Yeah, so Laura, we've established recently, haven't we, that you are a vicious psychopath and that there are lots and lots of people you want to kill.
You've got to try and not mention it on this on this vidcast because people get upset.
You know, as you were not going to mention any names, but somebody got upset when you and you're in your Laura-ish way said, I want to kill so and so.
And do you know what?
I was torn on this one because I, too, would very much like to live in the age that you and I grew up in and every normal person grew up in an age where you could say things like, I'll kill you.
To your children and things.
And it didn't literally mean that you wanted to kill your children.
Far from it.
It was almost affectionate.
And I think what's missing from this horrible age we now live in is a sense of irony, of context, of humour, of tradition.
All these things that come to play when you use a phrase like, I'll kill you.
And sometimes, sometimes it can be, you know, you genuinely do want to kill somebody.
Although I don't think I've ever I found myself in that situation.
Well, I haven't killed anyone, so... Yeah.
But it's sad, isn't it?
I mean, but at the same time, so when the person complained to me, they could have been really, really arsy about it.
They could have started threatening legal action or whatever, or they could have made a fuss about it on Twitter, if anyone's still watching on Twitter, right?
I don't think they are anymore.
But I could sort of see the person's position insofar as we're living in an age now where things are getting really nasty, don't you think?
I mean, one could be bumped off by the, you know, people like me or you could be bumped off by the forces of the deep state.
I mean, if you work in the pharmaceutical industry, for example, or you cross Henry Clinton, I mean, that is a death sentence.
So I'm told.
Yeah, no, look, I felt very guilty, actually.
My Catholic guilt really, really came in.
I felt guilty.
It is actually a phrase that I use a lot and perhaps I shouldn't.
I spent most of the very day that a complaint came in telling my husband that I wanted to kill him because he did something that really annoyed me.
And then I just thought to myself, well, maybe it's a phrase I should just stop using.
But, you know, look, I had sympathy for him.
It's a public forum.
And there are people out there who, you know, you can't cater for.
And there's something else I was going to say.
Yeah, but I was happy he dealt with it privately, actually.
So, you know, he really, you know, these days, these days, yeah, some people really like to milk these things on Twitter.
And he could have caused a massive Twitter storm, maybe, or a massive pile on, and he didn't do that.
So, actually, yeah, we will leave it there.
Given that he's not on our side of the argument and people on the other side tend to like the victimhood game, I'm always a bit... Are you the same?
I'm always slightly disappointed when people on our side of the argument try to make the story about how hurt they are and what victims they are.
I just think it's a game that the other side should play.
Yeah, but he didn't really do that, though, because he didn't make a public... No, no, that's not what I mean.
He didn't.
He didn't, but you would have expected him to.
That's what I mean was so good about him.
He also said about, you know, that he has a family, basically.
So, obviously, once people say that to me, I start climbing down pretty quickly.
So, anyway, we will not do this again.
I will try not to do it again.
I wanted to tell you a story there about The moment when I realized the rules had changed.
So about, I think it was about 15 years ago now.
Yeah.
And I was still of the view that I was destined to have a really good mainstream media career.
And I was just looking, I was looking, I was still working to that phase when I would eventually get a column in the mail or possibly the Sun, one of those me columns, and you'd get about three or 400,000 a year.
And you'd be sorted.
Yeah.
And I become, because it is, it's a bit like being a fighting soldier.
And then, and then you eventually you get promoted to, I don't know, well, you know, you get to become a general officer if you're lucky, but, but, but it's the, it's the thing that journalists work towards.
And for me, I didn't realise that this was never going to happen.
I was, I was not the cut from the right, right cloth, even though I think I'm a brilliant writer, but anyway, I did a, I got invited on to the BBC.
Was it Front Row?
It's one of those review programs, you know, radio review programs.
Right.
And I was talking about a new Robbie Williams album.
And I'm quite a fan of Robbie Williams in as much as I think he's made some really good... I think he's pretty amazing, actually.
He's made some pretty good records.
But this one was a Robbie Williams He'd covered these standards and it was rubbish.
And I was reviewing this album and I said, well, I think, you know, frankly, I was a fan of his other stuff, but frankly, he should be killed for this album.
And there was a, there was a deathly pause.
And then the presenter said something like, of course you didn't, didn't mean that he should be killed.
I mean, I have to say, part of me, obviously, my guts lurched as I realised, correctly, this was the last time I was ever going to be invited on the programme.
Yes.
But at the same time, I thought, how is it not obvious that I don't want Robbie Williams to be killed?
I've established in the conversation that I'm well disposed towards him.
I don't believe that execution is appropriate for making dodgy, dodgy records.
Yeah.
In the old days, we used to be able to say that pop stars should be killed for making dodgy records.
There was no malice there, and the whole of the audience understood that there was no malice there.
That's the thing.
I do think, you know, a lot of people live in fear of being of being sued for libel.
You know, even even on the website, we obviously we don't have a big legal department, you know, like the mail would have.
And my biggest fear is always, yeah, my biggest fear is always being being sued, being sued for libel or defamation.
And I mean, the thing is, I always so I say to myself, you know, so the politicians will never come after you, you know, unless you do something.
Just horrifically bad.
I wouldn't even mention it because I've been doing it.
You know, you know, there's still fair game in terms of policy and stuff like that.
But you could use a turn of phrase and, you know, you'd want to be very careful.
So, you know, we are we are careful about especially anybody, as I said, below the politician rank below because they have power.
They can be held accountable.
But below that, yeah, we'd be, you know, you should be careful.
You know, you shouldn't go around defaming people.
But, you know, the bar seems to be getting lower now, a lot lower.
So, yeah.
I'm puzzled as to what could be lower than a politician.
You say?
What possible verbal inscription could there be?
So say you went after a fellow colonist or something or a fellow writer, right, or someone you saw on Twitter and so I have my hierarchy of people who I will, sorry, who I will go after and not go after.
You know, I try and keep it to the politicians and Boris Johnson and stuff like that and not, you know, not go after a fellow You know, a fellow blogger or whoever, but it can be difficult sometimes if they just keep printing nonsense.
Well, there used to be much more of that.
Yeah.
I mean, people in the Times continually write insane things.
So I keep moving it's insane things.
And it's really hard not to.
I mean, I did.
I did do a reply blog to Dominic Lawson and Melanie Phillips, obviously completely civilized because you respect because I respect both of them so much.
But sometimes you want to be sarcastic.
I know that Mel's lost it.
Has Dominic Lawson been on the bad side?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
What's he done?
Oh, he compared basically people like us to Harold Shipman.
Yeah.
Well, that's that's fair comment, isn't it?
I mean, I want to go around.
But basically, it's quite a good plot.
Well, all my stuff, of course, I think it's good.
It's this.
I have to take on this idea that we view sort of elderly people as disposable.
And these are our parents, these people.
I said it all out.
It's all there.
Actually, the irony, of course, is that I said we are one of the most pro-life websites out there.
In fact, there's nobody more pro-life than us.
Nobody.
Whereas you, Dominic Lawson and Melanie Phillips, both write for, you know, papers that push abortion and we, for instance, we've opposed, you know, euthanasia or assisted dying, whatever you want to call it, because we know inevitably the pressure this will put on older people or people with disabilities and things like that.
So the idea that we sort of wink, wink, think that, you know, older people are disposable, to me, again, is really cuts deep.
So, Yeah, so I laid it all out.
Have you read The Captive Mind by a Polish writer, whose name I'm going to now mispronounce horribly, but it's something like Czesław Miłosz.
Czesław Miłosz, let's call it that, it's near enough.
He was a writer who lived in Poland in the 19... I think he He was probably in his 20s in the 1930s.
What I'm saying is that he saw Poland when it was a free country before the communists took over.
And then the communists took over and the captive mind was about his experiences watching the guys he used to hang out with, his fellow journalists and intellectuals and artists and writers and so on.
How they all accommodated themselves with surprising ease with this new totalitarian, oppressed, anti-intellectual regime.
And in The Captive Mind, he puzzles why it is that his friends have gone over to the dark side with such apparent ease and why they did it and why he couldn't.
Anyway, he wrote the book in America because he couldn't stand living under communism any longer.
I find myself looking around me, rather as Czesław Milosz must have done to his friends, looking at people like Dominic Lawson.
Dominic Lawson is one of the few reasons I might turn to the mail, I think he writes for, because he writes very considered, very well-researched columns, which have always got two or three facts in them that you didn't know about it.
But the fact that that brilliant mind, that brilliant chess player and so on, obsessive chess player, cannot see that coronavirus is no worse than, you know, a bad year of flu, and there's evidence to support this, and that the only way that you're going to see this is in the total death figures because everything else is corruptible and massageable and misattributable, if that's a word.
Yeah.
But you can't fake the deaths.
And looking at the deaths, we know that 2020 was not a particularly bad death year.
What does that tell us?
It tells us everything.
Well, although I'm going to play them devil's advocate here because I'm not saying it's not accurate.
So they're running this line, though, that it is it wasn't the times today and that that last year was one of the worst years.
Since, oh, I mean, you're talking kind of 1940s or something.
I could get the article, right?
No, no, no.
Hello?
Laura, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Go on, tell me.
That's been corrected.
It's been proved to be utter bollocks.
They got it wrong.
What I do notice is they like to do it over, they compare it over, say, a five-year average, which to me is sneaky, right?
Because a five-year average won't take a cancerous spike.
in a previous year.
Don't even countenance that argument.
You're wasting everyone's time.
It's been disperse.
If you go to lockdown skeptics today, you'll find they've retracted.
They've had to come.
So don't give me that, oh, I'm playing devil's advocate by bringing up some crap that I read in the Times, which is bought and paid for and disgustingly wrong.
And, oh, don't you think that's interesting?
Because it ain't.
You know, it's actually, this is not a... No.
No, I know, I know.
I just want the truth.
I want the truth out there.
But do you know what?
This is why I fell out with Tobes.
Jack Nicholson says, yeah.
Go on.
I haven't really fallen out with Tobes, but I don't know whether you listened to our last podcast we did, last London Calling.
Right.
We agreed that we would only talk about puppies and dragon training crap, because we didn't literally talk about those things, but those are the kind of things we talked about.
Because Toby had once, he told me, been to a dinner party with Kofi Annan, and Mrs. Kofi Annan had told him that the only way they avoided You know, rouse at dinner was by never discussing politics or religion or whatever.
So we had a go at this on the podcast and stuff.
But the reason that I think that Toby, well, one of the reasons, one of the many reasons that I think Toby is mistaken is he does that thing that you did just then, which he quotes this utter bollocks from the kind of official narrative and cites it as, well, you know, on the other hand, we've got to consider this.
No.
They are lying to us.
You see today, I can't believe this is true, I haven't checked this out, but somebody on Twitter said, so it must be, that Boris has now altered the criteria for a COVID death.
Originally, if you had terminal lung cancer and you died of COVID within 28 days of the COVID test, Your death was put down to Covid.
Now it's 60 days.
No, I saw that flagged up, but then someone replied going that they'd looked at the regulations and it still was 28 days, but I haven't personally checked.
Well, I'm glad you've corrected me on that one.
OK, so I can be corrected.
But I haven't personally checked.
I just, I saw the little bit of to and fro and they said, well, I've just checked it.
It still seems 28, I mean, even 28 days.
Look, I know James, but as you know, I've always been against the lockdown in principle.
I wrote something yesterday that we're now in, in, in the Boris Johnson regime as in the abusive, the classic abusive partner stage where they, when this doesn't work because it won't work, If they're saying it's endemic and it's going to spread.
It's going to spread whether this lockdown happens or not, right?
But it'll be all our fault.
It'll be all our fault because we left our house to buy milk at one stage.
So tell me about the abusive partner dynamic.
Tell me how it works.
Well, thankfully I've never had personal experience from it.
My thinking is really along these lines.
They place completely unreasonable burdens on you.
They act like the reasonable person.
You know, they place ridiculous burdens on you, ridiculous restrictions.
They're basically exercising coercive control on the population.
I mean, the last five days is one of the main reasons I wanted to do this podcast.
The media campaign, again, we don't watch it, but you can't not notice it, has been relentless.
I mean, it is peak hysteria where they've had a rolling body of people, right, of the nurses and doctors, the experts, the computer modelling, and then the police, threatening you, like an abusive partner would, with the following punishments if you don't abide by their ridiculous regime.
Either you'll get COVID, you'll die of COVID, someone else will get COVID, you'll die of COVID, or we'll withdraw your privileges, Right.
Okay, honey.
So, you know, I'm just not going to let you see your friend that you're allowed to see once a month.
Because, you know, you've dared to, you haven't sorted out the soup cupboards properly.
And then, and then the ultimate, just basically, basically just, well, you know, it's from sleeping with the enemy, but, and then ultimately the police who just will outright fine you and terrorise you.
And, you know, so this is, this is classic abuse of partner.
And of course, It's all for your own good.
It's all for your own good, honey.
And if I, you know, I may have to make things worse for you because you've asked for it.
It's not me.
It's actually you.
And this is this is what we're dealing with right now.
And I mean, so they've gone after and again, even if they don't change it.
So they went after support bubbles.
This was in the news a couple of a couple of days ago.
Right.
And again, this isn't a personal thing with me because I don't I don't need a support bubble.
Support bubbles are there to support people.
These may be the only, you know, people an older person or a single mom get to see.
And then there's leaks that, you know, if you're not good, if you're not a good girl, we're going to take away your support bubble.
I mean, who does that?
That, as I said, there's a cruelty in that.
But as I've always said, the cruelty is the point.
Then we have this ridiculous mask thing that we've had for the last 48 hours.
I don't know if you've noticed this yet.
Where Sainsbury's and Morrisons and Waitrose have all come out saying, we're not going to let anybody enter our shops without a mask.
That's the headline, unless they're medically exempt.
So I'm like, okay.
Are these security guys that they've said they're going to put on the door, are they going to be interrogating people over medical exemptions?
You can't guess a medical exemption from the GP.
I mean, the government has said, obviously, the last thing you should be doing is hassling your GP for medical exemption.
One of the reasons you can get it is because you suffer from anxiety.
So it's really nice that they have made people who already suffer from anxiety even more anxious about the fact that they may not be let into Sainsbury's to buy a pint of milk.
Again, the cruelty is the point.
And I went to St.
Jude's today, I didn't wear my mask, and it was fine, by the way, viewers.
And I said to myself, but again, not everybody is like me, you know, I will go to my shop, and if the bouncer or the security guy wants to stop me, that's fine, and I will have a conversation with him, and I'll ask to see the manager, and I will say how inappropriate this is, that I don't particularly like being interrogated over my medical history.
Unfortunately, I'm the only one who'll do this, yeah?
I found, I don't know whether you've had this experience, is that after they've asked you the question and you've replied, you know, I'm exempt, there is a tremendous relief.
It's like you feel that, you watch their shoulders drop and they're so happy because they don't like it either.
They don't like coming up to you and it's traumatic for them.
Exactly.
It's not their fault.
It's the cashiers.
These are low paid people, you know, on low pay probably.
And so my issue is never with them.
My issue is, of course, with the government who are putting all this pressure on the supermarkets because they can't get the numbers down.
But we know wearing a mask in Waitrose isn't going to make any... There's nobody in Waitrose.
They're all too frightened.
And, by the way, oh, well, do your shopping online.
Again, you can't get a slot on either Insane Sweets or Waitrose for the next two weeks anyway.
So what are you supposed to do if you suffer from anxiety and you need a pint of milk?
I mean, but again, so this this is just again, this has been a five days of literally terrorizing the population, threatening them.
And I mean, the polling is all still coming back.
Eighty five percent support the lockdown.
But I don't know.
I mean, it doesn't surprise me because it is basically a media bombing campaign.
It is beaten wife syndrome, as you say.
It's amazing how people stay in this abusive relationship.
Well, I mean, they don't have any choice, right?
I mean, and then, so let me just get on, because, again, the worst part of my day is checking the Twitter feed of Good Morning Britain, which, again, I only do to keep an eye.
It actually gives me anxiety.
But you have to check it.
You're a journalist.
You have to check it.
This stuff is going out to millions and millions of people.
And so Piers Morgan's on there and he's interrogating Matt Hancock as usual.
He's in his toilet or something.
I don't know what's up with that particular setup.
Have you seen where Matt Hancock gives his interviews from?
The weird red room?
I can guess.
I don't know why, but an image of... You know that trick where you... It's just weird.
It involves an orange.
And you sort of half-strangle yourself.
No, I don't know that trick, James.
I'd rather not.
It's this kind of dangerous auto-asphyxiation.
It's a technique.
I don't know whether... I just imagine he would do it.
That's Latin.
You're going to get it.
You're going to get it.
Actually, you're a lawyer.
That's not technically... I'm just saying I imagine it's the sort of thing you would... I'm not accusing you of doing it.
Surely, surely that is not.
I'm not a defamation lawyer.
Don't worry, he's not going to administer his own suit.
So, but anyway, apart from what he does or does not do in his red room.
So he's, you know, of course, Piers Morgan is like picking holes in the last few remaining gaps, right, in this ridiculous lockdown.
And he's, oh, well, you know, estate agents can still operate.
You know, people can still go in and out of houses.
And then he uses like, why are you even encouraging people to buy a house right now?
And you're like, you went on a holiday over Christmas to Antigua.
But you don't even care about the fact that some people could be trapped in a completely inappropriate house for their needs.
And you, Pierce Morgan, want to stop them from moving to a house that they actually need to be in.
But again, he's the nice guy.
As I said in the last podcast, how they get the high moral ground is definitely the most annoying aspect of this lockdown.
I mean, he who probably lives in, what, a palatial house, actually wants to stop people, because my last house was tiny, and it's so stressful if your housing needs don't suit your family needs.
I can't explain how stressful it is.
And he's basically inflicting even more psychological damage on somebody who's inside anyway, right?
Who's locked inside anyway, but now they don't even want them to move, even though they desperately will probably need to move.
I mean, the cruelty is the point.
Can I just say, Laura, I think it is absolutely... I would almost give you a VC for actually submitting yourself to the ordeal.
Of looking at GMB's Twitter feed.
Because I can't do it.
I really can't.
I've gone cold turkey.
I won't look at things that upset me.
Maybe that's wrong.
So you don't have to.
Well, I mean, you have to counter some of it.
I mean, it's just, it's incredible that every day they come out to terrorise the population, to tell everybody that they're selfish if they break the rules.
To tell everybody the lockdown should be stricter.
I mean, what can you say?
Because a lot of people watch it.
A lot of people watch it.
Yeah.
There's lots of things that I think...
Lots of things I don't believe.
The official narrative, I think, is completely mendacious.
I think it is as bad as the kind of propaganda that people were fed behind the Iron Curtain in the Soviet Union or Mao's China or wherever.
For example, I don't believe in asymptomatic infection.
No, I agree with you there.
I don't believe that people can get it again.
No.
I was out the other day and somebody said to me, in this environment where I suppose I was probably breaching some kind of regulation, and they said to me, oh yes, a relative of mine, you know, works in the NHS, they've had it twice.
And I said, well, how did they get it twice?
And they said, well, what were their experiences?
First time was like this and second time was like flu.
Second time was all aches and they were all achy.
And I said, well, maybe.
How about this?
Maybe it was the flu the second time.
Maybe the PCR tests are exaggerating the prevalence of COVID-19.
You know, I would like to see the evidence before I believe that your friend who works in the NHS had COVID.
So there's that one.
But what they've done, and this is a really dodgy, dodgy trick, they've actually denied Decades, if not centuries, of medical science, of understanding about how viruses work.
And we know that they progress to the stage where they become endemic.
We know that they mutate, but they tend to take on weaker forms because they don't want to kill the host, they just want to kind of circulate.
We know that the immune system works in a number of ways, one of which is T cell immunity.
All these things have been written off.
They've been airbrushed out of medical history.
That's what's happened.
We've been told these things that are not true.
And you see where they're going with this.
In the same way we saw in the early days when they were trying to suppress all stories about the benefits of hydroxychloroquine.
Now they're trying to play down Invermectin, which I think is the latest solution, because they don't want there to be a cure.
They don't want there to be an immune system protection, a natural immune protection, because they want us to take the vaccine.
Yes.
Once you understand that, that everything is geared towards making us take the vaccine, regardless of the evidence, regardless of our feelings.
Yeah.
Everything becomes much, much clearer.
And they basically said you're not getting out of this lockdown until the vaccine is done, right?
That's your choice, lockdown or vaccine.
Except we now know, they're now saying that the vaccine doesn't give you, doesn't stop you infecting other people, they're saying.
Well, what they're saying is everybody will need to be vaccined, right?
So, I mean, OK, so let's go on.
Let's do Ferguson's interview, which was in the Sunday Times.
Did you read it?
I'll go through it.
Another one?
Or the one where he praised Communist China as the bomb?
Yeah, no, this is in the Sunday.
There was a big, there was a pretty big spread in the Sunday Times with Ferguson.
And the headline was, you know, Ferguson puts his faith in the herd.
So, I mean, there were some big clangers in there that obviously didn't get a lot of coverage.
But I'm not doing direct quotes, but I will give the summary.
So first of all, he basically admits, yeah, London is probably close to immunity with a combination of those who've been infected before and the vaccine.
We will be close to herd immunity.
And you're thinking, oh, I thought we weren't allowed to rely on herd immunity through infection.
I mean, anybody who even mentioned that was some sort of monster.
But yet here he is, you know, king of the king of the computer telling us, yeah, yeah, we'll probably basically rely on both.
That was number one.
Number two is they go, you know, do you think this lockdown will work?
And he says, well, that's a million dollar question.
So not not like.
Yeah, definitely.
And I'm thinking, this is just an experiment for you.
I mean, he isn't in a million dollar question.
This is costing us billions per day.
So I think I would have preferred a different answer, like absolutely.
And then he goes into, you know, the R-rate and can we get the R-rate down, blah, blah, blah.
And you're like, you, you know, this lockdown isn't going to work or at least it'll make very little difference.
And yet you've just gone ahead with it anyway.
Another clanger was Yeah, as I said, he's admitted it's endemic, you know, and even on their terms, if it's endemic and this super duper new variant is so spreadable, you know, it seems that you only have to look at somebody.
I mean, I'm probably giving it to you right now over the internet.
Um, then of course it's going, of course it's going to spread.
There's, there's no, I mean, you might be able to slow it down, but you, if it's endemic and, and like ridiculously infectious, it's, you know, you're not going to stop it.
And then the number four was, yeah, coming back to your vaccine thing, he's like, yeah, you know, we, we'll probably need multiple vaccines because of the mutation.
You're like, Oh, you know, what's been happening.
Have you heard what's been happening in America?
Go on.
So, so they've been trying to.
roll out the vaccine in America.
Yeah.
I think I think that could be in California.
I think I read this.
And the first priority are people in medics, basically medic doctors, doctors and nurses.
And guess what?
The doctors and nurses do not want to take this.
So so so the the next level down after the next priority is really ethnic minorities.
All right.
Well, because they do have a higher rate because probably because of the lack of vitamin D. Fair enough.
But guess what?
The ethnic minorities don't want to take it.
They're obviously quite tuned in to this information grid.
So they don't want to take it.
So it's going to be a farce.
And we haven't even got into the situation where People attempt to class actions against the drug companies or they can't do against the drug companies, but maybe against the governments which have which have forced these things through because of all the side effects of which there are many, but this is being suppressed at the moment.
We're not hearing well, you know, we see the occasional glimpse on social media, but mostly they're suppressed.
Yeah, but I mean, I just, I just can't believe there wasn't more on the, you know, the fact that you might need a repeat, a repeat vaccine.
As I said, even on their terms, this has just been, this has just been dropped in there conveniently, you know, barely, um, barely mentioned.
So, I mean, quite handy for a drugs company that it requires more than one Yeah.
Oh, every year.
Yeah, every year.
Very, very handy.
Convenient.
You know, it never stops giving, the coronavirus.
So, look, you know, this lockdown is an experiment.
As I said, it's not going to work, probably.
It's completely immoral and completely unethical.
I'm going to go, there's one other point I want to make about that.
And I mean, essentially, yeah, they've terrorised the population for seven days because they know that on current terms, It's going to spread and they're setting it up to blame you.
It's your fault.
And Dave, essentially, yeah, as I said, the psychological attack on the population for the last seven days has just been, I mean, I thought it was bad the first time, but this time it has been unbelievable.
Like, just nothing I've ever seen before.
Can I outline a movie script which has just come to me as we talked?
It's a dystopian 28 Days Later type movie where there's been this fake pandemic which has been talked up by the globalist elite.
And lots of people have been gulled into taking vaccines.
And these vaccines have had terrible side effects and people are really screwed up by them.
And there's a few holdouts, people like us, who refuse to take the vaccine.
And there was this new massive, massive social divide between those who've had the vaccine and are subject to all these kind of horrible ailments.
You know, probably can't breed anymore and stuff.
And there's a minority of people who, because of their bloody-minded right-wing tendencies, you know, i.e.
you and me and the rest, haven't taken these vaccines.
So you've got this kind of political divide being massively exacerbated by the medical divide between those who've had the dodgy vaccine and those who haven't.
I'm not sure how it plays out, but I can imagine the vaccinated ones, despite all the evidence that the vaccine is dangerous, still want to try and capture the free people and force them to take the vaccine so they become part of the kind of the semi-dead.
Well, I think.
But it's too realistic, isn't it?
I mean, it's too close to what's happening.
Well, I think they're really the labelling and the demonising of people who aren't willing to play along with this.
They've ratcheted that up.
I don't know if you've noticed that.
So again, the headline in the Times yesterday was, you know, I don't know, police to terrorise or cut the heads off of.
And the phrase was lockdown refuseniks.
I was like, oh, am I in lockdown?
I'm a now refusenik.
Interesting.
Isn't that from communism?
I would have thought.
So a refusenik presumably is somebody who doesn't want to participate in the comments.
Yeah, so actually it's a compliment.
I'm going to look it up now.
Yeah, yeah, so then you do that one.
And then of course there's been the long-running Covid idiot thing which is, you know, which is obviously another labelling device and people who don't wear masks are basically, you know, kickstone cold-blooded killers.
So that kind of, you know, labelling and the hostility towards people who are not willing to go along with this You know, body and soul, um, is, is going to really increase and it will increase against anybody who doesn't, who doesn't want to get the vaccine.
I mean, they will, they will basically be blamed for, for the fact if the lockdown is extended, it will be their fault.
So there's going to be, you know, things are still going to get worse before they get better.
Um, and while you're doing it, so the thing that really annoys me... I've done it.
I've found it.
Go on.
What does it say?
It's quite interesting, actually.
So, refusenik was the term used in the Soviet Union, particularly towards Russian Jews who wanted to emigrate to Israel, but they weren't allowed to because of their dangerous politics.
So, we are.
That is pretty much what we are.
We're going to be denied freedom to travel, we're going to be denied everything.
So it's interesting that our own media is now appropriating, in a positive way as far as it's concerned, the terminology of the Soviets.
And I've noticed this a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, well, I tell you what annoys me most about these lockdown laws, because although you may think it's because I'm a criminal lawyer, you know, what you should criminalize, criminalizing something is the very last thing the state should do.
OK, there's lots of other things you can do beforehand before you get to criminalizing.
But what they what they're essentially doing is is criminalizing your humanity.
OK, so one of the leads in the mail a few days ago, you know, is you mustn't stop and chat to somebody if you if you see them.
You know, you mustn't stop on a park bench.
And I'm like, this is close to sort of an involuntary act.
It's actually very difficult to not stop and chat to somebody, especially if you're me.
So they're really criminalising, as I said, your basic humanity.
And because you've lost so much, you know, lockdown is such an easy word in a way.
Oh, well, what's your problem?
You're just staying at home.
No, you're not allowed to play sports.
You're not allowed.
Your kids can't get any culture.
Your kids can't see their friends.
You can't see any of your relatives.
You can't see any of your own friends.
You can't go to the pub.
I mean, it encapsulates.
You know, a thousand different human actions that you would normally do, and they've criminalised all of us.
So I said, you know, it's a monstrous burden to put on the population.
A system of laws that can only be obeyed, A, by an incredible amount of self-discipline, and B, will probably generate a huge amount of mental health difficulties.
And a huge amount of mental health illnesses.
These are not ethical laws.
You know, there is such a thing called the rule of law, where you can only set up a law that you basically can obey.
And it would have been one of the reasons against, you know, criminalizing private sexual behavior.
That namely, these laws are nearly impossible to obey and very difficult to enforce.
And this is essentially what you're seeing, seeing with the lockdown.
And so you get this.
A good example is another thing is you can't criminalise an involuntary act.
And there are lots of involuntary acts.
So, you know, obviously, if someone goes to punch you and you either would punch them back or move back an involuntary act, you can't stop yourself from doing it.
So you, as a rule, shouldn't criminalise that kind of action.
But so, you know, they're talking about the footballers and the Premier League who I can give and take.
I have a particular interest in them.
But they're saying, you know, you cannot celebrate.
OK, they haven't quite criminalized it.
I don't know if you saw this.
So at the weekend, some people were celebrating goals, you know, and they were in the changing room and they were all close together.
So the FAA and the government, they're all getting, they're all going mad about this.
And the referees have to tell the captains that all social distancing rules have to be abided by and you mustn't celebrate a goal.
But it must be incredibly difficult not to celebrate a goal, right?
I mean, if you scored a goal at a Premier League level or even at a grassroots level, you must get a huge surge of adrenaline, OK?
And your instinct, your human instinct, by virtue of your humanity, is to go and celebrate it in whatever boneheaded way they celebrate it.
And they're basically saying, no, don't do that.
Yeah, you mark my words.
You can't control it.
Laura, they're going to be banning spit roasting next in clubs.
It's part of a footballer's natural instinct that, you know, when he encounters several groupies, he's got to respond to his natural animal responses.
You can't stop it.
Yeah, exactly.
This is why, when I say it's called neo-communist, it's the same as, you know, the Soviets going into the Ukrainian farmers who are starving and saying, give me your grain.
You know, you're you're you want your own brain because you're going to starve.
This is this is this is part of your humanity.
It really is.
It isn't.
I mean, there's obviously fascist tendencies, but it's closer to communism in enforcing these rules that go against your humanity so much.
You know, that urge to to keep the fruits of your labor, for instance.
OK, so this is Don't underestimate what they're doing here.
As I said, it is monstrous.
It's evil.
And the idea that it's something easy to abide by, it's completely wrong.
You know?
Yeah.
Let me give you a really scary thought, Laura.
You mentioned the Holodomor, or however you pronounce it.
So, yeah, the mass starvation of the peasants in the Ukraine and elsewhere.
And we all know, we all know about the Holocaust and what the Jews went through.
And we all know about these horrible periods of history, the rape of Nanking and the, I don't know, I mean, any number of hideous periods of history, the bubonic plague.
And you think that the period that you and I spent, say, the first 30 years of our life in was a period of abundance and unending sort of improvements in our lifestyle and so on.
But historically we were the exception rather than the rule.
In most periods of history people have lived through oppression and suffering and I'm slightly worried that this is what's happening now, that the curtain's coming down and we're going to be trapped in this This new normal, this great reset, or whatever you want to call it.
We had a good run, as I think the Iris Murdoch wrote in The Children of Men.
It's like, well, yeah, I mean, things are falling apart now, but we had a good run.
I mean, yeah, I can see that.
I mean, materially, obviously, things are still fine, apart from the massive amounts of debt that they don't want you to look at too closely.
Yeah, I look, you know, things are things are serious.
Unfortunately, it seems everybody's going along with it so far.
I don't want to predict too dire consequences because it gets too depressing.
But I mean, no one doesn't want to do that.
But you know, think about what's what's what's the way out and what's interesting about this?
I think, you know, at the beginning, we were talking about I was talking about about the captive mind and about how All these people on our side of the argument, people, even rigorous thinkers, people who you would have thought would be sufficiently robust in their conservatism, not to fall for this arbitrary tyranny that's being imposed on us.
It should send shivers down their spine.
It should trigger all their alert system.
And it hasn't.
And it hasn't.
And it's amazing, that fact.
But you look at people like The free market think tankers who've embraced the government's position.
And you think about all the conservative columnists who seem to have now fallen into line with the government line that the vaccine is going to make everything better.
What we've seen already is that the vaccine, as we discussed, the vaccine isn't making everything better.
It's not making any difference.
People are being vaccinated en masse, but still they're saying you've got to wear a mask, you've still got to isolate and stuff.
So if even the vaccine isn't going to be the way out, what is the way out?
They seem to be not giving us any options.
I mean, it will go down, right, seasonally anyway.
So this is going to tail off in March and April.
And, you know, they may well give us our summer, right?
Oh, but no, I've got to stop you there.
I agree that this is how things would happen normally.
But given that everything is being ripped, given that the PCR tests are running at cycles far in excess of what you'd need to be able to ascertain what's real and what's not real.
Yeah.
Given that this is a kind of case endemic, not a pandemic, given that all this is so, yeah, I agree that it will become endemic and fewer people will die, but it seems to me that they're determined to squeeze every last bit of juice out of this thing in order to keep us scared, in order to keep us...
But look, I do think they're going to start lifting things in spring and summer.
The big question is, are they going to make this?
Because I actually think for once the population will have had enough at that stage.
But the question is, you know, look, if the end goal is just multiple vaccines, then Then they'll lift it in the spring and summer and then they'll basically threaten it in the autumn and people will have to get their booster vaccine or whatever and they'll toddle on.
They might impose a lockdown in August or, you know, autumn or Christmas every year and it seems everybody else will go along with it.
You know, it's difficult to predict what they want or what they need.
It still depends on the consent of the people, which they currently have.
I don't know how long people can continue going on with this self-deception.
It's like you don't know anybody, or very few people have known anybody who has died or is seriously ill from this.
You know, yet people are still going, yeah, yeah, we need a stricter lockdown.
Do you know anybody under the age of 60 who's died?
No.
Do you know anybody over the age of 80 who's died?
No.
Well, then why are you going along with this?
But how long people can keep that up for is questionable.
Sorry, this is a bit of a jump, but I want to know what is going on with the universities, James, because one of yours is in university now.
Two, two.
Right, so we had a blog run yesterday about universities and how bad things were there.
And, you know, at the start of this pandemic, you know, if you're on our side, you think, well, there might be some silver linings, one of which most of, you know, a lot of the universities will go bust because most of them are complete rackets anyway.
Yes, yes.
And you're just thinking, You know, how bad would it have to be?
Now, I realise it was what's called a bait and switch, right?
The university said, come, everything will be fine.
We'll give you close to the university experiences we can get.
And then once they were on campus, that turned into unlawful detention, online lessons constantly and basically being shut up in your room the whole time.
And we're going to put up a couple of fences as well.
And you're thinking, how bad would things have to get for people to say, actually, I'm not going to pay £9,000 to be unlawfully detained in very poor accommodation with police roaming the streets outside and to get virtually zero teaching.
I mean, I just find it baffling.
There's a world of pain.
I just hear dribs and drabs on universities, but one of the big discussions at my kid's university at the moment, lots of petitions from whiny students saying,
We should not be subject to any kind of rigorous exams this year because, you know, this is so traumatic and disruptive that we should all, essentially, we should all be given first because we deserve it, because we've suffered.
And there is apparently a debate within the Russell Group, you know, the Russell Group universities, I think, so far have been holding the line, but they're coming under pressure from the kids to, To basically give everyone prizes.
And you can see why.
The education of university children as school children has been completely debased by this.
We're going to be experiencing the fallout.
Whereas, you said last week, you wouldn't want to be crossing over a bridge designed by an engineer who designed engineering.
You really wouldn't.
Sorry, I'm not going over that bridge.
Okay, so the kids are taking it well at the moment.
In the way that people in their, you know, early 20s, teens, they do.
They just, they accept life.
Well, the boomers wouldn't have.
I mean, the boomers would be burning the place down right now, right?
I mean, that's what they did during their time.
I don't know, I still can't figure out what they were angry about.
But when they were students... Well, there's 68 people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When they were students...
Yeah, the teaching, they decided to, they had free education that would put them straight into the elite, but they didn't like it and they protested anyway.
I mean, there is no way.
You're talking about Peter Hitchens.
Yeah, yeah, there's no way.
Peter Hitchens' generation.
The baby boomers would have put up with this.
So I don't understand why more students aren't protesting.
I mean, I know you say, oh, they're whining.
Look, I have a lot of sympathy for them.
But I just, I find it flabbergasting that people would still send their kids to university on these terms.
Is it because you basically still need a degree for a job?
Well, you've got to think about it from the point of view, so my kids are doing English, so they go into a difficult university with a decent course, they're half or Two thirds of the way through a course and suddenly this thing strikes.
What are they supposed to do?
I mean, there's no jobs for them to go to.
Yeah.
In fact, my son told me this, that there's like 10 of his friends who've left last year.
Some of them got really good degrees and some of them got accomplished internships at top companies and some of them didn't.
But they're all in exactly the same boat.
They've all been furloughed or whatever.
They haven't got anywhere to go.
No, I completely understand if you've started your degree, you basically have to go back.
But I guess I was thinking more of if you were in, you know, you'd finished your A-levels last summer, would you, what would I have done if, if my kids were at that stage?
You know, would I have told them, yeah, go, go and go to university.
It'd probably be okay.
Or would I have said, listen, don't do it.
This is going to be a bad year.
Just defer it or whatever.
Yeah, I sympathise.
Say again?
I'm sure that's what you tell them.
That's the advice I would have given my kids if they're in that position.
Why would you go to university when you can't go to university?
No, but I mean, I think most people said whence though.
I mean, I know a young girl, I used to play tennis with her and she was in that position and she had said, you know, the university gave her loads of assurances and blah, blah, blah.
And she obviously really wanted to go because to stay for her would have been to stagnate, right?
But of course, she didn't want to stay at home.
But of course, she's at home now anyway.
She got last term, which was, you know, essentially, as I said, being unlawfully detained with having online classes.
But now she'll be at home.
They haven't let them back on campus.
Yours aren't on campus, are they?
No, they're not at the moment.
Although I think they might have a go.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Kids in their early 20s, they really don't like being stuck with their parents.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So why would it be difficult to say, look, just don't go.
It's not worth the fare for the year.
I mean, what you would say, I guess, is the fare for the year.
Here, I'll pay for you.
I'll cover your flight to Sweden.
Go.
Work in a bar.
Whatever you want to do.
I'll see you.
I'll see you at Christmas.
Right.
That's the closest you're going to get to it.
I'm not saying I would have done that.
I hope I would have.
But yeah, I'm just wondering.
I just think the universities have been exposed as being such a money making racket, apart from the very top.
I'm just like thinking, how bad would it have to be for people to say, for the middle class as a whole to say, I am not doing it anymore.
I am not putting £30,000 worth of debt either on yourself or even paying, whatever you might do, or on the kids for them to get a degree.
It just goes to show what a filter the degree system is that people still feel they need it to get a job.
I mean, you know, but how it's such a racket, you know, it's such a transfer of income from young people to basically, you know, the academics at university.
It is the blatant transfer of wealth.
Well, I mean, most of Covid is the blatant transfer of wealth from the next, the rising generation to the boomers and the massive bureaucracy and everybody else that's living off this.
Anyway, that was the security services or whoever telling us they didn't like my question about is it planned?
Because it is planned, obviously, we know that.
Well, yeah.
You don't want to go there, do you?
No, I don't.
No, I mean, look, even if it wasn't, you know, people take advantage of things, right?
People, even if something spontaneously happened, they certainly didn't need to go down this route, right?
I mean, they could have gone down an entirely different route until Ferguson came along and said, I mean, there's still a clip out there of Witty on Radio 4 going, we just want to flatten the peak.
We just want to flatten the peak, you know, we don't want to do lockdown, we just want to flatten the peak.
And then this guy, this computer nut comes along and says, you know, we're all going to die.
And then they bounce us into this lockdown.
What I do want to know, and I know it's time for this question, is if, so we're now relying on herd immunity through infection, as well as vaccination.
If they have the first lockdown, Well, it's basically prevented some people from building up immunity to an even more transmissible variant.
Right?
Yes.
So, Mr Lockdown Man, again, on your own terms, could you, could Mr Computer Model, I want to see, predict this, if we had not locked down in spring and November and more people had gotten infected, would, what would be the death rate now of having had immunity to the new super duper super super transmissible?
This is what, this is what both Dr John Lee and I really want to know.
Yeah.
Okay, so there's two things to be said here.
First of all, I think this is Dr. John Lee's argument.
Yes.
And he says that what we're doing by locking everyone away is preventing the mild aversions circulating and making sure that people are concentrated in areas, i.e.
hospitals, where the more extreme form of the disease is.
So instead of having that kind of natural resistance, they're just being whacked in hospital, where a lot of people, nosocomial cases seem to be the most predominant.
And then we've got, Ivor Cummins has talked to a researcher who points out that what What lockdowns do is that they make the most vulnerable section of the populace, i.e.
the kind of people who are housebound and weak and old and so on, it makes them relatively more mobile in as much as the young population, which would be running around partying, raving and stuff and contracting infections and building up herd immunity, are no longer able to do so.
So what it does is it stops the disease becoming endemic among the part of the population which really needs it to become endemic among them so they no longer transmit it, rendering the old people safe.
So yeah, absolutely.
But the thing is, if you try to make sense, if you try to use your understanding of medical science and logic to make sense of government's policy, what you find is that you're tearing your hair out with despair because you're realising that the government and the SAGE are pushing the exact opposite of what needs to be done to deal with this thing.
And that's where you end up eventually, like me, you end up becoming It's so crazy.
It's so out there.
This isn't just negligence or a mistake, but to do what they're doing is so insane, even on their own terms.
I get it.
You'd only do it for a very specific reason.
I'm just thinking, like, other kind of blue sky things.
What's going to happen to the kids now who've been deprived of circulating, right, amongst their own children and in schools and picking up, obviously, the various bugs?
I mean, next winter, I would imagine there'll be kids, you know, a lot of kids will probably get very sick.
I mean, they'll be fine.
But there's got to be a gloss, right, because they're not mixing as they normally would be.
They're not outside.
They're not playing.
They're not doing exercise.
Laura, that's an interesting point you make.
It's crazy.
I remember when my kids were very small, and you've had this experience more recently than I have, but I remember that children are like, did you see it?
They're like petri dishes for every diseased goat.
They are just verminous pests.
They've got, I mean, I quite like, I quite like head lice because I quite like delousing children.
That's quite fun.
It's a good sport.
I know, it's quite a very significant bonding experience.
You really forget it.
I had to do it a year ago.
I remember when my kids got their last head lice.
I felt rather sad.
But I do remember that the number of diseases that they bring back, and you end up being ill all the time, whereas for them it's just their immune system in training.
So what's going to happen now that they don't have this early immune system developed?
Yeah.
Disaster waiting to happen.
The big question is, oh, they said they still haven't resolved the allergy vaccine question.
Remember how they said if you've got an allergy, you shouldn't take a vaccine?
What's happening with that?
Because a lot of people have allergies, right?
Did you say the thing about the peanuts?
Somebody did a very good thing about peanuts.
OK, so as you know, peanut allergy and children having anaphylactic shocks and stuff became a thing.
Uh, whereas before, you know, when we were growing up, certainly no one, no one had warnings before they went, they had a children's party where peanut butter sandwiches were, that was normal.
Anyway, so they did this, um, experiment and whereby some children were kept completely away from peanuts of all kinds.
Yes.
And other children were just kind of given… I know, exposed to it a little bit, yeah.
Exposed to it.
And guess what happened?
You'll never guess.
Actually, it's so bloody… Yeah, no, they say, of course, built up an immunity to it.
Yes, yes, whereas children who'd been… Yeah.
Well, I mean, again... I think we've got heaps of trouble coming.
Yeah, I mean, the big question, of course, is why do so many kids have allergies?
Luckily, I mean, I can be a bit Darwinist if none of my kids have allergies, mainly because I don't have the patience for it, so... You beat the allergies out of them, don't you?
Yeah, I just... I mean, of course, I am afraid to say I'm a complete, like, breastfeeding fanatic as well.
I just think they... Do you make them with dirt as well?
Well, I mean, a little bit.
Yeah.
But again, because the breastfeeding rates are so low, I mean, it's not good for immunity.
I don't like when people say very small children, like one or two year olds, people use it as an argument for nurseries for that age, which I don't like.
Oh, they'll build up their immunity.
No, they don't.
But certainly from three upwards, You know, they should be mixing and they do build up immunities and things like that.
I don't know.
I mean, who knows?
Who knows what will happen to them?
As I said, the lack of sport is very bad.
You don't see as many kids out these days as you did in the first lockdown.
Now, maybe because the online teaching is better, but like the first lockdown back in March, obviously because the weather is so good, you notice the boomers aren't so happy now because they can't just garden their way through this lockdown.
So, uh, oh, we've lost you again.
You've paused.
No, we haven't.
Yeah.
Well, you don't see as many kids out now cycling and scooting and all that stuff, although they have left the playgrounds, um, you know, open.
So we should be grateful for that.
Uh, but yeah, I mean, I look, I don't, and also I haven't heard anybody being sick over Christmas.
Like, again, for the last 10 years, my main aim in life will be not to be sick over Christmas, because I had been sick over Christmas frequently.
And my husband as well was under very strict orders, Laura is.
Children aren't allowed allergies.
I just said, if you get sick over Christmas, like you have before, you're in big trouble.
But nobody's been sick because no one's been out.
So I reckon the flu season next year is going to be is going to be bad, but probably they'll put it all down to Covid.
They're going to have to develop a vaccine for that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
So I don't I don't know anybody who's been sick.
I don't know anybody who's had a cough because, you know, again, you would have had this, you know, the freshers cough when they first go to university.
And if you're in any of these lecture halls or debating societies, which I spent a lot of my time in, the whole hall is coughing their lungs out.
But yes, no, I mean, Freshers' Week is just like the worst, isn't it?
They're all completely burned out.
Well, they're all photographers.
Yeah, they're all, you know, there is there is disgusting photographers as students.
So, look, I mean, they're all vegan now, of course, which is also a problem.
That's going to screw you up.
Everything connects.
The failure of higher education, the fact that you can go to university now and emerge more stupid than when you went in.
that the fact that that you can go to university now and emerge more stupid than you then when you went in the failure of the the promotion of of veganism as a kind of as a desirable goal All these things that the American elections everything connects one Once you realise that, once you become like me, you're a hedgehog who knows one big thing, you start getting it.
You become like a kind of like David Icke, but maybe less turquoise.
Yeah.
Whenever I say turquoise, I get picked up by people because I used to say turquoise because I come from the Midlands and we say turquoise.
But then I married a posh wife who pronounces it turquoise.
I'm no longer sure what the correct, what the sort of normal Value-judgment-free, piss-taking, not-get-you-know-got version is.
How do you say it?
Turquoise.
That's not even in the game.
Don't slag my accent off, man, because that will not go down well.
People can discuss this.
I think I heard coffee being... Oh, yeah.
So I'm going to... I think it's time.
I think we've given out.
Yeah, we'll go.
But I'll tell you what we will end on.
Sir Roger Scrooge, it was his year anniversary yesterday, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He died.
He died a year.
You knew Sir Roger well, didn't you?
I had a really good podcast with him.
I remember that.
We sort of knew each other and it was great.
And it was like, do you know what?
It was the best thing about it.
It was about an hour and a half and it was like a tutorial with a really good Dom that you really admire.
And at the end he said something to me which sort of indicated, it was like, you know, you're not incredibly stupid and my time wasn't wasted.
I mean he didn't say that, he obviously said it much nicer, but that was the vibe I got and it felt so good to be worthy of him.
I felt worthy of him and that was nice.
Yeah.
No, I met him, I met him a few times and he was, he was really nice.
One of the last times I met him, it was like, uh, I actually said to him, I was like, so Roger, I went to bed with you last night.
And he's like, what?
I'm like, yeah, I read you on my Kindle.
Um, but so he enjoyed that.
Yeah, of course.
Of course.
That's when we used to be able to meet people in person.
He was, he was lovely.
But, um, he, uh, you know, I say, I say to Cathy now and again, you know, I'm just glad he wasn't here to see this in a way because It would have been too sad.
Well, I envy all my dead friends that.
But at the same time, I think, well, Christopher Booker would have had a fantastic time.
I mean, he'd have been furious and it would have definitely tested his faith.
He'd have had to be going to church a lot more, I think, to try and deal with it.
But he'd have found it very interesting.
So he's missed out.
I mean, we do live in interesting times, as the Chinese Coast has it.
No, I mean, that's true.
That's true.
As you say, with the last quote from Lord of the Rings, you said, you know, you have to decide what you want to do with the time during this particular battle.
I know it's true, but it's...
It's hard to fight the hysteria, man.
I'll be honest with you.
I'd rather live on on Liberty's stroke smack island where basically you spend your whole day on heroin.
Doing a bit of light scuba diving, smoking weed or whatever, just completely out of it.
The problem is, I'm not even sure there's even going to be space for that.
I don't see how you're going to be able to finance this, this sybaritic lifestyle where you're going to be that sufficiently free to have any autonomy over your life anymore.
That's what bothers me.
So we've just got to fight because there's nothing else to do.
Yeah, well, it's not just that.
I mean, I do, I do think actually, The suicide numbers aren't very clear, but I certainly think they're pushing people to despair.
You know, we will.
We shouldn't really end on this.
You know, so in terms of taking drugs and taking alcohol and committing suicide, this, again, is what makes it demonic to me that they're pushing people to despair and they're getting people to finish themselves off, which is particularly evil, because in Catholic theology, that will get you straight to hell.
But so there's a you know, there are dark forces at work here.
And I think pushing the spare on the population.
They don't seem to care how much mental health damage they cause.
We have an anonymous mom blog on today about how difficult it's been for her child.
Like really, really upsetting to read.
I mean, it's terrible what they're doing.
Terrible.
You must.
Yeah, we have to fight it as best we can.
Yeah.
Well, Laura, thank you for our chinwag.
Always a pleasure.
And I'm sure that, yet again, we'll be offering a lifeline to all our listeners.
And know that you're not alone.
There are people like me and Laura.
I feel just as strongly as you do.
And we're going to get through this.
We're going to be big and brave.
And if nothing else, we're going to find each other and we're going to give each other support.
Yeah.
And then we're going to break out.
We're going to break out of Bastogne and we're going to take the fight to the enemy.