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Sept. 4, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:25:52
Catherine Austin
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I love Danny Paul!
Welcome to The Deling Pod with me, James Delingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really, really, really, really am excited about this week's special guest.
And you can see already, it's Catherine Austin-Fitz.
Catherine, welcome to The Deling Pod.
I'm really excited to have you on.
Well, thank you.
I'm a fan, so it's always a pleasure to join.
That's even more exciting.
Had you not been a fan, had you not known what to expect, I was going to say that The function of the Deling Pod now, I think, is to act as a kind of a magic portal or a sort of gateway drug to normies who want to go down the rabbit hole.
Because I was a normie until really quite recently, and so much of my understanding of the world has changed in the last six months, let alone the last 18 months.
And you... Well, but don't you think sometimes you just, you wake up and say, I'm going to have a normie day.
And enjoy it.
Yes.
No, I still do that.
Not least because there are members of my family who are normies.
And so I've got no option but to play the game.
But I wanted to ask you, because you've known about the truth of the world for quite some time.
But there must have been a time in your life where you too were what I might call a normie.
You're kind of a gamekeeper turned poacher, aren't you?
You were once an impeccable part of the establishment.
Right, but that's, you know, because of that you know it's not normal.
Yes, no.
In other words, I was a conspiracy perpetrator.
I was a conspiracy foot soldier.
So I thought of the world as having, you know, an overt side and a covert side, and it was all perfectly, you know, that's the world I grew up in, that's the way it was.
So, okay, so you had your career in finance, very successful, and you also worked for the George H.W.
Bush Sorry, I'm about to choke on some toast.
When you were at that stage in your life, did you kind of believe in the system?
You believed that government basically had our back and that the financial sector wasn't there to rape us and so on?
Or were you always suspicious of everything?
No, I always knew that, you know, I always knew there was a covert side in there.
I always knew there was an overt side.
And I didn't, you know, I didn't have faith in the system other than the system was the system that, you know, and I believed that you had to work within the system.
If you wanted to get something accomplished, you had to work within the system.
And I believe there was a benefit to trying to work within the system.
So, but I was fully aware of An extraordinary, an extent of a very extraordinary covert world, but I didn't dwell on it.
In fact, I wasn't, I really wasn't that interested in it.
And you were aware of that covert world because of your family background?
Right.
Which was, which is, tell me about that a bit before we go on to the... So my father was a very successful surgeon and my mother I worked at the Federal Reserve before she had children, and she had kids and, you know, stayed home and raised her children.
But she was an economist.
And if you look at my grandparents and who they were, one side of the family, my grandfather was the Dean of Social Sciences at the Rockefeller Foundation and Dean of the Wharton School, so very academic.
And the other was a doctor in Jackson, Tennessee, who started the local clinic that became the local hospital.
So the Southern side was very much doctors and the Northern side was very much economists and academicians.
But they were, you know, they were very involved in how the world worked.
So, you know, if you came, if you, we had a family farm in New Hampshire and we'd all go up there and go hiking.
And then if you sat down at the dinner table, You know, the conversation was always about what was going on in the whole... Wait a minute, sorry.
That was not supposed to be on.
So the conversation was about, you know, why are we going to war with this place and what's going on here?
And if you were going to change this, how would you...
Uh, how would you do it?
You know, my, my great, my grandfather on my father's side had started his clinic in Jackson, Tennessee, and he had, um, uh, uh, after he had the clinic open with a partner for a year, they decided they weren't good enough and they shut it down and went up to the Mayo Clinic to do a residency for a year.
And then when they came back, they introduced, um, penicillin to Tennessee.
They had a cousin who was in the legislature, and so they worked with the cousin and got antibiotics introduced into Tennessee.
And then when my father came back from the war, he was a doctor at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital.
They picked up the hospital and brought the whole hospital over to China, and then they brought it back after the end of the war.
And he had been a lead surgeon in the MASH unit, and he took one look at how we're doing emergency rooms.
And then as part of effort for the Rockefeller Foundation, he literally reinvented how emergency rooms in the United States should be done.
And that was introduced all over the country, and he became head of the traumas, one of the big trauma societies.
And so At the dinner table, it was like, okay, well, your grandfather saved thousands of lives introducing antibiotics to Tennessee and your father saved thousands of lives by reinventing emergency rooms.
So what are you going to do with your life?
You were expected to go out and make an extraordinary difference to Western civilization.
If you didn't, you were a putz.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
I mean, When I heard you mention the word Rockefeller, I instantly thought, well, you're kind of, yeah, as you said, a foot soldier of the cabal.
Right, so I was, I cannot overestimate my unimportance in the scheme of the hierarchy.
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, yeah, but everybody, you know, everybody had to make things go.
You know, the way the world worked, everything worked by transactions.
And transactions were basically the fundamental train tracks of how you built your future.
And they were all conspiracies, not because necessarily you were doing anything wrong, but because you kept things quiet, you kept them discreet, otherwise you'd run into trouble.
Right.
Right.
And so I was shocked when I first left the establishment.
I was shocked to discover that anybody would think a conspiracy was a bad thing.
I was like, yes, conspiracies.
I love them.
I do them.
I'm really good at them.
That's how you create your future.
It's like, if you think they're bad, it means you're powerless because you can't create anything.
Right and was there a moment where you suddenly thought well hang on a second my original view of the world was slightly warped and I mean warped by privilege obviously but also kind of morally inadequate?
Well here's the interesting thing my my father wanted to be close to the emergency room so he bought a little row house in West Philadelphia And the neighborhood deteriorated dramatically after he bought it and we just stayed there.
So I grew up on the streets.
So my, uh, it was a very unusual childhood because day to day I would be playing street football with kids in a very poor neighborhood.
Then I would go to a private school downtown and then I would, you know, I would go to my grandfather's house and listen to, you know, what they were doing at the Rockefeller foundation.
So, You know, the spectrum, I always lived a life as a child that went from living with and working with people who were very poor to people in the middle class to people who are exceptionally wealthy.
And it was just my, you know, I lived a world that was very multicultural.
Right, yeah, but you're talking about kind of the very strata of the social class system, whereas I think what I'm thinking of more is this gulf that I've only just realized existed in the world, between a kind of a sort of narrow predator class elite, way above the level of, say, presidents and prime ministers, and the rest of us, whom they view like cattle.
Well, but here's what happened.
What happened was as the world's, you know, as the official reality got further and further apart from reality.
And a lot of this happened with digital technology because you could centralize control.
So very few people could do a lot of things, very centralized, particularly the financial fraud and the financial shenanigans.
But as the two worlds got further and further apart, some of the covert stuff got darker and darker because the more they got away with, The worst they would get.
And we literally had a progression from the 80s of the fraud getting and the, you know, it started with the assassination of Kennedy.
Yeah.
So you had four assassinations in the 60s and the people who did them were very emboldened by the fact that they got away with them.
And then they started on the financial fraud and that got that really took off in the 80s.
And you'd hear these conversations where they just couldn't believe they got away with it.
And the more they got away with it, the more there was a disrespect between them and the general population.
Because the message in the general population is, we'll go along with whatever you want to do as long as you cut us in for a little piece of the pie, and you give us a story that allows us to pretend that we're really good.
I call it the story of I am good.
And the more they got away with, and the more the general population would go along for basically a tiny cut, The more disrespect grew between the two groups.
That's interesting.
Really interesting.
Because I thought that the beginning of our current woes, well, was possibly the French Revolution, but maybe more recently the creation of the Federal Reserve.
I mean, the guys who created the Fed were not... Well, the central banking... Right.
The central banking warfare model is almost 500 years old.
So if you go back to the creation of the, I think the Swedish central bank was the first, but the bank of, you know, the Dutch central bank and bank of England.
So we're talking about a very old model.
And two things happened with the central bank warfare model, which was, you know, war became unbelievably economic and attractive, particularly with the bond market, because you can print the money to have the war, And so you don't have to pay for war on a pay-as-you-go basis.
It's interesting, if you read Sun Tzu and the Chinese art of war, what you realize is, oh, this is the art of war if you have to pay for wars on a pay-as-you-go basis.
If you have to tax the people that you're asking to be your soldiers at the same time, that's a very different philosophy than if you can finance it for free, throw a lot of money around, people are making money, have the war, You just better win before you have to pay it back.
Although if you just debase the currency and can get away with that, that strategy seems to work.
The central banking warfare model was remarkably successful.
I'll just call them the G7 nations.
And the challenge became when you globalized, you know, the central banking warfare model, you print money and your military makes sure everybody trades it for real labor and natural resources.
And so the first world had a wonderful experience at the expense of the third world, because that's where you're extracting the natural resources for free.
And that's where the money you're paying for your military in the central banking warfare model pays because the The natural resources and labor you extract is worth more than the military expense you have to pay to make the central banking warfare model go.
So when we decided to globalize, then the question is, okay, who's going to pay the subsidy?
And I don't know if you've seen it, but to date, the best description of globalization that has ever occurred was published in 1994.
It was an interview I'm on the Charlie Rose Show by Sir James Goldsmith.
And he basically explains the problem of if you switch the extraction of that subsidy from the third world to basically first world labor.
And so with globalization, you're flipping the model and then the question is, you know, who's gonna have the subsidy extracted out of their resources and their assets?
Right, because you've run out of kind of targets to predate, or easy targets.
Well, you haven't run out of targets, but you basically you're saying, okay, You know, instead of the first world being subsidized by the third world, we're going to globalize, we're going to get the benefit of the wealth of bringing some of the third world up, but we're going to take our labor and deflate their value tremendously by doing this.
Right.
So we, the elites, are going to continue to grow our wealth by basically throwing our middle class overboard.
And Goldsmith, If you go to Soleri and do a search for Sir James Goldsmith, you'll get Globalization Warning.
To date, it's the single best presentation on how globalization works and why, at the heart, it has nothing to do with creating wealth.
It has to do with centralizing wealth.
Because a lot of people are going to be, who have not come across you before, are going to see this incredibly respectable woman with a fantastically successful career behind her, speaking with authority and reasonableness and calmness.
And what you seem to be saying is that all the wars of the last 500 years have essentially been money-making schemes for a tiny elite.
Is that fair?
No, because I don't think it's just money-making.
You know, if you look at how the economy is managed, yes, money-making or resource-making is important if you just print money.
Money is sort of a, you know, it's a tool, but it's not real.
What counts is land and real estate and technology and real assets.
So many of the wars are fought for power and money, but the fundamental managing of the economy is driven by risk management.
So, you know, sometimes I liken the planet to a house and you have an asset, but then you have debt and you have equity and you have insurance.
And so the insurance industry, the central banks, the banks, the pools of intergenerational capital, they are trying to manage risk.
And many times you'll see, or sometimes you'll see war fought for very strategic reasons and they relate to risk and risk management and culture is important.
So, um, You know, so it's not wars are not just about money, but where you can finance a war in the bond market or by printing currency and instead of having to pay for it with taxes and pay as you go.
It's a very different political, you know, the politics of war become very, very different.
I mean, I'm still quite new to all this, but am I right in thinking that the First and Second World Wars couldn't have happened essentially without finance from American backers?
Yes.
So I think the first two wars were very much driven by the city in New York.
So I call it the Anglo-American Alliance.
This is the financial interest behind the Anglo-American Alliance, definitely.
And that's always the mystery, what's involved.
Because sometimes I'll say that what we're living in right now is a culmination of a 10,000-year-old war.
Because this planet has had a secret governance system for a long, long time.
And if you look at some of the things that have been going on in this planet, it's not what you and I learned in history.
One thing I would like to point out to you that I think would be very instructive for your exploration, if what you say is true about you being recent to sort of coming out of normal.
Yeah.
And that is something very important is happening right now.
And that thing that is very important is that we are basically, for the last 10 years, tearing up the Treaty of Westphalia.
So are you familiar with the Treaty of Westphalia?
No.
Okay.
So I think it was at the end of the Hundred Years' War, we agreed on a construct in the Western world where sovereign governments would have a monopoly on force within their borders, within their jurisdictions.
And you and I have always lived in a world that operated like that, where when we're in a jurisdiction, we know who controls enforcement, who's got a gun, who can say, no, you can't do that, okay?
So the state has a monopoly on force.
We're moving into a world where that's no longer true, where the deterioration of national sovereignty means that multiple players can start a war and bring force within a jurisdiction, not just the sovereign no longer has monopoly control.
So that is a remarkably different world than the world that you and I have grown up in.
So can you give me some examples?
I mean, has it already started happening or is it about to happen?
Yes, it's already started happening.
So we've seen over the last 20 or 30 years, significant growth of private mercenaries, both private mercenary armies, but private mercenary surveillance and intelligence agencies.
And so, you know, any, it is remarkable the extent to which enforcement of a particular policy or idea will happen You know, because a private party is enforcing it.
So I tend to, if you come into Soleri, every week we have a movie, we have a section called Let's Go to the Movies.
And one of the reasons I did is when I tried to start explaining To my friends and family, sort of what was going on in Washington with the growing corruption.
When I discovered James, it was much easier to tell them to go watch that movie and just say, oh, well, this piece and this piece and this piece is really true.
And it got me to the point where I said, you know, in America, fact is fiction and fiction is fact.
Yeah.
And it's quite remarkable, but there's so much of what, you know, so I go back to this parallel world.
So think of it like Disney World, where you have all the people below ground sort of engineering things, and then above ground you have Minnie and Mickey and this wonderful fantasy land.
So I find that if you want to explain sort of what's going on covertly, You know, one of the best ways to do it without reading thousands and thousands and thousands of pages is to just read the right or watch the right movies.
So I always tell people in America, if you want to understand the American economy in 1979, as of 1979, sit down on a Saturday and watch Godfather 1, Godfather 2, Godfather 3, but just appreciate it's an economics training movie.
It's not entertainment.
You look very baffled.
No, no, I'm not.
Well, just tell me a bit why that is the case.
Because, look, I've been telling people since I learned about the history of the Federal Reserve that America is basically a sort of gangster state, a kind of criminal conspiracy, with the CIA controlling the drugs and arms trade, acting not for the American taxpayer, but they're a law unto themselves.
Am I fairly accurate there?
Is that the situation?
So I would say that the model is highly dependent.
The American economic model is highly dependent on war and highly dependent on organized crime.
It's highly financially dependent.
But I would also point out that the involvement and support and general activity involves the entire population.
You mean they're all complicit?
So the entire population is part of this machinery.
Right.
So it's deep in the model.
But most Americans think they're living in, I don't know, it's a wonderful life.
They think they're living in an approximation of that world.
You know, you work hard, you go to college, you pay your mortgage, But that's all, that's not the case.
So most Americans thought they were living in that world 20 years ago.
Most Americans don't feel that now.
Right.
But what they do do is they, what they like to do is they like to go to work and assume as long as it's legal, it's okay if I do it and I don't think about it and I don't ask questions.
And then people give me, I call it the story of I am good.
You know, I'm good because of this.
So let me give you an example.
So I tell this story often, so stop me if you've already heard it.
I was asked to give a speech in 2000 to a wonderful group of people called Spiritual Frontiers Foundation International.
And they have a conference once a year to talk about how to help evolve our society spiritually.
They're very well educated.
They're very, I would say, financially secure.
They're very intelligent.
They're nice people.
They really care.
So a friend of mine who had asked me to give a speech called How the Money Works on Organized Crime, and it was meant to be light and funny, not serious and depressing.
And it was to help them understand the relationship between organized crime money and Wall Street in Washington.
Because Wall Street and Washington had become very, very dependent on illegal money.
At the time, we were the global leader in money laundering.
So the U.S.
financial system was very dependent on this.
So I gave this presentation and I was talking in the middle of the speech.
The U.S.
Congress had held testimony in, I think it was 98, on the drug dealing by the U.S.
intelligence agencies in South Central Los Angeles.
The so-called dark alliance allegations.
And at the time of that testimony, I had been helping a reporter with research, you know, who was covering the hearings.
And the Department of Justice spokesperson had told this reporter that at the time, so 1998, The US economy laundered 500 billion to a trillion dollars a year of all illegal money, making us the number one global leader in money launder.
So I said to this wonderful group of 100 spiritually evolved people, what would happen if we stopped?
So we had a little conversation and they said, well, you know, if we stopped, then that money would go to Zurich or London or Hong Kong.
And, you know, the stock market, the New York stock market would go down and, You know, we'd have trouble financing the government deficit because that money would no longer buy the treasury bonds.
And, you know, that could be a problem.
So I said, okay, well, let's pretend there's a big red button up here on the lectern.
And if you push that button, you can stop all hard narcotics trafficking in your city, your town, your country, thus offending the people who control 500 billion to a trillion dollars a year of dirty money and the accumulated capital there on And so I said, okay, out of a hundred people dedicated to evolving our society spiritually, how many of you would push the button?
So guess how many would push the button?
Nobody, I'll bet.
One.
One would push the button.
So I said, I wouldn't let him talk.
I said to the other 99, why would you not push the button?
And they said, we don't want our stock market accounts to go down.
We don't want our government checks to stop and we don't want our taxes to go up.
So I said, okay, what you're saying is you want the intelligence agencies to continue to market cocaine to your neighbor's children and your children to keep your stock portfolio up?
And what I discovered that day, the problem was not that they would not push the red button.
The problem was that they would not have an honest conversation about what was going on.
Because clearly you can't become wealthy by liquidating your people, right?
So destroying the country, overwhelming it with narcotics trafficking was not a money-making plan, but what they needed to do was to go into the invention room and say, how can we make money pushing the red button?
I call it turning the red button green, because then you can push the red button.
And what had happened was everyone was afraid of talking about this, bringing it up, mentioning it.
They were all afraid of the people who ran the illegal businesses.
Yeah.
Again, some of my questions are going to seem fairly basic because I'm new to all this.
I mean, my heroes are people like Hayek and Mises, and I believe that the free market system was a wonderful way of allocating scarce resources in an efficient and just way, and that one could have an economy Without the need for a sort of tiny elite and a bunch of gangsters enforcing this kind of drugs terror and stuff.
Am I very naive?
Is that not possible?
So, in theory what they were talking about is possible, but you have to have an economy with essentially zero secrecy.
And you have to have an economy with a governance and a management structure which has the capacity to manage whatever risks that society face.
And right now, you and I live in a world which is defined, you know, more than half of the economy and the technology that drives it is secret.
So we have watched since 1947, the secrecy and the percent of the economy in the world that's driven by secrecy grow and grow and grow.
And we have literally become separate civilizations from each other behind that wall of secrecy.
Right.
And behind the wall of secrecy is what?
Obviously the drugs trade and the arms trade.
What else?
Well, that's the $64,000 question.
And I can tell you what the different theories are, but I can't tell you what the truth is.
Okay.
But what I can tell you is since 1947 and 1949, the U.S.
government set up a structure that would allow more and more resources and technology to be managed secretly.
And from everything I know and believe, The technology that is available to the people who run the black budget side of the house is beyond anything that the average person can fathom.
And that includes mind control technology, that includes electromagnetic weapons that can literally, you know, cause you to have a heart attack in your house and, you know, and it's all done from a distance.
That includes technology that can manipulate the weather.
That's technology that can cause something that looks like a natural disaster, like an earthquake.
So it looks like a natural event, but it's not, it's an act of war.
So the technology that's been developed since 1947, and remember trillions of dollars going in there, is absolutely extraordinary and beyond most people's ability to even fathom.
Yeah, you can see my jaw actually hitting the floor there.
I mean, presumably, what is the significance to that date, 1947?
Yeah, it's the National Security Act, and then the CIA Act was 1949.
And both of those acts were, there was great tension and politics around it.
I had a partner from, I was a partner of Dylan Reed.
One of my old partners from Dylan Reed had been the Secretary of Defense and was opposed to the 49 Act and he was assassinated.
He was thrown out and assassinated as part of creating and getting the 49 Act.
It's a very famous story, but what that did was that set up an infrastructure where you took a private intelligence agency that was You basically made a private intelligence agency that operated above the law, the most powerful bank in the world.
With those two acts, that's what you did.
Who is benefiting from all this stuff?
So you have a group of people, how do I explain this?
You have a group of people running the establishment, And they are managing huge amounts of resources.
And what has happened in the 90s and the so since 19, the mid 90s, is you have proceeded to take as a matter of policy, trillions of dollars out of the US government, and probably the European governments and move them into Uh, privately controlled hands.
So think of this is as as a financial coup d'etat.
where you give up on the model of republics with democratic process.
And you say, given the level of secrecy and given advanced technology, you can't trust the electorates to participate in government.
So we've had, let me step back.
We've had a balance of power in Europe, in the United States, or I'll just say the G7 nations, where you have private banks and private bankers running monetary policy.
And then you have the electorate voting for legislatures that run fiscal policy.
So you have this balance of power between the electorate and the bankers.
And what has happened with the financial coup is the bankers have essentially said, we cannot manage a world with this much secrecy, this much powerful technology, and this much risk.
with electorate participation.
So what we're going to do is we're going to have the central bankers take over both sides of the house, move, you know, we'll do that by moving, having a financial coup, we'll move all the assets over into, you know, a secretly controlled entity or entities.
And then we, by bankrupting the government, we'll basically establish control of that, of the fiscal policy and we'll take over.
And if you look at what's being implemented with the essentially plague laws, is you are implementing a system through the financial system where you will have complete control.
So the bankers will have complete control over your financial transactions and you cannot transact If they don't want you transacting more than five miles from your home, you can't.
If you don't get a series of injections or ingest whatever they want you to ingest, then your money will be shut off or your assets will be seized.
So they're looking to assert complete control of individuals in a way, some people describe it as technocracy and transhumanism.
But it's much more, this is much more invasive than totalitarianism or fascism.
Yes.
Because you're talking about literally installing the smart grid in your body.
And they're, you know, and they've got you on remote control.
Yes.
I mean, it's a sort of return to the age of, I don't know, Babylonian kings or Egyptian pharaohs or something, isn't it?
You've got a narrow, narrow elite, a slave class.
And that'll be us.
Right.
But very high tech.
Yeah.
Very high tech.
Yeah.
Apparently, according to the World Economic Forum, I will own nothing but I'll never be happier.
Do you think that's a good prediction?
Do you think that I'll feel happy about that?
Okay, so that's their marketing.
What I hear is, we're going to seize all your assets and mind control you into oblivion.
That's what I hear.
Yes.
That's their plan.
Yeah.
And my plan is that it's not going to work.
Yeah, we'll come to the optimistic bit.
By the way, can I ask you, these people, you call them, you call him Mr. Global, don't you?
That's your name for the class?
Well, here's what I assume.
There is a governance system on planet earth.
Yeah.
There, there's a governance system.
And so my nickname for that governance system, which is opaque, it's secret.
So we live on a planet and we're not allowed to know how the governance system works.
Right.
Yeah.
It's a big secret, but there is a governance system and we know it's relatively centralized.
So my nickname for that, that governance system is Mr. Global.
Yeah.
I've listened to quite a few of your podcasts and you tend not to go into detail about who these people are.
Is that a safety thing as much as anything?
I always think people like you and me are obvious targets for the cabal.
Given that they've got machines that can just give us heart attacks in our homes, what's to stop them doing it?
Nothing is to stop them from doing it.
You know, I've sometimes wondered why they let me do what I do.
Yeah.
And I have a couple of theories I'm happy to share, but they're just as Dr. Fair would say, high-octane speculation.
Yeah, tell me.
I was always deeply loyal.
You know, my vision of my life was sort of working up and being Part of the tribe and doing the tribe proud, it was very important to me.
You know, first and foremost, it's very important to me when I was a partner at Dylann Reed, the idea of making Dylann Reed proud and doing, you know, listing Dylann Reed's name up, that was, you know, there was nothing more joyous to me at the time.
And I felt deeply loyal to people within that structure.
And so, you know, if you look at what happened to me, it was much more You know, I felt, I knew they had betrayed me, but I couldn't believe, you know, I thought, why would you do that?
Why would, you know, why would you betray me?
Now, one of the things that happened, and this is just a theory, and I won't explain the details because it's complicated.
In my world, there are rules, not the formal laws as, you know, as most people think of them, but there are rules.
Like the mafia?
I never broke, right.
It's like the mafia.
And I, never broke the rules that I know of and I believe that somebody broke the rules to to sort of frame me and do what they did and that part of the reason it took so long to reconcile what had happened was it turned out to be very embarrassing because the midi because they'd lied to each other and I hadn't broken the rules and I think I think one, I hadn't broken the rules.
And so two, they thought, okay, well, we'll leave you alone now.
But the other thing is, every time somebody tried to pick on me, it just made it worse.
And finally, somebody said, stop, leave her alone.
And, and to this day, my personal experience is sometimes I feel like I'm the copyright Uh, the copywriter for the CIA, because, you know, I get on a show, somebody wants to know what I think.
And the next thing you know, they're using my stuff.
So there's, uh, sometimes I think, you know, it's hard for them to have honest voices.
So they let people sort of go around and have conversations and talk openly about what they see because it's good feedback for them.
If you're at the top and you're running things, and everybody up at the chain in command is greedy and ambitious, how are you going to get honest feedback?
I see.
So you're a valued contributor.
Well, everybody's looking for a good map, and it's a very dynamic world.
I think they use a bunch of us as mapmakers because they're trying to understand what in the world's going on.
But are these people, I mean, are there among them white hats?
Are the people who are good and actually don't hate ordinary people and do want to do good?
So I found it to be very dispersed and It's gotten much worse in the last 20 years.
You've gotten much more hatred and disdain at the top than you used to have.
And I think the digital technology has been very, you know, it's been very bad in that respect.
But I have always found that no matter how high up you go, almost everybody is a prisoner of the system.
And it's very hard to build consensus around things.
without profound self-interest.
And the problem is, the more centralized the system becomes, and the more the general population will support people getting away with it, you have a slow debasement.
And the challenge in a highly complex civilization that's that centralized is, how do you build consensus for real change if you're running around and everything's secret?
And remember, there's not broad basis support in the United States in the last 50 years for financial responsibility.
There's not support for stopping.
You know, if 99% of spiritually evolved people will not push the red button, how in the world is the president supposed to push the red button?
Good point.
Yeah.
Right.
So here's your problem.
Let's say we made you president of the United States tomorrow.
You know, your political guy, your Karl Rove person would come in and say, okay, well, the American people just spent $10 billion to get you elected.
And now they all want their check.
They want their government contract.
They want their, you know, their community block development grant.
They want an increase on their social security check.
They all want money.
So you turn to your secretary of treasury and your secretary of treasury says, well, you better be nice to the people who control $500 billion to a trillion dollars a year of old dirty money.
Right?
Yeah.
Because you need them to keep printing the money and buying the money.
So you're basically between people who want checks and the central bankers who can print money and you're in the middle.
It's a squeeze play.
Yeah.
And if the spiritually evolved people won't push the red button, how do you push the red button?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point.
So going back earlier on in our conversation, you were saying that it all started with, people started going bad with Kennedy because there were four assassinations that year.
So there was Bobby Kennedy.
First there was, Kennedy was 63.
Bobby Kennedy was 68.
You had Martin Luther King and Malcolm X in there.
So basically in, you know, 63 on within the sixties, you had four very, Uh, very impactful assassinations and it really changed the model.
So we saw at the beginning of the Trump administration, Chuck Schumer gave an interview to Rachel Moundow and he said, the president, you know, the president's going to have to learn.
He can't, he just can't say no to the CIA.
They have 50 ways from Sunday to get you.
And what he was basically saying is the CIA runs the country, not the president.
Right.
Which is, which is.
I don't think that's entirely true, but.
Oh, is it not?
Well, who else does then?
Well, so, so I'm back to the, you know, to the central banking warfare model.
You have the military and the intelligence agencies on one side and you have the central banks and the banks and the insurance companies on the other side.
And it's a coalition, it's a complex planet.
It takes a lot of, you know, people to run the whole financial system.
Yeah.
And so, and so it requires extraordinary cooperations in many respects.
And part of what we're seeing right now is as you're changing the model and the risk is going up, it becomes harder and harder to build the kind of cooperation you need to get everything going without force.
And so you have things like pandemics.
I wanted to bring up one thing that I think might help you.
Have you ever read a book called The Edge of the World?
There's a book review at Soleri, it's The Edge of the World by Michael Pye, and it's a history of the North Sea trading cultures and economies during the Middle Ages.
So it's Holland, it's basically the Hanseatic League territories, including The UK and Scotland and Iceland, all the, all the, you know, and the Scandinavia.
So it's everybody trading on the North Sea and especially around the cod and the fishing stocks, which were a great source of wealth.
Anyway, so I'm, I'm reading it and finally at Christmas time last year, I get to the next to the last chapter and the chapter is called Plague Loss.
And here's what it says.
What it says is we have the bubonic plague.
We institute a series of laws that give people complete control of labor and travel.
They use it to centralize all the capital in the North Sea area, create Antwerp and then Amsterdam.
And after they get this done, they move the reserve currency.
And it's funny, after I read it, I just got on and started mapping out the dates.
And it looks to me like there's an enormous historical relationship between Centralizing control of the plague laws and then moving the reserve currency.
That's interesting.
And is it following the same schedule?
I mean, do the dates match exactly?
It's certainly, you know, so I'm a very intuitive person and I'm looking at what Pi describes as sort of the European cycle of using plague laws to then Get enough control so you can move the reserve currency and then a hundred years later you do it again and then a hundred years later you do it again.
And, you know, I would love to inspire a couple of graduate students to dig in.
You know, it seems to me like a fabulous PhD topic.
What is the relationship between reserve currencies and flag laws?
But it sure feels to me right now like here it is again.
I think this is a very old pattern.
That's, yeah, I'm going to definitely, definitely get that book.
Yeah, I mean, you and I take it for granted that the scandemic, the plandemic, whatever you want to call it, is an artificial crisis engineered for a particular end, which is, I think you've talked about this a lot, to cover up the massive theft I think you've talked about this a lot, to cover up the massive Mr. Global from there.
So I don't think it's designed to cover up.
I think they decided to do a financial coup d'etat.
They're privatizing the G7 governments on the just do it basis.
And now we're into the consolidation.
And they have to consolidate everything, and this is how they're doing it.
Right, right.
By the way, before I did this show, I thought of you, and I thought you'd be proud of me.
I went to the supermarket, and I went to the cash machine.
Because, and I tell this to people, I say, look, you can fight back, you can do your bit, you may think you're unimportant, but But how can you explain to people that they have it within their power to fight back?
I mean, how do you convince them?
Well, here's the interesting thing.
When the system is this centralized, then it means the building of the infrastructure of control.
We are the ones who are doing it.
You know, the beautiful thing about facing what's really going on is what you realize is, oh, we're building the prisons, we're running the prisons, we're building our own slavery machinery, and we have the power to stop.
And one way we can stop is we take everything back to cash and coin.
Yes.
Yeah.
We've skitted around a lot because I love the digressive mode anyway, and you probably do too.
But let's pause a moment so that you can just give me the TLDR, the 101 version of what is happening right now.
What's going on in the world?
So unfortunately, I've really been trying to understand what is, because I think, you know, if I said, if I had one, if the genie jumped out of the bottle and said, you can have one wish, what would your wish be?
I would say stop the passports.
Yeah.
Because the passports are the end of human liberty in the West.
So that was Dr. Naomi Wolf.
That's how she described it.
And I think that's exactly right.
Yeah.
And once they force people on the passports, you know, that's when they're going to start literally mandating, you know, in both the health and the financial area, things which are really do move you into a slavery system.
So this is why I'm adamant about stopping digital control of the money system.
The passports have nothing to do with health.
They have to do with controlling Labor, controlling travel, and controlling your entire financial transaction world.
So, you know, passports will dovetail with CBDCs, and then, you know, you're in the trap.
But the way they can get you in the trap is with the passports.
And so that's what you've got to stop.
If you look at CBDCs, it's going to take the central banks a long time to get those up and running.
So, the thing, the hook that's going to drag you into the trap are the passports.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
No, I'm totally with you on that one.
So, where are you on the other cryptos, the non-CBDCs?
Do you think that, is Bitcoin a tool for freedom or is it actually secretly controlled by the cabal and we're going to get shafted by it?
So, I think the cryptocurrencies were inspired for a couple reasons, but one of them was to prototype the CBDCs.
So I considered them.
One thing I'll tell you about Mr. Global is Mr. Global is always prototyping everything all the time.
Right.
You know, they, they are great believers in just try stuff and see what happens.
So, so to me, cryptos were number one, um, uh, you know, was prototyping how to do the digital currencies.
And of course, the question is, once they come out with the CBDCs, do they let those die quietly on the vine, or will they let some of it coexist?
And there are multiple possibilities.
That's number one.
But number two, I think what they were going to do with the financial coup was so inflationary, they needed a way to get the general population putting all their money in things that weren't real assets so that they could, you know, because what they're trying to do is buy up all the land, all the real estate, all the natural resources and anything they can do to keep the general population, you know, buying digital assets
Protects them as they accumulate all the real assets.
Oh, that's... So all these things about these non-fungible tokens and things that they're encouraging us to buy, this actually is another trap.
It's designed to lure our money away from things that actually have real value.
Well, remember you're printing massive amounts of fiat currency and you want that money to go into digital assets that can just be created As opposed to run up the price of gold or the price of land.
So you've been able to keep the price of gold much lower than it would be otherwise by sucking all that money into crypto, into digital assets.
Right.
So does that mean you believe in gold still?
Because it's done so badly for the last decade, hasn't it?
Stayed where it was.
Well, no, if you look, so the going direct reset was voted on August 22nd, 2019.
Gold is up 20% since then, which is probably matching inflation in most places.
So it's held you even or done a little bit better.
So the S&P is up 54%.
Say the European markets are up a little bit less, 45%.
So equities have done much better.
You know, in bonds, you've lost against inflation.
So, the long treasury has maybe been about 2% and, you know, after inflation, you're down.
So, you would have been best in equities.
Now, crypto is highly volatile and I see it as more speculation than an investment.
I mean, the farmland is up 7% this year.
So, farmland has got to be one of In the last, since going direct, I would have much had good farmland and water than most equities.
Yeah.
Yes.
But you can't just go out and buy farmland, can you?
I mean, it's quite...
Well here, it's interesting, I spoke at a crypto conference a long time ago, it was 2017, and at that time the largest landowners in America, if you took the largest, the top 100 landowners, private landowners as of 2008, by 2016 they had doubled their holdings in land.
And what everybody at that conference, when I explained this, realized is they had poured all of their money into crypto and they own no land, while the richest, most powerful people in the world were running around buying up all the land.
Whoa!
Right.
So, now, if you look at how they've used crypto, because they've used crypto in a variety of different ways, you know, and you can run pumps and dumps and make fantastic amounts of money pumping and dumping it.
Um, you know, cause it's a speculative device and, and you can speculate and make a lot of money, but the reality is, um, you know, and, and you can use it to launder.
If you're trying to launder money to people and you want it, you know, it's, it's somebody said, Oh, Hitler would have loved this secret money for secret armies.
You know, so cryptos has a lot of different roles that work for the spooky guys, but here's, here's the problem.
Um, And this is a problem with all money systems.
You're playing on your enemy's platform.
Your enemy controls.
Mr. Global controls the satellites.
Mr. Global controls the cables under the sea.
Mr. Global controls, you know, the backbone of the internet.
You're playing on your enemy's territory and ultimately your enemy controls.
And I did a very serious due diligence in Bitcoin and came to the conclusion it's about as secure as, you know, putting my cougar ants out on my garden table.
You know, as a practical matter, it's, you know, it's not secure.
So, so the question is how you deal with that.
One of the most exciting ideas I ever heard, and I'll pass this on, we're trying to do something about it, but we need everybody to.
Bill Binney, who was head technical guy, top technical guy at the NSA.
After he retired, you know, sort of started warning everybody about what the NSA was up to.
But one of the things Bill Binney said is, we should integrate into all the homeschooling curriculum, cryptography, and teach all the kids how to do homegrown encryption systems.
And he said, If a community has 20 to 100 kids just constantly making new systems and we're circulating them around, he said, it'll drive the system crazy.
They won't be able to deal with it.
That's an ambitious thing.
Because I think whatever we do, we're going to need physical and we're going to need digital.
You never want to be in an all digital financial system because that is not a financial system.
It's a control system.
Yes.
No, I see that.
We have to decentralize control of the currency.
There's two things we have to do.
We have to have a human civilization that encourages empathy, and we have to decentralize the money premium.
Those are the two things we must do.
And I think part of doing that is realizing that money is just a tool and what is real is the land, the energy, the food, the technology.
We need to be as sophisticated about managing and having access to real assets as Mr. Global.
How?
So I'm not saying don't, if you want to invest in crypto, that's great.
But remember, What you invest in is what you build.
We build our world by investing in the world we want to live in.
So if you have all your money in crypto while the local farmers are going bankrupt, then you're going to eat Bill Gates' synthetic food.
And you'll be able to buy a lot of it because you'll be rich, but so what?
A lot of bugs you can buy.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
So Bill Gates is buying Farmland.
He's the number one owner of Farmland in America.
Yeah.
Because he wants to own what's real.
So, you know, you need to have your perspective and you need to put crypto where it belongs in the map.
So I'll tell you one last story, which I always tell.
When I was I got into 11 years of litigation with the Department of Justice in the United States, and it was a very immersive process because they constantly tried to falsify things against us.
They would falsify evidence, they would make accusations that they couldn't back up and weren't true, and this went on and on and on.
Anyway, it took 11 years.
What happened was when in one of the toughest waves, they tried to cut off all my money.
So they tried to cut off my credit.
They tried to cut off my assets or my availability of my assets.
They tried to cut off my income.
They tried to cut my reputation away where I couldn't make more money.
And at the time I sat down and realized that I had lent or given, gifted to friends and family a quarter of a million dollars.
And my friends and family got together and said, well, I guess she needs the money back.
And over the next 11 years, James, it was that $250,000 that trickled back.
And at the end of the 11 years, when I settled the litigation, I did a calculation and I realized I had been repaid or gifted $250,000 almost to the same dime.
It was like a giant karma wheel.
You put the $250,000 out the people bank, and then the people bank sent it back.
And I will tell you, if it wasn't for that money, I would have died during that period.
I would never have made it.
And so when I won the litigation and I got a huge amount of money in on a settlement, I put most of it back out on the people bank because I realized, you know something?
It's the one source of resources they can't cut off.
Yeah.
So when people ask me what I invest in, you know, I believe in diversification, but then my number one investment is people.
I'm a people investor because people are the, you know, and, and what I'm looking for are people who don't turn you in.
Right?
Yeah.
That's your family.
Your family of the people are not going to turn you in.
I think what you say certainly applies.
If there's one good thing to have emerged from these horrible times that we're living through, I mean, I don't think, you know, if you were kind of floating on a cloud and looking around which era to live in, I don't think you'd have chosen now.
I mean, any more than you'd have chosen sort of Rome in about 400 AD, would you?
It's just not, wouldn't be the thing.
But one good thing that's come out of this time is that I think we are reconnecting with our fellow human beings.
I've never felt that kinship with my fellow humans as I have on the marches, on the protest marches, on the anti-vaccine marches.
How optimistic are you?
Are we going to win this thing?
So I believe we're going to win it, but I also think that many people could die on the way.
Yeah.
It was funny.
I just had a wonderful conversation with C.J.
Hopkins.
Do you know who he is?
Yes, I do.
I must do a podcast with him.
Yeah, yeah.
You two together would be wonderful.
And so C.J.
said to me, we were filming, and he said, you know, if we lose, what is that world going to be like?
And I said, you know, C.J., I have no idea.
I've never even thought about it.
It never occurred to me I would be alive in that world.
Sorry, I was going to say, it doesn't really occur that I'm going to be alive in even the good outcome.
Because I mean, as you say, there are going to be a lot of deaths.
How do you think people are going to die?
Is it going to be war or the effects of the vaccine or what?
So I think the number one killer is fear.
Yeah.
So the most sickness I've seen and I hear about is caused by fear.
People being afraid, getting into fear.
I think mind control is killing a huge number of people because they proceed to make bad decisions and they proceed to access, you know, healthcare that kills them.
So I would say fear is number one.
Mind control is number two.
I think we've been part, for the last 20 years, of something I call the Great Poisoning, where toxicity levels go up and immune systems fall, so immune suppression.
And if you look at what we know, there's a lot about these vaccines, COVID-19 vaccines, that we don't know.
But if you look at what we absolutely know, facts, science, it's an acceleration of the great poison.
Toxicity up.
I mean, first of all, you have serious circulatory problems as a result of spike protein.
But then you have toxicity up and immune suppression, and people are going to die, not necessarily of, you know, blood clotting from the spike protein.
People are dying from that, but it's not just that.
The immune suppression will cause their immune systems to literally collapse, and then they're going to get cancer, they're going to get shingles, they're going to, you know, they'll have a blossoming of all the pathogens that get us when our immune system You know, diminishes or dies.
Yes, what you're saying certainly gels with what I've been reading.
I mean, do you believe chemtrails are real?
Are they a thing?
So, here's what I know.
In 1997-98, I concluded that I couldn't understand what was going on in the economy from reading the statistics.
And so I decided to just start traveling around America and then I moved to Tennessee and I would have to drive back and forth to Washington once.
And I just drove all over the country.
I ended up putting over 500,000 miles on three Nissan Pathfinders.
And what I saw all across the country were planes spraying.
They were spraying back and forth and back and forth.
And they were spraying in patterns which, you know, they weren't going anywhere.
They were just spraying crisscross.
And over time they got more, you know, they'd spray above the cloud cover.
And I'll never forget taking off in 2010.
I was in Zurich on business and listening to a money manager yap at me about how Switzerland was wonderful, not like America.
And I took off, I was flying Swiss Air back to the United States.
We took off and broke through the cloud cover.
And there above the cloud cover in a country that is the most environmentally conscious in the planet, the planes are just flying crisscross spraying.
So what I can tell you is I've observed spraying all over the world.
And what I will tell you is, I can't tell you how expensive it is to literally spray a whole cover over the whole planet.
You're talking about trillions of dollars.
But, Sue, how do you get a job flying these planes?
Who gives the...?
I mean, there must be businesses that... How does it work?
How can they do this stuff without...?
So, I'm assuming... I'm assuming... Well, here's what I would recommend.
There is a Solerian report.
It's one of the most popular.
Amy Benjamin is a former Department of Justice attorney who now teaches in New Zealand.
And she did a peer review article on secrecy and how secrecy is engineered.
And I'll never forget it.
Lawrence Wilkerson, who used to be PAL's chief of staff, emailed me and he said, I'm on the peer review for this new journal paper.
I can't tell you what the name is or who the author is.
It's on secrecy.
And it's fantastic.
He said, you have to read it.
I will let you know as soon as I can tell you, you know, when it's published.
And then when it was published, he emailed me and he said, okay, it's Amy Benjamin and here it is.
And I read it.
It was fantastic.
And she got on and she was able to explain, you know, and this is for people who've been normies, right?
Yes.
She's able to explain how all this happened and you didn't notice.
Yeah.
You know, because if you look at how secrecy is engineered, it's quite interesting.
And I, I have spent, um, if you go to our missing money website, I have spent with a lot of other great people collecting and studying how, The US government has basically managed the financial management outside of the constitution, outside of the financial management laws and outside of the financial regulation.
And it's now adopted an administrative policy that says we're just going to ignore all of it and have secret budgets and to hell with you.
And that's a written policy that's described.
And so there's a tremendous, you know, I'm happy We took a lot of the information, published it in hard copy.
I'm happy to send it all to you if you want.
But what I would do is I would start with Amy Benjamin's interview on secrecy and how as a legal matter, this, you know, we've been able to, it's like, you know, the story of the husbands who have two families, you know, so he's got a family in one town and another family and they don't know about each other.
And he's trying to finance them both out of one job.
Yeah.
That's exactly what the US government is like.
Right.
So, um, anyway, but, but, and if you, if you trace the story of how the money, you know, basically they've been able to siphon trillions off out of the, out of the budgets and out of the tax base, you know, and, and move it secretly, you realize, oh, you know, they can finance a parallel civilization.
If you look at, It's quite amazing how, you know, it's quite amazing that we are still functioning given how much money has been and assets have been shifted out.
It's quite remarkable.
Do you think that there's any possibility that these people aren't human?
Or not necessarily that they're not human, but they are controlled by forces that are not human, that are demonic or alien.
So I'm absolutely convinced.
I'm a Christian.
Yeah.
And I'm absolutely convinced that we are dealing with very powerful interdimensional intelligence.
Yeah.
So angels and demons or, you know, evil, good and evil.
So there are very powerful interdimensional forces and all sorts of interdimensional phenomena happening.
And one of my big concerns about artificial intelligence and the digital systems is they give that intelligence the ability to operate in the material world without a physical body.
And that's pretty scary to me.
How do you mean?
Well, if you have digital systems, And you have software that's managed with AI.
Yeah.
I believe that the interdimensional talents and intelligence can interact with the AI.
Right.
Yes.
And so interdimensional intelligence, even though it doesn't have a physical body, can proceed to manage and control.
And if you can get that AI with cellular technology to interact and influence people, then you can start to have very dramatic impact on people in the material world.
Now, if you understand demonic possession, they already can, but that's a lot of hard work.
AI gives you a lot more leverage.
Yes.
No, I mean, I've become a Christian since going down the rabbit hole and realizing what is going on.
And there's an extraordinary correlation between The powers that be and kind of Luciferian worship and stuff.
I mean, have you noticed that?
Yes.
Yes.
And it's gotten to me, it's gotten much worse in the last 20 or 30 years.
Um, what I was going to tell you is, you know, one of the big issues is are, are we dealing?
So I do think there's such a thing as interdimensional intelligence and it's very powerful, but, Are we dealing with people?
We're dealing with people leading us who think of themselves as a separate species.
So they literally think of themselves as a separate, and they view us as livestock.
Yeah.
Or something like we view livestock.
Yeah.
But the question is, are they genetically very different?
And there are different theories.
One is, crypto-terrestrial, so that you have a different species coexisting on earth.
And they really control.
And then others are, you know, they come from different times or different planets.
And I, you know, my problem with all the different theories, and I've, I've tried to study and learn them all, is I've never met any one of those theories that couldn't also be explained by mind control.
So, You know, there are various people who say, oh, you know, those ETs were just really guys from Langley who were, you know, doing whatever they were doing and you were mind controlled.
And that's a screen memory.
And I, you know, I have no way of saying that, well, that's true or not true.
I mean, one of the reasons I hate to go through all the different theories in the Mr. Global construct is, you know, you go into a world which is so, You know, there's just not enough hard evidence to prove.
Now, if you go back through history, what you will see in history is clearly we're interacting with civilizations which have very advanced technology.
And that's been happening all throughout history.
One of my favorite places in the world is Uluru in Australia.
And when you go to Uluru, what you realize is, oh, you know, People have been flying in and out of here in anti-gravity machines for a long time.
Right.
But that doesn't mean that they're from a different planet, and that doesn't mean that they aren't human.
Right.
Okay.
They could be, like, lost races.
Like, I've been told that one of the rabbit holes I must go down is the Tartarian civilization.
The giants.
Oh, isn't that interesting?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, there's a very funny story.
If you go to the Secret Space Program 2015 conference, the ending panel, at one hour and 40 minutes, I tell the story of the U.S.
West Navy trying to persuade me that, that aliens exist and live among us, which happened to me in 1998.
So you can, you can go, it's pretty funny.
Cause they, there was a group in and around the Navy that tried to persuade me that aliens exist and live among us.
And, And I was convinced they were trying to, you know, sort of get me on the cover of the National Enquirer.
Right, because there is that thing, isn't there?
It's like with David Icke.
There's a discussion about, did he mention the lizard-headed people to kind of preserve himself, to add that element of kookiness to protect himself from the serious stuff he was saying?
Well, here's the thing.
If you're an intelligence agency, what I've been doing for 20 or 30 years is pointing out that they're stealing what's now $21 trillion and more.
And you don't want anybody really realizing, because that's $65,000 per person, right?
Yeah.
Right.
So you don't want the American people coming and asking for their $65,000 per person back.
Right.
So if you can move it out of real money space into entertainment space.
Yes.
Right.
So all you have to do is throw an ET and we're over here in Steven Spielberg entertainment space.
Yeah.
Right.
You're in Alex Jones territory, which is, yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Or my favorite one is somebody asked me, there was a new sort of effort at disclosure.
What do you think that's about?
And I think, you know, what it's about is they're saying, oh, well, you know, the 21 trillion we took, We spent it on some really scary stuff, and we needed the money to deal with this really scary stuff, so just trust us, you don't want to know.
Yeah.
It's interesting, isn't it, what you say about fear.
I've recently got into the Psalms.
I've started learning Psalms.
Oh, wonderful!
My favorite is Psalm 91.
Thou shalt not be afraid.
Oh, yes, yes!
For the terror by night, nor the arrow that flyeth by day.
Anyway, what's interesting about it is that the Bible is very clear that fear is the enemy.
It's absolutely clear on this.
Yes.
Yes.
So here's the question.
What world do you want to invent?
What world do you want to create?
So scripture says faith is the substance of things hoped for, but not yet seen, which means it's your faith that creates, you know, I think of it like building a cathedral.
So I love cathedrals.
Yes.
So your faith creates the raw cement that you use to build the block that you use to build the cathedral, right?
Yeah.
And so you need the ability to create that faith.
And you do it with your love.
Your love is the source of your power.
Now, you can't do that if you're in fear.
If you're in fear, you're attracting this thing that's going to kill you, right?
Oh, I can be killed, and I'm going to be killed, and I'm attracting the thing that's going to kill me.
In other words, you're creating your own death.
Also, I believe, I don't know where you are on this, I believe that the demons feed on your negative energy.
They feed on your fear.
And demons are real.
Yes.
No doubt.
So there's this wonderful interview I did with Thomas Meyer, who's an anthroposophist.
And what he says is that when you tell a lie, it creates an elemental being.
who feeds on that lie and becomes a constituency for that lie.
It's the most amazing interview because I realized, oh yeah, there's, you know, when you try and break through lie, you run into this force field and it's just so, it's exactly feels like that, that we've, every time we tell a lie, we create these beings and then these beings are like, You know, a little lobbyist for the lie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll just tell you what, I've got myself a camera and you've probably got things to do, but I spoke to this, I'm very curious about other religions because I want to know, you know, I mean, like, our God, our Christian God, what's his view on, you know, Hindus and stuff?
Anyway, I spoke to this lovely Hindu woman who told me, we're talking about, what are they called?
Near-death experiences.
And this woman's relative... This wasn't Anita Mirani, was it?
No, no.
You wouldn't know this person at all.
Her husband's great-aunt... Her husband's great-aunt died, and she was actually lying on the funeral pyre when somebody noticed her toe twitch.
And she'd been dead for two days, or so they thought, and she came back.
And she said, don't do bad things.
And she's still alive and she's had a life of absolute hell.
Her husband died, her children died, the person she remarried beat her.
She's just had absolute hell.
But obviously what she's done is she's been, well, I mean, I would guess that she's been like expiating her past sins in this, you know, she's come back from the dead and she's, I think that, I think, and look, what I'm saying is, We've got, we have to do good things.
We have to, we have to, we have to tell the truth.
We have to.
Right.
So, so I would say it this way.
Our soul is immortal.
And whatever we do in this life, you have to, you have to move through it and you have to contribute understanding that that's real.
Your soul is immortal.
So there's no shortcut.
You know it's and what you'll find if you if you look at how the world's sort of separating right now it's the people who believe their soul is immortal and that what they do counts and and people who think well you know they they they're in a hyper materialist framework and they think I've got three years so I should do whatever I can do to you know because it's convenient and Yes.
And so if you tell me, if you tell me the story of I am good, then it's okay for me to euthanize this person because, you know, it's on the, it's on the CD schedule that I give them this drug and so I can pretend I'm not killing them.
Yeah.
Spoiler, it ain't, it ain't, it ain't enough.
Right, right.
Katharine, it's been so good talking to you.
I'm absolutely thrilled to get you on the show.
I was going to ask you what people can do to protect themselves, but actually, I think if they go to Solari Report, your website, you've got lots of advice, haven't you?
There's a tremendous amount of advice, but it's important to know that each person is unique.
In a world of individual sovereignty where we decentralize power, each person is unique.
So what you would do, and what I do with my money is different than what you should do with your money.
So each one of us has to take responsibility and work it out for ourselves according to their purpose.
So we try not to tell people what to do, just make accessible to them all the sort of information they need to figure it out themselves and make their own decisions.
But one thing I will tell you, The best navigation tool I've ever found is prayer.
So I really believe all intelligence is accessible to us through prayer.
And it's a wonderful navigation tool because we're in a period where there is so much uncertainty and so much risk.
That it is, number one, there's not enough time and money to protect yourself from the risk of the world, but there is enough time and money to do what the big guy wants you to do.
So if you can stay in alignment with the power of love, then you will be protected until it's time for you to leave, and then you'll leave, because that's when you're supposed to leave.
That's just the best advice.
How long have we got, by the way?
How long have we got?
No, I mean, how long have we got before the shit hits the fan?
The shit has already hit the fan.
Right.
We're in the shit hit the fan now.
Right.
But I suppose they can't introduce central bank digital currencies because they haven't got them in place yet.
So we've got that consolation.
Right.
But they can hook you into the trap of the passports.
So the passports has to be stopped this year.
Right.
That's our mission.
Okay.
So, trust God.
Pray.
Use cash and coin.
Use cash and coin.
Get everybody you know to use cash and coin for heaven's sakes.
You know, even if you can't do it every day, do it on Friday.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Catherine, thank you.
I'll put your website at the bottom.
And may I remind my beloved listeners and viewers to support me on Patreon and Subscribestar.
And my website, dellingpoleworld.com, I think he's not working at the moment.
But anyway, yeah, Patreon and Subscribestar.
But they can still support you on Patreon.
So I want to make a plug.
I do this whenever on the show.
I have to embarrass you.
It is absolutely important.
Brian Garish of UK Calm calls it the old media and the new media.
So the corporate media is the old media?
We must, if we're going to navigate this period, we must have the new media.
And the only way we're going to have the new media is if we fund the new media.
So one of the most important things you can do after using cash is give some of your cash to the new media, and that's you.
So I just want to put in a plug that every time you give money on your Patreon account, you're striking at the heart of the machinery.
It's a blow to the machinery, so they should give more money to you.
What a lovely way of ending the show.
No, well, you know, I'm an investment banker.
We get the world we finance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's been a joy.
May you prosper.
Bye.
Likewise.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
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