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May 3, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:08:28
Naomi Wolf
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Welcome to the DellingPod with me, James DellingPod.
And I know I always say I'm really excited about this week's special guest, but I've got Naomi Wolf.
And this is so unlikely, Naomi.
I mean, I don't know whether you know anything about me at all.
You probably don't.
But I can say that five years ago, the idea that you and I would be breaking bread, I mean, I don't know, you know, I sort of bracketed you with, with the other Naomi, you know, Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolf.
What's the difference?
They're both kind of lefty feminists.
They hate people like me.
And now here we are.
I mean, I think we are allies in a much, much bigger war and you've been fighting a really good fight.
So congratulations.
Thank you so much.
It's far from over, but I appreciate that.
Tell me about it.
It's far from over.
It's not even the beginning.
It's not even the end of the beginning, I don't think.
But I'm really intrigued because you wrote a book.
When was it?
1991, you wrote The Beauty Myth?
Something like that, yeah.
Yeah, ages ago.
I mean, you were a feminist.
Well, I'm sure you still are a feminist, but you know, I would have held you responsible at the time for all manner of horrors, you know, kind of this sort of hating men and giving sort of people like my daughter crazy ideas about Anyway, I don't want to go there.
I just want to ask you, first of all, when did you start going down the rabbit hole?
Because there was a point, wasn't there, where you started going down the rabbit hole and you started thinking, well, rather as I do, that the world is rather more complicated than the one we grew up to believe.
Not sure what you mean by the rabbit hole.
I would contest that phrase.
I had the experience, which affected my thinking very much, of having been an advisor for two presidential campaigns and being in the rooms where a handful of people are deciding messaging.
And I had the experience, which anyone who's worked on a presidential campaign knows is standard, of the decisions made about the goal, And then the message shop is called in to create a story to get people to that goal, and they have no relationship to each other.
So, you know, that kind of analysis can be called a conspiracy theory, I suppose, but it's actually the way high level politics operates and people who think it isn't are naive.
I, listen, I totally would not use the word conspiracy theorist because I think that apart from anything else that phrase was designed to discredit people who are just trying to find out the truth.
And often the truth is, is also what the people responsible for these conspiracies want to dismiss as conspiracy theorists.
But no, I, I, I've, I've forgotten.
Well, I call that the rabbit hole.
I mean, I call, look, the fact that you've had, you've had a ringside seat in the, in the corridors of power.
I'm mixing my metaphors here, but you've seen it firsthand, the kind of wag the dog type scenarios that these people are not acting in good faith.
They're not telling us the truth, are they?
Well, again, James, I would, you know, I'm actually an old style journalist.
So I always feel like I just keep doing the same thing.
I just keep reporting and providing evidence.
I'm an independent journalist.
So that means I'm not bought by the interests that are buying up a lot of, sadly, a lot of mainstream news outlets right now and shaping news coverage.
Like all of them.
But I just, almost all of them, I just look for the evidence and present it to readers.
I haven't changed.
The world has changed.
And a lot of what used to be objective journalism has become really, in effect, propaganda for those writing the checks.
But I do, if what you're talking about is our current world situation in which a handful of bad actors are creating a biofascist state using a real medical emergency, which is less of a medical emergency, as cover, I'm happy to To address that, I mean, there are a handful of bad actors doing that, and they are lying to us.
But if you have some other subject, I'm happy to engage with it as well.
This is one that's been present in my work.
I was warming up to that one.
I was warming up to that one.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I jumped right in.
Oh, no, totally.
No, listen, I mean, we've got to talk about the biosecurity state.
We've got to talk about all of that stuff.
But, you see, You've worked with Al Gore, who I would consider very much part of the problem.
You've worked with Clinton, who I would again Well, in the past I would have thought, you know, Democrats bad, Republicans good.
But of course now I realize that they're all part of the same problem.
I mean, absolutely.
I used to think, this is how naive I was, I used to think the Americans were the good guys.
I used to think the CIA was, okay, a bit dodgy in some of its operations, but basically on the side of The West, let's say.
I used to believe in all these things.
I don't believe in any of them anymore.
And I was wondering whether you...
In your earlier career, because I mean, we're both journalists, we've both, you know, I mean, I've been a journalist for, well, all my working life.
It's only fairly recently that I realized how corrupt the world really is, how much it is controlled by a few bad actors.
Before that, I really believed the narrative.
I was wondering whether there was a kind of key moment in your In your development as a journalist, as a grown-up, what you suddenly saw behind the mirror?
Gosh, you're asking a very complex question, James.
I mean, I am a big believer in the integrity of institutions, and they are under threat and being corrupted right now at an industrial scale, the institutions of the West.
You know, from government to the media, as we discussed, to even science and medicine, which is really shocking, and the academy.
But I wouldn't say there was a moment where I realized they were all corrupt.
I do think that, you know, I've documented kind of pressures to corrupt discourse, to corrupt medicine in one of my books, Misconceptions, to corrupt Media, you know, that's an ongoing struggle.
But it is definitely the case that in the last year, the corruption has become unveiled in a massive way.
And the those who were gatekeepers to maintain, you know, the integrity of our Western institutions have either been bought off or are being bullied and silenced.
And that is pretty scary.
It has historical antecedents.
We've seen this before in countries where A democracy has been targeted by those who want to create an oligarchy or a tyrannical state, whether it's on the left or the right.
I wrote a book about that, The End of America, in 2007.
It all has been coming true.
But I do want to also validate what you just said about your own partisanship or evolving sense of partisanship.
You know, you are you are noting rightly that I'm talking to a lot of conservatives and libertarians these days.
I am.
I'll talk to anyone about the Constitution.
It is also, unfortunately, the case that, you know, my own team, I voted for Biden, is ushering in some of the most autocratic, terrifying, one-party-state-type policies.
You know, subverting of individual rights and freedoms, subverting of human rights.
I have to call that out if I have any integrity.
But in your country, it's the Tories.
You know, in France, it's Macron.
Canada, it's Trudeau.
So this is not a partisan issue.
And so the last thing I'll say about the partisan question is what we are seeing globally is a realignment in which, you know, heads of state from across the political spectrum are ushering in the same lockstep Subversions of democracy, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to leave your house, right?
And there is a new alignment that I hope will grow that I'm honored to be part of, of people who thought they were enemies, ideologically, but who realized that it is time to join forces across the lesser things that divide us in order to retain our rights and freedoms.
And that's what's happening in the United States, certainly.
It's not just happening in the US, it's happening across the world.
At the moment, there seem to be very few of us.
We're both journalists.
I have been so disappointed by the failure of my colleagues, my former comrades, to talk about this stuff, to talk about what's really going on.
I'm pretty much the only journalist in the UK right now.
There may be two or three more.
People I would have considered, you know, the guys standing next to me in the trench fighting the good fight, they've just abandoned their positions.
They've just like been bought and paid for or they've been too reluctant to leave the confines of the Overton window.
They want to preserve their career in the mainstream rather than tell the truth.
I imagine that's been your experience in the US as well.
It's worse in Britain from what I've been observing.
There's a lot of groups think in journalism in America, of course, but there's also a vibrant kind of alternative media scene here.
And, you know, conservatives, I'm sorry to say again, as a non-conservative, are really leading the way on that.
They've been de-platformed en masse from platforms like Twitter and Facebook.
And so they're creating their own networks and social media platforms.
And so there is more ability to dissent here.
It's not good, though.
However, Britain is terrifying.
I mean, it's like they've effectively created a bubble.
I think the fact that you're an island has helped that.
The same thing happened to New Zealand, to Australia, due to their being able to be isolated.
But from what I see, and I love my friends and loved ones in Britain, and I feel like I'm kind of an honorary transatlantic citizen, it's terrifying.
There is a complete media vacuum, huge amounts, millions of pounds have gone into, as has been documented, probably not in mainstream media, into ad campaigns to terrify the people of Britain and to create a kind of Two-tier society, marginalizing and ostracizing dissenters.
Same thing has happened in Israel, actually.
It's starting to happen here.
And I do get contacted by journalists in Britain who are like, I really want to tell the truth, but I'm afraid I'll lose my job.
And they're scared.
We've documented the tens of millions of pounds that the Gates Foundation has written checks for to the BBC, to the Telegraph, even to The Guardian.
So, you know, coming from journalism, I know that if you are the Telegraph or the Guardian, 3.4 million pounds, 12 million pounds, it's the difference between, you know, survival and death as a news site.
And I understand the temptation, but, you know, you can accept early on, oh, sure, that's, you know, COVID information money.
But then when it gets down to there's only one story about vaccines, there's only one story about You know, distorting the science around transmission.
There's only one story about vaccine passports.
It's really quite terrifying.
And I also see that that money is going into targeting critics, targeting people like Sunetra Gupta at Oxford, a distinguished epidemiologist who was one of the signers of the Great Barrington Declaration, which was hosted by a think tank I'm affiliated with now, AIER.
And she is just relentlessly attacked in British news outlets that are paid for by Gates money.
So it's a very ugly situation.
There have always been pressures on independent media, commercial pressures, the struggle to keep advertising from affecting editorial content has always been the core struggle of independent journalism.
But the corruption has gone past skewing the news and is really going into kind of a 1933 German, you know, model of ostracizing, bullying, reputational attacks, you know, closing doors institutionally.
I mean, look what happened to me.
I brought up a link to Justia.com, which is where patents are.
I posted, I drafted a tweet, I didn't even post it, to my 130,000 followers on Twitter, saying Dr. Fauci has There should be an inquiry, because that can raise conflicts of interest if you're getting money from patents, if any of them are involved in any of the policies he's promoting.
And my account was frozen as I drafted this tweet.
The same week, CNN attacked me, Media Matters attacked me.
There's, I think, attacks coming out in other news outlets.
You know, it's very coordinated, as it appears.
And we found the You know, the campaigns that actually fund the targeting of influencers who are raising questions about the dominant narrative.
So it is pretty scary.
That's fascinating.
So they must have been effectively spying on you as you drafted the tweet?
Well, it's not as spooky as you might think.
I'm CEO of a tech company.
It's a little tech company, but it's a tech company nonetheless.
Twitter's a private platform.
They can do what they want.
They have no obligation to not censor me.
But it does mean that their algorithm was scanning my, you know, had highlighted Naomi Wolf, Fauci, Patton.
I see.
It wasn't a human being.
Okay.
It was probably an algorithm.
But that's still, that's, that's still... It's very scary.
I mean, it's very scary.
And honestly, my book, my most recent book is about censorship.
You know, if I can be kicked off for drafting a thought, it's like pre-crime, right?
It's very Orwellian.
You could be kicked off for composing, you know, something related to some other issue about fossil fuels, if, you know, if that's the Czech writer of the day.
And since most of our, you know, since the lockdown has forced most of us, especially in Britain, into not leaving our homes and being forced onto these tech platforms, which I can Speak to the reason for that as a tech company CEO.
It's very valuable to tech companies that are up two to three digit billions since the pandemic started.
It does mean that all of our speech is being mediated through these platforms that can silence us or kick us off or, you know, mute us basically from having an impact on our culture.
Yeah, actually, where do we go?
Because, you know, there's lots of places like there's Rumble, there's, well, there's Gab, isn't there?
Have you worked out yet where the new place we can go to, where we're not going to get censored and where we can have, where we can reach a wide audience?
Well, tell me, I mean, tell me a little more about Britain, right, because you know better than I do.
I mean, how are people Who are critical of the dominant narrative convening in Britain right now?
Listen, I was on the march yesterday through London.
I would say there were at least 50,000 and probably more.
The length of Oxford Street, you know Oxford Street, sort of almost to the sides, we were marching down and it was as if, as far as the mainstream media was concerned, it is if the march had never taken place.
They tried to airbrush it out of existence or at best you might get kind of Snarky comments from BBC journalists saying that we were conspiracy theorists, you know, anti-vaxxers, all the loaded terms they want to... And this was basically people who've had enough of the lockdown, who understand that vaccine passports are the way to a Chinese-style social credit system.
I mean, I think we were an informed crowd.
We know what's going on.
But I can tell you, as a journalist, I've watched my colleagues fall by the wayside.
I am basically considered just like whatever happened to James Dillingpole.
He's just a Really?
Oh, totally.
Crazy, crazy guy.
And just for doing my job.
I have not changed.
The reason I went into journalism, I thought it'd be fun, but I just thought it was the job of journalists to seek out the truth without fear or favor, because it's kind of interesting.
It's interesting.
Do you know one thing?
Maybe the fundamental characteristic that journalists have or ought to have is curiosity.
It's like, So we're always asking questions.
We want to know what's really happening rather than what we're being told is happening.
And yet every journalist in Britain, and a lot in America too, has said to himself or herself, nah, I think I'll just stick to the, you know, do what my paymasters consider to be acceptable and no further.
I find that terrifying and I don't think that your analogy to Germany in the 1930s was at all misplaced.
I've got very used to these kind of techniques that they use to close people like us down, inconvenient voices like us down, so they'll say things like How dare you invoke Nazi Germany and the Jewish experience to describe, this is nothing like, well, of course, it's very much like it, you know, this is just history repeating itself in a slightly different, different, different, it's history rhyming.
Exactly.
I mean, luckily, luckily, I'm Jewish.
So I can say whatever I want about the Jewish experience.
And yeah, sure thing.
But also, you know, the structure of my book, The End of America looked at moments in history where A democracy was closed down, and I looked at Nazi Germany.
And, you know, this is a playbook.
There are 10 steps to a fascist or totalitarian society, as I made this case in the end of America, by looking at Mussolini's Italy, Nazi Germany, you know, East Germany in the 50s, Chile and China.
And it's the same 10 steps.
And people who say it's inappropriate to invoke Nazi Germany really are poor students of history because that model has been used by every dictator or would-be dictator since then.
It's too good a model to get rid of because it really works.
And one of the things that the Nazis did was exactly what we're seeing now.
Before they had the Enabling Acts and before they had, you know, rounded up in six months a key Opposition leaders, outspoken clergy, journalists and beating them up in basements, which is all it took to close down that democracy.
But before that happened, there was that mounting kind of book burning and you can't say this and let's criminalize that approach.
Let's create a two tier society here.
You know, don't patronize the Jewish stores.
You know, they have to wear a yellow star.
It's very much like the vaccine passports.
You know, they're infectious.
It was propagandizing and certainly kind of rewarding of good journalists and penalizing bullying, intimidating of bad ones and an assault on the academy, you know, and a promotion of academics who towed the National Socialist line and a hounding and isolation and, and disemployment of critics of National Socialists.
It's, it's absolutely standard.
And, and And we know exactly what the next steps are.
And the next steps are exactly what we're seeing.
The kind of legislation that there is no turning back from.
And I've been trying to warn Britain about this.
By the way, I don't know if you follow my tweets, which is really all I've got.
I love your tweets.
You're on point.
Thank you.
Thank you.
But sadly, I used to be able to, you know, just pitch to the Guardian, you know, here's how Britain is moving to a fascist.
I mean, Guardian published my first 10 Steps to Fascism essay.
And now I- What was that out of interest?
How long ago?
2007, 2008.
Yeah.
But I guess my point is the same news outlets I used to write for.
Yeah.
I don't think I don't even bother reaching out to them because they're so wholly funded by the people who are buying off journalists now.
But but I'm very worried about Britain because Britain is in line for very ugly, uglier things happening that have already happened.
I can tell you what they are.
But I you know, I've been trying to warn Britain since March of last year when I read the whole Coronavirus Act and I said this pushes elections for a year and a half and it pushes elections in Northern Ireland till 2030.
Why is, and this is before we even knew how long the pandemic would last, what the scope of the pandemic, there was just a new disease out.
No one knew that it would be a thing and the whole Coronavirus Act criminalizes certain kinds of assembly and certain kinds of uh ordinary electoral behavior for for a year and a half to a decade in advance and I tried to sound the alarm then to no avail but um I don't know what to do about Britain because very ugly things are planned for Britain unless there is a popular resistance so I'm glad to know 50,000 people were out
Yeah, you should have a look at the footage.
It's a glorious sight.
It was very encouraging.
And I think the next March will be even bigger.
But tell me what's coming next.
I don't want to.
It's very sad.
Well, first let me tell you... Go on, give them the bad news.
I mean, I don't want to single out Britain, except that Britain and Australia and Canada do seem to be like Petri dishes.
They're being used to model or even experiment on a massive scale.
It appears from the policies that we're seeing.
I don't have firsthand evidence of this as a smoking gun, but I'm privileged or cursed to be in a position where I get flows of communications from around the world about these issues.
And it's the same script, the same talking points in Australia, Canada, and Britain.
So I, like, from that I knew Australia was a little bit ahead of Britain.
So I knew that first Australia would close its parliament and have an unelected committee advising, you know, in a way that transcended normal parliamentary processes.
I tried to warn people about that.
I knew Britain would be next.
And, you know, I knew last May of 2019, I warned 600 people at the Hay Festival that if you didn't have a written constitution and you were leaving Europe, you were vulnerable to a coup.
And my global reputational attack began on me three days later.
So, um, it's very predictable, you know, sorry.
No, no, I didn't say anything.
Were you going to say something?
No, no, no.
I was, I was agreeing with you.
Yeah.
So unfortunately, um, the, there's Basically, the lockdowns appear to be a pressure, you know, tactic.
It's almost psychological torture, I think, what you guys are being put through to break you and to break resistance and honestly to disorient people.
And, you know, isolation makes people crazy.
It's fully documented.
Many peer-reviewed studies, which is why people who care about human rights object to solitary confinement, The way you all, it's different from the United States, but the way you all have been kept from seeing loved ones, from traveling to see loved ones, to saying goodbye when people die in the hospital, you know, kept from touching each other, told not to have sex with each other.
I mean, I know these are like arcane moments in the journey, but the fact that these policies were even ever invoked is psychotic, but it's also intentional.
And they're not being invoked around the world, which in a British bubble, no one will know.
They might think this is just normal.
Everyone is being told not to touch their loved ones, not to hug people.
You know, you can't not to sit on a park bench together, not to have a dinner party, not to, you know, not to worship together.
Like, all of this is designed to not just break British society and break down traditions, you know, not to have school, you know, normal school attendance, not to have normal school exams, not to have Normal Oxbridge processes.
It's all to unravel British culture.
Yeah, it is.
But also to make people, yeah, clearly, but also to make people kind of insane.
And I don't want to like single out anyone.
I love my friends and community in Britain, but it's visible to me over the course of this last year that people are losing their minds.
Their mental health is suffering.
And in a way that is very much like cult behavior or like an abusive relationship.
Britain has been isolated like an abused spouse, gaslighted, lied to, punished for showing any initiative.
I mean, this is how domestic husbands control their wives and break them down and have them give up.
It's learned helplessness.
So I'm impressed that 50,000 people came out.
I think there's a sustained war on British culture and institutions in the British psyche.
I mean, that image of the Queen sitting alone, you know, there's no medical reason for it, you know, but it's, you know, and even like the war on British established, like established values, the war on historical narratives in Britain, the war on institutions, I think is part of this assault on Britain.
I'm seeing it around the world, as I mentioned, but you guys are kind of uniquely singled out for this.
What's going to happen next?
If you want me to spell it out without civil disobedience on a massive scale, you're going to have a vaccine passport imposed on you.
People will try to say, oh, well, we can boycott our way out of it.
You can't boycott your way out of it once it's rolled out.
The app will know if you're planning a boycott.
I mean, there's no going back.
I've talked about vaccine passports elsewhere.
Once you have a vaccine passport there, it is China.
It's not a precursor for China.
It is China.
And there won't, you know, it will merge with your payment, electronic payments.
It will merge with your social media searches.
It will merge with geolocating you wherever you go, creating maps out of your social networks.
If you meet with friends to even discuss a march or a rally or dissent, It's over once you have the vaccine passports.
You'll be let out if you agree.
Like, what's this threat?
You won't be able to go overseas unless you have a vaccine passport.
People are desperate to have holidays.
So they'll be told, OK, accept the vaccine passports.
You can go to Spain for a week and then everyone will just give in and accept it.
They'll be allowed out for the summer and then There'll be a new variant in the fall and Parliament will never really reconvene in any meaningful way.
British assets will continue to be sold behind the scenes to foreign powers, probably mostly China, which is probably, in my view, China and six tech bros and Bill Gates are kind of behind a lot of this through the Davos crowd.
You'll be a puppet state and it'll be like Singapore.
You'll still have great food and kind of a charade of parliament and a charade of media, but you'll be wholly owned by these entities.
You'll have lockdowns every winter.
You'll get habituated to lockdowns.
Your kids will feel like the social contract is completely broken.
The thing that's happening right now, and then I really will stop, is that insistently, and more in Britain than other places, you know, although Canada and Australia are bad, the way culture, like culture doesn't just survive, right?
It needs human contact and acculturation to survive.
So what's happening right now is Britain is being so isolated and people are being so tormented and so surveilled that all the things that make up Britain Everyone's forgetting, right?
Or the next generation is not going to.
Yes!
No!
And that's what is happening and will continue to happen until there is no Britain left, until it's dissolved.
Yeah.
Listen, what you said just then was absolutely chilling and absolutely in accordance with what I've seen.
I've seen it happening.
Every institution has been suborned, corrupted.
And it's frightening.
They are trying to deracinate us from our traditions.
Everything that we used to enjoy about being British is being taken away at the most extraordinary rapid pace.
And I can tell you, on the march yesterday, it was extraordinary.
The feeling among the people who were there was, I'm with some people again.
And isn't it great?
And I got, I was there with my brother.
And we, you know, we do podcasts and stuff.
So we're kind of semi-famous among kind of lockdown skeptics and stuff.
And people were just greeting us like we were rock stars.
And I don't mean that I am a rock star, but I mean, the gratitude and hope and joy for what they said to me over and over again was, I've been thinking I was going mad and it's only your podcast that's kept me sane because you've been talking about my experiences and making them.
But you're right.
I think that we are drifting towards, well, yeah, it is a form of totalitarianism.
Well, tell me, let's cut to the chase.
Where is all this coming from?
Why is this happening?
Because a lot of people think it's completely innocent.
A lot of people think that this nasty virus hit the world unexpectedly in early 2020 and the politicians
did their best and they were taking the best advice of the medical experts and that and that the reason this is going on now is that they've committed it it's a bit like um sunk costs they the sunk cost fallacy they're doubling down because they don't want to be embarrassed what what do you say to somebody who believes that which i think is most people how do you explain to them that they're wrong i mean first uh you know there are some key facts that i'm not sure are reaching
The average British person, they're barely reaching the average American.
But a really important fact is that the data are now in and locked down countries and states don't do any better than open countries and states.
It didn't matter, right?
It didn't make a difference.
You know, and the Great Barrington Declaration, people warned about this, that a virus goes through a population and you can kind of slow it a little.
You know, if human beings don't interact with each other at all, but there is no way to stop it.
That's why they supported sheltered protection.
You know, make sure that people who do want to shelter can, the elderly, the immunocompromised, and everyone else needs to go about their lives because it didn't matter.
So you've had a year of mental, spiraling mental illness in Britain among young people, self-harming among young people, children, you know, kids having their hopes and dreams dashed.
in terms of their school plans, university plans.
You know, remote learning, I think, is as bad where you are as where we are.
You know, families isolated from each other, surveillance, and so on and so on.
And people may not know that the data are in and it's made no difference at all.
In America, we do have some brave scientists, as I mentioned, but also now some brave leaders like Governor DeSantis, who was really villainized by the press for most of this.
He's a hero.
And he kept his state open.
And part of why he kept it open is he and Kristi Noem in South Dakota said, it's not the government's role to close businesses, which used to be fundamentally true in a free The government, that's Marxist, right?
It's a centrally planned economy.
It's not the West.
In the West, it is your property.
The government can't close your business, right?
Or force you into your home.
We have freedom of assembly.
Everything that happened in Britain violated European human rights law, just like everything that happened in America, violated our constitution.
Totally unlawful.
But people in Britain may not know that the science does not support any lockdowns.
People in Britain might not know that asymptomatic transmission doesn't have strong evidence to support it, right?
There are these key building blocks of this mythology.
People in Britain surely don't know that your PCR tests, those dashboards from the Office of National Statistics showing, oh, here's a spike.
I deconstructed those.
I build those platforms for a living.
On my company, we create dashboards for government data, which is what that is.
No one has been allowed to look at the raw data sets.
So you don't know if what you're being told about the spikes or the declines is true at all.
You need a freedom of information request to even see the raw data sets.
And the raw data are being sold or transmitted to private partners like Boots and other nations that may not even be your allies.
So there is a wholesale, you know, sucking up of British citizens' test data and medical data and hoovering it to other private interests.
But there's also like, I mean, I found, for instance, that your ONS platform doesn't rule out multiple tests by one person being counted as multiple people.
So if I am forced to test every week and I have a PCR positive, it'll count me as Six different people, if I test for six weeks, and you'll get a spike.
It's very simple to rule that out using digital technology but they haven't bothered to do it.
And also, there's a scandal that people may or may not know.
That PCR tests, if they're run at a high cycle threshold, generate false positives to scale.
So there's no disclosure of what is the cycle threshold that all these British tests have been run at.
So we really don't know if there's been a pandemic in Britain, right?
Until we can see that.
And lastly, your deaths, just like our deaths, are being lumped together with other causes of death.
So things are being called COVID deaths that on an investigation are not COVID deaths.
In our country, in Minnesota, where lawmakers audited the death certificates, which Dr. Claire Craig-Path is calling for in Britain, they found a 40% over-attribution of deaths to COVID.
And the last thing people may not know is the average COVID death in America is, in my state, for instance, is 85, is the age of the average death. 85!
Which is six years older than the average lifespan.
So people are dying of COVID who are going to die.
God bless them at the end of their lives.
Every death is very sad, but there is no evidence to suggest that healthy young people are dying in any You know, appreciable numbers from this illness, which has been represented as a, you know, inevitably fatal illness.
I'm not trying to minimize it.
It's, you know, something is really there.
But as a journalist, I'm saying none of the metrics of this pandemic have been confirmed.
And it's not true unless you can confirm it.
As you and I know, Journalism 101.
It has not been confirmed.
Those death certificates in Britain have not been audited.
We really don't know how many people actually died from COVID.
I saw that the Office of National Statistics has the power to choose a cause of death, and in Britain, doctors don't even have to be present to file a cause of death.
So it's rife for corruption from beginning to end.
And you really can't know.
So people do need to know those basic facts.
And then I guess what I would say is, what I have determined is that, you know, follow the money, right?
And follow the geopolitics.
It does appear, and I've seen the primary documentation, that China, which wants the rest of the world to be China, is kind of buying up institutions, ports, natural resources, water, and community organizations through various cutouts.
And there's a lot of work I can direct you to that has confirmed this through primary sources.
I haven't looked at it in Britain, but it's happening in Canada.
It's happening in the United States.
I think it's happening You know, in many countries, certainly happening in Australia, and we've seen primary documentation to confirm all of that.
They're very smart.
This is called asymmetrical warfare.
They see a victory as, and this is in their kind of CCP white papers, it's not a secret, as winning without ever going to war, without ever firing a shot.
So that's what's happening.
But how do you do that?
You need cutouts, as they say in the intelligence community.
You need politicians that you can buy, community leaders you can buy.
And so to me, it's very notable that Bill Gates is in a $300 million partnership with the Chinese Communist Party, and also that millions and millions, millions and millions, hundreds of millions are flowing from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to basically do that,
Flowing to K-12 education, flowing to news outlets that you and I discussed, flowing to religious organizations, flowing to really every institution, and corrupting it, right?
And then there's Davos.
Again, I don't have a smoking gun for this, but They've talked about the Great Reset, you know, and I used to think that was science fiction, but I've actually seen that on their website, you know, there's a schematic, it's probably up still, of how vaccination is gonna be the threshold for managing and monitoring all populations, you know, mobility, civic engagement, commerce, and so on.
It's right there.
So I think what has happened And then lastly, there are the tech companies that I mentioned.
They started something called the COVID-19 Response Project.
Nintendo, Nasdaq, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, you know, all these tech companies, Bloomberg, early on, like March of 2020, founded this response project to fund messaging around COVID, to fund money to the Blavatnik School at Oxford, To create, you know, maps showing, you know, that open states did worse when in fact ultimately they did better and so on and so on.
So there's all this money flowing to create this one message.
And I think also to kind of buy up politicians, buy up community leaders, buy up universities and news outlets.
What is the goal, I think, that
In Davos for the last few years, there's been real presentations about the near future being one of very angry populations, whether it's as Reiner Fulmich, the lawyer in Germany who's suing at the highest level to, you know, disclose what he sees as a massive fraud, whether it's because the funds that
are supposed to be used to pay for people's retirement, are going to be found to be kind of emptied out.
This is his theory based on whistleblowers he's been in touch with.
I have no evidence of that.
Or whether it's just unsustainable, not enough natural resources, not enough water, not enough, you know, arable land for the population.
They keep having a presentation of angry, you know, angry billions, angry billions.
So I think that in anticipation of that, there, you know, has kind of been a rollout of a global crackdown on human rights and liberties, that using the pandemic as an excuse, and we've seen terrorism used as an excuse, it's a real thing, but it can be used as an excuse to strip people of rights, and that basically the West is the target, and
What about the West is target our freedoms, our heritage, our culture, because these angry populations can be managed by this oligarchical elite much more comfortably if we don't have rights and freedoms, we don't have property, we don't have assembly, and we're kind of broken psychologically.
That's, that's very scary.
And again, it totally accords with, with what I believe.
I mean, I think the only element you and I aren't sure about is the degree to which this is being orchestrated by the CCP and the extent to which it's being, it's a Western thing.
I mean, the Western, the West did not need to fall for, for example, President Xi's, President Xi invented the concept of lockdown, didn't he?
And it was promoted by CCP.
This is, Michael Seng has done research into this.
Promoted by CCP bots.
He planted in the West the idea that lockdowns are the only look at Italy.
They're locking down.
We've got a lockdown to all that.
We didn't need to do that.
We didn't need to do the CCP's bidding and yet we did it where he was like pushing it an open door.
And I think And I wonder whether you agree with me.
The stuff that started that seemed to start in 2020 has been going on for years.
They've been preparing for this.
This is not a kind of a sudden thing that, you know, that there was a virus that appeared out of nowhere.
No one was expecting it.
And they decided to react in a particular way that never reacted to before.
I think they've been talking about this for ages behind behind closed doors.
I don't I don't have evidence of that except for the Johns Hopkins Spars scenario, which is a real thing and does make really chilling reading.
Um, I don't have evidence for that.
Oh, it, well, I'll just direct you to it.
It's a kind of exercise that Johns Hopkins, which has been at the center of producing like the COVID dashboard and the COVID experts.
Um, they ran a scenario of a global respiratory virus and how messaging could be rolled out accordingly and certain policies could be rolled out accordingly.
Accordingly, that's the only kind of foreshadowing document I've confirmed, and it's pretty scary.
I do agree with you as a former political consultant, by the way, not directly to Clinton, but to Clinton's campaign chief.
It's very hard to manage such a global undertaking without Some coordination.
And I don't think the CCP is behind it.
I think that it's a loose kind of affiliation of these three entities that I described.
The tech companies, the CCP, and the Davos group, basically.
That's why I'm kind of hopeful, because not everyone has the same agenda.
Citizen action over time can wear down a loose affiliation like this.
I do know some things can't be produced that quickly.
Like something I noticed early on was that suddenly kids were learning remotely and there was a full-fledged remote curriculum for them.
Well, I create digital products for a living and you can't do that overnight.
You know, that has to be planned in advance.
Yes.
I noticed something as well.
Surprisingly early on in the lockdown, we're talking sort of April last year, There were these, there was this move to make people abandon cash.
There was somehow cash was unsafe.
I mean, this is just dirty.
Yeah.
This was pre-planned.
And what, what, what was extraordinary was the, the ubiquity of this, you know, went into all sorts of shops.
They already had their plans instituted where they didn't really want your money anymore.
Now that was not.
That was very suspicious.
And there are other things we haven't mentioned.
Well, I guess what I'm trying to... Sorry, certainly, James, I'm not saying that lots of the outcomes don't appear to have been planned in advance.
I mean, things are being rolled out very quickly around the world.
Of course, it points to orchestration and planning.
I just try to always stick to what I have evidence of, but I do know something else to kind of back up what you're saying.
And by the way, this can all be done and we're seeing documentation of it slowly through highly funded ad campaigns, right?
And kind of think tank campaigns.
Like we know that in Germany, a bunch of scientists were kind of corrupted to support the PCR tests and lockdowns, you know, with no scientific evidence.
We know there was funding for them.
We know about the $178 million Gates sent to the Imperial College.
You know, we know that there was a kind of systematic buying off of a lot of the spokespeople.
But even things like the phrases, you know, like even the phrase social distancing, which came out of nowhere, right?
Which otherwise would be like weird estrangement or behaving like someone with some sort of Spectrum issue, right?
That is a fully focus-grouped or chosen talking point that got rolled out around the world.
to kind of brainwash us all at once into accepting very weird behavior for people in the West who are not used to being told how to stand and, you know, how much distance to keep from other people by the state.
You know, that's a very kind of collectivist idea.
It may be sensible when there's an infectious disease, although new studies show it's not particularly effective, but that that is a talking point, you know, and you see You see multiple, like saving lives, this will save lives, like NHS, stay home, save lives.
That phrase save lives, sorry, my light just went out, is, you know, President Biden uses it, Rochelle Walensky uses it at the CDC here.
And, you know, it's around the world.
And it's left over from Bush and the terrorism hype of denying your freedoms based on terrorism.
Oh, yes, you may have to lose some freedoms, but it will save lives.
So as someone who used to work in message shops at the highest level, I recognize that there is absolutely a coordinated campaign.
The colors, right?
You guys in Britain are being assaulted with this very scary shade of red.
You know, that represents in hotspots on the map, right?
I don't know if you've seen it, but in advertising, it's like that was focus group that was chosen.
And we've seen the same shade of red used by the New York Times to show, oh, here's a hotspot.
Well, that is a group of ad people sitting in a conference room somewhere saying, let's have consistent branding across the countries.
It's going to be this shade of red to represent Infection and this cool, calming medicinal shade of green to represent vaccination.
So I do recognize that doesn't happen overnight.
That does take six months to a year to plan in advance.
And just like I was surprised that the Coronavirus Act was a fully fleshed out piece of legislation, very complex, many pages long at a time when we didn't even know how long this illness would last.
You could have been thinking of a week or two weeks and yet boom, you know, and that's very much like the Enabling Acts or the Patriot Act, you know, fully fledged.
It doesn't mean, I'm not saying that 9-11 was known in advance, but there can be bad legislation that sits on a shelf until a really good crisis There's also just plain old kind of exploitation of market forces.
I feel like March, April, May of last year was pretty organic.
Find solutions and talk through, well, there's this new disease.
And then suddenly, you know, by summer, there was this kind of lockstep in terms of policy and spokespeople.
And I sort of feel like the tech companies, Bill Gates, CCP, you know, all the vested interests kind of scrambled to make the most of what was probably a lab accident.
So that's my best read.
Yes, we're going to talk about the vaccines, sorry, the experimental gene therapy.
But before we do, I just wanted to give one more example I noticed in the UK media.
I don't know whether you've seen this in the US as well.
That the most fanatically pro-lockdown politicians in the cabinet, Michael Gove and Matt Hancock, I saw them described in the media today as doves.
So it's apparently a dovish position to want more extreme measures, whereas the hawks are somehow the ones who want.
It makes no sense except as the purest propaganda, the notion that if you're for a really hard lockdown, you're a dove.
Now, where did that come from?
That is propaganda.
I mean, it came from Orwell.
War is peace.
I mean... Exactly.
My husband, who spent 12 years in military intelligence, pays a lot of attention to a document or a kind of methodology used in Soviet propaganda.
And one of the stages is subversion.
And one of the goals of subverting a country, this is before any, you know, hopefully no bullets are shot if you want to subvert and tenderize the enemy, as they say.
Is to disorient people and make it impossible for them to know what is true and what's not true.
And so I'm seeing a lot of that.
I'm seeing a lot of really confusing legislation, confusing rules, confusing language, and it just leads people to kind of give up and lose hope.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, I've been reading, you did a fantastic Twitter thread on all the women who've been having terrible problems after the vaccine.
Tell me, are you concerned about the vaccines?
I mean, I'm kind of reluctant to weigh in.
I'm not a doctor.
I'm not a scientist.
My DPhil is in poetry, so I... You don't need to be a scientist to look at those VAER reports and to... Yeah, so I guess I just want to kind of give a full disclosure.
I'm not a scientist.
I am a woman and, you know, I, as a woman and as someone who's written two books about female sexual health and reproductive health, Misconceptions and vagina.
I think anyone who knows anything about reproductive health is going to worry that hundreds and hundreds of women are reporting extremely bizarre bleeding, you know, menstrual and uterine bleeding, you know, post vaccination.
And, you know, just as a A fertility issue.
The fact that women are reporting, you know, finishing one period, starting another period right away, or five week menses, you know, just bleeding for five weeks straight, or, you know, post women who are postmenopausal haven't had a period in two years, suddenly bleeding when they get a vaccine and women describing terrible blood clots, you know, menstrual blood clots, you know, horrible periods, curled up in fetal positions, hemorrhaging,
Blood, you know, you don't have to be a scientist.
You just have to be a woman to know that, you know, something's wrong in that case.
Are they contacting you directly or are you reading this on the website where you report adverse reactions?
Some are contacting me directly and some have been doing research on the adverse reactions.
And I also was just following someone named Kate Clancy who's doing kind of Informal solicitation of reports on social media.
So none of these, I mean, I guess what I would want to say is none of these are confirmed.
None of these are peer-reviewed studies.
But to me as a feminist women's health advocate, it is a worry that we're down to Twitter and Facebook to hear from women what their concerns are, what they're experiencing as side effects.
So I just wanna stress, none of these reports are confirmed.
They're not part of a peer reviewed study.
They're anecdotal, but they should be part of peer reviewed studies.
And before, you know, the history of women's health and medicine and obstetrics and oncology shows over and over again, that if you don't test things thoroughly on women and lactation and pregnancy and, you know, babies, to make sure it's safe before you roll it out, terrible things always happen.
So to me, as a woman, as someone who loves women of, you know, who haven't had kids yet, It is very concerning that there are no completed, double-blind, controlled, peer-reviewed, published studies confirming that it is safe for pregnant women.
And it's worrying that I hear in Britain, pregnant women are told not to get vaccinated, but in America, the CDC just said, oh, you should get vaccinated.
You know, it's the same biology.
So to me, the unknown is what's so scary about this.
We've just had a doctor, a senior doctor come out and say, women should get the vaccine and pregnant women should be, I think he said they should be fast-tracked.
This is what worries me.
Jesus.
I've read, exactly.
I've read your reports of women's experiences.
And I tell you, this may be something that of course with what you've learned in America as well.
I have heard so many stories, so many anecdotes from people whose word I trust totally, who have no reason to lie.
And they tell me about themselves or about their loved ones, their mothers or whatever.
They've taken the so-called vaccine.
They've had really, really bad reactions.
I mean, horrible reactions, far worse than you'd expect from any normal jab.
And they've kept it to themselves.
Out of a sense of duty, like they're doing their bit for the country.
And if they speak out, then maybe they'll put off other people from taking the vaccine.
You were talking about the kind of the crushing and brainwashing of a society.
And I think, well, tell me, give me your thoughts on that.
Well, I mean, that's really scary, you know, and that is like Nazi doctors.
I mean, when the state starts to coerce people medically, terrible, terrible things happen.
I do, I'm worried, like I see, I think that it's not the male, it's one of your other tabloids, has a little symbol, Jabs Army, and it like invokes World War II.
It's that kind of 1940s lettering.
And I do see that kind of stiff upper lip, you know, it's the Blitz.
We all have to do our bit and submit our bodies to the state for this vaccine.
And I'm not surprised that British people are quite stoic, you know, quite kind of community oriented.
If they're told, don't speak up because it's kind of treason to the collective to complain if you had a bad outcome would be silent but it's very frightening because it's an experimental treatment, you know, it hasn't completed its trials the last trials are in 2023.
Now is the time, under normal post-Enlightenment scientific and medical conditions, for people to share, you know, if they're having bad outcomes, because that is part of how we learn, right?
There's no process, I mean, going back to the very first, you know, vaccines, the 19th, kind of state mandated in the 19th century, or any medical process, like, you know, when people first found out that Surgeons not washing their hands was causing women to die in childbirth.
If you don't share what the problems are, science cannot evolve.
Medicine cannot evolve.
And human beings can't evolve.
It may be that it does have an effect on women of reproductive age, and it doesn't have a negative effect on women of menopausal age.
There's so many variables, and you don't know if people are keeping quiet about it.
So that's really, really concerning.
You know, I guess the thing that worries me more than that, which is worrying enough, is the collapse of a kind of emotionally coercive message that everyone should get vaccinated, even if they're not at serious risk for this disease, or even if they have antibodies or immunities from having had it earlier, or whatever reason.
The collapse of that with vaccine passports, because then it won't just be peer pressure, Or media pressure.
It'll be like in New Zealand, you'll lose your job if you don't get vaccinated, or it'll be a criminal offense if you don't get vaccinated.
And you can be sure that if it's collapsed with the vaccine passports, vaccination will not be the last thing you'll be asked to do.
You know, whether it's, oh, you have too many kids, it can't sustain a two-kid family, it has to be one child, and the passport will keep an eye on that or the passport will Track your ovulation and make sure you don't have sex when you're fertile.
Someone needs your kidney, right?
There's no limit, once the state owns your body, to what the state will ask.
The booster shot that they're already talking about, which I got deplatformed once for even pointing out that the Moderna platform boasted that it was set up for multiple updates, so it was a better investment for investors than a traditional vaccine, which is just one-time thing.
So I'm not sure if I'm answering you, but it's dangerous and it's especially dangerous for women because science has a long history of ignoring women's concerns.
It's hard to talk about your menses, you know, as it is.
But if women don't speak up about the effects of a new technology on their bodies, guaranteed Science will not say, hey, let's wait and make sure this is safe before we give it to women of childbearing age.
I mean, honestly, just knowing what I know about the pill, and I'm not a doctor, but when you've got postmenopausal women suddenly bleeding, you've got women bleeding untimely, you've got a placenta abruptia, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, you've got a lot of spontaneous abortions or miscarriages Just from the experience with the pill, it means something is going on hormonally that is not good.
And the last thing is, you know, babies are now being born with antibodies and people are saying that's great.
To me, you know, I raised this alarm when I first read the Moderna platform and the description of the technology, it crosses the blood-brain barrier.
So I asked publicly, because I'm not a gynecologist, If it does that, doesn't it cross the placental barrier as well?
And the answer is yes, it does.
And so we're really experimenting on Babies in utero, we're experimenting on fetuses, we're experimenting on the next generation.
And to me, as a women's health advocate, never, if you told me in the past, oh, there's this technology, it's new, and it's going to affect unborn babies, everyone would say, stop right there.
Let's finish the trials and make sure it's safe for mothers and babies.
Mothers in the West are not encouraged to drink a glass of wine every week.
Because it might affect the baby and we're just like offering up the bodies of women and babies to an unproven outcome.
So it's completely outside of the norms and practices and ethics of women's healthcare.
Up until now, and I'm kind of baffled, as I said on social media, where are the feminist health care advocates?
Because no one says it's fine when, you know, C-sections double.
No one says it's fine.
You know, I was one of the reporters who brought the silicone breast implant story.
You know, that was bad.
And it happened for the same reason.
An untested Technology was being put into women's bodies.
Everyone was sorry after the fact, but we've learned our lesson, right?
Mirena, thalidomide, etc, etc.
You know, women's reproductive health is very delicate.
And I would have thought these hundreds and hundreds of women saying, You know, it's not just my periods are weird, but I'm clotting.
I'm, you know, I haven't menstruated in years.
I'm, you know, like whatever they're saying, my pregnancy ended.
You know, these are red flags, it seems to me, and ordinary society in the West would treat them like red flags.
Naomi, it's been fantastic.
I'm so glad that you are in my foxhole with me, fighting the fight, because there are so few of us, but those of us there are, are of a very high calibre, and you've been absolutely brilliant.
I'm going to ask you one question, but may I?
Ask anyone who's enjoyed this podcast, this fantastic podcast.
Don't forget to support me on Patreon and Subscribestar because, you know, we're increasingly isolated, we voices, and I know how much these podcasts mean to a lot of you, that they're a kind of lifeline to the truth, which is increasingly absent from our mainstream media.
Naomi, I'm going to ask you one more thing, and actually two more things.
One, please will you come on my podcast again?
I'd love to.
Thank you.
And the second thing is, what do we have cause to be optimistic about?
I mean, what hope is there?
I mean, that's a great question.
It depends on us, right?
I mean, you know, in Britain, there doesn't have to be a march once in a while.
There has to be civil disobedience on a massive scale every day.
Peaceful.
But, you know, my favorite revolution is Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia because they were the singing revolution.
They just disrupted business as usual peacefully until they wore their oppressors down.
And Britain really has to do that.
And also to get out of your house and assemble with other people, go to the pub, if you possibly can, you know, go to the playground, go to the, you know, wherever you're allowed to go to be with other people, because we are, confined by technology and lied to by the media.
We have to be talking face to face to each other.
I think there is hope, but I think a lot of us have to be very brave.
I guess the last thing I would say is when people think they're going to be safe by keeping their mouths closed, history shows that you're at this point in a declining democracy, you're actually at more risk if you keep your mouth closed.
So we all need to be brave and speak up together.
And worse, worse bullies have been defeated.
So.
Thank you for letting me say that.
No, that's what, I think that's what, um, in one of the Solzhenitsyn books, um, people in the gulags said.
The main topic of conversation was, why did we not respond earlier when our freedoms were taking away from us?
You know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't be here now if, if, if more of us had resisted.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now's the time.
Thank you so much, James.
You've been brilliant.
Really good fun.
Thanks a lot.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
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