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Feb. 11, 2023 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:17:15

Bart Sibrel

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	I love Danny Paul!
	Come and subscribe to the podcast, baby!
	I love Danny Paul!
	Unless another time, subscribe with me!
	I love Danny Paul!
	Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Delling Pod.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I'm absolutely delighted to be welcoming back to The Delling Pod, Bart Sabrell.
	Bart, welcome back to The Pod.
	I know that you've got some really interesting stuff to tell me.
	Developments.
	Is that right?
	That's correct.
	But before we go there, I want to just revisit our original podcast, which had very mixed reactions.
	I'd say more mixed than my average podcast.
	I think mostly people are on board with what I'm saying.
	But I'm just going to read you samples of the kind of reaction it got, because some people just loved it.
	OK, here you are.
	Thank you, Bart.
	You are so brave.
	What an undertaking.
	Even one of the stories you mentioned in passing is simply astonishing, how you survived somehow.
	James did not ask if you think the moon is flat.
	I don't know what that's got to do with it.
	Thank you for sharing your unique experiences.
	The content of this interview reflects your courage, and it has been an honour and privilege to have the chance to witness your testimony.
	Thank you, and thank you, James, for your questions and this interview.
	So, Bart, I would guess that that probably represents the majority of the responses.
	And it's interesting, because that person there obviously was unfamiliar with the moon landings are fake theories.
	In a way, those are the people I most wanted to see you.
	People who'd never heard of this stuff before and just had their eyes opened.
	But also, there was a lot of pushback as well.
	One person actually cancelled his subscription to my Patreon.
	Thank you, thank you Bart.
	He was so furious because I was such a gullible idiot and I wasn't doing my homework and what the hell did I I think I was doing having this crazy moon landing conspiracy theorist on my podcast when clearly moon landing conspiracies are a psyop to discredit those of us who are trying to fight about things that really matter.
	I mean, you must get that a lot.
	I haven't heard that one.
	No, I have heard of people getting angry and that's all the more proof that they did fake it.
	Because when people start foaming at the mouth over something and start insulting as a part of their defense, whatever they're defending is wrong.
	So that type of reaction... I think you're right.
	Yeah, isn't correct.
	I think that the moon landings are such An important part of people's...
	Paradigm worldview whatever you want to call it that I was I was for when the moon landings Happened when the first man landed on the moon, you know Neil Armstrong and all that you may have heard of him And so it's for most of my life I've been bombarded with with proof that you know, I mean, it's it's it's so embedded in our culture so when you when you are you something like you but comes along and says
	You know this stuff that you saw on TV and you believed in, you were emotionally invested in, and you collected the Shell... Shell Garages did these tokens that you could collect, and I collected them all, showing the astronauts and stuff.
	People are so emotionally invested in this, because it's like a pop song, it's part of their childhood, it's the soundtrack of their youth.
	And you're telling them, actually, you've been lied to.
	They don't like it, do they?
	No, it's because it's become a god to people.
	And it's like taking candy away from a child in a candy store.
	And imagine Santa Claus, for example.
	You have two possibilities.
	While you're asleep, your parents get the present out of the closet and put it under the tree.
	Or there's this magical creature That has flying reindeer, and travels to every home in the world in 24 hours with magic, and that's much more interesting.
	And people literally made a god out of it.
	Apollo is a god, and the Greek word means Lucifer and deception.
	They're telling you what's going on right in front of your eyes, and then there's no independent press coverage.
	See, there's no way to verify, like World War II had millions of eyewitnesses.
	The Holocaust had millions of eyewitnesses, and yet the moon landing is just a TV picture from the government.
	We have to take their word for it.
	And no one has the electronics to track it, except people who are in on it.
	So, there's something about Kennedy assassination.
	I mean, whoever killed him, he's still dead.
	Whoever did 9-11, they're still dead.
	This is a positive lie.
	The country was at war in Vietnam.
	Thousands of Americans were dying.
	Nixon said the greatest threat to America wasn't North Vietnam or Russia or China.
	It was Americans protesting the federal government.
	So they gave them something to cheer about.
	When someone gets down on their knees and weeps and prays and cries and waves their American flag and then you tell them it wasn't real, they're mad at you.
	They're mad at you for telling them the truth.
	That's why famous writers said it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
	Carl Sagan said the very same thing.
	It's a quote in my book, which is at Sybrel.com.
	He said, once someone has bamboozled you, it's really hard for you to give that up.
	There's some pride involved, too.
	They'd have to admit that they were wrong.
	I had pictures of the moon landing on my wall in my bedroom for 10 years in a row.
	I saw pictures that claimed to be met on the moon 3,650 times before I considered the possibility that perhaps they didn't do it.
	That's a lot of brainwashing.
	I overcame it by having an open mind.
	When I talked to a professor at Aerospace University who tells me plainly That even if he heard Neil Armstrong confess on national TV that the moon missions were fake, he'd still think he walked on the moon anyway.
	That's someone allegedly with a high IQ teaching university, who will not under any circumstance admit the moon missions are wrong, even if Neil Armstrong told him so.
	So there are people like that, and when someone reacts like that, I got emails from people, James, that said they were so mad at me for saying that the moon missions were you know fake how dare I say such a thing that they wish that they could watch me and my family burn alive before their eyes now all I'm saying is that the American government lied at least on one occasion the fact that they foam at the mouth
	Become a rabid dog by saying the moon missions were fake is all the more proof that it's fake, because they have a distorted view about it.
	I saw some TV show where they pointed out that a dog has 200 times the sense of smell than a human.
	And basically that's what the dog goes by.
	Smell this and smell that.
	That's why they're always sticking their head out the car.
	It's like a sensory movie in smell going by.
	So they made a really good quality mask of their owner and they put it on someone who wasn't their owner.
	This person walks in the room and the dog is convinced that this stranger is their owner, overlooking its 200 times greater sense of smell because the visual of the face of their owner has captivate them.
	The public overcame the logic That they can't go from never being in space to walking on another world in eight and a half years, when it took so long just to lift an airplane off the ground.
	And they overcame their senses because of the visual, and it was something they wanted to believe.
	They wanted something to cheer about when the country was falling apart.
	They wanted America to be great.
	They wanted science to be great.
	They wanted their team to win the Super Bowl.
	And if you tell them that their team cheated, even though it's true, they're ready to punch you because they're emotionally involved and not seeing it objectively.
	Can I pick you up on one of your points that you made?
	It may be trivial, but I think a lot of people will have been kind of thinking what I'm thinking.
	I don't think your example of the Second World War was very good.
	The fact that an event has lots and lots of witnesses does not mean... I mean, obviously no one's disputing that between 1939 and 1945 there was a massive conflict.
	I think that Everything about the Second World War that we're taught is at least as suspect as the moon landings, and the fact that there were many witnesses spread about the world does not in and of itself mean that the narrative that we are given about the Second World War is true.
	I think it's all a complete pack of lies.
	It kind of undermines one of the arguments that you have, I know, about the moon landings, which are constantly put by sceptics, or no, what are they called, the people, debunkers, the people who've elected themselves the role of debunking people like you.
	And they say things like, well, 400,000 people, or whatever, were involved in the NASA program.
	How can they all have, you know, How can they all afford them for this lie?
	Well, we know.
	We know that people can be deceived on a massive scale.
	So, anyway, that was just by the way.
	Let me read you another complaint I had, which I think is...
	It might be unfair, given that you've got your website, and you've written books about this, and you have provided evidence of your theories, but this person says, have you checked Sibrel's proof, in inverted commas, or his sources?
	They are extremely suspect, and for the most part, we just have his word and interpretation to go by.
	Nothing amounting to any real evidence.
	I suspect that person's not going to be very easily convinced.
	Well, that person wasn't paying attention because if they go to Sibrel.com, S-I-B-R-E-L.com, we show a tape of the NASA, the astronauts, from their own archives that's dated three days into the flight, claiming that they're halfway to the moon and the lights come up and it's a one-foot model of the Earth they have constructed.
	We have a third track of audio of the CIA telling them how to fake a shot.
	And then, if that's not proof, I don't know what is, I showed that very tape to the news director at NBC, and he said this would prove in a court of law that they didn't go to the moon.
	So I don't know what that person is talking about.
	They obviously don't have an open mind.
	And then NBC chickened out.
	The guy said, yes, it proves that the moon missions were fake, but I will not go down in history As the man who caused the Civil War.
	Can you imagine that?
	10 years go by, another news director sees it.
	They are also convinced it proves the Moon Landings are fake.
	They say we're going to broadcast this nationwide.
	They pay me thousands of dollars for licensing it.
	Exclusive rights.
	fly me to the Waldorf Astoria Hotel, interview me.
	Days before the broadcast, someone from the federal government called them up and threatened them not to broadcast it.
	Now, that's not proof I don't know what is.
	And then you can prove the moon landing fraud from a simple photograph.
	Just go to sabrell.com, click on the top button, Moon Man video link number one, and I'll show you a picture that they claim was taken on the moon where shadows from objects five feet apart intersect at 90 degrees.
	Now, sunlight is parallel in all circumstances, so if shadows are intersecting at 90 degrees from objects 5 feet apart, That they claim are lit in sunlight, that's a scientific impossibility.
	So is the fact that NASA today can only send an astronaut 1,000th the distance to the moon, which is 250 miles to the space station.
	That's why the Artemis project that allegedly orbited the moon Did so with mannequins.
	I mean, how can they be playing golf and driving cars on the moon 50 years ago with 1 millionth of computing power cell phone when today they can't even, you know, orbit the moon with people.
	It has to be mannequins.
	So what they're saying is They had a thousand times greater space-traveling capability in 1969 than they do today, which means there was greater technology in the past than in the future, which is a scientific and historic impossibility.
	So you can prove it with that.
	And then if I saw somebody shoot somebody, my eyewitness testimony is, you know, legal tender to convict the person.
	And we have a gentleman who was there at Cannon Air Force Base, and I witnessed them filming the fake moon landing.
	So, all of this is in my book at Siprell.com.
	That person obviously did not look into it.
	And to say that, you know, Wells Fargo is not cheating and embezzling money because they have 400,000 employees is ridiculous.
	What the bank teller knows and what the CEO knows about corruption are completely different.
	You really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the guy making the glove or the door or the boot, hey, we're really not going to the moon, be sure not to tell anybody.
	We interviewed a guy who was at command center, okay, in the heart of NASA during the launch, and he said during the launch we were just kicked back watching TV like everybody else.
	They could tell no difference whatsoever between a rehearsal flight and the real thing.
	So if someone in Command Center can't tell the difference, I don't see how your unobjective follower could do it.
	They just won't let go.
	They won't admit they were fooled.
	They won't admit the glorious moon landings are fake, because they're emotionally tied to it.
	I kept an open mind.
	And I was the biggest fan I knew of the moon missions.
	Who else had pictures of Apollo 11 on their wall that they saw 3,000 times over 10 years?
	You just have to have an open mind, and the facts are the facts.
	The federal government, they're a bunch of liars.
	Robert Kennedy Jr.
	says his uncle was killed by the CIA.
	I interviewed the widow and the son of Apollo 1 astronaut, the guy who would have been the first man who walked on the moon, and he was murdered by the CIA.
	Not my opinion, the opinion of the dead man's wife.
	So, I mean, I don't know what more proof you need.
	All you need is an open mind, and obviously some people don't have it.
	Tell me about the murder.
	This is Grissom, isn't it?
	That's right.
	Well, I interviewed Betty Grissom for four hours.
	She's the wife of Gus Grissom, who was the commander of Apollo 1, who was going to be the first man on the moon, because he was the most beloved astronaut in the Corps.
	And the day before he died, which was January 26, 1967, he came home and told his wife, for some strange reason, The CIA is all over the launch pad.
	Never been here before.
	Why did they show up today?
	The guy's dead the next day.
	Because a few days earlier, he held a press conference without permission, where he invited in the media all the way up 36 floors to the top of the rocket, Where he hung a lemon the size of a grapefruit on the top of the rock and he said this thing is a piece of junk.
	A wired intercom between two buildings won't work.
	A pole with a bag on it to pick up a moon rock is falling apart when we're rehearsing picking up a moon rock.
	He said we're a decade away from going to the moon minimum.
	And he was murdered by the CIA.
	Not my opinion.
	It's Dead Widow's opinion.
	So, that's what's going on.
	What happened to that press conference?
	I mean, are there any records of it?
	Is there video footage or anything?
	Of Betty Grissom?
	No.
	The press conference he did when he put the lemon on top of the rocket.
	Well, there's some photographs and there's some eyewitness testimony of it.
	His wife told me about it.
	Was it quite small, the conference?
	Yeah, no, it wasn't a press guy.
	The press corps hung out there during the Apollo rocket.
	I mean, there are press guys there all the time, kind of camped out there on an ongoing basis, and they do report about this test and that test, and he grabbed a couple of them.
	He was frustrated.
	He was preparing reports to his senator because he couldn't understand why he made, you know, a list of a hundred items that needed to be fixed, and they wouldn't fix any of them.
	Because they knew they weren't going to the moon and hadn't told the astronauts yet, and why bother fix all this stuff?
	And he just didn't know what was going on.
	And then Bill Kaysing, who was a high security clearance employee at Rock-N-Dyne, who worked for NASA for six years, said as soon as the department would get their act together and figure out what they were doing, They would break up the group and bring in new people so that no one would see the whole picture of what was going on, that none of this stuff worked.
	Why would NASA intentionally destroy a $200 billion investment?
	They destroyed the hardware of the Apollo moon rocket.
	They destroyed the electrical diagrams, the schematics, the original telemetry to where the rocket really was, and the original videotapes.
	If the 747, I'm sorry, the B-52 bomber, was built 70 years ago, and there's still 200 of them in service, right?
	Why would they destroy a rocket that could so easily go to the moon and back six times?
	If you really went to the moon, you would never destroy that equipment, but if you were committing a fraud, you would destroy everything, which is what they did, which is proof of the fraud!
	Sure, but, hang on a second, I'm gonna... Ridiculous!
	I've got to pause you there, because you actually, this is what I know annoyed some people in the previous podcast, because I'm familiar with this material, you're familiar with this material, but you segued then from the assassination of What's his name again?
	Gus Grissom.
	You segwayed from that into the destruction of all the telemetry data and all the records.
	It's because you're so familiar with this stuff that you can do that.
	But people who don't know this shit, they're just going to be going, well, why is this guy moving on?
	On to, to this stuff.
	When I was, we were talking about something else at the time.
	So if you don't mind, we're going to slow you down at points because otherwise people will get, will get lost.
	Just, just to sort of some, some background.
	A lot of people say, The almost the most commonly asked question is why would they do this?
	Now let me outline what I think happened and you can tell me whether I'm right.
	So 1961 was when Kennedy, I think, announced that we were going to put a man on the moon, right?
	And he gave himself a sort of 10-year window.
	They pumped lots of US taxpayer resources into this enterprise and recruited the brightest and best.
	And there came a point about 1967, When they realised that there was no way they were going to complete this project successfully.
	At which point, they either had to lose face massively before the American public, or fake it.
	And so from 1967 onwards, pretty much, that's when it went into fake mode.
	And as you suggested, not even the top astronaut of his day, Gus Grissom, was in on it.
	That's how little information was passed on to the participants.
	Is that a fair summary so far?
	Yes.
	Kennedy misspoke.
	He's not a scientist, he's a visionary.
	They were late at everything.
	The Soviets launched the first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacewalk, the first crew of three, the first of two spacecraft at the same time.
	For every 10 hours we spent in space, they spent 50 hours.
	They were so much more advanced.
	So when our astronaut went up for the first time in outer space for a total of 15 minutes, when they orbited the Earth, when their first time, we went from like Florida to California, he misspoke as a visionary and said, hey, let's set a goal to go to the moon by the end of the decade.
	He later regretted that, but he says it's too late.
	It's like two Irish boys and one takes the hat of the other, he throws it over the wall and now you have to go get it, he says.
	I don't think we're going to be able to do this.
	I had a document that someone gave me from the Kennedy administration that they were already talking about faking it during his administration.
	Really?
	We had people on his staff who suggested Bombing Americans and blaming it on Cuba.
	They put that in writing.
	Yes.
	And what would be faking a TV image compared to that?
	That's what people don't understand.
	Robert McNamara on his deathbed said the whole reason why they had the Vietnam War to get public support was this alleged attack from a North Vietnamese ship on an American ship.
	And they said on his deathbed that the CIA and he just made that up.
	So that led to the death of 3 million people and 58,220 Americans.
	So if they're willing to kill thousands of their own people for no reason, they're willing to fake an image on television.
	And what this really proves, James, is that the people who run our country are immature.
	Because faking the moon mission simply because you said you were going to do it and couldn't do it is juvenile.
	We have a bunch of immature children running the world in our country.
	They don't have the guts or the maturity to admit their own mistake.
	That they set a goal they couldn't do, so they faked it.
	My source was at Cannon Air Force Base, which is in Clovis, New Mexico.
	Cannon Air Force Base is the headquarters of the Special Ops of the Air Force.
	And he eyewitnessed them filming the fake moon landing June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968, and said so on his deathbed.
	And then I got from him a list of 15 eyewitnesses that President Johnson personally gave him Who was there the first day of filming that these VIPs were allowed in to eyewitness the fake moon landing.
	And that way they could guarantee its success rather than killing people on national TV.
	Because William Kaysing who had high security clearance and worked on site for six years during the Apollo program said he personally read a memo and edited it From Von Braun to the Pentagon that warned them the odds of going to the moon on the first attempt with 1 millionth of computing power cell phone was a 1 in 10,000 chance.
	I mean, NASA has never kept a schedule, not one time in their entire history, except the most complicated one of all time.
	They were ahead of schedule.
	They said they were going to put a telescope just into Earth orbit.
	They're 10 years behind schedule.
	In 2014, they said they're going to have people orbiting the moon.
	In 2018, double that time, and they only have mannequins orbiting the moon.
	So, we've had eight presidents say they're going to return to the moon in five to ten years, and it's never happened.
	So, this is just the way that it is, and you have to face facts.
	Yeah, I get that.
	So do you think it You say that even at the time of the Kennedy administration there was a view abroad that it was not going to be possible to do this, so it would be necessary to fake it.
	But let's suppose that this didn't really become crystal clear until after Kennedy was dead.
	What does that say about the... Okay, so from 67 onwards they decided to go full fake.
	What does that say about the subsequent moon landing Missions.
	At that point, had it become a kind of a black budget operation?
	That is, that the Deep State or the various defence industry contractors and stuff had realised that this was a way of making lots and lots of money at the expense of the American taxpayer.
	And so they just thought, let's fake a few more missions and see how far we can get it.
	Is that what happened?
	Absolutely.
	It came out during the Iraq War that Halliburton, I think, was charging the taxpayer $40 for a 50-cent plastic ice cube tray.
	And so a Moon Rover, which has about one-tenth the parts of a Jeep, In today's dollars, the taxpayers were charged $100 million each for those.
	And seeing how they only did Earth orbit, and here we are 50 years later, and that's still all that they can do, they probably kept about three quarters of that money, and who knows what they did with that?
	Went into Cambodia, Laos, whatever Congress didn't approve.
	And can you name...
	Have you ever looked into the companies that benefited from this?
	I mean, okay, I totally accept that this was a black budget.
	I would imagine that some of the money went to the CIA and stuff like that, but some of it must have gone to... I mean, were there any sort of named people who benefited from this or any companies?
	Who made like bandits during the moon landing, the fake moon landing period?
	Well, all the aerospace contractors got really good contracts.
	They didn't really have to build equipment that worked because it didn't work.
	They never used it.
	And then they destroyed all the diagrams so that years later you couldn't prove that it worked.
	For example, the Lunar Module claims it sits in a 250 degree temperature and gets down to a comfortable 72 degrees of air conditioning for three or four days on a bank of car batteries.
	That's just a mechanical impossibility.
	That's why they destroyed the diagrams and the electrical schematics, because that could be proven.
	So there are many people who benefited from it, and who knows what they did with that money.
	They did something with it, and one of the things they did with that is they hired the CIA agents to murder the crew of Apollo 1.
	I mean, think about that.
	They're taking money out of your bank account, because if you don't pay your taxes, They remove it from your bank account, so they're taking at least a third of our labor, not only to fake the moon landing, but they're hiring CIA agents.
	And paying them to murder our neighbors who are trying to expose the crimes.
	That's what the second to the last chapter of my book is called, which is at Sobrelle.com.
	It's audio, I read it, or Kindle or print.
	It's called NASA's Greatest Fear.
	If they had just faked the moon landing and never killed anybody, you might even kind of respect their artistry.
	But the fact is, they don't want the moon landing fraud to come out, and there's all these hundreds of videos to defend the cardboard moon landing, which wouldn't be necessary if they're real, because if the truth comes out, the very next thing they're going to investigate is Betty Grissom's lawsuits that her husband was murdered by the CIA, he was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, and he wouldn't cooperate with the fraud, so they got rid of him.
	So the first document of America isn't the Constitution, it's the Declaration of Independence.
	And it says that when any nation becomes destructive of the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, it is to be altered or abolished.
	And the criminals want to stay in power.
	They don't want to be altered or abolished.
	And yet, They're murdering their own people to cover up their crimes.
	Not my opinion, the opinion of one of the murdered victims' wife and son, who's a 747 pilot, who have proof that their husband and father was murdered by the CIA for not cooperating with the moon landing fraud.
	And then we have a gentleman who was the chief of security at Cannon Air Force Base, and the new information, if you want to hear it, is not only... I do, I do.
	Not only did he confess to eyewitnessing the moon landing fraud standing beside President Johnson, okay?
	What he really confessed and really got off his chest, what was really important for him to confess, was that he murdered a good friend, a co-worker, to keep it a secret.
	He was going to tell the media because he thought it was morally wrong.
	So what he really confessed is that he murdered a co-worker During the course of his life, and the reason why he did it was to cover up the moon landing fraud.
	So, that I did not put in my book because his son was still alive.
	And I didn't even publish his name in my book.
	His name was Cyrus Eugene Akers.
	And he's the one who admitted that he murdered somebody to cover up the moon landing fraud.
	That happened either in 1968 or 1969, so if someone out there wants to do a little digging in the local newspaper or police reports, what employee of Cannon Air Force Base during one of those two years either disappeared or died under mysterious circumstances, that's the person that Cyrus killed.
	And he was fearful he wasn't gonna do right on Judgment Day and wanted to get that off of his chest and he did.
	And he explained that the reason why he murdered somebody was to cover up the moon landing fraud.
	You don't make up on your deathbed that you're a murderer.
	You know?
	You don't do that unless it's true.
	No, you don't!
	Yeah.
	So, did you record this on the tape recorder?
	His son did, and then the house was burned down shortly thereafter.
	In fact, his son, after he told me this information, his house was broken into and all the documentation about his father that they could find was taken, and then a few days after that, he was threatened face-to-face by government agents that if he ever spoke to me again, they would kill him and his family.
	Now this was less than two years ago, and so this is very serious.
	The government is afraid if the moon landing fraud comes out, even though it killed fewer people than 9-11, it's the one fraud that if the public knows about, it's going to enrage them the most.
	All those emails you got from people just mad that I would say such a thing, If it comes out that it actually was fake, think how mad they're going to be then.
	The government knows it.
	They know the Apollo 1 fire would be looked into, that they're guilty of homicide as well, and it would be the biggest shake-up the federal government has ever seen.
	And that's what they're trying to prevent by covering it up.
	I totally, because of everything I've read and learned from you about the whole moon landing fakery, I totally believe what you're saying and you have no reason to lie.
	But I can see why a sceptic, somebody who was determined to believe that moon landing deniers were idiots and kind of After clickbait and, you know, tinfoil hat, you know, all the things that get chucked at skeptics, they would say, well, this is just hearsay.
	This guy is talking about, you know, he could have made this up.
	I mean, is there any way you can...
	Yeah, go to Sibrel, S-I-B-R-E-L dot com, and you'll see in my film, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, which cost a million dollars, which was financed by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows it's fake.
	It's NASA's footage.
	They used the very same footage in all their reels of Apollo 11 claiming that this is the Earth floating in space out the window as they're halfway to the moon.
	And I have the unedited version where the lights come up and it's a one-foot model of the Earth.
	And then we have an audio track of the CIA telling them to create a fake radio delay.
	As if they're halfway to the moon when they're still in Earth orbit.
	So, I don't know what more proof you need to... No, I'm talking about the specifics of the guy, the dad, who was head of security, who murdered somebody and... Yeah, well, on his...
	Yeah, on my website, Sibrel, S-I-B-R-E-L dot com, right on the homepage, is his son telling us what his father told him.
	The son says, I lived right across from Cannon Air Force Base.
	Here's his picture in uniform as an MP.
	And he told me on his deathbed that he eyewitnessed the faking of the moon landing fraud and that he murdered a co-worker to keep it a secret.
	And then his son was threatened with death if he spoke to me again because he told me that.
	And what's happened to the son?
	The son is dead now.
	Yeah, he died I think February 2nd of last year and that's why I released his confession video and did not put his father's name or his father's homicide in the book because he was still alive.
	Do you reckon he was killed as well?
	The son?
	They're using cancer a lot.
	The CIA's assassinations go through fads.
	First it was heart attacks, then it was car crashes, and lately it's cancer.
	To tell you the truth, I've been on a Mac platform with non-linear editing since 1991.
	I don't know how many Macs I've been through.
	Eight, I guess.
	And let me tell you something.
	Right after Steve Jobs died of cancer, something very strange happened to the Mac platform.
	Up until his death, there was something called Secure Delete Trash.
	You take a file, you don't want anyone ever seeing again, you drag it to the trash, and instead of selecting Delete Trash, right underneath it is Secure Delete Trash, where it erases the thing six times like the Pentagon does.
	As soon as Steve Job was dead and the new guy took over, they removed that feature in their next software update, which was mandatory.
	So I doubt if he died of natural causes because he would not cooperate with the CIA.
	It really annoys me.
	The way it's impossible to get a sort of clean... Yeah, next time let's just fake a podcast.
	That's a lot more realistic.
	Yeah.
	But it's I was you were talking about how you suspected that one of your sources may have been cancered by the CIA.
	Which of course is precisely the kind of comment that for a certain kind of listener who is not so far down the rabbit hole will say, well this is just crazy, kooky, conspiracy theory stuff.
	I don't know whether you've had this experience as well.
	I've found that the last three years I've been looking into a lot of so-called conspiracy theories.
	And what I find is that the modus operandi of the enemy, whoever the enemy is, is almost exactly the same.
	Whether you're looking at 9-11, or whether you're looking at the moon landings, or whether you're looking at the whole climate change industry and the whole fake global warming agenda, they operate out of the same playbook.
	And they have a range of weapons at their disposal, ranging from ridicule, demonization, removal of funding sources, to at the other extreme, assassination.
	And you see this time and again.
	And as I understand it, They assassinate less often these days because there are so many people talking about this stuff now that it's sort of not worth their while killing them when they can just marginalise them as tinfoil hat.
	But what you say about, you mentioned Steve Jobs and you mentioned your guy dying of, you told me when we weren't recording, you said that he died of a sort of a very quick cancer, is that right?
	Yeah.
	I mean, what's really harder to believe, James, is that they went to the moon on the first attempt with 1960s technology, and they can't go 50 years later.
	You see, that's what's really illogical.
	It's not that the idea of a fraud is hard to believe.
	What's really hard to believe is that they went on the first attempt.
	Because not a single aerospace endeavor in the entire history of the world got off the ground on the first attempt, except the most complicated one of all time.
	Even the Wright Brothers' kite airplane didn't get off the ground.
	And when they made the 747 10 years after the Apollo project, they went through 168 airplane engines before they could lift that fuselage off the ground.
	And that's after millions of aircraft had already been built.
	So that's what's really hard to believe, that they had this great technology in the past that can't be replicated 50 years later, because it's never happened in the history of the world.
	That there was a technological milestone that wasn't far surpassed years later, much less could not be repeated.
	So... How far do you think that manned spacecraft have actually gone?
	Well, just into Earth orbit, because... Which is how far?
	Well, about, on average, about 250 miles.
	Just go to Sibrel, S-I-B-R-E-L dot com.
	The top left button is Moonman video links.
	One of the clips is of a NASA astronaut explaining something most people don't know, that there's this big field of radiation surrounding the Earth that doesn't start until a thousand miles up, and it's 30,000 miles thick.
	And that every man's space mission has been below that, except going to the moon, they would have to go through it.
	And he says out of his own mouth that the field of radiation is dangerous, meaning to people, and that the technology necessary to go through it and survive the radiation exposure on a trip to the moon and back has yet to be invented.
	He says we do not yet have the technology to send an astronaut on a trip to the moon.
	He says so out of his own mouth.
	What's that?
	You're talking about the Van Allen Belt.
	Yeah, and Kelly Smith, an engineer at NASA, says that the radiation surrounding the Earth is dangerous, and that the technology to survive going through it on a trip to the Moon, that they do not yet have that technology.
	So, if they don't have it today, how did they have it 50 years ago on the first attempt?
	Look at Elon Musk.
	Elon Musk wanted to land a rocket vertically.
	This is with 50 years better technology.
	He had six supercomputers surrounding the rocket to gimbal that thing to land it vertically.
	The first time, it blew up.
	The second time, it blew up.
	The third time, it blew up.
	The fourth time...
	It blew up.
	It took him five tries to land a rocket vertically with six million times more computing power than the Apollo rocket that landed vertically six times on the moon every time it tried.
	I mean, that just doesn't make any sense.
	And now you know why they destroyed the diagrams of the lunar lander, because you could prove it couldn't do it.
	I mean, they really didn't have enough fuel on the thing to land and then, you know, go back up.
	There was not the fuel capacity.
	According to Von Braun in documents that we found, he published a paper which I read in my book.
	I copy and paste it and then I read it in the second film, Astronauts Gone Wild.
	He said, in order to reach the moon in a single rocket, it would have to weigh 10 times the amount of the Queen Mary and be taller than the Empire State Building.
	Okay, well, the Saturn V rocket was one, I think, 30 thousandths percent less weight than what he said it would take to go to the moon in a single trip.
	And even right now they're saying In order for the Artemis mission to go to the moon with humans on board, they're first going to have to ferry fuel up multiple times to the space station and then from there go to the moon.
	But they didn't do that when they allegedly went to the moon.
	And Von Braun in this paper says these numbers are irrefutable.
	He said it would have to weigh 800,000 tons.
	The Saturn V weighed 2,500 tonnes, or a difference of 30,000%.
	So, as I said, this is, you know, irrefutable numbers that can't be overcome.
	Yes.
	I'll tell you the kind of world we live in.
	So, somebody on my Telegram group, my Telegram channel, Who are people who are awake, who are... a lot of them are Christians and should have this thing we call discernment.
	And somebody this morning actually quoted Neil deGrasse Tyson, and apparently Neil deGrasse Tyson has done the calculations and apparently it's... the rockets could get there.
	Have you heard this one?
	Well...
	I mean, the guy seems very likable and all, but I went to a college, probably similar to the one that he went to, and I had the second highest grade in my physics class, which was an F.
	But because of the curve, it became an A. And I suspect he graduated from such a place.
	The guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
	For him to say that he knows better than Von Braun who designed the rocket, who published in a book, that in order to go to the moon non-stop it would have to weigh 800,000 tons, And the Saturn V only weighed 2,500 tons, and they just said a month ago that in order for the Artemis rocket to carry people and land on the moon, they're going to have to make multiple fuel trips first up to the space station, and then go from there to the moon.
	The exact same thing that Von Braun said, for him to suddenly say he knows better.
	I think he shouldn't drink so much beer before he does TV interviews, personally.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Do you have any theories?
	There are quite a few prominent people in the world of space Space lore, let's say, who've made it their mission, a bit like you've become one of the primary articulators of moon landing scepticism.
	There are these people who've dedicated their lives to debunking people like you.
	Do you think, are they honest brokers?
	Have you got any theories on them?
	Are they just innocent dupes?
	One is an innocent dupe and one is not.
	I mean, I've talked to both of these people and one says he finally, when I pressed him on this, he says he's paid by NASA to say that the moon landings are real.
	I mean, he admitted he's on salary for NASA and he looks like some independent person.
	The other guy is really sincere and just doesn't know what he's talking about.
	The National Geographic hired me, paid me, filmed an interview, and because I proved that the moon missions were fake, they didn't broadcast it.
	They had a guy, get this.
	First they say, well we can't duplicate the intensity of the sun.
	So they go out to a desert at night with the spotlight and they say, we're going to, you know, imitate the conditions of the moon.
	And they say, look, you know, we have two people five feet apart and the shadows converge and intersect.
	Therefore, the moon landings must be real.
	And I'm like, because they look just like the moon pictures.
	I said, well, wait a minute.
	You're duplicating NASA's pictures with an electrical light, which means they were also taken with an electrical light.
	What do you mean you can't duplicate the sun?
	Why don't you just wait 12 hours and have two people stand beside each other in sunlight?
	You know, out in the desert.
	Why did they go at night with a spotlight?
	So the guy thinks that putting up a spotlight and having the shadows intersect, like they do in the Apollo pictures, is proof that they're real, when it's that very evidence that proves that they were false.
	Also taken with the spotlight, which causes them to intersect.
	There's that duo who claim to be Mythbusters or something, and they've made that TV program, you must have seen this, where at the end they say that there's some kind of reflective device which was left on the moon by one of the Apollo missions, and that you can shine a laser and it reflects back.
	Which sounds superficially like, oh well.
	Well, that's not true either, and they also paid me to be interviewed, and when I proved them wrong, they never broadcast it.
	And that's happened multiple times.
	Look, there's a scientific magazine from, I think it's called American Scientific Magazine, from the late 1950s.
	They were bouncing lasers off the moon in the late 50s, before any probes were there.
	And then Russia put a probe there with mirrors to allegedly bounce lasers off the moon.
	So they either chose the landing sites as reflective areas anyway, or put a probe up there with an unmanned vehicle.
	That doesn't prove anything.
	Yeah.
	So when you went on their program, what was the killer point that you made that they didn't use?
	Well, the killer point that they'd never broadcast was they basically built a miniature of the Lunar Lander set inside of a garage.
	They put a little electrical light on it and said, look, the shadows intersect just like the pictures, so they must be real.
	And I'm like, no, that actually proves it fake, because you're matching The Apollo pictures with an electrical light, which means they were also taken with an electrical light.
	Why don't you build your little miniature set in the parking lot out in sunlight, and I guarantee you the shadows would be parallel.
	And when I made them look like idiots, they refused to broadcast it.
	They're one of those people who, if they saw Neil Armstrong confessing it was fake, they'd still think it was real anyway.
	Yeah.
	You know, they're not open-minded.
	It's a myth that they went to the moon.
	That's the myth they should be busting.
	I mean, come on, it's propaganda.
	It's a myth.
	Santa Claus is a myth, and going to the moon on the first attempt with 1960s technology, when it can't be duplicated 50 years later, is a myth.
	That's the myth they should be busting.
	They're just a propaganda show.
	The same with the National Geographic, you know, magazine.
	Yeah.
	I'm just, I'm just, you know, belt and braces here.
	I just, I, I, to be honest, but I really cannot be asked to have to put up with any more people sort of having a go at me for, for being a gullible idiot and, you know, the stuff they chuck, they chuck at you.
	So I'm just, I just want to ask you.
	The thing is, if so, if someone has to, if someone has to insult you to make their point, then their point is invalid.
	Otherwise they would use the truth.
	Oh, it's even worse than that.
	It's not... They don't call me an idiot.
	It's even worse than that.
	It's more like... Well, that proves they're on the wrong side of the argument.
	Yeah.
	The thing that really gets me is the... Oh, they're disappointed.
	And they thought that I was a better journalist than I am.
	And I get... That's one of the ones I get.
	And it's like, you know, they know because they know, and you're just a fool for having not done your homework and stuff.
	I suppose that the one that they love to chuck, you've answered one of them more or less, which is that how could so many people be involved in the project and nobody spill the beans?
	But the other one they say is, so the Russians and the Chinese knew about it, they must have known about it if it were faked.
	Why haven't they Why haven't they ever called out the scam?
	Well, they're the ones who aren't doing any investigation.
	They're just looking at it superficially.
	Like I said before, the CIA isn't going to tell the guy making the glove at the door of the boot that it's fake and not tell anybody.
	And the guy in command center said he could tell no difference between a simulation and a real flight.
	And that's like saying what a bank teller and the CEO at Wells Fargo know about the corruption are identical.
	The atomic bomb involved 145,000 people and only 8 of them knew what they were building.
	Right?
	And so... If they built it.
	Are you aware of that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably not done by atom bombs?
	I don't know.
	I wasn't there.
	It was before my time.
	But as far as...
	Yeah, as far as the Russians and the Chinese, let me just throw out this example, James.
	Let's just say I had a picture of a prostitute and a world leader together.
	I could leak it on the internet and ruin the person, or the smarter thing would be to blackmail them year after year after year.
	I know someone who personally works at the Chinese Space Agency.
	And he told me everybody knows the moon missions were fake.
	In fact, when they tried, an American company tried to land an independent probe at the Apollo 11 landing site, the United States government threatened to shoot it down if they attempted to do so, which would prove the moon landing fraud.
	They teach in university in China that the moon missions are fake.
	He told me China has agreed first of all not to say it's real but also not to say it's fake in exchange for technology from NASA.
	So they keep on complaining on national news that China's our enemy or Russia's our enemy when our own government is selling secrets to China so that they'll keep the moon landing fraud a secret.
	He told me that he works for the Chinese Space Agency.
	So, I mean, Russia is smarter than that.
	If they've got something on the United States of America, if they blurt it out to the world, then it's not worth anything anymore.
	You see that?
	They blackmail them year after year after year.
	And so that's what they're actually doing, and that's why it's important for the truth to come out.
	When Orwell said, whoever controls the past controls the future, this is the perfect example of that.
	Because as long as the corrupt leaders of our government are saying in the past that the moon missions are real, when they're not, then those same criminals are controlling our destiny.
	Which means until the moon landing fraud comes out, The federal government will remain corrupt for all time.
	It has to come out in order for the government to be honest.
	It has to.
	Otherwise, it's like denying you have cancer and you're going to die from it.
	I was going to ask you about this because the whole moon landing thing has become your life.
	How long have you been doing this?
	Well, I mean, I started the film, I think, in 1994, and I finished the book, you know, last year.
	So, yeah, it's about two and a half decades.
	If you go to... Do you not get bored?
	What's that?
	Do you not get bored?
	Because I had a similar... Well, I mean...
	Ask Bobby Kennedy Jr.
	if he gets bored trying to give justice to his uncle being murdered.
	You know, what we have here is that the federal government is embezzling money from the taxpayers and using it to kill their neighbors who try to expose their crimes.
	I think that's very serious.
	And the real reason that I decided to make the movie after turning down the project for fear of my life, in case it was true, I realize, James, they have two alternatives.
	Either they could, you know, go to the moon on the first attempt with 1960s technology, whoop-dee-doo, even though they can't do it today and no one can do it today.
	Or they lied about it.
	They lied to the encyclopedia.
	They printed it on coins and lied.
	They printed it on stamps and lied.
	They teach it in university wrongly.
	They held ticker tape parades for them and gave them medals of honor for lying and then murdered people to keep it a secret.
	If that's true, which it is, that's actually more profound historically than if they had actually gone.
	It dawned on me that the faking of the moon landing It's one of the greatest events in human history, and most of the world doesn't know about it.
	And if you don't know you have cancer, you're in trouble.
	What we have is one of the greatest events in human history, the United States being so corrupt and so immature in their government, that they faked the moon landing and killed people to keep it a secret.
	That's more significant than if they'd actually gone.
	And that truth needs to be known for the benefit of mankind, and that's why I'm still passionate about it.
	Oh, by the way, you mentioned the head of security who confessed to his son, who's now dead, that he murdered one of his colleagues in order to keep the cover-up going.
	And then you said, You should go and investigate the local records to find out evidence of, you know, whether anyone was bumped off.
	Surely that should be your job.
	I mean, I'm not being rude.
	I didn't say you.
	I didn't say you, James.
	I said that if somebody out there, one of your followers, uh... wanted to take it upon themselves that it's probably the potential of finding out who that person is is is there is a reasonable uh... opportunity potentially to do so i'm exhausted i want to move on to making inspirational feature films that's right wrote the book to put this behind me
	Somebody was killed either in 1968 or 1969 who worked at Cannon Air Force Base.
	So either the local police record or the local newspaper record has somebody who worked at Cannon Air Force Base in 68 or 69 who suddenly went missing or died under mysterious circumstances.
	It's possible to find out who that is.
	There's probably only one or two people who died during that time who worked at Cannon Air Force Base.
	And you can figure out who that was.
	That's a decent sized piece of the puzzle.
	I'm exhausted and I'm tired of looking into it.
	Thousands of hours to make a funny thing happen on the way to the moon.
	Literally.
	I spent 4,000 hours just editing the movie and doing my book.
	I probably did a hundred drafts of every paragraph just to make sure I was writing it as accurately and as passionately and understandably as possible.
	Other people need to pick it up.
	The fact is you can read the book.
	You can see the links at Sobrelle.com.
	There's more than enough proof.
	That proves that they didn't go to the moon.
	If you have an open mind, you will see it.
	Now somebody in our federal government knows crimes of this and other crimes that are ongoing or in the past.
	These people need to come forward before it's too late.
	They're going to die and meet God.
	And the Bible says if you know the good you ought to do and don't do it, you're guilty.
	And it says in Ezekiel, if you know a warning that you need to give to the people and you don't give it, you're guilty.
	People need to realize that they're gonna die regardless of whether there's a God or not.
	And if they're an atheist, do they really want to go down in history as someone who gave in to corruption to live a little bit longer and to hold their property a little bit longer?
	And if they believe in God, do they not realize That they're gonna die anyway, and it's a good thing to die for a just cause.
	That's why I changed my mind, because I started reading the Bible, I developed a conviction about right and wrong, and I said, look, it's morally wrong if they fake the moon landing, and that's an important story worth risking my life for.
	And one of the chapters in Moonman, which is at sobrell.com, is called, The Funny Thing Happened on the Way To CNN where I go into great detail about how I was literally kidnapped and drugged by the CIA days after I found a classified footage of fake photography from the first moon mission and even escaped their custody.
	I was drugged with true serum and they had all these questions for me.
	I escaped.
	I got back to Nashville.
	I peed in a cup and I thought, hey, I got him, you know.
	I'm going to prove I was drugged by this exotic truth serum that only the CIA would have.
	So I gave it to a friend to put in a lab in his name, not mine.
	And after we meet a week later to get the test results, he says, well, you know, there was a problem.
	And I'm like, oh, what problem?
	Well, he says, funny thing, there was a break in at the lab over the weekend.
	And I'm like, yeah.
	And he says, well, funny thing, the only thing stolen was a urine sample.
	You know, so my little X-Files adventures are in the book in great detail.
	And this is important.
	I mean, if my source was threatened with death less than two years ago, they know that if the truth about the moon landing fraud comes out, there will be an overhaul of corruption cleaning in the government.
	And they don't want that to happen.
	And then Betty Grissom has been saying numerous times, That her husband was murdered by the CIA because he wouldn't cooperate with NASA in a criminal activity.
	And so then they'll have to investigate that and prove to the world that... Is she still alive?
	No, she died, and that's why I'm able to publish this in my book.
	She asked me not to put it in the movie because she was pursuing her own legal course of action about it, even though I interviewed her for four hours and her son for three hours.
	But now that she's dead, I put it in my book, what she told me in the contents of the interview, which is that her husband was murdered by the CIA.
	I mean, her husband basically told her that the day before he died, that the CIA suddenly appears at NASA for no reason, and the next day he's dead.
	And that was a whistleblower complaining that they were a decade away from going to the moon, not two years.
	I was going to say China is the most industrialized nation on earth, right?
	They have more factories, more hardware, more space technology than anybody, right?
	They're the ones with probes on the moon right now, not us.
	Russia is the one taking Americans to the space station, not Americans, right?
	They say with five decades better technology, it's going to take 15 years to develop the technology to walk on the moon, when 50 years ago, with one millionth of the computing power of a cell phone, they did it in half that time.
	That's completely illogical.
	Go ahead, James, you're going to ask me something.
	Sure.
	No, I was going to say that at the risk of sounding pessimistic, it ain't going to happen.
	There's never going to be this wake-up, because the kind of wake-up you're talking about would involve people waking up for everything.
	And what we know, those of us who've been, for example, fighting the whole pandemic agenda, which we know is nothing to do with a virus.
	It's about control.
	It's about the same people who are doing this as were behind the NASA conspiracy.
	We know that most people Even now would rather take the view that your university professor took that even if he had a confession from Neil Armstrong he would still believe that man went to the moon because people prefer the comfort of their familiar paradigm to the untested waters
	of a world where suddenly you can't trust any authority, you can't trust the media, you can't trust your politicians, you can't... you can't even trust astronauts who've been sold to us as these all-American heroes.
	You know, we've all... Tom Wolfe wrote the right stuff.
	I mean, I think now one realizes that everything contributed to the PSYOP.
	So when Tom Wolfe wrote a book about test pilots, That, in a way, sort of bolstered this narrative that there are these American heroes, that they did this incredibly brave thing in this tiny capsule.
	I mean, David Bowie did his bit as well, but then we know about the entertainment industry and how they lie.
	So, it ain't never going to happen.
	So, I appreciate what you've done.
	It's great for those of us who are interested in this kind of thing.
	But you're going to be, frankly, Bart, you're pissing into the wind, are you not?
	Oh, I'm with you.
	I'm not hopeful that the truth is going to come out in my lifetime.
	And if it does, it'll be a miracle.
	And if it does, It'll probably be because God made it happen.
	I believe we're living in the last days.
	And I think that God may make the moon landing fraud come out as a last wake-up call.
	If you can just imagine, imagine this James, okay?
	We're doing this interview, both of our phones are ringing, and we have friends frantically telling us that the American government admitted they faked the moon landing because Buzz Aldrin's been going around doing TV shows confessing.
	What would that be like to the American public?
	Let me tell you what I think it would be like.
	It would be like Having a glass of water thrown in your face, you wake up, you find out that you're sleepwalking, and you're one foot away from a cliff.
	People would be like, wow, is it that bad?
	Because when I popped in that classified tape that said, do not show to the public at the beginning of it, and they're faking being halfway to the moon over and over again, I just wept quietly.
	I'm like, wow, this is our world?
	They really did fake the moon landing.
	They faked mankind's greatest accomplishment.
	They quote honorable United States, light on a hill, truth telling, good guys are scoundrels.
	How sad is that?
	What a fallen world I live in.
	That's that's what dawned on me and it just was heartbreaking.
	But it's the truth, and it's better to know the truth.
	You know what men in black say?
	The bitterest truth is better than the sweetest lie.
	Is that why you went and shoved your mic in the faces of all these astronauts?
	Because a lot of them are... I mentioned last time that we spoke that James Irwin came to my school and I bought a copy of his book and He inscribed it, God walking on earth is more important than man walking on the moon, which I thought was a double-edged, you know, with hindsight it was a double-edged message.
	But a lot of these astronauts were Christians before, but certainly became Christians afterwards, and yet they've all been participating in this very un-Christian thing, which is a massive, massive lie.
	Well, the word Christian, you have to be really careful there because I think it's in James chapter 2.
	It says even the demons believe in God.
	So believing that Jesus is the Messiah doesn't save you any more than believing that the sky is blue and being correct.
	It says this is love for God to obey the commandments and this is true religion to shun evil.
	So James Irwin, by the way, contacted Bill Kaysing who wrote a book in like 1973 or 78 or something called We Did Not Go to the Moon.
	He appeared on one of the first guests on the Oprah Winfrey Show when it was in Chicago.
	And because of that publicity, James Irwin called him up.
	You can imagine my surprise if, as the leading investigator probably today, I get a call from one of the astronauts out of the blue.
	Well, James Irwin called up the leading investigator before I hit the scene and said, we need to have a talk about your book.
	He explained to Bill Casey that he had become, just become, a born-again Christian.
	And he wanted to have a really important talk with him about his book about the fake moon landing.
	Right?
	And it wasn't the author calling the astronaut, it was the astronaut calling the author.
	And it was James Irwin.
	This was August of 1991.
	Then James Irwin went on to say that he's really concerned for his safety because of this conversation.
	He told Bill to call him at a particular number three days later.
	And three days later the astronaut had a fatal heart attack because his phone or Bill's phone or both of them were being monitored and they weren't about to let that conversation happen.
	Here we are what 30 years later and they're still threatening people less than two years ago with death if they have any knowledge of the fake moon landing fraud because they are very scared for the truth to come out because it will enrage people I think more than who did 9-11 because it's Taking candy away from a baby.
	They believe, like me, it would be the finger out of the dike of all the other frauds the government has perpetrated.
	And maybe for that reason, God will let the truth come out.
	Maybe God wants us to know.
	That we're fallen, and here's a perfect example of it.
	Right before, you know, the end of time, as a little bit of a, you know, an encouragement to wake up, come clean, repent while there's still time.
	You know, what God asks isn't a whole lot.
	He just asks that you confess your sin and do your best to not do it again and you'll live forever.
	That's a pretty good deal.
	The Bible says that King David was a man after God's own heart, committed adultery, even though he had two wives, and then murdered her husband to keep it a secret.
	And that's, you know, a terrible thing to do, a murderer, and yet the Bible seems to indicate that he repented and that he may be in eternal life for having repented and confessed, even though it's of murder.
	So the thing is, though, James, all the time you've been alive and watching the news, have you ever seen a news story where some bank robber, rapist, murderer who was at large Got a conscience and turn themselves in.
	I've never seen it a single time.
	And yet that's all we have to do to live forever.
	See, Buzz Aldrin needs to meditate on what good is it to gain the whole world and forfeit your soul.
	Because I had many private conversations with him.
	He told me plainly he's a Christian and that's why he didn't swear on the Bible.
	And yes, he did not walk on the moon, but good luck trying to prove it when everyone will think you're crazy.
	You know?
	And so, he's not my enemy.
	I consider him a friend, and I wish him well.
	I also wish him, you know, eternal well.
	And it seems like for him, he's going to have to come forward and tell the truth about that in order to be right with God.
	That would be my assessment of it.
	I could be wrong.
	However, that's what I would do before I died if I were him.
	You know, if there were just one man who walked on the moon and nobody else and it was all a lie, they probably would have confessed by now.
	It's the pressure of feeling like, well, I'm confessing for all these other guys who are still alive.
	And, you know, I'm going to bring down America.
	I'm going to make America look foolish.
	Well, America deserves to look foolish if they're faking moon landing and killing their own president.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	The election interference isn't coming from Russia.
	It's coming from the traitors in our government who are murdering people like John F. Kennedy because he's going to get rid of corruption.
	That's election interference, murdering your own president, right?
	So that's coming from people in our own government and again we have the authority of the Declaration of Independence to alter and abolish any government that starts killing their own people and starts taking freedom away from their own people.
	Right?
	How can you pursue happiness if they won't let you open your business or go to church?
	Because people are coughing.
	Isn't that your decision?
	Yeah, I'm totally with you.
	I think that's a good place to... I hope that we've allayed the concerns of people who think that the last interview I didn't ask you any tough searching questions.
	I personally find that the case for... if you spend any time looking into it, the case is so overwhelming that it's quite exhausting having to deal with the rather Feeble rebuttals of the rebutters, but let's not get through it all again.
	But I know you don't like to talk about your website very often, but just remind us where we can find your stuff.
	Yeah, it's mylastname.com, S as in Sam, I, B as in boy, R-E-L, Sibrel.com.
	My book is there on audio that I read myself, Kindle in print, and I go into enormous detail, more than the million dollar movie that was financed by someone who builds rockets for NASA, who knows it's fake.
	All about the deathbed confession, my encounters with the CIA, and other Apollo astronauts who were murdered by them, not my opinion, according to their own dead relatives.
	All of that is available at Sibrel.com.
	Bart, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast again and I'm happy that you're a fellow Christian and that you are...
	You're similarly of the view that we are approaching end times and that this craziness is because Satan's getting desperate.
	Although, of course, that very remark is going to alienate a certain type of viewer saying, yeah, I knew these guys were crazy and now they've just confirmed it.
	But there it is.
	Well, you know, if I were an atheist, I would say to myself, what if I'm wrong?
	And what if there is a... Well, that's Pascal's wager, isn't it?
	Yeah, what if there is a judgment for how I live my life?
	And what if turning yourself in, you know, like no one has done that I know of, criminals, but what if you do that and you do live forever?
	Jesus said you have to repent or perish.
	So you can't, King David can't bring that guy back to life that he killed.
	He can still enter heaven if he repents.
	You see?
	So it's a two-way street here.
	God will forgive our past sin and we're commanded not to sin anymore.
	Go and sin no more, he said of the woman he forgave of adultery.
	Well, thank you, Bart.
	And dear viewers and listeners, those of you who I haven't so irritated that you want to withdraw your support, but thank you for all those who do support me.
	I really appreciate it.
	You can support me on Subscribestar, on Locals, on Patreon, and on Substack.
	And you can buy me a coffee.
	I love those of you who buy me coffees.
	If you like what I'm doing, please chip in some money.
	That's really appreciated.
	The enemy, whoever they are, are really trying to silence people like me, and it's getting incredibly tiresome.
	And I think if you want to stick one in the eye to the enemy, then just give me a tip or two.
	Thanks again, Bart.
	It's been great talking to you, and good luck with breaking away from... I would have thought, after 25 years, I would have had enough of it.
	I'd be wanting to move on to somewhere else.
	Maybe you should look into... Maybe do JFK or 9-11, something.
	Well, hopefully I'll make inspirational feature films, but if you want to see a funny thing happen on the way to the moon, a million dollar movie for free, just go to sobrel.com and see it for yourself.
	Thanks.
	Thanks pal.
	Okay, have a good one.

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