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March 22, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:26:20
Jon Rappoport
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Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
Back on the podcast is one of my favourite podcast guests.
And I know I love all my children, but this is one of my favourites, I have to say.
John Rappaport.
John, welcome back.
I loved our last podcast.
Me too, James.
It's great to be back.
And I see There's more light in the room over there this time, and you've got this great window behind you.
If you look carefully, you may see some baby lambs frisking and gambling in the fields.
Wow.
It's it's a it's a lovely it's a lovely very early spring day here, and it ain't natural.
I mean, it feels like May, not March.
And the lambs are really happy.
There's those that haven't been, you know, Still bored or whatever.
It's a lovely idyllic scene.
I hope it's as lovely where you are.
It's great.
Well, it's still a bit wintry here, but I see a few signs of spring.
We've got some country as well, but no lambs.
No lambs that I know of anyway.
Last time we spoke, John, after we'd finished our podcast, I was thinking, damn, I should have asked him about AIDS.
Because that is that is one of your specialities, isn't it?
Yes, I wrote a book on it in 1988, called AIDS Inc.
Scandal of the Century.
So do you think we should talk about that bit first?
I mean, because it's, in a way, at the moment, we're living in such weird times that had we had this podcast a month ago, We would it would be much easier to sort of segue into the into the AIDS thing and Fauci and stuff.
But you may have noticed, but I know you have because I've seen some of your blogs on the subject.
The whole world's attention has has gone from Covid, the pandemic, whatever, to Ukraine.
It's it's it's almost as if Covid just wasn't a thing and that we haven't just been through two years of incredible stupidity.
Magic.
It's crazy.
It never happened.
It was just a bad dream.
But now we have a really serious situation that probably means the end of the world.
So get ready for that.
But if you think you were locked down or there was no virus or the test was rigged or case numbers or that's all a dream you had.
Nothing really happened.
There was nothing called COVID or whatever pandemic.
It's only the Ukraine.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
So this is the way we're supposed to think.
They really believe.
That people can unmask can just be shifted.
You know, like OK, we're going to move the.
Cows from the pasture into the corral today.
And everybody just goes along.
Yeah, well, you say they believe they can get away with it, but they believe it with good reason.
I mean, it's amazing how many people have just gone and bought this thing.
Yeah, I mean, I guess you're getting the same news we are.
What is it a pianist?
With the symphony orchestra is fired.
The pianist didn't even, as Russian, didn't even express any support for Putin.
Just happens to be Russian.
Gone.
Soprano, gone.
We had this thing during the First World War when the patriotic British were whipped into such a frenzy of jingoism against the Germans.
That they if they saw a Dachshund in the street, they would kill it.
They were killing Dachshunds because they were German dogs.
And obviously they were an enemy dog being German.
And it's the same, isn't it?
It's about the same.
It's the same idea.
And overnight.
You're you're a traitor if you, you know, are not calling Putin Hitler.
And saying that he should be destroyed or assassinated immediately and that all Russian things are bad.
Don't don't even think about ordering caviar in a restaurant, whatever it is, if it's Russian.
It's got to be horrendous.
Oh, we've we've had the the Welsh Symphony Orchestra canceling a program of of Tchaikovsky.
That's what I was going to say.
Dostoevsky knew in the 19th century when he was writing his stuff that that Putin was going to invade the Ukraine.
So in a way, it's only right that he should be cancelled.
And people have stopped reading.
Well, am I am I exaggerating?
I'm not sure that I am, that people have stopped reading Dostoevsky and Turgenev.
That's what I was going to say.
Yeah, I'm waiting for the university has cancelled all Russian literature courses.
you You're not allowed to read Dostoevsky and Turgenev or any of the Russian poets.
Sure.
I mean.
And the unanimity across the West at least.
This is a very similar thing to COVID.
Yeah, as soon as they announced the pandemic.
There was one unifying message.
Throughout the world, basically all the governments, public health agencies, news outlets were saying the same thing with the same language at the same time, which of course is a tip off that we're not talking certainly about independent thought, but also that the propaganda machine is operating at a very extensive way and everybody is part of the machine.
Same thing now with Ukraine.
The messaging, England, Europe, the rest of Europe, America, and so on, it's all the same.
So it's got to be the same source.
It's not, you know, the Washington Post editorial staff from meeting in the office.
Saying what are we going to do about the Russian situation?
How much censorship should we?
But no, it's just OK.
Here's the word.
This is what we're doing.
It's interesting you say that, I mean, obviously, I totally agree with you.
Where do you think these newspapers are getting their directives?
I mean, it's as if because You know, back in the day, I mean, even in the Watergate era when you had, you know, Woodward and Bernstein investigating Watergate.
I mean, you know, I have said I have my suspicions about that story now.
I think that was probably a plant.
And, you know, I mean, I don't trust anything anymore.
But surely in the past, there was a there was a time where you had these things called editorial conferences.
And the editor and the senior, you know, the his his staff, editorial staff would thrash out the ideas of the day and they would decide what position to take, you know, with a view to what their readers political sympathies were.
Whereas now they seem to just it's like they get they get their sort of directives from the intelligence services or whatever, and they just say, yes, sir.
How high, sir?
Exactly.
And I think it is the intelligence services plus the wire services like AP, for example, which is really a consortium of major media outlets like the New York Times and television networks and so on.
But I think.
You're looking at intelligence agencies and wire services and connections between them.
For setting the pace and the agenda and the word.
Because the wire services are obviously the messenger.
I think it's fairly clear.
Where the message is coming from, I would say.
Are the intelligence services?
So there's there setting the tone.
This is what must be broadcast and spoken about and so on.
And then the wire services are moving it down the line.
All the newspapers, television networks and so on.
You know, they just pick up on wire services and they reconfigure the stories a little bit and put them out.
Yeah, well, we we know those of us who have been looked at looking looked into the subject that the the wire services be they Reuters or Bloomberg or Azure.
Shows France press or whatever.
They're all compromised.
And they're all part of the kind of the, you know, the the the New World Order elite that they're doing their bidding.
And indeed, they are owned by the people who, who are sort of controlling where things are going.
But who who ultimately is giving the orders on on what to say about Ukraine?
I mean, it's clearly not the the The governments, is it the individual governments?
It's not.
This is happening at a higher level than Joe Biden and and Boris Johnson and Angela Merkel and and Macron.
Where is it?
Where is it coming from?
This this this party line.
OK, so let's take the CIA, for example, because I think in many respects it is a higher agency than.
Say anything that's happening in the Congress or the White House, and I would assume That if you're looking at, say, CIA, MI6, etc., etc., that on certain grounds or issues, they are as one.
So they would certainly, to me, be a source of sending messages down the line to the wire services.
Now, where the intelligence agencies, if you want to try to keep backing it up, Where are they taking their orders from?
Then it becomes, at least for me, rather shadowy.
Now we're getting into some real speculation here, but also what I would call some kind of a superstructure that's existed for a long time on many issues of vital importance.
And for example, what I mean is.
Let's say certain banks.
Who would be collaborating with intelligence agencies and saying.
In meetings, very clandestine meetings.
OK, you know we're sketching out a broad agenda here.
We want to obtain agreement among us on what the basic ground rules are, where we stand, what we're trying to do here.
What are we trying to do?
Well, what we're trying to do is.
Set up a system of global governance.
That's what we've been trying to do, at least since 1945.
So we all have to be on board with that, and then it just depends upon.
Uh, the means to get there.
What stand we should take on various issues?
What contributes to furthering the agenda of global governance and the disappearing of sovereign nations?
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And I do believe that at various points in time since 1945, you've seen major banking and financial interests like Rockefeller, Ford, Carnegie, other foundations in Ford, Carnegie, other foundations in collaboration with intelligence agencies setting out this kind of agenda.
That's the best I can do.
Yeah, you're right.
It does get very, very tricky when you try and start asking qui bono or when you start identifying people who are by nature shadowy.
I mean, it's what they've been doing.
What surprises me, although perhaps it shouldn't, is that a lot of the people who for the last two years have have come to understand that the media has been lying to them relentlessly about the pandemic, about the safety of vaccines, about the cause of deaths, of all manner of things.
These people, you would have thought, had learned their lesson, do not trust the lying media.
And yet they've managed to go from I don't believe anything I read the paper in the papers on COVID too.
I mean, quite a few, a few of them anyway, from that point, they've gone to, I believe everything that the papers, the same line papers tell me about what to think about Ukraine.
How do you explain that?
You know, I have no, uh, deep explanation for that.
I mean, I've heard things like inducing mass psychosis, mass brainwashing and so forth.
But I think people have become sufficiently brainwashed over generations now by the education system or the lack of it by media in general to the point where what you just described can actually take place where the rank stupidity of on the one hand saying we've learned not to trust the media because of our experience in the last two years
And then over here, we absolutely trust the media on everything they're saying about Russia and the Ukraine.
This kind of cognitive dissonance is eminently possible because people are in the mental condition that they're in.
I mean, and that has been engendered over a very long period of time now.
I mean, I've seen this in operation.
I'll give you an example.
I write satire from time to time.
So I put out an article.
Headlined Joe Rogan is Russian disinformation.
And then I laid out this incredible scenario where his real name is Yosef Rogozin, a character from Dostoevsky's The Idiot, and that he.
And now in the first paragraph of the story, because I could see what the atmosphere was, you know, I said, normally I do not do this.
guy who got involved, who was a relative of Kennedy's and, you know, had an affair with Rogan or whatever, you know, all this kind of stuff.
And now in the first paragraph of the story, because I could see what the atmosphere was, you know, I said, normally I do not do this.
Okay.
I would never do this because it just takes the air out of everything I'm doing.
But I'm telling you in the first paragraph here, this is set.
I mean, big block letters, capital letter.
This is fiction.
This is satire.
Right?
Yeah.
So we had a guy write to us.
I'm appalled.
I was following your work for years on this, but this.
Is just staggering that you would imply that Rogan a PB Papa Papa PB PB.
Yeah, what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
It's it's like look, I've been working working so hard these last two years to educate people.
You know, I mean, this is my.
This is my holy mission that this is what I'm.
We're we're in the middle of an information war.
Well, World War Three is an information war.
And I'm on the front line and you're on the front line.
We're trying to get the information out to people to explain what's really going on, not to trust the lying media.
And so many people who've who've you know with with a certain degree of trepidation at first and gradually with more enthusiasm have followed me on my roller coaster ride down into the into the abyss and into the the secret world where which explains what's really going on and now I'm getting emails from people saying or on social media comments like you know uh you've gone crazy recently you you're you're um
You know, your position on Russia and Ukraine, you know, you're supporting a murderous dictator.
How can you do this?
And my response to these people is, how can you do this?
How can you?
How can you be?
How can you be so dumb?
You know, I thought I taught you to think critically.
And here you are just going back to the comfort blanket of this of this nanny media who doesn't love you and in fact wants to drown you.
I mean, she's going to she's going to leave you on the doorstep somewhere if you're not careful.
And you trust her, but she's not your friend.
Where are you on the whole Ukraine, Putin, Zelensky thing?
I guess I'm in several different places, but.
One of them is.
People have been led to think somehow because of their stupidity that.
This is the first war that ever happened.
They see buildings, you know, destroyed.
They see people wandering around in these garbage strewn streets and desolation scenes placed on television.
And they're reacting as if war has never happened before.
What about the U.S.
war in Iraq?
I mean, were people led to believe all over the world, including the U.S., that George W. Bush was like Putin, a complete killer?
And ditto for the war of 20 years in Afghanistan?
You know, people, it's as if these things never happened.
And the only war that ever happened is the Putin war.
So that's number one.
I mean, that is truly mind boggling that people could be so stupid as to allow their focus to be narrowed on this one thing and never think about other nations creating war, their own nations creating war.
The second thing is now it seems to me.
The United States led NATO has been muscling in on Russia for quite some time with, uh, we're moving the missiles here and we're moving them a little closer here.
And now we're moving the missiles there.
And now we're going to have the missiles here.
Okay.
So we have this nation Ukraine and are we going to move the missiles there?
Uh, you know, and people say, well, that's ridiculous.
How could Putin be so?
Sensitive about these things.
And then you say, well, suppose the same thing was happening to the United States in Cuba, Haiti, Costa Rica, Panama.
They all had Russian missiles in it.
And then as a guy who has a great page on Substack called, I think, The Good Citizen wrote, and then all of a sudden Mexico.
Has a whole lot of missiles aimed at the United States.
How is it?
How would we feel?
Well, people say, well.
I don't want to think about that.
I just want to think about how ridiculous Putin is to have any sensitivity whatsoever toward these missiles being placed so close to.
Russian borders, I think it's very reasonable to be.
Uh, afraid we have the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, where a lot of people thought the world was ending because Russia was sending missiles to Cuba.
And I was in New York at the time.
On a subway platform talking to a woman saying, is this it?
I mean, are we going to?
And she said, yeah, it could be.
So there's that.
OK.
And then we have this whole thing with these neo-Nazi groups that have been obviously operative in Ukraine for some time.
I'm cloudy on on who these people are, so I don't try to make rash statements about them.
But the stories that I've been reading are saying that these people have been making war against Ukrainians for some time and that it would be a reasonable thing to try.
To make them stop or destroy them because they're insane.
So there's that as well.
So, I mean, those are a few of my reactions right off the bat.
I'm interested in hearing yours.
Yeah, well, my take is not dissimilar from yours.
Occasionally I go to people by saying, yeah, Putin's the good guy in this.
I mean, it's obviously more complicated than that.
Putin is not looking after my interests or your interests.
He's looking after his interests.
And I would say Russia's interests.
I mean, he's got the kind of popularity rating that that all US presidents, apart from possibly Donald Trump, would have absolutely killed for.
I mean, what is it, about 70, 72 percent, I think, something like that.
And I believe it.
I think he is popular with his domestic audience.
I think you're absolutely right.
The CIA has been operating out of Ukraine since 1948.
It's got these it's it's as if the Cold War is still going on.
It's been plotting against Russia since 1948.
George W. Bush promised in 2008 or foolishly said that yes, Ukraine should be joining NATO.
This was against the promises made behind closed doors to Madeleine Albright.
When the Soviet Union collapsed, the Americans indicated that to the Russians that they did not intend to encroach on Russian territory or territory that the Russians considered to be there.
Ukraine is it means borderland and it's it's it's clearly it's it's the sort of Russian Russian sort of outer defensive wall.
All Putin wants is for Ukraine to be neutral.
At the moment, it is not neutral.
It's it's it's it's partly a money laundering operation for the Clinton Foundation.
It's partly a tool of the World Economic Forum.
Zelensky, who reportedly is worth $1.2 billion, didn't earn that money from playing the piano with his penis, which is the thing he was previously most famous for.
When he was in his days as a kind of comedian, I don't believe that Ukrainian comics, even ones with their own TV shows, are so well paid that they can amass a fortune of in excess of a billion.
So something is going on.
So the guy is a puppet.
And then you've got the got the question of the the bioweapons research labs in nine or 11 of them.
And then you've got I mean, look, this is just stuff that we know from people like you and me know from not from reading the newspapers, but from reading informed sources elsewhere.
And of course, when you bring this stuff up, you're accused of being a Putin apologist and you're yes, you bought into Russian propaganda.
But given that all we get in our media is wall to wall Ukraine propaganda, including fake footage, I mean, you mentioned You mentioned that there have been other wars other than the one in Ukraine and that this is being treated as if it is the first war ever.
A lot of the footage we're seeing on the in social media right now and in our newspapers is actually old footage taken from other wars and then rebranded Kyiv, Kyiv, as they insist on calling it now, because, you know, you know, while they while they started started spelling it Kyiv,
Rather than Kiev, they started about 2014 about this about the time of the CIA coup, where the democratically elected president of Ukraine was overthrown and replaced by a kind of a Western stooge.
And this led to the trouble in this sort of civil war, if you like, in the in the Donbass, in the eastern Ukraine and the persecution of the Russian speaking population.
And, you know, lots of people died on both sides.
And part of this Western media campaign that we're seeing come to fruition now with all this kind of blue and yellow flag propaganda, it started then when when newspapers changed the spelling of Kiev to Kyiv.
We're being played.
I mean, even if you, even if you, it seems a reasonable position would seem to me that, look, Putin is not a goodie.
Zelensky is not a goodie.
But most people aren't even there, even at that level of reasonableness.
They're just kind of hot for war.
They actually, we've got people going out to volunteer.
They think this is the Spanish Civil War and that they're going out to fight Fascism, when in fact they're ending up working for the same team as the Azov Brigade who are Nazis.
It doesn't make sense.
It's a time warp.
It really looks like if you were from some other planet and you're looking down and you say, well, wait a minute, they're going back.
Look how many years they're going back.
They're in a time warp.
They're back now in the Cold War.
It's as if the subconscious of many, many people is suddenly being lifted back up again.
Oh, yeah, we remember this.
And this is how we're supposed to react.
This is what we're supposed to do.
This is what we're supposed to feel.
And we're going through it again.
Only of course, they're not saying that to themselves.
They're just experiencing it, which to me is the difference between being victimized by something and actually watching things move by that you're not going to Bite on.
Oh, there's this fiction as passing by my face.
I'm just going to let it go and here's another one passing the other way.
Let's let that go too.
People are biting.
They're digging in.
I'm expecting to see.
OK, this family.
Yeah, we we dug a nuclear bunker in our backyard in 1964 and now we're digging it up again because we're going to need it.
And it is a replay.
Is is what I am seeing on many levels.
It feels the same.
It looks the same.
It sounds the same.
It's the same unanimity.
This is wartime propaganda, and in that situation the country must be unified.
We all know from experience you don't fight a war without having a country unified.
We've got a war now.
It's called the Ukraine and Hitler is Putin.
So everybody has to be unified.
If you're not, you should be sent to a camp.
You should be isolated.
You should be censored.
You should be cut off.
This is definitely happening.
Now, this is a kind of programming that is people say, I don't understand how this is possible.
Well, it is possible.
It's possible to resurrect at any point in time.
The most visceral reactions that existed at an earlier time.
And simply say we're opening up the show again.
That we ran in 1959 and we're restaging it now in 2022.
And it works.
It just works.
On people who are not capable.
Of thinking and not capable of.
Experiencing their own reactions without falling victim to them.
For example, you could read a story about Putin or see somebody on the news talking about it, and you could feel, let's say, certain anger welling up.
As in Orwell's 1984.
OK, I see now.
Yeah, this is the guy.
He's the guy, Putin, the bad guy, and I'm getting angry and I can feel it.
OK, but then if you're awake and aware, You understand what's going on.
Oh, I see what's happening now.
I'm reacting.
I'm ready to take a gun and go over there and try to shoot the guy into the palace.
But that's not me.
That's programming.
And I was just about ready to bite on it.
Unfortunately, we don't have enough people who understand This level of education about what brainwashing and programming really are, to catch it, to know it, in time, that's the problem to me.
Yes.
One of the things I've learned in the last two years is that you cannot truth bomb normies into understanding.
That far from far from realizing that that, you know, there's a different point of view, they just double down, they just they just look at you like you're totally insane.
So I mean, we can make these points about which I think are reasonable points.
We're not trying to kind of goad people on this occasion anyway, into, you know, into some kind of crazy position, where I think everything we've said is, is perfectly reasonable.
And yet, When you try and raise these issues, people just think you can't get beyond that.
Putin is Hitler.
I hate him.
We should assassinate him.
Can you?
It's just where so many people are.
Right.
OK, so I think that you and I and certainly other people.
We've developed other strategies.
Which is?
I don't think there are any names for this kind of thing, but it's in the writing, it's in the words, it's in the way you speak, and so on.
You present people with certain contradictions, and you shove them closer and closer, and you say, you see this?
You see this again?
Do you see that?
And you, you know what I mean?
You're maneuvering.
I know you understand perfectly what I'm saying.
You don't just say, OK, now I'm turning on the machine gun of facts and I will now present to you 16 facts in a row that will change your life forever because you tried that already 100 times.
It didn't work, as you say, that approach.
OK, truth bombing has limited.
I mean, there's a certain people on the fence.
It's great.
But for the people we're talking about, no.
OK, so you put the machine gun aside and then you say, OK, now let's see what else we can do here.
We could lead him down this path just a little ways and they go, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
And then you say, now let me show you where you are on the path, right?
Look around, because this is where you are, you see?
And they go, wait a minute, that's bullshit.
I'm not there.
No, no, no.
Oh, yes, you are.
You see that tree over there?
That's that's where you are.
And you know, you didn't think so.
But this sort of thing does does apply.
It can work depending on who the audience is, what you're doing and so on.
Because this brainwashing can be overcome.
But.
You know.
People have to have to see it in themselves.
They have to realize it.
They have to get it to me.
I don't know.
This was one of the great appeals of Orwell.
At the time that everybody was reading him.
Oh, I see how this works.
You bring up the anger and the outrage, you channel it in the way you want to channel it, and then you control people.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, that works.
Now, if we can just show people how that works in other areas, you know, works over here, works over there.
They hate you.
You hate them.
Why do you think that is?
Have you ever met these friggin people?
Have they ever met you?
No, of course not.
But you hate them and they hate you, right?
Admit it, right?
Yeah, I hate him.
I hate him.
I want to destroy him.
Is this off the record?
Am I being taped?
Because if I'm not, I want to say I want to kill him, you know?
And yes, and they want to kill you, too.
They told me that, you know?
Yeah, right.
Why do you think that?
Where do you think that comes from?
You know, sometimes you get into this and people start to go scratch their heads and they say, well, I don't know.
I don't know where that comes from.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's it's quite interesting, actually, looking looking back at past writers and thinkers and Working out which guys were on our side all along, which guys were the enemy.
So, I mean, Orwell was definitely on our side.
He got it.
I think Aldous Huxley, I mean, he had his, you know, he came from a kind of eugenicist background and a technocrat background.
But maybe he was sort of revealing the inner workings of the kind of people that that he was hanging out with.
I mean, George Bernard Shaw, for example, obviously one of the bad guys, you know, absolutely eugenicist, you know, happy exterminating useless eaters.
He was perfectly upfront about that in his in some of his statements.
Shakespeare, I think Shakespeare was one of us.
I think Shakespeare was kind of sent to guide us.
I don't know.
Yes.
All right, so now that we're on this line, I think something is I could make more clear about this upper shadowy area that we started talking about, who's giving the orders and so forth.
Because if we look at the Rockefeller empire, oil, pharmaceuticals, banking, finance, medical research, and this has been uncovered for a very long time, the footprints of eugenics Eugenics research go very, very deep in the Rockefeller empire for a long time.
Research on sterilization, etc, etc.
Many different methods of sterilization through vaccination, other means and so on.
And there are other things you can read in the literature that show that this empire.
Has been bent for a very long time on wiping out, if possible, very large numbers of people.
No doubt about it.
Because that view from the top, if you want to call it that, is that humans are generally wild animals running around, misprogrammed biological machines that either have to be destroyed or reprogrammed.
That's what technocracy ultimately leads to, is the reprogramming.
No question about that, too.
I just wanted to shine that light because I think behind the scenes that empire has Rockefeller empire has been extremely active in concert with, say, intelligence agencies and so on for a very long time in forwarding their agenda, which involves global governance, the destroying of separate nations, torpedoing economies, building on the ashes, Order from chaos, etc.
All of those things are quite obvious to me, and they have been after that for a very, very long time in various ways.
And when you see Klaus Schwab of the World Economic Forum bloviating on and on and on, he is just simply the latest kind of mouthpiece for that agenda.
Yeah.
Yeah, somebody somebody in my telegram group, I think, unearthed this fascinating document from about.
I think it was the late the late 60s, I think the World Economic Forum was founded in 1971 when Klaus Schwab was really was really quite a young, quite a young man.
Now, clearly he didn't.
We had a different name than had a less ambitious name.
Well, Schwab had clearly been chosen to lead an organization which was required by the, I don't know what you call them, the cabal, the predator elite.
I think, in a way, the best term is the predator class.
I think that there has always been this very, very upper echelon, narrow predator class, which has preyed on the mass of humanity.
And this goes back, I'm sure, to at least Babylonian times.
They've always been with us.
And part of their trick is to persuade them that.
Persuade us that they don't exist, that the very thought of thinking about such people might exist is just a kind of crazy, paranoid conspiracy theory.
But I do know that I think it was in the late 60s.
They said, you know, at one of their one of their shadowy organizations, we need this new group which can which can be created to discuss these issues.
And so the World Economic Forum or whatever it's called, when it was founded in 1971, was created as a kind of Focus for these for this predator elite to come for their meetings in Davos, their economic stronghold in Switzerland and to plot.
And for many years, they plotted in a way that seemed to us to be rather silly and innocuous, like, you know, they were talking about all these goals and stuff, which seemed crazy.
It's only recently, I think, that we've come to appreciate that actually that they were deadly serious about this stuff.
And all of this stuff has been very carefully planned.
I mean, for example, you know, we were talking earlier about how the media, the media forms your thing, is part of the mass brainwashing that takes place.
And I was thinking, why are people feeling so strongly about Putin now?
It's because during the Trump era, for example, they were told that Putin was, you know, had basically put Trump into power and that, or that his, you know, intelligence agencies were working against America, including with There were these fake stories about Trump and Russian prostitutes and so on.
For years we've been told by various intelligence experts and senior military officers and newspaper columnists that Russia is the enemy, when clearly it isn't to the degree that China is.
So we've been prepared for this for a long time, haven't we?
We've been brainwashed into it.
Certainly, absolutely.
And of course, Schwab's mentor at Harvard was Henry Kissinger.
Yes, so that relationship is key.
And Kissinger is the infamous author of a national security memorandum, which I believe it's interesting because, as you say, 1971 World Economic Forum.
And I believe this memorandum was 1972 Kissinger memorandum discussing depopulation in the third world.
Making the point that it was necessary to depopulate the third world in order for certain economic, uh, you know, exploitation and so forth.
How are we going to get to the resources and how are we going to integrate, uh, make a corporations with, uh, these resources, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So, and I absolutely agree about the predator class.
This has always existed.
And I think, to my reading, Huxley was, in a sense, talking out of school.
He was saying, look, I know this.
This is the scientific version of where it's going.
This is where people of the predator class want it to go, and they can do it if they have the science.
And this is what they're going to try to do.
Well, that's technocracy.
That is the same ballpark.
If we can genetically alter humans into casts so that we can say at this stratum they do this, at this stratum they do this, and they're chained up in the brain, in the genes, so they can't think of doing anything else, then we win, says the predator class.
And then there are all these other methods of conditioning described in Brave New World.
Heat and cold in the womb, this sort of thing, all of this kind of stuff.
Very informative.
And right on the money, because this is where research is now going.
Something called gene drives.
A gene drive is a method of Extinguishing potentially extinguishing a species.
And the experiments that have just really begun on it in earnest.
Oh, we've got this isolated island.
There's a small population and they have a tremendous problem with rodent infestation.
Now, is there a way that we can engineer the genes of a relatively small number of rodents so that future generations are not born because the males are infertile or the females can't reproduce or whatever it is.
Yes, it appears we can do this.
It appears we can.
Well, I mean, sure.
But wait a minute.
You know, how far do you want to go with this?
Yeah, exactly.
Well, isn't that what they're trying to do with mosquitoes?
I mean, there are people who are convinced that this is the way to go.
First they came for the mosquitoes, but I was not a mosquito, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the rats.
Right.
We've moved from the mosquito to the rat.
So now the rabbit will be next and then the monkey.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, there are people who are convinced that this is the way to go.
And these are high IQ people, unfortunately.
They look around and they say.
We're in the.
The world population is in untenable position.
The future is very bleak.
The species, one way or another, going to destroy itself.
It's just the way it is.
We can see that and hear the studies and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And the only way out is to change the human.
And these people are very serious about that.
This is something I've noticed.
I noticed it when I was involved.
I used to write a lot about the environment, about environmentalists and their philosophy.
And what struck me quite often is that even civilized people, really intelligent people who got most of the stuff I was saying about, you know, climate change being a con and stuff, they would nevertheless take you aside and sort of tap their nose and say, well, of course, the elephant in the room is overpopulation.
And this view is particularly prevalent among the upper classes, that there is this view that humans are a problem.
And they're all they're all Malthusians.
And I find it quite shocking because they they really haven't thought it through.
I don't know how you could I don't believe that humans are a problem.
I don't, I don't look at Africans and think, well, you shouldn't have children because you're, you're a kind of verminous, you know, plague on the planet and you're, you know, you're useless eaters.
I just think like the joy of, of, of parenthood is a great thing.
And, and actually left to their own devices.
Once you improve people's life expectancy, they do tend to reproduce less because they, and especially if they're not bankrolled by The state, as they are, I mean, we've got this ridiculous situation in the West where very, very poor people, probably less intelligent people, are paid by the state to have children while the intelligent people can't afford to have children because they've got to educate them and stuff like that.
So what you get is dysgenics.
Yeah, self-fulfilling prophecy, well sure.
and the dumbing down of the pop, which may be a situation that has been created by the elites to make us more pliable and, you know, ultimately to make us less worth saving, you know, to sort of fulfill their own prophecies.
I don't know.
Yeah, self-fulfilling prophecy.
Well, sure.
For example, what about the philosophy, basically, of leaving people alone?
You know, what an idea.
Oh, we're really going to have to think about this.
For example, to say, oh yes, Africa.
Very interesting things are going on there.
None of our business.
They live how they live.
Some say, well, that's racist.
No, I think it's the opposite, isn't it?
Really?
It's saying.
The people who live where they're living.
Decide how they want to live and then they live that way.
Therefore, for us to go there, interfere and say, look, we want to make a deal.
We want to do this.
We want to help you do that.
We want to change what you're doing because we think that's wrong and this is right and we can pay you.
And if we pay you, this is what you can do with the money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And if you don't like that whole idea behind me, there's an army.
Just in case we can't make a deal.
So what kind of turmoil do you think that's going to cause, which is then going to have the predator class looking down on all of that, saying, you know, those people over there are simply unmanageable and we have to depopulate them.
I mean, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, no question about it.
It also obscures and leads to all kinds of fairy tales and myths that are told at home, for example, about Africa.
I mean, I don't think there's any question if you want.
And people, I mean, black scholars have said this.
If you were to go in Africa back into centuries, centuries, centuries, way before the white man ever arrived.
Black Africans are selling black Africans as slaves in huge numbers to each other.
Various tribes and so on and so on.
OK.
But then what's the attitude here at home that would be a sane attitude?
OK, now are we going to go in there and say we're going to change all this now?
Because obviously.
You know, this is horrendous and you can't keep doing this.
Oh yeah.
Have you ever heard of the solution worse than the problem?
You really think you know enough to intervene and interfere and change everybody's lives?
Because obviously slavery is wrong.
OK, we can all agree over here on that.
Yeah, but what are the consequences of, you know, going to where people are?
And saying, No, we have to change all this.
That's where to me, a great amount of the idea comes from, of the predator class that looks down and says, these humans are unmanageable, and we have to change them or destroy them, depopulate them, and so on.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, fundamentally, in the worldview of of the predator class is that They hate us.
We are scum.
We are so awful that the only way that we can be allowed to live is if we are told how to behave, whether by being brainwashing or whether being Physically forced to do so or whatever.
We have to be controlled because we are not trusted.
We are not fit to forge our own destinies.
And that is the fundamental problem.
And that's why you get.
I mean, we know that we from the researchers of Anthony Sutton, for example, that the The the Bolshevik Revolution was essentially a product of the international predator class.
It was it wasn't an organic movement.
It was it was funded by by Wall Street.
Same with the First and Second World Wars.
So they play this.
They play these games all the time because they hate us.
I mean, obviously, there are other motivations as well, you know, money and power and stuff, but definitely inbuilt in their Yeah, okay.
I'm with you, James.
Now we're getting down to it.
a kind of um a misanthropy they despise us and they want to i think they quite they quite enjoy making us suffer on the way to enriching themselves yeah okay i'm with you james now we're getting down to it because look if you're going to fund both sides of a war which they do and this is demonstrable this is not just speculation
then you know that large numbers of people are going to be killed named destroyed lives ruined etc etc on a vast scale now Now, what would you say is the predator class attitude toward these people if they're just quite okay with having that happen?
Of course!
They hate those people, which is us, or anybody who would be You know, forced or brainwashed into participating in such a war.
And they wouldn't think for a moment that there was a problem with the damage incurred or the loss of life or any of that.
It's just it's a good thing because it wipes out these troublesome people who are, you know, bad and and uncontrollable to begin with and don't deserve to be called human beings, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So that is the attitude.
And there's also another level to this.
They actually need blood sacrifices to Baal, to Moloch, you know, or their successors.
I mean, because they are not, they are not, I mean, they're anti-Christian, they are anti-God.
They are the people, the gods that they worship are dark gods who require blood sacrifices, I believe.
Okay, I don't know.
That I would go there.
I'm not saying I don't believe it.
The way I would put it is.
If you're a predator of the predator class.
Then there is a sense of initiation, meaning you are going to commit serious crimes.
Real serious crimes.
And.
In the process of doing that, you walk through a door.
And the door closes behind you psychologically, spiritually.
How are you going to get back?
How are you?
And this is a serious.
How do you get back?
Well, from the overwhelming majority of those predator people, there is no coming back.
There is only going forward.
The only solution to the crimes you've already committed is to commit more and worse crimes.
Now embracing it as some kind of philosophy, you know?
Yes.
That means something, giving it expanse and expanding on it and proliferating it and giving it some kind of stature so that you can now explain why you walk through all these doors and destroyed so many lives giving it expanse and expanding on it and proliferating it and giving it some kind of stature murdering monsters Motherfucker.
Which is which is.
This is this is exactly what what Shakespeare you know he's I think he was one of us when he gave those lines to Macbeth when Macbeth says I am in blood stepped in so far that should I wait no more returning were as tedious as go up and what he's saying is you know I've done so much bad shit that I mean I've got to go on doing bad shit.
I'm just going to change that.
Give me one second while I just change that flashing light so I don't give everyone epileptic fits.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I've got this theory, John, which I want to run by you, which is that.
All the big things we know, all the biggest things we know about the world, about sort of historical events are almost by definition a lie, because because I'll enlarge on this theory in a moment that
The forces we've described, the media, for example, the academe, etc, the culture, Hollywood and stuff, they've encouraged us to focus on these things ad nauseum, so they become part of our consciousness of our understanding of the world.
So you think, for example, what are the big events of the world that people know about, that people are emotionally involved with, even though they may not have been alive at the time?
Or say, you've got Um, the moon landings, you know, everyone knows about the moon landings, just amazing, you know, amazing achievement.
You've got 9-11, you know, big deal.
You know, everyone can remember where they were when 9-11 happened.
You've got the AIDS crisis.
Everyone knows it was a terrible thing.
It ravaged the, the, the gay community and, and we've, you know, lots of plays were written about it.
And we, you know, we, we read books about it, Armistead Maupin and stuff, and we know about that.
um the first and second world wars obviously we know we know what the causes of the first and second world war you know we know who the bad guys guys are you could go on and on like this that there are and yet in almost every case when you look into them you you realize that they are not as sold i mean if you'd ask me if you'd ask me five years ago uh what i thought of
The AIDS crisis, you know, or if you'd approached me and said, you know, you know, it was all just kind of made up shit.
It didn't really happen.
I'd go, what do you mean?
Well, of course, of course it happened.
I know everyone knows that HIV causes AIDS.
Everyone knows that that it was thanks to these antiretroviral drugs, you know, like AZT, that finally the tide was turned and the heroic scientists who produced these drugs, they saved the gay community.
And now here I am talking to a guy who's written a book.
I haven't read your book on AIDS, but I'm sure I would agree with it totally.
Can you just give me the kind of the short version of what happened in AIDS?
Presumably people did die of something initially, but how did it get worked up into this fiction that everyone believed?
Well, let's take Africa, for example.
The Predator class needed a cover story to explain all the deaths and dying that occurred from corporate takeovers of farmland, from immense industrial pollution caused by that, by local governments in Africa maintaining
The extreme poverty of their own populations, thus weakening them, keeping them in a weakened state through never cleaning up the water supplies, contamination of sewage and this and that, and, you know, starvation, various kinds of toxic drugs and medicines that had been exported to the third world for a very long time, pesticides and, you know,
All of these causes and more.
So in 1985, an African scientist named Sir Wada, and I think he's still around and doing quite well, wrote a paper that was published in one of the British journals, I guess, Lancet maybe, in which he talked about the discovery of slim disease.
Now, slim disease was characterized by wasting away.
Protein, calorie malnutrition, hunger, starvation, persistent chronic diarrhea in the young caused by all of those things I just mentioned that leads to eventual wasting away in death and so forth.
And now all of a sudden weight slim became AIDS.
And this cause was said to be HIV.
And doctors in Africa who have been making like 50 bucks a month now could make like 800 a month paid by the World Health Organization to open AIDS clinics and to do research and work in hospitals and so on and so on.
And the infrastructure built and so on.
And then the beneficent pharmaceutical companies could come in and give the toxic AIDS drugs to the third world, killing more people.
All this would be recorded as AIDS deaths and whatever, whatever, and so on and so forth.
Meanwhile, in gay communities, let's say in America, in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, and so on and so forth.
You had a similar situation only to the degree that the common denominator between, let's say, New York, pockets of the gay community in New York and Africa was suppression of the immune system.
So that the.
The person could now die from just about anything coming down the pipeline because he had no immune system left.
That was said to be the hallmark of AIDS, whether it's in Africa or New York or San Francisco or whatever, Haiti, among IV drug users, among hemophiliacs who are receiving artificial factor VIII and this and that, and that is immune suppression.
Well, if you read the literature, which I did in the basement of the Biomed library at UCLA in 1986, 87, 88, you find that the biggest cause of what's called T cell immune suppression in the world is acknowledged to be malnutrition.
So anywhere you find malnutrition, like Vietnam or Indonesia or whatever, you can come in with a definition of AIDS and HIV, as long as you have a test that will read positive for HIV.
And many tests were rigged to do exactly that.
So you come in, same with COVID, you come in with a test.
Yeah, I was gonna say this sounds this sounds so familiar.
Yeah, that's why as soon as it was a dry run.
Yeah, exactly.
So those are some of the ways that this whole thing got off the ground.
Meanwhile, and And, uh, gay men in New York were not so prone to admire this explanation.
But I've certainly, I mean, I remember giving a lecture at a gay bookstore in, um, Los Angeles in 1990 about my book and having a few people there listening and being interested in which I said, HIV is not the cause of AIDS.
If you look at every risk group, so-called risk group, you find Reasons for immune suppression in that group that have nothing to do with HIV.
Sufficient reasons that would destroy the immune system, whether it's Africa, Haiti, IV drug users, gay men in New York.
The reasons are not the same from group to group, but they all produce immune suppression, leading to so-called opportunistic infections and people dying all over the place, getting weak and dying.
And if you look, and I interviewed gay men in San Francisco and said, and they said, let me tell you about the bath houses.
I said, you're really going to talk about that?
They said, yeah, because you got to know what was going on there.
If you want to know about immune suppression behavior.
I said, okay, go for it.
No.
First of all, you got a guy on the premises who was selling drugs, all kinds of drugs.
All manner designer drugs and cocaine and heroin and this and that, whatever you need, whatever you want in copious quantities.
That's a given.
And then you've got mix and match people having sex with multiple, multiple, multiple partners.
And not only exhausting themselves and their adrenal and endocrine systems, but acquiring all kinds of STD infections and reinfections and so on and so forth.
And then, say in San Francisco,
You had the sale of certain designer drugs, I don't recall the name now, it's not that arcane, sort of like ecstasy, which when combined with having multiple sex partners on say a weekly basis in the bathhouse over a month, two month, three month period, he said, this just wiped people out.
I said, what do you mean white people?
He said, kill them.
They've lost all their energy.
They just got sick.
Their immune systems were destroyed.
They died.
I said, okay, this is what you're telling me.
He said, I was there.
This happened.
People don't want to talk about it, but if immune suppression is the hallmark of AIDS, no matter what population you go to, Then you have to do some sociological chemical analysis and look at certain pockets of these communities.
And then I said, OK, but obviously there are gay men in New York and San Francisco and L.A.
who are being diagnosed with AIDS and dying who are not part of the bathhouse scene.
And then he said, OK.
You're kidding me, right?
You haven't read the studies.
And I said, OK, I've read the studies.
I read John Lauritsen, who just died by the way, a great journalist in America who exposed the AZT clinical trials that led to the licensing of the drug and other AZT clinical trials that showed that the drug was gigantically destructive, especially at the high dosage it was being prescribed, and that it was killing men off in huge numbers.
Mostly gay men, because gay men were going to be diagnosed for AIDS or pre-AIDS or whatever.
The drug is a failed chemo drug.
Therefore, what it was used for and put on the shelf, because it failed, was it kills all cells of the body.
That's what chemo drugs do.
And the hope is that it kills the tumor cells before it kills the person.
That's the traditional principle of chemo.
And so they took a chemo drug off the shelves.
No logic, no reason, no rhyme or reason, except that Robert Gallo had convinced the medical world that HIV was an invariably fatal virus.
Therefore, nothing to lose.
Let's try anything.
So let's try a killer drug that will destroy all cells of the body by keeping them from reproducing and hope that it destroys HIV before it destroys the human.
And that's how AGT got off the ground.
And that goes a long way toward explaining other deaths in, say, gay community in America and other Western countries who are not involved in, let's say, A very destructive bathhouse scene.
So, you know, you begin to build all this up and you begin to see in these different risk groups.
Oh, yeah.
Well, if you just lose the label AIDS, push that aside and realize, hey, we're being told there's a new horror show in town.
It's called AIDS.
We're going to push that aside.
The key factor here is immune system suppression.
OK, well, that's universal.
But they're now saying pretty much anywhere we want to go, anybody we want to diagnose, we're going to say that immune suppression is called AIDS and it's caused by HIV.
That's a friggin' con right off the bat.
We can prove that.
And that's what you get.
That's what I worked through for quite a long time to see what the con was, because I was being conned when I wrote the book.
I still couldn't figure it out.
Until I backed up far enough to say, well, wait a minute.
Here's a scientist at UC Berkeley, famous cancer researcher, getting all kinds of grants, Peter Duesberg.
He just wrote a paper in March of 1987 in a journal called Cancer Research saying that HIV is really not a candidate to assume is the cause of immune suppression whatsoever at all.
And I began to hear other scientists and other journalists.
And I looked into that and I said, OK, now I can back up from this.
Now I'm not hypnotized by this story about HIV anymore.
Now I can start looking at the risk groups.
I got on the phone with a health worker in Haiti.
Because Haitians, the CDC said, are one of the high risk groups for AIDS.
She's been there for a long time working, I think, with the UN.
I mean, Haiti, just the most poverty stricken place you can imagine in many areas.
And I said, so I'm calling because I'm writing a book on AIDS and so I'm interested in what you're seeing with HIV.
And she said, what the fuck are you talking about?
You don't know the first thing about what's happening in Haiti.
People are dying in Haiti for all kinds of reasons.
Like there's no drinking water.
There's sewage everywhere.
People are poverty, the CIA, the CIA.
you know, stolen land, farmland, they have no food, this, that.
This is what I'm dealing with every day.
And you're talking to me about this thing called HIV.
You know, get the fuck out of here.
Don't talk to me anymore.
You know, people who began to blow the whistle and say, this is what's really going on.
And I mean, and this was all this was all fancy, wasn't it?
I mean, not all of it Fauci, but Fauci was, this was his.
Pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing.
Yeah.
Pushing to treatments, pushing, you know, at first, um, he was considered to be an enemy by gay activists, but then he suddenly went over to their side.
They believed and still believe.
He became our guy.
He pushed for more funding.
More research, more this, more drugs, blah blah blah.
You know, the ideal connected medical bureaucrat raising his own position while appearing to solve, you know, major medical problems.
Sure.
Did you get a lot of, I mean, I imagine you got a lot of heat for this book.
I mean, did you get sympathy from the AIDS, the gay community or anything like that?
Or were you rejected as a kind of weirdo?
From individual gay men I did, yeah, who said, save my life when I stopped taking AZT or I never took it and my partner I'm living with, he took it and he died in three months and I'm still alive.
So, On an individual basis, I got sympathy.
I certainly got sympathy from health freedom activists that I became very well acquainted with who said, basically, this is my body.
I can do whatever I want with it.
And if I'm sick, medical people can call it whatever they want to.
I'm going to call it whatever I want to and use whatever remedies I think are appropriate.
Those people, I talked with a White House policy analyst under Reagan named Kim Warner.
It's kind of a fascinating story.
Chuck Ortleb was the editor-publisher of a newspaper in New York called New York Native.
Mind-blowing newspaper.
Started out with $500.
Put out a weekly newspaper that looked like the New York Post or the Daily News tabloid style.
He through, I guess, John Lauritsen, alerted the world to Peter Duisburg and the rejection of HIV scientifically as the cause of AIDS in the mid-19, alerted the world to Peter Duisburg and the rejection of HIV scientifically Chuck Hartlebb was a hero.
That newspaper, by the way, in New York City, was on the newsstands, in the streets, with the New York Post, New York Times, Daily News.
I went to New York, because I wrote a couple articles for the New York Native, and I saw the paper was on the newsstands!
I mean, how?
Manage that!
Beyond, beyond belief.
Anyway, he broke the story of Jim Warner, the policy analyst at the Reagan White House.
So at the time I was living in Los Angeles, and I called Jim Warner to interview him, which I did, and then LA Weekly published it in 1987 or 88.
And I said to Jim Warner, I said, I hear you're interested in the HIV debate.
He said, very much so.
He said, I've been trying to talk to scientists at National Institutes of Health, and he said, I work at the White House, and I have trouble getting through and talking to these people.
They think they own the show.
You know, they just, they're running the whole deal.
And I said, yeah, they do, don't they?
He said, yeah.
I said, I have a suggestion for you.
I said, the NIH, National Institutes of Health, the biggest medical research agency in the How about the White House sponsoring a deep audit of everything NIH has ever really accomplished to see whether they've ever done one fucking thing that really, really actually is saving lives with the billions and hundreds of billions of dollars that they've sucked up in research money.
He said, that's a very good idea.
I want to see if I can, you know, I can do that.
And I said, Well, I do want to tell you the debate in some quarters over whether HIV causes AIDS is very much alive.
He said it is with me, too.
He said, I think it's disgusting that Peter Duisburg, who's one of the great American scientists, has been totally demeaned, cut off from money, exiled from the scientific medical research community.
His own university, UC Berkeley, now is treating him like some kind of, you know, Hard specimen that has to be distanced from and they can't really fire him because he has tenure, but they're going to cut off funding for his lab and and tell students not to study with him and all kinds of shit like this, right?
I said, yeah.
Yeah, no, he said it's just disgusting that they would do this.
You know, to a real scientist and I said, well, you know, I've got a friend at a journal in New York.
Uh, who?
There's a well-known molecular biologist who's organizing a roundtable of distinguished people to discuss whether HIV really causes AIDS.
I think he might be interested in sitting in on it.
So Jim Warner, policy analyst at the Reagan White House says to me, yeah, he said, why don't we stage it at the White House?
And I said, great idea.
And I said, here's my guy's number.
Call him up and tell him.
And he did.
And for a brief moment, a week or two, it looked like maybe that was going to happen.
And somebody at the White House was actually going to say, you know, there is a question about whether the announcement by Robert Gallo in 1984 at a press conference that HIV causes AIDS was correct.
And we need to look at the science if we want to really save lives here.
It looked like that might happen.
And then boom, boom, boom.
No, no, no, no.
Cut it off, not going to happen at the White House, forget about it, never going to happen.
And so I said to Jim Warner, he said to me, he said, you know, and this is a whole story of modeling borrowing proportion, he said, I was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
And he and he was a prisoner of war for months.
And I mean the pain, the torture, the attempt to get him to roll over and say certain things against his companions and America and the shit that he undertook and refused to budge.
And he said, when I was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, he said, I lost 80 pounds.
He said I was certainly suffering from immunosuppression.
He said somebody could have said I had AIDS, you know, in the 1960s, he said, but I didn't have AIDS.
Yeah, you're bringing up old debates, old this, old that.
I could talk to you for hours, John.
You are absolutely a joy to talk to.
Unfortunately, I've got to go in a second.
I've taken up too much of your time.
But listen, did you get out of him how this meeting was sabotaged?
Where was the pressure coming from?
I'm trying to remember now.
The statement, I don't remember the person, but the statement was something like,
It would reflect badly or create a bad impression if the White House itself was seen to be sponsoring such an event, which is kind of an interesting comment because it doesn't simply mean that the White House is too high level to be sponsoring the event, but it also means that the NIH, you know, those motherfuckers,
Wouldn't be sponsoring the event and the White House would be stealing a little bit of their scientific thunder, which must never happen.
The CDC, the FDA and Fauci, you know, they must rule the landscape and not the president or the Congress or the governors.
You know, it's the same story.
It's crazy isn't it because we we all look back or some of us look back on on on the Reagan administration as as you know a sort of golden era the when when
When America America still had a kind of positive vision of itself and that and that Reagan wouldn't take this shit, you know Look, look how he treated the air traffic controllers when they when they tried to hold him to ransom and he was an enemy of Big government and he recognized, you know, what the seven most dangerous words in the English language are I'm from the government I'm here to help all this stuff all these aphorisms and you think well, yeah, and actually when push came to shove even then I
Even the Reagan White House was in thrall to this kind of bureaucratic overreach and the NIH, which was, you know, I mean, it was a was a was a tiny acorn compared to the the the giant sort of predator oak it's become now.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's a good story.
Yeah.
So you were you were I've got I can't carry on this conversation because I've got to go.
But John, look, I think it was about a year ago since I last interviewed you.
Well, no, talked to you.
I don't do interviews.
We last chatted.
So let's try and make it the gap shorter next time.
I'll try and fix something.
Anytime, man.
You're great.
You're great, James.
Love you, too.
Anytime, man.
Anytime.
OK.
OK, it's good.
So is there anything you want to plug?
No!
That's great.
Cool.
May I remind my lovely viewers and listeners that freedom isn't free.
You can support me on Patreon, Subscribestar.
I've just started a locals thing.
I'm on Subscribestar.
Yeah, just help support me.
I really appreciate those of you who do and it's a great community and we've got to fight the car.
John Rappaport, thank you so much again.
It's been absolute joy and I love your aid stories.
And my Czech producer, I'm sure he's going to kill me, because he wants me to say, as we speak, I'm launching a Substack page.
John Rappaport's Substack.
So you can find it.
I don't have the link in front of me, but John Rappaport's Substack.
Check it out.
It's crazy.
And I think you might like it.
I think it probably would be crazy, but kind of cool.
Just like you, James.
Thank you, James.
All right.
Talk to you soon.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
Yeah, OK.
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