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Feb. 3, 2022 - Jim Fetzer
32:38
The New JFK Show (2 February 2022) with Gary King and Larry Rivera
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Welcome everyone to the new JFK show number 266.
We've got a document in that has been been released by the Biden administration.
If you can believe that and we're going to talk about that a little bit and also we're going to cover a Joe Rogan Oliver Stone interview and see how Oliver's doing on probably the one of the most widely Subscribe to or listen to shows out there.
It's I think 12 million viewers a day.
Oh, yeah, it's it's the most popular podcast on the Internet.
And so he's got a big platform.
So we got to see if they're telling the truth on this.
So for him to give Oliver Stone almost 15 minutes, not even 15 minutes, that must be a big thing, huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're back to our hourglass, by the way.
Very good, very good.
That's our signature.
Yeah.
But I get the impression Oliver's performing the role of an apologist for Lyndon Johnson and suggesting Lyndon was just in a difficult spot and had to manage to benefit the world without bringing about a war.
I mean, Larry, it sounds like unadulterated poppycock.
He hightails it away from LBJ, like you will not believe, like a bat out of hell.
So you want to do that first and then he must have been threatened.
We'll talk about it.
Gary, go ahead and show us, show us this interview.
Okay.
Here we go.
All right.
We move us over.
We'll go to full screen and here we go.
The community of people that are obsessed with the JFK assassination is pretty thorough.
It's amazing.
There are a lot of nutcases too out there, but those serious people are really good.
And they're the ones that kept this case alive.
Well, it's a thing that a conspiracy theorist really looks to.
I don't use that word.
I think true seekers much more.
I have to stop just for a second.
The very first thing out of him, he says, man, there's some great JFK researchers, a lot of nutcases out there, too.
And I wonder just who is he talking about?
I think that's a great question.
I was struck by it already, you know.
And Rogan's already introducing the term conspiracy theorist.
And Oliver is saying he doesn't like that term.
He prefers to say, what, truth tellers?
Yes.
Well, I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but YouTube put a disclaimer up on this video directing anybody who really wanted to know about the JFK assassination to the Wikipedia garbage.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, the official narrative, the soft soap Warren Commission version.
Right, right.
And it's posted, you know, on this video on YouTube.
And interesting that a lot of the comments of people, you know, below that addressed that, you know, so that's pretty interesting.
It is.
Yeah, I want you all to catch what he says about a lot of nutcases out there.
I know it, and who's he talking about?
You and me and Larry?
I get a feeling, you know.
I'm a pretty perceptive person, you know, and I just get a feeling about that.
That's why I'm playing it again.
I mean, there's a lot of nut cases out there, but those serious people are really good, and they're the ones that kept this case alive.
Well, it's a thing that a conspiracy theorist really looks to.
I don't use that word.
I think truth seekers much more.
Okay, we'll forget about that word.
But someone who's interested in uncovering the truth about this assassination, The type of person that has that mindset that's interested in uncovering the truth about any historical event.
That's correct.
This is one of the best ones.
That's because there's significant evidence.
Yes, there's significant evidence.
And there's significant evidence that there is a conspiracy.
Significance.
I mean, I would say from the beginning, there was, yes, we have a shot from the rear and a shot from the front.
Yes, well, I was going to get into that.
So when you detail... Fellas, I'd like to ask y'all a question real quick.
Do you feel that there's significant evidence of a conspiracy in this JFK assassination?
No, not at all.
No.
But that's being asked as a serious question.
I mean, how stupid is that?
No, no, no.
You mean that big blow out of the back of the head when all the shots were supposed to have been from above and behind?
You mean, is that what you mean?
Um, well, you know, it seems like there's a good possibility that it could be a conspiracy at foot here, you know, so.
Oh, you mean to cover up?
You mean to cover it up?
I'm just being facetious right now.
You know, so here we go.
Okay.
Sarcastic.
So brilliantly in this documentary, all of the people that were involved in manipulating evidence, whether it's autopsy photos, whether it's the evidence about the actual shots, where they were fired from, the impact, like where the exit wounds was, all these various people that were involved.
How many people knew what had actually happened?
'Cause it seems like there was a concentration of people that was not small.
And one of the things that people who like to use the pejorative term conspiracy theorists, they always want to point to people can't keep a secret.
The fuck they can't, they had to. - It's a giant maze.
It's so confusing.
Yes.
That no one would be believed.
Right.
Think of it as departments of this.
Somebody pops up and says, I know this.
So he disappears in the maze.
It's another piece of information.
Yeah.
There's been no attempt by government to follow up on this at all.
They dismissed, they had the HSCA in 1978, right?
That came about because of pressure.
And a lot of that was classified still and disappeared for a while.
We got it out, all that stuff.
They, they decided that there was a probable conspiracy based on the acoustic evidence of the motorcycles, but we don't want to go into that because that's a whole other story.
Acoustic evidence?
Sound from the recording?
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, the shots, the shots.
The physical evidence of the impact on the body is way more important and way more obvious.
First of all, the establishment of the magic bullet was one of the most preposterous things that the United States public has ever accepted.
And I think we did a great service by driving a stake through that heart of that vampire because it's been around forever.
Well, you detailed in so many different ways, too.
You detailed all the various ways that they had tried to establish it.
Once they found the wound in the back, they tried to establish it.
Don't confuse it.
First of all, the magic bullet.
There's no chain of custody on it.
The FBI lied and we proved it in the film.
Yes, you did.
Because the times don't match when it was given.
So the FBI down and out lied.
Now, Hoover, of course, never, you know, one had to believe, wanted to believe that Oswald He did it alone.
He had to because they put themselves in a straitjacket.
They said three shots.
There were not three shots.
It was probably four or five shots.
Three shots.
Four or five shots?
He was a perfect.
Yeah, more like 11 to 13, something like that.
10 to 12 anyway.
Yeah, this is ridiculous.
And this guy's supposed to be an expert on JFK, expert enough to make two fucking movies about it.
Yeah.
All right.
What you got to say, Larry?
No, I'm just checking it out, you know, taking notes.
Taking notes.
Okay, here we go.
A reasonable young man.
He was in the corridor.
Also that Hoover was in a bind here, you know, that was a little difficult to take.
Being yelled at and he said, I need a lawyer.
I'm a patsy.
Yes.
Yes.
You know, the guy didn't behave like he was proud of what he had done.
No, which is what they said.
He was a communist, an assassin.
They had this background of visiting Russia.
Of course, we found out, we found out, the community found out that it wasn't everything what didn't meet the eye.
It was a whole other story going on.
What about the... Oswald had been an associated with the CIA.
Yes.
This is childish!
But he'd been watched by the CIA for four years.
That we know without a doubt now because of what we declassified.
Angleton, James Angleton, a counterterrorist.
FBI.
Had a file on Oswald since before Russia.
They knew him.
They knew what he was doing up until the week.
Well, apparently they just they disappeared his flash warning about a week before the assassination, which means to say you don't need to check Oswald.
If you are Secret Service, you see him somewhere on a parade route.
You'd have to clear out those type of people.
They get this Secret Service is very aware of people who have backgrounds who could be dangerous.
They took that off the signal on Oswald.
The other thing is that Oswald was working both sides, clearly that he was working with a pro Castro and the anti-Cuban movement.
But the CIA set up both.
The CIA set up the pro and the contra.
So it's very clear that they were well aware of him.
Dip him in the Cuban poison, sheep dip him, make him look like a commie who loves Castro.
That was the intention, I believe.
The CIA was so upset about these two near invasions of Cuba that they, this was a chance by killing Kennedy to get the United States to move against Castro.
And this is what Johnson, this is where Johnson is not, you can't blame Johnson because he felt that there was this pressure right away.
And he said to the Warren Commission guys, he says, look, There's a lot of pressure to point the finger at Russia and China and Russia and Cuba.
We don't want to do that because we're going to have a nuclear war if we do that like 40 million people are going to be dying.
That's what he told Warren.
Warren was went white you know in those days it was very serious 40 million people my god he had all the weight of the country on his shoulders and that's why he accepted this lousy job as the chief commissioner.
So Johnson used that story but Johnson believed it.
I think he believed it.
I think he believed There was, I think he believed in some way, I'm not sure.
He, let me put something, this is very important.
Marvin Watson was his aide to Johnson.
In 1970, in 19, Churchman.
Pause, pause, pause, pause.
He testified that Johnson.
All right.
I was going to say that 40 million people for Curtis LeMay would have been like collateral damage, you know?
You know, what the hell?
This is so pathetic.
This is so superficial.
It's insulting that this should be coming from this man.
I'm just embarrassed.
Didn't you know that Lyndon Johnson was a hero?
He kept us out of 40 million people.
Not a single, not a single word is said About LBJ and his involvement in all of this, Jim.
I'm sure you would have a couple of words to say about that.
This is just embarrassingly bad.
And this is effing Oliver Stone.
And we're wasting precious time on a show with this?
Well, we have to do our duty, fellas, you know.
Well, I just, diary, I just want confirmation insight into Oliver Stone and his thinking about this, which is very revealing.
Maybe he's taking it like one step at a time, you know, like little by little.
He just said, you know, it all started with the HSCA and yet the documents, you know, we're all, I mean, we're still... Yeah, and every 10 or 15 years they put out another movie that takes us a micro second closer to the truth.
I mean, this is ridiculous, Larry!
Not only that, there was no one more up to their eyeballs than J. Edgar Hoover.
And he's making it look like he's having to make a few decisions here.
He didn't want to think Oswald was, you know, you get it, fellas.
If you judge by what he's saying, this man is incompetent to be making movies about the assassination of JFK.
You think his time is way way is gone long time ago?
Oh way way gone!
His high watermark was JFK and, you know, going further as he's doing here now is just discrediting himself massively, massively.
Well, he brought everything so far as far as the mainstream media that we were so impressed.
It was like we were happy with that, but we were ready for more after 30 years now.
And all this research that we've done, it's amazing.
After he read the IG report that we talked about earlier, which said that there were no assassinations, President Kennedy or Robert had never approved, authorized any assassination attempt on Castro, right?
He read that report and he told Watson, according to Watson, he said, I now believe the CIA was probably involved in the assassination.
That's what he said.
In 67 when he read the report.
Wow.
It comes out in the church committee which is classified, disappears for some reason, we find it.
We find it again because of this ARB.
So he was probably left in the dark as well.
I do believe so.
I think he's definitely involved in the cover up because he doesn't want to have a war.
Right.
But he changes the whole policy of Kennedy right away.
We have that declassified call between him and Robert McNamara.
What does Johnson say in that call?
Do you remember?
It's in the film.
He says, you know, I was never in agreement with you and the president about withdrawing from Vietnam.
I thought you were wrong.
He says that proudly because he's going in.
Why he wants to go into Vietnam and not Cuba is another issue.
But think about that.
Just think about the implications.
Johnson is moving towards war in Vietnam.
And how deep in that he, I mean, he was looking to do something to weaken the grip of the CIA, not just get rid of those three guys, but he also wanted to diminish the CIA's influence.
Yeah, but that wasn't his only thought.
He had a hundred things to deal with.
Right.
That's the problem, right?
And he wasn't newly in office.
Well, yeah, by 60.
He said statements about the generals.
He said, you know, they're not worth a bucket of piss or whatever it was, you know, they're not generals think they know everything.
They always want to go to war.
They want to they want the parades, but they don't want the they don't want the casualties.
They don't want resulted and that's true for the United States.
We go to war with a lot of a lot of hoopla and we come out and we leave our people.
We leave our people.
Go ahead, Larry.
He is still with this obsession with Vietnam and wanting to tie it into the JFK thing, which is, like I said before, okay to a certain degree, all right?
But he always reverts back to the Vietnam thing and the Vietnam thing and the Vietnam thing, and I think it dilutes, you know, his His thesis presentation, you know, Jim, I don't know what you guys think about this.
You know, always coming back.
This is all just it's like always going back to Platoon.
It's like he's always going back to Platoon.
You know what I mean?
This is paper tissue thin.
This is just embarrassingly bad.
There's no substance here whatsoever.
All right.
Here we go.
Let's get it over with.
Veterans hospitals with limbs blown off.
It's not fun, the war.
And we treat it like, I think the United States has never experienced a war.
I think that's a problem.
On our shores.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when we do, we're shocked.
So we have a distorted perception of what war is.
I think the Russians are much more realistic because every Russian is related to somebody who was killed in World War II.
Right.
Well, it's in their hearts.
It's seared in.
And, uh, you know, I don't, I can't speak for the Chinese, but they lost like a couple of million men in Korea, you know, so they, they must have been some, a lot of family pain there.
Have you ever tried to calculate how many people were involved in the coverup of the assassination?
Because, you know, when you break down all the various people that you document, everyone from Arlen Specter to everyone that's on the Warren Commission's report, it's very clear that those folks had to know that what they were doing was bullshit.
From what you said about the FBI chain of custody for the magic bullet, the alteration of the autopsy photos and the difference between- And the autopsy itself.
Yes, the autopsy itself.
The difference between the Dallas autopsy and the way they looked at it at Bethesda, Maryland.
There was no Dallas autopsy.
Well, he did say that.
Gotta give it to him.
Quick.
Tracheotomy.
Yeah.
The tracheotomy and also the exit wound.
Yeah, Earl Rose was well treated.
He would have done a superb autopsy on JFK and there'd be none of this bullshit, which is why they had to steal the body and get the hell out of Dallas.
That's right.
In his head.
Well, yeah, that comes out later.
Yeah.
Although some people didn't see it.
But what the ARB did, thank God, was collect all the people who saw the rear exit wound.
And it was huge.
In the film, we showed the 40 people who saw it.
What's really crazy document in the film was the fact that it wasn't really his brain Yeah, please, the brain that they had used as a piece of evidence that this was Kennedy's brain had clearly been in formaldehyde for at least two weeks.
Yeah, well, I'm so glad our documentary, and this is James D. Eugenio who wrote it, you know, he's really the guy who reads everything, remembers everything through all these years, and there's a million documents.
We drove a stake through the magic bullet.
That's clear.
There's no chain of custody of the FBI line.
He's looking at his nose.
Matter of the autopsy that the brain.
Well, I'm glad after all these years that we've got the single, the magic bullet put to rest, thanks to this.
This is pathetic and insulting.
It verges on the absurd.
Is intact.
There's a, and it was photographed as such, it was a clean, the whole area was still there.
Whereas it's impossible because the brain was seen, you see, you see it spraying out in the car when, during the Zapruder film.
You see it, the nurses, Audrey Bell is talking about it's the, it's the, I can't remember the medical term, it's spilling out on the floor of Parkland.
Yeah.
And when they weigh the brain as they do in an autopsy, it comes out normal.
Well, not just normal, but extra large, right?
A little bit larger than average.
Like it was, it's impossible.
And what's more important is Joe Rogan knows more about JFK than Oliver Stone.
And he's not really there either.
One commission, all that stuff.
They bring them back.
The ORB brings them back and they, They show him the photos that we now have of the, that are in the National Archives.
And he says, that's, I never photographed that.
Right.
It was a, he took an up view of the brain.
He never took a bow view from below.
I never photographed that.
And that's very important.
There's also some evidence that they had drawn hair in to cover up the exit wound.
Yes.
I don't know about the evidence, but definitely the photograph shows that the hair had been Stop it there.
Stop it.
Drawing hair onto the…it's so ridiculous, Jim.
It is matte insert.
It is a technique, okay, that is very, very popular.
You know, it's no big secret of what they did with the autopsy photographs, alright?
The backyard photos with Lee's face, you know.
Matt, insert.
That's the technique.
You know, it doesn't go beyond that.
This guy's an amateur.
This is embarrassing to listen to.
Gary.
It almost sounds like they folded, you know, the hair back over to cover it up.
You understand what I'm saying?
It makes it seem like that they, you know, took it and folded it back over just for the photo.
And which is he talking about exactly?
He's not talking about the HSCA, is he?
Apparently.
I think these are the ones that Grodin got his paws on.
Well, the Grodin photographs are fake.
I said that to his face.
Right, right.
And those are the ones that are, you know, with the matte insert.
Right.
But I mean, the HSCA reconstituted the whole back of the head.
I mean, there's not even a gap for the Harper fragment.
I mean, it's so amateurishly done.
I know because, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, nowadays with Photoshop, we can do that in two seconds, you know?
But back in the day, you had to superimpose, you know?
Okay.
I'll back it up just to see what he said.
I know about the evidence, but definitely the photograph shows that the hair had been pulled in.
The shot is bizarre.
It's bizarre shots.
But so the autopsy is off.
The brain is off.
Photos are off.
He's following his notes.
The garrison trial revealed the one of the autopsies, Peter Fink, saying that they were not in charge.
You've got that, Larry.
He wouldn't let him put his finger in the back hole.
Right.
They told them what to do.
And they were very bullying.
In fact, There was, can you imagine having, doing an autopsy on the president and having 20 or 30 people looking at you from a gallery?
And they were telling him what he was able to do and not able to do.
So the autopsy was being directed.
Yeah.
I showed that in the movie.
Don't touch that.
Right.
Don't do that.
He actually put his finger in the wound.
Remember Peter Pink actually drove the wound with his finger.
All around Washington.
Why don't we, why don't, why wouldn't they call him in?
No, there's no desire.
So they had a predetermined ending that they wanted to achieve.
Or a result that they wanted to achieve.
Three bullets, one assassin.
But this is what's crazy.
It's like, you've got to think, okay, when then you have at least those 30 people that are in the audience watching that autopsy, I mean, what do they know?
I don't know that.
Isn't that crazy?
That we have all 30 of them know that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone.
No, we don't know that.
We don't know.
Right.
We don't know some of them.
We don't know?
Well, What is he saying?
We don't know if others were acting in addition to Lee Harvey Oswald?
I mean, did this come out of the words of mouth of Oliver Stone?
That's why we got the rewind button.
It was all at random.
It was multiple shooters all at random that showed up at Dealey Plaza, you know, and just blasted away at the same time.
They just happened to be there to shoot at the same location at the same time.
It was all by chance!
All right, here we go.
No, we don't know that.
We don't know.
We don't know some of them.
But there's obviously a directive.
Well, there again, now we don't know.
I shouldn't say obviously directed, but they're, they're doing something to influence the way this autopsy is being done.
At least some of the people are giving direction, giving instruction.
And you got to wonder why would they do that?
Like what motivation would they have unless they knew that smoking cigars that they need to achieve?
You have, of course, the Johnson fear that it would get it become hysteria, Russia or Cuba being accused of killing him.
And it would be.
How pathetic is this?
Here you got the mastermind behind the assassination being excused by Oliver Stone because he was just in a desperate plight to avoid a world war.
He was actually a hero according to Oliver.
That's right.
I see why you thought I was going to retch over this.
You got it right, Gary.
Yeah, I knew the LBJ stuff was going to get to you.
And I forgot about the J. Edgar Hoover.
He's kind of covered for him too.
Excuse to cover up.
You know, one interesting story.
It's in the four-hour version, not in this two-hour version.
That's coming out in the end of February.
There's the four hours?
I've been telling y'all that since the beginning.
Y'all seem like you don't believe me.
We have seen half of the whole thing and there's two more hours to come.
So you know what that means.
So tell me what does it mean, Gary?
That means that either he's got to turn the ship around really quick or we're going to just give up on Oliver Stone.
He's got two hours so he can turn it around.
Yeah.
Well, let's finish this and then call it a day because I can't take any more of this.
I mean, this is awful.
We only have like 58 seconds to go.
I know.
Go cover it.
40.
He looks up.
He says there's cigar smoke.
Blurring this thing, it was just cigar smoke, smells, covers the air and stuff.
You don't do, you don't smoke a cigar in an autopsy.
Who's doing that?
Find out, tell him to put it out.
He goes over to the gallery and guess who's smoking the fucking cigar?
Who?
General Curtis LeMay, the figure from Strange Love that Kubrick was satirizing.
That's hilarious.
And he says, can you put it out?
You know, LeMay simply looks at him, blows smoke in his face.
And the guy wrote, he was a, you know, technician.
He just wanted, he's telling the truth, walks back, couldn't get him to put the cigar on.
Wow.
That's pretty interesting.
Well, I got to say, Gary, I am ready to barf.
So you got it.
You got it exactly right.
In fact, I think I'm going to go barf.
So let's let's let's wrap this as a shorty, but awful, excruciating experience.
Larry, what is your summary opinion of Oliver Stone at this point in time?
This man we just heard speaking with Joe Rogan.
What is your assessment of him as an expert on JFK?
I think he should have stuck to the original script of JFK, you know, the movie, and not even, you know, go anywhere else.
You know, he had a masterpiece, you know, in my opinion, in 1991, and now, under the influence of others, he appears to be, you know, steered in a direction that, you know, is not really doing You know, any good, you know, for the case.
Yeah.
I think this is a disgrace.
Look, Gary, you're, you're over overall view.
Uh, it was pretty disappointing.
Um, you know, I mean, we're sitting here 50, how many years is it now?
58, something like that.
You know, Gary, you know what they should be talking about, you know, nowadays, you know, with the new, they should be talking about the relationship of Orestes Peña and Warren DeBruys in New Orleans, you know, and how DeBruys went with Lee Oswald to Dallas before the assassination, you know, and why Orestes Peña's entire
FBI almost his entire file was destroyed right before the HSCA, you know, and his HSCA interview testimony was repressed, you know, for until I believe the year 2000.
And only in this release of 2017, which we have talked about so many times before, and I have to go back to arrest Hispania.
And New Orleans and Warren DeBruys and what happened there, you know, as one of the keys to understanding what happened, you know, with Lee Oswald and this whole sheep dipping thing, you know, it happened in New Orleans and, you know, as DeBruys and, and this guy Smith, you know, from customs and immigration and all these guys that were hanging around with Lee in, in, in restaurants and You know, all over the place in New Orleans, you know, that's the key to the whole case.
You know, Gary, go ahead.
Habana Bar, remember the Habana Bar?
Yeah, I do.
I'm going to go there.
Next time I go to New Orleans, I'm going to go there and see if it's still there.
See if they have the plaque where it says Lee Oswald sat here.
So we'll find out.
Y'all want to leave the Wilhelm Otterman for next week?
Or would y'all like to do that?
Yeah.
I mean, look, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm so disheartened.
I'm so disheartened by this.
I couldn't bear for us to continue to discuss other issues.
This is just a calamity in my opinion.
Well, we went, we got us a good half hour in, we'll just call it a shorty and next week, let me just quickly, uh, take the screen share.
We're going to be talking about this man here.
And there's a document that was released by Joe Biden, and we'll be- Yeah, yeah, yeah, about Garrison, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good, okay, good, good, good.
We got something to look forward to.
Garrison, he interviewed, I told you guys, in Holland, he interviewed Garrison there, and we have the transcript of that right here as one of the new releases, and how Garrison went overseas You know, trying to show, I mean, we went overseas.
He didn't have to convince people over there.
But we're going to save that for the next week's show.
We're going to give away the show.
All right.
No, no, no.
But I have to mention, you know, because not only him, Oatman, I mean, Wilhelm, but also Joachim Joosten, the German guy who, My God, he practically solved the case within a year after it happened.
Even the FBI went and visited him to find out what his connections were, where he had been able to publish a couple of books on Lee Oswald and the entire case without Alright, we're gonna bring all that to you next week.
We're gonna call it early tonight.
This is JFK 266.
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