The Delingpod - James Delingpole - Neil Oliver
Aired: 2026-03-05
Duration: 01:52:25


=== Owning Gold Yieldedly (02:46) ===

[00:00:15]  To the Delling Pot with me, James Dellingpole.
[00:00:18]  And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but before we meet him, let's have a word from one of our sponsors.
[00:00:25]  You may have noticed that gold has been doing pretty well recently.
[00:00:30]  In the last year, I think it's increased in value in sterling terms by around 50%.
[00:00:36]  And if you'd bought gold when I first started recommending it on adverts like this, you would have certainly more than doubled your money.
[00:00:46]  Now, a lot of you are probably thinking, is it too late?
[00:00:48]  Have I missed the boat?
[00:00:49]  Well, I can't definitively answer that question.
[00:00:52]  Nobody can.
[00:00:53]  But if I had to guess, I would say gold has got some way to go.
[00:00:58]  And yeah, sure, there's going to be corrections, but you really ought to be owning physical gold for lots and lots.
[00:01:03]  Not paper gold, obviously.
[00:01:05]  You should be owning physical gold.
[00:01:07]  Now, there are two ways of owning gold.
[00:01:09]  Either you can actually own it, keep it in a vault or in your own home.
[00:01:15]  There are risks, obviously, with keeping it in your own home.
[00:01:17]  You know, what if burglars come, whatever.
[00:01:19]  The problem with keeping it in a vault is that you then get paid a storage fee.
[00:01:25]  But there is another way of owning physical gold and actually getting paid interest on it unusually.
[00:01:32]  And that is with a company that I've recommended before and I use them myself.
[00:01:37]  They're called monetary metals.
[00:01:40]  Monetary metals lets you earn a yield on your gold paid in gold.
[00:01:44]  Right now, you can earn up to 4% annual yield paid in physical gold ounces, not dollars or pounds.
[00:01:52]  Instead of just storing gold and paying vault fees, your gold actually earns more gold over time.
[00:01:58]  Monetary metals connects gold owners with real productive businesses like refiners or jewelers that lease the gold.
[00:02:06]  That's how they can pay interest, by the way.
[00:02:08]  So they lease the gold and they pay yields back in gold.
[00:02:12]  This is a way to compound your wealth in ounces of gold.
[00:02:16]  There are no storage or insurance fees charged while your metal is earning yield.
[00:02:20]  You can open an account with 10 ounces of gold and start earning yield right away.
[00:02:26]  You stay in control, deploy how much of your gold you want into lease opportunities.
[00:02:31]  In today's inflationary environment, saving in paper currency means losing purchasing power.
[00:02:36]  Earning in gold means growing your real wealth.
[00:02:39]  Go to the link in the description below or go to monetary, that's m-o-n-e-t-a-r-y-metals.com forward slash dellingpoll forward slash to learn more about how to participate and start earning a return on honest money again with monetary metals.

=== Lacking Conviction (07:52) ===

[00:03:01]  Welcome back to the Delling Pod, Neil Oliver.
[00:03:06]  You were about to start a conversation.
[00:03:10]  And I stopped you because I wanted to have this on air about when it was we last at a we did the podcast live event.
[00:03:18]  I think it might have been.
[00:03:21]  I mean, obviously I should have researched this.
[00:03:23]  I think it might have been in 2022.
[00:03:29]  Gosh.
[00:03:30]  Well, now that I think about it, it would be that it was the live event in a venue in London that was most recent rather than anything we've done remotely like this.
[00:03:40]  But it's certainly years since we did this.
[00:03:44]  And it's one of the things I wanted to talk about was really to catch up with you on where you are now.
[00:03:51]  Because I remember I was at the time, even though I was a newbie to this crazy world, I was further down the rabbit hole than you at that time.
[00:04:04]  And I was trying to tease you on stage.
[00:04:08]  I mean, not to annoy you, but I was trying to take you further than perhaps you were ready for at that stage.
[00:04:16]  You asked me where I am now.
[00:04:18]  I'm completely open-minded.
[00:04:21]  One of my symptoms is lack of certainty.
[00:04:26]  Yeah.
[00:04:27]  Full stop.
[00:04:29]  And there's almost nothing that I would dismiss out of hand.
[00:04:36]  I'm very much in a state of mind where I'm interested and enthusiastically listening to anything anyone has to say.
[00:04:46]  And I don't trouble myself too much with proving and disproving anything.
[00:04:52]  If you want to get pedantic about it, it's very hard.
[00:04:55]  I mean, ultimately, you're taking whatever gravity or as a non-scientist and non-specialist like myself, I mean, I can't, I have to trust some of what I'm told because I don't have the means available to go after evidence in an absolute sense.
[00:05:15]  And so when it comes to what were once bracketed, well, which are still bracketed as conspiracy theories and content that I would have, until very recently, have dismissed as hokem, I don't have much in that file now, if anything.
[00:05:30]  It's all open now.
[00:05:31]  But you trust the guy in the wig, in the long wig, who's on gravity, Newton.
[00:05:37]  Not necessarily, no.
[00:05:39]  I mean, I'm just, there are things that I know are there.
[00:05:41]  There's an effect that I feel.
[00:05:42]  There are phenomenon that I sense.
[00:05:44]  Yeah.
[00:05:45]  You know, phenomena that I sense.
[00:05:46]  But I'm not big on belief, but I'm strong on faith.
[00:05:52]  I don't mean a religious faith, but as the W. B. Yeats poem has it, you know, the best lack all conviction while the worst are filled with passionate intensity.
[00:06:06]  I'm a bit there.
[00:06:08]  I lack conviction because I've been so rattled over the last few years that I don't want.
[00:06:13]  It's like going from, it'd be like getting divorced, having found out that your spouse had been serially unfaithful and then just immediately getting married again.
[00:06:21]  I'm wary.
[00:06:23]  Once bitten.
[00:06:25]  Yeah.
[00:06:26]  Well, funnily enough, I was having that conversation with another friend recently, another sort of fellow rabbit holers, and we were talking about how you can tell whether somebody is authentic or not in our realm, in our sphere.
[00:06:46]  Not that I believe in spheres.
[00:06:50]  And or globes anyway.
[00:06:53]  And he said that one of the things that one of the hallmarks of the true truth seeker is permanent skepticism and a lack of dogmatism.
[00:07:08]  I think dogmatism is usually a tell that somebody is either compromised or at least that they are they haven't learned the lesson yet.
[00:07:18]  Yeah, I mean, dogma, I'm not, I do not adhere to dogma.
[00:07:21]  Even skepticism, I find that slightly pejorative.
[00:07:27]  It has slightly negative overtones about it.
[00:07:33]  I know it needn't, but when someone says, insists to me that the following is true, I just try not even to be sceptical.
[00:07:45]  I just listen to them and let it lie as a possibility.
[00:07:49]  I've just become completely open-minded.
[00:07:52]  Sure, but you must have started heading towards a grand.
[00:07:59]  It's a dangerous way to start a sentence, James.
[00:08:02]  I must.
[00:08:03]  Must I?
[00:08:04]  No, you don't have to.
[00:08:06]  But I'd be surprised if you didn't.
[00:08:08]  I'd think there was something slightly odd about you.
[00:08:14]  Inasmuch as surely the curiosity that has led you to your position now is saying to you, well, the truth exists.
[00:08:27]  Don't you kind of want to find out what the truth is?
[00:08:30]  Yes, I believe that there is truth.
[00:08:36]  But I think it's hard to find.
[00:08:40]  I don't mean that.
[00:08:41]  I just I'm so much more open-minded now than I was.
[00:08:46]  And I take almost nothing as read.
[00:08:51]  I'm prepared to believe in alternative.
[00:08:54]  However many alternative explanations I hear for a phenomenon or a sequence of events, I'm prepared to listen to them, but I don't come down hard with certainty on anything.
[00:09:09]  Yeah.
[00:09:10]  I'm just, like I say, I'm just rattled.
[00:09:13]  That's where I am.
[00:09:14]  You said, where are you now?
[00:09:15]  I'm rattled.
[00:09:16]  Yeah.
[00:09:18]  And I don't mind.
[00:09:20]  I don't mind.
[00:09:21]  I feel quite a load off my shoulders, I suppose.
[00:09:28]  One of the things I did, I mean, we met because when we all started going down the rabbit hole together, round about the time of the COVID madness, we were sort of flailing around for people that we could trust with whom he had something in common that would give us an insight into what was going on.
[00:09:55]  And there was this weird, mostly our friends and families didn't follow us down the rabbit hole and thought we were nutcases.
[00:10:07]  And we found ourselves in this in this strange room full of all these people that we never met before and turned out to have at least one big thing in common with us, which was that we'd all been on this, we'd all gone down the chute at the circus, at the fun fair, and we didn't know why.
[00:10:32]  And one thing I noticed was that from each profession, one person was given to us to be a well, not a skeptic, but to have woken up.
[00:10:46]  So from tennis, oh, actually, I don't know about tennis because you had sort of patients.
[00:10:52]  Novak Djokovic.

=== Blocked From Each Profession (02:40) ===

[00:10:53]  Okay.
[00:10:53]  Novak Djokovic.
[00:10:55]  But I'm not sure about them.
[00:10:56]  But definitely from the realm of football, you had, what's his face?
[00:11:04]  My brain's called blank.
[00:11:05]  Which realm?
[00:11:07]  Football.
[00:11:08]  Matt Letitier.
[00:11:10]  You had Matt Letitier, who, I mean, I didn't know anything about, I don't know anything about football, but I understand from people who know about football that Matt Letitier was really good.
[00:11:18]  He wasn't just a kind of a semi-shit player that we now know of down the rabbit hole because he's down the rabbit hole.
[00:11:25]  He was really, really good.
[00:11:27]  So and then where else do we have?
[00:11:29]  Well, we had me from the mainstream media.
[00:11:32]  Think anyone else really from the well, certainly not from the um we might have some from the tabloid end, but we didn't have anyone from the kind of spectatory telegraphy end, so I was I was that person, and so on and on.
[00:11:44]  It went.
[00:11:44]  We had from the realm of pharma, we had Mike Eden, and there was you, and you what's my realm?
[00:11:52]  Well, you were the guy from the from the BBC kind of lifestyle lifestyle, okay.
[00:11:58]  Well, I call it light documentary, yeah, okay.
[00:12:02]  So you were the token guy from the light documentary thing, and you must have, I mean, like you must look around now and pinch yourself.
[00:12:10]  Look at all these light documentary characters who used to be your fellow travelers and your comrades, and now I bet do they even talk to you?
[00:12:22]  Some of them have blocked me, yeah.
[00:12:25]  I mean, I find that I was having this conversation, I periodically have this conversation with whatever my wife and other people.
[00:12:32]  The act of blocking, for those unfamiliar with it, it's an option on X, previously known as Twitter, where you can prevent someone from seeing anything you put up on that platform.
[00:12:44]  And it's called blocking, but it's a very personal attack, really, because the only person that knows about the block is the blockee and the blocker.
[00:12:58]  It's not like you can look someone up and see who blocks them or you can't see who a person has blocked unless they tell you.
[00:13:08]  You know, so the act of someone blocking someone else is a very direct attack, mano-a-mano.
[00:13:14]  It's just, I want you to know that I, you know, I'm shutting you out.
[00:13:20]  But yes, I mean, people that I previously worked with, you definitely have blocked me, which I find without exceptions, people that I wasn't following anyway.
[00:13:32]  It's very funny.

=== Accompanied By A Member (15:29) ===

[00:13:34]  But yes, that's been a big thing for me that I, at the time, when it all started to happen for me six years ago, I genuinely waited and assumed that some of the silverbacks would step forth and do what had to be done,
[00:13:54]  especially people who had over the years, if not decades, cultivated a reputation as a sort of a maverick, a bit of a rebel, you know, a bit sweary, a bit ready to get up in the face of the man.
[00:14:08]  There were people for whom that was part of their shtick.
[00:14:13]  Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:14:15]  I just, yeah, but not, I mean, I'm not singling him out, but yeah, he would be a perfect example.
[00:14:22]  But, and then, you know, obviously now he's, he's advertising, I can't believe it's not butter.
[00:14:27]  And I'm, you know, like the rest of us, I'm like the rest of us out there as, you know, as a raving anti-semite, whatever, anti-vaxxer, all the rest of it.
[00:14:39]  And I, but at the time, I thought these people will step forward, people with clout, people with reputations that give them the clout to say, hold on a minute, this is out of hand, this is out of order.
[00:14:50]  We cannot, as a civilization, go down these roads.
[00:14:54]  And they didn't.
[00:14:56]  And I've used the analogy before.
[00:14:57]  For me, it was a bit like, you know, the classic airplane disaster movie where the pilot's dead and the co-pilot's dead and the stewardesses are, you know, are incapacitated.
[00:15:07]  And some, you know, you know, lug from the cabin, from coach has to come forward and take control of the plane because and be, you know, because there's nobody else.
[00:15:18]  I couldn't.
[00:15:19]  And I still can't believe that after all this time, like you say, the people that were my fellow travelers, many of them, far more, you know, far, far bigger names than me, still are, are still there.
[00:15:33]  You know, and increasingly I notice that, you know, the faces on television look, you know, they so remind me of Death Becomes.
[00:15:41]  You know, these increasingly desiccated, superannuated people that are still doing variations on the theme that they were doing all those years ago.
[00:15:51]  And I find it tragic.
[00:15:54]  I think we're surrounded.
[00:15:55]  The people that so many in Hollywood, in politics, in various professions, all these people, and I find them almost without exception, tragic, you know, jokes.
[00:16:12]  Except, I mean, I share your feelings about the disappointment, let's say, about the failure of people in our realm who should have done what we did and didn't.
[00:16:30]  But at the same time, you must have come across the theory that nobody in the realm of entertainment achieves any level of prominence without having pre-sold their soul, that it's part of the deal.
[00:16:55]  Yes, I'm certainly aware of that.
[00:16:58]  I'm certainly aware that there are deals struck with the devil, so to speak.
[00:17:06]  I mean, I also will acknowledge openly that I'm still routinely, daily dismissed as controlled opposition myself, because there is a purity test out there that I don't think anyone can pass.
[00:17:19]  You know, everyone is somebody's shill.
[00:17:22]  Everyone is somebody's, you know, soulless grifter.
[00:17:26]  You know, so I ignore, I suppose, because you just have to a certain amount on a on a constant basis of, yeah, yeah, he sold out to whoever.
[00:17:37]  I mean, you can't, you can't, it's a like I say, it's a purity test that's unpassable.
[00:17:46]  I agree for a certain because I mean, after all, we're all to a greater or lesser extent batshit, crazy, tinful hat loons.
[00:17:57]  So, inevitably, in that realm, you're going to get the kind of people who react who treat you in the way that they do.
[00:18:07]  I get this as well.
[00:18:09]  There is a certain I'd say we're probably talking about less than 1%.
[00:18:14]  We may be talking about even 0.01% of the awake people out there.
[00:18:24]  And those people think Dellingpole, Oxford, mainstream media, friends of former friends of prime ministers, MI5 at the very least, probably, possibly lower-tier Illuminati.
[00:18:43]  And they will never think otherwise.
[00:18:45]  I've even had people do analyses of my face shape, and they've decided that I'm actually female or something.
[00:18:56]  Yeah.
[00:18:57]  So interesting.
[00:18:59]  But I've seen that happening with you as well.
[00:19:03]  The purity testing thing going on.
[00:19:06]  That anyone who achieved any prominence in the BBC, and you did, I mean, you were a name.
[00:19:12]  People can still write to you, can't they?
[00:19:14]  And just put middle ranking.
[00:19:20]  You know, I was never premiership.
[00:19:23]  I don't watch football either, but I know what the premiership is.
[00:19:28]  I was a middle manager.
[00:19:31]  You know, and I never, you know, I was never on contract.
[00:19:39]  I was never employed directly by anyone.
[00:19:41]  I was always self-employed, and I just used to be hanging about waiting on the phone to ring in the classic way, you know, from my agent to say, oh, such and such a production looks like it's going ahead, and you're the named presenter that they're prepared to entertain for it.
[00:19:58]  You know, my agent dropped me as well.
[00:20:02]  Do you think it was because you've got that kind of attractive regional accent?
[00:20:07]  So that must have been part of the Peel.
[00:20:09]  He's not, he's not.
[00:20:10]  He hasn't gotten it.
[00:20:12]  I used to think before this happened, James.
[00:20:16]  And I'm not.
[00:20:17]  It's not.
[00:20:18]  This is not a.
[00:20:19]  I'm not mining for pity here at all because I don't want, I don't feel the need.
[00:20:25]  But way before, I mean, right from the beginning of being on television, I didn't fit within the establishment.
[00:20:33]  I mean, I became, like I say, a lower ranking.
[00:20:37]  I kind of had a always temporary pass.
[00:20:42]  You know, I never had my own set of keys.
[00:20:46]  I was always just had to be accompanied by a member to get in.
[00:20:51]  But I never fitted because, and you say I had a regional accent.
[00:20:55]  You know, I was never, you know, you said yourself that you're Oxford and whatever.
[00:21:01]  I was, I am council house, state school, Scottish, you know, no letters after my name apart from an, you know, an MA from Glasgow uni a thousand years ago, not an expert, not, not a lecturer, no academic credentials.
[00:21:22]  And long before I got exiled to the purder, the perdition that I've been put in by the, by the intelligentsia now, I never fitted anyway.
[00:21:32]  I was, I did get, I mean, I had as many projects get binned.
[00:21:36]  And I mean, I was on the same, you know, daily rate from the BBC in 2016 or something when I did my last gig for them, as I had been on when I did my very first gig for them all those years before.
[00:21:49]  You know, I was just on a day rate that never changed.
[00:21:53]  I was in, but not in.
[00:21:58]  I was just hovering on the fringes and always ready to be evicted.
[00:22:05]  Anyway, I think I failed the test anyway long before I came out as a, you know, a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist granny killer.
[00:22:16]  I mean, I was already not one of us.
[00:22:19]  Nick be here.
[00:22:21]  But even though you were not one of them, really, you at least were on the inside for a while.
[00:22:30]  And have you ever wondered?
[00:22:31]  Like I say, accompanied by a member.
[00:22:34]  I can't get through doors on my own.
[00:22:36]  Right.
[00:22:38]  But you saw things when you're accompanied by a member.
[00:22:40]  do see things when you're accompanied by a member and i'm just wondering because i'm i'm often looking back on my i mean i was like what 25 years 30 years in the mainstream media at sort of you know successful columnist level um And I never noticed at the time that there was anything rum about the industry that I was operating in.
[00:23:09]  You know, if somebody had said to me at the time, you do realize that you're producing propaganda for this predator class, which Wants to turn you and people like you into slaves or to kill you, have no respect for you.
[00:23:28]  They hate you.
[00:23:29]  They lie to you.
[00:23:30]  You're part of a lie machine.
[00:23:32]  People told me that at the time, I'd have gone, you're just like a nutcase conspiracy, spirit weirdo.
[00:23:38]  And now I'm looking back, thinking about what did I miss?
[00:23:43]  Was I maybe given clues at the time and stuff?
[00:23:46]  Anyway, I was wondering whether you ever went through this process and thought back.
[00:23:51]  Yeah, I never suspected anything either.
[00:23:54]  I mean, I didn't, I was oblivious.
[00:23:57]  I've said this till I was blue in the face.
[00:23:58]  I didn't catch on right away either.
[00:24:00]  You know, I was panicked into wanting my kids out of school and back in the house because I thought the black death was coming.
[00:24:07]  I mean, I wasn't first out of the traps by any stretch of the imagination.
[00:24:14]  But at the time I was doing it, no, it never, it never occurred to me because I was, you know, I was preoccupied with what I was doing.
[00:24:20]  And as a lot of self-employed people are, I was always just looking for the next gig.
[00:24:25]  And I was sort of desperate enough for finances all the time that I wasn't bothering to second guess whether I thought something was, you know, for the greater good of the species.
[00:24:39]  Far less given much houseroom to the notion that I was pushing propaganda, which you know, I now see that I was a, you know, I was a willing, a willing dupe or whatever.
[00:24:53]  I didn't, I just didn't.
[00:24:54]  I always have said over and over, I thought that they were out there really with our best interests at heart.
[00:25:01]  I didn't, it never occurred to me that they might be trying to kill me or sterilize my children.
[00:25:07]  It never occurred to me.
[00:25:09]  That I think that's why, in a way, you and I have a useful role to play in that we can exp because there's a lot of people listening to this who are going to be getting who are getting well.
[00:25:28]  Yeah, loads.
[00:25:30]  Neil, you have no idea how big I am.
[00:25:34]  Actually, you've no idea how big I would be if I weren't so heavily suppressed.
[00:25:40]  I think that's certainly true.
[00:25:41]  I think I'd do quite well.
[00:25:43]  You probably do all right too, but we'll never get there because we're suppressed.
[00:25:47]  But the thing I'm often trying to explain to people, I was doing this guy's podcast the other day, and he was full of hatred, hatred for Douglas Murray.
[00:26:01]  And he wanted to tell me how much he hated Douglas Murray.
[00:26:04]  And he wanted to tell me how horrible Toby Young was.
[00:26:07]  He was really angry about Toby Young.
[00:26:10]  Do you come across Toby Young?
[00:26:13]  I do.
[00:26:14]  I used to, I think I crossed these.
[00:26:16]  I did.
[00:26:17]  I did.
[00:26:17]  Let me think.
[00:26:19]  I was on the Mark Stein show.
[00:26:23]  Yeah.
[00:26:24]  Yeah.
[00:26:26]  When he, indeed, when he was with GB News, in that kind of self-cannibalizing thing, we used to be each other's guests to some extent.
[00:26:37]  And I was a guest on Mark's show when he was still with the show.
[00:26:43]  And the other, or at least one of the other guests on the same night was Toby Young.
[00:26:47]  And Mark took us both out to dinner after.
[00:26:51]  So I spent a very pleasant couple of hours in their company, chatted to Toby.
[00:26:58]  And apart from that, and then when I did get, well, when I was having some of my early troubles with getting cancelled and accused of this, that, and the other, you know, I was, I had joined the, what's that? Free speech union.
[00:27:11]  Free speech union.
[00:27:12]  And so I was able to cash in my chips and get help.
[00:27:17]  And I have to say, Toby was extremely helpful and was a sympathetic ear.
[00:27:24]  Yes, exactly.
[00:27:26]  So you make my point for me.
[00:27:28]  And I was trying to explain to this angry man.
[00:27:32]  Look, if you think that this world is all about people consciously selling their souls and consciously lying to their audiences and being deliberately, willfully evil, you misunderstand the mechanism by which these people consolidate their power and rule over us.
[00:28:01]  Toby Young is a good example of this because, I mean, we're university contemporaries and we used to do a podcast together and we were mates.
[00:28:10]  I mean, you know, we probably meet maybe once a year, possibly, by accident and have a drink and a chat.
[00:28:18]  And Toby Young is even though I think he is basically shilling for Israel, for example, and shilling for all manner of causes, which I think are morally suspect.
[00:28:35]  I don't think Toby is even aware of this.
[00:28:37]  I just think he's just a guy trying to make a buck, trying to be, he likes being in the House of Lords.
[00:28:44]  He likes being able to afford expensive wine, as he's written about in The Spectator.
[00:28:48]  He thinks Israel is good because it's kind of like a bastion of Western civilization in the Middle East.
[00:28:58]  And the Israelis are just like us, except they're Jewish and so on.

=== Perpetuating Misunderstandings (05:59) ===

[00:29:04]  He's never got beyond that stage.
[00:29:06]  Well, you'll have seen, I'm sure, well, either you have or you haven't, that clip of Noam Chomsky.
[00:29:12]  Now, open brackets, We've all had the opportunity to revisit our opinions about Noam Chomsky, close brackets.
[00:29:19]  But nonetheless, he skewered Andrew Marr very effectively.
[00:29:24]  You did.
[00:29:25]  I probably want to say that.
[00:29:29]  You know, where he's suggesting that, well, it's the propaganda machine.
[00:29:33]  And Andrew Maher bristles and says, well, I don't have anyone telling me what to say.
[00:29:41]  And Noam Chomsky, in that kind of gotcha moment, says, well, yes, but you wouldn't be sitting where you are unless you had been filtered through the system and you were saying what you see anyway without any need for coercion on our part because the bigger project has worked on you and you now without us having to put your arm up your back or threaten your children, you're doing it because you believe it.
[00:30:03]  That's why you occupy the seat that you do, Andrew.
[00:30:06]  And, you know, there's a momentary, you know, you can see it on Andrew Maher's face where he certainly seems to get Noam Chomsky's point.
[00:30:17]  Yeah.
[00:30:19]  Yeah, it does add an extra layer of nuance to it, doesn't it?
[00:30:23]  The fact that we know that Chomsky was off on regular drawings to Epstein Island.
[00:30:30]  Nevertheless, just because you're an Epstein obituary doesn't mean to say that you can't occasionally make sensible points about how even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.
[00:30:41]  Yeah.
[00:30:42]  But I mean, so you said you're still not.
[00:30:48]  I kind of imagine you might have become a Christian by now, just because a lot of us have.
[00:30:56]  That's a subject in which I have boundless, limitless interest, but I'm not, if it's an official religion, it's not for me.
[00:31:07]  I believe, I think the Christianity as it's offered, whether it be from Rome or whether it be the Reformed Church, whether it be Church of Scotland, whether it be whatever, I think Christianity is the perpetuation of the Roman Imperium.
[00:31:25]  You know, the one thing went, you know, went into the, into the shadows and the other thing emerged into the light.
[00:31:33]  You know, so Christianity was the perpetuation of the Roman Imperium.
[00:31:37]  But that's there's nothing, but all, I think all the organized religions, be it Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam or Judaism or Seventh-day Adventists or Scientologists, Mormons, whatever, Methodists, I think these are all just in that area.
[00:31:55]  I mean, in that terrain, I'm, you know, I'm firmly of the David Icke constituency where he says it's all just a trap.
[00:32:05]  But I don't, so I'm not, so I have faith.
[00:32:09]  I have faith and I do as much as I can in terms of the reading that I do and the path that I follow.
[00:32:16]  I know there's truth out there.
[00:32:20]  And as far as it goes, I think the most, well, possibly the most profound lines in the Bible are the opening of John's Gospel.
[00:32:37]  The light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not, which I interpret as meaning whenever the truth appears as a kindled flame, the darkness seeks to smother it.
[00:32:50]  And I think the truth as manifest in what I would regard, let's say, as the actual Jesus message has been utterly traduced over the last 2,000 years to the point where it's just become another noose to put around people's necks.
[00:33:06]  But that does not in any way impugn what Jesus said.
[00:33:11]  It's just that it's very hard to find out what he did say.
[00:33:14]  I suppose when I said whether you become a Christian or not, I wasn't necessarily saying I had expected Neil to become Orthodox or Catholic or Baptist or whatever.
[00:33:31]  I possibly jumped down your throat a bit there, James.
[00:33:34]  Well, no, not particularly.
[00:33:37]  Actually, I found it a sort of an unhelpful digression because it stopped me or delayed me from reaching the point I was trying to make.
[00:33:50]  By the way, do you believe Jesus was the son of God or not?
[00:33:59]  Well, only in as much as, from what I gather, he only said that we all are.
[00:34:06]  Ah, okay.
[00:34:07]  So you know, Psalm 82 and all of that, you're all sons and daughters of the Most High.
[00:34:12]  I mean, I think that's what I mean about what he actually said is hard to discern in amongst the redacted and rewritten and transliterated and interpolated pages that we see bound within the edifice called the Holy Bible.
[00:34:28]  But I mean, I don't think that even, I don't think, you know, it's almost as, it's a, it's a difficult question to answer because I don't think it's a question that he ever asked himself.
[00:34:42]  Right.
[00:34:43]  He may or may not have been, but he didn't, he didn't, as far as I am concerned, explicitly make a great distinction between himself and everybody else.
[00:34:53]  Right.
[00:34:53]  No, I wasn't really trying to put you on the spot.
[00:34:55]  I was just trying to see, trying to place you on the kind of on the spectrum.

=== How to Explain Existential Problems (02:41) ===

[00:35:03]  And I've said that.
[00:35:04]  I believe in the transcendent absolute.
[00:35:08]  I believe in sunyata for the you know for the Buddhists.
[00:35:14]  And I don't think there's any distinction between that and the and the and the you know the apophatic message that you know pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite had to offer.
[00:35:26]  I don't know what apophatic means.
[00:35:29]  What is that?
[00:35:30]  Well, it's it's an acceptance that there's absolutely nothing that we can say or know about the divine because it doesn't, there's no words you can use.
[00:35:42]  It's ineffable.
[00:35:44]  So there's the via global warming is a massive con.
[00:35:52]  There was no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
[00:36:04]  It's a non-existent problem.
[00:36:05]  But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
[00:36:11]  Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
[00:36:33]  It's a shocking story.
[00:36:35]  I wrote it, as I say, in 2011 actually, the first edition came out.
[00:36:41]  And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
[00:36:44]  The era when the people behind the climate change scam got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.
[00:36:59]  So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us.
[00:37:07]  We've got to act now.
[00:37:09]  I rumbled their scam.
[00:37:12]  I then asked the question, okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
[00:37:18]  It's a good story.
[00:37:20]  I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
[00:37:34]  I think it still stands out.
[00:37:35]  I think it's a good read.
[00:37:37]  Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
[00:37:39]  You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.

=== Intellectual Rabbit Hole (03:04) ===

[00:37:45]  You'll probably find that way.
[00:37:46]  Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
[00:37:50]  And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster.
[00:38:02]  We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother God.
[00:38:05]  There we go.
[00:38:06]  It's a scam.
[00:38:12]  Right.
[00:38:13]  He may or may not have been, but he didn't, as far as I am concerned, explicitly make a great distinction between himself and everybody else.
[00:38:23]  Right.
[00:38:24]  Now, I wasn't really trying to put you on the spot.
[00:38:26]  I was just trying to see, trying to place you on the kind of on the spectrum.
[00:38:34]  And I've said that.
[00:38:35]  I believe in the transcendent absolute.
[00:38:39]  I believe in sunyata for the you know for the Buddhists.
[00:38:44]  And I don't think there's any distinction between that and the and the and the.
[00:38:48]  You know the, the apophatic message that you know, Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite had to offer.
[00:38:57]  I don't know what apophatic means.
[00:39:00]  Well it yeah um it's it's, it's an acceptance that there's absolutely nothing that we can say or know about the divine, because it it doesn't, there's no words you can use, it's ineffable, right.
[00:39:14]  So there's, there's the, the via negativa, and and there's the, the negative way and the positive way.
[00:39:20]  There's cataphatic, is the alternative to apophatic, cataphatic theology as laid out, is the things you can say about god.
[00:39:28]  He is omniscient, he is, you know, but the apophatic line says you can't say anything about god.
[00:39:36]  It's not possible.
[00:39:37]  Words do not describe and we lack the comprehension to to, to know anything about god.
[00:39:45]  And Dionysia, the pseudo Areopagite, Pseudo-dionysius the Areopagite, put all that in some, in some books that were written probably in the five or six hundreds and then surfaced in Europe in the, the sort of high medieval period, and they have they, you know, they affected the thinking of people like I don't know, you know um um um, Albertus Magnus and Mesther, Eckhart and Thomas Aquinas and so on, and these people.
[00:40:15]  But so I, I think i'm, i'm more inclined towards, and Sunyata is the same.
[00:40:20]  I mean, that's that that Buddhist idea that there isn't anything you can say?
[00:40:25]  You just Augustine Of Hippo said, you know.
[00:40:30]  Someone said to him, what do you understand about time?
[00:40:34]  And Augustine said, um, I know, but when you ask me, I don't, which is a a kind of an expression of the apophat, apophatic mindset.

=== Intellectual Rabbit Holes (04:30) ===

[00:40:49]  right Well, there's some further reading I've got to do.
[00:40:56]  Yet another kind of rabbit hole, intellectual rabbit hole I've got to explore.
[00:41:01]  So the only reason I was asking you about the question is because a lot of people who enter the conspiracy realm, their questions increasingly boil down to, okay, if all this terrible stuff is going on in the world, why are they doing it and who are they?
[00:41:29]  Or who are they?
[00:41:31]  Who is doing this stuff and why?
[00:41:33]  And people come up with various theories, but a lot of us, me definitely, come to the conclusion that the bad guys are either descendants of or yes, the descendants of fallen angels, and that their boss is Lucifer stroke Satan.
[00:42:00]  They seem to be a sort of similar entity with perhaps different facets of their personality.
[00:42:07]  Sort of Lucifer is more about sort of the light and the intellect and kind of Satan is more about darkness and other stuff.
[00:42:18]  But anyway, if you accept that, as I certainly do, that Satan is the CEO on earth by God's permission, you kind of want to understand how the company operates.
[00:42:35]  And it seems to me that the company operates on a need-to-know basis.
[00:42:42]  So clearly, Satan, he knows what's going on, and so do his lieutenants.
[00:42:47]  I mean, they're just like sitting around in their boardrooms.
[00:42:51]  They're going to the Bilderberg group and stuff like that.
[00:42:54]  They're in no doubt that their job is to poison, poison, enslave, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:43:05]  All the things they do.
[00:43:06]  But then you go further down, down the pyramid, and people do the bad stuff that they do because they think stuff like, well, I want to make my wife happy.
[00:43:22]  I want a better life for my children.
[00:43:25]  It's how the game works.
[00:43:26]  Everyone else is doing it.
[00:43:28]  It's just what you've got to do to get on.
[00:43:31]  At that level, people aren't saying, yeah, well, of course, I love doing evil because I'm wicked and I've sold my.
[00:43:40]  It doesn't work like that.
[00:43:42]  And I think the nature of evil is misunderstood by a lot of people on our side of the argument.
[00:43:49]  They think that they point at Toby or whoever or Netanyahu and they go, I hate these people because they are baddies and it's not as simple as that.
[00:44:03]  I mean, they are baddies, de facto, but they're not necessarily aware of, well, I mean, Netanyahu probably is, but people like most people aren't.
[00:44:15]  Don't you think it's a bit, we already touched on some of that, the explanation for that, when the thing about Andrew Marr and being, you know, being obscured by Noam Chomsky.
[00:44:27]  He thinks he's being Andrew Marr.
[00:44:30]  Just to use, you know, he believes that he's worked the things out for himself and that he is a critical thinker maybe and that he's drawn his conclusion.
[00:44:38]  But as Noam Chomsky said, well, no, but you've been selected.
[00:44:42]  You just don't know you've been selected, but they're quite happy for you to sit in that chair because you will, without prompting, say the things that we want said.
[00:44:49]  And so I think in the kind of people you're talking about, the kind of middle management factotum figures that are doing the things that are bad for us, they're not, they probably think they're just doing, like you say, that they're satisfying the requirements of their annual performance review, that they're looking to get a bonus this year.

=== Innocent Selection? (15:23) ===

[00:45:20]  And they think anyway that what they're doing is broadly okay, but they are certainly not in any way privy to the details of what's really going on.
[00:45:30]  And if you go all the way back to the sort of Adam Wieshaupt, the Illuminati, the papers that were whatever came to light in Bavaria in 1786, two or three years ago.
[00:45:43]  When the guy was struck by lightning.
[00:45:45]  Yeah.
[00:45:45]  You know, and that, that seemed, and that seemed to, well, it's all, it's all about, you know, it's all about, you do wonder about why these things come to light when they do.
[00:45:56]  is it organic and spontaneous or is it you know it's like that you know it's like the the man with no name you know the World War II legend of the false plans for D-Day you know that were put on a the guy I found washed up on a beach yeah Yeah, but it gave, and it gave, it sold the Germans the wrong idea ahead of D-Day and so on.
[00:46:17]  You don't know why things come to light when they do.
[00:46:20]  But what I was going to say was the strategy as laid out by Adam Weishaupt, whoever he was and whoever his ultimate bosses were, if he wasn't the ultimate boss, was that it was a net.
[00:46:32]  It was a net of conspiracy.
[00:46:34]  And each person in the net was only aware of a handful of other people.
[00:46:41]  And they knew that those people were watching them and reporting on their behavior in the same way that they were expected to watch the handful of people around that they were and they all reported on each other.
[00:46:51]  You know, that kind of, you know, who guards the guards kind of, and so, and according to the V's Hop papers, it was all about these people were just functionaries.
[00:47:02]  They didn't, they were never made privy to the big plan, and they were doing certain things.
[00:47:07]  And it spread into Freemasonry and it co-opted in a sort of a, you know, in a kind of a metastasizing cancer way into the Freemasonry, and it took over that because it was structured in much the same way.
[00:47:21]  I mean, your average Freemason attending the lodge every month or whatever his, you know, is utterly unaware of anything other than what you're made aware of.
[00:47:31]  Like you say, that's a long, a long ramble, but I'm basically agreeing with you and saying that these people that would get invited to look at Boris, be it Boris Johnson or Benjamin Netanyahu or anything, they're doing what they're doing.
[00:47:44]  And I think at some level, they think that, you know, it's what they're on earth to do, but that they're not necessarily privy to the ultimate agenda.
[00:47:58]  But so this is where it gets interesting.
[00:48:01]  Clearly on the sort of grunt level, on Toby Young level, they don't know.
[00:48:08]  And you talk about being kind of what was the phrase you used to describe your position at the BBC?
[00:48:12]  Sort of middle tier.
[00:48:13]  You were the Premier League.
[00:48:16]  Second division at best.
[00:48:18]  But when you get to surely Gary Lineker, David Attenborough level at the BBC, or Jimmy Saville level, let's say, to be naughty.
[00:48:30]  What an unlikely triumvirate.
[00:48:33]  Actually, yeah.
[00:48:36]  It would be very tough to decide who'd be first out of the balloon.
[00:48:39]  Yeah.
[00:48:39]  Jimmy Saville, Gary Lineker, and who was your other one?
[00:48:42]  David Attenborough.
[00:48:43]  Yeah, walk into a bar.
[00:48:45]  I mean, it's like the start of the unlikely.
[00:48:48]  Yeah, But the BBC, I mean, I shared your naivety about the BBC, as I demonstrated by agreeing to have a BBC Horizon crew round to my house, and they completely did me over.
[00:49:10]  Did they?
[00:49:11]  I don't know anything about that.
[00:49:12]  Awful, absolutely awful.
[00:49:14]  A guy called See, I was so, so naive, so innocent.
[00:49:20]  People think if you were this would have been about 2012, 2010.
[00:49:35]  Oh, goodness me.
[00:49:36]  You were just a callo boy then.
[00:49:39]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:49:40]  I was so innocent.
[00:49:41]  I was so innocent.
[00:49:42]  I thought the BBC was just kind of misguided rather than malign, malign by design, which I now know it to be.
[00:49:51]  And I mean, I wouldn't break bread at all with the BBC.
[00:49:55]  There was another incident.
[00:49:56]  I was very, very, I was very good natured about it because it was a bit like when the husband has an affair and the wife blames herself and forgives the husband.
[00:50:09]  It was a bit like that.
[00:50:11]  There was an occasion where Andrew Neal stitched me up on a sort of a late-night BBC politics programme.
[00:50:21]  And again, he was chairman of the spectator at the time.
[00:50:26]  And I wrote for the spectator.
[00:50:28]  I still write for the spectator.
[00:50:30]  So obviously it was important to me that I shouldn't fall out of his favor.
[00:50:37]  But I genuinely sort of thought at the time it was my fault.
[00:50:40]  But the other occasion was much worse, which was when Paul Nurse, who was the head of the Royal Society, a Nobel Prize-winning cancer specialist, I mean, all these things, which now I realize are signs that he was evil, at the time I thought were badges of distinction.
[00:51:02]  Royal Society, horribly compromised.
[00:51:04]  Cancer, a Rockefeller racket, big pharma death machine.
[00:51:11]  Nobel Prize only goes to Rongans.
[00:51:14]  And this guy had been chairman, president of Rockefeller University in New York.
[00:51:20]  I mean, he was absolutely 50 square miles of bad terrain.
[00:51:26]  He was awful.
[00:51:27]  And I let this vampire across my threshold for the BBC, Horizon, another, another, you know, and BBC science programming, another sign of evil.
[00:51:38]  I was so innocent.
[00:51:39]  I didn't know any of this.
[00:51:41]  Why am I telling you this?
[00:51:42]  I don't know.
[00:51:43]  I love it.
[00:51:44]  I used to trust the BBC.
[00:51:46]  I too was that naive.
[00:51:48]  And I now recognize that from the off, from the moment it was a twinkle, an evil twinkle in Lord Reed's size.
[00:51:55]  Yeah, I was in the, just, it was really funny.
[00:52:00]  You know, I've listed all these people.
[00:52:02]  I mean, not to you right here and now, but I have in the last few years regularly listed all the people that dropped me, you know, and all the associations.
[00:52:11]  Because when you're a lower, when you're a middle-ranking BBC presenter, you get invited to be patron of this ambassador for that, you know, charitable things.
[00:52:20]  And they all dropped me.
[00:52:21]  But not very late in the day, before it all started to happen to me, really, I was invited because you have to be to become a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, which is not quite as august as the Royal Society, but it's, you know, it's up there.
[00:52:39]  It's very old.
[00:52:40]  It's an 18th century thing, and I was invited to be it.
[00:52:44]  And you have to go through, you know, you have to go sort of be vetted by the members and said, one of these ridiculous members.
[00:52:50]  I didn't get hazed.
[00:52:51]  No, I don't remember waking up, you know, with my trousers on back to front or anything.
[00:52:55]  But no, and anyway, I was in, but I was no sooner in, I was in literally for less than a year, a matter of months.
[00:53:03]  And I was saying, but I don't know, it must have been, it was probably on GB News or something, a monologue I had delivered.
[00:53:11]  I don't know.
[00:53:11]  Don't ask me which one it was and what it was about because I don't know.
[00:53:14]  But I was on holiday with my family in Crete and I got an email from whatever the secretary of the Royal Society of Edinburgh saying the members are very upset with what you've said and they want you to publish an apology and retract what you said.
[00:53:29]  And I see, honestly, hand on my heart, I can't remember what it was.
[00:53:34]  I don't know what I said.
[00:53:36]  I've said so much.
[00:53:39]  And I immediately, in high chagrin, just replied and said, well, I'm out.
[00:53:46]  Not only am I not apologising, I'm out.
[00:53:48]  I don't want any.
[00:53:49]  If that's the Royal Society of Edinburgh, you can shove it in your puckered ring piece because it's not the kind of company I'd be prepared to keep now that I see what they're really about.
[00:54:01]  Yeah.
[00:54:02]  It was the only one in the whole list of people that sort of dropped me.
[00:54:05]  I kicked the Royal Society of Edinburgh into touch and told them they could shove it.
[00:54:11]  And that sort of weasel way they got rid of you, what the members?
[00:54:14]  Which members?
[00:54:15]  I mean, quite for all I know, it may have been just that one individual who was the secretary.
[00:54:20]  I mean, maybe something I said on a Saturday night, you know, upset him.
[00:54:25]  I have no idea.
[00:54:25]  But like I say, it was so trivial.
[00:54:27]  By that point, I had been castigated and you know, and you know, and scorned by so many that I don't even remember what it was I was supposed to have done to upset them.
[00:54:37]  It's like, oh, yeah, whatever.
[00:54:38]  Get lost.
[00:54:40]  So I was going to ask you about GB News because I feel on GB News, we've been sold a pup, inasmuch as at the beginning, it used to have, even used to have people like me on it.
[00:55:01]  And it sort of promoted itself as this kind of a genuine alternative to the mainstream.
[00:55:11]  And it's clear to me now that all this was just a strategy.
[00:55:16]  Its intention was always to get where it is now, which is essentially to be what sort of Farage is England, I suppose.
[00:55:28]  Farage is fake opposition England.
[00:55:32]  And it's not an opposition to anything.
[00:55:35]  It's completely part of the mainstream.
[00:55:39]  Which presumably is why they got rid of you.
[00:55:42]  Well, it haven't got rid of me at all.
[00:55:44]  I still record pieces that go on GB News online.
[00:55:48]  I'm not on the television channel anymore.
[00:55:52]  That's how they sideline you there.
[00:55:53]  I mean, you must.
[00:55:54]  But, you know, but my, honestly, again, I say this with no.
[00:55:59]  This is the truth.
[00:56:02]  It is what it is.
[00:56:04]  And I am, in the same way that I come on your this podcast here, I say yes to absolutely everyone.
[00:56:13]  I mean, I'm not always able to do every podcast.
[00:56:16]  I mean, I get invited on to scores and I only do some because there's only so many hours in a day.
[00:56:21]  And I don't bother.
[00:56:24]  I've long since stopped worrying because I want to be able to speak in as many contexts as I can.
[00:56:34]  I would walk into hell or whatever if I was going to get good numbers for what I was going to be invited to say.
[00:56:44]  Most of what I hear coming from, you know, that goes out on GB News, I don't agree with.
[00:56:48]  I don't agree with the line on this and that.
[00:56:51]  But I mean, I don't know how on board with everything that was on your newspaper.
[00:56:57]  What paper was it you were columnizing for?
[00:57:00]  The Sunday Times?
[00:57:01]  The television?
[00:57:01]  No, Telegraph.
[00:57:03]  I mean, I don't know how much of it you agree with.
[00:57:05]  I don't trouble myself with that.
[00:57:07]  You know, people are on it as presenters and hosts and guests.
[00:57:11]  You know, Dr. Hillary Jones was a guest on GB News the other day.
[00:57:16]  I didn't see it.
[00:57:17]  It's just somebody, somebody in high dudgeon, you know, asked me online what I thought of it and I didn't reply.
[00:57:24]  I didn't answer.
[00:57:25]  But, oh, God, right.
[00:57:26]  Really?
[00:57:26]  Dr. Hilary Jones, he of the jabs and wearing a mask when you go in the sea and all that kind of carry on.
[00:57:32]  And I don't even know what he was on to talk about.
[00:57:34]  I just know he appeared.
[00:57:35]  Well, probably wearing a mask in the sea.
[00:57:37]  Maybe it's his field of expertise.
[00:57:40]  You know, I mean, if somebody invited me, I'd probably go if I thought I was going to get the opportunity to vent spleen or give my opinion about something, I would turn up on the platform.
[00:57:50]  I don't, you know, it doesn't.
[00:57:54]  Honestly, I speak from the heart.
[00:57:57]  Yes.
[00:57:58]  And of course, that will be used against you as well.
[00:58:00]  The fact that I dare say, I mean, I, you know, we are all just, we are all just anyway, that's my position on that.
[00:58:10]  It gets, you know, it's a platform.
[00:58:14]  It gets good numbers in certain areas.
[00:58:17]  And that works for me.
[00:58:22]  And I've been on, you know, I went on Tucker Carlson's podcast, which I very much, he took me and my wife out to New York, to Maine, to do it.
[00:58:32]  I did not know this.
[00:58:33]  Yeah, I mean, you know, he got in touch.
[00:58:36]  How was it?
[00:58:37]  Went out and we it was brilliant.
[00:58:39]  I mean, I had a great time.
[00:58:40]  He took us out and, you know, we had dinner with him the night before and we had a great session of doing the podcast in his barn.
[00:58:48]  And, you know, and it was.
[00:58:51]  Which American.
[00:58:53]  Absolutely.
[00:58:53]  And I've been on, you know, I've been on Alex Jones.
[00:58:56]  I've been on the Info.
[00:58:57]  Is it InfoWars?
[00:58:58]  Is that Alex?
[00:58:59]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:59:00]  I was on Alex Johnson.
[00:59:01]  I've been on Alex Jones a couple of times.
[00:59:03]  Great.
[00:59:03]  I mean, great fun.
[00:59:05]  Great.
[00:59:06]  Did you go to Texas?
[00:59:07]  No, no, I didn't.
[00:59:09]  The only one that flew me out was Tucker.
[00:59:11]  And I'm, you know, I'm in regular contact with Tucker.
[00:59:14]  I've, I've been on with Candace Owens, you know, who I, you know, who I love and fascinates me.
[00:59:20]  And I think she does the most amazing forensic interrogation of people like, you know, whatever from Bridge Eat Macron through to what's going on at TP USA and all of that.
[00:59:31]  And I, it's all part of life's rich tapestry.
[00:59:34]  And if someone invites me on, I'm there, you know, if the scheduling enables it.
[00:59:41]  I'm going to have to look up your Tucker.
[00:59:46]  Got nearly a million views, James.
[00:59:49]  Did it make you famous?
[00:59:50]  Did it have any influence on your, did you notice any impact?
[00:59:55]  I would hope it maybe made people in America aware of me who previously hadn't been aware of me.
[01:00:02]  I mean, his audience is vast.
[01:00:04]  You know, you're talking, you know, Candace Owens, I believe, is the biggest podcast in the world at the moment.
[01:00:11]  And then, you know, I'm in contact with Candace.
[01:00:13]  You know, we chew the fat about things.
[01:00:15]  And likewise, Tucker, love them.
[01:00:18]  Great fun to talk to.
[01:00:20]  And, you know, they've got the people are leveling their brick bats at them and they're in the crosshairs of this and that and whatever.
[01:00:27]  And we share, you know, we laugh in that kind of gallows humor way about the predicament in which we all, independent of one another, have found ourselves.
[01:00:36]  It's great.
[01:00:39]  Even though I think Tucker is CIA, sorry, but he is.

=== Suddenly Gifted Sight (04:56) ===

[01:00:43]  Well, he gets that leveled at him all the time.
[01:00:47]  Oh, I mean, because he is.
[01:00:49]  But doesn't mean to say that I don't love him and find him entertaining on most accounts and on point on a lot of things.
[01:01:00]  Yeah.
[01:01:02]  I think he's incredibly brave.
[01:01:04]  You know, I do think he puts himself in a very, even if you don't believe that he's likely to be assassinated or something, I think he's incredibly brave in that he puts himself in line for so much abuse.
[01:01:14]  And that is, that takes an enervating toll on a person.
[01:01:17]  Whoever you are, being constantly deluged with hatred is, you know, it's a tough one.
[01:01:24]  And Candace, likewise, I mean, she's a young mum and she's out there being loathed and accused of this, that, and the next thing.
[01:01:31]  And I just think, you know, good on you for being out there doing what you do.
[01:01:34]  Services are trying to kill her for only for pointing out that Bridget Macron is dad.
[01:01:42]  Yeah, so which he is, isn't he?
[01:01:45]  Yeah.
[01:01:46]  I mean, where are you?
[01:01:48]  Emmanuel Macron's married to his dad.
[01:01:49]  Yeah.
[01:01:50]  Yeah.
[01:01:51]  Exactly.
[01:01:52]  So, so, okay, so you're with me on that one.
[01:01:54]  You're with me in Candace on that one.
[01:01:56]  Are you Charlie Kirk?
[01:01:59]  Is he living in Kalhala Island?
[01:02:04]  Right at the start of this, you know, I said this thing about lacking certainty.
[01:02:07]  I just don't know what happened that day in that place.
[01:02:11]  Yeah.
[01:02:12]  I saw the fascinating podcast that you did with a man with a northern European Germanic accent.
[01:02:19]  He may have been Scandy.
[01:02:20]  I can't remember.
[01:02:21]  He was a Ole Damagard.
[01:02:27]  Could have been.
[01:02:28]  And, you know, he was saying that it never happened.
[01:02:31]  It was, you know, rent a hysterical crowd.
[01:02:34]  It didn't happen at all.
[01:02:35]  I listened to that and thought, my God, that's, you know, that's good listening.
[01:02:39]  Very fascinating.
[01:02:40]  I lack certainty about what happened to that man in that place.
[01:02:44]  And honestly, that's where I am with that.
[01:02:46]  I know for a fact that he was not shot with a 30, you know, 30 oh six rifle by who that's nonsense.
[01:02:53]  That would have been much messier, wouldn't it?
[01:02:55]  Of all the million things, you know, in the, you know, in the, you know, the million monkeys typing on their typewriters, you know, the least credible explanation for what happened to that human being that day is he was shot by Tyler Robinson with a 30 oh six.
[01:03:11]  That's the that's the worst of it.
[01:03:14]  Anything else?
[01:03:15]  Well, I'll wait and I'll wait and see if the day ever comes when there's what could be regarded as you know un undeniable veracity.
[01:03:26]  I'll see.
[01:03:27]  I just don't, I just know that's not what happened to that man that day in that place.
[01:03:32]  Yeah, well, look, I think that's a that's a very respectable position.
[01:03:38]  I mean, and there are lots of things out there that it's good to keep an open mind on until you've done your deep dive research.
[01:03:49]  Do you know what it's like for me, James?
[01:03:50]  You've made me think, I'll just jump in and say this because I'll lose the train of thought.
[01:03:53]  Maybe to me, the whole experience has been a bit like having been a blind person suddenly gifted sight.
[01:04:03]  Now, I don't mean X-ray vision or anything magical.
[01:04:06]  I just mean the one of the five senses that everyone takes for granted if they have them.
[01:04:13]  But, you know, but people who are born blind function and go about their lives being told, oh, red's like a hot stone and blue's like a which is precisely, you know, you can only say what something is like.
[01:04:27]  You can't actually use words to say what something is.
[01:04:30]  You can only use words to liken something to something else.
[01:04:35]  But for me, it's been like I was suddenly tapped on the shoulder with a magic wand and now I have sight.
[01:04:42]  And so everything amazes me.
[01:04:44]  It's like a child in a room, suddenly given sight.
[01:04:48]  I'm just looking around at everything in amazement, going, oh, wow, this is what it's like when you can see.
[01:04:54]  And something being able to see doesn't mean that you're accurately interpreting all the things that you see, because at that point, you become at the mercy of optical illusion and sleight of hand and distraction and all the things that magicians use.
[01:05:06]  And in the modern context, AI and CGI and all of the rest of it.
[01:05:11]  You know, being able to see does not proof you far from it from anything.
[01:05:17]  And it's just, I am in, I'm still going through the wide-eyed amazement.
[01:05:20]  Oh, this is what it's like to see.
[01:05:23]  I don't think I'm looking at everything and properly identifying everything that the photons bouncing off of everything are actually, I don't claim to be interpreting it all with 100% accuracy.
[01:05:35]  I've got, but I haven't, I feel I haven't exhausted the Tucker question yet.

=== Delightful Devilish Quality (04:46) ===

[01:05:40]  When he's not doing a podcast with you and you say in some ways, most of the time.
[01:05:45]  Does he go like that?
[01:05:49]  Does he do his touch?
[01:05:52]  I can honestly say I found him in the flesh.
[01:05:54]  I found him to be exactly the same person.
[01:05:58]  He was like that.
[01:05:59]  He's cover sorted.
[01:06:02]  Well, all the time I was with him, all of his mannerisms, his body language, his laugh, all of those things that he does when he's interviewing you, he does anyway.
[01:06:17]  That's all I can say.
[01:06:19]  He was just that person.
[01:06:21]  Can I say, this is envy speaking, Neil.
[01:06:27]  It's not bitterness.
[01:06:30]  I do like him.
[01:06:31]  I think it's like a friend of mine knows a Rothschild.
[01:06:39]  And the Rothschild person loves my friend and is helping him out with something.
[01:06:47]  You know, it's not as simple as just because Tucker's CIA, probably, doesn't mean that I wouldn't love to be on his podcast and don't think he's great.
[01:06:57]  In the same way, just because we know that the Rothschilds are one of the most evil families in the world and they help run the world, doesn't mean to say that on an individual level, they couldn't be lovely to you and they couldn't be your best friend.
[01:07:12]  The world is much more complicated than that.
[01:07:14]  I mean, surely you could be born with the Rothschild surname.
[01:07:19]  And, you know, none of us gets to choose our environment.
[01:07:24]  Well, I don't, Neil, I would have said that.
[01:07:26]  You see, I still think you're maybe three or four years behind me on the journey down the rabbit hole.
[01:07:32]  And I would have said that, but all the research I've done into the bloodlines, families, and the behavior, how they treat their how they treat their progeny.
[01:07:45]  It's all about turning them into kind of mind-controlled psychopaths.
[01:07:50]  So they're sexually abused from a very early age.
[01:07:55]  The kids that don't make the grade, that don't become psychopaths themselves, tend to die of drug overdoses and in car accidents and things.
[01:08:05]  They tend to weed out the aberrant, good members of the family.
[01:08:12]  So you're never going to get any saints in the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers or the Van Duens or the DuPonts or the Collins.
[01:08:19]  So what does that mean about your friends out of Brandini?
[01:08:23]  Well, what it means is that people are more complicated than just simple, cacklingly evil.
[01:08:31]  They're nice to their friends.
[01:08:33]  They can be charming.
[01:08:34]  They can be.
[01:08:37]  I was just talking to the man who's planting some trees in my garden at the moment.
[01:08:41]  And he was telling me about how he'd been invited to the stately home of the local TOF.
[01:08:53]  And he was saying how delightful the chap had been and how charming.
[01:08:56]  And I said, well, of course, of course, he was charming.
[01:08:59]  That's what they're trained to do at Eton and in their upbringing.
[01:09:06]  People are too quick to say, oh, I've met so-and-so and they're lovely.
[01:09:10]  They're absolutely delightful because I've spent time in their company being charmed by them.
[01:09:13]  Well, charm is a useful quality to have.
[01:09:17]  I have it myself occasionally, but it's also a devilish quality.
[01:09:21]  The devil has got charms in spades.
[01:09:26]  In the same way, I'm sure that saints could occasionally be grouchy, miserable so-and-so's.
[01:09:33]  We're all a bit mixed.
[01:09:35]  It's not all black and white.
[01:09:39]  Almost that's all.
[01:09:40]  I think that's where I am about everything.
[01:09:43]  I just don't know.
[01:09:45]  But, Neil, the reason I'm, I didn't drink enough water this morning.
[01:09:53]  I did.
[01:09:53]  I did a I this because my wife went to the office and doesn't didn't have breakfast with me today.
[01:10:03]  I did the thing where you intermittent fast, i.e., I skipped breakfast.
[01:10:10]  And I know it's good for you, but then I had a, I had a very, very salty tagine.
[01:10:16]  And I'm, I, haven't got enough water.
[01:10:21]  I'm drying up.
[01:10:22]  Anyway, I just thought I'd treat you to that personal.

=== Subverting the Natural Order (13:37) ===

[01:10:26]  I'm not going to let you off the hook as regards grand universal theories of everything.
[01:10:33]  Because look, you're obviously a really bright, well-read bloke.
[01:10:42]  You used that word on me that I didn't understand, which you had to explain to me.
[01:10:46]  Tell me the word again: apophatic.
[01:10:50]  Apophatic.
[01:10:51]  And there was another word you used as well, you didn't understand either.
[01:10:53]  Apophatic, cataphatic, cataphatic, cataphatic.
[01:10:57]  So the positive way and the negative way.
[01:11:00]  Okay.
[01:11:01]  You know, Slouch in the intellectual department, and you are more or less a batshit, crazy conspiracy theorist.
[01:11:08]  And you've been down the rabbit hole for a while now.
[01:11:12]  So you must have asked yourself the question: all this bad, bad shit that's going on in the world, and it's really horrible, and it's getting worse.
[01:11:22]  It really is.
[01:11:22]  I mean, I mean, potholes, for example, we could talk about potholes.
[01:11:26]  We could talk about everywhere from there's a spectrum that goes from potholes all the way to children being sacrificed to Satan for their adrenochrome and everything in between.
[01:11:35]  And this is all happening now as we speak.
[01:11:37]  And it's getting worse.
[01:11:40]  You know all this.
[01:11:42]  So you must have asked yourself who's doing this and why.
[01:11:48]  And you must have come up with at least a kind of sketchy theory on this.
[01:11:54]  I've got so many theories.
[01:11:57]  Don't think it's the anarchy.
[01:12:00]  I think broadly, what I think is that there is an agenda that predates most of what most people regard as history.
[01:12:21]  There's a determination.
[01:12:23]  As I say, you know, I think it wasn't coined for the first time by John in his gospel.
[01:12:30]  But that idea of wherever there's a light, there's a determination to counter it.
[01:12:37]  Okay, yeah.
[01:12:38]  I think, you know, and I think I often think there's a film that I saw years ago, and it's based on a novel by Peter Straub, Peter Straub.
[01:12:50]  It's called Ghost Story.
[01:12:53]  It's a big fat book, and it became a film probably in the 1990s.
[01:12:59]  And it's the idea that there's an evil entity, and it keeps on manifesting.
[01:13:08]  It's essentially immortal.
[01:13:11]  And it has manifest into the lives of a bunch of men in mid-20th century in the context of the novel.
[01:13:21]  And it comes to them in the context of in the guise of a young woman.
[01:13:26]  And they wrong the young woman.
[01:13:29]  And the entity then comes after them, you know, in the classic sort of ghost story vengeance style.
[01:13:36]  But the entity is able to keep on leaving the guise that it has had and take on something else.
[01:13:42]  And it's called, for the sake of the novel, it's called the manateu, which if you look up in sort of Native American lore, a manateu is a kind of an eternal spirit that can that appears and then becomes something else.
[01:13:56]  And I think, you know, you're asking me what I think.
[01:14:00]  I think there's an agenda, an intention to subvert the natural order.
[01:14:08]  And it is the dark, you might say.
[01:14:11]  And its intention is to do what the well, the dark is what was what is there when there is no light.
[01:14:16]  The dark isn't really anything in and of itself.
[01:14:18]  It's an absence of light.
[01:14:21]  And I think there's a darkness and a dark intent.
[01:14:24]  And it keeps on manifesting time and time and time again, taking on and being, you know, hiding within and being and disguising itself.
[01:14:37]  But I think there's an intention that's very old that is to subvert the natural order.
[01:14:43]  And at the moment, I think it's approaching a climactic moment.
[01:14:51]  You know, it's shit or get off the pot, fisher-cut bait.
[01:14:55]  It's going for it at this time.
[01:14:58]  And that's why more people are becoming more aware because it's becoming more obvious than it's, I'm not going to say more obvious than it's ever been, but I think it's becoming more obvious in our time than it has been for maybe a long time, maybe ever, although I doubt it.
[01:15:18]  And I think that ultimately it's to subvert the natural order.
[01:15:22]  I think it's anti-human.
[01:15:24]  I think it means that's why it attacks at the fundamental level family, community, even what it is to be human and alive.
[01:15:33]  That's why it's got the transgender, the trans-human aspect of it.
[01:15:40]  It's even inviting people to be uncertain about what even is human.
[01:15:47]  But all of the subversion of the natural order is manifesting itself.
[01:15:51]  And that's why, because I am middle management in every way, I say to myself, well, if you've noticed, it must be pretty noticeable because there's nothing particularly intuitive or perceptive about me.
[01:16:04]  I'm not the dullest blade in the drawer, but neither am I the sharpest.
[01:16:08]  I'm just workman-like cutlery.
[01:16:14]  Who is the sharpest blade in the drawer?
[01:16:17]  Oh, well, you mean alive and walking around today?
[01:16:22]  I think I don't think there is anyone.
[01:16:23]  I think everyone's got feet of clay.
[01:16:25]  I don't think there's anyone who's certainly in the way sharp.
[01:16:31]  You can still get the sharpest brain in the jaw with maybe a clay base.
[01:16:36]  I think definitely what we're seeing, which I won't deny, I do find satisfying.
[01:16:41]  I think the more on paper qualified people are, intends to work, they're the most gulled.
[01:16:52]  They've just spent more of their lives being indoctrinated by the indoctrinating negative force.
[01:16:58]  The more letters someone has after their name, I tend to think, oh dear.
[01:17:03]  I'm so glad I haven't got a doctorate.
[01:17:05]  Yeah, me too.
[01:17:06]  I mean, I keep saying to people, Mr.'s good enough for Spock and Sherlock, so it's good enough for me.
[01:17:12]  Yeah.
[01:17:13]  Now, I suppose what I was getting around to in your case was you made a very interesting observation, which I think is true, by the way.
[01:17:20]  I agree with everything you say, what you said about evil and stuff, and it's the kind of antithesis of light.
[01:17:29]  But you mentioned that this force is anti-human.
[01:17:35]  Now, in my schemata, which is actually not a million miles from yours, except I'm more explicit about it.
[01:17:46]  In my schemata, this is all very clearly explained.
[01:17:50]  That the fallen angels hate mankind because God made us in his image.
[01:17:59]  They felt jealous of him.
[01:18:01]  They wanted to replace God on, create a simulacrum of God's creation, but a human, well, a sort of fallen angel stroke, human version of it, which is why they built the Tower of Babel and so on.
[01:18:18]  All this stuff is explained very clearly in the Bible.
[01:18:22]  Well, I shouldn't actually, not very clearly, but it is explained in the Bible.
[01:18:26]  And we've had to sort of fill in the blanks.
[01:18:28]  But it is pretty much spelled out.
[01:18:30]  I'm just wondering why you don't go, yeah, basically, it is the fallen angels and their offspring rebelling against God with the help of some human accomplices.
[01:18:45]  Well, I mean, you know, that's why it's so interesting that all of that material is so interesting and hard to interpret, obviously, certainly for someone like me.
[01:18:55]  But I am aware, for example, that when you say God created man in his image, he created Adam in his image.
[01:19:09]  You know, Adam uniquely was not born, you know, he was not carried, gestated within a woman's body and given birth.
[01:19:18]  He was created out of the clay, let's say, as far as Genesis would have it.
[01:19:26]  But everybody else is born of, well, in the Bible telling, everybody else is born of Adam and Eve in the convention.
[01:19:37]  In the conventional way, when you talk about the fallen angels being angry about God's image, there's only Adam.
[01:19:50]  They would only, in your schemata, be leveling that kind of ire at Adam specifically because everybody else is born of Adam.
[01:20:00]  No, I think that's a really fair point.
[01:20:03]  We can infer very clearly that the fallen angels, the Bible's constantly talking about the Son of Man.
[01:20:11]  And by the Son of Man, they mean the sons of Adam.
[01:20:16]  But it is assumed there is a kind of an ellipsis which takes place there, which is for Adam, see also all men thereafter.
[01:20:26]  I think it's a nice point, but I'm not sure it's a very valuable point.
[01:20:29]  And also, I mean, the Sethian heresy in Inverted Commas, you know, insists that there's a prologue to Genesis and that you detect it between Genesis 1-1 and Genesis 1-2.
[01:20:47]  You know, so they, the Sethian heresy, which, you know, has some, you know, has things in common with the Manichaeanism and other heresies.
[01:20:59]  And I'm just using the word, I'm not saying, you know, I'm just saying that they're called heresies.
[01:21:04]  You know, but so there are not hard and fast about interpreting the Bible because I think I've read enough and seen enough to know that there are as many, there are many different, there are many loopholes, if you like.
[01:21:19]  There are ways in which brighter minds than mine have spotted, ah, hold on, this might be what's meant by that.
[01:21:27]  And, you know, you talk about the fallen angels.
[01:21:29]  I mean, there's probably even a distinction between, you know, people talk about, I mean, presumably, the ultimate fallen angel is Satan.
[01:21:41]  Yeah.
[01:21:42]  Presumably or Lucifer.
[01:21:43]  I mean, I think it's well, this is one of the hard things.
[01:21:46]  It's hard to work out.
[01:21:48]  But etymologically, Satan means the adversary.
[01:21:53]  Yeah.
[01:21:54]  So he's someone who sets himself against his opposite or God.
[01:22:01]  And then there's the devil, and the devil means accuser.
[01:22:07]  And then there's Lucifer, which is the son of the morning, morning star, and all of the rest of it.
[01:22:16]  And so the ultimate fallen angel is Satan.
[01:22:22]  But Satan, according to the Bible, plainly walks the earth.
[01:22:26]  You know, he's not in hell.
[01:22:29]  Because in Job, for example, he rucks up and God asks him what he's been up to.
[01:22:34]  And he says, I've been wandering about and I've spotted your man Job and I think I can do a number on him.
[01:22:39]  And God says, well, if you go and do your worst.
[01:22:41]  So Satan's roaming the earth and God knows it.
[01:22:44]  And you're talking about the angels that fall in as much as they give in to their lustful tendencies and they see and covet the daughters of the daughters of man and they want in amongst them and they breed with them.
[01:23:06]  And it's only, you know, the fallen angels all seem to be male.
[01:23:13]  There aren't any fallen feminine angels that couple with sons of.
[01:23:20]  It's always male angels who come.
[01:23:22]  And they are of a different...
[01:23:26]  And their progeny are the Nephilim, which are the watchers, which there's a great deal more about in the book of Enoch than there is in Genesis.
[01:23:37]  So there's a bit more detail in the book of Enoch about who exactly is there in that context.
[01:23:46]  All I mean is that I certainly do not claim to have the necessary knowledge nor wit comprehensively to interpret what is there in the redacted, rewritten, interpolated, translated entity that's called the Bible.

=== Steiner's Clairvoyant Wisdom (09:55) ===

[01:24:04]  I'm listening to what you're saying and I listen to what scores of other people say about it.
[01:24:09]  And there are as many into it.
[01:24:11]  I don't think to counter your point that it is that cut and dry, that you just read the Bible and get the truth.
[01:24:19]  I don't think it's anything like that.
[01:24:20]  No, no.
[01:24:21]  And nor was I asking you to agree with me, although nothing you've said actually.
[01:24:30]  What you've just told me is that you've read a lot about this stuff and you've been keeping your powder dry and waiting for me to approach the palace before giving me the full volley.
[01:24:43]  But no, I mean, I don't disagree with anything that you say and I'm aware of all these inconsistencies.
[01:24:49]  But it seems to me to be a cop-out, if you like, to say, well, there's this elemental force of evil, which is the opposite of light, and it's kind of like a manateu and stuff.
[01:25:07]  I think there's it's not Even if you don't have to be right and you don't have to be adamant, but I think that you need a better working theory than you've got at the moment.
[01:25:22]  You don't have to worry about it.
[01:25:22]  I don't even have a theory.
[01:25:24]  I don't even have a theory.
[01:25:26]  Well, and that's what's troubling me slightly.
[01:25:28]  I'm puzzled as to why.
[01:25:31]  Because, I mean, we're human.
[01:25:34]  We're trained to watch.
[01:25:36]  We like watching dramas and we've taught ourselves, maybe it's innate to try and work out the motivations.
[01:25:45]  And if there isn't a motive, if it's just motiveless malignity, we feel uncomfortable with it because we kind of want to know why people are not.
[01:25:53]  I think it works in what I think is, I think it works in that way.
[01:25:57]  Again, I go back to the line in John about the light and the dark.
[01:26:01]  I think the lesson that's there is that the dark or the evil or the absence of God, I mean, there's as many ways of expressing the thought.
[01:26:15]  It is what happens unless people are actively good.
[01:26:21]  I think the dynamism comes from the light.
[01:26:27]  And that evil, the devil, darkness, wickedness manifest is what happens when the active good drops its, you know, drops its burden.
[01:26:46]  You know, I think it's beholden on the other side of the equation to be actively the light because it's in the absence of that.
[01:26:56]  It's when that is, it's when the shoulders slump and the burden is set down that the dark, the evil is, is then what is that's what you get.
[01:27:08]  I think that's what's there encapsulated in the prologue to John.
[01:27:13]  Do you think, are you?
[01:27:17]  I don't want to dump terms on you if they're not fair, but would you say that are you sympathetic to the new age?
[01:27:25]  What do you mean by the new age?
[01:27:26]  Well, the teachings of sort of Madame Blavatsky and no, not particularly.
[01:27:31]  I mean, again, I find the theosophy movement interesting and I find the anthroposophy of Rudolf Steiner.
[01:27:42]  I find all of these things interesting because I think more in the case of Steiner than Blavatsky, I think he was genuinely striving.
[01:27:52]  I think there's something genuine.
[01:27:55]  There's a limit to which I just, on the face of it, accept wisdom that's accomplished by just clairvoyance and mysticism.
[01:28:06]  I'm not sure about that.
[01:28:09]  And that's obviously what makes me a bit, you know, because Steiner thought that he was, you know, absorbing what he knew out of the ether almost.
[01:28:19]  And maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but I certainly wouldn't be certain about it.
[01:28:23]  So I've got more time for anthroposophy than theosophy.
[01:28:30]  But I just, I'm interested and open to people who I think are genuinely questing, genuinely trying, trying to manifest good.
[01:28:42]  And I think some people genuinely are.
[01:28:45]  How would you go about this?
[01:28:46]  I mean, what would the world look like?
[01:28:48]  What would people be doing more of?
[01:28:51]  In a good world.
[01:28:52]  Yeah, I mean, if that's the answer, if we're going to defeat this evil body.
[01:28:58]  I think it's infinitely fascinating.
[01:29:00]  I believe, I think a lot of the trouble in the West is because the Old Testament was bracketed onto the New Testament and the whole thing was called the Holy Bible.
[01:29:14]  You know, Oregon, in particular, was incensed about the wrongness of doing that, of bolting like a dead elephant onto the wing of the little light Cessna aircraft that was the New Testament.
[01:29:31]  You know, he couldn't believe that they had done that to the...
[01:29:35]  I don't think Oregon used that...
[01:29:38]  I don't think he used that metaphor either.
[01:29:40]  But you know what I mean?
[01:29:42]  You know, he couldn't believe that they had so burdened and so traduced the New Testament by bolting it together with the old.
[01:29:52]  And so when you say, what would the world look like?
[01:29:56]  I think the message that Jesus came to deliver was extremely simple.
[01:30:04]  And I think it all boiled down to, well, you know what it boils down to.
[01:30:07]  It's treat everyone like you'd wish to be treated.
[01:30:12]  You know, it's that golden rule.
[01:30:14]  You know, and I think if the world was made up of people earnestly doing that, then you would see what you would see.
[01:30:24]  You know, Francis Hutchison, who had the chair of moral philosophy at Glasgow University in the middle of the 18th century, part of the Scottish Enlightenment, I mean, he preached that happiness was not random manna from heaven.
[01:30:37]  Manna, incidentally, is an interesting word.
[01:30:39]  It means I don't know what that is.
[01:30:42]  So the thing that the Israelites were eating in the desert, they were literally saying, I don't know what that is.
[01:30:48]  So Hutchison said, happiness is not just random.
[01:30:51]  It's not a lottery win.
[01:30:53]  It's on the contrary, it's what happens when you give all of your effort to making other people's lives better.
[01:31:00]  And if you do that with every fibre of your being, then a collateral benefit is some happiness for you.
[01:31:06]  And that then, when one of his students, John Witherspoon, was invited to become the second president of what is now Princeton University, he took that teaching with him.
[01:31:19]  And there are good reasons for thinking that the line, he is a signatory of the Declaration of Independence, also Witherspoon.
[01:31:25]  And there are good reasons for thinking that the line about the pursuit of happiness made its way into that document because of Witherspoon and ultimately because of the teaching of Francis Hutchison, who said, if you give all of your effort to making other people better off, then that will make you happy.
[01:31:44]  That's the pursuit of that is the earnest pursuit of happiness.
[01:31:49]  And I think, I don't think, because of all the interpolations and all of the agenda-driven reinterpretations of whatever Jesus and others said, I think the only, as much of it, and I would even leave a qualifier there for it.
[01:32:06]  I think the line about treat everyone like you would wish to be treated, if we saw that manifest in the world, then the world would be a better place.
[01:32:18]  Oh, I think no question.
[01:32:22]  Yeah.
[01:32:22]  So that's, you know, that's what I think about that.
[01:32:30]  So I agree that that's, I mean, it ain't going to happen, unfortunately, because of the, well, it's almost systematically embedded, isn't it?
[01:32:41]  Bad behavior is the system encourages amoral behavior.
[01:32:51]  You look at the kind of things that kids are taught on graduate trainee knee schemes.
[01:32:57]  And there are all these artificial values that are imposed upon them, which have a sort of virtue-adjacent feel to them, like sustainability.
[01:33:08]  Everyone knows that sustainability is good without really having questioned the origins of that term.
[01:33:15]  Well, the whole diversity, equity, and inclusion, these are all sold to us as good things.
[01:33:22]  And they're not necessarily.
[01:33:24]  In fact, not at all.
[01:33:27]  But I agree with you that if we all loved our neighbours ourselves, it would make a huge difference.
[01:33:35]  But it doesn't really answer the question about why things have got that feeling you've got and I've got that we're approaching the kind of well, what people might call end times, but we're seeing it about as bad as it's ever been.
[01:33:50]  Why is that?
[01:33:53]  Why have people?
[01:33:54]  Yeah, why is it happening?

=== Soft Living Trajectory (06:45) ===

[01:33:59]  I think it.
[01:34:05]  It's partly, I think, the consequence of uh, soft living, but by by which i'm referencing the idea that you know a, you know a, a hard-working entrepreneurial, you know go-getter, establishes a fortune and then the next generation, you know, you know, squander it, and then the, the third generation finally, you know, throws it all away and ends up in the, you know,
[01:34:34]  in the gutter with a needle in their arm.
[01:34:36]  you know, that kind of trajectory.
[01:34:38]  And I think in the West, certainly, I mean, I certainly can't speak to parts of the world in which I was not raised and the paidea of which I have not absorbed.
[01:34:53]  But I think we've been, I am too, you know, we've set aside too much of what it means to be human and alive.
[01:35:03]  You know, and I think, for example, I think, for example, in my case I would say look, and many like me we've, we've allowed to be uh, denatured of our masculinity and I can't, and again I, I can't, speak to the feminine because i'm not a woman, I am only a, I am only a man.
[01:35:22]  But i'm aware of the fact that you know the, the kind of warrior creed uh, you know and, and and you know that the, the innate potency of violence, properly mastered and channeled, is what you want from a man and that you don't want.
[01:35:42]  You don't want just arbitrarily, casually violent men, but that teaching that if you think that you're a nice person and you have no violence in you, then you're much more dangerous than a violent person and the best of all is is someone who has uh, accepted the presence of the of the monster and has, as has uh has, mastered it.
[01:36:05]  You know the word meek, the meek shall inherit the earth everyone.
[01:36:12]  Most people think meek means just whatever weak, really soft, but when you follow its translation out of the Greek, it comes from Prows and it's about the the, the images of um, a wild horse, Which in and of itself is a skittish, unpredictable creature that's liable to hurt itself and others if it's provoked.
[01:36:37]  But once it's mastered by its rider, it becomes meek, which is to say it becomes an incredibly effective, channeled power.
[01:36:47]  That's meek, mastered power.
[01:36:51]  And so I think we've had too long of being told the things that we've been told in the West.
[01:36:57]  I can't do anything.
[01:36:58]  I can't go into the wild and hunt and provide in practical terms for my family.
[01:37:06]  I'm dependent on shops and I'm dependent on all of it.
[01:37:09]  So I think we've denatured ourselves.
[01:37:13]  Oh, we've been denatured.
[01:37:16]  Well, yes.
[01:37:16]  I mean, it's a chicken and egg situation because we have a, I suppose, I suppose the animal has a tendency.
[01:37:22]  If the animal is offered honey, it will gorge on it.
[01:37:26]  You know, we will go to the sweet.
[01:37:28]  We will go to it's a, you know, you'd have a, you would naturally set aside your hammer and your and your shovel and live a soft life if it was offered to you because, you know, it's there and it's innate in the species.
[01:37:43]  You know, not many people will pick the ascetic Spartan life if something fur-lined and sweet is offered as an alternative.
[01:37:52]  You know, so and that that tendency of the animal has been identified long ago.
[01:37:59]  You know, you give them bread and circuses and all of that then comes into play.
[01:38:03]  So you say, why did it, why has it happened?
[01:38:06]  I think it's because life has become too easy and we have become soft and that has been our undoing.
[01:38:19]  It's going to be, I'm feeling quite depressed now, Neil.
[01:38:22]  It's not, I don't think, I am not depressed.
[01:38:26]  I think, I think, I think, you know, sadness or whatever gets a bad rap.
[01:38:33]  I think, you know, you're sold a version of life which is about happiness, which I think is really akin to drunkenness, you know, which is fun, but it's not really a way to live a life just being drunk.
[01:38:48]  You know, you need to be sober as well, most of the time to get things done.
[01:38:53]  And there's a whole rich texture of reality, of what it is to be human and alive.
[01:39:02]  And we've been browbeaten and MK ultra and brainwashed into thinking that, you know, unless you've got three Range Rovers, a Lamborghini, infinite upgrades on your phone, and you never have to work and everything's golden.
[01:39:21]  That's a complete, that's a complete travesty.
[01:39:25]  You know, that which we have been sold is our undoing.
[01:39:30]  And I think you say, I'm depressed.
[01:39:34]  I think it's infinitely thrilling to contemplate the fullness, the rich texture of what it is to be human and alive.
[01:39:47]  And I think you can, I think, you know, success is counted sweetest by those who never succeed.
[01:39:54]  To comprehend an ector requires sorest need.
[01:39:58]  I think, you know, it's sorest need is what comes back into your life if you're splashed in the face or slapped in the face with the realization that a soft, easy life is not worth having at all.
[01:40:14]  And, you know, once you're confronted with that, then even if you don't achieve it, but being invited to strive, you know, to strive and not to yield, you know, these things are true.
[01:40:29]  And even if you fall and fail, you know, not one of all the purple hosts that took the flag today can tell the definition so clear of victory as him defeated dying on whose forbidden ear the distant sounds of triumph burst agonized and clear.

=== Confronted With Reality (11:39) ===

[01:40:45]  What's that from?
[01:40:46]  That's Emily Dickinson, but I don't know the name of the poem, but you know, that even if you don't make it, even if you fall in the battle, even if you don't taste the ambrosia, even if you don't, what matters is to know it's there and to live your life in, you know, in the pursuit of it.
[01:41:08]  That's we've been, we've been, you know, we're handed this, you know, this nonsense Erzat's success and happiness that is not, that is neither.
[01:41:21]  I, yeah, look, I agree with everything you're saying, but I'm, I'm, I'm recognizing the irony of this here.
[01:41:27]  Look, there you are in your nice, what's that?
[01:41:31]  I've already said I am one of those, I am one of those mind figures.
[01:41:35]  So we're preaching this stuff, but actually, really, you know, I've got my nice microphone.
[01:41:42]  I don't preach this stuff.
[01:41:44]  I don't think I'm an exemplar of anything.
[01:41:47]  I'm just interested.
[01:41:51]  All I'm saying is that should we really even be talking, what we should be doing is going and pumping iron and being being learning martial arts skills while we still have an ounce of strength in our failing, feminized bodies.
[01:42:13]  I mean, this is this is, I think some, the shit's about the hit the fan.
[01:42:18]  And although I've got, I've planted some garlic this year, I'm happy about my garlic.
[01:42:23]  I'm happy about the small measures I've taken towards self-sufficiency.
[01:42:28]  I recognize that they're pitifully inadequate.
[01:42:32]  But I also subscribe to some extent to the notion that you were talking about fallen angels and all of the rest of it.
[01:42:40]  And you'll have read into the whole idea of the demiurge and that the whole physical real world that we experience is the creation of an artisanal lesser being, the demiurge.
[01:42:56]  You don't buy into that.
[01:42:58]  That's Gnosticism, which I don't.
[01:43:03]  I'm not saying that.
[01:43:04]  I'm just saying it's another thing to consider.
[01:43:07]  You know, there's a the the Cathars, you know, who were, you know, who were wiped out in the, you know, the 13th and 14th centuries, the Albigensian Crusade.
[01:43:21]  Now, their version of whatever belief, strange to say, is very much mirrored in Nosairi, which is, well, I suppose better known as the Alawite sect that was in Syria, but it's in Syria and up into Turkey.
[01:43:42]  There's a, you know, there's a sect of belief that is Nosairi, and it's very similar to what was manifest amongst the Cathar, the Cathars.
[01:43:58]  And there's a lovely Nosairi prayer, which is about deliver us from these human forms and recloth us in light among the stars.
[01:44:14]  And it's about, I suppose, it's a mindset that contemplates the possibility that all of this is just all of this, and that we are immortal beings of light, that we are of the sunyata, the void, the ineffable, you know, sons and daughters of the Most High, whatever language you want to use to try and encapsulate the thought.
[01:44:41]  You know, there's a whether you ever become warrior or whether you ever, you know, live the ascetic life and grow your own food and bring down a caribou and provide for your children with the strength of your back.
[01:44:57]  Ultimately, we are brief manifestations of matter, islands of matter in an ocean, an infinite ocean of spirit, mind, really.
[01:45:10]  And so I sometimes think that where we are now is like an escape room.
[01:45:18]  You know, those things where you paid to go in and you get shut in and you have to solve a series of questions or riddles or challenges and then you get out.
[01:45:26]  Yeah, I think it's a, I think there's that's another possibly slightly helpful way of contemplating what we're experiencing.
[01:45:35]  That you know, you're going to get out of this.
[01:45:38]  Whether you believe in whatever you believe, you know, even if even the most convinced atheist thinks you're going to get out of here, even if it's into nothing in the case of an atheist, but everyone thinks you're that this is temporary, and the faithful, in whatever, whether they be Buddhist or Christian or whatever, they believe they're going to get out of this.
[01:46:05]  And so, you know, deliver us from these human forms and recloth us in light among the stars.
[01:46:10]  You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, I like that.
[01:46:16]  I like that.
[01:46:16]  I think we'll end on that thought, actually.
[01:46:18]  That's a good one, Neil.
[01:46:20]  Thank you.
[01:46:21]  Good fun talking to you, James.
[01:46:22]  That was very interesting.
[01:46:25]  I'm glad.
[01:46:26]  I'm glad that I'm going to look up apophatic theology.
[01:46:30]  I will.
[01:46:30]  You'll find it enriching.
[01:46:33]  Is there any book I need to read about this?
[01:46:38]  Oh, gosh.
[01:46:40]  Well, the works of the individual who is called Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite are there.
[01:46:49]  There are a series of books.
[01:46:51]  You just love saying pseudo-Dionysius the Areopka book.
[01:46:55]  I also, I'm very taken with, I'm very taken with the teaching of another heretic, really, arguably the original heretic, who's Pelagius, who bumped heads with Augustine of Hippo in the 300s.
[01:47:12]  And Pelagius was a layman, a lay preacher, if anything.
[01:47:16]  And he Augustine was determined about the fallen nature of man, that we are hopeless, fallen creatures, and that our only hope of salvation comes through the church, priests, confession, absolution, and so on and so on.
[01:47:35]  But Pelagius said, No, that's a cop-out.
[01:47:39]  We're all responsible for our own doings.
[01:47:43]  And it's possible to aspire to live a life as close to that of Jesus as you possibly can.
[01:47:48]  You're never going to be Jesus.
[01:47:49]  You're never going to be that good.
[01:47:51]  But that's the model.
[01:47:52]  And you don't need intercession.
[01:47:55]  And I like Pelagius.
[01:47:57]  If I'm anything in the Christian realm, I'm more in that realm.
[01:48:03]  I'm more in that direction.
[01:48:05]  Pelagius.
[01:48:07]  He's too.
[01:48:08]  I have heard of the Pelagius.
[01:48:11]  Pelagius.
[01:48:13]  Heresy.
[01:48:14]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:48:16]  So that would make sense.
[01:48:17]  Yes, it's all those people who say that good works make no difference.
[01:48:22]  You're already saved through the intercession of Jesus and stuff.
[01:48:27]  And yeah.
[01:48:28]  In fact, that's one of the topics that causes most dissent, I think, among Christians.
[01:48:34]  Because I must say, I tend towards your position that well, that it's not enough that one is saved through Christ and through the church.
[01:48:52]  You've got to put your back into it.
[01:48:54]  I think it's more complicated than that, yeah.
[01:48:57]  Yeah, it's the ultimate rabbit hole, I think, Christianity, which is why it's so endlessly fascinating.
[01:49:03]  It's step 100 on the staircase of disbelief.
[01:49:06]  It is.
[01:49:09]  I've got to get him on sometime.
[01:49:11]  It's Neil Kramer, is it?
[01:49:12]  That's right.
[01:49:13]  I couldn't swear to his first name, funnily enough, but yeah.
[01:49:16]  Is it Mark?
[01:49:17]  I can't remember.
[01:49:18]  I don't know.
[01:49:19]  I thought it was Neil, but I don't know.
[01:49:20]  Anyway, oh, I see.
[01:49:23]  Well, I suppose you're called Neil, so maybe it.
[01:49:26]  One has a blind spot.
[01:49:29]  One among you.
[01:49:30]  I think he might even be N-E-A-L.
[01:49:32]  Anyway, Neil, Neil Oliver, where can we find you?
[01:49:38]  Clearly, we can find you at GB News still.
[01:49:41]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:49:45]  I am the Coast Guy is my handle on X.
[01:49:49]  I have my own channel on YouTube and Rumble and TikTok and all of that.
[01:49:56]  So I do my own content.
[01:49:58]  I interview my own choice of people and I do my own monologues.
[01:50:02]  And there's also lots of history there because really my heart lies in history books.
[01:50:08]  And so there's plenty of my most recent book is Hauntings, a book of ghosts and where to find them, which is about ghosts, but it's also really addressing some of the, you know, asking some of the questions about, you know, what's it all about?
[01:50:24]  Have you seen a ghost?
[01:50:26]  Not in the classic sense, but I have and they're detailed in the book.
[01:50:31]  I've had some, you know, some of that has passed, has brushed past me like a stranger in a crowd.
[01:50:42]  Right.
[01:50:43]  But it's there in the book.
[01:50:44]  That's my most recent book.
[01:50:46]  I've got another book in the hands of my publisher at the moment, and that's just the process begun again to getting something out.
[01:50:53]  But yes.
[01:50:54]  You're a hard-working boy.
[01:50:57]  Well, I've got a mortgage to service.
[01:51:02]  My wife keeps on saying if we were controlled opposition and had money from Qatar, she'd have a new kitchen and would have an extension.
[01:51:08]  Yeah, yeah, you fool.
[01:51:10]  You fool.
[01:51:12]  Neil, it's been great catching up on you.
[01:51:15]  I think I might have to have you back on again when I've read your ghost book and find one.
[01:51:21]  I love the conversations we've had.
[01:51:25]  Not enough.
[01:51:26]  Too few.
[01:51:27]  No, it's definitely been too long.
[01:51:31]  I'll have you on my channel.
[01:51:32]  I'll return the favour.
[01:51:34]  Oh, that would be good.
[01:51:35]  Yeah, you don't have to kick if you want.
[01:51:38]  But yeah, I can talk about stuff, probably something.
[01:51:41]  I don't know what.
[01:51:42]  I believe that.
[01:51:42]  I've read that about you.
[01:51:47]  Thank you.
[01:51:48]  Oh, and everyone else, if you've enjoyed this podcast, which obviously you have, do please keep signing up, supporting me, spreading the word.
[01:51:58]  You can still try and support me on Substack.
[01:52:01]  I think it's a honey trap.
[01:52:02]  I don't trust their intentions, but try.
[01:52:05]  Or go to my website, jamesdellingpole.co.uk, and I think you'll soon find a way of being able to fund me directly instead of going through the other places.
[01:52:16]  Buy me a coffee, stuff like that.
[01:52:18]  And thank you again, Neil.
[01:52:20]  Thank you.
[01:52:21]  And let me send me a link so I can find this as soon as possible.