All Episodes
Previous Next
July 22, 2022 - Jim Fetzer
59:48
Real Deal Special Report:(21 July 2022): Nick Kollerstrom on The Just War
| Copy link to current segment

Time Text
This is Jim Petzer, your host on A Real Deal Special, an interview with Nick Kohlerstrom with regard to his new book, Ukraine, The Just War, because Russia had so many excellent reasons and was fully warranted in its intrusion.
Nick, give us a thumbnail sketch.
Wow.
All right.
It's very strange for me, Jim.
I've always been anti-war all my life.
I've always campaigned anti-war movements, why this or that conflict is not justified and war is not the answer.
And so I can fairly claim to have been a peace activist all my life.
And it's very strange that I've now feel obliged to do this book on a war that was not avoidable and is kind of righteous and inevitable.
So it's a pro-Russian text and as you know, I'm not a military expert, but what you and I are especially interested in is the psychology and tactics of deception, especially by Britain and America, okay?
Over many a year we've examined these and this is very much a war of information that's going on.
The staggering amount of deception and untruth and I realize that virtually nobody in this country knew the reason for the conflict, or how it broke out, or why it broke out, or who started it.
Now just given the comic book story of big bad Russia invades, poor little Ukraine, for no reason, and we've got to get Russia out of Ukraine again, and that's the story.
And I found it was only, I mean I like watching RT, right, Russia Today, I realise it's only on that programme that you get, you know, a real perspective on what's going on.
I don't think it's Russian propaganda.
I think they try and give both sides and they try and fairly debate the issue, as far as I can tell.
And it was only through RT, speaking personally, that you saw the plight of these people in these eastern little mini-states, People's Republics, Donbass and Luhansk, For five long years they've been permanently shelled and sort of bombed by their own government, okay?
Now what do you call a government that shells its own people?
It's been going for years.
Tyrannical, dictatorial, authoritarian, totalitarian, all the above.
Right, yeah, yeah.
I mean strictly speaking you can say the war began in 2014 in February with a coup d'etat.
And a war then began between these little mini-states.
They declared independence, as did Crimea, and a conflict, a bloody warfare began.
They did not recognize that coup d'etat and they demanded, for example, their right to be allowed to speak Russian.
And what you're saying, Nick, is essentially the war began because Victoria Nuland engineered a coup in Ukraine using five billion of taxpayers' dollars to depose the Russia-friendly then-president and install Western stooges outrageous.
Yeah, yeah, right.
That was very much a war between those two little mini-states and The Kiev government.
It wasn't primarily a war involving Russia.
Despite what you hear on the news, the reports are that they got their munitions and guns and so on by people deserting from the Ukraine army.
That it wasn't Russia as such supplying them with guns.
I think that's terribly important.
So it wasn't a Russia-backed coup.
That's the, as far as I've been able to gather, So the war with Russia, the Russian war, began in February of this year.
So it's two different, as it were, beginnings of the conflict.
And my book is primarily about what happened this year, the manner in which Russia finally made the decision to get involved and give up all its hope for peace and good relations with Europe.
Excellent, Nick.
Excellent.
And here we have your first slide, my friend.
Go for it.
Yeah.
Well, you can see Ukraine is very much a patched together state.
It doesn't have any great sense of national identity.
Although the people in the East and West, let's call them Poles in the West and Slavs in the East, they're exactly the same race, the same blood and almost the same language.
Ukrainian is a kind of dialect of Russian.
OK, it's not so different.
So why would people in the same race be fighting each other like this?
What is the cause of the conflict?
Slavs fighting each other?
I would say, Jim, that we're dealing with trauma here, deep memories of trauma, which politicians are ill-equipped to resolve.
Now, for people in the West, that's more Western part of Ukraine, That they have very traumatic memories of what happened with Stalin in the 1930s.
It's called the Holdsmore.
Yeah.
And that was about four, three or four million died with some collectivization process.
So they're very terrible memories of that, okay?
Yes.
And so that is kind of, although Russia today isn't anything like that, they've got that bad memory of Russia.
Okay, now on the other side, on the Russian side, that's the eastern side of Ukraine, they've got terrible memories of the Nazis in Germany.
The Nazis invading them and it's a very strange twist of fate that the Ukrainian government in Kiev, the main military, are very much pro-Nazi and they use Nazi emblems and stuff.
Their sense of loyalty comes from A feeling of, in the last world war, they were, you know, with the Nazis and so forth.
So that is a sense of trauma that the people in the East have, the Russian-speaking Slavs.
So both sides kind of have these enemy images, let's put it that way, or demonized images, each of the other.
So, I mean, if there's anyone in Ukraine interested in conflict resolution, one would need to get to grips with these demonized enemy images which come from the past.
We don't actually need them today.
We could get on and just live and let live without them and just agree to move forward as best we can without one side desiring to exterminate the other.
Anyway, let's have a look at, well, let's go to the second slide, shall we?
Right, this is just what's happening just this week.
It was off for a week, wasn't it, the gas?
And many of the top sort of political philosophers, and myself, I think a lot of the best philosophers in America, are on the website unce.com, okay?
They say that this whole war is engineered by America in order to stop friendship developing between Germany and Russia.
Yes.
And that's a very strange situation that NATO to exist it needs to have the enemy.
Yes.
So we can't have peace and friendship in Europe because what would NATO do then?
You know, so this is a very terrible echo.
As you might remember, Donald Trump came to Europe a few years ago and he talked with various heads of countries and he rebuked Germany for wanting to complete this pipeline.
He said, well, what is NATO doing here?
What's the point of having all these NATO, American NATO troops, if you're going to build a pipeline and be friends with them?
So that is, that is, or was, the absolute central issue.
Trump had it backwards, Nick.
I mean, he came in, wanted to have friendly relations with Russia, and he appears to have been pressured or manipulated into taking a negative attitude, because obviously increasing commercial and economic ties between Russia and Germany would be a good thing.
It would, as you've already observed me, NATO was antiquated, no longer necessary.
We can then use a peace dividend for constructive purposes like education, hospitals, improving the quality of life across Europe.
Yeah, exactly.
So he aspired to good relations with Russia, but he was just, he had such Ghastly characters around him, people who only thought in terms of war.
Anyway, that pipeline has now been switched off.
Europe could have had a happy future ahead of it.
It could have had prosperity, good relations with peace in Europe, good relations with Russia, and you can't ask for anyone more, you know, mild and moderate and reasonable than Vladimir Putin to To achieve such a thing, they could have had it all.
All they had to do was not bring NATO right up against, hard up against the border of Russia.
That's all they had to do.
Refrain from doing that.
And then we could have had peace in Europe.
Agreed.
Russia was very explicit.
They worked out painstakingly the Minsk agreements.
It looked as though there was a clear path to resolving these issues, save the coup of 2014 and the installation of a series of Western puppets, which has now culminated with the absurd clown Zelensky representing the Ukrainian people and being hailed as a hero worldwide.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, let's try and grapple with a question of the Minsk agreements was the blueprint for peace in Ukraine.
It was a blueprint for one country remaining neutral and non-aligned.
Yeah, let's keep that slide.
Okay.
Just keep with that slide.
Yeah.
What is it?
Sorry, I can't.
Yeah, yeah, just leave that.
Neutral and non-aligned and that many states in the east would have some degree of autonomy, not independence.
The Minsk agreement gave them some degree of autonomy and principally guaranteed their right to use the Russian language, which that was one thing they were dead keen on.
However, the Minsk agreements did accept that Crimea had a right to be independent.
And that is very difficult for Ukrainian government to accept.
I think that was in the Ukrainian, in the Minsk agreement, wasn't it?
I think it was.
And they had voted, as soon as this neo-Nazi coup was installed, they voted by a huge majority to become independent and asked to rejoin the Russian Federation.
Russian Federation accepted that.
And so And they had existed a long time before they were in Ukraine, so they had some right to be independent and make up their own mind on this.
So anyway, the point is the Minsk Agreement was not only signed by Germany and France, as well as Russia, but also it was totally ratified by the United Nations Security Council.
They voted unanimously to approve of the Minsk agreements.
So this was a very solemn ratifying of those agreements.
And it's more has come out that Ukrainian or Ukrainian politicians have said they didn't really want to enact them.
They were just trying to buy time.
And in eight long years, there was no ceasefire as the Minsk agreements required.
Over eight long years, The shelling, you know, boom, boom, boom every other day of those little mini-states continued.
And they were cut off from electricity and water.
And I think also the banks.
So they were totally reliant on Russia providing stuff for them.
So I would say the Ukrainian government had de facto, was de facto treating them as separate countries because it wasn't supplying essential Gas, electricity and water and it was bombing them.
I don't think once you do that you can then claim that you still want them to be part of Ukraine.
I think that's a totally insane position.
Okay.
Yeah, I think you want to move to, you know, the independent Russian backed separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk, Nick.
I mean, we want to.
You have many excellent slides here we want to be sure to incorporate.
Right.
- Right, okay, well, here's just a close up.
This is just around the Eastern part is traditionally the wealthiest part of Ukraine.
A massive grain exporting and also iron and steel industry production.
So in the old Soviet Union this was one of perhaps the wealthiest part of Ukraine.
So it might have been very unwise of the Kiev government to be bombing and shelling these complete barbarians instead of a more civilized attempt to discuss and find out what the problem was.
Question is, can you bomb someone into oblivion for years and years and then demand that they agree on a national flag?
In a way, this whole war is about, in a way, it's just about a national flag, isn't it?
The people in Kiev want to say, you're in our country and we don't accept your degree of autonomy that you wanted in the Minsk agreements.
Okay, let's note what's important here in this map here.
It's not just those two.
It's also, there's two other districts, Kherson, north of Crimea, and Zaporizhzhia.
Now, why are they important?
Let me suggest, Jim, let's ask from the point of view of international law, is Russia allowed to go into votes?
I think the legality is terribly important in this conflict.
What is allowed?
I would say the legality of what Russia is doing It's based on attempting to stop the shelling of those two mini-states, and it's moving into the mainland of Kiev, maybe a hundred miles or however much is necessary, so that the shelling has to stop.
Because the shelling should It should be stopped by diplomacy and simple reason, but that can't happen.
The hate and rage is too deep.
And so Russia goes into Ukraine territory enough to try and stop the shelling.
And I think that would have worked by now.
By now, what's called the limited military operation of Putin would have reached its limit.
It would have stopped by now if Britain and America had not given longer range weapons.
Yeah.
Kiev has now got his longer range weapons and they can therefore still do what they enjoy most of terrorizing and killing local residents in those areas.
And this makes the western nations that provide those weapons co-belligerents and therefore legitimate targets of Russian retaliation.
Well it would do, yeah, but let's hope that doesn't happen.
Let's hope this stays local.
We just go to that map.
What's important about Kherson?
Yeah, is that it's just north of Crimea, OK?
And the Ukrainians are threatening to destroy the bridge that goes to Crimea, the world's longest bridge joining Crimea with Russia.
OK, wonderful, lovely bridge.
They are threatening to destroy that.
And if they do, it will then be terribly important that Russia has got a land bridge now to Crimea through those two states, Kursk and Zaporizhia.
So that is one reason why I think it's justified.
And the other reason, in Kherson, there's a major river that flows into Crimea and irrigates the whole northern part of Crimea, and Ukraine switched off that, put a dam.
That was a nasty thing to do, Nick.
Well, anyway, Russia's coming now and they blew up the dam, so the river's flowing again now.
And so I think there are legal arguments for Russia occupying these four main districts.
And it's unfortunate.
Well, I would be nice if there could be international law discussions that were not so hysterically anti-Russia to debate the legality of what's going on.
But alas, that doesn't seem to exist or any not in Europe.
OK, right, next.
Sure.
OK, this just shows how polarised the country is.
Red is Russian speaking and yellow is more what's called Ukrainian.
So as I emphasise, they're all they're all kind of dialogues in the same language.
Let's bear in mind here what we saw in a very early slide, that ancient Rus, R-U-S, from a thousand years ago, used to exist and was centred on Kiev.
Here we are, yeah.
It was centred on, can you see Kiev in that map there?
I'm looking.
In the south, the southern part of the red zone.
Here it is.
Yes, right here, Nick.
That's it, yeah, Kiev, right.
So, a thousand years ago, ancient Rus developed around this area.
This is the original nucleus of this ancient culture.
And so, let's emphasize that Russians have got an absolute right to be living in this country.
And the idea that they can be driven out by a far-right Kiev government is Well basically it's genocide.
I would say that genocide has been going on.
I would say that is the the crux of the matter, that what's been happening in eastern Ukraine is genocide.
It's ethnic cleansing and Even though The Hague dismissed the claim.
The Hague is an international human rights council.
How could they justify that, Nick?
How could they justify when it's obvious that this is a form of terrorism, butchery, this is a violation of human rights?
How could The Hague dismiss it?
Yeah, well that's a good question.
I think in some ways the council chambers of Europe don't seem to have too much by way of coherent thought these days and they're just driven by rabid hate.
I think that Russia is the last white Christian culture on earth and that somehow generates terrific hate from the empire and rage and a desire to dismiss everything it wants to do.
You know, Nick, you refer to the coup as a far right.
I think it was far left.
Really?
I mean, that's how I would put it.
But I mean, your thoughts?
Oh, I don't know.
It was US inspired.
Maybe far left.
Yeah, I think far left.
OK.
I just don't know, but it meant that a government was installed by brute force, which did not represent the majority of the people of the country, and anyone favouring traditional Russian culture was terrorised or bumped off.
So, whatever you call that, it was a US-friendly... Yeah, here are the example of the battalions showing their sympathies with the Old-fashioned Nazis.
That is the Azov Battalion and you can see on the right their poster.
Even their shield.
You can see the Black Sun motive of the Nazis.
On the right is the Azov Brigade logo.
So this is a country in a condition of deep trauma and I think we need to apprehend, or I suggest, that just rational discussion of politicians isn't quite going to resolve this.
Different groups are suffering, we're under a condition of trauma and in a way it's a lost country.
People don't know what they believe in or what they want to, where they want to get to.
They're sort of asking, can we join the EU?
You know, you know that Nathan Rothschild has said that if we lose a war in Ukraine, the whole new world order may be lost.
Well, there's another story that a whole lot of Jews from Israel want to move to Ukraine.
No, no, no, Nick.
I mean about the Great Reset and all that.
Ukraine seems to play a pivotal role.
So I think that the involvement of Russia here is on behalf of humanity, not just the Russian state, but it's actually a war for all of humanity.
And he has declared Vladimir Putin and Russia to be enemies of the of the great reset and the new world order in the world.
This this is Nathan Rothschild.
Yeah, well, I totally agree with you.
I think this is a pivotal, pivotal battle, a pivotal battle which had to be fought because reason and coherent dialogue broke down and the Russian values are kind of humane these days.
The values that Europe used to think that it had a century ago, Europe used to think that it stood for, and are now gone.
And so I think that Europe is...
It's ironic, Nick, but the values of the old Russia are now the values of America today, and the values of the old America are now the values of Russia today.
Well, it's very odd.
Extremely odd.
But I think Europe is going downhill now.
I can't see any more good times ahead for Europe.
I think for a thousand years, Europe has been the center of world civilization, if I may make such a loud such a statement.
Well, perhaps America has for some last century.
Nick, I think that's absolutely right.
And it seems to take for granted that it can stay in that role, but it's lost virtue now.
And it doesn't have justice in its judgments.
It's just driven.
It's lost its moral authority.
Yeah, it's driven by anti-Russian hate, and I've researched especially the work of British intelligence.
My last previous book, Novichok Chronicles, looked at the way British intelligence kept faking poisonous accusations against Russia, you know, with Navalny, Skripal, and so on, and the M17 shootdown, which Russia had absolutely nothing to do with that, got blamed on Russia, you know, Stories are woven and hit the media, reasons for hating Russia.
And why?
Why?
Britain doesn't benefit at all, not in the slightest, from this anti-Russian hate.
We get absolutely no positivity out of it.
It's just that the military are so strong, But they need hate and fear to justify the military expenditure that it seems to be if I want to tell me the terrible situation we're in.
The British equivalent of the US military industrial congressional complex.
Yeah, well, we've got whatever it is, it started started about less than 10 years ago.
The belief that we've got to hate Russia.
And if you remember the beginning of the century it was just Muslims that were being demonized and we're getting all these fabricated terror events to make us hate and fear Muslims so that we could bomb their nations and I sort of assume that'll be enough to keep the military happy you know but now they want to go back to big bad Russia to hating Russia and Stop this collaboration of Germany.
Right.
So that's just an image.
Incredible stupidity, Nick.
Incredible stupidity and with devastating consequences that are now playing out before our very eyes.
Yeah.
Now, I think there's one reason why this thing won't go nuclear.
And it's a very good trilogy of books by this military expert here.
Can you see his name?
Hang on, Nick.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Andrei Martynov.
Andrei Martynov.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Real Revolutionary Military Affairs.
And this previous one is called Losing Military Supremacy.
And it's about how America no longer has this great strategic advantage that it thought it had.
Yeah.
Because America has put all its, so much of its military power into these giant aircraft carrier battleships, whole fleets of them.
And Russia has now got these hypersonic missiles that go on nine or ten times the speed of sound that can take them out.
Yeah.
And they're non-nuclear.
So there's been a change.
America can't just turn up and threaten total You know, can't just bully and expect to win.
That is one reason why America wants to get its missiles all along the European-Russian border.
That's the plan.
They're already putting it in Poland, Poland and Romania, and they want to put it in Ukraine.
American missiles on the Russian border.
That's very much what this whole conflict is about.
Yes, yes, yes.
In violation of the solemn agreements between Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, that the West would not encroach one inch to the East, which has been grossly violated by American administrations.
It's one of the greatest betrayals of international agreement in the history of the world.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And if only that stuck to that promise, we could have had peace in Europe.
Save trillions in military expenditures that would not have gone into the pockets of the military-industrial complex, hence the conflict.
Yeah, yeah.
So if you had wanted a happy future, you know, this always reminds me of the film The Matrix, where Agent Smith, talking about this program, Reality is a Device, he said, initially we set it up so that people were happy, but then we found it wasn't credible.
So we had to make a different one where everyone's miserable.
As if Europe couldn't face a happy future.
A future of cultural exchange, well-being, Productivity and respecting the different nations and East-West collaboration.
No, no, it needed the nightmare of military escalation and threat all the time.
And we could go into why that is.
But anyway, that's led to the situation that we're in now.
So the Ukraine conflict is partly due to this, of America encroaching.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And it was the best effort to work this all out, the Minsk Accords.
Yeah, this is a simple... Just looking at it, I think I've been over much of this.
Let's look at what happened in 22-22.
This is a very interesting period, right?
Well, no, Dick, I want you to go through it all.
It's a nice summary overview.
Oh right, okay.
2014, Luhansk and Donetsk co-signed the Minsk agreement.
So that is the roadmap to peace.
Together with Germany, France and Russia.
Yeah.
So the most powerful nation in Europe, Germany, could have put its weight behind it if it wanted to.
And it allows those little miniscapes to use their own language, Russian.
Okay, so they're then tormented for eight years by a state that clearly is interested in adhering to this agreement, cuts off electricity, water, gas and finance and bombing them.
So this is a totally psychotic condition of thinking you can treat people in this way and then demand that they agree to be part of your country.
I mean, what kind of madness is that?
So anyway, there comes a point, let's consider carefully what happens.
If you remember December and January of last year, turning of the year, we were continually about to be told that Russia's going to invade Ukraine.
All the time the news was announcing that and we didn't know why that was.
Okay, then February 17th, A massive increase in artillery bombardment, enormous, takes place suddenly of the Donbass.
Donbass is just the word for the eastern Ukraine.
And a huge gathering of crack troops, Ukrainian troops, not much less than half a million, 400,000 gather on the border.
And this is a troop, they've been trained, it emerges by NATO over all these years, those eight years supposedly NATO was training them all the time, so they got embedded with NATO military in those troops.
So they're on the borders of Donbass, and what happens?
An exodus begins of women and children fleeing to Russia, and the men are going to stay behind and try and defend their towns.
That is the situation coming up.
And then on the 17th, And they then ask the Russian Federation if they will recognize their independence.
Russia finally agrees to do so.
So that's the big turning point on the 22-22.
Russia acknowledges the independence of these two mini-states, right?
And as soon as they've been acknowledged, what happens?
They immediately ask Russia for assistance and protection.
So Russia then comes in, and it comes into those two little states.
This is the 24th.
However, in order to stop the shelling, which is coming from outside those other states, Russia has to go into the mainland of Ukraine.
There's no other way to do it.
So very, very quickly on the 24th, the Russia moves in and takes out all the airports and the warships of Ukraine.
And so the conflict begins, okay?
And then just more recently, in June of this year, Poroshenko, who signed the Minsk agreements, came out and stated that he never had any intention of buying them, and he just wanted to buy time.
And that's what he told the people of Ukraine.
What a disgrace!
What a disgrace!
So Lavrov recently discussed this in a very good article.
Okay, now let's just scrutinize this part of the Minsk agreement, because it explains Russia's belief that it has to go into Ukraine in order to stop the conflict, because you can't talk rationally saying to this government, But bombing your own citizens isn't really a good idea.
Can you stop?
That was not feasible.
So they had to go into Ukrainian territory to do this.
So it agreed 50 kilometers wide security zone and then a wider zone 70 kilometers for any bigger weapons.
And 140 kilometers wide for the very large long-range weapons.
Okay, so those are the weapons that Ukraine had and which are codified in the Minsk Agreement.
Yes, but now of course the whole situation has changed because the West has sent them so many other weapons.
Yeah, this HIMARS we hear all about.
So that's what prevents the accomplishing of this limited military operation that enables Ukraine to keep on the bombing.
Okay, here's just a summary.
We've already said this.
Very good chap, Mike Whitney, writes on UNS.com.
Oh look, he wrote this the 11th of February, this is before the conflict broke out.
He said Ukraine is Washington's weapon of choice for torpedoing North Stream and putting a wedge between Germany and Russia.
So he could see the whole plan developing, that this is the way to stop the all-important catastrophe Which would lead to world peace breaking out and the friendship between Germany and Russia.
It's an anti-peace movement by the United States.
Yeah.
Now, this is a very important graph drawn up by the OSCE, Organizations for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
And it just shows the number of shells which blew up every day in the Donbass area.
And you can see around the 17th of February, can you see just there, that it goes up by a hundredfold, literally a hundredfold.
Yes, yes.
Doubles here, between the 17th and the 18th.
Yeah, doubles.
If you go back to a few days earlier, it's literally a hundred times more shelling.
Yes.
Right, so that is when the war broke out.
That is the initiation of war.
Massive increase in shelling.
If we agree that of those eight long years, war as such was not happening.
It was kind of slow ethnic cleansing genocide.
But let me suggest that that is the real moment when war broke out and they knew that Russia had to respond to it.
They pretty well knew Russia was going to be drawn in by them doing that.
And that is why they had been predicting all through December and January that Russia was going to invade Ukraine.
Because they were going to provoke it and make it impossible for Russia to not invade.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So, around this magic day, everything pivots.
Right.
Okay, let's look at what happened on the 19th.
19th February, right?
It's just when it's beginning.
German Chancellor Schultz This is by a very good chap, Aaron Mattei, a Swede, proposes to Zelensky, this is at some military discussion thing in Munich, I think, proposes to Zelensky that Ukraine renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal.
So this is a key thing that would have stopped the war if Zelensky had just said Ukraine will not join NATO.
That would probably have sufficed to reassure Russia and stop the conflict.
Russia has always said Ukraine joining NATO is a red line and it cannot tolerate that.
Okay?
Yeah, so somehow the German Chancellor Schulz reckoned that he's got the agreement of both Putin and Biden.
We don't quite know how, but If Zelensky had said that, then both Putin and Biden would have agreed, and that would have been a European security deal.
Yes.
Now, Zelensky said no, in any way he had to say no, because he'd already started that massive bombardment that we just looked at, okay?
And he'd come to that conference without any interest in peace, simply to ask for weapons and military support.
Yes.
So it's important to appreciate that was the last peace deal, and by Zelensky saying no on the 19th, that guaranteed that millions would flee from Ukraine, millions of refugees.
Here are the three key dates, the 17th, the 18th and the 19th.
Yeah, so it guaranteed thousands Maybe tens of thousands of Ukrainians will be brutally killed.
It's a senseless war and the ruin of the economy.
So he led his country into this total ruin.
As a Western puppet, it was installed for this very purpose.
Yeah, a comedian, a sort of sex deviant, cocaine addict, clown.
It's incredible the world should take this person seriously because he's just a stooge.
Ah shucks.
Anyway, that's the world we live in.
Right.
It almost makes you believe in all those funny conspiracy theories, doesn't it?
Indeed.
Okay, now this is just a map, I think it's back in May or June, shows you the Russian gains, where they got to, and let's just also notice, you can see at the top here in blue, what happened around Kiev.
It's very important that there was a feint, right at the beginning of this conflict, of Russian troops pretending to look as if they wanted to attack Kiev, right?
Yes.
They came, they didn't go into Kiev, they stayed on the outskirts and I think just out for Odessa.
They looked as if they wanted to attack Odessa and that pinned down a large chunk of the Ukrainian army.
That faint.
Very good.
And it may be hard to believe this but the Ukrainian army is actually much larger than the Russian troops.
There's about 400,000 Ukrainian army and something like 150,000 Russian troops moved in.
Those were crack Russian troops.
They weren't conscriptions.
It wasn't conscription.
Those were real trained soldiers and very skilful military operations.
And that feint at the beginning of looking as if they wanted to attack Ukraine was part of their operation.
part of the part of their operation.
Okay, right.
Okay, this is a Russian 30th of June.
This is a Russian statement responding to the massive amount of missiles that Kiev is being given.
They're saying they've got to move the border further because of all these missiles, which is pretty obvious really.
It is clear that everything that's fallen into the Ukrainian units will eventually fly into the Russian military and possibly into the cities.
Well, then the Russian army will move the border hundreds of kilometers away.
To do this will be necessary to occupy the Sumy, Chernihiv, Poltava and Kharkov regions.
So, I mean, this is very tragic.
The war can't be allowed to finish and it's doomed to escalate.
And it's doomed to escalate because of the Complete absence of honest reporting of what's going on.
I mentioned there was a feint around Kiev of the Russian military pretending or looking as if they wanted to move into Kiev.
Now they're in a little place called Butcher, which is northwest of Kiev.
And that was the site of this massive This dreadful, dreadful slaughter.
On the 30th of March, in Butcher, let's go to the scene, 30th of March, the Russians pulled out of this little town Butcher, okay?
Then, a day or two later, after they pulled out, the mayor of Butcher arrived and said, yeah, right, I'm in control now and everything's going to be all right and don't worry, we're restoring peace.
Then, on the 2nd of April, Atrocity pictures appeared showing a lot of bodies laid out on the streets and it was claimed that Russians had done this.
But the Azov battalion came in, we're shooting them right and left.
Well, of course they were, yeah.
The Azerbaijan came in and the people slaughtered in the streets, you notice they got white armbands, and that was the sign of people being pro-Russian, you know, just so you could label yourself pro-Russian.
And also, get this, the Russian convoys were arriving with food parcels.
The breakdown government.
They were trying to feed people with these food parcels, and you saw amidst the slaughter, bodies lying in the streets, you saw the pictures of these food parcels.
Yeah.
At least you did on RT.
I mean, okay.
If you had a Russian food parcel or white armband, they shot you dead.
Anyway, I mean, just look at all these British newspapers.
I think this is the 3rd or 4th of April.
They're told, oh, how terrible.
Look what Russia's done.
And they post all this.
There's one honest British politician, Nick Griffin, a foreign politician, and he said, look, this is such a transparent fraud.
This is the picture that was broadcast, OK?
These bodies have obviously been laid out in the streets, OK?
And Nick Griffin said, look, these bodies are not smelly.
They're not decomposing.
There's no carrion eating these bodies.
And they obviously only just died.
Because this was on the 2nd and the Russians moved out on the 30th.
And it's quite obvious that they've just been killed by the Azov battalions.
There was no freezing cold weather or anything that would stop the bodies decomposing.
So, I mean, if UN had wanted a fact-finding mission, you know, it could very easily have This is shameful on the part of the United Nations, just as The Hague has been derelict in its responsibilities as well.
Yeah, anyway, loads of Russian diplomats were expelled in the wake of this fabricated terror event.
This was a massive fabricated terror event.
Real deaths, real dead bodies, but the blame is cast on an innocent third party.
And why do the British newspapers always swallow this crappy narrative just because they're told who to hate?
Just so they can tell readers who to hate, right?
Yeah.
I mean, actually... This is classic propaganda, classic propaganda, Nick.
I mean, we're talking about the information wars.
Alex Jones first invited attention to very appropriately at work in a time of war where truth is the first casualty.
Yeah, yeah, right, true, yeah.
I mean, when I gathered, Russia's been very scrupulous in avoiding civilian casualties, and that's why it's moved so slowly, month after month.
This Russian advance has been very slow.
It hasn't just bombarded cities or towns like Britain and America did when they invaded Iraq, And it has done so because it expects to have to occupy these countries, these parts of the country, once it's been reclaimed.
You want to preserve the infrastructure to the max and do the least possible harm to the civilian population?
Yeah.
And the butcher massacre actually has a moral to it.
The moral is that once Russia is there, it can't really move out because the mentality of the people governing this country at present is that anyone pro-Russian needs to be shot.
Right.
Are they going to come in and commit mass murder again as soon as Russia were to depart so they cannot depart?
We can't, no, no.
I think that is the moral of the Butcher Massacre, quite apart from the disgraceful way in which all our media go for this fabricated terror event.
Okay, now there have been quite a few of these fake terror events.
Let's come on to the next one.
I've only got two here.
Right, now this is a shopping mall, let's call it Kremenchuk, right in the middle of Ukraine and all the papers that are put are full of this thing.
Oh, how dreadful!
A shopping mall is targeted and you hear screaming and you see people rushing out of the shopping mall.
Well, none of that happened, okay?
You didn't hear any screaming.
You didn't see any shopping.
You only saw various military walking up and down in their grey military uniforms.
You saw some police walking up and down.
You only saw one woman in the whole picture and no children at all.
So the shopping mall was closed.
It had been closed for several months and someone did this just by checking up on the web on its website of the supermarket.
That shop and the various shops around it had no comments since March.
Right, so it was a closed supermarket and that was a statement Russia put out that this was a closed supermarket and it was next to this big place where weapons were stored.
Now if you look at this map here you can see sort of in the centre a big storage area for trucks or something and missiles and weapons were stored there and right down at the bottom of the picture you see that rectangle at about seven o'clock yeah just there that is the shopping mall right And right in front of that, you can just see the car park.
OK.
Yeah, no, no, no.
Just right at the bottom of the car park.
Yes, I've been circling.
OK.
Right.
So this shopping mall was, as it were, collateral damage.
The bombs were shown, the bomb craters were shown in this main truck storage area.
So and they said about 17 people were killed.
I would say I would expect those of military who were in there looking after all the equipment.
They may even have set them all on fire just as a distraction and cover from the damage that they had sustained militarily.
Yeah, okay, that's quite possible.
There was some CCTV on the other side of that storage area which showed fire and burning and bits of shells exploding and military running out from the buildings.
Well, once again, there was a terrific load of heart-rending newspaper headlines about the cold-blooded Russian targeting of shoppers, you know.
I mean, have they no shame with this sheer amazing mendacity?
Don't the British people mind being lied to like this?
Look at this shot.
It says, death toll unimaginable, says Zelensky.
Well, why would you believe anything Zelensky said?
Throughout this war, there's a staggering degree of mendacity created to, you know, just to demonize Russia.
And I'll just show it to them.
Yeah, the anti-Russian propaganda manufactured events, actual massacres blamed on Russia when they're perpetrated by the Azov battalions.
Alinsky, a comic, a stooge, a liar extraordinaire.
How could people be this dumb?
But Nick, it's a power of propaganda.
Constant barrage by the mainstream media.
The same stories again and again and again.
It has an effect.
act.
I suppose so.
Anyway, coming to the end, we'll just quickly look at the bioweapons now.
A whole mass of bioweapon laboratories, I think there were a couple of dozen, found throughout Ukraine.
I believe there were 30.
30, right.
And these were put there in the hope that nobody would see them, you know.
And what was America doing there?
Well, their sign, this Biological Weapons Convention, which prohibits these kind of But there is a loophole in that biological weapons convention which says you're allowed to research, as it were, the effects of these poisons.
If you can claim you've only got so many substances in order to find out or find antidotes to them or something like that, to protect yourself against them.
America will claim these are threat reduction laboratories or some phrase like that.
Right.
That's the cover story.
Cover story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is what I think that's why the Pentagon, all the Pentagon spokesmen were totally denying, lying and denying the way out of this.
Oh, no, we do not have any biological warfare laboratories.
Full stop.
And wasn't it Victoria Nuland who Came out and said, yeah, we have.
Yes.
Who was fearful that the Russians were going to seize the laboratories and their content and blew their cover.
Yeah.
So she came out and said, yeah, we have got these laboratories in Ukraine.
What did she say?
Biological Experimental Laboratories or something like that.
Yeah.
Bioresearch Laboratories.
Yeah.
Bioresearch Laboratories.
Yeah.
Yeah, so the Pentagon had to stop denying their way out of this.
Here's a denial by Newsweek, right?
As part of its latest attempts to justify its invasion of Ukraine, Russian officials are once again pushing a false narrative that an Eastern European country is developing biological weapons with the assistance of the US.
It's so blatant, Nick!
It's so disgusting!
Well, anyway, I think it's very clear that those diabolical labs really did exist.
The Pentagon has admitted it now.
They've retracted.
They've acknowledged.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
And there's some papers the Russians managed to capture describing their intentions.
Yes.
Yeah.
There's also a long, complicated story about Hunter Biden, isn't there?
With his laptop.
He was somehow involved with, wasn't he involved with this, um, these biological warfare?
He was involved in everything.
If it's corrupt and sordid, Hunter was there.
Right.
Especially about paying a lot of, paying a lot of prostitutes.
If you want to see the true axis of evil, Nick, I think you've got it exactly right.
Right, yeah.
But Biden, uh, Joe Biden paid loads of money to his son for prostitutes in Ukraine, didn't he?
Some ring of call girls in Ukraine.
So anyway, there you go, you couldn't make it up.
Okay, well I think that's Is that about it?
Oh no, no.
I'm trying to find an optimistic note.
Could there be peace in Europe?
Can we avoid World War Three?
And it seemed to me that this alliance here could be really hopeful.
This used to be the old Warsaw Pact, if you remember the old Warsaw Pact?
Yeah, yes I do.
Poland, Romania, Bulgaria.
And the Warsaw Pact kept the peace in Europe as long as it existed.
It's important that we remember that.
And once it dissolved, then NATO could start bombing Yugoslavia into bits, which it did.
So this is what's called a Three Seas Initiative or Trimerium, and around the Baltic, Adriatic and Black Sea, these countries are getting together and can they manage to be neutral?
Yes.
I think that's really important for the future of Europe.
Can we have a neutral alliance here that is not NATO or Russia?
And can it be strong enough to have its own sovereignty and independence?
You know?
Yeah.
So you've got some very little countries here that by themselves obviously don't have any power, but possibly all joined up.
They could be to some degree sovereign and let's hope so.
Well, Poland's not another country, but there's quite a few rather tiny countries here, and especially Prague, a wonderful ancient city in Europe, which has always stood for peace and never wants to get involved in wars.
So if there could be a culture of peace in Europe, I think those trimerium countries, the Three Seas Initiative, could be significant.
So they are growing in importance now.
They're suddenly realising How valuable they are.
A major obstacle is this guy, Zolinski, who's demanding more money.
They're buying expensive real estate in Switzerland, he and his cronies, and they want more weapons to drag it out.
Yeah, yeah.
It's quite funny, really.
The big NATO meeting on 28th June, he said he wanted five billion a month.
And then recently it's gone up to nine billion.
And he sacks a whole load of his closest aides.
And he's talking about criminal procedures about a lot of people in government, so he's obviously getting totally paranoid.
And there's probably people who want to get rid of him, you know?
Here's the optimism of PP.
Yeah, this is a good guy.
I really like.
He's a Brazilian philosopher and he writes for stuff on unz.com and various sites.
And he's always got an optimistic vision of the future, which involves the East, China and Eurasia, and says that Europe's kind of had it.
So would you like to read this, Jim?
One constantly heard that China builds plants and high-speed railways while Europe at best writes white papers.
It can always get worse.
The EU as occupied American territory is now descending fast from the center of global power to the status of an inconsequential peripheral player, a mere struggling market in the far periphery of China's community of shared destiny.
At the same time, the Greater Eurasia Partnership will be solidifying Russia as the ultimate Eurasian bridge, creating a common space across Eurasia, which could even ignore vassalized Europe.
Yeah, well, I feel that is talking about the future.
And it's quite an optimistic vision of a shared commerce and culture of countries that are not interested in war, that don't want war.
And I feel they're now up-and-coming nations and the West has sort of done itself in, I think, if I can say.
OK, these are just some sources I recommend.
And I missed out the Duran.
The Duran's very good.
The moon of Alabama, the new Atlas, Gonzalo Lira, a young fellow called I. Earl Gray.
This has been just sensational.
This is going to be a must watch interview.
Show us your book again.
I think this is absolutely sensational.
I cannot tell you how glad I am I had this opportunity to interview you about your latest publication.
Well, thanks, Jim.
And let's hope it doesn't get banned by Amazon like One or two other books of mine.
It's on Amazon.
I've got a feeling people will like it.
Yeah.
Nick, I can't thank you enough.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host on The Real Deal with a special interview with Nick Kohlerstrom.
This is one everyone should hear.
Thanks, and thank you all for watching.
OK, Jim.
Till next time.
Bye for now.
My pleasure, Nick.
Great job.
▲
Export Selection