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Aug. 21, 2020 - Jim Fetzer

01:41:53

The Fetz Presents: Dave Gahary (20 August 2020)

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	This is Jim Fetzer on the Fetz Presents, where I'm very pleased to have as my special guest tonight a dear friend of mine.
	We have been collaborators for many years now.
	He's a man in whom I have tremendous confidence, and he just happens to have done a tremendous amount of research on the USS Liberty, which for those who may be unaware, Was an American spy ship that was subject to attack by the Israeli Air Force in 1967, when it was stationed off the coast of Egypt, maintaining surveillance on interaction between the Israelis and the Egyptian army.
	And there have been so many questions that have arisen about what happened there.
	Let me just mention by way of preface that tonight is a historic evening because for the first time in American history, a literally brain-dead candidate is going to be accepting the nomination of his party.
	A man who's demonstrably cognitively incompetent and where A psychiatrist from Norway has said that he's terribly concerned because he appears to be Digressing, deteriorating at a very rapid rate.
	Just to mention in relation to John in the chat room, yes, I think Michael's five o'clock shadow was showing, and yes, and if he were to be the candidate, I think it would be a major scandal.
	I've been reporting for quite a few years now that Michelle Obama was born Michael LaVaughn Robinson, and that You know, he played football for Oregon State, that he claimed then that he was a woman trapped in a man's body when he transferred to Princeton.
	He adopted the female persona, called himself Michelle Robinson, and of course has subsequently masqueraded where a physician who was with her on the campaign trail,
	Walked in on her in a trailer taking a leak standing up and felt he could no longer conceal the fact that Michelle Obama is not a man who underwent a sex transformation, but a man with breast implants and a huge shaving bill.
	I have done enough research to be completely confident wherever I speak So I have intermittently on probably at least a dozen occasions minimally been producing photographs and evidence where John's observation in the chat room that his five o'clock shadow was showing I think is spot on.
	We have photographs of him sitting next to Michael Bloomberg and it's Big Mike and Little Mike because Michelle towers over him with those square shoulders befitting her as a
	Football player at Oregon State and she is one of the four I have believed are going to replace Joe Biden before the debate since Biden couldn't possibly stand up to Donald Trump, namely Andrew Cuomo of New York or Gavin Newsom of California or Michelle Obama or Hillary Clinton.
	Now, I think the Gavin Newsom problem is that Kamala is already the vice presidential.
	They're both from California.
	Kamala is not only not going to do the Democrats any electoral advantage, but her nomination appears to have backfired because we already have reports Polling among Black Americans show 33% are less inclined now to vote for the Democrats and more inclined to vote for Trump than before appointment.
	Now, tonight, Dave, we find ourselves Interrupted on this show, are there some reason why they don't want us, or me in particular, to reach my intended audience?
	So I just want to mention in advance that given the nature of this historic occasion, Dave and I anticipate going for an hour and a half to talk about the Liberty and other events, as occasion may allow, and then adjourn to watch
	Joe Biden, remember now, every time you see a camera switch it's because Biden made some kind of gaffe or lapse and they had to switch to a different camera and begin recording again.
	So you can count on seeing quite a few camera cuts when Joe Biden makes his presentation and that's the explanation.
	Yes, yes, John, I know.
	We froze up and it happened, you know, with my last guest, with Jack Mullen, and I expect it'll happen again for the reasons I've been explaining.
	Meanwhile, let me introduce my guest.
	I'm just so delighted to have here Dave Gehry, I know you're an old Navy man.
	You served on a nuclear submarine.
	Give us a little about your background and how you got drawn into the study of the USS Liberty.
	Sure, Jim.
	Thanks.
	And it's great to be here.
	And, uh, you know, we do go back quite a bit and we we've done some interesting work together.
	Uh, and I'm proud of it all.
	And I, um, I was born and raised in New Jersey.
	And you, of course, have been there in your life in Princeton, which is a beautiful town.
	And at 19, I went into the Navy.
	And I remember I went to the recruiter and I asked him what's the toughest thing I could do or someone could do in the Navy without being an officer enlisted.
	And they said, uh, nuclear, uh, nuclear power and submarines.
	So I said, well, let's give it a shot.
	And it was a long process.
	He had to sign up for six years and because it was two years of schooling and prior to Admiral Rickover changing some things when, uh, when someone went through the Naval nuclear power program, after they got out of the Navy, they could get a, um, An associate's degree in nuclear engineering, just automatically from what we had learned.
	But they changed that, which was unfortunate because I didn't go in that direction.
	If I would have had that available, I might have gone in a different direction.
	And maybe it's not unfortunate, I don't know.
	But I served in the Navy aboard a nuclear sub, the USS Skate.
	SSN 578, which was the third built nuclear sub after the Nautilus and the Seawolf.
	And after I got out of the Navy, I went to college in Tucson, Arizona.
	It was one of the few schools that offered nuclear and energy engineering as a degree.
	But I found out because they didn't let me get any of the credits from serving in the Navy that I wasn't interested in starting from scratch because I had already operated a couple of nuclear power plants.
	So I ended up going a different direction into the direction of history and I thought I would teach and it didn't turn out that way.
	But I had during that era in the late 90s When a lot of people were trading stocks, I had also got involved in that and tried my hand at it.
	I had gotten into the business before that and was licensed and I thought that I was good at it.
	I was having some luck, but really it wasn't that I was good at it.
	It was that As they say in the parlance of the market, a rising tide lifts all boats.
	So when the market was going up as it is now, which many people would be shocked to see that because a lot of people are suffering.
	And why would the stock market go up when people are suffering?
	It doesn't make sense but it does make sense because what's bad for Main Street is good for Wall Street and vice versa.
	So I was just lucky and then all of a sudden the stock market was changing the way that it was functioning and I wasn't making the money that I thought I could make and it just didn't make sense.
	It wasn't logical.
	So that's what really started me on my quest to find out Who was doing the things that were preventing the market from functioning in a logical fashion?
	Of course, if I had started doing it now, in this type of environment, it would have been all different because it's nuts now.
	Hitting record after record while millions, multi-millions of people are out of work and companies are going bankrupt.
	It's just, it's counter-intuitive.
	So, what happened was that I had began to study and research And reading the Wall Street Journal cover to cover for many years and I got to the point where in the past I had called up these wall and it was different.
	This is before really the Internet took off even though the Internet was released for commercial use in 92.
	This was before email was prominent and you know the Internet was in the position that it's in now.
	I would contact these Wall Street Journal reporters and ask them questions on their articles to get clarification.
	And it got to the point where I was calling them up and giving them the information that they should have put in their articles.
	How receptive were they to your making inquiries?
	I mean, they like to think they're, you know, untouchable.
	Well, they were okay.
	Like I said, this was a different time.
	That was an era when they cared about the truth.
	Yeah, a little more, yeah.
	And the Wall Street Journal has always been better than...
	Yes.
	Actually, the Journal has the best reputation for quality news reporting of any.
	I mean, its editorial policy was another matter.
	It was always very conservative, though today it would be far more reasonable than the mainstream media, which is overwhelmingly liberal.
	But you're right.
	Historically, the Wall Street Journal has had a very high reputation for accuracy of reporting.
	Yes, yes, that's right.
	And no, they were fine.
	You know, I even, living in New Jersey at the time, I would even go in and meet with them sometimes to discuss certain things.
	But I was kind of very interested in finding out who the bad guys were behind the scene.
	And so I zeroed in on the New York Stock Exchange and I created a website and I would write Not every every night, but I would end up writing late at night wasn't like I was planning on doing it or I Would say well, I'm gonna write now.
	I'm gonna put up some posts I was kind of driven to do it and it would just pour out of me.
	Well, it was like I wasn't even writing it it was odd and I would just these words would pour out of me and the website garnered a Kind of a cult following.
	And then I had felt that I had learned a lot and the next logical step was going to the next level and that next level would be radio.
	And I never did radio.
	I didn't know anyone on radio.
	I didn't have any money to go on radio, but I was driven And again, it wasn't really me doing it.
	It felt like I was driven to do it.
	And I ended up meeting the father of day trading, a guy by the name of Harvey Houghton.
	He created day trading for folks.
	It was when the, so for example, the New York Stock Exchange is what they call an open outcry market.
	It's actually an exchange where there's people on the floor, You know, offering stocks for sale.
	They're screaming.
	We've all seen the pictures and the movies and like the Nasdaq is a stock market, not an exchange.
	It's all electronic.
	And he found a way, Harvey found a way to get in between the bid and the ask.
	Because it used to be large.
	Now it's in decimals.
	But remember, it used to be in fractions, like a quarter of a dollar.
	So 25 cents.
	Then the SEC, the Securities Exchange Commission, ordered it to be knocked down to finally a sixteenth.
	They called them teenies.
	And then eventually the decimalization.
	So he found a way to get in between those large spreads as a day trader.
	And make money off of that.
	So he was very significant and him and I had hit it off and he was a very wealthy man and we together created a studio in his office and we would broadcast from there on some terrestrial radio stations in New York, New Jersey and Philadelphia.
	This was when I was in New Jersey and his offices were up in North Jersey.
	It was nice.
	It was nice.
	It lasted for about a year.
	And then 9-11 got in the way.
	And everybody was shocked at that time.
	And so he asked me what I thought.
	And I said, we should probably take a step back.
	And so we kind of, you know, separated at that point.
	And when all the dust cleared, literally and figuratively, in Manhattan, I still felt the need to get on the radio.
	And I contacted one of the people One of the radio stations in Manhattan, which was part of the Pacifica Radio Network, which is listener-supported non-commercial.
	Like, for example, Bonnie is on that station now, WBAI.
	I think she may have been censored, Dave.
	She's wonderful, though.
	We're talking about Bonnie Faulkner, Guns and Butter, one of the most famous shows on radio.
	I thought she was back on, but yeah, they're very volatile because of who's behind the scenes and who's controlling it.
	But there are a couple of Pacifica radio stations, I think one in Houston, one in San Francisco, KPFK, I think it is.
	But I was on WBAI and I had a show on Mondays called, instead of on the corner of Wall and Broad, where the New York Stock Exchange is located, it was called on the corner of Wall and Fraud.
	Oh, I love it!
	Yeah, it was good.
	And I had, you know, a bunch of big guests.
	That's where I interviewed Hillary Clinton for that show.
	I actually met her.
	I didn't interview her over the radio or microphone.
	You lucky guy!
	Yeah, I don't know about that.
	You know, John Corzine, Arthur Levitt, the former chairman of the SEC.
	I interviewed a bunch of people because when you're on terrestrial radio, you know, they're more inclined to come on as guests.
	So I did that for a little while and then I evolved and wanted to go beyond Wall Street and find out more about who were the people behind the scenes.
	And that's really how I got to the point where I am now.
	And of course, One of the significant parts of it was that I started to write for American Free Press and the Barnes Review for about 10 years.
	I just resigned from that position last November because I just don't have the time.
	But one of the significant parts of my progress was when you, Jim, told me over Skype about this fellow Wolfgang Halbig.
	And that he was simply asking questions about Sandy Hook.
	And he got a visit from a couple of his local homicide detectives in Florida.
	And I remember when you told me that, I thought that doesn't make sense.
	I said, would you mind if I interviewed the guy?
	And you gave me his contact info.
	And of course, I did that.
	And just by pure chance, the interview I did with him, because of you telling me, that went viral.
	And when it was released on the internet, it was released later at night.
	And he began to get calls from Europe, from listeners who were also asking these questions about Sandy Hook.
	And were listening to what Wolfgang had to say, because you know how he is, he gives out his phone number and his address.
	He's not afraid.
	And same with you and myself.
	I don't care.
	A lot of people are afraid of, you know, being doxxed or whatever it might be, but obviously we're not hiding.
	And your address and my address and his address are all over the internet.
	So a lot of people Had hooked up with Wolfgang and they were very excited that somebody was, you know, wanted to ask questions about this event that they too had questions about.
	So that was significant.
	Of course, we went up to Sandy Hook, you and I and Wolfgang and people from all across the country who we didn't know that they were coming.
	You know, they just, they just showed up.
	They heard that we were all going and, and I went and covered it for the newspaper.
	And that was a very important trip, very significant.
	A lot of things were revealed on that trip.
	I think primarily for me was, remember when we sat out in front of the firehouse for all those hours while we were waiting, which was very revealing that we are expected to believe that there were children walking past that huge, remember that huge driveway in the firehouse?
	They walk past the firehouse onto a street with no sidewalks where cars speed to walk up the hill to go to the house on the right where Gene Rosen was waiting to play patty cake with them and not call the authorities to say there's a bunch of kids in my house, what do you want me to do?
	Yeah, the official story from Gene, depending on the telling, is that actually a bus driver dropped off either four or five or six kids And then he took them in, and he gave them orange juice and stuffed animals to play with, and gradually they told him their story about how their teacher was dead.
	And this Gene Rosen, who'd been doing, you know, gun control lectures for FEMA before, and who actually has acting credits, did a very poor job on this occasion, Dave.
	And of course, his whole story is Completely incredible because no bus driver would drop children off at the residence of someone who is not their parent or guardian.
	And of course he was neither.
	So I mean the story was just fantastic.
	Makes no sense.
	Makes no sense.
	So thank you for clarifying that.
	And a lot of people all around the world are still unsure about this event.
	So that was significant.
	And another part of What has happened to me and my trail on the truth or to the truth was when you told me in November of 2015 that Amazon, you had released Nobody Died at Sandy Hook in October and it was selling like hotcakes and then all of a sudden it was banned.
	Which I thought was kind of odd.
	Of course, this was in the early stages of book banning.
	And that was probably one of the first books to, one of the most significant books to be banned.
	Yeah, it was.
	It was a standalone, and would you believe that, what is that they call it, Project Censored out of Sonoma State in California?
	Didn't publish a word about it that year, Dave.
	I mean, Alex Jones even had a piece in Infowars.
	Mike Adams, Natural News, had three articles, including an interview he did with me.
	recognized this was an enormous disturbing development in terms of freedom of speech and freedom of the press at the time Amazon had 20 bucks about Sandy hook the other 19 of which were all in conformity with the official narrative but the one book that disputed it where I brought together 13 experts including six current retired PhD professors That was too much!
	And they took it down, where I immediately released it for free as a PDF, as you well know.
	And now a good friend of mine who follows these has told me it's been downloaded at least 10 million times, which I dare say, Dave, is more than it would have ever sold at Amazon, even at the rate of nearly 500 in that less than a month before it was banned.
	And that's a lot, 500, because when we released it at Moonrock Books in the beginning of December, we did about 1,000 books, which we got out that month.
	And I don't know if I ever told you about what they did, the post office.
	I probably did, but I'll tell you.
	Oh, I'm not sure, Dave.
	Remind me.
	Yeah, what happened was that we got out Over a thousand orders, which was a Herculean effort to get that many books out there right around Christmas.
	And we were working, I remember, we were working on that on Christmas Eve of 2015.
	And so the books had all got out and at some point we were getting emails asking where the orders were.
	And I, this was before I realized that I had to, you know, really be like a fly on you-know-what and pay attention to the post office.
	Anyway, what happened was I told, I said, these were shipped.
	I don't know.
	And I eventually, of course, I went to my local station where they were shipped out of.
	And I remember one of the fellas who was, Had helped me on a few things.
	He's since retired, but he said that he found out what happened to all of the books.
	What they did was they brought them from here, and I'm in the Florida Panhandle in Crestview, and they take them and they brought them to Jacksonville, which is on I-10 all the way out east.
	And there's a big facility there.
	And They left the truck, the tractor trailer truck, the trailer part of it, in their parking lot for one month with the books in there.
	This is so outrageous, Dave.
	This is so scummy.
	Oh yes.
	This is the government for God's sake.
	Yes.
	Well, you know, and it wasn't just that.
	That was my first introduction to how the post office could Manipulate, you know, your deliveries.
	But that same facility in Jacksonville, I uncovered what they were doing to our orders because it was obvious after a certain amount of time, because then I was really paying attention to it.
	And I found out that the orders would leave here, go to Jacksonville, and they would sit there for 10 days.
	So every order was sitting there for 10 days.
	And so I had gotten to the point where I developed a contact there.
	And, you know, I would ask him, this was before I recognized the 10 day pattern.
	And I would say, hey, this particular, you know, tracking number, it's, you know, here, is there a way and he would like kind of You know, jostle it loose and get it on its way.
	So there was some kind of thing he would do to do that.
	Then after about two years, I remember I said, you know, Tony, I've noticed that these books now, these packages are for some reason, all of them are just waiting 10 days.
	It's like they're getting them and they're putting them in the corner for 10 days.
	And they're like, okay, it's 10 days.
	Let's get the book and send it out.
	I said, do you think that?
	Because I had been asking him all this time.
	I said, do you think that there's something going on that this just isn't normal?
	And he would always say, no, you know, he wouldn't give me like the satisfaction of saying, you know, you're right.
	Something's not right here.
	He'd always like answer in like a mild, you know, unsurprised, you know, tone.
	And so, at that point, I got angry.
	Nothing to see here.
	Just move along.
	Yeah.
	These aren't the droids you're looking for.
	Exactly.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	So, and you know me, Jim.
	I'm nice.
	And, you know, I never... You're a very patient person, David.
	You have one of the best dispositions of any person I've ever known in my life.
	Thank you, Jim.
	Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm calm and I...
	A word I never used in my life with anyone, I don't even think I wrote it, was the word platitudes.
	And I told him that he was, through email, that he was giving me platitudes.
	Yes.
	And that I'm, right now, I am, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to open an investigation right now.
	Because I was expecting him to say, yes, you're right.
	That 10 day thing is weird.
	Let's open an investigation.
	He didn't.
	And I mean immediately, from when I told him that in email, although I have spoken with him prior, immediately the next day, every package went in and out that same day.
	No kidding!
	Yeah, so it was 10 days sitting there for all that time, then all of a sudden when I say I'm opening the investigation, and he had to like open the investigation, I couldn't.
	Immediately the packages so they were they were obviously doing this.
	Yes, of course.
	So since that time, you know, we haven't had those type of issues the the bad part of the UN we were hearing a lot about the USPS now, which is mostly a bunch of crap because of the Democrats, but the USPS, you know, sometimes they could get a package from here to California in two days.
	Sometimes it takes two weeks.
	We actually had a package that was supposed to, but usually they're good.
	But because of this coronavirus nonsense, things are not functioning properly.
	We had a package that was going from here in the Panhandle of Florida to Melbourne, Florida, to a Sunset Avenue.
	And it went from here to Sunset Avenue in San Francisco.
	So, I remember when I found out about it because what happened was the fellow who ordered the book, who's a big fan of yours, he got a call from a lady in San Francisco who opened up the package and saw his name on the packing slip and the phone number.
	And she called him to say, I have your book.
	I mean, you're talking across the entire country.
	Here's Melbourne, Florida.
	Here's San Francisco.
	You know, I mean, if it went from, you know, Key West to Alaska, that would be further.
	But I mean, you're talking far.
	How did they, because they had the same street, Sunset Avenue in San Francisco and Sunset Avenue in Melbourne, Florida.
	How could they screw that up?
	But they did.
	Especially in the era of zip codes, Dave.
	There's no way that could happen.
	Well, and everything was perfect.
	Right.
	So I remember when I, when I found out about it, I told the person in charge of the station, You know, no, that's impossible.
	That can never happen.
	And then I proved it and they were shocked.
	So, uh, the post office, you know, overall it's good, but there are times when it does mess up.
	Now, but Dave, uh, this was corruption.
	Well, this was, this was a deliberate sabotage.
	Absolutely.
	A hundred percent.
	Uh, that's what it was.
	And that's exactly what it was.
	So, um, Right now we have two obvious outstanding orders.
	The first one was placed on April 18th.
	It still hasn't arrived.
	Now this is because of this coronavirus.
	So the last update we got, previous to the last one, was May 2nd, and it sat there for three months with no change.
	Of course, I contacted the post office, printed it out, tried to get something.
	All of a sudden it updated to August 5th, that it was going from here to Hungary, to a doctor who ordered a book.
	So they held it up for all that time because of this coronavirus nonsense, obviously for political reasons, and probably to, you know, to what's going on now, to accommodate what they're trying to do now.
	I would imagine they were told just slow everything down.
	How hard is it to get a package and say, okay, here, okay, move it along, right?
	I mean, if we, if we were in an office, okay, well, this package is going to Hungary, all right, get it on that plane.
	Get it to Hungary.
	So, April 18th.
	It still hasn't arrived, but it's in Hungary on August 5th.
	And June 23rd, going to New Zealand.
	And that was hung up for a long time.
	It still hasn't arrived yet.
	It's in Tokyo, or it was in Tokyo on August 7th.
	So, the post office is a real... I guess they're like people who watch baseball and I don't, but like the New York Mets, they're a real heartbreaker, you know?
	I mean, the post office is a heartbreaker.
	You know, Jim, I've screamed about it, you, many times.
	Well, it's supposed to be non-political.
	It's supposed to be performing a service for American citizens.
	And the fact that there could be an intervention like this is simply disgraceful.
	Yes, it is.
	It is a disgrace.
	It's a complete disgrace.
	So, you know, I've learned a lot.
	And, you know, it's been really aggravating the post office out of all of the all of the parts of the job.
	It's really aggravating.
	Jim, are we, are folks able to access this interview live?
	Oh sure, it's all good.
	It's live stream, Dave.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	How do they do that?
	Is there like a link or anything?
	Well, it goes out over four or five different streams, but if you went to jimtheconspiracyguy.com, you can watch it there, for example.
	Okay, good.
	Someone's asking me about this, and I'm just going to give this to them now.
	By the way, Dave, of course, you know, in relation to Wall Street, in your modesty, you did not mention the fact that you are, to my knowledge, the only person to have prevailed in a lawsuit against Wall Street.
	You must include that in your biographical sketch.
	Yeah, I'm sorry.
	I should have.
	What happened was when I was, when I was writing on my website, And I called my website, instead of the wallstreetjournal.com, or not the, but wallstreetjournal.com, it was called wallstreetjovial.com.
	And jovial because the people on Wall Street are happy because they're making money.
	And the way that they make money, at least at that time, and they still do it, of course, is by trading in front of the customer.
	So, you know, I was afforded The great opportunity to spend an entire day on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
	So I had a girlfriend whose cousin had a seat on the New York Stock Exchange and I asked her and she introduced me to him and he actually took me There, he said, there you go.
	He said he had to go do stuff like, you know, just meet with, just enjoy yourself.
	So I was basically on the floor like you see on CNBC, you know, with all those characters, Art Cashin and all these fellas.
	And this was in the late 90s, probably 98.
	And so I was able to visit with these people and also hang out at what are called specialist posts.
	You know, these are individuals who specialize in a certain stock or a certain number of stocks and then people who want to buy or sell would come to this specialist.
	They physically walk over and trade with the specialist and the specialist ostensibly got their beginning when one of these stock traders back in like the 70s or the 1800s had broke his leg and he couldn't move so he had to stay in one place and that was the the beginnings of the specialist in the New York Stock Exchange.
	And I saw that the specialists could move stocks up and down.
	I remember one of them that I was with he said You know, well, he was trading a stock, one of his stocks that he controlled.
	And I said, why did it go down?
	And he said, because I made it go down.
	So he was like proud of it, you know, that they could do that.
	So they do manipulate things like that.
	And they still do, of course.
	But now it's mostly computers and it's very quick and, you know, it's tough to tough to...
	The tiniest fraction of a second turns out can make millions of dollars a difference, Dave.
	It's just astounding.
	Exactly.
	That's exactly right.
	That's exactly right.
	So what happened was I had started to write and I drew the attention of the New York Stock Exchange.
	And in August of 2000, actually 20 years ago, I remember a buddy of mine who I had met online, In one of these stock trading boards, he said, hey, congratulations.
	I said, what?
	He said, you're being sued by the New York Stock Exchange.
	Are you kidding me?
	That's an occasion for a celebration.
	Right, right.
	And I said, what?
	And he said, yeah.
	And he showed me the link.
	And what happened was that on these stock message boards, when you would go into them to post messages, You would pick a, you know, a nom de guerre, and some people would pick Alan Greenspan, some people would pick Bill Clinton at that time, and I picked the name of the chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, thinking that people would know who he was, Richard Grasso or Dick Grasso.
	I had different variations of it, and it turned out they were going after this Dick Grasso And Dick Grasso was going after Dick Grasso.
	And what they did was they filed a suit, a federal lawsuit, in the Southern District of New York, which is the district that hears all of the big Wall Street fraud cases, like Ivan Boesky or Michael Milken or whatever it might be, in Lower Manhattan.
	And what they had to do was they had to file or issue a subpoena to the internet service provider At the time, that was America Online that I was using to find out my identity.
	So they found out my identity, and they filed the lawsuit against me.
	That was in August of 2000.
	9-11 got in the way.
	And what specifically was the lawsuit for?
	Your use of his name?
	Yeah, they were citing the Federal Lanham Act, L-A-N-H-A-M, which is like a trademark act, a trademark law.
	And saying that, well, I'm posting as Dick Grasso, and people would confuse me with the nonsensical things that I would post with the chairman of the New York Stock Exchange, and I was actually hurting their business.
	Of course, it's ridiculous, but that was what they used.
	It was a slap suit, a strategic lawsuit against the public.
	Just as I was hit with by the so-called Leonard Posner.
	Right, exactly.
	What happened was, you know, I had never been involved in lawsuits or anything like this.
	And at the time when these John Doe lawsuits were prevalent, there was an organization that hooked up John Doe defendants with lawyers who would represent them pro bono.
	So somebody, they knew about it before I did too.
	And they contacted me and said, here's a list of lawyers.
	They're going to represent you.
	Anyway, I found a lawyer in Manhattan and when I first met her, I remember I was explaining to her that You know, the New York Stock Exchange was created on May 17, 1792, under a buttonwood tree, by 24 brokers and merchants, and they created their own private club, so they could basically cheat everybody else.
	Nice!
	And that was the same way it exists today.
	Today!
	Today!
	This is the evolution of the Cheaters Club!
	Right!
	The 24 under a buttonwood tree, and she thought I was nuts, but then she realized that I was right.
	And then she defended me and we went in front of a district, a U.S.
	District Judge Robert L. Carter, who passed recently, I think last year.
	He was one of the black lawyers who argued in front of the US Supreme Court for the 1954 Brown versus Board of Education.
	Wow.
	So he was a man of integrity.
	Yes.
	You were very fortunate, Dave, to get an honest judge.
	Absolutely.
	But he was very old at the time in his mid to late 80s.
	And I don't think he even was able to write that 30 page opinion, which came out in April Oh, it would have been his law clerk.
	Yes, exactly.
	Or clerks.
	Yeah.
	And so what happened was that because 9-11, when 9-11 happened, it kind of stalled the case out.
	Sure.
	But the judge issued this 30-page opinion saying that even though some of the things that were said in these chat rooms were ridiculous and revolting by Gehary, he's protected by the First Amendment.
	That's right.
	And there's actually a case that I was just informed of today by a colleague of mine by the name of Henry Herskovitz.
	I love it, Dave.
	Congratulations.
	He prevailed in it, the same thing.
	And we could talk about that in a little bit.
	But at any rate, I won.
	I didn't win anything, but I won the case.
	Yeah, well, I love it, Dave.
	Congratulations.
	Obviously, your attorney was very good as well.
	Very good.
	But I had to bring her along because she didn't know anything.
	So part of it was educating her about... Yes, yes, yes.
	Just as I have my attorneys about Sandy Hook.
	Now you know, you know, before you didn't know.
	So it was, it was very significant for me.
	And one of the things I guess that makes me different from a lot of folks, I have a lot of confidence in At least in my situation in the legal system.
	Of course, there are some things that don't turn out the way that you think they're going to.
	But for me, anything I've been involved in has turned out okay.
	Of course, I've interviewed Sidney Powell.
	Do you know who she is?
	Yes, yes, indeed.
	She's been representing Michael Flynn, who was being abused by a law firm with ties to the Deep State before Sidney came on the scene.
	And my dear colleague, Scott Bennett, a former Army intel and PSYOPS officer, was the one who tipped off Sidney as to what was going on and why this was a huge mistake.
	And Dave, we're being, you know, I want everyone out there to know that there are, you know, selective interruptions here.
	Selective interruptions here when we get to certain key junctures, but that the entire program, uninterrupted, will be published at JimTheConspiracyGuy.com Tomorrow or the next day, so anticipate you'll be able to see the whole show.
	But it's very interesting, Dave, that when we get to very specific, delicate subjects, that's when things go down.
	Yeah, I've experienced that, as you know.
	doing interviews uh you know I sometimes I've done interviews and I've had to call back the guests 10 times and they said they've never they've never experienced anything like that yes yeah yeah there there is there is the interference and they're behind the scenes of course they're in the back door of all of these systems yes that's right yeah yeah it's really true
	You can't actually keep them out just because you change your password isn't gonna disrupt them the least.
	No, not at all.
	And just like the PROMIS software in the 1980s, which has been detailed extensively, you know, the Israelis are in the back door, you know, technologically of A lot of these systems, if not all.
	So, I'm not surprised that you're having difficulty there.
	So, you know, that happened with the New York Stock Exchange and then I, as I said, I wrote for American Free Press and I've interviewed hundreds of people and done, you know, hundreds of articles and... Let me just say, Dave, you're a wonderful Host during an interview.
	You do a wonderful job of interviews.
	You're very thoughtful.
	You give your guests ample opportunity to speak.
	I was delighted that your conversation with Wolfgang was such a success because in many ways it was that interview that put Sandy Hook in the consciousness of a whole lot of Americans who heretofore have been completely oblivious that there was anything askew.
	Yeah, I think it was.
	And that's why somehow it went viral.
	And you can't predict that, but it went viral.
	And yes, Wolf really got put on the map because of that.
	And he's still going.
	He's still going strong.
	So very, very interesting how it's all unfolded.
	And of course, getting back to You know, the Navy, which you asked me about, being in the Navy, of course, I didn't know anything about the USS Liberty.
	Although when I was doing interviews and writing articles for American Free Press, I was introduced to some Liberty survivors.
	And when I found out about it, of course, I was outraged.
	And I, you know, interviewed Phil Turney and a few times.
	And then Phil had contacted me again in August, it was probably around this time, 2015, five years ago.
	And just for the benefit of the audience, we're talking about Dave interviewing actual survivors of the attack who had been aboard the USS Liberty when the Israelis sought to sink it in the Mediterranean Sea.
	Yes, and of course, you know, that's something that is up for debate as well, the sinking part.
	Because of the information, which we'll talk about.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	In fact, I was going to say, for honesty and advertising, we do need to talk about liberty.
	So I thought you did a very skillful transition, my friend.
	Go ahead, lay it out.
	How would you begin?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So when I first started to Get involved in it.
	It was precipitated by Phil, who, like I said, five years ago, he wanted to do something.
	He didn't quite know what it was.
	I didn't know what it was, but it evolved into something.
	And what I found out about the Liberty, of course, the main position that many people hold is that Israel attacked the Liberty for the purpose of sinking it
	And murdering everyone on board, and blaming it on Egypt, and then the United States would get into the war on Israel's side, and they would nuke Cairo.
	So, obviously if somebody doesn't really know about liberty, and they hear that, knowing how governments lie, especially our government, and especially the Lyndon Johnson Government at the time.
	Having been the president at the time.
	Yes, with the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which obviously they admitted was a lie.
	And were you in, Jim, were you in the Marines at that time or did you go in?
	I was in 62 to 66, Dave.
	Yeah, so you were in.
	I resigned my commission in the Marine Corps as a captain to intergraduate school during a PhD in the history and the philosophy of science.
	Right.
	So you were in during that time and you got out right before the Liberty.
	Yes.
	Of course, right after the Liberty happened was when the Pueblo happened, another spy ship, which was assaulted by North Korea.
	And they still, of course, have that ship in their country.
	So when I, and the way you know, the way I do things, I like to, I mean, that term analysis is paralysis, but You know, I can't help it.
	I have to see if I could study everything.
	You are very thorough going, David.
	Very meticulous in your research.
	And as an astoundingly good copy editor in addition.
	I mean, you have the keenest eye of anyone I've ever known.
	Well, thank you, Jim.
	I appreciate it.
	It's kind of a disease.
	But yes, so I was fortunate to put out the first version of a book called Erasing the Liberty.
	Which was 276 pages.
	And then after that book came out, there were more folks who came forward to tell their story about their connection to the Liberty.
	And so the next revision of that went from 276 pages to 434.
	Wow!
	That's virtually doubling the size!
	Yeah, it was pretty big.
	The next version, which has been, you know, dying to come out.
	That one has more information.
	Is that going to be 600 pages, Dave?
	It might be less.
	Well, you know, the problem becomes when you actually bind a book, you reach a certain point where too many pages is a problem.
	Exactly.
	You may do some skillful scalpel-like editing to trim it down and devise parts that are now old news or no longer accurate.
	I can see that happening.
	Yes, yes, that's right.
	And what I found out about the Liberty, like I said, from the good fortune of talking to people who have never talked to anyone before about their experience with the Liberty, is that one of the most significant parts of the story is that, and I'll just give a brief description of what happened, was that, you know, the Liberty, the USS Liberty was, you know, originally a World War II cargo ship, right?
	And so, they were built toward the end of World War II, and they would ferry cargo and troops between various, you know, theaters of war.
	And they were putting mothballs, these victory hull ships, and then the National Security Agency came up with the idea of taking these old cargo ships and converting them into spy ships.
	So, they had learned from the Russians, you know, the so-called Russian trawlers, you know.
	So, the plan was, sorry Jim, were you going to say something?
	No, I just said, yes, I was just confirming the Russian trawlers, which in fact were very sophisticated spy ships with all kinds of communication and surveillance gear.
	Exactly, so the U.S.
	took a cue from them And they said, let's make these spy ships.
	And they made, I believe, five of them.
	And the Liberty was the fifth.
	AGTR5 was its hull number.
	Stood for Auxiliary General Technical Research.
	And so they had an AGTR1 through 5.
	And their cover story was that they were mapping the ocean floor to find out about, kind of like a Jacques Cousteau type, you know, research vessel.
	And the Liberty itself had 45 antennae on it.
	And of course, they were used to pick up everything in the surrounding area.
	And they also had something called a moon dish, which was a like a satellite dish that what it could do is it could bounce signals off the moon.
	So if, if, for example, the Liberty and the National Security Agency could Um, you know, see the moon at the same time, then the Liberty could take this dish, which was called, uh, it was a Trescom dish, technical research, uh, you know, communication dish, and they could send the signal, bounce it off the moon, and it would go to, uh, you know, Maryland.
	Yeah, we're talking now about straight-line transmission approximately 250,000 miles up and back.
	Because of the laws of, you know, elementary physics and geometry, you could do it with absolute precision.
	Yes, exactly.
	So, it was, you know, for its time, it was the most sophisticated seaborne listening platform in the world.
	Yeah, in the world, I'd emphasize yes.
	Yes, that's right.
	And it was lightly armed with very lightly armed with 450 caliber machine guns, Browning M2s.
	Use to repel borders.
	Right.
	Like you see with the piracy that, you know, it happens every now and again.
	So it wasn't a warship.
	Believe it or not, pirates are still active around the world.
	So, you know, particularly in certain areas off the coast of Africa.
	Exactly.
	And they always will be.
	So it wasn't a warship, obviously.
	And it was a cargo ship and its skin was very thin.
	And so what they did was they took this cargo ship and they made a department called a research department where they would put these spies, who were communications technicians, in there to listen to all these signals.
	That whatever they picked up, they would get them, they'd listen to them, and then they'd send whatever they uncovered to the National Security Agency.
	And so the Liberties complement, crew complement, was about 300.
	And they had about 200 of these communications technicians, or CTs, and about a hundred what were called ships company.
	And they were the sailors who made the ship go through the water.
	So they were like the ones who did the grunt work.
	You know, they got dirty.
	They had the grease on them.
	The CTs were always clean and neat and you know they had their headphones on listening to Morse code or whatever type of things they were listening to.
	And so the Liberty's station was on the west coast of Africa and they would listen to transmissions there.
	And so the Liberty would sit off of a coast in international waters and aim their antennae To pick up messages, just like for example, planes are in the air, like EC-121s for the Navy and the Air Force, and they would pick up signals from the air.
	But it was easier for a ship to stay on station and pick up signals longer than it was for a plane.
	So a plane would have to obviously, you know, do as much as it could before running out of fuel.
	The ships were different.
	They could always pull into port and gas up and then head back out again and under the cover of a research vessel.
	And so, you know, people saw the Liberty was not a warship, you know.
	So the cover was pretty good.
	The problem was what happened was at the time, and we're talking May of 1967, tensions were being ratcheted up in the Middle East between Nasser, Nasser's Egypt, which was renamed for a short time to the United Arab Republic, the UAR, and Israel.
	And Nasser was a very skillful politician and he was a populist.
	Like Donald Trump, where the people loved him, you know, but other world leaders didn't like him because he was concerned about the people, and the people felt that he was.
	Well, speaking of nom de plumes or de guerre, Donald Trump has just joined us in the chat room.
	Yeah.
	No, he has.
	I mean, it's just by coincidence.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	So, Nasser, there was an op... See, right now we look at, you know, U.S.
	and Israeli relations, and obviously the United States is, you know, many people feel is in an inferior position to Israel, that they're calling the shots here in our country.
	And there's a lot of evidence, you know, to prove that.
	But the relationship between the United States and Israel at that time in 67 was completely different than it is today.
	And the relationship after Israel took over that area in 1948, officially, The relationship between the United States and Israel was nothing that it resembles today.
	And people need to be aware of the fact that the United States and Israel are not allies officially.
	There are no mutual defense pact or treaties between the two countries.
	So they're not allies.
	Period.
	There's no arguing with that.
	You're speaking as a formality because informally the whole world knows that the United States is protecting Israel in every possible way historically has been for decades.
	Yes, exactly.
	But prior to the way that that is now, as you just explained, there were a contingent of public servants who were known as Arabists And they, you know, they didn't want to accept a Middle East where the United States favored a Zionist nation at the expense of the Arab states.
	So it was much more even-handed.
	You know, obviously the Zionists won out over the Arabists, Yeah, who have been all but annihilated, Dave.
	I mean, you have very few Arabists and you hardly ever encounter anything they've written or published.
	Exactly.
	Because they've used that anti-Semitic trick and their control of the media and their control of the politicians to basically wipe them out.
	So massive.
	Yes, massive.
	If anyone wants to review the facts of the matter, by the way, check out my recent program on the official World War II narrative, where in the last part of the program I discuss these issues of the control of the mainstream media and how the American Congress can be well described as Israeli-occupied territory.
	Yeah, absolutely, without a doubt.
	But again, at this point in 67, it wasn't like that.
	The United States under JFK, JFK gave Israel just some missile defense batteries because he realized the electoral significance of Dealing with the Israelis because of the American Jewish vote.
	So it was Kennedy who first broached that.
	Eisenhower was not, as you know, a fan of Israel because during that 56 Suez affair, he forced Israel and France and Britain to back off and get out.
	That's a wonderful point, historically.
	I'm so glad you make that, David.
	I think most Americans slip by.
	It's just fallen through the cracks.
	Yeah, definitely.
	67, what happened in June of 67, May, June of 67, was just a continuation of that 56 Suez Crisis.
	So Gamal Abdel Nasser, Nasser was really just rattling a saber.
	He knew that he didn't have the military might to take on Israel, even though the United States was not supporting Israel at that time.
	It was the French who was supporting Israel.
	It started with the Czechs after World War II, but it was the French who were supplying Israel with their military armaments, not the U.S.
	at all.
	So what happened was that the tensions were ratcheting up and Nasser closed the Straits of Tehran And Israel used that as an excuse to wage a preemptive war, which they disguised as a defensive war, against Egypt and Syria and Jordan.
	These are the foremost practitioners of false flag the world has ever known, Dave.
	In the relatively short history of Israel, they've carried out more false flags more successfully than any other nation in its entire history.
	Absolutely.
	And one of the Former Prime Minister's invented the car bomb.
	Menachem Begin.
	So yeah, these are ruthless characters.
	And what happened was that although the United States wasn't supplying Israel with any weaponry, Israel was still shuttling back and forth from Tel Aviv to DC to inform LBJ what was happening, what they were planning on doing,
	uh they made it look they made a deal that look you want to do this you know if Egypt does this okay but be careful remember we've got the United States and the Soviet Union at the time we're in the cold we're deep in the cold war you've got Vietnam raging you've got the Viet Cong versus the South Vietnamese and you've got on one side the Soviets and you've got on the other side the United States and now this is happening and this Nasser instead of
	Reaching out to the Americans, which the Americans, the Arabists, CIA fellows, tried to bring Nasser into the fold of the United States.
	He opted to go to the Soviets.
	Soviets weren't very fond of him because he wasn't pro-Soviet enough.
	The Americans weren't fond of him because he wasn't pro-American enough.
	The Israelis didn't like him because he was a populist and he was unpredictable.
	And nobody really cared for the guy, but he was a survivor.
	So when he closed the Straits of Toronto... And he actually was interested in supporting Egypt.
	I mean, you know, he really was.
	Like many of these others, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Muammar Gaddafi, they actually were interested in benefiting the people of their own nations rather than allowing them to be exploited as resources for colonist nations.
	Exactly.
	Absolutely.
	And so, even though maybe 2% of Israeli shipping went through the Straits of Tehran, they used that as a pretext to launch this invasion, this preemptive invasion.
	So, before the invasion happened, the Liberty was trolling along the west coast of Africa, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff told them, get out of there!
	Get to Roda, Spain, drop off some personnel, pick up some other personnel, and pick up some supplies, and then get to your station in the Eastern Mediterranean.
	Just geographically, this is a very large sojourn from the west coast of Africa all the way up into the Mediterranean and all the way to Egypt.
	So we're talking about thousands of nautical miles.
	Thousands, exactly.
	Thousands of miles.
	And they didn't know why they were going.
	They did know they're going into a war zone because they heard the chatter that something was going to happen.
	The deal that was made between the Israelis and the Americans was that, you know, Israel would launch this limited strike against Egypt and then they would, you know, back off.
	And they would do it toward the middle of June.
	Well, what happened was that one of the deputies of the Egyptian government was in Washington, D.C.
	On June 5.
	And he was trying to speak with the American administration to ratchet down the tensions.
	Of course, the Israelis didn't want that.
	They wanted the tensions ratcheted up.
	So they advanced their preemptive war strike to that day.
	And that was the day that they struck Egypt.
	And they wiped out Almost all of its Air Force and Army.
	Moshe Dayan was a brilliant general, one of the best.
	I would compare him even to Patton.
	Yeah, he was actually appointed as Minister of Defense that day on June 5.
	Brilliant guy, military, yeah.
	It was Yitzhak Rabin who was leading the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces.
	So, and would later become an instrument of peace, which was why they had to assassinate him.
	Exactly.
	But he was probably the guy who called for the strike on the Liberty.
	A lot of folks think it was Diane, but I don't.
	I think it was him.
	Oh, I think it was too, because this was a political decision, Dave.
	Most people couldn't make that.
	He was a tactician.
	You give him the strategy, what goals you want to achieve, he'll figure out the way to achieve them.
	But this was a matter of relations between nations, and therefore it would have to be decided by the Prime Minister.
	Yes, I'm glad you said that.
	I agree.
	But the attention is put on him, and I don't know if that's done purposely.
	Yes, exactly.
	like a red herring.
	Oh, sure.
	It's to distract from the fact that Israel is a very politically driven nation and exploits the United States every way it possibly can to benefit Israel.
	Yes, exactly.
	And so what happened was the Liberty raced to Rhoda, dropped off some personnel, picked up nine new personnel.
	And this is what isn't written about.
	And I was fortunate enough to interview somebody to find out who was picked up.
	Three civilians, three Marines, and three sailors.
	And they left Rota, I think on June 2nd, and they got to their station late on June 7th.
	And it was on June 8th that in the morning at about 0600 when the Israeli reconnaissance flights began and they lasted for about six hours.
	Surveying the liberty.
	Exactly.
	And unbeknownst to most people is that the night before the liberty via an American attache attached there had warned that if the ship did not leave the area that it would be attacked.
	And this came out in a congressional subcommittee hearing when they were studying the Department of Defense communication systems.
	Even though, of course, it was a non-combatant ship, Dave.
	I mean, you know.
	That's right.
	But it was so central.
	The Liberty being there was so central to Israel's illegal land grab That they needed to move their mechanized divisions from the south in Egypt to the north to Syria to grab the Golan Heights.
	So, they needed it out.
	Their plan was to go there on June 8.
	Liberty was there on June 8.
	So, they threatened that if they didn't move it, they would attack it.
	Supposedly, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sent messages to the Liberty to get a hundred miles away from the coast.
	They were in international waters, but they asked them to go.
	What was their approximate location off the coast?
	10 miles or so?
	No, no, about 12 and a half miles.
	12 and a half.
	Well, 10 is close approximation.
	Yes, so the Israeli international border was less than that.
	I think it was just a couple of miles, but they were way out.
	But they could pick up the communications.
	Sure, sure.
	But they were in international water.
	There was no legal basis for an attack by another nation.
	No, not at all.
	Just like the Pueblo.
	So what happened was that Congress, shortly after the massacre, held a subcommittee hearing to study the Department of Defense communications system.
	Why did none of those messages sent by the Joint Chiefs of Staff get to the Liberty?
	They never did get to the Liberty.
	They never did, supposedly.
	So the question is, were they ever sent?
	Was it?
	I don't know.
	Yeah, is it a fact that they were ever sent?
	I mean, you got the most sophisticated communication machine in the world right there in the USS Liberty.
	How could a message not be received?
	Well, and the way that the communication system worked at that time, they used something called the FBS, the Fleet Broadcast System.
	And a message going to the Liberty Would go to the entire Sixth Fleet.
	They would all get the message.
	Everyone would know what the hell was going on.
	Everyone would know what was going on, but they would only get the messages that were applicable to them.
	That was the point.
	So, Liberty never got the message.
	The Liberty was still in international waters, and that morning after six hours of surveillance, two hours later, was when they launched the attack.
	It leads me to suspect the message was, in fact, never sent.
	This was historical revisionism to make, as it were, an apology for the Joint Chiefs not actually taking action to protect the liberty.
	Yeah, and people I've interviewed said that it doesn't make sense because if the messages were sent, like I said, the whole fleet would pick it up.
	Yeah, right, right, right, right.
	And like you said, this is the most sophisticated communication vessel in the world.
	So, They were attacked by French jets.
	Mirage that Israel had bought from the French.
	Right.
	And also French Mystere fighter bombers.
	So the Mirages were the attack jets, the Mysteres dropped the napalm, and they dropped the napalm to go after the communications equipment.
	The idea was to disable the Liberty's ability to communicate, to let Washington know, hey, Israel is moving their equipment from the south by Egypt to the north to Syria.
	The reason that this was important was because it was a very delicate time.
	The Soviet Union knew that something was happening.
	And they warned the United States, and they warned Israel, don't get near Damascus.
	It got to the point where they got landing rights from Tito in Yugoslavia, because they were about to drop paratroopers in between Damascus and Tel Aviv.
	The Soviets were about to drop paratroopers.
	Fascinating, David, fascinating!
	Yes, so it got to the point of, it almost got to the point of a hot war.
	And Israel being Israel, promising the United States they wouldn't do this and they wouldn't do that.
	That's why the United States raced the Liberty on May 24th, I think it was, from Africa to Rota.
	They got there on June 1.
	Took them that long to get there.
	You mean after the attack?
	No, no, before.
	Before it happened.
	Yeah, because there was chatter about Israel planning to ramp up the schedule to attack, and they were double-crossing the United States.
	Yeah, but was that where the ship was taken after the attack as well?
	Where?
	Rota?
	No.
	No, it was taken to Malta.
	Ah, please go ahead.
	Yeah, tell us about the attack, etc.
	So the attack, the planes murdered nine sailors, and including the executive officer, who had five children.
	Most of them were young boys.
	And then injured 134.
	Injured 134.
	Yeah, 34 were murdered.
	I say 200 or more were wounded because a lot of them that I interviewed.
	200 or more, yeah.
	Yeah, would not put in for benefits because after seeing what their shipmates went through and after seeing what their fathers went through in World War II, they felt it would be a dishonor to ask for benefits, even if they were wounded.
	So, not that they should have or shouldn't have, but this was their choice.
	But you're saying you're not convinced that the Israelis were actually trying to sink the ship, because my impression has been Lyndon Johnson was complicit and he wanted the ship to be sunk so that he could direct U.S.
	forces against Egypt.
	Yeah, no, definitely not.
	You know, the evidence does not point to that.
	If they wanted to sink the Liberty, all they had to do was use one heavy bomb.
	That's it.
	But they were specifically going after the communications.
	But they did fire several torpedoes.
	Well, we're talking about the Air Force now.
	So, you know, this was a hastily put together operation.
	Ad hoc.
	Yes.
	And so before the three motor torpedo boats, French built motor torpedo boats arrived with German torpedoes.
	Which they got from Germany, which were torpedoes that were launched from seaplanes.
	Remember those type of torpedoes, the sleep planes?
	Notice, Dave, they're picking out the best military equipment available at the time in the world.
	Yes, that's right.
	But not from us.
	Not from us.
	Not offensive weaponry.
	So what happened was that they targeted the gun tubs, the four gun tubs.
	They targeted the communications equipment.
	And they used the napalm, not on personnel, but they used it to fry the communications equipment.
	But of course, you'd take out personnel as well in the process.
	And they did.
	And so, you know, there's various stories floating around, and the one about, you know, well, you know, Johnson was in on it to sink the Liberty, and then the U.S.
	would come in on the side of Israel.
	There's a lot of problems with that theory.
	The main one is, is that the war was over.
	There was no war.
	It was all right.
	Yeah.
	Moshe Dayan was, as I say, was so good.
	Yeah.
	All that was left was mobbing up.
	Yeah.
	It was done.
	My impression here at a four day prior to this conversation was that Lyndon was very much involved and wanted the Liberty to go down.
	Yeah.
	I don't think so.
	I don't think so.
	I don't even think that he knew that the Liberty was there.
	Oh, you don't even think LBJ knew?
	No.
	But the Joint Chiefs knew, or at least they're faking it in retrospect by having sent the message.
	No, the Joint Chiefs knew, you know, and so did the NSA.
	But I don't think Johnson was apprised of all of the military's different movements and actions.
	So I don't think he even knew, just like now we're hearing about what did Trump know about these bounties, right?
	Oh yeah, that's all fabricated.
	The Taliban don't need bounties to kill American troops, for God's sake!
	These are some of the most rugged individualist fighters the world has ever known.
	That's right.
	So, you know, the fact that the Liberty... They'd be insulted by being offered money to kill their enemies.
	They'd be insulted.
	Right.
	It's all nonsense.
	But the Liberty was a very specialized vessel, and there were even admirals in the Navy who were unaware of it.
	It was a highly classified operation and the capabilities of the ship were not well known.
	Exactly.
	Even within the military, only to those in a need.
	Exactly.
	And that's why I don't think Johnson even knew of it.
	There's people who, you know, and I like Phil Nelson, he's a nice guy, but his book, Remember the Liberty, tries to give Johnson you know, more credit than is deserved because there's really no evidence that Johnson knew anything.
	Well, what does Phil base it on?
	Because he's not a speculator.
	The guy's quite a good scholar and a reliable researcher generally.
	So what do you think happened here, Dave?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But they, you know, there is no evidence The only evidence that exists is that there was a note, literally a handwritten note on a piece of paper that said 303 Liberty.
	That's it.
	And so they're tying in the 303 Committee and the USS Liberty, but there would be no purpose to sink the Liberty.
	There was no geopolitical history That existed at the time for the United States to want to get into a hot war.
	The last thing Johnson would want to do would be to make things worse in that area.
	And of course, Israel has subsequently apologized, claiming it was misidentification when it's well known it wasn't misidentification.
	It wasn't misidentification.
	It was a deliberate attack.
	Absolutely.
	So what I think happened was that The Air Force was in on the plan.
	It was directed by the controller who was sending them there.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Who was even notified by the pilots that flying the American flag, you still want us to attack.
	And that is just a proceed.
	Yes, exactly.
	And that is some information that, you know, needs further study, but yes.
	So it's not like the pilots knew what they were doing.
	They were being told to do this and they did it.
	And I've actually been in communication with the lead pilot.
	Well, it's in a chain of command for crying out loud, you know.
	Exactly.
	And I've been in communication with the lead pilot who attacked, who was in one of those mirages, the Israeli fella.
	So, you know, there's a lot of questions.
	What were his feelings about the whole thing in retrospect?
	That it wasn't anything, you know, that was conspiratorial.
	And this is actually an honorable man who retired as a Lieutenant General.
	Who refused to target Palestinians and he was punished.
	So this isn't somebody who is a vicious Zionist.
	You know, this is someone... So it was really for military purposes that the movement of their mechanized divisions to take the Golan Heights not be revealed inadvertently by the spy ship having acquired this information.
	Because then the Johnson administration could apply pressure to Israel and say, look, you promised us you wouldn't go there, back off.
	Because you have the Soviets waiting to jump in.
	So it's part of the Israeli duplicity in deceiving the U.S.
	to gain its own objectives.
	Exactly.
	So that's why they rushed to liberty there as insurance.
	So what I think happened was then the motor torpedo boats got on the scene after the planes did their bit.
	And because of a series of unfortunate events, They fired there and one of the unfortunate events was that one of the sailors had fired, you know, one of the .50 calibers toward them and also some of the ammunition was cooking off with no one in there and they thought they were being fired upon.
	Well, you'd certainly assume in the context of this airborne attack that other vessels approaching are involved in the attack.
	So, I mean, it would be a totally appropriate response to fire at the ships.
	And of course, they did engage then and fired torpedoes.
	Yes, yes.
	But before that happened, the Liberty was able to get off an SOS.
	Even though while the planes were attacking, they were jamming their tactical and distress frequencies.
	They were able to get off an SOS and some of the carriers operating off the coast of Crete, war games again, the USS Saratoga and the USS America, they launched planes to come to the aid of the Liberty.
	A lot of people think they would have made it before the motor torpedo boats, Got there, but that's not the case.
	I heard they were called back.
	That's false, Tim.
	No, that's true.
	They were called back, but what people don't know is why they were called back.
	So the first sortie of planes launched from the Saratoga was called back by McNamara.
	After they got their stuff together and removed The nuclear weapons from some of the planes, because they were conducting nuclear drills at the time.
	It's funny how drills are always happening when... Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	And the second... They have a funny way of going long.
	Yeah, exactly.
	The second sortie of rescued planes were launched to come to the aid of the Liberty, and McNamara recalled them again, and then the Admiral, who was in charge of the Sixth Fleet, Admiral Geiss, he, or not of the Sixth Fleet, but of the Carrier Battle Group.
	Admiral Martin was in charge of the Sixth Fleet.
	Admiral Geiss said he wanted verification from McNamara, and the next level up was Johnson.
	And Johnson said, and I have this from people who were there, there's the mythology of, you know, No, get those planes back.
	I want that ship at the bottom of the goddamn ocean.
	You know, that never happened.
	What he said was, you know, get those planes back or you're going to be pushing pencils I'm not going to embarrass an ally over a few dead sailors.
	Even though formally not an ally, so once again.
	Right, exactly.
	But the point, and he wouldn't even know, he probably wouldn't even know if they were an ally or not.
	See, people are giving him a lot more credit, I think, than he deserves.
	So what happened?
	Why did Johnson, why did McNamara and Johnson call back the jets?
	All they wanted to do was go see what was happening with the Liberty, right?
	Remember the hotline?
	And come to its defense if it were still appropriate.
	Exactly, and they announced that over the clear, that they would destroy anybody going after Liberty.
	So what happened was that, remember the hotline that was installed after the Cuban Missile Crisis?
	Yeah, but it's with the Soviet Union.
	Yes, that was in the Pentagon, in the National Military Command Center.
	A little room that had the hotline, and it wasn't like, obviously, a red phone that you would pick up.
	It was like some kind of a fax-looking gadget, and it had never been used.
	Well, because the Soviet Union was infesting the Mediterranean with their vessels and harassing U.S.
	and U.K.
	and other shipping, they knew about the Liberty.
	They knew what was happening, and they knew that The Saratoga and the America had launched planes to come to the Liberty's defense.
	And Kosygin, the Prime Minister or the head of the Soviet Union at the time, he used the hotline to call Johnson and to tell Johnson that if you don't get those planes back, we're going to shoot them down.
	Really?
	Yes.
	So I was fortunate enough to... I mean, because they were essentially on the side of Egypt.
	No.
	Yeah, they were on the side of Egypt.
	Egypt was their client state, and they didn't know for sure what the intention was.
	Would the United States use this pretext... To attack Egypt?
	Not to attack Egypt.
	They were done.
	But to develop a larger presence or footprint in that area.
	Remember, this is the great game, Jim.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	This isn't like Black and White, you know, Saints of Liberty, gold.
	You know, people actually believe, or they want to believe, that the United States was about to nuke Cairo.
	You know, Johnson was, even though he was duplicitous, and many would say evil, He was a careful, calculating politician.
	This is even why he called off, you know, going too far about Lee Oswald being an agent for the Soviet Union and the assassination.
	He wanted Jack dead so he could become president.
	He was the mastermind, but he wasn't willing to risk an international... He actually used that argument with Earl Warren, Dave.
	That if they actually explained the truth, that it was supposed to have been the Soviets through Cuba and all this stuff, that we could have a nuclear war and 30 million people would die.
	That's how he manipulated Earl Warren.
	into chairing a commission where he ought never have been in that position, because if it had done its job, the case would have eventually come before the Supreme Court, no doubt, but his Chief Justice had now been compromised by participating in the investigation.
	So it's totally inappropriate that he should have chaired the Warren Commission, but Johnson was, you know, so politically astute he understood the benefits to him from that arrangement.
	Yes, and he wasn't the type of president who would do something rash.
	He was the opposite, and that's why I mentioned earlier the Pueblo.
	Well, this is why, you know, to make sure Jack would be killed, he actually had eight different shooters.
	Had Edward Lansdale organized their position to determine the sequence of shots, and even George H.W.
	Bush was in the Daltex supervising the anti-Castro Cuban and fired three shots from a Manley-Kirk Arcana, which was the only unsolid weapon there at the time.
	He was a very much of a hands-on guy.
	He actually sent his chief administrative assistant, Cliff Carter, down to Dallas to make sure all the arrangements were in place for the assassination.
	Yes, yes.
	And of course, H.W.
	was the only person on the planet who didn't remember where he was when JFK died.
	And Richard Nixon.
	Yeah, Nixon too?
	Yeah.
	Ridiculous!
	So the Liberty, the background and the backdrop to the Liberty is much more complex.
	And the reason it was buried, besides Israeli pressure on the United States to bury it, was because Israel, because of their magnificent victory, which also had a lot to do with, it wasn't just Moshe Dayan, it was the fact that in these Arab countries, there were Israeli spies.
	So the most famous one was Cohen, and they're doing like a mini-series, I think, on Netflix, where this guy was an Egyptian Jew, but he had allegiance to a foreign country, Israel.
	And what he did was, one of the things he did was, he pretended to be friends with these Egyptian generals, and he got close to them, and he said, oh, these poor Egyptian soldiers on the sand dunes, they're out there, they're getting this stuff.
	Let me get you some trees so they could have some shade.
	Of course, the trees were used as targeting markers for the 67 wars.
	Very clever, David.
	Very clever.
	They had Jews implanted in all of these Arab nations who were spying for Israel.
	So it wasn't that it was a magnificent victory.
	It was duplicitous.
	This is why from the time of my very first political speech on 15 April, Tax Day, 2008, at the Grass Outside the Capitol, it was a Ron Paul Freedom Rally, I argued that no dual citizen should ever be allowed to occupy a decision-making or program policy-shaping position because you cannot know that their loyalty to the other state does not outweigh their loyalty to the United States.
	It's common sense.
	But since they had captured a bunch of Egyptian military hardware that they got from the Soviet Union, that they were using in Vietnam, Israel said, here you go, United States. Israel said, here you go, United States.
	You can learn what they're using, and you can reverse engineer it and figure out how to defeat it.
	But we'll give you this if you bury this liberty story.
	Really fascinating, David.
	Fascinating, fascinating, fascinating.
	Besides the fact that U.S. congressmen and senators who were Jewish immediately, immediately came to the defense of Israel before they knew anything about what had happened.
	On top of that, the United States wanted the story buried because they had other spy ships around the globe, and they didn't want people to realize, hey, look, look at that ship off our coast.
	Isn't that like the Liberty?
	Yes.
	You know, that really, you know, all of that stuff, you have to look at everything about the Liberty and realize it was, like you said, a political operation to take it out so they could take the Golan Heights, which they did the next day, and the war was over the following day, when they got within 40 miles of Damascus.
	And the liberty kind of just slunk away into ignominy.
	And, you know, now it's like, well, people bring up the liberty and they want to believe that, you know, the United States was going to nuke Cairo, which is preposterous.
	You know, they wanted to sink the liberty and blame it on Egypt, even though the war was over.
	So it requires a lot of study and mostly of the background of what was happening.
	Well, I'm very impressed, Dave.
	I'm very impressed.
	You speak with great authority.
	I'm fascinated.
	This is one of the truth is stranger than fiction stories.
	I'd like you to comment on the development of a film about the Liberty, because I know that's been a major project preoccupying much of your time in recent years.
	Yes, well, as a matter of fact, right now I think there is a film that I actually started for this True News.
	True News reached out to Phil Turney and Phil Turney asked me to work with them.
	So I and Phil picked out the survivors.
	We, this was last May, We went out to Vero Beach in Florida, and they filmed us, and they got more and more information, but they were operating from the premise of sinking the Liberty, nuking Cairo, you know, Operation Cyanide, which, as I said, there's no evidence to support any of this.
	You know, had a particular slant, a spin to put on it.
	I prefer not to put any spin on it.
	gave them my information, but they chose to use this, you know, inauthentic non-evidence information to present this preposterous story.
	In this film portrayal.
	In this documentary.
	So it's not backed by actual facts or evidence, it's backed by, or it's motivated by something other than that.
	That's too bad.
	It is, but once they saw where I was, they didn't want to use my, because I was filmed for two days and they decided, I don't know, I haven't seen the product, but it's.
	Oh, because you were going to, you had a story contradicting what they were going to present in the film.
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	So, so because I'm researching it as thoroughly as possible and I can only be comfortable saying things based on the facts of, of the matter, the, the, the film is going to be, uh, Predicated on just the facts.
	So, you know, we still don't know.
	You're talking about a separate documentary on which you're working now?
	Yeah, I'm talking about not a documentary, because there have been several documentaries done, but I'm talking about a full-length feature film.
	Not a narrative film, which is fiction, but a full-length feature film, a docudrama.
	So, Could you say roughly parallel to Oliver Stone's JFK, but for the USS Liberty?
	You know, I don't know because I'm not really... Okay, yours is probably going to be more closely tied to the facts and all the facts.
	Yes.
	So, in other words, a lot of people say, well, why would Israel attack the United States?
	They're their best friend.
	Or, you know, why would they?
	I don't care.
	There's a lot of naivete out there.
	Right.
	We got to take the history as it develops.
	Exactly.
	There's too much coulda, shoulda, woulda stuff that goes on that's all nonsense in the end.
	Exactly.
	So the point is, what happened, here's how it happened, here's what Israel did, here's what the United States did, and I guess probably the most important part of this whole story is the USS Liberty is the most decorated ship in the history of the United States for a single engagement.
	And nobody knows about it.
	So every American school child should know about the Liberty like they know about the Alamo, like they know about George Washington.
	But because of all of these things we discussed, they're prevented from learning about it.
	And of course, the first time somebody tries to bring it up, you've got these pro-Israel elements calling you an anti-Semite, a Jew-hater, a conspiracy theorist.
	There is no conspiracy here.
	What happened was, well, it was a conspiracy, of course.
	What happened was the Liberty was attacked.
	People were murdered.
	People were wounded.
	The U.S.
	government buried it and covered it up.
	And these guys never had the opportunity for any closure, for any recognition, even though they received 208 Purple Hearts and the captain received the Medal of Honor.
	And instead of receiving the Medal of Honor in the White House, presented by LBJ, he received it in the Washington Navy Yard.
	In a clouded ceremony.
	Dave, what will be the name of this when it's finished, or is that yet to be determined?
	Don't know.
	Okay, well, where can folks learn more about your projects and research?
	Sure, they can go to erasingtheliberty.com.
	Erasingtheliberty.com.
	Because there is a book out there, by the way, Erasing the Liberty, that Dave edited with the survivors, so.
	Yeah, well, yeah, I wrote the book, and, you know, because I'm a writer, And Phil and I worked together on it, but I researched and wrote it, and I interviewed probably over 20 survivors and over 20 people who had something, some connection to the Liberty, as well as reading all of the books on the Liberty.
	I can see now why expanding the book has been such a time-consuming project for you, my friend, even running interference with projects between you and me, so there it is!
	Yes, yes.
	David, this has just been sensational.
	Your manner is so wonderful.
	You're so well informed.
	You're so articulate.
	Thank you.
	I mentioned in the beginning, but those who joined us late may not know that we're going to end a few minutes early now, about a quarter of, so this historic event of a major American political party nominating to be president of the United States, a man they know is certified oblique Cognitively incompetent.
	He's in the stages of dementia.
	We have multiple expert physicians offering that opinion.
	Anyone who's paid attention to his gas bloopers, his lost cat, complete assent, unfamiliarity with familiar phrases, all this.
	He's in an advanced state of mental deterioration.
	Tonight, you're going to see them nominate him to be the President of the United States.
	And I'll simply add, when you watch him, remember, this is videotaped.
	Biden couldn't go five minutes without a gaffe, so you're going to see various cuts.
	Each time they do a cut, it's because he committed a gaffe, and they had to re-tape.
	So you count the number of cuts, and you'll know how many times they had to tape and re-tape, stop and go, because Biden couldn't complete a sentence.
	Dave, I cannot thank you enough.
	This has really been sensational.
	It was a wonderful, wonderful conversation.
	Thank you, Jim.
	I hope I didn't ramble on too much.
	Oh, God, no.
	Every word was perfect and appropriate, and I think that a lot of our listeners and others who will watch this will be at least as fascinated by the early parts about the publication of Nobody Died at Sandy Hook and your relations with Wall Street and all that, your personal history.
	Fascinating, my friend.
	I cannot thank you enough.
	Well, thank you, Jim.
	I appreciate it.
	You know, let's see what happens tonight with this show here.
	I'm not going to watch it.
	I really, I like to look at the videos of the guys screwing up.
	They're funny, but I'm not going to watch it, but I hope you enjoy it.
	Well, there's already one, you know, a Trump campaign commercial, very high quality showing.
	It's only like a minute and 30 seconds showing some major gaffes by Biden comparing him with the past and the president.
	It leaves no doubt about it.
	No.
	Yeah, this is Jim Fetzer, The Conspiracy Guy, thanking you all for being here for The Fetz Presents with Dave Gehary, one of my dearest, closest friends, coincidentally, and we have a very long association and I was very, very impressed and learned a lot from what Dave had to say here tonight.
	So we're going to adjourn early.
	The complete video, absent the interruption, will be posted at Jim the Conspiracy Guy within the next two days.
	So if anyone wants to watch it without any interruption, you'll find it there.
	Anything you may have missed.
	I want to thank everyone for being here.
	And Dave, you are just a wonderful guest.
	Thank you, my friend.
	Thank you, Jim.

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