Nick Bryant details his 35-year investigation into the Franklin Scandal, a child trafficking network in Omaha larger than Epstein's, alleging CIA assets and Attorney General Richard Thornburgh were compromised. He discusses acquiring Epstein's black book, which led to Gawker's lawsuit by Peter Thiel, and critiques climate change narratives as scams while linking Epstein to Mossad and the Rothschilds. Bryant argues that flooding the zone with 3.5 million redacted documents distracts from justice, urging Americans to unite against government cover-ups via his organization, Epstein Justice, rather than waiting for elite accountability. [Automatically generated summary]
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The Franklin Scandal00:15:10
Welcome to the Dellingpod.
Nick Bryant, you're in a European time zone.
Well, I live in New York City, but I try to be ubiquitous.
So here I am.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
So tell us about yourself before we go on.
You're American.
I am American, born and raised in the Midwest.
And I am a writer.
I've been writing.
I've been a professional writer for 35 years.
And a lot of my writing has focused on lower socioeconomic children in the United States of America.
I've written a book about the hurdles lower socioeconomic children face in the United States.
I've written a number of articles.
And then in 2002, 2003, I kind of stumbled across a nationwide child trafficking network that had been covered up.
And I spent the next seven years writing a book on that called The Franklin Scandal, a story of Power Broker's Child Abuse and Betrayal.
And that was published in about 209 to 10.
And then I started to investigate Jeffrey Epstein in 2011.
And what I found when I investigated Jeffrey Epstein was basically a carbon copy of the Franklin scam.
And I, this is back in 2011 when nobody even knew the name Jeffrey Epstein.
So I actually acquired his black book in 2011, and I would eventually acquire his flight logs.
But no one wanted to touch it in the mainstream media.
No one.
And I sat on that till, I sat on those things till 2015.
And finally, somebody was willing to publish it.
And we published the black book and the flight logs in 2015 on Gawker, which was eventually sued into oblivion by one of Jeffrey Epstein's friends, Peter Thiel.
And there was, we were thinking of there'd be a bang, but there was kind of a whimper.
And then in 2019, Americans just weren't ready for what we had to say, I think.
That was the problem.
And then in 2019, after Jeffrey Epstein got arrested, there was a renewed interest in it.
So, yeah, I'm dimly aware of the Franklin scandal.
And you can tell me more about it.
But I've got to ask you, how come you're still alive?
Well, people ask me that all the time.
Yeah.
I've only had one death threat.
So.
What form did that take?
How explicit was it?
It was the first.
Okay, so the Franklin Network, the epicenter of it was Omaha, Nebraska.
That's where they got most of the kids.
But they'd fly them around the country, but mostly to DC at a party house that was right for audiovisual blackmail, much like Craig Spencer or Jeffrey Epstein's homes.
And it was the, I'd been in Omaha for about seven or eight days, asking questions, talking to various people that had been involved.
And on my last night, and actually, I had an old friend that lived in Omaha and I was staying with him.
And then on the last night, a woman came to the door and told me I was in great danger and I was going to get killed.
Did she feel like somebody who was friendly or was it concerned or was it basically a warning, a threat?
I've got a magniloquent vocabulary and I've been a writer for 35 years, but I really would have a hard time describing her and what she came across as.
She was a very strange looking woman and someone that was definitely on the spooky side.
So, I mean, just taking a look at her would make you step aback.
So that was, that was my first death threat.
And I investigated some really heavy-duty stories in the past, but that was my first death threat.
And I was also followed there, too.
When I was in Omaha, I caught someone following me and in a car.
And then the Nebraska State Patrol, which played an integral role in covering this up, started to call my friend's house on a daily basis.
And then when I was talking to people that had been involved in this, there were some fairly high-profile deaths in this, in the Franklin scandal.
And when I was talking to people, it was like I was talking to, it was like I was writing the expose on the KGB in Stalinist Russia.
People in Omaha were terrified to talk about this.
It's, I mean, I don't know how American listeners will feel about this, but I think most European viewers watching this will be going Omaha, Nebraska.
It's like, it's like Boringsville.
Nothing ever happens there.
Was there any particular reason that this happened in Nebraska or was it happening everywhere and you just happened to expose it there?
Well, I think it happens in a lot of places.
Nebraska is different, though.
Strategic Air Command, which is the brain of the U.S. defense, is located at Stratcom, which is just outside Omaha.
So there's an inordinately high number of CIA personnel in the Omaha area because of Stratcom.
Right.
And I believe, and I think that law enforcement is kind of hooked into that.
And I think that they keep pretty close tabs on people that might encroach upon StratCon.
Right.
Before you expose the Franklin scandal, were you?
Did you sort of believe more or less in the system or were you always skeptical?
My first major investigation, I'm from Minneapolis, and it was for the Alternative Weekly.
And there was a serial killer killing prostitutes in Minneapolis.
And law enforcement denied that.
And I, through a lot of investigation, a lot of work, I got the names of 38, mostly prostitutes, that had been stabbed, strangled, or beaten in the previous eight years.
And then I brought it to the law enforcement and I said, you still want to go on with this story that there's no serial killer?
And then they became somewhat receptive.
But then a task force was formed after that.
So, but I think had that article not come out, definitely, without a doubt, a task force wouldn't have been formed.
And I also interviewed the former boss of the Lucchese crime family, one of the five major crime families in the United States, at the Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.
And he told me he was using highly decorated NYP detectives for hits.
And I started to investigate that.
And the feds had said that he was a psychopath and that he was responsible for 36 homicides and he shouldn't ever be believed.
And just because someone's a psychopath, it doesn't mean that they can't tell the truth.
I mean, they don't have any compunction about lying, but it doesn't mean that that precludes them from telling the truth.
So I started digging into that and I got an FBI document about those cops doing hits.
And I accumulated other evidence.
And I brought it back to the magazine that sent me out there.
And they said, well, you know, Nick, these are highly decorated police officers, and this guy's a psychopath in prison for 10 life sentences.
But I said, you know, here's some evidence that basically corroborates him.
And the magazine wouldn't go with it.
And this was in 1999.
And six years later, those cops were indicted for doing hits for this mob boss.
So, in two major investigative articles that I'd done, I had seen tremendous malfeasance in both state and federal law enforcement.
This, on the other hand, was difficult to grasp because the federal government and state government were covering up a child trafficking network, as we're seeing with the Epstein case.
And if you cover up a crime, you're aiding and abetting that crime.
And it was hard for me initially to get my mind around that the federal government would aid and abet child trafficking.
But and I went to Omaha the first time very skeptical.
But then I came back from Omaha very, very kind of discombobulated.
I realized it was true.
And I mean, I was freaked out about the death threat and the other stuff.
But what freaked me out even more was that it was true that there was this huge child trafficking network that was destroying children one after the other.
And that had been covered up by state and federal law enforcement.
I just found that sign.
I thought that there would be a line in the sand somewhere.
And who was running this operation?
The pimp in D.C. was named Lawrence King, and the pimp in Washington, D.C. was named Craig Spence.
King oversaw, he managed a credit union, the Franklin credit union, ergo the Franklin scandal.
And Craig Spence was a power broker in Washington, D.C., who had a mansion in a very upscale part of D.C. that was right for audiovisual blackmail.
And he was also a CIA asset.
And I believe that he was blackmailing people for the dark, malignant corner of CIA that does that type of thing.
So his function was to collect compromise and use the truck at children.
He had a source for children, but he primarily relied upon King to bring kids in.
And where did they find these?
What numbers are we talking about here?
Hundreds.
The Franklin Network was operational for about 10 years.
And the Epstein network was operational for about 25 years.
But I think that the Franklin network was much bigger than the Epstein Network.
Right.
I think in totality, they probably destroyed probably about the same number of children.
But the Franklin Network was much bigger than the Jeffrey Epstein network.
And where are they getting these children?
Predators are, they know how to pray.
There's an orphanage on the outskirts of Omaha called Boys Town.
It's probably the most iconic orphanage in the world.
They were plundering Boys Town for underage prostitutes.
And they were also plundering the foster care system.
There was a foster care.
There was someone who put children in foster care homes where they would be trafficked.
And then kids just fall between the cracks too, runaway kids, kids that have no really latchkey kids whose parents are busy, don't really keep tabs on them.
Those type of kids fall through the cracks and they're scooped up too by networks like this.
Right.
And these children, what ages?
The primarily Spence and King liked pubescent boys, just like Ghelaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein like pubescent girls.
But if you wanted someone, if you wanted a kid that was younger, they would get you a kid that was younger.
And I've known that Epstein was trafficking girls under the age of 12 for quite some time.
And now, because of the Epstein documents that have come out, we're seeing that some of these kids were trafficked at a very young age.
Right.
And so they're being used for prostitution, obviously.
I don't know if I would call that prostitution.
These are kids.
So.
What I mean is that they're being used to provide sexual favors for.
Yes.
But presumably, for some of these poor kids, it's much worse than that.
They're basically being sold to be killed by people who get their kicks out of it or to be killed for satanic ritual purposes.
There was an occult dimension of the Franklin scandal, and there were extremely sadistic pedophiles.
With the Epstein scandal, I've also known about extremely sadistic pedophiles.
And now we're getting accounts of victims, alleged victims that were possibly killed.
But I should say that those accounts aren't very solid.
They're tenuous and they need to be investigated.
But our government, the United States government, has declared that only Jeffrey Epstein and Ghelane Maxwell acted alone.
Epstein and Sadistic Pedophiles00:15:51
They had no co-conspirators.
So the government hasn't been inclined to investigate any of the documentation that's been given to them.
The hundreds of thousands of documents.
I want to come on to Epstein in a minute, but presumably before the Franklin operation, there were many similar operations going through the decades.
It didn't suddenly start in the when was the Franklin scandal in the 1980s, 90s?
Late, it was in the 80s and then started up in the early 90s.
I mean, I can't believe that it wasn't also happening in the 40s and the 30s and the 20s.
Yeah, I mean, child trafficking isn't something new.
But with the Franklin network and also with the Epstein network, you've got pinhole cameras, and it's very easy to provide compromise on people.
So the technology has changed, and it's much easier to compromise people.
So what you mean, these pinhole cameras were installed in the rooms where they're, yeah.
And how senior were the in the well, the Franklin scandal first.
How, what, what level of politician are we talking about here?
I think senators, congressmen, At least one person in the cabinet of George Herbert Walker Bush, I think, was a predator.
Well, why stop at one?
I mean, everything I know about George H.W. Bush, I mean, he was involved in gun running.
He was in charge of gun running, pretty much.
He'd be there at the airport ready to greet the consignments.
He was instrumental in all kinds of activities which involve terrible things happening.
So, well, he at one point was the head of the CIA.
So, no, I think that he did many evil things.
But what I know is that I believe that at least one person in his cabinet, a high-ranking cabinet member, was a pedophile.
Can you name him?
His name was Richard Thornberg.
He was the attorney general.
Right.
So, the guy in charge of the law system.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, you've got just skipping forward a second, you've got on the flight log on the Epstein Island flight logs, you've got people from the Supreme Court, haven't you?
Okay, so that I have not seen those flight logs.
I mean, it's rumored that there are people innuendo on the Supreme Court like John Roberts, but I have not seen those particular flight logs.
And with these documents, you got to be very careful because some of them are disinformation and some of them are misinformation.
And I've stubbed my toe a couple of times on these documents.
So you got to tread very carefully when looking at a lot of these documents.
Yeah, I can see that.
I mean, I can see.
Well, given that the organizations like the CIA are going to be in it up to the neck, both in terms of actually participating in these disgusting activities and profiting by them, but also in the cover-up, inevitably there's going to be lots of misinformation and disinformation out there.
I totally get that.
So how do you work out what's kosher and what is CHAF?
Well, you have to investigate.
You got to be very, you know, as I said early on, I stubbed my toe on this.
And because I jumped on some documents, it was before I realized that the documents could be problematic.
So corroboration is helpful.
I make phone calls.
Yeah, but you can't just ring up, I don't know, Tom Cruise and say, Tom, hey, you're on the flight log.
Did you go out to Little St. James and abuse some kids?
Well, actually, I've rung up a number of people that were involved with Epstein that are very high, that have high status in society.
So, yeah, I've followed up on a lot of it.
None of them have gotten back to me.
Although Epstein's brother did get back to me.
His brother.
Yeah.
What's his name?
Epstein's brother is Mark Epstein.
Right.
Is he a nice guy?
Is he like his brother?
Well, there's an email where he's asking Epstein about the gynecologist that Epstein used for his quote-unquote victims, because apparently he needs a gynecologist.
So I asked him about that.
And he wasn't.
He did return my email, though.
He's the only one that's returned an email.
So why?
Why did he return the email?
Yeah.
I have no idea.
You'd have to ask him.
I mean, that's a bit like the serial killer wanting to get caught, isn't it?
Well, he just denied it and said that he only talks about his brother's death to journalists.
So I sent him another email.
He never got back to me.
You don't think Epstein's dead, do you?
If I had to put money on it, I would say that he was dead.
Yeah.
Would you?
Yeah.
I think I'd be happy to take that bet with you.
So you saw the terror and the pedophile formerly known as Prince Andrew's Eyes when he was arrested.
You know the picture I'm talking about?
Yeah, but I imagine that's the terror of a man who gets.
Let me finish my thought on it.
Okay.
All right.
So there was a guy who thought he was above the law and he would be unscathed by the law.
And he got arrested.
Now, if you look at the picture of Epstein when he was arrested, I think his continence shows the same type of emotions about a guy who felt he was above the law, but he was arrested nonetheless.
Or my take on both those cases would be: okay, so you're living a fabulously glitzy lifestyle with private chefs and young girls on demand, according to your boys, according to your tastes on demand, and you fly in private jets and stuff.
And you realize that for a period, you are going to have to go through the motions of being somebody who's been apprehended by the law and going through the law.
All the goodies, the taps providing the goodies are going to be turned off for a while because that's the way it is.
And it's all part of the charade.
I just don't think that, given how high-level the people involved in this were, and given the usefulness of Epstein to so many of the powers that be, I think his reward was to be to be scooted off and sent to a nice suburb of Tel Aviv and get his new private life.
Well, that is within the realm of possibility.
I don't deny that.
I look at the two pimps in the Franklin scandal.
Yeah.
The guy in Omaha was Lawrence King, and the guy in Washington, D.C. was Craig Spence.
And they're somewhat analogous to Maxwell and Epstein.
Maxwell built a machine that scooped up little girls.
And Epstein flew them around, did the logistics, blackmailed people.
When Craig Spence started, and King started to get a lot of media.
And once you get media, if you're a blackmailer, that's pretty much the end of it.
You're no longer going to be useful as a blackmailer.
Once people read about what you're doing, that's it.
And then with Epstein, there were civil suits being launched at him and also that Miami Herald series that was that outed him as a predator.
And that was in 218 and he was arrested in 219.
Now, with Kay and Spence, the Franklin pimps, Spence did commit suicide.
It's speculated that he was suicided.
I do not believe that.
He checked into the Boston Ritz-Carlton in a tuxedo and took an overdose of nortripyline.
And he had an article next to his body about CIA agents or assets being called to testify before government bodies because he had been subpoenaed by a grand jury.
And I think that it was a deal was made with him that either, because Craig Spence lived the high life.
I mean, he lived like Epstein.
He lived the high life.
And he was a power broker.
I don't think he could have made it in jail.
I just don't think he could have made it in jail.
And he couldn't have kept his mouth shut.
So I believe that there was a deal that was made with him.
Either you can kill yourself or we can kill you.
Flip side, Maxwell and Epstein.
I think Epstein had grown too fond of preacher comforts that, and there was way too much media on him.
So he had to be taken out.
Now, I believe that Maxwell made a deal, like Lawrence King made a deal.
If you keep your mouth shut, you'll be incarcerated for a while, but we'll take care of you when you get out.
And Lawrence King had a no-show job at a BMW dealership when he got out of prison after 10 years and 20 or 12 years.
And he wasn't indicted on a single kind of child abuse.
He was indicted for embezzling $40 million from the Franklin Credit Union.
So I think that those two situations are pretty analogous.
Right.
Is he still alive?
He is.
Does he get any opprobrium?
Does he get any grief from anyone?
Well, he certainly gets a lot of grief from me.
He tries to invegle himself into groups that would give him access to children.
And I've gotten him kicked out of three of those groups.
So still.
Yeah.
That's some chutzpah, isn't it?
He's a predator.
Yeah.
I mean, they don't a guy like that, a guy like Jeffrey Epstein, a guy like Lawrence King, they're addicted to molesting children.
I mean, it's an addiction to them.
And they just don't stop.
What's your impression about all the kind of the clientele that came to Little St. James?
I mean, are they in it because they actually like having sex with children, or do you think they're doing it because everyone else is doing it and it's part of the kind of the mutual sort of mutually assured compromise destruction system which they operate?
Or is it occultic?
What?
So when I was investigating the Franklin scandal, I got to a black male photographer.
That's how deep I got into that network.
I got to a black male photographer.
And there's no books about this.
Well, now there is because I wrote one, but prior to that, there was no books about this.
And I was trying to get my mind around it because it was so big and the cover-up was so massive.
And how did it work?
And I posed that question to the blackmail photographer, and he said, once you're compromised, it's like you're on a yacht and it's a beautiful yacht and it's a beautiful day and you can have anything you want on the yacht.
But if you decide to get off the yacht, the people on the yacht are going to make sure that you drown.
So there's zero incentive to get off the yacht.
And actually, if you're on the yacht, you're going to experience upward mobility in your as a politician or in your trust.
Do you know what, Nick?
I think that is my favorite analogy that describes the process.
That's absolutely.
I think it's the best one out there.
It is.
It explains so much.
It explains, it explains the music industry.
I mean, look at P. Diddy.
Have you looked into those at all?
The P. Diddy parties?
They must be some.
Big time, yes.
That was kind of the rap Epstein, wasn't it, really?
Yeah.
I mean, the fact that he only got four years was kind of mind-boggling to me because he was also trafficking minors for sexual purposes.
Yeah.
But am I not right in thinking that the equivalent of the yacht in the Diddy parties was basically if you wanted a career in music, first of all, you had to be sodomized by Diddy and about five of his associates, and then kind of you were on the yacht till the next sodomy session, probably.
Well, once you're on the yacht, sometimes it isn't always smooth sailing, but you're going to have a great career and get what you want out of life.
And there are a lot of people like that that are willing to do whatever it takes for a stardom because they think that they're going to receive the love that they were never given as children.
I think that that is a strong motivating factor for seeking startup.
Yeah.
But didn't you?
I mean, I don't know how old you are, Nick.
How old are you, if I may ask?
And that's kind of an impertinent question.
Okay.
I'll tell you, I will ask you then.
Rock Stars and Stardom00:03:57
I'm 60.
And when I was a young man, if you'd come up to me and said, James, do you want to be a rock star?
Yeah, I'm like, I get to play with my axe on stage and I get to be maybe Jimmy Page and have loads and loads of sex with loads and loads of girls and loads of drugs and a big house and a big house in another big house in the country.
I'd have gone, yeah, what's not to lie.
But now I look at that and I realize that's not, that's not the deal.
Those are the good, that's the fun, the room service on the yacht and the cocktail party, but it doesn't describe the whole thing.
When you make a Faustian pact, there are always clauses that are in the fine print that you don't read.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is it your, I mean, I'm probably straying away from your field of expertise here because I know that you're the sort of person who likes who likes verifiable facts, but I'm asking you to speculate here.
But do you think anyone achieves eminence in that industry without making that pact?
I believe that there are some.
Yeah, I do.
Wow.
How?
I've known rock stars over the years that have made it to the top because of their talent without making a fast impact.
Global warming is a massive con.
There was no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition to my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually, the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the climate change scam got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen Climate Gate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us.
We've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question, okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands out.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster.
Johnny Cash and Freud00:07:25
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother Gaya.
No, we don't.
It's a scam.
Wow.
How?
I've known rock stars over the years that have made it to the top because of their talent without making a fast impact.
Well, not every rock star is compromised.
I'm a massive fan of Johnny Cash.
And part of me cannot think of Johnny Cash having taken shit from anybody.
But at the same time, I know from his latter recordings that here was a man whose conscience was deeply troubled.
And he knew he'd signed a pact, a terrible pact.
And he kind of wanted to get out of that pact, which is why he embraced Jesus.
And you see, it infuses all his songs.
All his last songs made for American recordings.
So even Johnny Cash, who it strikes me as a man who had considerable integrity, had clearly done some terrible shit.
Yeah, I mean, he had a problem with drugs and alcohol for sure.
And that type of lifestyle is going to cause you're going to engage in behaviors that you otherwise wouldn't engage in.
Yeah.
The point I was sort of hinting at earlier was that you are, you strike me as an investigative journalist of the old school.
You're the kind of investigative reporter they don't make anymore.
You said yourself, you actually got on the phone and rang up the people on the Epstein list, even though you kind of knew they weren't going to.
But that's the kind of reporter you are.
Whereas I'm coming at this stuff from completely the other end, in that I was a mainstream media journalist, not an investigative reporter.
And then I went down the rabbit hole for various reasons about five or six years ago.
And I went on the fast track program.
So I've spent a lot of time diving into all sorts of crazy places and up to and including talking to people involved in ritual Satanism and Mothers of Darkness, MKUltra stroke monarch victims, assassins, and so on.
And it seems to me, looking at the Epstein, the Epstein files, that the idea that this was a sort of compromise network trading underage girls for politicians and other celebrities, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
You get hints of this in the various documents which have been revealed to us, even though they've been redacted.
The stuff, for example, about jerky.
I mean, you don't surely think that that is just CIA disinfo.
This is real, right?
I don't know.
I've concluded muffins are Freud, his thing was phallic symbols.
And someone asked Freud, you know, don't you think cigars are phallic symbols?
And he said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Freud is one of them.
Freud was heavily compromised by the system, by the system you're describing.
I think that in this case, a muffin is just a muffin and a steak is just a steak.
I've got a PowerPoint in which I show people the various emails how I conclude that.
Now, I don't, I think pizza is a code word.
And I hate to be even minutely affiliated with Pizzagate because that spawned a lot of insanity.
But there's a lot of talk about pizza with some very, very unsavory characters.
So I haven't really gotten into jerky yet.
I've been focused on other points of or other parts of the emails.
So I haven't looked at jerky yet.
I think you wouldn't want to get into Pizzagate for the same reason you don't want to start doing investigative stories about the Clintons because it doesn't seem to have a happy ending for people who get involved in that kind of thing.
I mean, wasn't that why Andrew Breitbart got suicide, got heart attacked?
I don't know.
And when I started investigating this realm with the first death threat, I knew that there was a possibility that these investigations could lead to my demise, but I was cool with it.
You know, if I'm going to get killed doing this, trying to expose child molestation, I'm cool with that.
I don't, I don't, I don't have a problem with it.
If I got killed because I was blackmailing someone or I committed some kind of crime, I wouldn't be cool with that.
But with this, and what's how I've been able to keep my sanity over the years are one of the major reasons why I've been able to, I know what I'm doing with this is absolutely right.
And very seldom in life do you know what's absolutely right.
You know, you shouldn't steal, you know, you shouldn't lie.
You know, you shouldn't commit adultery.
You generally know what you shouldn't do, but very seldom in life, you know exactly what you should do.
I had sushi last night for dinner.
Was that the absolute right thing to do?
I don't know.
But this is the absolute right thing to do.
So that's given me a lot of ballast.
I suppose your mercury levels will have increased as a result of the sushi.
Well, actually, I'm pretty healthy for a guy my age.
By the way, can I apologize?
Can I retract my rude question?
It was only, I know, not a problem.
You're looking, you're looking good, Nick, however old you are.
Yeah, I mean, do you because obviously I've had to think about this as well.
My sister said to me, my sister was down the rabbit hole way before I was, and said to me, Jay, I really don't want you to start satisfying your curiosity because it's going to get you killed.
And so I had that same, oh, what am I getting into here?
But do you believe in the afterlife?
Are you?
I do.
I do.
I don't think that this is the only dancer is.
Absolutely.
Steve Bannon Interview00:15:26
And actually, I was in the Epstein files myself when I was calling, when I got Epstein's black book, I started calling his inner circle.
And only one person picked up.
It was Sarah Kellen, who is a nasty piece of work, one of the henchwomen that led hundreds of girls to the slaughter.
And she told me that the media has always been mean to her.
And I thought that that was somewhat comedic.
She wanted me to commiserate with her, and I was unwilling to do that.
But then there was an email sent from We Don't Know because that was redacted, sent to Epstein's entire inner circle, talking about a journalist named Nick Bryant that's down here asking questions and to be aware of them.
And they even had my picture on the email.
So they were very much aware of me when I started to investigate Epstein's story.
And there were, and I could tell Epstein was very angry when I published the black book.
If you look at the emails, Delaine Maxwell told him that we'd published the black book, and you could tell that Epstein wasn't cool with it because of a later email with Peter Thiel.
So, where you are, Peter Thiel was trying to sue Gawker into oblivion, and Epstein said he'd share the expenses.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I mean, I'm obviously not shocked to hear this now about Peter Thiel, but there was a time when I thought, okay, so Zuckerberg is obviously a wrong, and whoever the other, yeah, I mean, Bill Gates is obviously wrong.
I thought Peter Thiel was somehow because doesn't he sort of flirt with pretending to be a Christian or something?
Peter Thiel is probably one of the worst of them all.
Is he?
Tell me more.
I mean, he's Palantir, isn't he?
Yeah.
Which is, okay, QED.
But anything else you can tell me about him?
Well, Google Peter Thiel, and there's a lot of information about him out there.
I don't want to get into it, but I'll let your audience make their own conclusions by Googling Peter Thiel and young men or young boys.
Oh, right.
Yes, of course, young men, young boys.
Bill Gates, I was grossed out to learn, named his yacht after some sort of part of the female anatomy, some sort of horrible pun or something, goy something.
Do you know about this one?
Bill Gates?
No.
Yeah.
Well, it's been very heavily, they're very good at scrubbing the internet, but the name of Bill Gates's yacht is some grotesque pun on the female anatomy.
It begins goy, but I can't remember.
I can't remember what because I haven't come across this word before.
I mean, some of the incidental detail is what you said earlier on.
You said when you were first releasing this stuff in, when was it?
It was, well, I got it.
I got the black book in 2011 and I got the flight logs in 2014, but nobody wanted to touch it in the mainstream media who I pitched it to.
And ultimately, Gawker published it in 2015.
And got shut down for the punishment.
Well, they were sued into oblivion for something completely different.
Yes, exactly.
But we know.
And the person financing that lawsuit was Peter Thiel.
Peter Thiel put an open contract out on Gawker because Gawker outed him as gay and he wanted vengeance.
On the subject of the little black book, because one of my old friends is in it.
It's presumably, I mean, loads of people completely innocent could be in the black book.
How did you get hold of it?
An attorney for one of the victims gave it to me.
Well, you had the physical book in your hand.
Well, I had a copy of the physical book.
But you had sort of photocopies kind of thing.
Yeah.
Photocopy.
Right, right.
Okay.
So, I mean, apart from being able to say you're the first to grab this black book, and how significant or not significant is it in the scheme of things?
In our understanding of Epstein, I think there's been three quantum leaps.
I think the first quantum leap was me putting up the black book and the flight logs.
I think the second quantum leap was Julie Brown's articles in the Miami Herald.
And I think the third quantum leap is the tranche of emails that have just been released.
So I do believe that me putting the black book and flight logs up was the first quantum leap in our understanding of Jeffrey Epstein.
And do you think it would have been possible to go on the private jet to Little St. James and be pure as driven snow and you go out there just to have a nice holiday in the sun with no underage boys or girls to have sex with?
Well, everyone who has gone to Little St. James has said that.
So it must be true.
I just can't buy it somehow.
I just can't imagine.
You couldn't sort of accidentally go to Little St. James thinking that Jeffrey Epstein was just a kind of unusually generous host.
You have to know what the deal was, surely.
I don't think that you would have to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein very long to really understand what exactly he was.
He was a pedophilic pimp and he wore it on his sleeve.
He didn't have a problem with it.
He had no moral compunction whatsoever about being a pedophilic pimp in a chopping license.
He had no compunction.
Have you met him?
He was a straight-up psychopath.
Have you met him?
No.
I listened to the first time today, for the first time the other day, some recordings of him actually speaking.
There was an interview that Steve Bannon did with him.
Yes.
and he didn't sound at all like i would expect jeffrey epstein i mean to sound what i think for most of us our experience of jeffrey epstein has been photographs of that sort of annoying there's something really annoying about his face about I mean, he seems sort of quite conventionally good looking, but there's something about his expressions, which are just like they creep you out slightly.
Well, I mean, the guy was a psychopath, and it's kind of hard to hide that sometimes.
A lot of times psychopaths can, but a lot of times things eke out of their personality or things that they say.
But psychopaths can often be very charming, can't they?
Definitely.
And is that the case with Epstein?
I believe so, yeah.
Right.
So all those kind of intimate emails shared between Peter Mandelson and Epstein.
I mean, Mandelson seems half in love with Epstein.
Yes.
Mandelson and Jeffrey Epstein were very, very close, one can tell.
I think that they shared various predilections together.
And it's unfortunate that Mandelson has only been arrested for giving Epstein insider financial information because he should be arrested for some other things too.
Well, yeah.
I mean, Epstein was girls.
Mandelson obviously would have been boys for preference.
Who do you think was the running Epstein?
And who was running him?
I think that there's a dark, malignant corner of intelligence, U.S. intelligence and Israeli intelligence that does this type of thing, compromises people.
I don't see how people can really debate me on that.
And people think that Epstein was exclusively Mossad.
There's been a number of emails between Ahud Barak and Epstein in which they're setting up arms deals by going to people that run armaments factories or companies in Israel and elsewhere, who have also been high-ranking Israeli intelligence.
And Ahud Barak was head of Israeli intelligence, domestic intelligence.
What Shinbet, yeah.
So with people say to me, was it the Mossad?
And I invariably respond, Epstein very well could have been working with the Mossad, but I find it hard to believe that the CIA would let the Mossad compromise American politicians on American soil and not get a cut of that intelligence.
I think I look at the Gambino, I look at the CIA and the Mossad.
They're like the Gambino and Genovese crime fans.
They work together.
Yeah.
And MI6, presumably, also.
Yes.
So they would be the Luchesi, Lucchese Lucchese Colombo or Bonano.
One of the three.
Isn't that good that we've all got our own countries have their intelligence services that we can be truly proud of?
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I get that.
But in terms of the money, I've heard Les Wexner.
And then, of course, in the emails, Epstein says, I'm representative of the Rothschilds.
So is, I mean, Les Wexner is not a nice guy, is he?
No.
He's a nasty piece of work.
And he lied before the oversight committee a couple of weeks ago.
He should be indicted for perjury before Congress.
What did he lie on?
He said that the last communication he had with Jeffrey Epstein was 2006 when there's emails from 2008.
And also, Jeffrey Epstein gave him $56 million in 2011.
So obviously they were dealing with each other after 2006, and he should be indicted for that.
$56 million.
Yeah.
It was probably just an oversight.
It's small change to these people.
So he lied before Congress, and that's a five-year and/or $250,000 fine.
But, Nick, I was going to ask you this.
Isn't one of the purposes of this Epstein document mass document release?
Isn't the true purpose of it to make us so dispirited with the system that we don't know where to turn?
So, we're kind of planet struck by this information.
We've got everything.
Well, you're not convinced by the beef jerky thing, where I probably more am, but you've got, I haven't looked into it yet.
Right.
Okay.
But we've got anyone looking at this stuff saying is going to be saying, these people are above the law.
There is no justice because all the judges are in on it, and the cops, as you demonstrated, is way back in Franklin, are in on it.
The politicians are all compromised.
What hope is there for any of us?
We started an organization called Epstein Justice.
It's a 501c3.
And I urge your audience to go to EpsteinJustice.com.
And what we're lobbying for is an independent congressional commission.
An independent congressional commission does not require the signature of the president.
It does require a majority in the House and the Senate.
And independent congressional commissions often incorporate non-government personnel to carry out investigations.
And that's the only way we're going to get truth here is if we have non-government personnel as part of the investigation.
And that's what Epstein Justice is lobbying for.
And I would suggest that your audience check us out, EpsteinJustice.com.
I think it's a noble cause, but I'm thinking, I can't remember, actually, I think there's two of the Psalms where God looks to find some good men on earth, and it says he know not one.
And I mean, you discovered way back in the Franklin scandal, if they're getting congressmen, if they're compromised, if they're on the kind of the proto-Epstein loveboat, how are you going to find people that are not tainted?
Because it seems to be everywhere.
We have started Facebook groups by state, and we are building a critical mass to put as much pressure on those representatives and federal legislators as possible.
And as we get more, we can start putting pressure on more and more and more.
And actually, we supported an Epstein protest in Sacramento, California over the weekend.
So we are a grassroots movement.
There are no billionaires helping us.
There are no millionaires helping us.
But I think that Americans really want the right thing with this case.
Grassroots Movement for Justice00:03:03
And there are three trends that hurt Americans right now, as far as getting at the truth.
Americans are heavily polarized between right and left.
That's a function of our media and our government.
People on the left think people on the right are mentally ill.
People on the right think people on the left are mentally ill.
So Americans have been divided and conquered.
And the second trend is Americans have been conditioned to think that they cannot affect change, that their government is just a runaway juggernaut and they can't do anything about it.
And I think the third trend is many of our legislators are blackmailed.
But we can take back the first two trends.
Because if anything is going to unite the right and the left, it's going to be the government covering up child trafficking, aiding and embedding child trafficking.
If anything is going to mobilize people, it's going to be the government aiding and embedding child trafficking.
Yeah, but we get these sort of drip releases, don't we?
Like there was that movie that came out a couple of years ago about child trafficking.
And I don't know whether you looked into it, but there was something slightly dodgy about this film, that it wasn't.
Oh, you're talking Sound of Freedom?
Yeah, yeah.
It was a good film about trafficking.
Unfortunately, Tim Balor, who the film was about, is a he's not a very good guy.
That's very, very tactfully put.
I was waiting for you to say something a bit stronger.
But yeah, that was kind of what I so what I mean is, well, you're familiar with the concept of flooding the zone, aren't you?
Yes.
Isn't that slightly what's been going on?
So I'm very familiar with flooding the zone.
So I say that again?
I played college football.
I played in football.
So I'm very familiar with flooding the zone.
Sorry, I don't know anything about football, either English soccer or American football.
So maybe you can just, I'm only familiar with the kind of the CIA use of that phrase.
What does it mean in football?
In football, it means putting more offensive players in an area than there are defensive players.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
And in metaphorical terms, its usage in intelligence circles, how would you describe how it works?
Well, right now, we've got this surfeit of documents, 3 million or 3.5 million.
Jewish Mafia Conspiracy00:04:22
There's a lot of redactions.
And people that should be lobbying for justice are going down rabbit holes.
And I see that longtime activists who I would think would really want to help Epicente Justice would rather go down rabbit holes.
And that's unfortunate.
And that's what happens when the zone gets flooded is people opt to go down rabbit holes than to strive for justice.
So if I understand you, the CIA and all the kind of the Mossad and all the bad, the cabal, the elites, they kind of really want people like me to be getting excited about beef jerky or about satanic stuff because it distracts our attention away from the kind of the more basic stuff of bringing these people to justice.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I suppose in the defense of kind of tinful hat lunatics like myself, there is an even bigger picture.
I mean, for example, can I ask you about the Rothschilds, who I can't imagine are going to be approaching to support your campaign.
I mean, they could afford it, but if you ask them, I don't think they're going to give you any money, are they?
I would have to say that there would be a low probability of getting money from the Rocky.
But it'd be quite game of them if they did.
Okay.
Les Wexner, the guy who owned, what were his clothing companies?
The one-brand.
Victoria's Secret, Abercrombie Fitch.
Abercrombie and Fitch.
You see, I'm young enough or old enough to remember when Abercrombie and Fitch invaded the UK.
And it was the rip.
My children were just the right age to want to go and buy Abercrombie and Fitch clothes.
And everyone wanted to get a job as one of their kind of the young men that they had selling clothes in those shops.
And they're sort of posing and pouting and stuff.
It's really interesting to know that the guy behind that outfit and Victoria's Secret was this gangster, basically, wasn't he?
The kind of Jewish mafia, I suppose.
He was hooked up with the Italian mafia.
There seems to be a sort of Crime Inc. was the Jewish mafia and the Italian mafia, right?
There's been an overlap for sure over the years.
But okay, so I don't know whether this is an area of interest to you or not, but I've noticed in the Epstein releases that there's a lot of stuff about Epstein himself is very dismissive about the Goyem, all sorts of disparaging reference to the GOI.
And then you've got the stuff about the Rothschilds, basically him being representing the Rothschilds.
There seems to be, seems to be a thing going on in America, particularly where people are noticing anti-let's call it anti-Goyem activity by the Jewish power structure.
And I was wondering whether you thought that this was a deliberate part of the operation.
It seems to me that if you look at it in sort of grand conspiracy terms, one of the requirements for Armageddon is that the world turns against Israel so that because that's where Armageddon's going to happen.
And am I imagining this, or is there a kind of an increasing amount of noticing going on in America about Jewish influence, Jewish cynicism towards goys?
America overall is very pro-Jewish or pro-April.
Trump Administration Fallout00:09:39
It has been up until now.
I'm just wondering whether the climate is changing slightly.
There's an underturrent of anti-Semitism also in America that's been there a long time.
But as far as delineating Gog and Magog, I don't know where it would even begin to start there.
Right.
That's what I'm.
I'm always looking for the look.
I'm of the view, and I suspect you probably share this up to a point, that the media is a lie machine.
I mean, good writers like yourself get in by accident rather than they don't really want good people doing good stuff.
Persona non grado, by the way.
I imagine that your mainstream career pretty much died when you started exposing stuff like Franklin.
Yeah.
So what I'm suggesting is the fact that all the Epstein files are now in the public domain in the kind of crappy newspapers that ordinary people read suggests to me that on some level, this is shit that they want to come out.
This is either a controlled release or flooding the zone or whatever.
It's another stage in their plan.
Would you agree with that?
Well, the Trump administration fought very, very, very, very hard to ensure that no documents came out.
And when the Trump administration realized it was going to lose, then all the Republicans voted for it, except for one in the House and all of them for the Senate.
And then the trench of documents came out.
Unfortunately, the Trump administration isn't living up to the letter of the law because the Epstein Transparency Act is a law.
It's going to be a law in 10 years.
It's going to be a law in 15 years unless it gets retracted.
So, the Trump administration has been breaking the law with its release of these Epstein documents.
How has it been breaking the law?
Because there needs to be a lot more documents released.
Unaction, I imagine.
There needs to be a lot less redaction.
Sure.
Yeah.
You say that they fought it hard, but they realized they couldn't stop it happening.
Who were the good guys in this then?
Who ensured that justice was done?
Thomas Massey of Kentucky and RoConna of California were the spearhead of this.
Right.
And those two refused to back down.
They're great guys.
And by the way, they support Epstein Justice, too.
Right.
My 501c3.
So you reckon it was going to be, had it not been for them, Trump would have been able to keep this stuff under wraps?
I believe so.
How implicated is Trump in this stuff?
Well, his name has come up a number of times.
But again, there's no Department of Justice or FBI investigation into any of this.
No, will it be, surely?
The Department of Justice and the FBI have said that Epstein and Maxwell have no co-conspirators, and everybody knows that's a lie.
Yeah.
And they're going to, that's why we need an independent congressional commission.
Right.
I mean, look, as I understand it, the CIA is a gun-running organization, the drug trafficking organization.
That's how it gets black budget, basically.
And it doesn't work for the U.S. taxpayer.
It works for the shadowy forces that I call them the cabal or the rulers of the darkness of this world.
I'm assuming that the FBI is just as compromised in its way.
Yes, but I'll say this: there are good people at the CIA, and there are good people in the FBI.
How do they not get killed?
I was given information for the Franklin scandal by a couple of feds that if they'd been busted giving me that information, they surely would have been fired.
But they saw what I was doing was noble.
Plus, I had some information that they wanted.
So they gave me really good information that I wouldn't have been able to get any other way.
And that shows that there are good people in both these organizations.
But the thing is, they're both tainted at the top.
With Kash Patel with the FBI and Pam Bondi with the DOJ, they are very tainted people.
They are here to cover up Epstein.
They are nasty, vicious people.
Yes, which tells you all you need to know about the level of the extent to which this corruption has penetrated the system.
And that would surely suggest that Trump is part of that.
Well, it's been the Trump administration that's fought this the whole way.
And Pam Bonnie and Cash Brattell are getting their marching orders from Trump.
So, yes.
But that's a reasonable surmise.
I'll tell you what slightly worries me about the whole thing.
I've got to take off in a few, okay?
Oh, okay.
Yeah, Do you not think there's to some degree it's a damage limitation exercise?
So as I understand it, the sort of if you asked a sort of ordinary member of the public, despite all this document leak, what their take-home from this is, they'd say, yeah, well, Prince Andrew slept with that 17-year-old girl.
And yes, Epstein was clearly trafficking young girls for exploitation by these famous people.
But at the same time, you've got frazzled rib.
Like, way worse things happen where you've got Hillary Clinton tearing off the face of a child that's just been slaughtered and putting it on her face.
I don't say that definitively.
I don't know.
That's the reporter in you, whereas I'm a kind of conspiracy nutcase.
But I think I'm right.
That in a way, if we keep this stuff in the realm of responsible reporting, which is basically what you do, we're in danger of letting the really, really, really bad stuff off the hook.
There's really, really bad stuff that I've reported on that's horrific.
That's corroborated.
So, or the email that I'm showing, like there was the billionaire from United Arab Emirates that sent Epstein a video.
And Epstein wrote back, I loved the torture video.
There are definitive examples like that.
But that guy is never going to be indicted, the Arab sheikh.
Well, he lost his job, but yeah.
But it shows how evil these people are.
Okay.
That email shows how evil these people are.
But do you think any, I mean, do you, in your heart of hearts, do you think any big names are going to heads are going to roll over this ever?
Well, a lot of big names have come out, including Les Wexner as perpetrators.
But he perjured himself and got away with it.
It's up to us as Americans, really.
It's up to us as Americans whether or not we're going to let our government get away with this.
Thank you.
You've got to go, Nick.
Thank you.
Tell me, tell us where we can find your stuff, where we can read you.
I would suggest to go to EpsteinJustice.com.
If you're interested in any of my books, you can go to nickbryantnyc.com.
But please go to episodejustice.com and we need donations.
So, and I realize your audience is primarily UK, but we still need donations.