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Oct. 23, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:47:59

Whitney Webb

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	I love Danny Paul!
	Welcome to the show.
	Welcome to the show with me, James Dellingpole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I totally am.
	I mean, look who it is.
	Whitney Webb, you are one of my most demanded podcast guests.
	In fact, I've got this I've got this Telegram account where this channel chat group where I have the people I call my I call them my sharklings.
	And I abuse them and tell them interesting things.
	And quite a few sharklings have been saying, oh, when are you going to get Whitney Webb on the show?
	And I, well, they're going to be, all their Christmases are going to come early.
	Here I am.
	There you are.
	All right.
	Whitney, are you actually in Chile or is your actual location a mystery?
	No, I live in Chile, yeah.
	I was in the UK for about six months earlier this year and then I ended up coming back.
	Okay, and how did you find, well okay, first of all, how did you find it in the UK?
	When did you leave the UK?
	At the end of August.
	Okay, so you still had it when it was... I get the feeling we're living in a sort of a phony war scenario now where people have been deluded into thinking it's all going to get back to normal and everything's going to be fine and I think that this is what it's all about.
	Right, and they did that here in Chile also.
	They seem to sort of have these, I guess, stages, you could maybe call it, where they make it look like it's going back to normalcy after they have said so much, oh, you have to do this and that in order to go back to normal.
	They have to make it look like there is a march back to normalcy, and then there's a clampdown.
	And before, you know, before the current one that we seem to be going into, it was, you know, the variants and all of that, but now they seem to have this, the narrative, and it's been like this for several months.
	I mean, in the UK, I think this narrative first emerged around June or May is the supply chain crunch.
	And now, you know, there's the whole energy crisis phenomena that's related to that, but they were talking about the signaling list months ago, right?
	And so they're just, I think what they're trying to essentially do to the public, not just in the UK or in Chile, or it's really a global thing.
	for most countries is to sort of have people waffle between highs and lows, I guess you could call it, to keep everything off balance, as it were, but also have enough people in the general public sort of lulled into complacency during those low periods, I guess you could say.
	And I think a lot of people in the mainstream media, the kind of people who might have opposed this stuff if they admitted what was going on, it's given them permission in a way to carry on with this impression, sort of purveying the impression that it's all okay, there's nothing weird happening here.
	And I get increasingly irritated by that.
	You haven't really had the experience.
	Yeah, I am as well.
	It's hard not to.
	You know, like in the UK, for example, though, I think that may be falling apart to some extent.
	You know, like you had in Wales the vote to implement vaccine passports being passed because of a Zoom error more recently, the coronavirus emergency powers.
	Act in the UK was extended for six months in a vote that was obviously a sham and they were like laughing about it.
	It's a very ludicrous video to watch for those that haven't seen how that actual vote took place because it wasn't really even a vote in the justification even with the official numbers coming out of Public Health England that most people in the hospitals dying.
	are actually people that have had, you know, at least one, most of them, two doses of the vaccine.
	I mean, the narrative that people have been fed and what's being done is falling apart there to a greater extent, but I think that's why they've pivoted away from COVID and they're moving into the supply change crunch that they're going to, while they're already doing it, they're sort of tying it into the whole climate change narrative, which is, of course, very convenient for the UK, which is trying to position itself
	As a net zero leader, now that it's hosting a COP26 here in a couple weeks and is now in the midst of the big green investor summit for building a global Britain and all of this.
	So I think they knew that they had to get away from COVID to an extent, and I fully expect that this whole supply chain energy crisis is going to be woven into climate change, but I think they'll try and push people to A different kind of desperation than we saw in the earlier bits of 2020 to sort of get that to stick.
	Because if the current calm, I guess you could say, persists for most of the general public, that's not a narrative that I think will stick for most people.
	Yeah.
	Well, later on I'm going to ask you whether you've got any messages of hope or optimism of any kind.
	Spoiler alert, have you?
	I mean, yeah, well, I think there's I think there's ways to deal with it.
	And I haven't really changed in my opinion about that since, you know, last year, really.
	But I don't know how much you want me to get into that today.
	We can talk about that a bit later on.
	There's so many things that we could talk about, special things.
	I do want to talk to you about these new NACs, this new asset class that you wrote about the other day, which is another sinister development in the global takeover.
	But first of all, can you just, for anyone who hasn't come across you, or I doubt there are any normies watching this, I think they've all abandoned me, all the normies, but just in case there are people who aren't really wise to what's going on, who still think it's all going to be okay, can you just give me a quick overview of what is going on in the last, what has been happening in the last 18 months and the bigger picture?
	Okay, well there's a lot of... that's a very broad question.
	There's a lot of ways to answer that.
	No, it's fine.
	I would say that basically what we're seeing, you know, we're seeing this pivot from COVID to climate change, but I think ultimately the quote-unquote solutions to both are going to remain consistent, and that speaks to the overall broader picture of why this has been happening the past year and a half or so, why it's going to continue to happen, even if the justification fed to the public to justify these measures may shift.
	As it is now from COVID to climate change, the quote-unquote solutions are going to be the same.
	And ultimately, what those quote-unquote solutions are is this push to digitalize every sector of the economy.
	Part of this push that is generally called the fourth industrial revolution.
	But ties into a lot of other things, including global governance, a new baking system.
	And things of that nature, but all of that essentially runs on a very different type of infrastructure that did not exist before COVID-19, but was being actively planned and talked about by a lot of the, I guess you could say, movers and shakers of the elite that have, you know, we've seen some of their faces more prominently.
	Bill Gates being an obvious one that I think a lot of people are probably familiar with, but there's a lot more.
	But, you know, this was also being gamed out, at least in the U.S., mostly by sort of this conglomeration of Silicon Valley oligarchs and the military and intelligence communities in 2019 that were basically framing this to the national security community of the U.S.
	of this need to digitalize Or we will lose to China.
	We will lose market and economic hegemony to China if we don't implement digital IDs, increased biometric surveillance, self-driving cars, and all of these other technologies that sort of fall under this fourth industrial revolution umbrella.
	But what they actually also say...
	said in their own documents is we can, you know, we have to do this to beat China.
	We have to, you know, become them to beat them.
	Or we can, you know, build this authoritarian techno-fascist hellscape together.
	How great!
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yes, that's a good point.
	Let me pause you there, because you raised something which I've noticed in the last few years.
	I used to be an avid consumer of the newspapers and stuff, and I used to be, I used to believe this stuff.
	And I, some of the stories, which I now, I now look at and go, well, why do they expect us to believe that?
	You know, for example, the number of stories telling me that eating insects are the new thing, it's going to be the new normal, and it's something we should welcome.
	And get excited about.
	And you saw even on the features pages of newspapers, people going to a sort of an insect restaurant to try out these crazy things.
	And it was marketed as something fun that we could all learn to enjoy.
	Or 5G.
	No one has ever, ever shown me a reason why any normal person would want 5G.
	And yet the number of stories we're told, we read saying that, you know, a growing economy needs this new technology for blah, blah, for reasons.
	It's never explained.
	Central bank digital currencies.
	We had a chancellor, Rishi Sunak, he made a video the other day saying, and this is going to make your money like really extra safe.
	Nobody, nobody's looking at their £10 notes and thinking, I wish there were a digital currency to replace this.
	I mean, but they take us for fools.
	And actually, we are fools mostly for believing this stuff.
	Yeah, well, you know, there's a lot of different things to talk about that you just brought up.
	But, you know, in terms of central bank digital currencies, I recently did a podcast on this.
	I heard it, it's good.
	Basically, the sales pitch is essentially that it's digital money.
	And as I understand it, the Rishi Sunak video attempted to perpetuate that myth.
	But if you look at people like the The head of the Bank of International Settlements, Agustin Carsons.
	The really fat guy.
	He basically says, yeah, he's, yeah, it's kind of funny here.
	Here in Chile, I was trying to explain this to someone and I was like, he's really enormous.
	And, you know, you don't really realize how enormous he is until you actually watch his video or see a picture of him.
	He's definitely the central banker, central banker.
	If you wanted to, you know, I sort of see him as a Batman villain type guy but basically in this one video that was clipped by the Solari report, Catherine Austin Fitz and John Titus, I think John Titus was the one that clipped the video.
	He essentially says this is about control and central bank digital currencies is going to give them the technology to enforce new levels of control over people's finances and also financial surveillance that had previously not been possible for central bankers and central planners, essentially.
	That's really not digital money.
	There's a broader agenda here.
	The digital ID, the digitalization infrastructure I alluded to earlier, all of that essentially runs off of what they are marketing now as a vaccine passport.
	But the way that infrastructure is set up is to be a digital biometric ID tied to your Medical records and vaccination history, but eventually it'll be all your medical records and also your finances, your central bank digital currency wallet.
	And it makes it quite easy for the state to essentially deperson you by cutting access through that centralized digital ID system, cutting off your access to being able to participate in the economy or receive health care.
	or really even receive government services really exist at all in society.
	And that's really where this is going.
	Yeah.
	So CBDCs, if they get away with it, if they introduce them, if this becomes our only medium of exchange and the only thing we're paid in, it will be game over for all our freedoms, everything, everything.
	It'll be worse than life in the most totalitarian regime there's ever been, because they'll be able to decide How you spend your money, whether you can spend it near, you know, within 10 miles of your home or further away, whether you're allowed to buy pizza and cigarettes or whether you've been a naughty boy or girl and you can't do that.
	Everything.
	They'll control everything.
	This is known.
	People like you are making podcasts about this.
	People like me are making podcasts about this.
	The information is out there.
	And yet, if you go into the mainstream media, for example, if you look at the Daily Telegraph, you know, sort of supposedly a conservative broadsheet newspaper, you go to their business section and you read an article on CBDCs, and in vain do you look for any criticism of this.
	It's just like, ooh, the Bank of England has announced this.
	The Chancellor's announced this new thing.
	We are sleepwalking, are we not, into absolute disaster.
	Why is nobody talking about this stuff?
	Um, so why no one's talking about it in mainstream media I think more often than not has to do with the problems that have been evident in mainstream media for quite some time, a lot of which has to do with funding or concern about losing access to certain people that they want to interview.
	You know, there's a whole list of factors there that precede current events to a considerable degree that have only really been exacerbated And also, you know, the extreme, I would argue, a crisis of also self-censorship, especially in the COVID era, has sort of set in that people don't want to be forced out of their jobs if they are deemed naughty conspiracy theorists, among other things, in the current climate.
	So I think there's a host of reasons as to why it's not being covered.
	In the mainstream media, personally, I find it more complexing why more people in independent media that were very willing to challenge government or corporate or mainstream narratives prior to COVID-19, even now, seeing this stuff that doesn't have anything to do with pandemic or public health or whatever, are either completely ignoring it or tacitly supporting it in one way or another.
	Is that right?
	You're talking about people like us are failing to do their job.
	I mean, not literally you and me, obviously.
	Well, so there was, yeah, so there's a class of people, independent media content creators and media outlets that continue to act like we're living in 2019, you know, and are reporting on the same stuff they were reporting on before COVID, either completely ignoring
	A lot of the issues that we have raised that are existential crises to our various societies, they are essentially ignoring them like mainstream media is.
	And mainstream media is doing so for the reasons that these people in independent media were criticizing them for before, but they've chosen to engage in the same type of behavior.
	So I do find that kind of perplexing, more perplexing, I guess you could say.
	Yeah, well, that's a complete... As you say, it is existential.
	I mean, literally, it is existential.
	The future of our civilization, of everything that we've evolved to do over the years, I'm not sure that I believe in the kind of the liberal narrative that we've been, the progressive narrative that we've been getting more and more sophisticated and better, and we've reached the end of history.
	I think that's just complete bollocks.
	But nevertheless, You would have thought that we could agree that actually human beings are, you know, are not useless eaters.
	We're not, we don't deserve to be treated like cattle.
	We deserve, we all deserve to have a better life for our children and so on.
	And we all deserve to have our, the possibility of our dreams being fulfilled.
	And instead we seem to be going towards a very dark period and nobody's talking about it apart from a few freaks like you and me.
	Yeah, I mean, it can be disheartening.
	I think there are some people talking about it, though, beyond us, right?
	The problem is, too, that we're dealing with very unprecedented censorship and the fact that most people's media consumption has moved online and that voice is raising these issues and criticizing them.
	are pretty much entirely censored from television and print, so we only really exist online.
	And that sense in the censorship there has gotten progressively worse in the last year and a half.
	So maybe there's very reasonable people making very good reasoned arguments, but they didn't start doing that until this crazy censorship period, and how are they going to build an audience, for example, right?
	And that's why I think And talking about solutions, so much of this comes down to building local networks and not being so dependent on the online realm.
	For all of this, because ultimately the online realm is where they're seeking to entrap us all and that they're seeking to control even more.
	So some of the work that I've done recently over the course of this year, I had an article focusing, well, I'm sure you've probably heard of the cyber polygon exercise concerns about blackouts and things like that, the power grid and what have you.
	Right, so a lot of that goes back to this World Economic Forum partnership against cybercrime that includes the governments of the UK, Israel, and the United States, and also the biggest corporations of Silicon Valley, and the biggest banks in the world, essentially Wall Street banks.
	So ultimately what this boils down to And if you want the details of this, I would refer you to that rather lengthy article laying this all out.
	But essentially, it's about implementing a policy that was attempted in the U.S.
	under the Obama administration, the driver's license for the Internet.
	That's how they called it or how they referred to it.
	And it was pitched later on in places like Australia and the European Union as a driver's license for social media.
	And interesting, in the recent stabbing of the Tory MP in the UK, this was resurrected as a quote-unquote solution, having to have a government ID being connected to your social media presence.
	But this is a very long-standing agenda, and it doesn't start with social media.
	The idea is to have your internet access completely tied to the same digital ID infrastructure.
	That I briefly mentioned earlier, because then they can know exactly what websites and information you are accessing online.
	They can prevent you from accessing certain pages, and if you're naughty, they cut it off entirely.
	You don't have access to the internet.
	So that's essentially where a lot of this is going, and it will be more severe with time, but I was very interested.
	It was interesting to see that immediately pitch as the solution to that recent event in the United Kingdom, but it's something that's been developing for quite some time.
	You're impressively up to speed on UK politics.
	You're absolutely right.
	So we had this MP called Sir David Amess who was stabbed to death by an alleged Islamist extremist in his constituency.
	We're having a constituency meeting.
	And one of his mates, an MP called Marc Francois, made this what attracted a lot of attention from parliamentary correspondents as, you know, a very moving tribute to his last friends.
	And then he started talking about introducing a thing called David's Law.
	And David's Law would mean that Internet anonymity would end for all those faceless trolls who were hiding behind anonymity and using it to insult MPs.
	And you're thinking, number one, hang on a second, what does this have to do with the murder of an MP by a terrorist or whatever?
	Number one, would Ending internet anonymity have changed anything about this.
	No, it wouldn't.
	And secondly, what those of us who are aware, but are aware, realized is that this guy, Marc Francois, had been sold to us as the kind of feisty sort of the earth Brexit MP who was standing up for the little man.
	And actually, what he's really doing is shroud waving he was exploiting the death of a friend to advance an agenda that the government had been working on for ages, not just in the US in the UK but that's interesting he Well, that's interesting.
	He was painted previously as a Brexiteer, because it's quite interesting how many of those have gone on to, for lack of a better word, shill for very globalist agendas.
	Yes!
	Oh, tell me about this.
	We've been in the European Union because globalism is bad, but we'll, you know, engage in globalism on our own without the EU and be even worse, maybe.
	Yeah, it's quite obvious.
	Yeah, it's almost as though the whole Brexit thing was just a sham.
	I mean, Boris Johnson, right, was like the quintessential, I'm gonna do Brexit, blah, blah, blah.
	I'm not a globalist, blah, blah, blah.
	And he's, you know, the past couple days been meeting with Bill Gates and Larry Fink to talk about creating the global Britain.
	Well, I think Larry Fink was there, if I'm not mistaken, at this investor summit.
	He was.
	Right, yeah.
	And so Larry Fink is the head of BlackRock, which is particularly in the US side, has been intimately involved in a lot of the extreme fuckery that's gone on in the past year and a half, but on the US side specifically, but elsewhere.
	Um, as well, um, and, um, has been very, uh, instrumental and even before COVID-19 was acknowledged, um, uh, directing central bank policy towards where it is now, um, and also, um, buying up lots of assets and also in this big push for green investment, uh, which is really the ultimate grift.
	It's, uh, Totally, totally insane.
	Once you get into it, and there's a lot of different aspects to that.
	But we've also seen, you know, like in the UK, the royal family very heavily promoting that as well.
	ESG investment, the biggest influencers in ESG investment today are said to be Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.
	And of course, you also have Prince William also promoting this type of green investment that it's going to be what saves the planet.
	People that have, that believe that and are blocking roads in Britain because they think that the bankers and the royal family are going to save them all by investing a bunch of money in what ultimately amounts to a giant grift have been spectacularly had.
	It's astounding.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Have you looked into the, have you done any of your sort of deep dives into the royal family and their finances?
	Well, I haven't written about it, but you know, at one point or another, it's there They're, you know, they pop up, but I haven't really.
	Beyond my work on Epstein, right, which has to do with a lot of PMing.
	Oh, let's talk about that.
	Let's talk about that.
	Because you let slip on your recent podcast that one of the things you've done about Epstein is that you've revealed the connections with the intelligence services.
	Just go through a bit of that.
	Tell me what you found.
	Well, this is something I've been working on since 2019.
	I have an upcoming book on it, but hopefully that'll be, well, that's going to be out in the early part of next year, the exact month.
	I may have to push it back a month or so, because I am due to have a baby at the end of the year, which may, you know, but that doesn't really respect book deadlines, right?
	So, if there's an early surprise there, thank you.
	But in terms of, you know, intelligence agency connections, this is something that's very vast.
	And the reason the book in the investigation I did into Epstein for Met Press News back when I worked there in 2019 was so different is because I'm placing Epstein in context.
	So the prevailing narrative about Epstein is that He was the snotty billionaire and now he's dead.
	So everything's fine now that he's dead.
	And there was no system or network keeping him protected for decades and all of that.
	That's the prevailing narrative.
	And even Bill Gates said this on mainstream television in the U.S.
	recently.
	Well, he's dead.
	It doesn't matter.
	What they've been running with but actually Epstein is really just the the latest figure serving in that exact same role of sexual blackmail for a network that's really been in existence since the 20s and And 30s really coalescing in the 40s.
	It essentially has, it goes back to this, what was going on in New York, where the mob, the mafia was very intimately involved with New York politics, particularly with the Democratic Party, but also the Republican Party.
	And that the mob also formed this or the mafia, the National Crime Syndicate really which was a merging of the Jewish and Italian crime crime groups of the period, got in bed with the CIA, or really the OSS which is the precursor to the CIA.
	And then right retained that alliance afterwards that you have this this network of intelligence agencies illegitimate businessmen and the organized crime world and legitimate businessmen in several figures who straddle that legitimate and illegitimate world and really the currency.
	of power there more often than not is blackmail of some type.
	And a lot of it for a long time was sexual blackmail that was used to control politicians and various figures and make backdoor deals and what have you.
	And Epstein is just one figure involved in sexual blackmail that came out of this particular power nexus.
	And they evolved over the years, of course, but that's essentially where it comes from.
	So the book has to do with that.
	It doesn't focus as much on Epstein's, I guess, sexual blackmail activities, the salacious details, as much as the stuff that isn't talked about that much.
	And then I do get into a lot of his ties to And what we were talking about earlier, some of this Fourth Industrial Revolution stuff, his interest in transhumanism, science funding, academia, Silicon Valley.
	He had a lot of very considerable ties to people like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, for example.
	That doesn't really get a lot of coverage in addition to Bill Gates.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah.
	Oh yeah.
	And Ghislaine Maxwell as well.
	Because it's funny, isn't it?
	How we sort of, we try and look at which member of the cabal is on our side, and you kind of think, well, well, Elon Musk, he's kind of a, you know, he's, he's a grievy guy, he's... Well, he markets himself as that, but he's, he's there for a reason.
	I mean, you look at his companies, and they're, you know, completely supported by insane government subsidies with no justification.
	He's a made man, but made by whom?
	More people should be asking that.
	He definitely has built a brand around himself, but some of these other billionaire figures have tried to paint themselves as rogue before.
	I guess Peter Thiel sort of has done that to an extent as well.
	Do you not trust him either?
	you know, PayPal.
	No, not at all.
	Okay.
	So I can, I carry on.
	Do you want me to expand on that?
	I I do.
	I'd be happy to.
	He's definitely framed himself as like libertarian.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	But I think if you look at his history, it's quite clear that's not the case.
	You know, he created PayPal, right, with Elon Musk and whatever, and then sold it, and now it's owned by Pierre Omidyar of the eBay fortune.
	But after that, basically, and I write about this in my article called The Military Origins of Facebook, actually, and also some of my other work on Palantir and these odd connections to the CIA and the Maxwell family that pop up in there.
	Palantir was Peter Thiel's effort in connection with Bush administration neocons like Richard Perle, who was directly involved with Thiel in creating Palantir, to recreate what was going to be DARPA's
	Total Information Awareness Program as an entirely private sector entity, and of course Palantir today serves all the functions that Total Information Awareness was intended to serve in contracts to all 17 US intelligence agencies.
	In addition to numerous banks, it's very much related to sort of this, the PROMIS software scandal, which itself involved people like Robert Maxwell and what have you.
	Total Information Awareness was going to be headed by an Iran-Contra criminal.
	Iran-Contra intimately connected to PROMIS, which was this whole software thing that has a lot of similarities to what Palantir would eventually But Palantir's first client was the CIA.
	It had lots of funding from the CIA initially as well.
	And the CIA guided their product creation.
	And the CIA guy most involved with Palantir was a guy named Alan Wade, who actually made a company for Homeland Security, a Homeland Security software company employed by the US after 9-11 with Christine Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell's sister, and Robert Maxwell's daughter, who was directly involved with his front company involved in the PROMIS software espionage scandal.
	So Peter Thiel is very much you know, in this world and has profited from it.
	A Palantir, uh, markets itself, even the New York times does marketing for it in a sense by calling it the all seeing eye.
	It knows everything before you do it.
	It gives governments the ability.
	Yeah.
	Basically it gives governments the ability to label people subversive and predict their actions.
	Um, and is, is yeah, it was very Orwellian.
	And so, you know, does this sound like a libertarian to you who would willingly create a company that gives the state all sorts of insane powers?
	It doesn't to me.
	He also...
	is one of the main backers of a company called Andoril that's run by Palmer Luckey, creator of the Oculus Rift that was bought by Facebook, a company which Peter Thiel also put on the map.
	Facebook is also a revived effort to create another failed DARPA program that was called LifeLog.
	That, you know, happened at the same time Palantir was created.
	But this Anduril company is basically the AI weapons company of the U.S.
	military, making these autonomous weapons and drones for the U.S.
	military.
	And Peter Thiel is the main backer of that.
	It's not libertarian.
	In a conventional sense.
	You're treading on my dreams, Whitney.
	I was kind of hoping that somewhere out there was a white hat, a high-level white hat who was going to save this world.
	Yeah, they're not billionaires though.
	There may be white hats.
	But I think I think us in the West specifically have been trained sort of into the savior mentality.
	And I think that's been very destructive, for example, in U.S.
	politics in particular, where people say, oh, as long as we get the right person into the White House, they'll magically fix everything and all of our problems will go away and we don't have to do anything.
	And I think what the big shift that has to happen is that people have to take start taking responsibility.
	For themselves and their lives and their communities, realizing the government, no politician, no election, no vote you cast is going to come to your rescue.
	And we have been conditioned and trained ever since we're taught about the government, the system back in school, you know, to fall into these I guess tropes or whatever you want to call them and really we have to break out of that conditioning and start doing it ourselves really because, you know, they're trying to entrap us in a system of complete slavery and the only way to get out of that is to develop a parallel system.
	Yeah, you're jumping to the kind of the semi-optimistic conclusion of this podcast.
	Sorry.
	Which we'll do in a bit.
	I just want to ask you a couple of questions.
	First of all, do you think that these billionaire types start out with good intentions when they're, you know, impoverished Harvard undergraduates or whatever, and then they get corrupted?
	Or do you think that they would never have got as far as they do were they not already kind of on board with all the bad stuff?
	I think that sort of depends on the case of the particular billionaire.
	A lot of these guys came into money and sort of came into the system through their parents more often than not.
	People like Bill Gates, Peter Thiel, even Elon Musk fit that category.
	So, you know, if it's a family affair, it's unlikely they'll break out of it.
	There are sort of people that do have the impoverished beginnings and rise up, but I think they end up making deals.
	You know, sort of what I mentioned earlier with Epstein about how it's all deal making.
	I mean, that's really...
	Backdoor deals is how the real decisions are made and have been made.
	And those don't necessarily follow legal conventions.
	They aren't necessarily legal when they're hammered out behind the scenes.
	And people that develop profitable businesses and get to that level, I think, are eventually offered You know, you want to keep this, then you will, you know, you will comply, essentially.
	I mean, maybe there are exceptions.
	Even if there aren't any kind of photographs of them with kind of 12 year olds, or, but you know, they haven't taken adrenochrome, you think that somehow there's some other way which they'll get kind of ensnared, you know, like, if you want this mega deal or whatever.
	Well, one thing I hope to show in my Epstein book is that there was a shift away from sexual blackmail to electronic blackmail.
	And this was largely facilitated by Silicon Valley and things like Palantir, which is a data mining firm, essentially.
	And all of that and people posting and messaging on very controlled social media apps that have been controlled by these same networks from the beginning, like Facebook, for example.
	I mean, You know, if you've ever sent an incriminating message you don't want the public to see on Facebook Messenger, for example, well, you've put an awful lot of trust in Mark Zuckerberg, haven't you?
	So they don't necessarily need to get, you know, politicians or powerful people or, you know, people in certain positions in incriminating photographs or videos anymore.
	It's just it comes down to electronic communication because of these shifts.
	And if you look at who funded and developed Silicon Valley from the beginning, and for example, Robert Maxwell's daughter, Isabel Maxwell, her intelligence linked email infrastructure escapades, you know, these people have had access to To what you've been writing for quite a long time and they don't necessarily need to go the old route to snag you in something they think they can use to their benefit.
	I sort of get what you're saying up to a point, but surely there's an order of difference between, say, compromising photographs of people, you know, in compromising scenarios, and I don't know, something that somebody said on Facebook a few years ago.
	I mean, surely the blackmail... Well, yeah, well, there's absolutely a difference, but not everyone they want to compromise is a pedophile.
	Right?
	I mean, sure, some of them are.
	And that's where people like Epstein, you know, were useful.
	But in order to pull off what we've seen in the last year and a half, for example, not every key person that needed to be brought into line to allow that to be executed was necessarily one, right?
	So we've been, you know, 20 years plus in this electronic communications era, where all of that's been swept up by intelligence agencies, the Five Eyes, which all use Palantir.
	And some of these other softwares, right?
	So, you know, they don't necessarily need to invest in the sexual blackmail or in figures that conduct sexual blackmail like Jeffrey Epstein.
	I think that was why they were able to get rid of him because they don't really need people like him anymore.
	That's interesting.
	I just wanted to ask you an Epstein question, which has been bothering me.
	I saw the Netflix series.
	Did you see the Netflix documentary series on Epstein?
	No, I don't watch them because they're just limited hangout crap that perpetuate that same narrative.
	Some of them do give voice to the victims, but some victims like Maria Farmer, she said she was repeatedly censored This is what I was going to ask you.
	I talked to her for a long time.
	I released a three-hour interview with her, which is the first time where a lot of her testimony was actually allowed to be publicly aired out.
	Yeah, this is what I'm getting to.
	Had you watched the Netflix documentary series, and there were quite a few episodes, you'd have kind of been worn down.
	It was kind of like, he was clearly a sleazy guy.
	But you never really got the... it gave no impression of the full extent of his... he was more like he promised girls the world and then disappointed them when he lured them to his... it was like that.
	It was like a sort of...
	It's about cementing the convenient narrative about Epstein to the general public and that it was just him and that this wasn't a network of people.
	Have you noticed that it also oddly absolves Leslie Wexner, who basically bankrolled Epstein and was, you know, the main funder of his sexual blackmail operation?
	There's no mention of him at all.
	He's been caught in multiplies and not challenged by the mainstream media on it at all.
	Where does that guy's money come from?
	Who is he?
	The Limited.
	He's a retail baron, essentially, in the United States.
	I don't know how many of these stores are in the UK, but they're really ubiquitous in US malls.
	Victoria's Secret, Bath and Body Works, all of that.
	Victoria's Secret.
	Yeah, among other brands.
	The Limited also had its own stores.
	The Limited, Limited 2 for kids in the U.S.
	Abercrombie & Fitch, I believe was a brand of his as well.
	Just a massive clothing empire.
	I know all these things.
	I've come across these things.
	I've been into Abercrombie & Fitch stores for the experience of having these kind of All these hunky young model wannabes.
	Everyone's beautiful, aren't they?
	And they're selling a lifestyle.
	But Victoria's Secret, they had those famous advertising campaigns and all these models, which there was clearly something dodgy going on.
	And then presumably in order... Well, yeah.
	According to Maria Farmer, Epstein and Wexner, the main Victoria's Secret stores in New York City had cameras in the dressing rooms and they could like watch whatever woman came in to like take their tops off and stuff.
	That's not easy.
	And Epstein repeatedly promised modeling jobs to victims, not just for Victoria's Secret, though he did that as well.
	But also, you know, these different modeling agencies and all of that, a lot of people in this network had quote unquote modeling agencies.
	You know, for example, like the greatest, the peak, I guess you could say of the Epstein Trump relationship goes back to the time when Trump had a modeling agency and he was very involved with Epstein in the late 80s or most of the 1990s.
	You know, it's not really, there's a lot more going on there with than just, you know, modeling and I think Epstein, you know, made that quite clear.
	And also the fact that Jean-Luc Brunel, his main accomplice in Europe, for example, because there was a significant European leg to the old, the whole operation, including, you know, Epstein's residences in Paris, that of course have not covered at all.
	But Jean-Luc Brunel was essentially a model scout and worked in modeling for various agencies and his own agency and what have you.
	But anyway, going back to Leslie Wexner.
	Leslie Wexner is part of sort of this consortium of very powerful and also organized crime-linked real estate and retail barons.
	And a lot of them are part of this mega group, as they're called, sorry, that Leslie Wexner created with the Bronfmans in the early 1990s.
	That tend to engage in ethno-philanthropy, which is philanthropy focused on their specific ethno-religious group, which is Jewish.
	But if you look at a lot of the billionaires in the mega group roster, the vast majority have ties to the same national crime syndicate.
	Some of them are very obvious, like Michael Steinhardt, for example, and his father was Mayor Lansky's jewel fence and very much involved in the New York New York City underground, criminal underworld, and was, you know, responsible for creating his son's career on Wall Street.
	Wall Street is a key part of this, by the way.
	I did mention sort of like the earlier, the New York City Democrat mob, CIA connections, but Wall Street is very much... Are we going to get sued for this?
	All of that.
	Those various claims that you...
	I mean, I don't know.
	You presumably said this stuff before.
	Yeah, I mean, it's really all documented.
	So, you know, Wexner's own connection to organized crime was the subject of a leaked Ohio police report about the murder of his tax lawyer in 1985.
	And not long after that Epstein sort of took over Wexner's finances.
	I did a deep dive article that's in the book, but I sort of an excerpt from it on my website that people can read if they're more interested in the in the exact nitty gritty details of Wexner's organized crime connections as revealed in that police report.
	But they're considerable.
	And if you look at the people involved with the creation of his empire, Apto Limited, like Edward de Bartolo, who was tied to the Italian side of the National Crime Syndicate, another one of these real estate retail barons, his ties to organized crime are very well known.
	And he was very much involved with the Limited's activities for a long time.
	Also, the Limited's main logistics provider in the continental United States, Walsh Trucking Company, also very much tied up with the Gambino crime family, and that's a matter of public record.
	I guess they can sue me, but I can cite all of this stuff.
	It's not like I'm making it up.
	I know, but these other national crimes syndicate, do you ever worry that you're going to get offed by them?
	You're going to get hithered?
	No, they just ignore people like me now.
	You know, so like people like, you know, People that broke, like, stories like this, like, several decades ago, someone like Danny Casolaro and the Promise Software scandal, he was gonna blow all of that wide open in the early 90s.
	He died very suspiciously after Robert Maxwell, who was also involved in that, but not in exposing it and committing it, you know, died very suspiciously.
	The main U.S.
	senator involved in that scandal helping Maxwell also died suspiciously that year, and Casolaro's main source was found murdered.
	All in that year, right?
	You know, during that time, yeah, they did that sort of stuff.
	But I think in today's day and age, it's much cheaper for them to just label you a conspiracy theorist and ignore you.
	That's interesting.
	Do you have any insights into what happened to Robert Maxwell, by the way?
	Do you have any theories?
	I've just read a long book about him.
	Well, I think probably the best book I've read on his death would probably be Gordon Thomas's work on Robert Maxwell.
	The evidence tends to point towards there having been foul play.
	I don't really think the official narrative really makes very much sense.
	He was allegedly threatening some of the people that had previously been his benefactors In selling or exposing secrets of theirs in order to keep his business empire afloat, among other things.
	He had expanded it too quickly and it didn't go very well for him.
	He was trying to not only One of the things that's interesting about him is that he was so obsessed with competing with Rupert Murdoch that he, I think that may be one of the motives that he expanded to quickly, and he actually, before his death, had sent Ghislaine Maxwell to New York to sort of expand
	His presence in the United States, he was trying to expand from sort of his European base, a business base and media base over into the United States with the purchase of the New York Daily News, for example, and he was trying to get just laying
	Enmeshed in the elite social scene there, he tried to get her to date and marry John F. Kennedy's son, among other things, and was very much involved in trying to manage, you know, her entry into New York elite circles, you know, which
	Of course coincided with the sexual blackmail operation in which he became involved with Epstein, pretty much immediately upon arrival, there's a lot of indication that the Maxwell's and Epstein knew each other well before 1991.
	I'm going to change tack, not because I'm nervous about this direction of this conversation, but it's all interesting, but I know that... Sorry!
	No, no, it's not that.
	There's just so much, so much shit we, you know, we've got to cover.
	What you've recognized, as I recognize, I mean, I think this was my first suspicion that things were not as they are presented to us.
	I read a book about 10 years ago called Watermelons about the Green Movement, and I started investigating.
	I set out to ask the question, if climate change, you know, man-made global warming isn't really a problem, Why are the governments and the scientists and the, you know, all these institutions acting as though it's a major problem, and it's really serious, and when there's no evidence.
	I realized that it's not about the environment at all.
	It's about, it's about money.
	And more than that, it's about, I think somebody's telling you on your previous podcast, that these guys don't need the money.
	They can print their money.
	They work for central banks.
	That's not, it's about control.
	It's about power.
	And the environmental movement, I mean, I suppose that they are the useful idiots, aren't they, of the power elite?
	I mean, look at what's going on in my country now.
	You've got Boris Johnson banging on ad nauseam about net zero.
	But no ordinary person wants net zero.
	I mean, you know, freaks like Greta Thunberg do, but they're just kind of tools of the elite themselves.
	But no real person actually wants a crappy new boiler in their house that doesn't actually keep you warm in the winter.
	Nobody wants to have an electric car they can't afford and there's not enough electric points anyway.
	So tell me a bit about that.
	What have you noticed about the environmentalism?
	Well, this is actually a very broad topic.
	So some of the stuff you just brought up, these new heaters, this new infrastructure you're going to be forced to place in your home, the electric cars, all of that, all of those utilities that you'll have to install in your house, the heater, for example, comes with sensors that can all spy on you.
	When David Petraeus was director of the CIA, I think in the Obama era, he was like, well, Not long from now, your dishwasher will be spying on you for us, and that's essentially what this says.
	Because in order for these to function, these smart, greener devices, they have sensors, they have microphones, they connect to Wi-Fi, they do all these things that other heaters did not do, and the evidence that they're actually Quote-unquote greener isn't really necessarily there in the case of most of these.
	There have been advances in some cases of more efficient energy use, but I think the cost of forcing everyone to buy new ones and install them and then throw out and fill dumps with all the old heaters is not exactly as environmentally friendly as is being pitched, right?
	You know, one example in the case of the electric car, if you look at the policy planners here, the goal is to have that all be self-driving cars and for it to be ride shares to eliminate private car ownership and have it basically be self-driving electric Uber systems that will take you from place to place.
	And if you are put on the naughty list by the government, Because you have done this, that, and that in your digital life, you know, you can be prevented from going five kilometers from your house and obviously this particular system, electric system, whether it moves away from the private ownership model.
	Sooner or later can just turn off once you're five kilometers from your house and prevent you from going any further.
	I think that's really what this is all about.
	And if you look into, you know, the whole electric car thing, the batteries, the engines, all of that require very extensive mining to be done in the third world.
	That's very exploitative and very destructive things for, you know, require a lot of lithium, a lot of nickel, a lot of A different infrastructure that's going to be extracted from the environment and the same exploitative way as as traditional ones, the idea is that oh it'll just be powered and electricity, but you know there's also the, the fact that like diesel engines for example, people have been able to adapt those.
	For years because of how they were originally designed to be able to run on vegetable oil and stuff like that.
	But instead we're being pushed to, you know, electric vehicles that use lithium ion batteries and all of this stuff.
	There's a lot of discussions that aren't going on there as well.
	And in order to also have these supposedly greener smart city infrastructures that requires a lot of data centers, for example, to be set up, run and maintained through what I presume will be public-private partnerships between the government
	And big tech firms and those of course require a lot more electricity than we are currently utilizing and of course depend on a lot of, you know, the same battery, infrastructure, mining and all this type of stuff that's used to create the infrastructure, you know, and those data centers, the hardware, what have you.
	That all comes at a considerable environmental cost and energy costs that's not being factored into the discussion at all.
	So that's one side of it.
	The other side of this is that this ties into a lot of other agendas that we've seen sort of introduced more to the public, I guess you could say.
	Um, and the past year and a half, which has to do with sort of this, um, the need for there to be less people, uh, the idea that people, human beings are bad, what you mentioned earlier about human being, yeah, humans being useless eaters, um, you know, this is going to, this is, that was previously an ideology, you know, maintained by the elite towards the little people, but now it's gone quite pervasive, and this is, if you look at the, um,
	The development of the environmental movement over the last 70 years or so.
	Probably the best work on this that's most accessible to most people would be James Corbett of the Corbett Report, Why Big Oil Conquered the World, and talking about the Rockefeller family specifically.
	Why would the Rockefeller family, the biggest oil barons of all, be so interested in a Green future for you and me going back so many decades.
	I would encourage people to watch that to learn more.
	But just as one example, one of these groups that emerged from this Rockefeller nexus is known as the Club of Rome.
	In the early 70s, they produced a report called The Limits of Growth.
	Which was intimately connected to the launching of the World Economic Forum by Klaus Schwab, also in the early 70s, whose earliest annual meetings promoted this limit to growth idea and the need to remake everything in the name of sustainability, quote unquote sustainability.
	And all of these things, going back to that period of time and so you have the environmental movement as it is now sort of come out of that nexus in a sense and also this idea that there needs to be less people, which of course is manifested in different ways.
	Over the past several years, what we've seen that pop up with the COVID-19 stuff as well in different ways.
	But it has a very long, very unsettling history.
	These Nazis as well are responsible for ideas like, if you look at Corbett's work, things like peak oil.
	Um, and other things, and a lot of these, uh, these pushes, uh, towards the development of certain technologies as opposed, uh, to others.
	But a lot of it doesn't make sense.
	And what's very unfortunate is that a lot of people, regular people in the quote-unquote green movement, don't seem to see the disconnect.
	Uh, but there's a lot of, um, it should, it should start at least now in the age of natural asset corporations and ESG investing be a little more obvious to people.
	But I think, um, There's a couple accessible examples, you know, in the case of Bill Gates, for example, now promoting, you know, a more sustainable future.
	This is the guy a couple years ago who was Monsanto's biggest evangelist, which is, of course, you know, all environmentalists hate Monsanto, right?
	So why are you trusting the guy that claimed that Monsanto was going to save India's agriculture and make it more green and sustainable?
	It was actually called the Green Revolution at the time.
	You know, as instead has even greatly impoverished Indian farmers led to a spike in farmer suicides because they're losing their land due to Monsanto death traps.
	Major pollution and environmental issues coming out of there.
	This is the guy that's telling us how buying all of the farmland in the United States is going to tell us how to do sustainable agriculture.
	Another example, Michael Bloomberg, for example, his new economy forum with Henry Kissinger focuses on a lot of these issues as well, including agriculture.
	I mean, anyone involved in this environmental movement, regular people, should know that there's a lot about sustainable agriculture that's not expensive to implement, like returning to family farms, permaculture, things like that.
	Yeah, Michael Bloomberg thinks that we need to install sensors all over farms, put in robots to harvest stuff, use artificial intelligence to manage farms.
	Which one do you think is actually more green and more environmentally sustainable it should be?
	Quite obvious that there's something going on here.
	And that's why I was saying at the beginning that the solutions that the public is going to be sold, it doesn't matter if they're doing it under the justification as COVID, where, oh, we need more robots, we need more AI, because then there's less person-to-person contact and it's safer and the pandemic won't spread.
	Right now we're at the climate phase where well it's actually this is greener and more sustainable, not to have people involved I mean they're creating an anti human future essentially.
	And and they're they're using they're looking for different ways to sell it to us, and they had to start with coven for whatever reason I think they're.
	As I mentioned earlier, trying to keep people off kilter by, you know, having these lulls where, oh, yeah, we're going to go back to normal, and then the crisis, and then the lull, and then the crisis, people are kept off balance, and unable to think critically and respond, kept in a state of fear, things like that.
	But essentially, the solutions that they want people to adopt are going to continue to be the same.
	Yeah, I'm with you.
	I think if you scratch a billionaire globalist, you'll get a Malthusian.
	And this goes back to the Georgia Guidestones and long before that.
	Where are you on the sort of the vaccines as so-called vaccines, the experimental gene therapy as depopulation device?
	So I think there's been a lot of focus on, I think it's actually, I'm trying to think about how to phrase this the best way.
	I don't want to offend people, but I do want to make a point that I think is very important.
	There are issues with that in terms of adverse events, fatal outcomes, things like that that can be observed right now, but there is also a sizable amount of people Who are very invested in saying that we know exactly what the intended effect of the vaccine is.
	This is what it will do and all of that when we won't be able to know that for several more years.
	And so it's ultimately speculative and I think ultimately can be used against people who are skeptical or critical of the current vaccination campaign.
	Right?
	So I think there's.
	It a need to sort of focus on the facts as opposed to just the theoretical when it comes to this particular hot button issue that is being used as the wedge to drive most of the censorship in this current point in time.
	I do think that from What we've seen that they have been particularly destructive with younger people, the myocarditis phenomena, I think, is very obvious.
	But, you know, again, I have my work tends to focus on On other aspect when I have written about the vaccine I tend to have focused on other things aside from the adverse events because there are a lot of people who are experts, doctors and what have you that do the work there and I am not a doctor therefore I sort of leave that to them and then so I sort of focus on On different things.
	So in the case of, you know, I recently I'm going to be putting out part two of a two part series on Moderna as a company.
	in their mRNA vaccine.
	And if you go and read the first part, you will essentially see that Moderna is a joke of a company.
	There's a reason they were never able to bring a product to market in the heat of the crisis like COVID-19 to remove all of the hurdles that were essentially in their way for bringing a product to market.
	One of the main hurdles that they had faced for years is that the lipid nanoparticle technology that they're Vaccines or products relied on could not be used for multi-dose, more than one dose, which is why Moderna initially was all about creating treatments that were multi-dose therapies for a variety of diseases and conditions.
	They only pivoted to vaccines after they determined they couldn't create a multi-dose product, right?
	Because of extreme toxicity in humans, they couldn't even get it through animal trials.
	So they pivoted to vaccines because at most that would require one or two doses one time and so they could get those approved.
	They thought.
	But that pivot was made in a big way back in 2017.
	What's fascinating is that this issue was widely reported at the time, but has been completely ignored in the context of the booster dose debate, because this same lipid nanoparticle system, Moderna claims they don't use it, but if you look at the evidence, they've never provided evidence that they stopped using it, and they're still locked in a patent battle over that particular nanoparticle delivery system.
	And so if you're going to be creating what's supposed to be a vaccine into a multi-dose product and using this delivery system, we're too toxic for humans.
	Previously, in all of your previous efforts to bring a product to market, why is that not being discussed?
	I mean, obviously, that's just one example.
	But, you know, in terms of it being Um, you know, planned depopulation and all of this, I think they don't really care about adverse events.
	I think there's a lot of factors that have brought the vaccination campaign to where it is.
	I think one of the main factors behind the vaccination campaign is really the vaccine passport.
	And in order to force the implementation on the vast majority of the world, this digital ID infrastructure that previously no one would have Adopted, because if you look at ID2020 and a lot of those other groups, the places where they do their pilot programs before COVID are the most vulnerable people in the world.
	Syrian war refugees, if you want access to food aid, you have to scan your iris and sign up for the ID2020 pilot program with the UN and the World Food Program.
	Are stateless people on the border of Myanmar who have absolutely nothing?
	Okay, we'll sign you up for the ID2020 thing.
	You know, they don't have a choice, right?
	So now they've sort of put that same desperation and vulnerability on the global population and are forcing people to adopt it, essentially using Otherwise, people won't accept it unless they're in that sort of vulnerable state and, oh, I desperately want this back.
	In the West, it's largely been a restoration of convenience, whereas they were using it, you know, for food and things like that.
	In Chile, it was actually a mix of both because of how the quarantines were implemented here.
	If you want to be allowed out of your house for more than four hours a week, you can get the vaccine passport and you can leave Your house to do essential shopping whenever you want.
	Yeah.
	So they've tried the kind of bribing you method, first of all, but surely they're going to move on to coercion after that.
	I mean, we're starting to see that in Australia with Dan Andrews in Victoria now pretty much saying that, you know, you can't have any normal life without a vaccine.
	Sorry.
	Yeah.
	And I mean, are you worried that they might try and start having camps where, because I've noticed this, the mainstream media has been pushing this narrative for some considerable time.
	So for at least six months, probably longer, probably a year.
	Articles effectively vilifying the unvaccinated as the problem.
	You know, somehow we're creating these variants which are killing people who've had the vaccine.
	Although that makes no sense because if you have the vaccine, surely it should protect you.
	But this narrative has been swallowed by so many people and I fear that this is where we're headed.
	What do you think about that?
	Well, I think it's from the perspective of the people trying to implement all these changes.
	They need an extreme divide and conquer scenario in order to be able to take that where they want it to go.
	And I think it's no coincidence that you have all of this going on while in the US, for example, there's been the creation of this large apparatus for the war on domestic terror that Biden essentially launched with January 6 as the
	Pretext, but if you read the documentation on it, they make it quite clear that people who oppose coronavirus measures fall can easily fall in the category of terrorist as you know, for people that think that this is just going to be applied to far right people as as the media.
	tends to claim if you read the Biden administration document, for example, people who oppose capitalism fall on the list of terrorists.
	So it's definitely worded to be as vague and broad as possible.
	But ultimately, you know, the governments of the U.S., the United Kingdom, the Five Eyes Alliance more broadly, have been preparing for some sort of massive crackdown on dissent.
	In the U.S., it goes back to the 1980s, definitely the post-9-11 period for the other Five Eyes countries, particularly during, you know, Occupy Wall Street stuff as well, had another spurt, I guess you could say.
	A lot of this boils down to like continuity of government protocols.
	When COVID-19 first began in earnest in early 2020, there were talks in U.S.
	mainstream media about continuity of government, and that ultimately boils down to declaration of The different crises that can be used to justify the suspension of the Constitution declaration of martial law imprisonment of dissidents by various means.
	It can also include house arrest of dissidents in electronic monitoring, not necessarily.
	I don't know.
	So that, of course, is included in there as well.
	And, you know, this has been something that's been on the books for a very long time.
	You know, how far they'll get in implementing it, I think it remains to be seen.
	And I don't know.
	There's a lot to say about it because it is it is quite dire when you get into the nuts and bolts of exactly what that involves.
	I'm more familiar with the U.S. program.
	protocols on that, because the people that wrote those are the same people that did Iran-Contra and the PROMIS software scandal and various other things.
	They're criminal individuals and people like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were also- Oh, nice people.
	Instrumental in creating that.
	Yeah, yeah, you know, the kind of people you want to hang out with, because if you hang out with Dick Cheney, you know, he'll, like, shoot you in the face, even if you're his friend.
	Is that right?
	Is that what they said about him?
	Is he still alive?
	Well, it happened on a hunting... Dick Cheney is still alive.
	Donald Rumsfeld is not.
	But yeah, but Cheney on a hunting trip with a friend shot his friend in the face.
	Sounds fun to be Dick Cheney's friend.
	I'm sure.
	Can I ask you a question that often people who are normies and who are determined to believe that everything that's happening is just, it's cock up, it's not conspiracy.
	And one of the things they always- Or it's incompetence.
	Oh, it's incompetence.
	Yeah.
	That is very much the OMD.
	What they say is, you know, Look at governments.
	They couldn't even run a bath, let alone a vast conspiracy.
	And they feel that this has answered the question beyond reasonable doubt, that there could be no comeback to that.
	But one of the things they often say is, What is the motivation for this narrow elite?
	What is it?
	Probably the 1% of the 1% of the 1% who are really calling the shots here.
	And people say, well, look, they need us.
	They need us to create all the, I don't know, all the bits for their, you know.
	Not anymore!
	Ah, tell me about that.
	What I mentioned earlier with the Fourth Industrial Revolution, one of the main pillars of that is automation and artificial intelligence.
	And we've already seen, for example, in the case of corporate behemoths like Amazon, efforts to replace human workers with robots.
	But even on the retail level, for example, Starbucks is piloting their AI barista over the course of this year with plans to have one in most, if not all of its locations, which of course are considerable large number of locations around the world with at least one AI barista.
	How long until the humans are gone entirely?
	And that's, you know, essentially in a retail setting.
	Amazon, I think in the UK, Tesco recently joined the cashierless checkout that it all involves on your phone.
	You essentially scan when you enter the store and everything you pick up is tied to you, your unique digital identifier with the corporation, right?
	And then you can just walk out of the store and how convenient you didn't have to go by a cashier at all.
	And all of that, but we're going to see this happen in big ways in manufacturing.
	In Chile, in particular, Chile is one of the biggest producers of copper in the world.
	The whole northern part of Chile, essentially, the economy there is driven by mining.
	And there's a lot of talk, it's a presidential campaign here this year, a lot of talk about the fourth industrial revolution among some candidates.
	Yes.
	Is it good to build back better as well?
	By any chance?
	Well, I don't know.
	I don't think that translates as alliteratively into Spanish now, but he's, he's like, his seashell is his name.
	He's like the worst.
	Well, they're all pretty bad in Chile.
	I don't know.
	Latin American politics is a whole different... But here you are in Chile, as you call it.
	Chile, as I would call it.
	I mean, is there anywhere that's safe in the world?
	Is it?
	Are we all going to stand our ground and die?
	Die with our boots on.
	Is that the kind of deal?
	Well, before I get to that, I just wanted to finish a point I was making about Chile.
	Yeah, so they're automating the mining here, essentially, is what they're going to move to do.
	And that is like a huge part of the economy.
	Most of Chileans, middle class in the north, work in the mining industry.
	They're about to all be cut out, essentially.
	Yeah, so essentially what you have then is, you know, people that have been talking about AI and all of this stuff and automation for a long time, they're like, well, it's not quite clear what people will do once we, you know, automate all of this stuff.
	I mean, come on.
	They need a way to control people when they don't have jobs and an income.
	Obviously, when you have a large number of unemployed, you're more likely to have large numbers, a lot of unrest.
	You know, that's why this is all about all these control systems are being put in place to make sure that automation and all of that goes smoothly.
	It's infinitely more profitable for these corporations to make an initial investment in a robot or an AI algorithm than to continuously pay a worker, have to deal with sick pay.
	There's efforts all over the world to demand better worker benefits.
	better hours, things like that.
	You know, the robot's the ultimate worker for a lot of these people 'cause they're not very interested in the human equations of things.
	So yeah, there's this move to a human free future and that's being coupled with anti-human rhetoric.
	That's very, very, that should be very alarming to people.
	And to answer your other question, is there anywhere safe?
	Sorry.
	So I don't really think that you can really count on any state government to protect you.
	So, you know, some people have said Mexico because Mexico's federal government has been relatively lax in the context of COVID stuff.
	And, you know, that is true, but certain states in, you know, Mexico is a federation of states, right?
	Different state governments have implemented Restrictive COVID measures, vaccine passports, even things like that.
	So yeah, you can keep moving to different states in Mexico to avoid it, but eventually, you know, it may show up and, you know, just think of the leaders that mysteriously died over the course of COVID-19, most of them in Africa.
	You know, it's quite easy to coup a leader.
	It's happened on numerous occasions.
	Not just in Africa, but in Latin America over the past, you know, several years.
	It's not necessarily the same style of coup as happened in the 70s, for example, with the Pinochet coup in Chile, or some of these other ones that happened.
	You have ones that can happen in the legislature.
	You can have election theft.
	You can sort of have these more passive coups.
	Um, take place and have the right people put in power.
	This is why, ultimately, we have to remember that the power lies with the people, not in the state.
	And what I was talking about earlier about this sort of savior politics, if we're waiting for the right guy or the right person to fill the right office, you know, that is a losing strategy at this point.
	We really have to realize the power It does in fact lie with the people and that the people need to start taking it, you know, becoming a having agency, doing something with that power instead of just passively outsourcing it to this guy who seems like he's saying nice things.
	I'll vote for him next time and see what happens.
	You know, we're out of time for that strategy.
	It didn't work.
	It didn't work.
	With any of these These guys.
	And if you're, you know, in the UK, for example, you have the pro-Brexit, anti-globalist group in power right now, and the opposition to that is Keir Starmer.
	Okay.
	Good luck voting your way out of that conundrum.
	You know, and that's quite true.
	Thanks for reminding me of that, Whitney.
	I sort of go up and down.
	Whenever I meet people on our side of the argument, I'm just heartened and it's great to be with normal people who get it and just want to live their lives.
	Unencumbered by state diktat.
	But are you getting the vibe that people are waking up or are we still very few?
	Well I'm probably not the best person to ask about that in terms of real world experience because Chile is very bad in that sense because there is no independent media and there are very few people that question anything.
	Mainstream media is all people watch here and so for the past two years it's been Rough in that sense.
	But in other parts of the world, from what I've heard from people that I either work with or that read my work in the United States, for example, it definitely does seem to be, there does seem to be some major moves happening in that sense.
	I don't know if it all boils down to differences in media consumption.
	Maybe it does.
	But I think there's a lot more at work there, most likely.
	But I don't, you know, I spend most of my time working or taking care of my soon-to-be four-year-old daughter, and I'm waiting for another kid, so I don't exactly have a, you know, I don't exactly have the biggest social circle in the world to be able to go and sort of, you know, gauge that.
	You know, I was in the UK for six months, but I wasn't, I didn't really, like, meet a ton of people, and most people, it was like half and half.
	I should have met you Whitney, I'm annoyed that I didn't, because I'm sure I was dimly aware that you were around.
	Who did you hang with?
	Anyone I know?
	Well, you don't know who I know, so how can you answer that?
	Well, you know, I was in Wales, so I wasn't necessarily like, yeah, I wasn't super close to most people in independent media in the UK, Cardiff.
	Cardiff?
	That is a very weird choice.
	Yeah, I mean, that's quite, yeah, that's that's not exactly sort of freedom central, is it?
	No, it's not.
	And it wasn't.
	Well, I'd rather not get into the specifics of all of that.
	No, I've got a friend who lives in Chile and I know that the regime there was... you had one of the stricter, you know, masks everywhere and... Oh yeah, it's been hellish.
	So how did you deal with that?
	Um okay, so basically the quarantines in Chile were really extreme and interfered severely with my ability to get child care because they shut down all the daycares.
	So one of the main motives for going to the UK for the six months I was there, which is the duration of like a tourist visa someone like myself could have, was so that my daughter could actually go to daycare and socialize with other people.
	Because for most of the time until they implemented their vaccine passport system in May, so for everyone, including those who wish to go along with this particular agenda, who have chosen that, if quarantine was declared in your area, you were only allowed out of the house twice for two hours a pop, a total of four hours a week outside of your home.
	To do essential shopping and you had to show papers to even get into a grocery store or any sort of locale, even if it was banks, all of that to fill up on gas.
	It's just very unpleasant.
	People had enough of that, I think, and they said they won't do it anymore.
	But then they're like, oh, we may be experiencing a new wave at the end of the year.
	So if there's a big jump in cases, it'll come back.
	Basically, the health minister of Chile is a ghoul.
	He's a short, awful little man that's sort of like a dwarf named Enrique Paris, and he has recently been on this whole thing about the unvaccinated are going to kill everyone and themselves and infect their relatives.
	They have a database already of everyone who's unvaccinated in the country.
	They recently on government state funded news said, we know all of the 1.2 million or so people who haven't gotten vaccinated yet.
	And there's no excuse.
	And this Paris guy said that there will soon be much greater restrictions for the unvaccinated in Chile.
	Currently, if you're unvaccinated, you can...
	You can't leave the country, so I'm stuck here.
	You're stuck?
	Yeah, and well it's, I mean, it's all right.
	Could you walk across the border?
	The land borders are, like, not open, so it's only in or out of the airports, but if you don't have the vaccine passport, you can't leave except under emergency circumstances, which are at the whims of the national police, essentially, and they have to give you permission to leave.
	I had a friend who is American.
	And she was denied the first time being able to leave the country to go see her dying mother in California.
	And they approved it the second time, but she arrived like a day or two after her mom died.
	Because they denied it the first time.
	It's a very inhuman, very nasty system.
	People here have largely gone along with it.
	I think a lot of that has to do with the Pinochet era.
	And how that had a the cultural impact that has had and also the people in Chile that tend to push back against the worst parts of what that was tend to be on the on the left here and the left, more often than not, tends to go very much along with The whole COVID narrative and all of that.
	So it's been not very good here.
	But I mean, you know, I don't live in a big city like Santiago.
	Santiago has to be absolutely hellish.
	Sebastián Piñera, who's the president of Chile.
	He sort of framed himself as an anti-globalist figure to get into office, but he's obviously not.
	Yeah, his goal is to make Santiago the first smart city in Latin America, and so a lot of that has been going on.
	Santiago, I believe, is the first City to implement 5g at any meaningful scale in Latin America, which happened relatively recently.
	And it's not exactly going in a great direction, but I live in a rural area and essentially, I think what a lot of this comes down to is that, you know.
	It's people's ability to know people who have their backs and build local community from that and produce what you need as a community and just trying to, you know, handle a parallel system.
	This is a very crazy time that we are living in.
	Just a bit.
	Yeah, you know, and I guess it is easy for people to be to be scared.
	But really, you know, as I see it, it's just you have to do what needs to be what needs to be done.
	I know that there are people that have in Chile and elsewhere that have complied with the whole vaccine passport thing because they didn't want to lose their job and all of that.
	But, you know, once you take that initial step into the system, it's that much more difficult to take a step in the other direction.
	I guess the parallel system.
	Direction, the step away from tyranny, once you put one foot in the system, it's harder, it becomes increasingly hard to remove it if you choose to do that at a later time.
	But I think the uncrossable line we've mentioned earlier, which has to do with CBDCs and giving them financial control.
	And giving them a monopoly over the power over what you buy and sell and all of that.
	It's really amazing where Christians aren't vocal about this, considering, you know, their, their scriptures and all of that.
	But, you know, it is what it is.
	Yes, where are you on that?
	Are you a believer?
	So I don't really like to, since this is publicly, we can talk afterwards, but since this is public, I tend not to put my views out there because, well, basically the whole thing I try and do with my work is appeal to people irrespective of their religious beliefs or political beliefs and just put the facts out there.
	So, you know, talking about those types of things tends to Sometimes make people not want to read, you know, I'd prefer not to.
	Not to go into that if I don't have to, but I do think it is quite interesting that there are quite clear indications for that particular faith group about such a system and how there's pretty much complete radio silence on that.
	And well, what's interesting also is that you have the Vatican very much involved in this effort to create a new economic system.
	Inclusive capitalism is what the Vatican calls it.
	Yes, well you've got the Pope.
	I mean, you're familiar with Cristina Figueres, who's absolutely up to her neck in sort of redistributions, the whole sustainability agenda, which is a kind of globalist, communitarian coup, isn't it?
	And you've got Schellnhuber, you familiar with the guy Schellnhuber, who when Pope Francis came up with his encyclical Laudato Si, which is a kind of, you know, basically bought into the whole, all the shibboleths of the environmental movement, you know, redistribution and climate change is real and so on.
	Pope Francis is essentially a Marxist.
	He's completely on board with the New World Order.
	I don't think any of his message has anything to do with Christianity.
	It's all about the Great Reset.
	He's from Argentina if you look in his past about what he was doing during the junta, the military junta regime in Argentina.
	It's very bad for him and he's clearly a supporter of totalitarianism.
	Essentially, as implemented there.
	I think terms like Marxist and stuff like that can be used to sort of divide, in a sense, because ultimately what we're talking about is an authoritarian system, right?
	And you can get to authoritarianism from the right or to the left.
	In the case of the military government in Argentina at the time, who is now Pope Francis.
	I forget his non-Pope name.
	Yes, something like that.
	Lots of Italian names in Argentina.
	Anyway, he was essentially supportive of that, despite saying he wasn't to one person.
	He's a very two-faced guy.
	If you look into the stories about him from that period, from people that served in the church alongside him, or ran parishes that he oversaw, there's a case where he sold out A particular parish for having dissenters.
	One of them was a pregnant woman who was disappeared and all of this stuff.
	The people that, the priests under him.
	They didn't mention that in the Netflix.
	He sold them out.
	No, of course not.
	Two post drama that I saw with Anthony Hopkins and Who's the other guy?
	It's Jonathan, Jonathan Price, I think.
	And he gave a really kind of sweet impression of Pope Francis's background.
	But they both came across really well.
	But funny, isn't it?
	Like, like, like, yeah, I read about him back when I worked at Met Press News, because it's, um, You know, quite telling that he's just willing to go along with whatever agenda is convenient for his career position or privilege or whatever.
	He they knew that from a long time ago.
	So it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
	And now he, of course, is in a very prominent position at a very critical time.
	How convenient for him and for them.
	So, yeah, that's essentially.
	What it boils down to but you know in a lot of Latin America is a very Catholic area and there's also a large evangelical presence in Latin America and there's really no Christian based pushback against this particular system but I don't think it's really visible to people here yet for the same reason I brought up about Media consumption, the financial side of it, the CBDC stuff.
	Just in Chile, it was the Central Bank of Chile announced the central bank digital currency stuff maybe a month ago and it doesn't really get any coverage.
	So I think they're intentionally avoiding alerting people to that.
	But it's unfortunate that there's just a huge dearth of independent media, really just in Spanish in general, so it doesn't really circulate.
	The English-speaking world has most of it, but in a lot of other countries it's not really available in the same way.
	So that is a big advantage for English-speaking countries, for sure.
	But will they be taking advantage of that advantage?
	taking advantage of that advantage, you know, that remains to be seen.
	So.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't want to put a down on the sort of the end of our podcast, but, you know, I just look around me and people have just been sort of brainwashed, gaslighted, whatever, into a position of remarkable complacency given what's into a position of remarkable complacency given what's happening.
	I went into a A bakery the other day and there was a that they were there everywhere is encouraging you to pay by card never buy never buy cash and I discovered that they would grudgingly accept cash and I said well you know you really ought to accept I said to the girls behind the counter they obviously didn't own the bakery that like it's really important that people keep using cash because if you don't use cash you realize what's going to happen They couldn't have been less interested.
	It was like almost like I was an old pervert who'd come to proposition them with or something.
	That was kind of the mixture of indifference and contempt.
	And you're thinking, yeah, how do we how do we persuade a culture to defend itself when it doesn't realize that there's anything to defend itself against?
	They don't even realize there's a problem.
	And before you can react to the problem, you've got to know that the problem exists.
	Right.
	Well, you know, I'm 32, so I'm a millennial, right?
	And I can speak more to the American side of this.
	But, you know, there isn't really a lot of culture to defend for, like, young people these days, because I think they've really eroded a lot of what, for a long time, sort of held nations together as like a people, that sort of cultural Uh, I don't know if I want to say collectivism, but sort of, you know, things, this is what makes us British.
	This is what makes us American or whatever, you know, um, you know, there's really not, um, uh, that's not really as, uh, binding maybe as it once used to be.
	Uh, and I think obviously that plays into the hands of people who want to eliminate nation states, uh, entirely.
	Not that I think nationalism is like the best thing ever.
	Uh, right.
	But, um, You know, I think a lot of people my age are really...
	Uh, jaded and just start meh about everything.
	I mean, most people I went to like high school with, for example, uh, that I still talk to pretty much.
	There's a lot of people, there's people from my high school that like follow my work and love it.
	And then, you know, one of my best friends from high school is like a doctor, very much involved in the whole, uh, official narrative of the whole, you know, COVID thing, but their attitudes towards most stuff is just meh, you know?
	And that's essentially, I think at least in the U S sort of the millennial approach is like, I don't care.
	Complete indifference to most stuff, and I think that's not good, but I think there's obviously a counterculture within that that has developed and is willing to push back, at least in some parts of the U.S.
	But, you know, it's complicated.
	There's a lot of cultural factors at work.
	I'd like to see some examinations of that that are objective and You know, responsible, I guess, and aren't just, you know, one generation dunking on another, you know, but there seems to be a lot of things that sort of keep us immobilized or keep certain age groups and generations immobilized and others not, right?
	So, but if there's anything that can be said, it's that the powers that be are quite adept at dividing us and have made major efforts to create those divisions well before what we're experiencing now, so they can essentially, you know, dial up those divisions at their convenience with a just a handful of media stories or events or announcements.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well that's, so I think we ought to end on a happy note.
	Tell me some happy things, Whitney.
	Give us some positive thoughts to end the show.
	Well, in terms of what I'd like to end with, I don't know if I necessarily want to give people a false sense of optimism, but as maybe some sort of tips or strategies that maybe people in this particular, I guess, area of thinking these days, not really sure what to call it, maybe,
	We can do to advance stuff, you know, so I think, you know, I think it may be time if you're trying to reach people who haven't been reached yet, perhaps maybe it's time we can focus more on what I was sort of I you know throughout this discussion I've sort of differentiated
	Between the justification that's being used to sell stuff to people and what the underlying solutions are, and I think if we focus more of our attention, not all of it necessarily, right, but more of it, particularly when we're talking to normies or whatever, on the solutions part and why the solutions are bad and they solve nothing and who they really benefit, without even getting into the divisive issues, which are Vaccination, COVID-19, climate change.
	We can sort of circumvent some of that pre-built-in division with some of the people that we need to push back against this agenda and focus on specifically on how the solutions being pitched to us by the ruling class are not solutions and are a control system and why it's bad.
	I think a lot of the attention needs to start going there.
	And I think that may be helpful for several reasons.
	So even within, you know, this also happened in the in like the 9-11 Truth Minute, people who don't believe the official story of September 11th.
	There's a lot of diversity, of course, and in that of people who think, oh, they lied about X, Y, and Z to, you know, Inside job to others, you know, there's a whole, there's a lot of, you know, theories there and people just got really bogged down and debating.
	Well, I know what happened and this is it, blah, blah, blah, blah, as opposed to sort of, you know, let's just all acknowledge and collectively demand that there be, you know, something done that it was, you know, we were lied to about it, whatever, right?
	So.
	Some people have pointed out that that made it easier to sort of immobilize that particular movement.
	So some things do seem to be happening now that are pretty similar to that, particularly in terms of the vaccine debate.
	There's, oh, the vaccines definitely contain X, Y, and Z, and this is what it will do.
	Or the vaccines are definitely designed to do this 5 years from now.
	Or, you know, there's a lot of division being stirred up even within, I guess, our camp.
	You know, the people who are opposing this.
	So I think the disinformation tactics of the powers that be in the state, I mean, that's considerable.
	They invest a lot of time in trying to divide resistance movements.
	We can certainly get a lot of that, I think, and also reach people who haven't been reached yet, normies.
	In the general public by sort of just circumventing that entirely and focusing on things like, why is the vaccine passport bad?
	It doesn't matter what you think about vaccination or the vaccine.
	This is why it's bad.
	Why are central bank digital currencies bad?
	You have to show that it's not just central banks, it's also Wall Street banks that are involved in this.
	No one likes the bankers on the left or the right, right?
	We need to start strategizing about targets, I guess you could say, things to attack and expose that can get us the biggest traction, I think.
	No, I think that's good.
	I see my lights start to strobe, which is a sign that I've gone on for a long time.
	Okay.
	Yeah, no, I agree.
	It's a bit like saying, don't divide your audience by saying...
	Climate change is a load of rubbish.
	There's no evidence to support it.
	Instead say, look, wind turbines, even if they are, you know, they don't even work on their own terms.
	They don't look after the environment.
	They kill birds and bats.
	They harm the environment.
	So don't use wind turbines as a way of kind of making nasty climate change go away, because it doesn't do that.
	That seems to be a much more clear thing than sort of confronting people on the issue of whether global warming is real.
	Well, you know, I'm not trying to tell people not to talk about the other stuff.
	I'm just saying there needs to be a group of people or someone producing reports that are just completely objective in that sense and focusing on stuff that circumvents the more contentious issues.
	I don't want to be the person saying, oh no, I don't think we should be talking about the vaccine anymore and what's wrong with it.
	I don't think that at all.
	Just so people don't misunderstand me.
	But I think it's quite clear that this can be used to further divide people resisting and also to divide people resisting from people who don't know what's going on yet but normally would resist.
	And I think we need to think about some different strategies.
	And there are strategies to do that that I think could be effective, but I think we need to start Strategize, right?
	About why we still have platforms online, because there is this push to sort of link it all to the digital ID and eliminate anonymity on the internet and censor it even more, and this effort to exert even greater control over that.
	So we do have this window, but I think there needs to be efforts to sort of focus on On that specifically, I think there is time to do that.
	There are people capable of doing that.
	And if done appropriately, it could be very successful.
	Yeah.
	Oh, well, good.
	Whitney, thank you very much for appearing on the podcast.
	Tell us about, you must plug Unlimited Hangout and tell us about your work.
	I know we can't support you on Patreon anymore because you've been kicked off.
	So I'm going to feel rather ashamed when I mention my Patreon age wrong, because I haven't yet been kicked off.
	But it's very dark.
	You didn't even do anything wrong, did you?
	No, they left the part of what I had supposedly done wrong blank on the email they sent me.
	Outrageous.
	I normally put like an offending link there and they did it on mine.
	I asked for a follow-up and they said that your truthful information about the conflicts of interest of the people behind the AstraZeneca vaccine may prompt people not to take the vaccine, therefore remove it or we will remove you.
	Yeah, that was essentially what it was.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, so my website.
	Oh, sorry.
	Come on, go on.
	Plug away.
	Okay.
	Well, you're welcome to follow my work at unlimitedhangout.com.
	I would really recommend signing up for my mailing list.
	Because you know, everyone's days are numbered on social media.
	As I see it, anyway.
	But if you are interested in looking at social links, I have a Twitter, at underscore Whitney Webb, and there you can go to my link tree, which has links to the Unlimited Hangout Telegram channel.
	There's also a chat group there as well.
	And some of the other, I guess, lesser known, but still used by some anyway, social media No, Facebook.
	Sorry, I don't use it.
	MySpace?
	No, but Facebook may soon be as archaic as MySpace since Facebook came out today or yesterday that they're changing their name from Facebook to something else.
	To rebrand for their ambitions in virtual reality.
	So we'll see what happens there.
	That would be great.
	Zuckerberg well because he needs all the love and help he can get.
	Right.
	He needs a lot of help.
	He definitely needs help in learning how to apply sunscreen.
	I don't know if you've seen that picture.
	Anyway, in terms of supporting my work, you can go to rockfin.com.
	R-O-C-K-F-I-N.com.
	And that's where I post my podcast, which is paywalled for the first couple days.
	But for people that Support my work.
	You can either support directly through the site on Unlimited Hangout, there's the Support Us tab, or you can go to unlimitedhangout.com slash join.
	There you can become a member, get access to content that I pay well, but things that I pay well are only pay well for a couple of days, and then they're publicly available.
	I don't keep anything permanently.
	Paywall.
	But it's essentially, you know, if you want to support, the best thing to do is either directly through the site or through Rockfin.
	And Rockfin also hosts my video audiovisual content.
	So not just my podcast.
	That goes out on other podcasting apps as well, too, once it's public.
	But also some video work I do as well, which... I mostly am a writer, but I do do some videos here and there.
	Okay, well, cool.
	Well, dear listeners, viewers, once you finish supporting Whitney in all her projects, don't forget you can still support me on Patreon as long as I'm there, or on Subscribestar, or you can go to my website, dellingpoleworld.com, where There's even a Bitcoin button, which I wish more of you would use.
	I want some more Bitcoin.
	I like Bitcoin.
	Bitcoin's fun.
	And you must have accumulated loads by now.
	I mean, those of you who kind of like the sort of stuff I do.
	So yeah, freedom isn't free.
	And Whitney and I both need support, because after all, we're not going to get jobs with the mainstream media, I don't think.
	Do you, Whitney, you like to get a column in the New York Times?
	No, but I don't, I don't, I don't want to work for them, though.
	I mean, I see most of them as, you know, paid for hacks, for lack of a better term.
	You're way too polite.
	I'm thinking more kind of like sort of guards at Auschwitz or somewhere.
	I mean, yeah.
	No.
	Well, gatekeepers.
	Yeah.
	But, you know, they're the ones with the big payrolls, but that's because they're funded by, you know, Pfizer and a lot of these other big corporations that tend to own the media more often than not these days.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Whitney, it's been Fantastic having you on the podcast.
	Thank you very much and good luck in Chile.
	I hope the regime doesn't get too authoritarian on your ass, but it sounds like... They're getting authoritarian everywhere, you know, so we'll see what happens.
	Yeah, okay.
	Yeah, good.
	Have a good one.
	Bye-bye.

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