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Feb. 6, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:37:03

Mark Devlin

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	Welcome to The Deling Pod with me, James Delingpole.
	I know I always say I'm excited about this big special guest, but I totally am.
	It's Mark Devlin.
	Mark, I can't believe it's taken us so long.
	You're a hero of the rabbit hole.
	Well, it's very kind of you to say so.
	It's very kind of you to invite me on the show.
	I have heard you say that you're excited about every guest you get on, but I do appreciate the welcome.
	And as you say, we live very close to each other.
	We discovered this a while back, so it would have been madness not to do a show face-to-face, given that we're in the same vicinity.
	It totally would.
	I'm going to take the opportunity to ask you all the really annoying questions that everyone asks all the time about Mark Devlin.
	Because you've...
	You've cornered a particular niche in the market, which is that you've enlightened us about the darkness within the music industry.
	And in the process, you've kind of ruined a lot of music for us.
	That's what I do.
	Yeah, it's cruel, isn't it?
	Even Kate Bush.
	That's true, isn't it?
	Even Kate Bush is not altogether a goody.
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, any prominent household name artist that everyone's heard of will have had their fame and their fortune and their success facilitated for them by those that can make this kind of thing happen.
	So, of course, Kate Bush being a successful artist and Very prominent as she's been.
	Will be no exception to that rule.
	I do make a joke at the public talks that I do, that if I've not pissed off your particular fondness for a nostalgic attachment to a certain act, then please be patient, I will get around to yours eventually.
	But I usually continue on that regard by saying that I don't actually get any joy from doing this.
	It's not that I set out to destroy people's attachment to their favourite artists.
	It's just that a vacancy existed for somebody to step into this role and be doing this kind of work.
	And it seems my dumb arse was waiting right there to be ushered into this role.
	I think there was a position for somebody to bring this piece of the puzzle to the table and we have many other whistleblowers and experts in their different fields.
	You have doctors coming forward now, you've got experts from the world of politics, financial analysts, people that study terror events and they can all bring their own expertise to the table.
	I know very little about those subject areas but I do know a lot about music so this is my contribution and my gift to the overall process of us trying to put the pieces together and figure out What the hell is going on in this world?
	So, until, was it 2010 when you went down the rubber hole?
	Yeah.
	So, up until that point, you were a successful dance music DJ?
	Hip-hop?
	Yeah, I was a club and radio DJ for 20 odd years as my full-time job.
	So I got into it all in the early 90s.
	I started working at a radio station in Oxford and I produced a show which used to be broadcast from a club of the time called the Park End Club in the centre of town.
	And I used to go down to the club after the broadcast and just get involved with the music and dance to it.
	I was into house music at the time.
	And one thing led to another and I really decided that I wanted to be a club DJ myself and did a bit of hustling, did a bit of networking and in the mid-90s I kind of established myself as a DJ but I was playing the black dance music styles of the time so it was rap and hip-hop, R&B, hip-hop soul, new jack swing as it was termed at the time, reggae, ragga as it was known.
	Like the stuff that Tim Westwood was playing on Radio 1?
	Yeah, yeah.
	The Bishop's Son?
	Yeah, exactly.
	He was actually a big influence on me as a DJ, but I don't follow him anymore and I see him in a very different light to what I did back in the day.
	Oh, do you?
	Oh yeah.
	Okay, so his father was the Bishop of...?
	Bishop of Peterborough.
	Yeah.
	So you think that he too was selected for his role?
	I do, and in the current book I've actually got an appendix chapter looking into his background and asking these important questions about where he came from and whether he was selected to be a gatekeeper for the UK hip-hop scene, which is what I feel about him now.
	If you'd told me this back in the 90s I wouldn't have been having it.
	And I probably wouldn't have been the DJ that I was if he hadn't given me my start in the game in terms of being an influence and getting me into that style of music.
	But as we've discussed in a separate chat, where we need to be.
	And it's clear to me now that my main role in life was not to be a DJ.
	It was to be doing this work that I'm doing now.
	That was a preparatory period that got me the skills and the experience I needed to bring to the table for what I'm now doing. - Very interesting.
	There were lots of things I wanted to do in life.
	I wanted to be an archaeologist.
	I wanted to be in the SAS at one point.
	I wanted to be a barrister.
	Definitely at one stage I wanted to be a DJ.
	I imagine that being a DJ is great.
	Apart from the hours.
	Horrible hours.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Did your sleep patterns get completely disrupted?
	Oh, totally.
	Yeah, my body clock is shot to pieces.
	I mean, when you're a younger man, or lady, you can handle these things.
	So when I was in my 20s, it was no problem.
	And I can remember I used to do a residency at a club in Cardiff in the late 90s.
	It was called Late Night Flavour.
	And it was a club called The Forum, and it ran all night till 6 in the morning.
	And for some reason I got both the first set of the night kicking off at 10 o'clock and the last set from 4 till 6 in the morning and a big gap in between.
	So I would DJ till 6 in the morning and then drive home, 2 hour drive to where I lived and go to bed at 8 o'clock on a Sunday morning and sleep all day.
	And in the winter months I was going to bed just as the sun was coming up and I was getting up as the sun had gone down so I never saw daylight.
	It was a totally nocturnal I'm imagining living that way at the point in life that I'm now at.
	I like daylight.
	I like vitamin D from the sun.
	But back then, I seemingly was able to cope.
	So before we get out of the rabbit hole, I want to find out a bit of your previous life.
	And about DJing, now I've got you.
	So what's the appeal?
	I imagine it's the sort of power you have over the people on the dance floor.
	You can manipulate them.
	You can generate highs and euphoria and stuff, is that it?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And pull women as well, if you're successful.
	Which, I never really was, but... Oh, surely even a mediocre DJ can pull women?
	Well, you can pull a few.
	Because they think the DJ is God.
	You don't necessarily get the hottest girl in the room, but you can usually go home with someone if you set out to achieve that.
	But I've likened the DJ's role to that of a religious priest or somebody presiding over a congregation in a church.
	Very much.
	And there's a lot of parallels.
	The altar is the DJ booth and the priest is the DJ.
	You've got the command of the crowd, you can whip them up into states of euphoria.
	You can control their thoughts and their emotions at a whim.
	All it takes is for a DJ of superstar status to be up there at some festival with 10,000 people in front of them.
	They can start clapping their hands like this and you can have 10,000 people out there mimicking your actions.
	That's an incredible amount of control to have over a large number of people.
	Big responsibility comes with that, of course.
	If it's misplaced responsibility, it could be steered off in some very nefarious directions.
	Yeah, I see that.
	I'm just trying to think of the upsides and the other upsides.
	Yeah, terrible, terrible hours.
	Lots of drugs, should you wish.
	Lots of drugs.
	I never actually did drugs myself.
	Did you not?
	No, I stayed away from all of that.
	Did you not ever take E?
	No.
	Never done it in my life.
	So I was the one who peeled off his face in front of your DJ booth.
	Well, I was, yeah.
	I think that's all down to me liking control over my life.
	I don't like the idea of not being in control of things.
	And that's why I've found the past couple of years so personally difficult to deal with because I used to be a planner.
	It's just part of my nature.
	I'm quite an impeccable planner and preparer.
	So I usually have the next six months of my life mapped out in the diary so I know where I'm going, what I'm going to be doing.
	Last couple of years none of us have been able to do that.
	Yeah.
	And I've found that difficult to deal with because of the level of control I normally have over my life and I think that's probably why I never did drugs because I never knew what the outcome would be.
	Right.
	I don't like surprises of that nature.
	That's interesting, yeah.
	But of course, it would have been a lifesaver as well, because I imagine that if you've got drugs on tap all the time and you're taking them...
	It's soon going to become a problem.
	Yep.
	I've got many friends from back in the day whose lives are a mess now as a result of all the drugs they did back in the 90s.
	But it's an interesting thing because while I've never done things like E and manufactured artificial stimulants, at this stage of my life I'm very open to the idea of doing entheogens.
	What, some DMT and stuff?
	Yeah, ayahuasca and such.
	If I got offered an experience like that, in the right conditions, with a shaman present, and just with everything as it should be, I would actually be very open to that now, because of the journey of self-discovery.
	Where you'd see the grey men?
	That leads to, yeah.
	They all see the grey men, apparently.
	Oh yeah?
	Yeah.
	He's a little gray people.
	Okay.
	Um, because there are these parallel, but so I, so I, I, I, I gather.
	So yeah, very interesting that you, do you think, and I don't doubt it that you were selected on the kind of, well, what I, in my own case, I call my holy mission from God.
	And you, you, you were on a similar, a similar mission to inform.
	I've, I've heard, um, lens of your, your, your podcasts and, uh, the way you talk about how, Um, everyone in the industry is compromised.
	And you refer to Weird Things Inside the Gold Mine, where we learn that the whole Laurel Canyon crowd were essentially children of high-level military figures or CIA.
	They were plants, weren't they?
	Yeah.
	Well the work of Dave McGowan that you're referencing there casts a very different light on where these musicians came from because we're entrained in society to imagine that successful musicians just wrote some really good songs, came up with a few really good guitar riffs, put a band together, jammed, practiced, played a few gigs, worked their way I think so.
	wreck the ladder, did a bit of hobnobbing and networking, got signed a record contract, and went on to these incredible levels of success.
	But my research has shown me that this is not the case.
	And if you get up to those lofty heights whereby you're a household name to the point that everyone's heard of you, that can only be facilitated by the forces that control these industries.
	You don't get to stumble your way in randomly to that kind of position.
	So it happens either by virtue of the bloodlines that you come out of, because family bloodlines are very key to this whole story.
	Different generations of certain important families are given roles in society where they can have great influence over large numbers of people.
	So it could be in the world of politics, it could be in the world of law or finance or big business, but equally it could be in the world of entertainment when you think about the huge numbers of people that a successful rock musician or a Hollywood actor can actually have.
	Now, that amount of influence and sway over that number of people is never something that the controllers of organised society would leave to chance.
	They want their own occupying those kind of positions.
	The chosen ones.
	Right.
	Have you ever thought about it?
	I was thinking about this this morning.
	The Osmond Brothers.
	Matt Osmond from Suede.
	How come Richard Osmond has got this extraordinary cultural reach, first as a, you know, on Pointless, as the higher, as the nice guy you can totally trust.
	He's everywhere.
	And Matt Osmond, the bass player from Suede.
	Isn't that quite unusual that they come from the same Well, quite possibly.
	I don't know a whole lot about that group.
	That's one I've not taken a deep dive into.
	Well, tell me about some of the ones you know about.
	I mean, oh, come on, we've got to do the Beatles thing, haven't we?
	Well, we have really.
	We have.
	I mean, because up until really very recently, so probably until the last year, I thought the Beatles, they came from Liverpool.
	I think that bit's true, isn't it?
	As far as we know.
	They cut their teeth in Hamburg and learned the art of being rock and rollers, and they wore leather jackets.
	And so they were quite proficient musicians by the time they came back to the Cavern Club, to their residency.
	And then they were taken to a new level by George Martin's production.
	Now that seems to be on the basis of a very plausible career development, just ordinary lads.
	What's the truth behind that?
	Well, it's very difficult to know.
	There's a common suspicion that the Beatles may have come from Freemasonic families.
	Mike Williams, a.k.a.
	Sage of Quay, has done a lot of digging into this aspect of the Beatles, and he's of the view that they're an entirely manufactured band, that they were put together as effectively a boy band by Brian Epstein, and that they had connections to the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations in London, which is a social engineering think tank that controls culture.
	It specialises in shaping and moulding public perceptions and values and belief systems.
	And they control aspects of popular culture, such as music.
	And so the Beatles are said to have been one such product.
	They're supposed to have had connections to the Frankfurt School in Germany as well, which is where cultural Marxism was perfected.
	And then you have the Rolling Stones, which is the other side of that dialectic, if you like.
	So the Beatles were put out there as these nice, pleasant lads who wrote these nice, catchy love songs that your mother would like.
	Whereas the Rolling Stones were portrayed more as ruffians, a bit edgy, a bit dangerous, you know.
	And they were like a more...
	Subversive version of the Beatles.
	But the truth of the matter, I suspect, is that both groups were controlled by the same forces.
	So it doesn't matter which one you preferred, which side you came down on, you're ultimately having the same value systems and the same ideas portrayed through.
	If you were the powers that be, the sinister controllers of the world, what would the message you'd be using the Beatles and the Stones to promote?
	Well they're both promoted drugs.
	So the Rolling Stones very openly, you know, Keith Richards and Mick Jagger were busted in quite a high profile.
	Yeah, the Marianne Faithfull one, who breaks a butterfly up on a wheel.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Marianne Faithfull is from an interesting bloodline, incidentally.
	The Masoch bloodline, out of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.
	And that's where we get the term Sado-Masochism.
	Okay.
	That's where Marianne Faithfull comes from.
	And she's got military connections as well.
	You know, her dad, Major Glyn Faithfull, was quite a high-ranking military officer.
	So it's yet another example of what Dave McGowan was talking about, in terms of all these musicians coming from these important families with connections to the military.
	But the Rolling Stones were pushing drugs, the Beatles in their latter period were pushing drugs as well.
	So they underwent a very noticeable change, beginning round about 1966.
	So prior to that it was all songs like She Loves You, I Wanna Hold Your Hand, Innocent.
	Pleasant songs.
	Then in 1966 they started to get wildly creative and experimental with the likes of Tomorrow Never Knows.
	Then in 1967 you get Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and Magical Mystery Tour.
	And it's all happening at the hands of George Martin, their master producer.
	So he completely changed their sound and brought in these grand orchestras and all these different layers of production.
	So the Beatles became a studio band after 1966 and stopped touring.
	This ties into the Paul McCartney death rumours, which I'm sure we'll get into.
	But the Beatles, by that point, were starting to push LSD.
	And this was in line with the influx of psychedelia and the counterculture in terms of the way that was playing out in Britain.
	So, over in America you had LSD everywhere, occurring very frequently at the hands of the CIA, it turns out, who were putting this stuff into the music festivals and the hippie communes and such.
	And over in Britain in those times, you had the swinging London scene.
	Which kicked off around about 66, Carnaby Street, Twiggy, David Bailey, all that stuff.
	And the emergence of Pink Floyd, the early incarnations of Pink Floyd.
	And the Beatles were very much a part of those cultural changes.
	And all of this would have been occurring at the hands of social engineers, because that sort of thing doesn't happen without their input.
	They have their fingerprints all over it.
	So the Beatles started pushing LSD.
	Paul McCartney did quite a famous interview where he admitted to doing LSD.
	And this, of course, is sweeping up all the fans that have been with the Beatles since day one and followed their every move.
	When they hear one of their idols advocating for doing these mind-altering drugs, they're going to want to give it a go themselves.
	And that was always the agenda.
	And they do write a song called Lizzie in the Sky with Diamonds.
	Which, hello?
	Was it accident?
	Exactly.
	They sort of denied it.
	Yeah, the cover story was that John Lennon's young son Julian came home from school one day and he'd drawn a picture of this girl floating through the sky and he said, oh that's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.
	And it just happened to have the initials LSD.
	But it's just a coincidence and nothing to worry about.
	Exactly.
	And of course in America That's right, they were CIA assets.
	Jan Irvin has done a lot of good work in this area.
	Gnostic Media, as he used to call his company, I think he calls it Logos Media now, and Joseph Atwill.
	They've really delved into the Grateful Dead.
	They've shown connections to the CIA, connections to the Bohemian Club, which runs Bohemian Grove, connections to the Century Club in New York, connections to Freemasonry, And the thing about The Grateful Dead is they were obviously pushing those counterculture values and it was subverting the whole hippie flower power dream and making sure that entire narrative was being controlled and didn't go off in unwanted directions.
	But the fans of The Grateful Dead used to be referred to as dead hippies.
	It's not an entirely flattering term and it speaks to the morbid mockery of the fans of these genres that the Controllers have.
	They see fans of those kind of groups as deadheads.
	They see us, the masses, as useless eaters.
	They use these terms for us and sometimes people walk right into them.
	So Grateful Dead fans would proudly proclaim, "I'm a deadhead!" The thing I can't quite work out, because we're dealing with psychopaths here, But, call them the Kabar or whatever, are they doing this stuff?
	Are they messing with us because they just enjoy the shits and giggles of tormenting us?
	Or are they trying to achieve something more than that?
	Why did they introduce drugs on a mass scale?
	Well I think to a very large extent they do like to morbidly mock our profanity as they see it.
	So they like to taunt us and they like to subvert our value systems in whatever ways they can.
	There will also be kind of occult supernatural aspects to it as well.
	A lot of what they do is ritualistic in nature.
	a lot of these stage shows that we get.
	In recent years you've had examples like the US Super Bowl Halftime Show and the Grammys and the MTV VMAs and these shows are absolutely replete with dark occult imagery and they're flashing that into the subconscious minds of the general public and enabling an energetic connection to be going on between what's portrayed on the stage and those that are soaking up and absorbing all of this symbolism.
	But this has been going on forever as well, and more simplistic versions of those events include things like the Rolling Stones at Altamont in 1969, a very infamous concert of theirs, where a member of the audience, an 18-year-old lad by the name of Meredith Hunter, was stabbed to death by Hell's Angels who were doing That went well at that event, and the band were performing while this was taking place, and three other people died at that event as well.
	We've had different variations on this.
	A more recent example would be the Travis Scott concert, Astroworld, of just a few weeks ago in Houston, Texas, where several members of the audience are said to have been trampled or crushed, according to some accounts.
	It appears to have been an energy harvesting death ritual.
	Yeah, I think from time to time they like to do these It's all part of their sick twisted belief system.
	They are psychopaths as you pointed out They're also Satanists Lucifer Ian's their practitioners of dark occult ritual magic and sorcery Basically, do you think that there was this?
	Is there a kind of 19th century equivalent to this or 18th century?
	Because these people have been around a long time, despising us and manipulating us in various nefarious ways.
	But before rock and roll, do you think I mean, I can't imagine musical was a way of... I don't know.
	Well, you know, this class that we're talking about has been around forever.
	Yeah.
	And as I mentioned, a lot of it comes through these family bloodlines, different generations of it.
	Yeah.
	You can trace them back several generations.
	So prior to rock and roll and the modern music era, they would have to have been having an effect through classical music.
	I would have thought.
	But I can't... I mean Bach, for example.
	Bach seems...
	Seems godly to me.
	Well, you probably know a whole lot more about classical music than I do.
	I've not taken a deep dive down the classical music rabbit hole, so I can't claim to be any kind of authority on it.
	But I know that a great many of the prominent classical composers would have been Freemasons.
	Mozart, Beethoven, you know, I think many of these were acknowledged Freemasons.
	So there you've got a connection into that secret society fraternity network.
	And that's all about oaths of allegiance, the keeping of secrets.
	You know, keeping knowledge away from the profane masses and within the confines only of the chosen few who are deemed worthy of having that knowledge.
	So that would have been happening back in those days and if classical music was the prominent vehicle of the times to be having an effect on the public, large numbers of people, I can only imagine that various ways would have been found of, you know, using it for those means.
	I have come across the use of the tritone which is uh... this period between notes that's supposed to be three period between uh...
	Notes in a composition are said to be three whole tones apart and it's said to have a very discordant effect on the listener.
	It was known as the Devil's Interval back in previous eras.
	Right!
	And it was banned by the Catholic Church because of the effect that it seemingly had on people that were on the receiving end of it.
	It's supposed to be so dissonant and so discordant in terms of this difference between the notes and in terms of what the mind is expecting to hear next That it completely throws you off track and it plays havoc with your consciousness and with your bodily well-being.
	So that's the tritone, and I know that had some applications in aspects of classical music.
	Right.
	I imagine the tritone's still used fairly regularly.
	Well, it's bound to be modern.
	The music of the last decade.
	It's really gone to shit, hasn't it?
	Look, I was a music critic for about 25 years, and I watched new genres coming in like drum and bass.
	So it's not like I'm averse to developments in music, but I just listen to the stuff now, and I'm like one of those stereotypical dad who says, turn that racket.
	It's awful in so many different ways.
	Yeah.
	I sound like me own dad now.
	I say to my kids, turn that garbage off, and I can hear my dad 30 years ago.
	Except when he was saying it, the music wasn't garbage.
	But it is now.
	Maybe it was garbage, maybe it was a show.
	Would have considered the music I grew up listening to as garbage in the same way that I consider the music my daughters listen to as garbage.
	There is going to be a generational thing there because music is created for certain generations and it pits one generation against the value systems of The older generation.
	But yeah, who can really deny that music in the last 20 years and certainly 10 years has gone completely down the shitter?
	Yeah.
	It's straight garbage.
	And it's garbage by design.
	It's not that music makers have got lazy.
	It's not that they've run out of decent songs to write.
	It's not that creative abilities are lacking.
	It's all done systematically.
	It's by design.
	It's been made to be garbage because it's fulfilling certain agendas.
	The stuff now that passes for so-called hip-hop, this is probably the best example we have in terms of a genre.
	Because I listen to rap and hip-hop, I played it on the radio, I played it in clubs in the 90s.
	And you compare what was around in that decade.
	I mean, we mentioned Dr. Dre earlier.
	You can just take something like Dr. Dre's chronic album, or the stuff he did with Snoop Dogg.
	Compare that to what is being pitched out there as so-called hip-hop now.
	They're just galaxies apart.
	It's unrecognisable.
	And what is it?
	Is it the lack of decent hooks?
	Is it lyrically poor?
	What's the...
	Well, it's all of it.
	It's lyrically poor, because you've got this genre called mumble rap now, where you can't even make out what they're bloody saying.
	And even when you can, it's nothing meaningful.
	It's just completely debased, garbage lyrics.
	But it's more than that, because we've had the advent of this dastardly, demonic invention called autotune.
	Which is where the so-called rapper or singer's voice is plugged into this software that makes him sound like a robot.
	And this is all by design.
	It's all tying into the idea of transhumanism.
	Artificial intelligence, the reliance on technology, the fusing of humanity with technological, artificial ways of doing things.
	So there's been a slow drip preparation for this period.
	Through popular music in terms of so many artists in the hip-hop genre having auto-tune applied to their voice.
	It's even creeping into reggae music now as well.
	And then you've got the sound frequencies that are going into the productions which are straight satanic, you know.
	There's a lot of truth to the idea that sound frequencies can be used to cause great harm and do great damage like the tritone that I mentioned earlier.
	Sound can be used for different purposes.
	It depends on the will and the intent and the consciousness that's being applied to it.
	So sound, energy, can be used for healing.
	It can have incredibly beneficial Applications.
	But the opposite has to be true because we live in a world of duality and polarities so it could also be used for great harm and that is indeed what's happening.
	So a lot of these baselines that are going in now to so-called hip-hop just make me feel panicky.
	I feel like I've got to get out of the room.
	Whenever I'm exposed to it I just can't stand to listen to it.
	I can't hit the off button quick enough.
	There was a record by Kate Bush, you mentioned her earlier, called Experiment 4.
	Came out in 1986.
	And that whole record, that whole song, was about the weaponisation of sound at a government, military grade level.
	And she's talking in the song about this secret experiment to use sound frequencies to cause great harm to people.
	And she says, we knew only in principle what we were doing.
	So in other words, they're messing about, they don't quite understand what they're harnessing.
	And in the video to the song, The scientists in this research institute end up conjuring up a demon.
	Through Vess about himself.
	Really?
	This demonic entity rampages through the lab and it kills all the scientists.
	a song about that.
	And I would suggest that she came from the kind of family background and moved in the kind of circles where she would know damn well that this stuff is real. - So what do you know about her family background then? - Well, I've tried to delve into it.
	I know that her dad was a doctor, but you find very little information about what kind of doctor he was online.
	So you don't even know if he was a GP or if he specialised in-- - A concentration camp doctor.
	Well, I suspect mind control.
	Right, okay.
	I suspect that he specialised in mind control programming.
	That's just my personal opinion.
	There is some weird vibe you get from those albums with her brothers as well.
	There's such a... Yeah.
	Yeah.
	You've got one of her brothers, James Carter Bush.
	And I was looking at this this morning actually.
	there's some photographs of a young Kate in her pre-fame years.
	And he brought out a photo composite album a few years ago consisting of family pictures of young Kate.
	And in so many of these early pictures, he's right there behind her, like keeping a watchful eye and presiding over everything.
	So some people feel that he could have been a handler from a very early age in her life and that she was being groomed for a career in popular music from a very young age.
	She's said to have taught herself piano at the age of 11, and she's said to have written over 100 songs by the age of 13.
	And then she's said to have been discovered by Dave Gilmour of Pink Floyd, who got her recording time at EMI Studios in London, the famous studios that the Beatles recorded at, With Jeff Emmerich, the engineer who presided over many of the people's recordings, handling her recordings.
	Which is a bit of a lucky break for an unknown teen, isn't it?
	To go from obscurity to those kind of connections.
	Do you want to check the time?
	Okay, well we're good for the moment.
	Yes, because here's the thing I don't understand, and maybe it's hard to know exactly, how does it work?
	Because, look, all the music that we love, that we're talking about, Bowie, Kate, I love Kate Bush's albums, you know, The Sensual World, the one with Army Dreamers on it, Never Forever, I love those.
	It's great music, no denying that.
	Just fantastic.
	These people are just manufactured.
	It goes against one's instincts that these are genuine artistic talents who've, through sheer brilliance, have flowered and bloomed and we get them on our records.
	I can't work out the mechanism, the stage in the process when they go to the dark side.
	A lot of them are lifetime actors.
	This is a concept I came across in the course of my research.
	Lifetime actor is a term that was coined by Joseph Atwell, who I mentioned earlier, the author and researcher.
	And it refers to somebody that's put out there in the public eye as a musician, as a politician, as an actor, somebody that's going to become famous.
	And they're thought of in that way.
	But the truth of why they're there, fulfilling that role, comes from The family bloodlines that they emerge from, or the affiliations that they have.
	So they're tapped for success early on.
	Lifetime actors get to attend the very best schools, the very best foundations.
	So they go to RADA, they go to the BRIT School, which is where so many musicians get their training.
	So, when money is no object, you can buy the very best training.
	You can become the very best musician, the very best singer-songwriter, the very best actor, so that when you're ready to embark on your career path, you've got all those skills and all that experience intact.
	A lot of them do have genuine talent, certainly.
	You know, Kate Bush, a wildly creative individual, nobody can deny this.
	A lot of these bands that were manufactured, or that I suspect were manufactured, were great musicians.
	I love the Beatles' music, their songs are fantastic.
	I love the Doors' music.
	We know that Jim Morrison of the Doors came from a very suspect background, with his father being the admiral that was involved in the Colt McTonkin incident.
	But the Doors still made great songs, as far as I'm concerned.
	Pink Floyd the same way.
	So they have great musical talent and that's the reason why they've become so successful, because the public laps them up.
	But in terms of why they've been placed there in the first place and how they gain that exposure to the public, those are the important questions.
	Yeah.
	For example, our babysitter when the kids were younger was Florence Welsh.
	and the Machine.
	Oh, wow, okay.
	And Florence used to come around to her house and used to love my record collection, you know, because I had a huge CD collection.
	And I asked her, you know, how are you getting on at school?
	What are you doing now?
	Are you doing your GCSEs, doing your ear levels and stuff?
	She never talked about music, hardly ever, but then her dad, I think, or somebody tipped me off that she'd been doing some really good early stuff.
	And I listened to her first, her first, the one about the kiss, I forget now, but I could see that she was going to do well.
	Um...
	But what I don't understand is at what point, so she's demonstrated early talent, you think she might have been a lifetime actor?
	Well, I'm not saying everyone in the industry is a lifetime actor.
	Many of them are.
	I certainly feel that many bands and many artists come up in the game in an organic, grassroots fashion.
	So they do write a few songs, score a few gigs, but there comes a point where they get spotted by Those in the industry are on the lookout for fresh talent and if they feel that this band or this artist fulfills certain criteria they might then make them an offer and say you sign this contract with us and we'll elevate your career into the stratosphere.
	And some say no at that point.
	I've got a friend who in the 90s was part of a boy band and they were evidently on the right path towards major success and they had a meeting with a major record label and a very prominent manager in the industry and they were offered this deal whereby they would be rich and famous but it came at a very heavy price and it fell outside of the sexual preferences of my friend.
	Okay.
	So at that point they said no you're alright and they walked out the door And that was it.
	I think Michael Obonisio tells a similar story of when he was offered success.
	I think it was in the comedy game he was talking about.
	And he was invited to move a few rungs up the ladder, but it came with a similar kind of cost.
	I think he said he was led The guy in question said, I'm going to show you something in the next room, but you must swear on your life that you will not divulge what you're about to see to anyone.
	And Michael said, actually, I don't think I will.
	Walked out the door, that was the end of it.
	Lucky escape.
	So, obviously, the bare minimum is you have to sleep with fat, sleazy executives, is that...?
	Er, or conduct certain favours for them.
	Sexual favors.
	Right, okay.
	And how much of the satanic stuff do you think they're introduced to at that stage?
	Well, at that stage, I think not too much.
	I think that comes further in the game.
	I think a lot of these groups sign that contract because they're so gassed up, they're so, you know, excited about the idea of becoming famous and earning all that money and having yachts and mansions that they're only too quick to sign the contract.
	But once they have it becomes apparent what it is they've signed up for and sometime down the line they'll get exposed to the satanic nature of the industry and they'll come to realise that it is run by dark occultists who adhere to ritualistic practices and belief systems and such.
	And it's the same in Hollywood, it's the same in the world of television from what I hear.
	Yes.
	You know, a very interesting thing is that I've been able to discern all this stuff from my research.
	I've kind of always skirted around the periphery of the music industry, so I've never really been part of the furniture.
	I wasn't signed to any record label.
	I didn't really work for any major corporations.
	And I think it's so much easier to research an industry when you've not been part of the nuts and bolts mechanism of it.
	So a few years ago, I did a talk at the Glastonbury Symposium, and I was exposing the music industry and talking about these different aspects of it.
	And once I'd finished, the organiser came up to me and said, do you know who was in the audience for your talk?
	I was like, no, who's that?
	He said Van Morrison.
	He came in the back and sat there with his glasses and hat on and then he slinked off at the end of the talk.
	Some years later I caught up with Van Morrison.
	I had a phone chat with him last year because I wanted to applaud him for the stance that he's taken to the convid nonsense and being one of so few household names to stick his head above the parapet and provide any kind of resistance or alternative take on what we've been asked to believe.
	So I had a chat with him.
	And, you know, we talked about him attending my talk.
	And at the time, he seemed very shocked and very surprised at some of the things that I was revealing about the satanic nature of the industry.
	And I was thinking, how can someone who's been four or five decades in the industry have not seen this?
	How can he not know about this?
	And I think sometimes you can be so close to something that you don't see it.
	You have so much invested in that industry and your part in it that you don't see some elephants in the room that other people might see that have no dog in the race.
	You're just observing from an outside perspective.
	I think it's easier for me to pick up on these things than somebody that maybe has worked within the industry machine.
	And that's what's made my work so interesting.
	I also think it would have been so much more difficult for me to be doing this work if I had become part of the industry furniture, so if I had been affiliated to one of the major corporations.
	I was listening to Mark Passio recently doing an interview with Sean McCann, a good friend of mine.
	You familiar with the work of Marc Passio?
	I think I saw a video where he showed that all the modern pop hits are based on the same three chords.
	Was that him?
	I think that's probably someone else.
	Mark Passio is a former dark occultist.
	He used to be a part of the Church of Satan and he's now come out.
	He said he had an attack of conscience and now he spends his life teaching natural law principles and the mechanisms of the universe, consequentialism, cause and effect, human consciousness.
	He's devoting his time now to uplifting and enlightening humanity.
	He's turned his back on all the dark stuff.
	But he said that during his time in the Church of Satan, he only achieved a relatively low level within that organisation.
	And so when he decided he wanted to leave and have no part in it, the Overlords were only too happy to let him go.
	They made no attempt whatsoever to stop him.
	And he told them, I'm going to expose what I found in this Because you'll spend the rest of your life bashing your head against a brick wall because people will never believe you.
	But they didn't try to stop him, this is the important point.
	And he said in this interview that I heard, that if he'd moved a few more rungs up the ladder to become a high priest, or to go above that, and then he'd try to leave.
	They wouldn't have let him leave.
	Right.
	So, there are levels to this.
	And if you know where the bodies are buried, to coin a term, they won't let you go and communicate that stuff, because you might take the rest of them down with you.
	But if you're very low level, they'll let you spend the rest of your days talking about this stuff.
	And I was relatively low level in the industry, which is why I've pretty much got a free pass to be talking about all this stuff.
	And it's very fortunate, because if I'd moved a few more rungs up the ladder, I wouldn't have been allowed to be doing all this.
	Yeah, what's your theory on that The Altium Childs video where he's showing everyone, you know, all the kind of Freemasonic, satanic symbols that you find in Madonna concerts and Lady Gaga especially concerts.
	And every rock star seems to have a pose for these.
	They do.
	Which would lead more to believe they get initiated quite early in their careers.
	Yeah, well, there comes a point in their success where they're instructed to start employing all this symbolism In many photo shoots they'll be told by the photographer to put your hand over your eye like this, make this symbol, do this sign.
	A lot of them won't understand what they're doing.
	Those that have directed the photo shoot or have commissioned it will know what it's all about.
	And it's a little calling card.
	It's letting those with the eyes to see know who controls these industries and it's letting them see that this particular artist has now been inducted and it's part of the... Even if they haven't been inducted in fact because they're just doing what the...
	So they're now a completely manipulated act.
	That's what it's communicating.
	And in decades past, nobody would have understood what these signs and symbols mean.
	So a band doing a photo shoot in the 80s, where it's all this, you know, they would have no clue what they're doing.
	And the record-buying public that picked up their record sleeve in HMV or whatever and took it home with them would have no idea why the bank doing those poses either.
	It's only in recent times, with the advent of the internet and the ability to do the kind of research that we now can, That we can now gain a comprehension of what all that stuff means.
	So we know it's connected to Freemasonry.
	We know it's secret society, mystery school symbolism.
	We know that it's all about oaths of allegiance and keeping of secrets.
	It's all about their satanic, morbid mockery of the profane masses.
	We know all this now.
	The cat is out the bag.
	Have you seen that photograph of Jimmy Stewart?
	The young Jimmy Stewart?
	What's he doing?
	Doesn't surprise me.
	But it's extraordinary because you think of Jimmy Stewart.
	He got a DFC.
	He was a war hero.
	It's a wonderful life.
	He was a war hero.
	He was in "It's a Wonderful Life".
	It's, you know, how could he be?
	But. - Oh, well, Hollywood actors.
	It's no different to musicians.
	You know, McGowan in his book showed how all these prominent 60s musicians had connections into the world of the military through their fathers.
	But it was no different in Hollywood.
	You could look at all the Hollywood actors at the time.
	And there's just connections for days into the military, military intelligence, Ivy League universities, aspects of the government, the Defence Department, the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI.
	It just goes on forever.
	Do you think that Johnny Cash's late career is explicable in terms of regret?
	You see that with some artists, that they want to renounce their satanic past and find an accommodation with God.
	Yeah.
	And you really see that, I think, with songs like the Hurt video.
	Yeah, Johnny Cash did that Nine Inch Nails song.
	Yes, Hurt.
	He does seem to be full of regret.
	It comes across as a man facing his mortal demise and having great regrets over some of the deals he's made in his life.
	The Bob Dylan interview that he did with Ed Bradley where he talks about having made a deal with the Chief Commander, as he calls it.
	And then Ed Bradley says, the chief commander of this world, and he says, of this world and of the world we can't see.
	So he's talking about making a deal with the devil.
	It's the Faustian bargain, this concept that comes up time and time again in entertainment.
	And I think we've seen an aspect of an artist of advanced years considering his own mortality and regretting what it is he's been a part of in recent times with Eric Clapton.
	Yes.
	So Eric Clapton has made some public comments expressing his deep regret over having taken the... do we mention it?
	Do we mention the word?
	Oh what?
	Well yeah, go on, say it.
	What the sheep farm lads call the armspit.
	The armspit, yeah.
	The triple dark fish.
	So Eric did this documentary with Oracle Films Where he's going into his experience at the hands of the armspear and he's saying that he was sort of coerced into taking it by his doctor because he's of a certain age and there's been this pressure in society to go out and get one of these armspears.
	It's the responsible thing to do, don't you know?
	So Eric went out and did that and then he fell very ill.
	He had some very adverse reactions to it.
	Including not being able to feel his hands.
	His hands went numb and he feared that he would never play guitar again.
	So he's very open about this in this film.
	He did a song with Van Morrison called Stand and Deliver where he's criticising the outrages of these lockdowns that have been introduced.
	I'm just criticising the entire official stance on the C word.
	And he's done another song along those lines as well.
	And Eric is coming across to me as a man who is trying to atone for some of the things that he's done in his past career.
	Because there's a few episodes in his career such as his young son Connor fell to his death from a window in a skyscraper.
	Often these celebrities, be they rock stars or actors, lose siblings or children.
	What's that about?
	Well, many researchers feel that in exchange for engineered success in a certain career line, The participants are required to give up their first-born children as a sacrifice, as a blood sacrifice.
	I go into this in my Musical Truth Volume 1 book in quite some detail, in terms of how the idea of blood sacrifices in exchange for fame and fortune play out.
	And I've given many, many examples of what appears to be this dynamic.
	But one thing that was interesting to me, researching this, is that it's not just in the world of music that we get this.
	You get it in the world of politics as well.
	And there were three successive British Prime Ministers.
	Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron.
	And they all lost their first born children.
	In the case of Blair and Cameron, I think it was a first born son.
	And with Gordon Brown it was a daughter.
	But I find that quite interesting.
	What are the odds of that happening, mathematically, to three successive British Prime Ministers?
	You know, that's great misfortune.
	And one incident of that would be tragic enough.
	But it happens with three successive PMs.
	It's quite interesting because this is a kind of satanic inversion of something you see a lot in the Bible.
	You get injunctions, I think, to What is it in Proverbs?
	Honour the Lord with thy substance and with the firstfruits of... I can't remember how it goes, but there is a tradition, isn't there, in the Bible of... Your firstborn is God's, but you don't have to sacrifice him.
	But in Satan's case, you do... I think...
	For me, my understanding of everything you say has been deepened by realising that the devil is not an imaginary thing.
	He's real.
	And black magic does enable you to get the trappings of this world.
	Get sex, drugs, rock and roll, and above all, power.
	It's real.
	So you can see why when these people Sell their souls at the crossroads.
	They do in return get their side of the deal, which is that they get worldly success.
	Yeah.
	They get dragged off to hell at the end of it.
	And they're quite open about it.
	Many of them, you know, they express regret.
	Kanye West had a line in one of his freestyles where he said, I made a deal with the devil.
	It was a crappy deal.
	At least it came with a few toys, like a happy meal.
	And it's not just first-born children that many of these artists seem to lose.
	Often it can be family members like mothers.
	And in Kanye West's case, it was very close to his mother, Donda.
	And she died very unexpectedly.
	She went in for some cosmetic surgery and she died on the surgeon's table.
	And that's what prompted Kanye to make his album, 808s and Heartbreak.
	Which I like and you don't!
	He also split with his fiancée of the time, Alexis Pfeiffer, and he's said to have gone to a very dark place as a result of these two events and he did some soul searching and that's what caused him to come out with 808s and Heartbreak, which to me is a very dark and disturbing album and is full of auto-tune.
	It is full of auto-tune, you're right, you're right.
	I was thinking when you were just getting back to the auto-tune thing, I suppose Kraftwerk have a lot to answer for.
	Because they were the beginning of us embracing our inner computer, weren't they, our inner... Yeah, they were the pioneers of transhumanism in music, really.
	And they inspired so many other artists through the use of synthesizers.
	But they were pushing the sort of imagery we're getting now.
	Through artificial intelligence.
	Back in the 1970s, they were forerunners of all of that.
	They inspired Daft Punk, who have kind of carried that on.
	And you can think of many of these synth acts that came out.
	Jean-Michel Jarre, even.
	And Gary Neumann.
	Emerson Blake and Palmer messed about with synths.
	Gary Neumann.
	And then all these new romantic synth-pop bands of the 80s.
	It all stemmed from Kraftwerk and when they do interviews they all pay tribute to Kraftwerk for sparking that interest.
	And have you looked into the Kraftwerk background?
	I need to do more on Kraftwerk.
	I think you do.
	I was thinking also Nick Cave's son died tragically.
	- I was thinking also, Nick Cave's son died tragically. - Yeah. - And Nick Cave's quite an interesting case 'cause you listen to his music, his lyrics, steeped in the language of the Old Testament and sort of read right hand, which is always appearing in the Bible in one another.
	- Right. - Right.
	But I'm presuming there aren't any, well Christian rock doesn't do very well does it?
	No, and I'm wondering where all the Christian rock artists have been these last couple of years.
	Because we've had, or we're living through, the biggest attempted genocide and population reduction in the history of humanity.
	If ever there were a time that the voice of musicians and artists of all creative pursuits was needed.
	Isn't it?
	So my questions include, where are all the punk rockers that are supposed to be at the establishment?
	Where's all the acid house ravers from back in the day that were partying illegally and sticking it to the establishment?
	Where are they?
	Because they claim to be against these values.
	Where's all the rebellious rock artists?
	Who are supposed to stand for moral value systems and to oppose evil and presumably tyranny and things of this nature.
	So where are all of these musicians?
	What's the point of having a public profile and having a following in the millions if you're not going to use it at a time when it's needed more than any other?
	Yeah.
	I can't speak for the DJs, but I can speak for the people who are off their faces on pills in fields, because I was one of them.
	And I reckon we've actually been better than most.
	I mean, the kids have been absolute crap, the 20-somethings.
	But I think Generation Rave, quite a lot of the people I meet on the marches in London are of an age, of a... So I don't know, maybe all there's built into it... Well that's good, that's good.
	I'm obviously not bumping into them myself.
	I'm not seeing many old faces from the rave scene standing up for what's right in these times.
	I can imagine many of them have hit middle age and they've maybe got some concerns for their health.
	Maybe their mental health isn't as great as it could be as a result of what they used to get up to back in the day.
	But yeah if there's a few of them out there that's a good thing because what I'm observing around me is people of my kind of age, Generation X, Going along with this whole thing.
	And as I've said in a few protest rally speeches that I've done in recent times, we are the generation that's going to have to turn this shit around because nobody else is going to do it.
	So that responsibility falls on our shoulders collectively.
	We have to be up to the job.
	We have to.
	Because the future of humanity and our children and our grandchildren, their welfare depends on the decisions that we make and the behaviours that we employ in these times.
	There are no white hats.
	President Trump is not going to come and save us with his surprise election turnaround victory.
	He's not.
	We can't rely on Reina Fulmik or Michael Obinicio.
	You know, much as I wish them every success in their cases, we can't rely on them sorting this out.
	Collectively, we all have to play a role in that.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And we have to learn to accept that All our musical heroes have feet of clay at best.
	I was thinking, we mentioned Johnny Cash and Eric Clapton actually kind of showing late career repentance and Bowie kind of went the other way.
	Are you a fan of Bowie?
	Used to be, yeah.
	His Black Star album was essentially saying, look, I've made my bed, now I'm going to lie in it.
	And it was a kind of Luciferian, straight satanic album, wasn't it?
	It didn't try and sort of make his peace with God or anything like that.
	No, it was putting the lid on a career that had been stooped in dark occult symbolism and the pushing of agendas.
	Thinking back to his very early days of Siggy Stardust and the glam rock era, pushing androgyny, that's what it was, the blurring of agendas.
	And it was one of so many agendas that we've seen pushed through music over the years.
	He played his role in that.
	I loved his music.
	I thought he was a creative genius in the same way that Kate Bush is.
	The Black Star album was very dark, as you say, and it had all the overtones of a man preparing for his own journey into the next world and accepting that his mortal life had come to an end.
	But whether it did or not kind of remains in doubt because a lot of people feel that David Bowie may not have died At the time we were told that he did, in January 2016.
	That really was an unfortunate year for musicians, wasn't it?
	Because you had David Bowie in January, George Michael turns up dead in bed on Christmas Day of 2016, you had Prince, died in April of that year, and so many other musicians.
	Yeah!
	But when it comes to David Bowie, a lot of people feel that... Do you remember that Sky News interview, have you seen that?
	Where they wheeled out that guy Jack Stephen?
	Not the one where we're talking about the internet, a different one.
	Yeah, this was a Sky News bulletin on the day after we're told David Bowie has died.
	And they bring out this guy by the name of Jack Stephen and he's said to have been a music industry executive that Bowie used to work with back in the 70s.
	And he's given his tribute to Bowie and he's saying, it's as if a little part of me died when I heard the news.
	Now the interesting thing about Jack Stephen is first of all there's virtually Nothing about him on the internet.
	There's one other video that I've been able to find and in this video he looks completely different to how he does in the Sky News Bulletin.
	The striking thing about him in the Sky News Bulletin is he looks just like David Bowie.
	He looks like you can imagine Bowie to have looked if he's undergone a bit of a makeover, combed his hair down, removed his contact lens or had his dodgy eye fixed, you know.
	He looks very very similar to Bowie and he sounds like Bowie.
	So some people feel that Bowie's death may have been in some way faked and may have been a hoax.
	And I feel this does go on with certain musicians.
	I can't boldly make the claim that it always goes on and every time we're told a famous music maker has died it's some kind of hoax.
	But I feel in certain instances that has been the case.
	I don't believe Jim Morrison died in a bathtub in Paris in 1971 at the age of 27, as we're told he did.
	I don't believe that Elvis Presley died on the bog at the age of 42 in 1977.
	Because Elvis had connections into the CIA and aspects of military intelligence.
	And I have my doubts over whether David Bowie really exited this reality when we're told he did.
	Right.
	Do you think... Okay, so in the case of Jim Morrison, do you think it's... If your theory's correct, have they just had enough of being a rock star and they want to... Yeah, they've either had enough or their role is simply complete.
	Jim's role would have been providing some ostensible opposition to the Vietnam War and to what his father's generation represented, the value system they represented, by apparently being anti-establishment and embracing the counterculture values of that era.
	And maybe that was a role that was only needed for a few years.
	Because Jim Morrison was an actor.
	There's footage you can get of him on YouTube where he's doing a commercial for a university in Florida in 1964.
	He's got his college blazer on and his school books and he looks a world away from how he was presented to the world as this iconic rock god in the doors with his long hair and with his shirt off and stuff.
	This was Jim Morrison the actor.
	He'd been given that role and I believe he was given the role of being a rock god And that role probably lasted for just a few years and then it wasn't needed anymore because the goals had been fulfilled.
	And I think what may happen, I can't prove any of this, it's a theory, but what may happen is that these artists are allowed to be inducted into some sort of witness protection programme type scenario where they're given a new identity and they can live out the rest of their years outside of the spotlight of fame.
	And maybe that's what happened to Bowie.
	Right.
	Maybe.
	That's really interesting.
	Has knowing all this stuff kind of ruined music for you?
	No, I get asked this question a lot and it doesn't ruin the music for me because for me, a great song is always a great song.
	It doesn't matter who may have written it, it doesn't matter what agenda it was designed to fulfil.
	If it's a great song and it sounds fantastic, Then it sounds fantastic.
	So I can still enjoy the music of The Beatles, even though I don't believe they're the group we thought they were.
	I can still listen to the music of The Doors and enjoy it, even though I know a bit about where they came from.
	So, it's not ruined the enjoyment for me.
	And we do need music in our lives.
	I think that's one of the reasons why the music industry has been chosen as a vehicle for mind control and social manipulation.
	Because it's recognised that so many people love music.
	Well, everyone does, don't they?
	Everyone loves music of some kind.
	You might not be into rock or indie or hip-hop.
	Maybe you're into classical or opera.
	Or country.
	Everyone's into something.
	So it's rife for manipulation because it's something we naturally gravitate towards.
	I think we have something inherent within our DNA as part of this human experience that orients us towards music, musical pursuits.
	Do you think that there are some artists who profess Christianity as a kind of Yeah, as a deception.
	For example, Beyoncé.
	I think it was Beyoncé.
	I'm sure I remember Fraser Nelson, the Spectator Editor, writing a piece.
	He was a massive fan of Beyoncé and he talked about her Christian message.
	Well, if Beyoncé's a real Christian, I'm Vladimir Putin.
	Are you?
	No, you're not.
	Are you?
	Oh, I see what you did there.
	I met Beyoncé once.
	Just when Destiny's Child had first been launched.
	It was 1998, she was 16.
	And I sat this close to her on the sofa.
	Which is never going to happen again.
	Probably wouldn't want it to.
	I'd be worried for my soul.
	But I think what happened with Beyonce was when I met her back in those days, Destiny's Child innocent they were just getting inducted into the industry and there came a point in beyonce's career where she you know went over to the dark side as a condition of her fame or possibly due to the family that she came out of because her father matthew knowles had a very controlling influence
	on her career very similar to joe jackson with michael jackson a very overbearing fall about britney spire's dad yeah same way and the conservatorship yeah which smacks of mind control yeah mk alter and monarch exactly exactly but um yeah your question about christian artists the most fake christian artist of all christian artist yeah there's got to be cliff richard right so cliff i mean - Okay.
	When Cliff Richard first came out in 1958 with Move It, he was modelling himself on Elvis Presley.
	He was like the British Elvis.
	He was gyrating his hips and he was all sex and sex appeal and trying to win the chicks over and all this kind of thing.
	And then in the 1960s, He goes into his Austin Powers makeover and professes to be a Christian and starts making Christian music.
	So who really believes that that was a genuine conversion on his part?
	Versus a career direction that was dictated by those that managed and controlled it.
	Yes.
	Right Cliff, next thing for you is we're going to make you appeal to an entirely new demographic.
	You're going after the Christian market.
	So we want you to look like this, make songs saying this, say this in interviews.
	Do we really believe Cliff Richards a Christian?
	Do we?
	Look, we know that the Devil has all the best tunes.
	Is the whole industry essentially, almost by definition, satanic?
	Yes.
	Yes, it was set up with those values entirely in place.
	You'll be telling me next that Jimmy Page was into Satanism.
	Yeah, that's really unlikely, isn't it?
	Yeah, come on!
	Well, Jimmy Page was into Alistair Crowley big time.
	Didn't he buy Boleskine House?
	Yeah, he did.
	Crowley's gaff on the shores of Loch Ness in Scotland, a scene of many a ritual and séance and paranormal experience.
	Jimmy Page bought that house in 1971 and sold it in 1991.
	Such was his obsession with the works of Aleister Crowley and Page was into occult practices.
	That crops up on many Led Zeppelin sleeves.
	He also bought a bookstore in London dealing with arcane literature from the occult.
	So were the four signs, Zoffo, whatever it was, Zosso, were they satanic?
	Let's have four.
	Four signs, four symbols.
	Well, it's bound to have some occult significance here when you see these signs and symbols and sigils cropping up on album sleeves.
	Even down to Duran Duran, there came a point in their career where they started employing all this symbolism.
	Right.
	So, it's just letting you know that they're all part of the same systems.
	So I would say the industry overall is deeply satanic.
	Certainly when you reach certain levels of it.
	That's not to say that every band out there and every artist out there is a part of this and knowingly participating in it.
	I think there are many acts that are there to populate the music industry.
	You know, to have an industry you have to have lots of bands, lots of acts.
	And so a lot of them are there just to fill the space.
	And to keep the cogs of the industry machine turning.
	So I think a lot of bands won't be overtly satanic and they won't be knowingly participating in these things.
	But they're just there to keep things ticking along.
	A horrible thought has just come to my head.
	Ed Sheeran.
	That is a horrible thought.
	He's got to be Satan's servant.
	Yeah, he's got to have sold his soul.
	To a very large degree, in order to have this level of success, because he's bloody everywhere.
	He is.
	He's the prominent artist of these times, which is a horrifying thought.
	Because when people look back on the music of the 2010s and the 2020s, in decades to come, if we're all still here, Ed Sheeran's going to be held up as the most prominent name of these times.
	I wanted to know that Satan ruled the world.
	The success of Ed Sheeran would be it.
	I went to see the first big-ish, when he was on a big stage, Ed Sheeran.
	He was playing at Latitude.
	And I think my daughter dragged me along to see, or the kids dragged me along to see him because they'd heard he was the coming thing.
	And I thought, he's a very personable young man.
	Well, I couldn't see what his eyes looked like.
	And he had a good rapport with the audience, tremendous sort of confidence given that it was just him and an acoustic guitar.
	And I thought, he's never going to get really big because acoustic guitar music of this kind doesn't really translate to big stages.
	Well, I couldn't be more wrong there, but I'll tell you who he reminded me of.
	Before he became famous, I went to interview Jamie Oliver.
	Jamie Oliver, he was still cooking at the River Cafe, and he'd just written this cookbook, and he'd been given this TV series, which hadn't been shown yet, and the word was he was going to be huge.
	And I really got the same vibes from Jamie Oliver as I did from seeing that Ed Sheeran one.
	And I'm wondering whether...
	Because I think Jamie Oliver is another...
	This doesn't just work for pop, does it?
	It doesn't just work for acting either.
	It also works for the TV industry.
	Jamie Oliver is definitely one of those, what do you call them?
	Lifetime actors.
	You just said it there.
	He had these vibes that he was going to be the next big thing.
	So was that left to random chance and coincidence or had it been decided that he was going to be the next big thing?
	I can remember when Lady Gaga Launched on the scene.
	I remember that.
	It was the most mysterious launch of any.
	She was a complete nobody.
	Nobody heard of her.
	But she was talked of like, that's right, it's Lady Gaga.
	She's so huge.
	And the phrase I kept hearing was, she's going to be the next big thing.
	Well, if the general public choose whose records they want to buy, how could it have been known ahead of time that she'd be the next big thing?
	Surely it could have gone either way.
	Yeah.
	But if it's already been decided that she's going to be the next big thing, because these things aren't left up to the general public to say who they like, they have their heroes served up on a plate to them, then of course it can be known.
	And then we find out that Lady Gaga just happens to be a cousin of Madonna.
	Who just happens to be a cousin of Celine Dion.
	Right!
	to be a cousin of Ellen DeGeneres.
	They're all related.
	And then when you tie it together into the more expanded family tree, they're all related to George Bush, who is related to Barack Obama, who is a cousin of Dick Cheney, his own vice president, who were descended from Abraham Lincoln.
	They're all related.
	Right.
	So now you know where Lady Gaga came from.
	And it was never left to chance as to whether she was going to be famous She was tapped for it because of the family that she came from.
	Interesting.
	Again, it's the satanic inversion because the Bible, I mean, particularly the Old Testament, is nothing but bloodlines.
	It's obsessed.
	I mean, you get whole chapters of son of so-and-so and son of so-and-so.
	Again, so-and-so.
	Yeah, whether they're the tribe of Benjamin or the tribe of stuff.
	And it's the same with the... Bloodlines are the key.
	Yeah.
	It's all about the bloodlines.
	What hope is there for those of us who aren't at that level?
	Us plebs.
	Yeah, I mean imagine, you and I might have thought, fancied our chances of becoming rock stars and we might have practised our guitars and we'd never have had a chance, would we?
	No, but...
	I'm proud of what my parents and grandparents did.
	My grandad used to repair bicycles.
	My dad was a motor mechanic.
	My other grandad was a docker.
	This is great because this is what regular people do.
	It doesn't come from privileged family bloodlines.
	We wouldn't be saving the world, would we, if our father had been the captain of the destroyer, the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
	That's right, that's right.
	Of our innate humanity and the fact that we're authentic human beings with an authentic organic experience rather than having our lives shaped and moulded for us.
	You and I did another interview where we were talking about Boris Johnson and David Cameron and people of this ilk and how they effectively have their lives mapped out for them because it's decided what they're going to be.
	It's decided what route they're going to go down.
	Whereas with the likes of us and the majority of people watching this, we get to decide.
	We get to make those choices as to what we want to do with our lives.
	And I can't think of anything worse than having everything mapped out for you and being expected to carry on the family tradition and go in a certain direction and have no choice in that matter.
	No, although the perks are quite good.
	Being an incredibly famous rock star or being a... Well, they are, but the price to pay is quite heavy, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	Now, I've got to ask you a very important question, and this is going to be a clue to my question.
	See if you can work it out.
	Okay.
	You're going to ask me about Paul McCartney, aren't you?
	Funnily enough, yeah.
	Is he Paul?
	What do you want to ask?
	Is he alive?
	No, I want the 101, because I really don't even know what the theory is.
	Paul is dead.
	The original Paul McCartney got replaced by a fake Paul McCartney who was called Billy Shears.
	So in a nutshell, the conspiracy theory is that the original biological Paul McCartney died in 1966.
	According to most accounts, it was in a car crash.
	According to most accounts, it was on 9-11-66.
	So opinions differ as to whether that's September the 11th or November the 9th.
	But either way, it's supposed to be 9-11-66.
	The evidence that's often put forward for it comes in the form of a book titled The Memoirs of Billy Shears, which purports to be the autobiography of the individual who's been playing the public role of Paul McCartney since 1966.
	According to many researchers, the original McCartney was gotten rid of as part of some satanic occult ritual, and the individual that's replaced him was originally called William Shepard or William Campbell in some versions known colloquially as Billy Shears so when you have on the Sgt Pepper album the lyric may I introduce to you the one and only Billy Shears it's supposed to be them unveiling to the world the replacement McCartney
	So many researchers feel this is a very real thing.
	Notably Mike Williams, Sage of Quay, who's done multiple shows on this and really taken a deep dive into the research.
	My own stance on it tends to change every time I bring out a new book.
	Not to sell the book, but just because I've come to look at things in a different way.
	So in the first book I was documenting this Paul is Dead conspiracy theory And looking at all the symbolism that is supposed to point to McCartney having been replaced.
	And there are so many examples.
	The bare feet on the Abbey Road album.
	Yeah, the Sgt Pepper album is full of clues.
	It's been in record sleeves, it's been in music videos.
	There are many Paul McCartney music videos where there's more than one Paul that appear.
	Pipes of Peace, Spice Like Us, Wonderful Christmas Time, which is supposed to be clues as to the fact there's been more than one Paul.
	My stance on it now is that, yes, there has been more than one Paul McCartney.
	So there's been more than one individual that has been served up to us as Paul McCartney.
	And it's quite obvious to me, looking at the photographs, looking at the video footage, that it's different individuals.
	But does that necessarily mean That Paul McCartney died in 1966?
	Well, it doesn't.
	It could well be that the McCartney we have today is the original biological Paul, but at some point in the timeline, for whatever reason, they inserted a different McCartney in.
	So we're looking at different people.
	So we know they use doubles of famous people.
	Doubles of world leaders and politicians are used all the time.
	And so it's not too much of a stretch to assume they could have been doing that in the music world as well.
	More than one.
	Any other famous artist?
	Yes.
	Maybe they got the one Paul McCartney to do the really shit, embarrassing stuff.
	Like crap Paul McCartney wrote Obladi.
	He wrote the Frog Chorus.
	Wonderful Christmas Time.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Ebony and Ivory.
	Crap Paul had his work cut out.
	He also wrote the Liverpool Oratorio.
	And then you had good Paul who wrote what?
	Yeah.
	Hey Jude.
	Yeah.
	Lady Madonna.
	Yesterday, yeah.
	It is a very deep and complex subject and I wonder whether the individual that most people think is biological, Paul, looking back to the 1960s.
	So, often times, Paul McCartney had a fatter, rounder face when you would see him.
	He was shorter than the other Paul.
	The Paul that we had at the time of Sergeant Pepper, who did that interview about LSD, was taller and had a longer, thinner face.
	And to me, he's an entirely different individual to the other one.
	And people seem to think that the taller Paul with the longer, thinner face is the imposter.
	But what if that's the real Paul?
	And what if the one with the rounder, chubbier face is the one that they inserted in for a time to be the double?
	So I wonder if it's that way round and if people may have got it twisted.
	Because there's evidence to prop up all of these arguments.
	You can find it if you're looking for it.
	I wonder who's...
	The daughters must know who their dad is.
	Well, everyone must know that Simba can't be secret.
	How do they keep this stuff secret?
	Well, you get the same question about how the perpetrators of 9-11 were able to keep it secret.
	People say, oh, if that was a conspiracy, somebody would have blabbed.
	It's a capitalisation of information, isn't it?
	A need-to-know basis.
	And then when you get into the realms of the music industry, populated by the likes of Paul McCartney, you're getting into freemasonry.
	You're getting into secret societies and the keeping of oaths.
	Swearing of oaths, where you swear not to divulge secrets upon pain of death, apparently.
	So that would be a pretty good incentive for somebody keeping their mouth shut.
	And when it comes to the McCartney situation, Heather Mills, Paul's second wife, made some very interesting comments in a couple of TV interviews in 2007.
	One of them was for TVAN in Britain and the other one was for Access Hollywood in America.
	Where she said words to the effect of, she's discovered a devastating secret about somebody she's very close to.
	Somebody she thought she could trust.
	And she said, she looks to the camera, and she seems to be addressing this person, and she says, keep me safe, because I have a box of evidence that's lodged with somebody, and if anything happens to me, this is all going to come out.
	And she says she feels deeply betrayed, and she's not talking about infidelity.
	So, what could that mean?
	That is consistent with her discovering that she's not actually married to the man she thought she was.
	She thought she'd married Paul McCartney, she's married somebody else.
	It is consistent with that, but it's also consistent with her discovering something else devastating about it.
	But either way, she made those comments in 2007 and, I don't know, is it just me or has Heather Mills not been on telly much lately?
	She hasn't!
	I haven't heard anything from her from that day to this.
	Heather is dead.
	Or not.
	Well she runs a vegan cafe in Brighton.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Well she was the one who turned, who was the one who stopped, it was Heather wasn't it, who stopped Paul smoking dope?
	Apparently so, yeah.
	But maybe she picked the wrong Paul.
	Could have been.
	Now, before we go, you can reassure me at least that the dance music industry is exempt from all this.
	There's nothing satanic, is there, about the invention of dance music or the way it's used?
	Well, it depends which aspects of it you're looking at.
	So, So my personal favourite genre of music within dance is soulful house, soulful uplifting house.
	So that's what I play now.
	A lot of it's inspired by gospel music actually.
	A lot of it comes out of gospel traditions and it's very euphoric, uplifting, beautiful music that really puts you on a high.
	And to my thinking, That genre has remained untouched by the hidden hand.
	It's still pure.
	There aren't many other aspects of dance music that I can say that about, sadly.
	Trance kind of speaks for itself.
	It's all in the name.
	Yes, my favourite.
	And then you've got happy hardcore and techno and these different styles of dance music.
	A lot of these are very intrinsically linked to drugs, to the drugs of choice.
	They're best enjoyed when you're on a high.
	The music is created with that in mind, with a dance floor full of people tripping their tits off in mind.
	And I think a lot of that has kind of gone down a pretty dark route in terms of basslines, productions, sound frequencies, same way as hip-hop has gone.
	And then I've got a few questions about the whole Acid House rave scene, how organic that was afterwards.
	Well, actually tell me, because that was my...
	Well, I grew up, I was made to feel terrible by old punks that I hadn't been there when punk was born, because it was like the most amazing thing.
	And you'd also meet people who'd been there in the late 60s, and if you hadn't seen the 60s, you know, the drugs were so much better.
	But the one youth trend I was very much part of was the birth of the acid house scene.
	I didn't go to Shum, but I went to Enter the Dragon, and I went to Love at the Wag.
	And I did actually have a smiley T-shirt.
	I did have a red bandana.
	So I was there.
	And the story we were told was that the DJs went out to Ibiza, and they sampled the Balearic Bells on there, and they played Detestimony by the Finney Tribe, and they gradually mutated into Danny Rampling, and they were really...
	Danny Rampling's one of us.
	He is.
	I've become good friends with Danny Rampling in the last couple of years.
	You know, in Musical Truth Volume 2 I asked a few questions about the Acid House rave scene.
	It was like, did we actually witness a reboot of the 1960s counterculture for a new generation?
	Yes!
	Only this time you had ecstasy instead of LSD, you had electronic dance music instead of psychedelic rock, and you had these raves instead of these hippie festivals.
	It was just repeated 21 years later.
	It was even called the Second Summer of Love after the first one.
	And all the visuals and all the flyers were very... A lot of the icons were from the 60s.
	Yes.
	So the official story is that these four DJs went out to Ibiza, it was Rambling, it was Oak & Fold, it was Johnny Walker and Nicky Holloway.
	And they supposedly had this amazing experience at Amnesia, dancing under the stars, doing this wonderful new drug and bringing all that culture back to Britain.
	Started their own clubs.
	And, as I say, I've become quite good friends with Danny Rampling.
	I did a show with him a few months ago.
	I bump into him at a lot of the London protests.
	He's always out there on the front line.
	He is one of us, as you say.
	And, you know, Danny's take is that that whole thing was very organic, grassroots.
	And, after all, he was there and I wasn't.
	So I am an outsider.
	And I'm not going to contradict anything that he's got to say.
	Because, to me, he seems like a very sincere individual.
	Got to know him quite well.
	Seems like a beautiful soul to me.
	Yeah.
	But, you were about to tell me you've got reservations about the organic.
	I've got reservations about the sea.
	So, I certainly feel it was steered off in certain desired directions.
	And it led to the birth of the Super Club scene.
	So after the Warehouse Parties and the Acid House Raves in Fields, they eventually got outlawed.
	You know, the Criminal Justice Bill, the Castle Mortman event and all this.
	And it was all to pave the way for the birth of the Super Clubs.
	Ministry of Sound, Gatecrasher, Cream, these sort of clubs, where everything was pushed indoors.
	On to licensed premises on controlled terms.
	So you didn't have maverick promoters in a field with 10,000 ravers.
	Now, it was all in a club that had to have a license and be monitored and all this kind of thing.
	And I just think it was a way of controlling everything and introducing the music and just steering youth culture off in a certain desired direction.
	It's very interesting you say that.
	There's an experience I had which Very, very vivid.
	It must have made a real impact on me to be so memorable.
	I'd been to various clubs and had a good time and then for the first time I went to the Ministry of Sound and it had been going for a while and I did not like it at all.
	And I remember seeing Jamie Palumbo, who ran the ministry, owned the ministry of Samothing, created it.
	He's a Baron now.
	Is he?
	Baron of Southwark.
	And he was standing on the balcony and he was surveying the clubbers and he was looking at us like we were useless eaters.
	The contempt!
	I've rarely seen such a manifestation of evil as I saw In his, the vibes he was giving off, you know how occasionally you catch a whiff of Brimstone?
	And there, I saw evil.
	I just thought, I thought it was a very dark, ugly place, the Ministry of Sound.
	Not good, at all.
	Well he was a very unlikely candidate to start the nightclub.
	You know, coming from the aristocracy.
	You'd imagine him becoming a banker or a lawyer or something like that, not running a seedy club in Elephant and Castle, you know, hanging out at three o'clock in the morning with drug-taking plebs.
	And then you've got the name of the club, Ministry, with those governmental establishment overtones, Ministry of Sound.
	Sounds like something out of George Orwell's 1984, doesn't it?
	Totally.
	And completely, again, the peace and love vibe of the Ibiza scene.
	So, to sort of extend your theory, they took this rather beautiful thing and they turned it, used it for their own ends.
	Well, that's what they do, isn't it?
	I mean, with the 60s counterculture, I think the very germ of all of that was probably a very noble thing.
	It was young people of the time that were opposed to war, they were opposed to colonialism and all these establishment values, and they wanted to create something new.
	Yeah.
	And they wanted it to be steeped in the ideals of peace and love.
	Yeah.
	And the establishment can't have that.
	They can't have peace and love flourishing because they stand for the very opposite of those values.
	And when they see a scene about to evolve of that nature, they have to get their own people in there to steer it off in desired directions and stop it from flourishing organically.
	Yeah.
	Well, because, I mean, the ecstasy scene was having an extraordinary effect on the football terraces, for example.
	I mean, I used to meet There's another question.
	Where's all the bloody football hooligans in this whole thing?
	I would have smashed your face in, mate, if you...
	And now you're hugging him.
	Yeah, you're hugging him, yeah.
	There's another question.
	Where's all the bloody football hooligans in this whole thing?
	Football hooligans that like a bit of a fight and they like to oppose things.
	They've been a bit silent in all this, haven't they?
	Football has been co-opted though.
	- Same way. - What's the club that Karen Brady managed where she's kicked out all the plebs and just got, you know.
	- I don't follow.
	- No, I don't either.
	Although I love Matt this year.
	- Oh yeah, yeah.
	It's someone I've got time for.
	- Yeah, he's just a hero.
	Isn't it, yeah, by way of rounding this off, I've totally loved talking to you and I'm so glad that it's finally come around 'cause I've been yearning for this. - We shouldn't leave it so long next time.
	No, no, exactly.
	It's definitely time for a rematch.
	But it's so weird that people who've emerged as heroes of this, who would have imagined that Wright said Fred would be the I know.
	Bastions of shit.
	Gillian McKeith.
	Gillian McKeith.
	What about Gillian McKeith?
	The poo lady.
	The poo lady.
	Becomes a bloody hero, an activist.
	Exactly.
	It's incredible.
	And it's people that shouldn't have to be doing this.
	It shouldn't be Right Said Fred that step up to be activists.
	It should be, you know, punk musicians and bloody dance music producers, drum and bass artists, rappers, you know.
	Yeah.
	Where is tricky in all this?
	Where's Yeah, exactly.
	Although apparently Kid Rock has done something good recently.
	Apparently.
	I've not heard of him.
	Oh no, I wasn't a fan.
	I don't even know what genre he does, but he's sort of rap slash rock, but I'm not really following.
	I think he's done a good ditty recently, which is On Our Side.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	We'll take all we can get.
	Yeah, well, exactly.
	I mean, can you imagine somebody of the ilk of Mick Jagger or Elton John or Paul McCartney Standing up in the midst of all this madness and speaking out about it.
	Wow.
	And opposing what's been going on.
	I mean, I know it will never happen.
	I'm not deluding myself to think that somebody's going to step forward of that ilk.
	But just imagine, you know, Sir Paul McCartney steps forward and says, Convid is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on humanity.
	Yeah.
	The three dark finish is killing people.
	Be a game changer.
	There goes the agenda.
	The agenda's destroyed overnight.
	Never to be resurrected again.
	Such would be the power of somebody of that nature.
	But the three names you've named, I mean, you might as well have named Lady Gaga and Madonna.
	I know, I know.
	It's what we know.
	I'm just illustrating the point.
	At least one of those is a catamite of the cabal.
	That's never going to happen.
	They are totally... So because it's never going to happen, we have to take the Matt Noticios and the Julian McKeiths and the Right Said Freds Yeah.
	Don't bother saying Ian Brown.
	We'll take who we can get.
	Yeah, I'll have Ian Brown, definitely.
	I wish he'd come on the pod.
	He prefers to be... He doesn't do interviews, does he?
	No, he doesn't.
	He's quite... He's quite... Trixie, I think.
	I think he might be quite... He might not be as relaxed as you.
	A bit spiky.
	A bit spiky, yeah, yeah.
	Could be, yeah.
	We'll never know.
	No, we'll never know.
	We'll never know.
	Anyway, I've really enjoyed it.
	And I, oh yes, there's the camera.
	May I remind you, dearest, dearest viewer, listener, I really do appreciate your support.
	I've been told by somebody the other day that I'm absolutely rubbish at doing this and that I really ought to make the point that without your support I am nothing.
	I can't do this stuff so I really appreciate it.
	if you can support me on Subscribestar and I'm moving to locals shortly I'm planning to build up a Dellingpod community and I hope you'll join me there if you're not on Subscribestar tell me about your projects and what you'd like to plug them up Well, I just pulled out my newest book, Musical Truth Volume 3, which is the end of the trilogy of my Musical Truth books.
	And that's really me exposing everything I've come to research myself about the true nature of the music industry.
	This particular book is very current and very topical 'cause it talks about Convid and it talks about how that ties into the pushing of agendas and how music makers play their part in all of that.
	So that's out now, it's on Amazon, but if anyone wants to get a copy from me personally, they can drop me an email, markdevlinguk@gmail.com and I can mail that out.
	Other than that, I'm incredibly busy right now.
	I've got speaking engagements at conferences coming up, I get to these Freedom Rallies, I like to represent at those, I've got interviews and podcasts coming up, I've got my regular videos, so there's a lot going on.
	So, on my YouTube, which is Mark Devlin TV, all my stuff resides there, and at DJMarkDevlin.com, my main website, You can find out everything else from that particular place.
	Brilliant, well until next time Rob, thank you.
	Thanks for getting me on then.

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