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Sept. 25, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:41:13

Father Vincent Lampert

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	Welcome to the DellingPod with me, James DellingPod.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
	How could I not be?
	I've got an actual exorcist on the programme.
	Welcome, Father Vincent Lampert.
	Great to see you.
	Yes, it's great to be with you today, James.
	So, Father, you are the designated exorcist of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Indianapolis.
	Yes, I've had that position since 2005.
	And I imagine among my audience watching this, they're going to be divided between those who think, wow, finally we've got an exorcist on, and I believe in demons, and this stuff is all real.
	And those who are going, yeah, I saw the exorcist movie, but it was fiction.
	We've moved on since the Middle Ages.
	Demons aren't real.
	I don't know whether you can guess which camp I'm in.
	I'm not sure.
	No, well, it'll emerge fairly quickly.
	I'm a Christian and so are many members of my family.
	My sister, who is also a Christian, was very peeved the other day.
	She went to a church service in the Church of England, or the Anglican Church anyway, and The scripture that day was the story about the gathering swine.
	And after the story had been read, after the lesson had been read, the vicar felt compelled to point out to the congregation that of course we don't believe in demons these days.
	We tend to think of it as mental illness.
	And she was frustrated, as I am, because I do believe in demons.
	I'm wondering whether there's anything you can do to persuade the skeptical that demons are not just a kind of movie thing?
	Yeah, I think from a Christian perspective, when we read the Gospels, When Jesus sent his disciples out, he gave them the power to cast out demons, but he also gave them the power to heal people of physical illness.
	So Jesus made the distinction between people who are suffering physically and people who are suffering from demonic oppression, if you will.
	And if Jesus makes the clear distinction between the two, And I believe that we should make that distinction as well.
	I think there's a lot of people today that would say evil is nothing more than humanity's inhumane treatment of one another, meaning it's something of our own making.
	But from a Christian perspective, I think it's very clear that.
	Demons are something very real.
	I would even suggest that one of the reasons that Jesus came was to usher in the kingdom of God and in doing so to defeat the kingdom of Satan.
	Yeah.
	Can I ask you, I mean, I think I know the answer already, but do you believe the devil as a kind of, is he a physical presence?
	Is there a devil?
	Is he real?
	Absolutely.
	So the devil is not a metaphor, but from at least a Catholic perspective, the devil is personified.
	So he is a real being, a creature of God, a fallen angel.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And is he different from Lucifer?
	I mean, I'm not so sure about my demonology, about the hierarchy of the satanic forces.
	Are they the same person?
	So I would say yes, the same person, but once Lucifer fell so the name Lucifer means.
	Lightbearer.
	The belief is that he was a seraphim angel, the highest in the choirs of angels, closest to the throne of God, so he would radiate the glory of God more than any other angelic creature.
	But it wasn't enough for Lucifer to be close to the throne of God.
	He wanted to take the place of God, so he gave into the sin of pride.
	You know, as an exorcist, I did my training in Rome.
	Back in 2006, I had the opportunity to spend three months there, and there was another priest who was training me.
	He told me that he had worked with somebody who was possessed by the devil himself.
	He even said to the demon, is your name Lucifer?
	And the demon responded by saying, I used to be known by that name, but no longer.
	Because to acknowledge the name Lucifer, Lightbearer, is to acknowledge God, who gave the name.
	And since Satan has now rejected God, then the belief is that he no longer goes by that name.
	But they are one and the same person, but since the fall, Lucifer, we would say, no longer exists.
	He's now the devil or Satan himself.
	Right.
	And so there is a sort of hierarchy of devils and demons, isn't there?
	So you've got Satan at the top, if you like, or perhaps at the bottom.
	And then do the others have names?
	Are they known to have separate characters?
	Yeah, so the belief, it's mentioned in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament.
	So when Lucifer chose to rebel against God, since he was closest to the throne of God, his decision to rebel reverberated through all the nine choirs of angels.
	And then the scripture tells us that his tail swept one third of the stars out of the sky.
	So one third of the angelic choir fell.
	And they now refer to Satan as their chief.
	And there are we know the names of other demons, some of them are mentioned throughout the Bible, such as Asmodeus.
	We think of Leviathan, Beelzebul.
	So there are names, specific names that we know.
	Sometimes the demons are just known by generic names, such as Anger, lust, pride.
	We think of the seven deadly sins, if you will.
	So, some of them have proper names, and some of them are known by the vice that they try to instill in humans.
	Right.
	I mean, I come across Baal in the Bible, and I think Moloch is... I think he features... I mean, they're into sort of child sacrifice and things, aren't they?
	Yes.
	In fact, that's a demon that I encountered in an exorcism, the demon Molech.
	And do you, when you're conducting these exorcisms, do you, is the technique the same whatever the demon or devil you're dealing with?
	It is, it would be the same, because from a Catholic perspective, exorcism is a liturgical rite.
	So there is a very specific ritual book that I would use.
	And so the process would begin by Blessing the person with holy water, reminding ourselves of our baptism into Christ.
	I would read from Scripture, the Psalms out of the Old Testament.
	Out of the New Testament, I would do gospel readings, where Jesus is casting out demons.
	And then in the rite itself, I would say supplicating prayers, which are prayers directed to God.
	I would lay my hands on the head of the person as I'm saying these prayers.
	There's also a major exorcism prayers, which are commands given to the demons itself.
	There's an insufflation prayer, the breathing on the face of the person invoking the presence of the Holy Spirit.
	It's the recognition that wherever the Holy Spirit is present, an unclean spirit cannot remain.
	So there is a very prescribed way for an exorcism to be performed.
	And what are the signs of demonic possession?
	I mean, because presumably it's quite a big deal if you're called out to exorcise something.
	I mean, somebody must be in a pretty bad way.
	Absolutely.
	As an exorcist, I'm trained to be a skeptic, so I should be the last one to believe that somebody is actually dealing with extraordinary demonic activity.
	So there are four different types of extraordinary demonic activity.
	There's demonic infestation, the presence of evil in a location or associated with an object.
	There can be demonic vexation, which are physical attacks.
	Demonic obsession, which are mental attacks, and then demonic possession, whereby the demon would take control of the person's body, treating that body as if it were its own.
	Because I'm trained to be a skeptic, the Church says that there are four things that I can look for.
	Number one would be the ability to speak and understand languages otherwise unknown to the individual.
	Having superhuman strength beyond the normal capacity of the individual.
	Having elevated perception, meaning the person has knowledge about things that they shouldn't otherwise know.
	And then the fourth would be an aversion to anything of a sacred nature, such as being blessed with holy water, being shown a crucifix, having passages of the Bible read before them.
	So all of these could be signs of a demonic presence.
	Yeah.
	So that scene in, you must have seen, The Omen, when Damian, the young Antichrist, is taken by his parents to church and he's not happy.
	That's kind of quite realistic.
	Yes, it's that notion, can't be in the presence of God.
	So tell me a bit more about, because you must have witnessed all those different, those four signs, which strikes me as extraordinary.
	I can't imagine somebody who's... What languages are we talking about that people can speak?
	When demons can manifest, they can speak any language.
	Oftentimes it could be Latin, could be ancient Greek or Aramaic.
	I don't claim to be fluent in these languages, but I will rely on experts to help me to understand exactly what is taking place.
	And the reason is because speaking a language that the person doesn't know, and that's why I always say there's no such thing as an emergency exorcism.
	I need to get to know who the person is and who they are and what they may have done to open a doorway to the demonic.
	But if Through the person's voice, they're starting to speak Latin, for example.
	And through my research and knowledge of the person, I know that they don't know Latin.
	Then I know that it's the demon who's actually speaking and not that person as an individual.
	And it really goes back to angelic nature, because when God created the angels, he gave them infused knowledge, kind of like a computer that's downloaded with information.
	So angels don't have to go to school to learn a language.
	They can just call it up.
	Yeah.
	And so, you mentioned three ancient languages, Aramaic, Greek and Latin.
	Is that the demon's preferred medium of speech?
	Actually, they can they'll speak in any they can speak in any language.
	They can even be English or any of the modern day languages as well.
	And oftentimes they may try to do things to be deceptive.
	One of the things that we know about the devil himself is that he is a liar and the father of all lives.
	We know that from the words of Scripture.
	So the exorcist is trained to make sure that he doesn't allow himself to become manipulated By the devil, during an exorcism.
	So you've obviously experienced that.
	What sort of tricks does the devil use?
	You know, oftentimes when a person is possessed and the manifestations begin, some of the manifestations that I've witnessed would be the eyes roll in the back of the head.
	They begin foaming at the mouth, acting animalistic in nature, throwing out all kinds of blasphemies and cursing.
	I've seen when demons manifest, the person's body will drop to the ground and begin slithering like a snake on the floor.
	I've seen examples of levitation.
	But again, the devil is doing things to try to say, I'm in charge here or look at what I'm capable of doing.
	So the demon wants to shift the focus away from God and what God wants to do in this prayer of the church.
	To more on what he's capable of doing.
	So all of the manifestations that Damon is trying to demonstrate that his power is greater than the power of God.
	And ultimately he wants to instill fear in me and in anyone else who's present during the exorcism.
	Right.
	When you say levitation, I mean, I mean, how are we talking a couple of inches off the ground?
	Are we talking like several feet?
	I've witnessed where the demon, once it manifested, the person's body rose about maybe a couple feet out of the chair.
	And then there's a hideous grin on the face where the demon's basically saying, ha ha ha, look at me, look at me, look at what I can do.
	Right.
	It's funny, you're very matter-of-fact describing this, because obviously this is your day job.
	But, I mean, what you've witnessed must... like, how do you stop being afraid?
	Can you say that, ask the question again?
	Oh yes, I'm sorry.
	How do you stop being frightened by this horror?
	I think that comes over the years.
	You know, when I was appointed 17 years ago, You know, after my training in Rome and coming back to the States, recognizing that during an exorcism, I can no longer rely on the priest who was training me.
	It's just me.
	And there was a lot of apprehension.
	But then, I think, like in any task that we're called to do, once you become more comfortable in the role, you begin to focus at least i did more on what god wants to do in an exorcism rather than on the tricks of the devil because i can honestly tell you that during an exorcism i'm never afraid of anything the devil is trying to do or any of the manifestations that i see because my
	focus again is on what god is doing as opposed to all of the tricks of the devil right and i i mean i've read books about um i think it's maliki martin and it's very scary um he's
	He gives the impression that some of the priests who've conducted exorcisms have ended up being destroyed by it, that it can be very dangerous for the exorcist.
	Is that right?
	It can be, because even the Catholic Church says that a priest appointed to the role of exorcist needs to be known for his holiness, his piety, that he needs to be well grounded in his priesthood.
	In the years that I've done this ministry, I have known four other priests.
	They've actually left the priesthood who were exorcists.
	They reached the point that they felt like they were being attacked so much that they could no longer continue on.
	I personally believe that it's important for an exorcist Not to do this ministry full time.
	So even though I'm the exorcist here in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, which is in the state of Indiana.
	I am also the pastor of 2 churches, St.
	Michael and St.
	Peter.
	And I think that helps me to stay well grounded, because if you deal with people who are possessed, or dealing with other forms of extraordinary demonic activity, I think after a while it can begin just to literally suck the life out of you.
	But I can renew my spirit, if you will, by being engaged in the life of the local church.
	So celebrating Mass with folks, being there for baptisms and weddings.
	So those things, I think, help constantly renew my spirit.
	But just to do exorcisms all the time?
	I think eventually that would just become so draining and exhausting that the temptation might be simply to give up the vocation to be in a priest.
	And what are the things that, I mean, can anyone be attacked by demons or do you have to do things in order to attract them to you?
	I would say that anyone We might talk about the extraordinary activity of the devil, the four types that I mentioned infestation, vexation, obsession, and possession.
	In those cases, somebody has to open an entry point, if you will, for the demonic into their life to really do something of a grave nature that is contrary To living a godly life, but there is also something known as the ordinary activity of the devil where the devil will try to tempt us or trip us up in the ordinary events of our daily living when it comes to the ordinary activity of the devil.
	I like to say that he has a four-stage plan of attack that he tries to use on everyone and the words all begin with the letter D. It's a deception.
	Which leads to division, which leads to diversion, which leads to discouragement.
	So deception, the devil wants us to get to buy into his lies.
	And when we buy into the lies of the devil, it leads to division.
	We find ourselves broken.
	We're not able to put the pieces of our lives back together.
	Obviously, the way to do that would be to repent, to acknowledge our sinfulness, and then to return to God.
	But oftentimes when people are broken, Rather than trying to put the pieces together, they look for a substitute for God in their life.
	So, diversion.
	They look for something else.
	And then, when we don't have God in our lives, it's the great quote from St.
	Augustine.
	You know, you have created us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you.
	So, when we look for a substitute for God, ultimately that's going to lead us to discouragement.
	We lack meaning and purpose and direction in our lives because God does not have his rightful place.
	And when people arrive at discouragement, and I believe that there are more people discouraged today than there are people who are depressed.
	And that's simply because God does not have his rightful place in the lives of many people.
	And when we get into discouragement, I think we arrive at a crossroads.
	One pathway will lead to death, always a spiritual death where We completely reject God, say that we're atheists.
	Sometimes death isn't a physical death.
	You look at the rise of suicide throughout the world today, where people simply have no meaning and purpose in their lives, and they simply want to give up.
	But as Christians, we're called to be a people of hope.
	So the other pathway, when we arrive at discouragement, could be a discipleship.
	We reawaken to the fact that God needs his rightful place in our lives.
	We rediscover our faith.
	We reconnect with God.
	And in doing so, we begin to experience a sense of joy, wholeness, and completeness in our lives.
	Do you want to tell me about how many exorcisms have you conducted?
	When it comes to demonic possession, I would say about 20.
	So it averages about one a year.
	But when it comes to dealing with exorcism prayers for infestation, vexation, and obsession, I've done thousands of those over the past 17 years.
	Right.
	So, tell me about some of the more extreme cases that you've experienced.
	Tell me first of all, is there a kind of an age that people are typically possessed or is one sex more likely to be possessed than another?
	No.
	Demonic possession can happen at any age.
	Male or female, again, the devil's main goal is to try to destroy us.
	Obviously, from a Christian perspective, we need to walk the path that Christ has laid out for us.
	But the devil would try to trip us up along our journey through life.
	So when I work with somebody, I look for entry points.
	So if somebody is possessed, what do they do to open up the doorway to the demonic into their life?
	Because if one is a Christian, for example, if you're going to church, if you're praying, if you're reading the Bible, the devil is already on the run.
	We don't have to do anything extraordinary to defeat the devil.
	It's the ordinary aspects of our faith That will keep the devil at bay.
	But there are times that people open up an entry point.
	Some of the entry points I would point out would be ties to the occult.
	The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus.
	It means hidden or secret.
	So people begin to dabble in things like magic.
	They may go see a psychic or a medium.
	All of these practices are condemned.
	They're even mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, in the Old Testament, in chapter 18, where it says we should never practice magic, try to cast spells or curses on other people, that all of these things are an abomination against God because they violate the first commandment.
	Where God says, I am the Lord your God, you shall not have strange gods before me.
	And when people turn to the world of the occult, they're turning their back on God, and they're turning to something else to take the place of God.
	So ties to the occult can be an entry point.
	Go ahead.
	I can imagine you're not a big fan of the Harry Potter series.
	Well, you know, I always say that the question might be like for Harry Potter, Did that create a fascination with the demonic?
	And when parents always ask me, is there anything wrong with reading Harry Potter or watching the movie?
	And my response is, does your child know Harry Potter books more than they know the books of the Bible?
	So if they're reading Harry Potter, can they filter what they're reading in Harry Potter through the Word of God?
	Yeah.
	And the reality is most children today know Harry Potter more than they know the Bible.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, tell me a story of one of your exorcisms.
	I mean, do you have a favourite one where you felt particularly satisfied by your achievement?
	I can tell you one that I did recently.
	As an exorcist, I hear pretty horrific stories from people.
	So, there had been a 50-year-old lady originally from Mexico, Who arrived, she was living in Indiana.
	She had been away from the church for many, many, many years.
	Her neighbor invited her to come back to church.
	And when she went into the church, she manifested evil.
	There was a demonic manifestation.
	So the priest met with her, this lady, and a friend who came with her.
	And the priest said he himself was attacked, because as he was talking to the lady, the demon manifested and attacked him.
	So I agreed to meet with her.
	So it's me, the other priest, the lady from Mexico, and her friend.
	And the woman tells me that when she was growing up in Mexico, that at the age of seven, her father began to rape her.
	And it happened over a period of five years.
	When she turned 12, she said that her father turned his attention away from her to her younger sister.
	She was broken and shattered.
	And then she blamed God for allowing this to happen.
	So she turned away from God and she turned to the world of magic, shamans and witches and people who told her that they could help put the pieces of her life back together.
	But she said her life was only broken even more and more and more.
	So she's looking at me, and she's telling me the story, and she begins to cry, and she says, Will you help me?
	And I looked at her and said, Jesus is the one who can help you.
	And when I said that, her eyes turned green, and her pupils became slanted like a serpent, and a voice comes out of her mouth and said, Who's he?
	He has no power over us.
	And then began to have this hideous laugh.
	Well, her friend sitting next to her literally jumped over the table to get away from her.
	And the other priest with me was so terrified that he dropped to his knees and started to pray.
	And I got up immediately and I went over and I laid my hand on the head of this person and began to pray.
	And these green eyes are looking at me and they begin to cuss me out and to growl and snarl.
	And then I reached in my pocket and I had a little vial of holy water and I sprinkled the holy water on the head of the person and continued to pray.
	And when the drops of water hit the head of the person, The demon began to scream and then collapse to the floor.
	Now, I did not do the official exorcism right then and there.
	I need to prepare myself.
	So as a priest, I will spend time in prayer.
	I celebrate Mass.
	I go to the Sacrament of Confession.
	I determine where the exorcism will take place.
	It's always in a sacred space.
	I jokingly tell people that an exorcism is never performed in an abandoned house At midnight on a dead-end street during a thunderstorm.
	That makes for a great Hollywood movie, but the devil doesn't get to decide where he's defeated.
	The church herself will make that determination.
	So a week later, we're all back again.
	So I determined to do the exorcism.
	We were in a chapel in the city of Indianapolis.
	The lady came back, her friend came back with her, and even the young priest came back.
	So the four of us are in the chapel again, and as soon as I began to pray, Beginning the right, blessing the person with holy water.
	As soon as the holy water hit this woman's head, the demon manifested again.
	There's the green eyes, the slanted pupils.
	And the demon looked at me and laughed and goes, you can't get rid of us.
	We've been here too long and you're not strong enough.
	And then just began to have this big old belly laugh.
	And then I continue the prayers of the church.
	So I read the Psalms, the Gospels.
	I prayed a prayer to God, asking God to deliver her from these demons.
	I commanded the demons to leave.
	And then I did the insufflation prayer, the breathing on of the face of the person.
	Again, it's a reminder of Jesus.
	After the resurrection when he appeared in the upper room and he breathed on the disciples and said, receive the Holy Spirit.
	So I just lightly breathed on her face, invoke the Holy Spirit.
	Well, you would have thought that she was hit by a strong headwind.
	So the chair that she was sitting in flew back about 10 feet and hit the wall.
	And then the lady comes flying out of the chair and there's a scream.
	And then she collapses on the floor.
	Myself and the other priests go over and lift her up, and there is a glow in her face.
	The demon is gone, and she began to praise and glorify God.
	Whenever I know a demon has been cast out, there is this radiance.
	Many of us are familiar with looking at a picture of a saint that has a halo around their head.
	Well, that represents not their glory, but the glory of God.
	So much so, did they unite their life to the life of God, they begin radiating the glory of God.
	It's kind of like Lucifer again.
	When he was closest to the throne of God, he would absorb God's glory.
	So this woman is literally glowing and praising God.
	So that exorcism took 45 minutes, and then the demons were cast out.
	Other exorcisms that I've done, one lasted over a year.
	I would meet with the person every four to five weeks, but that particular person was possessed by seven demons that named themselves in her.
	I was going to ask you about that, because you mentioned in your exorcism of the Mexican lady, you said that the demon used the word, used we.
	They seem to speak in the plural, like, you know, they call us legion because we are many.
	Is that a thing, that they tend to use the rule we?
	It's interesting, when you read the Bible, the stories of Jesus doing exorcisms, the demons always go back and forth from speaking in the singular and then in the plural.
	You mentioned the story of the gathering demoniac with the swine, the man possessed by legion, and it begins by saying, I know who you are, the Holy One of God, have you come against us, against the proper time?
	Oftentimes when somebody is possessed, it's not a question of one demon, but many.
	So they can act in a cluster.
	When somebody is possessed, oftentimes there are weaker demons and then one dominant demon.
	And then the weakest ones are the first to go.
	So in the other exorcism I just referenced, the lady possessed by seven demons, That was the lady I worked with for one year.
	The six weakest demons were cast out, but the dominant demon told me his name was Leviathan, which is the great sea monster a demon mentioned in the Bible.
	And Leviathan told me that it was not going to leave because it had been invited in and it was true.
	This woman said she was praying one day and she saw a woman go by that she thought was possessed.
	So she ran up to the woman and looked her in the eye and said, what's ever in you?
	I freely invite to come into me.
	So a misguided notion of charity.
	She thought she was doing an act of kindness, and she said no sooner did she say the words that she felt something come over her.
	And she demonstrated demonic manifestations for 12 years before she turned to the church for help.
	So the demon Leviathan said, I was invited in, I don't have to leave.
	But we can say that in an exorcism, The demon is commanded to return that which it has stolen, namely a person created in the image and likeness of God.
	So yes, it was true that she invited the demons in, but she also has the power to tell them to leave, because we have free will.
	Now, the demon would have us believe that once we've made that pact with the devil, it's one and done.
	But again, we can always repent.
	So I still remember the last session when the demon was cast out.
	So we were in the southern part of the state of Indiana.
	We were in a convent chapel.
	And it's about 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
	The demon is manifesting, the demon Leviathan.
	It's screaming, it's howling, and I'm commanding the demon to leave.
	And at the same time, a bell rings outside.
	It's a school bell.
	The dismissal of school.
	There are now 400 schoolchildren pouring out onto the parking lot, just outside of the window where the exorcism is taking place.
	The demon looks at me and laughs with his hideous grin, and said, stop praying.
	If you keep praying, I'm going to scream so loud that people are going to hear the scream, and they're going to come in here and see what you're doing, and then you're going to have to stop.
	So stop now.
	And then began to scream as loud as you can imagine.
	And I looked at the demon and said, I command you to obey me in all things, although an unworthy minister of Christ
	And then to say the words hail Mary full of grace from the beginning of Luke's Gospel when the the angel Gabriel greets the Virgin Mary and the demon looked at me and laughed and goes grace of full scramble the words around and then again I commanded the demon to say the words in the proper order and to leave immediately and this demon that had been speaking in a very authoritative deep voice looked at me
	With almost tears in the eyes of the person and as a child said Hail Mary full of grace and then there was a shriek and the demon was gone and the woman in front of me has that glow again.
	People ask me, they're like, well, Father, what did you do?
	You know, you worked with her for a year.
	I was tired.
	I was exhausted.
	It was so hot outside.
	I said I was two hours away from my parish.
	When I got in my car, I stopped at the ice cream store on the way home, and I had a chocolate shake.
	I walked into the ice cream store.
	It was so crowded.
	And I thought to myself, if these people standing here by the counter knew where I just came from, I would be like Moses parting the Red Sea, because they would be trying to get away from me as fast as they could.
	Those are some amazing stories.
	When you say that the demon manifests itself, so like the demon that attacked the other priest, are they visible?
	Yes, because they're using that person's body as their own.
	So when somebody is possessed, The demon takes control of the person's body.
	They use the person's eyes to see, their legs and hands and arms to move, make gestures.
	That's why when I look for those four signs, I have to know that it's now the demon acting in the person's body and not that person themselves.
	Because once a demon possesses a body, Then all the actions are now wholly defined by the demon and not by that person.
	I had a priest friend from the state of California.
	When he did his first exorcism, because he wasn't very cautious, he said when the demon manifested, he got punched right in the nose.
	So again, it's so important to follow the proper procedures and protocols.
	I would imagine, you suggested earlier on something that I believe in, that we are living in the most extraordinary times, perhaps even end times, I mean, I don't know what you'd call them, but I see evil manifesting itself in a way that I've never seen it manifest itself before in my lifetime, and things seem to be getting worse, and we are living in a godless society.
	Are there enough Exorcists to go round?
	I mean, are there lots more people demonically infested than there are exorcists to deal with them?
	You know, when I was appointed back in 2005, I became one of only 12 officially appointed Catholic exorcists in the entire United States.
	So my diocese has always had a priest in this role.
	It used to be very common and then after the 1960s.
	The Ministry of exorcism kind of faded out.
	It goes back to what you alluded to at the beginning.
	That a lot of people today simply believe that it's all mental illness and there's probably some medication that people can take.
	But now.
	There are more than 150 Catholic exorcists in the United States.
	There's even a school for the training of exorcists here in the States.
	So the church has recognized.
	That she needs to step up, if you will.
	And begin to minister to people who believe they're up against the forces of evil.
	Now, certainly not everyone who contacts me is dealing with the demonic.
	Some people are dealing with mental health issues.
	Here in the United States, I have a protocol that I follow, as well as all the other exorcists.
	Because we're trained to be skeptics, the person needs to have a psychiatric evaluation.
	by a psychiatrist, a psychologist.
	So the church wants an expert in the field of mental health to weigh in.
	Number two would be to have a physical examination from a medical doctor.
	So the church wants experts in the mental health and the medical field to say, there's something about this person's condition that is outside of my knowledge, my expertise, my training.
	Step number three, I would meet with the person and do an intake questionnaire trying to determine how did the demon enter this person's life.
	Step four, I look for those four signs of demonic possession that we mentioned.
	Speaking languages otherwise unknown to the individual, superhuman strength, elevated perception, and a negative reaction to things of a sacred nature.
	Step number five is the most important.
	The person needs to be reconnected to their faith or come to faith for the very first time.
	It's not enough to cast the demons out.
	God has to be invited in.
	And, you know, I'm publicly known.
	Some exorcists choose to remain, you know, anonymous because I'm publicly known.
	I currently receive 70 inquiries every week from people all over the world who believe they're dealing with the devil and are seeking the help of the Church.
	Aren't you a bit of a target for the evil one?
	Absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	Because the devil knows who's trying to defeat him and work against him.
	So, tell me about, you must have been attacked by the demonic, the dark forces?
	Absolutely.
	I've experienced multiple demonic attacks in my life.
	Sometimes it can be in the form where the devil is trying to tempt you into despair, causing you to question your vocation.
	You know, why am I a priest?
	Maybe I should be doing something else.
	I've experienced physical attacks.
	Many of the saints of the church have also described that in their own lives.
	You know, in the Catholic Church calendar today, being September the 23rd, is the feast day of St.
	Padre Pio, a Franciscan priest from Italy who believed that he experienced demonic attacks in his life.
	Again, it wasn't that he did anything wrong.
	To open up a doorway to evil.
	But there is something called demonic oppression.
	Where God will permit the devil to attack people.
	As an opportunity for people to show their fidelity to God.
	It's easy to say that one believes in God.
	When everything is going great.
	And you just mentioned Job in the Old Testament.
	God permitted Satan to oppress him.
	St.
	Paul talked about the thorn in his flesh, the messenger from Satan sent to torment him to keep him from becoming proud.
	So I do believe that anyone who takes their faith seriously, anyone who tries to combat the devil, Can expect to experience some type of oppression or demonic attacks in their life.
	And certainly myself and many exorcists experience that in our lives as well.
	So tell me about these physical attacks.
	Often times it's like a heaviness on your chest.
	And there's this almost utter despair that you feel.
	Literally the demon is trying to jump on you.
	And there's a sense of utter despair and hopelessness.
	Some of it can be in the form of, I mean, I've I've seen.
	Demons kind of in a physical form, if you will.
	The times that I've actually seen demons, and I think God permits that.
	It's like a very dark blob.
	And it's the darkest dark that you can imagine.
	Because, again, remember, Lucifer, being the lightbearer, used to glow with God's glory.
	Yeah.
	You know, I have six brothers and two sisters.
	When I was a kid, my brothers and I used to take these rubber balls that would glow in the dark.
	And we would put them up against a light bulb, where it could absorb the light, and then we would turn the light off and it would glow.
	But eventually, the glowing ball would start to fade, unless it was constantly fed by the light.
	So we as Christians constantly need to be fed by the light of Christ.
	And when we're not, we lapse into darkness.
	So demons, because they're no longer fed by the glory of God, it's kind of almost like a black hole, if you will, when you can see a demon.
	This very dark blob, if you will, that literally is like a black hole.
	And I've witnessed that in my life.
	And also, I think you've mentioned elsewhere that coldness, sort of chilliness in the air is often a sign of the devil.
	Yes, and again that goes back to just being in complete, utter darkness.
	There is no light.
	You know, sometimes people, when they think of hell, they always think of the fires of hell.
	But really, hell would be The cold, if you will, because there is no presence of God.
	There is no glory of God.
	And so we think of the devil as utter darkness.
	But when we think of Christ as Christians, we think of light.
	So for Christians, if you're living out your faith, the light is always on.
	But if one is living a life of sin.
	The light is off darkness.
	I was struck by something you said earlier which prompted a thought.
	You're familiar with the story of Dr Faustus or the Faust legends?
	Yes.
	Suppose at the end, having made his pact with the devil that he'd get all these earthly pleasures in return for his soul, could he have had the option right at the end of saying, I repent, I ask for God's help, Because he'd made a deal with the devil.
	Can you break that pact?
	Can God rescue you from it?
	And the answer would be yes, he could repent.
	Because the human person, we have the capacity to grow in our knowledge and our understanding.
	And because we can grow in our faith, we can come to understand that that we did something that was wrong.
	And therefore, we seek forgiveness and God will always be ready to forgive.
	We think of the good thief on the cross.
	There, as he's dying with Jesus, he says, Lord, remember me when you enter into your kingdom.
	Jesus is able to look into his heart and see the goodness there.
	Now, we don't know why he's being crucified with Jesus.
	We don't know what crime he committed.
	But Jesus is able to look into his heart to see that his heart is in the right place and then says to him, this day, you will be with me in paradise.
	We know the story of the prodigal son there in the New Testament, when the younger son returns to the father and says, I've sinned against heaven and against you.
	I no longer deserve to be called your son.
	The father listens.
	He now knows that his son's heart is in the right place.
	And how does he respond to the son?
	Put a ring on his finger and sandal on his feet, bring out the finest robe and kill the fattened calf.
	So the human person always has the capacity to repent, and when we repent, God is always ready to forgive, because God's love and mercy, if we're willing to accept it, is greater than any sin that we could commit.
	So there is always hope if somebody reaches out to God, God is always ready to forgive.
	Right.
	But you must be, I mean, OK, I always think of the thief on the cross as a fairly, as a good egg, really.
	I mean, I don't think he was a really bad person.
	And the prodigal son, I mean, all he did was just go off and sort of spend his inheritance, didn't he?
	But OK, let me give you an example.
	You must be aware of Satanism in America and elsewhere, particularly among the elites.
	I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
	You mean, like if someone has sold their soul to the devil in order to get power and fame and prestige and money and all of that?
	Well, even worse than that.
	I mean, there are these bloodlines, aren't there?
	The bloodlines, the sort of the descendants of Cain who are committed to Satan worship and they sacrifice children and stuff like that.
	I mean...
	I hadn't been aware of this stuff.
	I was brought up as a sort of cultural Christian.
	I was confirmed.
	I went to church and I go to church at Easter and Christmas and stuff.
	So I was a cultural Christian.
	But it's only recently I've become A sort of proper question, if you like.
	You know, I do actually believe in God and the devil, and I'm very concerned about my soul, and I'm very concerned to save the souls of those I love particularly, but everyone.
	You know, I'm very comfortable talking about God and things now, which I think is part of my mission.
	But I've also become aware that the corollary of that, you know, is that we live in a world which is God, by God's permission, has been given to the devil.
	This is the realm of the devil, and he's there around us constantly, tempting our souls.
	And the people who run the world are essentially satanic, for want of a better word.
	And you make a good point.
	You know, when Lucifer And one third of the angels were cast out of heaven.
	They were cast down to the earth, which means the devil and these demons still have a role to play in God's creation.
	So they weren't cast out of creation.
	They were just cast out of heaven.
	It's the notion that no sin can be in the presence of God.
	So they're cast out.
	And you're right.
	There is a strong demonic presence in the world today.
	But the good news is, there's hope of salvation for everyone if they want it.
	I was thinking, you know, when you're talking about the presence of evil in the world today, and a lot of these big figures that we see, people of power and prestige, it reminded me of a, it's a man, his name is Bartolo Longo.
	Bartolo Longo, L-O-N-G-O, and he lived in the city of Naples in Italy at the end of the 19th century.
	He was a devout Catholic, but then eventually he abandoned his faith.
	He got involved in satanic worship.
	He even became a satanic high priest.
	But his family never gave up on him.
	They continued to pray.
	So we should always pray for people who are trapped in darkness and satanic worship.
	Bartholomew Longo eventually renounced all of that.
	He returned to the church and then dedicated his life to working with college students because he said that he lost his faith when he went off to the University of Naples.
	He entered into a world of atheism, non-belief, rejection of God, God is dead.
	And that caused him to enter into the demonic world, but then he had the spiritual reawakening.
	He returned to the church and then dedicated his life to young people teaching them the importance of always staying connected with God.
	So if you think about it, it's kind of it's kind of a great story.
	A former satanic high priest is on the road to sainthood in the church.
	Again, it's the notion that no one is ever lost to God if they want to be found.
	Now, the key is they need to be want to be found.
	We all we all stray in our lives.
	You mentioned that in your life.
	I mean, I would say that in my life, too.
	You know, you go off to college and university.
	You think freedom means you can do whatever you want, but then you realize There really is no meaning and purpose in this.
	You look at people today that are involved in satanic worship, people who have rejected God.
	I would dare say that they're empty on the inside.
	And they're trying to fill that emptiness with addictive behavior, drugs or alcohol, sex, whatever it is.
	But they can never get enough, and so they always need more and more and more and more and more.
	But again, it goes back to that quote I mentioned from St.
	Augustine earlier.
	I think that's why you're doing this podcast, James.
	It's the notion that you want to reach out to people who may be trapped in darkness to kind of give them a spark, if you will, of the importance of faith in God.
	And maybe that will be the impetus that will spark something within them.
	Because I believe Because every person is good.
	There's a goodness within all of us, because we are all created by God, and everything that God creates is good.
	But maybe that goodness within us has fallen asleep.
	I was reading a book the other day about the word Apostle.
	The word Apostle comes from the Greek word, and it means to awaken from within.
	It was a reference to Jesus calling the Apostle Matthew.
	Matthew was a tax collector.
	When Jesus called him to follow, people were like, why are you calling Matthew?
	He's a tax collector.
	He's a fellow Jew.
	He turned his back on the Jewish people.
	He's colluding with the Roman government.
	But Jesus calls him, because Jesus, when he calls him, he awakens the good within him, and then Matthew abandons his customs post, and he follows Jesus.
	I think people of faith today have the responsibility to help other people rediscover and awaken the goodness within them, so they will renounce If you will, the kingdom of Satan, the life of sin and return to God.
	Yeah, well.
	In my research, I've become aware that given that this is the realm of the Prince of Lies, that inevitably he's going to attack the institutions which he considers most threatening.
	And one of those would of course be the Church.
	Now, I can certainly speak for my own church, the Church of England.
	It has been massively infiltrated by the forces of darkness.
	There are clearly people there who are not real Christians.
	There are people who go to church who are just, you know, they're Christians on the surface but they're not really connected with God.
	I'm sure it's the same with the Catholic Church.
	There must be forces within your church which actually want to reject the role of exorcism because they don't want to acknowledge demons because they don't want people to know the truth.
	Is that something you've found?
	I would say that's true.
	I mean, you look at all the clergy's sexual abuse That the Catholic Church has dealt with, I mean, we need to acknowledge that.
	But to me, that's an example how the forces of evil have infiltrated the Church.
	Because Satan would want to destroy the Church from within.
	Because the notion would be, Satan believes that if he can destroy the messenger, which is the Church, that he can destroy the message.
	Which is a message of hope and salvation that Christ has for every people and certainly that's a message of hope that is found within all churches.
	So you talk about in the Anglican Church the Catholic Church, but I think Satan would want to destroy the world of faith as a way to trap people in darkness.
	Now the good news is that the devil doesn't have free reign.
	I mean if the devil had free reign.
	The world would be even more chaotic than we see now.
	So it's always a matter of what God is permitting him to do.
	And I always like to believe that we need to take what the devil is doing to us and use it to our advantage.
	So if the devil is attacking us, he's actually helping us to identify a weakness.
	And you know, if an enemy is attacking you, where are they going to attack you?
	At your weakest point.
	You know, you think in the Middle Ages, you know, when, you know, the kingdom is being attacked to the castle and whatnot.
	Well, they're going to go for the weakest point.
	But then those being attacked say, ah, that's the weakest point.
	We need to shore up our defenses in that area.
	So when the devil attacks us, then we become more aware of what we need to do better.
	So when you think about the Catholic Church being attacked by demonic forces from within, they're shaking the vocation of priesthood with all the sexual abuse that goes on.
	It's a challenge for us then to rediscover what does it really mean to be a priest?
	What is the word vocation really mean?
	And vocation means a calling from God.
	I tell people that since I became the exorcist, It's helped me to rediscover priesthood as a vocation and not an occupation.
	Because there is a danger, I think, for clergy today, regardless of the church to which they belong, to begin to see your ministry really as a job.
	You know, you kind of clock in, you clock out.
	But if one really are dedicating their life to God, to ministry, to their church, they have to see it as something that they do 24-7.
	Not just something you do part-time, but full-time.
	So even earlier, you were asking me about the demonic attacks that I receive.
	That's actually been to my benefit, because it's helped me to grow deeper in holiness and virtue, and in my commitment to God.
	So everything the devil was doing, actually to try to destroy, actually is going to make things better in the end.
	The best example, Jesus is dying on the cross.
	The devil believes that he has won.
	But the moment of his perceived victory is actually the moment of his defeat, because then the devil realizes that everything that he was doing that was leading Christ to the cross was actually playing into the hands of God.
	We've talked about really extreme cases where people have actually been physically possessed by demons, sometimes even by Satan himself.
	But I think most people's experience, there are sort of lesser forms of demonic attack, aren't there, that we've all probably experienced in our lives.
	I know I have.
	I mean, I used to refer to them as my Eumenides, you know, using what the ancient Greeks called them, the kindly ones.
	But definitely, I sort of felt these voices encouraging me to despair and self-hatred and beating myself up, which of course they feed on.
	Are you familiar with Jerry Marzynski?
	I am not, no.
	OK, so Jerry Marzinski is an Arizona psychotherapist.
	I've done a couple of podcasts with him.
	He's a fascinating man and he spent his career working in prisons and high security hospitals, working particularly with paranoid schizophrenics.
	And he discovered something remarkable.
	I'll make this short.
	The longer version is great.
	He started asking these paranoid schizophrenics who could hear the voices in their heads.
	He broke psychiatric tradition by asking them what the voices were saying, which apparently is a big no-no in psychiatry, and he quickly realized that these voices were saying the same thing consistently, whether it was in Arizona or whatever state he was working in, whatever.
	There was no way that these individual victims could have been communicating with people and coaching each other in what the voices were saying.
	And he realized then that these voices were not generated by the victims, they were external.
	These were demons.
	And what he found very effective was the 23rd Psalm.
	He said that demons particularly hate the 23rd Psalm.
	Have you found this?
	Yes, I would say that would be an example of demonic obsession.
	So mental attacks, literally the devil is trying to get inside of the head of people so that everything they think or experience Is being filtered through the demons, if you will.
	So yeah, I've certainly have witnessed that over the years.
	So people that are dealing with many people may think it's a mental health issue.
	But in reality, it's something of a demonic nature.
	What can people do?
	Have you got any tips on how to ward off these attacks?
	I mean, apart from 23rd Psalm.
	I think some of the other, you know, Scripture is obviously very powerful.
	I think of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, where he talks about putting on the full armor of Christ.
	What is that armor of Christ?
	It's really the components of our Christian faith again.
	So, you know, the need to go to church, the need to pray, the sacramental life of the church, the importance of baptism and confirmation, receiving communion, Some of the other things would be, you know, don't just be a cultural Christian, but actually live out your faith.
	Yes, Psalm 91 is very powerful.
	I love my favorite.
	Yeah, I need not fear the terror of the night nor the arrows that fly by day.
	I had a group of US Marines who told me they go.
	Well father we can tell you this but it's probably not politically correct.
	But before we go into battle, we always pray Psalm 91 together asking for God's protection and defense.
	Yeah.
	So I think it's really a matter of Living out the ordinary aspects of our Christian faith.
	And really discovering what it is that it means and that these things are truly.
	Important and there's significant.
	Because I think you know today it seems like people become bored.
	With their Christian faith.
	But I would dare say that a lot of people just don't fully know it or understand it.
	And I think if a lot of people would put the same level of investment.
	Into learning their Christian faith as they do with a lot of these occult activities goes back to those Harry Potter books.
	We mentioned earlier, you know, if you're going to read those well, don't be afraid to pick up the Bible and read that as well because anything we're reading is molding and shaping us.
	So if we're going to read the word of God the books of the Bible that's going to mold and shape us into who God wants us to be and when we turn to things that are contrary to that.
	Rather than being molded and shaped into the likeness of Christ, we're being molded and shaped into the likeness of the evil one.
	Yes.
	I've got to ask you this.
	This is a personal story.
	You're familiar with Aleister Crowley, I'm assuming?
	Yes.
	Yeah, okay.
	So, a few years ago I went to the house of an aristocratic chap who happens to have a collection of... Aleister Crowley was, you know, a member of the family, was one of Crowley's acolytes.
	And he showed me some of these artifacts, and one of them was Aleister Crowley's wand.
	And I thought, I've got to feel Aleister Crowley's wand, just to see what, you know, like so I can tell people I've touched Aleister Crowley's wand.
	And I have to say, when I touched it, I held it, I felt no evil.
	Now, was that because I would say the reason you didn't have any reaction to that is because you're a person of faith.
	of darkness entered my body through the wand what's your view on that i would say the reason you didn't have any reaction to that is because you're a person of faith because you look at okay from a catholic perspective we think we sacramentals holy water a crucifix religious medals that people may wear They have to point to something greater.
	You know, they're not means in and of themselves.
	So holy water, the power isn't in the holy water.
	It's that it points us to baptism.
	When it comes to a crucifix or a metal, it's not that metal that's going to protect us.
	It's pointing to a component of our faith.
	But when you touch the wand, as somebody who doesn't believe or rejects the forces of evil, there would be no reaction to that.
	Because I've had people tell me, you know, Father, I went out and bought the exorcism kit.
	And they sell them in stores in the States.
	And they say, you know, I was, you know, I got some holy water and I was sprinkling it, but it didn't do any good.
	Well, they were lacking in faith.
	So because they didn't have the faith, it wasn't effective.
	Because you reject the forces of evil, when you touch the wand, there was no reaction, because you don't have that connection with evil.
	Right.
	I must say, since I've become, I don't know what the phrase is, you know, proper Christian, I've become much more conscious of things like, okay, so around my house I've got these Things I brought back from Africa, you know, these kind of dolls and fertility dolls and things.
	And I look at them now slightly more awkwardly than I used to.
	Do you think, do you think, I mean, are those harmful or are they not?
	I think they can be.
	And that's the danger with things.
	You know, this is how I would put it.
	Are there things in our lives that are contrary to our Christian faith?
	And again, the demonic can be very subtle.
	He likes to creep into our lives, and maybe he has a grip on us that we don't even see or acknowledge.
	Because there are things that people do that they may think is pretty harmless.
	There are a lot of people in the States who read their horoscope, for example.
	Or maybe put things of a occult nature in their home.
	I sometimes give talks and I always ask, how many people here have ever knocked on wood?
	And of course when I ask the question, people are like, I better not raise my hand because it probably is not going to be a good response.
	But I said, do you know where the practice comes from?
	And they're like, no, and I said, what's a Druid practice is to believe that spirits live in the trees.
	So when you knock on wood, you're asking the spirit that lives within that tree to come to your aid and to grant your wish.
	Now, most people that do that, that's not what they're thinking, but the practice has become so accepted.
	It's kind of crept crept into common usage that people are doing things Of an occult nature and they don't even they don't even see it.
	That's the danger with some practices where like yoga, for example.
	People always say, well, what could be wrong with yoga?
	It's exercise.
	It's good for you.
	I said, well, the exercise is good, but the danger might be do you start giving into the Eastern spirituality, which is a rejection of your Christian faith.
	So maybe you begin with the exercises.
	But then that gradually leads you to, well, what's the spirituality all about?
	And so you start looking at it.
	The next thing you know, you've left your Christian faith and now you're practicing something else.
	So it can be a gradual moving away.
	And I think that's how the devil likes to move.
	It's not like he grabs us and jerks us away right away.
	It's a gradual process of getting us off track.
	And then we find ourselves lost.
	Yes.
	You've got me thinking now, because of course I touch wood and I salute magpies.
	I don't know.
	Do you have that one in America?
	I'm not familiar with that one.
	I salute magpies.
	Yeah.
	I mean, there are all sorts of kind of ancient superstitions, I suppose.
	Yeah.
	I mean, does that mean I'm not going to go to heaven?
	Or what's the deal there?
	No, I think it's just a question of are these things consistent with our Christian faith?
	And then how do we constantly purify ourselves?
	You know, conversion is an ongoing process.
	None of us is perfect.
	We're all sinners to some degree.
	But the question is, can we still call sin a sin and give it over to God and then strive to live in a manner that God calls us to live?
	Yeah, yeah, I think ultimately, at least from a Catholic perspective.
	Many of the saints of the church say that when we die and stand before the Lord, there's really only one question we have to answer.
	The Lord will say to us, how much did you love me?
	And it's the love that we demonstrate towards others that will help determine our salvation.
	Because God himself is love, and if the goal of the Christian life is to unite ourselves to God, then, and if God is love, then there has to be love within us so that we can unite ourselves to love, capital L if you will, itself.
	And so how do we demonstrate that love?
	Yes, I see that.
	I'd love to hear your answer to a question I've asked lots of people of faith, and I've never really had a very satisfactory answer.
	I mean, I'm a Christian, you're a Christian, and I think I've made the right choice, and it's great, and I love it, I'm very happy in my faith.
	But what about people of different religions?
	I mean, like Hindus.
	What's going to happen to them?
	I mean, it's not their fault they were brought up in cultures where they had, you know, elephant-headed gods or whatever.
	Are they going to...?
	What happens to them?
	The Catholic Church would say that there is salvation even outside the Church.
	Because the key thing is It's somebody searching for the divine, and we see that played out in many different world religions.
	It's the notion that the human person is incomplete without God.
	So even in these other faith traditions, what we all share in common is a search for the divine, the search for God, the search for truth, And I think those elements, because they're found within every faith, should give us the confidence that there is the hope of salvation for all of God's children, regardless of what faith tradition they may follow.
	Yes.
	Just thinking about the point about the wood and stuff and the wood spirits.
	I mean, how does that relate?
	The Catholic Church particularly has lots of saints and one prays to various saints to invoke their support.
	Are the saints kind of sort of manifestations of God in the same way that say, like, okay, Hindus, I know very devout Hindus who've got their particular series of gods that they pray to.
	Do they perform the same function as saints in the Catholic Church?
	What's the relationship of all these things to God himself?
	I think the saints are people who have united their will to the will of God.
	So what's the only thing That God does not already have.
	I mean, God has created everything.
	The only thing that God does not have is our free will.
	And the goal of the Christian life is to unite our will with the will of God.
	And the saints of the church are the people who have done that.
	The saints weren't necessarily perfect.
	You know, many of them were great sinners.
	Saint Augustine that I mentioned earlier, you know he lived in North Africa.
	He had a mistress.
	He had a child out of wedlock.
	And then he went on to be one of the greatest saints of the church.
	So again, it's the notion they weren't perfect.
	But they reached the point where they recognized that.
	Their lives needed to be wholly defined by their relationship with God.
	So, they're not deities, if you will.
	I like to say they're heroes and heroines, people who teach us that it is possible to live the Christian life.
	And I think we need those examples throughout history.
	I mean, we can look in the Bible and we can see people that lived thousands of years ago, but we need modern-day examples of people who committed their lives to Christ.
	Do you know that Pope John Paul II Canonize more saints than any other pope in the history of the church.
	In fact, the number of things that he canonized, I think, is greater than all the saints canonized before him because he believed that the modern world needed modern day examples.
	Of people leading a godly life.
	We can look back in history and and see people like Saint Francis of Assisi, for example.
	Well, he lived in the 13th century, a great Saint, a great model of being a Christian, but we need those examples today.
	You know, people that have walked with us.
	You think of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, for example.
	We need those examples in our world today that say, yes, it is possible to lead a Christian life.
	Christianity is still relevant here in the 21st century.
	It's not something that we've outgrown.
	It's not something that is no longer useful.
	We become bored with it.
	But it does still have the power and the capacity to mold and shape us into who God truly wants us to be.
	People who demonstrate love and care and compassion towards others.
	I totally agree with you, and now more than ever.
	I've got to ask you, where do you think we are in terms of the eschatology of these times?
	I mean, are you as nervous as I am?
	Well, I wouldn't say nervous, because people always ask me, they go, what do you think the end is coming?
	And I said, well, it's really nothing to fear.
	Because if the end is all about union with God, in a greater way than we now have, what's that to fear?
	I think sometimes when people get anxious about the end of time, it's because of the uncertainty.
	But Christians are people that should ultimately have certainty about God and what lies ahead in the Kingdom of God.
	I don't get caught up.
	I mean, even in Scripture, Jesus said, nobody knows the end, but the Father alone.
	So I don't worry about the end of times.
	The challenge would be, am I living my life today the way that God would want me to live it?
	And if I'm not, I need to repent.
	I need to change and put my life on a new path, on a new direction.
	And I think if we're doing that, Because the key ingredient of the Christian life is to be a people of hope, people of joy.
	Even Pope Francis said that if a Christian is walking around with a long face, why would anyone want to come to Christ?
	We need to radiate joy.
	Even when things look dark and gloomy, you look at the world in which we live today, there are a lot of things to be worried and concerned about, things that could make us, you know, cause us to live in fear.
	But ultimately, we have to constantly radiate joy, so that when people look at us, they say, I don't know what you have, but whatever you have, I hope it's contagious, because I need it.
	And then we can say, what I have is a relationship with Christ, and I share Him with you.
	It's the call to evangelization.
	I'm totally with you on the bit that comes after we die.
	That's cool.
	I'm really happy with that arrangement.
	I know.
	I feel great.
	It's the bit before.
	If the Bible is right, and I'm sure it is, you only have to look at Revelation to realise that there's a heap of trouble coming our way, and it ain't going to be fun.
	No.
	If it's spelled out in Scripture, then there's nothing that we can do to avoid that.
	If it's already spelled out that there's going to be great calamities and all these horrible things are going to happen, there's nothing that we can do to change that.
	But we can make sure that we're living lives that are worthy of Christ.
	And then we're not just looking out for ourselves, but we need to look out for one another.
	Again, that's the need to reach out, to evangelize.
	It's to do things, whether it's, you know, again, I think it's what you do on your podcast.
	You're trying to reach out to others as a way to bring people to Christ or to create a spark that hopefully will lead to a fire that will set people's hearts on fire for Christ.
	So that they can experience the hope of salvation.
	Because it would be horrible for us to say, you know, Christ has come, it's the end times, and we look around and say, sorry about your luck, but see you later, because I'm good, sorry that you're not.
	No.
	Yes, we are all brothers and sisters to one another.
	There's that commonality within the human family.
	So whether you're Catholic, whether you're Anglican, whether you're Muslim or Jew or Hindu or whatever you are, there's a bond that connects all of us and that bond is, is God himself.
	Yes.
	It's like when you meet a doctor at a party and you've got this embarrassing spot you wanted to look at.
	It's like all these things I want to ask you.
	It's like when you meet a doctor at a party and you've got this embarrassing spot that you wanted to look at.
	In the same way that one can communicate with, or certain people can communicate with the forces of darkness, Can people on our side communicate directly with the angels and the different, you know, well God himself obviously, but all the different layers of cherubim and seraphim and so on.
	Is that possible?
	It is, if God permits it.
	So there are mystics in the church Mystics are people that have been able to make that connection.
	God has permitted it.
	Many of the Saints were able to make that connection as well.
	It's almost like they.
	It's kind of like an old radio where you're trying to turn the dial and get the right frequency and you're hearing all this static and clutter, but then finally you make a connection with the channel.
	And I think saints are people who have been able to drown out the noise of this world and truly tune into the frequency of God.
	And again, I think that's the goal of all of us.
	How do we tune into the frequency of God?
	And it's about tossing aside anything that is contrary to that relationship.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Because there are things that, like, the precise ranking of the angels and stuff, is that all in the Bible or is that elsewhere?
	For the angels?
	Well, you know, I mean, you mentioned the cherubim, the seraphim, you know, the hierarchy.
	How do people know this stuff?
	Is it because there have been visionaries who've been permitted to understand the arrangement of heaven and hell?
	Or is it all detailed in the Bible?
	I think all those teachings and understandings come out of the Bible itself.
	But we may see pieces of it in one book of the Bible and pieces in the other.
	So whether it's like the book of the Prophet Daniel, the book of the Prophet Ezekiel in the Old Testament, because a lot of what they have to say we see echoed in the book of Revelation in the New Testament about the end of times.
	So then you'll have people that are Biblical scholars that try to pull the pieces together so that we have a better understanding of the angelic world, for example.
	So how do we know that there are nine choirs of angels and the seraphim and the cherubim and all of that?
	And a lot of that is gleaned to us from the Bible.
	From a Catholic perspective, we also rely on, we would talk about the fathers of the church.
	So the early church leaders in the first centuries of Christianity, what did they believe?
	What did they teach?
	So there are writings there that we have.
	There are other sources of writings that are not found within the Bible.
	One is called the Didache.
	The D-I-D-A-C-H-E, it's a Greek word, and it's the teachings of the apostles.
	So, when the Apostles left the Upper Room, filled with the Holy Spirit, and went out and began to spread the Word of God, what did they believe?
	What did they teach?
	A lot of these things are written down in the Editicae.
	So, there are many sources that are helping to mold and shape our understanding of our faith, of the angelic world, the lives of saints, you name it.
	It touches so many different aspects of the Christian life.
	Yes.
	Because this has been my mission in the last couple of years, to try and discover what is true, what is God's will, what is the kind of accretions of various, you know, people who've come after Christ, some of whom have invented stuff for political reasons, you know, what's real and what's not real.
	It's quite a struggle, isn't it?
	It is, you know, from a Catholic perspective.
	You know, oftentimes people might say to Catholics, well, where is that in the Bible?
	So, some people may base their Christian faith solely on Scripture.
	The Catholics, I always say that the Catholic faith is like a three-legged stool.
	So, if Catholic faith rests on the Bible, it rests on Tradition, the capital T, which means, how did early Christians practice and celebrate their faith?
	The people that live closest to the time of Christ, so that has an impact on us.
	And then the third leg is the magisterium, the teaching authority of the church.
	So you look at the bishops, you look at the Pope or the theologians.
	They help us to kind of put the pieces together as well, or maybe fill in the cracks or the gaps.
	That maybe that we might see coming out of the books of the Bible, so to give clearer understanding.
	About, you know, the word of God itself.
	So again, scripture tradition and the magisterium of the church.
	Yeah.
	Alan, are there any questions that you're often asked that I've forgotten to ask, and people are going to be listening to this podcast going, why didn't he ask that question?
	Are there any other really interesting things that you can tell me before we wrap up?
	You know, I can't think of anything right off hand, but the good news is you can always invite me back if you feel like there's something to expound on further, and I'm happy to come back and talk with you further.
	Well, I've really enjoyed talking to you, Father, and thanks for putting my mind at rest about Aleister Crowley's wongs.
	I didn't really want to think that maybe all along I've been thinking I'm an OK person, that actually I've been manifesting demonic forces, because that would be kind of grim, wouldn't it?
	I think you'd know, wouldn't you?
	Do you think you can tell on the internet whether somebody's demonically possessed or not?
	I think so.
	You know, after doing this ministry for 17 years, you can kind of get a feel or a sense for people.
	I've even had the experience of Being out and about, if you will.
	And even if I'm not dressed as a priest, just wearing regular street clothes, sometimes people give me the weirdest look, and I'll get a very bad vibe coming from them.
	And I always believe that sometimes it's the presence of the demonic in these people that are reacting to me.
	It goes back again, the devil knows who's working to defeat him.
	When you get in that situation, do you ever get tempted to chase after them and go, I can help, wait, wait!
	What I do all the time is I would silently pray for them.
	Because an exorcism cannot be performed on someone against their will.
	People have to want help.
	So we all have free will.
	Hopefully we make the choice for God, but unfortunately sometimes people make the choice for evil, the choice for the devil.
	Oh, one more thing.
	Can I... Jesus gives his disciples the power to cast out devils, doesn't he?
	I mean, could I cast out devils?
	Yeah, I think we all can.
	We can do, you know, there are two different types of exorcism prayers.
	So there's a supplicating prayer that's directed to God.
	Someone can say, God, see how your servant is being afflicted by the evil one.
	Please come to their aid and give that person the freedom that you would want all of your children to have through Christ our Lord.
	Amen.
	And then there are commands given to the demons.
	Now from a Catholic perspective, only the priest authorized by his bishop can give commands to demons, because the church is concerned that somebody may do that, but they may not be fully prepared for the consequences.
	So if they give a command to the demon and the demon starts to attack them, are they prepared to deal with that?
	I had somebody who came to see me who said that they were told they were possessed, and this group of people started praying over them, and the demon manifested, and the people were so terrified that they ran away.
	So the prayers caused the demon to manifest, but then the people were so terrified that they left the person manifesting a demon without taking care of the situation.
	So one really has to know what it is that they're doing and to realize, even if you're well-intentioned, if you're not properly trained or you fully understand what you're doing, you can actually cause greater harm than good.
	Did you subsequently rescue that?
	You got rid of that demon that was possessing somebody?
	Yes, I did work with that person, yes.
	Good.
	I'm glad he's not still stuck, possessed by the evil one.
	And do they, when they talk, do they talk like in The Exorcist?
	Do they always talk with sort of... Yeah, they do.
	And the reason is because they want to scare.
	I always say that demons, when they manifest, are animalistic in nature.
	Goes back to the story of creation in the book of Genesis.
	What happened on the sixth day of creation?
	God created humans and God created animals.
	What separates humans from animals?
	We have the capacity to honor and glorify God.
	We can live for the seventh day, because that's when God gave us the Sabbath, the Lord's Day.
	So when we choose to live for God, We complete our creation, if you will.
	But when we don't complete our creation, we're stuck on the sixth day, kind of acting like animals.
	The angels that fell, Lucifer and one-third of the angels.
	So when God created the angelic world, he gave them infused knowledge.
	He gave them intellect and will.
	And then God says to them, with all that I've given you, will you now honor and glorify me?
	And then Satan said no.
	And we can say that he did not complete his creation.
	St.
	Augustine, St.
	Thomas Aquinas, both of them alluding to this fact, said that you think of the story of creation.
	Evening came and morning followed the new day.
	So both of the saints would say that when God created the angels, he gave them evening knowledge, knowledge of the natural order.
	The ability to speak languages, for example.
	But then God said, with all of this information, will you honor me?
	And the angels that said yes, received morning knowledge.
	Their creation was completed.
	Again, the story of creation, evening came and morning followed, and then the new day.
	Because Lucifer and one-third of the angels rejected God, they are imperfect creatures, And that's why they act animalistic in nature.
	There is that notion that God is not a part of their existence anymore.
	I think that's why when people think of the mark of the beast, what number comes to mind?
	666.
	Yeah, 6 is an imperfect number.
	And then you look at it 3 times.
	Why is 6 3 times?
	Well, God exists as a trinity of persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
	The devil wishes to mimic God, to have this triune identity, so he gets the number 6 three times.
	666.
	I hadn't thought about that.
	I'm very suspicious about numbers now.
	I mean, at my gym, I won't use the locker number 33, for example, because I know that's a satanic number.
	Do we have guardian angels?
	We do.
	So that would be the ninth choir of angels.
	So there's nine choirs of angels and the ninth choir are guardian angels.
	You know, scripture tells us that God has assigned us an angel to watch over us throughout our lives.
	The good news is that the guardian angels are in the ninth choir.
	Lucifer was in the first choir.
	But our guardian angels are more powerful than the devil himself.
	Because they are perfect creatures.
	They have the evening and morning knowledge.
	They completed their creation.
	And a perfect angel in a lower choir is greater than an imperfect angel from a higher choir.
	And the key ingredient is having God a part of your life and uniting your free will with the will of God.
	Two of my podcast listeners have seen angels in the last couple of years.
	I mean, literally seen angels.
	I would really... I mean, do we get to see our guardian angels?
	I mean, I'd love to meet my guardian angel, but presumably that's not allowed.
	I think some people have that experience.
	I think that will happen in the afterlife, the life to come.
	Because again, being in heaven is being with all of God's creatures.
	And our angels are a part of God's creation.
	You see, angelic creatures, there's that notion of light again, because they're radiating the glory of God.
	You know, the word angel means messenger.
	Why have angels always been depicted with wings?
	Do they literally have wings?
	But it shows their readiness to implement the will of God.
	God says, this is what I want you to do, and they do it.
	So you think of the angel Gabriel going to the Virgin Mary in hell full of grace.
	So they are messengers of God.
	On a daily basis, what sort of things do they do though?
	You know, I think that guardian angels, of course, we have to invoke their assistance.
	They're there, but they don't inflict themselves on us.
	I like to say that our guardian angels inspire us to live godly lives.
	They instruct us in the truth of God and they illumine us.
	They help us to truly have a better understanding of God.
	So they illuminate, they instruct, and they inspire.
	All words that begin with the letter I. Inspire, instruct, and illuminate.
	And do our individual... do they have names?
	I mean, would mine have a different name from yours?
	Is it... Well, their names would be their function.
	So you think of the three angels that we know from the Bible, Gabriel, Michael, Raphael.
	Michael's the name that means who is like God.
	So when Lucifer was rebelling against God, it was Michael who said, basically, how dare you?
	Who is like God?
	How can you try to compare yourself to God?
	You know, Gabriel, God's messenger.
	Raphael, God's remedy.
	It's interesting that any name that ends in that E-L-A-L, it's a reference to God.
	And so, angels are known by their function, and that function is what gives them their name.
	Right.
	Right.
	I love all this stuff.
	I think it's an endless rabbit hole of...
	It really is.
	And Father Lampert, it's been absolutely great talking to you and asking you my really stupid questions and thank you very much for that.
	Because I believe this stuff.
	I really believe it.
	I'm not, you know, I don't know how many of our listeners are going to believe it but I'm totally there with you.
	So is there anything you would like to plug or where can people find you?
	You're on Twitter, aren't you?
	I don't use my Twitter anymore, but people can find a lot of stuff out there on YouTube.
	So there's a lot of information that's out there that I think if you put my name out there, but my bishop appointed me 17 years ago.
	One of the things that he wanted me to do is to help educate people what the Catholic Church believes and teaches about the reality of evil.
	So it wasn't just to work necessarily individually with people.
	But also to help be a teacher, if you will, and to help people have a better understanding of the reality of evil and what we can do to combat it.
	Yeah.
	Well, you've been doing a great job.
	Tell me about your books.
	Yeah, I've written just one book.
	I've been asked to write a second, but...
	In addition to being the exorcist, I'm the pastor of these two churches again, so my time is pretty stretched.
	But during COVID lockdown, I did write a book called Exorcism, The Battle Against Satan and His Demons, in which I talk about the ministry of exorcism, you know, who is the devil and the things that we can do to combat the devil and to live godly lives.
	So it's a short paperback book.
	It's not very extensive.
	Most people find it to be an easy read.
	And basically, it's meant to give people just a basic understanding, and hopefully the book will help whet people's appetite, if you will, that it will create a greater hunger and thirst for God in their lives.
	Because as an exorcist, my focus is not on what the devil is doing.
	I want to help people to have a better understanding of what God wants to do in their life.
	Brilliant.
	Well, I wish you all the best in your ongoing battle against the forces of darkness.
	Because I think your work's really cut out right now.
	And I think the devil's just like... He's evil!
	Absolutely.
	He's so horrible.
	He's evil, but God is good.
	God is good.
	And we're going to win, aren't we?
	We already know the outcome.
	It's like reading a book.
	We already know how it ends.
	Yeah, spoiler alert!
	Good.
	Well, it only remains for me to say thank you for listening.
	If you enjoyed this show, I am sure you did.
	Please do support me on Patreon, on Substack, on Subscribestar, and on Locals, yeah.
	Thank you very much.
	And thank you again, Father Lampert.
	Yes, you're welcome.
	My pleasure.
	God bless.
	Thank you.

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