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July 28, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:11:44
Dr Sam White
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Welcome to the Deling Pod with me James Delingpoll and I'm And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
I've got Dr. Sam White.
Now, I think in these extraordinary times, There has been a severe shortage of heroes, but one of those heroes is definitely, definitely Sam.
Sam, I really salute your courage.
You've done what I think so many other doctors ought to have done and haven't, which is you've sacrificed your career for the truth, haven't you?
Almost as if I didn't really think it through properly, James, actually, yeah.
Always the best way, mate.
Yeah yeah and so I should say I've never really been terribly interested in social media and I think at the time my video which went viral was released I had about 11 followers and rarely used Twitter so it was a big shock to me that a million people saw it.
A million?
That's pretty good.
Yeah, it is, but a million people were never meant to see it because a million people were never meant to be awakened to another dialogue.
To what has been a modern narrative for around 16 months now.
Yeah, and of course it's that which has got me into trouble.
Let's put you in context.
I want to know, first of all, how old you are, how long you've been a doctor, what you went through, what your ambitions were when you were younger.
Stuff like that.
So to put you in context, I mean, you were a GP in a GP practice or what?
Yeah, so I've been a GP 11 years.
I've been a doctor for 17 years and since my early teenage years, I'd always wanted to be a doctor.
My dad was in the ambulance service for 30 years and my mum was a nurse for more than 30 years, I think.
And I think I watched far too many ER episodes back in the day, you know, when I was still 13, 14.
And so it always been my ambition to be a doctor.
I initially started off training to do surgery and did various rotations as a junior doctor, and then decided that a role as a generalist would be more suited to me, given how sub-specialized medicine has become these days.
I also, alongside when I was first qualified as a GP, helped run a palliative care hospice for about three years and I also worked as well in the emergency department.
So February last year, prior to the outbreak, I joined a really nice practice, semi-rural, had traditional values of primary care, whereby the patients would see the same doctor each time.
So I had really great colleagues, lovely patients who were all, welcome to the village, Dr. White, this is really nice to have you here.
You know, it's a lovely job.
And then, of course, shortly after that, it was announced that there was a pandemic and NHS England told us we had to close our doors and do everything that we could via telephone.
So overnight, things changed.
I just thought at the time, well, this is a pandemic, never done this before.
Let's do what we need to do.
And I went to volunteer at what was the Community Red Hub, which was to assess people who might have COVID.
The first time I went, I remember it well because it was a good Friday last year.
And this was at the heights of, you know, the beginning of lockdown.
This was when everyone was losing their jobs and their businesses and their livelihoods.
And yet I didn't see a single patient that day.
Okay.
The next time I went back there a few weeks later, I didn't see a single patient with respiratory symptoms.
It was merely people who might have a fever, have a temperature.
Yeah.
So I spoke to the clinical director and I said, look, we need to be clear here.
This should be for people who might have COVID really.
And after that, they got locum doctors and nurse practitioners there to staff it.
But the issue I had all along was the doors were closed and yet the GP in the community should be the patient's first point of contact with the health service.
And at the same time, we were denied access to any treatments to help people.
And if you think about the role of a primary care doctor, one of the central roles of a doctor in the community should be to look after patients in the community and stop them ever having to go to hospital wherever possible.
Okay.
And it was clear from early on that we had become very unscientific.
We live in a post-science, post-truth era now, whereby we've had this continuous modern narrative.
Okay, so when my video went viral, the accusations that have come back at me are that it's false information, when really it's just a reflection of scientific theory based on research.
Yeah, don't get ahead of yourself yet Sam, so I'll lay it out slowly.
So, Some of these terms I'm not familiar with.
I think there's a lot of jargon that has crept into the medical profession in the last few years.
I mean, what is primary care, for example?
Well, that's essentially a general practice.
So, you know, the gatekeepers really to the NHS and the patient's first point of contact with the NHS.
It shouldn't be, unless something goes wrong, the emergency department.
Everything should be via your GP.
Right.
And one of our main roles, of course, is to pick up the early stages of cancer, for instance.
Yes.
Yeah.
You know, things like that.
Okay.
So, and I'm old enough to remember an era where one did have a family doctor and, you know, you knew the doctor's name, you saw him socially as well, you know, in the same way you'd see the vicar socially, you know, whether it was the village fete or, you know, you knew who your doctor was and you had a relationship with them and they looked after your children when you had children and the doctor would watch them growing up and then things changed and it seems to me that the cult of the NHS
became more of a thing.
I don't remember NHS being kind of letters engraved on our heart when I was growing up or for most of my life.
It was only sort of a recent development.
So you wanted to be a doctor in this system for all sorts of good reasons.
I mean, I imagine you wanted to make a difference.
You wanted to make people well, not become a bureaucrat.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, and yeah, sorry.
You carry on.
Tell me about that.
Well, if you want to talk bureaucracy, I think that's one of the things that's It's been a real failing of how politics has meddled with primary care, probably since the Blair Brown era and the new contracts came in for GPs.
And obviously we've seen a lot of very good GPs retire early out of frustration with the system.
And my own frustration with the system became that instead of looking after patients how I felt appropriate and they would feel appropriate, it was more of a tick box exercise.
You know, patient comes in, a box pops up, says, this patient needs this doing, give them this drug, add this drug, do this blood test.
And it's not necessarily what the patient wants.
And it's not a fulfilling role for a doctor either.
And I sort of chatted to you earlier about how I've moved into functional medicine, which suits my style of medicine a lot more, which is more about getting... We'll get to that.
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, because I think we'll have a chat about the general NHS, the right way to be a doctor and stuff.
I think that would be an interesting second part.
I just wanted to put it, because also, I imagine there may be American viewers as well who won't necessarily know all the terms.
So if you don't mind, I'll just take you through it sort of slowly.
So you became a doctor for, yeah, you wanted to make a difference and you're a nice person and you actually wanted to make people better rather than tick boxes.
By the way, that's interesting.
I think what you're describing there also applies in America.
Increasingly, your latitude for personal decision-making, judgment, has been taken away from you by this monolithic system.
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah.
And they have their insurance tick boxes to go through as well, of course.
But I did a podcast a couple of weeks ago with Professor Peter McCulloch, and they have a lot more autonomy now when it comes to looking after patients with COVID, i.e.
they can look after patients with COVID, whereas we can't.
Yeah, yeah.
That is one of the scandals we're going to come to.
So, Easter, what do you say, Easter Monday last year was when it all kicked off and you found yourself running these largely empty clinics, seeing these people who hadn't really got COVID and yet the country was pretending that it was a major problem.
Is that right?
Yeah, I only did two sessions there, James.
That was enough for me to say I'm not doing this again because it didn't seem like a good use of my time to take me away from my own patients to go and work there to see women perhaps who traveled a long way to this center with pelvic pain because that clearly wasn't COVID.
Yeah, that's not true.
So When did you... because, as you know, for the last 18 months...
Britain and pretty much every other country on earth has been told constantly by the government and by the mouthpieces of government that this is an, I mean, I think Boris described it as the biggest crisis since the second world war, that this is an unprecedented health crisis in our lifetimes, that this is kind of Spanish flu mark two, that this is a deadly killer and we've got to take all manner of measures to deal with it.
Is that what you believed at first?
For a very, very short period, I have to say.
I knew that masks, for instance, were a fallacy.
Masks in the community were far more likely to do harm.
And then, of course, I realized the testing methodology.
And it's not just that it's a PCR, because PCR can be a good test when used for the right purposes.
But what you cannot do is have indiscriminate use of PCR.
It's a diagnostic tool for a clinician to use alongside clinical assessment.
Now, if your doors are locked and patients can't come in, you can't do a clinical assessment.
And it didn't matter if you could do, because you couldn't prescribe them anything either.
Yes, that's true.
Well, because I imagine this is a question that's puzzling a lot of us non-doctors.
Yeah.
How many doctors do you think know that this is not a kind of, it's not a major killer?
Because look, you can look at the actual age-adjusted mortality figures for England and Wales, going back to the 1930s, I think.
And you can see very clearly that there has not been a dramatic spike in deaths, such as you would expect if this were a kind of unprecedented health disaster.
So the evidence is out there.
So what was the first indication for you that something was not quite right?
Partly from what I was seeing and hearing in the community, also from my colleagues who were still in A&E, one who said to me, we're waiting for these COVID patients yet to turn up, and they haven't.
And that might have been around the time that you saw doctors and nurses doing TikTok videos, not necessarily in this country, but I'm sure that amused a lot of people who were losing their businesses at that time.
But Yes, you're completely right.
The numbers that you need to look at when assessing is there a pandemic is, has there been an increase in hospitalizations and has there been a significant increase in deaths as a result of that?
And that's not what we've seen compared to other years.
Perhaps a bad flu season, we might say, But not when we consider, you know, this in the larger picture, going back many years, of which there is data.
But when we'll come on to what's happened with my own suspension and, you know, prosecution by the General Medical Council, but I should say that the majority of complaints about my viral video have come from medical professionals.
Right.
Okay.
And so I've since sat on international round committees and, you know, discussions with top scientists and doctors who are awake, if you like, to what is going on.
But my biggest critics have been other physicians in this country.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
So, but So you had anecdotal evidence from people working in hospitals that what there were not there were not the numbers coming because we were with the general public were told that the NHS was in danger of being overwhelmed that the beds were filling up with COVID patients.
Is that not true?
I didn't see that, no.
And the local hospital were reporting high beds occupancy rates.
Sorry, high rates of free beds, when usually they've got ambulances queuing outside of A&E.
And that was about the time that we suspect that hospitals were empty and patients with potential respiratory infection were discharged who were vulnerable back to their nursing and residential home.
And we've seen that spike in those cases of deaths among nursing and residential home residents, which still awaits audit and investigation as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, there was that period when Matt Hancock effectively ordered the hospitals to send these elderly patients back to their care homes.
And we know now that this led to lots of people You know, the plague going like the riff through care homes and killing lots of people.
So we saw that.
But just to make it clear, are you saying that there was never a stage where NHS beds in hospitals were being so full that ambulances had to queue upside with people lying in corridors and blah, blah, blah?
Was this all cooked up throughout?
I'm referring to the early phases of lockdown.
I'll be honest and say, I don't know what happened after sort of two or three months.
And I think now hospitals are probably busier than ever, catching up with work that was cancelled, elective operations, outpatient appointments, but also those with injuries.
As a result of being vaccinated as well.
Yeah.
Which, you know, we can talk about.
Or, you know, because we've never had a period in time where we perhaps had a pandemic, and then vaccinated straight into that.
So these variants tend to exist, like the Delta variant.
But like Professor Montagnier said, the worst thing you can do is to vaccinate only into a pandemic, because you can encourage higher rates of these mutant strains, if you like, within the community.
And of course, you're seeing now that people being admitted to hospital are largely vaccinated, and the government dismissing it simply on the basis that, well, the majority of the population are vaccinated anyway, and the vaccines were never 100% effective.
Which isn't reflective of the true picture of what's happening at all, as far as I'm concerned.
Again, I want to come on to the vaccines, but I want to go through it stage by stage, because I'm interested in your perspective as somebody on the so-called frontline, although I think that in itself is a term that's been abused, because it implies that being a doctor is like being an infantryman, and I'm not sure it ever was.
I mean, certainly not in the last 18 months, but that was part of the propaganda war that was being waged on the public.
Um, so you you saw little evidence in the early stages that people were Dropping like flies or anything like that.
Then tell me about the kind of the pressures you came under as a GP.
Because a lot of us are looking at this situation thinking, why are the doctors not speaking out?
Why are they reacting?
Why are they going along with this thing?
Are they seeing something that we haven't seen or are they just lying?
What's going on?
I think if you're an intensivist and you're working in ITU and certainly A&E now, you can be seeing the COVID pneumonitis and the very seriously ill COVID patients.
You shouldn't necessarily be seeing lots of respiratory infections at this time of year, although that seems to be happening as well.
But your perspective does vary according to what your specialty is.
And our biggest problem, I would say, in primary care was missing out on doing the usual work that we would have been doing, like picking up early cancers, like picking up early stages of heart disease and getting people referred.
The issue now for hospitals and primary care, even though I'm not able to be involved, is going to be one of catching up with missed diagnoses.
Yes, I can see that.
So I want to know what it was that you saw that was the straw that broke the camel's back?
Because you've given up your presumably pretty well-paid career and the thing that was always what you wanted to do.
You must have seen something pretty dramatic to do that.
So tell me the story leading up to that.
I think, so I first started to ask questions when I realised that testing was being done indiscriminately on asymptomatic people.
And I know, as a physician of, you know, 17 odd years, that you don't have an acute respiratory infection and not know about it.
Even if it's just man food, okay?
You've got symptoms, okay?
So there was never a need for an asymptomatic person, or indeed a symptomatic person, we'll come on to that, in the community to wear a mask or be subject to a test which could easily come back positive and then have absolutely no infection or significant viral load to transmit an infection onto somebody else.
And now we see, as of last month, the WHO say they do recommend testing in asymptomatics.
But that's taken them a while to cotton on to, you know, which is quite worrying.
Yes, just tell me that.
During your medical training, presumably it was a given that if you are asymptomatic, With it, which means having no symptoms, it effectively means you haven't got it.
You know, your immune system is dealing with it.
You're not going to transmit it to other people.
I mean, presumably that is a universal medical law.
There's no, there are no exceptions where you can transmit stuff asymptomatically.
Not when we talk about an acute respiratory illness like, you know, a SARS-type virus.
No, no, exactly.
You need to have symptoms to, you know, transmit an airborne virus, and that would include having yourself a significantly high viral load, and then the recipient, effectively, of that transmission would have to also have an immune system of that transmission would have to also have an immune system which wasn't immediately able to deal with So perhaps someone who's elderly or frail or on chemotherapy but someone who's fit and well
Might their innate immune system, the immune system you're born with, would most likely sort of mop that up fairly quickly and would be unaffected.
The other issue is that there would have been a lot of us who had a cross-immunity because of exposure to prior coronaviruses like SARS-CoV-1 at the turn of the century.
And that was completely overlooked as well.
Here's a question for you.
This stuff may seem obvious to you, but I think it's quite interesting for us non-medics.
So you've gone through medical school and I know that medical school you spend lots of time dressing up and wheeling trolleys through the streets for student rag week and you drink a hell of a lot but you do also have quite a heavy workload and you do learn loads of medical stuff and here's my question to you.
Given that every medical, every medic learns about stuff like asymptomatic transmission.
There's no such thing as asymptomatic transmission.
I mean, it's a bizarre thing, isn't it?
To imagine that when you haven't got a sniffle and a sore throat and stuff, that you can be ill without knowing it and you can be giving people this disease.
Yeah.
Why are so many doctors not calling bull on this?
Why are they not saying, hang on a second, this is just not true.
And we know about masks.
Masks don't work.
They don't stop transmission.
They don't protect you from, not unless they're a kind of medical grade surgical mask, which you change every, what, 40 minutes or something.
But otherwise, there's no point.
So why aren't they resisting?
Well, I think it's a difficult one for me to answer in terms of other doctors because I was, if you like, considered the oddball in the practice for ever thinking these things.
So people are looking at me saying, well, why hasn't he had his vaccination like we have, you know?
So it's quite difficult to answer, but I do think that A lot of doctors will be listening to a mainstream narrative and one which is also echoed in a lot of the medical journals as well.
And particularly if we talk about therapeutics that were considered early on.
As soon as Trump mentions HCQ works, of course, you would consider that a Trumpista, and that's not allowed in this country in any way, shape or form.
Yes.
And The Lancet and JAMA both published essentially fraudulent publications on HCQ and its effectiveness and had to be called out on it and do something quite unprecedented in In actually retracting those publications.
And now we have 200 publications showing the effectiveness of HCQ and doctors all over the world using it.
So I don't know why doctors in this country are not saying why can't we use it along with other therapeutics.
Other than the fact that for merely mentioning it in a video, I haven't prescribed any of these drugs because I haven't been able to access them at all.
But for merely mentioning it in a video, I now face trial by the GMC, questions about my mental health.
As a result, and well I'm actually hoping that, well we've asked that the trial by the GMC can be done publicly and so the members of the general public can tune in, because in actual fact the science is on our side in that sense.
And if we want to talk about masks, I know I'm jumping around a little bit, James, but not only do they not prevent transmission, particularly if you don't have any symptoms, but we've now got evidence, as we suspected, that in children especially, within minutes they're developing dangerously high levels of carbon dioxide retention.
And I theorize that our dental colleagues are going to be very busy over the next few years pulling out teeth because, of course, you're going to get a higher acidity level in the mouth.
And I do wonder whether long-term mask wearing, particularly cloth masks, in people who might be working shifts, you know, 11, 12 hours at a time in a warehouse and wearing a cloth mask, perhaps not changing it, are going to be picking up various types of new respiratory infections or lung disease, perhaps mold, you know, from the damp and the moisture.
And I think we're storing up a lot of trouble for the future just by that alone, before we even get on to the vaccine harms as well, which is a big one to overlook as a doctor in terms of what's happened.
I mean, even if you considered all these vaccines were effective, which they're not, You would have to question the idea of informed consent as a doctor, because that's one of the central tenets of being a doctor of modern medical practice.
You would have to also look at every aspect of the Nuremberg Code, which I've deliberately put up on my website alongside a copy of the Hippocratic Oath for members of the public to read, and say nearly every one of these ten You know, points in the Nuremberg Code, which we were a signatory to in 1947, for good reason, has been completely overlooked and dismissed.
Yes.
Yeah.
So when you were still a GP, I mean, you no longer work at your practice, do you?
No, I resigned earlier in the year.
In December, I said to my colleagues, I don't want any involvement in this vaccination program.
And that was based on my knowledge of the SARS-CoV-1 vaccination experiment in animals, which as you know, the animals developed something called antibody dependent enhancement, multiple organ failure and died.
So that was enough for me to say it's highly, highly immoral and unethical to have this huge, unprecedented experiment, allow patients to think that it's not an experiment, that it's fully approved, fully licensed, and at the same time, deny them access to proven safe therapeutics.
Yes.
Every aspect of that makes me so cross, James.
My colleagues are very nice.
They said, we understand.
You get paid to go to these sites to do the extra work for the vaccination.
So they were happy with that.
And then in January, basically, it got to the point where I couldn't sleep.
Because the narrative from the government and SAGE and all of those people was to vaccinate ever younger cohorts of people.
People, including children now we see, for the Pfizer vaccination, who had no risk of COVID and yet had potentially unlimited, unquantifiable risk from the vaccines.
Did you see, were you around long enough to see at first hand the effects of adverse reactions to vaccines or had you gone by them?
No, so I went off in February.
I didn't work the terms of my six months because I felt too anxious to be honest.
And as I said, I wasn't sleeping, I'll be honest there.
The things I saw were that people were not being asked simple questions beforehand like, have you already had COVID-19?
And in the case of one of my patients that happened to, he had, he had the vaccination and then he ended up in hospital.
And of course, the report comes back from the hospital, not as adverse reaction to vaccine, but a diagnosis of COVID-19.
And then what I was seeing was people in their 50s saying to me, oh, by the way, Dr. White, I felt really rough after that vaccine.
I was in bed for a week, you know, felt very flu-like and everything, but they were very tolerant of it.
They seemed to think that it was okay to have this preventative treatment and then to be in bed for a week afterwards, essentially with the illness.
That they were being prevented from having, supposedly, via this vaccine.
And I remember saying to this gentleman, why did you have it?
You know, you're in your 50s, you're fit and healthy.
Because I had no say over what was happening to my patients.
They were all registered with me, but they were being booked in and sent to these external sites.
So I didn't have the means to phone up 1,600 patients and say, please don't do this.
Partly because they would think I was crazy as well, going against the narrative.
But it seemed to be an acceptable thing just to be in bed for a week afterwards, and I don't think it is at all.
I mean, if you had COVID, as I did, I mean, I'm in my 50s, I certainly wasn't in bed for, you know, I had a couple of nights of sweat, you know, I soaked a t-shirt and I had a sore throat and I had sort of the dry, dry hacking cough for a period.
But I carried on working.
Tell me on that point, because I was very puzzled by this.
I mean, shocked even by this.
I got a letter from a sort of a medical center, not my GP practice, inviting me in for my COVID shot, no questions asked.
Okay, in my past, I've had a pulmonary embolism.
Yeah, I've had to be treated for that.
And I've already had COVID.
Now, tell me, shouldn't those two things have been taken into account before they just drag me in for a kind of routine, you know, get your shot?
Yeah, and that's exactly because of the stance I've taken, I'm hearing from a lot of people with similar backgrounds.
This week, a gentleman emailed me, very intelligent chap, and he asked his surgery at the time, should I be having this vaccination given that he has a particular um, blood disorder whereby he's more likely to form a clot.
Um, and if you don't know the mechanism of action of the spike protein, for instance, which clearly there wasn't an appreciation of that, he, he was told it's safe for him.
Um, he's now he's developed, you know, a clot in his leg and I suspect he's got, um, or will develop pulmonary hypertension.
And we can talk a little bit about that um But you, with your previous, I don't know if your pulmonary embolism was what's called provoked, i.e.
you had a risk... It was provoked.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I would still say it would be relatively contraindicated.
And given that you're perhaps fit and well anyway, other than that, and what we know now about the pro thromboembolic risks of the vaccine, there's no way you should have ever been told it's safe for you.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because we can broadly divide the vaccine injuries into hematological, so to do with the blood, or immune-mediated, so affecting the immune system, neurological, and one of the important ones when we consider younger people is cardiac, okay?
And people who want to listen to my podcast with Prof McCulloch, who's a cardiologist, is on my website, drsamwhite.com, and
He is seeing these patients, usually adolescent boys, young boys, more than women, who are having sky-high cardiac enzymes indicating injury to the heart, corresponding changes on their ECG, which measures the electrical activity of the heart, and a reduced pumping effect of the heart on their echo scans.
And he's saying, I don't know if this is going to be permanent in these young boys.
You know, and some of these young boys are ending up on heart failure medication as a result.
And that's now in the thousands, those numbers.
Okay.
So again, it's a similar question.
Are you the only GP who's aware of this stuff?
Does everyone else just, does nobody else look at yellow cards and VAERS reports or what?
Well, no, I'm not, but a lot will remain anonymous and will do so because of what's happened to me.
So the idea is obviously to make an example of me so that no one else dares come forward.
And I spoke to you via email about What the Royal College of GPs said in regard to Dr. Jane Barton, who was murdering people with morphine, who had gone to her hospital for rehabilitation.
So the idea is that they'd be there for a few weeks and then would go home.
They didn't actually strike her off.
She was allowed to retire.
And they had multiple reports about Shipman.
Harold Shipman, the doctor who murdered how many patients?
Over 300, over 300.
Right.
Yeah.
I've had an unblemished career.
I think in total, I've had three complaints from patients in 17 years, something like that, which is not very many at all.
And they were very trivial.
And yeah, one of them actually apologised to me afterwards, which she didn't need to do.
It's not, the GMC is not there to, you know, their mantra is to protect patients and guide doctors.
It doesn't seem to be doing that over the last 16 months.
It doesn't seem to be protecting patients or guiding doctors.
And when we come back to this issue with Dr. Barton, the Royal College of GPs said that Whistleblowers need to feel empowered and protected to be able to come forward about systemic failings.
And I think we've got a profound systemic failing in the health service at the moment.
And yet my whistleblowing has resulted in a ton of, you know, slanderous accusations.
You know, reports of me giving out misleading information for merely quoting VAERS, Yellow Card and the European reporting system.
Yes.
Have you heard, I had a whistleblower from a GP practice in the north, she was a receptionist but she obviously had access to lots of information about patients.
Yeah.
She told me that Her, the doctors in her practice, when anxious patients called in after adverse reactions, the doctor's first priority was to assure them that these reactions had nothing to do with the jabs.
Have you heard of that going on?
Yeah, I have and a few people have emailed me and shown me text message responses that they've received because you can text message a patient now from their computer system To reassure them that it can't possibly be due to the vaccination.
And that might be born out of the fact that what I warned about initially was we don't know enough about how these vaccines work to be able to say how we would manage people when something goes wrong.
Okay, and that's a real issue because these patients may be presenting to their GP or to hospital with vague symptoms or very obvious symptoms, it varies, but us not necessarily know how to deal with them.
There's a preliminary report actually which is quite interesting.
That regard to you talking about having previously had a PE, so that's a blood clot on the lungs.
One doctor started looking more in depth at this because he was finding that his patients were saying that they had reduced exercise tolerance, you know, they were previously able to walk to his surgery and then couldn't.
So he began doing research looking at a blood test called the D-dimer, which you probably would have had done back when you were diagnosed initially, which is a blood test that gives you an indication if someone is having a blood clot.
And what he found is that within one week of vaccination, around 65% of patients are showing high levels of this D-dimer.
Okay.
But they're not necessarily showing up as having obvious blood clots.
And the blood clots are not necessarily happening in the big vessels, okay?
They're happening in the microcirculation.
So they could be missed on a scan, or they could be missed by a clinical diagnosis.
Yet, over time, they will have clinical impact and clinical significance.
Oh, do you mean like a sort of unexploded bomb waiting to go off?
Yeah, yeah, I mean that you actually, it's happening in the microvasculature, so not necessarily picked up on all of the scans that would be requested, and happening in these small vessels but to enough of an extent to cause a difference in gas exchange so that the patient gets short of breath, fatigued, and then it's going to put a strain on the heart as well.
So they develop problems like heart failure two or three years later.
Which would have been an issue for you if you'd not been diagnosed and treated with presumably blood thinning medication at the time.
Yes.
I mean, I had the expensive one.
I had Riveroxaban rather than the blood thinner where you've got it, where you've got to.
Go in for checks all the time.
My doctor couldn't resist telling me how expensive the treatment was, because I thought, bloody hell, given that it was provoked, and it was provoked by surgery, and they hadn't given me shotting stuff beforehand, so you know.
Heparin, yeah.
Yeah, so heparin would have saved me.
Sam, you strike me as the kind of GP I would love to have had, somebody who actually gives patients a bespoke treatment depending on their particular needs, which I think all doctors should do.
Oh, tell me briefly about, you mentioned hydroxychloroquine.
I'm presuming you're also a fan of ivermectin.
Tell me about that.
I've actually spoke to Dr. Teslori a few days ago and a couple of weeks ago I went to her lecture because she's done a complex review of all of the literature on ivermectin.
So ivermectin should be a very cheap drug, around three dollars per tablet.
Unfortunately in this country not only can we not use it, but it's what's referred to as a special order.
So, unless that was changed by the NHS in terms of their purchasing power, it would be a very, very expensive drug, even if I was to say be able to give it to you on a private prescription.
Okay.
Now, one of the outstanding things when Dr. Laurie was presenting to us, for me, was that some of the trials involving ivermectin were stopped early due to ethical reasons, okay?
Now this is fascinating, okay?
So the ethical reasons were that the doctors and researchers couldn't continue to have an untreated control group and thereby allow those patients to continue to suffer and potentially die.
Okay, so compare that with what we see in this country.
Which is basically kicking the can down the road by requesting yet another experiment regarding ivermectin.
And I'm fearful, I don't know, I'm fearful that they'll do with it what they did with HCQ last year in the Lancet and JAMA to fit their vaccine-only agenda.
So we exceeded the threshold to know that ivermectin works and works really well.
We're talking about an 86% reduction in hospitalizations.
It's incredible.
And I don't know if you saw Dr. Pierre Khoury yelling at Congress saying, you know, hundreds and thousands of lives could have been saved if we'd been able to use this drug.
But that was, you know, gold dust, really.
But last year, we knew enough to be able to say to the general public in the UK, we can give you ivermectin and we can give it to you safely.
But that would have prevented the emergency use appropriation and authorisation of these vaccines.
And that was clearly the agenda instead, wasn't it?
So yes, so am I right in thinking that both HCQ and Ivermectin, I mean, they're generic drugs now.
They've been used so often and they're completely safe and as safe as any drug possibly can be.
You can get them over the counter in a lot of countries.
Ivermectin is an antiparasitical drug.
Even at kind of high doses, it doesn't seem to have any ill effects.
Why do you think that, and it's effective, so why do you think that doctors aren't allowed to prescribe it in this country?
I think it's because of what I've said, that the vaccine is being pushed at all costs And I mean all costs.
Costs as in vested interests of those in big pharma and costs as in cost to life as well.
Because the vaccine, when we look at absolute risk reduction, is not terribly effective.
And yet, at the same time, we're not allowed to use things that are.
So it's unethical, immoral, and I think people are needlessly suffering because of it.
And not just suffering, but actually dying as a result.
And there'll be people listening to this who've lost loved ones.
And I realize I'm being incredibly emotive here, but the reality of the situation is so grave And just so reprehensible of what those in charge are actually doing, and doing to so many people, so many people.
It's unprecedented.
So I'm not sure how many people, it's hard to know how many people have actually died of SARS-CoV-2.
Or with, yeah.
Or with.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's call the figure 100,000 in the UK.
I mean, plus or minus.
And If those 100,000 people had been put on a protocol of, say, ivermectin, how many do you think would have survived?
That will never know the answer to now, I don't think.
There is going to be a UK-wide audit into all of the deaths of COVID.
Firstly, to confirm that they were actually of COVID, because remember, we haven't been able to do post-mortems.
But to answer that question, you would need to know their medical comorbidities and also with drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, you need to be starting them early on in the disease process.
If you're getting to the stage where their oxygen levels are dropping, Then you need to be putting them on blood thinning medication because that's when you're getting the coagulation going on.
The blood is starting to clot and ivermectin on its own is not going to help.
I would say that a good way to go would be like Zev Celenko.
And his protocol, where at least for the at-risk patients, they're given, you know, ivermectin or HCQ and nutraceuticals, so high-dose vitamin D, zinc, other things, coenzyme Q10.
So, you know, we can't even talk about vitamins in this country.
So, you know, that's why...
Yeah, well, again, I put that on social media and I just put these vitamins help your immune system and underneath appeared a little banner saying COVID misinformation, you know, so it's on my web page, you know, just a basic list of vitamins we should all be taking because essentially We can't get enough vitamins and micronutrients from our diets anymore.
Even if you eat the best diet in the world, what we've had over the last 50 or 100 years is decades and decades of erosion of soil and use of pesticides that we don't get the same sort of micronutrients or nutrition that we would have done 100 years ago from erosion of soil.
So if people want to visit my website, there's a basic list, including all of those things, just, you know, on the blog section, just to buy.
And on the website, it won't come up with, this is COVID misinformation.
That's good.
That's good.
I haven't got much time left.
I'm going to be called off by my wife soon.
I would very happily have talked to you for two hours rather than one.
But I want to talk about it.
By the way, I know that your lawyers are happy to help other whistleblowers, is that right?
That's right.
Yeah, so it's PJH Law.
Would you mind, perhaps with your podcast, James, just drawing people's attention to the crowdfunding for our legal challenge?
I'll put that at the bottom.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so that's to stop things like the COVID passport and to bring about private criminal prosecutions, okay?
And then, of course, if anyone is interested in learning about functional medicine or anything, then that's what I'm doing from now on, drsamwhite.com.
Well, tell me, what is functional medicine?
So at the moment we've got a system of health where you go to the doctor, you say I've got this symptom and they give you a pill.
You don't really look at the cause and there's a lot of people who suffer with illnesses like chronic fatigue, autoimmune disease, hormone problems that simply don't get better just with a pill for a symptom.
Functional medicine, where I trained in the US, it's about getting to the root cause of disease.
It's independent, so it's private essentially, but I spend a lot longer.
I can spend an hour, an hour and a half with a patient to begin with, and we have access to tests that are not available on the NHS.
And we do spend a lot of time looking at nutrition, but also the gut health as well, because when we think about viruses and infections, 70% of our immune system comes from a healthy gut.
So that's really important.
And the Western diet is responsible for so many of the diseases you'll see in a typical primary care clinic, which is basically through insulin resistance.
So type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer, all of those sorts of things.
So it's about reversing that, looking for the causes and really trying to help people out.
Without putting them on medications, actually reducing their medication burden as well at the same time, because we're getting to the root cause of their problems.
This sounds to me, I mean, it sounds to me like a blessing in disguise, you're being forced out of your GP practice.
Because you're doing real health care now.
Yeah, I feel happier doing this sort of, you know, work consulting than seeing 40 patients a day where I go home with a feeling that I haven't really helped any of them or they might have left feeling unfulfilled.
Because actually, there was an agenda I had to fill for the health service, which wasn't necessarily what the patient came in for.
Yes.
And the two don't always match up.
Well, they frequently don't match up.
And it's resulted, I think, in a lot of people either not wanting to go into general practice, and a lot of experienced doctors leaving the profession.
And so there's a big recruitment crisis in primary care.
Yes.
I can see if those of us who get out of this alive, which I think is not going to be as many as we might like.
Yeah.
What's happened as a result of what we're experiencing now is I think there's going to be a massive reduction in faith in the healthcare system.
People are going to realize that they've been let down.
They're going to really mistrust, distrust the big pharma companies.
They're not going to just be happy with their doctor just prescribing pills when that same doctor has given them or encouraged them to get a jab, which turns out to be the one that killed various ones of their relatives or gave them life-destroying damage.
And a lot of people I know are waking up to what you're saying.
I mean, I think this is part of a general awakening.
So tell me, what are the killer things that people are Eating that they shouldn't.
Yeah, that's really interesting.
So there is on my website, if people want, a variation of the ketogenic diet.
Okay.
And in that, you're essentially not using glucose or sugar as your fuel.
Now, all carbohydrates that we consume, so basically anything that tastes nice, in the words of Del Boy, But also, carbohydrate is hidden in a lot of foods that people would otherwise think are good for them.
You know, a lot of fruits in particular.
Often people just don't tolerate dairy and don't realize it.
It might just be that A couple of days later, they start to experience a headache and they don't ever match the two together.
So I see a lot of people with Irritable Bowel Syndrome, for instance, who we go through and really break down what's causing them to react in that way because they're often told it's because of stress.
But for me, that's not a substantial enough answer.
There's clearly something in their diet that's upsetting them.
Right.
So the PK diet or paleo ketogenic diet is more what our ancestral diet would be like, okay?
So it's high in micronutrients but removes all of the kind of inflammatory foods like wheats and grain, gluten.
and puts you in a state of healthy ketosis, where you're using fats as your fuel, okay?
Now once you've adjusted, which takes about 10 to 14 days, you start to feel a lot more energetic.
Your brain actually works about 20% better, so you can think better and concentrate.
And to give you an example, a lot of athletes are now turning to this because if you think about a marathon runner, they often describe hitting a brick wall around 16-18 miles.
Yeah.
That doesn't happen in ketosis.
They can keep going.
Oh, but Sam, what if I like my fruit and my yogurt in the morning?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we're going to put you on Koya yogurts, which is the one I've got really used to and now prefer, okay?
So they're dairy-free, okay?
Oh, I used to have that!
Yeah, yeah.
I can't be honest, because it's quite expensive.
It is a bit, yeah, but they do chocolate flavour now and caramel, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
Well, that's what they do purposely, James.
They make the highly dense carbohydrate foods cheap and easily obvious as soon as you go into the big supermarkets.
You know, so you've got, I think... I think you're touching your mic, making it make horrible noises.
As soon as you go into a supermarket, you're confronted with all of these high-carbohydrate foods.
And then that fits in... No, not yoghurt.
No, I mean biscuits and bread.
But I'm talking about yoghurt.
Are you trying to get out of my cold, dead hand?
You're trying to take away my yoghurt off me, are you?
I'm talking about dairy-free products.
Oh, no, come on.
That means no cheese either.
You can still go to France.
You can stay in France.
What about those of us who are lactose tolerant?
Surely that's okay.
I mean, it's really some of us, you know, for thousands of years, some of us have been eating dairy products.
Surely that's okay.
Yeah, you might be one of the lucky ones, put it that way, but it's actually a lot of people are intolerant of dairy, in particular one of the proteins in it, casein.
So what we tend to see in children is dairy encourages mucus production, So they tend to be these snotty children who then get glue ear and then as teenagers get Epstein Barr.
So if you get glue ear severe enough, you end up having bromides, which can cause long-term problems.
So we are talking, we are talking about preventing long-term illness, you know, but I don't want to spoil your trip.
You'll be telling me I can't smoke next.
I mean, I know, crazy idea like that, eh?
Yeah, yeah.
Stop that.
I was hoping you were going to say, don't eat sugary stuff.
And I was thinking, yeah, we'll eat sugary stuff.
Yeah.
Okay.
But I take your point and people can go to your website.
Tell me one more thing before we go.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember a time a few years ago when I used to go, yeah, I love Big Pharma.
I love the fact that they're, you know, they're kind of, I can't remember why I liked them, but I just thought they were kind of, I thought they were kind of right wing when I thought I was right wing.
And actually, I now think of them as totally, totally evil.
But what was I going to say about this?
Yeah, that's right.
My understanding is that allopathic medicine, which is basically what you practice in the NHS and in GP surgeries, where you prescribe pills, is essentially a product of the petroleum industry.
All these products are kind of byproducts of petroleum.
They were created by the kind of people who, they were pushed rather, by the people who are profiting by all this stuff.
And as a result we've lost touch with many much more natural products.
I mean like witch hazel for example.
I had nasty scratched arms from picking raspberries the other day and I didn't want to use a big pharma product.
I wanted to use witch hazel which works better probably.
And I imagine there's all sorts of folk remedies and things which have been suppressed by the medical industry.
Is that right?
I think we need to name names.
Let's name names.
It's the Rockefeller Foundation and their petroleum industry.
They also founded the American Cancer Institute when they realized what they were doing as well.
And I really resent the fact that our colleagues in naturopathic medicine are denigrated in the way that they are by mainstream medicine or modern allopathic medicine because we're talking about thousands of years of medicine.
And functional medicine provides the scientific basis for this ancient wisdom as well.
So there's a kind of a linking of the two worlds there and a crossing over, which is what I like.
And after my coming out a couple of months ago, the Association of Naturopathic Physicians offered me complimentary membership for a year, and I was absolutely delighted to join them and be able to go to their lectures.
You know, it's incredible.
Anyone dismisses, you know, I go to an osteopath, I go and have reflexology, because I think all of these things help.
And if people feel better and it helps them, then there's no reason why they should be dismissed.
And our colleagues, you know, who are helping us, because if you go to the doctor with back pain, he can only give you painkillers and put you on a long waiting list for physio.
Or surgery.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And you'll sign a consent form to say, you know, you could, you could be paralyzed as a result of the surgery.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
Okay.
So you might be better off trying an osteopath first or a chiropractor.
Yes.
Well, I would totally agree.
And, and, and this is, this is the really controversial one.
And I, I only realized this recently.
That, The pharmaceutical industry does not, what are we obsessed about in medicine?
We're obsessed about the cure for cancer.
And as I understand it, the cancer has been curable for a really quite some time, but the doctors who know this are quite often bumped off or end up in being institutionalized, or it's a real no-no for providing alternative cancer treatments.
And yet, Am I right?
Yeah.
That's horrifying.
Yeah, I believe so.
Yeah, I actually had an interesting meeting with a Russian scientist, and we went through this in some detail.
And some of our results were quite astounding.
Let's say that.
And she works mainly with cancer patients.
So there's a lot of money, James, in the cancer industry.
That's all we need to say on that.
Exactly.
I don't want you to get bumped off.
Yeah, I've been told my life's already at risk.
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, join the club.
I mean, do you know what?
How do, I mean, do you know what?
I had a taste of this.
I was once the victim of a hit job conducted by Paul Nurse, who won a Nobel Prize, Sir Paul Nurse.
He is very closely associated with the Rockefeller Foundation.
And when he came, because I was seen as a threat to these various vested interests because of my work campaigning against the global warming scare, you know, and the whole... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That whole bollocks, which is just as fraudulent as the allopathic medicine.
Yeah, yeah.
It is when you have heart.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So the BBC did it, coordinated a hit job on me with the Rockefeller Foundation.
And interestingly, one of the questions he asked me, because he wanted, I wasn't very down the rabbit hole at that time, he said, if you had a, if you had a beloved relative with cancer, this is obviously his preoccupation, his way of thinking, would you, would you, Take them to the doctor and see an oncologist and have conventional medicine.
Or would you try the latest quack cures?
Which I thought was an odd question.
I was thinking, well, I'd... Loaded question, certainly, yeah.
Certainly loaded.
But I think my answer was something like, you know, well, I'd go with whatever seemed to be the most effective that I hadn't made up my mind about this.
And I was slightly puzzled by the relevance of his question.
Yeah.
In hindsight, I see exactly why he was asking me, because he's part of that industry.
He's pushing it.
But so people with cancer, how do they...
Do they have to go online and search the more obscure recesses in order to be able to access these mystery treatments?
How does it work?
I'm not sure, to be honest.
So my role in cancer as a primary care doctor is to pick up cancer early.
And at my former practice, they'd audited it, actually.
And I was the one who picked up the most.
So that was quite nice.
Not nice, but it was a good stat, at least.
And then, as a community doctor, our role would then be to look after patients dying at home who wished not to be admitted to hospital or to go into a hospice.
So the oncologists are kind of left to it, if you like.
Yes.
But I remember a friend of mine saying that their role will soon be replaced with an algorithm, which you wouldn't think of in medicine.
But he said to me, what you're doing is you're looking at a scan and then blood results and then you're coming up with a chemotherapy regime.
Yeah.
So how long is it before computer modelling does that for them?
Well, aren't I right in thinking that in America it is actually illegal to refuse chemotherapy if you've got cancer, something like that?
You have to take the conventional treatment.
I suspect so in certain states, in states where there's perhaps a democratic governor.
But imagine, what's happened to the idea of bodily autonomy?
That's it, that's it, that's it, yeah.
And that's what our letter and campaign and legal challenge is about, is that You know, we're living in this totalitarian medical authoritarianism, which a year or two, well, two years ago, we would have thought unthinkable, unimaginable, because the horrors of World War Two and Stalinism were never going to be repeated because of what we know about what happened.
And yet here we are, here we are.
Yes.
And it's going to take us to wake up others, but also get the mainstream media to stop peddling the government's lies.
Because I realised I could not compete when I was trying to have a chat with patients and discuss about informed consent or the lack of.
I couldn't compete with the BBC because in this country, Certainly, people are so trusting of the medical industry, the medical profession, but also the media as well.
And as much as we've seen people rally in London, that didn't stop us going to illegal wars in Iraq and things.
We really need to see this mass unity of people really being able to get in touch with what is real science, real data, and having it explained to them in an understandable way and not misrepresented by quack doctors who go on the BBC and ITV, you know, and spout lies, frankly.
Yes, I agree.
That's a good way to end, Sam, I think.
I'm very happy.
Thank you for your principled stand.
I'm glad things have worked out well for you.
I'll put the details about your website and about the crowdfunder at the bottom of this podcast so people can follow that.
Everyone who's enjoyed this podcast, as I'm sure you have, remember, freedom isn't free, and neither are my podcasts, or they shouldn't be, because they're jolly good.
So please remember to support me on Patreon, on Subscribestar, or via dellingpoleworld.com, where you can find out how to give me PayPal donations and buy a special friend badge.
Thank you for listening, and thank you again, Dr. Sam White, for being on the show.
Thank you, James.
It's been a real pleasure.
Thank you.
Let's hope we don't get bumped off by Big Pharma or the Rockefeller Foundation.
I'm looking over my shoulder.
Yeah.
Mind you, it might be better given what's coming.
Better off out of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've still got some hope.
I've still got some hope.
Yeah, of course.
There's always hope.
It was the last thing in Pandora's box.
And anyway, at the end, you know, we've got the afterlife and, you know, God, which is great.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
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