Alan, have you read the 5,000-word Palmer Report, studied the 45 PowerPoint slides, and watched the three 90-minute videos in the Palmer Report?
	No, I think I may have looked at the slides.
	Okay, okay, okay, okay.
	I'm a 38 year registered professional engineer trained in structural engineering.
	I've worked in hundreds of multi-story buildings in 20 different states and I've spent 10,000 hours studying exactly what happened to those two buildings in particular.
	So I think it is possible for an engineer to understand what the hell happened that day.
	And if you're not going to bother to do the homework, then you're really not in a position to question somebody who has done very objective and very detailed analysis of this whole entire thing.
	Now, Jim wasn't able to find it.
	You don't want to come across anybody like Judy Wood who says she won't even talk to you if you haven't read it.
	Which he doesn't even appear to have written, which he doesn't even appear to have written herself, by the way, Joe.
	Go ahead.
	And I'm not selling a $30 book.
	This material is free online at Veterans Today.
	$40 book.
	Okay, yeah, yeah.
	And I've talked Off to Judy Woods.
	I've had dinner twice with Richard Gage.
	I've attended four Architects and Engineers for 9-1-1 Truth premiers.
	I've talked with Alex Jones and his crew of clowns on it.
	I've researched this every way from freakin' Sunday, and I just sent Jim another copy of the Palmer Report, and this is drawing figure number 6-43, schematic of the
	Demolition of the building, and this is formation of the sinkholes under the building, and then figure 6-44 shows the giant track hose sitting up on top of this 150-foot hole, which is where all of the steel... Can you put it up, Joe?
	Can you hold it up so we can see it?
	Because I don't think I'll have the opportunity to get it introduced into the slide set for today.
	Just go ahead and hold it up if you can.
	Yeah, the problem is I can't zoom in on these photos enough to be able to see the detail.
	I can zoom in on them a little bit, but let me see this.
	This might work.
	Yeah, this is guys down inside the hole working to scour off the the bedrock, the metamorphic bedrock granite, and then to put a concrete seal on it so that it didn't leak it.
	And then Yeah, there are a lot of these slides here.
	I see that I didn't have included today, Joe, in the Palmer Report, the more complete one.
	And the problem is, every time I touch this stupid damn tablet, it wants to change screens on me.
	I want to send Alan a link here.
	Because, Alan, I'm glad for us to do more on this, by the way, okay?
	I mean, I want you to be satisfied about what actually happened here.
	And then here's a picture that shows the track hose sitting on top and down inside of the pit where they were digging out the steel, which they immediately sent to the Fresh Kills landfill and then shipped off to China so that nobody would be able to do any analysis of the possible isotope reactions inside the steel as it was being destroyed inside those buildings.
	So, you know, not to denigrate debate, Alan, but you just haven't done a tiny fraction of the amount of study that I have, and so it's not fair for you to say, well, I just don't believe.
	Well, that's fine.
	You believe what you want.
	I believe what I believe based on 50 years experience as a trained structural engineer and 10,000 hours of study of the actual evidence.
	So my beliefs are a little bit more founded than yours are, and just because you don't want to believe that one person is capable of understanding this stuff doesn't mean that one person isn't capable of it.
	And it's not just me, it's the people at Veterans Today.
	Jeff Smith did enormous work on this.
	Ian Greenblatt did some great work on it.
	Jeff Prager.
	Gordon Duff.
	Jeff Prager is the one that translated the videos, and he translated all the documents.
	The written word, all of the slide titles, and he did the translation on the three 90-minute videos from English to German.
	He overdubbed that.
	Yeah, Jeff Prager did an enormous thing to, enormous effort to make this material available to the English-speaking audience.
	Let me add, when I post this show, I'm going to include the link to the Palmer Report, so everyone who's interested can pursue it in greater detail, since I did not have all of the... I'm going to put it into the description for the show when I post it on my Bitshoot channel, which I'll do immediately after this.
	There's your backhose, kid.
	Yeah, this is exactly what happened that they don't want anybody to know, which is why they didn't allow cameras in there, they didn't allow any inspection teams.
	And who was mayor that did all that?
	Oh, that's Giuliani.
	Yeah.
	And they wouldn't even allow Geiger counters, Joe, would you believe?
	I mean, good God!
	They were trying to control everything, again, because they didn't want to expose what happened.
	And then one additional point.
	You know, Richard Gage keeps going on and on about they found nanothermite in the dust.
	That proves nanothermite did it.
	Well, no.
	Nanothermite is not a catalyst.
	It's a reactant.
	So when you burn nanothermite, you don't get nanothermite as a result of that chemical reaction.
	What happens is when you have a steel building that has 2,200 tons of thin aluminum sheeting on the outside so that they would never have to paint it, that when you vaporize the steel and the aluminum,
	You have these individual molecules that are floating around, and they go, gee, there's oxygen in the air, there's aluminum vapors in the air, there's steel vapors in the air, iron vapor in the air, and we can form iron aluminum oxide, which is thermite, and then it will form nanomolecules, and it will fall down to the ground.
	And so any nanothermite you found in the dust was not used to bring the buildings down, and by their own admission, In their book.
	Beyond misinformation, they say that it takes 0.13 pounds of thermite to melt each pound of steel.
	And as we've already discussed, a lot of the steel was not melted, it was vaporized.
	And if you do the 100,000 tons of steel and you multiply times 0.13, that's the amount of thermite you need in addition to the thermite that's going to be blasted around the site as dust.
	It's absolutely insane.
	Yeah, it would have been silly to use nanothermite.
	Niels Herrod, who's this, you know, associate professor of chemistry from the University of Copenhagen, calculated the amount of nanothermite it would take to destroy a twin tower at 29,000 metric tons.
	I mean, that's just absurd!
	I mean, you got a little bomb, a nuclear device.
	What, Joe?
	How many pounds?
	A couple of pounds, fit it in a suitcase, it can do the whole job.
	Why would you get 29,000 metric tons?
	I mean, the whole idea is absurd.
	It's only one-thirteenth as forceful as TNT, and it lacks.
	And you were mentioning this, Alan, that it could be supplemented with something else.
	Well, I've made the point many times.
	They say, well, nanothermite may not be explosive, but it could be combined with an explosive to be explosive.
	And I say this like saying, well, it was actually done with toothpaste, which is also non-explosive, but could be combined with something that's explosive to do the job.
	It's something you're throwing in that's doing the work.
	It's not the nanothermite.
	But Alan, I want you to go ahead and use this opportunity to reiterate what you remain unconvinced about.
	Right, okay.
	So before I go into that, any proponent of a theory should be able to explain the theory.
	Okay, so it doesn't matter what your credentials are, how much time you spend on it.
	If you have confidence in that theory, you should be able to explain it.
	And what I'm asking for, this is a very, very fundamentally important question.
	And to go and say, well, you haven't read this or read that, well, you can't explain it.
	You won't explain it.
	How can I explain three 90-minute videos and 5,000 words of material and 10,000 hours of research in 45 minutes to somebody that hasn't bothered to study any of it?
	God, it's ridiculous.
	Go ahead, Alan.
	any of it let all let all say his piece joe don't be go ahead alan okay so i'm i'm i'm looking at this as objectively as i can now if if there were someone who had a very clear theory about how this would occur in terms of getting the the wave that goes down and that makes it look like a controlled demolition
	if someone had a very clear theory about this then a lot of people would already accept this so you know regardless of you know how many a lot of how many I think a lot of people do, Alan, but I just sent you the link to the Palmer Report.
	I would welcome you taking a look through it, and then we come back and have another session.
	Possibly Mark Hightower might be able to join us, so I think it's pretty obvious.
	Nanothermite couldn't cut it.
	By the way, we do see these cut beams because it does appear thermite or nano was used to cut the beams during the cleanup process, but that wasn't a part of bringing down the building because had it been done with nanothermite, we would have had a collapse and massive pile of debris, possibly not as much as 12% or 13 1⁄2 floors, but I think it would have been a substantially different effect.
	Joe, you would agree, would you not?
	Yes, part of my research on this was to go to a site called spark.com, which had hour-long videos produced by Controlled Demolition, Inc.
	various projects that they did demolitions on worldwide and they did steel structures they did stadiums they did the 33 story tall uh south pottery island reinforced concrete building that was built with a bad foundation that started leaning and they show exactly how you go in remove all the shear walls
	you set all the charges and then they use thermite in controlling those and it's put in a copper channel copper sheet channel and they put the thermite in there thermite has to have a 3 000 degree fuse in order to light the thermite off and those fuses are magnesium and they're a little bit fickle so to be able to do a thousand of them inside one building and have all of them go off flawlessly is absolutely absurd
	but they do show how you can use cut charges on steel box girders and that's exactly what happened on the base of the building where you can see those 45 degree cuts standing on the remaining portions of the exterior vander real trust box columns that are on the outside of the building we're You can see the cut charges, and that forced the building to fall down into its own footprint.
	Joe, let me raise this point.
	In photographs we have of the gelatin group, you see all these boxes of fuse holders.
	Now, it seems to me you're talking about what those fuse holders were for.
	Think of box after box of fuse holders in this, you know, with a gelatin group inside both of the towers where they were.
	And they were doing preparation.
	And when you talk about all these fuses that needed to be ignited, I think that must have been what those fuse holders were for.
	Would that not fit?
	Yeah, you had 50 elevators.
	Otis had installed the elevators.
	They had maintained the elevators for 30 years and then suddenly they were fired.
	A company that had never had any history of working on elevators was suddenly given the contract by Silverstein to come in and do elevator maintenance.
	So they had access.
	You get on top of those elevators and you can go up and down floor by floor on top of the elevator.
	And plant those charges inside on those columns that are exposed inside the they had fireproofing on them, but they were able to access them so that they could cut the columns from the inside.
	So yeah, they probably did plant a bunch of thermite charges in there as well.
	He got rid of Otis because they would never have gone along with this, just as he got rid of the security firm that had been looking after the World Trade Center since it first opened in 1970 and replaced it with an Israeli firm.
	And then he redid his insurance contract, who had this anti-terrorist clause, so he could collect claiming double indemnity, two blaine hits, $4.5 billion on $114 million investment.
	They don't call him Lucky Larry for nothing.
	Alan, I want you to go ahead and just Say your piece once again.
	Okay, so there's a couple of calculations that I'd like someone to make, and it's going to require some assumptions or at least looking up some data on elemental makeup.
	So one of the arguments that's put forth for the strontium and barium is the fact that in electronics and fluorescent lights, there's strontium and barium in those things.
	They even say barium white paint.
	So if you took the amount of strontium that you expected in red phosphors and things like that, made some estimates, Could that explain the levels of strontium that you would have on the ground?
	The other issue is, how much iron do we expect that was vaporized from the building?
	So, if we're looking at the columns, what would be the mass of iron that was vaporized?
	And then, if you assume that it was vaporized, then what would be the approximate concentration of iron that you'd expect to see in the dust?
	One of the claims put out is that the amount of iron that's in the dust is low compared to what you would expect if a lot of the iron had been vaporized.
	Let's see what else.
	Alan, let me just pursue those.
	Yeah.
	What do you contemplate as even remotely the alternative explanation?
	I'm just curious.
	I mean, you know, I'm not asking you to defend it whole hog.
	I'm just saying, I like the theory, but I want it to be rock solid.
	Right.
	So, so in other words, the people, the people who you're, you have to convince are going to be more difficult to convince than I am.
	And, you know, these are sort of the fundamental questions that have to be answered.
	Right, so if you know someone brings up someone answers, you say, you know, you can explain the amount of strontium from things that were in the building, then you have to go in and take a look at okay all the phosphorescent lights, all the electronics, what would be the approximate amount of strontium that one would expect in the dust.
	Um, you know, all those kinds of questions is the amount of you know thorium amount of radium that you see, is it well above the background level that we would expect.
	Okay, so, so those are the kinds of questions that you have to answer.
	No, no, I'm not, I'm not.
	- That are posed as challenges just to round out or flesh out the theory, right? - Exactly, exactly, right.
	So, you know, if you go through- - You're not proposing a wholesale rejection.
	You're saying- - No, no, I'm not, I'm not.
	- These are issues that arise to make it convincing to some who may be aware there are these subtle questions and these are subtle questions in my opinion.
	But I mean, I'm glad you raised them.
	They seem totally legitimate.
	I mean, we just need to test the consistency of the theory.
	Okay, is it consistent with, you know, the things that we can measure.
	All right.
	And again, just because certain elements are observed that are above the normal background doesn't mean that there's necessarily came from the nuclear device.
	It could have been from other things that were in the building.
	Okay, okay, okay.
	You had a 2.2 Richter scale explosion exactly 14 seconds prior to the visual collapse of each of those two twin towers.
	That's not explainable with dews, not explainable with thermite, not explainable with jet fuel.
	And then we also had a comment came in about Susan Landauer.
	Yes, I'm very familiar with her materials.
	She started distributing chatter that was collected from the CIA about the Twin Towers being hit by airlines in May of 2001.
	In July of 2001, you had NASA had a program called Future Wars 2025.
	The only way we can control the population and have continuation of government is through trauma-based mind control.
	You had the two FBI agents in Minneapolis who arrested hijacker number 20, Zakhar Masari, on August 16, 2001.
	They wanted to investigate him.
	They were ordered by their field office not to investigate and not to interrogate the The hijacker number 20.
	Harry Samet and his colleague Colleen Rowlett sent an email to 50 different addresses at the FBI office in Washington, D.C.
	They got one reply back, do not interrogate that prisoner and do not open his laptop.
	There's plenty of videos with Susan Landier explaining how she was framed, held for a prisoner with no charges for over a year, and then released because they knew that she had plenty of evidence to prove everything she was saying.
	And we also have Colleen Rowlett.
	Yeah. - Rowlet, it's Colleen Rowlett.
	I actually spoke with her at a Wellstone event.
	She's a very smart gal.
	Alan, of course, those were the answers to your question.
	Alan's really talking about just a refinement, Joe, about some fine points that one could raise just to ensure the total consistency with all the available evidence based upon some reasonable questions, as I see it he's raising.
	He's not rejecting the idea it was nuclear.
	He's asking for A couple of specific points that as a way of testing the theory as it were.
	I mean, remember Sir Karl Popper emphasized the importance of subjecting theories to a severe test to ensure that it's true.
	And when you subject it to a severe test that it survives, that's a reason to think it may be true or that we just haven't figured out how to test it.
	That's what Alan is doing in my judgment and totally appropriate.
	In a civil case, the burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence.
	In a criminal case, it's beyond reasonable doubt.
	We are beyond reasonable doubt.
	And if Alan wants to sit there and do the how many angels can dance on the head of the pen, it's a useless waste of time.
	Joe, you're missing the whole point.
	This is a sympathetic critic.
	He's a sympathetic critic.
	Who has not done his homework.
	Joe, come on.
	Don't pull this authoritarian bullshit on me.
	It does not.
	It does not.
	it perfectly reasonable and it belittles you and your knowledge it does not it does not Judy to pull a Judy Wood style argument no no no Joe Joe I'm telling you this is the case and no one is a If I say you're arguing the case in the wrong manner, you want to take that to heart.
	Remember, I'm an expert on the nature of argument.
	That's what I did for 35 years.
	And if I'm telling you you're committing an elementary fallacy by making your appeal to authority instead of answering the question, take it to heart.
	I'm not going to be wrong.
	Joe, you've said plenty.
	You've said plenty.
	I'm going to add the bomber report, and Alan, if you get a chance, take a look at it and see if you find it more convincing.
	Joe's said plenty, so I want Alan for you to have the opportunity for the words here, final words here.
	Alan.
	Yeah, so, okay.
	So again, I don't know where you would practice Something like this, and I think this is something that you would want to try a couple times.
	I don't know if there's a lot of large buildings that are just sitting around, you know, waiting for us to sample or experiment with a nuclear device in terms of bringing it down to make it look like a controlled demolition.
	So, you know, I would want to do that if it were my job.
	Do that a few times just to make sure that we can get it done right because I mean this is this is in the middle of New York City.
	Alan, remember, it didn't look like a controlled demolition.
	All the floors remained stationary.
	With a controlled demolition, all the floors come down at the same time.
	We were told they were collapsing, but the buildings weren't collapsing.
	They were blowing apart in every direction.
	But Jim, it's like a controlled demolition in reverse, where you're going from top to bottom.
	It's like a demolition under control, is how I put it.
	I agree with that.
	But I mean, you're asking, in some ways, contextual questions about background knowledge and how much experiment.
	And frankly, we don't know.
	How many buildings could the army have blown up using these techniques?
	And they were never reported because, remember, military technology is 20 years ahead of what the public is allowed to know.
	So I don't think The points like that are remotely decisive.
	I think they're interesting questions and they're worth addressing, but I would approach it in the manner I just have.
	Joe is so buried in his knowledge of everything that happened that he gets frustrated if it's not convincing to others right off the bat.
	But I've encountered this in many other contexts.
	JFK, Sandy Hook.
	You just don't know enough about what happened to get a handle for it, and you don't want to believe it anyway.
	So I like what you're doing now, and I view you as a sympathetic critic.
	I think that's extremely valuable to the truth movement, and that these are all issues you've raised that are worthy of being addressed.
	And I can't thank Joe enough.
	I'm a huge fan of Joel's.
	And I mean, I do more shows with Joel's than anyone else in the world.
	And Alan, I just want to thank you for being here today.
	I thought you were super.
	And even if not all your questions were answered, I think it was extremely beneficial to the audience to have this exchange.
	So I thank you both.
	I thank everyone out there.
	Check out the link to the Palmer Report, I'll add, on my BitChute channel, Jim Hatcher.

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