When Elizabeth Nickson was European Bureau Chief for LIFE, they took her up to an exceeding high mountain and showed her all the kingdoms of the world. But she wasn’t tempted. Now she writes an excellent and popular Substack - Welcome To Absurdistan - on subjects ranging from the destruction of her native Canada by the eco fascist agenda to the stupidification of women. James and Elizabeth chat about prayer, bloodline families, how Vancouver got turned from a beautiful, productive city into a centre for money laundering and vice.
https://elizabethnickson.substack.com
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Tickets are now available for the James x Dick Christmas Show 2025 on Saturday, 6th December. See website for details:
https://www.jamesdelingpole.co.uk/Shop/?section=events#events
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How environmentalists are killing the planet, destroying the economy and stealing your children’s future.
In Watermelons, an updated edition of his ground-breaking 2011 book, JD tells the shocking true story of how a handful of political activists, green campaigners, voodoo scientists and psychopathic billionaires teamed up to invent a fake crisis called ‘global warming’.
This updated edition includes two new chapters which, like a geo-engineered flood, pour cold water on some of the original’s sunny optimism and provide new insights into the diabolical nature of the climate alarmists’ sinister master plan.
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The official website of James Delingpole:https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk
x
Welcome to the Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I'm sorry, I've got some really bad news for you.
I've had to move the date of the Dick and James Christmas special.
I'm really sorry about this.
It was completely unavoidable.
But I really apologise to those of you who've already got your tickets and were fully lined up to come in in November.
And now I'm moving the date.
I hope you can make the new one.
I pray you can make the new one.
It's December the 6th.
It has the advantage of being a Saturday rather than a Friday, so you won't have to take the day off work if that weekend is free for you.
I hope it is.
If not, obviously you're going to get a full refund.
And I'm really, really sorry.
Those of you who haven't bought your tickets yet, well, you're in luck.
This may be a much better day for you.
December the 6th, the Saturday.
There'll be all sorts of fun there.
I mean, my Christmas party is becoming legendary.
There will be, I mean, I'm giving away no secrets here.
There will be a performance at Jourson.
There might be some other Christmas, well, some Christmas carols.
There will be a festive atmosphere.
No, I won't wear this junk probably.
It's a bit hot.
The unregistered chickens are playing, of course.
Dick, we're talking to me.
You remember Dick, my brother?
He's the one with the moustache.
And yes, there will be bell ringing for the special special, on the special special VIP tickets and other perks.
And there'll be, I mean, the food is extra, but it's really nice.
The caterers are really good.
It's actually stuff you'd want to eat.
And cash bar, nice venue.
Everyone who comes to these things says, I'm so happy I came because it's really, as I keep saying, it's really not about me.
Although, obviously, I'm mildly interesting.
It's not even about Dick.
It's about you.
This is a wonderful occasion for the gathering of the clans, of the tribes, and everyone there is like the best friend you've never met.
Or maybe you have met them before and you love them anyway.
It'll be fun.
December, what did I say?
December the 6th.
And I promise you I won't move the date again.
Saturday, December the 6th, James and Dick's Christmas special.
Details below.
I love Daddy Pole.
Go and subscribe to the podcast, baby.
I love Daddy Pole.
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Welcome to the Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
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Welcome back to the Delling Pod, Elizabeth Nixon.
Well, it's just one of my favorite places to be.
Oh, that's so nice.
And you brought your cat.
Do I have a cat here?
That's my dog.
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
Yeah, sorry, it's your dog.
Carson Russell.
Maybe I'm, oh, okay.
Maybe I'm just getting not very good at my animal identification as I get older.
Unlikely.
No.
Unlikely.
Actually, I am quite good on animals, on the gamut.
I think I probably know more about birds, particularly exotic birds than most people.
I definitely know more about reptiles and amphibians than most people, because I grew up keeping them and traveling all over the world collecting them.
These weird things, don't you find, Elizabeth, as you get older, you realize that the things that you thought were kind of extraneous to life or were kind of indulgences turn out actually to be the most important things.
So all the things like friendship, acquiring skills at games or sports, weird hobbies, those are the things that matter.
And all the kind of other stuff, the work stuff and the ambition stuff, is just trash.
Yeah, well, it certainly is not satisfying.
I mean, there's a certain amount of adrenaline reward that comes with that.
But yeah, I mean, my favorite times are out in the forest with my dog and the ocean.
And yeah.
And living an ordinary life.
I mean, I think all the time, well, shouldn't I be in London or New York or shouldn't I be going to conferences?
And I just think, why?
It's like, why?
I think we've both ended up like my favorite Tolstoy character, Lievin, in Anna Karenina, he discovers that what really matters to him is the simple country life.
And he has a sort of an epiphany when he spends his time scything With the peasants.
It's a bit idealized.
I can imagine that we had a go at scything.
Scything is hard.
I bought a scythe once and thought, I'm going to do this.
I got five minutes in and quit.
What you're saying, so you're saying that death actually has a much tougher job than we appreciate.
We cite it every second of the way, right?
Yeah, but I do think that there is some truth in that, beyond Tolstoy's kind of idealized, his surf fantasy.
That's kind of where we're meant to be.
It's healthier.
It's healthier.
I mean, it just is.
You are, because you're in the country and breathing that air and drinking our water is amazing.
It's just your aging slows down to a crawl.
It's when you're in the cities and you're being assaulted by cortisol and you know, fear and more fear and then ambition on top of it.
And then you have to drink in order to get rid of all the stress and you overeat and you're not sleeping properly and there's ambient noise around you all the time.
I mean, it's extremely unpleasant unless you're 30.
In which case, also, I think it helps if you have no soul.
I have a friend who has among his gifts, gifts, not gifts, he is he can tell when people essentially have no, well, no soul, actually.
I suppose that's one way of putting it.
He can see the auras of people who've got them.
And he says that in London, a lot, lot, lot of people do not have souls, which, if he's right, is kind of scary.
So they're non-playing characters?
Is that what he means?
I don't know what he means because he can't analyze it.
It's just what he can see and what he's always been able to see since he was a child.
And his problem is he's never been able to discuss with anyone because when he was a child, he was they try and have him see a psychiatrist.
Right.
And later on, like, what are the benefits of having this discussion?
You're going to be marginalized as a kind of case.
Or people are going to think that you're just talking rubbish.
And of course, how could people not have souls?
But yeah, I suppose that is what he's saying.
That a lot more people out there than we realize are NPCs.
I don't know how it works.
I mean, in terms of, well, the supernatural world and stuff.
I don't know what it means.
But that's what he sees anyway.
Okay, so to be charitable, you know, Kate said this is a veil of soul making.
These people may not be able to access their soul because they're overlaid with all of this conditioning and propaganda and you have to fit in with your cohort and you have to say the same things and think the same things and so on.
So, and unless you get beyond that layer of conditioning, which as we know is brutal, you can't access and you can't start to build a soul.
Maybe you come here and you're given an opportunity to develop a soul and that it might still, that spark might still be in there, but you haven't accessed it.
You haven't found it.
I mean, I'm being charitable here.
I mean, maybe they're just a computer program to put us through our soul making.
You know, maybe they're just there to assist us in our growth, the ones who have souls.
This is a very tricky subject, isn't it?
Very tricky.
Because I don't know whether you know, I've just been in Russia recently.
Where were you?
Hanging out.
Hanging out with loads and loads of monks and bishops and just Christian people.
And obviously it was a self-selecting audience, a self-selecting group of people that I was meeting in that because my trip was under the auspices of the Moscow Patriarchate Patriarchate, that inevitably the people I was traveling with were Christians of one form or another.
But everyone one spoke to was very aware that we are living in times of great spiritual struggle between good and evil.
And it was just really nice seeing people who totally got that side of things.
But I have huge respect for the Orthodox.
I think that of all the different branches of the church, it's probably most in touch with the mystical.
And I've been reading this amazing book, which I really recommend to you.
I'm recommending it to everyone called Everyday Saints.
I think his current title is Metropolitan Tikon.
He was Archimandrite Tikon.
They have all these wonderful titles.
He's a sort of senior bishop.
He also happens to be Putin's confessor, supposedly.
But he's written this book about his time being a monk and about their glimpses of the supernatural through fasting and prayer and meditation and so on.
They're more attuned to that realm than most of us will ever get to be in this world.
Nice.
Now that's a trip I would go on.
That sounds wonderful.
That was just great.
I loved it.
Anyway, when I came back, Michelle, who gives me these treatments and has appeared on the podcast occasionally, she's had great success.
It's weird.
She's now pretty much most of her clientele now are listeners to the podcast.
And she's worked miracles.
I mean, she is a miracle worker and people fly.
People fly from all over the world.
Like the other day, she had a family fly over, a whole family fly over from Portugal to drive up to Bristol airport, drive two hours, two and a half hours to the treatment, drive back to the airport, get back home, and then do the same thing again four days later.
That's how dedicated.
Anyway, she was giving me my treatment, and she said, whoa, I never normally, when I'm doing your craniosaccharal, when I'm working out your, what's it called?
She calls it Christ oil.
It's this sort of craniosacral fluid.
And she said, that time in, your time in Russia must have done something really extraordinary to you because your physical health, which is a sort of reflection of your spiritual health, is just absolutely top-notch at the moment.
Wow.
And that was from hanging out, I suppose.
Of course.
Of course, I love it.
In churches.
Being transported by When I went to some of the Russian there's always a service going on in these churches, particularly in the monasteries.
And you can just sort of wander in and out.
And it's a bit like, it's a bit like wandering in and out of a rave in the late 80s, except it's a kind of a holy rave.
You're transported to a place, a bit like the place that ecstasy used to transport you to in my clubbing days.
But this is pure and this is amazing.
The beauty of the music and the ceremony and the icons and the history.
Well, I mean, I did a piece for the Sunday Times magazine, London Sunday Times, and I went down to Oregon and I lived with evangelicals for about a month.
And I would go from and that's they were deeply Christ-focused people in every aspect of their lives.
And I went to church with them.
I went to the sort of Blood of the Lamb Baptist Church, which was very sort of, you know, very kind of Spanish in that, you know, there was blood in every mention of everything.
And then I went to the faith center where they would speak in tongues and give testimony.
And that church was all college students.
So it was texture and meaning that I could get.
And then I went to another evangelical church, which was on the bad side of Portland and was just all drug addicts who were and it was just like it was a bit like getting one step up into paradise because everybody worked at being good all the time.
So all of their thoughts were put through this filter.
Is this right?
Is this correct?
Am I?
And it was beautiful and I missed it.
Of course, you know, once I got back, the London Sunday Times just destroyed it and made them all sound like freaks.
Of course they did.
Of course they did.
Heartbreaking.
Who owns the newspapers?
I mean, who's the CEO of the media?
He's got to have horns, hasn't he?
No, it has to.
Has to.
I mean, my editor was great.
But no.
Anyway, so I know what that feels like.
I know what it feels like, and it feels amazing.
And I think we need a lot more of it in the culture.
And I think we're going to get it.
It's very interesting.
So the reason I mentioned my Russian trip, I think, was because what I was leading on to, the point I was going to make, was that I spend a lot of time thinking about the supernatural, about God, and about the Bible.
And I hang with different people, Christians, evangelicals, CMB, well, now Orthodox, Catholics, Reformed Baptists, and so on.
And they've all got something to give.
But there's no group you can go, there's no one you can go to and say, okay, so souls, where do they come from exactly?
How do they get, how many are there?
Are they divisible?
There's nobody.
There's no, I would say probably no go-to source authority that you can ask these questions.
Well, I mean, what weren't all souls born at the beginning of the universe, our universe, in one great big explosion?
Do they?
Is there a finite number of souls?
No, I think probably, I mean, I don't know because there's no accurate sourcing on this.
Probably souls are born every day.
But who knows, James?
I don't.
That's it.
Who knows?
This is why I'm...
So I've had my previous podcast guest who was utterly fascinating.
my previous podcast guest who was utterly fascinating um but at the end there was quite a sticky patch where he was he was obviously he was obviously a a devout christian I think probably of the evangelical variety.
And he was absolutely convinced that he was saved and that it was all going to be.
And I said, well, yeah, you obviously are a good person.
But hang on a second.
I'm just reading this book about monks at the moment.
And even the most devout monks are not convinced that they're saved.
And they spend their whole time in prayer and fasting.
And when you read the New Testament, read the Gospels, as I do, every night, and you look at what Jesus teaches you, it's pretty rigorous and austere.
I mean, it's quite sets the bar pretty high.
So I was trying to make this point gently to this guy.
I wasn't saying, look, mate, you're going to burn in hell.
You may think you're going to heaven, but you're not.
I wasn't saying that at all.
But he got really cross with me and really defensive.
And I thought, well, how do you know?
I don't know.
I spend all my time worrying about whether I'm doing it right.
and the more i think about it the more i think actually i'm pretty useless i'm pretty i think the more you think about about your your faith as a christian if you become a proper christian the more the more away you are of just how badly flawed and mr christian you are do you not think yeah i i do know what you're saying and
And I just, I mean, I work at it every day, but I consider myself adolescent at best.
And compared to almost everybody that I know, they're all not even in the kindergarten.
They're in nursery school.
They're in New Age land if they think about it at all.
Canada and my part of Canada is the most secular, it's the most secular country in Western democracies.
We have almost no awareness of Christianity as our founding faith, which it is, at all.
And any mention of it brings forth mockery and contempt.
So to me, for me, my task at this point in my life is just to try and try and make the world a better place for them, try to sort of untangle some of the prison that they've put themselves in so that they can grow.
And all I can think of right now is this younger generation at Gen Z. You know, I had my daughter when I was 18.
So if I have adult children in university and they're all sciencey and they're all, They're not ambitious in a worldly sense, but they're ambitious to the point that they want to do good, they want to have families, they want to live in the city that they grew up with so that their children can have cousins and they can live near their parents.
That's who I think about how can I help make that a possibility, not just for the privileged, because they are privileged, they're highly intelligent, they have financially stable parents, etc.
So, to me, that's you know, I'm just on a narrow focus here: service, service, that's my job.
And I kind of assume that if I talk to God every day, yeah, if I attend, if I listen to the Holy Spirit when I go down into the forest with the cat every morning and I sit there on a log and just wait for instructions, basically, that's my prayer life.
I mean, not that I do pray and I do have an active prayer life, and I'm trying to actually pray an hour in the morning.
I don't know why I'm telling you, I haven't told anybody this, and now I'm telling the world.
Well, it's quite interesting.
It's interesting for Christians.
I mean, I actually think non-Christian listeners are just going, What?
What's wrong with you?
Why are we listening to this?
Why is this Canadian woman telling me about her prayer?
You might become a Christian one day, and then you can go back to this podcast.
You can listen to it again.
When Elizabeth was talking boring stuff about her prayers, I now realize it was actually quite interesting because these are so, yeah, so you're setting aside an hour in the morning, and I'm trying to do an hour in the afternoon just as a discipline, just as a spiritual discipline.
Can I do that?
Can I overcome the flesh that wants to lie on the bed and watch TikTok and instead pray for an hour every afternoon?
It's just a you know, hard.
Well, I'm lucky because I've got my psalm routine, which means I have no option but to spend a significant chunk of my day thinking about godly things because I'm going, I'm going through the psalms when I do my stretches and my Pilates exercises when I'm doing my walking the dog, when I'm driving the car, I don't listen to podcasts anymore.
Car journeys are now for their psalm time, so I'm basically living the life of a monk in the world in the world.
And I'm not sure that there's this, I don't think this makes me very special.
I don't, I'm not, I'm this is not a boast, it's just I'm quite amused by how I've ended up.
But I have noticed my only I haven't had amazing things happen to me, but I have noticed that just occasionally, God will give you a little God treat, like for example, for example, this is a tiny, tiny God treat.
I was in the sauna the other night and I came out of the sauna and I met a Canadian couple, and I'll tell you about the Canadian couple in a moment.
Um, and I went into the changing room, and there was this bewildered elderly man trying to open the locker in the changing room, and um, and he couldn't get he couldn't get the code right.
And I thought, this is quite distressing for this chap.
You know, it's quite funny that he's got you see it all the time: people getting locked out of their lockers, but it's actually quite his wife's waiting for him, and he's he's upset and he's bewildered.
I said, Don't worry, I will go and talk to the girl at the desk, and we'll get it sorted, okay?
And so I went and told the girl at the desk.
And I sensed somehow that she wasn't totally taking it on board that this.
And so I then left to go to my car.
On the way to my car, I do these breathing exercises.
I do my boteco breathing.
And for some reason, I couldn't do it properly like I normally do.
I couldn't get my pauses very long.
And because there was a voice in my head saying, she has not sorted out the man with the locker.
You've got to go back and make sure she's done it.
And I thought, well, I can't ignore this voice because it's a very, very strong voice.
And at the same time, I thought, well, how am I going to go back and check on this girl?
She's going to think I'm spying on her.
Like, I'm accusing her of not doing her job.
So I went back and I pretended that I was looking for my wife.
And then I said, oh, by the way, how did you get on with that guy?
And she said, oh, I completely forgot about him.
There you go.
There is the voice of God.
You know, just like a tiny, tiny thing.
But he helped me help that man out of a distressing situation and it made me feel good.
And that was my reward.
That was just feeling nice, like I'd help somebody.
So thank you, God.
Well, isn't that, you know, if you listen to those things and obey them, then you get more, right?
Then you become sort of reliable.
I mean, that's what one wants to become for the Holy Spirit or the Comforter.
It's just you want to become reliable.
So if they, if it's, I mean, every piece I write every week, I allow the whatever spirit is overshadowing me to tell me what I should focus on.
Because if I choose for myself, it becomes, well, you know, this worked and that worked and this worked and that worked.
And maybe I can do marketing.
And how many, you know, how many, what was the financial reward of this piece compared to this piece?
If I'm writing about God or if I'm writing about economics or if I'm writing about Satanism, what, you know, I could be thinking that, but instead, what I think is, well, all right, tell me what to write.
I mean, I've got this skill.
It's spent 40 years developing this skill.
I'm very readable.
I'm, you know, excessively loved by my readers to the point of embarrassment.
So just tell me what to write.
And that's what I do.
That's what I do.
And not only that, James, things will come up on my computer that I need like spontaneously.
They will spontaneously arrive, the research.
Without, I mean, I'm looking for it, but then boom, on another window, there's something.
So that's what I, I try to live that close to the really alive part of what how God represents himself to me.
It's so much easier if you can contract out the difficult stuff to the Holy Spirit.
Yes, indeed.
He's there.
He's there to do it for you.
And frankly, he saves a lot of hassle.
But you're right about this.
You write very, very well, by the way.
And I find you very, I mean, I love it.
I was going to talk briefly to your piece about your piece about Point Reyes and about the removal of the farmers by the environmentalists, by the economists.
The Nature Conservancy.
Yeah, the Nature Conservancy.
Because that's how I first came upon you.
And I borrowed some of your research, I think, from my book, Watermelons.
Or possibly for a subsequent book, anyway.
I think that you, well, I mean, I think you published before me, so I.
Oh, okay.
So I think maybe I nipped some stuff from you from a subsequent book, which I did for Regnery.
But the Nature Conservancy, which sounds like it, it sounds like it's a good thing, doesn't it?
The Nature Conservancy.
So, I mean, the the is a bit is a bit dodgy, but nature, we like nature, conserve, we like conserves, we like conserving things.
It doesn't sound too eco-nuts, but it has got to be among the more evil charitable organizations in the world, isn't it?
Totally evil.
I mean, the pain that that organization causes in rural America is massive.
It's massive.
And for no reason.
I mean, the whole point race seashore thing is absolutely garbage.
And they've spent, I would say, $100 million getting rid of those people.
I mean, just in terms of sending teams of environmentalists onto the thing, you know, they're going to have to pay everybody off.
So there's 200 of them and they want to stay, but they're being paid between $1 and $5 million to move off the land.
And then they, the Nature Conservancy, is going to manage the dairy farms, which means they're going to shut them down, right?
Exactly.
Explain to non-American listeners.
Point raise.
It's in Northern California, isn't it?
Yeah, it's just north of San Francisco.
I mean, that's their.
And it's on the shore.
There's a lighthouse there, and there's lots of kind of sort of sand dunes and stuff.
It's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
Dairy farms, aren't they?
Yeah.
Yeah, and they've been there since 1800, which doesn't get any older for California than having a dairy farm in 1800.
So, yeah, it was just cruelty.
I mean, these kids, they got into these jobs, and there's an iron triangle between the bureaucrats and the conservancies and their funders.
And they just, and their funders are all plutocrats, billionaires, the city of London, who want to drive people off the land in the States, freeze the land, and take it so that they have this asset for the future, and that they don't allow the American economy to grow so that it can self-determine.
It's what they did to British Columbia.
Now, my great-grandparents, both sets, paternal sets, settled here in the 1880s when there were 4,000 people in Vancouver, which is now this vast city.
And they built the hospital, they built the roads, they built the water systems, they built everything.
And British Columbia is twice the size of Texas.
It's twice the size of Texas.
It has 10 biogeo climatic zones, which means it's got everything.
It's got gas, it's got oil, it's got rangeland, it's got farmland, it's got ski hills, it's got every conceivable thing you could want.
It has all the rare earth minerals you could possibly imagine, and it has been deliberately shuttered.
You cannot access any of that wealth.
You cannot grow a town.
Even building a neighborhood for people, we've been trying here for 20 years to build a low-income neighborhood.
And all that happens is that environmentalists methodically shut it down.
They shut down forestry, they shut down mining, they shut down water resources, they shut down natural gas extraction, they shut down any oil exploration.
Everything has been closed, and the people who have done it are the richest people on earth, headed up, of course, by the Rockefeller family, who are really the most evil operational foundation in North America.
Because I think in Europe, you've got the Rothschilds, right?
And they're well, I think, to be honest, I think the Rockefellers were always a Rothschild project.
They got their money from the Rothschilds, I think.
I'm pretty sure.
Only, because I've been reading up about this recently, and it seems that just by way of digression, before we move back to the destruction of British Columbia, in the official biography of the Rothschilds, which Neil Ferguson was paid to write.
Really?
Yeah.
He sold his soul to the Rothschilds.
Yeah, totally.
So he claims that, yeah, one of the mistakes the Rothschilds made was they never broke America.
They never saw the potential in America.
This is an absolute lie.
The Rothschilds very much saw the potential of America because they weren't stupid.
But what they did was they sent these, they created these sort of proxy banks.
So they owned J.P. Morgan, the man and the bank.
They sent somebody called Auguste Belmont, Augustus Belmont, over, who was basically their man.
I'm sure it's not that I don't doubt that Rockefellers are one of the Satanic Bloodlines families, but I think that it was Rothschild money that made it.
Yeah.
But on the subject of the Rockefellers, for whom I share your loathing, I mean, because they are truly, they're abominations.
And you've heard, by the way, David Rockefeller.
Have you heard the testimony of that woman who was his sex slave person?
Yeah, I've read it.
I've read it.
It's just horrible.
Are there any Rockefellers around today who are sort of carrying on the tradition, or is it just their sort of foundation run by sympathetic people who are doing their job for them?
Are there any baddie Rockefellers around at the moment?
Well, I mean, I have one of my friends is a Weston, you know, the Fortnum and Mason.
There's an English branch of the Weston family and a Canadian branch.
And she has the kind of education that they give you if you want to run the foundation.
And she says that when she goes to these massive foundation gatherings, everybody who they hire is they're all basically communists in every foundation.
Whoever is running it, they're basically communists.
But as you know, communism is used to break the culture.
I mean, that's what they, I mean, I think this is true that it is a kind of British Empire City of London invention, the whole Marxist thing.
So within the environmental movement, the Rockefellers, because they have the biggest foundation, every year they have a conference, they bring together all the environmental NGOs and the major activist organizations, and then they decide what they're going to take next.
So who are they going to break next?
So at one point, the forestry of British Columbia, I hate to keep bringing up my, but it's the same everywhere.
It's an interesting, and you know about it, so go to the bottom of the corner.
Right.
So as I annoyingly repeat all the time, we have the largest industrial forest in the world, and it is the fastest growing because we're in a temperate zone.
We have a lot of rain, we have a lot of sun, we don't get too cold, we don't get too hot.
So what this forest did, and it was just marginally exploited, was it paid for our health care and it paid for our education.
And that includes the universities, not just the school system.
And we have universal health care, so it paid for that.
Global warming is a massive con.
There was no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually, the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the climate change scam got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skull juggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question: okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands out.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother Gaia.
There we go.
It's a scam.
So what the Rockefeller gang did was they shut it down.
They started in the 80s.
And by the time I moved back here in 98, it was just sort of like this.
It's like this.
It just subsided slowly over time.
And everywhere you went in public, you would get these advertisements about how this supernatural British Columbia is being destroyed everywhere.
It was papered.
The entire province was papered by Rockefeller propaganda about the death of the forests and the predacious man and so on and so forth.
So by about 2000, we had, I remember I interviewed a new premier who was a nominal conservative.
And then when he was replaced, he was replaced by a woman who proceeded to turn British Columbia into Macau, by which I mean we allowed every triad and gang member and cartel to move into Vancouver to launder money through our casinos and through our real estate.
So that is what they did to replace forestry.
and mining and all the other things that we could be doing up there.
We now have a literal crime scene on the streets of Vancouver, a city which my family founded and they were all mad Christians who wanted to create this wonderful world for people that were good.
And now what we have is actual evil in front of us.
People die on the streets, people are stabbed on the streets.
There were never any murders in Vancouver ever.
We have human trafficking coming through our port.
All the precursor chemicals for fentanyl come through our Vancouver port, which is totally corrupted by the CCP.
We have 235 fentanyl factories in this province instead of forestry.
We have no sawmills and we have 235 fentanyl factories.
You must be proud.
Solving the overpopulation problem.
One turn at a time.
So we have the Rockefellers to thank for that.
We really do.
And the Nature Conservancy.
That's who did it to us.
I wanted to ask you about the, I liked your phrase, the...
Was it the iron triangle?
Iron Triangle, yep, yep, yep.
That's it.
Is that one of your coinages?
No, no.
No, it's part of economic theory, but I applied it to the environment instead of to just the sort of bureaucrat, legislator, activists.
That's the thing that creates regulation in every sector.
So what will happen is that you will get paid protesters or activists saying, we want this, we want this, we want this.
The legislators pick up on it.
They institutionalize it through the bureaucracy who says, oh, we need more of this.
So they go down to the activists and they say, active, you know, protest over this.
So that's the same thing in every sector.
But in the environmental business, it's activists, ENGOs, the money people, and bureaucrats.
It's the same thing.
So the people, I imagine that the nature of conservancy, I imagine their parties are a gathering of the great and the good.
I imagine that you've got to be a gazillionaire to attend one of their.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Snobbery reigns at the Nature Conservancy.
Now tell me, do you think the people who fund the Nature Conservancy, to what degree are they aware that this is essentially a kind of Malthusian misanthropic project designed to deracinate people and destroy them?
I don't think anyone knows.
I mean, I haven't been allowed into the mainstream press since I started writing about this.
I mean, I literally have not been allowed.
So nobody knows.
I noticed that in the comments to that piece that three people immediately cancelled their ongoing subscriptions to the Nature Conservancy.
They were donating every month to the Nature Conservancy.
So that's good, three.
Do you think you have readers who are that high-end?
Well, I don't think they give very much.
I think, you know, they give like 25 bucks a month or $150 a year, whatever.
That's money that could go on paying for someone's description on Substack.
Substack.
By people who actually need it, who are doing good things.
It's stressing.
It's distressing.
But I think it's coming to a head.
And I think I've told you this before that I'm sort of rigorously positive because the despair trap is despair is a mortal sin or I think it might be.
I think with the Catholics can tell us what degree of sin that despair is.
It's not a good one.
It's not a good.
But it seems to me that Gen Z is virulently free market, free enterprise, anti-Marxist.
There's a group of people that I started following that are out of Michigan called Promethean Unbound.
And one of their people, these two old dolls who are just geniuses and they've been in the field, when there's a Republican convention there in the Michigan delegation, they're on the ground working in the community, but they're extremely smart.
I mean, they're Chatham House-level intellects.
And one of their people I listened to yesterday who's about in his mid-40s, who's a professor at a university, said that he is actually mobbed on campus by Gen Z men, mostly boys, who are following this new kind of semi-Charlie Kirk slash total revision of the political landscape, total revision of it.
Work on the regulation, get the British Empire out of America, rebuild the cities, get rid of the crime.
I mean, the crime is basically a function of, they say, what the city of London has done to America because what they want is chaos because nobody will invest in chaos.
So that they said that the No Kings protest was in fact a cover-up of the chaos in America's cities that are riven with crime.
So that Mr. Palantir, Alex Karp, made the point this week that all of the major cities in this US are classified as a war zone under a UN definition of a war zone.
There are that many murders, that much violent crime.
And that is deliberately seeded by the financiers of the New World Order in order to break the economy of these cities so that nobody will invest in them.
So that Wall Street, for instance, has $10 trillion sitting in banks that Trump wants them to invest in the American heartland.
He wants them to invest in the cities.
He wants them to build businesses.
He's brought in $20 trillion worth of investments.
And their factories are starting up.
Factories are moving out of Canada.
We just lost a $15 billion industry just moved to the States this week.
This week they just went, okay, we're not close the factory, fire everybody, move to South Carolina.
So that's what's going on there.
And that's what Alex Karp and Promethean Unbound are saying: is that the crime in the cities is deliberately seeded in order to stop economic growth.
Equally, so they say there's one million gang members in the U.S. As many as 50% of them are illegals.
50% of them are illegals.
These million member gangs commit 50% of the violent crime in the country.
50% of those million gang members are illegals.
And they have been brought in specifically to destroy the economic life of the major cities.
That's the theory.
And I'm coming to think, you know, that makes sense.
That's truly devilish.
Well, look, here's the thing.
Unless you understand, and until you understand that the world is run by Satanists who delight in torturing us, impoverishing us, poisoning us, immiserating us, enslaving us, and killing us.
Oh, and sexually abusing us.
Unless you understand that this is what they do, this is what's always behind their plan.
They hate us and they want to replace God with their own kind of debauched version of God's creation.
Until you understand this, you're not in the game.
You don't get anything.
I think that's right.
I was going to say this to you, actually.
Among the people that I sort of among the serious people whose writings I admire, I think you are just about the only one who talks openly about the supernatural war side of things.
So you quote Veronica Swift, for example.
Not many people go there.
I mean, I talked to some very informed people who have lots of fascinating insights on all manner of things, but they tend not to go to the Satanist stuff.
So why do we?
Are we mad or what?
Yeah, maybe.
I mean, it's terrifying.
I actually, after I heard you talking to Veronica, I signed up for her website, which is where she archives all her pieces.
And I read through some of it.
And, you know, it's absolutely gripping and fascinating.
And there's, in terms of evidence, as a trained journalist and thinker, there is so much similar evidence from so many different victims who've come out of the out of the satanic mess that you have to actually take it on board.
But at the same time, James, I come away from it and I think, I can't write about this.
They'll kill me.
Or they won't kill me.
They'll just make my life a living hell.
So, I mean, it's a self-preservation instinct.
Write about it every tenth piece.
I might look at another aspect of it, but I scurry away quite quickly because of, because I'm afraid, I'm afraid of them.
I think they tend to.
They tend to reserve their worst punishments for apostates.
Right, that's yes yes, so they don't.
They set an example in a way.
You're you.
They probably think you're.
You're a sort of nothing right fly, you're nothing.
You don't really, although.
So you, you come from.
You definitely grew up in in bloodlines adjacent yeah, circles.
Yeah, I did, but I think we were just the servant class right, we were the people that you know ran the comp, managed their factories and ran the companies, but we weren't ever allowed anywhere near the inner sanctum.
You know, we were just and, and the people that I grew up with were serious Anglicans, you know, which isn't a kind of desiccated form of Christianity, but they were very, and all the churches, all the private schools were, were Anglican church schools.
So you, you know, you were brought up within this very strict I was brought up and all the people I grew up with were brought up in a very strict Christian world.
Um, but the people over us and they're in in Montreal, you know, the Morgans and the Molsons and the Burks and the Mcconnells uh were, who were massively rich and instead of two or three houses they had five or six houses.
They spent a lot of time in Europe, probably going to satanic rituals and you know, palaces in Switzerland and they, we were very much shut out of that that world.
And when I look at some of those kids um, it looks to me as though they were uh, ritual abuse victims because they were, you know, kind of like that.
They were all kind of were they?
Yeah, they were all.
They were all kind of really screwed up and uh, so you hung out with these screwed up kids or not.
Well, I mean we, it was a.
It was a very um, social world.
You know, we had all the clubs and I mean it was a kind of a year of parties.
So there were i've got to shut my door, hang on yeah yeah, shut your door.
Um, it was uh, it was a world where you, there were a lot of a lot of parties and and there were balls and there were ski.
You know all the whole year had a round of parties.
So you grew up knowing uh, in some sort of way, a thousand people and they were all the same sort of people.
Their fathers were all ceos or, and they all worked in the private market and it you know it was, and they all had familial connections, so there was a lot of cousinages.
Through all of it, you know, you were related, In fact, to almost everybody, some way or another.
Was Carney, did Carney come from that million?
No, no, he's exactly, he's from Northern Alberta.
His father was a teacher, a school teacher.
So he was definitely not part of that world.
He clearly is now, but he wasn't then.
Right.
Because this is one of the endlessly fascinating topics, isn't it?
How do these people?
So do you have to be born in this or can you join?
How do you become part of the big club?
Well, I think it's talent, isn't it?
I mean, they look for talent and then they look for people who are going to submit to their sexual games.
I think it's why they put all those sexual abusers in all the boys' schools.
I mean, so I went to a girls' boarding school in the country and the boys' school was about 30 miles away.
And they had a teacher there.
I think he taught religion and Latin.
And he abused the boys.
And when he was caught, they shipped him to another school in the system.
He wasn't fired in disgrace.
He was just moved on.
So I think that, in fact, what they did was that they would send somebody into a boys' school and find out who was malleable, who had possibilities.
And if that was, if they came across somebody who they could, you know, rape and that he would sort of sit still for it and he was intelligent enough, then they would train him up.
And Carney, because he was a brilliant, I guess, banker, I mean, he's not done anything good for anybody, but he's considered a brilliant banker.
So he obviously, at some point, was captured by in the schools.
Well, did he have that kind of education?
Well, I mean, Canadian education isn't like Britain.
The five or six great universities are all much of a muchness.
They're rigorous and they, you know, if you're brilliant, you're immediately promoted.
And so he obviously tested pretty high.
His father was a teacher.
He probably knew how to take tests.
And at some point, they picked him up.
Yeah, I was thinking, I wanted to pick you up on a remark you made earlier where, or just make an observation on it.
You said Chatham House level intelligent.
And I was thinking, yeah, isn't it interesting that Chatham House is one of the kind of, it's one of the organizations responsible for administering all the evil in the world, isn't it?
And fermenting ideas and sort of ensuring that they are enacted, keeping them in the sort of intellectual space.
So Chatham House in itself isn't intelligent, but it will recruit the brightest and the best.
It will headhunt them, won't it?
Probably at the university level.
So it'll get kids at places like Oxford and Cambridge where they still don't know who they are or really what their values are because their values are probably just essentially inherited from their parents.
They're unformed at that age.
If you can get people before they're formed And get them into the system as administrators, then what you've done is: A, you've got some very able people working for the forces of darkness, but B, you've removed them from the talent pool available to the good side.
Because these people, had they been given a bit more time, might have, well, like me, they might have emerged as people who work towards the good.
I didn't, yeah, probably had they got to me when I was at university, they might have succeeded.
I don't, I don't know, but they didn't, they made a mistake.
No, they probably figured you out pretty seriously early on that you were a bit there was something unpredictable about you and maybe just don't waste the money trying to recruit you.
I don't think they're, I don't, I think they're pretty good at plus, I think they do horoscopes.
I think that they map your horoscope and see where you're going.
Yeah, that's all the occult stuff.
So they, so they would see somebody and they go, they do your chart and then they would trace your bloodline to see whether you came from anything that was likely that they could twist.
And if you had too much of too much virtue in that bloodline, you were just meant to be attacked or you know suppressed in some way.
Actually, before he died, my friend Alexander Wall, we did this podcast together.
And I think actually, if you listen to the podcast, you can actually hear this happening on the podcast.
We did the, you know, each letter of your name corresponds to a number.
And we did the number on my full name, James Mark Court Dellingpole.
And Alexander said, Whoa, you've got, had you been living in the Renaissance, your name would have been considered like, wow, completely a godly, godly, just quite by accident.
The numbers are good.
The numbers are really good.
Maybe they'd have done that.
And yeah, the horoscope, and probably I haven't got enough Satanists in my family.
Yeah.
To the detriment of my career as a member of the Illuminati.
I mean, I'm never going to, I was never going to be a contender, was I?
But James, tell me, this is something I've been wrestling with.
What are they thinking when they get involved in this stuff?
I mean, some of the stories of Veronica Swift and Jesse, Jesse says, how do you say it?
Zabota.
I can't imagine anybody sane wanting to stay in that.
I mean, I would be out so fast, but to the point where you're watching children's skulls being sliced off and eating their brain while they're alive, how is that possible that anyone?
Well, I think there are lots of reasons for that.
One is if you try and get out, you'll die.
Yeah, probably horribly.
Yeah.
Also, you're right.
I mean, I think this is obviously second-hand information because I have no experience of in a world of Satanism.
But as I understand it, these people get sort of sucked into it gradually.
So, for example, Ronald Bernard, who was an Illuminati kind of financier for many years, was initially sucked in through the orgies and the fantastic lifestyle and stuff.
He was quite aware of that.
The Dutch guy?
The Dutch guy.
Yeah.
And then came the point where he was required to participate in murdering children ritually.
And he drew the line at that.
And it took him a long, long time to get out, but eventually he managed to get out.
But I think most people there comes a point where they're in so deep that they don't know how to get out.
It seems to them like they've sold their souls and the only all they can do is go in deeper, even though it's kind of repellent to them.
But at the same time, there are perks, aren't there?
I mean, this is another thing that I think you're one of the few people I speak to gets, that in the demonic realm, although these are subordinate to God and subordinate to Jesus, nevertheless, these demonic entities and satanic princelings, they have power.
They can grant you super strength.
They can grant you Lamborghini.
They can grant you all the sex you want.
They can give you stuff.
And I think these people sort of rationalize it.
Well, look, if I want a place at the top table, I've got to kill the kids.
I couldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it.
But then you and I haven't chosen.
So are they going for immortality?
I mean, is that part of the transhumanist thing that they think that they are going to be able to live forever?
That they can, so they will never have to.
I mean, do they even believe that there is an afterlife or is I would have to have convinced themselves on some level that their side is the winning side.
And.
And they will have used all manner of sort of tortured reasoning to meet this conclusion.
I suppose they'll probably think, well, the Bible's wrong.
God isn't all he's cracked up to be.
Yeah, so you would have had to take on all those beliefs over time as they pull you into this world.
And of course, you know, you do get all of these perks, which are, I mean, they're hollow.
The perks are hollow.
I try to think of what it must be like to live inside Hillary Clinton's head.
It must be a deeply unpleasant place, and she must be on a lot of drugs.
I mean, how else would she manage to get through her days if she is who she said, who they say she is, which is, you know, the mother of darkness?
Of course, but I think we're kind of thinking, we're overthinking here.
And I think I'm going to describe something to you, which you've experienced and I've experienced.
And it might help us understand what their thoughts are.
In my career as a journalist, I had access to some pretty cool stuff, like free holidays, getting access to famous people, rich people, doing stuff, exciting stuff that most people don't get to do.
And I don't mean sort of snorting cocaine off the buttocks of the, I just mean stuff like, I don't know, going around Bran's hatch race course with the world as a sidecar passenger, with the world sidecar champion, diving with great white sharks and being paid to do it, hanging out in Hollywood with Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, this kind of stuff.
And when you're part of, when you get a taste of that world, it's like, it's like crack, isn't it?
I mean, it's like you feel You're special and you've been granted access to this special world and you kind of enjoy it.
And you can, you like being ushered to the front of the velvet rope opening for you in the club.
Yeah.
Not having to, not having to wait like all the kind of the grunts in the queue.
And I think that's what it is.
It's people like being in the big club.
And once they're in, they have a taste of the big club, they can't bear the idea of being a normal person.
Yeah.
And what they do is they think, well, okay, so what do I do stay in the big club?
And they realize, well, there's certain unpleasant stuff you've got to do and certain tedious stuff you've got to do, like making all the one-eye symbols and posing for photographs with making 666 signs and stuff.
And yeah, there's these parties you have to go to where it's a bit distasteful.
But it's what you've got to do to be in the big club.
Everyone else is everyone's doing it.
Yeah.
I think that's how it works.
I guess that's it.
And you're just not developed.
I mean, I found my time in that world a bit anxiety producing.
So I didn't get the full pleasure of it.
I was just sort of, you know, terrifying many, many times.
I mean, but yeah, I mean, and it certainly impresses other people that I gave a lunch for Princess Diana.
And that I just found the whole thing kind of terrifying from beginning to end.
What was she like?
She was lovely.
I mean, I guess I met her twice.
And then at that point, I was hanging out around outside with a couple of guys waiting for her.
And she came running up the steps alone and looked at me and looked at them and then kind of winked at me and smiled because they were hot.
And then she went into.
So she was lovely.
I actually didn't curtsy, which was weird.
I just found I couldn't do it.
And I rushed reasoned that I was working for the Americans, so I didn't have to.
So I didn't.
And she noticed that and she lifted an eyebrow.
Did she?
Yeah.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Interesting.
You know, I'm a Spencer.
I'm related to her.
I'm a cousin several times over.
Did you call her cous?
Well, I didn't know that then because I wasn't aware of the sort of long history of my family.
So I had no idea.
But I know now.
And I wish I'd known it because I was trying to get an interview with her.
And that's why Time Inc. was paying me to give a lunch for Princess Diana.
Who else came?
Who else came to?
Anyone I would have heard of?
To the lunch?
At lunch?
Yeah.
No, it was just me and a Catholic women's charity.
It was through a friend of the Queen Mother, Lady Torfiken, whose granddaughter or daughter was my social secretary.
And so she was introducing me into royal circles, which was, it was interesting in a way, you know.
Did you get any sense that A, she was the illegitimate child of a Rothschild?
Because I don't think El Spencer was really her dad, was he?
And B, did you get any sense that she knew that she was going to be sacrificed in a Merovingian blood ritual in the troubles?
Well, I don't, I mean, my sense of her was that she was, she was, she lived in a kind of subdued terror.
And she had built this rather glittering persona to mask that terror.
I can, I, I mean, I'm thinking that because that's what I do or have done in the past.
But I always saw her as an innocent.
I guess that's part of her vast appeal is that she seemed to be an innocent soul captured by a rather dreadful operation.
Yeah, was what was she terrified of?
She knew what the roles were.
I don't know whether she's suspected or not.
And, I mean, Earl Spence...
It's a lizard people.
Hmm?
She called them the lizards.
Yes, well, that's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, they are.
I mean, aren't they?
They're devoid of empathy, which is what they train them to do.
I mean, that's what happens.
So you get to my brother's boarding school.
The math teacher decides you're a likely prospect.
So he invites you up to his room at night for a little private tutoring.
And then the sexual sort of games begin.
And if you freak out, you're discarded.
And if you are interested in having a relationship with this elder person who's going to carry you along through the whole system, then you're marked out.
So I guess what that does is it eventually over time diminishes your empathy and your sense of empathy.
But she, to me, was always sort of a wide-eyed deer caught by these awful people.
I mean, but I don't know.
I mean, I never got close enough to her to talk to her.
I talked to her.
I mean, I took her ladies in waiting out for lunch.
I went to dozens of bloody parties and lunches and so on.
Or to try and try and trap her.
I mean, as a get the interview.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you didn't get it.
You failed.
Failed.
Failed miserably.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who was your best?
Your best coup, would you say?
Well, getting Nelson Mandela's autobiography for the company was my shining triumph at the corporation.
And after it, I was offered anything I wanted.
Yeah, it was like I was taken out for lunch at Claridge's or Claridge's and offered whatever I wanted.
And what did you want?
Nothing.
I wanted to quit.
I respect that.
I think I'd feel the same way.
Well, after all, you were working for Satan.
I mean, Luce, Henry Luce.
He was true.
And they were Rockefeller adjacent, weren't they?
Oh, yeah, totally married into the whole thing.
Totally, 100%.
So, yeah.
I mean, it was a very unpleasant place to work, but it had great perks, that's for sure.
And I met a lot of people, and I would give lunches, and I had my own butler and my own dining room, and endless amounts of money to spend, and I could go anywhere and do anything.
And after seven years, I'd had enough of it.
I didn't want to know anymore.
I wanted to write, so I quit.
I left.
Yeah.
You are selling me that lifestyle, actually.
I think I would like a butler and a private dining room and lots of money to spend.
Yeah, but the anxiety that comes along with it is a beast.
It's a beast.
And also, the thing that you and I have discovered, and most of our viewers and listeners will have discovered too, is that when we were at the peaks of our careers in this milieu, we used to imagine that the reason we got paid a reasonable amount and got all these perks was just because we were really talented and we deserved it.
And what we didn't realize is that the real reason this money is sloshing around in the media and goes to columnists and stuff is the same reason that sports personalities get paid money and news presenters get paid good amounts of money.
It's because we are useful to the system of evil, that we are doing a bit unwittingly to promote their message.
I mean, journalism being, I now realize, a massive lie machine, come brainwashing exercise, come divide and rule.
Oh, yeah, totally.
100%.
And it's really good at it as well.
I mean, hats off to the media.
It's very good at persuading people that it's their friend and shooting all over them simultaneously.
Yeah.
And, you know, most of the editors that I worked with in Canada who were serious and in the States, you know, they thought they were serving the good.
They believed in their ideas.
I would imagine by the time you get the editorship of a major national broadsheet, you're kind of starting to suspect that you've got to do some rather ugly things.
But most of the editors that I worked for were true believers in the globalist cause, in the sort of underlying Marxism of everything, the suppression of...
They were pro or anti this?
Yeah.
They were pro-yeah, they were pro-verything that was being sold.
So nobody doubted any of it.
I just found it physically unpleasant to live in that world and be among them.
It was like, I guess it was a bit like every time I had to, like, I had to go to New York and spend three days at headquarters, I would sort of brace myself.
And it was like walking among the lizard people because everybody was about, you know, they wanted to get rid of you.
I mean, the competition at that level was so fierce and so brutal that any mistake or any weakness would be seized upon and exploited to the max.
I mean, you had to fight for everything.
And people would just come at you for no reason whatsoever.
You know, they would just try to destroy you for no reason other than that they wanted to destroy you.
So there was nothing fun about it.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that was certainly the culture at the Daily Mail, which was the, which was the best paid of the newspapers in the UK.
The Mail and the Sunday Times both had horrible, toxic cultures.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly that.
But you know what?
I think possibly you're letting these people off too lightly.
I'm, for example, I there's one national news paper editor that at least that I know of whose name appeared on the Reigns list.
You know what the Reigns list is?
Yeah, yeah.
On the Reigns list.
So somebody involved in satanic, I think it's ritual satanic abuse.
It may just be routine paedophilia, but I think it tends to have satanic ritual abuse connections.
And there's another newspaper editor that I can think of and a columnist.
And I, with my open eyes now, I read his take on issues like the Ukraine and Gaza and the spin he puts on these things.
And I think there is no way that you are the kind of free-thinking intellectual conservative that I used to think of you.
You are so compromised.
You are so it can only be they've got compromise on you.
I cannot believe that you could be this much of a shill for causes which are abominable, satanic, frankly.
So I don't know.
I think by the time you get to, it's like every profession.
Yeah, of course, you're not.
When you get to that level, you're in the big club.
I concede, definitely.
100%.
Yeah.
I just wasn't aware of it at the time.
All I felt was: is there a way that I can still write and be as far away from these people as possible?
That was my goal.
And I mean, I actually went to Bermuda, which was about as far away as I could get from the kingdom.
And now I'm as far away from it, the same thing.
And I would not, I don't even, I don't even want to go to New York or London and talk to editors.
It's just the idea of it is beyond unpleasant.
So, yeah.
Well, you found, I'd say you found, okay, so you haven't got your butler and you haven't got your limitless expense.
Expense account?
No, expense funds.
I remember those days, expense accounts.
Wow.
They were great.
I used to buy people cases of champagne for Christmas.
Cases.
Cases of champagne for Christmas.
Well, who?
Well, just anybody who'd helped me during the year.
I mean, I don't know how what inflation has done to the price of champagne, but I imagine that even back in the day, a case of champagne must have been paying.
Yeah, but I mean, it was expected of me.
I was told to spend money because if I didn't spend money, they would reduce my spending.
To spend money meant you were involved in London society.
So you had to do it.
You know, I had to.
I was reading a piece.
I do occasionally dip into the newspapers just because my wife's reading a newspaper next to me and I sometimes want to keep her company.
And of course, I'm always ending up spitting at these idiots writing rubbish, writing propaganda for the enemy.
But I was reading a post about the death of EMI, the record label, which I mean couldn't have died too soon.
It was propaganda, like all these things.
They're all part of the intelligence services, ultimately.
And it was taken over by one of those vulture capitalists called Terry Hans or something or whatever.
Anyway, he was going through the accounts and he saw there was an annual annual £200,000 was spent on fruit and flowers.
He said, well, this is a ridiculous amount of money to be spending on fruit and flowers.
And it was explained to him, no, this was the budget for the cocaine that was given to the ANR men and stuff.
And he scrapped this budget.
And this was considered the beginning of the end for that label.
He didn't understand the culture.
Which again, it's how the world that you and I have left, how it operates.
And at the time when you're part of it, I mean, I would have thought it was a very reasonable thing that record executives should be given a cocaine budget.
And as a journalist, I would have been given limitless expenses.
I wouldn't have had any moral problems with that.
And that is how they get you.
That is how they reduce your screw with your moral compass.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that must be it.
I don't know why I, I guess because I was brought up around a lot of money.
I mean, my family didn't have inherited wealth because of my both my grandfathers went bankrupt during the Depression.
Which was organized by the enemy, by the way.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it just broke.
Yeah, absolutely.
In any case, I was already jaded.
There was nothing that seduced me about having a lot of stuff because the people that I grew up with who had a lot of stuff were not happy.
You know, there was a lot of misery and competition and status measuring and backbiting and gossip and cruelty within that world.
So, which I, at the time, being a kid, attributed to the fact that they had too much money or they didn't deserve what they had.
They weren't, I don't know.
But in any case, I never really wanted to be part of that world because all I observed was unhappiness.
And so when I got back into it, which was absolutely critical to my development as a writer, that I spent, what, 15 or 20 years in that world where I could observe the way things actually worked at quite a high level.
I wouldn't be the writer I am today had I not endured that.
But I think when I went, when I left after seven, I spent seven years in lower Manhattan and then in Soho and worked in film there.
And then I spent seven years.
And then it was like when I went to Bermuda, it was like I was an invalid, that I had been damaged so badly by World of competition and glamour and ambition that I almost needed seven years to recover from it physically because it had just destroyed my being in a very serious way.
It's like eaten holes through my being.
It corroded me.
And I needed seven years of living in this beautiful little house with the man who loved me most in all the world, who I'd known since I was a kid, and with his three children who were all these beautiful blonde fairy children on the beach and the quiet and the normality and the protection of being in the upper middle class world where cotton wool bolsters everything.
And I was like, I was like, had been my spirit had been destroyed by that world.
So I, you know, when I look at my grandchildren, they say, well, you know, my eldest granddaughter is about to graduate from university.
She's a physicist.
And she says, well, I'm going to take a year off and I'm going to go around and I'm going to clean particle accelerators with plasma.
And I think, yes, now that is a virtuous.
No, I'm not.
I mean, just as a job, as a job, she's not going to be in that world that I was in.
She's not going to go into this viciously competitive and glamorous world of power.
She's a scientist.
She's going to live in a world of science.
She's going to clean particle accelerators with plasma as her grandmother.
CERN.
Have you not known?
And I do, I know.
Occasionally I bring that up and she goes, whoa.
I send her things and I send her the stuff about zero-point energy and so on.
But right now, I just want to protect her innocence.
I want to protect their innocence.
So we, you and I, and all of our compatriots in this wonderful world of independent media and thought, are trying to build a healthy world around us.
And this may be, this may be an absolutely fruitless task.
You know, we may fail.
Chances are we're going to totally fail.
But at least you and I and all of our many friends are trying to build a saner world.
that's yeah what we are definitely um sorry I've got to ask you what's it like living you were seven years in Bermuda yeah Yeah.
I wrote two books.
Did you?
Yes.
Two books on Bermuda.
No, no, I wrote The Monkey Puzzle Tree, which was published by Liz Calder at Bloomsbury.
And then I wrote another book that was not published.
That I still wait until I retire to work on that.
But just briefly, what's it like living in Bermuda?
Well, I mean, you know, it was very beautiful.
It's very beautiful.
I mean, the average, it never gets too, well, it gets pretty hot in the summer.
And I would come home, but in the winter, it was always 70 degrees and sunny.
And occasionally there would be Atlantic gales that would blow in, and they were very beautiful.
But Bermuda is very small, and it was settled by the English, right?
There were no black people on the island.
It was always, it was a shipwreck.
So it's a British protectorate.
It's very sane.
Its major industry is family trusts.
So people domicile their money there.
And because it's so English, it's sedate.
It's sedate.
It's ordered.
It's sensible.
Also, because it's so rich, it's 65% black.
So everybody, but because it's so rich, everybody's got a house, a job, and a car.
So there's very little racial tension.
There was at the time that I lived there very little drug activity.
There was one block on the other side of town that had drug disasters happening.
There was a lot of intermingling of the races, a lot of intermarriage.
So it was peaceful and I really needed it.
I mean, I'm sure there are lots of things bad about it.
But I didn't see them at the time.
All I knew was that I was turning into mulch and I had to leave.
But I mean, I couldn't live somewhere without hills, mountains.
The ocean is very seductive.
Is it?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes, and everybody leaves all the time.
I mean, I went home, I came back to British Columbia every summer and rented a house on the island.
And it's because it's 500 miles offshore, people would go to North Carolina for a weekend of shopping.
So, yeah.
Okay, yeah, fair enough.
And what's the shark situation like there?
I never ran into any sharks.
Nobody ever said anything about it.
Okay, fine.
Yeah.
I mean, you probably find it so boring, but I was living with Willie.
He had a reinsurance company, which is a big industry there.
So within that world, it was very protected.
It was, you know, a cotton wool world, which I needed.
You know, I really needed to restore my faith.
I was thinking if this podcast has a, this particular discussion has a kind of overarching theme.
It's what do you get when you do when you live in sort of God world and what do you do when you live in devil world?
And face it, devil world is superficially a lot more exciting and it gives you many better anecdotes that like doing debauch stuff.
And I was thinking about this.
I was thinking, I've got these friends that the sort of people that the English equivalent of your Canada fast set.
And I'm thinking of some of their children are supermodels and they were probably, and the parents were in the right clubs at Oxford, you know, they were in sort of Piers Gaveston and stuff.
And they're beautiful people and they have exotic lives with drinking expensive wine and going to exciting holiday destinations.
But there's no room for at no point in their lives are they thinking, how can I live a godly life?
Or how can I, how can I, it's actually rejection of that.
Their life is transgressive.
It's about sort of doing kinky things at outrageous parties and having Sort of multiple relations and debauchery and buggery and stuff that stuff that probably the devil really likes.
And what have we got?
We've got the time that James was in the gym and he helped out a God's God gives you much, the rewards for living a godly life are much, much, much, much more subtle than being given superpowers and endless sexual partners by demons.
Yeah.
And yet, oh, I mean, this afternoon, before I did this podcast with you, do you know what I did?
I went to the walled garden with the dog and I dug up some potatoes that I planted earlier in the year and they're Charlotte potatoes and I was very pleased to see that they had not been eaten by worms.
And I walked back and then I made a cup of tea and I did this podcast.
But this is a much better life than sorting cocaine off buttocks of yeah, I mean that world is essentially pretty shallow, hey?
You know, there's not, there's, I mean, you, you, you can't really walk around with much of a sort of developed intellect and enjoy that world, I don't think.
You can be a relatively simple person in that world, but and you can be an ambitious person who thinks that they're doing good work, but I have noticed that none of these people age particularly well.
By the adrenochrome that they take.
Maybe that's it.
Maybe that's it.
But they did do their.
I tell this story of going to my best friend, boarding school roommates Lake House a few years ago and going to a party with people who, the husbands of the women were all extremely very, very successful executives in the States in very competitive industries.
And I guess they were probably in their 70s because she married someone older than her.
And they had so many diseases.
I mean, they were literally walking hulks.
They just gutted themselves for ambition and money for 40 years.
And they had health problems that were beyond anything that you and I can really imagine in terms of sitting in the room with somebody that was that broken and that, you know, still walking, but really walking death.
So that so that the health implications of living that life as one ages are terrible.
They're terrible.
So your last 10 or 15 years are, no matter how much money you have and how many things you're invited to, are deeply, deeply, deeply miserable.
Except, I think the tier above them, the super evil, super, super, super evil.
Look at Rupert Murdoch.
Look how long he's lived.
Look at, yeah, he gets Jerry Hall to be his wife.
Look at Warren Buffett.
Look at the other guy who was with Warren Buffett.
They seem to.
Yeah, they go on and on, don't they?
They go on and on.
Maybe they're just genetic anomalies or they're, you know, they think adrenochrome.
I'm sure it is.
You really?
Don't you think adrenochrome eventually guts you?
I'm sure there's every drug has a kickback that's worse than the pleasure.
That's true.
I can't even imagine it, James.
It's just such a terrible thing.
It's a terrible world, Elizabeth.
After all, Satan is the god of this world, and obviously he's going to so arrange it that things are really bad.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's really, it's been lovely talking to you, as always.
And like, tell us where we can find welcome to absurdist down.
You'll write your substack.
Yeah, that's it.
That's my thing.
Absurdistan on Substack.
it's good by the way are you finding I an odd thing's happened to me recently do you Substack had clearly been artificially limiting my traffic.
It was just like plateauing for ages.
And everyone across Substack of our persuasion was complaining about similar things.
But recently I've been permitted to go up slightly.
And I'm wondering.
Yeah, me too.
Isn't it weird?
Yeah.
They've just been blocked.
It may be that the powers that be are sort of thinking, well, maybe we need a little bit of this alternative stuff.
But yeah, I totally noticed that.
I've totally noticed that.
Or maybe they're just thinking, we'll toy with them.
We'll give them the illusion that they are, we're going to let them go up and then we're going to snatch it away from them.
Maybe, eh?
That's more likely.
Yeah.
It's fascinating that I'd love to know more about the censorship industrial complex, but I think you have to actually be in it to understand it.
So nobody's going to tell us secrets.
I mean, I've noticed Facebook has been the one that I've been longest on.
And though I have been blocked there, occasionally I break through.
It may be that the pressure, the control system hasn't completely locked down yet.
And it may not ever be able to be completely locked down.
That's what I think.
I love your optimism.
Yes, exactly.
But even although I smile, I'm laughing in the face of death and misery.
Yes, exactly.
That's what you have to do.
Okay.
Thank you, everyone.
Yeah, check out Elizabeth Substack.
It's great.
She's really good on the eco stuff, the Eco Nazis.
And if you don't believe in Eco Nazis, you certainly will by the time you read Elizabeth's essays.
The Nature Conservancy.
If you are a subscriber to the Nature Conservancy, desist and give your money to me and to Elizabeth.
It's a much better cause.
We are much more eco-friendly and we care about nature more than the Nature Conservancy.
Also, if you've enjoyed this.
We're the future.
We are the future.
We are the future.
If you've enjoyed this podcast, which obviously, hello, obviously you have because it's great.
I mean, it really is a good pod.
I know it.
I know I'm not being I don't believe in false modesty.
You should support me.
I mean, I love you listeners and viewers, but you're not as favorite as the ones who actually make the effort and stump up the money and become paid subscribers.
So please do that on Substack while they're letting you through the net.
Just buy me a coffee if you want to do that.
You can still support me on Patreon if you want.
And support my sponsors.
And thank you for listening and see you next time.
