Jim Fetzer - Judyth Vary Baker, David Ferrie, and Dr. Mary Sherman (Part 4 of 6)
Aired: 2020-06-14
Duration: 09:56


=== David Ferry's Languages (08:37) ===

[00:00:01]  Yeah, let's do it.
[00:00:01]  This is Jim Fetzer on James Fetzer News with my special guest Judith Vary-Baker, who knew Lee Oswald in New Orleans and a lot of other interesting characters.
[00:00:12]  One of them, I take it, Judith, was David Ferry?
[00:00:16]  Yes, David William Ferry, David W. Ferry, then Harry Ferry, who It wasn't very.
[00:00:24]  He had a lot.
[00:00:25]  He could make jokes about himself and all that.
[00:00:26]  He was a very intelligent man who knew at least seven languages.
[00:00:31]  And when I say that, it was French, German, Italian, Spanish, English, German, Greek, and Latin.
[00:00:39]  And he was a terrific He could play classical piano.
[00:00:44]  He was a very interesting man.
[00:00:47]  He was, of course, a professional pilot.
[00:00:50]  He was also the pilot for Carlos Marcello.
[00:00:52]  He was a go-between man between Marcello and Guy Bannister, who was former FBI.
[00:00:57]  A lot of people ask me, well, why in the world would Bannister and Carlos Marcello have a go-between between them?
[00:01:07]  I couldn't even bring those subjects up because for a long time, nobody ever believed that the CIA or the FBI worked with the Mafia in efforts to kill Fidel Castro.
[00:01:19]  Even in 1999, when I first spoke out, they were saying things like, oh, they quit all those attempts on Castro.
[00:01:28]  Since then, they have found many, many more attempts that were made on Castro, even in 1963.
[00:01:32]  At least that's what I was told by those researchers.
[00:01:36]  What I'd like to say about David Ferry is I feel in some ways he's been treated unfairly.
[00:01:41]  There have been many attempts to show that he was a broken man, that he wasn't that smart, and so on.
[00:01:49]  But he was.
[00:01:51]  And I attest to that and to his abilities that he had.
[00:01:55]  He worked with Robert Heath and he did a lot of work.
[00:01:59]  We've probably talked about this before.
[00:02:02]  The fact that Dave Ferry and Lee Oswald knew each other before is absolutely true.
[00:02:09]  At one time there was a photograph of Lee with his Civil Air Patrol hanging on Dave Ferry's wall.
[00:02:15]  I don't know what happened to it because I noticed in a dead photo that was sent of when Dave Ferry died, all those photos were taken down off the wall.
[00:02:24]  They're gone.
[00:02:25]  Probably just because it showed Lee in the images that they didn't want to be able to prove the connection.
[00:02:33]  Yeah, there's been some rigging done on that, you know.
[00:02:36]  So, I wanted to talk about, though, the marmosets, monkeys, and things that we work with.
[00:02:40]  Yes, yes, I was going to ask how you happen to be dealing with a strange fellow like David Ferry, though your description makes him out to be quite a virtuoso in many respects.
[00:02:50]  Well, he was involved with Tulane and strange little experiments that they really probably associated with MK-ALTRA, the Mind Control ALTRA program that the CIA had.
[00:03:03]  They were interested in New Orleans and the drugs and things.
[00:03:09]  As you know, they did sprayed LSD once, you know, in, what was it?
[00:03:14]  Somewhere.
[00:03:15]  Oh, I know where they sprayed it over in France, for example.
[00:03:18]  That's in the Trindade book, a terrible mistake.
[00:03:21]  And some of those people killed themselves.
[00:03:23]  You know, they were completely wiped out by that experiment.
[00:03:27]  LSD.
[00:03:28]  Well, they were looking at other life-altering drugs too.
[00:03:32]  And among them, what in the world is this about zombies and voodoo?
[00:03:35]  Okay.
[00:03:37]  David Ferry was also very interested in things like that.
[00:03:39]  And so anyway, there was a connection there because Robert Heath helped him.
[00:03:43]  And he did get involved in some of that stuff.
[00:03:46]  So, that got him interested in, he met Mary Sherman, Dr. Mary Sherman, at the Crippled Children's Hospital.
[00:03:55]  And they became friends.
[00:03:57]  And she's a world-class cancer researcher.
[00:04:01]  Now, one so-called famous guy on the internet keeps saying that she was just an orthopedic surgeon.
[00:04:08]  But actually, when she died, the Wall Street Journal put that she was a noted cancer researcher right on their front page.
[00:04:15]  We've been found dead.
[00:04:17]  She was found dead, of course, as you surely know, on July 21st, 1964, the day the Warren Commission came to New Orleans to get unsolicited testimonies.
[00:04:27]  They were there before getting the ones they wanted.
[00:04:30]  Now they wanted volunteers to come forward and to speak out.
[00:04:34]  And Mary Sherman was found dead that same day.
[00:04:37]  Do you have any suspicion that Mary Sherman might in fact have come forward and that that might be the reason for her accidental demise?
[00:04:46]  That was no accidental demise when you find out her right arm was completely missing.
[00:04:52]  That even though her body was badly burned, even her curtains weren't even smoldering, that her body is found naked.
[00:04:59]  This is a fancy woman, a doctor, with great respect.
[00:05:03]  She's found naked.
[00:05:05]  We find that Guy Bannister, a month earlier, in June, was killed.
[00:05:09]  He's found naked.
[00:05:10]  This is a message, okay, being sent out.
[00:05:13]  And a month before him, Guy Bannister's friend Hugh Ward, who knew a lot about Lee, Also was killed.
[00:05:23]  So these are not coincidences.
[00:05:25]  These are shut up, you know.
[00:05:28]  Now you and David and Mary were involved in research in New Orleans.
[00:05:33]  Can you tell us about it?
[00:05:35]  Yeah, and I wanted to talk a little bit about the primate research.
[00:05:38]  First of all, we started out with mice.
[00:05:40]  These were baby or wheeling mice.
[00:05:42]  And imagine if you have a mouse that weighs An ounce, say.
[00:05:48]  And then it has a tumor that it develops in only seven days.
[00:05:52]  And this tumor is as big as the mouse is.
[00:05:55]  So for a hundred ounces of mouse, you have a hundred ounces of tumor.
[00:05:59]  Imagine.
[00:06:00]  That's a hundred percent ratio, you know, going on there.
[00:06:03]  Now, if you have a monkey, then we went to monkeys.
[00:06:05]  We moved it to morosets first, a very small pygmy type of monkey.
[00:06:11]  Because first of all, we had to see, you cannot take a cancer from a mouse and then have it work in a human.
[00:06:17]  You've got to transit it through primates.
[00:06:19]  We are primates.
[00:06:20]  We are anthropologically associated with apes of all kinds of gorillas, bonobos and chimps and so on, and also monkeys.
[00:06:32]  Well, So we use first the marmoset because if it didn't work in a marmoset, we're not going to go and kill expensive big monkeys first.
[00:06:41]  And they were grabbing marmosets, these little pygmy ones, by the sackful in South America at one time, you know, and just hauling them in.
[00:06:50]  Now they're breeding and they're expensive, but they weren't that expensive then and they were very, very useful.
[00:06:55]  So we have maybe like a little three ounce marmoset And sure enough, they were getting like one ounce cancers on them.
[00:07:05]  One third of their body weight would be cancer.
[00:07:08]  Can you imagine?
[00:07:08]  Only a week.
[00:07:09]  That's because these were little babies.
[00:07:12]  They had, they were, they had no immune system because they were young.
[00:07:16]  See, they're just getting meat from their mothers and they didn't have the immune system.
[00:07:20]  Therefore, they were susceptible.
[00:07:22]  Well, next we moved to green monkeys.
[00:07:24]  Green monkeys weigh about 10, well, anywhere from 9 to 12 kilograms.
[00:07:28]  So we're talking about, um, 20 pound monkey, 25 pound monkey.
[00:07:32]  And as you can imagine, if you have a hundred of them, that's 2,500 pounds of monkey.
[00:07:36]  Uh, I mean, 250 pounds of monkey is a hundred.
[00:07:39]  Where are we here?
[00:07:41]  Anyway, if you have, if you have a thousand pounds of monkeys, that means you had, uh, about 200 monkeys, see?
[00:07:48]  And so, When I say that we worked with thousands of pounds of monkeys, I don't mean we worked with thousands of monkeys, but thousands of pounds of them, because we were looking at the ratio there.
[00:08:01]  If we have a thousand pounds of monkey, how many pounds of cancer did we get from that round?
[00:08:06]  And as a matter of fact, we're talking about enormous Rapidly developing cancers, and it was incredible how fast they grew.
[00:08:16]  And the project you were engaged in here, Judith, that you're describing had to do with the use of a rapid-growing cancer as a bioweapon to kill human beings?

=== Considered Safe Way (01:32) ===

[00:08:27]  This was dreadful.
[00:08:30]  My idea was, my parents lived in Florida.
[00:08:33]  I was going to school there when Castro aimed nuclear weapons at us.
[00:08:39]  And he was ranting and raving on television, you know, he wanted to kill everybody and he hated, you know, seemed to hate the United States.
[00:08:50]  They were gone for hours.
[00:08:52]  So yeah, we had a real problem there.
[00:08:54]  And I've been faulted.
[00:08:57]  At the time, I was told that it would maybe stop World War Three, that we could save millions of people if we could get rid of Castro.
[00:09:04]  And I don't, I didn't consider it murder.
[00:09:07]  I considered it a safe way to defuse all those nuclear weapons.
[00:09:12]  - Yeah, you were acting in the interest of national security as you understood it.
[00:09:17]  - That's the way, yes, and I was a young person.
[00:09:20]  I believe these strong individuals like Dr. Oxner and what they told me, why should I doubt them if they're such famous men and they're so powerful and they know what they're talking about?
[00:09:31]  And somebody's going to do it anyway, but I did object when I found out they were going to use it on uninformed persons without their consent and that ruined my whole life and my whole career and I was kicked out of cancer research for it.
[00:09:44]  Judith, I look forward to continuing our conversations about these and other events in New Orleans during the period you knew Lee Oswald.
[00:09:52]  I want to thank you for coming on with me on James Fetzer News.