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Oct. 4, 2020 - Jim Fetzer
40:13
The Real Deal (3 October 2020): Nick Kollerstrom on Skripal II: The Plot against NordStream II
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So let's see what our focus, Jim.
This is Jim Fetzer in Madison, Wisconsin, with my dear friend and sometime collaborator, Nick Kohlerstrom in the UK, for a Real Deal Report, where Nick has uncovered a parallel between two assassinations that seem to have had the objective of Demonizing Russia and sabotaging a proposed pipeline between Germany and Russia that would make a major contribution to
World peace and stability by cementing relations between Europe and Russia where the players appear to be British agents.
Nick, I'm just very impressed that once again you seem to me to have uncovered something very significant.
Right, okay Jim.
Well I did the book The Great British Cripple Hoax a year or two back and These are two... they're so similar!
Both this alleged Novichok agent, both cases someone is allegedly poisoned with it, both cases they recover perfectly well, a few weeks time, but they're unconscious for a few weeks, then they recover, then they're quite okay, and...
The only difference between them is that in the case of this fellow, Alexei Navalny, he's able to speak afterwards and he denounces Russia.
He says Kremlin did it.
Whereas for the Skripal case, the fellow goes very silent.
We just heard his daughter speaking in London.
We never really get to the bottom of these stories, but there are allegations quickly made and they We don't get any proper evidence ever of what really happened.
As you say, this is a very crucial moment now.
If the Nord Stream 2 pipeline should just be completed, that would gradually build up trust between the two great nations of Russia and Germany.
It would stretch right across what used to be called the Iron Curtain, which so much distrust and hate and fear has been over the years and it undermined the whole confrontation that NATO is building up of Russia as being the enemy.
That is why America is desperate to prevent this.
Let's just remind ourselves Germany is still an occupied nation left over from World War Two.
It's got the armies of Britain and America are still technically they're still occupying Germany.
No peace treaty was ever signed and that is That is very much at the core of NATO that American British troops are in Germany and if this pipeline and natural gas could start to flow then it would gradually dissolve this very long-standing enemy image and we could get on with cultural developments in Europe without having this terrific image of the enemy which is
Which we don't really need.
I mean, the idea that Russia is still the enemy, I think it belongs to something a long time ago.
Yeah, it's certainly an historically antiquated conception that Hillary Clinton has sought to play upon here in the U.S.
for domestic political reasons, where finally, at long last, the mainstream media has acknowledged That Hillary invented the whole Russia hoax, claiming that Putin was supporting Trump and intervening in the election in 2016 to distract attention from her use of a private email server that has become a
A monster behind the scenes here for a year after a year after a year, Nick.
It's just appalling.
And when Hillary wanted all this dirt on Trump as an alleged Russian agent, he got British intel agents to do it.
Mr Steele, a former MI6 agent, brewed this all up and probably this fellow Sergei Skripal was involved in brewing up all that fake dirt on Trump.
He's the fellow who eventually got poisoned because it seemed likely he wanted to go back to Russia and British intelligence couldn't allow that.
So he got apparently poisoned and He's now forever silent.
The British intelligence keeps him as a prisoner.
We gather he's still alive, but he can't ever be allowed out to speak or go anywhere, and likewise his charming young daughter.
She's, you know, the two of them are made into unpersons.
They can't go back to Russia.
They can't even speak to their Russian relatives.
Anyway, let's move on.
I want to argue these two cases are so similar.
For example, the Skripal case, They initially said he was poisoned at a restaurant, he and his daughter, and then they fell ill a little while later on a park bench, okay?
And it's a deadly nerve agent.
And then nobody could quite believe some Russian coming into a restaurant with other people around and poisoning them.
So the story changed to back at their home.
Somebody put it on the door handle, these Russian agents.
So there had to be a three or four hour gap between poisoning them And them conking out.
Now we've got just the same thing with Navalny, right?
He, initially there's the story, oh somebody who's flying from Siberia, he's a politician, a sort of low-profile opposition politician in Russia, he was flying from a place called Omsk in Siberia, got on a plane, him and his colleagues, a whole bunch of aides, about half a dozen of them flying, and he suddenly conked out Very low blood sugar in the aeroplane, and it might be diabetes or something, we don't know.
And the Russian aeroplane made an emergency landing in the middle of nowhere, a place called Tomsk in Russia, and he was rushed to a hospital and they treated him, and they might have rescued his life, you know.
And So, initially the story which the aides put out on the same day when he conked out, that's the 20th of August, they put out the story, oh it must have been in a cup of tea at the airport where he was poisoned.
And that story lasted in all media sources for three weeks, okay?
Cup of tea at the airport, where he was poisoned, then It dramatically changes on the 17th of September.
That's nearly four weeks later and suddenly there's a whole story appears of his hotel room and there's some water bottles in his hotel room and those water bottles were laced with Novichok poison.
So the story changes.
So if it was from his hotel you've got a mystery At least four hours between taking the poison and conking out.
And toxicology experts stress that that is impossible.
If it was Novichok, he would fall out.
It would affect him at once.
It seems that we'd have seizures.
In effect, he hasn't really shown any of the symptoms of Novichok.
So we've got an absence of any credible source of where it comes from.
I mean, if it is water bottles in his hotel room, How were they planted so that nobody else notices them?
It's not explained how a deadly Novichok poison could get into his hotel room.
Right, well he's unconscious for several weeks.
He's taken on 22nd to a Berlin hospital.
The mysterious thing is, that right after he is taken to this hospital, what happens at this place called Tomsk, where the hospital is, a plane from Germany lands.
A special hospital plane.
Well, this is rather strange.
Who invited them?
And they wait there, and his aides are saying, look, we don't trust this hospital, we want him to be taken to Germany.
Right?
Now, how come Germany comes into the story?
The Aids are not German.
He's not German.
Why does a plane suddenly come from Germany, lands it in this airport, and demanding that this unconscious patient being treated in the hospital be moved and taken to Germany?
Yes, yes, yes.
Just to deepen the plot politically, to exacerbate The tensions between Germany and Russia artificially, admittedly, but nevertheless with clear intent.
Clear intent, Jim.
I mean, the whole meaning of this event, I suggest, is to sabotage the pipeline.
It is to change the heart and mind of German politicians so they think that Russia is doing some fiendish, you know, fiendish new poisoning of some opposition politician.
Otherwise, I mean, who authorised that plane?
His aides sitting around at the airport can't just phone up an airport and say, look, send us a plane.
This must be a very high-level act, I would have thought.
That if the unconscious Nivalny is being treated in hospital, as far as we know he's getting expert treatment, doctors are looking after him, suddenly a plane flies from Germany.
Well, I think that's a bit of a dead giveaway of Well, we'd like some more detail about this plane, and it could indicate that the whole thing is pre-prepared and pre-planned, right?
And we might also suspect that if he ever was given any novichok, which is doubtful, it might have been on that plane while flying out to Germany, you know?
You know, it's interesting, Nick, if they're gonna stage an attempted assassination, why they not carry through and actually kill the target.
Yeah yeah that is that's you've got exactly that question for both cases.
Skripal and they're both kind of renegade Russian agents.
This fellow Navalny is an opposition party member and he's got some some sort of focus or campaign for integrity in Russian elections or anti-corruption campaign.
Now, since the poison appears to be exaggerated and so forth, I mean, you're consulting experts and its toxicity is such that had it been bona fide, he would have been dead very, very soon.
Yeah, he would, yeah.
He, may we infer therefore, that he was a willing participant then in the fraud and perhaps that's the reason he wasn't in fact taken out?
That is quite possible.
It agrees, become a world center of, you know, political interest, My suggestion would be that he wasn't given any poison, he was just put under unconscious for several weeks, kept unconscious.
Whether or not he agreed to that, we probably won't be able to know.
It's kind of a high-risk thing to be a party to any venture like this, to be rendered unconscious for weeks, Nick.
I mean, you know, there's every reason you'd be apprehensive, you'd never come out of the coma.
Yeah, well, there's a lady who I think is, who most people suspect is being very crucial here, And the Daily Mail described her as the glamorous UK-based Navalny employee.
By the way, she's 33 years old and Navalny is 44 years old.
I'll just say that you tend to get these funny number patterns with Scripper.
Yulia Scripper was 33, wasn't she?
Anyway, she lives in London and she's very much working for what you might call anti-Russian And anti-Russian agents against the Kremlin government.
This is Maria?
Maria Pevchik.
She is said to be closely accompanying Navalny during his stay in Siberia, spending the nights in his hotel room.
She knows various Russian oligarchs and her father runs several biological laboratories.
is. She then put out the story when the bottles of poison appeared.
The bottle of poison is a strange story, sorry the bottles of water in his room,
that the novichok was on the outside of those bottles.
Very bizarre claim to make, as if he had absorbed the stuff through his hands.
But that is the final version of the story.
Now, I think she really needs to be interrogated more than anyone else, because for three weeks all sources were saying The story which the aides put out, that he was poisoned with a cup of tea at the airport.
OK?
Now, why was... First of all, given that all his aides were in the plane with him, and they downed at this airport, Tomsk, in the middle of nowhere, and there were no planes flying back to Siberia from there, because it's not a proper normal route, how did they suddenly get back to the hotel room?
The story is, Jim, that they rush to the hotel room and they get those bottles left behind in his room after he's left.
He left on the 20th to leave, and they have to get those bottles before the hotel cleans the room out.
Well, is that credible?
I wouldn't have thought it was at all, you know, and it needs some Russians or people to investigate this a bit.
Are they claiming that from that, they were in that Tomsk where the hospital analysis were being done, the hospital said no, there's no sign of poisoning, but they immediately decide, oh yes there is, for no particular reason, they decide that because they think he's an enemy of the state, Then they decide to rush all the way back to Siberia, and that's a big undertaking.
Get in a car, drive to the nearest airport, get a plane to this city that they came from, and then get a bus to the hotel.
I wouldn't have thought you could do that in less than a day or so.
It seems to be a major fault in their planning that they did not have medical experts who were going to confirm their story.
I mean, that blows it out of the water right there, Dick.
Yeah, I'd have thought that, first of all, I don't see how they can get back to the hotel soon enough to collect these alleged bottles left behind.
I mean, there's no way... These bottles in turn are allegedly in Berlin with this woman, Marina Pevcik, And Navalny's wife allegedly carrying the bottles all the way to Berlin.
So there's no evidence of those bottles, where they came from.
There's obviously no chain of custody.
I mean, you got the participants in the plot who are carrying the goods they want to use to prove it.
And I mean, what could be more dubious?
I would have thought that if by chance they had done all that, right, supposing on the 22nd that the Berlin people had analysed those bottles and found Novichok, there's no way they're going to not tell anyone and keep on with the cup of tea story.
If they'd done that, the world would have heard about the bottle of water pretty well straight away, wouldn't it?
You see what I'm getting at?
You can't have a A story of a company at the airport as a source of the poison, if they have been to all this trouble immediately and somehow got these bottles and analysed them.
So I think this story is very much out of kilter in where they claim that the poison came from.
And if this shows that his aides are somehow lying or involved in a deceptive story, Then do they themselves become suspects for whatever has happened?
So I would have thought that they need to be interrogated on this, that the source of the poison, the stories, is not really credible.
Okay.
Are British authorities looking into this, Nick?
I mean, if they are the ones who actually perpetrated these deeds.
Well, I think she has.
when she's in London it's evidence that she and a colleague have links with MI6 and work with them
and get the lowdown on various Russian politicians and there's no direct evidence of British
intelligence involvement but I'm saying this is sufficiently similar to the Skripal case.
And it's in every way against Russia's interest to do this.
I mean, to find out who's guilty, you ask who benefits from a deception like this.
Absolutely, Nick.
Absolutely, yes.
Russian government would have no motive.
In fact, it would be precisely the opposite.
They'd have a great inhibition, because they wouldn't want to disrupt the developing relations with Germany, especially in relation to the pipeline.
Yeah.
Now, after Germany had done this, done the analysis, allegedly, what happened is that this hospital, called Charité Berlin Hospital, somehow gave the samples to a NATO laboratory, Bundeswehr NATO laboratory.
So the analysis and the claim that Novacek was present was done by a NATO laboratory, sort of military-type medics in Berlin.
Which I think makes us rather suspicious.
And again it reminds us in the Scribble Affair, if you remember, the whole thing was right on the doorstep of Porton Down that was Britain's main biological warfare centre.
And there'd been a large military war games around Salisbury just over that week to do with chemical and biological warfare.
That looked as if the military was somehow doing something there and I think we've got something similar here with the Bundeswehr.
The NATO medical authorities are doing this analysis and then they refuse to give their results to Russia.
Russia obviously has a lot of data from this hospital and that what they did with Navalny's blood and urine,
and they're keen to share it and try and discuss what was found,
and Berlin will not do this.
So Russia keeps putting out requests.
Can we have the data on what basis has Berlin made this accusation?
And...
You know, Nick, in this and other cases, I've been struck that Russia appears to have
good character, pure intentions, a desire for the truth,
and then Western nations that are constantly perpetrating frauds, deceits, and deceptions.
The disrupt relations between Russia and Europe or the United States or other areas of the world.
I mean, to me, the pattern is just stunning when you look at the big picture that Russia is repeatedly being demonized when Russia is the good guys and it's the West that are the bad.
Yeah, it is strange the way things have developed in this century, as you say, with Lavrov, Russian foreign secretary Lavrov, a man of sterling integrity.
I'll just quote his polite comments when he made about Germany refusing to hand over the data.
He said, we are interested in receiving, if not directly, then through the OPCW, information that Germany is, for some reason, so painstakingly concealing.
The OPCW is the official supposed watchdog for chemical weapons and Germany made a big deal of allegedly giving data to this OPCW rather than giving it to Russia.
So this whole thing is being made into a big sort of political event with EU ministers and NATO ministers condemning Russia Based upon data that is not collectively shared, that's the thing.
Russia has asked for, you know, joint discussion of this and that's exactly what we had with the scribble story.
The allegations of Novichok poisoning, Russia kept saying, can we see the formula of what it is you claim to have found in the blood?
You know, can we have details?
And as regards who is developing Novichok, in the last few years, America has patented several types of Novichok.
If you remember when the Scribble Affair came out, nobody's quite sure what it was.
It wasn't an official toxin on the RPCW's list.
It was somewhat sort of semi-fictional type of concept.
So I think that America has patented things that are called forms of Novichok and Whatever it was that has been allegedly shown in his blood might be of this type.
With the Stripple Affair, the blood samples that were given after a huge delay to the OPCW, people suspected that Porton Down might have added some Novichok type substance to the blood.
The point of analysing a case like this is you have to do it immediately and there's no use waiting for several weeks when you know, the poison would have gone out of the system. So
now...
Nick, let me just ask, why would Germany be reluctant to share the evidence with Russia
if it were authentic? Meaning, number one, Russia obviously has a bona fide legitimate interest in
seen the evidence.
Number two, if it were authentic, Germany would obviously want to comply.
Number three, therefore, the German authorities must be party to the attempt to sabotage the pipeline project, meaning there has to be a divide in Germany Since the pipeline would never have agreed to had there been widespread opposition.
This appears, therefore, to be, you know, a masterpiece of duplicity going on here, but where the Germans are in a very peculiar compromised position.
They are, yeah.
They're very compromised.
And as I said, they're a very weak national government, despite their enormous economic power, because technically they're still an occupying nation with American forces occupying Germany.
Has Trump made any effort to alter that situation?
Well, he has pulled out some troops from Germany, hasn't he?
He has pulled out some troops from Germany and very notably, actually very commendable, Trump refused to condemn Russia a week or two ago.
He's been asked to condemn them for this poisoning and he wouldn't do so.
They were looking at the evidence and they weren't sure.
So I think that's very commendable, Trump's position on this.
We're getting the expose of the Russia hoax here, and elements of the FBI, the Department of Justice, and intelligence sources are being revealed.
So I think we can see there's a lot of disenchantment with Donald Trump, because he's not willing to play the game and allow himself to be manipulated by the intelligence agencies, including CIA and MI6.
Maybe, yeah, yeah, right.
Anyway, what's happened recently, beginning of this month, Lavalny has accused, he wakes up, he hasn't a clue, really, who did this to him or what happened.
That's what it looks like, and he accuses the Kremlin.
I mean, it may be he was complicit in all, but it sounds as if he just said the Kremlin did it.
Kremlin must have done it to him, and he doesn't know who else did it.
And then, The Russian government spokesman hit back saying the patient has Western intelligence services who work with him, somehow making this happen, and he unfortunately mentioned the CIA are working with him.
That's an appropriate revelation!
Well, it may be, but I don't think he can show that.
I'd be surprised if you can.
I would have thought it's more British intelligence in this case.
Ah yes, diverting attention to the CIA from the MI6.
Yeah, and so Navalny then challenged the government spokesperson and said he was going to take legal action and he demanded proof that he was working with the CIA and so that's the way it stands at the moment.
So we're in a We're waiting now to hear if the big moment comes and the pipeline is cancelled.
When will that be resolved?
Is there a government meeting on it?
Well, it was supposed to be completed last year, if you remember, and the Americans took out severe sanctions against the companies and individuals working on the pipeline, and there's various Swiss Swiss and Austrian firms that had to pull out from working on that pipeline and Russian firms took over.
So those Russian firms have taken over completing this pipeline and it's about 10 or 20 billion euros been spent on this.
And I mean some people are arguing is this really wise?
Does Germany really need this?
Because you see Germany's trying to come off nuclear power and also come off fossil fuels, coal, right?
That's its official policy.
To do that, I think it needs this gas supplied from Russia.
How could it do it without energy from Russia?
I mean, that sounds just preposterous, Nick.
Well, the answer is that America is offering far more expensive gas from Fracken, right?
That's the option.
That's the alternative.
Now fracking is environmentally quite catastrophic.
Yeah, I'm dismayed about fracking.
I mean, Trump has supported it in claiming, of course, it's made us energy independent, but it's very destructive to the environment, water and natural resources generally.
It ought to be prohibited internationally, absolute Yeah, right.
Well, that's a slightly different issue, but that is the option.
If Germany wanted to cancel this, that is what Mike Pompeo and the likes want to happen.
They want Germany to start using American so-called freedom gas.
I mean, you know, do me a favor.
And it's like 30% more expensive.
Well, the German people ought to be highly opposed to that.
They'll ultimately be paying for the difference, Nick.
Yeah, well it seems to me what we need now, the people most needed, are what are called conspiracy theorists.
People who see through the patterns of deception that are woven by those, you know, the military always weave these patterns of deception to create the enemy image.
they always need the hate and fear of ordinary people that they will hate and fear an enemy
and now the enemy is Russia. I think we should be referring to ourselves as conspiracy analysts, Nick.
That's a good one. Yeah. All right.
Because who could...
Who can resist those who are analyzing conspiracies to determine whether they're bona fide or fabricated, rather than acceding to the linguistic presumption that they're all fake?
Yeah, that's very good, Jim.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, well, as conspiracy analysts, I say we need, this needs to be an international thing, And we need people who can help us out with details of, say, that plane that suddenly turns up on that airfield on the 21st of August and announces that it's waiting.
It's just waiting on the airfield for the hospital to change its mind and let them take Navalny to Germany.
That is obviously, I would say, that's pretty obviously pre-arranged, but we'd like a bit more detail.
And then from, if possible, from the German hospital, it's called the Charitain Hospital, Did they actually receive samples and analyse samples from bottles of water, or not?
I suspect they didn't.
And if it's possible to get this kind of information from any German sources, Germany becomes very crucial here, because that's where the misinformation comes from.
And this lady, a pevchik, she brings the bottles of water, right, and then She and the bottles of water disappear.
No one knows where the bottles of water are now.
And she's disappeared.
She's gone back to London.
Apparently she's somewhere in London.
But she's very, very low profile.
It's very hard to get pictures of her or find out anything about her.
So I think she's the intelligence asset that's somehow got this whole thing to work.
That's my feeling.
Yeah.
Nick, you've written a wonderful piece about this, which I will be publishing in my blog at jamesfetcher.org.
Let me just pull out a couple paragraphs here for your comment, because they seem to me to epitomize the core of the issue.
Had they found the same toxin in the bottled water as in his blood?
The analysis was done by NATO medics in a chemical warfare laboratory.
This has to remind us of Porton Down, Britain's bio-warfare center, doing the skimple blood analysis of the Novichok, where it was widely suspected that they were more likely to have supplied the Novichok than to have detected it.
Russian medics had analyzed Navalny's blood and urine, where his coma could have been introduced by a diabetic condition of low blood sugar.
The OMS hospital report concluded chlorine esterase inhibitors were not detected in blood and urine, which meant no Novichok.
That seems to me to be very telling, Nick, and really at the core of the whole fraud.
Right, right.
There's a chap in Moscow, John Hammond, who's also writing articles about this, and he wrote a book about the Scribbles, so I feel if we could get his point of view, he'd have some valuable insight here.
I think there's a very crucial moment.
If this partner is able to go ahead, then Pewter will be able to develop a sort of civilized relation with Europe and we won't hear the war hawks so much.
Well you can of course imagine that the international oil companies are very keen to get their slice of the European German pie and want to defeat the Russian agreement with Germany and would do anything to do it to accomplish that goal Just to fatten their own pockets.
I mean, people like Pompeo are of course just stooges in these international debates.
He's, so far as I can assess, a totally corrupt person who ought never to be in a position like this.
But then we've had many other comparably morally compromised figures as Secretary of State, citing Hillary Clinton as the most egregious example.
So, you know, Nick, I think you once again put your finger on a really vital issue and dissect it with great skill and aplomb, for which I applaud you.
Well, I'm not an expert, Jim, but if you do post it up, let's hope you've got some clued-up readers who can make some comments and contributions that will carry this forward a bit, you know?
Yes, yes, yes, I agree.
I think as conspiracy analysts, we need to show politicians need to understand that we can explain the deeper meaning of these fraudulent events.
Yeah, I think so too Nick.
I think it's absolutely sensational and You're doing great work on this, and you have on so many others, and I'm just tremendously impressed, really.
This is excellent work.
Is there any more you'd like to add, particularly about how you foresee the German resolution of the issue?
Obviously, they're under great pressure from the U.S.
using this concocted story to try to defeat the pipeline, I mean, who has invested the two, is it 20 billion euros you're suggesting has been invested?
Something like that, yeah.
I think it's both Germany and Russia.
So if this isn't going forward, Germany and Russia are left holding a 20 billion euro bag?
That's what they aim, yeah.
That's just terrible, Nick.
They just want to wreck it.
Do you think this phony story is sufficient to achieve that effect?
I mean, this was relatively easy to contrive.
They did a sloppy job of it.
It's not at all convincing.
Are German authorities going to nevertheless feign to be persuaded that this should lead to the demolition of a huge project with immense potential for the future, including Better relations between Europe and Russia.
Yeah, I mean, Novichok is now looking like the world's most ineffective nerve poison.
I mean, the two big sensational times it was used, in both cases the person recovered perfectly well afterwards, so it's a kind of joke really.
This thing should be a joke in the absurdity of what has allegedly happened of Do you have a copy of your Skid Pro book at hand?
Do you have a copy of your Skid Pro book at hand?
I think it would be good to show it.
I think I should...
You want to send me?
Very good.
Well, I think, Jim, I want to add this on.
This is Novichok Part 2.
I want to put this in, right?
Yeah, for a second edition of the book.
Yeah, so if you're Your learned viewers can make any comments about this blog, you know.
Send me the cover, Nick.
I'll use it as the featured image for the blog.
Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Wonderful.
Okay, Jim.
Well, I think we've covered most of it.
I mean, it's a story which will develop, won't it?
Oh, yes, absolutely.
I regard you and Noli Namagard as two of the foremost conspiracy analysts we have today in this world, and you're doing such good work, Nick.
I want to thank you.
Thank you.
We can, Jim, yeah.
Well, I'm heartbroken that I won't be at your conference in November, but it seems just too dangerous for me to come over, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In person, I understand, but we're glad we'll have you with a video presentation, Nick, which is much to be desired under the circumstances.
I would love to see you again, my friend.
We've had marvellous visits in the UK in the past.
Right.
Okay, Jim.
Well, let's leave it at that, shall we?
Yes, yes, yes.
This is Jim Fetzer, your host on The Real Deal, with my very special guest today, Nicola Strum, giving us the sequel to The Skip Row, which seems to have vast potential ramifications, let us hope.
This fraudulent effort does not achieve its intended purpose.
Thank you for watching.
Thank you, Nick.
Great job once again.
Okay, Jim.
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