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July 2, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:33:37

Right Said Fred

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	Welcome.
	Welcome to The Dilling Pod with me, James Dillingpole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's guests, but look, I really am.
	It's Fred and Richard Fairbrass.
	And I've right said Fred, and I've been trying for ages.
	to get them on the podcast.
	So this is a real treat.
	Boys, I keep missing you.
	I know you keep going on the London marches, like me.
	Yes.
	And I keep thinking I'm going to bump into your delightful, so I can kiss your bald pates and, you know, have some man love.
	Because there's a lot of honeymooners on at the marches, isn't there?
	Have you noticed that?
	There's a great deal of hugging.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	It's a good thing.
	It's a very good thing.
	No spikes either.
	No spikes ever.
	No.
	What do you mean, spikes?
	Well, you know, viral spikes.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely not.
	No, no.
	It's like the third summer of love, isn't it, really?
	It is, yes.
	Because presumably, like me, you were there in the second Summer of Love and that's kind of your... How old are you both, may I ask?
	It's very harsh.
	Do we have to?
	No, you don't have to.
	No, I won't ask.
	People can Google it.
	I'm over 60, but approaching it from the wrong end, as they say.
	All right, OK.
	But presumably, I mean, did you go raving?
	Or did you miss out?
	Yeah, Fred did, more than me.
	I used to go to Shume and places like Dirtbox in the mid... Dirtbox!
	Yeah, there was a guy called Dick Dirtbox and that used to happen in Chancross Road and then with Shume you would get sort of messages via phone calls or flyers and stuff like that and meet at a certain place, you'd jump in a minibus and shoot off somewhere.
	Yeah.
	I never went to Shume.
	I know it was one of those things where, you know, if you didn't go to Shume you weren't there.
	I used to go to this night at the WAG called Love and I had my... Oh yes!
	Do you remember that one?
	Yes, I do remember that one.
	Yes!
	Did I ever go?
	I'm trying to think.
	I think I probably did.
	I did a... I used to go out a lot.
	I did a David Bowie video at the WAG.
	Yeah, you did, didn't you?
	You did Loving for Bluejean.
	Loving for Bluejean, yeah.
	What, you made a...
	A video?
	Yes, I was playing bass.
	Apparently the American market for the single Loving the Blue Jean, they wanted something more quintessentially London because the original video was done in Barkers.
	That's on the Roof Garden.
	And the American market wanted something more quintessentially London and kind of clubby and so they re-recorded it at the Wake Club.
	Okay, so you've actually spent quality time with David Bowie?
	Well, quality, I mean it would be difficult to ask him now, but I would be inclined to ask him first as to whether it was quality time.
	But I did spend time, yes.
	I mean, so many of us who haven't had that experience are going to be really, really envious.
	I mean, was he as good as we fans think he was?
	I mean, was he great to be with?
	He was, I found him to be quite shy.
	He was with a woman who then, I think was his PA, whether she was his girlfriend or not, I'm not sure, but her name was Coco Schwab, and she was very protective of him.
	If you wanted to talk to him, you had to kind of go through her.
	And I sort of understand.
	In a way I understand.
	He was very famous.
	I was, you know, an uppity wannabe.
	And he probably didn't want to be bothered by people like me.
	But he was very friendly and very communicative when he was there.
	We went for Top of the Pops.
	It was nice there, wasn't it?
	Yeah, Top of the Pops.
	When we went for Top of the Pops for the very first time, I walked down this corridor and David Bowie was sitting on a little bench waiting to go in.
	And he looked at me and he said, what are you doing here?
	And I said, well, I've got a hit record, you cheeky bugger.
	What do you think I'm doing here?
	I think he thought I was making tea.
	You were a hanger-on.
	You were groupie.
	Exactly, you know.
	Custard cream.
	He was very, very nice.
	And yes, a solid guy.
	And also, I think Iman, his wife, has proven to be a really sophisticated woman.
	She's not done any of that, you know, any of the sort of Chris and Tell type stuff, you know.
	She's been very cool.
	She has actually, you're right about that.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	No, I think from what I've seen, because before I became a kind of Controversial whatever I am.
	I did have a spell as a music critic for a while.
	The world we're talking about now, it's like the old world that we've lost because we're never going to get it back, are we?
	No, we're not.
	Never.
	It's going to take a generation.
	I don't think they ever come back, honestly.
	No.
	That's my opinion.
	I think there will always be people who want to wear masks because they're either used to it, they have been brainwashed, they are convinced it does something.
	They have no teeth.
	They have no teeth.
	There are always people that irrespective of the side effects of the vaccine, they will always support the vaccine.
	They just will.
	Yeah.
	There's something even more, even sadder.
	I had the most amazing conversations at the last march on Saturday and you know how, but I went with my sister and we were describing, she described it a bit like, you know when you go to Glastonbury and you've had a, I presume you've been to Glastonbury, you're not so urban.
	Not Glastonbury, we've been to many other places.
	So there's this thing at Glastonbury where you go to the festival and you've had a great weekend and you desperately want the weekend to keep going and so what you find is you stop in service stations on the way, on the leaving, and you see fellow people with their wristbands and you kind of want to milk the last bit of the vibe.
	Anyway, so we'd had our fun on the march, we were walking away, we went to outside Buckingham Palace And we found these stragglers and we got talking to them about, you know, what's going on and how miserable it was.
	And there was a lovely kid there.
	He was 14 years old and he had a wisdom beyond his years.
	And I'll explain why that was in a moment.
	He was called something, he was either called Elijah or Elisha.
	It was a prophet's name and he'd come with his mother and And he had a sort of seriousness about him, a sort of deepness about him.
	And I asked him, you know, what's it like for your generation?
	You're a, you know, what's, what's school been like?
	And he said, I'm, I'm homeschooled.
	And I thought, aha, that's why he's, that's why he's not stupid.
	I said, well, what about, what about the rest of your, your, your generation?
	And he said, they're gone.
	And he absolutely meant it.
	It was the saddest thing I heard.
	They're gone.
	He just meant they wear the masks all the time, even when they don't have to.
	They've gone in the head.
	And you think, it's okay for us old farts.
	I mean, we've had our fun.
	If we get taken out by the cabal tomorrow, as some of us probably will, you know, we've had a good innings.
	But you think about the future and you think if the future is in the hands of kids who've mostly been masked and brainwashed with all this, you know, like the signs outside a primary school that somebody sent me, you know, a sort of child's drawing saying something like masks are, I don't know what it is, masks save civilization or whatever, you know, they've been brainwashed, they've been propagandized.
	What future is there for us?
	Yeah, it is a bit bleak.
	I mean, the only thing that we sort of hang on to is the human element, which is really unpredictable.
	And I think there's, as messed up as a lot of us are, there is this ability to do the very opposite of what we're expected to do.
	And I think when furloughs end, I think The growth in numbers on the marches, there is a slight ray of hope that maybe, maybe it won't all go to plan.
	And that human element, which is people just acting up, people acting bizarrely, people following their heart, not their head.
	That could be a very powerful thing.
	Also, I think the big shame for me has been the arts.
	Oh man.
	The silence of the arts has just been staggering.
	We should talk about this.
	Yeah well I've emailed the MU about this and they were very polite and very very nice and they they're obviously you know on a bit of a on a bit of a horns of a dilemma really with this because they they know what they should be doing but as a union and as an official body they have guidelines and and and certain sort of protocols they have they feel they have to follow.
	I've emailed them and I just said You don't have to take part as a union, but what you certainly can do is make members aware and encourage members to turn up as individual subjects.
	It doesn't have to be a collective MU thing.
	And he said on the email, he said, I don't know anything about this, Marks.
	What was it?
	Well it's, you know, mate, hello.
	So I pointed him to, you know, the World Doctor's Alliance and Britain Unlocked and that kind of stuff to get this information.
	But I think it is, my singing teacher, for instance, as an example, because the West End is closed down now, more or less, he's doing about two or three pupils a week in terms of teaching.
	He was doing about seven a day.
	And that's the knock-on effect of this year.
	It's colossal.
	Well also I think just philosophically, for a city or a community to be artistically vibrant.
	Politicians have got to take their foot off people's throats.
	They've got to release the pressure.
	They really, really have.
	When we first moved to London, every pub was a gig.
	You could smoke in every pub.
	It was like New York when we first went there.
	It was vibrant and you felt that anything was possible.
	And now, you walk around the West End and you're told where you can sit, where you can't sit, where you should stand, where you shouldn't stand.
	It's spiritually crushing, I think.
	And I think just purely from an artist's point of view, whether you're a painter, architect, musician, doesn't really matter.
	It's got to be a case of the politicians just get out of the way.
	They have to.
	They'll only get out of the way if we push them.
	I think they won't stand back.
	No, I think we're going to have to push them.
	I agree.
	I think it is going to get to that point.
	I'm a bit, to be absolutely honest with you, I'm a little bit in a bit of a Because if Paul McCartney decided to do the march, which would be absolutely brilliant, I would find it fatally irritating that nobody would talk to me.
	There is that.
	There is that, yeah.
	Do you not think the last 18 months have tested to destruction the idea that rock and roll is about rebellion?
	I mean, these people have been so establishment, haven't they?
	They've just gone along with what their overlords tell them and looked quite comfortable about it.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, they have Springsteen doing a jabbed only gig along with the Foo Fighters.
	You have The Damned doing a poster where they've all got masks on.
	You know, the interesting thing for me is that back in the day when you're looking at, say, the war in Vietnam and America, pop music was at the center of a lot of the demonstrations, whether Joan Baez or Buffalo Springfield or Bob Dylan or whoever it was.
	And people, in a way, they kind of expected the pop culture to have a view.
	They expected it to be kicking against the traces.
	And I agree with you.
	I mean, whether it's because a lot of artists are signed to major labels, or major labels are signed, or owned by, co-opted, or whether it's major management, major publishing, I don't know.
	But, our independence, because we're independent, completely, and we've chosen that route, we can pretty much say what we want.
	We don't have to explain ourselves to anybody.
	You don't belong to the man.
	Which is real, indeed.
	Exactly.
	We did make that decision quite consciously back in the mid-90s when we were sort of in the belly of the beast, particularly in America, because sexy was so huge.
	And we were being wined and dined by Hollywood's elite, I suppose you'd call them.
	And really, Looking back, we should have been as happy as pigs in shit, but we weren't.
	And we couldn't wait to get home.
	We couldn't wait to get back to the hotel.
	The endless press, the endless Attention.
	If I'd been asked two years before, would you want that?
	I would've gone, yes, of course I want that.
	Once we got into it, I thought, I don't want this.
	This is nothing to do with music.
	We're not playing.
	All we're doing is waving and being famous and getting photographs with lots of famous people.
	And we should, you know, if we were really money hungry and ambitious we would have stayed in LA and worked that scene.
	That's what we would have done.
	But I guess that's not us.
	And so when we got back and then we did our remarkably disastrous second album.
	That difficult second album!
	Well, bizarrely, the second album actually sold reasonably well.
	But the trouble is, compared to the first album, it did appallingly.
	If it'd been our first album, we would say that's a pretty good start.
	But because our art and those songs were so big, the second album just didn't stand a prayer.
	And radio were already bored with us and the whole Britpop thing was beginning to raise its head.
	So we were out of sync.
	We got bad tempers.
	Yeah, and we became difficult.
	Did you?
	Yeah, we did.
	We didn't like the industry very much.
	We didn't like the people we were working with.
	So we said, let's get away from all this and try and do things ourselves, which we did.
	But we also made some huge mistakes by ending up with the wrong man, like every band does, wrong management.
	And, you know, we made some classic errors.
	But overall, what we did hang on to was our ability to do and not do what we wanted to do.
	Which we've pretty much stuck to.
	We've made some errors, of course, but overall we've done alright.
	I watched a documentary yesterday on J.J.
	Cale, who sadly passed away some years ago, who was a great friend of Eric Clapton.
	And they were talking to the manager of J.J.
	Cale, and the manager of J.J.
	Cale said, I phoned him up one day when he had his first hit record, and I said, you've got a hit record on your hands, you need to get out and promote it.
	And J.J.
	Cale's reaction was, well, if I've got a hit record, why can't I stay at home?
	Which is absolutely right.
	Which is exactly right.
	It's exactly right.
	And I didn't think like that.
	I just thought, no, we've got to hit record.
	Get out there.
	Get out there.
	But that's what JJ Cale was absolutely right.
	If I've got to hit record, why do I have to go out and do it?
	So did you make enough from the first?
	I mean, OK, imagine I'd made your first album.
	Would I have made enough to be able to just sit on my arse and just go fox hunting three times a week?
	If you've done it on your own, 100%, you'd live a very good life.
	But we had to split it three ways.
	Ours was split three ways.
	Four ways with the tax money.
	Yeah.
	And also, what was interesting is that what was weird with our careers, in about the mid-90s, our careers started to dive, but our money went up.
	So we were in this very bizarre situation where we were actually becoming less popular, but our income was going up.
	Because of the usage of I Am True Sex in America.
	They wouldn't stop playing it.
	So it was on something like, now it's done about 50 movies, it's done over 100 commercials or something mad.
	And it was on, I think it was on the Garnier or Long Con or something, Kodak, Ford, It just went mad and so we had all these really big... it's called a synchronization when somebody uses your song.
	So we had all these syncs and it was a very odd thing.
	So our careers are going down the toilet but we're sitting down with our accountant and he says you need to spend some money and none of the two conversations did not balance out at all.
	And also we did, when the money thing was beginning to hit us as a kind of reality that we weren't making the money we thought we were, we did Comic Relief.
	And now with comic relief, you have to obviously sign over all your income to the charity, which is what you're expected to do, which is fine, which is absolutely fine, which is what we did.
	But when you see big cheques coming in and you think, oh, I could really use that money, I could really use that money, but you have to hand it over, that's what you've done it for.
	That is galling.
	Presumably it's kind of, what's the word I'm looking for?
	Earmarked.
	They can't eat into your general bank.
	Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
	It is Ringface.
	It's Ringface.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
	And it wasn't a major issue.
	It's just that, you know, at the end of the 90s, I think literally 98, 99, no 99, our financial wheels came off a little bit.
	But then we were fortunate enough to do a very good I have a very big couple of albums in 2001 and it all kicked off again in Europe and mainly Germany and so that sort of we dipped momentarily and then we bounced back up again and we tend to, because we sort of run everything ourselves, We just, we manage our finances.
	We sort of, we manage to hang in there, really.
	We don't, we're not very extravagant.
	We did do the, well, Richard bought a Ferrari and I bought some silly cars.
	Worst thing I ever did, you know.
	So we went down, yeah, we went down that route a little bit, but not for long, because it's not something I'm particularly attracted to.
	I, we still have nice cars, but not like, you know, a gold Lamborghini, you know, with, with, you know, Fred written on the back.
	Is it just a boring red Lamborghini?
	Yes, yeah, yes.
	We don't, we don't, we haven't gone down that route.
	They're quite low-key.
	Yeah, we are quite, we're both very, very neighbourhood.
	I know, I'm meant to be living in Barcelona, but because of this, it's been difficult.
	We're crashing at Richard's at the moment, but we're, both of us, whether I'm in Barcelona or we're here, I live within about four blocks.
	I'm very neighbourhood.
	I'm one of those people that, you know, if you've ever seen in LA you get these gangs, the Cribs or whoever, and some of them have never seen the sea because they won't leave their neighbourhoods.
	So they live in LA but they've never seen the ocean.
	And I'm a bit like that.
	Once I'm in my neighbourhood, that is it.
	You'd be hard-pressed to see the ocean from here.
	Yes, you would.
	They'd have to get up a very, very tall building to see the ocean.
	No, I think you've definitely chosen the right path and, you know, I think most people who end up in the music industry actually have, I don't know, have a pretty horrible time of it actually.
	I don't get the impression there's much happiness there.
	No, there isn't.
	There isn't much, no.
	People, I think a lot of artists, they are really, obviously it's money, it's the ego of being famous and being photographed.
	I think some artists feel they don't exist unless there's a camera actually confirming their existence.
	I think it's a really important principle in life, generally, to walk against the arrows.
	I really do.
	If there's an arrow in a shop telling you which way to walk, go the opposite way.
	Always.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Tell me.
	Or you put the arrow up.
	Yeah, well, funnily enough, actually, funny enough, Jane, very, very quickly, in my local post office, and this is before lockdown, they had arrows all over the floor pointing to the, you know, the till and the stamps and this.
	So I wrote to the local council and I said, excuse me, but I'm not 12.
	I can walk into a shop and ascertain for myself where to stand and where the stamps are.
	And in all fairness to them, they took all the arrows up.
	They actually took the markings up.
	But when we went to the gym today, I get great pleasure out of walking in against the arrows.
	I enjoy doing that and I think we should all do that all the time.
	I was in a cafe today and there was a couple... I couldn't be bothered to train today and my brain and body weren't into it, so I sent Rich off, hoping he could train for me.
	Vicarious training!
	Yes, but there was this couple who came in and he's doing his QR code wouldn't work with his phone and he didn't want to pick up the menu because you know menus man they're really dangerous so they walked out so instead of just going up to the waitress and saying I want this and or maybe actually being man enough to pick up a menu you know This guy, him and his wife, they put their masks back on and wandered off.
	It is very easy to blame people for this and in a way it's true but I think the buck ultimately stops at number 10.
	Ultimately it stops at the people at the top who have never nuanced this information.
	But they don't want to.
	Maybe they don't want to.
	I don't know what the reason is.
	I'm just saying they haven't.
	So, you know, there's no evidence.
	Nobody in parliament or government, as far as I'm aware, or in science has ever said, if you're walking in the park on your own, you must wear a mask.
	Nobody's ever said that.
	But you do see people doing it.
	Ignorance is the best friend of this administration.
	I think you're right.
	So that for me is the cardinal sin that this government has committed, which is to allow people to wallow in their ignorance and not to address them directly and let them have all the information that's available.
	It's a terrible thing that they've done.
	Although I don't care for people who wear masks when they're going to have to, I think ultimately the blame lies at number 10.
	Yeah, you almost need to give people permission to be free.
	I was in that cake shop, Ole and Steen, you know that chain?
	And I went in to get one of their mega expensive cheese toasties.
	Sans mask, obviously, because, you know, why would you?
	I mean, like, it's so easy to be a rebel these days, isn't it?
	You know, I go into Aldi and I see a sign outside saying, you cannot come in unless you're wearing a mask, and you just walk in and nothing happens.
	So I was in Olenstein and not wearing a mask and the girl behind the counter said, have you got a lanyard?
	And I said, no, no, I just don't wear a mask.
	You know, I'm exempt, I said.
	Anyway, then another guy walks in.
	It's a hot day and it's a muggy day.
	It's the day of the last march and He is not wearing a mask and he starts apologizing.
	The first thing he does, he starts apologizing to the woman behind the counter saying, look, I'm really sorry, but my hay fee was really bad and I just can't, I can't, you know, I, you know, I come here regularly and I'm always wearing a mask.
	And I was, I was, I was watching this, this scene playing out and I went up to him, I sidled up to him and I said, mate, what you say is I'm mask exempt.
	And it's all over.
	That's all they want to hear.
	And he looked at me with surprise and then gratitude.
	He realised that that is the answer.
	Yes, yes.
	Yeah, exactly.
	There was a scientist on the TV, on the socials the other day, and he was talking about the, what's that sort of, the mist of breath when you're on a hot, on a cold day?
	No, it's not, no, the, oh God, what's the word?
	Anyway, He was showing how masks don't really work.
	He put five on, right?
	He put five masks on, right?
	Took off his glasses, held his glasses in front of the mask, and then breathed.
	And the masks all steamed up.
	So my problem with this is not the question of wearing masks.
	I just don't think people think about why they're doing it.
	They don't think about, is it the right mask to wear?
	They just do it because a man, Matt Hancock, who cannot keep his hands off people he's working with, has told them to.
	It's extraordinary to me that the... I used to think the UK was a little bit truculent, you know, a little bit cynical, a little bit... Punk.
	Difficult.
	Yes, a little bit.
	And I sort of don't really recognise the country I'm living in now.
	It's incredibly gullible and subservient, much more so than I thought it was.
	It's quite interesting that I think a lot of the people on the march, and a lot of people in my kind of lairy chat groups, and although this may be self-selecting audience, but they seem to be from the rave generation, you know, sort of Castle Morton, that kind of stuff, where we didn't We didn't respect the man, you know, we wanted to do our own thing.
	And today's generation, the younger generation, seem much more cowed and compliant.
	Or am I sounding like a kind of granddad complaining that kids aren't what they're supposed to be?
	You know, that's true, James.
	I mean, the popular music is a good example of that, I think.
	It's not rebellious.
	It's not angry.
	It sounds much like the adverts that, you know, it butt-picks either side of it.
	It's kind of, It's almost like, you know, the degree to which musicians want to be tapped by the royal sword and turned into a sir.
	I've never understood that.
	I've never really understood it.
	And somebody said to me the other week, they said, you know, you should talk to Major so-and-so, you know, he'll sort that out for you or whatever.
	And I just thought, actually, do I?
	I don't care.
	Our father fought in the Second World War and he came out on the other end with no letters before or after his name.
	So if he did that for his country, I don't see why I should have an OBE or anything just for being a musician.
	Did your dad ever talk about, did he have a good war?
	Yes, he did, I think.
	I think he was lucky.
	He lost his best friend very early on.
	One of his best mates was killed beside him on one of his first missions, whatever you call it.
	But dad was on combined operations.
	Combined operations, I was about to say combined harvester.
	Combined operations.
	He was on a combine harvester throughout the war.
	Combine operations.
	Those are very dangerous combine harvesters if you fall into them.
	Absolutely.
	So the combine operations were big fat boats that went up to the beaches and then this thing rolled down.
	Like a Dunkirk.
	Like a Dunkirk.
	And the tanks and everything else would roll off.
	And Dad was operating one of those.
	And he lied about his age.
	I think he got into the Navy when he was 17.
	Yeah.
	And overall was very fortunate as far as we can gather.
	But he didn't talk about it much.
	But the one thing that used to happen, if you ever had to wake him up, he would jump up and almost stand up and salute.
	He didn't lose that, ever.
	So if he was asleep in the chair and you woke him up, it was really quick.
	He wouldn't necessarily salute, but he'd stand to attention.
	Then he'd go and get his gun and chase us around the house.
	I think going back to the younger generation you were talking about, I think one of the things is that the older generation, and that's a generation beyond us in a way, know what it means to have to fight for things that you value.
	The younger generation, and it's not their fault, they have not had to do that.
	The rights and privileges and liberties and privacy that they have, have been passed on to them by previous generations.
	I believe that they don't truly understand the sacrifices that were made in the past to make these things real.
	And so they kind of think that it's a given, that they don't need fighting for.
	An American politician, I can't remember what it was, said it needs fighting for every single year, every day, every single day.
	These things are not a given.
	Michael, sorry, but Michael Gove actually said, you know, in an interview, when governments take rights and privileges away, it's rare that governments give them back.
	That's right.
	Yes, and he knows where off he speaks.
	Because he knows, he knows where off he speaks.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I'm, you know, I'm sorry, go on.
	No, no, I was going to completely change the subject because I've been dying to ask you.
	Have you seen that video by, is it called Altian?
	The Australian X Factor winner about the... No!
	Oh, you gotta watch it.
	I mean, it's six hours long.
	So obviously you don't watch it, you get the idea after a while.
	Altium, it's about the connections between the music industry and the high level Freemasonry and the kind of all the evil that has infected the industry.
	And I was wondering at what level you have to make your pact with the devil.
	Like obviously you got your hits without having to sell your souls.
	I imagine.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	For us, because we were never part of the major cartel, even in America, for people that don't know this, you have an artist deal and that's when an artist signs to a label.
	We didn't have that.
	We had what's called a licensing deal, where you have almost a production deal.
	You have a small deal Which is your domestic deal.
	And that gets foiled on.
	It's called a licensing deal.
	So you're not really... You use their machinery, but you're not being managed and manipulated by them in the same way.
	So it's a very different deal.
	Anyway, so we were never part of that.
	We never got involved in meeting all the bigwigs of major record companies, because we weren't signed to them.
	We were coveted I suppose to a degree by some people.
	We had Joel Silver who came backstage, Johnny Depp, Mickey Rourke, Dianne Keaton.
	But you didn't have to have sex with them before you got on, that was the main thing?
	No, not to my knowledge.
	We did ask them and they wouldn't!
	Yeah, you can't really blame us.
	We got invited to a few odd parties, one we went to and we went in and the girls were far too young and we just, it was just a gut feeling.
	We went in, this is not right man, we need to leave and we did literally just do a u-turn and leave.
	I mean some of the people were really really interested but we never really, I'll tell you what, we were invited, good examples, we were invited to an opening in London about three years ago, three or four years ago, longer I think anyway, and It was a big deal.
	It was a really big deal and John Travolta was there and the whole thing.
	We were going to do the carpet thing.
	Fred and I get there and we look at all this stuff in Leicester Square and then the cameras and the red carpet and all this kind of stuff and we just thought oh my god this is going to be awful.
	So we found a pub which was just up the way.
	We got slaughtered and then we went back and then we got hammered.
	We did it and that's kind of what we're like really.
	We're not you know There's a part of me that wants it, but the bigger part doesn't.
	I get a big kick out of playing music and writing songs.
	I also get a kick out of being able to say what we believe now in this mess that we're all in.
	I couldn't stand being part of a system where I was being told what to say or told to pull back.
	We pretty much say what we want.
	The usual suspects are very quiet, aren't they?
	The ones that normally mouth off.
	Totally.
	I mean we're very grateful uh to have you with us in in the in the foxholes and the trenches fighting fighting alongside us because it's you know it's I mean there's okay so there's you, there's Eric Clapton, he's played a blind hasn't he?
	I mean yes, Ian Brown.
	I mean we've got some good people um there's Jim Corr, Danny Rampling, Danny Rampling.
	What's weird, I won't mention the band, but we've had messages from a couple of bands, more successful than us, and they've said, you know, keep up the good fight, great stuff.
	And I'm thinking, why aren't you saying this, man?
	You've got a bigger reach than we have, but, you know.
	Yeah, it is weird.
	It is.
	And particularly, it's not just our musicians, it's also, think of all the dancers.
	Comedians.
	Comedians, you know, Lawrence.
	Andrew Lawrence does a really good thing on his sort of podcast type thing.
	Is it a podcast or blog?
	I can't remember.
	Podcast.
	And he's obviously very aware of the fact that the venues are closed.
	He can't do shows and so he's doing a fundraising thing, like a kind of fundraising thing, GoFundMe page.
	for his uh for his broadcast and he's really really good and he understands clearly um he's very non-pc and i really like that he slags everybody off he's very very very funny did a really good hatchet job on Keir Starmer the other day um and uh and for artists you know many artists like that there is you know they their income stream has been completely taken away and we're lucky we have you know we can keep them all from the door because we have you know we write songs we have kind of what they call pipeline money
	But if you're a Western dancer, a Western singer, a choreographer, this is a really tough time.
	And I think unions, when it's the MU or equity, I understand their position.
	They have to look towards the guidelines and they can't be seen to be renegade, if you like.
	But I think they really have to fight the fight here.
	This is people's lives and people's living.
	Some people have spent their entire lives working to be a dancer, working to be a singer.
	I think it's a massive deal.
	Shouldn't we just retrain like Ritchie Sinek said?
	Retrained, yes.
	I think he's really got hold of something.
	Oh, retrained!
	Yeah, I wanted to be a dancer but now I'm learning to code.
	Yeah, that's really going to work, isn't it?
	I know, I know.
	It is.
	Well, in all fairness to him, he retrained as a rich woman's husband, didn't he?
	Yes, I think we trade.
	Yes, yes, well.
	The entertainment industry and the hospitality industry are the industries that have been among the hardest hit by this.
	And I think, okay, at the beginning, it might've been excusable.
	It might've been, look, it's all gonna be over by Christmas, people thought, or before Christmas.
	You know, this was, you remember that time where we thought three weeks was a long time for a lockdown, and it was quite a radical thing, and it was never gonna happen again?
	They told us all this.
	I can see why, at the beginning, But now it's so obvious what's going on.
	They want to crush us.
	They want to crush small businesses.
	They don't ever want us to go to the pub anymore because, actually, they don't want us talking in groups and plotting against them and agreeing that something weird is going on.
	You would have thought at this point that, well, certainly the music industry would say, right, fuck this.
	We've had enough.
	We're going to fight.
	And you would have thought the Um, the musical industry would be the same.
	I mean, Andrew Lloyd Webber had a brief stab, didn't he?
	And then he kind of retreated.
	Um, and there was a, you know, the, the day after our, our London March, there was a kind of dance event in, around Trafalgar Square.
	And I originally, initially thought, yeah, Go on, stick it to the man, fight back through the medium of beats, you know, and let's play, uh, uh, don't take the vaccine or, um, but it turns out that actually the police were on board with this.
	And the reason they were on board with it was it was basically the music industry saying, look, we'll get the kids jabbed.
	Uh, if you give, if you let them come put money in our clubs again, Which is not really, I mean, that's like saying, yeah, we'll all wear the yellow star and live in our ghetto as long as you don't kill us.
	I mean, you know how that works out, don't we?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Is that, is that the arrangement?
	That's what I've been hearing.
	I initially thought this is great.
	This is because dance music is about freedom.
	Yeah, it was not, it was not that.
	There was, they're definitely seeing this, they're desperate to get the young jabbed as quickly as possible before people realise just what a, what a shit show we've invited on ourselves.
	And you know, before kids start dying, they want to, that's how bad it is.
	It is.
	I mean, we had the guy, there was a guy, Edmonds, Professor Edmonds, John Edmonds from Sage.
	Saying that we can get back to normal once we've got all the kids vaccinated.
	What a poisonous theory.
	It is just, you can't actually... The most staggering thing to me is that within 15 to 18 months we have got to this place.
	Very quickly.
	This has not been a generational decay of morals and of philosophical outlook.
	This has been something incredibly sudden and pushed really, really hard.
	It's found sympathy in many, many, many, many people.
	We were working with two guys in LA, songwriting, and they sent us an email saying we don't want to work with you anymore based upon your position with masks.
	Honestly.
	Right.
	You must have been gutted.
	Well, I just think... We didn't give a shit really.
	No, I just think, you know... One thing I would like to say before I forget.
	The next march is on 24th July.
	Yes.
	If there are any musicians, artists, dancers, performers of any kind watching this, please come along.
	Please come along.
	You don't have to be on the same page with everything that we think, but show some support for those who have been completely ruined in the last 18 months in an industry that was already, music in particular, was already under great stress.
	So if you're not doing anything on that Saturday, please come along and make yourself known.
	And I'll tell you who was there.
	Glenn Matlock was there, apparently.
	Yes, he was.
	We were talking about Glenn Matlock.
	Yeah, apparently.
	But then I think all these musicians and artists should all be together.
	You know, Danny rambling at one end and then we're at the other, then Glenn Matlock's 400 yards ahead.
	We all need to be walking together.
	We've been with Danny a couple of times.
	Yeah, we have.
	On other marches.
	He's a good guy.
	He's a good guy, exactly.
	But just from an artist's point of view, when I was watching some gigs the other day, and I agree with you, James, it's very hard to imagine that coming back inside a generation, I think, because people You know, even if the promoters are there and the gig is there and everything else, just getting people to stand next to each other and feel relaxed and feel at ease with somebody who's shouting and screaming.
	Getting people out of that fearful mindset, it's very hard to get that fear out of people.
	It's easy to put it in.
	It is extraordinary.
	And this is why, coming back to that, when I joked about the third summer of love, but the human warmth at these rallies is like nothing I've experienced for a very long time, certainly not while on drugs anyway.
	Exactly.
	The other thing that people, people who don't understand, they think we're doing it to try and influence politicians.
	That's not why I'm there.
	I'm there to show support for the people who think the same.
	And I got talking to one lady from Portsmouth, I think she was, on the march before last, and she was about 65.
	And for her, the march was incredibly refreshing, because where she said where she lived, she was the only one who thought as she did.
	And she feels completely alone.
	She comes up to London, and there's a million people who agree with her.
	And probably another million at home who aren't there.
	So it's more about, as Fred said, it's more about changing people's minds and giving support to the people there.
	These politicians, for some reason, the crop of politicians we have right now, don't care about the facts.
	They talk about the stats and all that.
	They're not interested.
	They're not interested in a broad picture of scientific medical information that can inform the population.
	They're intent on one particular story.
	And it's like you say, you don't have to be terribly out there to be rebellious these days.
	It doesn't take much, you know?
	No, no, no, I agree.
	And I think we, well, okay, it's partly about coming together and realizing you're not alone.
	Yeah.
	But also, I think that we need to demonstrate to the government that there is this critical mass of resistance, because I worry that if they whittle us down to too small a numbers... Have you seen the footage of those camps that they're building?
	They're building them in America, in Australia, and in the UK, and they look very sinister.
	They're like, I mean, yeah, they're like panopticon-style sort of prison camps, basically.
	Is that Five Wells?
	Is it called Five Wells, that one?
	Because that's a new prison that's being built in the UK.
	And that's, where is it?
	Is it Wellingborough?
	It might be Wellingborough.
	I can't remember.
	And I don't know.
	I don't know what the camps are for.
	I'm just trying to remain open-minded and not get too conspiratorial because obviously if you've got a bill I think it's 250 million they're spending on one of the five Wales prison and obviously to get up and running that's been in the making for what last five six years presumably.
	So whether that's going to be used for people like us, I have no idea.
	But I certainly agree that the mindset is so negative within the police and people who, you know, there's no nuance.
	It's black and white.
	You either, you know, you're vaccinated or unvaccinated and we're all meant to hate each other.
	And within that atmosphere, those camps do appear to be very sinister.
	That's true.
	Yeah, I mean, that's what sort of bothers me at the moment.
	I'm sort of thinking, well, bullet in the head, fine, but to be in this camp with these people in high-vis jackets telling you what you can and can't do, feeding you shit food, that's going to be really awful.
	Do you think it would get that far?
	What's your opinion in terms of the outcome?
	A little possible.
	A friend of mine has got clairvoyant powers and he's been onto this and I think he knows what's coming.
	I think we all know what's coming in our hearts.
	I think what's going to come next, or at some stage, and you see they've been seeding this reaction, this response in the media, is that they want to put in the minds of the public the idea that the reason that people are being hospitalized at the moment with new variants is because of the stubborn anti-vaxxers who refuse to take the necessary protective measures needed to stop vaccinated people dying.
	Well, There's a flaw in that argument, which is why would you take these vaccines if they're not experimental gene therapy?
	Why would you have that treatment if it doesn't even protect you from getting the bug?
	What is the point?
	But it's amazing how Gullible, malleable the people are because the media has not been doing its job.
	It's not been holding the government account because it's been paid by the government to basically put out pure propaganda.
	And so you've already got media influences like putting out the idea that Anti-vaxxers are selfish.
	They're not just jeopardizing their own lives, they're jeopardizing the lives of the vaccinated.
	It makes no scientific or medical sense, but that is what is happening.
	And I think that the next stage is that the unvaccinated are going to be deliberately scapegoated by the government and they're going to be blamed for what is actually being caused by the AD responses to this gene therapy.
	That's what I think is going to happen.
	I hope I'm right.
	You know, I don't want to be right.
	I so want people to say, yeah, James Dallinpoy, you're such a twat.
	You're completely wrong.
	You're a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.
	It's not looking good, is it?
	I mean, there's so much evidence around of dark things happening.
	There is.
	Do you not feel that even the most ardent followers and rule abiders, even they are beginning to think, hang about, this is feeling weird.
	Do you not feel that there's a slight shift that maybe would scupper what the government have in mind?
	Well, you mentioned at the beginning, you mentioned that human element.
	We are unpredictable.
	And it's possible.
	And if you, I don't know whether you've come across that guy, Cliff High.
	Is it Cliff High?
	I think it is Cliff High.
	He's an American podcaster.
	What he does is he looks at, he analyses word trends on In social media and stuff, I think.
	So he sees what people are talking about and where the conversation is going.
	And he thinks something is going to happen in July, where there's going to be a shift in the public's mood.
	For how much longer can they go on pretending that these adverse reactions to vaccines are just not a thing?
	How many times can they go on using that word rare in front of blood clots, when in fact they're incredibly common blood clots?
	I mean, that's rare being redefined to mean something it doesn't mean.
	Yes, I agree.
	In Milwaukee, I think, one of the senators there wanted to do a conference with parents of children that have been adversely affected by the vaccine.
	And he was really heavily criticised by the governor of the state for being you know for being difficult and controversial and so rather than being supportive and saying no these people need to have their story told we need to hear what the consequences are of this vaccine for some people.
	That wasn't his response at all and I find it quite interesting that one of the messages I get all the time is from people who used to work in the NHS who now say that it's such a political machine now, that it's not purely about medicine, it's about a narrative and about a story.
	Now obviously great medical care is still going on within the NHS, but we have a friend who's a family member who works in the NHS, and they were told in no uncertain terms a few months ago that there was to be no more CPR in the A&E.
	No more CPR.
	If you want to give anybody CPR, you've got to go and get a hazmat suit, you've got to go and sign it off, by which time you come back and the person's dead.
	Yeah, do you remember those days when we used to think that the NHS was there to save us?
	Now we're here to save the NHS.
	Have you ever watched Dr Hilary Jones?
	Have you ever watched him on TV?
	It's extraordinary.
	Dr Hilary.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Did you see him do the CPR thing with the dummy?
	He looked like he was trying to kill the person.
	I mean, I don't know anything about this, but he looked very violent and not like I've seen on other health and safety videos.
	Did he have like a mask?
	Yeah, they covered the mouth, yeah.
	To be fair, doctors are the last people you want doing stuff like CPR or giving you a jab even.
	You notice that when the doctor gives you a jab, they always mess it up.
	You want nurses who do it all the time.
	I've got to the stage where I'm terrified of going anywhere near a hospital or my NHS doctor.
	A, I don't want to be badgered with messages about why haven't you had your jab yet?
	And B, well, I think the whole system is tainted.
	It's like... Yeah, the thing is, one of the most dangerous things, I think, let's imagine a time, if we're hopeful, when this is all over, okay?
	And things will turn to a sort of normality, if they ever do.
	You're right.
	One of the big problems is going to be, whatever happens, trust in some essential organisations has gone.
	Trust in science is very, very shaky now.
	Trust in the government is incredibly shaky, and in politicians.
	Trust in the media is at an all-time low.
	When trust in these fundamental organisations takes such a dip, I think, for society, it's extremely dangerous.
	Because you have to have an element, like with the police, you have to feel that they're on your side, not that they are there to stop you exercising your legitimate rights.
	What did you think of the The Chris Whitty thing with the two lads who wanted a selfie with him.
	Did you see that?
	I think it's this.
	I agree with what's his name?
	Hugo Talks.
	I think there's much that is suspicious about that.
	The quality of the video.
	Oh, I see.
	Right.
	Do you think it was safe?
	One doesn't know, but there were police fans in the background.
	Would you do something like that if you thought you were going to be...?
	It's difficult to know.
	They were pretending they were fans, weren't they?
	And that they wanted a selfie.
	Maybe they were drunk.
	I don't know.
	Yeah.
	What did you feel about the Nick Watts thing, James?
	Did you think that was a set-up or not?
	Same.
	I think that was a set-up.
	I was disappointed but not surprised by Andrew Neil's response, who described the people that were chasing Nick Watts as the baying mob.
	And it was definitely, it's a bit like trying to get one lawyer to criticise another lawyer, it's very tricky.
	So getting one journalist to criticise another is very tricky.
	We're definitely getting this narrative that, which is a complete distortion of the reality, and the narrative is these people that are protesting are, okay, so the They can't deny that we're turning up in large numbers.
	But what they're now doing is saying, yeah, but these people are basically crazy and dangerous.
	They're attacking the chief medical officer.
	I mean, he's a public servant doing his job.
	He's got the best of motives and he's not trying to kill you all.
	Honest.
	And then you've got this, and a BBC, like when, since when is it, was it the prime minister's job to speak out about a panorama editor or, or whatever he does?
	I don't, I don't watch the BBC anymore.
	It's just nonsense.
	In neither instance were they under any kind of threat.
	It was obvious that this was not mob violence.
	mob violence, this was just kind of, assuming it's true, it was just kind of barricading stuff. - Exactly.
	I also think, you know, if you're, I don't know so much about the Chris Whitty thing, but certainly the Nick Watson thing, let's for the sake of argument assume it's genuine.
	I don't think, you don't have to approve it, but you don't necessarily have to show too much surprise.
	Many of those people could have been licensed fee payers.
	Many of those people might have been watching the BBC and now wondering why they're only getting one side of the story and wondering why investigative journalism seems to be absent at the BBC.
	So don't be surprised if, you know, every action demands a reaction.
	And I think it was slightly ridiculous of Andrew Neil to say, to describe these people that he didn't know as a baying mob.
	And that to me, what that told me was that the rot has gone so deep And the ordinary people's views, even if they are expressed in a boisterous way, which is what was the case then, are to be kind of dismissed in a way as being just part of the mob and not to be taken too seriously.
	These people were angry.
	They struck me as being angry.
	I saw a clip yesterday of Loose Women.
	I never watch it, but I saw this clip and Denise Welsh was speaking out and the other women, there was no There was no, they weren't interested in listening at all.
	They were just shaking their heads and, and, and, and, you know, this sort of dismay in their eyes, you know, it was, I mean, really appalling behavior.
	Yeah.
	And what she's doing is voicing an opinion.
	Well, I mean, you can talk.
	about the institutional failure of the music industry, insofar as it is an institution.
	And I can talk about the institutional failure of the media, which has just been, it is throughout, it's just failed to do its job of holding the government to account.
	And it's partly that they're under, you know, people say, well why does talk radio?
	Why have they stopped talking about it, you know, to people who don't like the vaccine?
	And the answer is they're under such huge pressure from Ofcom.
	So you've got this government regulatory body which is supposed to be kind of semi-independent, supposedly representing the interests of the viewer, which actually is doing the government's dirty work and saying, you can't do your job, you can't report on stuff, you can't... I mean, isn't it just like the best... You could imagine there's material for two dozen panoramas on the vaccines, on the procurement, on the untested nature thereof.
	Nothing.
	It's not happening.
	No, I know, I know.
	It's extraordinary to me.
	And if all the institutions were doing their job properly, if science was believable and consistent, and if the government's position was believable, pragmatic and consistent, and if journalism was doing its job, there would not be over one million people on the street.
	That number of people is an indication, it's like a kind of a weathervane, that something is fundamentally askew.
	And it doesn't, you know, you can have many many kinds of interpretations as to what that problem might be, but you have to recognize that that indicates a problem and the government need to address it.
	Now the problem, I think, with this government and the appalling opposition we've got, if you want to call it that, is there are no men, I know it sounds corny, it can make me sound about 120, But there are no men and women of honour on the front benches.
	That's the problem.
	There are one or two people who speak from the heart, I think.
	But broadly speaking, a lot of them are obsessed with focus grouping and polling and everything they think is dependent upon how they think it will be received by their focus group.
	We need people in this country, leading this country, who genuinely believe in a set of fundamental principles.
	Fundamental principles like privacy, like the freedom of conscience, all that stuff, which sounds terribly antiquated now in the world we currently inhabit, but that's what this country needs.
	It needs people who say what they think and believe.
	But doesn't that feed into the argument that people number 10 are not making the decisions, and we're in the middle of a great reset, or whatever name you want to give it, And, you know, the direction, the manipulation, the coercion comes from a different source.
	Oh, I think it does.
	Why is my voice... I'm getting feedback.
	Are you getting... You're not hearing feedback.
	No.
	I wonder why.
	It's annoying.
	You're being hacked, mate.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I probably am.
	There is a drone outside your window with a gun.
	What were we talking about?
	- Yeah.
	- What we're talking about?
	Yeah, oh yeah, I do think- - Oh yeah, I can think I did.
	- It's really annoying.
	I do think that- - That's really weird. - I hope it's not gonna affect the sound.
	I do think that the people in government are just following instructions from higher up.
	I think that they're right.
	Because it's also coordinated.
	It's happened particularly in the Five Eyes nations, for some reason.
	Yes, yes.
	There's something significant about that.
	I mean, Australians are feeling just as badly as we are, so the Kiwis.
	What it's like to be Canadian right now, I mean, imagine.
	Canada is just in pain, isn't it?
	It's horrible.
	And the Kiwis, it's just frightening.
	It's frightening.
	I agree.
	I agree.
	It's-- people can argue.
	I think people get in a way, they get a bit bogged down by the science of the whole thing.
	It's a bit like the Bible in a way.
	You can pretty much prove anything if you know the Bible well enough.
	And I think the science on this is a bit like that.
	So for me it's always, and I'm not a doctor obviously, so my principal position is how is this affecting my ability to lead the life I want, to maintain the privacy I want, and to say what I think.
	That's where I come from.
	And I think every single man, woman and child in this country has the right to make up their own mind without being bullied or coerced.
	And the minute you say to somebody, you know, you can work here if you get the jab, that to me is breaking the apartment code and it's breaking a fundamental principle of freedom of choice.
	And without rattling on for too long, we have started, we allowed this to happen and it's been happening now since the 60s.
	The minute we allowed, you know, the state to move inside your car that you've bought, when you buy a car you buy the space inside it, but we allowed the state to come into that space and say you must wear a seat belt.
	Now, I'm not against seatbelts.
	I think they're a good idea.
	But we have to understand what that is philosophically.
	That is philosophically allowing the state into your space and telling you how to behave.
	That's what it is.
	Then it was cigarettes.
	You can't smoke cigarettes.
	Now we can't even look at them, apparently.
	So when you get us into a shop, it's all screened up.
	It's like the way they roll back a silver thing at you.
	You know, I think we've, you know. - And apparently they're gonna ban you smoking in pub gardens next.
	- Is that serious?
	- Seriously, it's not even a joke.
	How does that work?
	I mean, you know, this is how these people operate.
	I wrote a book called Watermelons about the whole climate change industry, which is a sort of precursor to the whole COVID industry.
	And one of the things I talked about is the You know passive smoking?
	You know about passive smoking?
	We all know that that's the only reason why they ban smoking in pubs because otherwise it would be an imposition on people's freedoms if the only person you're harming is yourself.
	So they had to invent this reason.
	So these scientists called Enstrom and Kabat, I think they were, did the largest ever survey on passive smoking.
	It was over a period, I think, of 10 years and it had a massive number of people in the survey.
	And it was initially supported by all the kind of cancer charities, because obviously when the survey revealed the truth, it was going to be incontrovertible that passive smoking was a terrible thing.
	Anyway, a couple of years into the study, they realized it wasn't going to go the way that they were expecting it to.
	And they thought, well, we're going to stick to the evidence.
	And you know, if the evidence shows us that passive smoking is just a
	like a meme it's just like a made-up thing um that's you know after all we're scientists and we're serving the truth anyway as soon as this became clear all the cancer charities um removed their support and they had to they had to i think they had to continue with they could only where they continue was with support of the um the tobacco industry so of course it completely because even though what they said was was scientifically honest um the other side could just say well this was sponsored by by big tobacco of course
	Yes, yes, yes.
	I think where we are now is the product of decades.
	It is.
	We've been ground down.
	Yes, we have, absolutely.
	No, I agree on that.
	The smoking thing, what I never understood right from the beginning is why the issue of choice was not the central pillar around which all this was hung.
	If I was running a restaurant, I wanted to make it a smoking only restaurant and I went out of business.
	That is my problem.
	It's my fault and I should take responsibility for that.
	The government decided not to give you the choice.
	They decided not to give business the choice.
	They decided not to give anybody the choice and they banned it.
	So right there and then you can see the prohibition is much closer to their hearts than choice.
	That's what we're dealing with.
	People who are not philosophically grounded in notions of privacy, freedom of choice, freedom of conscience, all that stuff.
	And until we find politicians that are, we're going to be dealing with this.
	That's the truth.
	I think it's almost worse than that though.
	I think they've already decided the direction of travel and then they just fit, they invent the evidence to fit what they want to achieve.
	So they want to get everyone vaccinated in order to have so-called vaccine passports which are ultimately going to be kind of biochips which are going to be a way of controlling us in different ways.
	So they then invent all this shit about Oh yeah, the Indian variant, which is now the kind of Delta variant.
	And this is just made up stuff!
	I mean, you've heard Mike Yeadon, haven't you?
	He says that, okay, assuming that this is a real virus as opposed to just kind of rebadged flu, So suppose it is SARS-CoV-2.
	Well, what he says is that people who've been exposed even tangentially to the SARS-CoV-1 still have the T cell antibodies which render them either immune or at least they're not going to get harmed by SARS-CoV-2.
	So the idea of these kind of minute variations, it's just bullshit.
	It is bullshit, yeah.
	I don't know, but somebody told us the other day about the Scottish variant.
	Have you heard about that?
	No, what does it do?
	Well, apparently it's easy to spot because it's tartan.
	And the spike proteins are little pipes.
	Do you hear it?
	And you can always hear it coming.
	It's very painful.
	You don't want to go anywhere near that.
	You've got to wear...
	No, the one that made me laugh particularly was the Kent variant.
	Yes, I know.
	Do you remember the Kent variant?
	That came and went, didn't it?
	That came and went, didn't it?
	Yeah.
	So, I agree.
	The chaos.
	You know, you walk into a restaurant, the table will be right by the door, they'll put their mask on when they walk into the restaurant, they'll walk three feet, sit down and take the mask off.
	It's the theatre of the madness.
	The virus knows.
	The virus knows whether you're going to the loo, which case you have to wear a mask.
	I know.
	The thing is, James, if we have a scientist come out of SAGE saying we've done a lot more research on this, we now know that the virus only exists three feet and above in the air.
	So if you crawl around With a hat on, you can avoid it.
	You will be completely immune.
	People would.
	I'm telling you, some people would.
	Did you hear about the... I think it was a 4chan prank, meme, whatever.
	It was on one of the chat sites where they invented this rumor that tenor voices vibrate at a level which transmits the virus more than, say, a baritone or a soprano would.
	Okay, and then this was picked up on by the Welsh government and Mark Drigford issued this directive saying, um, choirs when they're practicing they shouldn't, you shouldn't have a tenor or the tenor should be especially careful because the people would just believe this stuff.
	Yeah, absolutely, once like the pollen thing It's now, apparently it travels the earth on pollen.
	And the other thing the other day was get your pets jabbed.
	Remember that?
	If you have a dog, get your dog jabbed.
	Yes, it is.
	People will be doing that.
	Yeah, they will be doing that.
	Yeah, they will.
	I just, I don't know my fellow man like I thought I did.
	That's all I can say now.
	I can tell, talking to you two, that you feel rather as I do, that this is pretty much the end but we've just got to be cheerful about it and just, you know, be of good heart.
	Yeah, Charlie Chaplin once said, in the face of laughter nothing can stand.
	And I think you've just got to keep laughing at these idiots and hope they go away.
	But I think we are getting to a tipping point.
	And I think there is a time for discourse and logic, I think, has passed now.
	I don't think that that makes a difference to political policy at all.
	No, it doesn't.
	I think the only thing that's going to make a difference to political policy, fundamentally, is a massive turnout on the streets.
	I think we're going to need two or three million people on the street To make it absolutely clear that this will not stand.
	Well, I think when furloughs stop, surely that's going to trigger a whole load of upset, trauma.
	You'd hope.
	I mean, I think Orwell was right.
	If there's any hope, it lies with the proles.
	I mean, university educated people.
	have been pretty pretty stupid throughout yes yes it's the kind of people it's the plumbers it's the guy who comes to put on your satellite um dish people like that they know they know the school but uni educated people are just like gone i think And I think we're going to need massive civil disobedience.
	I'm a peace and love kind of guy.
	I'd love to have been in World War II, obviously, being a hero, charging the German machine gun nests.
	That would have been cool, had I been there.
	But I haven't been trained for violence.
	I don't know how it works.
	No, no.
	I agree with you.
	I agree.
	I mean, I think it's... we grew up with... our father was the sort of guy who would put chains on his ties in August, just in case.
	You know, so we grew up in that very sort of collective, you know, be very careful kind of thing.
	And we're not trained for it either, but I just have this, I just have a feeling when we did it, we did on the march of the day, we did an interview for NTD and this guy started shouting COVID idiots at us while we were doing the chat.
	Oh yeah.
	And I just, I just flew at him.
	I mean, I just lost my, I lost my mojo completely.
	He didn't half leg it.
	And he legged it.
	I just walked towards him looking much more scary than I really am.
	And he liked it, yeah.
	But that, it makes me so angry when people are not, just, when they don't think.
	Everybody has, have the courage to use your own intellect, as the saying goes.
	And so if you want to wear a mask, know what you're going to, why you're wearing it, what sort of mask works, who's told you to do this, what you expect it's going to do, will it harm your lungs, will it harm your skin, know all this.
	You know and the pack when you buy these blue masks that you see everybody wearing on the packet it says not for medical use.
	Yeah that's what it said on the packet you know so you know idiocy I have no time for idiocy at all I'm sorry I just don't and I think People in the limelight, people like Elton John or Springsteen or the Foo Fighters, are an absolute disgrace.
	They're a disgrace.
	And I grew up as a monarchist, but I think the Queen was a complete disgrace when she had herself being jabbed, supposedly, and had it filmed.
	If she wants the jab, that's fine.
	It's a personal decision and it's nobody else's business.
	The minute you point a camera at it, it's propaganda.
	I've been a monarchist, I've been a fan of the Queen especially all my life and that was the relationship over for me.
	I could not, I'm no longer a monarchist or a royalist.
	I think they can, the royal family can stick it.
	I think that was absolutely betrayal of the Constitution.
	Yes, I agree.
	Yeah, it is, yeah.
	Also, you know, for me, I've always felt that when the government overstepped the line, there was always that firm, as they call it, in position as a bulwark against the government.
	You know, the state overreaching, you know?
	She's the head of state.
	She represents the people.
	She does not represent the government.
	She represents the people.
	And as a consequence of that, I think she reneged on her duty at that moment when she had that filmed.
	And seeing Prince Charles at the WAF, Prince William in the same kind of company, It's not good.
	No, do you remember when we were sort of growing up and we sort of imagined if there was ever going to be a civil war, you know, if you had a rerun of Parliament versus the royalists, you just knew that the royal family and the army would be on your side and standing up for Britishness and defending our country.
	And look at what's happened.
	I mean, the Queen's sold us down the river, you know, to Big Pharma.
	And the military, where we thought that they're going to have these old-fashioned values, they're going to defend us, they've all surrendered to the jab too.
	So that if you don't get the jab, you know, you don't get to stay in the army now or near as damaged.
	They're all being forced to take it.
	Well, okay, how is that going to work out?
	I mean, number one, politically and ideologically.
	So you've now got the army committed to the same cause as Bill Gates and Big Pharma and all the bad guys.
	And number two, you've got the possibility of fighting men falling sick this winter because of ADE responses.
	I mean, this is the worry, isn't it?
	It's going to attack healthy young people.
	They're spike proteins going haywire.
	When I saw the Eric Clapton piece to camera, he was very honest.
	He couldn't use his hands for two or three weeks.
	He said it went into his body and completely jumbled up his natural immune system to the point where nothing seemed to make sense.
	Now, for somebody in his position and his career path, Not being able to use your hands is extremely frightening.
	I mean that would be his life over.
	And yet when he merely told the story about how he felt, that's all he did, and he was pilloried for it.
	And he actually said the phone rings less now than it did before.
	There's a lack of A lack of empathy and a lack of, you know, when you say to somebody, I'm not going to take the vaccine, they don't sort of nod and say, well, that's, you know, it's up to you.
	They sort of look at you like you're an absolute idiot, you know, an unthinking fool.
	It's very sad.
	I like some of the comments you get online.
	They say, I had my second jab three weeks ago and I've still got blurred vision.
	Is that normal?
	Are you bonkers?
	There's a guy on, he does a radio show, a guy called Russ Kane.
	And he was the same thing, you know, I've had my second jab and three weeks later I feel dreadful and this has happened and that's happened.
	But apparently it's still the right thing to do because, I mean, the brainwashing is just extraordinary.
	Well I thought the Andrew Marr thing was interesting, wasn't it?
	The Andrew Marr thing.
	I've had both jabs and I've had a dose of Covid.
	I must tell you, it wasn't very funny.
	Yes.
	It's become a badge of honour, hasn't it?
	It's like, my hangover is just the worst hangover ever.
	Wait till you hear mine.
	I've gone blind in one eye.
	I've lost a leg.
	I've lost a leg.
	I've had the menopause and I've started having periods again.
	That ain't what happens when you go for your flu shot or even your yellow fever jab.
	I've had those.
	I didn't have reactions lasting several weeks and life impairing.
	Also, there are scientists that I've seen on the feed talking about the lack of knowledge about the lymph glands and the reason it goes into the shoulder and the lymph glands not filtering out these spike proteins.
	With more traditional vaccines, the lymph glands act as a kind of filter to prevent certain parts of the vaccine entering into the general body, you know, the lungs and the heart.
	With the spike protein, as I understand it, I'm not a medical person, but as I understand it, the spike protein, the lymph glands do not have the ability to filter that out, so that it can get the spike proteins can go into your lungs and into your heart and into your blood.
	And into your brain, the brain barrier, through the brain barrier to perform play.
	So yeah, now I don't know whether any of this is true.
	All I think is there's enough doubt there Certainly for the government to say, let's just pause everything.
	We're not sure what's going on here.
	We need to do some more research.
	But they seem immune to any possibility that it's harming people.
	They don't want to hear from people that have been harmed.
	And there's a general kind of silence that's very unusual, I think.
	Another scientist was saying, with any other vaccine in the past, if there had been this many adverse reactions this quickly, we would have taken it off the market immediately.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I think that's true.
	But with this, well, no, apparently the governments are still banging on about, you know, getting tested and having it done and having it boosted, you know.
	The thing is...
	Again, talking to you, I get the feeling that you feel the same as I do, that all we want to do is to be left alone to live our lives as we choose to lead them, to take whatever risks we're prepared to take with our own lives.
	We don't want to, you know, we don't want to bother anybody else.
	I would be very happy right now if, if Britain was divided into, into sectors and, you know, there were kind of sectors for the, for the unvaccinated where we just lived a kind of an agrarian existence with our, you know, we grew our own food, but they're not even going to for the unvaccinated where we just lived a kind of an agrarian existence with They're not going to leave us alone.
	They're going to punish us.
	They're going to.
	That's true.
	Are you from the mindset about the food shortages that are being talked about?
	Yes.
	This is not an urban myth.
	I've heard from so many different sources that they have They are deliberately engineering food sources in a number of ways.
	I mean, you think the use of agricultural land being taken over by solar farms, which generates sod all electricity at massive taxpayer expense.
	So they're giving farmers huge subsidies because we know from that Jeremy Clarkson program how hard it is to make a living from actual farm.
	Have you seen Clarkson's farm yet?
	Yeah.
	It's great, isn't it?
	And by the way, have you noticed how much red tape he has to put up with just to earn a living?
	And you ask yourself, why is that red tape there?
	It's designed to make farming harder.
	So land being given over to solar farms, you've got people like Bill Gates buying up, I mean, he's now the biggest owner of farmland in America.
	What's he going to do with that?
	You've got the rewilding campaign, which again, you see, this makes me wonder whether this has not been planned for a long time.
	Why were they talking about rewilding so long ago?
	They were talking about rewilding because, again, they want to take away agricultural land and give it over to wildflowers and, I don't know, whatever, wolves and things.
	I mean, that's going to work, isn't it?
	Wolves.
	Bring back the wolf.
	Bring back the sea eagle.
	They've got seagulls in the north of Scotland which have been reintroduced, which are kind of doing what seagulls do, which is Taking, swooping down, taking lambs.
	So you've got, you've got farmers being persecuted by these kind of weirdy environmentalists.
	So you've, you've got that.
	And then you've got the actual supply chain.
	You've got them allowing food to rot in warehouses, and they're going to blame it all on Brexit or something else.
	Or maybe, maybe the lorry drivers have had, had And this is going to translate into massive shortages, which are going to... Well, I mean, I don't know how bad it's going to get.
	Are we going to get famines?
	Are we going to get people dying of starvation?
	Or are we just going to get... How far down the road, James, do you think that is?
	The reality of food shortages?
	Oh, well, I mean, we're going to... In the next few weeks, we're going to start experiencing the food shortages thing.
	Definitely.
	So there's that.
	So there's going to be the AD reactions and adverse reactions to the vaccine.
	People dying of that.
	There's going to be the food shortages.
	There's going to be the other thing that really frightens me.
	At the beginning of all this, I wasn't, I was not a conspiracy theorist.
	I thought it was all just bollocks.
	I used to think, what possible motivation would they have for faking airplanes flying into the, or you know, why would they encourage, why would they allow that to happen deliberately?
	You know, they wouldn't do that.
	They care for us.
	They're like, No.
	And I went to the very earliest protest and the people in Hyde Park, which was I think it was in beginning of April last year, I almost got, I got threatened with arrest even then.
	Why?
	I don't know.
	And Most of the people there were anti-vax, they were anti-5G and stuff, and I thought, you know, well, you know, these are the crazies, um, but, you know, nice to have them here, nice, nice, nice turnout, uh, and I recently saw the footage of one of a 5G transmitter on a, on a housing estate, probably somewhere up north, and there was a tree next to it, and
	one side of the tree the the bark has just all just like come off and all the leaves on that side have just died it's like it's unreal really now yeah this is this is all coordinated in a really scary way And we're just going, yeah, well, we've got a new health secretary now.
	The Sarge is going to short things.
	He's not like that nasty Matt Hancock.
	You know, it's like classic bad cop, Mr. Nasty, Mr. Nice.
	They're the same.
	They're playing for the same team.
	Absolutely.
	One hundred percent.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Well, I have to say, it would seem to me that the opposition is to the opposition.
	Oh, yeah.
	Mr. Starmer isn't accidental.
	It cannot be.
	We're using all the trilateral commission who are pushing all this.
	Yes, exactly.
	There is no opposition with us.
	No, the people are stuck in the middle.
	The people have nobody speaking for them.
	The press isn't doing it.
	A lot of people in showbiz and civil liberties aren't doing it.
	And the people are stuck in the middle, losing their jobs, losing their access to their families, not being able to go to their parents' funeral or whatever it is, not being able to go on holiday.
	It's the people in the middle who are beginning to get shafted, unless they do something about it.
	Chats like this make any difference.
	I mean, I think it's really good that I've got you two because people know you and we might convert a few people, mightn't we?
	I wouldn't want to convert anybody to what we think.
	I just want people to think for themselves.
	That's all I want them to do.
	I don't want them to feel that they owe a duty of loyalty to any government or anybody they don't actually know.
	These people that we've elected are not friends of ours.
	They're people that we don't know in any real way.
	So we should not trust them automatically.
	You must trust your own ability to decide for yourself What is the right course of action to take in any given situation?
	The problem is, is that for many years now, we have been encouraged to defer to the state for everything.
	It's a religion.
	We look to the state for advice on what to eat, whether we should smoke, how much we should drink, you know, how much exercise we should take.
	None of this is the state's business.
	None of it.
	The state can advise.
	That's all it can do.
	But we drove into London the other day.
	Londoners, get your dose.
	NHS.
	I'm sorry, this is inexcusable propagandizing, whatever the word is.
	Sorry, I do hope this does make a difference, this kind of chat.
	But I don't want to be waving the finger at anybody, I just want them to think for themselves and stop thinking.
	It's exactly the same.
	When ITV on their news reports the winner of their Last talent show competition, or the BBC on their new show, Report the Winner of the Voice.
	You're faking news.
	Because that's not news.
	But news has become entertainment.
	And I think now when you look at TV, you've got shows that tell you, if you want to get really cynical, it's what to cook, what to wear, what to listen to, where to go.
	It's this lifestyle in a box sent to you via your TV.
	it's this lifestyle in a box sent to you via your TV.
	Yeah, by the government.
	By the government.
	Yes.
	Yeah, right at the very beginning when we had, do you remember a couple of years ago, the whole thing was about austerity and obesity and all that stuff.
	And so the minute COVID happened, what struck me as being an open goal was this is the perfect opportunity for the government to get busy on encouraging people to think about their health, their immune system, their weight, their sleep patterns, whether they're smoking too much, whether they're drinking.
	That was the moment.
	But they didn't.
	They didn't.
	And they knew that.
	No, they didn't go down that road.
	The road they went down was finger-whacking and fines.
	That's where they went, and that tells you all you need to know about them.
	It does.
	It suggests that this is not about health.
	It's about something else.
	Because if it was about health, they'd be giving us ivermectin.
	Vitamin D. Vitamin D, exactly.
	Well, yeah.
	I know.
	But let's not depress people too much.
	Well, actually, they should be depressed.
	They should be, you know... They're depressed the full weekend, yes.
	One of the best things about... Well, one of the few good things to come out of all this is that I've just met the most wonderful people.
	I mean, you know, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation now if it hadn't been for this.
	And I just...
	I just loved hugging people at the march.
	It was just really fantastic.
	So that alone ought to be enough to bring people onto our side.
	You have much more fun, much more love on our side.
	But also I've been thinking, you know, we don't know how bad things are going to get and this could be our last moments in the sun.
	So I've sort of resolved to cherish the good moments, like getting on a horse and jumping over fences.
	I've been doing that recently and it's just It's great and also I've decided what I want to do is a kind of random acts of kindness for people who I think, you know, so many people have suffered in this and I'll give you, this is my first random act of kindness I'm going to do on this show and it's good because it's got YouTube and lots of people will watch it.
	My kids are at university in Durham and there's a lovely Japanese sushi place which has opened up and it's called Ding's Way.
	D-I-N-G-S-W-A-Y.
	And I looked at this place, and I walked past it, and my daughter was going there that evening.
	And anyway, she went there.
	And they said, we've been open for three weeks, and hardly anyone knows about us.
	And, you know, if you like the food, will you put out a word?
	And she had really good, really good sushi there.
	And then my son went there afterwards.
	And I was just thinking, it really upsets me that a good... Restaurants and takeaways, I mean, restaurants particularly, have really suffered.
	Anyone in the hospitality industry deserves support.
	So I hope that if anyone is near Durham, they go to this place Ding's Way.
	I want them to do well.
	I want good people to benefit somehow.
	So that's my little...
	I agree.
	I completely agree.
	And the local restaurant we go to all the time.
	And it's nice to see them doing business now because they can actually see people outside.
	And I don't really want to talk to them about the next lockdown because they've had enough of it.
	You haven't warned them about October?
	No, I've heard about it.
	I know everyone says they know someone, but there's someone we spoke to in a government, actually not a UK government, and they said the lockdown started in July.
	Now, I don't know if they're right, I have no idea, but that's what they claim.
	No, no, exactly.
	I don't know.
	I just wish people would value the things that they take for granted.
	The ability to go into a shop and browse without being- I do miss browsing!
	Browsing.
	I miss browsing.
	The ability to walk around without paying attention to arrows.
	The ability to sit in your pub and have a smoke.
	These really simple pleasures, if you deny them repeatedly, over and over again, it is a crushing thing, as you said earlier.
	It does crush the human spirit.
	And if our father came back now, having had his arse hanging out over the edge of the ship, In the North Atlantic in 1942.
	And he comes back and he has to wear a mask to go into the pub.
	He has to sit down and use a QR code to order a beer.
	Justify who he is.
	Justify who he is.
	Put his name down in his phone.
	He would wonder what he had done.
	What was the point?
	I think at that point he would have gone back in time and surrendered to Hitler early.
	Because whatever happened under Hitler, it couldn't be nearly as bad as what they're No, I think, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
	Let's be cheerful.
	Chaps, it's been so good talking to you and yeah, I hope that more musicians do come out for, when is it, 24th you say?
	Yes, 24th.
	July 24th, yes, yeah.
	And I sort of just want to say, I sort of feel sorry for some of the people who thought, you know, who want to hear the alternative voice and they're stuck with Right Said Fred.
	Or Jim Corr.
	People that they maybe thought, you know, they're expecting Slipknot or, I don't know, some punk band.
	One bloke said to us, he said, of all the punk bands in the world, it turns out that the blokes singing about I'm too sexy for my shirt are the ones that are speaking out.
	It's very strange.
	The irony of it.
	It does make us laugh.
	Where's Billy Bragg?
	Mr. Angry lives in Wiltshire or somewhere.
	Ian Brown's quite cool, isn't he?
	Where are the Stone Roses in your audience?
	Van Morrison has done some stuff.
	But I have to say, it's all very well doing stuff online and making little records and all that.
	What we need is feet on the street.
	We need Van Morrison at the next demo.
	We need Ian Brown at the next demo.
	That's what we need.
	And we need every possible high-flying musician who doesn't necessarily have to buy into all what I think, but they have to be supportive of those musicians and people in their industry who have been ruined by this.
	And there are millions of them.
	So just as an indication of support, they should be there.
	I agree.
	It's about defending the old normal, isn't it?
	We want our old normal back.
	Yeah, and the right to go out and play a song, the right to stand in the street and not be moved on by a copper.
	These things are important and we can't let them go too easily, we mustn't.
	Well, Richard and Fred, thank you so much.
	May I remind my lovely listeners, if you've enjoyed this podcast, don't forget to support me on Patreon or Subscribestar or go to my website dellingpoleworld.com where you can get special friend badges.
	You'll find this on Odyssey and uh all the other places that yeah it probably won't be on YouTube because there's because there's stuff that will get me banned but that's that's where we're going but yeah thanks a lot it's been it's been really great and look i'm i hope i'm gonna see you at the next march oh yes exactly i hope so absolutely yes look forward to it brilliant right thanks a lot thank you

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