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Feb. 7, 2024 - Jimmy Dore Show
01:00:10
20240207_TJDS_20240207_Podcast_-_2624_2.29PM
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Hey, come see us do a live stand-up show.
We'll be in Bend, Oregon, Portland, Seattle, Philadelphia, Avanal, New Jersey, Boston, Palm Springs, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Berlin, and London.
We're adding a second show in London.
The first show sold out.
See you there.
See you there.
All right, our next guest, ladies and gentlemen, is Dennis Kucinich, who's a former Democratic congressman from Ohio and two-time candidate for president.
In 1977, he became Cleveland's youngest mayor at the age of 31.
As a 2008 presidential candidate, Kucinich ran on a platform supporting single-player health care, impeaching Vice President Dick Cheney, and the establishment of a Department of Peace.
That would be nice.
Last month, Kucinich announced plans to run for Congress as an independent in Ohio's 7th House District.
Please welcome back to the show Dennis Kucinich.
Good to see you.
Hey, Jimmy, thank you very much.
It's great to be on here and also to join with you and Steph and Kurt Metzger.
Hey.
You got a great team there, and I'm glad to have a chance to communicate with it.
So tell me the theory behind you running as an independent.
Now, I know that the, was it the, so you're the real deal.
You really are a real lefty, and you care about the workers and the people and honesty.
And they gerrymandered you out of your district.
That was your reward for that.
Did the Democrats do that to you, or was that the Republicans?
That was the Democrats.
There's no question about it.
And so, you know, today I'm in the center.
What I stand for is in the center of American politics.
And the district I'm running in, I represented 45% of it in previous Congresses.
So they must not have paid attention when they did the latest mapping and put together a community of people who I've had a long-standing association with.
And so as an independent, I'm able to reach out to the broadest constituency.
I've had a reputation for working across the aisle.
And at this point, Jimmy, and I think this is the, it's going to come down to this.
You're going to have a closely divided Congress.
And so if I'm able to be elected as an independent, I have a pretty good chance to do that.
I'm going to be in a pivotal role in the next Congress for the Ds and R's being closely balanced, or depends on one's editorial position on that.
But I'm looking forward to that opportunity.
So why not run as a Democrat?
Well, this district, first of all, I'm very concerned about the Democratic Party having, you know, the official Democratic Party, having gone in the direction of war.
You have to remember, I led the effort in 2001, 2002, 2003, trying to avert a war as a result of 9-11.
And I pointed out early on that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, with al-Qaeda's role in 9-11.
Iraq didn't have the ability to attack the United States.
That this whole effort to create a war against Iraq was based on lies.
And I gave about 351 speeches in the House of Representatives during the time that I was in Congress, pointing out the urgency of either avoiding the war, getting out of it, stopping the slaughter.
You know, we had as many as 5,000 U.S. men and women who lost their lives, tens of thousands injured, and notably also about a million Iraqis who were killed, who lost their lives as a result of the war.
So, you know, my party since that time has increasingly gone in the direction of supporting wars.
And I can't.
I see something different.
I see these regime change wars are wrecking our country.
They're ruining our economy.
They're ruining the people in terms of adding to the personal debt of the country, the public debt of the country.
And our country's in trouble because of these endless wars.
We're ransoming our country for war and debt.
And my candidacy and my president of Congress will finally create that space in the American political dialogue to say, look, we have to change our direction or we're going to lose it all here.
I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm thrilled that you're running as an independent.
It makes it very easy for me to get behind you and to endorse your candidacy.
No problem.
You don't think you could do more good from the inside?
So the problem is that people like people who share our views of how things should run, people who are anti-war, people who are pro-worker, far-right people, basically, are now being called far-right maniacs.
And they don't ask for the Democratic Party anything for their votes, right?
Just because they've created this boogeyman called Donald Trump and MAGA, now anything Joe Biden and the Democrats do, you just have to go along with it because you don't want Trump, do you?
And so African Americans have stopped doing that.
You can't scare them.
22% of African Americans say they're going to vote for Donald Trump, right?
So that's the guy they've called a white supremacist for the last eight years.
And here is Killer Mike.
He was on with Bill Maher just the other day.
And watch how what he's going to do here is called Politics 101.
And it blows Bill Maher's mind.
Bill Maher cannot wrap his mind around the idea that a black guy just won't reflexively endorse Joe Biden and say he's going to vote for Joe Biden.
Let's watch this and I'll get your reaction to it.
It's about a minute and a half.
What are your feelings on the election coming up?
I mean, Biden and Trump.
Are you just depressed about that as most people?
My feeling is: pick your policy, not your person.
Find out this is not the Dallas Cowboys versus your favorite team.
This is the policies that will affect our generations for the next 20, 30, 40 years to come.
So close your eyes, listen to the policies that are being pushed.
And pay attention even to the people who don't have a chance of winning because they're going to say policies you may want to push.
And I would say do that, but make it policy-based.
So that means I'm for black people in happy black history.
But you're not saying one candidate over the other.
Hey, man, my nigga, he ain't going to get me in no trouble tonight.
Now, that's your job with me.
My grandfather gave me some stellar advice sometimes.
He said, son, sometimes you just got to know to stay out of white folks' business.
This time, I'm going to keep my mouth closed.
I still like the policy that the old man had that I was supporting.
I would encourage people to find who's supporting that policy and see what.
But you can't get yourself to say vote for Biden over Trump.
You want me to list it now.
So now I'm just saying.
I just told you I couldn't.
So all Bill Maher can get through his head is Trump, but Trump.
All I have to know is Trump.
And then I vote for it.
Reflexively, I have to endorse genocide in Gaza.
I have to endorse war in Ukraine.
I have to endorse crushing a railroad worker strike.
I have to endorse vetoing Medicare for all for everybody just because Trump trumped Trump.
And he's got a great response.
Here's his response.
Prime Bill.
Can he get himself to get his head out of his ass and say, black people, you are black regardless.
I need you to tell me what I need to do.
Can he pick a coalition of former people who are affected by drug law, street gangs, recidivism, and crime, and say, I need you as a board to advise me how to fix federal prisons?
If he can do that, absolutely I can.
So my challenge is out.
So what that's called is politics 101.
That's Killer Mike asking for something for his vote.
I'm not going to give you my vote until you promise me something, until you show me you're going to do something for me and my community.
That all went out the window with Bernie Sanders in 2016, who demanded absolutely nothing for himself to get behind Hillary Clinton and the establishment.
And he did the exact same thing in 2020.
He asked nothing of the establishment or Joe Biden for his endorsement, personal, or for the support of his coalition that he had built.
And guess what he got?
And because of that, nothing.
They didn't get a minimum wage.
They didn't get help for workers during COVID.
They got two more wars.
They're saber-rattling with China.
They got, didn't get infrared.
They got nothing.
Anyway, so.
Also, the guy's senile.
He's not too old.
Yeah.
He's senile.
He's not too old.
He has dementia.
And that could happen at a young age.
I know people in their 50s that have dementia.
It's got nothing to do with his age.
It has everything to do with his mental state.
But anyway, Dennis, what do you say to that?
That when people stopped asking for something for their vote, which is all I've been preaching at this show since 2016, don't commit.
When a pollster calls you and asks you who you're voting, don't commit until they come and get your vote.
Come get my vote.
I told Hillary Clinton.
Yeah, instead of her being with me, they wanted me to be with her.
I told Hillary Clinton, come get my vote.
I told Joe Biden, come get my vote.
And they didn't.
What do you say to what Killer Mike just said?
Well, Killer Mike's voice is rising from the street.
And when I heard him, you know, this is a song from another generation, but the words of a Simon and Garfunkel song came into my head called Sounds of Silence.
The words of the prophet are written on subway walls, tenement halls.
There's a prophecy coming from the streets.
And when you, and what I'm focusing on in this race is the fact that we're getting war instead of housing, war instead of education, war instead of childcare, war instead of retirement security, on and on and on.
This $34 trillion debt that we have, about $8 trillion, is attributable to the fairly recent wars.
If you look at the Watson Institute at Brown University, and what, you know, we're ransoming our future for these wars, and the American people are just being led down a bloody path.
So should people be asking for something for their vote?
Absolutely.
Now, to be clear, Jimmy, you know, I'm running as an independent.
I am not aligned with any presidential campaign.
I will not make an endorsement in the presidential election.
I'm running in a district that's 47% independent.
So, you know, people are going to look for leadership for me for the Congress.
You know, some of my friends are for Trump.
Some of my friends are for Biden.
Some of my friends are for Kennedy.
Me, I'm for my friends.
So you brought up war, and I know you've always been a staunch anti-war advocate.
That's why you're unpopular.
That's why the Democrats didn't like you.
That's a big reason why they gerrymandered you out of your own district.
You can keep Dennis up, please.
And so I was watching Morning Joe the other day.
I actually wasn't.
I can't.
I used to watch, I would wake, I would stay up extra late when I started the show, and I would watch Morning Joe before I went to sleep because it came on at like three in the morning.
And people go, why do you do that?
I go, because I like to go to bed angry.
And so here is Chuck Schumer, Chucky the Schumazan, and he's got a big, he's got a big bill he's trying to push through, $118 billion, $118 billion.
I always say, wouldn't it be great if Chuck Schumer came up with a bill for $118 billion that he wanted to spend on America?
Wouldn't that be amazing?
But here he wants, again, he wants to spend it on foreign wars.
He wants to spend it on Ukraine, and he wants to spend it on Israel.
So let's listen to what he has to say.
We're the turning points in America.
This bill is crucial, And history will look back on it and say, did America fail itself?
Why is it crucial?
Did America fail itself?
Is that the question?
Yes, Chuck.
Every day for the last 50 years, America has failed itself.
This isn't so much a turning point as Wiley Coyote looking down after he walks off a cliff.
That's what this is.
And okay, here we go.
Well, if we don't aid Ukraine, Putin will be walking all over Ukraine.
We will lose the war.
Immediately.
Immediately.
He's on to, he's on to you, and he's on to Ukraine.
This is the turning point for America, blah, blah, blah.
Does Chuck think we all have a crackhead son who works for Burisma?
Is that what this is about?
That's weird.
He said, if we don't stand up right now for Ukraine, that Russia is going to walk all over Europe.
Listen.
We could be fighting in Eastern Europe and a NATO ally in a few years.
Americans won't like that.
Wait a minute.
I thought that was the point of.
So if.
What about the jobs?
We lost.
First of all, never about jobs, but it's always about war.
And he says that if we don't send another $100 billion to Ukraine to fight this proxy war, which is an economic war with Russia, has nothing to do with saving this sovereignty of Ukraine.
They could have had that.
They had peace agreements.
The two Minsk Accords had that.
They could have done that.
They don't want that.
They actually wanted this, and they also wanted to blow up the Nord Stream pipeline, which the United States did because they want to sell more natural gas to Europe, even though Europe, Germany, is now spending four times the amount for their energy than they were before they blew that up.
But my point is, he said that if we don't stop them, it's that whole thing, if we don't stop them there, we're going to have to stop them over here.
Well, now they're saying if we don't stop them in Ukraine, we're going to have to stop them in other parts of Europe.
Isn't that what NATO's for?
Isn't that what NATO, that's that why NATO, we have NATO?
So if he attacks a NATO country, NATO comes as a deterrent, not the United States constantly.
That's where I thought we had a deterrent.
I thought the deterrent was called NATO.
And anyway, so here, I'll play the rest of it.
I'll bring Dennis in.
If we don't help Israel defend itself against Hamas, that perpetual war will go on and on and on.
If we don't help humanitarian aid to the starving Palestinians in Gaza, hundreds of thousands could starve.
And the border, everyone has said it's chaos.
A speaker, you just saw Speaker Johnson, he said it's chaos.
We have to do something legislative a few months ago.
But what has happened, in answer to your question, so this is crucial for America.
It's a turning point.
History is going to look over our shoulders and say, did we rise to the occasion?
To his credit, Mitch McConnell did.
But too many Republicans, including Speaker Johnson, are just scared to death of Donald Trump.
Donald Trump has said he wants chaos.
Donald Trump has said, well, wait till I become president.
That'll take at least a year.
Ukraine could be gone.
The border will get much worse.
War in the Middle East will get worse, maybe bringing us into it.
He's doing it all for political reasons.
And let me just say: will senators, the crucial question, the $64,000 question, the majority of Republican senators know this bill is the right thing to do.
It's a compromise.
I don't like everything in it.
Neither does McConnell.
But it's a compromise.
That's the only way you get things important done in the Senate.
We proved that two years ago in our bipartisan legislation.
And will the senators drown out the political noise from Trump and his minions?
And do the right thing for America?
It's a crucial question.
History is looking down on every one of us right now.
Is history like Jesus or something?
I don't know, but isn't that weird?
Because the last time we had an emergency, they just locked everybody down without any legislation, and they didn't tie it to Ukraine or Israel.
They just got those lockdowns done quick.
But it's weird.
He's saying you have to drown out the noise of Trump and his supporters.
His supporters are half the country.
So he's saying you have to drown out the noise of American voters.
Dennis, what do you say to this kind of crazy warmongering?
Well, you know, without addressing my friend Chuck Schumer directly, I've served with him in the House, but, you know, we're certainly on opposite sides on this one.
Wait, Dennis, would you say we gave the wrong Schumer a comedy show after seeing?
You know, so I'm listening.
I'm listening to that segment, and I remember my friend Gorg Badow, who wrote a book called Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.
So we're set on a path here for perpetual war.
Now, what happened in Ukraine is we've sacrificed the flower of Ukrainian youth.
Russians sacrificed their young people in a war that was essentially about energy markets.
As a result, the price of energy went through the roof in Europe.
There was a destruction of an energy market with the blowing up of the pipeline.
We have a pretty good idea who did that.
But in terms of the policies here, for America, and that's what I'm concerned about, I am not concerned about any of these other countries when it comes to what are our priorities.
Our obligation is to take care of America first.
First and foremost, everything else gets set aside.
But what we've done is we have empowered a coalition, an economic coalition involving Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa.
And as a result, we have created a block, an economic block, that will threaten U.S.'s hegemony, certainly.
It'll threaten the dollar because there's more money trades going on now in won or in rubles.
The U.S., this policy of constant war is undermining the American economy.
The elasticity that the dollar has provided for the American economy's growth is being shelved.
We're being destroyed by these constant wars.
And they were totally unnecessary.
Jimmy, you started to talk about it.
I think it was in March of 2022.
There was a deal on the table that would have given Ukraine a tremendous amount of leverage and freedom.
That deal was nixed with the help of Boris Johnson.
And when a peace agreement of some kind or another, a settlement is finally achieved, Ukraine will end up with Less than they could have gotten a few years ago.
In the meantime, you have all these dead people on both sides.
And who benefits?
Well, the war contractors benefit.
That's right.
And the fossil fuel companies benefit, who are now selling liquefied natural gas to Europe at four times at least double the price that they were getting before when they were getting it through the Nord Stream pipeline.
So the same people, it's the same story.
It's just a new package, right?
And because of RussiaGate and that complete hoax that we've debunked since day one on this show, we were the first ones in the entire country to debunk Russia Gate because I brought on Bill Binney from the NSA Code Breaker.
He was a top code breaker for decades.
And he told me there was no way that Russia tapped into the DNC server.
And he proved it to us forensically.
And ever since then, and I said everybody at the Young Turks, they're going to use RussiaGate and our hatred for Putin to start a war.
And here it is.
They've always wanted to go to war with Russia.
They thought it would hurt them economically.
Then what we actually ended up doing was pushing Russia closer to China, which everybody from Henry Kissinger and Noam Chonsky said you shouldn't do that.
And they said that for decades.
And here we are doing that very thing.
The very thing that the establishment told me Donald Trump was going to do, which was wreck our reputation with the world, make everybody, our enemies, stronger.
And now is happening under Joe Biden and the neocons he's in bed with.
Now we are having power centers develop called BRICS, right?
So now there's economic power centers that are there to oppose the United States hegemony.
And once the United States dollar is no longer the reserve currency, that's going to tank our economy.
Right now, Saudi people don't know about this because they don't want you to know about this.
But our dollar, ever since we went off the gold standard, is propped up by the petrodollar, which means Saudi Arabia has agreed not to sell oil in any other currency except the U.S. dollar.
Well, because of our war in Ukraine and this meddling we've been doing all over the world, Saudi Arabia has started selling oil in other currencies, which is bad for the United States.
Nobody will tell you that except this show here.
So all the things that they say that Donald Trump is going to do, Joe Biden said Donald Trump was going to start a war with Iran.
And now he's starting a war with Iran.
So let me just...
But, you know, hold on a minute.
I just want to, you know, one of the things that I'm talking about back home here to people in the 7th congressional district where I'm running as an independent is that you go back to 9-11.
And since 9-11, the average family of four has, this regime change wars, it's cost that family about $100,000.
Think about that.
You spend money to make money.
Go ahead.
Right.
But you think about that.
You have, you know, I think it was Brown, again, the Watson Institute may have discussed this.
You've got about $8.2 trillion in the debt that's attributable to the wars.
You divide that by, you know, four families of four, $83.7 million.
You get about $100,000 per family of four.
War is creating poverty in this country.
We're not taking care of our own people, and we're all over the world telling people how to live.
But our job as a nation should be to take care of our own people.
And we sure aren't doing that because, look, child poverty is up.
You have life expectancy down.
It's harder for people to get a home.
You know, overdose debts are through the roof.
What are we doing about America?
And this is where our people in government are losing sight of what our purpose is.
It's to take care of America first and foremost, not be running all over the world telling people how to live.
You know, we know we've all had neighbors.
I don't have those neighbors now, but we've all had neighbors in our life who want to constantly put their nose in our business and they end up not being the best neighbors.
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Thanks for your support.
So I also want to ask you about here's Chuck Schumer giving a speech pledging his loyalty to basically another country.
And the problem, that's a big problem.
The APEC lobby, the Israeli lobby, and here he is genuine to them.
For as long as I live, for as long as I have the privilege of serving in the Senate from New York, I will unflinchingly, unstintingly, and with all of my strength be Shomer Yisrael, a guardian of Israel.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Yisroel Pai.
In Israel and America, the Jewish nation lives now and forever.
So he says, with Israel and America, the Jewish nation lives.
Once again, another glaring slip of the tongue.
He just pointed out who owns him once more.
They rely on Americans not really listening or paying attention.
Like when the TV ads for pharmaceuticals have all those horribly side effects that they list in a soft breath and muted tones, so nobody knows what's going on.
That's why so many people have anal leakage now.
They weren't really paying attention.
So what do you say about people like Chuck Schumer who, no matter what Israel does, no matter the genocide they're committing, he's going to support them.
Would you support this Israeli campaign in Gaza today if you were in Congress?
No, I don't.
I would not and I don't.
Our first obligation is to the United States of America.
And, you know, I'm, look, I want to see Israel continue to exist as a country.
And frankly, the guidance that the United States is providing for Israel may be counterproductive To that.
When you look at the arms that are being provided with the money that has been provided and the destruction that is going on in Gaza and the killings in the West Bank, the entire Arab world is literally up in arms over this.
It's not sitting back.
And Israel as a nation could be at risk.
And there's people who are in the Jewish community who are painfully aware of that.
And so, again, Jimmy, as a member of Congress, I feel very strongly that our first obligation is to America.
And beyond that, if we really want, you know, Israel is a friend to many people in the Congress.
I got that.
But we cannot let our friends be accomplices to murder.
We cannot let our friends be accomplices to genocide.
We have to guide them.
You know, if our brothers and sisters are killing each other and that's what's happening, it's for us to help them reconcile so the killing stops.
Unfortunately, that's not our approach in the Middle East.
These wars continue.
The potential for it to go from local to regional to international is there.
And my voice in the Congress as an independent will be to point out the folly of these wars, you know, and the danger of us losing sight of what the purpose is of the United States of America for our own people.
Dennis, let me just, before I bring you, I just want to remind people: we're here with Dennis Kucinich.
He is running as an independent in Ohio's 7th district for the House of Representatives.
Russ Dobuler has a question for you.
Go ahead, Russ.
Listening to Chuck Schumer there talking about both funding Israel and funding relief efforts, it reminded me of the line in Apocalypse Now where Willard says, it's a way we had over here of living with ourselves.
We cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a band-aid.
It was a lie.
Isn't the best way to help the Palestinians to cut off funding to Israel?
Well, I think the best way to help the Palestinians right now, ceasefire, end the war, find a way to help the Palestinians have their own state or states, make it possible for people to survive, stop sending money over to kill more people.
And, you know, we're in a place right now.
I just want to go back to what I said.
We keep on, all these wars are on a credit card.
And not only that, but Jimmy, you know, a moment ago, you talked about Russia and China.
So do we really have the capacity to be in a war with Russia, a war with China, a war in the Middle East?
Is somebody thinking about how does this serve the maintenance of our United States of America?
Again, we're losing our way.
We should be paying attention to our concerns here at home, which ought to be housing and health care and wages.
Then we should cut off funding to Israel, right?
Can't taper off a policy scheme, Russell.
Yeah, I mean, look, stop the war, period.
And, you know, and not just Israel, but we need to look at all foreign military aid across the board.
We need to start to pull back these 800 bases that we have around the world, which are running up the deficit.
You know, I think it was Michael Hudson who wrote about back in 1972, he looked at Vietnam and he said that much of the trade deficit at that time was attributable to the Vietnam War.
So when you think about the consequences, you know, the bottom line is who's going to pay for this?
And the American people are back home worried about if they can afford their mortgage, if they can afford their rent, because right now it's increasingly difficult for people to be able to buy homes.
You know, the cost, the median cost, I think it was David Stockman recently reported that in the last decade, the median cost for a house has gone up in terms of people's budget, has gone up from 21 to 41 percent of a family budget.
I mean, how are people going to survive?
This whole idea of empire, of world hegemony, is lunacy.
It is a fantasy that we have to disabuse ourselves of and start focusing on what the needs are of the American people first and foremost.
I find it shocking that they don't.
That their biggest plea is for war.
It's like, you've got to fund this war.
You've got to fund that war.
We need more.
And so you would be for closing down some of those 800 military bases that the United States has around the world, yes?
Yes.
And let's go further.
You look at Russia, you look at China.
China in particular has focused on the economic growth of the country.
Now, I voted against China trade.
I thought it was a rotten deal for the U.S. And these big multinational corporations went into Gucci Gulch outside the capital, thousands of lobbyists, and they basically bought off the Congress.
And we ended up with a China trade deal for most favored nation that added to the economic stress in our own country.
And it was all to help lower wages here and drive up profits to the big multinationals.
Now, look, I understand how this system works.
And that's why to go back to Congress as an independent, I can be a voice for reason and sanity, for economic integrity, and for taking care of things at home first, not having bases all over the world.
You know, it'd be nice to have, instead of building bases, to build schools, for example.
What a thought.
And instead of building jails, also build schools, right, and community centers.
Or at least make the jails a little roomier since they're double the size, double the populations Intended all of them.
So let me ask you what would be your solution right now.
So people, it seems really crazy what's happening with our border, right?
Everybody knows that you have to have some kind of an orderly immigration policy.
And my theory here at this show, what I've said, was wages were too high.
So it's a tight labor market.
And what Bernie used to say, just as recent as 2016, was that it's a Koch brothers policy to have open borders that flood our country with low-wage workers to suppress wages.
And right now it's a tight labor market.
It's like 3.4 unemployment percent unemployment.
And so that's one big reason why they're doing it.
Also, they can't meet their military recruiting numbers anymore, as Dick Durbin admitted in the Senate.
And so that's why he's pushing for a bill to allow illegal immigrants to join our military and then immediately give them citizenship.
And so it's a very nefarious game that they won't fix homelessness.
Let's start there.
Dennis, why do you think the establishment won't fix homelessness?
And do you have a plan to address it?
Homelessness is a great American scourge.
I mean, I'm here in Cleveland, Ohio, where people are begging for food and for money to buy food at freeway exits where people are sleeping on street grates where heat's coming up in order to avoid freezing while they're outside in the winter.
Homelessness is a disgrace.
And, you know, granted, there are mental health implications, but not anymore.
I mean, you have families that don't have a place to live.
Now, when I was growing up in Cleveland, there was a time when my family lived in a car.
Just so your audience knows this, they may not realize it.
Where I come from, by the time I was 17, my family lived in 21 different places, including a couple cars.
We were a big family, couldn't find rent, okay?
That was 60 years ago and more.
Today, it's much more of a problem in this country.
People don't have shelter.
It's an obligation of a country to provide shelter, and it's an obligation to provide jobs, and it's an obligation to keep wages up, and it's an obligation to be able to make service in the military honorable so the people who live in this country understand that you can defend your country in many ways, but not necessarily the only way by going to war.
That only if America is really threatened.
And right now, we're threatened from within.
The outside threat is nothing compared to the inside threat.
And so I'm, you know, I want to go back to the border issue, Jimmy, because this discussion raises it.
My position, some people may think it's heartless, seal the border.
You don't have a country if you don't have borders.
You know, people can't get into Canada, just walk over.
It's not going to happen.
You know, you can't get over there in a boat or a plane.
You're not going to walk across the bridge to Ontario or from Niagara Falls.
The immigration should be regularized, and we have gotten away from that.
And as a result, it's not just that a plan to drive down wages, which Sandra and Bernie Sanders pointed out, and perhaps a plan to get more people in the military, but it's also we've opened the door, the borders for mules and drug cartels and anybody that wants to assault American cities with their illicit economic activity.
And frankly, this whole thing about the border is a nightmare.
And the fact that the Biden administration has let it continue, to me, is reprehensible.
What do you say?
I've had people say when I make the case that, you know, I've heard you just say it, if you don't have a border, you don't have a country.
But it's obvious that the billionaire class wants to have this open border for whatever reason.
It loses your country now.
And people tell me that, well, Joe Biden's spending more on border security than Donald Trump did.
And I'm like, well, he's spending more on Ukraine security, too.
That doesn't mean that's what that money's going for, right?
That money is.
That's worse than if he didn't spend anything.
So he's not spending.
So again, so what do you say to that?
Have an audit.
Yeah, let's have it and find out where that money's going, right?
Really, exactly.
Okay, all right.
That's great.
And so what would you say would be your top issues that you are running on?
Again, Dennis Kucinich running for Ohio's 7th House District as an independent, God bless him.
What would be your biggest issues, top three issues?
Well, restore the American economy, and that goes in with stopping these endless wars, start taking care of things back here at home in terms of wages, housing, make housing more accessible and affordable.
Certainly border security is a big issue back home because people are concerned.
Wait a minute, somebody come into the country and they can get, seemingly get benefits that people who've lived in this country all their life can't get.
And there's a resentment that's building up against any kind of immigration.
And, you know, legal immigration is one thing, but sanctioning illegal immigration is wrong.
So I'm looking at a range of issues that all go back to economics, Jimmy, that all go back to looking at how we establish our priorities.
And our priorities are totally out of whack.
We should be looking at how we strengthen the dollar, not policies that weaken it.
We should be looking at our energy policies in terms of realistic, realistically, making sure that we have proper diplomacy that enables us to simultaneously avoid the wars and keep the price down.
And we need to look at what we might do collectively as a country to start to deal with these high levels of atmospheric carbon, which are still a problem.
There's no question about it.
You know, it involves a much larger, a wider discussion.
But, you know, just For my own part, because I remember, you know, at the beginning of the show, somebody came in and asked what is my position on the environment.
I've been a vegan for 29 years.
That's a personal choice I made.
I drive a car.
I live in a house that the same house for 53 years, 1,208 square feet in a working-class neighborhood in Cleveland.
I drive a hybrid.
I just traded in my 2009, because the battery died, for a 2022 hybrid that gets, you know, 36, 37 miles to a gallon.
What kind of jet do you have, though?
Or your wife's jet.
Maybe it's your wife's jet.
Who knows?
Didn't show up to the Nancy Pelosi School of Insider Trading when he was in Congress.
No, no, he didn't.
No, no, but we need to look at stock buybacks too, okay?
You know, I look, we each make our own commitment.
And don't forget war.
You want to talk about what contributes to atmospheric carbon levels?
How about war?
War's got to be one of the largest contributors, unnecessary.
You know, each bomb that blows up, in addition to being a curse on Americans' budget, is contributing to more war.
And Jimmy, you know, there are people who are still hot for a nuclear confrontation, okay?
I gave a speech on the floor of Congress years ago where I was talking about: hey, you want to drop a nuclear weapon on Iran?
Have you thought about the radioactive pollution that's going to go around the world and comes home?
You know, my approach is based on common sense.
It's reality-based.
It's based on where I come from.
It's based on addressing the needs of people and taking care of things here at home.
And so that's a message that this campaign is carrying forward.
If people are interested in helping in any way, go to consentage.com.
You'll see my announcement speech, which will cover some of the things we just talked about, Jimmy.
But I'm, you know, America's always had a crossroads, but right now, we're in trouble.
And I think most people realize that.
No matter what generation you're a part of, you realize the country's in trouble.
And we've got to start focusing on things here and quit.
It's always easy to deflect attention and look at something in another place and say, well, we'll take care of that.
No, no.
America.
Right.
It's always amazing to me.
We can't get health care, living wages, education, infrastructure to our own country, but somehow we're going to be able to accomplish that in everybody else's country.
It's the craziest thing.
And so what do you say?
So I just saw, I see news report after news.
I just saw another news report.
I mean, you've touched on this.
In Boston, they are now using a community center to house illegal immigrants.
And now the local residents, and this is in an African-American community, and they're outraged over this, that they're not allowed to use their own community center.
They've become white supremacists.
So let's put it in a briger, let's put it in a bigger context.
So I don't know if you've seen the studies done, but after Occupy Wall Street, no, let's remind people what Occupy Wall Street was.
It was a response to Bill Clinton deregulating Wall Street because he was a puppet of the military industrial complex and Wall Street, and he was no friend of the working man.
So he took away all the regulations that kept Wall Street from screwing and crashing.
Within 10 years after we repealed Glassdeagle, it crashed.
And it hurt most.
Who did it hurt?
It hurt working people.
And so people from the left, right, and center came together at Occupy Wall Street to protest the way they handled that, right?
Which way they handled that was Barack Obama bailed out the banks and he made sure they didn't miss their bonuses, the bankers, and he kicked 5.1 million families out of their houses.
So when people saw the game that was being played, it was Democrats and Republicans coming together to serve corporations and screw regular Americans.
They did occupy Wall Street.
And so the establishment then had to realize we have to figure out how to divide and conquer these people again because when they come together, that's the only thing that scares people.
And that's why I'm glad you're running as an independent.
The only thing that scares the establishment is when people from the left and the right come together to oppose them.
But what they've been doing ever since then is trying to get us to turn on each other.
And if you look at the studies, the mentions of white supremacy and racism have skyrocketed in the media, the corporate-owned media.
There's only six companies run by billionaires.
And my theory is that is there to divide us, to keep us thinking that our problem is our neighbor.
Instead of the problem, is the oligarchy that has been doing this controlled demolition of our economy that is crushing everybody.
They don't want us to realize that and come together and oppose them.
So that's they're using our fear of white supremacy and racism against us.
Not that racism doesn't exist in America and it isn't a problem, but they are using it and focusing on that as a way to divide us.
Do you share that concern?
Well, look, I've lived in integrated neighborhoods my whole life.
The house that I live in in Cleveland is in an integrated neighborhood.
And to me, I see the world as one.
I see the world as interdependent and interconnected, that we're all brothers and sisters.
The human genome theory says we're 99.9% made of the same stuff.
And race, color, creed are fractions of light that come through a prism of human unity.
So this idea of racism in our society is abhorrent.
And trying to turn people in Massachusetts and other places into white supremacy because they want to use a community center.
I mean, it's just, what it does, though, seal the border.
Don't bring more people in across that border.
And people who are already here, look, we don't want, it's bad enough that people are starving in the streets who were born in this country, but we have to do something to make sure that people aren't hungry.
And we also have to, in some cases, we're going to have to give people a chance to go back to the country of origin and to deal diplomatically with the conditions in those countries that cause people to want to leave.
There's a lot of desperation out there.
And America, you know, we can be a beacon, but we first have to be a beacon to our own self as a nation.
And we can't pretend that we just open the borders everywhere.
And I'm very concerned about the political games that are being played to pit people.
You said it, Jimmy, to pit people against each other.
It's by design.
Now, our campaign, you know, this is our logo right here.
It's American Eagle.
And we have in the Congress above the canopy of the House, there's an American Eagle.
And I would point to it often and tell my colleagues that American Eagle needs two wings to fly.
You know, it also needs a heart and a brain.
So I hope to be able to break some of those attributes back to Congress.
Well, I really appreciate your candor and your unflinching support of peace and sanity and the working class.
And, you know, it's that old saying, physician, heal thyself.
If we can't take care of our own people, if we have hundreds of thousands of people and children homeless in America that we are not addressing and fixing, we cannot be having an open border, bringing in even more desperate people.
And I'm not, that is not to demonize people who want to come here or the immigrants at all.
It's not their fault.
They're the victim of our foreign policy just as much.
Our drug, our drug war.
But at the same time, letting them come in to cities that can't take care of their own people is not a solution.
All that does is create tensions.
It creates anti-immigrant sentiment, and nothing good is going to happen from that.
And you're on that 100%.
They can lock down all of us, but not the border.
They could lock down everybody in the country.
How is that possible?
For two years straight, but they couldn't lock down the border.
But it raises a question about what government isn't doing right in this country, like surveillance.
Remember, I voted against the Patriot Act because I read it.
I don't like the surveillance society.
I want to see ways in which we can return people's freedom.
Again, it's about freedom in this country, not to create, quote, freedom in other places because we deliver bombs and we have an American flag on the warhead.
No, we have to change our direction.
And that's something that I'm about.
That's something this campaign as an independent is about.
And again, Jimmy, I could very well end up being the only independent elected to the House in 2024 in a pivotal position, which I will use to help workers, to help rebuild the middle class, to help save small businesses, and to get us out of these endless wars.
So something that's near and dear to my heart is free speech and anti-censorship.
And we were all censored during COVID, unbelievably, at the behest of big pharma and the liars.
Where do you stand on that?
Look, you know, this idea of these big tech companies basically purloining the First Amendment and squatting on it and saying, free speech for me, but not for thee.
I have a, you know, yeah, I mean, the idea of censoring people, free speech is the cornerstone of this country.
And the minute that we let it be eroded in any way, we put ourselves at the mercy at this place at this time in a connote system that is adverse to human values.
And so, yeah, I mean, I have, you know, my feeling, stand for free speech, speak freely.
You know, that's what I did in Congress.
I gave hundreds of speeches over the years, most of them trying to keep us out of wars or get out of wars.
But the basic cornerstone of our country has to be free speech.
And, you know, freedom of the press, A.G. Liebline famously said it belongs to the person who owns one.
The fact that there's been a contraction in media ownership is a major problem at every level.
And, you know, it's not just print, but it's the internet, it's the television stations, you know, which, of course, their market share is sinking.
The whole media landscape has changed.
But the cornerstone has to be free speech.
And Julie, where do you stand on Julian Assange?
Oh, look, he ought to be released.
He is a prime example.
Julian Assange is a prime example of what happens when the military-industrial complex wants to crush someone who's exposing actually what is going on.
Now, reporters for conventional media would get a Pulitzer Prize for what he exposed.
But what does he get?
He gets a jail cell.
He ought to be released.
And it's a fundamental principle that whistleblowers have to be protected.
And he was a whistleblower.
He's also a journalist.
The fact that there aren't more journalists from the so-called mainstream defending him is really a market share question, right?
And I'm, you know, to me, it's not even, it's not even close.
Hassan should have never been jailed.
He should have never been left to have to sequester himself in the embassy in London.
He shouldn't be in a cell right now in the UK.
And he shouldn't be extradited to the United States.
There shouldn't be more of a trial.
But the people who led us into that war in Iraq, Jimmy, they need to be held accountable.
They need to be held accountable for the 5,000, almost 5,000 American men and women who lost their lives, the tens of thousands injured, the million Iraqis.
there were war crimes committed in the name of the American people.
They lied to us.
And that is who we should be focusing on for accountability.
Not a guy who said, hey, do you know what?
They're killing people in this situation that is horrific.
And why aren't we not saying something about that?
I mean, if, you know, so, yeah, Assange ought to be free.
No question about it.
Okay.
Well, we really wish you the best of luck in your campaign.
I'm a big Dennis Kucinich supporter.
I was born in Euclid, where he's from.
Oh, no kidding.
Yeah, Euclid, Ohio.
Oh, look at that.
What is that?
The Euclid Panthers?
What's their young?
I went to Thomas Jefferson Elementary and Euclid.
Well, listen, we're going to do what we can to take care of Northern Ohio.
But Euclid's not in my district, but I'm very familiar with it.
Hey, Russ has one more question about insider trading.
Go ahead, Russ.
All right.
So Nancy Pelosi, every single year, outperforms the world's greatest money managers.
And to be fair, it's not just her, both sides of the aisle.
She just happens to do it better than anybody else.
Isn't this blatant insider trading?
And shouldn't these people go to prison?
And if you were in Congress, would you introduce proposals for the SEC to investigate Nancy Pelosi and other members of Congress who are clearly clearly profiting from insider trading?
Yeah, I, you know, look, first of all, I'm not going to come away from this interview and say that I want to put Nancy Pelosi in jail.
That is not going to happen.
Well, why not?
We can't even blame people for torture.
Well, look, should we address the insider trading?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's, you know, members of Congress should not be trading.
These portfolios that people have, you know, at the best, they should be put in trust.
And they, you know, and sometimes people will say they've done that.
But, you know, with members of Congress, you know, unfortunately, for the Senate and for some members of the House, you know, mostly people are multi-millionaires, decamillionaires, and beyond.
Sometimes, not always, but sometimes when you get a distance from a certain income group, you forget about the massive American people just trying to make ends meet.
Well, you know, I can just tell you that would I be working on those kind of reforms that you suggest?
Yes.
Am I about putting people in jail?
Nah, but am I about stopping the practice?
Absolutely.
But doesn't it hurt any kind of faith people have in government when people say, no, no, no, Nancy shouldn't go to jail.
I would go to jail if I were outperforming Warren Buffett.
Northeast Stewart.
I'd go to jail.
She went to jail.
Kirk would go to jail.
So why doesn't Nancy go to jail?
Well, you know what?
I'm telling you again that I'm, you know, remember, I go in as an independent.
I want to be in a position where I can bring people together.
It would be kind of difficult to do that if I want to put in jail one of the leaders of the Democratic Party.
Not going to do it.
I'd make you very popular, though.
What are you going to try war crimes too, you mean?
Check, please.
Hey, before I let you go, I just want to ask you about your stint with the RFK Jr.
And, you know, we think a lot of people have, you know, attracted to his free speech stance like you have, anti-censorship, his ability to stand up against corporations as an environmental lawyer.
And he stood up against big pharma.
And he's the only voice that a lot of people have about COVID.
And then he got it right on Ukraine, which was amazing.
And then he totally throws it all out the window when it comes to Gaza and Israel.
And he even went even further and kind of saber-rattled with Iran and Venezuela and China and Russia over oil.
So tell me about how if you want to talk about it, I would appreciate it if you share with our audience what that was like.
Because I know you're a staunch supporter of the Palestinians and you want peace.
And you've always been for peace.
So tell me, what was it like to be his campaign manager and how did you guys split?
Well, Bobby and I have known each other 30 years.
He actually flew to Cleveland prior to the campaign, met with myself and my wife, Elizabeth, and we talked about the campaign.
And when he told me that he was going to run as a Democrat, I told him, look, what can I do to help?
And he immediately asked me, would he run my campaign?
I said, sure.
Bobby and I are friends.
And as the campaign evolved, without getting into areas that cross into a violation of a do-not-disclosure agreement, that is a contract that I had, I will say this, that, you know, there were disagreements that occurred.
And I felt that I was at a crossroads where I had to make some decisions about whether the campaign was totally consistent with the direction that I wanted to see it go in, or maybe it was time for me to go in another direction.
So I chose to go in another direction.
I love Bobby Kennedy.
He's a good man.
And I wish him well.
I have my own campaign now.
And believe me, that's what I'm focusing on.
Okay.
All right.
Everybody, where can people go?
They want to support you.
Kucinich.com.
There it is right over your shoulder.
Kucinich.com.
And it would be, you know, you can help by contributing.
You could help.
If you want to come to Northern Ohio and help us canvass, we're going to be covering the doors of voters in four counties.
You might Help on research.
I mean, any way that you think you might be able to help, go to kucinich.com, send us a message, let me know.
In many ways, this is really about securing America's position for its own people.
And that's kind of what I'm about.
That's what this campaign is about.
Jimmy, it means a lot to be on your show and to have this discussion.
It's about getting real.
It's about looking at things as they are and coming up with an approach that can address the practical aspirations of the American people.
And those practical aspirations, I can guarantee you, do not include endless war.
They're about jobs and wages and health care and housing and retirement security and good neighborhoods, crime, you know, addressing the crime issues that are afflicting a lot of neighborhoods.
We need to recover our country, and I'm ready to do that.
So thank you so much for being on your show.
Okay, thank you for coming on.
Everybody, check out Kucinich.com.
He's running as an independent in Ohio's 7th House District.
We wish you all the luck.
We'll talk to you again soon, hopefully.
Thanks again, Jimmy.
I appreciate it very much.
Hey, become a premium member, go to jimmydoorcomedy.com, sign up.
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That's it for this week.
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