Gregory Wrightstone is Executive Director of the CO2 Coalition, which provides facts, resources and information about the vital role carbon dioxide plays in our environment.
He had a 35-year career in the energy industry and has authored or co-authored more than 200 papers, publications and commentaries on climate change and energy. He is the bestselling author of Inconvenient Facts https://inconvenientfacts.xyz
https://co2coalition.org
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Welcome to the Delling Pod, Gregory Wrightstone of the CO2 Coalition.
Now Gregory, this is going to be a bit of a busman's holiday for me.
I don't believe we've met, but we could easily have done, because for about 10 years of my life, I spent a lot of time in the climate wars trenches, going to heartland conferences across the US, and hanging out with a lot of people who are involved with the CO2 coalition, people like
Tony Heller and, um, who else?
Oh, uh, your, um, my brain's gone.
Will Happer.
Will, Will Happer.
I did a, I did a podcast with him.
He was absolutely brilliant.
Yeah, he was, I spent the day with him yesterday.
He was at our Arlington office, spent the day with our staff.
He's quite possibly the most noble and intelligent man you or I will ever meet.
I agree with that.
He's eminently civilized and super intelligent.
It strikes me that in my time in the climate trenches, I encountered some of the most knowledgeable, eminently civilized and decent people I've encountered in my life.
Okay, so it's not proof of anything, but I think it's indicative, perhaps, of the division between the two sides in the climate wars.
One side are people who've been prepared to sacrifice their careers, lose tenure, face public ridicule just for speaking the truth.
The other side, as the climate gate emails exposed, are in the business of, well, juicy freebies abroad to endless conferences on corrupting and fiddling the data.
On smearing the good name of anyone who dares oppose to them.
Of torturing the data till it screams.
I mean, in terms of right and wrong, our side ought to have won this one years ago.
But yet, we find ourselves still on the back foot.
Well, I agree with you.
We're silenced.
We're censored.
And that's what we have to put up with.
But I'm very optimistic.
I feel strongly that we are, we're not winning yet, but I see a huge movement towards common sense and climate realism.
I see it every day, and at least here in the United States, we see Major newspapers coming out with editorials questioning net zero.
When I just talk to the average Joe or Jane on the street, that has nothing to do with me as I travel around airports.
People are thirsty.
For the information that we provide.
There's a huge skepticism that's lurking in the back of people's brains.
They just don't quite buy that there's a climate crisis, but they don't really know why.
And that's our job here at the CO2 Coalition, is to provide the facts, the science, and the data that gives them that information.
I tell you, if you've not seen it, I've got a I'm going to do a little self-promotion.
If you have a smartphone app, I have a wonderful app related to my first book.
Just go to the App Store or Google Play and search for Inconvenient Facts.
It has 60 wonderful charts and you can have this information in the palm of your hand.
That way If you're at holiday dinner and your idiot nephew Billy tells you that, well, Uncle James, did you know polar bears are going extinct?
And you could pull this app out and you go, wait a minute, Billy, here's fact number 53.
And that's actually the fact number.
And it shows 60 years of polar bear population history from Susan Crockford.
And so that's the power that we have here, because you can't carry a book around with you all the time.
You can carry your... everyone has their smartphone in the palm of their hand, so it's inconvenient facts.
It's free.
I think it's been downloaded.
We're going close to 200,000 downloads of it.
And so those are the things we want to do is to arm people with this information.
And it's, I, again, I'm very, very optimistic.
I just, just about everywhere I go and huge percentage of the people that I talk to, uh, are welcome the information I provide.
I'm, I'm not even blowing smoke up your bottom, Gregory, when I say that that is a really, really, really good idea.
Even in my chats on the internet with people who are completely on our side, quite a few of them Lack the the solid information that you're providing on that app.
It's a really it's a really the number of times I get people saying to me James.
Can you point me to some killer facts that I can use to show not my idiot nephew Billy.
I think that's more an American thing.
But but but to show this incredibly annoying friend colleague at work who insists that the world is doomed unless we bomb our economy back to the dark ages in the name of Combating co2.
It's all rubbish and That the evidence is is clear-cut I think that that was one of the things that really struck me in my period in the climate wars and I'll tell you why I left in a moment, but but but that It's not even moot It's it's not even though well, hang on the the warmists and the alarmists have kind of sort of got an argument They have no arguments at all I mean, have you encountered anything they've ever said which holds water in any way?
Give me a minute.
Boy, I can't come up with any right now.
You're right.
I tell you what, I bet you, I believe, give me five minutes with any, just about anybody.
I won't, you know, there's some of the radicals you can't convince, but just give me five minutes and a few charts.
I can convince just about anybody that, or at least to question what they've been told.
Maybe they're not quite convinced, but I've got about five charts that are really impactful.
People go, huh, I didn't know that.
What's that from?
And then they find out it's from NASA or NOAA or Hadcroot or wherever it's from.
It's basic government data.
It's hard to question.
Unfortunately, I lack the technological skills for you to be able to post up charts and things on this.
I mean, we probably could, but I just don't know how to do it.
I haven't planned for it.
Imagine I'm in an elevator and it's quite a long elevator.
It's going to the top of a really tall building and I'm a fervent climate alarmist.
My name is Greta, and you need to convince me that everything I believe about global warming is nonsense.
What would you say to me?
First, I'd show you the chart of carbon dioxide through time, going back to the pre-Cambrian era, a billion years ago.
And And look at where we're just since the Paleozoic era, 650 million years ago.
That data for the CO2 is the average.
We're a little over 400.
I'm not going to go into a whole lot of numbers for you, but we're a little over 400 parts per million today.
The average throughout Earth's history is 2,600 parts per million.
So I would show you a chart of carbon dioxide showing that today's carbon dioxide levels are near historically low levels.
And so historically, we're actually CO2 impoverished compared to Earth's history.
Earth and its plants and animals thrived at much higher levels of carbon dioxide.
And also we can point during that chart, at what point did plants evolve?
They evolved at about 2,500 parts per million, again, six times what we are today.
And so these plants evolved needing much higher carbon dioxide levels to optimally grow.
And so again, we're suboptimal levels for crop growth.
The increase that we've had, I would also, maybe then the next chart I would show would be, oh, Anyone of a number of long-term temperature versus CO2 to show that what's the relationship through time between carbon dioxide and temperature?
And what you find is looking at decades, hundreds, thousands, or millions of years, there is no correlation between carbon dioxide increase or decrease and temperature increase or decrease.
There just isn't.
If you look through the last 10,000, 8,000 years, We found that we've been a general temperature decline over the last 8,000 years.
Meanwhile, CO2 has increased.
How does that happen?
For example, when we started increasing CO2 in the post-World War II era, We went into a 33-year temperature decline.
So we see just as we started increasing CO2, it ended in the late 70s, but 33 years of cooling.
Or we could look at the central England temperature record, which is the longest thermometer record available.
And show that showing that the warming started again actually in the we know what year it was was the year 1695 in the late 17th century, the coldest period probably in the last 10,000 years and we've been warming and fits and starts ever since.
Uh, but CO2 was flat, and so what they're telling you is, okay, so we've been warming for more than 300 years, but look at this.
The first 250 years of that were naturally driven.
And they'll tell you then, oh well, that's all changed in the middle of the 20th century.
Now it's being driven by CO2.
No!
The same natural forces, whatever they are, and I don't know for sure, it's probably solar, but those same natural forces are driving temperatures up and down just like they have for Hundreds, thousands and millions of years.
They didn't cease in 1951 when we started adding huge amounts of CO2.
Yeah.
So, there are a number of charts that are really impactful.
I would also throw crop growth.
Probably the most effective one is corn, but we could look at my new book, I look at the top eight crops in the world, and man, they're just breaking records year after year after year.
There are a number of things that go into that.
Technology, increasing nitrogen fertilizer, also hugely beneficial would be warming, because the warming means we have longer growing seasons.
Killing Frost, stop earlier in the spring, arrive later in the fall, and that's all hugely beneficial.
And then that's all turbocharged by increasing carbon dioxide.
So these are just a few of the charts I would show on that elevator ride to Greta as she gets off on the 35th floor.
And, uh, but, but there's... And then she jumps off because she's so depressed that she realizes everything she's believed is a lie.
I wouldn't wish that on her.
But yeah, yeah, I'm like, I'm not gonna touch that.
Try and stay out of that.
No, we love, we love Greta.
We're sure that she believes totally in what she says.
But yeah, um, it's, we don't even need to demonstrate, do we, what it is that causes, causes warming and cooling.
It's, it's not really, It's not really a matter of public policy concern at any rate.
All we need to do is demonstrate that CO2 is not the demon it's been set up as being.
Right.
It's not the Earth's thermostat.
CO2 is not the thermostat that we're dialing up or down.
You're right.
That's the important thing.
What it is that's actually driving temperature up and down Like I say, it's probably solar, and you'd probably agree with that, but, you know, it's hard, it's, there's so many things that go into it.
We've got, for example, John Clauser is the current Nobel Laureate in physics.
We just brought him on as a board member at the CO2 Coalition, and one of the, just one of the many distinguished Eminent scientists that we have here and you know he believes the clouds are are hugely underrated and just and he's you know the more i talk to him the more i. He's got a strong point is just go out.
This afternoon, if it's a cloudy day or if there's sunlight, well, when a cloud goes over, think about that.
Temperature can drop 8 to 10 degrees just in a moment when that cloud goes over.
So think about what that, when with increasing clouds, you're blocking and reflecting a huge amount of solar radiation coming in that would otherwise warm the planet.
And he contends that There have been changes in the amount of cloud cover, which necessarily would affect Earth's atmospheric temperature.
Because again, these solar rays are coming in and reflecting off clouds rather than striking the Earth's surface.
And when they strike the Earth's surface, as you know, it's re-radiated as infrared rays.
are the warming element of greenhouse gases.
And of course, the number one greenhouse gas too, the other chart I would show people, is that the greenhouse gas that controls everything is what you know is water vapor, which, you know, varies.
It might be 80 to 95% of the greenhouse effect is dominated by water vapor.
So, which does rather invite the question, how is it that CO2 was able to be demonized in this way?
I mean, I know that Arrhenius, a physicist in the late 19th century, theorized that there might be a connection between CO2 and warming.
And then I think, what was it, Tyndall had something to say about this.
But it seems to me that, and then obviously Al Gore, that famous scientist, He leapt onto this, claiming that this is what his Harvard tutor Roger Revelle had told him in a landmark lecture that changed his understanding forever.
But it seems to me that the number of scientists pushing this has been very few, and yet it has become the dominant strain of thinking across Across academe across politics.
So so how how did this happen?
How did a lie get promoted in this way?
Well, if you were going to pick something to bring down, I get asked that a lot, you know, you're basically you're asking why are they doing this?
What's their motivation?
And honestly, James, I I can't I get asked this a lot.
My stock answer is, I'm a scientist.
I can't look inside men's and women's souls to see what their motivation is.
I'm being told, I ask people, you know, every single person in your audience listening to this is just as qualified as I am to tell me why they're doing it.
What is it?
Control?
Money?
Funding?
Is it the destruction of the Western world?
The destruction of capitalism?
I don't know.
Or all the above.
I don't know what it is, but as a scientist, my job is to say, okay, here's what they're telling you and here's what the science tells us.
Yeah.
And time after time after time.
I really got into this.
You've been in this a lot longer than I have.
I got into really deep into climate change.
Oh, Eight years ago, as a geologist, it was my own... I knew that some of what we're being told about climate change was wrong, because I'm a geologist.
It was really ocean acidification.
I knew that was wrong.
Yes.
Okay, that's easy.
It's never happened before.
The oceans have never been acid.
They've always been very basic and alkaline, and it's never happened.
So I knew that was wrong, and I suspected other things were wrong.
So I took a deep dive, and I said, you know what?
I'm not going to trust anybody.
I'm going to go back and look at the base data myself, and I'm going to see what it actually tells me.
And I did that, and frankly, what I found angered me.
I found scientists misrepresenting data.
Lying, flat-out lying to people, cherry-picking data, fabricating data, misrepresenting, and it was just, as a scientist, it angered me, and it really drove me to write my first book, which was Inconvenient Facts, which was published seven years ago, actually last week, and it was still a number one bestseller on Amazon last week, after seven years, because it's been so
My books and my new book, I write for the common man, the common Joe and Jane on the street that aren't scientists.
I don't dumb the science down, but I try and make it understandable.
And that's why it's been such a popular book for so many years.
And so, my mission is to provide this information in clearly understandable charts, because a picture is worth a thousand words, make it understandable, so that people look at it and go, huh, yeah, that's right.
And that's my goal.
Yeah.
I'm envious of your sales.
So, do you know how many you've sold?
I've printed close to 90,000.
Nice work.
Yeah, you know how difficult that is.
Impossible.
I mean, you've achieved the impossible because you are doing it in the teeth of an industry which does not... Bookshops do not want your book on the shelves.
Publishers do not want to publish it.
Nobody wants to publish against the narrative.
I've got some great stories of just...
Influential people that have picked up my book somehow and then adopted me as their special project.
There's a young black conservative in the United States, Candace Owens.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I love Candace.
Oh, she's wonderful.
And she found my book and my brother I work with, he monitors my sales and Marketing and things.
And he says, what'd you do?
He called me up on Saturday.
Your book's exploding.
And it wasn't until Sunday that somebody told me that Candace Owens, she picked up my book, Inconvenient Facts, and she says, this book has changed everything I believe about climate change.
And then she said, every person in this audience needs to go buy the book.
And of course that just drove sales.
And I've had other people like that, uh, that, Just have pushed the sales and it's it's I owe a lot of people a lot of things, but it's this is my mission.
I think this is why I was put here on Earth.
Is to provide the information to people.
And then my new book, I just got my new books in.
This just arrived yesterday.
A Very Convenient Warming.
How Modest Warming and More CO2 are Benefiting Humanity.
This book just arrived in our offices yesterday.
I've got the first pre-publication versions of them.
The big publication, I've got 20,000 being printed as a first run, which is pretty bold to print that many initially.
Because most, as you know, most books would be lucky to sell 8,000 or 9,000 on a good run.
Yeah, yeah.
I certainly didn't sell that many copies of Watermelons, although I do get a lot of requests now.
For people in exactly the position you described at the beginning, People are hungry for hard data that confirms their hunch.
Because I think most people have a gut feeling that all the climate stuff is woo.
They just don't have the... Because after all, the media is constantly lying to them.
So where do they go?
A lot of the internet is compromised.
It's difficult.
Yeah.
Well, this book, it's... I've got a... The website I have is www.convenientwarming.com I'll put the link below, don't worry.
Sorry.
Okay.
Or just Google convenient warming and it pops right up.
It's been, it's a website and it may be available for pre-order later today.
Uh, this is all happening in real time right now.
Uh, my, I'd have to say Gregory, you Americans are so good at, at, at, um, selling yourselves.
I know it's not a criticism.
It's just I wish I were better at it.
I wish I had your skills.
No, I'm sure it'll it'll do well.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'll stop selling.
No, no, but so it's interesting that a lot of the scientists who are skeptical about the whole climate alarmism things are in fields like physics, sort of a proper hard science, and geology.
I suppose the geologists, you've got the sense of the timescale.
Yeah.
I just had that conversation yesterday with, you know, Dr. William Happer, emeritus professor of physics from Princeton.
We did a joint interview live in a studio in the area.
And we had that conversation.
I said, well, I think that of all the scientists, I think geology and the geologists are the most skeptical.
And he said, well, I might disagree.
He thought it was physics.
Of course, he's a physicist.
He says, because we look at the hard data that tells us that they're wrong.
And as geologists, we're coming at it from two different perspectives.
He's looking at bizarre equations that I don't understand of physics, driving, whatever it is, and I don't want to learn it.
And I come at it, and geologists come at it, because we put things in a long-term perspective of
Thousands of millions of years and if you only look at the last 75 100 150 years well that's giving you a false indication you need to have a longer term perspective because during that 150 years all we have seen is warming and for the most parts in fits and starts we talked about that 33 year cooling period but that fit into the overall
Somewhat warming period since the late 17th century.
So, you know, I think, you know, physicists, geologists, we have a lot of geologists and a lot of physicists at the CO2 Coalition we've just added.
Actually, it turns out we have a lot of chemists.
We've also, what's interesting, we'll get to, we don't have to get to it right now, but we have an education initiative that we've launched last year.
If you want to go there, we can.
I'm so proud of what we've done, James.
Again, you've got an uphill struggle because you know and I know, I'm sure it's the same in the US as it is in the UK.
If there's one thing every school to every school science teacher knows is that man's selfishness and greed is destroying the planet because of CO2.
It's just an article of faith for them.
They don't even need to look at the other side.
So how do you get this information into these schools?
Well, we're in America.
I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but here we've got a huge Charter school system, a lot of people in charter schools, and they're allowed to present this information.
We have a huge homeschool movement.
Every single one of my grandchildren are homeschooled.
And the homeschoolers love what we have.
We have We formed a committee.
We were concerned that our children were being indoctrinated.
They were being taught groupthink.
Any information about climate change that went against this global warming, man-made catastrophic warming narrative was censored.
Actually, that's what they tell the people in the science standards.
Anything that goes against that is disinformation and pseudoscience, is what they actually tell them.
So we came out fighting.
We have about 18 members of our committee.
These are mostly all PhDs.
Physicists, chemists, we've got... and so we've got books, we've got videos, and importantly, we created the lesson plans that really are... the homeschoolers have really embraced that, particularly some charter schools.
And it was... our lesson plans are created by Dr. Sharon Camp.
Who's a PhD in analytic chemistry.
She taught AP science, is retired now as a science teacher.
She's still a reader for AP, which is Advanced Placement Science in the United States.
So she knows what she's doing.
So these are actually a scientist writing lesson plans about science, which is rare.
And so we're providing this we've created a new website.
We just launched it two months ago co2learningcenter.com co2learningcenter.com and it's it's it's really we got I Recruited a talented artist out of Brazil Tiago Hellinger.
So he does our books their manga style the kids love them Fascinating and the videos are also done anime style and I've started I've started a new book series.
I'm calling it the Sleep Well series and we're going to look at, the first one will be Chloe the Clownfish Sleeps Well at Night.
Oh, good old Chloe.
I'm glad.
Obviously, she's related to Nemo in some way.
Some way.
We recruited Dr. Peter Ridd.
You know Peter Ridd.
I know Peter Ridd.
Peter Ridd, I think I've had him on the podcast.
He has fought some heroic battles and been vilified and suffered greatly for it, for his almost one-man campaign to demonstrate the Great Barrier Reef isn't about to melt into a kind of acid pool with all the fish and corals dying.
Exactly.
He's a member of the CO2 Coalition.
I've recruited him.
He's going to help me with this Chloe the Clownfish book.
And so I'm going to have him come down in either a submersible or a scuba outfit to talk to her school to tell them that the Great Barrier Reef is thriving and there's no ocean.
It'll be just an opportunity for us to use this story.
To present actual science about oceans and the reef health.
Sure.
I'm curious, Gregory, about the fact that all your grandchildren are being homeschooled.
I mean, from where I am, homeschooling is quite a radical thing to do.
And by the way, it's what I would do if I could have my time with my children all over again.
I would homeschool them because I think that That conventional education is, is an indoctrination system.
So I, I, you're very lucky, but how come you managed to breed such awake kids?
My daughter is a, she's a fierce mama bear.
Don't get between her and her children.
Uh, they recognize the problems in the school system and my five-year-old granddaughter, the oldest, well, she's six now, but she was last year was reading at a fourth grade level.
So that would be.
You know, four years ahead of what her level would have been.
Yeah.
She reads the first book at four years old.
She was nearly five.
She read our first book.
It was called Once Upon a Time, The True Story of Carbon Dioxide.
She read the, I was, I wanted to sit down and read it to her.
She read it to me.
And the only words at this is at, at, at four years old, she stumbled over photosynthesis.
I've seen it.
I've seen it in the UK.
were the only two she almost got she almost got this so this is the power most of the homeschool the homeschoolers are they test off the scale compared to to public i've seen it i've seen it in the uk there was the there's this place called hope in um in southeast england a charity for homeschooling and i went to a festival one year and there were some of those homeschooled kids there and they were just they were outgoing
They were comfortable talking to adults.
They were, they formed in, in, in these sweet little groups where the older children would look, look after the younger children and the younger children would look up to the, to the older children as mentors.
It was, it was how the world should be.
So, and I can well, well believe that.
Everything, everything.
When they, my, when my daughter, wherever they go, it's an educational experience.
She brings.
Yeah.
Something to teach them about what they're doing.
Yeah.
And it's, uh, It's a wonderful and it's a large community that she's involved with.
They're not isolated sitting at home homeschooling.
It's not like that at all.
Yeah.
So they're, they're, they're very well acclimatized to other children.
Well, well-rounded and so, but I'm, I'm just so proud of what we've accomplished.
You would think with 15 or 18 eggheads of PhDs in a committee would never do and complete what we've done.
So, you know, kudos to them.
You say that you were initially agnostic about climate change until you started doing your research.
Have you suffered?
Has your career suffered at all?
Did you get any pushback when you started becoming an out climate denier?
No, it's because I got into it.
I was in the energy arena originally.
And was an entrepreneur, I was the founding partner of an energy company.
And then whenever I split, I couldn't do anything for several years in energy.
And I said, well, let's just, I took that time to do this exploration into climate change.
And that's what really sucked me in.
And so no, I've, I mean, yes, have I been Have I been banned?
Yeah, I've been banned on LinkedIn.
I'm permanently banned.
It's an interesting story.
Just real quickly, I was I had a huge following on LinkedIn.
Huge.
And I would post, because I posted scientific data that was really interesting and factual.
And they started, all of a sudden, they started removing my posts.
Almost every single one they would remove, call it false and misleading, and then erase it.
And my very last post on LinkedIn, now this is funny, but my very last post I said, I think I'm about to be banned and de-platformed by LinkedIn.
They removed it, called it false and misleading, and then banned and de-platformed me.
Now that's funny.
I don't care who you are.
That's funny.
And so that was a little over a year ago.
And they said permanently banned.
We will not even consider getting you back on.
You know, call me naive, I thought that LinkedIn was for business people to make contact with one another and develop their businesses.
I wasn't aware that its job in any form was to police people's worldview.
LinkedIn actually might be the worst.
Really?
We get shadow banned on Facebook.
We get, now most of our, we get our posts, we try and advertise our posts.
That's regularly, they don't like us at all.
That's pretty much we, most of those, most of our posts, Facebook does not allow promotions of them.
And so we, in fact, for Instagram, I've got to get back.
We've got to try and get on.
When I joined, when I took over, we didn't have an Instagram account.
So, I had our social media person, she created an Instagram account.
Yeah.
And before she could post the first post, when she did that, they said that we'd been removed for... It was like off... Before we could even post our first Instagram post, we were We were cancelled.
You've been preemptively banned.
Exactly.
That's fantastic.
That's an honor indeed.
Yep.
Oh, and then this is also good.
Talk about a badge of honor.
We went to the National Science Teaching Association annual convention just a few months ago in May.
And we had a double booth that we paid for.
This is a huge convention of 14,000 people.
We went into the lion's den and We looked at the NSTA's climate change policy and what they promote, and it was just horrible.
Horrible, horrible, horrible.
It made the National Climate Assessment and the IPCC look good.
And so, we created, it was Dr. Linzen, Dr. Happer, myself, and a whole team of people put together, it was called Challenging the NSTA's Climate Policy.
It was a publication, we actually had a publication date of the first day of the convention.
And, uh, we put it up and we were swamped by people.
All the teachers just, uh, the second day, they're just coming and gathering our material.
Second day, the second morning, we just handed out all of our materials we had brought and the COO and another head honcho and three security people came up and he told me, he said, you have to take down this material.
Because it was this challenging net zero.
He says, your material is contradicting what we say.
This is our convention.
You need to remove it.
And I told him, I said, we're not going to remove that.
That's what we're here for.
And he says, then you're going to have to leave.
So I said, you're going to, you're expelling us from your convention that we've paid for.
He says, that's right.
You must pack up and leave.
And so right in the middle of the convention, now bear in mind, I've got, I've got three PhD women, fairly young.
That are this is their mission is science education.
And they're there with me.
And so they had security kick me and three women PhD scientists out of their convention, probably the only PhDs on the whole floor, I might add.
And so we were that as a badge of honor, we walked out with our heads held high.
Again, we were that as a badge of honor.
Well, a did you get your money back?
No.
And B, before you were kicked out, what kind of reception were you getting?
Was it hostile?
Was it?
Oh, overwhelmingly positive.
There were a couple, there were a couple nasties.
Yeah.
They said, Oh, CO2 coalition.
I love what you're doing.
And you know, this is so great that you're working to fight back against climate change and be like, well, that's not quite really what we believe.
And when they go, they would go, there would be this, their eyes would widen.
It was just like a horror.
They go, Oh, We had people just throw the materials back at us.
We had a guy from NOAA.
They had a huge booth not too far from where our booth was and he came over.
He was an imposing guy.
He must have been 6'4", 6'5".
And he was, I can't convert that to meters, but a tall guy.
We know feet.
So he came over and he says, I had Some of my colleagues told me that you were here promoting this disinformation.
He says, I didn't believe it until I walked up here.
And I said, no, look here, this is the data.
This is what we're doing.
And yeah, he didn't like it much.
Well, there's a very good comeback to anyone from NOAA or indeed from NASA, because in my days fighting the climate wars, I must have written at least half a dozen articles Demonstrating that NOAA had completely mucked around with the data.
They'd fiddled with the data sets.
The actual raw data was untrustworthy because of the placing of the weather stations and so on.
Everything about the process, people think if it's called the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, is that right?
They think it's got a long name and it's a sort of branch of government.
It must be reliable.
There must be standards that they must maintain.
Everything I saw in my study of NASA's, NASA GIS, Goddard Institute of Space Studies, and NOAA's treatment of the data to do with climate change.
It's fraudulent.
It's not even kind of innocent errors.
It's actively fraudulent.
Yeah.
And that's what I showed him when he walked up to our booth, was I said, well, look, we're using your own data here.
Are you saying that your own data is wrong?
But you're right, a lot of this stuff was, and again, I exposed that in my new book, I went back and looked at it.
Tony Heller has a wonderful software program that allows, it takes a little while to get used to it and figure it out, but it's wonderful that you can take actually the NOAA data From the United States Historical Climate Network.
So, it's United States data, but we have some of the best coverage over a wide area of anywhere in the world.
So, we were able to take that and manipulate, not manipulate it, but we can get the raw data and then we can get the manipulated data that's been altered and see what the changes are.
And what we find for the United States, it was before about 1980, There was a strong cooling.
The altered data cooled the data.
And after 1980, it warmed it.
And it was significant.
And that's what they do.
What we looked at was, particularly if you look at maximum temperatures, it turned a decline of maximum temperatures into an increase from the raw data to the altered data.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They can do anything, can't they?
I mean, as I understand it, the really hot period in the US certainly was in the 1930s, I think.
Much hotter than... Yeah.
Late 20s, early 1930s.
Absolutely.
And if you look at the EPA Environmental Protection Agency's website and search for EPA heat waves, a year ago you would have found this chart that showed everything going back to about I think 1895 or 1900 that showed this giant spike of heat waves in the 20s and 30s and then huge decline to today that we're, you know, a fraction of those.
That was removed a year ago and replaced by this other thing called a heat wave index and I only realized that as I started writing, going deep into my book.
I said, what happened to this chart?
They hid it, and it's gone.
And if you look at this, their heatwave index isn't really a heatwave index of the United States.
It's actually, you have to go really deep into the methodology that nobody does, except maybe you and me.
I went into the methodology to find out that it was the 50 largest metropolitan areas of the United States.
It was the heat index of cities.
And you know fully well that the urban heat island effect is an artificial warming that's been going on for decades of Artificially warming these urban areas because of the buildings, the asphalt, a number of things having to do with it.
So it wasn't actually so and they didn't disclose that and this is this is how they manipulate data.
Another great one, well it's not great, it's just but a great example was this recent study on mortality that was the journal Nature published here.
This was just two months ago perhaps.
They found that Actually, the conclusion, he had to dig into it, but the conclusion of this was that 10 times as many people die due to cold as due to heat.
And the chart that they used, though, okay, that was in there.
But after that, they didn't say heat or cold related deaths.
They said temperature challenge.
There was a phrase they used, so you would just assume it was hot.
But the chart they used, they manipulated the data.
And so, you have to see the chart, but the x-axis for the heat related deaths was zero to 250, cold was zero to 50.
And what it made it look like, Cold and heat were the same on the chart, which is what people look at.
Well, we went back and redid that to show that, my lord, if you look at the chart the way it really should be, Is this huge amount of cold related deaths and a very small amount of heat related deaths.
And the other thing interesting with this study was that actually the heat related deaths as they looked into it, they called it a harvesting effect where the heat rate, heat deaths were culling those that were really sick and near death anyhow, that they would have died within the next few months and that they actually reported what they called a mortality shadow in the months following a heat wave.
Because bear in mind, those people would have died in those next few months, but they were taken out during the heat wave.
And you don't see that with the cold-related deaths.
So, there's a lot that goes into this.
The biggest study of its kind showed that, which was Gasparini et al., looked at 74 million temperature-related deaths.
In that study, they found that it was 20 times as many people die due to cold as due to heat.
Nonetheless, it's completely opposite of what you and your viewers are being told.
Yeah, yeah.
I was talking to my wife the other night about this.
She works in the gardening sector, if that's the right word, and she spends a lot of time visiting grand houses with Beautiful gardens and going to the Royal Horticultural Society and institutions like that and the National Trust which is which is Britain's biggest landowner and so on.
And every one of these institutions has been captured.
By the alarmists, by the people who say that, for example, in the gardening world they say there are certain species of plants which we should no longer grow in Britain because they are inappropriate, because of all this warming that is coming, and because of the conditions.
It's quite wrong.
So that they're sort of inventing this thing and in advance of evidence that there is an actual problem.
They've just they're so invested in this and I think you'll find every institution across the world be it architects bodies that they'll have have regulations, which which which which assume that co2 is a deadly problem and warming is going to destroy us all.
The gardening world will have it.
I imagine that the farmers have to face it.
Every institution.
They've permeated the entirety of our culture with what is essentially a lie.
Yeah, and that's your job, well at least my job, and ours, is to fight back against this.
I think it's going to require... We're going to win this war.
We're going to win battles.
We're going to win the war eventually.
It may require... Again, Will Happer and I had this conversation.
He's convinced that we're getting closer, but it's going to require quite a bit more pain before people actually go, wait a minute.
Well, just let me give an example of the pain that we're feeling.
I moved to Florida three years ago.
We bought a home there.
That year, we averaged $149 a month for electricity.
This year, we're averaging over $500 per month for electricity.
Now, I'm not going to convert that to pounds, but who can afford what normal person can afford to pay that.
To have that kind of an increase.
So it's more than trebled in three years.
Yes.
Now, what has caused that?
Is it renewable mandates or what?
Yeah, they've gone more and more.
We're under a Tampa Electric Company, and they've gone more renewables.
I don't know exactly the reason.
I can tell you that it's happened, because I'm experiencing it.
I will say that now we've got, well, the home before was only a gentleman and his wife.
Now, it's like the Wrightstone family compound, which is my wife, me, My daughter's son-in-law and three grandkids and another son.
That's nice though!
Oh yeah it is but you know so we're using a bit we looked at it we're using a bit more electrics that's part of it but it's mainly the increase in in the electricity.
I had hoped that a red state like Florida might have been exempt from the nonsense but it but it's obviously a If you look at Texas, Texas might be the worst.
They have the highest percentage, I believe, of renewables.
They've embraced wind power, solar power, and the chickens are coming home to roost there.
We saw that a couple of years ago with the blackout.
Yeah.
in Texas.
And we're going to be seeing that repeated worldwide.
We're seeing it.
We know it's being repeated in Africa regularly with these brownouts and blackouts on a regular basis.
Actually, just riddle me this, Gregory.
Texas, we certainly think of over here as a state of rugged oil men, looking a bit like probably Kevin Costner in that.
I know that's not set in.
Yellowstone, yeah.
And they're no-nonsense, and they don't take any bullshit from enviro-wackos.
And if there's one thing we know about Texas, because we've seen Dallas a few decades ago, it's got loads and loads of oil.
So how did this oil rich red state of sort of rugged individualists, how did they get captured by the eco loons?
Well, just as in the UK, your so-called conservative elements have been captured by the, they're, they're not that conservative after all.
And they're not that aware of, of the true facts of climate change.
And we had some Republican governors that said, well, let's do the right, this, you know, they got captured by this and promoted it.
Um, and they, they put the wrong people on the wrong boards, uh, The, you know, the PUs, the Public Utility Commissions, they put the wrong people on there and they're going to promote it.
They're realizing it now too late, but they're still going forward with a lot of these stupid proposals.
Again, I think It's going to require more pain for people to just wake up and go, oh my god.
I mean, they're trying.
Just think about this.
They're trying to control.
They want to take away our freedoms here in the United States and around.
Our freedom to choose what car to drive, how to heat our homes.
In the UK, it's a big push for heat pumps.
You know, it's just crazy.
I mean, what?
You know, the showers.
I just bought a new shower head, James.
Okay, so it's two shower heads.
And there were three flow restrictors in it.
There's one in the base and one in each shower head.
I mean, that water trickled out.
It was barely, and my son-in-law come visit, came visit.
He knocked out all three flow restrictors.
And man, I tell you what, you get in that shower now, it about takes your skin off.
I love it.
And, but that's what they want.
They want, that's what they're doing.
They're selling us now imposing dishwashers that don't really wash dishes very well.
And washing machines.
Thank you for confirming that.
Yeah.
The dishwasher we've got is just useless.
And it takes three hours to wash the dishes.
It takes three and a half hours.
And you don't get the water doesn't dry off at the end so that you take the stuff out and Well, you're doing your part.
I want to thank you, you and your wife, for doing your part to save the planet.
You're to be commended.
And also, you should be commended for that new washing machine you probably just bought that doesn't really wash your clothes very well because it's low water.
So it's just, it's ridiculous.
They're now in the United States regulating air conditioning units.
Are they really?
Yes.
The thing that makes certain, in certain states are uninhabitable.
I mean, I imagine Virginia, for example, which is built, which is a swamp basically.
In the summer, you wouldn't want to live there.
I live there in the summer.
It's actually the heat waves today.
We just did a report, Virginia and climate, on this.
We looked at Virginia-specific data, and we find that the maximum temperatures in Virginia are actually less than they were back 90 years ago in the 20s and 30s.
Actually, the 40s and 50s for Virginia were actually higher than they are today.
And we took a look.
We're doing these State-specific studies.
We did one for the Midwest, America's Breadbasket.
The title is Midwest and Climate Change.
America's Breadbasket is thriving and prospering.
And we see that because it's, you know, corn, soybeans, and the other crops grown across the Midwest of the United States are just, again, breaking records year after year after year.
And we see that mortality is declining, that Again, heat waves in the Midwest peaked in the 20s and 30s.
I've got a couple other studies.
If you like the show Yellowstone, you'll be empowered to know we're doing a study specifically on Montana, which is fascinating.
There was a recent climate kids lawsuit that was decided in the climate kids' favor, and the judge Actually found her findings of fact, there were 60 of them.
And we're going through each one.
It was just ridiculous!
And it's a lot of fun just going in and looking at each one and debunking them.
Like they're saying that they numbered eight or ten different animal species that were in decline.
And we went and looked at the Montana data to show that the species they say were in decline were actually increasing.
Yeah, yeah.
At the rivers of Montana to say that their oxygen levels are decreasing and the heat.
Well, we looked at the actual data that proved that it's actually incorrect.
The snowpack, they say that the snow resorts aren't going to be existing in a few years because of the The decline of snow.
Oh, no, just the contrary.
Just last year, they had record levels of snow in Montana and things like that.
So it's actually I find it's a lot of fun to go through.
OK, this is what they're telling you.
And here's what the data is.
I don't know whether you ever came across that famous, glorious headline in the Independent newspaper in the UK, and it was headlined, soon children will forget what snow looks like.
Yep, yep, yep.
And the person who wrote that, he's never going to get any comeback, he's going to get a bit of light ridicule, but he's never going to suffer the career damage that people get for telling the truth about climate change.
Um, I'd like to question one of one of the things you said where you said that politicians don't actually know the truth.
They don't know the answer.
Now.
I have a friend whose name is Michael Gove, who, who is a successful politician in the UK.
And he was the education secretary for a while.
And I think, I think then he became the environment secretary at a different stage.
And when we were more friendly than we are perhaps now, I gave him a copy of my book Watermelons and he read it and was thoroughly acquainted with the arguments and knew that I was right and acknowledged this in conversations.
And even when he was Education Secretary, he tried to remove some of the climate nonsense from the curriculum.
Yet, a few years later, there he was, enforcing Enviro directives with great zeal.
And magically he'd forgotten all the factual evidence against the idea that CO2 is a problem.
He'd embraced the Green Agenda wholeheartedly.
Now I put it to you that our politicians actually, even though they are thick, they're not that thick, what they are is essentially puppets of a Supranational movement, so above the level of national governments, which wants to impoverish us, immiserate us, regulate the amount of energy we can use, whether for cars or for travel.
They want to stop us traveling every which way.
They want us to shiver or boil in our homes.
Ultimately, this is not about science, is it?
Yeah, it's not, and they're just misguided, and that's why we need to educate them.
And, you know, how we do that's a different matter.
I'll be in London next week, hopefully meeting with some of your Members of Parliament, quite a few of them, on a couple of separate meetings, and I'll be trying to educate them.
And so I want to thank you, James, for having me on today.
It's been a great pleasure, and I hope we've inspired some of your viewers to go and Learn more.
Again, get either one of my books.
But I have, actually, I have another interview.
I've been doing back-to-back interviews.
Ah, okay.
It wasn't that you were kind of... I was wondering whether you were trying to evade where I was going.
No, not at all.
Let's do this again.
Let's do this again whenever we have some more time.
Today it's been impossible with back-to-back.
That's all right.
It's good.
You've got a book to promote and I understand that and I really hope it sells because it's important what you're doing.
So, thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming on the Deling Pod.
Thank you.
Okay.
Delling Pole meets Mike.
In Manchester, November 15th.
You'll find the details below.
I'm really looking forward to seeing you all there.
