Thierry Baudet is a Dutch MP, the founder and leader of the Forum for Democracy (FVD) party in the Netherlands. He is probably the most red-pilled sitting MP anywhere in the West - as he demonstrated when he challenged Prime Minister Mark Rutte on his World Economic Forum connections in a speech that went viral on social media. He is also sceptical about: the plandemic, jibby jabs, and the war in Ukraine. He shows James his new beard and his lovely tropical-looking garden in Amsterdam, and talks about everything from why he has such a French name, whether the insurgent 'Farmers' party' BBB can be trusted, how his ex-girlfriend Eva Vlaadringerbroek tried to stab him in the back (metaphorically, obvs), and how much further down the rabbit hole he has yet to go. He is author of the number one Dutch bestseller The Covid Conspiracy.
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Welcome to The Denning Pole with me, James Denning Pole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but before I introduce him, a quick word about all our amazing sponsors.
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On to my special guest.
I really am excited.
You look nothing like I expected you to because you've grown a beard, Thierry.
Yes, but it's only temporary.
I didn't know that this podcast was going to be recorded as well on video.
So I'm going to the barber in two days.
You're telling me, had you known that it would have been visuals as well, rather than audio, you would have shaved your beard off?
I probably would have asked my wife to help me, you know, make it a little bit more... I like your beard.
It's very piratical, which I think is good for people of our persuasion.
Does your wife like it?
This is something that we are in that stage that one doesn't even ask anymore.
I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
But as we were, maybe your viewers will be interested to hear that as we were just preparing for this show, I was picking up the phone, because I'm recording this from my phone, from my Amsterdam tropical garden.
And I think it was that particular image that you enjoyed because it was the beard and the palm trees.
It was the full thing.
I thought you were not in Amsterdam.
We're going to explain, remind those people who don't know, who have a clue who you are.
We're going to tell them in a moment.
But first, I want to see your Amsterdam garden.
I thought you'd flown somewhere in the Mediterranean.
Show me your garden.
Yeah, I'll walk you and your viewers Towards it a little bit.
It's one of the things that in my entire life there are a few constant things that have always been the same.
One is my dislike of left-wing people.
The other is my deep love for classical music and wine, of course.
And the third is my love of palm trees.
And wherever I've been in my life, I always wanted to have palm trees around.
So when I bought this house, I decided immediately to put all these tropical elements here.
I've got a There is a fig tree, there's all this stuff, and we have a cuisine de thé, a summer kitchen where we can have... You were saying you were on keto, so this is caveman cooking that we can do here.
Well, I wouldn't say that your pizza oven is very keto.
It's very anti-keto, but apart from that...
My what?
My pizza?
Wasn't that a pizza oven?
I saw that.
No, no, no.
No, it's not a pizza oven.
It's a, it's a, it's a stone grill where you can, you can do caveman style, uh, cote de boeuf and that kind of thing.
And this is just some fig tree, all these, all these things.
And there's going to be a lot more.
I've also got another garden, a different part of the house.
So we have, um, Yeah, we have a little bit of anticipation for climate change, let's say.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's not talk about that.
Let's not talk about that.
So, Thierry, before we go on, I've got to ask you, you're a Dutch MP, but you've got a French name.
Why is that?
Because I come from, my family has French roots.
My ancestor was, I come from a family of mathematicians and one of my ancestors, the one that carried my name, was a teacher of math and he was involved in the Napoleonic move End of the 18th century, early 19th century, which encompassed the Netherlands as well.
So my ancestor, the one who gave me my family name, came to the Netherlands to teach French and math to the children of the better families in the Netherlands.
He had a boarding school.
Where it was common to speak French amongst the Dutch youth of a certain background at that time.
And the odd thing is, recently a book was written about my family history.
I was a man who did some research into all of these interesting genealogies.
Throughout the 19th century, my family was involved in teaching in boarding schools.
Which was something that existed back then because we had some empire, of course, as well.
The Netherlands had Indonesia, of course.
Yeah, we fought you.
We British.
We fought many a battle with you.
I know.
I still haven't forgiven you, but... Well, we haven't forgiven you for burning our ships, for sailing up the Thames and burning our fleet.
Yes, indeed.
Yes.
Yes, we've got some unfinished business.
Yeah, too right, mate, too right.
I think we prevailed in the end, though, didn't we, over most of your colleagues?
Yes, but also the British lost.
I mean, there's this saying that the British had just won the war, or did you?
You know, it's a terrible thing that has happened to Europe after 1945.
We've lost Everything.
We've been reduced to the margins of history and all of us are paying the price for it.
I didn't get much of that because your internet suddenly got shit.
What did you miss, James?
Sorry.
Oh, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.
Look, but I can't see your piratical face at the moment, but I can hear you at least.
The weird thing is, Thierry, I mean, I'm jumping ahead of myself here, but I no longer get remotely excited about the British Empire.
I don't feel at all proud of it, because I recognise that it wasn't really serving the interests of the British people at all.
It was serving the interests of the... Indigenous ones.
The deep state.
The bad guys, the people.
Really?
Are you there?
Yeah.
I think I might be further down the rabbit hole than even you are, Thierry, and you're pretty far down.
So we can come to that point in a moment.
But look, I want to talk to you about how, well, first of all, how I came across you.
Which was I think that somewhere like Twitter I would have seen footage of you in the Dutch Parliament asking Mark Rutter who I think is one of the most, one of the more evil people in the world, there's lots of competition.
And he's not that high up.
No, exactly.
I mean, in the great scheme of things, he's nothing.
He's a peon.
But nevertheless, he supposedly is or was the leader of your country.
And you were asking him some fairly tough questions on vaccines or Covid.
And of course, he was stonewalling you.
But I suppose the broader point is, which is why I'm talking to you, I think you are just about the only member of parliament anywhere, OK, we've got Andrew Bridgen now, but certainly wasn't at the time, the only member of parliament anywhere in the world who's consistently challenged the fake Covid narrative.
I mean, you were quite early on in the game, weren't you?
You were calling out the bullshit.
Yes, I think that's true.
And the reason is, Oddly enough, that I'm probably one of the only parliamentarians in the world who is not interested in being a parliamentarian.
We're faced with a situation where The people that get positions, and that get in the position to decide things, are much more interested in being in that particular position for themselves than to think seriously about what the impact and implications of such decisions would be.
So, the Dutch Parliament consists of 150 people, I'm being one of them obviously, but I've encountered during my time in Parliament, and I I got elected into parliament in 2017 out of a calling of consciousness.
I felt I needed to do something for my nation, for my country.
But I felt that I was surrounded by brain dead zombies.
These people are not intellectuals in the remotest sense.
They are not interested in ideas.
They're not interested in In fact, in truth, they don't research things, they don't read things, they surf along the waves of whatever is the current thing.
And so when COVID hit, And this is, you know, I've written a book about this.
It's just coming out.
It's called the Covid Conspiracy.
Oh, thank you.
What do you think?
Oh, I'll tell you.
We can talk about that in a moment.
But just to carry on with what you're saying.
So when Covid struck, this is January, February 2020.
I'm describing the early days of Covid.
It was a very interesting phenomenon, right?
There's this virus.
What, what, what did I even know about viruses?
I'd never, I've never, I'd never read a book about, I did a PhD in political philosophy.
I did some history, I did some classical music and some philosophy and art history and all these things.
And I did some wine drinking during my student years, but I didn't actually study viruses.
So I was, I started reading about these things.
I felt I had to know something if the parliament is the brain As it were of the nation, then we should become quasi experts in that field.
But nobody else in Parliament, and I encountered this in France and in Britain, I was in quite a lot of contact with other politicians across Europe at the time.
Nobody seemed interested in researching what was actually going on.
So I started doing that and I realized that All of the measures that were being taken from January, February onwards until April 2020 were Procrastination.
They were just kicking the can down the road.
If you were serious about this might be a biological weapon, it might be a military-grade attack, then in that case you would need to take the most stringent measures possible.
None of that happens.
There are all these in-between things.
And then from April slash May 2020 onwards, it was completely clear across the world from mortality rates that COVID was not more dangerous than the flu.
So ever since that moment, everything that happened can indeed be called a conspiracy because there's no way
That governments didn't realize that they were inflating a problem to massive extensions and using the created crisis to pursue policies that were desired for other reasons than the stated reasons, than the reasons that they gave to the public.
So from April, let's say April 2020 until The date when Vladimir Putin cured Covid when he invaded Ukraine.
So that was in February 2022.
Everything that happened was demonstrably, provably based on fake numbers.
It was deceit.
It was not effective and possibly extremely dangerous as in the case of the vaccines.
And one of the things that – so you were talking about how you got interested into me.
One of the things that – I've been an admirer of you for many years, but one of the things that really touched me, that really struck a nerve in me was a column you wrote Not so long ago, about the National Conservatism Conference, which is a Jewish-American initiative to explain to the West how, after the Second World War, they may still be nationalists.
How?
How great is that?
If Israelis tell us we can still be nationalists.
Wonderful.
But this initiative was a conference in London and you attended it.
There were a couple of people from my party who attended it.
And, I mean, some of these people are very interesting people, they're very learned people, they're serious people, they're wonderful people, but they're not talking about the deep issues, the real issues that are...
that are dividing our world, that are defining what's happening in the world.
Ukraine, obviously, COVID, the vaccines, and instead they're sort of busy bodying themselves with these safe subjects.
And that is exactly what I encountered when I spoke up against the COVID scam, the COVID conspiracy.
All these conservatives.
I was hailed by lots of conservatives.
I was celebrated in many ways.
I won the elections in 2019 in the Netherlands.
You know, there was this genuine sense that if only we can just keep the tone down, you know, if only we can be sort of acceptable by the mainstream, then we can maybe win and, you know, we can be part of the establishment.
But the desire to be part of the establishment was much more important to these conservatives than the desire to speak the truth, to fight the actual battle, to fight the fight that got us into this situation in the first place.
So what happened was that I drifted off.
From my peers, from the people that supported me, from anyone in my surroundings, and I got all these infighting, and by sheer mystery I would like to say, by sheer chance, I survived.
In every normal political situation, I would have been ousted.
I would have been kicked out of my own party.
I would have been replaced by some bureaucrat, by some mediocre conservatard.
And everything would have been back to normal.
This is the normal thing.
This is what happened to To the Republican Party.
This is what happened to Trump, essentially.
This is what happened to Boris Johnson.
This is what happens whenever someone genuinely speaks out.
Then the rest of them just kick him out and they think the power is more interesting than truth.
Yes.
So I survived and that's the story.
I'm going to just rewind slightly because you've raised lots of interesting points there.
So you and I went on a similar journey because like you, I'm very, very curious about things.
I just want to find out what the truth is.
I don't care where it leads me or how unpopular it makes you.
I want to find out what's going on.
And like you, In the early, early months of, before the sort of the pandemic so-called became a thing, so we're talking the first three months of 2020 maybe, I was looking at this stuff, which I now realize was part of a Chinese psy-op, But at the time I thought it was something else.
I thought it was, I thought, here is this deadly disease which could be a bioweapon.
We should be taking it seriously.
And no one's talking about it.
And I took measures.
I mean, I took a short position in a cruise liner, in Carnival Cruises, and made $5,000 out of it.
Because I knew something bad was coming.
But anyway.
So for a time I bought into the bullshit and then all the other people did, by which time I was going, no, you're wrong.
You might think that this is real, actually it's a complete waste of time.
Look at the mortality figures, they're completely within normal variations.
You go back ten years and you find The average age adjusted mortality figures were the same, were even higher 10 years ago than they were in 2020.
That is not the hallmark of a deadly pandemic as it was sold to us.
So I'm with you there.
But you were saying that the politicians In France, in the UK, in the US, etc., in the Netherlands, you suggested that they knew what was going on, that there was no way that they believed it was a genuine pandemic, that they were just basically pushing the narrative that had been imposed on them by the World Health Organization, etc.
But you also said that politicians are lazy and thick and really not intellectually Up to speed.
So, up to speed.
So how do you reconcile those two positions?
I mean, is it not possible that all these bloody MPs really genuinely didn't have a clue?
They just did what they were told and they didn't question anything?
Yes.
Yes, indeed.
That's very possible.
And that is why in the book, in the COVID conspiracy, which I will just now show to your readers, I explicitly leave open the possibility that at the national level,
These semi-literate people that take all these positions of power may actually not be able to read statistics and genuinely have no clue at all of mortality rates and all these things.
But the people higher up in the global hierarchy must certainly have understood this.
There's no way that The more intelligent, more serious people in the three-letter organizations, including the WHO, had no clue of the mortality rate.
That just that just doesn't fly.
And so the thing that why I thought it was so important to write this book is is that it changed my understanding of the world.
And there are two things here that I think that really must be discussed and understood by people because this The example of COVID shows it.
First is, there is actually, there's no societal mechanism to reach rational conclusions for problems, solutions, anything, outcome.
Because from April onwards for two years, there was this complete unreason.
You know, this is first class high school statistics that we're talking about.
Mortality rates, lockdown, the effect of it and the cost in terms of qualitative life years.
Also the vaccines, the measurement of the negative side effects.
The way mRNA functions and the risks of it and so on and so forth.
It's absolutely elementary high school level logic.
But we saw that throughout society, not just in the Netherlands, but everywhere in the developed world, society was incapable of reaching these Logic conclusions.
They're incapable.
It did not happen.
The journalists didn't write about it.
Academia kept silent.
The big corporations didn't raise their voice.
Politicians went along with it.
So, Society as a, in the Burkean or Oakshottian sense, as an organism that sort of comes up with the wisdom of the age, blah, blah, blah.
This is brain death.
We do not have a functioning filter.
Second, and that's equally important, and then I'll let you ask, I see that you want to ask a question, I'll let you ask it.
Don't worry.
Very quickly.
The second thing is that this unreason, this illogical Reality was imposed on us on a global level.
So it's not just that society as a mechanism for arriving at rational choices and the filtering of ideas and so on did not function anymore, but also that we are essentially part of something much larger than what we used to understand as a national democracy.
That doesn't exist anymore.
Apparently, we have all been co-opted by a global, well, deep state, you mentioned it.
It doesn't matter what term you use.
We can also say global bureaucracy or a global convergence of big business and supranational organizations.
But in any case, this is the reality of the power that exists in the Western world today.
There's no rational check and things are decided at a global level.
These two realizations are extremely important, I think, for anyone when watching the world today.
I totally agree.
There's a line in your book which I remember.
Did you say you don't agree or you do agree?
I do agree.
You asked me what I thought of your book.
I enjoyed it very much.
I think it was possibly a mistake to use the C word in the title, conspiracy, and I'll tell you why.
It absolutely is a conspiracy, but I think that your book is quite good at introducing what I would call normies, people who aren't yet awake, to the idea of a conspiracy, of a global conspiracy, that there's so much about The alleged pandemic, which doesn't make sense.
And people are starting to question all these things.
But when you whack them with the conspiracy word, their hackles rise and all that.
A lifetime's conditioning where they've been taught that anything that sounds like a conspiracy is for bad people, crazy people, tinfoil hat people.
For example, when your book arrived, and I showed it to my wife, I was thinking... Actually, she's going to have a look into it.
She doesn't think the same way as me.
She didn't take the death jab, but she's definitely not down the rabbit hole.
Anyway, it's a great book, and very good for bringing the questioning closer to Alex.
James, what would have been a better title?
Well, just anything without conspiracy in it, that's all.
OK, the Covid scam?
Yeah, yes, that would have been good.
You should have made it a bit more oblique.
You win people over by asking questions rather than by telling them.
OK.
Well, maybe the second edition.
Yeah, maybe the second edition.
I think scam is a good word.
What's the Dutch for scam?
I use the Dutch word that is just in the middle between conspiracy and scam, which is bedroeg.
Bedroeg.
Bedroeg in German.
Bedroeg.
Okay, what does that mean?
What's the literal translation of that?
Well, bedrog is more like scam than conspiracy, because conspiracy would be samenzwering.
So, in the Dutch title I've been slightly more... Oblique?
Right, yes, that's the word.
OK, well that's good, that's good.
I think that works better.
But I just feel that I want to reconquer the word conspiracy, because I'm deeply annoyed by precisely what you're saying, that this lifetime of programming, that we cannot talk about conspiracies.
When you talk about conspiracies, then you're Then you're not part of the game anymore.
You're an outsider.
And I want to break that because I think it's very important for us to own that concept and own that word and say it out loud and acknowledge that these things exist.
Yeah.
No, I think it's horses for courses.
I can see both arguments.
But there's a line in the book, which I really like, where you point out that in Amsterdam, Sometimes the streets or the cars are covered in fine yellow dust, which has come all the way from the Sahara.
Yes, indeed.
So the idea that you can stop a deadly virus in its tracks by wearing a mask, which is the equivalent of a tennis court net, trying to stop mosquitoes getting through.
Did you have this thing in supermarkets where you had these markings where you could stand and you had this kind of arbitrary distance?
I think in the Netherlands you had even more craziness than we had in the UK, didn't you?
I think it was just about the same everywhere.
But yes, indeed, we had all these ridiculous things.
Also, another thing is, you were disadvised to use cash.
Because cash supposedly carried COVID, obviously.
I mean, this is what viruses do, right?
They're in the money.
They love banknotes.
They just can't get enough of it.
It's like money, money, money.
But then, of course, if you pay by card, One has to put in these four numbers of your pin code or whatever.
And you know, as everybody knows, viruses, they're not into numbers, right?
They don't stick to... Viruses never ever ever go anywhere near the fingertips.
They hate the fingertips.
It all makes sense.
My dad was banned for life from this hotel in Malvern because he went for lunch and he spotted some people at another table.
And she broke the rules by getting up from his table and going over to speak to another.
Oh no!
All the tables were segregated.
And when they confronted him, he gave them a mouthful.
And because of his outrageous rejection of all these perfectly reasonable safety measures, he was banned.
It's, this is really...
To me, this is just...
We were able to follow these ridiculous guidelines.
Did your government also issue masturbation suggestions to couples?
There were!
There were some bizarre sex tips.
I forget what they were.
If you're going to have oral sex with another gentleman, you should make sure that he's standing on the other side of a wall and he puts his willy through the hole like they did in the 1950s.
the 1950s.
Quite, yes, yes, that kind of thing.
And, yeah, absolutely absurd, absolutely absurd.
Well it was.
I want to introduce you to a spooky theory that you may have heard of.
Are you aware that when the CIA are This is a CIA technique.
When they're sort of causing mayhem in, say, Central America, and they want to cow the populace, and they want to find out who the troublemakers are, they will deliberately get the government to deliberately introduce a crazy regulation like, you know, you can only eat bananas on a day of the week.
with a, I don't know, with an R in it or whatever.
And most people comply, as people do, and they know who the troublemakers are.
When they see somebody eating a banana on a day without an R in it, they can, I mean, that's how it works.
How was the resistance in the Netherlands?
Well, this is something that, that it strikes something with me because somebody said to me recently that there's actually a eugenic element in the vaccines because it kills all the irrational people.
So...
Yes, it does.
This is one of the arguments against it being a conspiracy.
People say, well, why would they kill the compliant people when surely what they want to do is kill people like you and me?
Indeed.
So the other option is that the vaccine, being as irrational as it is, also serves as an antidote to the next thing that they're going to release.
I've heard that one.
That's not going to persuade me to take the jab, I'm afraid.
Neither is it going to persuade me.
The precautionary principle.
It may be safe for the next deadly virus.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
The next one will get attention this time, as Bill Gates said.
But yes, the response to the Netherlands, I think it was pretty much the same across the Western world.
We had the 80% compliant people, docile, that simply said, you know, whatever the news tells me is true, is true.
And I will go with whatever is advised by the authorities.
And I don't feel that I'm in the position to judge these things myself.
And then there were a couple of people who just didn't know.
And then there was about between 5% and maybe 10% of the population That was increasingly reasonable.
And I was realizing what was going on.
And my campaign for the parliamentary elections in 2021, so one year into COVID, was entirely based on mobilizing the people that were opposing the COVID measures.
And I had this freedom campaign, the freedom trail.
We were driving around the country, we were meeting each other, we were hugging each other and making physical contact.
And there was a certain percentage of people that was realizing this was all rubbish, bullshit, ridiculous.
And to some extent, I feel that the resistance, the opposition to COVID was more successful than they had expected.
And perhaps because the way in which everything disappeared overnight is very remarkable.
What you mean?
You mean the moment Ukraine hit the news headlines, COVID vanished as a problem?
That detail?
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Yeah.
So, and I mentioned this further down in the book, I say, so I've written this in 2021, I say, look, if the resistance against this is going to become too significant, they will start a war with Russia and we'll find something else to push the agenda through because the real The real agenda is CBDC.
The real agenda is a social credit system, social control, totalitarian bureaucracy that will control our lives up until every detail with the excuse of preventing climate change and emission, which is the greatest, most ridiculous scam in In world history, that's just absolutely absurd, the idea that we changed climate with emissions and all that.
It's just ridiculous, completely ridiculous.
But so what happened, I feel, is that they did not expect us to, you know, across the world, not just in the Netherlands, but to wake up so quickly to the reality of this story.
Yeah.
I really think that this was unexpected to them.
And so they had to start something new.
But in the Rockefeller Report, as I'm sure you know, this is the 2010 thing where the Rockefeller Foundation, they have these four scenarios.
And they're not, in reality, they're not four alternative scenarios.
They're just consecutive scenarios.
So the Rockefeller Foundation is a very influential think tank, and they have all these scenario planning things.
And they say there's a virus situation, we need lockdowns and all that, then we're going to get hack attacks, and then there's going to be some kind of decentralized disorganized world, and then ultimately we're going to be better together.
That's the chronology of everything.
But they write in the report that it will take about 13 years For people to wake up to the fact that lockdowns and all that are costing them too much freedom.
But it took us, in fact, it took us only a year and a half.
So I'm pretty proud of us resistance fighters.
I think we did a great job.
We useless eaters actually were better than they think of us.
Because they think we're scum.
They think that we are just like cattle, don't they?
Yes, that is definitely what I think is the view of Of the people up there.
And I must admit, I also admit it explicitly in the book, that I have not been able to identify the exact desk, the bureau, the office building, where all these things are actually decided upon and where the actual central intelligence is being gathered.
And perhaps these These things don't even exist.
It's like when we watch birds flying through the sky in a certain formation.
Yes.
You know, it's more like a group thing, but it does... Like a murmuration of starlings.
Extraordinary sight, where they all go... Yes, indeed.
And they form these patterns, and somebody must be deciding it, or they seem to have a sort of collective consciousness, don't they?
Yes, but maybe collective consciousnesses do exist and maybe we just need to adapt the metaphysics that we got from the Enlightenment and maybe that's wrong.
Maybe this nominalism is wrong.
An individual has an individual consciousness.
Maybe that's just the wrong starting point to understand the world.
There is such a thing as an elite collective consciousness of the elite, and a collective consciousness of resistance fighters, people like you and me.
I'm sure this is the first conversation we're having, but it feels like we've been brothers and friends for our entire lives.
Oh, totally.
I feel exactly the same way.
Tiwi, hold that thought.
I'm just going to check whether the lamb, whether my son has turned down the lamb, so I don't want it to overcook.
Ivo?
Can we turn down the lamp?
- Good, thank you. - Yeah, I totally agree to you.
I'm actually on that note.
I mean, whatever terrible things are coming our way, and however appalling it is to discover that the cosy world you thought you were growing up in is actually just a kind of a psy-op, And that it's much, much worse than you think.
Despite all that, I wouldn't change anything for the world because the people I've met in the last two or three years, it's like I've understood, I've become part of this community that, I hate the word community, but we who know, it's just amazing.
Yeah.
I mean, I see it as a manifestation of the divine, a manifestation of God.
I think it's no coincidence that so many of us are Christians.
But you've been a classmate of Michael Gove, haven't you?
I totally have!
And you knew Dominic Cummings obviously intimately?
No, do you know what?
I never met Dominic Cummings but I have met a lot of these people.
When I do the podcast I will tell you all about it.
When I come over to Amsterdam we can talk about this.
I was educated alongside a lot of these people, you know, at school I was with the guy, the chief medical officer, the guy who became chief medical officer at university.
I was there with two prime ministers and... You mean Crick Davies?
Yeah, Dave Cameron and Boris Johnson and so on and so forth.
I feel like I've been given a privileged perspective on this because I've rubbed shoulders with these people, I've drunk with them at cocktail parties, I've probably tried to pull the same women or whatever and It's weird to see how our paths have diverged so dramatically.
One path marked good and one path marked evil.
And I'm afraid the good path is rocky, it's steep, there are probably leeches dropping down from the trees and the The path of evil is just like, you know, it's lined with gold and rubies and foie gras and, you know, I mean.
Sauternes.
Yeah, Sauternes.
Who wouldn't take the path of evil?
Which, of course, is what the Bible warns us about.
It's seductive.
And I describe the same mechanism in my book, of course.
The attractive, the seeming attractiveness of choosing power rather than truth.
But what would you say is the psychology of someone like Boris Johnson?
What's happening?
Is it just blackmail because of all the women?
It's not all the women because all the women Everyone knows about all the women and it's almost become a kind of a badge of honour for him.
Oh, he's a lad, you know, he's incorrigible, you know.
It's amazing how many women Despite knowing of his sexual track record and his infidelity, you know, and women theoretically being opposed to infidelity, I mean, I think women generally are more opposed to infidelity than men are.
Men think it's, you know, you're a lad, but women, particularly if they're married, think it's the worst thing in the world.
Yet, even these women, even these married women, I think, have been quite drawn to him.
No, I think it's much more, I think it's...
I think it's worse than that.
I think, I've developed this theory, I don't know how far you agree with me, that everyone beyond a certain level of power, not at the kind of level of junior, you know, of ordinary MP, but anyone who reaches the level of cabinet, they only get there After sufficient compromat has been acquired to make them malleable.
None of the people in any government, in anywhere in the world, is anything other than compromised, blackmailable, corrupted in some way.
And I wouldn't want to speculate on what route they might have taken with Boris Johnson, But I would say that, yeah, they've got the dirt and all this.
But yeah, I mean, some of it is overt.
For example, it's openly known that we have these things called the whips in the UK Parliament.
I don't know whether you have something similar in The whips have these little black books where they they list all the sexual peccadilloes or all the drug habits or whatever of their of the MPs so that when they threaten to get out of line they can be whipped back into into into The government's interests.
That's how it works.
Wow.
But that's what we know.
I think there's much more that we don't know about the level of blackmail and compromise.
We know that our governments are riddled with corruption.
Same, by the way, The heads of corporations.
I don't think you get to be in charge of Unilever without being eminently blackmailable.
I don't think you get charged... I mean, look at Jamie Dimon.
And the relationship of J.P.
Morgan and Epstein Island and stuff.
It's not... We're not talking somebody who likes a bit on the side.
We're talking something much, much deeper than that.
And I think that's how the world is run and how it's always been run since time immemorial.
I don't think this is a new thing.
But that implies, if that were true, let's just run with it for a sec.
If that were true, then that means that the policies they're implementing, and they have been implementing, they are very aware of their evilness.
Yes.
Yes, but the striking thing to me has been that whenever I watched these people in the eyes, looked them in the eyes, or shook their hands, I did not see that.
I did not see intent.
I've always seen a lot of stupidity, of course.
I mean, we're talking 110 IQs, that kind of thing, 115, that kind of thing.
IQs, that kind of thing, 115, that kind of thing.
This is not 135.
This is not, you know, this is a different thing.
But then, apart from that IQ thing, it's also, it's a social thing.
They just look around, they have no time.
They don't have time to read things.
Wake up at six in the morning, and at 7.30 they have their first meeting, which goes on until 10.30, and then they have to wake up very early again the next morning.
I haven't seen Deceit in eyes.
Have you?
Have you seen Lies in eyes?
Well, as Exhibit A, I present Tony Goat Eyes Blair.
I mean actually I think Tony Blair's gone beyond the goat eyes phase and he now looks just demonic eyes, purely demonic.
I mean you can see you can see evil in that man.
Some it may be less obvious but I mean, we think that we can spot a wrong-un.
But over the years, I think of all the people I've broken bread with.
People who I know for a fact, even then, were just in it up to the neck.
And I thought, well, he's a nice chap, or she's nice.
And I now know, absolutely not.
In a way, I think you need to think of everyone who is a public figure.
Even if they're not acting out, you know, playing a character in your favourite TV box set, they're all actors.
Everyone is an actor and of course the only thing they're going to do is act responsible, act caring, act jolly nice chap.
Because that's part of the deception otherwise they wouldn't be able to do what they do.
That's true but there are actors in a movie that doesn't even have a script.
They're so stupid you don't even have to bribe them.
No, I don't think that's true.
I think a lot of them are bribed in different ways.
I mean, they're bribed in... they're probably not given... well, some of them might be given brown envelopes.
But I think more often, for example, in the case of MPs, it would be...
Directorships after they leave office or positions in supranational organizations like the EU with generous salaries.
I mean who wouldn't want to be, if you were one of those politicians, who wouldn't want to be Secretary General of NATO or whatever other baubles they... I mean these are nicely paid jobs.
So that's part of the subtle corruption.
You look at in the US, it's extraordinary how rich senators become.
I mean, the entirety of the Senate, I think, is probably absolutely balls deep in monstrous corruption.
Look how rich Nancy Pelosi is.
Did she get there with her financial acumen?
I don't think so.
So what happens is that they get They have to have a certain degree of belief in the policies they're imposing, no?
No.
Absolutely not.
Totally, totally not.
I mean, Tucker Carlson I mean, I think I like Tucker, although I've got my doubts about him.
But Tucker did a very, very good, one of his rants, where he talked about the illusion of democracy in the US, whereby you've got the Republicans and the Democrats.
They've got these positions on domestic policy which seem to indicate that there is an ideological difference between them.
But when it comes to the stuff that really matters, voting taxpayers money for more war, more foreign adventurism, they all join together and they always vote for that.
This is again why I think I'm further down the rabbit hole than you.
I have no illusions about the political system being anything other than corrupt beyond redemption.
No, but I agree with that.
But it's just that I think psychologically there will be mechanisms for these people to legitimize their behavior.
I don't think they wake up and look in the mirror in the morning and say, huh, I'm going to lie today.
No, they don't.
It comes naturally to them as breathing.
They don't even think of it as lying anymore.
No, they think of it as moving along in the system.
As being part of something that will ultimately be good for them, and there are so many interests, and hey, we need to ease that up a little bit, and we need to be lean on that, and we shouldn't bring those facts to the public, because God knows what would happen if they would know.
So there's really a different psychology, which is the psychology of Uh, of maintaining an order, an established order, which they feel much more loyal to than to truth, for example.
That's, that's certainly true.
I mean, that would be the, um, I mean, even put inside the compromat thing.
That would certainly be how they would justify it to themselves or how it would have been explained to them.
They would have... Many of these people, I think, would have... I mean, those who weren't selected beforehand.
I mean, a lot of these people are selected from a very early age, long before they reach, you know, the age where they could get involved in politics.
They're spotted, probably selected for psychopathy and other helpful qualities.
But... By whom?
Ah, well, we can come to that.
I mean, you know, that's the big question, isn't it?
But I do believe that lots of people go into politics as you did.
Obviously, you want the nice pension and the perks, but yes, you go in to make a difference.
And then there comes a point in your career where you want to make the leap from what we would call backbench MP.
What do you call them in the Netherlands?
Yeah, the same.
When you want to make the leap to sort of preferment and cabinet level, you're taken into a room by the people who know, and it is explained to you.
You thought you were here to make a difference, and you had these ideas about how you were going to change things.
Let me explain to you, Sonny, about how the world really works, and who's really in charge, and this is the system.
Now, you can either remain on the back benches, or even get chucked out, or You can make yourself useful, you can become a... You know, you're not Pharaoh, and you're not Pharaoh's most senior courtiers, but you are part of the administrative elite, and you help make things happen, you smooth the path, and it cannot be any other way because the world is so chaotic and people are...
People are so disgusting, really, these useless eaters, that really, they do need to be managed, my dear.
And really, if you want your comfortable lifestyle, and isn't it rather fine what you've enjoyed so far, it could get a lot better, my friend.
Well, all you've got to do is play along and just don't rock the boat.
That's how it works.
And who is the one telling this?
Well, it's if you look at the world, are you a Christian or not?
You don't have to be.
I'm not.
It's not a test.
In a way.
In a way, right, okay.
I mean, how familiar are you with biblical teaching?
Because it's all there in the Bible.
Essentially, the world is the realm of... The devil is described as the god of this world in the New Testament.
And that is kind of the deal.
He calls the shots by God's permission.
And he being the devil, being the Prince of Lies, he's very, very good at encouraging people to do evil because evil is very seductive.
It's incremental.
So, you know, one minute it's just about kind of You know, doing something a bit naughty and then you're encouraged, well you've done that naughty thing, maybe do something a bit naughtier and so on and so on.
And eventually you're caught in this web of deceit and sinfulness and you can't really escape, you're trapped.
And I think that's how the world works.
I sometimes try and explain, sorry there's too much of me here, but when I'm trying to explain the situation to people who believe in the old paradigm, I say look, You've got a job.
Does the organisation work for you?
What's the structure?
And they say, well, you know, there's a boss and then there's... I said, right, OK.
So you get that there's a hierarchy.
And I'm sure it's the same with law firms.
It's the same with businesses.
It's the same with schools.
You've got the headmaster and so on.
Every organisation has a top tier.
The same way you have the Sunday Times Rich List which tells you allegedly the richest people in the world, although they miss out the real people with the money.
Why do people imagine that this pyramid structure stops in their own country?
The whole world ultimately is a giant pyramid with the bottom, you know, the scummy people like you and me.
And then, well, we're probably not right at the bottom, but, you know, we're fairly low down.
And it comes to a point at the top.
At the very top is Satan, although he's kind of probably underneath.
And then you've got people like the old families, you know, the descendants of the sort of...
The Babylonian families and the Phoenician families and the Egyptian families and so on and so forth, the nobility, the central bankers, there's a whole kind of, it's like a sort of series of criminal gangs which sometimes compete with one another but basically they've got the same goal which is to screw over the rest of us.
And how has such wealth been maintained over the generations?
Because you have a son and you're not even perfect in letting him make the lamb properly.
Well, it's funny.
If you look on the internet, you'll find there's footage of Jacob Rothschild talking about this very issue.
And he jokes about this.
He says, we like to keep it in the family.
We like to marry within our circles to stop the money going out.
So that would be one method.
I think that also we are talking, when we're talking about the controlling families, you know, Rockefellers and stuff, they have so much money that it's quite hard to dissipate this, especially when they are in a position as the central bankers are, the people who own the Federal Reserve, when they can just print more money.
So they're never going to be poor because they are always taking a cut of the money before they print it.
Yeah, but still, like every now and then you get someone in the family who is a drug addict, Yeah, but he'll be bumped off or he'll be put in a clinic and dried out or whatever.
They're quite ruthless.
They're not here to lose.
They've got psychopathy bred into them.
I can see, Thierry, that I'm kind of red-pilling you here, or I'm maybe even black-pilling you.
I heard you being puzzled by my remark about how I used to be for the British Empire, because I used to believe in all that flag-waving stuff, but when you realise that the British...
The model, the business model of the British Empire was the same business model of the modern American Empire, which is a sort of form of disaster capitalism.
You just go in to other countries and you rape and pollute their resources and you do it in the name of imposing, of bringing freedom and imposing, you know, bringing democracy and bringing They'll sell you a pretty story, but meanwhile they're just like Vikings.
Raping and pillaging.
I do not think that's the case with the Dutch Empire.
Oh come on, the Dutch were appalling!
Where were we appalling in your opinion?
Well, I think that the atrocities committed by the Dutch in Indonesia and places are well known.
Are they?
They're not so well known that I'm convinced they are.
Well, I don't believe that there was ever such a thing as benign empires.
I'm not saying that there weren't some nice things.
When I was in the Sudan, In 1984, this elderly gentleman approached me in, I think it was Omdurman Market, and said, why did you British leave?
It was so much better when you were running this country, and he talked about how marvellous the railways were and stuff, and the colonial administrative system.
So yeah, maybe it was run more efficiently, but I now believe that Individual nations should be free to forge their own, or rather, peoples should be free to forge their own destiny, rather than having it imposed on them, being told what to do.
I mean, I think Libya was better under Gaddafi than it was under whatever chaos has replaced him at the West's behest.
Yes, that's certainly true.
What the Dutch did in what's now Indonesia, I think can be considered as a genuinely civilizational undertaking.
And I think after decolonization, most of these countries fell prey to a new uh... imperial rule uh... which was far far worse and uh... and then we will have to look at the the economic uh... performances of these countries over the past uh... decades to come to the same conclusions zimbabwe south africa uh... there are very recent examples of course of decolonization uh... and i think uh...
The same would have been true of Indonesia if the Netherlands would have partnered up, teamed up with these people, as there were lots of propositions at the time.
My family was involved with that, by the way.
Then we would have been able to create a commonwealth that would have made the Netherlands and these beautiful nations, in what's now Indonesia, one of the most powerful conglomerates in the world.
And I think that's very interesting indeed, what the Europeans could have achieved with these indigenous peoples from across the world.
Well, yes.
I mean, obviously, I can see your argument about, clearly, Zimbabwe under Mugabe was an altogether messier, uglier place than Rhodesia under Ian Smith or the previous colonial governments.
But your point is that their deeper state has existed for centuries, which ultimately reaped the benefits of all these undertakings and all these good intentions by naive white burden.
I'm saying that perhaps Mugabe would never have happened if it hadn't been for colonialism in the first place.
This isn't to say that there are only two models, the white colonial model or the post-colonial chaos that follows.
It's possible that there is... Ooh, may I have some more tea?
So do you think Putin is part of the same group or is he actually opposing all this?
Now that's a really interesting question and that is one that divides people like us greatly.
So...
You're asking my personal view on this.
I think that the Russians are probably better off with... I think he does a better job as a leader than any of our leaders in the Western world in serving the interests of his people.
I mean, you know, if I had a choice between Putin and Biden, for example, it would be a no-brainer.
Do I think that it follows that Putin is a good guy who's got our back, teary, and actually he's looking after the little man and he's looking after and preserving freedoms and preserving the things that we celebrate as the virtues of Western civilization, the family and so on.
I think Up to a point, but ultimately he's probably controlled by the same people who are controlling the rest of the world.
You only have to look at what happened in... Who was talking about this?
Matthew Eret, I think it was, is very good on this.
What happened to, in post-Soviet Russia, the sort of the balkanization of Russia into different regions run by these despotic oligarchs was by design.
It was not a kind of an organic facet of a declining communist system which needed a new direction.
Go back to 1917, just as the Soviet Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution was financed by the central bankers, was financed by Wall Street and the central bankers, in the same way the collapse of that system was also financed and presided over by the people who Who run the world?
I think that there's the level of reality that most ordinary people, you know, the majority of people on the planet live, which is that we've got our history which has been presented to us and we've got our country that we've been told is this thing that we should be loyal to.
But then, at the level above that, there is this kind of parasite class, I call them, sorry, predator class, which treats us like sort of figures on a... do you play Risk?
There's a board game called Risk where you move...
Yeah, that's what we're like and our lives are no more valuable to them than that.
We're just figures to be moved over a board in this much grander game they're playing where world wars, revolutions and things like that are their sort of stock in trade.
They're the way that they enrich themselves, the way that they control us, the way that they keep our populations down.
That's how it works.
And so when you get to the billion plus many, many trillion level, your name is not mentioned in the Forbes 500 lists anymore.
Not, not.
Nobody knows these people.
So what do you make of Elon Musk then?
Oh, he's just a lower level, lower level pawn.
Just a poor guy!
Well no, I suppose he'd be something like a kind of a bishop or a knight maybe but he's not he's not...
He's not the Queen or the King.
And how do you know that such rich people exist?
Because if their names are not known to us, how do we know of their existence?
Well, occasionally... This is what I spend every podcast trying to do, depending on who I'm talking to.
There's a podcast I've just done with somebody who was in the Illuminati, at a very low level.
Has it been broadcast yet?
Did I miss it?
No, it hasn't been broadcast yet.
We get insights.
There are occasionally people who break ranks.
So there was a guy But they have to live somewhere, right?
for these elite families, whatever you want to call them, you know, who sort of conducted their business for them.
And he talked about this.
They're very into their Luciferian agenda or satanic. - But they have to live somewhere, right?
These people.
They do.
You see, this is the thing.
So, obviously, we've heard of the Rothschilds.
We've heard of the Rockefellers.
Their names come up.
But there are those who say, these families that are much less prominent, whose names we don't know.
But I agree with you.
We ought to know where they live.
No, but I mean if they live somewhere, if they actually live somewhere, they will have children that have to go to school at some point.
So life becomes, if you're a father, I just became a father, your life becomes very basic.
You realize that you have to make sure that the baby gets fed.
That he can cycle to school.
In the Netherlands everybody is on a bicycle always.
So he has to cycle to school.
He has to have friends.
He has to have some social life.
And you can't organize that around ultra-rich families exclusively, I don't think.
You're talking about the world as experienced by most... Scum!
Scum like me!
Yeah, well, exactly.
You know, I think that we're talking a whole other level of people.
I think that it's very difficult to try and get inside the heads of people who are Not like you, because their life experience, generationally, has been so different.
Their cultural assumptions are so different.
The amount of money available to them is so different.
Their understanding of their role and purpose in life, of the nature of the world, is so different.
You can't say, well of course they've got to learn to ride a bicycle just like any other kid.
Maybe they do, but more likely they're going to have the bicycle driven for them by a chauffeur because it's going to be a helicopter.
They're not like us and deliberately they don't want to be like us because we are not their role model.
They see us as the enemy.
They view us like Like cattle.
I mean, we are toys.
And you also believe that satanic ritual child abuse is part of this?
Well, that stuff is fairly well documented, although not that well Not that well known among the generality of the populace because it's so unpleasant to think about.
I mean, I wish I'd never heard about it because it's like, well, it just, it is the most unnatural and horrible thing, isn't it?
Abusing, sexually abusing children.
And of course, that's one of the reasons they do it, because it's an affront to God.
See, this is what I think you're missing, Thierry.
By not having Christianity.
Partly, I have it partly.
To understand the world, well, you know, maybe you're getting there.
To understand that, and I'm not judging you by the way, I'm just saying that you will never really get what's going on until you understand that what we're experiencing now is a spiritual war as much as a war in the materium.
And also, get this, consider this, Even if you do not believe that this is a battle between, essentially, God and Satan, They very much do.
Everything they do is based on rituals, on gematria, on the calendar, particularly the satanic calendar.
So, for example, they will plan things at key events, at key festivals in the satanic calendar.
So things like Midsommar.
Have you seen that film, Midsommar?
No.
No, it's a scandy film about a kind of sinister sacrifice and stuff.
So Midsommar will be one of them and Samhain, you know, Halloween.
They plan their rituals around... because they are in thrall.
To a completely different religion from the one that we Christians follow.
Their God is not God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There are lots of people that I know that have And I've read about that have pointed towards this path, but the the they in the story remains too vague for me to To entirely follow and I must say that in my life, I mean, obviously I'm, as you say, I'm very, very down, down in the global hierarchy, very low, low into the entire system.
I'm not, I'm not a billionaire, you know, I'm not.
You've got a jolly nice palm garden.
Yes, but I think I have seen some of what nobility is in the Netherlands and I've met the king several times and I know a little bit about the lives of his children and the social life that he has led before he became king.
None of it points to any of the things you're saying.
So if the royal family in the Netherlands is definitely not Part of this kind of thing that you're describing.
And they live very normal lives and they marry normal people from normal backgrounds.
And Elon Musk is not part of it.
How do you know with respect?
How do you know that Elon Musk, how do you know what Elon Musk gets up to in his, you know, he's got a private jet.
It's probably several private jets.
He can flip around the world in a way that, you know, he can flip from a known place to an unknown place in moments.
You don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
I mean, how much do you know about any family?
You know what it's like?
There are things that you talk to your wife about that nobody else knows.
And let's hope that continues, that we all get a degree of privacy in our lives.
But you just don't know what goes on in other households.
That is true, but I do know, with Elon Musk, I was just referring to what you had said.
I don't have a firm opinion about him, but you said, oh, he's a poor guy.
He's just... Oh, no, no.
Well, I think that was probably... I was exaggerating for effect.
I mean, I think in the scheme of things... Like a bishop.
You called him a bishop.
Yeah.
Or a knight.
So, apparently, there are a lot of people much higher up Who are included in the day, when you're talking about.
Yeah.
I'm very interested.
So they're, in my view, they're essentially two.
Two possible explanations for the world as it is, as we witness it.
The first is the thing I suggested in the earlier parts of this conversation, where there is a convergence of interests, like the big pharma, for example.
They have a clear interest in power, the military-industrial complex.
These things exist.
I can see that.
The Central Intelligence Agency and several other three-letter agencies, they have interests in central banks, financial institutions, I can see that.
And then there is a sort of, this is explanation first, explanation one, there is a sort of, as I said, the suggestion of a sort of metaphysical collective conscience that forms and that brings about all these policies that we see.
And an example is the scenario planning with regards to COVID, like the coronaviruses.
Everybody knew that these things were being tested in Wuhan and elsewhere.
It was a matter of elementary logic that at some point there was going to be an outbreak and they decided not to waste a good crisis.
You can't believe that, Tyrion, because you know that it was all planned out.
Event 201, the Johns Hopkins thing, it's sort of planned out, including the location of the alleged outbreak.
They even mentioned Wuhan in this document published in, what, 2019?
Yes, November.
They war-gamed every detail of the scenario.
So you can't say that this is just convergent opportunism.
That excuse was rendered erasable.
Why not?
This is the way astrologists and fortune tellers go about their things.
I mean, if you're going to develop scenarios for the outbreak of pandemics, which has been a general thing for many years, Then obviously you're going to pick one of the three or four virus types that are very likely to spread.
Okay.
The problem is, Thierry, that... Yes, my friend.
Again, again, I'm sorry to rain on the parade of your theory.
I'm going to sit under my palm trees again.
I'm fed up with that.
I don't believe that there ever was a deadly virus.
I'm not even sure I believe in viruses.
If you look at the history of viruses, the evidence for them is very, very sketchy.
I think that the whole idea of the lab leak was, you know, the lab leak that one couldn't talk about and then gradually became accepted as the excuse by the, not just the mainstream media but even the US government was promoting this as their theory du jour, that it was all those pesky Chinese.
I think you need to take a step back.
And you're already more than halfway there.
You've acknowledged that the mortality figures in 2020 were not indicative of anything outside the bounds of normality.
These were just routine respiratory problems which always take out a portion of our population every year, year in, year out.
And this was just flu, whatever you want to call it, rebadged as this deadly thing.
Yeah, definitely.
So what am I saying?
I don't believe that these people ever imagined that there would emerge a new strain, a special new strain that was different from all the other ones.
I think that's part of the lie.
Yeah, well, that's... Sorry, I'm just laughing because the nanny is playing with my son.
That's nice.
That's explanation two.
I mean, and this is a stew, by the way.
What's in it?
It's a pepeso, which is an old Tuscan stew from the terracotta builders.
So it's beef with pepper and red wine.
And that's essentially it.
And it has been on the stove for two days.
Oh, Thierry!
I'm actually, my business is, apart from being a writer and one day a week or so I'm serving the nation in parliament, I'm actually a businessman.
I have a company which is called Honest Food, in Dutch of course, Eerlijk Eten, and we take the food directly from the farmer's land And put it in boxes and send it home to people so they get fresh meat especially meat and vegetables and everything is organic and but not organic in the bureaucratic sense that it's a it's a EU
Of course, it's an EU certificate and we don't do that, but it's organic in the actual meaning sense of the word.
And people get it at home.
It's great.
And it's combined, that's the fun thing, with a website with all these cooks that explain how to make traditional recipes.
And the wonderful thing is it's cheaper than the supermarkets, it's way better quality, and we get all these emails from clients, from customers, who say we've been, as a family, we've been, you know, getting pizza and just watching television while we ate for years, but now all of a sudden our family is having dinners again.
And that's the thing that is ultimately important, of course, to have the conversation, A moment of togetherness as a family.
That's great.
Is the business doing well?
It's doing pretty well.
We still need to grow a lot.
It just started in April and I came up with the idea because of the pressure on the Dutch farmers and I wanted to do more than just talk about it in Parliament.
I wanted to actually do something for them.
So listen, I've suddenly realised that I've got to go soon because my wife will get back and she'll wonder why I haven't prepared all these things.
The lamb, right?
The lamb.
Well, the lamb.
Yeah, it's cooking slowly, I hope.
But I need to check it.
But look, the thing is...
There's been far too much of me explaining my kind of Weltanschauung to you and I really should have been pressing you on just give me the short version on what's happening with the farmers and what's happening with the different parties because as I understand it you
In reaction to the war on farmers, this new party was created and secured quite a lot of seats in your parliament.
But, as I also understand it, they're basically infiltrated from the start and they're not really the good guys they're portrayed as being.
So give me your perspective.
Yeah, that's true.
So what has happened is that all the The unease and the disagreement that exists within society about several policies, about farmers, immigration, climate change and so on, is being eased and
To some extent expressed by a new political party which is supported by the mainstream media, which is supported by the mainstream political establishment as the reasonable alternative to all these difficult things.
And it's controlled opposition.
The BBB, which is the name of the party, BBB, three B's, rather like 666, they are ideologically 100% supportive of the system.
They support all the underlying ideological assumptions.
There's a climate problem and it's caused by carbon emissions.
There is a nitrogen problem and we need to reduce our nitrogen emissions.
There is a migration problem, so we need to accept immigrants, but we need to do it with legal immigrants rather than illegal immigrants.
And of course, it's important to be in an EU We need to have an EU to arrange things, but just a little bit less and blah blah blah.
So on every Covid, they supported Covid, they supported the injections, they support everything.
So on a fundamental level, they support a war against Russia, they support a war in Ukraine.
So on a fundamental level, there's absolutely nothing That discerns, distinguishes the BBB party from any of the other mainstream, the permanent political classes, as we call them, the cartel.
But of course, it's a new phase and it's presented in a way that is sort of different and new and different language and slightly different energy about them.
So this is the tragedy of mass democracy controlled by mass media that we face.
People will just say, oh, let's have something new and let's go for her because she's presented as a realistic alternative.
And then, of course, the very next day, the day after the elections, they get sold out.
But because there's a four-year term, just like almost every other advanced democracy, that's long enough to create a new item to fool the people again at the next election.
So you'll get two or three years of uneasiness and people will be complaining a little bit and then something new will hit.
Let's say an alien invasion or whatever.
And then another mainstream party will take the gain again.
So this is a very sad thing.
All the farmers, they voted for her and now they get destroyed anyway.
Yes, this is rather what I feared.
It's funny, isn't it, how misreported, well, who would be surprised, how misreported foreign affairs are.
So lots of awake people in this country saying, yeah, but the Dutch voted in this new party and it's going to be great.
How do the voters feel, all those people who voted for this new party, have they woken up yet to the fact that they were sold a pup?
Well, as I'm sure you will recognize, most people are not ideological either.
So they have a general sense that, oh, we're paying too much for the climate policies, right?
That's their feeling.
That's their hush, their general emotion.
But their chagrin, as the French say.
But it's not that they would actually form an actual abstract opinion about, do I believe in climate change or not?
Like, period.
Like, yes or no.
And then from that follows A certain conclusion.
That's not the way people understand political questions.
And the same is true with, for example, immigration.
It's not that people will say, okay, I don't want the ethnic composition of my nation fundamentally to change.
Therefore, you know, I support this and that policy.
That's not the way people understand.
They will say, oh, we've been having these riots and some cars burned down in these neighborhoods.
So we need to control things more.
But then some politicians will say, yeah, we need to control immigration.
But controlled immigration obviously means that we're going to have legal immigration, we're going to have these centers, and they will have an asylum situation, blah, blah, blah.
And we will integrate them.
And so that's what control means to the political establishment that will use that word, that chagrin, to implement an entirely different agenda altogether.
And that is unfortunately the way in which mainstream policies will eventually continue to be implemented, no matter whom gets voted into office.
And that is why I think the only Apart from a global cataclysm which the war in Ukraine might trigger, but apart from that, the only way in which something really may change at the political level, at the general level, is the way in which communism crumbles, which is that nobody actually will believe in the system anymore.
They will crumble from the inside.
Yeah.
And I know that we have different, I just heard that you have a different theory about how the communist world fell apart.
Because in your opinion, as you just said, as far as I understood it, it was the central banking system which pulled the switch there.
But I do think that In the DDR, for example, in Eastern Germany, there was a very general disbelief amongst even the apparatchiks in the very system they were formally supporting.
And if we can get to that level, With regards to for example the climate policies where nobody where everybody will say like it's just too expensive We have to go along with it because they want it up there.
They want it.
But hey, nobody believes it anymore then You're going to see at some point.
You're going to see something fundamentally changing Briefly because I've got to go and look at this lamb, but I've got to ask you about the section in your book on Eva Wladenbroek Okay
Well, because I was, I mean, okay, number one, I'm amazed that you managed to get, to retain your position in Parliament when you were so open about your scepticism of all these things.
I'm delighted to hear there were enough votes in it.
Was it a close thing?
So, you're now referring to the... So, what happened in September, October, November 2020, just for the viewers and listeners to get the context of this, I became very outspoken in my disbelief of the COVID scare.
And I said openly that I felt that our freedoms were being restricted by Billionaires and the big pharma mafia and all of that.
And I felt that this was the fight that we had to fight.
And so what happened was that all the, as I call them in the book, conservatards, and I described this fight within a little bit, they fell.
And this has happened within the conservative party, the Tory party in Britain.
This has happened within the Marine Le Pen movement, the Vox in Spain, the Republican Party, even Trump.
Are they all getting infiltrated?
Absolutely.
And not just infiltrated, but completely surrounded by these people.
They couldn't move an inch.
They were completely surrounded and couldn't criticize these main trends that were being imposed.
Through them and upon them.
But I was unique in the Western world for being the only elected politician to speak out.
And what I faced was the same kind of infighting.
And so what happened in September, October, November 2020 was that within my party, and my party was doing very well.
We were high in the polls and so on.
Everybody was looking at us.
The people were saying, let's consolidate.
Let's not talk about COVID.
Let's just go along, right?
Let's just talk about immigration a little bit.
The EU, these lower taxes, you know, these trusted issues, so we can be in government the next year.
And then all will be fine.
And I was absolutely convinced that that was not what we should do.
We should speak out.
We should be there.
We should form a resistance.
And there were a number of people.
And one amongst them was indeed Eva Vlaardingerbroek, the one you just mentioned.
And you will probably mention her because she's become a little bit well-known now in the English language world.
She's sometimes on the Mark Stein show and she's indeed very good at all the things she's saying.
She's photogenic and but she said she sounds like she's really one of us and she's she's yes yes you know that's a very odd thing that's the thing I still don't really understand And as a matter of fact, I described in the book, she was a girlfriend of mine for some time.
So we knew each other on a personal level.
And then I elevated her to some party ranks.
And I thought she was going to be one of the faces of the party.
And I was convinced she was with my best friend at the time, Julien Rochetti, who was also an outspoken guy in France, who was very sound on most issues.
So I felt this was a very secure bet.
It was a good choice.
She was not going to betray me and she was going to present the conservative message in an appealing way because obviously she looks very nice and she's vocal and so on.
But she was completely taken up by the conservatards and she was one of the leading people In the attempted coup against me, and she called on live television to say that I was, you know, an anti-Semite and a racist, blah, blah, blah.
All these stupid, empty things that they always say against people who speak up against the mainstream.
But the thing is, I've never spoken to her again because then I won the fight.
I won the fight within.
I was not supposed to win it but I pulled some tricks and I did some moves and a fox never forgets how to fight.
So I fought very hard and I won.
I won back my party and then I turned the party into a freedom party and a resistance party.
And that's the rest of the story I tell in the book.
But I never actually heard from her anymore.
I would have expected.
Actually, as a matter of fact, two weeks ago, I wrote her an email.
I sent her a text message, actually, to say, look, I had expected from you to apologize, to at some point come back and say, look, I was completely taken by this hunger for power or whatever, you know, whatever the story is.
I was taken up by the pressure of the moment.
I was wrong.
You know, I've understood things better now.
You were right after all.
And maybe we can talk about it, whatever.
She never did that.
And so I wrote to her and I said, perhaps we can talk.
I had been waiting for you to come back at me at some point, but you didn't.
So now I am taking the initiative.
Maybe we can talk about it.
And she has not, she's not responded.
I can only guess what's going on in her mind or what has been going on in her mind.
My personal view is that Her ego and her ambition for power took the better of her at that time.
And that it would be indeed a very beautiful thing for her to talk about that in openness and to write about it.
It's something that can happen to essentially to all of us.
And I'm not beyond the capacity to forgive people.
I'm very willing to forgive.
But it is a very, very interesting thing that indeed can happen to people, which is also which sort of fits into my theory, which is an opposing theory to your theory of what is happening in the world, because apparently people can indeed be manipulated into, into, into betraying their very ideas.
For power.
And you don't need to include them, formally include them in any conspiracy.
It's just, it's a natural, it's an instinctive feeling that people draw to power.
People are drawn to that and they have ambitions and they want recognition and they want finally to be on the stage and blah blah blah.
And that's what I think happened to her.
It can happen to all of us.
I think the book is important because it tells the reality of power.
Thierry, I could talk to you for hours.
Yes, you must go to your lamp.
Go to your lamp.
But I've got to, so we've got to fix up this date when I come and see you.
Yeah, I am basically willing to receive you whenever you are willing to come to Amsterdam, with or without your family.
Both are, you individually or the family entirely, are very welcome to be our guests.
Of honor.
We will take you on a canal boat.
We will have Indonesian traditional colonial food with you.
Oh, I like Indonesian food.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That would be good.
And we will have a wonderful podcast in live studio because it's my conviction that Zoom calls are from the devil.
I'm sure you're right.
I'm sure you're right.
Anyway, it's been really great talking to you.
We could have gone on for hours, but that lamb, as you say, needs tending.
Thank you.
So where can people find you, Thierry?
Any products you want to... Yeah, I think Twitter is my main...
My main channel is Thierry Baudet, the French name Thierry Baudet in French, that's on Twitter.
You can also find my books on amsterdambooks.com.
I'm on Instagram.
More about the party on FVD, that's Forum for Democracy, fvd.nl.
We also have an international network.
It's FVD International.
We're on Telegram.
We're on YouTube, obviously.
I've made these English language series about my ideas about cultural Marxism and all of that.
People can watch that.
There's quite a lot of stuff that's also subtitled, my speeches in Parliament.
And I would be most excited to hear from the audience, if people have watched this and they found it interesting, Do write me an email, it's very accessible, it's just Thierry, so that's my first name, at fvd.nl and I will read it personally and I will be very excited to hear from you, from anyone.
That's great, thank you Thierry.
It only remains for me to thank my, well especially the people who support me.
I love you, I really appreciate it.
You can support me on Locals is a good place.
Locals you get early access to all my podcasts and vidcasts and stuff.
You can buy me a coffee.
There's still Patreon, there's still, Substack is good for my writings, Subscribestar, but I think Locals is better.
And thank you very much for your support and please come to my events as well because they're really fun.
You get to meet the, you know, people who are awake and it's great.
It's like a party of best friends you never knew you had.
Thierry, thank you very much again and see you in Amsterdam.
